Princess Diana

princess%20diana%20boys.bmpTen years ago today, Princess Diana was killed in a car accident in Paris. She is another of those pop icons I studied and admired. She was a wonderful mother and humanitarian. She used her spotlight for good. She was a gorgeous fashionista. She was flawed, but we all are.
At least for me, Princess Diana’s death created another of those freeze frames in life, like when President Kennedy died, or 9/11, or the Challenger accident. I was in church when I heard, between Sunday School and the worship service. I was so shocked I couldn’t concentrate after that, truly saddened.
When I spent one day in Paris a couple years ago, the tunnel where she died was a must see. Such a tragic, surreal place.
Where were you? What are your thoughts, good, bad, or indifferent?

62 thoughts on “Princess Diana”

  1. I was 16 and in my very first college class when I heard the news. What truly affected me was that Mother Theresa died so soon after Diana and wasn’t extended the same level of fuss (in my opinion). I also saw the rife tributes to Diana (calling her Saint Diana) while someone like Mother Theresa, considered by people of all faiths to be saintly, was not nearly as recognized. My mother, sister, and I instantly thought, though, that this was God’s mercy, since Mother Theresa was a humble woman and probably wouldn’t have wanted the focus on her. She stated over and over in her writings that she wanted the focus on Jesus.

  2. Jill,
    A couple days after Diana’s death, I had to travel to NewCastle, England for work. It seemed that Americans were taking her death harder than her fellow Brits. ..

  3. I was at a Marian Conference. It was the same weekend that Mother Theresa died. I remember thinking that while it was sad that Diana had died, how come no body was mentioning Mother Theresa. I saw many magazine covers the following week that had Dianas picture on the cover. Only one with Mother Theresa’s. I remember thinking, “Yes Diana was pretty with her flawless skin and big blue eyes, but it was Mother Theresa face that was “Beautiful” with her wrinkles and big brown eyes.
    Even today, 10 years later, I’m writing about the anniversary of Diana’s death here on the site, and no mention of Mother Theresa. To me, this says alot about where societies head is at…

  4. Jaqueline,
    I wrote my post before I saw yours. So happy someone else felt like I did. I’ll be remembering Mother Theresa this week, not Diana.

  5. I know I’ll be bashed for saying this, but I did read that Diana had an abortion. I really don’t have an opinion of her one way or another. I admire Mother Teresa so much more.

  6. I was ten. I don’t think I really knew who Princess Diana was apart from the fact that she was…you know…a princess. Other than that, the only thing I really recall was that they came out with a Beanie Baby that was in honor of Princess Diana and my best friend got one and I didn’t.
    I love Paris though. One of my favorite cities ever.

  7. Yes, and what is society harping on? Beauty. Is it any wonder that so many girls have eating disorders? *I know that’s a little off topic, but I was just sayin*

  8. Note: I didn’t really know enough of her to have an opinion about her- I just knew she was no Mother Theresa and yet she got all the fuss.

  9. @Heather: Princess Diana herself was bulimic.
    I was only 9 when she died, so I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other, though I do think she was overrated.

  10. Jill,
    Princess Diana and Mother Theresa died during the same time. I think they led completely different lives. The secular society states we should live our lives like Princess Diana – someone who’s rich, does photo ops with children to look good and it’s ok to have an abortion.
    Mother Theresa gave her whole life to God. She carried the cross for the good of others her whole life. To me Princess Diana and Mother Theresa are complete opposites.
    As a Catholic I believe we need to strive to be saints like Mother Theresa. Princess Diana got all the media attention between the two because secular society’s ways and not the same as God’s ways.
    Just my thoughts.
    Mike

  11. Well, I am ashamed. Busted. They died on the same day, didn’t they? My only (lame) excuse is I’m not Catholic and wasn’t exposed to Mother Teresa as much. Don’t beat me up. I know nonCatholics revere her, too, as they should.

  12. Jill,
    Mother Theresa died 5 days after Diana. As far as Diana goes i’m indifferent, always have been.

  13. IMO it was mighty tough on Diana, being in the spotlight all the time as she was, yet she grew up in front of us and in the end did very well.
    Doug

  14. Not to trample on a woman’s grave, but I just read a little more about the Princess. Appears that she had affairs with married men, aborted to cover them up, suffered from mental illnesses and bullimia (probably due to the intense strain of being in the constant spotlight).
    Although I pity the pain she endured in her life and her untimely death, I am even more appalled at people referring to her as a “saint”. Being nice and a philanthropist, but living unrighteously does not a “saint” make.

