Maddow airing 1-hr special on Tiller tonight
Liberal MSNBC host Rachel Maddow is airing a one-hr special tonight at 9p EST about the murder of late-term abortionist George Tiller entitled, “The Assassination of Dr. Tiller.”
The subtitle provides Maddow’s angle: “New documentary looks into whether there were larger forces behind abortion doctor’s murder.” Here’s a clip, featuring a couple pro-lifers we know…
Troy Newman of Operation Rescue issued a press statement October 18 explaining why he allowed MSNBC to interview him, and I would likely have done the same thing, since I think we need to engage even those media outlets we know may not agree with us.
Yet Newman told me MSNBC misled him, never letting on it would be the obviously pro-abort commentator Maddow who ended up with his footage. She mentioned Newman’s statement on her show October 20, beginning at 1:45 on the clip, although pro-lifers will find the prior segment interesting as well…
The Kansas City Star today gives a synopsis of Maddow’s agenda:
Maddow, who co-created and narrated the film, said she did it to shed new light on the contentious case.
The film, 43 minutes long with commercial breaks, begins as a straightforward true-crime account.,,,
Then the film rewinds to tell the story of the 2 men and what led them to that fateful day….
But the film deviates often from the true-crime genre to make statements about the relationship between politics and violence.
Maddow describes “a growing sense of paranoia and anxiety” surrounding Tiller as the protests escalated….
Operation Rescue’s Troy Newman and Randall Terry, who helped lead the protests in the 1990s, and Mark Gietzen, chairman of the KS Coalition for Life, agreed to be interviewed by MSNBC.
According to a news release, Newman agreed to participate, despite reservations about Maddow’s pro-abortion-rights views, so that he could tell “the story of the tens of thousands of innocent babies killed by abortion during Tiller’s long and checkered abortion career.”
But that’s not all Newman has to say in the film. He’s shown describing at length a citywide leaflet campaign Operation Rescue undertook that linked Tiller with his “collaborators,” including area businesses such as cab companies. His account is sandwiched between quotes from Tiller’s friends and associates, who call the campaign intimidating and say it led to fears for their own safety as well as the safety of Tiller and his family.
“I don’t think they could wake up a day and feel secure in the knowledge that nothing was going to happen to them,” says Paul Ryding, who was at church the morning Tiller was shot.
Robinson, another doctor at the clinic, describes Roeder as a “rather dull guy” who was merely “reacting to an atmosphere of hatred.” She’s echoed by her colleague Sella, who says that “if the climate had not been like that… Scott Roeder would not have killed Dr. Tiller.”
In an interview with the Kansas City Star, Maddow, a Rhodes Scholar and progressive political activist, elaborated on what useful information she hoped her film would provide.
“Some folks think that extremely radical political tactics are necessary because of their strongly held views on abortion,” she said. “There are consequences for that. And those consequences have very little to do with abortion and everything to do with our tolerance for violence and extremism.”
So the pro-life movement is the first and only social justice movement in the history of the U.S. to have a violent fringe element.
In actuality the truth is just the opposite: The pro-life movement is the most peaceful social justice movement in the history of the U.S. It is ironically the very movement Maddow upholds that is the most violent “social justice” movement in the history of the U.S. To date Maddow and her ilk have enabled the killing of 50 million innocent children.
Pro-lifers must not let these intimidation tactics deter them from their work, to peacefully yet assertively press to end the heinous practice of legalized child killing.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I wonder how Maddow feels about the Stonewall riots?
I have a question for the pro-life movement. If the republicans can get the Supreme Court to rule in 2000 that George W should be President: Why in the 8 years they controlled congress and the presidency couldn’t they come
up with legislation that Bush could have easiy signed that would challenge Roe and end up on the Supreme Courts
Docket? The republican Party does not want to overturn Roe, that action would send the problem back to the 50 State legislatures where it will tie up money and man power that they want to be used at the national level. The
republicans have used pro-lifers and the catholic church for decades. Republicans have worked against the economic condition of tens of millions of Christians by waving the Pro-life flag while never intending to actually pass bills that would seriously try to stop abortion.
