Stanek weekend question: Do pro-lifers yelling at abortion clinics help or hurt?
I received this email a few days ago (which the author gave me permission to post):
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:24 PM
To: jillstanek@comcast.net
Subject: angry pro-lifers?I am one of the younger generation that has been called to get involved in stopping the murder of innocent babies. I was invited to go pray at a local PP a couple of weeks ago. As my friend and I searched for a parking spot, a man began yelling at us. He obviously didn’t know why we were there. After we parked, he introduced himself and said that he has to do whatever necessary to stop these women form killing their babies. I was completely ashamed to be standing there next to him as he yelled at the people entering the clinic. I decided to go away from him and pray. I kept telling God I can’t yell at people like that. I began to ask Him what I was doing there, because I can’t do this. The only thing I felt is “I just want you to listen.” The only thing I could hear is that man yelling at those women.
So, my question to you is; do you think yelling at people really helps? If not, how do you get people to stop? I think this is why “Pro-Life” people have a bad name, and that man really needs to stop! I look forward to your response.
I asked my young friend what the man was yelling. She responded:
He was yelling things like:
They’re telling you lies in there.
You’re more likely to get cancer if you kill your baby.
They’re going to make it so you can’t ever have any babies.
They’re going to kill you in there.
They’re only trying to make money from killing your baby.
When someone said she was getting birth control:
They don’t give out real birth control, they want you to get pregnant so they can kill your baby.To men walking in with women:
You’re letting them take more than your baby in there.They’re going to kill her in there.
You’re going to lose your baby and its mother in there.
Is this really what being “Pro-Life” is supposed to be about? I’m really struggling with this.
When I read what the man was calling out to abortion-minded mothers and fathers, it didn’t seem so bad. Maybe it was his tone. Or maybe the young person was taken aback by this form of activism. What are your thoughts?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
this is the wrong approach at this place. I have found that to smile and offer kind loving help to the women going in is the approach that works. I have been through several trainings for sidewalk counseling and they do not advocate the yelling approach. The women/men expect that we are there to yell at them and they are steeled for this. To approach them in a loving manner completely disarms their defenses. As one training said, the woman has already spiritually aborted her child upon entry and you have to show love and concern for her so that she can regain her love and concern for her baby. This made sense. If she sees another option being presented with love and concern for her that is the approach.
I have like this girl been embarrassed and would not sidewalk counsel when someone like that was there. There is a time and place for each approach but this is not the time and place for this. Ask anyone who has been there if this approach would have stopped them.
His tone? Is there a nice way to stand in front of a clinic and scream like a lunatic?
I don’t have personal experience with this issue, but it seems at least some of the things the man was saying are in fact true. Maybe he should stick to the totally true statements such as increasing the risk of cancer or causing sterility. “They’re going to kill the mother” is probably not as likely to happen, and not taken as seriously. Sticking to factual statements will gain more credibility and less likelihood of being blown off by PP clients. It’s also true that not all women going to PP are there for abortions. But I do think the ones who are need to be informed about the reality of it. This kind of 11th hour informing does appear at first rude, un-PC, and in your face, but how else will the women going in be educated? The problem with controversial “advice” when it is given is people will say, in various ways, “well if you’d just been (nicer, more tactful, less judgemental, more compassionate, etc) I may have took your advice and not dug my heels in more against what you say.” I do have personal experience with that one. We live in a “don’t judge me and my choices”, easily offended culture. But in my heart of hearts, I believe “if ONE baby was saved, then it was all worth it.”
Susie Allen,
Excellent post and points made. Do any of us respond positively to what we perceive as verbal abuse, however “well intended”?
It reminds me of the story of how the wind challenged the sun to remove a man’s coat. The wind fiercely blew and blew, only forcing the man to draw his coat more tightly around him. The sun just smiled and spread its warmth and the man willingly removed his coat. Kindness and not bluster is the more effective means.
I don’t think calling women who want an abortion murderers is likely to convert them. I think it mostly hardens them against us. I just asked Abby Johnson a similar question:
“So, here’s my question, Abby. In your book, when you were working for PP and after, it seemed like you were thinking that the graphic abortion photos and such were too much and made you kind of mad and had the opposite effect than was intended and it sounded like you were saying that the peaceful, prayerful 40 Days for Life route was… the way to change hearts. I was reading a post from Jill Stanek on the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform’s opinion on using graphic images to end abortion (which they are for) and wondering what your opinion is on that. For years you worked at PP with the Coalition people praying outside, but an ultrasound of an actual abortion is what finally made you run out the door. I’m just wondering what your opinion is now. Do you think one or the other is effective, ineffective or are both valid? I’m torn, but I’m wishing pro-lifers could be more united in how we make our voices heard. What do you think?”
And she responded:
“I believe there is a place for graphic signs, but it is not outside of the abortion facility. You are right. An ultrasound abortion changed my mind…not seeing an aborted child out of the womb. I saw that all of the time. I helped to reassemble the parts back together…didn’t change my mind. It was the compassion, prayers, mercy and constant outreach that caused me to reach out to them.”
It’s not the same as yelling, but I think it applies here. I think there is a place for graphic images and graphic dialogue but I’m not sure that it’s in front of an abortion clinic. I think offering help and information in a caring, compassionate tone is the best way to go for women considering abortion. Really, we should be asking women who had a change of heart like Abby’s to learn the best way to approach and speak to them.
Yelling has to happen in some places because of the geography. From the examples given above, none of the things being said are judgmental.
I’ve been to clinics where pro-lifers never yell because the sidewalk counselors can walk right next to the persons going inside.
People are out there to save a life. They’re not out there to save a life … while making pro-lifers look good. My advice. Put some headphones on with music/prayers. Leave the pride at home.
As my former confessor (who incidentally was Bishop Sheen’s Vicar for Religious Education) used to always say…
“You catch more flies with honey than vinegar”
I always take the approach assuming that a lot of the women going there already have a pre-conceived notion of who I am and that I will be an ‘obstacle’ to them getting in. I think we only feed that perception by pushing some of our more extreme points. Those are great for truth tours, etc., but I have to imagine that if they already made the appointment, they know they’re going to have to walk past something they should try to ignore. If they didn’t know that before, I’m sure the clinic workers would coach them on what we might say. ”Lies, etc.”
I try to think a little bit more like a marketer. What are some of the activist organizations out there that actually do get attention? Especially those that I have my own pre-conceived notions about? I’m not a big fan of PETA, for example, but a clever or witty billboard sign, that doesn’t make me feel like an animal-murderer makes me stop and think far more than “Stop torturing chickens” or something.
I’ve never had much success myself though, so what do I know. My favorite sign I’ve seen so far: “52,008,065 – Don’t be a statistic. Be a mother. We can help.”
My daughter almost put her hand in a bon-fire we had this fall.
