Waxman to Stupak: “But we want to pay for abortions”
From Fox News, March 12:
The pro-life Democrat leading the charge in the House against passage of the Senate health insurance reform bill said Friday that a key committee chairman told him that Democrats want abortions to be paid by a federally-funded nationalized health insurance system.
Rep. Bart Stupak, D-MI, who’s been so far out in front of the debate about abortion coverage that he earned himself a primary challenger over it, said Rep. Henry Waxman [pictured right], D-CA, told him he wants to change current law that bans federal funding for abortion….
In an interview with Marquette, MI, radio station WKQS’ Mark & Walk morning show, Stupak described what he said was a conversation with Waxman about the Senate’s version of the health care overhaul. That bill contains weaker language than the House-passed legislation, which includes a provision crafted by Stupak to ensure insurance companies that participate in a national exchange don’t use federal money for abortion services.
“I gave him the language. He came back a little while later and said, ‘But we want to pay for abortions.’ I said, ‘Mr. Chairman, that’s – we disagree. We don’t do it now, we’re not going to start.’
“‘But we think should,'” Stupak said Waxman told him.
“I said, ‘Well, I’m sorry but the House has spoken. We had that debate. We won 240-190. You forced the vote, a vote we won fair and square and we’re not gonna, this is what it is. If you want to move health care keep current law,'” Stupak continued.
Here’s the clip…
Put this together with the National Review Online piece yesterday wherein Stupak said he’s been told abortion in healthcare would save money long-term by cutting off future welfare recipients…
and then put them together with Dick Durbin’s contention in July 2009 that DC should have public-funded abortions because “it is a fact that a disproportionately large number of African Americans seek abortion in America, not just in the District of Columbia, but all across the nation”…
and you get what pro-lifers have been saying all along: Current Democrat Party leadership is all about using abortion for eugenics of the poor and minority populations.
Hear Durbin’s racial charged comment for yourself.
[Photo via the New York Times]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Wow, finally they’re fessing up, huh?
“republicans don’t care about you after you’re born…”
Is what I hear a lot from liberals.
But it turns out that they just don’t even care about you before OR after you’re born.
This has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare at all.
It’s 100% grab for power – control over the population of the United States.
The progressive/liberal/humanists are willing to sacrifice their crackpipe dream of universal hellth scare in order to maintain the uninterrupted flow of innocent human blood.
They really want both, but when forced to make a choice they will never willingly give up the ‘choice’ for more dead babies.
yor bro ken
Have they no shame?
“wherein Stupak said he’s been told abortion in healthcare would save money long-term by cutting off future welfare recipients…”
I wish we knew who has been saying this. You occasionally see the opinion in internet comments, but not from public figures.
I say clean them all out in November.
Our movement needs to convince the Republican Party to go aggressively after the Black and Hispanic vote this year if we really want a devastating sweep of the Democratic Party pols. This year, only the Black and Hispanic vote can save them and we must deny them these voters.
The Democrats support destroying unborn Black and Hispanic children, they wage war against the Christian values of the minority communities and their economic and social agenda devastates those very same communities. I believe a sustatined and relentless campaign in the Black and Hispanic communities against the Democratic Party this year, by the unborn human rights movement, the Republican Party and others, would pay huge dividends in November.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is feeling left out, Jill!
“Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.”
I propose we abort Henry Waxman
Jasper, I understand what you meant, but “abort Henry Waxman’s career” would have been a better way to put it.
Can’t wait for the elections!
Mary,
Looks like the celestial choir is working for Congressman Stupak. But from what I hear some of the others who were standing insolidarity with him are unable to hear the choir.
We are in a great ongoing political, cultural and particularly spiritual war against the same general philosophies and demonic powers that drove the anti-Christ, anti-life and essentially anti-people tyrannical revolutions in the past, Communism and Fascism being two primary examples.
You nailed it Raymond.
What a battle it is!
Jill and Gerard pointed out a few days ago the biblical record of the slaughter of innocent children coinciding with the births of Moses and Jesus Christ. These events are widely considered to be demonstrations of satan’s wrath in response to the arrival of Irael’s deliverer from Egypt and Man’s Deliverer from sin.
It is not mere happenstance that in recent years the human race has embarked on the most evil, (incomprehensible really), genocide in the history of man.
Robert Johnston records and totals known abortions and estimates unreported abortions as follows: 1920 – 2008:
858,000,000 reported abortions worldwide
961,000,000 estimated abortions worldwide
That’s a lot of dead children.
Looking at the big picture, could there be any clearer indictment of the depravity of man than this?
God is Holy and Just. And He loved us so much He sacrificed His Precious Son, instructed Him to give Himself up, as a Lamb led to the slaughter, to shed His innocent Blood for our redemption.
He paid our debt.
And in the midst of His torture and death, He said, “Forgive them Father, they don’t know what they’re doing.”
We on the other hand would prefer not to be inconvenienced by a 9 month change to our career timetable…
so we just kill our kids.
This has echoes of Nazi Germany. “If you pass the Stupak amendment, more children will be born, and therefore it will cost us millions more. So children are to be MURDERED to save the state money.
A word of warning to all Catholic politicians:
Any Catholic who votes for taxpayer funded abortion incurs a sentence of automatic excommunication (canon 1398) of Catholic Canon Law.
