But with her hit NBC show still going strong, Fey, who is five months along, says she decided to go ahead with getting pregnant.
“My husband and I really decided that we felt rather than risk having the show end in several years and feeling like part of our family is missing that we were going to prioritize our family.”
~ 30 Rock actress Tina Fey, People.com, April 12
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Having watched the video of Tina on the Oprah show I couldn’t help but notice how the big news seemed to be “over the top” for Oprah…a standing ovation!!!! Wow Tina Fey is having a second baby…I don’t get it. I love seeing pregnant women…throughout my life I have known many women who have been pregnant; never I’ve I ever thought of giving them a standing ovation, a yeaaaa, but never a standing ovation. Could it be to compensate for her belief in abortion?
Hi Ann Marie,
I watched OPRAH a bit in her earlier years (who has time these days?). It’s disappointing that Oprah has never taken a pro-life stance on abortion. Instead, she has proclaimed motherhood as the most difficult job in the world, with that being the reason she hasn’t had children. I think she’s correct in saying that motherhood is the hardest job we’ll ever have, but her tone was discouraging at times, IMHO. I’ve prayed that she becomes a pro-life spokeswoman in spite of the pro-abort/pro-choice leanings of the media and her Hollywood friends. Still praying…
~~~
Fey, who is five months along, says she decided to go ahead with getting pregnant.
I’m happy she was able to get pregnant. Congratulations!
There must be a better way to say this to be more sensitive to women who have difficulty getting pregnant. The way it’s phrased, it sounds as if it were as simple as getting on the phone to her mechanic and making an appointment for that oil change she’s been putting off. Pregnancy is not something that can be willed, but this idea has become prevalent among those who see pregnancy as a choice. The human being is viewed as a commodity to be chosen or discarded.
Tina Fey is also ardently pro-choice, so she is stating that she is exercising her CHOICE to have a child, and I totally support that!
Also, regarding Oprah, she has never openly stated that she is pro-choice (it would alienate viewers) but it’s clear through her stance on most issues that she is pro-choice
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/17/winfrey-losing-baby-as-a-teen-was-my-second-chance/?hpt=C1
Caitlin,
Tina Fey is also ardently pro-choice, so she is stating that she is exercising her CHOICE to have a child, and I totally support that!
I didn’t know Fey is pro-choice. Well that would explain her choice of words. (See my prior comment.)
What’s the choice? Paper or plastic? Chocolate or vanilla? Nope. Choice is a euphemism for “murder” or “don’t murder.”
My body belonged to me at conception. My body belonged to me at 6 weeks gestation, 10 weeks, and 20 weeks. At no time was my dna someone else’s. At no time did my body belong to my mother as if it were property. My cells were not my mother’s cells. My mother could choose paper or plastic, chocolate or vanilla. My mother had no right to murder me. ‘my body my choice’ is a bumper sticker, not a just rationalization for murder.
Yes, those are all choices. Some choices are small, like chocolate or vanilla, or paper or plastic. This is a large choice: whether or not a pregnancy is right for the woman who has to carry it.
Caitlin, the woman is carrying a CHILD, a tiny developing human being, not a pregnancy. The choice is whether or not to kill that child.
Just wanted to clarify that for those who still don’t get it.
Oh I get it. I still think women should have the right to decide whether or not to become a mother, and to carry that pregnancy to term.
Caitlin,
Those trite cliches won’t wash when you meet your Maker.
Psalm 139:13-16
“For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.
14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.”
16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Caitlyn,
You don’t get to decide whether or not to be a mother when you are pregnant. The truth is that once you are pregnant you already are a mother. The only “choice” you are making at that point is whether or not to kill your child. You can use all the Orwellian language you wish. That does not change the fact that abortion is killing.
It doesn’t change the fact that no matter what it is, no matter what political euphemisms you choose to use, I still support.
And I don’t believe in a “maker,” so I choose not to be swayed by ridiculous religious propaganda and rhetoric.
What exactly is it that you “get,” Caitlin? Do you mean you get that a pregnant woman is carrying a child but you think she has the right to kill it? Then please just say so. If you get it, just own up to it and stop pretending you can hide the truth behind misused words. Or do you still not get the difference between “pregnancy” and “child”???
Sure, if you want to put it in those terms: if a woman is pregnant with a child she does not want to carry to term, then I believe she has the right to an abortion, or the right to kill it, if that’s the term you’d like to use.
Women should have control over their own bodies, and enduring an unwanted pregnancy places them out of control. That’s not okay, it’s not right, and it’s bad for communities, families, and women.
Caitlyn,
You do not have to believe in a maker to understand that it is the killing of a child. Ask an embryologist or biologist. They will confirm that at the moment of conception a unique human individual is formed with her own unique DNA and everything she needs to develop into an adult like you or me. “Embryo” and “fetus” are stages of human development just like “newborn,” “toddler” and “teenager.”
The good thing is that by commenting in here, you are sure to get plenty of prayers for your well-being. I know you will be getting my daily prayers, and I am certain that I will not be alone. Everyone commenting here loves you and truly hopes for the best for you.
If you ever feel the need to get some healing, try Rachel’s vineyard. Or a quick internet search for “post abortion healing” will yield numerous results.
God bless you.
And by the way, Caitlyn, it is not her own body that a woman is exerting control over when she has an abortion. It is her child’s. I will also point out that even though you don’t believe in God, he believes in you.
First of all my name is Caitlin, with an I, and it doesn’t take more than a second of glancing at my name to know how to repeat those keystrokes on your own keyboard.
Second, please do not waste your prayers on me. I am happy with my life, happy with my decisions, happy to support the pro-choice movement, and happy to wait until this horrible generational disease of anti-choice, bigotry, and racism dies out.
And you do not “love” me, you all hate pro-choicers and mock them mercilessly. I have no love for you who try to limit my reproductive freedom, please do not pretend that you feel that for the other side.
Hi Caitlin,
You are so happy, happy, happy with your life, your decisions and your support of the proabortion movement that you need to come here numerous times a day to tell us how happy, happy, happy you are!!!!
It’s called denial.
Hi Caitlin.
You mentioned that “Women should have control over their own bodies, and enduring an unwanted pregnancy places them out of control.” If we understand that women have control over their bodies in a very absolute sense, it seems to lead to some difficult to accept consequences.
Let us consider the following thought experiment. In some parts of Africa, the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) is quite rampant. Sometimes those parents who practice it on their children come over to the US and would like to have it done on their newborn daughters. Of course, this is a horrific and brutal act of mutilation, as I am sure many pro-choice feminists would agree. There should be no tolerance for FGM in our civilized society.
However, there is a compromise. Since the fate of the unborn in the womb is subject to teh woman’s wishes, as long as the mother wished, she could (hypothetically) have her unborn daughter’s genitals mutilated while the daughter was still INSIDE her mother. Though we probably don’t have the science behind doing this down yet, I’m sure we could figure it out. It would probably be easiest to do right before birth, the time at which the fetus gains rights. Thus, since the fetus has no rights, there should be no moral qualms about mutilating a female fetus’s genital while it is still in the womb.
Does that make sense? Do you support in utero FGM? If not, it seems that you would be placing a limitation on the control a woman has over her body. If so, this seems to be a morally repugnant choice to be able to slice up your daughter’s genitals as long as she is still inside your womb. God love you.
Or maybe she actually is happy. She had a problem, took care of it, and now it’s not a problem. That seems like something to be happy about.
Caitlin, since you feel that prolifers “hate” you, and according to you, the feeling is mutual, then why are you here? Why do you post at a blog where you feel that people hate you? I don’t hang around Klan or neo-Nazi blogs. And when you are saying “generational” disease, I assume you mean the older crowd. I fall into that category, but go to any pro-life event and you will see many, many pro-life young people.
Oh btw, I’m African American and I’m not racist or bigoted towards anyone.
Anyway, this is Jill’s blog, but I don’t know why she choses to spotlight ardently pro-abortion actresses like Tina Fey. I was never a big fan of SNL, but I know that they have ridiculed prolifers in the past, and conservatives even more so. I mean, what’s the point?
An innocent, preborn human child died.
Carla, I come here multiple times a day to tell you how happy I am with my life, because you all believe that I should be reading up on “post abortive healing” or some other garbage about feeling so sad about my life and my decisions.
The “facts” posted here by Jill Stanek are not facts at all, and it’s scary and sad to see people making laws based on lies. John Kyl lied on the floor of the house that 90% of Planned Parenthood’s services are abortions, which was a LIE. You all believe it as fact, which is a terrible case of ignorance. I come here because I am happy to exercise my right to tell my truth, and argue for what I believe is right. It has nothing to do with denial.
Bobby, you’re right, that IS a hypothetical. I oppose FGM (even in the womb, in this insane scenario you’ve created in your head) and I support abortion. The two are not connected.
