They hate pregnancy centers
By Valerie Jane
It is ridiculous the campaigns that the pro-choice side is doing to stop crisis pregnancy centers. I hear how horrible we are. How we mistreat women. We are told how we commit harassment, criminal confinement, verbal and mental abuse, and intimidation. We see the anonymous statements from these poor and weak women who didn’t know how horrible the pro-life side was. No proof is provided. No court cases cited….
In the pro-choice propaganda I have never seen proof. The only lawsuits that have been against CPC’s are for state regulation of how they advertise and what they say to women (from NAF website.) No law suits concerning the kidnapping and maltreatment we do. No lawsuits about the harassment. Isn’t that interesting? We only hear about the women who went to a CPC to get an abortion but then were held against their will and forced to look at pictures and listen to prayers. We hear how horrible we are because we don’t tell them that abortion is an option. Wait, didn’t they go there to get an abortion? And now that we have kidnapped them they no longer know what abortion is?
What is a crisis pregnancy center? Why don’t we check out one in Bloomington, IN They have pregnancy testing and counseling. They have free parenting classes. They have the Hannah House Maternity Home where pregnant women who need extra help can stay before and after their baby is born. They *gasp* teach abstinence with access to peer support. They give free baby supplies to mothers. They help with after-abortion counseling. Here is one of their promises:
“You will receive accurate information about pregnancy, fetal development, life-style issues, and related concerns. The pregnancy center does not provide abortion or referrals for abortion, but we are committed to offering accurate information about abortion procedures and risks”
These people must be horrible! They teach abstinence and don’t do abortions. Let’s shut them down.
Go here and here so you can see for yourself just how horrible it all is.
(Thanks Jill for letting me be a Guest Blogger this week!)
[photos courtesy: Christine Sullivan
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Something I found interesting….
What pro-choicers say about pregnancy centers is what pro-lifers say about Planned Parenthood.
Now you get how we feel when you bash PP like there’s no tomorrow.
For half of the people who go into Planned arenthood, there is no tomorrow. Literally.
Yeah, yeah. Heard it all before.
Has anybody here read The Giver?
Does anybody know the ratio of pregnancy crisis centers to planned parenthoods? I’m rather curious because I have never seen either in Toronto.
In some places PP doesn’t offer abortion services. they certainly don’t in the Tulsa area.
Challenge to all pro-aborts:
Fr. Frank Pavone from the group Priests For Life is currently on the radio show “Catholic Answers” and he is taking phone calls from everybody. Fr. Pavone is commonly considered the leader of the pro-life movement in America.
He’s on 910 AM here in Dallas/Fort Worth or find a local link at http://www.catholic.org
He will be on until 7:00 pm Central.
And the challenge would be what exactly?
The real irony of this Valerie is that it was abortion advocates who were challenging pro-lifers to do something for pregnant women. Sure you’re against abortion, but what do you do to help women in crisis pregnancies besides talk?
Fair enough. CPC’s began opening up. I would think truly pro-choice people would wholeheartedly support CPCs, even open a few of their own or make donations to the existing ones. What better way to truly give women choices?
I have also volunteered in these centers. The only way I could ever think of forcing a woman to stay is to bind and gag her, seal the door, or threaten her with a lethal weapon. Do we know of any such cases being reported to the police? An uninterested client was free to get up and leave any time, or to simply never call us back. Clients could also refuse to give any information about themselves such as addresses, phone numbers, last names, etc., which would certainly have made “harassment” extremely difficult. In fact, harassment of any kind was expressly forbidden. Client confidentiality was of the utmost imporance and we only called the client’s home with her permission. We also made arrangements for doctor appts., emergency shelter, and maternity and infant clothing distribution.
I’m not against them, I just hope theres an equal amount of accessable PP’s in the same area.
Well Kim,
Does anybody know the ratio of pregnancy crisis centers to planned parenthoods? I’m rather curious because I have never seen either in Toronto.
I’m not against them, I just hope theres an equal amount of accessable PP’s in the same area.
It looks like you got your wish. Planned Parenthoods in your are – zero. Crisis Pregnancy Centers in your area – zero.
See, same about of both.
mk
One baby in 30 left alive after medical termination
20.04.07
Add your view
Gianna Jessen
Gianna Jessen: Born after a failed abortion
One in 30 babies aborted for medical reasons is born alive, a study has found.
They lived for an average of 80 minutes – although in some cases foetuses survived for over six hours.
Most of the babies were born between 20 and 24 weeks of pregnancy, but some had been in the womb for as little as 17 weeks.
The figures, based on a study of West Midlands hospitals, has reignited the abortion debate, with pro-life campaigners demanding the time limit for terminations be cut.
Researchers looked at the outcome of 3,189 abortions performed on seriously handicapped foetuses at 20 hospitals between 1995 and 2004.
It showed that 102 – or around one in 30 – aborted for reasons such as Down’s Syndrome and heart defects, were born alive.
Abortions are allowed to be carried out if the pregnancy is shown to have an adverse effect on the mental health and wellbeing of the mother up until the 24th week of pregnancy.
Beyond this point, the procedure is only sanctioned if the baby has a severe disability or if the mother’s life is at risk.
The latest study, carried out by experts from the West Midlands Perinatal Institute and published in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, showed that three per cent of aborted disabled babies were born alive.
Most of the abortions studied were medical abortions. These involve a women being given a series of pills, taken in two doses two days apart.
The first dose, a single tablet of mifepristone, blocks the pregnancy hormones that normally ensure the womb’s lining holds on to the fertilised egg. The second dose, of four tablets containing hormone-like prostaglandins, triggers contractions and a miscarriage.
The death of the baby is a result of the trauma of the early birth, rather than the tablets itself, meaning, in rare occasions, some babies may survive the process.
From 22 weeks, the tablets should be preceded by a lethal injection into the baby’s heart to ensure the baby is dead before the procedure goes any further.
If these babies are born alive, it suggests they weren’t given the heart-stopping injection – perhaps because the doctor thought it would have been too traumatic for the mother. The figures follow several studies which show that babies born at 23 and 24 weeks are capable of surviving.
While there is no suggestion that any of the babies documented in the West Midlands study lived for more than a few hours, doctors in Norwich are currently treating a toddler born at 24 weeks after three botched terminations.
He was born three years ago and is still alive.
Campaigners said it was likely the Midlands figures were just the tip of the iceberg as the region only accounts for around a tenth of the babies born in the country each year.
In addition, the study only looked at babies whose lives were ended because of disability.
However, most abortions are carried out on ‘healthy’ babies for social reasons. Julia Millington of the pro-life group Alive and Kicking said: “This can’t just be happening in the West Midlands.
“It begs the question of how many healthy babies must be surviving? It would suggest the true figure must be much higher.
“With live births after abortion occurring in 18 out of the 20 maternity units in the West Midlands alone, it is difficult to comprehend the numbers of babies around the country left fighting for their lives.”
Babies born alive after abortion are entitled to medical care. However, anti-abortion campaigners claim that some are so unwanted, they are simply left to die.
The Department of Health said that key medical associations agreed that the time limit for abortion did not need to be changed.
I’m happy CPC’s exist.
So nobody’s read The Giver?
PiP,
I don’t think I have…tell me something about it.
mk
Promiscuous sexuality and lack of ideals of romantic love can be seen through dystopian cultures,
Family life is portrayed as conflicting and nonexistent, to the point of deliberately engineered break-down of family ties, as in 1984, where children are organized to spy on their parents.
A common theme in dystopian works is a critique of religion, or the practice thereof. An idea that commonly comes under fire by dystopian writers is that of blind faith, or people participating in a religion without fully (or even partially) understanding it.
It’s pretty interesting. It’s like a low-key version of Brave New World.
Everything is the same–meals are delivered to the houses, people in charge choose professions, partners, and families for the citizens. Everybody is happy. But not happy in the true sense of the word because love is suppressed as an emotion (they take pills at puberty to suppress it). There are people whose job it is to be a mother, so a group of females are responsible for the children of the town. Families never have babies on their own. There is more to the storyline but I’ll let you read it–it is a short novel.
This was one of the first books I’ve read that have made me less prochoice, because there was a scene in it where the protagonist’s dad worked with these babies and there was a troublesome one that he took home and thought he could fix. Jonas, the protagonist, realized that the baby was special, like him. He learns that these troublesome children are not taken back to the center, like he thought, but euthanized and disposed.
You should read it. It’s a young adult book… Lois Lowry, the author of Number the Stars (a book about the holocaust). Check it out.
Stephanie,
A Crisis Pregnancy Center recognizes the fact that a pregnancy has caused a crises in a women’s life and assists her into turning that crisis into a blessing. It’s name honestly reflects what it does.
Planned Parenthood also recognizes that a women is in a a crisis due to a pregnancy and offers the solution to the crisis; killing her baby. The name has nothing to do with parenthood and everything to do with creating a mother with a dead child and all the lifelong trauma associated with it.
Why can’t PP just be honest and call themselves what they really are; Parental Termination Centers. What are they afraid of?
PIP,
The comments I wrote about Dystopia right before your post were from Wikipedia when I looked up the book…
It sounds good, although I don’t really care for science fiction…but I’ll read anything if it’s done well. Short helps too.
Thanks for the tip!
mk
His Man: They are called “Planned Parenthood” because they don’t only offer abortions. There are several Planned Parenthoods that only offer non-abortion services such as low-cost gynecological exams and low-cost PRE-NATAL exams. They also help people PLAN on how to prevent pregnancy so they can choose when they become parents (by offering low-cost birth control and free condoms).
But hey, you don’t believe me anyway.
Rae,
That’s a ruse for the purpose of supporting their main function, abortion.
They wouldn’t be able to get medical malpractice insurance if they didn’t do all the other stuff.