  15. Jacqueline, I agree. I knew I’d read about her abortion somewhere. I lost respect for her. I just couldn’t help it. Perhaps she was trying to redeem herself. I hope she’s at peace.

  16. I always felt sorry for her – seems like she was seen as a little brood mare from the beginning – good stock to make healthy heirs. I dont believe the royal family ever intended for ‘the masses’ to become as enchanted with her as they did. I never liked Chuckie much – he looked like the front end of a horse, and during his marriage he acted like the other end of one.

  17. I liked her as a kind hearted person, but i never considered her a “saint”. She put a human presence in the normally “stiff upper lipped” royal family. And she did do a lot of work with charities not just “photo ops with kids to look good”. Her sons I hear are continuing that particular legacy of hers.
    Question for any Catholics: Do you think that Mother Theresa will be “sainted”? I’m thinking that there has to be proof that she did so many miracles or something and then there’s something else that needs to be proved, I forgot what it is……anyway, just an honest question because I am fuzzy on the whole “saint verification” process……if anyone could enlighten me.

  18. I really don’t remember where I was when I heard of her death. Much like John Lennon. Celebs deaths just don’t have that great of meaning for me.
    I did spy Diana with Prince Chuck up in the snooty box at the Royal Ascot the year before their bethrothal. Couldn’t tell much about her with spy glasses. I thought at the time that she was too tall and too attractive to be a possibility for Chuck. Little did I know.
    I feel that she brought a human element to the Brit Royals that was unheard of before her. She left them changed.

  19. Jill,
    Princess Diana and Mother Theresa died during the same time. I think they led completely different lives. The secular society states we should live our lives like Princess Diana – someone who’s rich, does photo ops with children to look good and it’s ok to have an abortion.
    Mother Theresa gave her whole life to God. She carried the cross for the good of others her whole life. To me Princess Diana and Mother Theresa are complete opposites.
    As a Catholic I believe we need to strive to be saints like Mother Theresa. Princess Diana got all the media attention between the two because secular society’s ways and not the same as God’s ways.
    Just my thoughts.
    Mike
    What do you feel that the nun should have gotten media attention for? Recitation of prayer isn’t exactly interesting or news. Di rang in a new era for European Royals. Contrasting a nun that prayed over the dying to someone attempting to raise funds and interest in preventing those deaths isn’t the same in my book.

  20. JKeller,
    Yes I do believe she will be made a saint. To be canonized (the term for being made a saint) you go through a couple of stages. One is being beatified, worthy of note. These people are called blessed. It means they are on their way to sainthood.
    The miracle that you speak of must be done after the person dies. Through their intercession. And it’s no easy task. The miracles are scrutinized. If it is indeed found that a miracle has taken place, then the person is moved toward sainthood…keep in mind that the person is already a saint, it’s just a matter of “formally” declaring them so…
    Here’s more:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

  21. Thanks MK,
    What if the person was known to perform miracles during their lifetime? Do they still need to do miracles after their death?
    I was in a town called Lucca in Italy and they have a local saint, Santa Zitta, who was a servant girl so she is known as a saint to the poor. Her job was to buy food at the markets for her master but she would give it to starving children on her way home instead. Her master would get really angry and told her if she did this again he would kill her. The next time she went to the markets she did the same thing, gave all the food to the starving children. Her master said that he had heard what she had done, but then she opened her apron and all the food was there, it was a miracle that the food had regenerated.
    Anyway, I think that she had been known to have performed other miracles besides this one during her lifetime, so my question would be, do these miracles count as the miracles that a person needs to perform to be a saint, even if they didn’t occur after death?
    P.S. I saw several saints when I was in Italy, including the head of Saint Catherine and the rest of Saint Catherine (in two different cities) and John XXIII in St. Peter’s. I also went into the Vatican grottoes and saw the tomb of John Paul II where people had put flowers and prayer cards on it.

  22. JKeller,
    Great questions…
    If the person performed miracles in their lifetimes, this would be one of the signs that the person should be canonized, but from my understanding, not enough to get them there. It probably has something to do with miracles occurring after death, showing that they have indeed made it to heaven and are personally interceding with God there on our behalf…
    I’m going out to Aurora right now with our priest…I’ll ask him.

