Jivin J’s Life Links 11-15-10
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- University of GA student Samantha Shelton is extremely confused. She somehow thinks a Center for Bio-Ethical Reform/Genocide Awareness Project display showing the remains of aborted children violated her university’s code of conduct by “‘infring[ing] upon the rights, privacy, or privileges’ of women who have exercised their right to terminate their pregnancy,” also claiming:
Our rights — the right to be gay, the right to show our religion, our right to terminate a pregnancy, our right to walk through Tate Plaza and our right to enjoy a Chick-fil-A sandwich without the images of dead babies on our minds — were disturbed.
She never explains how these rights were infringed upon. The only “right” she seems to argue was violated was her “right” not to be disturbed.
- Joseph Knippenberg responds to a Politico article which asked if abortion was the reason some Republican candidates for U.S. Senate lost:If I were to draw a lesson from the evidence before us, it isn’t that abortion is a winner or wave-stopper for Democrats, or that Republicans need to modulate their pro-life positions in order to win office. It’s that Republicans have to find a way (which has nothing to do with abortion) to win over more African-American and Hispanic voters. That’s been done before and can surely be done again.
In the meantime, if Democrats want to strengthen their connection with roughly one-third of the electorate by emphasizing their strongly pro-choice position, well, who am I to stand in their way?
- A Planned Parenthood in Lawrence, KS has closed because of lack of interest in their services. According to KS pro-life groups, the Lawrence location offered RU-486 chemical abortions:Planned Parenthood did not return calls Friday. But a sign posted in the window of the Lawrence office… said that location closed Aug. 31.
“It appears the need for our services is not as great as it once was and it is no longer financially feasible to continue offering those services,” the notice said. “We are sorry for the inconvenience this may cause you.”
- At Public Discourse, Helen Alvare writes that abortion law should be family law, as opposed to constitutional law:Questions about “abortion and the law” are usually seen as matters of constitutional law. Constitutional law, however, seems ill-suited. This is not only because the U.S. Supreme Court discovered a “constitutional right” for something that had been banned by most states for most of the nation’s history. It is also because the “privacy” right encompassing abortion frames the issue as a struggle between the state and the woman over her right to define her life, her future, or even her “concept …of the universe,” in the famous words of the Casey Court. But it is becoming increasingly apparent that abortion is about family relationships, not simply a contest between the state and a woman who happens to be pregnant.
Nov.15, 2010 1:00 pm |
Blogs |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
What do pictures of aborted children in public do to “stop” anyone from being gay or showing their religion? Nothing. That argument is so nonsensical, I’m a little surprised she actually tried to make it.
If she thinks she has a right to eat a sandwich without pictures of dead babies in the visual vicinity, she should sit in for a few sessions of the First Amendment class I’m taking this semester.
Interesting how she uses both “the right to terminate a pregnancy” and “dead babies.” So they’re babies, but it’s okay to “terminate” them.
HOW, again – are her rights being violated? My rights are being violated (somehow – ha) by having to read such a drivel filled opinion. Wow, she is hate filled…how sad someone so lovely is so brainless. AND how is comparing death of Jews in German concentration camps to the millions aborted children wrong? Wow…
Anytime you want to do something, just put the word “right” in front of it and instantly everyone has to bend to your will. I have the right not to have to read the annoying Obama bumper stickers still left on people’s cars. How long do I have to tolerate my rights being infringed upon? Don’t I have a right not to look at annoying old bumper stickers?! It affects MY appetite, you know.
“AND how is comparing death of Jews in German concentration camps to the millions aborted children wrong? Wow…”
I don’t know, why don’t you ask a concentration camp survivor how they could possibly be offended at people comparing the Holocaust to abortion. Are they just unreasonable for being offended by that?
“Anytime you want to do something, just put the word “right” in front of it and instantly everyone has to bend to your will. I have the right not to have to read the annoying Obama bumper stickers still left on people’s cars. How long do I have to tolerate my rights being infringed upon? Don’t I have a right not to look at annoying old bumper stickers?! It affects MY appetite, you know.”
Tell me about it. There are a bunch of people who think that fetuses and embryos have “rights” too. What’s up with that?
