The culture of me
We convince ourselves that they simply don’t realize what they’re doing. If only they could see – and honestly look at – the ultrasound pictures of an unborn child. If only we could convince them that what they consider a “clump of cells” is a person.
If only they knew it was a human life they were destroying. If they only knew, they wouldn’t – they couldn’t – continue to support abortion.
But they do know. And the abortions continue. Not because we live in a culture of death but because we live in a culture of me….
Pangs of conscience are, of course, a natural reaction to the taking of an innocent life. But while the Culture of Me can accept an unborn child being ripped from the womb, having hurt feelings about such actions is unacceptable.
~Joe Carter, First Things, April 13
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This is chilling. And it breaks my heart.
“Culture of me”? Just what do you think capitalist economies are built on? I wonder how anyone can pretend to reconcile the inherent tension between social conservative pet projects which are entirely centered around restricting individual freedoms for some ostensible higher religious or moral purpose, and the radical individualism and materialism of fiscal conservatism. Obviously the values that underpin both of these ideologies are at odds with one another, and when it comes time to translate values into policies, something has to give. Congressional Republicans, in order to have something to point to as a much-needed victory of fiscal conservatism, were quite willing to dump the social conservative project du jour–defunding Planned Parenthood–and cut a deal with the Democrats. You can’t serve two masters, after all.
This is very sad & true. I still can’t understand how someone can know that it’s a human life and still go through with abortion OR continue to support abortion as a right.
The culture of me is at the heart of so many social problems. It comes hand-in-hand with the culture of “I can’t possibly impose my beliefs on anymore” because the culture of me is so instrinsically relativistic that there is no room for real Truth. And without Truth, Good and Beauty are tossed out as well.
me me me….I don’t want to gain weight! I don’t want to give up a concert! (a real reason given for an abortion, NOT a life threatening situation) I don’t want to actually care about someone else besides myself!
That’s what the society of ME means.
Joan, once again, not all prolifers are conservative and/or Republican.
I don’t see how women can have abortions after they know about fetal development, especially when you can fill the baby move inside you. But many do. It’s not pc to say so, but there is often a great deal of selfishness involved in this issue. Mother Theresa was right — it is a terrible poverty to abort a child so you may live as you wish.
Well, joan, I always thought that Democrats were the party of supporting the little people and crusading for the rights of the defenseless. The party of ocmpasion. Only not so much when it comes to the unborn, huh?
I am saying this as someone whose sympathies actually lie with the old Democratic platform. But I will never vote for any Democrat who supports abortion. My parents were lifelong Democrats who switched to voting Republican after Roe v. Wade. If the Democrats keep up their slide into moral bankruptcy they will soon have no members left as the country turns prolife.
Joan said: You can’t serve two masters, after all.
So joan – who are you serving?
I had an abortion in order to give my family and my future children a good life. It had nothing to do with a culture of “me” and everything to do with wanting to give my family a good life when the time was right
How was the child you aborted NOT a family member, and a child?
SHOW THEM THE ULTRASOUND!!! SHOW THEM THE TRUTH!!!
Caitlin,
You are presuming you will have future children and a good life.
Caitlin, so, you aborted your child because you didn’t want to be a mom. That has EVERYTHING to do with the culture of “ME.” I became pregnant with my daughter ten years ago, when I had nothing and no money and had lost a lot of support. But the minute I saw her heart flickering like a light on the ultrasound (she was only 8 weeks along, by the by), I loved her and wanted to protect her. Was it ideal? NOPE. Is everything perfect? NOPE. Life isn’t perfect. We are not entitled to say when and how we have our children. We have NO RIGHT to kill them, never. My daughter’s right to live trumped my right to …whatever it is people think I needed at the time. What I needed was to face reality and love my child. Now I have a little girl who bakes cookies with me and sneaks chocolate chips when she thinks I’m not looking and throws her arms around my neck and says “I love you.” So what if I’m poor. So what if I am a struggling musician. So what if my life isn’t even remotely close to what I envisioned. My daughter is the most beautiful thing that happened to me, and I had every “reason” in the world to abort her. It’s not about choice; it’s about LIFE. It’s about doing what ought to be done. Killing your child ought NEVER to be done, there is no reason, beyond “ME ME ME.”