You gonna tell me they deliver babies in those deathatoriums too? Why not? Now that would be the ultimate oxymoron in real life.
I can see the signs at the PP entrances:
Door No. 1 – Kill Your Fetus
Door No. 2 – Deliver Your Baby
Can’t you understand that aborion is evil and everything associated with it?
Primary care declines
Primary care clients decreased 26.3 percent from 27,320 in 1998 to 20,136 in 1999. This is well below the 24,064 PP reported in 1997, the first year they started to track such clients. Ryan Report readers may remember that a few years ago PP announced a major effort to get into the primary care business. This year’s report certainly indicates that that project has suffered a significant setback. It seems that true health care is not a forte for this death dealing organization.
No His Man, I highly doubt you’ve ever been to a Planned Parenthood, and I’m willing to wager that they don’t have two idiotic doors like that. It’s not a ruse, they do it to HELP people. As I said…not all Planned Parenthoods offer abortion.
No, I’m pretty sure you’re not stupid enough to think they deliver babies there, because they don’t…they do that at hospitals.
So no, I don’t see abortion as evil and I don’t see an association between abortions and low-cost reproductive care…but then again, I’m not a delusional old fool.
Rae,
Apparently you are too young and deceived to understand ironic humor.
Guess that means you’re also not responsible for your views?
And Rae, I’m probably in better shape than you’d ever hope to be and I understand the difference between delusional and knowledgeable.
Hey, any young deluded pro-lifers out there?
Um, not really. I understand ironic humor. But what you were saying wasn’t funny. It was stupid.
I am completely responsible for my views, my parents had nothing to do with what I believe as they are about as apathetic about abortion and politics and general as two people can get.
Oh and I’m sure you can tell the difference between delusional and knowledgeable…at least I’m not the one who believes in a book of Fairy Tales and a nonexistent “God”.
The challenge was to see if anyone would actually listen to him…
No takers so far.
Don’t have a radio at the dorm.
Too bad.
He’s great. Very articulate and one of the best preachers I have ever heard. Shake your very soul..
Wouldn’t matter. Not Catholic. Not religious. Don’t believe in that stuff. It wouldn’t shake my soul as I don’t really believe in souls.
Anyway.
Off the top of my head, there are less than 800 abortion mills in the United States. This includes the Planned Parenthoods mills.
There are more than 3000 CPC’s around the U.S. with more starting every day. There are about a dozen or so around Dallas and I know of at least 2 more that are in the planning stages here.
In Dallas we have 6 mills open including one PP. 15 years ago there were 12 or more that we knew of and it looks like at least 2 of the ones open now will shut down hopefully in the next year or so.
There are individual obgyn’s that do abortions but they are much harder to track.
And although this is very difficult to prove, we hear from a lot of hispanic women that back-alley illegal abortions are still taking place. Very sad.
Andrew, I live in Dallas, and I’d like proof of that. I know that Dallas has one Planned Parenthood that will preform abortions, but I don’t know of the rest.
Rae,
I now understand why you are who you are.
It’s genetic thing, right?
Please don’t tell me you’re gay too.
“Please don’t tell me you’re gay too.”
Oh that’s nice His Man. Real nice.
But no, I’m not. But wouldn’t it just be a slap in the face of the Lord if I were?
Hisman-
PP is a vital resource. I have been there several times and I can assure you that it has never been to obtain an abortion. It is not only for sexually active young women, but for women who need reproductive medical help in any way. I was aware that they performed abortions but of all the times I have been there, I have never seen them providing that particular service. The employees there are knowlegable and helpful. I just wish that you would not speak ill of a organization which has done great things in my life and many others.
Peace. Erin
Gay bashing? Hisman how terrible of you, that’s not very Christian.
Less, proof of what? I don’t have any proof of the back-alley abortions, that’s just word of mouth. We are trying to prove it so that we can expose it.
I think there are about a dozen or so storefront PP’s that do not provide abortions.
The only PP that does abortions is off Greenville.
I do agree that Planned Parenthood does do some good stuff. I had to go to one. Of course, I had to go to them because they used scare tactics and expensive lawyers to get rid of the other Woman’s health center.
However, I know that there are alot of PP here in Indiana that do not do abortions. But the money does get filtered into the abortion ones.
Question: If PP wasn’t an abortion mill then why do they care about CPC’s? To me that’s really odd. CPC’s do what PP doesn’t. They provide housing, counsling, classes, goods for the baby, vouchers at retail shops, rides to and from Dr appt’s. This is stuff that PP doesn’t do. So why then are they always after the CPC’s? If they are not an abortion mill then why do they care if CPC’s do NOT offer abortion? Could it be because they want women to have abortions? Could that be it? Because how much money do they get if a woman chooses to keep her child. Sure, they have pre-natal care, but at a discount.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-articles-press/politics-policy-issues/abortion-access/pregnancy-centers-6174.htm
Everything they talk about is how CPC’s talk women out of abortions. Nothing about what kind of good they do.
Why, if abortion isn’t their biggest concern, do they go through all this to stop the CPC’s?
That’s awesome that CPCs provide those services. HOwever, women may not need those reasources and instead may need those offered by planned parenthood (yes, I am speaking of abortions, but also others). And they do not “rake in the cash” when it comes to abortion. All of their services are provided at a pretty decent discount.
And I do not think that anyone desires to perform abortions. They hope to prevent unwanted pregnany in the first place.
Andrew, proof of the numbers you listed for abortion providers.
List of PP Clinics in North Texas
Only the bottom two provide abortions. As far as I’m aware, these are the only abortion providers in North Texas.
Here are the other 5 mills in Dallas:
Aarons – http://www.awhc.net/
Robinson’s – http://www.abortionadvantage.com/index.html
Northpark – http://www.abortion.com/abortion_clinic.php?clinic=Northpark+Medical+Group&city=Dallas&state=Texas
Routh St Mill – http://www.routhstreet.com/
Fairmount – http://www.fairmountcenter.com/
For information on how many mills there are in America, click here:
http://lifedynamics.com/Prolife/
Then click on “statistics on abortion clinics”
Wow, thanks Andrew. I had no idea that there were more in Dallas. I’d done research, but obviously wasn’t searching in the right places.
Rae,
The slapping already took place at Calvary never to happen again.
The point is, will you receive the grace offered as a result of Him taking that slap for you?
Valerie, there is definitely a bias towards having abortions performed when Planned Parenthood is involved in public policy.
Abortion and contraception are the money-makers for PP and the more these things are out there, the more money they make. Follow the money.
Any bill (or organization) that would lower the numbers of abortions actually performed is vigorously opposed while anything that would increase the numbers of abortions (loosening consent laws, approval of Plan B etc..) is trumpeted as the ultimate in women’s reproductive health.
Andrew:
If it weren’t tragic, it would be laughable:
abortionadvantage?
lifedynamicss?
My sides are splitting and eyes tearing at the same time.
The deceit is beyond comprehension.
Andrew, Guttmacher’s latest statistics indicate that PlanB was responsible for 43% of the latest abortion decrease, actually.
hey, I saw book recommendations going on with the Giver (REALLY good, though slightly disturbing, read it in English in 7th grade and later bough it, along with its companion Gather Blue, another great book) So I thought Id throw on in that I think you all may be interested in.
Its called Religious Literacy and it talks about the misunderstandings of all sides involved with religion, those involved within religion or not so involved. It also talks about how people today know very little about religion in general, including their own. Im not even half way in and already think its amazing. Its odd because a lot of the time it seems like hes switching between conservative and liberal viewpoints, but its interesting nonetheless.
It also examines how and why America has become “religiously illiterate” as he puts it, and it is not because of the “dirty liberals” taking prayer and God out of schools, but various factors, including misinterpretation of court rulings.
But yes, end of my little book plug, but it is fairly well written (at least so far) and the author, I think, is the head of the theology department at Boston University, give it a shot, its really interesting.
HisMan,
Deceit or ignorance, I can never tell. Both have similiar outward characteristics and both achieve the same effect.
Charity, I think, would demand that we assume ignorance on the part of the one approving sinful actions until proven otherwise.
Ignorance can be rectified through education and a steady witness of the Faith.
Deceit is another matter and requires a different tact..
His Man:
Why should I receive grace for something that somebody else did? That’s not terribly fair.
Sorry, this is not letting me post for some reason…
Less, two major studies released recently have indicated that Plan B actually does nothing to lower the rate of abortions:
Exhibit A: http://www.lifenews.com/nat2848.html” – “The authors note that no study has shown that increased access to this method reduces unintended pregnancy or abortion rates on a population level and that the consistency of their primary findings is hard to ignore.”
Exhibit B: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/53920.html – “… found that emergency contraception use was higher among women given an advance supply of the birth-control pills but that increase in use did not translate to a drop in the pregnancy rate.”
Rae,
You are without sin?
His Man:
Of course not. But how can I accept the grace of somebody else that somebody else died to receive? That’s just a big cop-out to me.
Blargh…that should read:
But how can I accept grace from somebody who died to receive it.
Andrew, both of those sites are blatently biased, for one.
The first article does not provide access to the study. Upon searching, I found it (link at end): the study had done NO primary researched, instead it had relied upon previous studies for all of it’s data: unnacceptable. Further, the conclusion of the study stated:
Increased access to emergency contraceptive pills enhances use but has not been shown to reduce unintended pregnancy rates. Further research is needed to explain this finding and to define the best ways to use emergency contraception to produce a public health benefit.
It does not reduce unintended pregnancy rates, but it says NOTHING about abortion.
The second article, likewise, shows no link to any studies. It also states that planB
did not translate to a drop in the pregnancy rate.
Again, it shows no correlation between PlanB and abortion. Of course, the study also says that Plan B is a brand of emergency contraception pills that must begin within five days after unprotected sex: this is completely incorrect. PlanB must be taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex. As this article made such a blatent mistake, I’d not base my information on them again.