I was a few feet away and had to quickly yell at her before she hurt herself.
I guess I was wrong and should have gone to a quiet place and just pray she didn’t put her hand in the fire.
Though the intent of the yelling may be to save a life, the intent becomes obsolete when an ineffective means is used. No matter what one may be saying, when it is yelled, it is human nature to recoil and be alarmed by that behavior. When people yell it is basic human nature for humans to see the person yelling as the threat and much more difficult to process what they’re actually saying as they try to flee from the perceived threat.
Yes, they are not out there to save a life while making pro-lifers look good. BUT we should be concerned about how pro-lifers look! If we look like scary crazed people to the women going in, how then are they going to listen to us? How then will they change their mind and think “I think I will go out and talk to that crazed man who was yelling at me?”
We want to be a loving force out there. If they change their mind they want to run to someone who is kind and loving to help them. They are less likely to run out to the yelling person. How sad, to think that she may have changed her mind in the clinic, not know what to do, and inside she has no help and outside she feels that people already hate her. That’s terrible. They need to feel loved not condemned-and yelling no matter what the words are feels like a condemnation to these women.
“You catch more flies with honey than vinegar”
My dad, who has never raised his voice to anyone that I know of, uses a similar phrase when reminding others to remain calm. He says, “You catch more flies with honey than sh*t.”
But now that I have formed a mental visual of flies on all three substances, I think dad means ‘vinegar’. (:
Prroverbs 15
1 A mild answer breaketh wrath: but a harsh word stirreth up fury.
2 The tongue of the wise adorneth knowledge: but the mouth of fools bubbleth out folly.
3 The eyes of the Lord in every place behold the good and the evil.
4 A peaceable tongue is a tree of life: but that which is immoderate, shall crush the spirit.
The Douay-Rheims Bible
I think yelling anything leads the woman right into the presence of the “escorts” who tell her they will protect her and get her away from that. And they do.
Well said Kris. I think yelling shuts off the woman and she no longer will allow herself to hear anything you are saying. Calling out kindly to a mom going into a clinic would be better. Keeping the tone light and not yelling out anything other than an offer of help. most moms who abort just want HELP. They feel scared and alone. They don’t really WANT to abort but just need HELP. So we should be there to offer it to them. I saw this video on youtube of several mothers who chose life because a young girl with a quiet voice approached them and offered them help. They distinctly said that they didn’t feel at all threatened at her approach and that her quiet tone and warmth in her face made them listen to her. When the clinic escorts tried to pry them away they told the clinic workers to leave them alone as they didn’t feel threatened by this girl at all and wanted to hear what she had to say. On the other hand the excitability and harshness of the clinic workers became apparent after talking with the sweet and calm pro-lifer. We need to learn a lesson from that.
my friend who aborted at Planned Parenthood and regretted her abortion so deeply she drank herself almost to death to dull the pain of her loss told me that when she went in to get her abortion there were pro-lifers out there screaming “murderer! You are a murderer if you go in there!” and one even called her a “whore”. I absolutely believe her as she told me this in private while sharing very intimate painful secrets about her abortion. The irony is that she didn’t want to abort but was coerced by her mom and every single family member and friend told her to just do it. Just get rid of it. Just get it over with. She was scared and alone and sad and all she wanted was HELP. And all the pro-lifers did that day was scream at her. Now her baby is dead and her heart is broken. We need to get over ourselves and realize its not about being right, which we are, but its about being SERVANTS to these moms. We are there to help THEM. This is not debate class. We don’t win anything by screaming louder.
it doesn’t help someone to scream at them at what has to be the lowest point of their life, and just makes us look like the bad guys, who the nice abortionists are saving them from.
There are a lot of good strong outreach efforts in front of these killing facilities. There are also a lot of weak amateurish efforts. I have seen people standing around and talking while determined mothers walk right by them and into these places. It is very disheartening and frustrating.
What we need is for all the major organizations to get together, especially the direct action ones, and to set up a network of highly trained volunteers who are taught techniques that work. These volunteers should learn the psychology of persuasion, so that as many mothers as possible can be flipped and their children’s lives spared. Our movement should find a way to finance ultrasound vans in front of all these killing places. It would also be nice to have large HD screens set up in strategic locations with videos of living unborn children, so they can see who they are carrying and who they are killing.
We might also consider finding a way to bring together mothers and couples who are seeking to adopt with offers of financial support. In this way, the baby would go from being a liability to a valuable asset.
We can also find ways of effectively getting all the arguments to these mothers about the negative effects of killing their unborn children, including post abortion syndrome and breast cancer.
We need to have a truly effective professional effort to save as many lives as possible. We simply do not have to tolerate the large numbers of deaths we are enduring. We should be able to develop a tactical plan to drive each killing facility below profit margin, into the red and out of business.
I think a well managed, well financed and well coordinated effort could succeed in a few months in possibly driving the prenatal homicide industry into bankruptcy. Unborn children will not be killed if there is no money to be made killing them.
“They concluded that having an abortion or miscarriage does not increase a woman’s subsequent risk of developing breast cancer.” –cancer.gov
“Therefore, results from epidemiological studies are reassuring in that they show no consistent effect of first trimester induced abortion upon a woman’s risk of breast cancer later in life.” –who.int
(emphasis added to both quotes)
So, not only is this man frightening women at the clinic (who might be there for an abortion, or might be there for birth control, or antibiotics), he’s straight up lying to them. Also, plenty of women come into Planned Parenthood and then go back out again, and not in a body bag, so we can safely assume that they don’t kill women.
If you’re really so worried about preventing abortions, you (the general “you” here meaning “the anti-abortion side”) really need to stop lying about contraception – such as this man’s lovely (and patently untrue) soundbite, “They don’t give out real birth control, they want you to get pregnant so they can kill your baby.”
If Planned Parenthood was all about making money, wouldn’t they have stopped performing abortions? There would be no reason to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding if all they did was provide basic health care for very cheap or free. (Except outright misogyny and class warfare.)
Sorry to address your (singular, Ms Stanek’s) question in a roundabout way, but now I’m returning to it. Does shouting at people change their minds to your side and help your cause? No. It makes you look bad, and scary, and dangerous – and lying just makes you look either stupid or evil.
If you’re interested in “saving babies,” then you need to focus on practical ways to lower the abortion rate: comprehensive sex education, and easy access to reliable birth control (which has a much lower failure rate if the people using it know how to properly do so, hence the sex ed; imagine that). Maybe curbside ministries will stop the occasional women, but why not focus on systematic change that actually works and doesn’t harm your cause by making it look like woman-haters hellbent on class warfare?