  23. I’m going out to Aurora right now with our priest…I’ll ask him.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    GOOD PLAN!
    FEMA has delared Illinois a designated disaster area http://www.fema.gov/news/disasters.fema. People have lost their loved ones, homes and livelihoods to flood.
    I think it’s important that you go there and whine.
    While you’re at it, why don’t you force much-needed law enforcement resources to be spent monitoring you whiners instead of helping the flood victims?
    Tell your priest to trade that stupid collar for and pair of hip-waders and at least TRY to do something useful.

  24. Laura,
    Can you at least try to act like a civilized person and not talk like you are a teenager in high school. Maybe you are better suited for a pro-abort blog. There is no point that you are making on this blog at all that I can see and other than saying this i’ve never wanted to even bother saying anything to you. Yes, I know, you don’t care, but I said it anyway….

  25. Rosie, I care, and bravo!
    Laura, while you’re sitting here typing repetitive insults on this blog, what useful thing exactly are YOU doing for all those people? I’d think, with as much faux concern as you have shown, that you would have taken the first flight to Illinois so that you could trade your numskull comments for hip waders and do something useful! Is that what you’re planning to do this evening? Didn’t think so.

  26. Sally,
    Here’s the differences between Princess Diana and Mother Teresa…
    One was young, tall and beautiful.
    The other was old, short and homely
    One kept herself in good shape physically.
    The other took no special care of her body.
    One was royalty.
    The other was a commoner.
    One was a princess.
    The other was a nun.
    One was rich.
    The other possessed nothing that she could call her own.
    One led the fashion parade for the world.
    The other wore a simple blue and white cotton sari.
    One left her palace for occasional excursions among the less-privileged.
    The other was always in their midst.
    One returned each night to the lap of luxury.
    The other lived among the destitute and the dying.
    One stored up treasures on earth.
    The other stored up treasure in heaven.
    One was of the world.
    The other was in the world, but not of it.
    One dabbled in astrology and ‘New Age’.
    The other devoted time to prayer.
    One had a nominal Christian faith.
    The other lived a life of faith in God.
    One broke up a family.
    The other built up a community.
    One tried to take her own life.
    The other gave her life for others.
    One fed the gossip columns with her questionable life-style.
    The other was admired for her righteous lifestyle.
    Let’s be honest with ourselves.
    One was known as having committed adultery.
    The other had opted for life-long celibacy.
    One’s husband [Charles] was a spokesman for anti-Christian New Age philosophies.
    The other’s spouse [Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life] ushered in the true New Age of man.
    One died with her lover in a high-speed car chase after a night of wining and dining, while her sons and their father were in another country.
    The other died surrounded by her family, a sharing and caring community.
    One’s last words were reported to be “Leave me alone.”
    The other’s were “I love you, my Jesus.”
    TIME magazine put Princess Diana on the cover and devoted 40 pages to her. The same issue gave 7 pages to Mother Teresa, buried at the back. The world’s response to the death of these two women reveals much about the spiritual emptiness and the values of the world today. Jesus said: ‘By their fruit you shall know them’ (Mt 7:16).So, judging by their fruit, which one was the true saint and which one the counterfeit?
    In 1989, Mother Teresa said “There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ. Jesus is my God. Jesus is my Spouse. Jesus is my Life. Jesus is my only Love. Jesus is my All in All. Jesus is my Everything. Because of this, I am never afraid.”
    Mike

  27. Mike,
    If I knew how to embedd those little animated pictures like Bethany, I would place a giant clapping hands pic right
    Here —–>
    Joe

  28. Mike,
    I just forwarded that to my parish priest. He was just telling me that he wanted to do a homily on the Mother Theresa/Diana thing and then I saw this…
    I hope you don’t mind. It was sooooo beautiful!

  29. Diana was a tramp and adulterer who should have been tried for adultery and upon conviction executed.
    When she died I could care less. All the news coverage on this tramp was annoying and I remember going a long while not watching TV to avoid all of this news crap.
    The constant coverage of the Craig scandal on the news networks reminds me of how disgusted I felt when that tramp was being talked about on the news incessantly.
    The very sight of Diana makes me flatulate.