Carla, aborted pregnancies are not “preborn” because it was never “born.” You can’t be “pre” something if you never reach that state.
Caitlin,
“I oppose FGM (even in the womb, in this insane scenario you’ve created in your head) and I support abortion. The two are not connected.”
Why do you oppose it? If a woman wants to do that with her body, who are you to tell her that she can’t? It’s her choice.
I cannot see how the two are not connected. The choice of abortion (at least as you defended it above) and the choice for in utero FGM are based on the same principle- that is, bodily ownership of the woman who has the right to do what she pleases with her body.
I oppose FGM in all instances what’s so hard to believe about that?
I believe that women have the right to decide whether or not to remain pregnant once they become pregnant. I don’t think that FGM is ok ever, and i dont think the hypothetical question of whether you can alter a fetus makes any sense.
Caitlin,
“aborted pregnancies are not “preborn” because it was never “born.” You can’t be “pre” something if you never reach that state.”
This is just patently false. An 11 year old is a preteen, but if she dies before turning 13, that does not at all undermine that she was a preteen. Many people at my school are premed, yet they never end up going into medicine. That does not at all undermine the fact that they are still premed. The prefix pre is simply there to emphasize that that person is looking forward (not in a conscious sense) to a particular stage of life.
Caitlin, You are in the exact same place I used to be in.
I justified it and so do you.
Not too hard to figure out.
Abortion takes a human life. That is the truth you refuse to see. Maybe one day when you are pregnant and you get to the photos of fetal development of a 6 week old, the same age your first child was when she died, you might understand.
Not sure why she needs to explain herself to anyone.
“I oppose FGM in all instances what’s so hard to believe about that?”
So what happens when your opposition to FGM conflicts with your support of the right of teh woman to decide what she will do with her body? That is what is so difficult to understand.
“I believe that women have the right to decide whether or not to remain pregnant once they become pregnant.”
I realize this. When you gave a reason for why you believe this, you claimed it was based on the principle of the woman being able to deciude what she does with her body. So there is another thing a woman can do with her body which is FGM to the unborn.
“I don’t think that FGM is ok ever, and i dont think the hypothetical question of whether you can alter a fetus makes any sense.”
How does it not make sense? We can go in with forceps and rip the unborn’s legs and arms off- why can’t we go in and slice up the genatles?
And Caitlin, you’re missing the point of this thought experiment. Women have a right to do what they want with their bodies, no? If this right is absolute so that they can kill an unborn human being, why can’t they perform FGM to the unborn? At least the unborn is allowed to live then.
Hi Jeanette,
Tina or Caitlin??
Folks usually come to a public forum to discuss things that they have stated, things they believe in and generally have a dialogue on the topics they bring up.
Caitlin is discussing her happiness and I get to comment back.
“Pregnant with a child.” “Right to kill it.” There we have it. The truth. ANYTHING else is euphemism. Being pregnant with a child is scientific truth, that abortion kills that child is scientific truth, not just a “way of putting it.” “Putting it” any other way is propaganda and rhetoric and a deceptive smokescreen. I can understand why you and so many others prefer to hide and hide from the truth. It’s emotionally devastating when you let it sink in–when you finally realize what you’ve done and what you’ve encouraged others to do.
“Enduring” an unwanted pregnancy takes a LOT more–a WHOLE lot more–self-control than hiring someone to kill your unborn child. Having your unborn child killed is weakness, not strength. It is good for communities, families, and women to support women in having the self-control to not let their unborn child be killed for pay. No “religious rhetoric” is necessary to make that point. (Faith, however, is a key ingredient in developing the self-control not to pay for murder. And many weak and wounded woman are coerced into it by “unreligious” propaganda and rhetoric.)
Just because you used to be in a similar place that I am doesn’t mean that we have anything in common, nor does it mean that I will eventually reach this sad state that you have reached. I’m happy in my pro-choice political job, I am VERY happy to have terminated my pregnancy because it means that I don’t have to raise a child with almost no money, and I’m happy to keep fighting what I believe to be the Good Fight.
No one tore limbs off of my fetus when I aborted it. I had a medical abortion and I simply released the uterine lining and the lining took the fetus with it. It was not violent, it was not awful, I was very happy to have the option available to me, and I will never regret it. I know that had I carried the pregnancy to term that it would be a child, and that doesn’t change my mind at all.
I guess she’s also happy that she deprived a waiting family of a baby that could have been adopted.
My mother had no right to murder me. I have a right to my own body. My mother does not have a right to destroy MY body. I am not pro-life because of rhetoric. I’m pro-life because I have a right to my own body. Every human has a right to his or her own body. No mother has the right to ‘terminate’ my body or anyone else’s body. My body, my choice to keep living in it.
Caitlin,
I was not trying to imply that your abortion was late-term. The point is that there are some abortions which take place in second trimester (dilation and evacuation) and that abortion method does involve tearing limbs off of the unborn. The idea is then that when teh female fetus is more fully developed, we could develop a procedure to perform FGM on the fetus in accord with the woman’s wishes.
Have a happy day, Caitlin!!! :)
Carla, I come here multiple times a day to tell you how happy I am with my life, because you all believe that I should be reading up on “post abortive healing” or some other garbage about feeling so sad about my life and my decisions.
Caitlin, not to be rude, but do you really think that we sit around obsessing about you 24/7? I come here to read about prolife news and dialogue with other prolifers. You’re happy, happy smiling about your abortion, you’ve said it many times, we get it. Other women don’t feel that way, and they don’t feel that post-abortive healing is “garbage.”
Anyway, I do want you to know that I appreciate your husband’s service to our country and the sacrifices you both are making. I know that because I am “anti-choice” and “hate” you probably think I’m not sincere, but I am.
It’s a hypothetical, and I would never endorse FGM on a fetus that the mother intended to carry to term.
That doesn’t change my mind that if a woman chooses to terminate a pregnancy and not carry it to term, that it’s her decision.
No, I don’t think you obsess over me. She asked me why I came here so often, and I said it’s because I’d like to give a balanced view of abortion: that it’s not something that causes all women distress or sadness, that it should be legal, and that a lot of the things portrayed on this site are lies. I made no allusion to you all caring whether or not this is true, though I am honored that Carla recognizes my name from my postings. They must have had an impact on her.
Caitlin (sorry for the earlier mis-spelling),
Actually, many of us do love you in a way that you may not understand. But maybe some day by the grace of God you will come to understand. At least that is what we will be praying for.
“I guess she’s also happy that she deprived a waiting family of a baby that could have been adopted.”
A waiting family that is in no way entitled to have access to infants for adoption. A waiting family that would be able to adopt an older child in need with comparatively less difficulty than adopting a newborn baby. I have no sympathy whatsoever for would-be “parents” who supposedly are desperate to adopt, and yet unwilling to consider anything but an infant.
Made an impact on me?
Um. As a moderator here I engage with quite a few folks. That I engaged with you is not that big of deal really.
And……YES I can spell. Go me.
Well Caitlin, that’s fine that it doesn’t change your mind, but I can not see how you resolve what I would see to be cognitive dissonance at this point. You hold to principle A. From principle A, X follows and you hold to X. Also from principle A, Y follows, but you don’t hold to Y. So I would not be able to get past the fact that a principle that I hold to leads to something horrific. I would either have to accept the horror or rethink my principle. God love you.
“…aborted pregnancies are not ‘preborn’ because it was never ‘born.’ You can’t be ‘pre’ something if you never reach that state.” I make my living as an editor and that sentence simply doesn’t make any sense. Aborted pregnancies are not preborn? Because “it” was never born? Your efforts NOT to call a spade a spade produce some absurd sentences. Now let me see if I can translate: Children (not pregnancies) killed in the womb by abortionists cannot be called preborn because they will not be born? Is that what you meant? “Pre” means “before.” So “preborn” means “before being born.” So, do you mean that a child killed by abortion, who by definition hasn’t been born yet, cannot be called preborn? The term “preborn” has nothing to do with whether the child is eventually born (or dies from abortion or dies and is miscarried). As long as the unborn child is living, he or she is “preborn.”
“i dont think the hypothetical question of whether you can alter a fetus makes any sense.” Doctors have performed life-saving surgeries that “alter a fetus” without removing her or him from the womb. That’s AMAZING and makes complete sense!
Caitlin, you are trying SO hard to make sense out of something that doesn’t make any sense that you are writing sentences that don’t make any sense.
Caitlin – you doth protest too much regarding your happyness.
Additionally – your child is always your child, from the moment of conception on – that doesn’t change. In other word, you still birthed a child – although a dead child. Pregnancy is a legal diagnosis and technically if you had an abortion, you were “with child”, no matter how much you want to deny that.
It’s a hypothetical, and I would never endorse FGM on a fetus that the mother intended to carry to term.
