No new law needed: VA AG says state agencies can regulate abortion mills
Enacting abortion clinic regulations is a winning issue for pro-lifers. In states without abortion clinic regulations, such as mine – IL – abortion mills are less regulated than veterinary clinics, nail salons, and roofers.
The debate alone increases public awareness that abortion mills are creepy and unsanitary. (Photo right is of late-term abortion LeRoy Carhart’s NE mill.) It also puts pro-aborts on the defensive, forcing them to argue against the health and safety of women.
And actually enacting clinic regs forces many abortion mills to shut down, because they can’t afford to come up to code.
(Photo left is of abortionist Krishna Rajanna’s former KS mill, now closed down.)
But according to Americans United for Life, only 1 state, MO, “imposes stringent ambulatory clinic standards” on abortion clinics, which is as it should be. 21 states impose “varying degrees” of abortion clinic regs, 5 states regulate mills committing 1st trimester abortions only, and 8 states have clinic regs that have been enjoined or are not being enforced. Altogether, 27 states have clinics regs of some sort, meaning 23 don’t. See your state’s status on page 18 for AUL’s model language.
All of that was to get to an important decision issued last week on this topic by Republican VA Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, who concluded 2 state agencies (the Board of Medicine and the Board of Health) already have the power to enact clinic regs, never mind specific legislation. Recalling my points above, read the article detailing Cuccinelli’s decision in yesterday’s Washington Post. It bodes quite poorly for the other side:
Abortion-rights advocates said they are not surprised by Cuccinelli’s decision and predicted that if the Board of Health acts on his opinion, the regulations could prompt the shutdown of 17 of the state’s 21 clinics performing abortions….
(What does that say about the current conditions of those 17 abortion mills? And photo right is of buckets of aborted babies at an unnamed CA abortion mill.)
Cuccinelli concluded that the Board of Health, which regulates hospitals and nursing homes, has the authority to write new regulations requiring that doctors who perform abortions at the clinics hold hospital privileges, counselors have professional training and buildings undergo structural changes….
(Of course an abortionist should have privileges at the nearest hospital. And of course counselors should be trained, not some pro-abort smarm off the street as they are currently. And what about “structural changes”? Those would be, for instance, doors wide enough for a gurney to pass through, 36″, as opposed to the typical 32″ doorway. Again, common sense.)
“The state has long regulated outpatient surgical facilities and personnel to ensure a certain level of protection for patients,” Cuccinelli spokesman Brian Gottstein said. “There is no reason to hold facilities providing abortion services to any lesser standard for their patients. Even pharmacies, funeral homes and veterinary clinics are regulated by the state.“…
Critics of Cuccinelli, who opposes abortion, accuse him of issuing the opinion after he was unable to get the bills passed in a divided legislature. “He’s trying to do an end run around the General Assembly,” said Del. David Englin (D-Alexandria), who fought the bill in the House. “He’s trying to create law, and the VA Constitution doesn’t give him that authority.”
(I’d like to ask hypocrite Englin is this means he opposes Roe v. Wade, which did a little doozy of an end run around state legislatures.)
Again referring back to my initial comments, watch this WTTG Fox 5 gem yesterday, where Susan B. Anthony president Marjorie Dannenfelser drubs NARAL VA’s Tarina Keene. It seems to me the interviewer appeared to take the inquisitive view most of the public would: not quite understanding what was abortion gang’s prob…
Also mirroring, I think, public reaction to a pitch for safer abortion clinics was US News & World Report’s Mary Kate Cary:
I don’t understand. I thought the mantra of prochoice groups is that abortion should be “safe and legal.” If abortion clinics don’t have to meet hospital-type standards, aren’t they unsafe? If you’re getting an abortion, don’t you want your doctor to have hospital privileges in case something goes wrong? And aren’t most counselors professionally trained? (Isn’t professional training what makes a counselor a counselor, and not just a friend with an opinion?) The fact that so many clinics might have a problem meeting hospital standards tells me how many of them are unsafe.