Agreed John.
In addition, the Word of God says in no uncertain terms, ?”?But the cowardly, ?unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in ?the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Re 21:8
Furthermore, in our republic, I believe with Lou Engle that the bloodguilt extends to the voters that knowingly elected these purveyors of genocide as their representatives.
I totally agree with you Ed. It is going to take spiritual warfare to fight the demonic forces of death and the Demoncratic Party of Death.
Prolifer L,
We are going to fight this fight, tooth and nail, by the power of His Spirit, until either we win or Jesus comes back, one or the other.
For the sake of the defenseless children, the misinformed mothers, the dads who feel they have no recourse, no way to save their children from the abortionist’s razor-sharp, knife-tipped suction curette…
it is our duty.
Thanks Ed for your encouraging words. God’s blessings to you and your family.
Thank you Prolifer L for all you do for the least of these.
And may God richly bless, protect, and strengthen you for battle.
I’m definitely going to come over to your place when we get to Heaven and check out all the gold, silver and precious stones you’re laying up!
It will be interesting to see who’s got the bigger pile, you or Jill :D
“Jasper, I understand what you meant, but “abort Henry Waxman’s career” would have been a better way to put it.”
Yes, I agree, I was really just kidding…
Waxman is a fool — and that’s being charitable.
Barack Obama is first and firemost an abortion idealogue. It actual trump every other item on his agenda. Born Alive, partial birth, DNC, suction, RU486′ any way you can kill em’ with or without parental notification of minor being mutilated, not sure if they are human life when their killed, punished by children and grandchildren, mockery of Christianity and a louse and who is showing us he is even willing to sacrifice his MUST HAVE health care “reform” legislation rather than allow it to pass without government funding of abortion. He is a freaking nightmare and replenisher of the Devil’s sacrament…the blood of innocent children.
Wake up America! These freaks will not want to give expensive care to the elderly or the chronicly ill or babies in womb with “defects”. See how the pro-aborts want Obamacare to pass. If they were truly “pro-choice” they would vote against this legislation and wouldn’t want the govenment, or anybody else except them and their private doctor making determination of the care they would receive. If they were pro-choice then they wouldb want the Government to stay the hell out our health care decisions. But they are not pro-choice; no no no; They are pro-death and pro-abort. Money and power and the devaluation of the individuals human life is their agenda. They take control of our lives by taking control not just of our banks and our mortgages and our businesses and our money; but health care (which is the equivalent of taking control of our person) and gives them power to decide who should live and who should die. Sorry, you aren’t a good candidate for a bone marrow transplant cause the procedure costs $150k and it would likely only postpone your death six months to a year. So no expensive treatments for you. Would you like assistance killing yourself though?
If somebody has already posted this, I apologize – have been busy.
Congressman Stupak said yesterday that he is being ignored by Pelosi, etc. I hope this doesn’t mean she and Obama believe they have enough votes without him or his coalition – which they are trying so hard to destroy via threats, blackmail, and promising to take care of them if their constituents boot them out. She could just be bluffing – the woman is nearly 70 and far from stupid.
Call him, write him, let him know the rest of the country is not ignoring him, and help him keep his coalition together.
And when the cowards that cave buy into Pelosi/Obama’s promises of “trust us, we’ll take care of you”, I will LOL at their stupidity when they are told “Promise? What promise? We were just talking hypothetically. And hey, we’re really sorry you lost your seat, but that’s politics for you. We don’t really need you any more, but have a nice day”.
Henry Waxman is an evil and twisted man. What’s even more chilling is that the Black Community keeps voting in the very party that is orchestrating their destruction.
Waxman, Pelosi, Reed, and yes, the messiah himself, Obama, make David Duke look positively respectable.
We need a clean sweep in November, and then we need to craft a one-page rider to the next budget which rescinds the Obamacare they are going to pass through reconciliation.
Enough already!
It is odd, some of the comments. It is as if abortion is illegal now, and if this passes, abortion will be legal. I don’t think God will say “well yes, let’s bless America on a technicality because at least their proud citizens don’t really pay for abortions, they just allow people to pay for it themselves”.
I think it is a great cause to expand healthcare and work to push down health care costs. There’s a reason that abortion clinics are put in poor neighborhoods. It is because poor people are the ones statistically that feel that this is their only choice. Doing anything we can to move folks out of poverty will affect abortion rates.
But yes – as long as YOU folks don’t have to pay for it, then you sleep with a smile on your face. I don’t get it.
“I don’t get it.”
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 14, 2010 8:21 AM
Definitely.
RINO,
You have NOT been getting it for a long, long, time.
The only people I have have ever observed sleeping with a smile on their face are those whose cold lifeless body has been laid in a coffin.
If you want less of anything then quit subsidizing it. It is a time proven axiom.
It is not ‘primarily’ about the money.
It is about reducing the number of innocent pre-natal humans who are being murdered.
But people of ‘conscience’ do object to the money that has been ‘TAKEN’ from them being used to not only fund the murders of prenatal children, but to finance the political campaigns of those who perpetuate the barbarity.
yor bro ken
Henry Waxman did not appear to be talking about repealing the Hyde amendment. He does seems to be saying that Congress should dump the Stupak amendment. There’s a difference there. In other words, Waxman is saying, we don’t want a ban on indirect funding of abortion medicine (assuming he is OK with the current Hyde amendment that bans direct funding).