As for “health reasons,” please, spare me. My sister-in-law is the sickliest thing in the WORLD, and she’s having her baby with minimal complications. Because she is doing what she needs to do. She has diabetes, and Crohn’s. She’s fine. Baby is fine. Everything is fine. Sometimes things are not fine, and doctors should try to help BOTH mommy AND baby. The truth is, women abort because they just don’t “feel ready” to be mommies. Well, that sounds very “Culture of Me,” doesn’t it?
I had an abortion in order to give my family and my future children a good life.
How exactly does killing one child ensure a good future for a (child)ren that may never exist?
Do you know how to make God laugh Caitlin? Tell him your plans.
Joan is right. Capitalism can be about “me”: “I want a good thing (standard of living), and someone (I) must sacrifice (work hard) to obtain it for me.” However, socialism can also be about “me”: “I want a good thing (standard of living), and someone (not me) must sacrifice (work hard) to obtain it for me.” Abortion tends to fall under the socialism view: “I want a good thing (sexual pleasure with no resulting baby), and someone (unborn child) must sacrifice (die) to obtain it for me.”
This article hits the nail on the head. Even when the mother isn’t conscious of being self-centered, there is still a great deal of self-centered-ness surrounding the decision to abort: the grandparents don’t want to be inconvenienced or embarrassed that their child is having a child, the boyfriend or husband doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by a pregnant woman or the responsibilities of the child, roommates don’t want a baby in the apartment, bosses don’t want you to take maternity leave or be absent for doctors’ appointments, and the list goes on.
Then there’s post abortive syndrome, which is often a period of self-absorbed and self-destructive behavior.
I am still a registered Democrat but I never would have predicted, if you’d asked me two decades ago, that it would become the party of ‘Abortion uber alles.’ I don’t think we’ll solve our social problems through politics alone, because ironically most politicians are self-centered! Planned Parenthood used our own tax money in part to kill American children, and in part to donate to a presidential campaign that not all taxpayers supported. Obama may have won, but he didn’t get 100% of the vote. However, the money being siphoned off to Planned Parenthood IS coming from 100% of the US taxpayers. And that’s not even counting all the taxpayer money going to other abortionists, nor the state and county money going to abortionists. It’s a huge mess.
My child deserved better than that and all the gushy, self-indulgent words on a pink heart won’t bring her back to life. Women and children deserve life not death.
MaryLee,
Beautifully said. The Pro-Choice/Pro-Abort Movement is anti-women! It is the Culture of Me, the Culture of Death, and the Culture of Lies.
UGH! I am just watching the news and they are giving condoms to kids age 11 in Philly schools! ELEVEN! The liberals are crooning in bliss. If kids were injecting heroin would we give them clean needles? Or get them HELP and set STANDARDS and RULES to keep them safe? And what 11 yo is alone with a member of the opposite sex to even DO IT? My dad died when I was 3 so my mom had to work but I was never in a place unsupervised to even consider canoodling with boys. This has nothing to do with this thread but I just heard it on TV and it irked me.
Sydney, all those liberals that are “crooning in bliss” probably send their kids to expensive private schools.
Caitlin,
With the right support and resources, a woman can give herself and her child(ren) their basic needs and to have a good life. Women and children don’t need a big corporate job, a fancy degree, a house in the suburbs, lots of money, or toys to have a happy life. Sure we want all these things and it’s good to strive for these, but we also need to be realistic with ourselves whether we’re going to reach these goals or if we should instead focus on working with and bettering what we have. Now those are some examples of what we want. What women and children need is safe and adequite housing, a high school education or GED, stable income, and a stable and loving family dynamics. Someone once told me that if you wait until the right time or when you have enough money, it may never come, as life sometimes throws us curveballs (such as my having recently lost my job) and it’s how we cope and deal with such challenges which shows our true character and help us to become a better person.
Sydney,
They must be forgetting that the age of consent in PA is 16. Hmmm.
“Joan, once again, not all prolifers are conservative and/or Republican.”
The vast majority certainly are. For them, the tension between their ideology and the other main ideology that informs the platform of the Republican Party should give them pause, but deep thinkers seem to be in short supply among socially conservative Republican voters. Maybe it just never dawned on them that Ayn Rand-quoting fiscal conservatives really don’t have much use for them beyond their donations, votes, and other material support.