Whether you’re prolife or prochoice, how anyone can be opposed to making abortions less dangerous is beyond me….
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Remember, kids: abortion is just like any other medical procedure… until people actually want to treat it that way.
..it’s an A-HA! moment for the pro-aborts….
You want abortion to be considered “healthcare” ? Well…now put up with the requirements/guidelines that ALL healthcare facilities have to follow.
It’s only “healthcare” so people would universally accept it….
Be careful what you wish for….Ooops! Too Late.
Just FYI PP already complies with state and local medical office regulations. You can find back woods doctor offices, in all areas of medicine, in certain areas of the country that are just as gross and in serious need of regulation as this one. All PP affiliates are held to the same PPFA standards all over the western world and I personally have no problem with further scrutiny in any medical office. It is exactly this type back alley clinic that PP was created to combat in the first place.
You know I have to bring this up… The reason you see abortion clinics such as this in 2010, is the fault of the “Pro-life” movement. 40 Years ago “before roe v wade” going to this type of back woods clinic “and I use the term clinic loosely” was the only way a woman could end an unwanted pregnancy. These were the type of horrors ALL women would face, if they were in need of an abortion. In the 40 years since it has been a constant struggle against religious dogma and right-wing politics to bring abortion out of the back alleys and into the light accepted western medicine. 40 years of fighting for women’s right to not only have abortion as an option but fighting to make sure they can exercise their options in a safe environment under professional care. Every dollar spent by the anti-choice movement to prevent abortion access has pushed standards of care further to the back burner. The Pro-Choice movement spends so much time and money to protect a woman’s legal, and constitutionally protected rights that it takes focus away from quality of care issues that, in a perfect world, would be the main focus of both sides of the argument. The number of threats, assaults, and murders committed against any doctor and their family, who dares to defy the Christian right in this country tends to chase away most of the best doctors, since cardiologists and podiatrists don’t get shot and killed while attending church with their families by Pro-life terrorists…
As you can see it’s been a very uphill battle and there is still a lot of climbing and fighting to do. These pictures make me just as sick as anyone else, and they need to be addressed. I can’t imagine anyone who wouldn’t find those conditions grossly deplorable and in serious need of regulation and oversight.
Pro-Choice people have no problem with further regulation of clinics and medical personnel. We have a problem when this gets lumped in with regulating the access to abortion services. We all want safe, responsible, quality healthcare, with access to all options open to women protected under the law.
Oh yeah. This is all our fault. :)
Thanks Biggz. LOL
Most of “the best doctors” don’t WANT to do abortions, Biggz. Only sleazebuckets who will do ANYTHING for money want to do them.
Heard there were a few PP’s not up to regulation either Biggz. That was in the news, so its hardly my bigoted pro-life mind conjuring that up.
If pro-lifers had as much magical power as you seem to think Biggz, then wouldn’t we have overturned Roe V. Wade by now? The reason that there are still countless shoddy clinics like this is because abortion is NOT about helping or caring for women. Its about money, plain and simple. Why waste money cleaning up your clinic or hiring professionals when you can get away with a shack and uneducated low-paid workers? The women still flock to you for abortions so you sit back and rake in the cash. Thats what its about. And lest women find out they have other options and stop flocking to you, you fight tooth and nail against any CPC that will actually HELP women and offer them a different choice. You want to keep women desperate and ignorant of the help thats out there when you’re an abortionist. Thats baby-killing 101.
These were the type of horrors ALL women would face, if they were in need of an abortion.
Nobody ever NEEDS an abortion, Biggz.
Again with the “back alley” abortions??? We just discussed this lie on another thread!
Abortions were done in a dr. office, Biggz.
Every dollar spent by the anti-choice movement to prevent abortion access has pushed standards of care further to the back burner.
Despite some PPs engaging in fraudulent Medicaid billing practices, patient care standards continue to lag? **gasp** I’m shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED!