Bob, I’m not sure you’d find general disagreement from the pro-lifers here about the failures of the Republican Party. There is much frustration at the so-called pro-life politicians of both parties for failure to do much of anything to outlaw abortion. These people (the politicians) aren’t stupid (mostly), but like most Americans, are not really unhappy with the status quo. They pay lip service to the idea of “protecting the unborn” to get some votes, but they don’t do anything significant because they’ll lose more votes in the long run. As long as conservative pro choice voters don’t think abortion rights are in danger, they can vote for conservative pro life politicians.
Maddow calls the killing of Tiller “The Assassination of Dr. George Tiller.”
Question for Jane Maddow:
What do you think abortion is for the baby, the target of abortion?
Assassination. Execution. Slaughter. Butchery.
If you don’t understand that this is how pro-life, abortion opponents see elective, induced abortions, then you don’t understand the issue whatsoever.
Jane Maddow,
What would you have someone do if there were a gunman, say, George Tiller, who took over a school of small children, lined them up, and began shooting them?
If someon, say John Taylor, came along with a gun and shot that gunman, George Tiller, stopping the carnage by George Tiller against the children, would you, Jane Maddow, claim that “Mister John Taylor assassinated George Tiller?
If a mad man sent his army into another land and they enaged in torture, slaughter, murder, and rape of innocent men, women, children, and babies, would you, Jane Maddow, clain that the mad man has the right to engage in such heinous acts unrestrained? Would you call a nation or army which defeated the mad man’s army, killed the mad man, and rescured millions of other innocent men, women, and children, and babies, an assassin?
George Tiller slaughtered innocent children and made money off of it. He is no better than those in death camps who slaughtered Jews, Gypsies, etc., and no better than the likes of Muslim nations, such as Iran, which hangs or dismembers and butchers homosexuals.
Of course George Tiller gets more attention from Jane Maddow and President Obama than the pro-life man who was murdered shortly after George Tiller’s death.
Maddow, Obama, abortion choicers, et al, don’t care about him.
Yin and Yang, what comes around goes around, you reap what you sew.
I hope this documentary will show much of the work “Dr.” Tiller performed on his “patients” so that people can see the man for who he truly was.
@ Austin Nedved
Yes. Or the 16th Street Church bombing in Birmingham. Or the race riots that led up to it. Apparently we can blame Martin Luther King, Jr. for these things, if we wish to.
You know, I bet there were people who opposed the Civil Rights Movement who, at the time, actually tried to.
Why be surprised by or care about what one liberal and proud pervert has to about anything, to an audience of liberal and proud perverts?
Jill – there’s something you’re beginning to observe about media which is important for you to follow-up on.
The one who frames the context (in this case the program editor) wins.
Video editors and producers possess a power where they can practically make any statement appear to be a 180 in meaning from the original. Done at it’s most skillful, an interviewer will lead with one question, bring in another question which leads the respondent to answer in the context of the prior quwestion, but can be easily swapped into a different context.
James O’Keefe understood the power of editing and context. The liberal left’s attack on him was partially successful not because there was an actual incident, but merely the hint of one. They framed the context that he was wrong merely for thinking about something. This is dangerous ground.
The story that gets told most often is the one that has the most explicit, emotionally connecting, desirable narrative (coming from each person’s own self-interest).
It’s also interesting to note that someone who has been demoralized (that is, they are morally relevant) will not understand absolute consequences until they are subjected directly to them.
How about looking at Barack Obama’s “assassinations” of Taliban chiefs in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
How about looking at Bill Clinton killing thousands of people bombing five countries?
How about looking at the Israeli military’s killing of tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people in the last 60 years?
How about the millions of people killed by Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and both George Bushes?