What if the mother didn’t intend to carry the pregnancy to term? What if, for whatever reason, she felt compelled to perform FGM on her unborn daughter prior to aborting her? Let’s say FGM is REALLY REALLY important to this pregnant woman for some strange and inexplicable reason. If she can find a doctor willing to do it, and pay him, should she be able to get her daughter’s genitals mutilated before having the abortion?
Caitlin, you mentioned the Republican senator who erred in mentioning the percentage of abortions done by Planned Parenthood. These were the senator’s words (forget his name) not Jill’s Could you please point a lie that Jill has printed here?
“I’m happy in my pro-choice political job”
Well, I guess we know why you come here now.
Chris, it’s spelled “happiness”
Carla, what are you talking about regarding spelling?
Alice, I was referring to the hypothetical of whether doctors are offering genital mutilation to fetuses, which I oppose. It’s a nonsensical hypothetical set up to try to “trap” me into saying something contradictory. Of course I am in favor of fetal surgeries, I am also against fetal mutilation, and I am also pro-abortion.
And just because we colloquially use the pre-fix “pre” doesn’t mean that we’re using it correctly, as I’m sure you can appreciate as an editor, Alice PA.
As far as lies perpetuated by this site?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/planned-parenthood-challenged-on-purported-mammogram-claim/2011/03/30/AFjCFO3B_story.html
“generational”, hmmm Caitlin? Well don’t hold your breath honey. My son is 4 and he is pro-life. He cares enough about the issue that he saves his pennies to buy diapers for CPC’s and has seen his own ultrasounds from when I carried him. He understands that was HIM inside of me, not the “potential” him. Don’t know why a 4 year old can grasp this and adult pro-aborts can’t.
So hopefully my son has a long long life ahead of him in which to defend the lives of others.
Sorry, I meant point out a lie that Jill stated here.
Another menopausal moment . . .
What lie does the WaPo site expose that Jill made? The things I bring away from this article are tht 1) PP does manual breast exams, but does not do mammograms and refers for them; and 2) Abortions constitute 3 to 4% of PP’s services.
oh cool, he’s 4 and has no concept of the complexities of poverty, gender discrimination, institutional oppression, sex, rape, politics, violence, women’s issues, or constitutional rights?
Sounds like he’s making a really informed decision, and I should totally respect that a 4-year old wants to make decisions regarding my uterus.
Excellent point, Alexandra. That is simply devastating.
Caitlin, I get it now: if you were to allow yourself to accept the truth about preborn human life and about abortion, you would lose your job and probably all your friends. That’s pretty scary!
When I observe and listen to “pro-choice” (euphemism) people (now that I’m not one anymore), I feel like someone who is looking through a window into a dimly lit room where people wearing blindfolds are groping their way around by following the well-worn path laid out for them by an evil captor who has convinced them that they can actually see with their hands. And they just keep going back and forth along those paths because that’s all they know, so it makes perfect sense to them. They don’t realize that they are actually trapped and that all the paths laid out for them avoid the doors. And they don’t realize that on the other side of those doors is true vision and freedom. They also don’t realize that a lot of us who are looking in through the windows used to be held captive in those rooms too but through the persistent love of those on the outside we were eventually able to escape.
I have great empathy for all of you. It took a lot of (some of it tough) love to get me out of there. You can call us what you want but we have the advantage of now knowing the difference between prison and freedom, whereas you still know only prison. And we will never stop trying to get you out of there before it becomes permanent.
Hey he’s 4 and he gets the basic concept Caitlin that a baby is a baby is a baby and you don’t get to kill babies. period. You’re an adult and your head is as hard as a rock! Don’t get it.
that is a very flowery analogy for an editor, Alice PA.
I choose not to be pro-choice to keep my job or friends, i am pro-choice because it’s what I believe in. I am not imprisoned in my belief system, and the condescension that you package as “empathy” is fooling no one.
Guess what, Sydney, the world is not that simple.
We make decisions day in and day out that affect our death date: whether we wear our seat belts, whether we eat well, whether we smoke or drink, whether we decide to treat cancer after a diagnosis etc etc etc. The complexities of our decisions regarding when we’ll die also apply to deciding when a person will live.
It’s more complex than simply “it’s a baby and you don’t get to kill babies.”
Also, I wish my head was as hard as a rock because then I’d be able to ride my bike without a helmet.
Caitlin, good grief! The world is not that hard! When times get tough and I don’t have money (which I don’t) or his father and I have a fight or he is sick or whatever reason mirrors the reasons women abort, I don’t get to kill my son. We don’t kill innocent people to fix our problems. If its not okay after people are born it shouldn’t be okay before people are born.
Caitlin, I believe a day or two ago, you insisted that PP does indeed provide mammograms. So, who exactly is perpetuating a lie here?
At first, I thought you were serious about actually listening to facts. Now I know better. Enjoy your pro-abortion propaganda.
BTW, everybody be sure to call Komen and ask them what all that $$ is going to PP for.
“Also, I wish my head was as hard as a rock because then I’d be able to ride my bike without a helmet.”
LOL
I said that planned parenthood offers access to mammograms.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppsi/free-mammograms-pap-smears-17602.htm
that’s not a lie.
Sydney,
of course you dont get to kill your son, he is a child.
A pregnancy, while containing the building blocks for a human life, is not a born, living, independent human. It is not a child.
You can’t be “pre” something if you never reach that state.
I guess prenatal is not a real term, then. Or preadolescent (I guess if you die when you’re 9 or 10, you can’t be called a preadolescent?).
Wow, it just gets more ridiculous.
Carla, I come here multiple times a day to tell you how happy I am with my life, because you all believe that I should be reading up on “post abortive healing” or some other garbage about feeling so sad about my life and my decisions.
Don’t you think that would be better saved for, like, a “happy abortion” fellowship/therapy/support group? This is a pro-life blog. You apparently have a pro-choice political job which you’re not busy doing since you’re commenting here.
Kel, you don’t know the hours my office is open, so don’t assume that I’m not doing my job.
And no, you can’t be pre-something if you never reach that state. Prenatal refers to “pre birth” which you are, if you’re intending to carry the pregnancy to the state of birth.
You are a pre-teen if you reach the age of “teen,” but if you die at 10, you are a 10 year old, having never reached that state.
My mother does not have a right to kill me because she is poor, or because my father is a criminal. What other crimes does a father commit that makes you think you can kill his innocent children? Is rape worse than murder? Shall we track down the murderer’s children and kill them, no matter their age? Why stop at pre-born? If we’re going to kill to punish criminal parents, and we’re going to kill because parents are poor, why stop at the cervix? Why not just start killing whomever we please?
No one has a right to commit murder. And certainly no one has a right to kill developing children of any age. It IS that simple.
No Caitlin, you’re wrong. I’ve been through pregnancy. No one is going to spout those lies to me. I SAW THE ULTRASOUNDS AND FELT HIS KICKS. He was NOT “building blocks”. He was a HUMAN BEING. He WAS A CHILD. I am sorry but are you clueless? I am a woman! I DON’T HAVE A PENIS yet my son did even while in my womb!
I felt my first flutters when I was 14 weeks pregnant. Many women abort at that stage. There was clearly life in my womb. I had my first ultrasound at 5 weeks. My son had a beating heart and discernible arms and legs and you could even see his eye sockets. This was a human child not “building blocks”. It is ABSURD that some woman in denial is going to spout such rubbish to me. I lived through it. You can’t peddle your propaganda to me.
“he…has no concept of the complexities of poverty, gender discrimination, institutional oppression, sex, rape, politics, violence, women’s issues, or constitutional rights?” SO the answer to poverty, gender discrimination, institutional oppression, sex (?), rape, politics (?), violence, women’s issues, and constitutional rights (?) is to do violence to preborn human beings? Is this what you would teach a four-year-old? Rather than teach him that human beings have the power and responsibility to protect one another from poverty, gender discrimination, institutional oppression, rape, and violence? Abortion IS violence. It is degrading (whether or not you realize you’ve been degraded or that you are degrading others). To kill a poor woman’s preborn child rather than give her the financial (and other) support she needs to care for that child (and the rest of her family) is disrespectful of that woman, her child, her family. To kill a preborn female child is gender discrimination. To convince a woman that she must kill her child or lose her job or her career is gender discrimination and institutional oppression. To kill the preborn child of a woman pregnant by rape is to rape her a second time. To claim that abortion is the best solution to these serious issues simply perpetuates and reinforces these problems and the harm they cause. Abortion ADDS harm. So you feel that abortion has saved you? That’s a lucky and selfish illusion.
I’ve been pregnant too! I was pregnant and saw the ultrasound and knew that it wasn’t right for me to be pregnant. I’m glad the time was right for you and happy that you were at the point in your life where that pregnancy was a wanted thing.