Bugger, I forgot to post the second link:
Here
Read that first one again Less:
The authors note that “no study has shown that increased access to this method reduces unintended pregnancy or abortion rates on a population level and that the consistency of their primary findings is hard to ignore.”
That is a quote from the authors of the study, who, by the way, are supporters of Plan B.
So now are you accusing Earthtimes of being pro-life?
Think about the second one: If it does not reduce unintended pregnancy rates, then in what way will it reduce abortion?
Dan, the interesting thing that The Giver has brought to my attention is the thought of convenience.
Those that will be a burden on their utopian society is killed regardless of potential (hence the planned “release” of Gabe). It helped me think, abortion should not be chosen because of the convenience of avaoidance of responsibility on behalf of the mother, but for very valid reasons that both PP and CPCs strive to prevent. Both are equal goals and both are valid, in my opinion, especially htose PPs who don’t offer abortion services.
Father Frank Pavone would subject women to unnecessary surgeries.
The following is from his web site: http://www.priestsforlife.org/questions.html
“Question 6: I am an oncology nurse and was asked to give methotrexate for an ectopic pregnancy on another floor since only oncology nurses can give chemotherapeutic drugs. I believe the pregnancy was tubal…. Could you please explain the morality of this act according to the church’s teaching. I do not think the mother’s life was in danger at this particular time. Thanks and God bless you. P.S. I work at a catholic hospital
Answer: There is more than one medical way of handling an ectopic pregnancy. The relevant moral question is whether the method or action is in fact a killing of the child. If so, that is a direct abortion, which is never permissible for any reason. “Direct means that the destruction of the child is willed as the end or the means to another end. Sometimes ectopic pregnancies are handled this way, killing the child but leaving the tube intact. Such an action is morally wrong.
However, if what is done is that the damaged portion of the tube is removed because of the threat it poses to the mother, that is not a direct abortion, even if the child dies. What is done is the same thing that would be done if the tube were damaged from some other cause. The mother is not saved by the death of the child but by the removal of the tube. Because the death of the child in this case is a side effect which is not intended, and because the saving of the mother’s life is not brought about by the death of the child, such a removal of the damaged portion of the tube is morally permissible. ”
There you have it: Father Frank Pavone, if he were in charge, would deny women with tubal pregnancies methotrexate and force them to undergo surgery instead.
Just another reason why right-to-lifers should never be in charge of medical matters.
SONG,
Oh of course not SOMG! Who in their right mind would want somebody that wants to save their life at all costs making medical decisions for them?
Crazy talk.
I’d much rather have someone who honors death making my medical decisions for me.
Cuz I’m completely nuts!
mk
So then MK, would you support forcing women with tubal pregnancies to undergo surgery (as Father Pavone would) rather than methotrexate?
Diana,
If I go sky diving, I have to sign a waiver that says I understand that no matter how man precautions I take, it is still possible that something will go wrong and I will end up dead.
I am not jumping from a plane in order to die. I am however forced to admit that if I choose to jump then the possibility of not making it out alive exists.
So, fine, I am not consenting to die, but I AM consenting to the possibility that I might.
My intent is not death, but it is a very real possibility that this will be the result.
Likewise, when I engage in sex, my intent may not be pregnancy, but unless I am a complete fool, I recognize that the possibility of becoming pregnant exists.
No, I am not directly consenting to becoming pregnant, but I am, by virtue of the sexual union, consenting to the possibility of becoming pregnant. NO MATTER HOW MANY PRECAUTIONS I MAY TAKE.
If I don’t want to die in a parachuting accident, then I should not jump from a plane. Unless I am willing to accept the fact that the possibility, no matter how small, exists that I might die, I should stay on the ground.
If I don’t want to get pregnant from having sex, then I should keep my clothes on. Unless I am willing to accept the fact that the possibility, not matter how small, exists that I might in fact, become pregnant, then I should refrain from sexual intercourse.
This is called taking responsibility for ones actions.
Also,
If I am speeding, by my own choice, and I kill a person, chances are I will spend some time in jail, and my Personal Autonomy will be seriously compromised.
Lastly, what kind of a person puts their own autonomy over that of an innocent bystander. Willfully and maliciously hurting or killing another person, because it is better for them?
Not whether or not the law this is a “right”, but whether or not this is right,
should be the question you are asking.
I feel that we have argued our case to a perfectly acceptable conclusion, and just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean we haven’t done so. I’m satisfied, and I don’t believe anything I say or do will satisfy you.
What else is there to say?
MK
SOMG,
I work in a Catholic hospital and have for years. I’ve seen many a tubal pregnancy. These days the fetus can be surgically removed and the tube left intact, so that blows the argument about removing a damaged tube. In fact, I see every effort made to leave an intact tube. Also, there are no religious or ethical qualms about this. Immediate surgery is indicated when the diagnosis is made and is performed. I think Fr. Pavone’s position is that yes the fetus is killed and this itself is morally wrong, but the intention was to save the life of the woman, not to just dispose of an inconvenient fetus. He just tends to be a little more long winded than I would be.
The use of methotrexate is certainly news to me, but then so are a lot of things. I will ask some of our OB/GYNs about this. I have never heard of it, much less seen it done. Tubal pregnancies are imbedded in the tube and as far as I know must be surgically removed.
SOMG,
Another concern I would have. Shouldn’t the OB/GYN be performing this procedure, or at least know how to? Shouldn’t he/she be trained in the use of methotrexate and administer it him/herself instead of calling a nurse down to do it?
Mary, you might also check out
http://www.advancedfertility.com/ectopic.htm
for info on methotrexate for tubal pregnancy.
Here, I’ll quote:
Medical therapy: Methotrexate
First tubal pregnancy treated and reported was in 1985.
Methotrexate inhibits rapidly growing cells such as a pregnancy or some cancer cells.
Most side effects seen with low-dose MTX therapy have been mild and transient.
Selection criteria for methotrexate:
1. Hemodynamically stable
2. No evidence of tubal rupture or significant intra-abdominal hemorrhage
3. Tube
Rae,
You admit you are a sinner and are therefore in God eyes subject to separation from God, i.e., hell.
Since God loved you and loves you and is not wanting you to perish, He sent His Son to die for you on the cross by the shedding of His innocent blood.
For without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness of sin.
Since our blood is tainted by sin, the only blood that is acceptable to God as atonement for your sin is the blood of Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God.
If you reject his offer of grace there is simply no other method by which you can be forgiven of your sins. Please read chapter 10 of Hebrews.
And this goes for me, for you and everyone ever born.
I really hope and pray you will stop being so hard hearted and accept this amazing grace and not throw it away.
May God bless you as you find Him.
Rae, Planned Parenthood most certainly does NOT offer prenatal exams. I was told explecitly that their “prenatal care” began and ended with a pregnancy test.
Lauren,
You brought up an interesting point. I went to the planned parenthood of greater Indiana to see about pre-natal care. They REFER for pre-natal.
This is a section of their list of services.
“All of our health centers provide pelvic exams, Pap tests, breast cancer screenings, and walk-in pregnancy testing (fees for pregnancy testing vary, depending on the type of funding available at that health center). Our staff is also trained to educate you about options for those patients who are unsure of their decision concerning pregnancy. Information and referrals for adoption, prenatal care, and counseling are available, as well as abortion information and referral. ”
http://www.ppin.org/gynecological.aspx
This is something to check out. I always thought they did pre-natal. So, they do female ‘check-up’ exams, give out birth control, some clinics do colposcopy and cryotherapy screenings, and some do LEEP treatment. oh – and some do abortions.
Why can’t they do pre-natal then? That’s really weird.
This bothers me too. On their national website http://www.plannedparenthood.org they have a list of services:
“Planned Parenthood health centers offer high-quality sexual and reproductive health care, including family planning, gynecological care, STI/STD testing and treatment, pregnancy testing, and abortion services. ”
and their list of Health information:
“Birth Control
Emergency Contraception
Abortion
Pregnancy
STIs/STDs
GYN Exams
Teens
Sexuality ”
Now, if you go in their pregnancy section, they have a whole slew of information on pregnancy. A bunch of information on parenting and very limited information on adoption. You think they could have something, like maybe the national adoption organization website or something….
I really have to stop looking through their website..
Get this:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/being-a-parent/if-and-when-to-have-a-child-.htm
Look at the reality checks on both sections.
I would like to know if anyone has opinions on this….
Valerie, it seems reasonable to me? I’ve heard that PP can also refer you to councelars specializing in prenatal mental health, and councelors that’ll help you figure out how to be a good parent.
His Man: I only said I sin because that’s what fits into your paradigm. I actually don’t believe in the concept of sin. Sure, I do and say things that I probably shouldn’t, but I realize that I made those mistakes and I try to rectify them by not doing them again. I am guessing that what you consider “sins” I consider “behavioral misjudgement”. That’s why I used the term “sin” when I told you that I “sin”…because I do screw up, often and I am sorry that I do screw up and I try to make sure I don’t repeat said action.
So no, I don’t believe I’m going to Hell as I don’t believe in it and I’m not going to ask forgiveness for my mistakes, they are my mistakes and mine alone to deal with…I’m not going to ask for forgiveness like it’s a “Get Out of Hell Free” card.
I really have to stop looking through their website..
Get this:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/being-a-parent/if-and-when-to-have-a-child-.htm
Look at the reality checks on both sections.
I would like to know if anyone has opinions on this….
Are you pregnant? Do you think you really should be?
Let’s point out your possible weaknesses.
Are you perfect?
Is everything in your life in order?
If you said no to either of these questions, you probably should consider abortion. You don’t really sound smart enough, or strong enough to have a child and raise it on your own, based on that information.
Plus, we simply don’t have the resources to help support you through an unplanned pregnancy.
Have a great day!