How about the many abortionist activists and “leaders” who have admitted to killing their children?
How about the many mothers killed by criminal abortionists?
How about George Tiller’s 60,000 dead children? Don’t they count for anything?
The point is, it is ridiculous to focus on one death of a guilty person and ignore all the millions of deaths of innocent human beings.
Mike
October 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Why be surprised by or care about what one liberal and proud pervert has to about anything, to an audience of liberal and proud perverts?
Charming. Truly charming. Mike (and Jill–see today’s quote of the day reference to “radical lesbian”) You guys can’t help yourself. You try to have a nice discussion about a new tv show, but can’t resist throwing stones based on the sexual preference of the narrator. Say goodbye to more and more people who would otherwise agree with you.
Hi Hal. I rarely agree with your comments, but I think you have a point @ 10:29am. I would rather see someone described as a progressive activist who champions causes A, B, and C.
I don’t find Rachel Maddow credible and I won’t be tuning in to her documentary this evening. It has nothing to do with her sexual orientation or her political affiliation. It’s because she omits enough significant fact and detail from her reporting/commentary that I find her wasting my time. When I want to listen to a liberal slant on the news or libtalk in general, there are other much more helpful sources than her program.
Everyone knows exactly the kind of documentary Rachel Maddow turns out. Everyone knows MSNBC is a ratings ‘cellar dweller’, and this is one more desperate attempt to breath some life into an otherwise dead outlet. I think even giving them this much exposure is uneccesary, and I personally won’t do her, or the station the favor of turning on this show. I think everyone should take their kids out for dinner and ice cream and then play a board game until their bedtime. Thank God for your beautiful children tonight instead of watching this crap (because you know it will only make you mad).
ASSASSIN
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assassin?show=0&t=1288022671
1: capitalized : a member of a Shia Muslim sect who at the time of the Crusades was sent out on a suicidal mission to murder prominent enemies
2 : a person who commits murder; especially : one who murders a politically important person either for hire or from fanatical motives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin
The word assassin is derived from the word Hashshashin (Arabic: ???????, also Hashishin, Hashashiyyin, or Assassins),[3] and shares its etymological roots with hashish (pronounced /hć??i??/ or /?hć?i??/; from Arabic: ???? ?ash?sh),[4] referred to the Nizari branch of the Ism?’?l? Shia under the instruction of Hassan a?-?abba? during the Middle Ages. They were active in the fort of Alamut in Iran from the eighth to the fourteenth centuries. They also controlled castle of Masyaf in Syria. This group killed members of the elites of Muslim Abbasid, Seljuq, and Christian Crusaders élite for political and religious reasons.[5]
=====================================================================
Raishell, ‘Rhodes Scholar’ Maddcow may not be familiar with the etymology of the term ‘assassin’. Progressive liberal humanists don’t concern themselves too much with facts and and context.
We keep hearing these folks like missy maddcoww, attempting to equate pro-lifers in general and conservative christian in particular with Jew hating mass murdering muslim jihadists.
But folks like Raisehell never identify the victims of their ‘assassins’, abortionists whose combined body count in the United States alone is over 40 million.
They become apoplectic when innocent victims are inadvertently killed by our soldiers in the pursuit of muslim assassins who have demonstrated both the will and the capacity to kill as many peple as possible, regardless of their nationality, ethncity, gender, religion or age.
I will watch it just to see what its about and how she reports. I don’t know much about this reporter but I’m sure I’ll find out tonight.
And fellow pro-lifers, lets now dwell on her sexual preference, that is a seperate issue than abortion.
No, I’m not going to watch it and no, I don’t care who Rachel Maddow sleeps with.
I am, however, nervous about November 11th, Veteran’s Day, which is the day SOME deluded individuals have chosen in the past to commit acts of violence against abortion mills clinics. Please pray that nothing like this happens this year and that all protests remain PEACEFUL. Thank you!
