Sunday funnies 11-7-10
Here are my top 5 political cartoons for the week, beginning with liberal spin on last Tuesday’s conservative political tsunami. Funny how there was no chatter of “reaching out,” “bipartisanship,” and “compromise” when Democrats controlled all 3 branches of government…
by Jim Morin at GoComics.com…
and by Mike Luckovich at GoComics.com…
Libs also like to paint Americans voting down the Obama/Democrat agenda as insanely angry. Here are the opposing views, first by Ben Sargent at GoComics.com…
and then by Mike Lester at Townhall.com…
Finally, our biggest concern, as expressed by Lisa Benson at Townhall.com…
Nov.07, 2010 6:37 am |
Cartoons |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
A mob of angry white men, clinging to their GOD, ther guns and their wealth surrounded a nation of 300 million people and exerted their will at the ballot box.
And then there are all those independent voters who had experienced/endured enough of ‘hope and change/smoke and mirrors’ to know there is no additonal education to be gleaned from being kicked twice by the same jackass.
And of course there were those young ‘first time’ voters who thought it would be ‘cool’ to elect the first black president who did NOT show up at the polls for the midterm election no matter how much their first black president exhorted them to do so.
We probably won’t hear from these bubblegummers again until it will be ‘cool’ to elect the first [fill in the blank] president.
Humans are stupid.
This will be a very interesting two years. The GOP is definitely at their strongest when they are in the minority. The things they promise and hold as values are quite easy to say, but a lot tougher to actually execute on. As we’ve seen already from those running, saying “I’m going to radically cut spending and not raise taxes” is an easy thing to let fly, but the reality is much, much harder (see Bush 2000-2008).
I also think the GOP doesn’t get it yet – the early polls I’ve and everyone else has seen has said that the number one thing to concentrate on is the economy (along with the deficit). The reason the Democrats got trounced is because the economy hasn’t bounced back fast enough. Yet my guess is the GOP is going to look towards about 8 other things to concentrate on before they go after anything related to the economy.
We’ll see – fun election as we have tea-party people coming in, GOP folks, and Democrats. My guess is that the tea-party folks were Republicans with a different election marketing ploy, and all will be the same come January – but we’ll see.
Hi Ken
As I have said before, I have stopped wondering how people as educated, cultured, and intelligent as the Germans could so blindly and loyally follow an Austrian street thug to their own destruction. Then while sitting in the rubble of their bombed out cities among looters and desperate people, long for the days of “order” and economic prosperity that were the Hitler years.
Hi Jill,
Losers compromise, winners do not. For the first time since I can remember it sounds like Republicans will finally act like winners and not walk around with their hats in their hands. I’ve informed my congressman that he is not being sent to Washington to make people like him or to reach across the aisle. I don’t want to hear of his moderation and ability to compromise.
The Republicans must keep in mind that there’s another election in 2 years and an informed, angry, and skeptical electorate is watching their every move.
My and many other congresspeople gave the American people the finger when they voted the Obama agenda instead of listening to their contituents. They found out the middle fingers of the American people also work very well, especially in the voting booth.
Libtards are sore losers. Call the “waaahmbulance.” It’s just name-calling, whining, b*tching, complaining, blaming, while when THEY’RE in power, they’re worse than the Republicans. Myopic and hypocritical. Ridiculous.
EGV,
There’s something about my elected “representatives” shoving their middle fingers in my face that grates me. Apparently I’m not the only voter with that perspective.
When our “representatives” let it be known that towing the party line, not the constituents, was their priority, they sealed their fate.
I hope this time the Republicans realize the American people mean business. They blew it big time once before and yes that includes Bush. Get your hats out of your hands and act like winners. Losers don’t set the terms concerning “compromise”, etc. We can debate forever what the elections meant but its obvious the American people are not happy. As a Tea Party member I’m overjoyed at the caliber and diversity of the tea party supported candidates. Black, white, Hispanic, Indian-American, male, female. Rather strange for an organization that is alleged to be “racist” don’t you think?
Mary – two thoughts:
– How can the GOP (or the Democrats) not compromise? It takes 60 votes in the Senate to get anything done these days without having votes on the other side…and neither party will be close. Compromise will have to rule, or we’ll have two years of nothing getting done – which will mean huge upheaval once again.
– I actually play a game when it comes to the “tea party” pictures – I count the number of minorities that I see in the crowd shots. Early on, I would get a couple of points per picture until I decided it really wasn’t fair to give points for media covering the event. Most pictures grade out at zero points.
Our country is in worse shape under Obama (with the help of Pelosi, et. al)…..But all anyone does is blame Dubya. Hey, it’s Obama’s mess now, and the Dems have put our country even further in debt, our economic depression is even worse, jobs are disappearing….It’s awful. It was Obama’s duty to clean up, but he’s incapable of doing that because he only cares about being popular and keeping the support of Hollywood and the wealthy (hypocritical) Dems. To be honest, I’d been a Democrat all my life, but I have switched parties, because the Dems don’t stand for what they used to stand for. I feel safer under Republicans. I don’t agree with everything (like, the gay marriage stance, what’s that about), but I don’t hear Republicans whining all the time and acting like a bunch of mean-spirited crybabies.
I agree with the last cartoon. There should be no compromises, as this administration has pushed us so far left that compromise would still leave the Dems comfortably further left than when Obama took office.
The name of the game must be REPEAL!
MaryLee – I’m assuming then you would have said the same thing about Reagan in 1982? Unemployment had risen rapidly in his first two years – the deficit was moving upwards. So would you say the same thing about Reagan? My take? The economy in the year 2008 was on the edge of an economic depression. The moves by the Fed kept us from going off of that cliff. The biggest issue is that the fire the GOP started hasn’t been put out fast enough. I think it is great to bring new ideas to the table and am excited to see some actual plans by the GOP on how they’ll actually govern.
Gerard – Thank God that lately, more of the “repeal” crowd has said they won’t repeal without an alternative. A simple repeal right now will come back from the CBO as a budget negative – which would put the GOP in a corner (since they say everything should be run through the CBO). Our new senator said repeal, but the GOP needs an alternative. Then we’ll see what the public thinks about healthcare. Furthermore, the GOP has said for a few years “don’t concentrate on health care – concentrate on the economy”. New gallup poll says the first thing that should be concentrated on is the economy. So my guess is the next two years will be a lot of the economy…or we’ll have a similar upheaval again in two years.
Ex-GOP,
A simple repeal on healthcare will be a budgetary act of national salvation. It needs to remain in the private sector. European countries with socialized medicine have destroyed themselves, destroyed their economies. Several are now reintroducing private sectors in health care as they back away from this disaster.
Typical of the left, they wander down the road from which others are coming back, bloodied and bandaged—and the left is oblivious to what they are seeing.
Simple repeal will be one of the single-greatest boosts to the economy.
CBO didn’t grade it out that way Gerard – so if they introduce legislation to repeal it, and grade it out (as they say things should have to be), they’ll need to figure out how to make it budget neutral.
Also – exit polling said that have the country wants the bill left in place or expanded, and have want repeal. Not quite a clear mandate.
Last thought – so going back to how it was would be the greatest economic boost to the economy? So how did that work out in the Bush administration?
The right is saying “let’s do over Bush – Bush part 2, and hope it works out better next time”. You folks pushed things almost into a depression. Didn’t work out so well.
Ex-GOP, I was very, very, very young when Reagan was in office. At the time, my family was still mired the Democratic party and they all hated Reagan. I do, however, think Reagan did some really astounding things while in office, and I do have respect for him. And heck, I really like the Clintons—both of them. I don’t agree with them, but I think they’re smart and they’re diplomatic and they get things done. Obama is a JOKE.
If I want a health insurance policy that has no lifetime limits then I’ll find an insurance comapany that sells one and pay the extra $100 a month. If I want a policy that covers my kids till they till age 26 then I’ll pay the extra premium and get that kind of policy. For the government to legislate that every insurance policy offered MUST include these things is anti-American. And to mandate that people buy a government exchange version if they don’t buy it in the private sector is anti-American. I just got word from my work last week that our health insurance rates are going up 12.5% this year alone due to Obamacare. And my deductible is going up $1000 and my out-of-pocket is going up $1000, And my deductible used to count towards out-of-pocket maximum and it no longer does so there is an additional $1000 of health care cost next year thanks to Obamacare. And visits to specialists now cost $45 co-pay instead of our previous $20. So my daughter who just broke her wrist will cost me about an extra $100 to for the required four orthopedic visits alone. And over the counter medications are no longer considered medicine under Obamacare so you can no longer use Health Savings Acounts to pay for your Advil etc… Oh, and I am paying 20% on hospital charges beyond my deductible, previously it was only 10%. For the extra money I am having to pay I could have purchased those additional benefits from BCBS for less money and without Obamacare mandates. And for those who don’t have any kids, they are now forced to pay for the mandated extended kids coverage. These socialist numnuts just don’t get it. Repeal every least letter of Obamacare! Letting insurance compnies offer plans tailored for individual needs is the American way. Some may not weant all those mandated coverages. An emergency care insurance might suit them best but because of Obamacare law insurance companies will no longer be able to offer them to people. I can’t wait till 2012 to repeal this Obamacare pig and put real cost saving reforms in place instead.