Valerie and Rae,
Let’s look at some aspect of PP’s affiliate services summary for 2004 (the most recent available):
Pregnancy Tests: 1,073,728
Abortion Procedures: 255,015
Primary Care Clients: 29,369
Prenatal Clients: 17,610
Adoption (Referred Out): 1,414
Infertility Clients: 386
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/pp-services-5552.htm
SOMG,
Thank you so much for the info on methotrexate. Over the years I have seen a vast improvement in diagnostic and surgical techniques resulting in earlier diagnosis and preserved fallopian tubes so that women can again conceive. If methotrexate truly works and spares the woman surgery, that’s even better. You learn something new every day!
Actually, the numbers of babies who were saved in 2006 in Dallas was right at 400. That was a record broken.
So far this year, our sidewalk counselors have saved more than 100 babies in front of the 6 Dallas abortion mills and we are in the process of training more sidewalk counselors.
To put these numbers in perspective, we abort more than 11,000 babies in Dallas county every year.
Take a deep breath and contemplate those numbers. We have not even scratched the scratched of beginning to help these women.
Bethany, your comments are really funny because they are really true….
Andrew, I’m curious: where do the babies go after they’re “saved?” Do they go back in the arms of the woman who did not want them? Are they shoved into the already overcrowded adoption system? Do you have any idea of what happens to them?
Bethany, if a parent honestly believes that a kid will ultimately grow up to be whatever the parent wants, that good parenting will make the kid happy, or that being a good parent comes naturally, than the prospective parent needs a hard reality check.
Andrew, thanks! :)
Andrew, I’m curious: where do the babies go after they’re “saved?” Do they go back in the arms of the woman who did not want them? Are they shoved into the already overcrowded adoption system? Do you have any idea of what happens to them?
Less I’m not trying to be rude, but are you really this ignorant of how the counselors care for the women? Why not go to an abortion clinic and actually get to know some of these people?
And by the way, please, read the topic above! Sheesh!
What do Planned Parenthood, and you, do for women after their abortions are done and they’re shoved out the door, faced to go through the rest of their crisis alone? You do realize it doens’t end there, don’t you? Usually when girls go into an abortion clinic, it’s taking the last ounce of strength they have, because they have so much pressure on all sides from the problems in their life, they honestly do not know where to turn. Many of them have a family who treats them badly or have rejected them. Sometimes it is their boyfriend who has rejected them and they feel that having the abortion will bring him back. After their abortion is done, their problems still exist!!
What do YOU do for them when they’re crying their heart out every night, having nightmares, and knowing that they killed their baby and no one is there to comfort them? What do you do for them when their problems from before the abortion are still there afterwards?
What do you do, Less, and what does Planned Parenthood do, to comfort and counsel these women in need of love and support after their abortions?
Nothing. You tell them they should be relieved!
What an insult!!!
These counselors help women before abortions, after abortions, during pregnancy, after pregnancy, anytime the woman needs their support and love… they don’t just stand there with a bunch of signs all day doing nothing else!
Just read Mary Kay’s story of her situation with Esperanza! Ask yourself your question, then read her post and get your answers!
Bethany, if a parent honestly believes that a kid will ultimately grow up to be whatever the parent wants, that good parenting will make the kid happy, or that being a good parent comes naturally, than the prospective parent needs a hard reality check.
Less, what does this have to do with my post? I was expressing how the second “reality check” sounded, not the first.
Bethany, you didn’t answer at all what I asked. I asked what happened to the babies after they were “saved:” you didn’t answer, you simply attacked me. And I would like proof of the fact that these women feel as though they have no where else to turn. Prove that their families treat them badly. Prove that their boyfriends have rejected them. Are there any statistics to back up what you claim?
Less, when these babies are saved, we have a support system in place to where women (and men) become mentors and supporters to the women going through a difficult pregnancy.
We have hundreds of women who are trained to help these women, refer them to appropriate medical and social service agencies for medical, legal and sometimes even financial help.
http://www.prolifedallas.org/pages/gabriel_overview
They also become a means of emotional and spiritual support and sometimes they even become there labor partner and are with them through the whole labor and delivery process. And yes, they are with them and help them after the baby is born as well.
The statistics that you ask for are hard to come by simply because women do not want to talk openly about their situations with regard to abortion.
But if you want proof, just show up at the White Rose Women’s Center someday and ask to talk to a counselor and see for yourself.
Overcrowded adoption system? How bizarre to even say that. In my experience the exact opposite is the case, with lots and lots of parents wanting to adopt but they can’t because there are no babies available. Could that be because we kill 11,000 every year in Dallas county?
Less –
You asked: What happens to the baby after their “saved”.
Answer: The same thing that happens to the millions/billions of other babies that are born in this world.
Why do you think that because the woman consider abortion anything should be different? That is really arrogant to assume that because she went through the pregnancy by her choice that the child is still unwanted.
As to back up Bethany’s claim of how many can be after abortion. I have posted 9,412 times proof of this, but you and your other pro-choicers just ignore it because the websites have an angel on it, or a prayer, or something else religious, so therefore we must be lying. Why should I or Bethany or anyone else post it again? You know how every website with a religious symbol lies don’t you?
I’ll post these again:
Project Rachel
Project Gabriel
Care-network
The many houses associated with CPC’s and project Gabriel that provide houseing and care…O’connor house is the one here in Indianapolis.
Silent no more
Blackmun wall
Hurt by abortion
Heartbeat international
All the CPC’s
Many many many more could be listed.
Tell me, besides Planned Parenthood how does pro-Choice help these women?
From abortionfacts:
Dr. Ferriera found no relationship between unplanned pregnancies and newborn deviant behavior. In fact, there were more deviant babies of mothers who had planned their pregnancy than those who had not. A. J. Ferriera, “The Pregnant Woman
Less,
The baby’s are usually “saved” because the mother has a change of heart, the baby which started out as an “unwanted” pregnancy becomes a wanted and loved baby. This usually results from her learning about prenatal development and/or viewing an ultrsound of her baby, as well as learning of the emotional/financial support available to her. Also as another poster pointed out, we have a support system in place to where women (and men) become mentors and supporters to the women going through a difficult pregnancy. We have hundreds of pregnancy resource centers which offer parenting education classes and carry infant clothing, diapers, baby food, and furniture (which are often offered up to age 3) and are staffed by volunteer women who can refer them to appropriate medical and social service agencies for medical, shelter, food, legal and sometimes even financial assistance when needed. We do not abondon the women in their time of greatest need for support and love.
As for your claim:
” And I would like proof of the fact that these women feel as though they have no where else to turn. Prove that their families treat them badly. Prove that their boyfriends have rejected them. Are there any statistics to back up what you claim?”
One only has to listen to the voice of women available on unplanned pregnancy and abortion recovery messageboards to learn and understand:
Coerced Abortion:
http://www.passboards.org/forumdisplay.php?f=18
Sharing Stories
http://afterabortion.com/sharing.html
Post-Abortion Healing Support
http://www.voy.com/129741/
Still Deciding:
http://www.webgroups.us/choicetolivewith/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=ef288a5747265b9dc6709d33c49029de
Bethany,
A fascinating and very informative post. How well I remember the bumper stickers “Every Child a Wanted Child” and “Stop Child Abuse, Support Abortion Reform”. When you are doing such a great job of appealling to people’s emotions, why spoil it with the facts? Just another lie the abortion movement was based on.
We could have just as rationally argued that we would solve the problem of wife battering by killing engaged women.
Want statistics, here are some statistics from the Alan Guttmacher Institute:
On average, women give four reasons for choosing abortion. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[12]
Finer LB et al., Reasons U.S. women have abortions: quantitative and qualitative perspectives, Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2005, 37(3):110
Rachael, I understand the statistics, but that doesn’t mean that these women are being “forced” into abortion. It just means that, while they wouldn’t mind have a child at another, later, date, right now they simply can’t, for a variety of reasons. I’d agree that we can help lower rates of abortion by more support and better contraception education, but there are always going to be people who just don’t want kids.
Mary, the pro-life side uses emotional appeals far more than the pro-choice side. Honestly, killing babies? Abortion is murder? Neither is true: the legitimate medical term is fetus, and as abortion is not malicious or illegal, it is not murder. Hello pot, meet kettle.
Bethany, those are some interesting snips of studies, mind linking me to the actual studies?
Valerie, just as you’ve posted these centers before, I’ve explained why I disagree with these places. In many cases, they provide false information to women. I’ve given you instances where Crisis Pregnancy Centers have done so, and was ignored. Jill herself has said she would lie to a woman to “save” the child. As I loath such blatent twisting and adulterizing of information, I likewise am very hestiant to promote the centers that would give out such information.
If a woman has already decided to keep her child and knows all the facts, than let her go to a crisis pregnancy center. But lying to women who are still making the choice is inexcusable.
You are correct, I distrust religious sites. Unless they have links to legitmate studies, I will continue distrusting said sites. You’ve seen the reception that I’ve had at the hands of the more religious of the site: why in the world would I ever go to a religious center in such a situation? Why would I open myself to such abuse? There are women who feel uncomfortable going to religiously affiliated sites.
Andrew, the adoption system is teaming with parents who want white, non-special needs newborns. As the majority of women who abort in the Dallas area are not white, their children would likely be stuck in foster care.
Mary, the pro-life side uses emotional appeals far more than the pro-choice side. Honestly, killing babies? Abortion is murder? Neither is true: the legitimate medical term is fetus, and as abortion is not malicious or illegal, it is not murder. Hello pot, meet kettle.
Less, unless you can prove that the fetus is not a human being, a complete human organism separate from it’s mother, with it’s own DNA…then you cannot prove that it is not the intentional killing of a human being, which is by definition, murder. Stop beating a dead horse. We’ve been through this before.