I cannot stand to listen to Maddow, she has such an insipid personality while being as arrogant as humanly possible.
Phillymiss – I didn’t know November 11th had that distinction. That is my wedding anniversary. Picked because my husband is a teacher and he said he always wanted off work on our anniversary. Unfortunately that only worked out the first few years, now school is always in session.
Alaska Krystal October 25th, 2010 at 11:56 am
“And fellow pro-lifers, lets not dwell on her sexual preference, that is a seperate issue than abortion.”
==============================================================
Homosexuality and pre-natal homicide, though distinctly different issues, are both the spawn of a common father.
True prolifers believe that life is to be protected, in the womb and out of the womb (even an abortionist’s life).
The climate in this nation has been made even more divisive, partisan and hate-filled since the messianic, narcissistic, most pro-abortion, president ever has taken office than I can remember. I know people hated GW Bush and ‘Bill Clinton but I see a shift into even more crass, hateful dialog. All Chrisitian prolifers please continue to pray through spiritual warfare for the upcoming election, the nation and the world for repentence, salvation and deliverance.
will they also be doing a piece on the murder of pro-life activist James Pouillon .
The pro-life movement has been one of the most peaceful movements in human history. Murders have been committed, but we can count on our fingers how many since Roe v Wade and none of the perps have been encouraged by mainstream pro-lifers. Of course, no murders should be committed ever. First, it undermines our message, 2nd, it gives fodder for the pro-abortionists, and 3rd and most importantly it robs the victim of the chance to repent and convert. What if Tiller was minutes away from conversion of the spirit? We will never know. What if he was days away from becoming a pro-life team player? We will never know.
Prolifer L is correct. We must pray all the more fervently.
And for those who don’t like pro-lifers, ask yourself, do you advocate for the murder of unborn children out of spite? Then never mind our faults and imperfections, get on board and help save pregnant women and their children. You don’t have to like us to help people in your own community.
One thing wwe can be sure this documentary will accomplish is to renew the hateful rhetoric and smear tactics of the rabidly proabort left against prolifers, which has already begun on Twitter before the program has even aired. No doubt they are all frothing at the mouth in hopes of new accusations to level against our side. They shriek when an abortionist goes down for some criminal charge or other and slander prolife and demand that such unethical ‘doctors’ not be made the standard for all abortionists, yet they have no trouble equating each and every one of us with Scott Roeder. Going by their logic, each and every one of them is directly responsible for the cold blooded shooting of jim Pouillion. Try saying that, and watch them balk, but it’s never an issue when we’re all lumped in with Roeder. Typical double standard, which this documentary will undoubtedly further. Be watching for it.
Nick, that was uncalled for. And not analogous to anything.
And she no doubt will totally ignore the fact that the man routinely did to babies what the Left considers it cruel and inhumane to do to a convicted murderer. She’ll leave out that these were mostly VIABLE babies, killed and then delivered, macerated and rotting, into a toilet in the basement.
Homosexual behavior is a highly destructive and immoral act. It is an abuse of the gift of sexuality, no different than the abuses of contraception and sex outside of marriage (which spawns abortions). Homosexual activity and abortions are both, and equally, morally bankrupt behaviors.
Mike, can’t let your comments go without saying I completely disagree. 100%. I’ll stop there to avoid violation of the rules.
what Kim Jacobson….I am waiting for that documentary. I’d rather watch the Blu Ray of astroboy that I rented.
Correct me if I’m wrong Mike, but I strongly suspect your comments are based on scripture.
If that is the case I must assume that you are also against women voting or working outside the home. Is this correct?
You would also do no shopping or eating out on Sundays. Is this also correct?
That’s a good movie Liz. I’ve got an Astro Boy doll. I loved the old television series!
While I only saw parts of the documentary while channel surfing, it was interesting that two of the three cab services would not transport women to Tiller’s clinic, the FedEx man would not pick up or deliver packages for the clinic, the company said this was his option, and garbage collectors wouldn’t collect the trash. Now, did the Tiller people think this was because of the OR demonstrators or did they think it might, just might, have something to do with what went on at the clinic? Can anyone help me with this?