Just because it has arms and eye sockets and legs doesn’t mean it’s a pregnancy that i was ready to carry to term.
also, I’m not sure what my reaction is supposed to be regarding you yelling about not having a penis, so I’m just going to say “good for you!”
Caitlin you’re like a virgin trying to convince a sexually active woman what sex is like and that bliss you felt was not orgasm. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? You didn’t see your ultrasounds and watch your child kick and twirl on the screen. I DID. You didn’t watch your belly grow month to month and see your child physically move in your womb. You didn’t give birth because if you did you would know how absolutely out of touch with truth and reality your comments are.
Its called DENIAL. But please, assure us how “happy” you are once again!
If an OB has no idea a patient will miscarry, then why is that patient receiving prenatal care? Why receive a prenatal ultrasound?
This is gonna be like your “Chile/Chili” argument, isn’t it? LOL
Oh, btw, what you said re: Planned Parenthood was:
@gerard nedal
Do you think, just maybe, that the people who “investigated” the claim that Planned Parenthood performs mammograms knew exactly which individual clinics did not offer them, and called them specifically?
It doesn’t mean that Planned Parenthood doesn’t offer mammograms, it means that those specific ones that were chosen for phone calls didn’t offer them, and the “investigators” knew that in advance
@gerard nedal Do you think, just maybe, that the people who “investigated” the claim that Planned Parenthood performs mammograms knew exactly which individual clinics did not offer them, and called them specifically? It doesn’t mean that Planned Parenthood doesn’t offer mammograms, it means that those specific ones that were chosen for phone calls didn’t offer them, and the “investigators” knew that in advance
Are you now saying you knew all along that PP does NOT offer mammograms, despite what you said yesterday?
“You are a pre-teen if you reach the age of “teen,” but if you die at 10, you are a 10 year old, having never reached that state.”
Wait, Caitlin, you die at 10 so you never were a preteen- when DOES someone become a preteen? Only when they actually become a teen? So that they’re a preteen when they turn 13? When is someone a teen then? Or is it that once you become a teen, THEN you can look back and say “when I was 10, I was a preteen” but when you actually were 10 you weren’t a preteen? I’m genuinely confused about what the criteria for being a preteen is and who does and does not count as a preteen.
I guess my question is what is the point of the term preteen or premed or preanything if it only refers to someone who actually is in that state?
Alice PA,
so you’re saying that we should give financial support to low-income women…such as welfare?
Its not building blocks Caitlin. Its not part of the woman’s body (thats why I was ‘yelling” about not having a penis) Stop stepping around the issue. You can’t acknowledge your baby was a separate, unique, human being because to do so would bring you face to face with the cold reality of the horrible choice that you so coldly defend.
A pregnancy, while containing the building blocks for a human life, is not a born, living, independent human. It is not a child.
There is no requirement that a “child” be “independent.” In fact, children usually aren’t.
Proteins (amino acids) are the building blocks of human life.
Please do explain to me how a living sperm and a living ovum can combine to create a non-living cell.
Kel,
oh you mean when Jill Stanek translated Chile, the country, into “chili?”
yeah, that was pretty ridiculous and stupid, I have to agree.
Gonna answer about something that actually matters now, Caitlin, instead of correcting Jill’s grammar? :)
Preteen (according to Merriam-Webster’s, the industry standard) — a boy or girl not yet 13 years old.
The definition is NOT: term used by a teenager or others to refer to the teenager when speaking about the teenager’s life before he or she turned thirteen.
Caitlin has to pick apart ridiculous things like “pre” and “Chili/Chile” because Caitlin doesn’t really have anything of substance to say.
I mean, how many times do I have to reiterate that I don’t feel bad about my abortion, that I think it’s a necessary part of women’s reproductive health care, I don’t think it’s something women should feel ashamed about, I think it should be easily accessible, and safe, and that I think the pro-life movement is intensely anti-woman?
What more do you want me to answer? That should just about cover all of the stupid inconsequential things that you’re asking, regarding all the dumb stories about pro-life 4 year olds or yelling about not having a penis, or trying to give me ridiculous hypothetical situations.
The pro-choice movement will avail, and we will continue to protect the constitutional right of abortion. Keep on following Jill Stanek and her idiotic blog and live your life with your head in the sand.
Caitlin,
And no, you can’t be pre-something if you never reach that state. Prenatal refers to “pre birth” which you are, if you’re intending to carry the pregnancy to the state of birth.
You are a pre-teen if you reach the age of “teen,” but if you die at 10, you are a 10 year old, having never reached that state.
This is silly logic. You are stuck in the process of defining words by a hypothetical timeline instead of by the actual meaning/usage of the word. Take “premature”, for example. We know the definition of “premature” because we understand the meaning of its root, “mature”. Once the meaning of a word is established, we can use it descriptively, regardless of a hypothetical timeline; therefore, we can call a baby born today at 36 weeks “premature” even though he/she has not yet reached “maturity”.
We can call a 12 year old girl a “preteen” although she is twelve, not yet thirteen because we know the meaning of “teen”. We can call the baby in the womb “pre-born” although the baby is not yet born, because we have already defined “birth”.
A combining form or prefix denoting priority (of time, place, order,
degree, importance, or rank); as, precede, to go before; precursor, a
forerunner; prefix, to fix or place before; preeminent eminent before or
above others, pre-Christmas.
Pre- is sometimes used intensively, as in prepotent, very potent.
Alternative forms: prae-.
Compare: prior, pro-.
Origin: L. prae, adv. & prep., before, akin to pro, and to E. for,
prep.: cf. F. pre-.
(05 Feb 2009) you have to eventually reach the subject for it to qualify as “pre”
Caitlin says:
April 15, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Chris, it’s spelled “happiness” Carla, what are you talking about regarding spelling? Alice, I was referring to the hypothetical of whether doctors are offering genital mutilation to fetuses, which I oppose. It’s a nonsensical hypothetical set up to try to “trap” me into saying something contradictory. Of course I am in favor of fetal surgeries, I am also against fetal mutilation, and I am also pro-abortion.
Can you clarify your position? Are you pro-choice or pro-abortion?
I am Pro-Abortion for women that need, or want, an abortion. I am Pro-Choice in that I am supportive of every woman’s choice regarding her pregnancy.
“you have to eventually reach the subject for it to qualify as “pre””
I don’t see at all how this follows from your quote.
I would really like an answer to the following question: I currently do not have tenure. Everyone around my school keeps referring to those of us who don’t have tenure as pre-tenure. Assuming, as you say, that they are incorrect to do this, when can I refer to myself as pretenure? Is it when I get tenure? And when I am tenured, am I pretenured or am I pretenured NOW, but I can only say that I”m pretenured now when I’m tenured? I honestly do not know, on your view, who qualifies as pre-something and when you can properly use that term. Actually, that is a good question. Can you use the term pre-something in a sentence to clarify what kind of person qualifies as pre-whatever?
Caitlin, are you saying you’re against providing financial support for poor pregnant women? Last night I attended a fundraising dinner for a private pregnancy services center. Hundreds of people attended. What if all the money that people paid (both privately and via taxes) to promote and support abortion and abortionists was channeled into helping poor women with prenatal and postnatal care?
Since you apparently are concerned about poverty, what is your solution to helping poor pregnant women besides killing their preborn children? Or do you think (like PP’s founder, Margaret Sanger) that the way to eliminate poverty is to eliminate the poor?
or trying to give me ridiculous hypothetical situations
They are pretty ridiculous, I’ll give you that! But lots of ridiculous things happen – like FGM, for instance. If it didn’t already exist, who would ever entertain the possibility that it COULD?
So with that in mind, and given that hypothetical situations, however ridiculous, can help us clarify the logical processes we apply to less-ridiculous realities, would you be comfortable taking a shot at my question? I get that a woman should not be allowed to perform FGM on a daughter she is planning to carry to term, because that would mean that a baby would have mutilated genitals. But what if a woman wanted to perform FGM on her daughter prior to having her daughter aborted?
You would be able to classify yourself as pre-tunure if there was a guarantee of reaching the position of “tenured.” or, if not guaranteed, then after the fact.
Alice, I am extremely in support of the welfare system. I am also extremely against pregnancy centers, as they do not provide financial or societal support for women who can’t afford over the course of their lives to provide for a child.
I dont think that eliminating the poor will eliminate poverty. I think that women in poverty should have the right to comprehensive sexual education, access to a comprehensive range of contraception (including emergency contraception) and a full range of reproductive options. If a woman is poor and cannot afford a child, I think she should have access to abortion if that is the right decision for her. I would never say that abortion is a blanket solution to poverty, because it’s illogical and ridiculous.
You would be able to classify yourself as pre-tunure if there was a guarantee of reaching the position of “tenured.” or, if not guaranteed, then after the fact.