Rachael, I understand the statistics, but that doesn’t mean that these women are being “forced” into abortion. It just means that, while they wouldn’t mind have a child at another, later, date, right now they simply can’t, for a variety of reasons. I’d agree that we can help lower rates of abortion by more support and better contraception education, but there are always going to be people who just don’t want kids.
Who said they were “FORCED”?
Bethany, those are some interesting snips of studies, mind linking me to the actual studies?
I’ve got an idea, Less…google it. Or call the different places which provided the studies and ask for copies. I cited my sources.
Valerie, just as you’ve posted these centers before, I’ve explained why I disagree with these places. In many cases, they provide false information to women. I’ve given you instances where Crisis Pregnancy Centers have done so, and was ignored. Jill herself has said she would lie to a woman to “save” the child. As I loath such blatent twisting and adulterizing of information, I likewise am very hestiant to promote the centers that would give out such information.
Did you provide us with unbiased sources, as you are so inclined to demand from people who don’t agree with you?
You are correct, I distrust religious sites. Unless they have links to legitmate studies, I will continue distrusting said sites. You’ve seen the reception that I’ve had at the hands of the more religious of the site: why in the world would I ever go to a religious center in such a situation? Why would I open myself to such abuse? There are women who feel uncomfortable going to religiously affiliated sites.
Oh yes, I’m sure you’ll be emotionally scarred for life from all of the “abuse” you’ve endured here.
Bethany,
A fascinating and very informative post. How well I remember the bumper stickers “Every Child a Wanted Child” and “Stop Child Abuse, Support Abortion Reform”. When you are doing such a great job of appealling to people’s emotions, why spoil it with the facts? Just another lie the abortion movement was based on.
We could have just as rationally argued that we would solve the problem of wife battering by killing engaged women.
Mary, isn’t that the truth!
Rachel, great sources, thanks!
Less,
I didn’t say one side uses emotional appeals more than the other. I pointed out that the abortion movement, as they were called back then, used the emotional appeal of child abuse to legalize abortion even though there were no facts to back up the claim that abortion would end child abuse.
I also checked with an online dictionary. The word fetus is derived from the Latin word for offspring, or child.
Mary, I have no doubt this is true. Both sides are wont to use such appeals, just as both sides have unsavory characters who exaggerate claims. It’s not acceptable on either side. Those who make up information to bolster their own claims are utterly repugnant.
Also, fetus is a medical term used to mean an unborn child, which is why it is more acceptable to use in debate.
Bethany, the definition of murder requires also premeditation and malicious intent, as well as the illegality of the action. Abortion has no malicious intent and is not illegal, and therefore is not murder. If you wish to stop having this argument, which I agree is a pointless one, stop claiming that abortion is murder.
You claimed that many women who chose abortion have so much pressure on all sides from the problems in their life, they honestly do not know where to turn. I asked for proof of this. You gave me none. As you were the one who made the claim, you have the burden of proof. It is up to you to prove your own claim, not to me. You cited your sources and I appreciate it, I simply asked if you had the full studies. Nothing more.
I also claimed that CPCs deliberately twist information. I provided information from a CPC’s website, in contrast with Guttmacher’s information. If you are going to use Guttmacher as a source to prove your claims, do not whine when I use the same source to prove mine.
Bethany, you seem to drip with sarcasm today. I didn’t say that I would be “emotionally scarred” from your insistance that I would be damned to hell, simply that this could be a reason why women wuld be hesitant to get help at a religiously affiliated CPC.
Rachel S.
Justification or excuses?
It stupifies me to think that somehow the murder of an unborn child can be justified for so-called altruistic or any reason for that matter.
It boggles the mind.
I’m going to quote you and use some editing license in your quote substituting “5 year old” for “pregnancy”, here goes:
“Also, if you read those stories and speak with women, you’ll learn that it’s not the 5 year old which is problematic, but the circumstances surrounding the 5 year old and lack of emotional support, which lead her to feel abdondoned and that the child won’t be properly cared for. And under better circumstances and with better emotional support, the 5 year old would probably be carried to term (wouldn’t be murdered). One step of reducing the abortion rate (in addition to contraception education and availability) is making for a better support system for working and/or college mothers, and working for viable alternatives which provide both education and support.”
Excuse me, the first step is eliminating abortion as an option, then education in morals.
We have lost our way as a society, where it’s all about me, about my rights, about my life.
Um,
His man, check out my journal before making any ASSumption, I’m in fact pro-life…
Rae,
Any addict (alcoholic, sex addict, sin addict) will tell you that in order to be healed of something you first have to admit you’ve got a problem.
Since you deny that sin exists and that they are only “personal mistakes”, and I assume therefore, without consequence, that evil and good are the same.
Tell me, what happened to people like Hitler and Stalin, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, etc.? Their evil will go unpunished in an afterlife?
I am not saying you are evil like that however, in God’s eyes, one sin is enough to send a person to the same fate as those obviously evil people.
That’s the tragedy. God provides a way out and people ignore it and I guess to God that is the biggest sin of all. He gave His only Son and people choose to spit in His face by denying they have a problem and reject God’s offer of love, mercy and salvation.
I know He will continue to love you and reach out to you, however, the choice is yours. He won’t abort you, you will abort yourself.
Less,
You claimed that many women who chose abortion have so much pressure on all sides from the problems in their life, they honestly do not know where to turn. I asked for proof of this. You gave me none.
Rachael, I understand the statistics, but that doesn’t mean that these women are being “forced” into abortion. It just means that, while they wouldn’t mind have a child at another, later, date, right now they simply can’t, for a variety of reasons. I’d agree that we can help lower rates of abortion by more support and better contraception education, but there are always going to be people who just don’t want kids.
So Less, you keep changing the terms to suit your purpose. First you ask that another poster cite statistics for women who feel pressured into the decision and I gave you links to websites (most neutral by-the-way) to thousands of women’s stories. Also I gave you statistics to back up the women’s stories, coming to the conclusion that many women feel they can’t carry to term and feel pressured to end the pregnancyt by social circumstances and their support system. In fact these are the majority of abortions, abortions for the social elite and those who wish to be childfree are the minority. It doesn’t have to be as extreme as someone strapping her to the abortion table for it to be pressure or coercion, it could come from her support system as verbal pressure to outright ordering her to get an abortion, to threats of bodily harm or withdrawing financial support or the pressure of finances or not having a home. Obviously you’ve not spoken with many women who’ve experienced an unplanned pregnancy nor done much research. However, I suggest you do so before further conversing. On other hand, I’ve been a counselor for women experiencing unplanned pregnancies and a post-abortion counselor for 6 yrs now and can speak with more experience.
Less –
When a woman chooses to keep her child, but doesn’t have the resources or support to do it, where do you suggest she go?
Give me the name and location of an organization that is not religious oriented that would: provide mental and physical support, drive her to and from Dr appts, be with her if needed during deliver, give her baby cloths, diapers, cribs, formula, baby food including material things for other children in the family. Even give her a place to live if she needs it. Show her where to go for government assistant. Give her parenting education classes for free. Get her in with government programs for further education. Project Gabriel, the one I am with, just got a brand new computer to a Mom who wanted to use it so she could work at home. No charge to the mother since she couldn’t afford it.
Give me an organziation’s name and location that does all this and is not religious or is provided by a pro-choice group.
Project Gabriel does all this. So does many, many, many CPC’s and other Church programs.
Sorry if in your superior state you think they are lying. The fact is, there is no proof of those lies. That is why CPC’s have never been sued for providing false medical information. As provided in my link above, the National Abortion Federation can only cite lawsuits of CPC’s have their name to close to one that provides abortion or in their advertisements.
Now, lets talk about proof. Here is the first paragragh for http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/cpc.html
“Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPCs) exist to keep women from having abortions. In many instances, they misinform and intimidate women to achieve their goal. Women describe being harassed, bullied, and given blatantly false information. Many assert that their confidentiality has been violated, and that mistreatment by CPCs has threatened their health.”
You will notice they do not cite a source for this informaion. Why? Because it is not true.
His Man,
Are you really continuing to speak to me in such a manner!? You are preaching to the choir, dear. I may have a different idea of how to reduce abortion rates, but I hold a respect for life at every stage and I classify myself as a pro-ife feminist and a Christian. Again, I invite you (and others here) to read some of my articles at my LiveJournal.
But keep in mind that God calls us not condemn others for their sins unless we ourselves are sinless or flawless. Now go away, you hypocrit!
Less, I would like to see your documented proof that CPC’s lie and give out false information. So far I have not seen any, although you may have reponded on another post earlier..
Rachel S., I looked over your journal and thought it was good.
When will you be updating it again?
Andrew,
Thank you. To answer your question, I’m in the process of transferring my newer entries from a previous journal a little at a time, but hope to have them all transfered by the end of the summer.
Mary, I have no doubt this is true. Both sides are wont to use such appeals, just as both sides have unsavory characters who exaggerate claims. It’s not acceptable on either side. Those who make up information to bolster their own claims are utterly repugnant.
Then it is repugnant in your eyes that Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice organizations make such constantly promote the idea that if abortion is made illegal, women will start doing coat hanger abortions, when no documented cases of abortions by coat hanger exist, and the majority of illegal abortions before abortion was legal were performed in doctors offices?
Or do you think that the anecdotal evidence they use is more worthy because it agrees with you than the evidence from the pro-life side? Even though you claim anecdotal evidence is not good enough as a source of information.