“The name of the game must be REPEAL!”
Yeah, that’ll happen, despite the Republicans not holding either the Senate or the White House. Nothing is getting repealed, and nothing would be repealed even if the Republicans held both houses of Congress and the White House. It’s amazing how gullible people who vote Republican are. They fall for the same stupid rhetoric every single time: “lower taxes! small government! less regulation [except for all the social issues we want directly regulated by the government]!” And every single time they are disappointed.
Ex-GOP said,
“Also – exit polling said that have the country wants the bill left in place or expanded, and have want repeal. Not quite a clear mandate.”
HUH? Quit looking at the exit-polling and take a look at what happened to the state legislatures. In Wisconsin the outgoing Democratic governor, against the peoples will, commited our state to spending a billion dollars on a train, (800,000,000 of that would have been federal stimulus dollars). So the people put the other party in control of the congress, senate, governorship and the state assembly. Now there will be no train debacle in Wisconsin. That is where Obamacare is headed. Enough Democrats in the Senate ran on repeal where we could get something passed this year to stop Obamacare but Democrats who oppose repeal are gonna feel the will of the American people again in 2012. And it will be repealed and replaced.
Jill: “Funny how there was no chatter of ‘reaching out,’ ‘bipartisanship,’ and ‘compromise’ when Democrats controlled all 3 branches of government…”
Oh, but there was. They just redefined “bipartisan” and “compromise” as “shut up or just agree to go along with what we say.” The Obama administration uses its own dictionary.
MaryLee – I think Reagan did some great things as well to – but at this point in his Presidency, his approval rating was lower, the unemployment had gone higher, and the deficit was rocketing up. It takes a while to turn things from the edge of disaster.
truth –
two quick thoughts.
First, the Individual Mandate was originally pitched by the Heritage Foundation as an item of personal responsibility.
Second, if your insurance company is telling you that, they are lying. Studies are saying 1-2% of the increase is reform. I’m seeing a lower increase than I have from the 10 year average in our family.
Truth –
Quick secret here.
People voted on the economy. Remember – “it’s the economy stupid?”
Great stats people can give you a pretty good idea of how many seats will switch based solely on the economic numbers. Our state of Wisconsin is in a deficit, like just about every state out there. Based on the numbers, it was going to flip. I watched commercials on Walker-Barrett – it was the economy (mostly who screwed up Milwaukee more). The train issue was barely brought up.
It is the economy
It is the economy
It is the economy
And if repeal becomes the thing the GOP lays the line down on, the numbers seem to point that it will become their noose.
Oh come on EGV, 8:13am
Why are you liberals so obsessed with counting minorities? Let’s see, there’s a black person, there’s a gay person, there’s an Hispanic. Our not so unbiased media is also strongly inclined to photograph only white people to “prove” their contention the Tea Party is racist. Also, even if an organization is only or majority white, does that make it racist? Hardly. I’ve never heard all black or Native American organizations assumed to be racist. I would think actions speak louder than words. Again, the diverse candidates endorsed by Tea Party members.
Unlike liberals and Democrats, we aren’t fixated on what “kind” of American.
How do you not compromise? Easy. You stick to your convictions until your opponent, who you have relegated to the minority, compromises with you. You let them reach across the aisle to you. You let them try to be your friend. You don’t try to make them like you. Again I can only hope that this time around the Republicans will conduct themselves as the victors that they are.
MaryLee 8:29am
Someone should have reminded Obama that his incessent whining about his predecessor is unseemly and unpresidential. Also its getting old. Like the person who constantly cries in his/her beer over a lost love. To a point you’re sympathetic and then it just gets tiresome. Get a life for heaven’s sake!
What president hasn’t inheritied a mess? Harry Truman inherited a major world war he had to finish up. The Vietnam War was passed from president to president. Reagan inherited Carter’s economic mess. Did these presidents incessently snivel and whine about what they inherited? Truman didn’t even run for president, he had the job foisted on him when FDR died. Start acting presidential Obama, your situation was in no way unique.
RINO,
Ya, deficit spending and the new Obamacare entitlement went a long way towards crippling the economy. The election was also very much about the Democrats thumbing their noses at the American people and passing legislation against the will of the people using kickbacks and backroom deals. The Democrats who refuse to see this are following Obama out the door in 2012.
And as far as cost of health care goes….. I happen to work for one those evil corporations that you socialists like to bash all the time; They are getting hit with huge tax increases on their portion of health care costs too. It will mean less profit-sharing and less chance of pay increases for people like me.
I find it fascinating that somehow your insurance company magically gave you the Obamacare mandated coverage increases and a reduction in medical insurance cost; must be some kind of Obama voodoo or something cause there is no other explanation. It is quite impressive that Obama was able to mandate all those additional medical benefits to you and your rates actually went up less than in the past. How was it that they could have lowered the typical rate of increase for your medical insurance rate while giving you all of these new benefits? Did your deductibles go way up? How about your co-pays? How about your out-of-pocket maximums? With my plan they also took away our ability to see doctors outside of the “network”. You said my insurance comany is lying to me????? Somebody is lying here but I don’t think it is my insurance company. You seem to think you can get something for nothing and experience would tell me that almost always turns out to not be the case. Maybe you need the liberal min-bending ability to actually see the savings. That would explain why I am not getting any of the savings you are.
Hi truthseeker,
Let’s see, Obey and Stupak conveniently announced their retirement after voting for a health care bill their constituents opposed. I’m sure that’s only a coincidence. Oh, and Russ Feingold was also sent packing after defying the voters on health care and even proudly talking about it. Another coincidence. Now does my memory serve me correct that some lapdog, uh..blue dog Democrats who also supported Obamacare are history as well?
After all, those town hall meetings where voters expressed their outrage and opposition to Obamacare were all just a Fox News plot, right? Voters didn’t reaaaaally oppose Obamacare. Nooooooo.
Hi Mary,
I am looking forward to seeing the Dems vote not to repeal ”the health care mandate”; the whole while telling us how they are doing for our own good cause they know better than us and cause we are entitled to it…wth I am here to coin another new term thanks to the defintion changing abilites of our left leaning citizenry… We now have….drum roll please… “Mandated Entitlements”
Hi TS,
Indeed. The gov’t shoves down our throats that which we don’t have the good sense to know that we really want.
Mary,
Did your deductibles go up on your health insurance this year? How bout out-of-pocket maximums?
Mary – I’m just saying you brought up the diversity within the tea party. I didn’t start with that.
On compromise – I’m hoping for exactly what you say – that compromise from the right does NOT happen. 61% of voters on exit polling said that their vote wasn’t in opposition to Obama. Also, it has been consistent that Obama’s approvals are much higher than congress. If there is two years of nothing – no progress – no compromise – I think we get to see another wave of newbies coming in.
truth –
I’m sure you feel strong in your convictions on the American people and their thumb-nosing – I just can’t find numbers to back you up.
On health care – do some research – 1 to 2% increases across the board attributed to Obama. I’d gladly pay an extra $10 or $20 a month if it meant that fewer families will lose their houses because they can’t cover medical bills. Easy price to pay. Another reason we needed Health Care Reform though – the last two years have averaged between 6 and 7% increases – this year is 8.8% – but at least we have some cost controlling methods to look forward to – not in the past where we just saw rates increase with no future hope.
Furthermore, you’ve already said you are fine with the majority of American’s seeing a tax increase – so what is a few more bucks in insurance?
Really though, this isn’t about Obama anymore. I’m excited – the deficit is going to get massively reduced – my future in social security won’t get cut – our national defense will be strong – and it will all happen within two years. I’m excited to finally see the GOP govern. Hasn’t happened in a few years, and while that didn’t go so well, the world has been promised to me now – so I’m excited to see it delivered!