And so Stupak then runs to Fox News and claims that Waxman said he wants to start direct funding of abortion. I don’t think that’s what Waxman said (and remember this is Stupak’s side of the story – not exactly a trustworthy source).
Or I’ll take this further. Let’s assume that when Waxman said ‘well I think we should,’ he DID mean direct federal funding. That would be a moot point because of the Hyde amendment. So Waxman’s opinion is meaningless here. Hyde isn’t going to be repealed, ever. It’s been in the books for 21 years and no Democrat would dare take it down.
And Waxman is a congressman. It would a very powerful Senator with 40 senators behind him to launch a campaign to repeal Hyde. That’s not happening. The only senator who perhaps had that kind of power was Ted Kennedy. He never tried it.
So this is much ado about nothing.
Barack Obama is first and firemost an abortion idealogue [sic].
Oh how I wish. Bill Clinton was a far greater defender of legal abortion than Obama ever will be. Ever heard of the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act?
Obama voting against a redundant homicide law does not make him a monster. He is no friend to the providers in this country who risk their lives every day delivering good, necessary family planning medicine. He criticized both sides when Dr. Tiller was murdered. That is no pro-abort president.
President Richards would have pressed congress to make the murder of a any doctor a federal crime. Now that would have been more like it.
“But we want to pay for abortions.”
NO, you don’t!
You want everyone else to pay for them, just like you want everyone else to endure your ‘hellth scare’ while you continue to enjoy your ‘more than equal’ medical treatment subsidized by everyone else.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 11:36 AM
“I don’t think that’s what Waxman said (and remember this is Stupak’s side of the story – not exactly a trustworthy source).”
————————————————–
Dhalin’,
When you are confronted with a room full of liars, what objective standard do you use to determine who is the the least dishonest/most accomplished liar?
yor bro ken
We need a clean sweep in November, and then we need to craft a one-page rider to the next budget which rescinds the Obamacare they are going to pass through reconciliation.
Enough already!
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at March 14, 2010 5:28 AM
As long as the Dems have 40 votes Senate they can block anything a Republican majority wants to do. Anything.
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 11:43 AM
Do you go to some kind of specialized training in progressive/liberal/humanist apologetics and/or was the ‘gift’ imparted to you by the ordination of wiccans and/or shaking hands with the devil?
B.O., and his accomplices, before during and after fact, has put all his energy and effort behind ‘hellth scare’.
But ‘hellth scare’ is merely a means to an end and to B.O. the end is worth more than all the means.
The end is not about ‘universal health care’.
It is about control.
The progressive/liberal/humanist democRATS have their eyes set on the prize of the equivalent of a ‘thousand year Reich’ of a socialistic utopia.
If they are successful in perpetrating this scam it will almost impossible to reverse and it will result in a loss of freedom of freedom and prosperity for succeding generations.
yor bro ken
“Or I’ll take this further. Let’s assume that when Waxman said ‘well I think we should,’ he DID mean direct federal funding. That would be a moot point because of the Hyde amendment. So Waxman’s opinion is meaningless here. Hyde isn’t going to be repealed, ever. It’s been in the books for 21 years and no Democrat would dare take it down.”
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 11:36 AM
This is so stupendously wrong that you are either completely ignorant of how the Hyde amendment actually works or you are deliberately repeating a lie. Start with wikipedia, then read the text of the amendment even. I’ll even bold the relevant bits. “SEC. 507. (a) None of the funds appropriated in this Act, and none of the funds in any trust fund to which funds are appropriated in this Act, shall be expended for any abortion.”
Hyde covers money for the Health and Human Services Appropriations budget. And nothing else. There are other, similar strictures for other programs. But since the money for Obamacare would come from a budget other than the Health and Human Services budget, Hyde does not and can not cover it. That line is so incredibly old it’s actually growing mushrooms.
Go Keli Hu!
yor bro ken
That line is so incredibly old it’s actually growing mushrooms.
So wait, the biggest Federal victory your side had post Roe v. Wade is actually not a victory? That’s an interesting spin. Because even senators who helped Hyde pass his amendment pat themselves on the back for that federal law. It is the law that prevents federal funding of abortion.
You should embrace that victory, since all the talk and noise about criminalizing abortion for the last 37 years never amounted to anything besides that law!
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 1:09 PM
You should embrace that victory, since all the talk and noise about criminalizing abortion for the last 37 years never amounted to anything besides that law!
—————————————————–
Dhallin’
So how is the having first Irish/Kenyan president in the nations history working out for you, besides having the first Irish/Kenyan president in our nation’s history?
Has the sea stopped it’s rise?
Wait it has!
Global warmimg has been reversed, but the economy continues to fall.
I guess one messiah can only do so much.
yor bro ken
kbhvac: The end is not about ‘universal health care’. It is about control. The progressive/liberal/humanist democRATS have their eyes set on the prize of the equivalent of a ‘thousand year Reich’ of a socialistic utopia.
Now that’s just Black Helicopter talk. Under your definition, FDR and Johnson were secret communists, whose Social Security and Medicare inventions were designed to enslave us, not prevent millions of elderly people from falling into poverty and early death.