Oh, cry me a river. I see things that are annoying and/or offensive all the time. There’s no way of avoiding it, unless I move under my bed.
Commentary by Bryan Kemper
Note: Bryan Kemper is the founder and president of Stand True Ministries, a Christ-centered pro-life group.
November 10, 2010 (bryankemper.com) – I have heard many people cry foul whenever any pro-lifer uses the Jewish Holocaust or slavery in America as a comparison to abortion. Many times at my talks someone will scold me during question-and-answer time, claiming to be offended that I would use such a comparison.
The problem they have is not really the fact that a comparison is being made to one of these horrific tragedies; after all, we build museums, memorials and reminders of what happened to make sure something like the Jewish Holocaust will never happen again. The problem really is that we have elevated what they consider to be a blob of tissue to personhood status.
If comparison in and of itself were the problem, then we would not go to such great lengths to educate society about what happened. The reason places like Auschwitz are open for the public is to guarantee that we understand the horror of what took place in the death camps.
This is precisely the reason we use such imagery. We want to the world to understand that what makes us so sick about Jewish Holocaust is precisely what makes us sick about the Abortion Holocaust. We talk about the Dred Scott Supreme Court Decision because we want people to see that Roe v. Wade is just as despicable.
The same reason these people are so upset about pro-lifers using these comparisons is the very reason we use them: personhood. We have a duty to use the tools that history has given us to educate future generations about the bloodshed that has already destroyed the lives of over 52,000,000 innocent American baby boys and girls.
Dred Scott declared that human persons with black skin were not actually human persons, but only 3/5 human. Adolf Hitler and the Nazis decided that human persons who were of Jewish heritage were not actually human persons, but some kind of pest or rodent that needed exterminating. Roe v. Wade pronounced that human persons who were in the first nine months of their human development were not human persons unless their mother decided they were.
How can we not have learned our lessons about trying to redefine personhood? How is it that we still have audacity to play God and strip away personhood rights from another group of people, this time simply because of their age?
We know that skin color does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human no matter what shade their skin is. We know that nationality does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human not matter where they come from. We should also know that age does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human from the moment they start living until the day they die.
Some try to claim that a human being does not start living until nine months after his or her development starts, which really does not make any sense at all. From the very second the development of a human being starts, the thing developing is a human being. These human persons cannot suddenly become another species; they remain human beings throughout their development. That development starts the moment the sperm and egg unite and ends when that human person dies. From zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult to senior, the human being cycles through different stages of his or her life, until natural death.
The fact is these comparisons have to be made in order to show the full scope of the tragedy that took place on January 22, 1973. I would argue that we should be offended if we don’t compare these events and use these historical tools to show the world the truth about the Abortion Holocaust.
It is obvious that we have not yet learned from the unthinkable acts of human destruction in history and the ignorance that led to such devastation. We are obligated to take these lessons and teach people the truth in hopes we can end the plague of child killing that is abortion.
I would go as far as saying, “How dare we not compare the Abortion Holocaust to the American Slave Trade, the Jewish Holocaust or any other catastrophic evil in history?”
Tell me about it. There are a bunch of people who think that fetuses and embryos have “rights” too. What’s up with that?
Maybe you should ask your priest. Seeing as you’re supposedly Catholic and everything.
“Maybe you should ask your priest. Seeing as you’re supposedly Catholic and everything.”
I have found that priests typically are not well-versed in the minutiae of the law. Rights, after all, are a legal construct.
March 17, 2006
Letters to the Editor
The Lexington Herald-Leader
To the Editor:
In response to the Feb. 1 article, “Frankfort rally to highlight the ‘holocaust’ of abortion”:
As an organization committed to protect the memory and legacy of those murdered in the Holocaust, we take umbrage when people use Holocaust analogies to promote their particular political views.
While Holocaust analogies generate headlines and get attention, they do little in the service of truth, history or memory. When commentary writer Melissa Jones says that abortion makes the Holocaust appear “mild” in comparison, she, knowingly or unknowingly, undermines the historical truth of the Holocaust as a singular event in human history.
Statements of this variety are offensive and betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of the Holocaust.