EGV,
I didn’t bring up the diversity in the Tea Party movement, I said I was pleased with the caliber and diversity of the candidates we supported. So much for our “racism”. You’re the one who counts the number of minorities at Tea Party events.
We can debate forever on what motivated voters. Didn’t exit polls predict the election of John Kerry? Obviously they are not always accurate. One can point to any number of exit polls that supports their stand. The fact remains the voters gave the Democrats the boot and put the Republicans in power. Why do you suppose the Democrat congress was so unpopular EGV if they were truly doing the people’s will?
Mary…and it has been since 12:01 since I had to go through this…
It is the economy
It is the economy
It is the economy
Do want to know how an election is generally going to turn out? Look at the economy. Heck, even Reagan lost seats in 1982 – it was the economy.
Why was congress so unpopular?
Is it the economy
Which is why I’m a bit surprised the GOP wants to go after health care first, since the American people have said go after the economy. Maybe they don’t have a better idea?
(on the minority counting – I did that after one of my last arguments with you or somebody on this board about racism within the tea party. We’ll see – now we get to see how they govern – not just talk anymore)
Ex-RINO, your numbers don’t include any of the deductible increases and out-of-pocket maximum increases and increased co-pays and added taxes on the companies who give insurance to their employees. Include all of those and i comes closer to a 50% increase. The kicker is that a chunk of the increase is actually going to the government in the form of taxes and won’t even be used to pay for medical benefits for anybody. Obamacare has an unfavorable rating now and it will only get worse over time. We didn’t need over 2000 pages of law and billions of dollars in additional annual buraeaucracy and mandates in order to accomplish a few extra health care benefits. Maybe you don’t remember the backdoor union deals where Obama wrote the unions several years where trhey continue to offer the same medical plans without any extra taxes. When they get hit a lot of union people are gonna feel the heat too. But right now it is we the people without lobbyists who are already paying these tax increases and because of Obamacare my increase next year include a few thousand dollars in deductible and out of pocket expenses so that alone is about a 20% increase in my total medical expenses for the coming year. Do you comprehend that or are you going to come back next post with your 1%-2% increase crap cause it does NOT account for the additional tax burden and out of pocket increases they build into the plans in order to be able to offer us insurance.
Joan:
“It’s amazing how gullible people who vote Republican are.”
Funny, this is exactly the way I feel about those who vote for the Dems. In 2006 voters bought the lie that the Dems were going to get us out of the wars, and coupled with a brutal media denunciation of Bush they tossed the Repubs out of control of the House. Oh yeah, there was a non-scandal about some obscure congressman and everyone was up in arms–throw the bums out! What hogwash!
Nancy comes in and promises no more deficit spending under her watch, and guess what? In her four years at the helm we added FIVE TRILLION dollars to the deficit. Does this make her a liar? I would say so, but even worse it shows the corruption of an entire political party whom she had to have go along with her in order to accomplish this unprecented fleecing of the American public.
Well, the American public does not like to be lied to and fleeced, hence the drubbing handed the corrupt dems across the land. In addition to the 60+ seats in the House and the 5 or 6 in the Senate there were some 650 congressional seats won by the Repubs in state houses in the 50 states. Unprecedented!
My wife and I attended the election night celebration of our new congressman who just defeated a one term blue dog Nancy puppet. The occasion was absolutely electric! Not a soul in the room is about to let their guard down. We all know this is merely the first step, the laying down of the foundation for phase two of the rout come 2012.
The fraudulent, lying Obama cannot even admit his policies might possibly be to blame. At least Bush had the sense and grace to admit he was wrong and fired Rumsfeld and acknowledged he screwed up on Katrina.
That Obama cannot admit his policies were to blame is good for us because the more he talks the more people find out he is in way over his head. And now Nancy wants her extremely unpopular face out front and center for another two years. This too is good because it is the face of a corrupt Democrat leadership that will bring even more of the Democrats to defeat in 2012.
Mary, Gerard, Ken, truthseeker, bmmg, and Mary Lee: All great comments!
Truth – I sure can’t tell you exactly why the premiums are going up more at your company – do you have an older base of workers (that is one thing being cited – with less younger workers coming into companies with the bad economy, companies are seeing an increase in catostrophic claims). I’m just going by the numbers from Hewitt Associates – pretty heavily quoted study. Might want to look at it.
Ex-RINO, open your mind for just a moment please. Acknowledge just one bit of what somebody else says and you may find life can be a growing experience. Did you comprehend what I said about all the real costs I am experiencing and which the Hewitt Associates study does not account for? A simple yes or no would be wonderful.
EGV 5:32PM
All in the perspective. Yes the economy is a factor. Others will argue Obamacare, others will argue Obama’s socialist agenda, and on and on. The fact remains the Democrats got the boot. The Republicans are now in charge and as far as I am concerned they are on probation. They blew it big time before and I have never doubted their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I hope they go after Obamacare which the American people made very plain they never wanted and which I am convinced is a big issue. I support reform, not gov’t takeover.
“The republicans are now in charge…”? Did I miss something? I thought the dems still controlled the senate and I had no idea that the president had been changed, you know, the person with the power of veto.
I’m seeing reports that the lunatic fringe of the tea party is already agitating for some of it stoopid to be made policy and acted on. Like I said a while back, this situation has the potential to see obama and the dems make a clean sweep of it in two years time.
Why is it that most of the people agitating against tax increases for those on $250,000+ earn a fraction of that?
Hello Jerry,
Thank you for the kind words. With Obama’s personality type, he will never admit he is wrong so don’t expect it. The narcissism in him will never permit it.
cranium,
Yes the Democrat numbers in the senate have decreased but they are still in control of the senate.
Exactly what is this “stoopid” that you’re referring to?
Why have tax increases at all? Maybe getting the gov’t under control is what is really needed.
Wow, the sore winners have become the sore losers. I am so shocked.
Lol! I’m no believer that politicians will save us, but it sure is fun to watch abortion advocates hiss and spit with anger and disbelief. You just go on believing what you want while the pro-life movement gains ground. Watch for all the money grubbing ads that the abortionists are going to start using. “Donate now! It’s so scary! Give us more money!”
I like the idea of a holiday drive toward helping CPC’s. It’s on!
“Why is it that most of the people agitating against tax increases for those on $250,000+ earn a fraction of that?”
That is the age old question of “what attracts so many people to a political party that is hostile or indifferent to their best interests?” When somebody can finally answer that question, we’ll realize what it is that draws so many working-class white people to vote Republican. God knows they don’t personally benefit from conservative economic policy.
Some of the ‘stoopid’ Mary are the type of policies Christine O’Donnell espoused. OK she didn’t get in but there are still active participants who will push her agenda. And now I see Michelle Bachmann is pushing for a role.
truth – I haven’t read the whole study to know what costs are and aren’t accounted for…but I will acknowledge that rising health care costs are a terrible thing and very hard on a family. From 2005 to 2008 (we were on private insurance – my employer had a “bad employee mix”, so the costs were very high), we saw our rates go up about 39%, all while increasing our per person deductible from $500 a person to $3K a person. And the impact is real – we would not have tried for kid number three if I hadn’t changed jobs and gotten better insurance. So I certainly acknowledge that the situation you are in is not enjoyable.
Whatever the long term solution is in America for health care, things have to change – and it is only partially about the number of people covered – and partially about controlling costs. 5-10% increases a year can only go on for so long.
Mary – I’ll never agree with the statement about the American people making it plain they didn’t want health care reform..but we’ll see how it slugs out.
I do agree though the GOP is on probation…I frankly think the establishment is on probation. The two parties need some new solutions, and fast – or we’re going to see a legit third party emerge.
joan,
Given the history of the Democrat Party you might better ask what draws the blind loyalty of black Americans.
lower taxes mean more disposable income which enables people to buy more consumer goods which gives people jobs producing and selling the goods. If instead of paying taxes you can instead buy a new car or refrigerator, that stimulates the economy and provides jobs.
cranium,
You didn’t answer my question. Please be specific as to what you mean by “stoopid”. Exactly what policies?
cranium, is it possible the anti-tax agitators will throw the rest of the Obama followers out of office in 2012? What if they get help again from the pro-life agitators? And what if they are joined by the 46% in the exit polls who said Obamacare is what drove them to vote Republican? And what if they are joined by the Manchin type Democrat agitators who ran their re-elections on a platform to repeal parts of Obamacare? Or joined by the fiscally conservative agitators. Just sayin…
EGV,
Suit yourself. Let’s call it a draw as you will never convince me the American people wanted this monstrosity. OK, I’ll admit it, we Tea Party fanatics rec’d coded instructions from Fox News to raise havoc at townhalls. :)
Mary/Truth –
Paul Ryan advocates raising taxes on the majority of Americans…and truth even supports his plan – so not sure why you folks are so tough on cranium right now.