Biggz 2:52PM
Do you know where the term “back alley abortion” came from? The practice of visiting the doctor’s office after hours for an abortion and entering through the alley way entrance. You see Biggz most abortions were performed in doctor’s offices and were probably considerably safer than the “legal” ones today as doctor’s had to be very careful not to get caught. No need now to be so cautious, as we see with Carhart. Midwives were also recruited and trained to perform abortions. Or they were performed in hospitals under false pretenses, i.e. “vaginal bleeding” or “health risk”, “mental health” with a wink and a nod between doctor and staff. When abortions became legal, our city abortionist just continued to do them in his office as he always had. While he didn’t advertise it was certainly no secret.
Did you know the year before Roe the abortion death rate was at an all time low? It had been steadily decreasing for years thanks to antibiotic therapy, IV and blood transfusion therapy, improved surgical techniques and sterility. The leaders of the abortion movement had to lie about the number of abortions, they in fact had no idea, and the alleged illegal abortion death rate, with the help of a compliant media to win public sympathy.
Biggz you are obviously another person taken in by the illegal abortion fallacy.
Biggz 2:52PM
As early as 1978 undercover reporters, we actually had REAL reporters in this country at one time, discovered appalling conditions in Chicago abortion clinics. No these were not backstreet, they were in Chicago’s most exclusive neighborhoods.
This is nothing new. Instead you should be asking where are the laws in Nebraska to shut down the likes of Carhart and truly protect women? Where is NOW, NARAL?
We still haven’t learned that legalizing a criminal activity has never put the criminal element out of business, its only makes their activities much easier in addition to giving them increased opportunity.
Nobody ever needs an abortion, Carla? Really? I think you are familiar with my story of selective termination to save one of my twin boys. Myself and my surviving twin NEEDED an abortion.
Any pics of inside Dr. Carhart’s clinic?
BTW, if you’re on Facebook, look up ACCON, they have pictures of the inside of the clinic. Dr. Carhart has also allowed tv crews to film inside.
Pro-Choice people have no problem with further regulation of clinics and medical personnel
And yet whenever further regulations are enacted, they sue. Funny thing about that.
Tiffany, attempting to save the lives of others and tragically losing one life in an attempt to SAVE life is not an abortion. Abortion is taking a life for the sake of taking a life- for whatever reason the mother might not want the child. Exploiting the tragedy of killing one of your babies to promote killing babies for the sake of killing babies is unfathomably evil. What’s it feel like to be the devil’s willing torque-wrench?
“The reason that there are still countless shoddy clinics like this is because abortion is NOT about helping or caring for women. Its about money, plain and simple. Why waste money cleaning up your clinic or hiring professionals when you can get away with a shack and uneducated low-paid workers? The women still flock to you for abortions so you sit back and rake in the cash. Thats what its about.”
Exactly. If I wanted to make as much money as possible, didn’t have any moral qualms, and did have a medical license, I’d become an abortionist. Get one woman on the table, do the abortion, get her out, bring in the next one. No need to waste time with any introductions or social niceties.
Women seeking abortions often feel desperate enough that a lot of them will put up with all sorts of bad behavior from abortionists. After all, if you file a complaint, everybody’s going to know you had an abortion. Many abortions take place because the woman and/or her family and friends want to hide a secret. Don’t want your parents to know you had pre-marital sex? Don’t want your husband to realize that you’re pregnant with someone else’s baby? Don’t want to get berated because you had unprotected sex? Get an abortion and the “problem” goes away. Of course, aside from the fact that a child is dead, more problems often result.
Per Biggz:
“Pro-Choice people have no problem with further regulation of clinics and medical personnel. We have a problem when this gets lumped in with regulating the access to abortion services. We all want safe, responsible, quality healthcare, with access to all options open to women protected under the law.”
Biggz,
Did you not watch the tape? Did you not hear your queen of pro-choice Tarina arguing against further regulation? NARAL has one agenda and that is to protect abortion at all costs. Many women have died at the hands of an abortionist and where is NARAL to speak for these women? NO WHERE
Where are they for the women who have a last minute change of heart and beg to not go through the procedure only to be drugged or held down against their will so the aboritonist can make his quick money?