For mothers who terminate a pregnancy for a poor prenatal diagnosis, I am afraid this would only add to the pain and confusion they are already experiencing. So yelling would be counter productive. Most women who terminate for this reason, do so because they are grieving the loss of their healthy baby, and think this will help them end the experience sooner. Many of the parents who are part of our coalition, have horrible memories of people pressuring them to terminate when they found out they were expecting a baby with Down syndrome. Any time you get a diagnosis for your child, you will go through a huge period of grief. If during this vulnerable time, the parent does a knee jerk reaction, thinking this will take away their problem, and they terminate, they will always have to live with that. Once you are a parent of a child who happens to have Down syndrome, you are always a parent of a child who has Down syndrome. When they finally realize what they have done, they need compassion and love. I am sure that the yelling, might prevent someone. Not sure what type of person would need that. I have never seen this done at a clinic, as I have only witnessed compassion and love extended to women who are going in to a clinic. Interesting question.
http://www.facebook.com/IDSCforLIFE
Use a big sign saying “Free chocolate”
Then have Dove promises available for those going in and out.
Keep some unopened bags available, and if they would like some, you can open the bag for them right then & there.
That’s not yelling, but it’s a great conversation opener about “promises”, trust etc.
My daughter came up with this yesterday. We have yet to try it, but I’d love to see how this works around the country – perhaps “Promises for Life” during the 40 Days for Life campaign?
(Yes – I’m aware that Dove (M&M Mars) supports the Susan G. Komen foundation. – don’t use those.)
Fangirl, you must be new to any exposure to the pro-life movement. If you want genuine answers to your questions, I’ll be happy to give them to you, but if you’re going to discount whatever answer I give you, I won’t bother. Let me know. :)
Back to the main question…
I think any “yelling” outside abortion clinics should be more along the lines of raising your voice but maintaining a gentle tone as you say things like, “You don’t have to do this” or “We can help you”. To repeat the same points I made on another post, if I were walking into an abortion clinic, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to listen to anyone shouting that I was a murderer, and I’d be grateful to the clinic workers for trying to keep me away from all that. If I later regretted having an abortion, I’d be afraid to ask the shouting people for any help, because I’d be scared they’d just have an “I told you so” attitude and probably shout at me some more.
I also think that bloody abortion pictures are more likely to scare women going into abortion clinics than they are to do anything else. I do think, however, that pictures of un-aborted unborn babies could be very effective, and the younger the better. I think those posters or signs should have the number of weeks old the baby is in huge lettering so it’ll be harder for women to rationalize, “Well, that’s an advanced stage – right now mine is just a clump of cells.”
Dearest young prolifer,
If one is going to get involved with pro-life activism, especially direct action like in front of an abortion center, newbie’s quickly discover it is not as easy as it seems. There is a lot to learn about such things so…as they say… “BE PREPARED”…you need to know what to do in many unusual situations that will occur in this kind of work. How to handle confrontations with all kinds…etc.
I suggest getting some training from a wise and experienced prolifer before you start or as soon as possible. Start by getting the guts to ask the man yelling about his strategy. He probably has a lot to say about it. Augment knowledge of his method with other approaches (like 40 days for life). Then follow your heart.
Keep on doing stuff like what you have done by writing Jill for her advice. It shows you have the makings of someone who can do this kind of work well (and not everyone can). If anything it takes fortitude, passion, and courage…your letter seems to indicate you have a sufficient supply.
May God bless you in your work for life.
Standing on a sidewalk yelling at someone may get some attention but I think the attention will be mostly negative. A woman seeking an abortion usually is in need of help and comfort. The whole idea of trying to speak comfort to someone requires a non-judgmental conversation; I honestly don’t see how this can happen with a total stranger on a city sidewalk. Nor would I think that trying to show them pictures or “lure” them with chocolates would be effective or appropriate. Pro-lifers should not stoop to deception to convey their message of truth. I honestly believe that the silent prayers along with hearts of compassion is the better way to go about saving babies if it is being done on a public sidewalk. Better still is helping women you know (and already have a trusting relationship with) who have an unplanned pregnancy by supporting them both spiritually and physically. There should be no manipulation involved. If they are willing to listen, share the facts about fetal development even using pictures if possible, but do it in a private setting. And, if they don’t want to listen, don’t try to force them to hear you. Ask God to speak to their hearts and minds and just continue to love them and be there for them no matter what they decide to do. God does not violate our free will, even when we make wrong choices. The woman we help to carry her child to term by providing for her and her baby’s needs (maternity clothes, baby clothes, crib, housing, etc) will be blessed for her courage. The woman who decides to have the abortion may someday decide that she made a wrong choice. She may come to you at some point for help in dealing with her decision to abort; that is, if you have not condemned her. Give her the same compassion and support that you gave to the woman who chose not to abort. She needs it just as badly if not more so.
Marauder, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say. Even if I end up disagreeing with your reasoning or conclusions, I do genuinely want to know the basis of pro-life arguments.
If your evidence is largely religious, however, it will likely not be worth your time; I am an unabashed friendly neighborhood godless heathen and, barring personal visits from angels carrying flaming swords, visions of saints, etc., will remain that way. I say this not to offend, but to avoid both of us wasting time on a subject where neither of us will get anywhere.
I might also add that there are many ways to save babies. What’s the best way in any given place or situation will vary…some times by a lot. Be careful of people who say that their way is the only way, or the best way, or that other way is of the devil…etc.
Many prolifers are forever knocking each others methods. Usually it is due ideology differences, but sometimes it comes from territorialism or ignorance. It’s generally unhealthy for the prolife community. If you disagree with the man who yells…develop a relationship with him if you can. Pray for him. AND take action to gently guide him to what you see as the better way. (It will be a good “skills developing” practice for later on if anything else.)
Success is never guaranteed. We are called to be faithful to the truth.
I love it when I see counselors quietly holding PRC signs in front of the abortion clinics. The pregnant woman can make the next move by herself without provocation.
(I’d prefer to say “abortuary” – am I still allowed?)
Have you noticed that some people attend the hellfire and brimstone churches and some people are turned off by them ?
There’s a different kind of messenger for each person and situation.
Some of those screamers keep people from even getting out of the car.
The screamer and the gross pics might push the cars down the road to the crisis pregnancy center.
As long as our screamers aren’t trashing the city and leaving a mess like those Madison, Wisconsin protesters …… variety is good.
Help or hurt what?
Chances the person will change their mind?
The pro-life cause in general?
Chances of a religious conversion?
If I was not pro-life, I’d shoot those (mostly) men who yell at the women going into Planned Parenthood! They do only harm. The focus MUST be the babies. Anyone, interfering with the sidewalk counselors’ trained efforts to dissuade abortion-minded women, is sinning. By shouting he insures a baby will die. In 30 years I never saw a mother turn around because an idiot yells out that she will go to hell if she aborts. Those people should pray (only and quietly) in a place away from the sidewalk counselors.