While the question is to cranium on “stoopid” policy – I think we’ve seen in the last few years what massive deregulation can do (see oil spills and economic collapse). Letting big business police itself is a risky proposition.
I am registered unaffiliated, but I do vote republican because many LIFE issues (not just abortion but opposition to assisted killing of the elderly and disabled, opposition to killing HUMAN embryos (tiny human beings) for research, TRUE traditional marriage) are concerns to me. I will never vote Democrat because there aren’t any true pro life democrats (Dan Lapinksi is the only one I know of and he’s in Illinois, not my state). My state has a unicameral (the only state that does) and my district voters voted in a democrat that’s NOT good on life issues. The district rep before him is now my city’s mayor…….UGH…..
Is there such thing as a fiscal/social conservative that’s a Democrat cause I’ve never met one. My dad used to be democrat and switched 4 years ago because he wanted to support the republican candidate for US Senate.
Mary – I actually agree with you – people want something different – but they don’t know what they want. They want their payments to go down, their access to stay the same, their neighbors to be fine, and the poor cared for. They also want their taxes to be low, the deficit to be erased, their future to be secure and the borders protected. How they want to get there though, and the tradeoffs that exist – nobody is willing to deal with. I think reform does a lot of good things that – expands coverage (who could argue with that?), gets rid of pre-existing conditions (again, who could argue with that), and has some great controls for cost control long term. But again, we have to have trade offs. People want to have their cake and eat it to – and it just isn’t possible.
That is why I’m VERY interested to see the right’s response the next two years. They have previously said that if they repeal, they will put a plan in place as an alternative. I can’t wait to see it quite frankly. Maybe they have a better answer – but they can have it scored by the CBO, run by the experts, and we’ll see what trade-offs they came up with (or if we end up with another bill like their medicare expansion – all fluff, no hard trade-offs).
People want change – they just don’t want sacrifice. We’re spoiled – big time.
Mary, start with anything O’Donnell said. Some are policies which will be pursued.
No thruthseeker, it’s not.
“Letting big business police itself is a risky proposition.” – ain’t that the truth!
Liz – there are a lot of House members that are Democrats and labeled as more conservatives. In fact, Scottie Brown is a Republican and more liberal than some Democrats, while some Democrats (my old Representative Colin Peterson for instance) are more conservative than many Republicans.
EGV,
I didn’t realize I was being tough. I’m just trying to get an answer to a question.
We’ve also seen what gov’t interference can do as well, and it ain’t much better.
If Ryan is indeed planning on raising taxes, he should remember Republicans are on probabtion, according to John Boehner, and another election is only 2 years away. I have no more qualms about kicking a fiscally irresponsible Republican to the curb than I do a Democrat.
EGV, 8:31PM
I am a strong advocate of insurance reform, health savings accounts, tax deductions for health expenses, and cafeteria style policies. For instance, I only want catastrophic coverage and hospitalization. We have seen what a fiasco Medicare and medicaid have become, typical of when the gov’t steps in.
cranium,
You tell me. You’re the one who raised the issue of her policies so what specifically are you referring to?
Mary – Cool – think we’ll have as many babies under that type of system? Kid number three would have cost $10K or so if we only had “catastrophic coverage”.
Baby wellness no? Kid checkups no? Pay all out of pocket? That really sounds lovely as a father of three! I’ll just send every paycheck right to our local clinic.
My father-in-law was a business owner for 30 years – he’s digging Medicare now. What part of it do you think is a fiasco? Seems like most folks who have it, like it: http://www.gallup.com/poll/122663/private-public-health-plan-subscribers-rate-plans-similarly.aspx
” They have previously said that if they repeal, they will put a plan in place as an alternative. ”
Fat chance. They controlled both houses of Congress and the White House for how many years without ever taking any initiative whatsoever to reform healthcare? Suddenly I’m supposed to believe it’s a concern?
Mary,
Ryan does not want to raise taxes. Ex-GOP is channeling his liberal entitlement to speak in twisted deceit.
Truth/Mary – read an assessment of his plan – the result is an increase on taxes for people making $127K or less a year. I brought it up no less than five times before truth, and you could never refute it with anything more than your “gut feeling”.
Mary:
Someone should have reminded Obama that his incessent whining about his predecessor is unseemly and unpresidential. Also its getting old. Like the person who constantly cries in his/her beer over a lost love. To a point you’re sympathetic and then it just gets tiresome. Get a life for heaven’s sake!
What president hasn’t inheritied a mess? Harry Truman inherited a major world war he had to finish up. The Vietnam War was passed from president to president. Reagan inherited Carter’s economic mess. Did these presidents incessently snivel and whine about what they inherited? Truman didn’t even run for president, he had the job foisted on him when FDR died. Start acting presidential Obama, your situation was in no way unique.
THIS. Times a hundred.
Ex-RINO, since when is basic mathematics a gut feeling…lol
MaryLee, Obama never was presidential material and here he is admitting it for himself.
MaryLee, Obama never was presidential material and here he is admitting it for himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2encXLmPDo
Almost half of the Democrats agreed including Biden and Hillary.
Truth – I’m sorry – I don’t want to belittle you or anything, because you seem to be a nice person – but you can’t just look at the flat rate that somebody throws out there and say “oh, it is lower”. If they introduce new taxes, get rid of deductions, or change other variables (which this plan does), it changes things beyond the simple rate. For instance, lets say that you have an income of $60K. Would you rather have a standard deduction of $55K and a bracket of 30%, or would you rather have a 10% rate and no deduction? You’d take the 30% in a heartbeat (because you’d only have $5k in taxable income) – though the rate is higher. So you can’t just look at the rate and say “oh, it is better”.
Seriously – google the name of his plan and read some actual assessments out there. Know what you are supporting.
EGV,
I’m saying cafeteria style, so that people can pick and choose. I don’t need maternity care, I prefer to pay my own visits and lab work, I don’t need well baby visits, and my concern is mainly for hospitalization and catastrophic. Someone else may choose differently. Tax breaks for self pay and insurance coverage. More competition among insurance companies.
Cranium:
Perhaps you are too young to realize that there’s no free lunch in this life.
Believe me, someday you will.
Perhaps you are terrorized by the prospect of being truly free, I mean, you won’t have anyone to blame for all the dumb mistakes you make but yourself.
EGV,
Concerning Medicare, sure folks dig it.
For the years 2010 to 2019 medicare is projected to cost 6.4 trillion dollars
Google cost of medicare, some good articles.
Medicare scams cost the taxpayers billions of dollars every year and cause vexing problems for people legitimately seeking care.
Google medicare scams.
Ex-RINO said, “but you can’t just look at the flat rate that somebody throws out there and say “oh, it is lower”. If they introduce new taxes, get rid of deductions, or change other variables (which this plan does), it changes things beyond the simple rate.”
Eventually admitting you did not know what was in the study you cited earlier (“truth – I haven’t read the whole study to know what costs are and aren’t accounted for”) shows you still have some semblence of reason left. Try not to throw it away cause Obama makes your leg tingle.
“Perhaps you are too young to realize that there’s no free lunch in this life” – that’s hilarious. I’m over 50. But you’re right, there is no such thing as a free lunch, what’s your point? Wasn’t it you who talked about your weight loss regime a while back?
“Perhaps you are terrorized by the prospect of being truly free, I mean, you won’t have anyone to blame for all the dumb mistakes you make but yourself.” – that’s rather the point. I accept responsibility for myself and my actions. I don’t rely on some imaginery source of guidance and claimed moral definitions. I think for myself. I use knowledge, history and reason.
Cranium,
Just because you can’t see Him, doesn’t mean He is imaginary or that we can’t see Him. You are spiritually blind, a condition that can be remedied by admitting your sinful state and accepting the sacrifice Jesus Christ paid for your sins.
Making Jesus Christ the Lord of your life is the best decision you could ever make. You would be translated into the Kingdom of God, you’d become a child of Almighty God, your sins would be completely wiped away, and you could live and reign with Christ in this life and in that which is to come.