Caitlin,
to paraphrase Mother Teresa, it is great poverty indeed that a child had to die so that you could live as you wish.
If/when you give birth to children some day, will their lives also be disposable if it turns out that you don’t have the “good life” you wanted?
the tension between their ideology and the other main ideology that informs the platform of the Republican Party should give them pause, but deep thinkers seem to be in short supply among Republican voters.
Funny, I’d say the same about Democrats, given how grossly uninformed most of them seem to be about the basic facts of embryology and fetal development.
I dislike the Republican party, but occasionally vote Republican to limit the evil of the other, pro-abortion candidate. I can’t vote for the Dems due to their pro-abortion stance. Some Independent candidates are good, but most often they’re not viable in whatever race in which they’re running.
I feel politically homeless.
“Funny, I’d say the same about Democrats, given how grossly uninformed most of them seem to be about the basic facts of embryology and fetal development.”
I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Democratic voters who are pro-choice can rest comfortably that their elected officials, in most cases, are going to reasonably defend abortion rights, because that is compatible with the other policies of the Democratic Party platform. Socially conservative Republican voters can’t rely on their elected officials to show the same fidelity to their social positions because those positions are in direct conflict with other, major parts of the GOP platform. Hence, my suggestion that they are not deep thinkers: they are unable to appreciate the fact that they are, and have been for many years, on the losing side of a tug-of-war over the priorities of the party that they faithfully show absolute loyalty to.
Joan, the vast majority may be reps/cons but the point is not all of them are. At the end of the day pro-lifers all use the same arguments more or less so being republican or Cons doesn’t take away the validity of what they say. There’s a difference between being conservative about government policies and conservative about human lives.
Your comments have brought up something I have been wondering about. Why is being pro-life so unpopular with liberals anyway? Isn’t that a more liberal view? What’s great about Liberalism is that at it’s core, it’s about liberty and equality for everyone. It’s about protecting the litttle guy but when it comes to abortion, you’re literally killing the little guy. Liberals love to talk about standing for women’s rights but in this case they do it by stepping over another group’s rights. This is not equality, you can’t say you care about liberty and have such a disregard for the value of life. The conflict between these two ideologies should give liberals a pause.
They make the abortion issue all about women when it also affects the unborn, fathers and society as a whole to be quite honest. Pro-lifers, whether Cons, reps, dems or libs, believe we can love them both, the women and the unborn. We don’t have to value one group of humans over another. Ironically it’s the conservatives that are more liberal in this case.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything.
Well, let me put it this way. If a political candidate shows that s/he is too dense to understand basic facts about embryology, fetal development, and the nature of human life, or is keeping him/herself deliberately ignorant about same, I don’t trust him/her about anything else. I wouldn’t vote for a literal creationist candidate, either, or one that was a member of the Flat Earth Society.
Hence, my suggestion that they are not deep thinkers: they are unable to appreciate the fact that they are, and have been for many years, on the losing side of a tug-of-war over the priorities of the party that they faithfully show absolute loyalty to.
Oh, believe me, I know this — as do most of the other Catholic conservatives I know (note: conservative does not = Republican). I have no loyalty at all to the Republican party. I did not vote for GWB in either election because of the Iraq war issue. The GOP stance on torture also makes me sick and is in violation of my ethical principles.
Just to comment: Last Friday I was at our local PP, when a young man who brought in his girlfriend into PP for an abortion, motioned to our request to come over for help and info, that he would see us in a minute.
Over the next two hours, he proceeded to come in and out of the clinic – with no intention to come over. At one point he started mocking us, motioning us to come onto the property to talk with him (which he knew we could not do unless we wanted to get arrested). We ended up telling him that we would love to talk with him, that we offer hope and help to families and we wanted him to come over.
He yelled out “I’m not here for you, I’m here for ME!”
No truer words were ever said.