Less, I’m sure you find it equally repugnant that these figures about illegial abortion were falsified:
On June 18, 1989, CNN World Report, in an hour-long documentary, stated that in Brazil there are 6 million illegal abortions each year and 400,000 women die. But the U.N. Demographic Yearbook of 1988 lists only 40,000 women, age 15-44, dying each year of all causes. Pop. Research Inst. Review, Jan. 1991, p. 12
In Portugal the claimed figure was 2,000 deaths. The actual number of deaths of females between the ages of 15-46 was 2,106 in the same year from all natural causes, accidents and illness. There were only 97 listed in the “complications of pregnancy” of which 12 were due to abortion, including spontaneous and induced, legal and illegal. Portuguese Anuario Estatistico, Tables 11, 16, 111 221
In Italy, the claimed figure before their abortion referendum was 20,000. In the age group 15-45, there were actually only 11,500 female deaths from all causes. Primum Non Nocere, vol. IV, no. 1, 1983
In Germany the claim was that 15,000 women died annually. In fact, only 13,000 women of reproductive age died annually in West Germany, and less than 100 died of complications of abortion, legal and illegal. Kurchoff, Deutches Arzteblatt, vol. 69, no. 27, Oct. 26, 1972
At the United Nations Habitat meeting in Istanbul, Turkey, in June 1996, the following “fact” was given wide publicity: The UNICEF suddenly claimed that 585,000 women die each year from causes related to pregnancy and birth.
The pro-life NGO
Rachael, do not talk down to me. I’ve done my research; I wouldn’t be debating if I didn’t. I have experience with women who have had unexpected pregnancies: the majority chose abortion for their own reasons and feel no guilt over it.
Your links are anecdotal evidence: there is no prove that any of these stories happened. Your statistical evidence doesn’t indicate that that majority of women are forced, simply that they realize that at the time, having a child is undesireable. Under difference circumstances, it’s quite possible that these women would bring the child to term. Circumtances warrent that the woman chose in favor of abortion, but they are not being forced.
My mother forced me to have one and convinced my father to go along with her. This is being forced.
I know I did the right thing because there is no way that I could’ve been able to give the child a good life. I can barely support myself. This is not.
Valerie, if a woman can stomach going to a religiously oriented CPC after chosing to continue the pregnancy, that’s great. But I know many women who would not at all feel comfortable associating with religious organiziations. Do these places push their beliefs on other people? Do they judge them? If people like HisMan are any indication of the type of people pro-life centers attract as volunteers or workers, I’m betting they pass quite a few judgements.
Andrew, I can’t find the post right now. It was an earlier post discussing CPS, but I can’t find it at the moment and I didn’t save it. I’ll have to look through the posts.
Less, I would like to see your documented proof that CPC’s lie and give out false information. So far I have not seen any, although you may have reponded on another post earlier..
I would like to see the documented proof of this too.
Valerie, if a woman can stomach going to a religiously oriented CPC after chosing to continue the pregnancy, that’s great. But I know many women who would not at all feel comfortable associating with religious organiziations. Do these places push their beliefs on other people? Do they judge them? If people like HisMan are any indication of the type of people pro-life centers attract as volunteers or workers, I’m betting they pass quite a few judgements.
Less, have you ever stepped inside a CPC center? If not, please, go to one. I would love for you to see first hand how they actually treat people, and to see the care and support they give women. They are most certainly not judgemental. And I would love for you to come back to this blog after going to one, and share your experiences.
Bethany, have you ever heard of the plural you? I posted on your blog the other day addressing the “attack” on HisMan. In that post were several quotes addressing the numerous times pro-choiers were condemned to hell.
Prove Guttmacher to be biased. Simply because it is the reserach arm of Planned Parenthood does not make it biased. To prove such a bias, you first must ascertain that the methods used to prove causation are faulty. Until such time, your claim that Guttmacher is biased is unproved and thus will be considered as false.
Any action which willfully takes the life of an innocent human being is malicious to that human being.
Define innocent. Now, how is a fetus, a human that has not have any life experience and has no concept of moral/immoral, innocent?
Your links are anecdotal evidence: there is no prove that any of these stories happened. Your statistical evidence doesn’t indicate that that majority of women are forced, simply that they realize that at the time, having a child is undesireable. Under difference circumstances, it’s quite possible that these women would bring the child to term. Circumtances warrent that the woman chose in favor of abortion, but they are not being forced.
Just as the stories of those who have no regrets are ancedotal as well. But yet sites I gave are for women to seek support and non-judgemental advice regarding their unplanned pregnancy and are not only staffed by real individuals but the visitors are real too, but you will not ackknowledge their existance, experiences or feelings because it does not support what you believe. Until you’ve walked a mile in these women’s shoes you have no right to determine that their feelings or experiences weren’t real.
Bethany, have you ever heard of the plural you? I posted on your blog the other day addressing the “attack” on HisMan. In that post were several quotes addressing the numerous times pro-choiers were condemned to hell.
I haven’t seen any of the posts condemning anyone to Hell, Less. I challenge you to show me the post where Hisman said, “You’re going to Hell”.
And as for the plural you, reread your post. It was not at all obvious that you were referring to multiple people. And even if you were, isn’t that stereotyping? Something you’re supposedly against?
Prove Guttmacher to be biased. Simply because it is the reserach arm of Planned Parenthood does not make it biased. To prove such a bias, you first must ascertain that the methods used to prove causation are faulty. Until such time, your claim that Guttmacher is biased is unproved and thus will be considered as false.
Okay Less, here’s one example of Guttmacher’s bias (yes, from a pro-life perspective, but read the WORDS, okay?):
Over the past few weeks leading up to this New Year and a new Congress, the boldness of certain groups to perform “studies”
Define innocent. Now, how is a fetus, a human that has not have any life experience and has no concept of moral/immoral, innocent?
An unborn child is innocent in the same way that a newborn baby is innocent, having done no wrong.
Here’s the previous post.
http://www.pregnancycenters.org/hadabortion.html
Do they provide any citations for their information? Any proof? Nope? I’d consider that presenting false information. And funny, that’s from a crisis pregnancy center website.
Plan B
Here’s the previous post.
http://www.pregnancycenters.org/hadabortion.html
Do they provide any citations for their information? Any proof? Nope? I’d consider that presenting false information. And funny, that’s from a crisis pregnancy center website.
What about Imnotsorry.net, Less?
Do you believe the stories on that site? Do they provide citations for their information?
Oh and you’re wrong, Less…that same site you just mentioned DOES have their sources cited! Go to the bottom of the page, and it will say:
To access source documentation click here
.
When human life begins is a matter of debate, and at this point it is not an embryo: it’s a zygote. Plan B has not proven to be an abortificant.
Really? Do you have unbiased sources to prove this claim, Less?
Less, it’s not reasonable to assume that Guttmacher is a safe, unbiased source of information about abortion. After all, they are quite proud of and open about their support of women’s reproductive health.
I would prefer that we not use their statistcs one way or another.
Besides, if you say that Guttmacher is OK to use then you have to allow us pro-lifers the right to use our pro-life sites in the same way ie. no questioning of their reliability or their beliefs.
It’s just a matter of being honest, and finding good sources that are not biased either way.
Hi Less,
One thing I do find very strange is that for pro-choicers there is nothing attached to abortion but relief. Please re-read MK’s post (above – 04/21/07 06:46 AM) to Diana. It is very succinct. Abortion is a very artificial intervention in a natural process – pregnancy. Pro-choicers here roundly condemn both abuse and violence; and, in the same breath laud abortion. [Pro-lifers on the other hand could not see anything more abusive or violent than abortion itself. The mere thought of abortion makes a number of us shudder in disbelief.]
Then there are some pro-abort fanatics that say the government is ‘taking over a woman’s womb’. Seems to me, the government by-outlawing-abortion would merely be forcing women/men into taking responsibility for their sexual health … [ reversible vasectomies, anyone] . No?
By the way, Less, you never answered. Do you think the above claims by pro-choicers (completely making up numbers of the deaths due to preganancy) are repugnant?
Oh and here is the documentation that the pregnancy center website links to for their Plan B information (the cited documentation you claimed was not there):
http://www.pregnancycenters.org/MAP_references.pdf
Day 1:
When fertilization occurs, the baby’s features, including sex, hair and eye color, have already been determined.
Notice the term baby. The correct medical term is fetus.
So? Is the information correct or not? Regardless of whether you agree with the terminology….ARE the features of the baby or fetus or whatever YOU believe it should be called, determined at conception or not? Yes or no?
John, great point.
“Any addict (alcoholic, sex addict, sin addict) will tell you that in order to be healed of something you first have to admit you’ve got a problem.”
No, addicts do that because they fail to take respobsibility for their actions and they place the blame on outside forces to take responsibility away from themselves. It’s good that they do admit the problem, but they shouldn’t turn their lives over to a “higher power” they need to look within themselves to change, not expect an invisible diety to help them out.
“Since you deny that sin exists and that they are only “personal mistakes”, and I assume therefore, without consequence, that evil and good are the same.”
There are consequences to every action, be it good or bad. The consequences are either good or bad. I don’t believe in “evil”. Bad decisions lead to bad consequences and good decisions lead to good consequences.
“Tell me, what happened to people like Hitler and Stalin, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, etc.? Their evil will go unpunished in an afterlife?”
I don’t believe in an afterlife. I believe their bodies are rotting in the ground, just like every corporeal being does when they die…they decay and their atoms are absorbed back into the nutrient cycle. Sure, it’s comforting to think that they are getting what they deserve after death, but I don’t believe anything bad is happening, they just simply cease to exist.
“I am not saying you are evil like that however, in God’s eyes, one sin is enough to send a person to the same fate as those obviously evil people.”
Well that’s not terribly fair of God now is it? He should be a bit more loving and tolerant of people’s mistakes and know a minor sin (talking back to your parents for example) from a major sin (shooting somebody in a robbery). As I said, I don’t believe in evil, so I don’t believe people can be evil. They can be horrible monsters yes, but that is by their own doing. Nothing made Hitler, Hitler except Hitler himself.
“That’s the tragedy. God provides a way out and people ignore it and I guess to God that is the biggest sin of all. He gave His only Son and people choose to spit in His face by denying they have a problem and reject God’s offer of love, mercy and salvation.”