The sad reality is that you’re probably like most people who won’t receive Christ’s offer of salvation. You won’t seek God for answers to life’s tough questions. You will probably die expecting for your conscienceness to simply cease functioning and will be in for a rude awakening. The excruciating pain and sheer terror experienced by the lost are beyond comprehension.
Make no mistake. There is a Hell to shun and a Heaven to gain.
There is a spiritual law found in the Book of James Cranium. If you draw near to God, He will draw near to you. (Ja 4.8) And the converse is true as well, if you don’t, He won’t.
Don’t die in your sin Cranium, seek God. Find out why you’re here. Find out why He made you.
He loves you, so much so that He died for you…
but He won’t force you to love Him back.
It’s your choice.
Choose Life.
Which ‘Him’ Ed? There are rather a lot to choose from. And is it a singular or plural?
There simply is no evidence for any deity. “God and the bible are real because god and the bible say so” just doesn’t cut it.
I use my sentient intelligence and available knowledge to answer ‘life’s tough questions’.
“The excruciating pain and sheer terror experienced by the lost are beyond comprehension.” – you know this as a fact how exactly?
Heaven and hell do not exist, same as god and satan.
The book of James Cranium? I’ve never heard of that one before, wow!
I don’t have any ‘sin’ to die in Ed. I am not a ‘sinner’.
I already have chosen life. That’s why I am free and capable of thinking for myself and taking responsibility for myself.
Well, this is a hopping thread…
Cranium,
How are you? I’m going to have to disagree with some of your comments on religion- I don’t know what you believe, but whatever it is, know that I’m fine with it. However, it is unfair to accuse anyone who is spiritual or religious of being irrational or not using reason, as your comments imply. You didn’t say so specifically, but I should hope that you’re not intolerant of religion or another’s religious beliefs.
Vannah, given the number of people of faith who claim that they would not be ‘good’ or ‘moral’ people without god, I simply point out that I rely on myself rather than abdicate responsibility to someone/something else.
The simple fact is that christians believe in their god, the greeks believed in theirs and numerous other peoples and cultures at different times have believed an assortment of things.
Yet there is no proof for any of it. I don’t think its any more ‘unfair’ for me to opine about reason or rationality given the words and language that were offered up to me. “Making Jesus Christ the Lord of your life is the best decision you could ever make. You would be translated into the Kingdom of God, you’d become a child of Almighty God, your sins would be completely wiped away, and you could live and reign with Christ in this life and in that which is to come.” – I mean, really.
I don’t have a problem with peoples beliefs. What I have a problem with is society and people being impacted by peoples implacable faith that theirs is the only ‘right’, ‘just’ and ‘moral’ way. I don’t stop you reading the bible or going to church so don’t try to stop me from having a relationship without ‘marriage’ or gays from marrying.
Cranium,
Which ‘Him’ Ed? There are rather a lot to choose from. And is it a singular or plural? The God of the Bible, the Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, Whom He sent to rescue you from this wicked world and your own sin.
There simply is no evidence for any deity. “God and the bible are real because god and the bible say so” just doesn’t cut it. The evidence is all around you, look at the stars, a sunset, the mountains, God’s glorious creation. Why do you suppose there is a “Big Dipper” constellation and a “Little Dipper” constellation? Probably just a random occurrence, eh?
I use my sentient intelligence and available knowledge to answer ‘life’s tough questions’. You’re not using all that’s available to you. You’ve bought into a pack of lies that many in the scientific community fall prey to. Your senses aren’t trained to discern between good and evil. You don’t have a clue regarding spiritual matters. I find it so intriguing how God in His Wisdom hides Himself in plain sight of those who are wise in their own eyes.
“The excruciating pain and sheer terror experienced by the lost are beyond comprehension.” – you know this as a fact how exactly? The experiences of Mary K Baxter, Bill Wiese, Kenneth Hagin, my brother, my son, among many others. Your problem is that you lack a basic knowledge of God’s Word and the spiritual discernment to know whether someone had a genuine spiritual encounter or perhaps just ate too much pizza before bed.
Heaven and hell do not exist, same as god and satan. And you know this as a fact how exactly…never mind, you don’t know it because you’re wrong.
The book of James Cranium? I’ve never heard of that one before, wow! Obviously missed the comma, the font’s pretty small. I don’t know why I bothered with the reference anyway, it’s not like you have the capacity to understand it anyway.
I don’t have any ‘sin’ to die in Ed. I am not a ‘sinner’. Not only are you a sinner like me, but you’re in gross denial. You’ve never told a lie? Never lost your temper and said something and hurt someone you shouldn’t have? Ok…
I already have chosen life. That’s why I am free and capable of thinking for myself and taking responsibility for myself. Ignorance is bliss, you are totally deceived.
Never mind Cranium, I didn’t realize you were that far gone. It would probably be a waste of time for us to continue this discussion.
Just remember, God is ready and willing to meet you at your point of need, anytime and anywhere.
Mary – ah, you didn’t say an economic disaster. It’s a tough one. Old people vote – so both parties talk about cutting down Medicare, but when either one does, then they get hit for it. McCain campaigned on cutting Medicare, then when Obama actually did, McCain and the right hit him hard for it. Medicare is a tricky one, because if you want to pad your numbers, expand Medicare…because old people vote.
Truth – you are talking about two different things. The plan I haven’t read the whole one of is the independent analysis of insurance costs increasing 1-2% based on health care reform.
Now you are talking about Paul Ryan’s plan, in which you are advocating raising taxes on people making less than $127K a year while giving massive tax breaks to those making over $1 million a year. Two different plans truth.
Oh, and Mary – so what happens if you get cancer – do you have to move to a cancer plan? Or if you didn’t choose that, do you pay out of pocket? Are the only people on a maternity plan people who are going to have a baby? That’s got to be an expensive one…how quickly would we be able to move off of it afterwards?
So seriously, lets say you have one plan with 100 healthy 21 year olds, and then another plan with 100 kids with cancer. What are the rates going to be like for the two? This sounds a bit like the high risk state pools with out of control costs…but not positive.
Hey cran,
Would you check out this easy read?: My Descent Into Death: A Second Chance at Life by Howard Storm.
Remember who always loves you :)
Hey Cranium,
I was rereading last night’s post and didn’t intend to come across so critical. As Praxedes says and as told in the story of the Prodigal Son, God loves you and is ready to receive you and welcome you into His Kingdom anytime you’re ready.
Howard Storm’s account is one more excellent account of someone’s experience beyond death’s door. There are dozens and dozens of them.
Be well.
Hi EGV,
The costs of Medicare have gone way beyond the original estimates. Whether its an economic disaster is in the perspective. In my opinion it is. Its become a boondoggle but one we are now stuck with. We certainly need another entitlement program, right? What makes you think Obamacare would be run any more economically and efficiently? Old people didn’t get medical care prior to Medicare? My grandparents and great aunts and uncles certainly did. Costs skyrocket when you add a third party payer like insurance and government. When hospitals and doctors had to compete in the free market, the costs contained themselves. As I pointed out, at one time insurance was only for catastrophic care.
EGV, people should be able to pick and choose their coverage. They also have to be responsible for the consequences of those decisions. You buy minimal car insurance then get in a major accident where your car is totalled, and now someone is suing and you need a good attorney. Well gee, you didn’t think of this possibility when you bought car insurance. Now what?
Or…You had the foresight to buy total coverage and now you are protected.
Or…you chose not to insure you car at all and never have an accident.
Insurance, like life, is a crapshoot.
You buy a certain amount of home insurance and some valuable family heirlooms are stolen. You neglected to properly cover this possibility. What the heck, they’re safely tucked away in a wall safe no thief could ever find. Now what?
When buying health insurance look at all the possibilities. Certainly maternity care and well baby checks are not a concern to me or a single young man. They are to you. You may not be concerned with problems of aging at this time such as arthritis, hip fractures, etc. I am. You can have the option of buying cancer coverage. Someone else may want to take their chances. Some people want to buy the “cadillac” health plans, I prefer not to. As I said, tax write offs for out of pocket medical expenses. Also health savings accounts which people can choose in place of or in addition to insurance.
Turn the insurance companies loose to compete against each other. When there’s a monopoly they can pick and choose. Also insurance reform is in order.
Doctors and clinics may also choose to give discounts to patients who pay with cash or check, and save them tons of paperwork.
There a limitless possibilities EGV, and they don’t involve gov’t takeover.
Ex-RINO said, “but you can’t just look at the flat rate that somebody throws out there and say “oh, it is lower”. If they introduce new taxes, get rid of deductions, or change other variables (which this plan does), it changes things beyond the simple rate.”