As the ranks of Holocaust survivors recede every day, and with some world leaders still attempting to paint the Holocaust as fiction, we need to reject false comparisons to genocide and adopt a more civil tone in our national dialogue
Sincerely,
Bettysue Feuer
ADL Cleveland Regional Director
http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20060319-Lexington+Herald+.htm
The Christian pro-life connection of the holocaust to abortion underscores why the majority of American Jews are pro-choice.
Abortion is murder. Healthy children have been murdered by the millions. That’s a lot of blood. Referring to human children by other names does not make them into any other kind of creatures. Shakespear wrote that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. A child, murdered, and called by another name such as fetus or embryo, is still a child.
Typical. Pro-aborts think they have the right to NOT be offended in any way. Yeah, good luck with that! Its called LIFE. You’re gonna be offended now and then. Learn to deal with it or you’re gonna put yourself in an early grave from high blood pressure.
“Our rights — the right to be gay, the right to show our religion, our right to terminate a pregnancy, our right to walk through Tate Plaza and our right to enjoy a Chick-fil-A sandwich without the images of dead babies on our minds — were disturbed.”
….This is probably one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever read in my life. This was written by a university student? Seriously?
What I find ironic is that she is so upset by the pictures themselves, but not by the murder of the children in these pictures (ie, the actions that resulted in these pictures). It doesn’t make a bit of sense.
“Tell me about it. There are a bunch of people who think that fetuses and embryos have “rights” too. What’s up with that?”
Yeah, those darn pro-lifers and their understanding of basic biology. *sigh*
“The Christian pro-life connection of the holocaust to abortion underscores why the majority of American Jews are pro-choice.”
What? So you are taking your revenge out on the preborn because you are angry at Christian prolifers for making this comparison? Ugh!!
There is Lil’ Bettysue
Speaking for the American Jew
She’s pissed at me so what can she do?
She’ll promote the killing of the innocent new
Betty really has no frickin’ clue
Because she has forgotten what is Right and True
I agree with you Sydney M, being offended is such a ‘so what’ scenario. Like I said before, I may be offended by what you say but it’s not like I’m gonna wake up with leprosy or something.
Of course if it turns out that the information on the posters is less than accurate or not a true represenation of what they claim to be, that would be wrong.
Aligning abortion with the holocaust is a despicable act. Pure and simple.
I have found that priests typically are not well-versed in the minutiae of the law. Rights, after all, are a legal construct.
And proabort ‘Catholics’ are not typically well-versed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
At least, the priests I’ve known don’t claim to be lawyers.
The comparison is not to negate the Holocaust, slavery and other autocracies – it’s to say that humankind still does not understand the beauty, dignity and innate worth of the human at any stage – grown, child, Black, Jew, Man, Woman, able-bodied, disabled, pre-born, elderly, poor, rich and everything in between.
As soon as humans defends every human no matter their status – we will finally get it.
Our rights — the right to be gay, the right to show our religion, our right to terminate a pregnancy, our right to walk through Tate Plaza and our right to enjoy a Chick-fil-A sandwich without the images of dead babies on our minds — were disturbed.
How you can equate the right to be gay, to practice religion, walk in public or enjoy a sandwich with the right to murder another human being is beyond me. And to NOT be disturbed about killing a fellow human being? What planet is this chick on?
joy, I agree!
What planet is this chick on?
The same one the German church was on when they ignored what was going on around them because it might disturb their comfortable way or life and way of thinking. Sing a little louder…
oh – and the minutiae of the law is not the most important thing here – following Christian Church law is more important.
Yes we should respect the law, and work our hardest to repeal immoral law. After all Christ wanted us to repay what is Caesar to Caesar, and to God what is God’s.
What do we think God thinks of abortion? And what would he want us to do to save the innocent? To save society? to save souls?
And for those who are not religious – why should an individual or society not try to undo an immoral law? One that causes so much destruction? Should we not stand by the side of EVERY human – no matter size, dependency, location and function and help them without purposely ending their life?
Or do we stand by when the bigger, stronger end the lives of those smaller and weaker? Holocaust, Slavery, Sexual Usury, Scientific experimentation, torture, etc. etc.