  30. Laura, in which state do you live?
    Posted by: Jill Stanek at September 3, 2007 8:45 AM
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My boss thinks I live in my own private Idaho, but I’m actually a native Californicator.

  31. Bethany asked me:
    “Zeke, do you remember how Jesus treated the adulterous woman in the Bible?”
    Yes, He wanted to see her and the guy she committed adultery with tried and upon conviction executed. His conflict in answering the question about the crime was the fact that Rome had taken away Israel’s authority to execute anyone. This is a fact that you are completely unaware of I know. But its true.
    Here is a detailed explanation of the attempt to get Jesus into trouble by bringing this adulterer to Him. Save this explanation of the passage somewhere on your hard drive or save the link to this article http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML
    ————————————————————–
    The Woman Caught In Adultery
    Does the story of the woman caught in adultery, forgiven and released (John 8:3-11) negate the death penalty?
    God Forgave Adulterers Before
    Gomer was an adulteress yet God forgave her (Hos. 3:1). Still, He demanded that His people obey His law (Hos. 4:6).
    King David committed adultery and murder (2 Sam. 11). Yet God forgave him (Psalm 32:1-5).
    It was a conscious decision on God’s part to not execute David. As Nathan said to David:
    As Nathan said to David:
    * “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However… by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme…” 2 Sam. 12:13
    Still, God’s law remained in effect (Ps. 1:2; 19:7; 78:1, 5-8; 89:30-32; 119).
    God forgave the New Testament adulterer just as He forgave Old Testament adulterers, in neither instance revoking His law. God has all authority to forgive the criminal and disregard temporal punishment. Contrariwise, Men must obey God and cannot ignore punishment.
    The Pharisees Wanted to Trap Christ
    The Pharisees wanted to accuse Jesus of rebelling against the Roman Empire:
    * This [the Pharisees] said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. John 8:6
    Rome had revoked the Jews’ authority to put a criminal to death (John 18:31). A straight-forward answer to the Pharisees would have brought Jesus into premature conflict with Rome before His “hour had come.” Jesus solved this problem stating, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7). Christ often frustrated the Pharisees giving clever answers that thwarted their wicked intentions (Mat. 22:15-22; 21:21-27; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26).

  32. jkeller said:
    “Zeke, if I do recall correctly only fundie Muslims execute women for committing adultery. Are you Muslim, then?”
    No, I am a real Christian who agrees with God that justice is better than injustice. Most of the alleged “pro-lifers” you see posting here think that Jesus Christ is a better God than the one revealed in the Old Testament (which was also Jesus Christ who gave the Law to Moses) and they also believe that injustice is better than justice.
    They also believe apparently that justice can change in some way or that God is OK with responding to capital crimes in other ways today than in the past, i.e. prison. Yeah, prison, which does not work at all and even harms those who are put into the prison system with other criminals.
    These pro-lifers think more of Ghandi’s statement “An eye for an eye makes everyone blind” than they do of Jesus Christ’s statement where He commanded an “eye for an eye….life for life”. They think more higly of Ghandi’s blasphemous statement than they do of God’s command. Ghandi’s blasphemy sounds better to them than God’s command which is one of the pillars of criminal justice.
    They think Augustine has a better philosophy on criminal justice than God does since I often hear those who promote prisons referencing Augustine as their source for their argument.
    God never repealed the law against adultery. Many many nations and cultures have had execution as the punishment for the crime of adultery.
    I would much rather see 1,000 adulterers executed in the next year in the Chicago area than see 50,000 familes destroyed through adulterous affairs where the adulterers are allowed to live.
    The alleged pro-lifers who want to see adulterers live so they can go on to commit adultery with others and destroy more families think they are more merciful than God and myself. They aren’t. God is right and just. They are wrong and unjust.
    Its good to have those who are thinking of committing adultery to be fearful of being found out and executed. That’s a good fear. Just as its a good fear for those who are pondering raping a child to fear being found out and executed.
    There are Christians who want to see adultery re-criminalized and I am one of them. I am not nicer or more merciful than God.

  33. Zeke, I completely agree that adultery is a horrible thing, and evil. It can only bring hurt to others.
    Please understand this. You are forgetting that Jesus FULFILLED the law on the cross. He is the propitiation for our sins, for every sinner who comes to repentance.
    Zeke, if you truly believe every sinner should be punished according to the law, then have you EVER been disrespectful to your parents? Ever worked on a Sunday? According to the law, you are worthy of death.
    Do you believe that you need to sacrifice animals every year now in order to bring remission of sins? Don’t you know what the point of Jesus death was in the first place?

