Newsweek: Pro-aborts worry about next generation
Newsweek posted an interesting piece on April 16, “Remember Roe!”, with the byline, “How can the next generation defend abortion rights when they don’t think abortion rights need defending?”
How ironic. As I commented to a millennial who wrote an article at RH Reality Check attempting to refute Newsweek, “Elise, just one question: What in the world draws you to join a movement that tried every way possible to ensure your mother could kill you, unrestrained by any law or regulation whatsoever?”…
The entire Newsweek article was interesting, albeit slanted left. For instance the author, when assessing why young people aren’t enthusiastic about legalized abortion, failed to note that one reason may be they themselves are abortion survivors, which obviously changes the dynamic.
I’ve pulled several key excerpts…
When the history of the 21st century is written, March 21, 2010, will go down as the day Congress cleared the way for health-care reform. Yet for those in the abortion-rights community, March 21 will mark a completely different turning point: the day when they became acutely aware of their waning influence in Washington….
Rep. Bart Stupak pressed for stringent abortion restrictions. While Stupak’s desired language did not ultimately survive, the final health-care law was more than a psychological setback: it requires separate payments for abortion coverage on the public exchange. The strict accounting rules could well prove so onerous that insurers drop abortion coverage altogether.
So if Democrats won’t stand strong for abortion rights, who will? The predicament weighed particularly heavily on NARAL….
NARAL president Nancy Keenan had grown fearful about the future of her movement even before the health-care debate. Keenan considers herself part of the “postmenopausal militia,” a generation of baby-boomer activists now well into their 50s….
Today they still run the major abortion-rights groups, including NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and the National Organization for Women….
[W]hat worries Keenan is that she just doesn’t see a passion among the post-Roe generation – at least, not among those on her side.
This past January, when Keenan’s train pulled into Washington’s Union Station… she was greeted by a swarm of anti-abortion-rights activists. It was the 37th annual March for Life, organized every year on Jan. 22, the anniversary of Roe. “I just thought, my gosh, they are so young,” Keenan recalled. “There are so many of them, and they are so young.” March for Life estimates it drew 400k activists to the Capitol this year. An anti-Stupak rally two months earlier had about 1,300 attendees.
New NARAL research, conducted earlier this year and released exclusively to NEWSWEEK, only amplified Keenan’s fears….
Millennials are more likely than their boomer parents to see abortion as a moral issue….
Certainly, the anti-abortion movement helped fuel this shift in the attitudes of the young by reframing the abortion debate around the fetus rather than the pregnant woman. Millennials also came of age as ultrasounds provided increasingly clear pictures of fetal development. “The technology has clearly helped to define how people think about a fetus as a full, breathing human being,” admits former NARAL president Kate Michelman. “The other side has been able to use the technology to its own end.”…
So what might prompt the next generation to take up the cause? “If Roe were overturned, that would certainly be a game changer,” NARAL pollster Anna Greenberg mused at a recent meeting. Of course, no one in NARAL wants it to come to that. Instead, within the abortion-rights community there’s a growing consensus on a promising path forward: start an open discussion about the moral, ethical, and emotional complexity of abortion that would be more likely to resonate with young Americans. “It’s a morally complex issue that both sides have tried to make black and white,” says Greenberg. “We have to recognize the moral complexity.”
Abortion-rights activists have traditionally hesitated on this front, viewing it as a slippery slope toward their own defeat. Instead, they often go to extremes to fend off even the smallest encroachments, opposing popular restrictions like parental-notification laws and bans on late-term procedures. Lately, though, Keenan has been more convinced that NARAL must adopt a more nuanced stance. On the 35th anniversary of Roe… she bluntly told a crowd… in Austin, TX… that “our reluctance to address the moral complexity of this debate is no longer serving our cause or our country well. In our silence, we have ceded moral ground.”
[HT: Susie Allen; photo via forums.christian.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Hate to break it to you, Ms. Keenan, but you haven’t ceded any moral ground because you never had any moral ground. There never has been, never will be, anything moral about abortion.
The thing is that 27% of the people have 55% of the kids and religion/pro life sentiments are correlated to higher fertility. Not 100% of course, but it is a trend that many demographers have noted. One is Eric Kaufmann, Belfer Center, Harvard University/Birkbeck College, University of London e.kaufmann@bbk.ac.uk
When you are a group promoting low fertility, don’t expect to easily increase in number.
http://www.sneps.net/RD/uploads/1-Shall%20the%20Religious%20Inherit%20the%20Earth.pdf
excerpt:
“… an important postulate of second demographic transition theory is that values are increasingly linked to fertility behaviour as societies modernise. Whereas the first phase of transition is affected by material changes like urbanisation (which renders children more costly and less beneficial), falling infant mortality and the availability of contraception, latter-day declines are more consciously ‘chosen’ on the basis of values and attitudes. Conservative religious values are associated with higher fertility while liberal or secular values predict lower birthrates. (Surkyn and Lesthaeghe 2004; van de Kaa 1987)
This dynamic increases its importance in the modern period because previous to this both religious conservatives and others had high fertility, cancelled out by high mortality. Only as mortality falls do differences in fertility become more important – and here we find that conservative religious groups have not responded to falling infant mortality as others have: i.e., by dropping their fertility to the replacement level, or below. (Skirbekk, forthcoming) When everyone had ten children and eight died before they reached adulthood, beliefs didn’t matter. Today they do. ”
Hate to break it to you, Ms. Keenan, but you haven’t ceded any moral ground because you never had any moral ground. There never has been, never will be, anything moral about abortion.
Posted by: Jennifer at April 20, 2010 10:49 AM
**********
Jennifer, these were my thoughts exactly!! Amen.
Did anybody read the “history of birth control” that’s been added to the article? Talk about bias.
It refers to metallic chastity belts as an “early attempt at abstinence-only education” – seriously? – and then goes on to describe the ill-conceived mechanical apparatus and how painful and degrading it could be to women.
Pro-life parents raise pro-life children. Pro-abortion parents have few children, and even fewer pro-personhood children.
It it really that hard to comprehend, or is Newsweek horrible at math?