While I totally disagree with the direction Obama has taken with healthcare reform (mainly because he chose not to direct Congress, but rather let them build a bloated beast of a bill), I have to argue that his heart in the right place. He wants to see healthcare costs take-up a smaller percentage of our GDP. If they don’t, our country’s future as a prosperous nations is gone.
My opinion on this in my Liberal school of thought is to not think of healthcare as a right or a privilege, but rather a necessity – like a public utility. And if we approach it that way, we can have a system that works for everyone.
Take the German system, for example. The government doesn’t own the hospitals like the do in the UK (which conservative politician built the NHS, again?). Rather, the German government strictly regulates health insurance companies as utilities. They are required to turn over all their profits to a fund which sponsors all those who don’t work (children, elderly, unemployed, etc.) to get coverage. Every employer must pay into the fund. Every worker must pay into the fund, even if they are wealthy and want to obtain their healthcare out-of-pocket (which is rare, since who would refuse a discount on health care coverage? Even the wealthy like to save money).
In the end, everyone wins. The private sector has every German citizen as a customer. Costs are controlled, but the volume of customers preserves both the companies and their employees jobs. The government stays out of healthcare management, besides the usual required practice and medicine regulations. And the system is sustainable. Ours is not.
Most in Congress would rather punt the problem to the next generation, rather than tackle the problem now. Letting crises fester (especially education and the environment) will be our downfall.
*non-admission of dead wrongness about the Hyde amendment*
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 1:09 PM
Did I say I wasn’t happy about it? No, I love the Hyde amendment. You said Hyde prevents federal funding for abortions in all cases. You’re still saying it’s a law, which is another flavor of absolutely wrong you’ve got going on. But we’ll leave that one to the side for the moment.
The fact that the Hyde amendment is an amazing and wonderful piece of legislation does not mean that it can magically jump out of the HHS budget legislation covered in glitter and sparkles and affix itself to every other piece of legislation to go through Congress on the power of Sheer Awesomesauce™!!! America does not work that way. One amendment to one budget does not–as you contend it does–put constraints on the budgets of other programs. Hyde does not cover Obamacare because the budget it affects is a different budget. They are separated one from the other and do not touch.
So however awesome or victorious or whatever that you want to call Hyde for pro-lifers, it has no effect on Obamacare.
Which was the point you tried to make.
And you are wrong.
Dhalgren,
Your deception does not work on me or on Bart Stupak. Do you know what FOCA is? Obama and his pro-abort minions have, and continue to express their desire to pass FOCA which would repeal Hyde and any other restrictions currently placed on abortion. And they don’t want the Stupak language cause it would explicitly deny government funding of abortion. But without the Stupak amendment they can use their twisted logic and shell games with the money to fund Planned Parenthood abortuaries throughout the US and even if somebody objected on grounds that it violates the Hyde amendment the pro-aborts would obfuscate and tie up the legislation in courts like they have been doing with the Illinois Parental Notice of Abortion Act 1995 which unanimously passed the Illinois Assembly. The act reads as follows:
Sec. 5. Legislative findings and purpose. The General Assembly finds that notification of a family member as defined in this Act is in the best interest of an unemancipated minor, and the General Assembly’s purpose in enacting this parental notice law is to further and protect the best interests of an unemancipated minor. The medical, emotional, and psychological consequences of abortion are sometimes serious and long?lasting, and immature minors often lack the ability to make fully informed choices that consider both the immediate and long?range consequences. Parental consultation is usually in the best interest of the minor and is desirable since the capacity to become pregnant and the capacity for mature judgment concerning the wisdom of an abortion are not necessarily related.
But to this day (over 15 years later) it has not been enforceable because pro-aborts like Obama and Planned Parenthood and pro-abort judges have tied it up in the courts. And their plan is to use the same deceptions and tactics to direct the public funds collected to pay for health care to spread Planned Parenthood abortuaries throughout the US. If the Stupak amendment were in the bill, abortuary funding would be explicitly denied. Without the Stupak amendment, Planned Parenthood abortuaries would be built and abortionists would be paid using the mandated health care taxes that would fund Obamacare. And you Dhalren are either a liar or an fool or both to say “It’s (the Hyde amendment)been in the books for 21 years and no Democrat would dare take it down. I would tell you which I think you are but it would get deleted by the moderators.
As a libertarian, I’ve always been pro-choice, but until fairly recently I had opposed government funding of abortions, on the grounds that the taxpayer should not be forced to pay for the mistakes of others. Then it occurred to me that, with all of the garbage “social welfare” programs running in this country, I’m going to be paying for every crack baby that minority welfare mothers squeeze out anyway, and so I did a little cost-benefit analysis and realized that a $400, one-time abortion procedure is a hell of a lot cheaper than the hundreds of thousands of dollars that every single one of these leeches will cost the system over the course of their lives, both from the social programs and from the costs incurred by the criminal justice system when these human animals inevitably turn to crime. The government funding of abortions is the most fiscally responsible thing that could ever possibly come out of this healthcare bill.
As long as the Dems have 40 votes Senate they can block anything a Republican majority wants to do. Anything.
Posted by: Hal at March 14, 2010 12:18 PM
Thank you for saying that.
That is the reason we have the Patriot Act, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan war, Guantanamo, etc.
Because the Democrats support those. They could block them, but they don’t. They support them.