  34. Bethany asked:
    Okay, Zeke, what about the woman who had had 5 husbands, and Jesus told her about the water of life?”
    What about her?? Her story is an excellent proof that shows that a person CAN get married and divorced and re-married. She has had 5 husbands and the guy she was with when Jesus met her was not her husband at the time. Where in all this does Jesus mention adultery?
    Bethany asked:
    “What about Rehab, the harlot?”
    What about her!? Wait, don’t you mean Rahab instead of Rehab?
    Rahab has nothing to do with anything. Rahab was in Jericho (not in Israel) which was ruled by some pagan entity. That city was unjust and vile and a good government would have made sure her prostitution business was shut down immediately.

  35. Bethany asked:
    “Zeke, have any of your conclusions come directly from the Bible, or did you get them from Bob Enyart first?”
    My conclusions come from many hours of bible study and discussion with a lot of people over the years. It just so happens that the best article ever written on the death penalty that focuses on the NEW TESTAMENT SUPPORT for the death penalty is this one
    http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML

  36. Bethany said:
    “Zeke, I completely agree that adultery is a horrible thing, and evil. It can only bring hurt to others.
    And yet apparently, you have no problems with the adultery epidemic continuing here in the USA and in your community and among members of your church. At least, its not a big enough problem that you would ever recommend action be taken in order to bring an end to it, correct?
    Bethany thoughtlessly said:
    “Please understand this. You are forgetting that Jesus FULFILLED the law on the cross. He is the propitiation for our sins, for every sinner who comes to repentance.”
    That has NOTHING to do with the CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM!
    If someone claiming to be a member of the Body of Christ that goes to your church rapes and murders a young girl do you then tell the government in your area that they must not try him for murder and execute him because “Jesus FULFILLED the law on the cross” and “He is the propitiation for our sins”?
    Is that what you tell them Bethany!?
    I don’t care what a murderer’s beliefs are, whether they claim to be saved or not. Its irrelevant. They must be tried and upon conviction executed in order to bring about justice. And justice is better than injustice even if you and mk and anyone else thinks that injustice is better and results in more souls being saved (which is doesn’t).
    There was a wonderful discussion on re-criminalizing adultery that occured on the Stu Epperson show a while back. It would be very enlightening for you if you listened to it and attempted to give an intelligent response to it.
    http://webjay.org/myspace/QuinnOlinger/kgov

  37. Zeke thoughtlessly said: If someone claiming to be a member of the Body of Christ that goes to your church rapes and murders a young girl do you then tell the government in your area that they must not try him for murder and execute him because “Jesus FULFILLED the law on the cross” and “He is the propitiation for our sins”?
    You’ve just changed your own subject. In this country, the United States (not La La Land, in which you live in), adultery, while being a bad thing, is not a crime like rape, murder, and pedophilia. How in the world could you twist Bethany saying that she doesn’t support the execution of millions of adulterers to that she would support someone from her church raping and murdering a little girl? She was merely pointing out that you are obviously still holding to the archaic rules of ancient Judaism, made irrelevant by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and we shouldn’t go around stoning people to death just because something that they do offends us. How can you call yourself pro-life and be so blood thirsty?

  38. Adultery has been a capital crime for THOUSANDS OF YEARS and the only just punishment for adultery is STILL execution. If you think it some other punishment is just then give support from Scripture or give some kind of intelligent rationale to support your argument.
    That adultery has been de-criminalized in the USA is evidence of moral degression, not any kind of progression.
    God is right, everyone else is wrong. Acknowledging this is what it means to love and obey God.
    Jesus’ death on the cross did NOT de-criminalize all capital crimes as Bethany and others kind of claim (well, they don’t really know what they are claiming, but they are basicly saying as much).
    The apostle Paul supported the death penalty AFTER Jesus rose from the dead and ascended. So did Peter in Hebrews. So did John in the Book of Revelation. All of this support was given AFTER Jesus died and rose.