Amen, Jennifer!
The proabort mentality and movement is losing. You know it, I know it and they know it.
If abortion didn’t end the life of an unborn human child I would have no problem with it.
If abortion didn’t end the life of an unborn human child I would have no problem with it.
So you have no problem with contraception, then? Contraception reduces abortions and unwanted pregnancies, and does not kill human fetuses.
I’m not saying you support contraception. I’m just askign if you have a problem with it.
Contraception reduces abortions and unwanted pregnancies,
Posted by: Dhalgren at April 20, 2010 12:01 PM
If only people would use it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703757504575194191495081682.html
And many young people are in “the fog zone” in which their beliefs about pregnancy don’t match their behaviors, according to a 2009 report by the National Campaign to End Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. In a survey conducted by the Guttmacher Institute of 1,800 single men and women aged 18 to 29, more than 80% of both sexes said it was important to them to avoid pregnancy right now, yet 43% of those who are sexually active said they used no contraception or used it inconsistently.”
Cheap legal abortion reduces the incentive to actually use birth control consistently and conscientiously.
Woo hooo! The good guys are winning the abortion debate!
Cranky Catholic@ 11:26
Exactly! 7 children from me (pro-life) compared to 0 children from a pro-choice woman I know. Do they really wonder about this?
Posted by: Dhalgren at April 20, 2010 12:01 PM
“So you have no problem with contraception, then?”
—————————————————
Dull-gren,
‘contra’ ception by defintion is the prevention of mr. sperm ‘hooking up’ with ms ova.
There are some who as a matter conscience have a moral objection to preventing the mr. sperm from uniting with ms ova.
There are some who do not.
What nearly all of us reasonable logical pro-life folks have in common is the killing of the new human being who comes into existence as a result of mr. sperm and ms ova being joined together.
To most of you ‘dead babies r us’ folks, contraception means preventing the new human being from living any longer than possible and you have come with all kinds of novel methods to ensure that none of the non-‘chosen’ ones survive.
Dullgrin,
When your momma was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was resident in her uterus?
You can poll the audience or call a friend or even ask a fifth grader if you require assistance with the answer.
yor bro ken
Reducing casual sex in non-committed (or pre-marital) relationships could reduce abortion. Unfortunately, abortion and contraception are Big Business so the pro-aborts don’t want to reveal this bit of truth.
The dead babies r us mob is not interested in eliminating or even reducing the number of abortions.
Abortion is the golden cash cow. They use the money milked from the golden cash cow to advance all the rest of their leftist agenda.
yor bro ken
Cranky Catholic@ 11:26
Exactly! 7 children from me (pro-life) compared to 0 children from a pro-choice woman I know. Do they really wonder about this?
Posted by: Kristen at April 20, 2010 12:40 PM
Add me to the list with 7, too. Between us, 14 children raised in the belief that human life is sacred.
Hey, I found a pro natalist religious blog that has an interesting statement defining themselves:
http://concordiansisters.blogspot.com/
“You too are a Concordian Sister of Perpetual Parturition, regardless of how many kids you have, if your family size determines your lifestyle rather than the other way around. And if you buy into that Concordia business (we’re talking Confessions here, not those money pits where we went to college).”
As a back-to -nature freak, I zeroed in on that part about
“if your family size determines your lifestyle rather than the other way around”
Jill,
You might consider prominently posting a similar disclaimer/warning on your home page:
“The Concordian Sisters cannot be held responsible for poor reading comprehension on the part of visitors to this blog.
If readers find our notions offensive, they are more than welcome to quit offending themselves by visiting here.”
Amen to that sisters!
yor bro ken
OMG… now I HAVE to go check out that blog…
“Add me to the list with 7, too. Between us, 14 children raised in the belief that human life is sacred.
Posted by: Elisabeth at April 20, 2010 12:55 PM”
===============================================
Add my 3 kids to the list (should’ve been 4 but we lost 1 to a miscarriage about 2 years ago).
And my eldest daughter is entering High School in the fall and would need 100 hours of service for graduation. She plans to volunteer at the newly opened Waterleaf Woman’s Center..a block from the Aurora, PP.
She actually wants to volunteer to Live Action’s effort of going undercover and exposing PP’s lies.
The pro-life side has more young people because young people think about legally aborted babies and realize, “There, but for the grace of God, go I.” A lot of the old guard on the pro-choice side couldn’t have been legally aborted, or only could have been legally aborted in some states. They don’t have that same sense of having dodged the metaphorical bullet.
That, and the pro-life side realizes that ending abortion wouldn’t set society back in time. It wouldn’t cause pregnant women to be expelled from school or fired from their jobs for being pregnant. It wouldn’t turn unwed mothers into targets of ostracism. Sometimes I get the feeling that the pro-choice side thinks that abortion is somehow synanymous with various progress made for equal rights for women – outlaw abortion, and suddenly girls won’t be able to play sports in school and the percentage of women in college will drastically fall and female elected officials will be kicked out of office. They might not consciously think that, but I think that for some of them it’s an irrational fear lurking in the backs of their minds.
Please add our nine dear ones to the ever-growing list of young pro-lifers! (Would be thirteen were it not for four miscarriages.)
Our collective total so far is 26!
*THANK YOU, LORD, FOR OUR PRECIOUS CHILDREN!*
Check this out, pro-life friends. It’s going to be great!:
http://www.visionforumministries.org/events/bc/
and:
http://www.visionforum.com/hottopics/blogs/dwp/2010/04/6542.aspx
Blessings!
Oh, forgot to say that Lord-willing, we will be adding more to our flock by way of adoption. We’re getting our home study underway and hope to adopt a sibling group, if the Lord allows. (My point being that it will be more for our collective Life List. : ) )
Artemis,
The liberal East Coast is known for producing CINO’S (Catholics in name only) so your anecdotal evidence that pro-lifers there are producing pro-choicers is hardly proof that pro-lifers don’t tend to raise pro-life children.
And no, pro-lifers are NOT happy that pro-aborts are killing their offspring. To their detriment, the fact that it’s happening shows how obtuse the PC’rs really are.