NARAL just wants to keep their fat cat lobbyists and executives rolling in dough in their cushy chairs. They could care less about women.
Jacqueline, the five doctors in the OR didn’t accidentally end Brendan’s life. The selective termination was excatly that….a termination. During pre-op they asked me to describe what was going to be done, they wanted to make sure I knew we were ending one potential life. Just ask Les Unruh, she agreed in a tv interview that selective termination would have been banned under IM 11, the 2008 SD abortion ban.
Till Eulenspiegel
August 25th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
“I think dentists’ offices and dermatologists’ offices where you get warts removed should have to meet hospital standards too!”
I thought they did, in general. Certainly most of the outpatient providers I’ve been to that do surgeries (even minor ones) have sterile operating rooms and swinging doors in the surgical areas. I think my eye doctor’s office might even have portions of the building that come up to that snuff.
Basically, if this is a medical procedure, then it needs to be meeting a certain standard of patient care that clearly is not being met at this point.
Well I use the term back alley abortion clinics with reference to those pics right there in this story. I also believe I said back woods more than back alley in referring to Nebraska.
Yes there ARE women who NEED abortions. Even if you don’t agree with a woman right to choose you cannot dismiss the fact that abortions are medically necessary in some cases.
The PP news stories your referring to like the PPGG story is about the misuse of money in the political section of that affiliate. There would be no need for a political wing at any PP if not for the anti-choice movement. That story is about liberal elites spending too much money rubbing elbows with other San Fran liberal elites. Of course the Republicans don’t know anything about spending money on politicians for things that have nothing to do with politics…. Asian Bondage Strip Club anyone?
Kelsey – Show me one case where PP has sued at anytime about regulation of clinic standards…. They have sued many times in defense of access and the right to privacy. As I stated before PP conforms to all the same regulations that any other doctors office is subject to in your area. PPFA demands it. I completely believe that clinics such as this one should be shut down all across the country. I believe all clinics “sexual health or otherwise” should be subjected to the same standards and regulations as any other doctors office.
This would be much better for the Pro-choice side than the anti-choice side. As it is you guys can hold up this story and try to lump PP in with this type of negative situation. It is not PP’s job to regulate all abortion clinics across the country, just its own affiliates. Once again this is something PP supporters could be spending more time and money on if they were not in constant battle with anti-choicers trying to keep women’s rights in the dark ages.
Keli is right this is less of an abortion issue and more a public health codes issue. All doctors’ offices and clinics should adhere to the same set of standards that a hospital would require with regards to health codes.
P.S. Sandy – You are so wrong it’s kind of scary. Yes I did listen to that contrived, over stretched, game of connect the dots… No one is holding women down and performing abortions against their will in this country. While it is true that some women have changed their minds after the procedure has begun and been required to finish the procedure due to serious health risks to the woman, the fetus is already dead or is at the least damaged by that point. There are no surgical procedures that I know of that you can just stop after the procedure has begun. We Pro-Choice people argue against further regulation of access not health standards. Most of us have wives, daughters, and mothers too you know, and BTW I love the term Fat Cat. lol Its right out of the 1030’s
*1930’s
Abortion is about money???
From where?
Abortions are one of the cheapest invasive medical procedures a person can have? The federal government?.. Nope, they don’t subsidize abortions with federal funds. They do give federal funds to PP and a couple others for disease prevention/treatment and to distribute FREE birth control to people who couldn’t otherwise afford it. The doctors who work for PP could be making SO much more money if they were to practice almost any other type of medicine “not to mention they wouldn’t have to worry about getting shot while praying in church on Sunday…” Medical Insurance? Most people who go into a PP don’t have insurance and it’s been that way for a very long time.
I see stories on the internet about the “New Multi-million dollar abortion clinics” and how much profit it must have taken to build those buildings… The money for those buildings was donated by rich PP supporters.