It is all about Me,Me, Me when it comes to abortion – whether it’s the boyfriend who does not want to be saddled with adult responsibility for his child(ren), or the parents who are embarrassed about their underage pregnant daughter, or the woman who realizes that the guy she slept with was a bum, or the University who does not want to deal with special accommodations to pregnant students or students who have a family, or the family ashamed to have a baby of another race, or the woman who slept with another guy without wanting her boyfriend/husband/family to know she did, the student who just wanted to ‘run track’ or the woman whose husband/boyfriend would take the other children away if she had that baby, or the father who would through the daughter out into the street if she did not get in the clinic to have that abortion. How about the one where a professional electrician – working on the major expansion of PP, actually said ‘I have to put aside my Christian beliefs to have work – I do it all the time’ while claiming to be a good Christian….
The list could go on and on. These are all factual scenarios of some of the reasons why people support abortion.
‘I’m not here for you – I’m here for ME!’ For sure.
A culture of me? That’d be the one that cuts aid to the poor while keeping tax cuts for the rich. Huge bonuses for the ‘bankers’ while more homes are foreclosed.
What are you saying joy? That the young man’s girlfriend should have a baby for you?
Maybe it just never dawned on them that Ayn Rand-quoting fiscal conservatives really don’t have much use for them beyond their donations, votes, and other material support.
Perhaps it’s no coincidence that Congressman Paul Ryan’s favorite book is Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged and he requires all of his staffers to read it, the work of a self-admitted radical atheist.
The only thing Ayn Rand worshiped was money. She wore the $ sign on her cape and a 6-foot-tall $-shaped floral wreath adorned her casket when she died.
Reality, at risk of speaking of Joy, I would think it is obvious that the young man’s girlfriend should have the baby not for Joy but for the baby of course.
Joy, what a terrible story! While his child is being murdered and his woman maimed, he prances about making gestures and mocking people. Nice. This aptly describes “an anguishing decision between a family and their doctor.”
Abortion hasn’t empowered women. It’s made a lot of males into obnoxious, overgrown children.
“and his woman maimed” – was she? Do you have evidence of that or is it just your usual attempt at creating a false image of armageddon?
Reality: A culture of me? That’d be the one that cuts aid to the poor while keeping tax cuts for the rich. Huge bonuses for the ‘bankers’ while more homes are foreclosed.
Joan:Maybe it just never dawned on them that Ayn Rand-quoting fiscal conservatives really don’t have much use for them beyond their donations, votes, and other material support.
Reality: I think you are noting the same thing that Joan is: that the Republican party is not as deeply pro-life as it should be. That hardly makes pro-lifers hypocritical. It makes OUR point not yours: to be pro-life is to NOT be all about ME.
Hey Reality – we see it all the time – the men bring in their women to get rid of the problem. Most of the time what they say to us – about her and the situation – the guy usually has no guts to tell to his lady. We have even had men tell us ‘I didn’t like her anyway!’ – but he liked her well enough to bed her. We even had another guy eye-ing a small car in the parking lot. She never saw, as he was behind her going into the clinic. His treasure was not his child, not his lady – but he was pining for the little neon in the parking lot.
Oh – if the women could see what we do. We’ve even heard of men planning to dump their girlfriends after their abortions. We did have a man threaten to leave the woman there at the clinic if she did not get in there (and they drove over 2 hours to get to the clinic). When she would not stop talking to me is when he threatened to throw them out of the house and make them homeless. unfortunately, I was new to the counseling situation at that time. I should have called the police.
Men frequently use women for sex, and then mess with them again with the abortion. It is heartbreaking, for sure. If the women only knew.
On the flip side, we have had valiant men, suddenly aware of what is about to happen, decide to step up and ‘man-up.’ Those men are great – and some even have their women not get an abortion because they were finally man enough to take care of their families. At least we see that happen. Praise God.
I’m kind of disappointed in this article actually, because it doesn’t connect the dots as clearly as it should. It is the toxic selfishness that we promote in our culture (the so-called “Culture of Me”) that leads to the Culture of Death. When all you care about is yourself, anyone else’s life is utterly disposable. We shouldn’t differentiate between a Culture of Death and a Culture of Me. They are exactly the same thing.
I’m not sure that capitalism is really relevant here. Capitalism can certainly contribute to a culture of me, but so too can socialism when people get the idea that they are somehow entitled to a certain level of “fruits of their labor” so to speak. Both systems are merely reflections of the society in which they operate and in this case it most certainly is a self-centered one.