Ex-RINO, Lets cover each of these one at a time; we can start with deductions. I read that the Ryan plan allows for a standard $39k in deductions per family; tell me which specific deductions does the Ryan plan get rid of that you wish he did not get rid of? Try to focus on the deductions here. We will cover the tax portionnext. And if your answer does not list any specific “deductions” then we can assume that you are not aware of any specific “deductions” that get cut in the Ryan plan.
Cranium,
I was only thinking about your wording- I’m an agnostic myself. But I believe in religious tolerance. :)
So I was thinking about what you said on you getting your morality from yourself. I try and look at morality as a confluence of sources- you get it from yourself, from society, from parents, from hard-won lessons, and perhaps from God. But I agree with you- I’ll think about it. :)
Re: Cranium.
I’m really tired of trying to prove the existence of God to people who deny his existence.
I want you to disprove it.
Ex-GOP Voter November 7th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
“truth –
I’m sure you feel strong in your convictions on the American people and their thumb-nosing – I just can’t find numbers to back you up.”
=============================================================
‘Of course you can’t.’
Though that may come as a shock to YOU, we are not surprised.
I voted for Ronald Reagan for president. Both times.
The only things Ronald Reagan and b o have in common is they both had Irish mothers and they both married up.
Reagan inherited Carter and the demoCRAT economic fiasco. The policies that Reagan implemented did take two years to show positive results, but b o’s policies are the polar opposites of Reagans.
Mary, please help me out here.
At the end of the first two years of Reagan’s first term did the American electorate elect a bunch of democRATs to bring balance to the political system?
Ex-RINO
Suggest keep reading the history instead of stopping at after the first two years of Ronald Reagans first term.
I hear you justlooking. It’s amazing how God is so loving and merciful and at the same time respects and honors our free will. If someone chooses they don’t want to know God, that’s fine with Him. If they choose not to acknowledge the price He paid, with His own Blood, to ransom them and rescue them from this sin-sick world, it’s their choice. If they’re comfortable with themselves, this world and its god, He’ll let them spend eternity together.
Christ encouraged us not to waste time with the self-righteous. He said He came to call the sinners to repent, Lu 5.32.
At the same time, my heart mourns for those who one day will exhale their dying breath and find themselve being dragged away to an eternity without God. They have no idea of the torments that await them.
Lord have mercy.
Hi Ken,
According to Google Democrats already controlled the House and gained 27 seats.
The Republican majority in the Senate remained unchanged with Democrats gaining a seat when an Independent left.
BTW the minority Democrats were led by ex-klansman and klan recruiter, as well as civil and voting rights filibusterer Robert(Sheets)Byrd
I heard today that the last time Democrats were under 200 in the congress was in 1947
“I’m really tired of trying to prove the existence of God to people who deny his existence.” – I can understand that, you can’t do the impossible.
“I want you to disprove it.” – I don’t need to.
You’re right Vannah, religious tolerance. But it also means that the religious need to show tolerance to those who don’t follow their way.
This is not a pro-abortion website. This is not an atheist website. You know where you are. We weather all kinds of insults and I find most pro-lifers here have a pretty long fuse. Look at the people who regulary insult everyone and don’t get blocked. Jill Stanek is already being pretty tolerant. Should parents be tolerant when kids don’t follow their way…to the point of watching their kids burn down the house or jump down the stairs? Of course not. We’re in the business of saving lives, not kissing butt to every snarky atheist and backsliding Catholic that comments. If you’re out of line, you’re going to get called on it. Some religious people have tolerated abortion to the point where over 40% of their community’s pre-born children are being murdered.
Truth – have you read the plan? I copied this right out of the text:
“The simplified plan broadens the tax base by clearing out nearly all of the
existing deductions and credits, compresses the tax schedule down to two low rates, and
retains a generous standard deduction and exemption level.”
Essentially, by his own words, he wipes out nearly all deductions and ups the standard deduction.
Ken –
Not sure if you went back in the conversation or not. What I’m saying is that people keep saying (and it was said in this conversation) – “wow, what a mess he’s created”.
Looking at history, at this point in Reagan’s first term, we were in a very similar boat. You can’t judge a Presidency by two years. That’s all I’m saying.
You are correct – they are going about recovery in different ways – Obama is going more in the route of the last President that gave us a balanced budget. Reagan gave good growth via debt. So yes, two different ways.
Mary – I’ll have to look into that type of plan – is this an idea that has been pitched by anyone?
Still seems like if the only people who were on a plan that paid for pregnancy were people who were going to have babies, the rates would be so high that people wouldn’t be having babies. Kind of throws out the whole concept of insurance.
ninek, this particular comment was not an insult. My words were in regard to a wider range of issues than just abortion. Marriage, homosexuality, sexual mores etc. etc.
I absolutely reject any belief in absolutes.
Hi EGV,
Not really, that’s like saying that unless everyone has total coverage on their car insurance, rates for total coverage would be so high no one could afford them.
That’s what I mean by insurance reform. The kind of coverage I need may not cover your needs and visa versa. We pay for what we need and want. Let the companies compete. I’d love to see more Geico and Allstate like competition on health care plans. Also HSAs that the gov’t can’t get their mitts on, whatever the amount is in there. Tax deductions galore for medical expenses and health insurance. Doctors and clinics offering discounts for direct payment, much like you get at the gas pump for not using your credit card. :)That’s what I see as true reform.
Cranium,
Agreed. I’m sorry if I didn’t catch all of the comments, but I would hope that everyone here (YES- ALL OF YOU) would simply not fight over religion or use the argument on religion to try and change Cranium’s mind. I will probably open up a can of worms, but if he/she (sorry, I don’t know your gender) is not religious, respect that. We can all respect each other.
I would expect the same from Cranium, Vannah. I won’t hold my breath.
Mary:
I admire your patience. Just the fact that this discussion on $$ and cents on specific coverages is now a national agenda item is proof enough that Obamacare is omni-intrusive into personal medical decisions. It now takes an act of congress to change coverage on a particular item. When Senator Barbara Mikulski found out that some language in Obamacare adversely impacted mamogram coverage she had to bring forth specific legislation to change that.
You are spot on about real reform. And it is simply not true that alternative proposals were not presented by the Repubs during the run-up to the Dems ramming through Obamacare against the will of the American people. Nancy and friends would have none of it and simply did not allow for any serious discussion or up and down votes on Repub proposals. Ergo, unless a person was looking for it they probably would have missed it. So as we go through the next few months we will see Repub attempts to repeal Obamacare rebuffed and they will offer basically the same proposals for real health care reform that were not allowed to come to the floor.
Hi Jerry,
Thank you for the kind words. You know me, I love a good joust so my patience tends to be enduring. Obamacare is nothing but a ham fisted gov’t takeover under the guise of a “crisis”. Alternatives were certainly there and still are. Legislators gave their constiuents the finger time and again, forgetting that the American people can vote, and scratch their noses with their middle fingers at the same time.
I’ve already discussed with you my opinion of Obama’s personality type and what to expect and so far he’s reacting exactly as I expected. The fact he does not accept this as his own failing is typical. The American people were just too stupid to understand him. There is seething rage under that calm exterior. He will do only what he is forced to, there will be no willingness to compromise on his part or move to the center. The Republicans are in for a battle, mark my words, and this does not end until Obama is out of office.
Ex-RINO,
You did not list any specific deductions that would be lost under the Ryan plan’ but a larger standard deduction would mean anybody using the standard deduction would be paying less taxes than they currently do. I am not saying there aren’t things about the Ryan plan I wouldn’t disagree with, just that you haven’t been able to point to any specifics. For example, if you had said that the Ryan plan takes away the pre-tax status of HSA’s I would be completely against that; but it doesn’t do that does it?
Truth – I’m sorry – this has gone on long enough. If you’d like specifics, read the CBO analysis. They put together an analysis, and then further answered thoughts after Ryan came back for more info. Or look at the Tax Policy Center – here’s a quote from an article by Paul Krugman summarizing the Tax Policy’s findings:
“The Tax Policy Center finds that the Ryan plan would cut taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population in half, giving them 117 percent of the plan’s total tax cuts. That’s not a misprint. Even as it slashed taxes at the top, the plan would raise taxes for 95 percent of the population.”