I am very pro-life but I do no feel comfortable with this type of activism. Sidewalk counseling in a compassionate way- yes. Yelling- no. Even if what they are yelling is not rude.. the fact is, you’re still yelling; and when someone raises their voice at you how do you feel? … put down of course. You’re not going to touch hearts that way or persuade them to walk away for that matter. Has anyone ever come forward and said they decided not to have an abortion because of something a pro-lifer yelled at her?
the escorts turn on a loud radio so any offers of help and compassion can’t be heard.
I would never call a woman murderer. What if she comes to regret the abortion later on and then commits suicide? She never would have the chance for real healing then,
Remember what Abby said helped her change (besides the uiltrasound). Even Miss Norma was swayed by kindness and love.
The facility I have prayed at for the 40 Days for Life vigils is laid out such that you almost have to yell. There is a large lawn in front and a driveway along the left side to the parking lot in the back and building entrance on the side. Then a driveway out on the right side. Legally we are not allowed past the sidewalk out front. Almost no one *walks* in off the street.
We hold signs and try to engage people in their cars, but it’s hard to get through. There is one guy who is there all the time, he holds a huge crucifix and does yell things like “save your baby”. He makes me a little uncomfortable, but I’ve heard stories of women changing their minds because of him. I guess it’s in the delivery, as he does have a gentle almost plaintive tone. And he does call out ways local churches will help them.
But yes, I think yelling is not optimal, but if you must do it, choose your words carefully and be gentle and loving in tone.
I love how they were handing out coupons for free ultrasounds during 40 days for Life. Many moms saw their babies and changed their minds. That is a great solution I think. We need to financially provide so there can be more mobile ultrasound units.
Rod @ 2:39pm (and others)
I generally do not condone yelling at abortion centers. However: 1) the article does not say the man was yelling “your going to hell” or anything mean like that. 2) What happens when there are no side walk councilors available? What happens when the laws, or the physical geography of the place are such that approaching is unavailable as a technique? Prayer cover is vital, but what do you do when calling out is the only direct action available? Never initiate any contact…is that your solution? I don’t have the answers, but can you understand that good people can differ in how to handle different situations?
That being said, I am sure most activists agree that approaching with gentle persuasion offering helpful, credible, information and alternatives are the preferred techniques. Unfortunately, that is not always possible.
1) “Calling out” has met with various kinds of success including saves.
2) “Calling out” has negative consequences that quieter methods largely avoid.
3) Prayer cover is vital, but is a separate kind of ministry from direct action.
When the ultra sound truck is not there…and approaching is not possible…so its just you and your sign that particular morning…calling out might be better than nothing before they open that clinic door. It can be uncomfortable to call out, but who are you to say they shouldn’t when you are at home.
Personally, I prefer to pray and speak when spoken to and sometimes not even then.
Tommy R and Megan are the first ones this sidewalk-counseling veteran has read that are examining this situation in a way that’s more than simplistic. To be fair to these men who are being smeared in that youngster’s email, we have not heard their perspective. Has it dawned on anyone that the young lady’s memory could be faulty and perhaps influenced by her erroneous opinions? I frankly do not trust this young lady’s recollections of what the others said.
I see here a faulty, if unconscious assumption, that “calling out” and “loving approach” are inherently incompatible. As Megan implied, if someone is walking in front of a moving car, it is indeed the “loving approach” to scream bloody murder to the person to save his live. So let’s flush that presumption down the toilet where it belongs.
I’ve been at a variety of abortuaries, with a variety of physical layouts. There were the localities where we could walk with the woman right up to the door (hindered, of course, by pro-choice “deathscorts”). There we can speak in normal tones, as we can be heard. There were other situations where the abortion mill was set back into areas where we were not allowed (monitered again by the deathscorts); there we had no choice but to yell (not scream, but yell) just so we would be audible to the woman. If that is to be judged as “unloving”, perhaps one might need to strip their personal definition of “love” of all its falsely romantic trappings. I might add that too many Christians confuse “being loving” with “being nice”; often in reality the two are diametrically opposed. Our opponents like to confuse pro-lifers (particularly young ones) with that. Falling victim to desires to be liked, they pro-lifers swallow the bait and allow themselves to be muzzled.
From my fifteen + years of being out there, I can tell you it’s not a pseudo-spiritual cake-walk. The place and its surroundings are full of demonic activity. Lives are at stake so it’s no time to put up a falsified “meek and mild” demeanor. In Ephesians, Paul urges us to put on the armor of God, not love beads and flowers in our hair. We need to be people of prayer and of the Sacraments. We also need to strip off the rose-colored glasses, fortify our queesy stomachs, put some calcium in our spines. Of course we must not let ourselves be gagged by imprudent inhibitions. I could say more, but don’t want this to turn into a book.
Janet,
You can say abortuary!
I refuse to call them “clinics.” They are mills to me.
I think it’s ridiculous. Yelling at women entering the clinic is not productive, and it just makes us look bad. This is not a strategy we ought to embrace.
I call them “killing centers” or “killing facilities”, among other names. We need to emphasize that they are places where killing occurs, where crimes are committed.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that “yelling” tells me what I need to know about his tone. He may be following his conscience–I can certainly understand the sense of urgency that must lead him to yell. But it seems more likely to shut a woman down emotionally and lead her to follow the course she has charted than to divert her from it. Some woman or other may get hit a la Damascus Road; it’s like playing Russian rhoulette with only one chamber empty.
Also, some of what he is saying, while it has a basis in fact, is hyperbolic enough that his target will not take him seriously. Most of the rest is so disputed by the pro-choice community that only a reasoned presentation with solid evidence will get through the chinks of mental armor of the “customers.” But this man has alienated them and lost his chance for that sort of presentation.
Contrast this approach with that of the nun described in Abby Johnson’s book–the one who prayed and wept and changed hearts.
Is the purpose of the prayer demonstration outside the clinic to stop imminent abortions from happening? I don’t doubt the man’s intentions or sense of mission, and I understand the magnitude or the issue, and how environment can dictate what kind of communication may or may not be possible. How often do protestors have success getting someone to refrain from entering a clinic by raising their voices at them? Under what circumstances?
Janet says:
I’ve been at a variety of abortuaries, with a variety of physical layouts. There were the localities where we could walk with the woman right up to the door (hindered, of course, by pro-choice “deathscorts”). There we can speak in normal tones, as we can be heard. There were other situations where the abortion mill was set back into areas where we were not allowed (monitered again by the deathscorts); there we had no choice but to yell (not scream, but yell) just so we would be audible to the woman.
All of the above is so true. It is fairly easy to determine who has experience in outreach to abortion bound women in these comments. Words like “yelling” and “screaming” are loaded with connotations of anger and condemnation. This is unfair to the vast majority of pro-lifers who harbor neither with regards to women seeking abortions.
I would offer the expression “calling out” as more accurately reflecting what I observe from pro-life sidewalk counselors. Sometimes it is necessary to raise one’s voice to be heard from a distance. Of course on the rare occasion there is a “yeller” (in the negative) but by and large they are not representative of the vast majority of pro-life activists.