Nick,
Did someone on this website condone the shooting of Tiller?
No one has mentioned this innocent young women who was violated, became pregnant and then died an agonizing death while her mother took her for a late term abortion in Tiller’s mill. She had Down syndrome, and Tiller has killed thousands like her just before birth. Why should her death bother him. She was only 19.
JUSTICE FOR CHRISTIN GILBERT!
http://justiceforchristin.com/
Nick I think such a despicable comment should get you banned off of this blog. Jill and mods please do not let him get a pass with a veiled threat. If you feel he is threatening Jill please report him. No one should get away with threats ever.
too late to start movie now….gotta watch it tomorrow.
Jim Poulin, the pro life protester that was murdered on september 11th last year….his murder won’t get a documentary. How about the victims of the Fort Hood shooting? There won’t be a documentary on that either (at least not done by Mad(c)ow)
I know plently of gay & lesbian’s who are pro-life.
Just because someone is a label doesn’t mean they support abortion or think it is ok.
I just think labeling & name calling is unnesessary when people make the headlines.
Nick,
Did they include any of Tillers awards he received from NARAL for his ingenuity injecting womens wombs with saline to burn the baby inside and out? Pro-aborts are a sick bunch. Mary, I wouldn’t say I condone it but I do think Tiller ‘had it coming’ so to speak. Thinking of how those babies choked on his saline injections is reason enough for me to condone it. Unlike Roeder though, I wouldn’t consider killimg Tiller myself unless he done his handiwork toone of my unemancipated daughters or killed one of my own kids.
Nick said, “How long will the violence remain totally one sided? When will we see counterterror? Does anyone think the answer is never?”
Nick, Are you thinking of going after Roeder. I am sure he would like to meet you. I don’t think you wanna run into Paul Hill, he is in heaven surrounded by the angels of the babies you pro-aborts have aborted. Besides, I don’t think you would be welcome there. But you can rest easy. I don’t see any major violence erupting from babies fighting back against you here on earth. They spend all their time snuggling inside their mother’s womb and don’t even realize guys like you exist. But for guys like you and Tiller being out on the prowl mother’s wombs would be safe places.
Nick 12:57am
You’re not serious, right? I just don’t want to step in it.
Exactly what did the sign say? The shooter had no way of knowing the man was PL, even though he spent much time sitting there with his PL signs? Like Roeder, this killer was another deranged human being. People are killed all the time by deranged human beings. Deranged human beings represent no one but their own sick twisted minds. If Pouillon’s death does not count as PC terror, then you must agree that Tiller’s death does not count as PL terror.
Come to think of it Nick,
Did PL people blather hysterically about a PC plot when Pouillon was killed? Compare that to the hysterics and dramatics of the PC side when Tiller was.
No, PL people were considerably more rational, not looking to turn the shooting by a deranged killer to our political benefit. We are rational and sensible enough to know deranged killers represent no one but their own twisted selves. PC people and organizations were quick to distance themselves from this action, fine. But it also kind of spoiled the “victim” image the PCs love to portray when the violence suddenly became two sided.
Nick is a well-established troll, y’all; don’t feed him.
Nick isn’t a scientist.
Nick, for whatever reason, idolizes those who murder babies. He seems to have been deeply affected by the death of one of his heroes.
But we were too. No genuine pro-lifer can abide the muder of any human being, not even the worst among us such as Tiller. Roeder acted in his own name, not ours. God loved George Tiller too.
Nick is twisted and has descended to the same level as Roeder, only he hasn’t fallen as far because he started out as a cheerleader for killing babies.