If abortion is all about making money PLEASE show me where this money is and where it came from? Don’t show me some document that says the federal government gives PP money because like I said, that money does not go to pay for abortions, never has. No federal money goes to pay for abortions.
Do you have any idea how much money a plastic surgeon makes? Wouldn’t it make more since for a money driven doctor to go down that road or maybe fertility clinics, they are raking in the cash hand over fist these days. My dad’s cancer surgeon drives an Aston Martin DB9…
Kelsey – Show me one case where PP has sued at anytime about regulation of clinic standards….
It’s usually the “Center for Reproductive Rights” that brings the lawsuits. Their position is that requiring abortion facilities to meet the same standards as other ambulatory surgical centers is to “impose on them burdensome requirements which are different and more stringent than the legal requirements imposed on other medical practices.” Which, by definition, it isn’t.
Kelsey
Ah yes well these regulations they speaking of here are not about clinical standards that any other medical clinic should be subject to. These are about regulations that are a foot in the door to limiting access to abortion services. We all agree clinics should be clean, tidy, and sterile. These are called TRAP laws for a reason… just read the article you hyper-linked to…
So they (planned peoplekillers,naral, etc.) want the “legal” part but not the “safe” part? Maybe they are not so concerned for women after all…
Biggz, you’re missing my point. Yes, they begin by saying that it’s a “TRAP” and that this is about putting abortion facilities under a different standard (“more stringent than the legal requirements imposed on other medical practices”). But then what do they give as examples? Licensing and record-keeping requirements (which, contrary to their assertion, DO apply to non-abortion clinics), and requiring abortion facilities to meet ambulatory surgical center standards.
In other words:
1) A regulation is unfair when it treats abortion facilities DIFFERENTLY from other surgical centers.
2) Making abortion facilities meet the SAME standards imposed on other surgical centers is an example of such an unfair regulation.
I’ll grant that their third category– hospitalization for later-term abortions– does not have a clear parallel in other medical fields. But it is likely still the case that such a law promotes women’s safety.
Everybody has a right to live.
No one can take that away.
It was never right, it is not right, and it will never be right.
Help save innocent babies. They aren’t here to speak the truth, so we must speak it for them. And again I say, help save these babies who don’t get a chance to live, breathe, smile, dance, etc.
So the pro-life side wants it to be in regulated facilities, but don’t want it to be considered health care.
The pro-choice side wants it to be considered health care, but doesn’t want to work under strict regulation.
Is this a quick summation of the two sides?
Biggz….again, if you read “Blood Money” by former clinic owner Carol Everett she explains VERY CLEARLY how abortion is VERY profitable.
Tiffany I’m so sad that you as a mother feel the need to champion the death of other women’s children. And your own. Thats really heartbreaking.
Nick:
I have to wonder–what kind of a person would allow a loved one to go to a “clinic” that has little to no oversight? As a direct result of this lack of regulation abortion mills throughout the country are being closed down due to reports of filthy conditions and incompetent and poorly trained staff and doctors with histories of abuse. The “patients” in these clinics may not be “cut” but they sure as hell are being wounded.
I’m not championing anyones death. Every single one of their stories is painful. Myself and the other women who have shared their heart-wrenching stories of abortions do so to help education the public that sometimes abortions are needed, and not every abortion is performed because it’s unwanted. I know many women who decided they could not afford another baby at that time, they wanted the baby, but couldn’t afford one. Perhaps you wouldn’t mind sending me your phone number and I’ll get them in touch with you, you can pay the medical bills, (because they don’t have health insurance), buy them diapers, formula, a crib, pay for daycare, the list could go on and on. And in case you were wondering, they don’t want to put their flesh and blood up for adoption.