The irony of this discussion is that it misses what really is happening at abortion clinics on a daily basis. If you want to talk “yelling” and “screaming” it is many, many times more likely that this is the behavior of angry choicers who drive by pro-lifers while spewing and screaming obscenities. On the balance it is the “angry left” in our country that has issues with controlling their emotions.
When I am at a killing center, I don’t tell the women they are going to hell, I tell that to the deathscorts!
At some killing centers, it is necessary to yell because you don’t have direct access to the women since you are not allowed on killing center property. So the women are far away, and you can yell “I will take your baby”, or “mommy don’t kill me”.
As for graphic signs, we have got to use them. One person above said that Abby Johnson said that it took an ultrasound during an abortion to change her mind. Unfortunately for some people we are not going to murder babies so that we can change people with an ultrasound during an abortion, which is why we have to show the graphic signs.
Nicole @5:25pm…
You have some great points about the “yelling man” in your comments.
Who knows what his level of experience (or virtue or wisdom or restraint or training or knowledge or strategy). We have all seen the one guy in the group who needs help staying on task. Or the woman who suddenly shouts out “murder” at a critical moment that ruins and alienates. These folks need our help and ought not to be leaders.
At the same time we only know what this inexperienced young prolifer reports and it may not actually be as it seemed to her or as she relates it to us. I can imagine it worse. Nevertheless, it was sufficient to completely turn her off…the man is at least at fault for not explaining his actions to her. He failed as a mentor to the newbie working with him (if that was on his mind at all). He’s a poster boy for keeping prolifers at home and uninvolved…but not because he was yelling. It’s because he ignored her distress at his actions!
Calling out to a person going in to have their baby killed **IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES** might be more positive than negative. We all know of the many times it is certainly negative.
Let’s not judge good people from the sidelines with insufficient facts.
This IS a dilemma only if you perceive communication as an either – or situation. Instead, let as focus on two ways that should favor PL work: 1) the use of small as a primary mechanism for recall long-term memory – so, PL’ers MAY use baby powder (Johnson’s) [as their preferred-perfume-de-jour] to assist in a positive way that ‘babies-smell-good’. b) we should also investigate human pheromone activity between mother and child. Perhaps the strong bonding is related to the particular role of pheromone release when these two are present to one another. Can we exploit this?
2) The second thing we might try is playing (in the background – during street-councilling) a recording of children laughting. Here I was thinking of recording the sounds of recess at a primary school.
Has anyone ever conducted focus groups or done some other type of professional research to determine what works and what does not? This is done to market a new type of shampoo. What our movement is doing is a matter of life and death and yet I get the impression that a large part of the effort being made is amateur, disorganized and hit or miss.
We need leaders of our movement to get together and develop a sound doctrine for achieving our strategic objectives and develop a sound tactical plan for saving as many lives as possible on an immediate basis.
The whole effort to save lives is disorganized and chaotic right now. Would some of you bright conscientious unborn human rights activists consider organizing a summit of movement leaders to create a common approach to the problem so that the effort everywhere is efficient, disciplined and effective?
I learned what worked from my friend who had an abortion history that cost her her fertility. I am so grateful that she shared her story with me.
We prayed a lot, looked at what others did and had a heart for helping women beyond having the baby. It works. Careful, loving, to the point and not angry.
Could we do better? probably. But with 60+ saves in 7 years – and I am not there every day they do abortions. The more we help women, help them see hope and meet there needs, we make very good progress. I hope that God graces us with more saves and more ways we can help women and children.
Right now we are also getting regular folk doing outreach – helping women with food, diapers and furniture. We are pairing up families so the established families can reach out to the kids and women. We just got a whole houseful of furniture donated and we are matching that up with families in need.
Any tax dollars involved? Nope. huge budgets? No. Just volunteers, goodwill and people who want to help. And all the families are grateful.
If we can activate this type of giving/sharing in churches/communities – we can have people having hope and relationship. It works here and can be even bigger. If we had people out at PP all the time, and every family reaching out to their young people, welcoming every child – and if we get to the medical system – we can truly change the tide.
My faithful, faithful rescuing friend on the front lines at the mill says, “If it was your life on the line, wouldn’t you want us yelling to save you”??
Last time I went to the new mega-abortuary in Aurora IL to pray they had installed a mega-sound system outside the mill and pointed cacophonous instrumentals at the side walk counselors so they could hardly communicate with the boys and girls arriving to commit abortion. I proceeded to sing the Our Father in cacophonous melody with the music louder than the speakers for about three hours. Prior to the blaring speakers being installed outside this House of Horrors it was more typical for me to engage in quiet prayer. There is a time and place for quiet and a time and place for shouting. Whatever it takes to get the job done is ok with me. It seemed to me that my singing may have caused some to leave without commiting abortion. Also, more then usual pulled into the the parking lot, sat inside their cars and then left without even going in. lol Some of the things I have been known to yell are “please don’t kill your baby” or “we can help you” or “turn around; wipe the dust from your shoes and run away from this place” or “they will hurt you in there”. etc. etc. etc
B<}
“Do pro-lifers yelling at abortion clinics help or hurt?”
=======================================================
Yes!
With all due respect to Abyy Johnson, her ‘conversion’ is anecdotal.
While she may possess intimate knowedge of how PP really operates, she does not posess intimate knowledge of how HOLY SPIRIT operates.
The timing of ms Johnson’s conversion can only be attributed to HOLY SPIRIT.
To GOD be the glory, now and forever more, not the wit or will of man.
‘There is more than one way to skin a cat’
Do not fall into the trap of believing that a strategy that was successful once will always be successful, even as man measures ‘success’.
GOD does not measure ‘success’ as humans do.
joan says: February 19, 2011 at 8:10 am
“His tone? Is there a nice way to stand in front of a clinic and scream like a lunatic?”
==============================================================
mee gangrene,
I disagree with your mis-characterization of those who raise their voices as ‘lunatics’.
And yes, ‘tone’ does make a difference as in the difference between pleading with some one or accusing some one.
Both may be appropriate depending upon the setting and the circumstances.
If I see a pregnant woman about to step into the path of an oncoming bus, I will raise my voice as loud and as demanding as the lunatic Adolph Hiltler in the hope of saving both her and her pre-natal child.
But you would have sound me a ‘moderate alarm’ so as not to endanger the bliss of the oblivious, the ignorant, the apathetic, and the malignant pedestrians in her midst and the barabarian who is driving the bus.
Prov 1:20-23 20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the markets;
21 She cries at the head of the noisy intersections [in the chief gathering places]; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:
22 How long, O simple ones [open to evil], will you love being simple? And the scoffers delight in scoffing and [self-confident] fools hate knowledge?