You know, God didn’t HAVE to give us his son. He also didn’t HAVE to give us free will and the ability to think and believe what we wish. I imagine he did that for a reason. But by this, are you implying that all non-christians are going to Hell because they don’t believe in your God?
“I know He will continue to love you and reach out to you, however, the choice is yours. He won’t abort you, you will abort yourself.”
It’s kind of difficult to abort yourself once you’re already born…
Bethany, I didn’t say I didn’t believe them, I simply stated that there is no proof. I’d prefer to use reliable statistical evidence. Huh, seems they’ve changed the site since I last went there: good for them. But what about the first link, about post abortion stress syndrom, or whatever they call it? Any statistics there now?
Andrew, I prefer to judge sources on an individual basis. If you look at a study and know what you’re looking for, you can tell if a source is viable or not. Based upon the methods of determining causation, correlation, the methods of gathering data, the claims made, it’s very easy to tell whether or not a source is acceptable to use in a debate.
John, rape is a “natural process” as well. Animals do it as a way to ensure that that the most physically fit pass on their genes. Should the government not outlaw that as well? Infanticide is also a natural process: guppies will eat their own young if their environment is too full. Should the government not outlaw that, as it’s a natural process?
By forcing someone to “take responsibility for their sexual health,” you are making the baby a punishment. Is that the mentality you want to be known for, the idea that sex is something that ought to be punished?
You’re ignoring the fact that sex has other functions besides procreation.
Less,
Lady Chatterly’s Lover? I’m sure you’ll enjoy that one. A hundred years ago in college I had to read the Canterbury Tales and I was surprised at how racy those were! I had thought that since they were written centuries ago they would be a little more tame. Apparently human nature changes little.
Mary, I’m having to read all three versions of Lady Chatterley’s Lover for a research project. It’s absolutely facinating. Lawrence was a facinating man, and the message of the book is quite positive.
Rae,
Out of respect for your faith in yourself, well, I’ll just leave you to yourself.
It’s fruitless to talk to someone whose heart is closed to the truth.
Bethany, I didn’t say I didn’t believe them, I simply stated that there is no proof. I’d prefer to use reliable statistical evidence.
No, you said they are purposely deceiving people with false information. You have not shown any evidence that this is true.
Hi Less,
Part of a debate is trying to understand the opposition’s opinion … am I ever having a difficult time understanding yours. You said: By forcing someone to “take responsibility for their sexual health,” you are making the baby a punishment. Is that the mentality you want to be known for, the idea that sex is something that ought to be punished?
—- weird, weird …. last I understood, it took-two-to-tango so a vasectomy is male contraception …. no baby is ever conceived …. and from what I understand is the only difference of note in the sex act … just how is this punishment for a baby that doesn’t exist (and never will) or, for sex in general? Remember I said reversible vasectomy … such does exist.
Maybe you should not get all strung out on it being ‘natural’ as … abortion is an interruption in an (intended) process … airplane and space flights are aborted too. The process here is pregnancy. Abortion interves in the process of developing a human being, doesn’t it?
Regarding “post abortive syndrome”… read below:
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry
Volume 43 Issue 6 Page 743 – September 2002
Priscilla K Coleman, David C Reardon, Jesse Cougle (2002)
The quality of the caregiving environment and child developmental outcomes associated with maternal history of abortion using the NLSY data
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 43 (6), 743
Oh Val!
I haven’t read anything here, but I suspect after so many posts, you’ve likely been directed to the “evidence.” It’s called investigative journalism…. alas, much of the time it’s POV… one persons’ compasionate support can readily come off as emotional black-mail.
Finally, if you are really concerned about one camp or the other treating/unfairly accusing the others institutions….
NOBODY’S BOMBED A PCC, THREATENED THEIR EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS, KILLED THEIR EMPLOYEES, OR ATTEMPTED TO BLOCK ACCESS.
Pro-choice has got a long ways to go with their ill treatment of PCCs if they want to hold a candle to fetus jihad.
Cameron, been there, done that.
I pushed “post” before I could finish.
Your argument is a red herring.
What you said has nothing to do with Valerie’s post at all. She wasn’t talking about abortion violence. She was talking about the deception of pro-abortion advocates and organizations which spread the false idea that PCC’s are purposely deceiving women, lying to them, forcing them to have a baby, judging them, etc.
His Man: Thank you for respecting me enough to not badger me on this. And I agree, it is fruitless to try to tell somebody the “truth” when they are close minded, I could say the very same thing about you, but let’s not go there shall we?
“She was talking about the deception of pro-abortion advocates and organizations which spread the false idea that PCC’s are purposely deceiving women, lying to them, forcing them to have a baby, judging them, etc. ”
I agree that the argument is a red-herring, however it is a fine example of the looky-the-hypocrisy crap we see here daily. Alas, two wrongs don’t make a right either….
As result, let’s have some evidence of these accusations, so that we can critically analyze them??? What PCCs and where are being wrongfully/unfairly accused and by whom? Or are you going to cast the demand’s for evidence as hypocritical…..
*giggling
Cameron, if you just take a moment, and actually look through the above comments, you’ll find the answer to your question. Hint: look at Valerie’s posts. (Use ctrl-F to find posts, if you have trouble)
Less – here are different statements by you one this post.
“Bethany, you didn’t answer at all what I asked. I asked what happened to the babies after they were “saved:””
We have answered many times. WE help them. Pro-Choice and PP and NAF and NOW leave them to deal with everything themselves. What about helping the mother? You (the general you, not the you you) seem to be wanting to help the mother to ‘choose’ abortion, what do you do after the baby isn’t ‘saved’? You tell the mother that she should feel relieved. And if she doesn’t feel relieved? It is all in her head because PAS doesn’t exist. However, all other mental illness exist and should be used as an excuse for abortion.
“In many cases, they provide false information to women. I’ve given you instances where Crisis Pregnancy Centers have done so, ”
And I’ve given you the information where PP and NAF have given false information claiming that CPC give false information. No citations are ever given when pro-choice is talking about how horrible CPC’s are. They never mention the tremendous good that is done by them.
“why in the world would I ever go to a religious center in such a situation? Why would I open myself to such abuse? ”
um…do you have any ‘proof’ of said abuse? have you ever been there? I have been in many and have never seen it. Nor have I ever participated in it.
“Andrew, the adoption system is teaming with parents who want white, non-special needs newborns.”
Is that why my cousin had to wait 5 years to adopt a baby. She didn’t have any race specifications. She adopted Stephen. He died at the age of 5 because of being a ‘crack baby’ and FAS. She waited 5 years for that Less! 5 years!
“As the majority of women who abort in the Dallas area are not white, their children would likely be stuck in foster care. ”
hmmm… Black genocide anyone?
“Mary, the pro-life side uses emotional appeals far more than the pro-choice side. Honestly, killing babies? Abortion is murder? Neither is true: the legitimate medical term is fetus, and as abortion is not malicious or illegal, it is not murder. Hello pot, meet kettle.”
Wait…. there’s more….
“Mary, I have no doubt this is true. Both sides are wont to use such appeals, just as both sides have unsavory characters who exaggerate claims. It’s not acceptable on either side. Those who make up information to bolster their own claims are utterly repugnant. ”
So which is it?
“You claimed that many women who chose abortion have so much pressure on all sides from the problems in their life, they honestly do not know where to turn”
umm…ever looked at the Planned Parenthood website? http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/abortion/choosing-abortion.htm
From the website – Her husband, partner, or parent wants her to have an abortion.
– You may be asked if someone is pressuring you to have an abortion.
Obviously this is a concern of theirs as well.
“Under difference circumstances, it’s quite possible that these women would bring the child to term. Circumtances warrent that the woman chose in favor of abortion, but they are not being forced.”
Why? The different circumstances can be found at a CPC. But I guess we are just too cruel and evil for that.
“But I know many women who would not at all feel comfortable associating with religious organiziations. Do these places push their beliefs on other people? Do they judge them?”
No and NO. Simple isn’t it? We helped a Buddhist once. (I’m in Indiana, not many non-Christians here). And also several athiests. Many “I’m was raised Christian but I never felt confortable” types too. oh – and there was the Wiccan. She was really cool. I actually learned alot from her about the natural way of life, she is one of the people who got me into naturopathic medicine. oh, wait, maybe she was pushing her belief’s on me! ;-0 (Joke, I’m joking!)
I know I am repeating, and repeating everything. But I have to admit, this is the first time I have seen very weak arguments from you. You usually keep me on my toes and really make me think. But not really this time. However, that could just be Lady Chatterly’s Lover in your brain too. (I’ve never read that. Should I?)
And yes, I’m being very sarcastic today. Long story, but this has been a bad weekend.
Cameron!
You’re back. We’ve missed you.
How are things on the Troll side?
Information from http://www.pregnancycenters.org/index.html
This is one of the lying CPC’s –
“***The most common brand of morning-after pill sold in the United States is called Plan B
Aw, Valerie, I’m sorry you had a crummy weekend. :( Mine wasn’t too hot either. The concert I was supposed to go to last night was post-poned due to illness of the drummer and it’s bloody hot out…
I hope this week is better for you. :D
Valerie, question.
For my pre-PA program they require 500 hours of patient contact/patient care. Most people have the advantage over me here because many PA candidates were nurses or something similar, but obviously I am not. Hospitals don’t generally hire summer-only employees and there are several volunteers I know who volunteer at hospitals and do jobs that have nothign to do with patient care.
So right now i”m looking into non-paying internships or volunteer opportunities in small clinics in my town. I’m looking into our free clinic and our women’s health clinic (NO abortions–it’s small town Oklahoma, what do you expect, lol). We have a couple crisis pregnancy centers in town, and one that directly feeds into our Catholic Church. So question. At the center are there medical services available? Then I could look into that as well, for possible patient interaction and patient care.