We certainly can do better.
“What do we think God thinks of abortion? And what would he want us to do to save the innocent? To save society? to save souls?”
What makes you so sure that God has a position on abortion at all?
Because humankind is God’s creation – and He LOVES His creation – all of it.
See Genesis. Good for those who read the Hebrew Scriptures as well as the New Testament.
And for those who do not want to look to God for guidance in their life (which in my opinion is a shame), I did provide a humanistic answer not predicated on God.
Because God LOVES us and wants what is best for us. He doesn’t just Love those who have the power to kill others. He loves those who are being killed as well. Who are you to kill or support the killing of those God loves? Did Jesus directly tell you that it was OK for you to pick and choose who He should LOVE and care about? Did He tell you he is indifferent to those who are smaller than you?
ALL OF US JOAN. God Loves all of his children! You, me and his beautiful preborn children.
If you don’t know what God thinks about abortion, you don’t know God. If you can’t get to Mass, at least open up a Bible. When you open up the bible, read it. Then pray. Alot. He hears you.
If we are supposed to love our neighbor and treat others as ourselves – aren’t the pre-born living in our midst? Our tiniest neighbors? Some right under our own roof, beneath our ribs.
Why not ask God to make it plain to you the status of the unborn as our human neighbors. Be true, be patient, be honest, be loving.
Love all of our human neighbors, including those in the womb…
I don’t claim to “know” God, and I don’t think much of anyone who does. Doing so is absolute arrogance. There is not an issue that falls under human jurisdiction where God is relevant, just as we wouldn’t think to interject our judgment into the matters of the supernatural.
Yes – I am a fool for God, but I am not arrogant.
I don’t know everything about God, I do not know Him perfectly or correspond to Him perfectly, but I do know He loves me, you, everyone. And He loves us so much not to impose himself on us and force us to love him in return. That is free-will.
And if you allow Him in, fully, you will understand. That is not arrogance. That is TRUST. That is holding God to His Word. That is loving Him abundantly.
Arrogance, no. Love, yes. Try it – you might like it (quoting an old commercial).
I would love it if everyone tries on His love. Amazing.
Going to bed – now I need to get my rest after an amazing day and recovery.
Peace.
I don’t claim to “know” God, and I don’t think much of anyone who does.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 – “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.”
John 1:18 – “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.”
1 John 2:14 – “I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.”
Doing so is absolute arrogance. There is not an issue that falls under human jurisdiction where God is relevant,
Do you believe it perhaps arrogant to claim God is irrelevant in/to the decisions of mankind?
just as we wouldn’t think to interject our judgment into the matters of the supernatural.
You’re joking. Right? People are continually judging the perceived and/or actual actions of God. Especially those who are angry at God for doing something they believe is against His perceived character or angry at Him because they have to blame SOMEONE, and it is easier than blaming themselves.
The commenter is a Muslim. That’s why it doesn’t know the teachings and why it thinks a priest doesn’t know whether red means stop or go (cuz that’s a legal construct). See in the real world, priests actually walk around, and vote, and drive, and go to the store to buy shoes. They don’t live in a bubble without television or internet. Although most priests don’t have a law degree (some might!), most know the same basics as the rest of us. Murder, for example, is against the law. The murder of children is especially against the law. Temporarily we are dealing with a legal system that flouts itself. But we humans have a knack for healing. I’m confident that abortion will again take its seat in obscurity.
It was all about the economy folks, go back to sleep…sshhh….
“I have found that priests typically are not well-versed in the minutiae of the law. Rights, after all, are a legal construct.”
Really, you have talked to enough priests on legal matters to know that the typical priest doesn’t know much about laws? That alone is pretty surprising. Most priests are pretty well educated and not just in theology. The whole tradition of the common law comes from the Bible, so I would expect priests to know a fair amount of law. Rabbis know the law very well. Most have studied it all of their lives.
“The whole tradition of the common law comes from the Bible” – that simply is not true.
“so I would expect priests to know a fair amount of law” – why, do they study civil or statutory law much at the seminary or in theology courses?
When you want to get to know someone and find out what they think about issues, you need to make time to spend together. If you spend enough time together, you may just become friends.