Add my four cherubs and I believe we are up to 30 prolife offspring of prolife parents on this thread. :)
“Pro-life parents raise pro-life children.”
You are very funny.
Love,
a Pro-Choice activist gal who was raised by two openly anti-choice parents.
Oh, and by the way, I plan on having a LOT of kids, so your “pro-choicers don’t have kids!” belief is wrong, too. This is common sense, guys and gals. Really.
Love,
a pro-choice activist gal who was raised by two openly anti-choice parents who wants to have a bunch of kids. ?
Who also wants to become an abortionist to kill other prochoice parent’s kids.
Why is it that many pro-lifers neither know or understand how contraception works?
Contraceptive pills work in that they attempts to prevent sperm and ova from joining; however, that only works somewhere in the 70 percentile range. The other method is that, should sperm and ova meet, the newly formed embryo, i.e. baby, is prevented from attaching to the lining of the uterine wall, causing a miscarriage or spontaneous abortion. This is the abortifacient nature, or 2nd line of defense, for the contraceptive. That’s how contraceptive pills work.
It’s good when I can agree with Nancy Keenan and if I could talk to her in person I would say, “Amen! By all means let’s start an open discussion about the moral, ethical, and emotional complexity of abortion. Whoyaaa!”
If we are doing a head count, add my 5 to the list. :)
“Pro-life parents raise pro-life children.”
You are very funny.
Love,
a Pro-Choice activist gal who was raised by two openly anti-choice parents.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 20, 2010 2:56 PM
Not funny. Statistically valid. Just like atheists sometimes have their kids grow up to be religious. However, statistically speaking, kids tend to be like parents. Just because there is not 100% correlation doesn’t mean there is not a general trend.
“Pro-life parents raise pro-life children.”
You are very funny.
Love,
a Pro-Choice activist gal who was raised by two openly anti-choice parents.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 20, 2010 2:56 PM
Not funny. Statistically valid. Just like atheists sometimes have their kids grow up to be religious. However, statistically speaking, kids tend to be like parents. Just because there is not 100% correlation doesn’t mean there is not a general trend.
“a Pro-Choice activist gal who was raised by two openly anti-choice parents.”
What do your parents think about your plans to become an abortionist PCG? Oh, you haven’t told them? Why not? Sounds like you might have some communication/control issues with those you claim to be the closest with.
Mature people who are truly PROUD of what they are doing and/or promoting don’t feel the need to hide it from anyone, including their parents. At least your parents never hid the fact that they were prolife from you.
Maybe I just don’t feel like being disowned right now, Praxedes. I will tell them on my own time.
Sounds more like you are “bucking authority” than being firm in your convictions. Your fear of being disowned is greater than your self-proclaimed strong convictions. The fact that you can proclaim over and over to complete strangers how firm you are in who you are and what you believe but are not able to be honest with those who raised you and love you, makes your convictions quite weak to say nothing of based on dishonesty.
Kinda like the whole movement you support–based on weaknesses and dishonesty. It is very insincere of you to proclaim your convictions to complete strangers but in reality continue to keep those who love you the most in the dark.
How you relate or choose not to relate to those whom you claim to love as well says a lot about your character. Unless you are fearful of physical abuse, as a daughter and as a mother, I believe your parents deserve the truth about your life plans.
You wouldn’t make the same assumptions about an anti-choicer who doesn’t want to tell her parents about her beliefs.
Praxedes, if her parents would disown her, they don’t seem like the most caring individuals anyway, caring more about the fact that their daughter’s life plans align with theirs than making sure their daughter’s life plans are what SHE wants.
To be respected, one must first be respectful. Seems like her parents aren’t very respectful of their daughter’s independence.
I don’t know of anyone who proclaims to be anti-choice to say nothing of someone who proclaims to be anti-choice but is also afraid to tell their parents that they’re anti-choice.
If I ever come across someone who loudly expresses being anti-choice but is fearful of telling their loved ones about this, you can rest assured that I will question the sincerity of their conviction.
I don’t need your validation. Fighting for reproductive freedom is my passion, and I don’t need you to tell me otherwise. I’m currently living away from my parents and am independent from them, but don’t you think it’d leave an emotional scar to be disowned? I’m simply waiting for the right time. That is all. I do not need you to tell me when that time is.
PS- my parents know that I’m pro-choice, they just don’t know that I’m going to be a provider.
Anybody notice the irony of the title?
“Pro-aborts worry about next generation”
They sure weren’t worried about the next generation when they were busy exterminating it.
It reminds me of Pharaoh, who killed off the Hebrew children for fear they were becoming too strong. It happened to be a survivor of that massacre that led them to deliverance. Once again the survivors may bring about an end to the injustice.
A truly misguided passion, PCG. I think you know that deep down though. You are not fighting for anything. You are training to suction the bodies of young human beings out of their mothers wombs and then send those wounded mothers on their way with a Good Bye and Good Luck. Why do you hate women so much?
I will join your parents in prayer that you will learn the truth before it is too late.
Yes, I hate women so much that I’m going to refrain from assaulting them. I hate them sooo much that I’ve going to give them liberty. I hate them soooo much that I’m actually going to listen to what they say and what they want, instead of telling them what’s best for them. I hate them so much that I recognize the fact that they aren’t idiots, and that I need not make choices for them. Amazing, huh?
You know what else is amazing? How YOU think you know what I feel deep down, without even meeting me or having a meaningful discussion with me. Amazing.
I have “discussed” things on your blog. I have read more than enough of your blog posts. Read of your supporters. Not hard to figure you out, PCG. You hate.
Will you show women the ultrasound of their fully formed human baby? Will you tell them about fetal development? Will you be accurate about that development or say that it’s “just a bunch of cells?” When someone is alone and lost and afraid will you tell her abortion is the “best” thing she can do? Will you laugh all the way to the bank?
You will assault a woman by forcefully dilating her cervix and using suction to extract her child. It is medical rape.