Health care bill is held up by Democrats.
There can be no real healthcare reform because the number and percentage of people who do not pay is growing and will continue to grow. The middle class is shrinking and retiring. The poor are growing. The poor and the retired do not pay for healthcare but they consume. Hence the intractable structure of rising cost to those who actually pay.
As a libertarian, you should be a big supporter of individual freedoms and rights, especially as stated by the founders of this country. The first right they mentioned is the right to LIFE. Think about that one a little more before you go around affixing dollar figures to the heads of those you deem less worthy of that right to life. Ugh. Who is more disgusting…the crack baby, or the person who can look at another person and say “You should be dead. You’re not worth the money.”? I think I have an idea…
Instead of fretting over the nonexistant rights of a fetus, how about we worry about the rights of the average, decent American to walk down Main Street in his or her town without getting robbed by the product of some welfare mother? I suspect that you’ve been brainwashed by the Catholic Church, which opposes abortion not out of a desire to “protect unborn life” or some other nonsense, but because it does want America to become a 3rd world hellhole like Mexico; a poor, brown population that is easy to control. The “social justice” garbage that this criminal organization pushes is directly related to this; look how badly they want “amnesty” for illegals.
You disgust me, Theodore.
I hate to say that about anyone- I want to be understanding, but people like you make that very difficult. Individuals on welfare are not evil or dumb. Welfare mothers are no different from mothers who do not use welfare. You’re a classist, narrow-minded bigot.
Don’t you dare treat immigrants, the impoverished, or non-white that way- it’s sick, racist, and ignorant. You ARE ignorant.
That Waxman guy makes me want to throw up.
“As long as the Dems have 40 votes Senate they can block anything a Republican majority wants to do. Anything.”
Actually Hal, anything passed under reconciliation with its 51 vote requirement can be undone via the same mechanism. Thus, the Dems can have 49 votes and get their clocks cleaned.
And they will.
Theodore K at March 14, 2010 2:26 PM
Theodore,
You were poorly named. You’re anything but “God Lover”.
When I listen to the hatred and vitriol that spews from garbage-mouths such as yours, I seriously begin to reconsider my opposition to abortion in all circumstances.
Get well soon.
Theodore, you are not a libertarian but a “libertarian” with sociopathic tendencies.
I have been a supporter of unborn human rights for 38 years and a libertarian for 30 years and I can assure you that abortionists such as yourself are NOT libertarians.
Libertarians respect basic human rights, the inalienable rights which all human beings have by virtue of our nature, the most basic of which is the right to life itself, the right to live a full human lifespan.
The cruelty and ignorance of your comments are beyond belief. You believe millions of poor children should be exterminated to make life easier for those already born. This is inhuman and anti-libertarian.
The Catholic Church is not criminal. However, every organization advocating unlimited violence against human beings in the unborn stage (or later stages) is criminal.
Why would you care what happens to anybody born when we can all be destroyed and have our entire lifespans taken from us?
Vannah:
“You’re a classist, narrow-minded bigot.”
You give Theodore way too much credit Vannah. That’s more sophistication than he actually has.
He’s a frightened little man, peering from behind the curtains in his home, terrified of anyone who doesn’t look like him or go to his church. Folks such as Theodore can’t be persuaded by reason.
As the old Negro spiritual goes, you have to be carefully taught how to hate.
Such hatred is bred in the bone and comes out in the man. It becomes part of the prism that we all use to filter the incoming reality of the world. That prism stands between the real world and our perceptions of that reality. To the extent that we yield to fear, that fear morphs over time into anger and hatred.
That distorts the lens of perception and shapes our response to the world, which is why Jesus placed such a premium on forgiveness.
The question for Theodore is what is it of which he is so afraid and resentful? It isn’t the brown-skinned people or the Bishops. It’s deeper than all of that. It’s what he sees in the mirror each day, or more accurately, what he doesn’t see in the mirror each day.
He can’t tolerate blaming himself or his family who failed him, so he looks for others to point the finger at. But, when all is said and done, Theodore need only look in the mirror. The answers to his fears and the key to his growth are all right there.
You, sirs and madam, are what’s wrong with America today. You would indulge the very forces that conspire to destroy the Republic, all out of some misplaced sense of altruism that you have been conditioned to internalize by society, the education system, and religion. We are on the cusp of becoming the United States of Detroit, a once-great nation being subjugated by our own minority immigrant populations who do not share in or respect the collective work ethic and ideals that are the bedrock of the country. I made it a point to place special emphasis on the welfare mothers because they are the very living embodiment of everything that has gone wrong in America over the last 100 years; they contribute nothing and their only function is to consume, consume, consume, like the parasites that they are. The other major offender is the illegal alien, who, like the welfare mother, cares only about the country to the extent that it can greedily exploit our social support structures, and, again, contributes nothing in return. You bandy about your numbers of minority abortion statistics as if they are a bad thing; I ask you, how much worse would this country look with 30 million additional blacks and Hispanics? How many more Camden, New Jerseys and South-Central LA’s would there be? And this is what the Catholic Church wants. This super-national, criminal organization that has aided and abetted cultural destruction across the globe is more harmful than any number of Islamic Jihadis could ever hope to be.
Posted by: Theodore K at March 14, 2010 5:15 PM
And you have the audacity to say that we are what’s wrong with America today? I really hope you’re a troll. It’d be so fantastically depressing if you actually mean all of that hate.