Alice, I am extremely in support of the welfare system. I am also extremely against pregnancy centers, as they do not provide financial or societal support for women who can’t afford over the course of their lives to provide for a child.
I dont think that eliminating the poor will eliminate poverty. I think that women in poverty should have the right to comprehensive sexual education, access to a comprehensive range of contraception (including emergency contraception) and a full range of reproductive options. If a woman is poor and cannot afford a child, I think she should have access to abortion if that is the right decision for her. I would never say that abortion is a blanket solution to poverty, because it’s illogical and ridiculous.
Caitlin, the word you were looking for is “prevail” not “avail.” And no, the pro-abortionists will not prevail.
A spider can’t help but spin its web. A bird can’t help but build its nest. No matter how many dictionaries you own or where you go to school, you can’t unhuman a human. Life will prevail because it simply will. We are placental mammals. We can’t help it and we can’t use science to become something else. Sure you can pay a greedy doctor to take a scalpel to any part of your body you please. You can, until it’s overturned, still even pay a stranger to kill your own child before he’s born. But that’s just using brute force to get what you want – you’re still a human being, a placental mammal with a certain number of chromosomes and an instinct to live.
“You would be able to classify yourself as pre-tunure if there was a guarantee of reaching the position of “tenured.” or, if not guaranteed, then after the fact.”
There is no guarantee. That is the whole purpose of the tenure system. Thus I am currently not pre-tenure. So I will know know if I was pre-tenure after I get it? So I may be pretenure right now, I may not be, and the only way I’ll know is whether or not I end up getting it?
Nah, I was looking to use “avail.”
“to be of use; have force or efficacy; serve; help.”
though you are right, it will also prevail.
I am also extremely against pregnancy centers, as they do not provide financial or societal support for women who can’t afford over the course of their lives to provide for a child
And there you have it folks, the point most trolls here get to sooner or later (in this case sooner): there is no choice in pro-choice, there is only abortion.
Those of us whose parents struggled while we were young and gained in prosperity as time went by, well we must have been living in some rare, magical atmosphere. Obviously, as Caitlin has so pointed out, once a person is poor, they ALWAYS REMAIN POOR, FOREVER. There is obviously no such thing as a temporary financial hardship. Yep.
You’re not making any sort of actual point, ninek.
There is definitely choice in pro-choice. I do not support the fact that crisis pregnancy centers remove the “choice” from the equation, and almost always coerce women into adoption, or convince them to keep the baby.
Don’t a lot of CPCs help women find jobs if they need to and better housing if they need that and generally try to help a woman who is pregnant get to a position where she will be stable “over the course of her life” and such like?
Yeah. Can’t have the pro-life movement doing that…
And such like? have you met miss teen south carolina?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dwwgoogl
If a Crisis Pregnancy Center offers help with jobs and education and affordable housing then then that center is most definitely the exception to the rule. Most CPCs do not offer anything like that.
@Caitlin: Given that you have been sticking like glue to pro-abortion talking points ever since you materialized on this site, and that you have gleefully declared ~47% of the United States to be “dumbest humans you’ve ever encountered” I’m sure it’s a safe assumption that you’ve never actually interacted with so much as one CPC in your life, let alone a sufficient number to start being accurate about exceptions vs. rules.
Kaitlin, Cailyn, Catelynn, Caitlin,
Well. Now you’ve done it. After reading all of your posts I have decided to change course. I am now proabortion! My daughter Aubrey DID NOT die in my abortion and well thank you for helping me see the light!
I am so relieved! Whew. What a weight off of my shoulders to learn that children don’t die in abortions! Her little body at 10 weeks along WAS NOT torn to pieces and suctioned out of my body!!
Happy Abortion to us!!
I have a group for us. It’s called Exhale. They have had happy abortions too.
I have actually!
As part of a bill that my workplace was writing to make CPCs more transparent, I worked as an actor, calling and visiting local Crisis Pregnancy Centers. I know quite a bit about them, would you like a lesson?
And there you have it folks, the point most trolls here get to sooner or later (in this case sooner): there is no choice in pro-choice, there is only abortion.
You’re right about that Ninek. It makes me very irritated to hear about supposedly “pro-choice” people oppose the CPCs. Isn’t the choice to have a child a valid one? We offer abortion ALTERNATIVES. Is that so difficult to understand?
No, CPC’s aren’t equipped to help women through the entire course of their lives, but what we do is give them a start and put them on that road — by helping them get apartments, or jobs, or whatever else they need. Did you ever hear of the Nuturing Network? It’s run by Mary Cunningham Agee, a professional woman who specializes in helping college students and professional women with unplanned pregnancies. http://www.nurturingnetwork.org/. Read some of the testimonies of the women she has assisted. I help support one of these agencies, and they recently sent me a copy of a letter from a woman they had helped. The woman has a beautiful daughter and is now a dentist.
I have a question — what happens if a family has some sort of unseen financial catastrophe and can’t support their children? This happened to me. My father lost his job when I was a young teenager and we lived in a house with no electricty, orunning water, or heat, and this was in western New York, where it gets very cold. It was terribly traumatic. I guess because my parents were poor and couldn’t support us, I guess it would have been okay to kill the four of us?
Congratulations Carla!
It’s Caitlin, by the way. Have you had your glasses checked recently? I am not here to tell you how to feel about your abortion, just as I abhor your decision to tell me how to feel about mine. Why don’t we learn from our differences in opinion, life experiences, etc etc and and go forth knowing that decisions, choices, pregnancies, and circumstances are different for every woman!?
I’m very skeptical of that claim, especially after all of the other rather wild statements you’ve been making.
Covering all of the bases with the spelling of your name. Caitlin.
I am part of Operation Outcry, Silent No More and Rachel’s Vineyard. Sorry to say that women that have had abortions and struggle for years afterward have many of the same experiences with drinking, drug abuse, nightmares, suicidal thoughts, depression etc.
I did learn from my experience with abortion. It is why I am here.
I haven’t told you how to feel about your abortion. You have told us. HAPPY!!!!! We get it.
Are you behind the bills targeting CPC’s?? They will not avail.
:)
Oh, and I am on the board of my local CPC. And several of us here volunteer for them. You are going to clue us in? Right.
I do not support the fact that crisis pregnancy centers remove the “choice” from the equation, and almost always coerce women into adoption, or convince them to keep the baby.
Well, since you were wrong about the mammograms, it shouldn’t be hard for you to grasp that you’re wrong about this, too.
Alice,
Without risking my job security to tell you the pro-choice political group that I work for, I can assure you 100% that I am telling the truth.
Oh, btw – if CPCs are dangerous and harmful to women as you said on another thread, then shall I assume you believe adoption and child rearing to be dangerous and harmful to women?
Sometimes adoption and child rearing are harmful to women. Not always. Women should have a full comprehensive, well informed, factual access to every choice available to them.
If a Crisis Pregnancy Center offers help with jobs and education and affordable housing then then that center is most definitely the exception to the rule. Most CPCs do not offer anything like that.
Wrong again.
“…pro-choice political group that I work..”
Wait, you work for a pro-choice political group and you aren’t at all familiar with the violinist analogy?
I’m sure it’s a safe assumption that you’ve never actually interacted with so much as one CPC in your life, let alone a sufficient number to start being accurate about exceptions vs. rules.
Nice, Alice. I’m guessing you’re correct.
The Baltimore bill was struck down as unconstitutional, Carla. Hopefully this will also happen in New York.
Like I said before, CPC’s offer ALTERNATIVES. If you look in the phone book, it says that these agencies do not refer or perform abortions. Are women so stupid that they can’t read the Yellow Pages?
Sometimes adoption and child rearing are harmful to women
About an hour ago at my agency one of my coworkers brought in a beautiful little 2 month old baby. His mother requested placement because she feels “overwhelmed.” They are looking for a temporary home for him now. I wished I could have taken him! The point I’m trying to make is — there is help available and people who care about women in these situations.
Caitlin,
PP of SE Iowa does not perform the mammograms. And they are not paying for them. The Iowa Dept of Public Health pays for them with grant money from the CDC. All PP does is give you a referral to a different provider who performs the mammogram. Nice try, though.
yeah, we dont really sit around talking about insane pro-life violinist analogies when there’s a legitimate attack on women in our house of representatives, and we have actual issues to address
Women should have a full comprehensive, well informed, factual access to every choice available to them.
CPCs provide everything but abortion access. PP is cornering the market on that one, though, so you don’t need to worry.
phillymiss,
I am hoping that is the case in NY as well!!
“we dont really sit around talking about insane pro-life violinist analogies”
It’s a pro-choice analogy, the most famous argument in favor of abortion that there is. This is very telling.