There is a big difference between you judging me, trying to smear me, and making assumptions about me, and having a meaningful discussion with me. It takes a lot more than that and reading a few of my blog posts to get to know me. I’m sad to say this, but out of all of the antis I’m engaged, I’ve only ever had a meaningful discussion with one, maybe two, anti-choice people. You are not one of them. If you want to make assumptions about my character, try getting to know me first. If you don’t want to get to know me, maybe you should leave your assumptions and judgments to yourself.
And I am never going to perform an abortion on a person without her consent. You, however, are willing to force a woman through a pregnancy against her will, so I suggest you shush up about medical rape, considering the fact that you are the one here who supports it.
Quote from younger pro-abort to older pro-aborts on the Abortion Gang site: “I don’t know how many times I have to yell to be heard by older feminists. Turn up your hearing aids! Are you listening? We’re here.”
What was that you were saying about respect again, Less? I didn’t hear you. I forgot to put in my hearing aid.
Carla, I’m adding my prayers to yours and PCG’s parents’ prayers. Anyone else here who believes in and/or has witnessed the healing powers of prayer, please join us in asking our Holy Lord for the complete healing of PCG’s heart. If you would be so kind, please add me to your list of those to pray for as well.
PCG
You have already stated what you support, what you want to do with your life and how your parents feel about it. You blog your thoughts, feelings and emotions. I know enough.
When you come to this site and proclaim that we are pro-rape without knowing any of us what does that say about you, PCG?
I will not shush when it comes to abortion! But thanks for the warning.
Oh and your last sentence makes zero sense.
Thank you, Praxedes!
“PCG
You have already stated what you support, what you want to do with your life and how your parents feel about it. You blog your thoughts, feelings and emotions. I know enough.”
Alright, so where did I state that I hate women? Where did I state that I want to perform abortions on women who do not consent?
oh wait, I didn’t. You’re just making stuff up again.
Good bye, Carla. Drop me an email if you’re ever interested in real discussion (email address is on my blogger profile)
I am sure this is not goodbye, PCG. :)
Any abortionist who does NOT tell women the truth about what abortion will do to her growing child or the risks of abortion hardly LOVES women or wants to HELP women.
See you soon.
Killing innocents for profit is all about hate. You don’t have to state it.
Actions speak louder than words.
What I find so interesting about you, PCG is that you do not hold yourself to the same standard of behavior that you hold us to.
You can spout your prorape rhetoric here until the cows come home and then when someone calls you on it or questions you about it we are “judging” and “making assumptions.”
You want to be an abortionist. The facts about what abortion is and what it does to a woman and her child shouldn’t be so offensive to you.
You go on and on about “reproductive justice” and then can’t defend why you want to kill babies.
Then you run away.
Who’s running away? Certainly not me ;).
Then stay!! You will find out soon enough that although I vehemently disagree with your passion for aborting children I also happen to care. You matter. You are worthwhile. You have gifts and talents and abilities and I would hate to see you squander it all to be an abortionist.
And yes I can say that. And no I will not shush.
Praxedes, I have no idea what you’re talking about regarding hearing aids. What sense are you making?
You seem to think that me staying and watching people call me a woman hater, baby killer, selfish, etc, is going to divert me from following my life’s calling. I don’t mean any disrespect, but how is that going to work, exactly?
I hate them sooo much that I’ve going to give them liberty.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 20, 2010 8:43 PM
**************************
Wow. Just… wow. If you’re going to be an abortion “provider”, PCG, keep it up. You’re doing great with the God-complex talk. It’s astounding what these “providers” have to tell themselves to do their jobs…
Is committing the murder of an innocent to obtain one’s liberty what the women’s movement was all about?
Stay to discuss!! You sure can dish it out, though can’t you, PCG?
You provoke the responses you get then play the victim.
What does an abortionist do exactly if not kill a baby? Hair? Manicures? Pedicures? Root canals?
I love how you pretend to be nice to me in one post and then go on to try to insult me in the next. Very funny ;)
Not pretending at all. I can like discussing things with you and be abhorred by what you want to do in life. Why do you care what I think?
I am a post abortive mom that regrets her abortion. I have been spit on, yelled at, flipped off, and sworn at while holding my I Regret My Abortion sign.
Do you think I give 2 figs what anyone else says about my story? The most horrifying experience of my life?
Maybe, just maybe we are trying to save you from yourself. Just like your parents will when they find out their little girl wants to be an abortionist.
And how is calling me a selfish, baby murdering woman hater going to “save me from myself” again? I’m supposed to believe that anti-choicers are trying to “help” me when they attempt to annoy and smear me like that?
And no, I don’t care about what you think of me. However, that doesn’t mean that I’ll fall for the “You’re a selfish, evil, money-greedy baby murderer! ….but I care about you and want to help you” trick. I’m smarter than that.
“Add my four cherubs and I believe we are up to 30 prolife offspring of prolife parents on this thread. :)”
Hey Carla,
Does that include my three cherubs???
Add my three kiddos. :)
ProChoiceGal,
I’m late to this thread, but find your war with Carla somewhat of an incongruity. Carla has experienced the searing agony that comes to so very many women who are post-abortive. That’s part of what you get when you make the choice.
Pro-life IS pro-woman. To say the least, it is an unnatural act to kill one’s own offspring.
You speak of reproductive freedom, but you do not speak of responsibility. When you speak of reproductive freedom, what you are advocating is sex without responsibility and employing the killing of another human being, namely your own baby, to preserve your right to unencumbered orgasm.
In a more enlightened age that was called narcissism.
41 prolife cherubs just on this thread!! :)
PCG,
You come to a prolife blog to call us prorape. You yap about how you are passionate about becoming an abortionist because you love “reproductive justice.”
Stop with the rhetoric and spit it out. You want to end the lives of children because that is what abortion IS and what abortion DOES!! Why do you have such a hard time grasping just what your profession is about? You will get paid to end the lives of children. Fact.
Are you trolling for topics for your blog? :)
PCG,
To make it through a pre-med curriculum (which I needed for graduate school), and then a doctorate and advanced training (which I did in two master degrees, Ph.D. & post-doctoral fellowship), one needs a sustaining vision to eat the mountain of crap that you are forced to along the way.