Let me know!! Thanks!
PrettyPink,
I know your question was directed at Valerie, I hope you don’t mind me answering. Volunteering at a PRC would be a great service to your community and they are always in need of qualified and willing medical personel. And you could maybe train under the direct supervision of the physician overseeing the center.
Either check Heartbeat International’s online directory
http://heartbeatinternational.org/worldwide_directory.asp
or you can call your local PRC to find the nearest one with medical services. Also, here’s an article explaining PRCs with medical services:
http://www.nifla.org/faqs.asp
HTH!
No worries, Rachael. Thank you! I sent an e-mail already. I’ll let you all know how it turns out.
PIP –
Yes, let us know how it turns out!
It should be interesting.
Yes, please do let us know how it turns out! :)
oh, Less –
“Plan B
All I see are mostly links to CPCs, and I only see two links to supposed PP sites making false-accusations… which val has foolishly misrepresented. This link does not support some of the most egregious accusations of false-accusations made by Val, specifically kidnapping and held-against will. Of the remaining presumed false-accusations, Val has made no attempt to support them with the one belated link she?s provided.
Val is lying by accusing the PP of lying in this particular case. Let?s start with this link she provided.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-articles-press/politics-policy-issues/abortion-access/pregnancy-centers-6174.htm
Outlined in this post are three basic lies perpetrated by CPCs according to this PP link provided, however belatedly, as evidence by Val. One accusation made here, and presumably false according to Val, is that their names sometimes suggest that they provide qualified medical services, and they don?t. I did a google search and found several of these independently, and without any problem. For example, http://www.cpcsimi.com/, http://www.islandspcc.org/, http://www.pregnancycareclinic.org/… Etc? I also found some that suggest to me, via their name, medical services by employing clinical terms (e.g. Amnion Center) and using the word ?testing? in the name. These centers do not staff trained medical professionals, and they cannot conduct any tests beyond those avialable in grocery stores. As far as this first lie goes, it doesn?t look like PP is lying about CPCs lying.
The next accusation at the PP link provided is that these centers provide misleading information. They do. I checked-out several local ones for an article I wrote not long ago. One particularly egregious bit of misinformation disseminated by these entities is that abortion causes breast cancer. When I tried to find their sources, like all their stats, most do not list where these statistics come from, and when they do, it?s never the primary source, but instead another pro-life web site. These statistics are cyber-mythology. I eventually tracked down the breast cancer one to an outdated research paper listed at the National Pro-Life web site. The primary source is over ten years old, and also a minority report? no other studies have been able to find a conclusive link, and it appears that giving birth actually decreases your chances of getting breast cancer (more kids equals less chance of breast cancer). As far as I know, nobody?s controlled for that aspect.
The last thing is coercion. The PP article quotes someone who has counseled CPC victims, and without breaking confidentiality, it?s not possible to verify. However, there are some investigative journalism efforts which have exposed some degree of emotional blackmail. I read one of these investigations myself, but it has since fallen off the google news searches for whatever reasons, and I can?t find a current one. It’s not unreasonable however, to conclude that women seeking abortions may actually go to these centers unwittingly and have to deal with some discomfort upon finding out it?s not what they had in mind.
Again… Val has lurched into the land of hyperbole and missrepresentation, and has restored my lack of faith in the quality of information provided at this delusional lil’ fetus-centric blog.
Cam –
Thanks. You just proved my point.
Nice way to verify all your information by the way. hmm..
no lawsuits based on these.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/pregnancy/pregnant-now-what.htm
*may perform your pregnancy tests without medical supervision.
*won’t give you complete and correct information about all options.
*may try to frighten you with misleading films and pictures that are designed to keep you from choosing abortion.
*will lie to you about the medical and emotional effects of abortion.
*may tell you that you are not pregnant even if you are, to fool you into continuing your pregnancy without knowing
Cameron, look at the links you provided again. All of them provide limited medical services other than pregnancy testing. (ultrasounds, STD testing, etc).
From one site:
“LIMITED MEDICAL SERVICES
Valerie, I think we posted at the same time ;)
Bethany – Great minds think alike!
:D
Update: One of the pregnancy centers offered me a volunteer job being a pregnancy counselor and observing ultrasounds when I am not counseling. I’m going to talk to the Pre-PA advisor today to see if counseling counts (the sheet/website is kind of vague about what counts). I’ll let you know what he says.
Good Luck!
What is Pre-PA? I know you’ve said before, but there are so many abbreviations now, I get confused! Just look at this post and see how many combo of letter are used just for pregnancy centers! AAHHH!!!
Observing ultra sounds is awsome! If you get to do it, you’ll love it.
Valerie, pre-Physician Assistant.
The program I’m in guarantees me entrance into SLU’s top 20 PA grad school as long as I fulfill the requirements, which is 500 hours of patient care. See more here:
http://www.slu.edu/x2348.xml
http://www.slu.edu/x6930.xml
Val,
If I’m correct, Pre-PA stands for Pre-Physician’s Assistant :-)
LOL PrettyPink, we must of posted at the same time too! :-D
Haha, looks like it! Everyone is thinking alike today.
When I look at my post, it sounds like I said the 500 hours is the only requirement….it’s not, there is a GPA requirement and everything, it’s on the website.
oh – okay.
What does a PA do? I always thought a physician assistant would be a nurse. Now I’m confused again.
It’s like a nurse practitioner. At SLU it’s a master’s program..
Basically you can make diagnoses, order tests, prescribe medicine (most states need a signature of a doctor for narcotics), etc. So you have more power than a nurse, and get paid substantially better, I think (some starting salaries depending on the state, position and hospital is around $65,000). The big difference is that a PA works under a doctor and therefore is subject to his or her orders. The major decisions usually don’t go to PAs. For example in the ER the doctors are working on trauma patients so usually PAs would be there helping the less severe patients and in some cases can assist in trauma procedures. Some assist in orthopedic surgery (no surgery for me though, thanks). I think there is more on that website if you want to poke around.
oh – I understand now.
Why no surgery? It is really facinating. Of course, my experience is with Dogs, Cats and Llama’s so it may be a bit different.
Surgery just doesn’t interest me as much as the other fields do. Plus the requirements for most surgeons don’t work for me at all. For example, although I generally work well under pressure, it seems that surgery would be a greater and more constant “pressure” and I am not sure I can handle it.
ER and OB/GYN has both rewarding and stressful times, and since I have a greater interest in it I think it would be a better fit. Also, general practice is enticing because the hours are nice, I get to work with people of all ages as well, and the stress level is generally lower. I’ll have to do my rounds I guess to figure out which place is really better for me though.
PIP –
My sister just graduated from nursing school. She became an RN at age 40! She said during school that she absolutely would not work in pediatrics. And now, she is working at Children’s Hospital in Cincinnati. She loves it. Never say never.
I always liked the stress levels to be just a bit elevated. Working with the vets in the exam rooms was boring to me! But treatment and surgery, that is where I loved to be. You really got to see some rewarding healings. Where I used to work is a full scale veterianry medical hospital. Which means doggy and kitty ER + basic medicine. It was fun being able to go around and work with so many different area’s.
But, that is just the way I liked it. I could never work in a human hospital. I don’t like people that much. The dog and cats my bite and scratch, but it is more forgivable when they do it. ;-)
Good luck! How long do you have left in school?
Andrew,
Just an update to our earlier conversation, I’ve finally gotten around to updating my journal with quite a bit! Hope you all have a great evening!
Next year is my junior year, and then after I graduate I have the ~3 years of grad school…
…I”m really worried though. i’m hoping to keep in my scholar’s program, but I’m so afraid that it won’t work out! All of these requirements!!
I’m being confronted with all of this work and studying..in the next two weeks it’s gonna be hell. Simply put I’m completely freaking out.
PIP, good luck with everything!!
Thank you Bethany!
Good luck PIP!
Thanks val! I’m posting pictures of New York all around my room and writing things like “DON’T get online until breaktime” “STAY MOTIVATED” and “Are you daydreaming? GET TO WORK” all round my room…hopefully it’ll get me going.
Also, i got confirmation about the crisis thing, and they said it does count. So for about 24 hours a week I’ll be volunteering there! This summer is going to be so busy!!
Thanks val! I’m posting pictures of New York all around my room and writing things like “DON’T get online until breaktime” “STAY MOTIVATED” and “Are you daydreaming? GET TO WORK” all round my room…hopefully it’ll get me going.
Also, i got confirmation about the crisis thing, and they said it does count. So for about 24 hours a week I’ll be volunteering there! This summer is going to be so busy!!
Congratulations, Kate! That’s wonderful! :)
Congrats! I’m excited for you!
The notes around the room is a good idea. I found that if I did that but in real obnoxious colors it worked better. Also, change them up several times so you don’t get used to looking at them.
Good luck!
Thanks everyone!!
I’m really excited! I have a feeling I will really enjoy my position.
Now if I could only survive finals…ugh…getting burnt out already. I have an organic test monday..3 papers due friday..take home test and half of a final the following monday AND biology test the following monday, almost right after my first final! I am worried about both chemistry and biology in particular…because if I do well in orgo I may get an A- (as I am in a similar situation as last spring and I got an A- in Chem II); I may have a chance of getting a B- in cell structure if I get a decent grade on the combined final. But considering my hard luck in that class I find that implausible. Ugh..so depressed about the situation with that class.
Just keep focus!! That’s what I’m telling myself.
Yikes! Haven’t you ever heard of taking an easy class!
;-)
Good luck on your finals.
Hey – if there is a rain storm in your area a good stress reliever is to go out and play in the rain! It’s fun! Jumping in puddles and splashing around. I tried to do it every chance I could in college.
Easy classes? What are those??
lol
There was a storm last night, it was fun to watch the lightning and stuff.