“I am also extremely against pregnancy centers, as they do not provide financial or societal support for women who can’t afford over the course of their lives to provide for a child…. crisis pregnancy centers remove the ‘choice’ from the equation, and almost always coerce women into adoption, or convince them to keep the baby.” So again, the alternative to financial need is to kill the child? And what is your evidence/proof that pregnancy centers ultimately abandon the women and children they supported during and immediately after the woman’s pregnancy? Some of the women I heard speak at the fundraiser last night had their babies more than a year or two ago and were still friends with and being supported in some way by the people at the pregnancy center who had helped them. Do abortion “clinics” maintain these sorts of relationships with women after they kill their children? Not in my experience (unless they recruit them to work in their clinics or into “pro-choice political jobs”). I have heard MANY, MANY women express regret over their abortions and talk about how they were coerced into abortion or offered no options, only abortion, but I have NEVER heard a woman say she regretted the help and support she received at a pregnancy center.
Caitlin, what if we’re right? What if the unborn are indeed unique human beings with dignity and worth?
What if you’re wrong? What if you really did kill your child when you swallowed that pill?
These are the questions that you refuse to ask yourself because you don’t want to face the answers. Yet you tell us that our heads are in the sand.
Thank you Alice PA!
Also, where are the support groups consisting of women who have been harmed by these e-vell CPC’s? How many women have died in them? Where is the CPC equivalent of “Dr.” Gosnell’s House of Horrors????
Lauren, great question! I heard this last night: If you were hunting in the woods and you saw movement ahead but you weren’t sure if it was a deer or your hunting friend who had headed off on his own, would you shoot? If you were driving down a road at night and saw something dark lying in the road and weren’t sure if it was an old coat or an old man in an old coat and you had time to stop rather than run over it/him, would you stop?
coerce women into adoption, or convince them to keep the baby.
Coercing women into keeping their babies? Wow, I didn’t realize all the CPC’s had cages to put the women in for the remaining months of their pregnancy. I’m sure they can’t let them head out the door and go get an abortion because well, that’s just not possible. So they must be locking them up in a basement. Yep, that must be it.
One thing I know for sure, there aren’t any women coerced into having an abortion that can walk out, change their mind, and decide to have the baby after all.
“Women should have a full comprehensive, well informed, factual access to every choice available to them.” And places like PP provide this?! That’s not what I’ve heard from so many women. That’s not what I heard 24 years ago when I got my abortion. As far as I know (and I’m sure Carla can verify this or correct me if I’m wrong), CPCs explain to clients exactly what an abortion is and does, as well as explaining to them the exact nature of the person who is growing in their womb. Now THAT is comprehensive, factual information about every choice available to them. If after that a woman still wants an abortion, she knows where to go. But maybe Carla can also speak to how many women do end up getting an abortion after being told the whole truth.
I guess Caitlin must be off the clock at her wonderful pro-choice political job.
What I want to know is: are they currently shooting? If so will her character be pregnant or will they hide it like Phylicia Rashad’s pregnancy was hidden on The Cosby Show?
Grocery bags on teh counter in front of her belly, cutting the hole in the bed… my goodness I love the Cosby show!
I can speak for our CPC. They explain fetal development in detail using fetal models and photos. The ultrasound speaks for itself. The person that does our ultrasounds spends time pointing out the hands, fingers, arms, legs, feet, head, face, cheek etc. There is no mistaking the humanity of the preborn child!!
I have read that 90% of women choose life after seeing the ultrasound.
Suppose I had my breasts enhanced, and didn’t feel one bit ashamed about it.
I don’t think my first thought would be to seek out a forum with people who are against breast enhancement surgery (they do exist, I’m sure), and make sure to let them know how delighted I was with my decision. I don’t think I would repeatedly come back to the forum day after day to convince them that I really, really was happy about my decision, and that they shouldn’t try to convince me otherwise.
Doing so would scream “guilty conscience!”, “guilty conscience!”.
Caitlin, your heart is telling you what you are desperate not to accept. That is why you come here, to convince yourself that you were right…not us.
Phillymiss 12:35pm
Anyway, this is Jill’s blog, but I don’t know why she choses to spotlight ardently pro-abortion actresses like Tina Fey.
I’m on the Quote of the Day crew, so I’m speaking for myself, not Jill.
Part of the reason to spotlight what pro-abortion people say is to note the irony and to start the conversation.
If a prochoicer like Tina Fey can come to certain conclusions about life that are basically prolife talking points, then it’s worth noting.
Another reason is that there may be visitors who come to our site that are abortion-vulnerable. Reading a life-affirming quote from a celebrity might, just might have an impact.
There’s a diversity of perspectives posted on Quote of the Day.
Judging by the 100+ comments on this thread, looks like we’re engaged.
Bobby Bambino,
Re: the violionist analogy, my guess is that Caitlin is either very young (like 13) or simply has not thought about/ researched this issue beyond bumper sticker slogans. There are some intellectual pro-choicers out there. I disagree with them strongly and think they are wrong, but at least one can have a debate with them. You (and others) have brought very good arguements to the table, but I believe they will simply continue to go over her head.
Bethany 4:29 – bingo.
Judging by the 100+ comments on this thread, looks like we’re engaged.
Yep! :D
Lol I am not 13, and I had never heard of the violinist analogy, and not knowing an analogy doesn’t change that I am still informed on the reality of the issue, nor does it change my job, which is a political pro-choice organization. Is this your “gotcha” moment? Good one.
Caitlin, we aren’t trying to have “gotcha” moments. We’re trying to get you to think critically about the issue.
Thank you, Bethany and Adair.
Carla, thank you too. I’m sure I’ve read on at least one CPC website that in addition to thoroughly educating the mother (and father and anyone else involved) about the developing child in her womb, they also explain to her exactly what an abortion does to that child. I am now inspired to do some research on that (online and through CPC contacts). I suspect that it would be awfully difficult to agree to an abortion after being given ALL the information. (I wish I’d been.)
I love this blog! It’s so provocative (in a good way) and the trolls who come here provide great opportunities to tell people (at least those who are willing to think for themselves) the truth right next to the lies. So grateful to all who make this possible–even the trolls!
Fixed my Freudian slip (child in her woman). :)
I mean, how many times do I have to reiterate that I don’t feel bad about my abortion, that I think it’s a necessary part of women’s reproductive health care, I don’t think it’s something women should feel ashamed about, I think it should be easily accessible, and safe, and that I think the pro-life movement is intensely anti-woman?What more do you want me to answer? That should just about cover all of the stupid inconsequential things that you’re asking, regarding all the dumb stories about pro-life 4 year olds or yelling about not having a penis, or trying to give me ridiculous hypothetical situations.
The pro-choice movement will avail, and we will continue to protect the constitutional right of abortion. Keep on following Jill Stanek and her idiotic blog and live your life with your head in the sand.
You said that pro-lifers were “generational” insinuating we are a bunch of old fogies. I am 30. I am not old. My son is 4. He is the next generation of people waiting to give you a headache as you jump through verbal and mental gymnastics to deny that your unborn baby was a human being and that you killed him. Thats why I bring him up.
I actually don’t hate women. I am a woman and I love being one. I love my femininity thats why I hate when people like you work to degrade a uniquely female characteristic such as gestating a new human being.
You want abortion to be safe? Then why do you guys fight tooth and nail against basic standards at abortion mills? There were two injured patients at PP this week and another clinic near Carla just had an injured patient. Cemetery of choice documents the long list of women who have died from “safe and legal” abortion. Never heard of a CPC killing a woman. Only you guys do that. But if you think we are “anti-woman” then I can safely assume on the flip side of that you are “anti-child”. Yes, I will assume that, thanks.
You’re against fetal mutilation but for abortion? If it weren’t so tragic I could laugh at your mindset. Um, have you watched an abortion? They MUTILATE the fetus. Thats what an abortion does. But remind us again how gentle yours was with the baby falling gently out of you along with your uterine lining. You starved your baby to death by blocking the baby’s ability to draw nourishment and then you bled and cramped profusely as your child’s remains and blood poured out of you. But you’re against fetal mutilation. Go you.
Gotcha moments anyone?
Caitlin comes on recently, pretends to be an ordinary post-abortive woman… who just so happens to have no regrets.. who uses all the bumper sticker phrases we’ve heard before…who then admits that she works for a pro-abortion political employer. Total troll if I ever saw one. And it’s not a coinky dink that our most “ardent” and “zealous” trolls ALL work in the abortion industry in one form or another, either as abortionists, escorts, lobbyists, etc. We don’t have any ordinary pro-choice folks trolling this blog; each and every last troll has revealed themsleves to be deeply invested in keeping the abortion industry busy killing children in the US and all over the world. They are invested both personally and professionally. Caitlin is so un-smart she didn’t even last a week before tipping her hand. Typical.
The pro-life movement is made up of people who voluntarily and with nothing personal to gain stand up for the natural lives of all humans and the dignity of humans that are small or disabled. I’m honored to be among you all.