My vision was the moral worth and dignity of all people, from fertilization through natural death. That’s what got me through the hard times, the difficult workload, the endless, exhausting hours in lab. I knew that one day I would redeem that suffering and sacrifice by being able to help save and prolong people’s lives with my knowledge and skills.
I say this as a doctor of medical microbiology, and i say this with all seriousness and candor:
Any person whose sustaining vision is the slaughter of babies, any person who makes it though thirteen years of education beyond high school on that vision is twisted and evil.
Anyone who would even speak such words in jest is an ass.
So which one are you?
Eight parents/couples represented, with 41 children (46 and probably more, counting the little ones who did not live beyond the womb).
This blesses my heart!
It would make a fun group shot, don’t you think, Carla? : )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Praxedes and PCGal ~
As I was settling in here at my kitchen table to tackle some late-night laundry, I was checking in on this conversation while listening to Michael W. Smith’s “Worship” CD.
I thought of you, PCGal, when this song played:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR0LiRiz4l4&feature=related .
While the song was nearing its end, I read the prayer request from Praxedes for PCGal and it was perfect timing:
“Carla, I’m adding my prayers to yours and PCG’s parents’ prayers. Anyone else here who believes in and/or has witnessed the healing powers of prayer, please join us in asking our Holy Lord for the complete healing of PCG’s heart.”
ProChoiceGal, whatever circumstances have shaped your life and brought you to such a point of desperation, deception by spirits of murder, independence and rebellion and a relentless pursuit of evil, I am praying that the Lord will enable you to let them go. Let go of the hurts, the offenses and the desire for revenge.
I am praying that He will have great mercy (as He has for me), pursue you and draw you unto Himself. I am praying that you will drop it all at the Cross, PCGal. I am praying the Lord will cause you to surrender your angry, broken, rebellious and diseased heart to Him.
You have huge craters in your rock-hard heart, PCGal. Yet you’re concerned about your parents disowning you, so that tells me you know you’re not invincible. I am praying the Holy Spirit will work mightily, give you a new heart and bring healing and wholeness to your life.
I’m praying for you too tonight, Praxedes.
With love to you both,
Ruthanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, and Carla ~ Please never shush!
Carla-
There are no children involved in an abortion. I want to become an abortion provider because I love people. Go ahead and call me a liar. Anyone with half a brain should know that you’re just a stranger who thinks herself superior enough to be able to read minds.
Ruthanne-
I think your prayers are misdirected, but thanks anyway.
Hi PCG,
I am no stranger here. I have been a moderator on this blog for 2 years.
I believe you want to be an abortionist. You are not lying about that. I believe that you don’t think human babies in the womb are children.
I believe you are completely and totally deceived.
Superior? LOL
Ruthanne,
Thank you for your comment and your prayers!! :)
I have a question for PCG – do you believe that fetuses are human?
Good one, Marauder!!
Good morning, PCG! Time to rise and shine, up and at em. Marauder has a question for you. :)
PCG:
Child: 2 “a. An unborn infant; a fetus.”
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Child: 3. an unborn baby
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
Yes, there is a child killed during abortion. Your goal in life is to kill children. Charming.
PCG, I only wish you could spend time at a Silent No More Awareness event, a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat, or on the PASS Support Boards, or even with the families of women who’ve died during a “safe and legal” abortion and spend time listening to these women and families share their abortion experiences and their grief, so that you may have a more rounded view of the whole abortion experience before you decide to become a provider.
Well it has been quite a thread going on here. PCG can’t imagine you would go through all the rigors and years of medical training to become an abortionists, no matter how much money you can make. I never saw any “cream of the crop” OB/Gyns become abortionists in my years in healthcare. Only the ones who couldn’t cut it with a lucrative prvate practice or good medical clinic. I have heard a couple of pro-aborts say they have seen top-notch OB/Gyns work as abortionist in large cities but the odds are definately not in your favor. However I will take you at your word that you could work to deliver beautiful babies, work to save the lives of mothers and babies and then leave the birthing room of one woman saying “Congratulations, you have a bouncing baby girl or boy” and then walk out the door go to a surgical suite and destroy human life with a speculum, dialators, currette, powerful vacuum suction and then piece the baby together to make sure you got it all so the mother doesn’t get a horrible infection or bleed to death. Sounds really schizo to me but I will take you at your word, but don’t think you can pull it off PCG. Come report back in a few years and tell us how’s that working out for you. We will be praying for you that your eyes will be opened. BTW just remembered one of my college room mates worked as OR supervisor in a huge hospital overseas that did abortions. The revolving door turnover of staff was horrible, staff found out they couldn’t work there for more than a few months usually before they couldn’t take it anymore. The nightmares, depression, alcohol and drug abuse problems among the staff who worked in this abortion surgical unit was off the charts. She couldn’t keep staff there, didn’t take my friend long to find out this was the most stressful, awful part of her job, keeping this abortion unit running. You think you are a tough cookie though. We pray you will change your mind. Life has a way of doing that for a lot of us, especially when we live through some difficulties that show us how “precious” and “invaluable” life is. Once upon a time when I was a college student I thought I might be pro-choice too, then LIFE HAPPENED.
I have 3 prolife Earth Angels (two who I was pressured to abort)who talk with me and others about being prolife.
I actually had a proabort asked me what was wrong with me when they saw I was pregnant the third time stating, “You have a boy and a girl already. Aren’t you ever happy? What are you thinking have a third?”
Anyway, my 15 religious education highschoolers are all pro-life as well. I asked them about pro-life tshirts last week and they want to get some. Gonna order some as soon as I get their sizes.
Thanks for the prayers Ruthanne! Prayers for me are never misguided but are always much needed, wanted and appreciated! Peace.
Let me see?….they kill their babies, we allow ours to live….wonder why their numbers are diminishing? DUH!
Hmm — I’m feeling left out here. I only had one child, who is very pro-life. Ironically, my (adopted) son isn’t. My parents aren’t prolife, either.
Anyway I am glad to see young people picking up the torch, because I’m old and tired. If someone would please pass me my cane and hearing aid . . .