Theodore,
Being a faithful Catholic and a scientist, allow me to address your concerns, which are not altogether unfounded.
You and I actually have wide agreement on the corrosive effects of a welfare system that has become a way of life for generations of not only Blacks and Hispanics, but an equal number of poor Caucasians as well. These are less noticeable as they are spread out over vast stretches of rural countryside.
Where we differ is in how we regard these people, and that’s where my Catholic Christian Faith comes in. They are not parasites. They are a people who have been railroaded to a great extent by screaming liberals. They have lost hope, which is essential to self-improvement, to engaging in at least 12, if not 16 years or more of delaying gratification in order to pursue an education.
When I take all of my years in school and add them: 1 Yr. Kindergarden, 12 years elementary and secondary ed, 6 years of undergrad in a double-major, 1 year seminary, 3 years post-bac pre-science, 2 years MS degree, 10 years M.Phil and Ph.D., 1 year post-doctoral fellowship, that comes out to 36 years of education. I worked full time while I pursued my college and graduate degrees full time.
What sustained me in all of that was hope in a future that would reward me. What sustained me in all of that was a belief in myself, sometimes shaken to its core when the going got tough with studies. What sustained me was the belief, taught to me by my Church that God had a future for me in His grace, and I needed to cooperate with that grace in order to assume my rightful role.
I worked with homeless minority children in NY’s Times Square for seven long years. When a child is born to a teen mother who is illiterate, who never knew his/her father, whose mother tells her the world is a terrible place and there is no hope, it is almost an insurmountable challenge to overcome.
Yet the answer is not abortion or sterilization. If the young man who impregnates the girl wants to marry her, they become ineligible for many social service benefits. The system is rigged to reward promiscuity and irresponsibility.
When I worked in Times Square, NYC welfare would pay less that $400 in welfare benefits for renting an apartment. Even in NYC slums that wasn’t enough. However, if one was homeless and unable to secure housing, the city would pay $1,600/month to a roach and vermin-infested welfare hotel for a single room with a hotplate for cooking and a communal bathroom in the hall.
Liberals at their eugenic best.
My Church sees the equal dignity of all persons. It abhors the squalor and dead-end of welfare systems that trap people in multi-generational cycles of dependency which grinds dignity to dust. We are agreed on hating the system. You need to stop hating those trapped by it.
You needn’t go down the path of eugenics when meaningful welfare reform, aimed at effecting real educational and vocational objectives, can move people off of the dole and make of them productive tax-paying citizens. Most hate their circumstances, but just don’t see a way out.
Stop it with your hatred! Do something positive and mentor a Black, fatherless boy. Show him how to be a real man. I’m not telling you to do anything that I didn’t for seven years in Times Square, and for 16 years in teaching college students, many of whom were minorities.
It’s easy to piss and moan, to cast aspersions on those who live without hope. But the greater burden is on you who proclaim a vision of authentic civic responsibility. To sit and piss and moan as you do makes YOU the lazy wretch. At least you can do something positive for society, like becoming a mentor.
Death is the easy answer for lazy people. In advocating it for others, you show yourself to be lazier and more hopeless than those whom you excoriate.
I agree with you. No more Detroits and Camdens. Now get off of your fat @$$ and do something worthwhile about it that respects these people’s dignity.
Posted by: Theodore K at March 14, 2010 2:26 PM
——
Now that you’ve made that claim, what solid credible evidence do you have to back it?
We’re expecting citations from credible sources, with specifics that speak to the claims you are making.
Thanks Gerard.
Abortion and Euthanasia are NOT HEALTH CARE!
Here’s what our forefathers said about health care: “Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.”
Theodore K, the centerpiece of libertarian ethics is the Non-Aggression Axiom, which states that we should shun the initiation of force or fraud.
Tell me, how is abortion NOT aggression against an innocent preborn human being?
Theodore K:
If you were truly a Libertarian you would realize that the government giving billions to the big banks is a far, far greater waste of money than any welfare, food stamp, or poverty assistance program.
As a former Lehman Brothers employee, I know first-hand what costs our country the most when it comes to money wasted.
Nothing positive ever comes from demonizing the weak and the poor. It worked for Reagan, but for most people, it makes them look shallow and mean-spirited. Get mad at the big guys, not the little people.
Theodore, I agree with Vannah, you are sickening.
Perhaps you would be more comfortable over at stormfront.org.
Truthseeker: FOCA is one of many false promises Obama made to get elected (such as closing Gitmo, or trashing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell). He betrayed me and a lot of other Democrats and independents with that kind of talk and no action.
I don’t think he has mentioned FOCA since 2008. Check Lexis-Nexis.
But let’s be honest. Obama revived sponsorship of FOCA as a freshman senator in 2006, I believe. The original FOCA bill dates back to 1993, when Democrats saw a potential opening to get it passed under Clinton. But it never made it out of committee. And honestly, I don’t think we need FOCA if ‘blue’ states like New York are passing ‘preemptive’ laws that formally state the parameters of legal abortion, and that only a SP decision or Federal ban can override it.