Roeder was not deranged Mary. Don’t be PC to the point that you deny the rationale for him taking such a desperate action. I thought my point about babies gasping and coughing while trying to breathe saline injections proved that point beyond argument. Now if Scott Roeder had captured Tiller and pulled his arms and legs off in a torture chamber or if he had stabbed him in the head with a scissors and sucked his brains out or if he had put Tiller through repeated waterboarding using a highly basic saline, I would agree that performing those actions is deranged. But he didn’t do any of those things. Quite to the contrary, Roeder had rationally decided that if Tiller were allowed to live; Tiller would have continued to repeatedly done those deranged things to innocent babies.
Isn’t Nick the same person as SOMG, who was banned from here? The veiled threats sure sound familiar. Mods, can you compare IP addresses and providers? If they were the same person, then why would Nick still be permitted to post here?
Actually, the guy who killed Jim Pouillon was on a rampage that day and had already murdered another man, and it’s uncertain whether this was pro-choice violence, per se:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5304025-504083.html
Regardless, no peaceful protester should be the target of such violence. It’s insane.
A certifiable nut-job kills a death culture icon and the US media wet themselves trying to whip up hysteria that this was a planned and calculated asassination driven by secret evil powers.
A certified nut-job nearly kills a Catholic Bishop and the media bury the story deep within their pages, and none of their reprobate editors offer a single syllable of commentary.
Both crimes were nutjobs acting independently. Since the new definition of the word “news” is to fabricate stories around events to advance a position, the non-government media should spin it as an execution attempt made by the Ted Turner.
News = Lies
MSNBC, and Rachel Madcow’s audience has dwindled to such low numbers, that I think the only ones tuning in are right wingers, republicans, and other “enemies of the state” that are curious to see what nonsense they will spew next.
No one takes them seriously anymore.
Rachael C., all:
I mentioned this in a comment on another post a week or two ago but don’t expect everyone to read everything: We’ve known Nick was SOMG from the get-go and decided not to immediately ban him so as to potentially retrieve more fodder for the FBI in NY, in whose jurisdiction SOMG resides. I forwarded the agent assigned to SOMG’s case his most recent comment this morning.
Thanks,
J
No genuine pro-lifer can abide the muder of any human being, not even the worst among us such as Tiller. Roeder acted in his own name, not ours. God loved George Tiller too.
I agree, doc. Killing Tiller was wrong. As much as I hate abortion, two wrongs never make a right. And I don’t think that Jill wants to die just yet.
Beating up people is okay, though, especially obnoxious fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers*
*only joking folks, only joking!
Sorry, but you cannot be 100% pro-life and deny that homosexual behavior is sinful and destructive at the same time. Just like you cannot be pro-life and support contraception, for that is an oxymoron as well. According to research, homosexual behavior is one of the most dangerous and life threatening lifestyle choices one can engage in. The truth is the truth. If you love a homosexual, pray for them and get them the help they need. If they cannot change their disorder, then help them embrace celibacy. That is the just the way it is.
Mike, what are you trying to do, get me banned? I’ll do everything within my power to ignore you and your hateful and ignorant comments.
I’m sorry Hal, but what part was hateful and ignorant? I neither hate homosexuals, nor am ignorant of them. In fact, I love them very much and seek only the best for them. I know that homosexuality is a disorder, and a terrible cross to bear. I also know that there is wonderful help available to them change (Courage Apostolate, PFOX, etc) and that they can also embrace celibacy as well. I also know that homosexual behavior is immoral, sinful, and destructive to body, mind, and soul. No one who truly loves homosexuals would ever enable them to remain in destructive lifestyles, where their risk of disease, abuse, and death is exponentially greater and where their very souls are in grave danger. To love means telling the truth.
I also know that human beings are not defined by their sexuality. We are children of God, and we all have to live by the same rules. Sex outside of marriage (between one man and one woman for life) is rightfully forbidden. If one does not wish to marry, then a life of celibacy is the other option, and it is a wonderful and liberating option as well. Those are the facts of life. Any deviation from those leads to sin, depression, and destruction.