Despite trolling you, everything I said was true, including the deployed husband, the abortion, my diabetes, my job, my total lack of regret etc etc. I hope you all see the light some day
Yes Caitlin. WE hate women. Who is displaying obvious misogyny here? You are calling us the c-word. A slur used against women. You are obviously a male abortionist.
Caitlin – thanks for the spelling fix on happiness.
About your misconceptions about pregnancy. You said @ 2:11pm:
A pregnancy, while containing the building blocks for a human life, is not a born, living, independent human. It is not a child.
– You did give birth, but your child wasn’t alive when you did. After that, you weren’t pregnant. But as said, that doesn’t make you a non-mother. You can’t “unring the bell”.
– Okay – a pregnancy is not merely a child. A pregnancy is a condition brought on by conception of a child, so a pregnancy is the full condition the mother finds herself in when “with child”. All 50 states have medical regulations regarding pregnancy, and every single one of them acknowledges there is a child present, (exceptions for hydatidiform moles).
– The human child within the mother is a living human being – dependent upon her mother for sustenance and protection. Medical texts confirm this. In fact, embryonic stem cell research wouldn’t be possible without creating an embryo – a living human being in the embryonic stage of life. Stages of development doesn’t change our humanity – a toddler is less developed than a teen, but is not any less valuable as a human being.
– Independence – your criteria is that independence bestows humanity and rights. You fail to acknowledge you live entirely dependent upon the grace and mercy of others. You rely fully on others for all your sustenance and protection – no different than the child you aborted – save your child was depending fully upon you – but you would have no part of that. More than likely for reasons other than the child’s presence. And abortion is not a passive act of omission – it’s a deliberate act of commission.
Medically – when you were pregnant, you were with child – you are (still) the mother of that child. And from the moment of conception on, that child is a human being with needs, just like every other human being.
Here’s some references below – look up your own – I challenge you to refute me medically.
—–
“Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zygtos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being.” [Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]
“the term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation and fertilization … The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.” (J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers, pages 17 and 23.)
“Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus.” (Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146
“every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition.” (E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant (3rd Edition). Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii.)
“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun…. The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.” [Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]
——
Your language about what constitutes a “child” is disingenuous word games. If you want to rationalize your abortion, then simply admit you killed your child for financial reasons or perhaps relationship reasons, and that you’re okay for doing so.
But don’t tell us killing innocent human beings is about “reproductive rights”.
We’re all completely done with such insane statements.
Lol I am not, I am a woman, and have been for 25 years. I still think that women who restrict other women’s rights are the worst kind of people, and are definitely anti-woman.
Caitlin, I think women who kill other women who haven’t been born yet are anti-woman. But I won’t call you the c-word. Don’t worry. ;-)
See the light? Killing very tiny humans is seeing the light? That ain’t light, honey. You clearly don’t understand the pro-life position at all. You’re not here to dialog, you’re here as part of your job. Since you won’t be able to convince any of us to abandon our fight for the lives of humans large and small, I’d say your employer is going to consider this little outing of yours a big fat FAIL. I hope they set you up, because if this trollscapade was your idea, you’ve got egg on your face the size of an allosaurus’.
Caitlin – stop throwing repulsive slurs at other commenters.
No one needs such behavior.
Caitlin, guess what? Your little c-word rant just got you banned. Buh bye.
Hahahahaha omg please don’t flatter yourself, this site is small potatoes, no employer would pay someone to troll it. I’m just on here to try and understand the bizarre pro-life agenda
No, I think i’ll stick to what I know… that my son’s penis never did and does not now belong to me and that showing my son pictures of himself in my womb made him naturally pro-life because he is obviously a lot brighter than you’ll ever be Caitlin. I know this is such a heady concept… life begins IN THE WOMB but my 4 year old grasps it readily. Someday I hope you too will understand basic biology but I won’t hold my breath. Bye bye now.
“I’m just on here to try and understand the bizarre pro-life agenda.”
Pahahahahahaha! Biggest lie ever, now I will go back to NOT feeding the troll!
“Despite trolling you, everything I said was true”
I disagree. PP does not provide mammograms nor do they pay for them despite your link trying to appear otherwise. The Iowa Dept of Public Health pays for them with grant money from the CDC. And PP just sends them somewhere else that actually does mammograms instead of claiming that they do when they do not.
And you may think you sound intelligent, but the truth is you sound angry and ugly which is typical for pro-aborts.
Trying to understand? No, by the number of comments posted here recently, she was trying to argue. To understand, she’d have had to actually think about what people have said and, well, understand. Since she just came back with all the same old bumper stickers and slogans we’ve heard before, I think it’s safe to assume that she’s trying to impress her employer with her trolling skills. I wonder how convincing she was as an “actress” going into CPC’s? ‘Not very’ would be my guess since she couldn’t even keep up the charade on this blog.
Still, I do feel genuinely bad for post-abortive women who have so far to go in the healing process. Myself, I used to have very frequent nightmares, even after becoming actively pro-life. But in the last calendar year, I’ve only had two! That’s amazing progress. God gives us a little slice of heaven now and then. I know now that if this is healing, then heaven’s going to be… heaven!!
For anyone curious, what turned the corner for me? Even though I felt bad about the abortion, it was for many years a selfish guilt. Last year I finally stopped the rationalizing and backpedalling and realized, then acknowledged: my child might have been a better person than I. It would have been better to sacrifice my life for my child, not the other way around.
You know, the way I see it (or them, as in trolls) at this point is that it doesn’t matter if they’re 25-year-old political pawns or “little brothers”–the script is the script and, in this context, simply provides an opportunity to respond with the life-affirming truth. The hope and goal for all of us who are pro-life should be, I think, to save lives and to protect and help heal anyone who is listening in who is considering abortion or is already suffering the consequences. If somewhere down the road one of these trolls’ lives is turned around by something one of us says here, then that’s a bonus, but they don’t come here to learn and their armor is heavy duty. We also need to pray for them and for those who are vulnerable to their dangerous rhetoric. And to do as much as we can beyond this blog to help save and heal lives.
A woman brought her husband to the family physician.
The husband was convinced he was dead.
The wife asked the doctor to talk some sense into her husband.
The doc says to the husband, “Do dead men bleed?”
The husband says, “Of course not!’
The doc jabs the husband in end of one of his fingers and blood flows freely.
The doc asks the husband, “What do say now?”
The husband exclaims, ” Oh my God! I was wrong. Dead men do bleed!”
[Caitlin convinced against her will is of the same opinon still. Caitlin will not be persuaded even if a dead man were raised from the grave. At least not yet.]
If one chooses to reject logic, reason and truth and at the same time chooses to reject faith in GOD, then how does she even reconcile her check book?
Maybe she just trusts the bank and it’s computers to be infallible.
Caitlin,
Having met and helped many women and men find hope and healing from past abortion(s) this is what I can say I know for sure, we are never the same person from yesterday as we are today as we will be tomorrow. Only time will tell for you whether you will come to regret your abortion, that could be next week, 20 years from now or never. I have met so many women who believed as you do and yet today they have come through pretty intense self realizations that they lived in denial because they had to in order to hold up that invisable anvil above their head. Life happens and yours is not done yet. If you ever find yourself feeling the weight of an anvil you know now you don’t have to hold it up, there are places you can go and be safe to talk about it as a woman who does regret aborting her child.
By the way there are countless stories of women and men making death bed confessions of having an abortion.
Hi Caitlin,
I can’t speak for every CPC/PRC, but I can tell you about mine.
The Pregnancy Resource Centers that I run do not offer a single service to a fetus. (I don’t know of a PRC/CPC anywhere that has the technology to offer a service to a fetus, unless you’re counting ultrasound or pre-natal vitamins, which are technically, for the mother, though they may benefit the fetus.)
All of our services are for adults or born children.
We do acknowledge that all of the adults we help are, or have been, pregnant with a fetus, and all of our clients, adult and child, were once a fetus. However, we don’t counsel, feed, support, accomodate, clothe, encourage or equip any fetuses. We support their mothers, so that they can feed, support, accomodate and protect their fetuses themselves.
Once babies are born, we can help with the feed, clothe and accommodate part, though mostly, we’re helping empower, educate and resource mothers so that they can care for their child themselves. In most circumstances, we ask that our clients “earn” the items they need for their child by working towards bettering their overall circumstances. We believe in giving a hand-up, not just a hand-out.
All of our services are free, and are received by the client completely voluntarily. We don’t have a secret basement vault where we stash the women who decide to have an abortion. They simply walk out the same door they walked in, with reassurances that we’re still here for them, no matter what. Many return again and again after their abortion/s for additional services. Some are back within days, weeping and asking for post-abortion counselling, saying everything we warned them of and much worse has been their experience.