And you don’t have to take my word for it. Look how the National Abortion Federation (NAF) has distanced themselves from Obama. They have praised him for two predictable actions: lifting the global gag rule and lifting the DC abortion ban. Not exactly aggressive, unpredictable pro-abort activity. NAF hasn’t mentioned Obama since December 2009. And I consider NAF, not PP, the head authority on abortion in the USA.
Dhalgren,
Some specific quotes from Reagan demonizing the weak and poor.
Those who argue that abortion is a private matter in which government has no business cannot then insist that federal funds be used to pay for it.
Gerard,
Amen.
Theodore,
As a native of the city of Detroit, my mother was also born there, let me confuse you with some facts.
Detroit was a thriving city consisting of communities of every race, ethncity, and religion.
We walked through each other’s communities without fear. We sat next to each other in schools, our teachers were black, Jewish, and white, and were always treated with respect. No one cared what kind of home we came from, and mine was certainly not idyllic, you sat in class and treated the teacher with respect.
Whether a police officer was black or white he/she was respected as an authority figure.
Democrats and liberals began their rule of the city and it went down the crapper. Urban renewal, also dubbed “Negro removal” destroyed low income and minority neighborhoods and communities, forcing people into the public warehouses called housing projects. Forced busing that was based on the patronizing and racist notion that black children couldn’t learn without the presence of white children, aka attempted social engineering, destroyed parental involvement in local schools, caused community upheavel and generated racial animosity and resentment. BTW, black parents liked forced busing no better than white parents, even though black children supposedly “benefitted”. “Anti-poverty” programs, another useless government boondoggle, destroyed families and created dependency. Also, let’s not forget high taxes, the staple of liberals.
The city is now a sinkhole after years of liberal social policies.
As for illegal aliens, I have no issue with the race, religion or ethnicity of LEGAL aliens. I want the illegal ones kept out. Just look how other countries handle those who try to illegally cross their borders.
37 years of legal abortion has failed miserably to solve social problems and will continue to do so.
Oh yes,
I forgot to mention the liberal Democrat solution to the problems like those of Detroit. Tax payer funded abortion!
We’ve seen their genius at work for the past 50 years in Detroit.
Posted by: Theodore K at March 14, 2010 2:26 PM
…”but because it [church] does want America to become a 3rd world hellhole like Mexico; a poor, brown population that is easy to control. The “social justice” garbage that this criminal organization pushes is directly related to this; look how badly they want “amnesty” for illegals.”
————————————————–
TheoderousKKK,
Wow.
It has been a long time since I have crossed paths with dogmatic white supremecist like you.
Which flag do you prefer?
The one with the ‘stars and bars’ or the one with the ‘swastika’?
You are not a libertarian except in your own fertile [as in heavily dunged] imagination.
From where do your hail, Jasper or Vidor, Texas or Couer d’alene, Idaho?
Are you just a shill for Jerry Springer or are you the real ‘cross burnin’ deal?
Are you merely a rank and file klanner or is you cloaked and robed like a Grand Wizard?
Please send us photos of you and your brethren exchanging the secret handshake and flashing the secret signs.
Would you rather be dead than red or white than right?
NOT yor bro ken
Ken,
I’ve come to the realization that you and I need to overcome our inhibitions and learn to say what’s on our minds. We also need to learn how to stop sugar-coating the truth. ;-)
Yor bro Gerry (doesn’t work as well with my name)
mary:
Two words we can thank Reagan for:
Welfare Queen
We know what he was doing. He was throwing red meat to the working class, getting them to believe in the myth. It worked. he got blue collar middle America to elect him, and then he went to work weakening their unions. cutting income taxes for the wealthy, and showing other politicians how they can completely ignore the poor (what Linden Johnson was trying to make a primary domestic policy issue – nowadays the poor are almost never discussed in national politics).
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 14, 2010 1:29 PM
“While I totally disagree with the direction Obama has taken with healthcare reform (mainly because he chose not to direct Congress, but rather let them build a bloated beast of a bill), I have to argue that his [B.O.’s] heart in the right place.”
[It is not B.O.’s heart with which I am concerned, but his grasping hand and sticky fingers reaching into mine and my neighbor’s wallets. Like B.O. and his fellow progressive/liberal/humanists, you mistakenly believe you not only have a right, but an entitlement, to my wealth.]
“Take the German system,
[No, I refuse to be foreced to take the German or any other ‘system’]
for example. The government doesn’t own the hospitals like the do in the UK (which conservative politician built the NHS, again?).”
“Rather, the German government ‘STRICTLY REGULATES’ health insurance companies as utilities.”
[I believe this falls under the definition of ‘fascism’.]
“They are
‘REQUIRED’ to turn over ALL THEIR PROFITS
to a fund which sponsors all those who don’t work (children, elderly, unemployed, etc.) to get coverage.”
[This falls under the definiton of socialism or communism.]
Every employer MUST pay into the fund.
Every worker MUST pay into the fund,
even if they are wealthy and want to obtain their healthcare out-of-pocket (which is rare, since who would refuse a discount on health care coverage? Even the wealthy like to save money).
[I believe this falls under definition of totalitarianism.]
In the end, everyone wins.
[In the end everyone ‘loses’ their liberty to determine for themselves how they will handle their own health care.]
What is there about ‘freedom’ that you do not get?
If the German system is so ‘excellent’ then why does the German government have to FORCE it’s citizens to particpate as in ‘MUST’?