Marauder- Yep, I believe that fetuses are human. Not that it should matter. Even if they have human rights, no human has the right to use a person’s body against his or her will. Women are still humans and are still people of value, believe it or not.
Humans, especially children and the disabled, have the right to infringe upon the rights of others. It doesn’t take any value away from the person whose rights are compromised, believe it or not.
“no human has the right to use a person’s body against his or her will”
Except in the cases of rape and naivety (which one would think would not be a problem anymore since PP has done such a wonderful job for years of talking about the birds/bees), every time you CHOOSE to have sexual intercourse you are stating with your body that you are open to Life. It may be hard for some humans to believe but we do actually have the ability and strength to say no. Proaborts are using their bodies to tell their sexual partners that “you are good enough to have sex with but not good enough to be part of my family.”
PCG, has anyone talked with you about how fetuses are made? (sorry some of our parents used the wrong language when they talked about how babies are made, not how fetuses are made.) If you are unsure how fetuses are made, give your parents a call. They can fill you in and I’m sure they’d love to hear what you’ve been up to. (:
“Women are still humans and are still people of value, believe it or not.”
And so are Fetuses.
Ooh! ooh! Add my son to the list too! Hopefully SOON I will raise up more little pro-lifers! pro-life t-shirts on a baby are an amazing pro-life witness. I got LOTS of comments when my son would wear his “former embryo” t-shirt. It does get you to think. Babies don’t just pop out of a bubble you know. What exactly do people think is inside the womb for 9 months? Fish?
PCG—I think the reason you don’t want to tell your parents of your plans to further pervert your medical skills by becoming a full-time baby killer is that you need them to pay for your schooling. It has nothing to do with being disowned. I’d put money on it. Cause your parents are probably sacrificing (ya know, what parents are supposed to do to give life and education to their kids) to put you through school and would probably withdraw all financial support if they knew what you planned to do with that hard-earned education they handed you.
42!!!!!!!!! :)
Phillymiss,
Don’t feel left out, remember your daughter is planning on having 6 children! :) If she does, then you can count that as 7 for you!!
ProChoice Gal,
If a fetus was a virus that, through no action of yours, began to grow inside of your body with the intent to destroy, then maybe you would have a point.
43!!!
There are no children involved in an abortion.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 21, 2010 5:50 AM
It must take an incredible amount of mental gymnastics to even attempt to make that statement…
God bless all of you’ll. I’ve shared some of my testimony on Ms. Taylor’s blogs and even wrote a comment to Mr. Sanger. When the lady asked for citation and references I invited her here. Gonna let my little light shine! I really hope planned parenthood changes their stance on abortion but if they don’t I really hope they are replaced by an agency that doesn’t promote abortion. This site I guess is almost like a pro-life hospital for the spirit, mind and soul.
Go glad you are here, Myrtle!! Keep shining! :)
Marauder-
I so agree with what your saying except I don’t believe the power players behind this movement believe that because they know too much about the law. If you visit some of their sites a lot of these ladies just say I have self-autonomy and have a right to remove a fetus from my body. They don’t see it as a baby or maybe they just don’t care. But if there leaders talked like that the American public would shut these agencies down. They move slowly and carefully that’s why a lot of the younger generation has lost much of it’s true liberties. When you really think about it what have they really given them? The right to have their own children killed. And it’s a whole lot easier for them to come over here and vent because if they said on some of these blogs how they really felt they would be verbally attacked. So welcome all you who visit who already know in your own souls right from wrong and just need a little affirmation.
Hello Mods was there a reason my post this afternoon taken down? Was there a problem and if so what was it? I did double post because it took so long and asked you to take down the double post but I would like to know what happened to it? Thank you.
PCG, how will you know that the women whose fetuses you will be killing are truly making a free, informed choice? Will you speak to them or leave it to your staff? Will you ask them if the people who sent them or brought them want the abortion more than they do? Will you ask them if they would make a different decision if they had more support, more money, a better job? Would you offer them the support they would need, or direct you to someone who would–say, a pregnancy resource center?
Are you prepared for the possibility that perhaps the prolifers are right? Are you prepared for the day when women you think you have liberated come back to curse you for killing someone they have realized they loved and wanted? Are you prepared to spend your life with people who hate what you do always outside your place of business, your home, everywhere you go, protesting you? You don’t even seem prepared to give up the support and blessing of your parents. They might not blame you but they will be ashamed of you.
What if they show up outside your practice, carrying signs that say “PCG is my daughter, don’t let her kill your baby”?
You say you want a lot of children. What will you tell them about what you do? When they are how old? Are you prepared for them to ask whether you loved them before they were born, whether they were different from the babies you kill, why you kill babies, whether you would have killed them if they were less healthy or came at a bad time? Are you prepared for if they abandon your values and protest outside your clinic?
How will you feel about your line of work if you cannot find a husband because of it, or cannot find a husband with your vision for a large family? Or worse, if he says one thing when you marry but another after you have one or two kids?
How will you feel about your profession if one day you are performing an abortion because a woman does not want a third child, while you would love a third child but your husband refuses to be a father to a third child? How will you feel killing a fetus the same age as the one in your own womb, or older? How will you feel about going back to work and killing fetuses a few months younger than your newborn? How will you feel about pumping breastmilk on your break between reassembling a 14-week-old human being and preparing to “evacuate” another?
Or what if you end up unable to have children? It is very common. How will you feel about aborting what a woman calls a mistake when you desperately want a child of your own? How will you feel that day when you realize the first child you aborted would be born–would turn 1–would turn 5? Especially if you cannot have your own? What if you pursue adoption–and recognize the face of the woman who will birth your child as one who showed up in your waiting room, but changed her mind and left?
What if you experience miscarriage? How will you feel about tearing parts off of a living fetus a few days after your own fetus passed away? How will you feel about a woman who wants to end the life of a fetus the same age yours was? If you want a large family, you’re pretty likely to have a miscarriage at some point. How will you feel doing abortions the day that child would have been born? On the date, each year, that he or she died?
What if you choose to birth a child with a disability, or do so because his or her defect went undiagnosed? What will you feel when a woman wants her fetus killed because he will turn out like your son? What will your response be if your daughter asks if you would have had her killed had you known she wouldn’t be perfect? Will you be able to work that day with that conversation hanging over your head?