We don’t claim that every woman will suffer from post-abortion trauma. We also do not exaggerate medical or psychological risk of abortion and are very careful to offer the evidence that our claims are based upon. However, I am very much aware that any discussion about abortion that doesn’t include the words “gently remove your pregnancy,” “completely safe,” “no long-term effects” etc or that includes the development of the fetus and a free ultrasound will always be considered biased by some.
Our services have no expiration date. We have clients who we have been helping for over 20 years, some of whom are now grandparents. Some of our clients from years past now volunteer with us. The most common way a client finds us is because we helped her friend.
If I had a dollar for every time someone like you has accused us of not caring for women or babies after the birth, we’d have a lot more money to increase our services to women and families. :o)
When you say that we don’t help women in the long term, what you mean is that we don’t help women YOUR WAY. Sorry, but we’d much rather offer women love than death. I’ve never met a client who has regretted her decision not to abort. I also don’t have a complaints department, not even a complaints file. Just thousands of happy women, and thousands of living, breathing, smiling kids. That’s all I need to know we’re doing the right thing.
“. I still think that women who restrict other women’s rights are the worst kind of people, and are definitely anti-woman.”
Yeah, just like those women who restrict other women’s right to life! Oh…wait.
Amen Michelle! Thank you for all you do!
Thank you, Michelle!!! For taking the time to write and post that and for helping so many women, children, and families.
Carder, I didn’t meant to sound nasty about the Tina Fey post. It’s just that I work at an agency where about 99 percent of my coworkers and administrators are pro-abortion, and that has close ties with PP. I just get sick of hearing all their rhetoric all the time, which is why I rarely watch TV or go to movies — I don’t want to support pro-abort actors.
I mentioned that a baby was brought in that had to be placed, a beautiful 2 month old baby. Everyone was oohing and aahing over him, and I felt like saying “well, a few months ago you would have thought it was okay to kill him.” But sometimes you just have to choose your battles.
Caitlin, if you’re still here, I think the worst kind of person is someone like Dr. Gosnell, who makes money off the blood of desperate women and innocent babies (yes, BABIES, not BLOBS).
Michelle beautifully said! I WISH I had known and gone to a Center for Life in 1983 because my child, by the grace of God would be a grown man with his own life to live; the fruits of that life will never, never be known on this earth, in this world.
Not having living children is my biggest heartache, but even bigger is I will never, never have a grandchild(ren) to spoil and send back to his/her parents. I will never have a living legacey, never have stories of me being told at family gatherings by my own flesh and blood. I know I would have made a good mom.
Had I known there was a Center for Life just a few miles away, by the grace of God I would not be here writing this. I would not be here because I would have a different life, the good and the bad of it. Today by the grace of God and His mercy I have a good life, but not without having to go through the most incredible pain to get here.
Many, many women who abort their first child never have and it’s not by choice.
“Many, many women who abort their first child never have [another] and it’s not by choice.” Thank you, Ann Marie. Not by choice indeed. For me too. Hugs to you.
HUGS to you Ann Marie. Thank you for sharing your heart. Your story is heartbreaking. I empathize because while I have one son I know what it is to long for more children and have that denied (for various reasons). So your post touched my heart incredibly. But you WILL have a living legacy in the lives of the children your testimony has saved and will save. You still have an impact on future generations. But I know that special ache in a woman’s heart to hold her baby.
I am thankful God takes our mistakes, whatever they may be, and uses them to accomplish good though Satan intended them for evil.
My love to you, AnnMarie!!
You have hit the nail on the head, Sydney! AnnMarie is the founder of Silent No More MN and made her voice heard before I ever found mine. I have had the privilege of speaking with her and praying in front of Planned Parenthood.
AnnMarie,
You led the way for women like me and patiently waited until we found the strength to step out into the light.
God bless you, sister! You have no idea how many children are alive today because of your courage!
50% of abortions end a little baby girl’s life. If anything is anti woman, THAT IS!
Ann Marie – thank you for courageously sharing your pain. I pray that when Jesus welcomes you into His arms, that your joy will be overflowing, and through God’s abundant mercy you’ll be able to embrace your child in His presence. I know why God has a heart for orphans – because, like Him, they too were abandoned by circumstances or sin.
May God amplify your voice, and through your testimony, may He be glorified by bringing His lost children to repentance and restoration.
Alice PA thanks for adding “another” my brian thought it but my fingers didn’t type it. LOL
Glad I guessed right, Ann! Thanks again, so much, for what you wrote.
Ok I have a brother named Brian and sometimes I think with my brain…not today however which is really to bad since I am doing my taxes! Opps maybe I should have taken them to a specialist. First year trying this on my own. God help me and send me your prayers as it looks I am going to need them if this malfunction keeps up.
My least favorite (and highest anxiety) time of year too (self-employed), Ann Marie! The Lord be with you and grant you peace, focus, and perseverance. [At least the IRS asks only for numbers, not words. :) ]
A consistant message I’ve been reading/hearing from pro-deathers is that its better to be dead than poor and its “merciful” to kill a child. These people are hopeless hypocrites ranting “choice”. They assume the child doesn’t want to live and grow up to make their own choices of rising above and overcoming challenges. So they rob them of their choice. Anyone who could be happy or proud of ending a human life is a sociopath.
Caitlin may have left this thread, recharging for another round of illogical thought, waiting for another post, but here goes anyway. Better late than never.
Caitlin – you say a human being before birth is not a child, yet you offer no proof of this, you only offer an opinion. If you think that aborting a female is not anti-woman, then you may be beyond hope, at least for now. No one can force you to think logically. No one can force you to accept rock solid, unassailable logical arguments either. You can choose to believe and think anything you want. When your arguments are shown to be without a consistent logical basis, you are not even required to change your mind. But your refusal to do so does not make you right. There are other bodily autonomy examples that directly effect a woman’s well being whether she is pregnant or not that can test your conviction that it is her autonomy that is paramount regarding abortion. My guess is that you would only argue for bodily autonomy when it involves abortion and not across the board. Your argument then crumbles. You really don’t support autonomy, only abortion. Does a woman, let’s say your mother, sister, future daughter, or best friend, have the individual right to commit suicide? How about a friend starting on a path of drug addiction? Do you support this? Does a woman have the right to cut off her own arms and/or legs? How about just her hands and/or feet? Does a pregnant woman who is not seeking an abortion have the right to consume as much thalidomide as she possibly can while she is pregnant?
There are logical arguments that blow away any and all of your opinionated hypotheses, but making you aware of them will probably not change your mind, not just yet anyway. That’s too bad because you delude yourself. For all I know, you may have watched the following Scott Klusendorf videos and are unimpressed, but I offer them to you just in case you have not seen them. The videos expose the inconsistencies and arbitrary nature of pro abort thinking. There are no justifications for abortion that withstand logical scrutiny. All you are really basing your support of abortion on is your own sad notion that human life is not worth protecting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnDooyEvaRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt7GAhbxfHY&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qot0zsqqoJ8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9jSTvdipk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjZmkNqLvNA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIm3g4ynA0c&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTuB1FFSdog&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlvq5XJTfxk&feature=relmfu
Jim you’re right- they do not think human life is worth protecting. If they did they’d see the dignity and worth in each human being.
Caitlin, if you’re still reading:
If you think the pro-choice position will easily prevail and we’re all being futile and wasting our time, why bother with us? When I have something I believe in and I don’t believe groups opposed to it are making any headway, I just ignore them because addressing them is pretty pointless. For example, I don’t believe polygamy should be legalized, but I don’t seek out pro-polygamy websites and argue with them because I don’t think they’re really managing to change anything. You know pro-choicers aren’t as guaranteed to prevail as you think. That’s why you work for a pro-choie organization in the first place, isn’t it?
People here might have various degrees of irritation and frustration with you, but the fact that you disagree with them doesn’t mean they don’t care about you as a fellow human being.
Maybe I am missing something here but where is the news???
AAB, the quote is intended to provoke discussion.
MY BODY MY CHOICE MY BODY MY CHOICE MY BODY MY CHOICE
O wow LMP. How insightful! Well thats it, this “new” argument has now completely changed my mind. I am totally pro-baby dismemberment now! Thank you LMP. Without your refreshing wisdom I would have been so lost on this issue.
LMP’s rant makes me think of a child who doesn’t want to hear some truth her mother is saying so she closes her eyes, covers her ears, and yells over and over again, “No, no, no, no, no, no,” or some nonsense syllable. We’ve all probably done that at some point in our lives. It’s a way to pretend we can’t hear the truth, but we really can and we just don’t want to accept it. We’re also yelling because we’re mad as hell that it IS true.
http://heleapt.blogspot.com/2011/04/how-will-you-believe-if-i-tell-you.html
Alice – that linked blog post of yours is fantastic. Thanks!
Thank YOU, Bryan!