  39. Jkeller, thank you so much for your reply. I’m very much appreciative of your understanding what I was speaking of. You summed it up very well.
    And yet apparently, you have no problems with the adultery epidemic continuing here in the USA and in your community and among members of your church. At least, its not a big enough problem that you would ever recommend action be taken in order to bring an end to it, correct?
    My actions that I would take would be much different than yours, that is correct. That does not mean, however, that they are unBiblical. You like to distort scripture, take it out of context, and twist it to your liking (actually, not even your liking, it’s Bob Enyart’s liking- I don’t believe you actually do read the scriptures alone and come to your own conclusions as the Holy Spirit leads you). JK is right about one thing, you are bloodthirsty. And that is not a pro-life quality. I think of you as pro-death (which I realize you do not take as an insult).
    That has NOTHING to do with the CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM!
    If someone claiming to be a member of the Body of Christ that goes to your church rapes and murders a young girl do you then tell the government in your area that they must not try him for murder and execute him because “Jesus FULFILLED the law on the cross” and “He is the propitiation for our sins”?
    Is that what you tell them Bethany!?

    Good grief you are an angry little thing. Where did I ever indicate that I wouldn’t want the harshest of punishments for rapists? You simply assume…and you know what they say about people who assume.
    I don’t care what a murderer’s beliefs are, whether they claim to be saved or not. Its irrelevant. They must be tried and upon conviction executed in order to bring about justice.
    Where did I disagree with you about murderers?
    And justice is better than injustice even if you and mk and anyone else thinks that injustice is better and results in more souls being saved (which is doesn’t).
    Putting words in our mouths again, I see.
    There was a wonderful discussion on re-criminalizing adultery that occured on the Stu Epperson show a while back. It would be very enlightening for you if you listened to it and attempted to give an intelligent response to it.
    Not interested. I see, once again, it is from Bob Enyarts show. I’m starting to think Bob Enyart leads a cult. You people can’t think for yourselves.

  40. I asked: Bethany asked:
    Okay, Zeke, what about the woman who had had 5 husbands, and Jesus told her about the water of life?”

    Zeke replied: What about her?? Her story is an excellent proof that shows that a person CAN get married and divorced and re-married. She has had 5 husbands and the guy she was with when Jesus met her was not her husband at the time. Where in all this does Jesus mention adultery?
    Zeke, the woman was not with her husband when Jesus told her she had 5 husbands and the one she HAS now (what do you think that means) is not her husband. He told her to “go call your husband”, which means that he was not with her at the time.
    “the one thou hast now” suggests that she is involved with this sixth man in a new relationship, and yet they are unmarried. Also, why do you think Jesus would have referred to him as the womans “husband”, if He was not making the point about her relationship to him?
    15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
    Bethany asked:
    “What about Rehab, the harlot?”
    What about her!? Wait, don’t you mean Rahab instead of Rehab?

    Oh yes, Zeke, I made a spellyng errar. I am sooo incradibly sorly to have distoorbed your royayl highneses’ sentses. Dost thou hast another complaynt abowt somethieeng ellse irrellevant?
    Rahab has nothing to do with anything. Rahab was in Jericho (not in Israel) which was ruled by some pagan entity. That city was unjust and vile and a good government would have made sure her prostitution business was shut down immediately.
    Um, yes, Rahab has everything to do with everything. Rahab was a harlot, yet was saved by faith. Just as we all are sinners, yet are saved through faith. Your reply does nothing to answer my actual question. I asked, with this meaning: how does the fact that Rahab is looked on as a symbol of faith and a strong woman in the Bible who did a Godly thing help your case that God doesn’t care about people who commit moral sins, and wants them all to die a horrible, torturous death?
    P.S. How do you explain the fact that David committed a moral sin (murdering Uriah AND committing adultery with his wife), and yet he had the heart of God? Do you think that instead of being allowed to live, as God obviously allowed, he should have been tortured and killed?

  41. My conclusions come from many hours of bible study and discussion with a lot of people over the years. It just so happens that the best article ever written on the death penalty that focuses on the NEW TESTAMENT SUPPORT for the death penalty is this one
    http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML

    Makes it easier for you, when you have someone else to tell you what the Bible means, I suppose.