23 If you will turn (repent) and give heed to my reproof, behold, I [Wisdom] will pour out my spirit upon you, I will make my words known to you. [Isa 11:2; Eph 1:17-20.] AMP
I might even risk my own life to push her out of the path of the oncomimg bus.
You and others like you would clammor for more funding for public transportation and wait with silently gleeful expectation for the bus and it’s driver to terminate both the pregnant woman and her pre-natal child.
Let us never, ever again say “abortion ‘clinic'”. Please say “killing facility”, “killing center”, “abortion killing center”, “prenatal homicide center”, etc.
The point is, and I cannot emphasize this enough, we MUST win the battle of the language, as well as all the other battles we must win, and we cannot do this using the empty and deceitful language of opponents of unborn human rights. In other words, we must stop using language that helps the abortionists and instead always use language that helps the unborn.
*rubs sleep from eyes* Okay, I’m back home and awake.
Yep, Fangirl, you are clearly new. :) Totally nothing to do with religion.
The thing about studies is, you can never just take one and use it to claim that it proves something definitively. You’ve got to be able to do more studies and keep finding the same thing, and there are multiple studies that have found information that suggests that there is indeed a link between breast cancer and abortion. Is it proven beyond all reasonable doubt? No, but there’s enough data that an educated person can conclude that there’s a link. Some people might not agree. The fact that the “yelling guy” was saying there was a link doesn’t mean he was “lying” at all. It means he believes scientific research that indicates such a link.
Speaking of links, here are some with more information about breast cancer and abortion…
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=abortion+breast+cancer&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
As for Planned Parenthood killing women – yes, they have indeed killed women, though obviously not the majority of women who go in. Here’s a really good site documenting instances of women dying from abortion, both before and after its legalization. Some of them died at Planned Parenthood clinics.
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bldeaths.htm
Planned Parenthood may give out birth control, but it’s far from optimally effective. Consumer Reports found that Planned Parenthood had the worst condoms out of the 23 types they tested; they broke way too easily.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art9057.html
Your question “If Planned Parenthood was all about making money, wouldn’t they have stopped performing abortions?” doesn’t make any sense, because performing abortions is extremely lucretive for Planned Parenthood. Let’s say you work in landscraping. Mowing the lawn makes you five cents each time you do it, but sculpting topiaries makes you a thousand dollars per topiary. You mow the lawn every nine days in the spring, summer and fall, and sculpt three topiaries all on one day. The majority of your services as a landscaper come from mowing the lawn, but sculpting topiaries is what’s really making you good money. Planned Parenthood talks about how abortion is only 3% of what they do, but 3% is the topiary.
There would be no reason to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding if all they did was provide basic health care for very cheap or free.
Basic health care is totally fine with us. If Planned Parenthood didn’t do abortions and stuck to, say, OB/GYN exams and regular check-ups, it would be a great organization. But it does do abortions, and abortion is the deliberate taking of a human life. That’s a scientific fact that has nothing to do with religion.
Planned Parenthood spends a lot of time telling people about birth control and providing it. Anyone who wants a condom can walk into Walgreens, buy one, and read the instructions. Anybody who wants to know how birth control works, how to use it effectively, and how to get some can just walk into Planned Parenthood and ask. If Planned Parenthood is doing a good job of this, why do we keep seeing so many crisis pregnancies? They’ve had the political clout and the federal funding. It doesn’t seem like they’ve done an adequate job, and that’s the job they’ve taken it upon themselves to do.
We try to educate people about what embryos and fetuses are. They’re genetically unique beings with beating hearts and developing organs. They’re human. They’re made from their own human DNA. They may be inside a woman’s body, but they are not actually a part of her body. (Otherwise, pregnant women would have two hearts, two noses, twenty toes, et cetera, and women pregnant with boys would have penises.)
You talk about “class warfare”, so let me respond with some facts about class warfare. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, did not believe in “choice.” As she herself put it in 1919, “More children from the fit, less from the unfit – that is the chief aim of birth control.” She talked about “racial purification” and referred to people she deemed inferior as “human weeds” “who never should have been born at all.” She said that the purpose of birth control was “to create a race of thoroughbreds.” If you were, say, a poor black woman with five kids, Margaret Sanger sure as heck didn’t want you to be able to make the choice to have a sixth child. She didn’t want any more poor black kids in America.
http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm
http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html
We, on the other hand, think people have the right to exist even if their parents are poor, or their mothers are teenagers, or their fathers are jerks, or their grandparents will be embarrassed by them. America is supposed to be a country where everyone is created equal – not born equal. We’re supposed to have certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You don’t have life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness if your tiny body was ripped to shreds as a vacuum sucked you out of your mother’s uterus.
Various American generations have fallen short of their ideals in different ways. Slaves weren’t considered equal Americans because many people considered them to be sub-human. They don’t look like us! They aren’t educated like we are! The law says they aren’t full people, so we should be able to do whatever we want with them, right? Then, after several decades, the issue was so big and so dividing that the country went to war over it and finally slavery ended. Now it’s unborn people who aren’t considered fully human by everyone. They are fully human. They’re as fully human as a toddler, a child, a teenager, and an adult. They’re just at an earlier stage of human development, the way a toddler is at an earlier stage of human development than a teenager. They’re “clumps of cells” only in that we’re all clumps of cells, when you come right down to it.
I was conceived by parents who had been trying for a very long time to have a baby. Some people are conceived by parents who have ho idea how they’d ever manage to raise a child. Does that make us inherently unequal? We can’t help who our parents are, any more than people during the time of slavery could help being white children of plantation owners or black children of field hands. We’re equal human beings. Everyone is supposed to have the same human rights as everyone else, and abortion is one glaring way in which they don’t.
Being unexpectedly pregnant can be tough. We want to help women, couples and families through that. I frequently go shopping for baby clothes and donate them to Birthright – not a religious organization, by the way – so I can do something to help ease the financial burden of people experiencing crisis pregnancies. Does it solve all their problems? No, but it means they can put, say, twenty bucks towards tuition or the rent money instead of a shirt, sweater and pants for the baby. Nobody has to die because their parents aren’t in an optimal position to raise a baby. I volunteer at a homeless shelter and do stuff with the kids there. Some of them are terrific kids who you just want to hug for a long time; some of them are bratty kids whose mothers have no sense of how to discipline them. No matter how sweet or obnoxious they are, I would never want any of them to have died because their families are poor. I’m glad they’re in the world.
I hope that answers your questions. Feel free to ask any more you might have. :)
Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy by Eric Metaxas
with National Review Online’s Kathryn Jean Lopez.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/255411/bonhoeffer-brave-interview?page=2
LOPEZ: How does a Lutheran pastor [Dietrich Bohhoeffer] wind up as a spy?