@Megan:
Regardless, no peaceful protester should be the target of such violence. It’s insane.
I agree 100 percent.
Not long ago, a group of neo-Nazis, Klansmen (sorry, they like being called Klanspersons now) were protesting and some lefty kids from ARA (Anti-Racist Action) showed up and tried to provoke a fight. If it wasn’t for the cops, there might have been some bloodshed.
As much as I hate the Klan, et. al, they 1) were being peaceful, and 2) have the right to free speech.
“Those are the facts of life.”
Those are not facts. They are opinions. And they’re bad ones. I am thankful there are, indeed, many more options than those you propose.
This is exactly the third thing I agree with Rachel Maddow doing (The other two are her being a guest on the Colbert Report and complimenting the Pope’s shoes): she is showing us the worse facets of the pro-life movement for us to be aware of. Like it or not, folks, there are crazies among us, crazies who like us believe in equality for the unborn, but who react violently in both words and actions. I’m GLAD she’s showing this. Even if they will exaggerate it, they would have NOTHING to make a documentary about there had never been someone who called them self ‘prolife’ who picked up a gun and shot an abortionist. I can never, ever agree with violent tactics such as that. Even if its not killing people, harassment and name-calling has never helped stop anything, it only makes those committing those actions look worse. Creating hit lists for abortionists, finding out where they live, harassing them and their families-how does that save the babies? How? How does screaming ‘baby-killer’ and other insults actually do anything to stop the baby killing? These are actions based purely on emotion.
The sane people in the pro-life movement who resort to peaceful prayer outside of abortion mills, who do actual helpful things like raise money for maternity homes and crisis pregnancy centers need to be aware of the the crazies in the pro-life movement, so that WE can be the ones to point out the error of their ways, and not liberal haters like Rachael Maddow who will take the truth and exaggerate it. Instead of making the excuse that we aren’t the first who had violent fringe movements, we should make it a point to condemn violent actions, and condemn people who say things that encourage violent emotions. If WE were the first one’s to call out the crazies in our movement and remedy their crazy, then people like Rachael Maddow wouldn’t have to make documentaries like this. Its crazies like that who make the rest of us look bad. We can criticize liberals and pro-abortion people for calling us ‘domestic terrorists’ all we want, but if there had never been an abortion clinic bombing or abortionists killing, then we would never have been called that. But the truth is what it is.
No, Hal, I’m very sorry, but those ARE facts in terms of living a moral and healthy life, and one that abides with Church teaching and the Natural Law. The other “options” are those that deny a good…they are not true options but rather lies. Please, do not get sucked in. Seek Jesus, and give your burdens to Him. Take on His yoke, for it is far lighter and less burdensome than the world’s. I take up my cross daily to follow Him, and He changed my life to the point where I do not even recognize my former, highly destructive self. The same can be true for homosexuals too.
Mike, here’s a hint at how different you and I are. I’d rather my daughters were gay than Christian. Much rather.
Hal, I am sorry to hear that, and I will pray for you and your daughters. I will ask for the intercession of Our Blessed Mother, who helped me overcome sexual disorder and lust and lead me to the purity of her Son, Jesus Christ. Never before has there been so much peace and joy in my life, to the point where all that came before is obscured by darkness and pain. Homosexuality is a cruel master if you allow it to be in control, but God is the loving Father, and only in Him are all things possible. Sexuality is a gift from Him, with a very specific and powerful purpose, But like all things in this fallen world, it can become twisted by sin. Contraception and homosexual behaviors are two ways in which one of the most precious and beautiful gifts is spoiled and destroyed. Man and woman in the image and likeness of God are meant to come to Him, either in celibacy or in union with each other. When in union, and open to life, God shows us Himself, a beautiful union of love that is naturally fruitful. When that union is twisted or closed to life, it no longer reflects God, and becomes a source of pain, suffering, and darkness.