  42. Hey Nethany, if you really think that you know better than myself or Enyart then give a detailed response to the arguments given in the article.
    http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML
    I know you haven;t read it closely or paid attention to my previous explanations, otherwise you would recognize that God only stepped in to prevent the execution of 3 adulterers in Israel over a period of hundreds of years while still demanding that convicted adulterers be executed.
    You can’t remember who those 3 are, so I will refresh your memory. The 3 are David, Gomer and the woman caught in adultery in John 8. All the others God did not step in to prevent their being executed as He commanded they be punished.
    After God prevented David’s execution God still required that convicted adulterers be executed. Same with Gomer. Same with the woman caught in adultery in John 8.
    I am reposting the response I gave you the other day about the woman caught in adultery in John 8 for you to read and attempt to process one more time. Pay close attention to the parts that are underlined.
    ———————————————
    God Forgave Adulterers Before
    Gomer was an adulteress yet God forgave her (Hos. 3:1). Still, He demanded that His people obey His law (Hos. 4:6).
    King David committed adultery and murder (2 Sam. 11). Yet God forgave him (Psalm 32:1-5).
    It was a conscious decision on God’s part to not execute David. As Nathan said to David:
    As Nathan said to David:
    * “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However… by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme…” 2 Sam. 12:13
    Still, God’s law remained in effect (Ps. 1:2; 19:7; 78:1, 5-8; 89:30-32; 119).
    God forgave the New Testament adulterer just as He forgave Old Testament adulterers, in neither instance revoking His law. God has all authority to forgive the criminal and disregard temporal punishment. Contrariwise, Men must obey God and cannot ignore punishment.
    The Pharisees Wanted to TRAP Christ
    The Pharisees wanted to accuse Jesus of rebelling against the Roman Empire:
    * This [the Pharisees] said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. John 8:6
    Rome had revoked the Jews’ authority to put a criminal to death (John 18:31). A straight-forward answer to the Pharisees would have brought Jesus into premature conflict with Rome before His “hour had come.” Jesus solved this problem stating, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7). Christ often frustrated the Pharisees giving clever answers that thwarted their wicked intentions (Mat. 22:15-22; 21:21-27; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26).

  43. Bethany claimed without giving a shred of evidence to support her claim:
    “You like to distort scripture, take it out of context, and twist it to your liking (actually, not even your liking, it’s Bob Enyart’s liking- I don’t believe you actually do read the scriptures alone and come to your own conclusions as the Holy Spirit leads you).”
    If you can prove that I have twisted or misused just ONE scripture reference then I will give you a reward of $20 in the form of a gift certificate to a good restaurant in your area.
    If you can’t do so within a week from now then you owe me an apology.
    Bethany said:
    “JK is right about one thing, you are bloodthirsty. And that is not a pro-life quality. I think of you as pro-death (which I realize you do not take as an insult).”
    The opposite is in fact true. Because if the US government began to follow GOD’S CRIMINAL CODE when it comes to dealing with crimes such as murder, rape, kidnapping and adultery then the result would be a HUGE DECREASE in the amount of people who die from murder each year.
    In other words, I would rather have 20 murderers a year on average surely, swiftly, painfully and publicly executed in the Chicago area than to have 200 murders a year on average where those who promote misguided mercy allow those convicted murderers to live. Which number is greater? 20 or 200?
    Far fewer people are harmed if God’s response to murder is enforced. Same with rape, kidnapping and adultery. To believe otherwise is to say that God gave an inferior criminal code to the world and that YOU know better than God when it comes to punishing capital criminals.
    You don’t know better than God. You aren’t more merciful than God. You aren’t more just than God. When you decide who should and should not be executed and ignore God’s opinion in making your decision then you are playing God. You are playing God when you say that rapists should live and not be executed.

  44. Hey jkeller, the apostle Paul who got his doctrine and gospel message from Jesus Christ (which he referred to as “my gospel” and as “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery” and also as “the gospel of the uncircumcision” Rom 16:25; Gal 2:7), said that the law is STILL relevant in the world today.
    He made this clear in Romans 3 and especially in 1 Tim 1:8-11. Pay attention to the parts in BOLD.
    Romans 3:19-31
    Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth [as] a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or [is He] the God of the Jews only? [Is He] not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since [there is] one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? CERTAINLY NOT! ON THE CONTRARY, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
    1 Timothy 1:8-11
    But we know that THE LAW [IS] GOOD IF ONE USES IT LAWFULLY, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for [the] lawless and insubordinate, for [the] ungodly and for sinners, for [the] unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 ACCORDING TO THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF THE BLESSED GOD WHICH WAS COMMITTED TO MY TRUST.

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