Mary – sorry, I missed the info earlier on Medicare and Obama – the biggest part of the plan I’ve seen touted is moving from the volume based Medicare to value based Medicare. A quote from Bill Frist on it:
“The most powerful way to reduce costs (and make room to expand coverage) is to shift away from ‘volume-based’ reimbursement … to ‘value-based’ reimbursement,”
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has a nice write up on it – the thought that GOP folks best option is to work to make it a better bill by pushing more cost control methods like the value based payments.
“The Tax Policy Center finds that the Ryan plan would cut taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population in half, giving them 117 percent of the plan’s total tax cuts. That’s not a misprint. Even as it slashed taxes at the top, the plan would raise taxes for 95 percent of the population.”
Amazing how a flat 10% tax could balance the budget. The guy making $55k ends up paying 10% tax on $16k of it. $1600 in taxes. Your numbers are misleading though. If I have 50 million dollars and save 15% on taxes then I am saving 7.5 million in taxes. It would take thousands of low income earners to equal the savings that one rich person would see. The richest 1% would see the greatest savings because they have the most money.
One thing for sure though, we can’t stand Obama’s tax and spend for any longer. He is already taxing our health care and our tax free interest on our mortgage isn’t safe either with him in charge.
Truth – you are partially right – revenues would be a lot lower under Ryan’s plan – in fact, there would be HIGHER deficits in the near future until the Medicare and Social Security systems starting getting phased out. The budget would get balanced when Ryan is 110 years old (2080 I believe) – so there’s a LOT of assumptions along the way.
Are you finally seeing though that Ryan’s plan would raise taxes on the majority of Americans?
Ex-RINO,
65% of the people in the US make less than $39k/yr? Under Ryans plan that means they would pay $0 in taxes. So your premise that Ryans plan would increase taxes on 50% of the population is just wrong. You may want to look at the actual numbers. I can provide you the link if your google search bar is broken. A whopping 75% make less than then $50k/yr. so there is an additional 10% that would pay less than $1k in taxes. Wrap your mind around this, “under Ryan’s plan 65% of the American people would not have to pay any taxes.” Last time I checked 65% was a majority. Does that mean the above post was the last time you will say
“Are you finally seeing though that Ryan’s plan would raise taxes on the majority of Americans?” ugh
Ex-RINO said,
“The Tax Policy Center finds that the Ryan plan would cut taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population in half, giving them 117 percent of the plan’s total tax cuts. That’s not a misprint. Even as it slashed taxes at the top, the plan would raise taxes for 95 percent of the population.”
Ex-RINO,
Somehow you are saying that 95% of Americans would see a tax increase while 65% would pay $0 in taxes. How is this possible?
Ex-RINO said,
The budget would get balanced when Ryan is 110 years old (2080 I believe) – so there’s a LOT of assumptions along the way.
That my friend is because over first several decades of the plan Ryan is using new funds to continue to pay the benefits due to particpants in our currently insolvent entitlement programs. One of the things I like most about the Ryan plan is that future generations would not be paying into a government plan that would be raided and made insolvent before they get anything out of it. Instead the funds would be in HSA’s that the individuals would own and control even to leave as an inheritance if they so desire. If you do the math and leave government in control of these entitlements our country becomes insolvent LONG before 2080.
Cranium –
“I don’t need to” [RE: proving God’s existence]
@ Cranium
Neither do I.
PS – in case you haven’t figured it out, it’s also impossible for you to prove he does NOT exist, but feel free to try.
Truth dodger – take a look at the Center for Tax Justice numbers – since Ryan introduces a sales tax (VAT), those making less than $39K WILL be paying taxes under his system.
The difference is justlookingon, that I keep being told I really should believe. Yet I don’t tell you that you really shouldn’t.
As I said before, I don’t need to disprove any alleged deity.
You care, I don’t ;-)
Save yourself from death Cranium if your so smart.
What? Can’t handle the truth?
1 Corinthians 3:17-19 (New American Standard Bible)
17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
18(A)Let no man deceive himself (B)If any man among you thinks that he is wise in (C)this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.
19For (D)the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God For it is written, “He is (E)THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS”;
What a strange little comment! No one is immortal HisMan. Why would I be trying to save myself from death? Are you fearful of death? What a ludicrous thing to say.
“Can’t handle the truth” – yeah, right. This from someone who assigns decisions and self-responsibility away. As evidenced by more posting of scripture. You may as well chant ‘eye of newt and skin of toad’ at me.
How’s the diet going?
Ex-RINO said,
“Ryan introduces a sales tax (VAT), those making less than $39K WILL be paying taxes under his system.”
Ex-RINO, How much is the VAT tax? Is this new VAT tax overlayed on top of the current sales tax or does it replace it? Correct me if I am wrong but the rich will be paying proportionately more on the VAT tax cause it gets applied to purchases. I wonder how it would effect food sales in Wisconsin which are currently free of all tax.
Wrong again Cranium.
I don’t care if you believe or not. What God has ordained for your life is not my concern. What kind of arrogance causes atheists to suppose that all Christians give a rip if you don’t believe in God?
Your unbelief does not change a thing, and I won’t ‘cast my pearls before swine’. You do a lot of gum flapping for someone who doesn’t care, so why don’t you just back off of Christianity? Go have your little atheist parties, and go discuss with great intellectualism why there is no god, and how silly and stupid we all are, and leave us alone.
And as I said before, I don’t need to prove his existence to you. If you want to make a case that there is no God, then you need to disprove his existence – otherwise be silent.
Then perhaps people ought to stop quoting scripture at me. I don’t say anything until others raise it.
“I won’t ‘cast my pearls before swine’” – um, not plagiarizing Dr. Nadal are we?
Atheists have no need to ‘back off’ from christians. All we want is for christians to not try to shove their beliefs on us.
I have no need to make a case that there is no god. If I claimed the moon was a viewing station for a race of silicone based 3 foot tall tri-pedal aliens you would expect me to prove it. It would not be up to you to disprove it.
You keep saying something in particular exists so its up to you to prove it, if you wish.
Truth – Any sort of VAT would be in addition to state stuff – if something is not taxed on a state level, it would still be taxed at a national level. All the info is in the plan and the analysis to read.
I’m in Wisconsin too! Hoping that winter holds off as long as possible…
Hi HisMan
I want to start this by saying I have only respect for you and your beliefs, your dedication to your faith, and your efforts to reach and help others. No one supports freedom of religion more than I do and I am the first person to argue for your right to exercise your faith as you see fit.
Normally I stay out of religious debates, mainly because its an argument that will never be resolved no matter how much or often it is debated, but I would like to bring up this question.
If I were to quote Hindu holy verses to you in an effort to influence what you believe, would this in anyway cause you to question your beliefs or change them? If anything, like cranium, you would tune me out and tell me to save my breath and your time. You may even become offended that I would not show more respect for your beliefs and your lack of belief in the Hindu faith. At best, I would only succeed in frustrating myself.
Maybe now you can see cranium’s perspective on this and why quoting bible verses will get you nowhere. If anything it will only frustrate and anger you as I have seen it happen in the past.
Maybe the best thing is to accept that people do not share your beliefs and won’t. You will not change them. Just as someone could never persaude you to become a Hindu. God is their judge, let Him do His job.
But how is it that Wisconsin keeps 0% on food. Is there no federal tax on food anywhere at present? When I buy food in Illinois for example, I pay the same tax as I do when I buy razor blades. Just wondering. And enjoy the day cause this weekend is supposed to be cold and wet.
Ex-RINO, as I see it the VAT tax does not effect consumer purchases; so food in Wisconsin should remain tax free. Also, the VAT tax would only indirectly effect those making $39k or less since the VAT tax would not apply directly to them. Theoretically the VAT should eliminate much of the need for sales tax since the businesses would already have been taxed on the product prior to the consumer purchase.
I see there currently is no federal sales tax in the US. I have felt lucky crossing the border from Illinois to Wisconsin cause of the food and prescriptions are exempt from the state sales tax but there are actually 21 states still with no state sales tax at all. Wow. I did not realize that.
Cranium –
Plagiarizing Dr. Nadal?? Really?
Atheists continue to think they can hijack the world……just because a Christian believes in something you don’t, then Christianity should be stamped out, eh? Society will willingly reap the benefits Christianity and then seek to abolish it’s existence – go figure.
Point is, it does not matter if you believe in God, and theologically and personally speaking, I don’t care if you do or not - furthermore, since I believe in caring and loving God, I’m afraid that it doesn’t bode well for you that He apparently doesn’t care if you believe in him, either.
And if you don’t want Christians in your face, stop spouting that you’re an atheist on a Christian blog. Be quiet. Go away.
That’s funny, I was told that this isn’t a christian blog.