Mike, I’m glad you have found peace and joy. I have too. We’re lucky. Best wishes to you,
Hal
Mike, just read a moving manifesto from an Anglican Bishop:
http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com/2009/10/manifesto-from-our-friend-bishop-john.html
I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is “an abomination to God,” about how homosexuality is a “chosen lifestyle,” or about how through prayer and “spiritual counseling” homosexual persons can be “cured.” Those arguments are no longer worthy of my time or energy. I will no longer dignify by listening to the thoughts of those who advocate “reparative therapy,” as if homosexual persons are somehow broken and need to be repaired. I will no longer talk to those who believe that the unity of the church can or should be achieved by rejecting the presence of, or at least at the expense of, gay and lesbian people. I will no longer take the time to refute the unlearned and undocumentable claims of certain world religious leaders who call homosexuality “deviant.” I will no longer listen to that pious sentimentality that certain Christian leaders continue to employ, which suggests some version of that strange and overtly dishonest phrase that “we love the sinner but hate the sin.” That statement is, I have concluded, nothing more than a self-serving lie designed to cover the fact that these people hate homosexual persons and fear homosexuality itself, but somehow know that hatred is incompatible with the Christ they claim to profess, so they adopt this face-saving and absolutely false statement
Hal, I’m sorry, but those are lies. The truth is clear and final. Choosing to ignore it will not make it go away, and will never lead to happiness. I will pray for you as you continue your journey, and it is my sincere hope that you will turn towards Christ before your final hour, and witness the truth yourself. The gift of sexuality has a powerful, but finite purpose, and is not be abused outside of the confines of an open-to-life marriage of one man and one woman for lite. All else, is a destructive lie.
Hal, let me please ask you this. If I told you that I supported your involvement homosexual behavior, fully believing (whether you believe or not) that it was dangerous and destructive for your body, mind, and soul, would that be honest and loving of me? Would you rather I lie to you? Lying to someone means that you really DON’T care about them, ultimately, but only about yourself and how they feel about you. It is the ultimate narcissism. Would I be acting in a loving manner towards you if I told you it was okay to continue to abuse drugs (if you did or did not is irrelevant)? Would I be loving towards your children if I allowed them to obtain abortions if they really wanted them, knowing how destructive such things are? Love is not politeness nor mere kindness. That is vapid and shallow. Love means telling the truth, whether it is popular or not, because loving someone means you care about their well-being both here and in eternity. I love you, Hal, and I care that you are well here and in eternity. Because of that, I have to tell you the truth, which seems painful to both of us. Do you think I enjoy making people angry and having them call me a bigot and an ignoramus? Not anymore than you enjoy disciplining your children and causing them pain…but we do so because it is GOOD for them and because we LOVE them. Do you really believe that lay people, priests, nuns, and bishops who speak the truth about sexuality actually hate homosexuals? Really? When those same people are often the ONLY ones to minister to them in AIDS hospices? If we hated them, we would not have anything to do with them. But the opposite is true. We’re always around sinners, because we are sinners too, but we know the truth and want to share it with everyone who suffers. Why do you think we speak about against abortion, and pray on the sidewalks of their clinics? Because we hate them? If we hated them, we would never go near them. We do so, because we love them, and we want them to know the truth and to change.
Mike, I guess the short answer is I do believe your motives are good. But I also believe all your ideas are about as wrong as they can be. As you say, I owe it to you to tell you the truth about that. We only have one life to live, and I wouldn’t want you to spend all of it so misguided. So, I guess I must love you too ;)
It is not possible for something to be good and, at the same time, untrue. Only the truth is good, because as we know, only God is good and true. All that is good and true here is a reflection of Him. If my intentions are good, then they are true. If my intentions are bad, then they are not true. This life we know here is not the only life we have. We have eternal life, and it is far more precious than anything and everything of this world. As such, it is far too important to play fast and loose with. I just wanted you to know that. Thank you for the conversation, and God Bless. ~Mike