I have many friends who aborted because their baby wouldn’t survive outside the womb, would never leave the NICU. Those baby were REALLY wanted, but those families couldn’t bear to watch their child die a painful death that even pain meds couldn’t control. And before you saw something ridiculous about the baby being “torn limb my limb”. That’s not always the case. The fetus gets a shot in the heart to make the heart stop beating, then the mother is induced to begin laboring. Many babies come out whole, some do not depending on the gestational age, but either way, the babies/feti do not feel pain.
http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/
Try reading some of those stories, or better yet, buy the book!
Try this Tiffany.
http://www.benotafraid.net
Your comments give me the creeps. Seriously have gooseflesh reading your claims that killing children is fine as long as can’t afford them or they might die so we better kill them.
I have many friends that have been hurt by abortion.
http://www.operationoutcry.org
the babies/feti do not feel pain.
No doubt that’s what you want to believe, but digoxin doesn’t have a 100% success rate in achieving feticide before the procedure. Failure rates vary depending on the study.
not every abortion is performed because it’s unwanted.
Your scenarios demonstrate that “want” of the child is conditional and is superceded by something unwanted.
1- they don’t want to put their flesh and blood up for adoption.
2- couldn’t bear [don’t want emotional pain] to watch their child die
3- wanted the baby, but couldn’t afford one [don’t want financial challenges]
Attaching a “wanted” label to these aborted children doesn’t change the fact that you consider them disposable. And you want to “educate the public” on the benefits of disposing wanted human beings in the service of avoiding something difficult or painful? I’m with Carla. I find your comments chilling.
Hi Tiffany, I assume that your twins had early TTTS, probably pre-22 weeks? I ask only because by mom had two sets of twins with TTTS (I know, she should play the lotto with those odds). Was the laser surgery not an option for you?
Nick,
How did the clinics get to the point where they had to be shut down? Obviously this doesn’t happen overnight. It can take months for conditions to get to such a point where closing down is necessary. Are there no laws or inspections the clinics must adhere to motivate them to keep standards up?
And in case you were wondering, they don’t want to put their flesh and blood up for adoption.
Wait, so killing their flesh and blood is somehow better than allowing someone else who may be better able than them to take care of their child?!?
That is not a defense of anything. That is a poisonous lie that has led millions of women to make a horribly wrong, tragic choice that can not be taken back.
@Tiffany — first of all, I am sorry that you lost one of your twins.
Perhaps you wouldn’t mind sending me your phone number and I’ll get them in touch with you, you can pay the medical bills, (because they don’t have health insurance), buy them diapers, formula, a crib, pay for daycare, the list could go on and on.
Tiffany, there are THOUSANDS of crisis pregnancy centers around the country offer many of these services. Your friends could have called a local chapter of CareNet or Birthright, or even Catholic Social Services. My local prolife organization recently helped a young, poor mother who was expecting twins and wanted to have an abortion because of lack of funds keep her babies. Yet prochoicers are trying to shut them down.
they don’t want to put their flesh and blood up for adoption.
I just can’t understand this line of thinking. So it’s better to have their “flesh and blood” destroyed (being dismembered or given a shot in the heart doesn’t mean much — if you’re dead, you’re dead) and discarded as “medical waste,” gone forever, than possibly be placed in a happy, loving home, where they could have an open adoption and have contact with mom? It happens all the time. My son is adopted and I don’t think he’d appreciate your comments.
I also can’t understand why abortion is called a “heartbreaking choice” when the fetus doesn’t feel pain, isn’t a person, or to some, isn’t even human.
Amelia, no the laser surgery was not an option for us, had it been we would have choose that treatment option.
Carla, sorry my comments give you goosebumps, but considering you voluntarily had an abortion, any of your comments come off as a desperate attempt to tell others that they will regret their choice. Just because you regret it, doesn’t mean everybody else does or will. If you wanted to carry that baby to term, why didn’t you go to a CPC? Why didn’t you choose adoption?