How much time do you spend getting to know Jesus, joan? I assume you believe in Him since you go to the two Big Masses, right? You wouldn’t lie about something like being Catholic would you?
Jesus wants to be your Friend and there are signs everywhere that He is calling you if you would look with your heart. You’re not visiting here and bringing up God by accident are you?
Ditto – and how many spend time knowing their priests and finding out where law comes from. The Natural Law came before any society construct – and many of our laws are based on that.
Laws should protect every person, not just some. They are to provide order in society, a framework of governance. They should be just and good, although we know many laws that are not. And not only in our country, but others also.
Joan – maybe you should have some friends that are truly following the Church’s teaching. Maybe you would realize that most of them have an inescapable joy – even in the midst of trial and suffering. Maybe they are on to something.
And before you completely write off a whole class of people – the unborn, the religious, the devoted, the pro-lifers, please get to know some personally. You should then see that these people are dedicated, good-hearted, generous, loving and want to help others, even with the money and material goods they have for their family.
And if you met some Christians that don’t live the ‘unity of life’ – then those are not the ones to emulate. Learn and love.
And if anyone has hurt you from your Church, or any denomination I apologize regarding their behavior. They obviously did not know how to deal with you or others in the way that was loving, good, generous and True.
Like I said, I ain’t buying the commenter’s story. Are is life and death small matters? It seems like abortionists like to pick on the most minute humans to kill for money.
And yes, the law’s earliest written form can be traced back to the Bible, as well as corroborated by other sources and archeological findings. Now, of course the Bible was written by people and the earliest earliest form of the law would be oral. Once upon a time, Caveman A must have told Caveman B to take his filthy paws off A’s favorite bearskin blanket. I doubt however that any of our trolls can name the legal fore-father who’s laws were famous during the time of Abraham (and a part of the culture he lived in)?
As an aside: Some atheists think we think the Bible is a letter by letter dictation from God, but they are of course confusing it with another religion’s scripture. Actually, the Bible is written physically by human hands inspired by God. I have even met a few Christians who were self taught or had inexperienced pastors who didn’t really understand the cultural, historic, and social background of the Bible. When we read it, we need to ask ourselves, ‘who is the writer addressing? what is the purpose of the writing?’ We need to put the text in context. That is one of the good things about organized religion: you meet people who have asked the same questions as you. You get to benefit from their experience and wisdom.
Well, jeez, if they’re just showing pictures of your “right to terminate a pregnancy,” where’s the prob?
Joan, the Bible is given “that we may know”. You don’t have to be in the dark about God’s viewpoints on things. His Word is given to us to light our way. Stop groping about angrily in the dark Joan.
“the images of dead babies on our minds”. Hmmm…
well, if you have no problem with abortion, then the images shouldn’t bother you. At least you admit they’re dead BABIES. What about the right of a baby not to be “disturbed” in his/her mother’s womb, and being allowed to continue growing and be born?
Well THIS American Jew is pro-life. I’ve walked through the gas chambers at Auschwitz and Dachau. I’ve sat in Anne Frank’s attic. I’ve talked with more than just a few survivors of the death camps and I can’t think of a single one who would be upset by the use of the term “holocaust” to define what is going on with abortion.
These survivors LOVE life. They cherish life. They respect life. They know what it means to be deemed less than human and they do not want anyone to be able to define ANY group of humans as less than human ever again.
They remember being told that they were dimwitted and mentally not fit for life… and they hear those words again when being told parents should abort (or at least have the right to abort) a child who is less than perfect… who may have a medical condition that potentially limits their intellectual or physical capabilities.
No one is more passionate about defending life than one who has seen firsthand where NOT defending life and the humanity of ALL leads….
Presumably, these people would alter their route just the same if it were a feed-the-hungry display with photos of starving Sudanese.
Thank you Elisabeth!
I see that a bit of waffle has been generated in a vain attempt to draw some correlation between the law in its various guises and the bible or other similar sources.
Numerous non-abrahamic societies have existed which were at least as ‘civilized’, sometimes it could be argued even more so.