I don’t spout it, I just state it when people start pouring religiosity and scripture at me.
“…it doesn’t bode well for you that He apparently doesn’t care if you believe in him, either.” – what happened to ‘all caring and loving’?
That’s funny, I was told that this isn’t a christian blog.
Whoever told you that was incorrect. This is a blog written by a pro-life Christian. So, the Christian perspective is to be expected here, cranium. I don’t know why you’re surprised to find that worldview here. However, we also welcome many secular, atheist and agnostic pro-lifers at this site.
cranium said:
“I don’t rely on some imaginery source of guidance and claimed moral definitions.”
cranium,
Is it possible people can behave unjustly towards one another? If you do, then you are guided by your own claimed moral definitions.
Yes, it is an anti-choice blog which happens to be operated by christians. That is quite different to a christian blog.
And while it may be ‘appropriate’ to cite specific, relevant scripture in defense of your case, streams of biblical references such as that from HisMan and others are not applicable.
Yes they certainly do truthseeker, both inside and outside church. Yes, I am guided by my own moral definitions, just like you are. Except that you say yours are ‘delivered’ to you. Many moral definitions are common, not all.
The biblical references may not seem applicable to YOU, cranium, but HisMan and others have the right to post them because many pro-lifers who come to this site are Christian.
Those of us who are believers in Christ believe the Word of God supports the pro-life position. However, that isn’t the only thing we have to prove our case, and you know that.
I could just as easily say your atheistic rants are not applicable to those pro-choicers who claim a belief in God.
You are tolerated here as a pro-abortion commenter. You are in the minority on this website. You do not dictate to the moderators or to the author of the blog or to other commenters what they can and cannot post and what is relevant/irrelevant simply because you deem it to be so.
Don’t know who is giving you theological pointers, but they’re doing a sorry job. Here’s one for you….(to paraphrase) ‘What is it to you, if God fashions with great patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction?” Just because he cares to fashion you with great patience doesn’t mean you aren’t meant for destruction. God loves his creation, but he hates sin and he hates sinners (also in the bible). So what does it matter to me if you believe in God or not? I’m sure you’ve heard the gospel, since you troll Christian sites to provoke arguments, and I see several people on this comment thread have explained it (the gospel) to you. This is what our commission is – to spread the gospel. If you reject the message, then we are to ‘shake the dust of our feet’ and leave you alone. I’m not required to care about what you believe, and I don’t presume to have the mind of God concerning whether or not he cares for, or loves you. At this point it would appear that he doesn’t, but I can’t devine the future, so there may be hope for you yet.
The above message is for Cranium, BTW
My ‘atheistic rants’ Kel, only come in response to people posting scripture such as HisMan’s cited text regarding man’s destruction of temples, self-deception and craftiness. If these are relevant to the abortion debate, it is via a very very long and circuitous route.
I don’t dictate, I complain or explain that they have no meaning to me. Far be it from me to dictate what others should and shouldn’t do.
I do appreciate the fact that I am tolerated. And like I’ve said, if your case is so strong then you must be relishing the fact that I continuously supply material which affords you the opportunity to prosecute your case.
“…but he hates sin and he hates sinners…” – aw shucks, I keep hearing ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. Am I being misled?
I don’t actually troll christian sites. I might troll creationist, homophobic or anti-choice sites but that’s because they’re creationist, homophobic or anti-choice, not christian.
Do you realize how many versions of the gospel there are? I hear so many contradictory claims from people of all ‘christian’ persuations.
“I’m not required to care about what you believe” – then why are you saying all this?
justlookingon, none of us can ‘divine’ the future. I also hold out hope for you.
“Yes, I am guided by my own moral definitions, just like you are. Except that you say yours are ‘delivered’ to you.”
cranium, why is it that one person would believe it to be unjust to steal from your neighbor (even if you know you could away it) but another person may not be troubled by it. If the majority of people did steal like that and if it were legal to do so would you just as easily reason it is now ok to rape and pillage? What would be your explanation as to why one would form a moral definiton to refrain from raping, stealing and otherwise pillaging upon neighbors even if they could, and they could get away with it?
truth – I’ll pick up the conversation on taxes on a future post with you…jumping off of this one…it appears it has turned into a battle to club a non-Christian over the head with Biblical morality and Bible verses though the non-Christian has said he doesn’t give a rats-behind about those things. It is getting quite uncomfortable to read quite frankly, so I’m unsubscribing to this one.
Cranium – two things:
1) You are right, this isn’t a Christian blog, but is a pro-life blog with a lot of Christians on it.
2) On this blog though, you are still in somebody else’s living room. Good debate is warranted. Defecating on the carpet is not. Walk the fine line but always stay on the correct side – even when others don’t.
Hi EGV,
Brilliantly said. Amen and thank you from someone who views religious debates on this blog as a waste of time and energy, while at the same time supporting everyone’s right to engage in them.
As I said to HisMan in my 8:54am 11/10 post, I would have as much success trying to persaude him to become a Hindu as he will have trying to persaude non-believers on this blog to believe in his Christian faith.
A waste of time, I think not Mary. If believers don’t club non-believers over the head that they are going to burn in hell and non-believers don’t speak grievously about God that is. For example if cranium would give an honest answer to my previous post he may even find that individual “moral definitions” could arise from something more than just experience and reason. Challenging one another with ‘dialogue’ is how we grow in understanding of one another.
cranium – yes, you are being misled, just letting you know, because you have been misled, that I’m not required to care if you believe in God, Jesus Christ, or the gospel – and I don’t. Have whatever kind of good day you want.
“If believers don’t club non-believers over the head” – now where do we usually hear that sort of language coming from?
truthseeker, the vast majority of us have a sort of intrinsic defence mechanism (I’ve covered this before) in which we don’t rape, murder or steal because we do not want it done to us. Not everyone seems to have this intrinsic defence to the same extent as you and I may have.
And despite the histrionics which appear on this site, abortion does not fit into the same category as rape, murder or theft. In 2006 there were about 17,000 murders across the USA. In the same year there were about 1,328,000 abortions – involving only half the population at best. So murder is committed by about 1 in every 1764 people whilst about 1 in 12 have an abortion.
There is no one to mislead me justlookingon.
“truthseeker, the vast majority of us have a sort of intrinsic defence mechanism (I’ve covered this before) in which we don’t rape, murder or steal because we do not want it done to us.”
cranium, Abortion could actually be a good analogy to use here for me to clarify my question to you. There would be no reason for a woman to fear that she would ever have abortion commited on her and it is legal so the defense mechanism theory would not apply to this abortion analogy. What is it that would make a woman with unwanted pregnanies refrain from committing abortion?
Nothing. Except maybe if she was happy to carry for the full term and adopt out.
It is something. I could tell you what I think it is but I would rather you tell me what you think that something is.
No, you?
The Holy Spirit. Sent to some from God the Father by Jesus. Both a guide and just conscience.
I have another question for you, What makes a person driving home from work risk his life by pulling over at the scene of an accident to try and pull a stranger out of a burning car?
Cranium –
“‘…but he hates sin and he hates sinners…’” – aw shucks, I keep hearing ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. Am I being misled?”
Yes. Whoever is telling you God ‘hates the sin, loves the sinner’ is misleading you.
truthseeker, where did your question to which I answered “no, you?” go?
And who are you having the holy spirit conversation with?
That’s the problem justlookingon, I hear so many different things and observe so many different behaviors from so many people of faith.
Ditto on people of your ‘faith’.
Quit looking at the people.
cranium, I was talking to you about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brings mother’s to love their offspring and could lead a pregnant woman to choose life over abortion even in an unwanted pregnancy. I gave you my answer; It is the Holy Spirit that makes us see clearly that the life in the womb is . Now would you give me your answer to those two questions I asked you. If yu can’t answer them then tell me why you can’t?
1) What is it that would make a woman with an unwanted pregnancy refrain from committing abortion?
2) What makes a person driving home from work risk his life by pulling over at the scene of an accident to try and pull a stranger out of a burning car?
Don’t do like Obama and tell me that to answer those questions with any specifity is beyond your pay grade.
I already answered your first question and I’m still wondering what happened to your other question to which I answered “No. You?”
As for your second question – because they see a person in danger and want to help.
That question is still up there Nov 12th at about 12″30am and your “No. You?” response is about and hour later.
cranium, why would somebody put themselves in danger to help a stranger?
truthseeker, the question to which I answered “No. You?” was related to stealing from a neighbors house or something.