What if you decide you were wrong? That killing fetuses is not okay, is not just another career path? That you’ve made not just one horrible mistake (choosing to become an abortionist), but 10 horrible mistakes a day, 50 a week, 200 a month, 2400 a year–for decades? Could you live with yourself if you decide not to make killing fetuses your life’s work–perhaps more easily than deciding to make this killing your job and then realizing–at your first positive pregnancy test, after a miscarriage, after a birth, when a child is born early, when you feel the first movement in your womb, when your daughter is pregnant out of wedlock with your first grandchild–that your life’s work has been tragically misguided?
Or maybe you won’t ever regret it. Maybe when you see the first ultrasound, you’ll be thinking about which technique would be best for a child of that age, but push the thought aside, knowing that baby is wanted. Maybe when morning sickness is too much for you, you’ll think it’s no wonder so many women don’t want to be pregnant, without thinking through the implications. Maybe when you miss a day or two of work because of it, you’ll think it’s too bad more women couldn’t be liberated that day from such a burden. Maybe when you are first kicked or punched from the inside, you will think about the baby’s position and what that would mean if you were performing an abortion–but push the thought aside. Maybe when you find out your third is a third boy, you will begin to realize why some people choose to abort a child of the wrong sex (though of course you wouldn’t do it). Maybe when you begin to have signs of preterm labor, you’ll note that this baby is the age of one you killed, and probably not viable, and nothing about that will bother you. Maybe when you give birth, you’ll think how abortion is less painful. And maybe as you hold your newborn, you will still think it would have been okay to kill him earlier. Maybe as you stare into his baby blue eyes, you won’t be haunted by the unseeing eyes of fetuses you’ve killed. And maybe that would be even sadder.
I seem to have a long comment that got eaten.
Question: Why are post-menopausal women allowed a seat at the table? Abortion affects them as little as it does men–less, since they won’t be fathering children either.
Oh, and–45.
A while back, there was an ultrasound picture (of baby Sykes) up on your website. I can never make much of ultrasound pictures. But my daughter–about 21 or 22 months then (almost 2 now) pointed at the screen and said “baby.” I didn’t ask or prompt or even point it out to her, and I doubt she remembers baby brother’s ultrasound pictures if she ever saw them. Safe to say she’s pro-life I guess :) Son is only 4 months but seems to be enjoying life outside the womb for the most part :)
“Women are still humans and are still people of value, believe it or not.”
I’M A HUMAN AND A PERSON OF VALUE? MY GOD, WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME?!?!? NOT ONCE IN MY NINE YEARS OF SINGLE-SEX EDUCATION DID I EVER HEAR OF SUCH A THING!
So, PCG, you think there are no children involved in abortion. What about all those kids you intend to have? If you’re pregnant and your four-year-old tells someone, “There’s a baby growing inside my mommy,” will you say, “No, honey, that’s not really a child”? What are you going to do if you have to perform an abortion on a woman who’s at the same stage of pregnancy you’re at? Kill her fetus, then go home and start planning the color scheme for the bedroom your baby will sleep in seven months from then?
What are you going to do if you’re pregnant, performing an abortion on a woman, and your baby moves inside of you? How do you think women are going to react to a pregnant abortionist? If you go on maternity leave, are you and your co-workers going to have a little going-away party just a few feet away from all the tiny dismembered arms and legs? Are you going to look at your latest ultrasound, realize the baby you’re pregnant with has your mother’s nose, and then burn someone else’s baby to death with saline solution?
What if you’re pregnant with your first child, happy and excited, and then, God forbid, have a miscarriage? Will you not let yourself cry or get upset, because it wasn’t really a child? What about friends who have miscarriages? Will you dismiss their grief because it wasn’t a “real baby”?
I’m with Sydney, I suspect you’re not telling your parents because you need their money. What’s your idea of the “right time” to tell them, the exact moment you’re financially secure on your own?
We really do care about you, but I’m not going to lie – at least at this point in your life, you are one heck of a frustrating, willfully blind person.
Oh, wait – my TEN years of single-sex education. Sorry about that.
PCG ~
It would behoove you to be mature, stop talking and writing and take a retreat to soul search. Stop covering your ears and drowning out the Truth with your own noise.
You need to get quiet and — with great sobriety — think through and answer EVERY SINGLE excellent question ycw and Marauder have presented to you.
You’re not only out to slaughter children and maim women’s bodies and hearts, you’re bent on destroying your own life as well.
We do not want you to die. We want you to experience forgiveness, life, love, truth, purpose and abundance in Jesus.
With love and prayer,
Ruthanne
Prolifer,
Your post is up. 11:36am one? I can check again if that is not the one. Not sure what happened but you were certainly not deleted! The site has the hiccups at times.
Thanks Carla. That is the one. I was a little mixed up about what time i posted. God bless.
BTW fellow prolifer healthcare workers my post at 11:36am brings up a good question. Any of you worked with a “top-notch” or even a “good” OB/GYN who was proud or even acknowledged that they were an abortionist (to paraphrase PCG who were proud they were liberating women from the slavery of carrying a fetus to term she did not want)? The only abortionists I knew of were considered “butchers” as OBs that no women wanted, so the OBs decided to work butchering babies in the womb instead of dellivering live babies. I understand that the pay is great but the emotional toll and being shunned by other docs is pretty awful.
Mary who comments here has talked about that a lot. The lack of respect for those docs who use what they learned to kill and not to heal. They are looked upon as bottom feeders.
Thanks Carla for the reminder that Mary has posted about this in the past. I just thought it was ironic that the young lady PCG is bragging about wanting to become an abortionist on a pro-life website and those of us who have worked in healthcare, including my friend who worked as an OR surgery supervisor of a huge hospital overseas, told me it is a despicable business to be in, her staff hated being assigned to the abortion death squad (nobody volunteered) and she had a horrible time keeping it staffed with docs, nurses, OR techs and anesthesiologists. I believe PCG is very young, naive and deceived or making this stuff up.