Dhalgren,
You should make an extended visit to the ‘workers paradise’ of Cuba.
Stay long enough to learn the language and then visit with some of the regular people and ask them which system they would prefer, Germany’s or America’s.
Only the doctrinaire members of the communist party would choose Germany and if they were able to answer the question from the saftey and liberty of American soil most of them would defect from the Cuban system in a heartbeat.
yor bro ken
Gerard,
I want you to know I really do respect your academic achievements and your ‘word smithing’.
Both you and Chris have a gift of communicating that I value.
I even value HAL’s gifts of brevity and self control even if I disagree with his conclusions and opinions.
If I have a gift it is discerning the motivation behind the missives.
But sometimes I mis-understand or just plain miss the mark.
I see no value in trying to engage in civil conversation with un-civilized people.
Especially people who at their heart are relatvists.
It is like attempting to herd cats or corner a serpent in a round room.
If the observations are correct is it still an ad hominen attack? Especially if the observations go directly to the heart of the opponent.
yor bro ken
‘welfare queen’
I believe Ronald Reagan may have been referring to homosexual U. S. Congressman Barney Frank’s live in boy toy, Steve Gobie, who ran a male escort service from Franks apartment that was paid for by American taxpayers.
yor bro ken
Dhalgren,
LOL. You’ll have to do better than “Welfare Queen”. I’m old enough to remember the term long before Reagan used it.
Come on, some quotes from Reagan demonizing the poor and weak.
Lyndon Johnson was trying to make poverty a domestic policy discussion? Oh yes he had good intentions with his “War on Poverty” debacle. Ever hear what the road to hell is paved with? After trillions spent we still have poverty. Another example of liberal good intentions at work.
Ken,
Come onnnn, don’t you recall that Barney had no knowledge of a prostitution ring being operated from his apartment.
Oh and Ken, speaking of Cuba, didn’t Castro import Spanish doctors to care for him? I’m sure all Cuban citizens have that same option when they need medical care.
Ever wonder how many equally morbidly obese as himself Cubans Michael Moore encountered when making his documentary praising Cuban health care?
kbhvac wrote:
“Rather, the German government ‘STRICTLY REGULATES’ health insurance companies as utilities.”
[I believe this falls under the definition of ‘fascism’.]
Well it would be closer to fascism, if the German government had a Minister of Health who wore an army uniform, and the government got in-between doctors and patients, but they don’t. You read the part of my argument that stated that Germany leaves healthcare operations and billing to the private sector. The only catch is that the private sector is forbidden from screwing the little people. Now that’s radical.
Take a look at this list. Germany has a healthy capitalist private sector. But when it comes to health insurance, the right to earn a profit is sacrificed for the health, productivity, and security of the nation.
And if you think such a structure doesn’t exist in the USA, take a look at your local gas or electric company. They are utilities. They can make a profit, sure. But they are also responsible to ensure that the electricity stays on, and that nothing blows up. They are required to spend a ton of money on maintenance and infrastructure improvements. They are held accountable by the government when they fail. They are strictly regulated because they provide a necessary service vital to the day-to-day function of this country,
Well, Germany sees healthcare as necessary to every living citizen just like electricity and clean water.
And the results? A lighter healthcare cost burden on both businesses and individuals. 100% healthcare coverage of all citizens (a patriotic goal we should want to achieve, not get upset about). A lower birth mortality rate. A higher life expectancy rate (Germany is 23rd, we’re 38th).
All of this out of the philosophy that healthcare is a necessity / utility. Fascist, indeed.
Dhalgren, from whence do you get your expertise on the German health care system? Ever been to a doc in Germany? Know any Germans who consider their tax burden for health care “light?”
Ken,
You sell yourself short. You are a consummate communicator that should have been writing Ronald Reagan’s material.
My friends read my posts and call to tell me to go for assertiveness training. ;-)
What else do you expect from a kid born and raised in Brooklyn NY? In Brooklyn, this trait is common. It serves us well in the pro-life community.
God Bless,
Gerry
I don’t know anything about Germany’s health care system, but I’ve heard several horror stories about its education system. There have been refugees to the U.S. because of its totalitarianism. That’s a laugh–until you realize that the United States are heaven, not because of their public school system but precisely in spite of it–because in the United States you may educate your own children in the way that you see fit, without 10 or 20 policemen literally coming to your house and dragging them away crying, for months or more.
Ken… hey, please… my parents live in ID and are definitely NOT racist. Theodore would be no more welcome there than he is on this site.
But I agree with everything else you said… T, go away. The world doesn’t need such narrow-minded fearmongering bigotry.
When I happened across this blog not only did I realize that most of the people here have no idea what is going on in other countries but also have really no understanding or care for anyone but themselves. The initial American movement for freedom was only possible through brotherhood and a sense of care for your fellow American. How can one expect to survive in a society where it is every man for himself? Nothing even our independence was achieved every man alone, each for himself. Why does the House and Senate deserve Government funded health care and the American People do not? As far as Abortion is concerned if we live in a religion friendly based Government country then why are we applying Judo-Christian-Muslim law to our legislation? Is plastic surgery paid for in the bill? I think not and just like abortion if it is not imperative for the life of the victim then it should be up to the person. Universal heath care in countries like France, and Germany have similar clauses.