METAXAS: As I say, Bonhoeffer was no pacifist. He had been part of the conspiracy against Hitler and the Nazis from the beginning, but not in any official capacity. He mostly provided moral support to the resistance. But when the war started, everything changed. Bonhoeffer knew that he couldn’t pick up a gun to fight in Hitler’s unjust war of aggression. At first he escaped to the U.S., but no sooner did he arrive here than he knew God was calling him back to stand with his people in Germany. That’s when he got involved in the conspiracy in an official capacity, as a spy.
His brother-in-law, Hans von Dohnanyi, was a leader in German Military Intelligence, which was actually a center of the conspiracy against Hitler. So Dohnayni hired Bonhoeffer. Of course both of them and many others in the Abwehr were actually working against Hitler and the Nazis. Bonhoeffer was specifically charged with getting word to the Allies — mostly to Churchill’s government — that there were Germans inside Germany trying to bring down Hitler.
Bonhoeffer had no theological problem with deceiving the Nazis. On the contrary, he felt God called him to do it. He knew that when God commands us not to lie, it doesn’t mean that if the Gestapo asks us if we are hiding Jews and we really are hiding Jews, we are obligated to say so. I write about this in my book. Bonhoeffer has a much more nuanced and deeper understanding of these things and he challenges Christians to go beyond mere religious pieties and to really serve God with our whole hearts. In his case, that meant deceiving the Nazis.
LOPEZ: How does a Lutheran pastor wind up in a plot to kill Hitler?
METAXAS: Well, this is an extension of that same idea. God does not say we shouldn’t kill, but that we shouldn’t murder. So we are forced to think about what murder really is. If I am trying to prevent the death and torture of millions of innocent Jews, am I allowed by God to take the life of the tyrant who is overseeing those horrors? Bonhoeffer didn’t have a flippant attitude about any of this, and he even thought that he might be wrong, but he cast himself on God’s mercy. He didn’t know for sure that he was right, but he didn’t lazily and comfortably ignore his responsibility to do what he thought was right just because he had doubts. He knew what was at stake and he knew he had to act.
I was pro-choice for many years, and the yelling protesters outside the clinic in my hometown did absolutely nothing to change my mind about that. If anything, they prevented me from listening to any rational, scientific pro-life arguments because I was so certain I wanted nothing to do with their ilk. Granted, I think that this particular group was more overzealous than most with their raised voices and graphic signs. It certainly not “calling out.” Yells of “murderer” and “going to hell” were often herard when driving past this particular corner. The clinic was also vandalized several times in the 80s and early 90s.
But in answer to the question, I think that protesters that yell outside of clinics do absolutely nothing but hurt the pro-life movement. I think that the question that it brings to my mind is, is it better to stop one abortion at the risk of setting the movement back and bringing us farther from ultimately making abortion illegal? It’s something I’ve been thinking about since I first read this post yesterday.
yor bro ken,
You have sparked a thought in my mind. I don’t know if you intended to suggest this by your last post but, here is what I am thinking:
Both the woman and the unborn child are the potential victims of the abortionists. In order to save them, maybe we need to operate covertly (as Bonhoeffer did) in a more organized manner.
Those who have been on the inside certainly have made an impact on the pro-life movement when they have come to the realization that babies are being murdered and that they are guilty of aiding and abetting. They come out strong and bold for life and that energizes the rest of us.
Also, the videos from recent investigative stings have exposed the practices of PP in not protecting underage girls who are being sexually abused.
I think working from the inside instead of or in addition to working from the sidewalk is an excellent idea! That way access to the mother will not be stopped.
But….the biggest problem is, how to work in such a place? No pro-lifer could in good conscience help end the life of a baby. Maybe there is another way to get on the inside without helping with the abortion.
I am rambling here….thinking out loud. Anybody else have any thoughts on this idea? Or is it just too “out there”?
We’re out there most Saturdays. We don’t scream, or even approach the women. They come to us.
http://dontbuytheabortionlie.blogspot.com/2011/02/sidewalk-counselingreflections-from.html
It might surprise you how much women are longing to hear what we have to say-that they have other choices. Sidewalk counseling can be exhausting and often heartbreaking, but it’s always worth it.
Wow, Ashley. You must know a completely DIFFERENT Jill Stanek than the one WE know.
“Nasty, hateful woman who seems to genuinely hate women who are in crisis pregnancies”….
were you looking in a mirror when you were typing that? If you don’t like her..nobody is FORCING you to visit this site. Seems like you just like to because it’s EASY to sit at your computer and take verbal “shots” at somebody.
Marauder… what a GREAT POST! You hit every talking point right on. Without any hint of snarkiness you gently exposed truth. I had forgotten that they tested condoms and PP were the WORST. How I forgot that I don’t know but that is very telling!
I don’t know why we are comparing women going into an abortion mill to someone stepping in front of a bus. Its not the same because the woman isn’t standing there whistling and daydreaming, unsuspecting of an abortionist sneaking up on her with a suction curette ready to tear the child inside her apart. She (the mother) is fully aware of what she is planning to do. She may not understand the ramifications but she is aware she is heading towards an abortion. We still have time though, we have time to gently offer help and talk her out of it. The baby is not going to die in the next 3 seconds so the bus analogy doesn’t work. People picketing and chanting may scare some potential abortion customers off but so does just standing in front of the clinic. Some women are so fearful of having to walk past pro-lifers and are so filled with shame that just seeing a peaceful person standing there praying will be enough to make them drive on. But for those who do stop and walk towards the abortion mill screaming at them will only make them walk faster into the clinic and ignore anything you have to say to them.
I don’t mean to bash other pro-lifers or their methods but I know from the experience of friends who have sidewalk counseled that speaking calmly and lovingly works better than screaming condemnation. I also know this from friends who have aborted.
One man (one of the screamers) told her about how his girlfriend finally got an abortion and left him. Having lost control of a woman he was abusing, he was there to harass other women while not giving a rat’s behind about their babies.
Or just maybe he was distraught that she had their child killed and he wants to prevent others from going through his pain . . . . .
The same Ashley that left a couple of very prochoice comments on my blog a few months back (she linked from here) playing both sides of the fence, or two different people?
I don’t think it’s a simple yes or no answer; at least not for the yelling aspect. In some places, you have to yell just so they can hear you. In other places, you can be right next to the entrance, so yelling doesn’t make any sense, and probably does hurt more than it helps.
I think the words being said and the tone are far more important than the volume though. In our city, saying things like, “Please, don’t let them kill your baby,” “We love you and want to help you,” and, “Think of your precious baby looking back at you every night. You can have that if you leave here now,” have been a lot more effective than “Thou shalt not kill!” or “Sinners repent lest ye be judged!”
If you have a more compassionate demeanor, the mothers are much more likely to listen to what you have to say. You can still tell the truth (“they will kill your baby”) and be compassionate at the same time (“we want to help you. Please let us”).