I think Elisabeth has talked about it too. It is no coincidence you have all had the same experiences in the medical field with those who are involved in abortions and how they are regarded.
“I believe PCG is very young, naive and deceived or making this stuff up.”
Definitely, Prolifer. And with the anonymity the internet provides (even when an individual maintains a blog), any persona can be created and stories fabricated to stir things up and lead people along.
Whether PCG’s story is true or not, to desire a career as a baby killer/zealous, visionary champion of “womyn’s reproductive rights” while claiming to want “LOTS”/”a bunch of kids” doesn’t add up.
Granted, satan works his deception in very clever and surprising ways but even if PCG really and truly does want specifically a LARGE batch of children of her own, one of the two desires is going to win out. The journey of pregnancy, childbirth and mothering of many young ones requires a certain strength of character, level of commitment and flat-out logistics a daily murderer of tiny humans simply does not have.
I really hope the desire to be a mother wins out over the desire to kill. I pray that those kicks of a beautiful child inside PCG’s body (even if only one precious child and not a personal baseball team) will someday open her eyes and heart and that she will walk away from the path of death.
* Please, Holy Spirit, move in PCG’s life, we humbly ask in Jesus’ Name. *
Amen Ruthanne. Amen.
I sure hope we can finally break this curse of a generation.
It almost has been a generation, abortion pros and cons. Another 3 years it will have been 40 years – a full generation. An entire generation that has literally been cut up, sucked up into a machine, and thrown in the medical waste bin, while another suffers the anxiety and depression at the loss of their lives.
Father, please forgive the offending generation. They know not what they do. Have mercy. Turn their hardened hearts to your compassion. St. Michael pray for us. Please help to lift this scourge against us and our world. Mother Mary pray for us. Please teach women what it’s really like to be a mother. Amen.
ycw-
That was one WEIRD comment.
“PCG, how will you know that the women whose fetuses you will be killing are truly making a free, informed choice? Will you speak to them or leave it to your staff?”
I would like to speak to them. I want her to make the choice. It shouldn’t be her boyfriend’s choice, or her parents’ choice. Hers alone.
“Are you prepared for the possibility that perhaps the prolifers are right? Are you prepared for the day when women you think you have liberated come back to curse you for killing someone they have realized they loved and wanted? Are you prepared to spend your life with people who hate what you do always outside your place of business, your home, everywhere you go, protesting you?”
Anti-choicers can not be right. The side of liberty is the side of truth, and anti-choicers are not on the side of liebrty. I’m aware of the fact that anti-choicers harass, stalk, and kill doctors. I’m prepared to take those risks if it means that I’ll help women.
“You say you want a lot of children. What will you tell them about what you do? When they are how old?”
I’ll tell them just like any other person tells their kids about what their career is. There is nothing shameful about providing abortions, and I am going to make sure that my kids know that.
“Are you prepared for them to ask whether you loved them before they were born, whether they were different from the babies you kill, why you kill babies, whether you would have killed them if they were less healthy or came at a bad time? Are you prepared for if they abandon your values and protest outside your clinic?”
1- It’s possible to love a fetus, even if it’s not a baby.
2- Many of your questions are moot, because I do not and will not ever kill babies.
3. I will never, ever be prepared for any of my kids becoming anti-choice. I would be heart broken if they ended up being against women’s rights. I’d love them, but I’d still feel like a failure of a parent.
“How will you feel about your line of work if you cannot find a husband because of it, or cannot find a husband with your vision for a large family?”
1. I have absolutely no business being with a man who is not okay with my career path.
2. I’m engaged, I’m not worried about finding a guy.
“Or worse, if he says one thing when you marry but another after you have one or two kids?”
This could happen with ANY couple.
“How will you feel about your profession if one day you are performing an abortion because a woman does not want a third child, while you would love a third child but your husband refuses to be a father to a third child?”
I recognize the fact that women aren’t here to make babies for ME. Women are people, not incubators. I’m not selfish.
“How will you feel killing a fetus the same age as the one in your own womb, or older? How will you feel about going back to work and killing fetuses a few months younger than your newborn? How will you feel about pumping breastmilk on your break between reassembling a 14-week-old human being and preparing to “evacuate” another?”
Any of this is supposed to matter.. how?
“Or what if you end up unable to have children? It is very common. How will you feel about aborting what a woman calls a mistake when you desperately want a child of your own? How will you feel that day when you realize the first child you aborted would be born–would turn 1–would turn 5? Especially if you cannot have your own? What if you pursue adoption–and recognize the face of the woman who will birth your child as one who showed up in your waiting room, but changed her mind and left?”
Once again, none of these women have an obligation to make babies just because I want a kid. I’m not selfish.
“What if you experience miscarriage? How will you feel about tearing parts off of a living fetus a few days after your own fetus passed away? How will you feel about a woman who wants to end the life of a fetus the same age yours was? If you want a large family, you’re pretty likely to have a miscarriage at some point. How will you feel doing abortions the day that child would have been born? On the date, each year, that he or she died?”
It’s likely that I’d grieve over my miscarriage. Like I said earlier, it’s possible to grieve over a fetus. I’d hope that that grieving wouldn’t effect the quality of my work.
“What if you choose to birth a child with a disability, or do so because his or her defect went undiagnosed? What will you feel when a woman wants her fetus killed because he will turn out like your son?”
Key word: choose. Just because I chose to do something doesn’t mean that every woman has an obligation to do what I did.
“What if you decide you were wrong?”
I will never decide that women’s rights are wrong.
“Maybe when morning sickness is too much for you, you’ll think it’s no wonder so many women don’t want to be pregnant, without thinking through the implications. Maybe when you miss a day or two of work because of it, you’ll think it’s too bad more women couldn’t be liberated that day from such a burden…..Maybe when you find out your third is a third boy, you will begin to realize why some people choose to abort a child of the wrong sex (though of course you wouldn’t do it)….Maybe when you give birth, you’ll think how abortion is less painful.”
Yeah, because women DEFINITELY abort just because of a morning sickness. Pregnancy is a life changing experience, not a simple inconvenience.