The greek gods, Amun and many others were the sources of very similar societal laws. So were some purely sectarian communities.
bmmg39, people who lack the basic human qualities of compassion and empathy would certainly walk waaayyy around such a display so that photos of starving adults or children from foreign countries don’t affect their Chik-Fil-A sandwich eating.
I was at an event once where the Scientologists were displaying WWII era photos to provide their link between the business of psychiatry and the Holocaust. I was very curious to go in and see the display but my friends thought it was “too depressing.” Personally, what I find depressing is how certain of my friends who eat well every day can pass a destitute person on the street and make snarky comments about them. There but for the grace of God go you, full-bellied snark.
Cranium, the only waffles are on the breakfast menu. The name of the famous lawmaker who’s name would have been known to Abraham and his family is not that hard to find. Go ahead and dig a little. He wasn’t Greek and was alive and promulgating laws before the Greeks learned how to write. I’ll give you a hint: Abraham’s name has something in common with his name. You might have to look up in a book rather than Wikipedia for this one. It’s good for the brain to have to search for something. Ok, I’ll give you an even bigger hint: fertile crescent.
Yes, Thanks Elisabeth!!
ninek, laws came from a variety of sources, not just your bible or abrahamic paradigms.
Whoever this person is of whom you speak, they are not the font of legal wisdom or creation.
Through word of mouth and archeology, humans do have a legal history. We have passed it down in many forms and it’s traceable and a really fun and amazing course of study. Your ignorance of it is a shame. Perhaps someday you will turn your efforts to a more serious study of history.
It’s a shame how many folks don’t value their own cultural treasures. Napolean’s law’s about marriage and education have had a direct effect on our own. But where would he have been without his ancestors? Were the Greeks the first people on earth? No. The first to be civilized? No. Yet, you can trace a great deal of both Western and Eastern law right back to the fertile crescent. Ah, pearls before swine. Sigh. I miss a lot of my old teachers. How glad they might be to know that I never lost my enjoyment of study, that what I learned so long ago built the foundation on which I learn today. I salute you, Mr. E and Mr. C, Mrs. K and Mrs. F, you know who you are. :>)
Very good ninek. From what you have written I see that indeed, our laws do not emanate from the bible or the abrahamic faiths. They stem from at least 10,000 years ago.
Thank you for that knowledge.
God was around at least 10,000 years ago too cranium. :)
And like I said, since it began in oral tradition, the Bible does indeed reflect this same legal tradition. It’s not like Moses suddenly came up with some crazy set of laws no one had ever heard before. Early civilizations pretty much agreed on what was allowable and what was not. Pieces of the Bible have been found by archeologists going waaayyyy back. I know, it makes the atheists uncomfortable. There is so much cultural cleansing they want to do. They’ve got to pretend so much didn’t happen. For example, imagine all the cities that would have to be renamed! I’d like to think that Mao’s destruction of Chinese culture would serve as an important lesson to the world, but sadly American libs also want to raze our culture to suit their current whims.
Adam Zertal used to be an atheist. He went out looking to prove the Bible wrong. Long story short, he’s one of us - google goggle one of us!! Lol!
Cranium may not like believing in God, but God believes in Cranium!
“the Bible does indeed reflect this same legal tradition” – exactly, but it’s not the originating sources, which has been my point.
“It’s not like Moses suddenly came up with some crazy set of laws no one had ever heard before” – yes again, he was reflecting what all sorts of non-abrahamic and non-deifying societies had constructed.
“Early civilizations pretty much agreed on what was allowable and what was not” – a third point of agreement!
“it makes the atheists uncomfortable” – not me. It doesn’t amount to anything of significance and what there is shows that the bible and the abrahamic faiths were founded on what went before.
Whether or not I believe in any deity is not a ‘like’ thing. It’s an evidential thing.
Better not say that to young earth creationists Praxedes!
The Diety that created the physical universe is not measurable within that universe. Atheists have a lot of trouble with metaphors, so I’ll not use one to help the atheists understand. They can deny God, but they deny with the lips and hands that God gave them.
God is alive. Hallelujah!
“The Diety that created the physical universe is not measurable within that universe” – and that would be convenient escape clause number…?