That being said, the judgmental, condemning battle cries do far more harm than good. Not only do they instantly turn people off from listening to you, they turn pro-lifers away from wanting to be associated with you and possibly even the pro-life movement itself. You can’t expect people who don’t live in the pro-life movement to understand the logical jumps from “I’m controlling my body” (Planned Parenthood’s lies) to “You’ll go to hell for this.”
Darlajune says: February 20, 2011 at 12:08 pm
“yor bro ken,
You have sparked a thought in my mind. I don’t know if you intended to suggest this by your last post but, here is what I am thinking”
==============================================================
Darla,
My comment was a delay response to the: ‘Is it alright for a christian to lie?’ question of a few days ago.
Here is an account of an incident that ocurred in during the NAZI reign of error and terror.
By 1940 most of the 500 or so pastors who would not bow down to Hitler were in jail or executed. By the time the White Rose decided to take action in 1942 most Germans were scarred to death of the police state they had allowed to enslave them.
But there was sporadic uprisings against Hitler.
One interesting story in the book [Sophie Scholl:White Rose] was when the gov’t banned all the crucifixes from the public schools in Bavaria in 1941. The parents signed protest letters and petitions and even threw the mandatory picture of Hitler out of classroom windows.
The protest was so strong that Hitler backed down.
I am not suggesting anything, but just sharing some history with folks who might be unaware that christians in the 20th century actually resisted, with both lies and criminal acts, when their constitution was subverted, their government was co-opted and their country was being destroyed by an ‘idea’ perpetuated by men/women who had deceived themselves and then their fellow citizens that GOD, religion, and respect for life were passé.
Listen to HOLY SPIRIT and do what HE leads you to do and do NOT do what HE leads you not to do.
This is just off the top of my head so forgive me if it is incomplete:
Things to say or even yell if necessitated by the situation:
Offers of help & support
Abortion alternatives & prolife choices
Believable warnings of harm
Statements of concern & compassion
Things to never yell or even utter:
Religious Accusations or Judgmental stuff aka: hellfire for sinners
Any statement with the word “murder” or “guilty” in it
Actual lies
True things that are not clearly supportable by solid facts
Witty slogans or jokes
Incoherent rants & politics
Personal threats & fightin’ words
Profanity
Anything that is really about defending your own honor or pride
How you phrase your statements as well as the tone and volume are extremely important. It is also important how you look, how you are dressed, your age, your race and gender…the signs you may have and those around you. However, even a cranky looking old bald guy can it pull off if he’s got “the gift”.
Thanks, Sydney! :D
That’s how a lot of the middle-aged men screaming outside clinics feel, too.
And you know this how?
That’s what my boyfriend did to me, which made me go even faster to the abortion clinic.
Stop blaming your bf, Jill Stanek, adoption centers or anyone else for your choice to abort Ashley (Herzog?).
Good Lord, own it already.
Welcome back, Ashley. I’ve been wondering how you’ve been doing.
Alhough at the rate your posts are being deleted, you may not be here for long.. .
You know, if you read through the other comments, you’ll find that there are a ot of people who agree with you, at least in general, about the uselessness of certain tactics, such as yelling, in front of abortion clinics.
You’re wrong to think your ideas will get you banned. But gratuitous insults directed at Jill or anyone else just might.
Ashley was already banned – months ago – and she knows it. The removal of her comments since then have had nothing to do whatsoever with their content.
Although, I must say, reading some of the comments toward Jill were so far off the mark, I’m not really sure what to think about Ashley’s current mental state.
@Tommy R,
Well said! I could not agree more.
It’s not that the message was wrong but the message delivery leaves a lot to be desired. I am sorry I can’t imagine listening to people who are screaming statements like that at me. I certainly wouldn’t go to them for help. We always have to try to put ourselves in the shoes of the women going in.
Awesome post Marauder. I continue to pray for you and wish you God’s best. So glad you are here, you are a blessing.
One could add the following to the list started @ Tommy R. 4:32pm
Things to never yell or even utter:
Conspiracy theories (even if true)
Thanks Andrew :)
Then it’s someone using her exact same email from the exact same town she lives in, Sydney. Ashley needs our prayers.
Not to rehash old drama, but didn’t AH get banned because she was also posting under another name and making comments under that name that were way more venomous towards us than the comments under her own name were?
Yes.
Ashley, you are so very wrong about Jill. She isn’t anything like you have described her, and she truly cares about you, btw.
The problem is, we have no way of knowing what the tone of the pro-lifer described in this e-mail really was.
I can easily imagine those words being said in a compassionate, welcoming manner, even with one’s voice raised (as it necessary in some locations). I can also imagine them being said in a confrontational manner that shuts down dialog.
Perhaps this pro-lifer was reaching out to abortion-bound women in an ineffective manner. On the other hand, there’s also a chance that the young woman who wrote the e-mail is so uncomfortable with the idea of actually intervening out loud that she might have judged any sidewalk counseling effort as inappropriate.
So we have to be careful how we respond to this question. I’ve seen my share of pro-life witness that was belligerent and confrontational — even cruel. But I’ve also seen people stand by meekly, lacking the courage to say the one or two words that might save a baby, lest they be accused of “harassing” anyone.
Without knowing what the actual situation was at this clinic, it’s dangerous to go condemning the pro-lifer for being inappropriate. We just don’t know.
I’d suggest that Jill encourage the young woman to see this man’s actions in the best possible light. Even if he’s going over the top, let’s start first with the sincerity of his desire to save the mother and child from abortion; let’s talk about the stakes involved that might lead someone to raise his voice too much or adopt a tone that shifts from helpful to frantic.
It’s also critical for all of us to develop a stomach for working side by side people whose approach we don’t love. God help us if we turn our backs on the child in the womb because we don’t want somebody to think we’re with the yelling guy.
If you don’t like somebody’s approach, the best response is to SIMPLY DO IT YOUR WAY, rather than complain about that other person. Pro-life activism is TOUGH, and it’s all too easy to find excuses for staying home.
All that said, it is important for us to develop an ethos of compassion and outreach in all our ministry out at the abortuaries. This is, in general, the prevailing ethos at most abortion facilities where pro-lifers are active. But too many activists out on the front lines take a confrontational approach that does not work.
The way to change that, I’m convinced, is to invite new people to get involved and teach them the ways we’ve learned are most effective. The “cranks” out there are not going to change, I’m afraid. But we can reduce their impact by increasing the ranks of those who use best practices at the abortuaries.
Eric Scheidler
Executive Director
Pro-Life Action League
Marauder, God has a plan for you and I pray one day you will be willing to let Him reveal it to you. My favorite scripture is Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you says God, plans to proper you not for your destruction (or to harm you) but to give you a hope and a future.”
BTW I do not think yelling at abortion minded women is usually effective but there may be rare exceptions.
I think He revealed it already, Prolifer L. Thanks, though.