@ Tiffany
I don’t understand the terminology “potential life” that you employed to describe a child that you gave a name to “Jacqueline, the five doctors in the OR didn’t accidentally end Brendan’s life. The selective termination was excatly that….a termination. During pre-op they asked me to describe what was going to be done, they wanted to make sure I knew we were ending one potential life.” Potential is an egg or a sperm alone. Once they meet & merge a new, unique life has begun. I won’t judge you for your decision, it was & is tragic, but your son was not “potential,” he was alive & his life was ended. As for the notion that having a needle stabbed into one’s heart is not painful…I don’t think any of us can say we know it isn’t. And what about those saline abortions? You don’t think they are painful? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0pvR1v8Gjc&feature=PlayList&p=7A62B56532D6137A&index=19 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5PlZzpfHQI&feature=PlayList&p=7A62B56532D6137A&index=2 I am sure these ladies would disagree.
@Biggz
“The doctors who work for PP could be making SO much more money if they were to practice almost any other type of medicine “not to mention they wouldn’t have to worry about getting shot while praying in church on Sunday…” Does the name James Pouillon mean anything to you? http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2009/09/antiabortion_activist_shot_in.html
“P.S. Sandy – You are so wrong it’s kind of scary. Yes I did listen to that contrived, over stretched, game of connect the dots… No one is holding women down and performing abortions against their will in this country. While it is true that some women have changed their minds after the procedure has begun and been required to finish the procedure due to serious health risks to the woman, the fetus is already dead or is at the least damaged by that point. There are no surgical procedures that I know of that you can just stop after the procedure has begun. We Pro-Choice people argue against further regulation of access not health standards. Most of us have wives, daughters, and mothers too you know, and BTW I love the term Fat Cat. lol Its right out of the 1030’s”
I’m scary?
So you are saying that you know for a fact that women have only changed their minds on abortion after the procedure starts and is too late to stop? I guess the many women I have heard speaking out against abortion are liars? Many women have come forward to share their experience of wanting to get off the table and leave before any form of drugs were even introduced. Their ”choice” to change their minds was not honored. These women were being seen by drs. who drugged them against their will or told them to “shut up”, or held them down with the help of nurses only to begind the procedure. There have been stories about young women who are taken to abortion clinics and forced to abort by family members against their will. I believe there was just a law passed in some state that now makes it a crime to force women into abortion against their will. I volunteer in a CPC and heard one mother scream at her daughter (who did NOT want an abortion because she knew it would be killing her baby) that she would be kicked out of the house if she brought that “thing” home. Women are emotionally held down by people who expect them to abort their babies.
There have been former abortionists who have spoken publically about how profitable abortions are. It’s always about the money.
PS Biggz,
Don’t these photos on this thread scare you? If you are so concerned about all of the wives, daughters and mothers, out there, how about speaking out against these clinics?
Tiffany, out of curiosity, why were you unable to have this procedure performed?
My mom had two sets of TTTS twins, so I have this paranoia that it’s genetic and I’ll end up with a set myself (I know it’s not supposed to be, but then neither are ident. twins and we have a heck of a lot of those in my family). I didn’t think there were any prohibitive reason except money and severe maternal health problems.
Sorry Tiffany but I can’t pay anyone else’s medical bills. Does that mean I can’t say that killing their children is WRONG? I can’t pay for a man to visit a prostitute. Does that mean I can’t condemn rape? What a dumb argument!
At the moment my husband and I are searching for insurance we can afford. We both lost our jobs this past year and our coverage is set to expire in a few months and its grueling. We are trying to just take care of our son right now. I guess if we don’t get some income soon we are going to have to kill him. But don’t judge me Tiffany. I can’t afford him. If you judge me then I will just send you all my bills and you can pay for my son so I don’t kill him.
Tiffany…your line of thinking is WARPED, BITTER and SICK!!!!!!! Please seek therapy. And I am not saying that in a snarky way, I truly am pleading, PLEASE SEEK THERAPY. You obviously have a lot of emotions and grief and rage you need to work through. I’m not sure that coming onto a pro-life website and defending your decision to kill Brendan is going to make us pro-lifers go “Oh! She’s RIGHT! Its NOT murder. What was I thinking? Brendan was just an unimportant blob. Who cares?” Your post has just strengthened us in the fight for LIFE because no child should be sacrificed. period. Especially for such dumb reasons as finances (I understand thats not why you aborted but you defended financial stress as a reason to kill your growing unborn child).
And if I get pregnant this coming year, maternity coverage or no I will have my baby. Jobs or no, great lifestyle or no…my baby will keep his or her life. No pressure excuses the horrible act of killing a child.
Tiffany, I am familiar with your story. Your situation was heartbreaking. It was not black and white I agree. Because your other son’s life was very much in danger. I also know that there are a lot of success stories out there where twins with Twin to Twin transfusion survived. I know what I would do if it happened to me, but do I condemn you? No. I don’t condemn you for the horrible road you had to walk down or that you did what you thought you had to do to save at least one son. But you’ve gone way past that stance. Now you are arguing that it is right to kill children for convenience, for finances…for whatever reason…if you want to kill, KILL! Situations where mom or a twin’s life is in danger and abortion is a consideration is RARE RARE RARE. yet you advocate abortion on demand for any old reason under the sun! How can you be so calloused?
Can a woman say “I can no longer afford (or want to) feed and care for my children but I don’t want CPS to come take them so I will just kill them”? What is the difference if a woman says that about the child in her womb then?
Children in the womb are PEOPLE Tiffany. I think you realize that or you would not have named the son you lost. Where along the way did you lose sight of the preciousness of life to treat it so casually and with such disregard?
Sydney –
“Where along the way did you lose sight of the preciousness of life to treat it so casually and with such disregard?”
One guess -she comes to boards like this where people have criticized her own decision and have seen no gray area in what real life is. You’ve accurately seen it wasn’t black and white – but others don’t. Boards like this get polarizing then – heck, I’m actually very moderate in real life, but I come on boards like this and find myself falling further to one side because there’s really a “if you don’t fit this nice box, you are way over here!”
Just a guess – Tiffany I’m sure has a better answer…
X GOP…the problem is that she isn’t saying “Here is my story and yes abortion is murder and the only reason why it should ever be considered is when life is in danger.” but she doesn’t…she isn’t just advocating termination in situations like that (that I don’t exactly agree with anyways) but she is advocating the wanton destruction of life for any reason that a woman can conjure up. Thats calloused. Thats gross. You would think since she lived through the abortion of Brendan that she would realize the horror of it, the sorrow of it, and want to save other women from experiencing that same horror and sorrow. You would think she would caution other women not to treat abortion as a casual choice to be made for any old reason including money issues. But she doesn’t. Instead she leads women down the same dark path she traveled with nary a word of warning. How immoral and cruel!
Carla on the other hand also traveled down that dark path. But she is speaking out, warning women of the horror and sorrow that abortion brings. Carla is thinking of others because she doesn’t want them to experience the grief and guilt that she herself experienced when she lost Aubrey. How much easier it would be for Carla to be silent and say “Well its none of my business. Let these women learn the hard way like I did.” Instead she comes here with her story time and time again only to be bashed and belittled by you, Tiffany, Biggz and all the rest. Yet she is not silent. I admire Carla for being truthful and brave and selfless.
Sydney – when have I ever belittled Carla? I disagree with a lot of people, but don’t think I’ve belittled folks. Maybe I missed something – let me know.
I know a lot of pro-abortion folks have come on here and done so. I can’t say specifically you did or didn’t. I just don’t recall. So if you didn’t, then my apologies for lumping you in there. I know Biggz has and others. When Carla shares her story they jump all over her with nasty things to say, which is especially ironic coming from Biggz who is a man claiming he cares about women then telling Carla, a woman, that her abortion story doesn’t count.
I admire Carla for being truthful and brave and selfless.
Thank you for saying that about Carla, Sydney. I’d be clicking on the “like this comment” button if we had one. But the way some of the comments are going on other threads, I’d probably be clicking away at a DNFTT button a lot more :)