There is no inherent inconsistency between fiscal conservativism and a pro-life position. Absolutely they compete for primacy in any political circumstance, but that’s true of all policy positions. The president has retreated on a lot of his positions in order to get other things pushed through. That’s politics – you need more to show that the two positions are actually inconsistent rather than just competitive.
“the Republican party is not as deeply pro-life as it should be” – because while they make a show of pandering to the vocal anti-choice elements, they know it’s not a vote winner.
Perhaps we’re asking the wrong question. When a female is pregnant, her body swells and swells and swells. She is often sick and in pain during much of the pregnancy. When she gives birth she may be in agony for days as she writhes and screams in agony. She will be physically scarred by the pregnancy carried to term and risks her life in doing so.
Yet even with contraception, sterilization, and — yes, abortion — available — females continue to VOLUNTARILY carry pregnancies to term and give birth! Selfishness on the part of human females would mean NO births — yet the MAJORITY of pregnancies are carried to term!
Moreover, pregnancy involves the most intimate use of one’s body but is also a very public condition. Her belly advertises that she is pregnant as she waddles through the day.
WHY do so many females voluntarily carry to term and give birth?
Denise Noe,
Um. Without pregnancy and childbirth we would bcome extinct. Duh. Call your mother and thank her.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? Are you prolife??
Pregnancy has been the most AMAZING months of my life and it has been my joy to carry four babies and give birth!!
Way to offend pregnant mothers! GO YOU!
PS I find your thoughts on adoptive children becoming serial killers and putting ALL little girls on the pill in case they get raped completely WARPED!! WARPED!!
The word troll comes to mind.
Carla says:
April 15, 2011 at 8:41 am
Denise Noe,
Um. Without pregnancy and childbirth we would bcome extinct. >>
(Denise) Exactly. And yet we have not become extinct — even when it is possible for females to avoid pregnancy or at least avoid carrying to term. Why is it that human females will — without being forced to — make this awesome sacrifice?
Duh. Call your mother and thank her.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? Are you prolife??
Pregnancy has been the most AMAZING months of my life and it has been my joy to carry four babies and give birth!!
Way to offend pregnant mothers! GO YOU!>>
(Denise) I’m not insulting females for carrying to term. I’m complimenting them on their sacrifices — all the more amazing when this sacrifice is undertaken voluntarily. Again, we keep asking why females abort. That’s the wrong question. The question isn’t why females avoid an ordeal but why they so frequently voluntarily take one on. Yes, our species owes its continuation to this awesome courage and sacrifice.
PS I find your thoughts on adoptive children becoming serial killers and putting ALL little girls on the pill in case they get raped completely WARPED!! WARPED!!>>
(Denise) About adopted children: I’m merely relating statistical facts. They are 2-3% of the population and 16% of serial murderers. They are also 15 times more likely to kill one or both of their parents than other people. What is wrong with stating facts?
You are of THE OPINION that all young girls be on the pill.
You are of THE OPINION that pregnant women “writhe and scream in agony.”
I am of THE OPINION you are only here to incite.
I am prochoice on who I engage with here on this blog.
Good day, Denise Noe.
Denise,
Try sending your mother a copy of your comments on these issues.
Then ask her why she stayed pregnant with you.
Better yet, don’t.
Your attitude might break her heart.
I believe the reason women volunteer for motherhood is because they have hope. I have never felt more brave and hopeful than when pregnant. Yeah, you gain weight and there are pains, but the rewards are AWESOME!!! (I was HUGE!!! with my twins) BTW: Pregnant chics are especially lovely, waddle included. :)
Hope and expectation is the “glow” of pregnancy.
LOL Denise Noe. You are crazy! When I look back on my pregnancy with my son I don’t remember “swell swell swell” and “writhing in agony”. I didn’t swell, number one, and number 2 while I did pray loudly during labour (my mom remembers me wailing “Jesus have mercy on me!”) it was forgotten the moment I held my precious boy. If pregnancy and childbirth are so horrible why am I hankering to go through it all again?
Childbirth is NATURAL. It does not endanger a woman’s life. How silly to say such things. You are one of those hateful people that view pregnancy as a disease and describe it as such.
Have you ever had children? If so do you treasure the time you carried them or was it all a burden you wish you’d had suctioned away?
Turns out my mom had terrible asthma during pregnancy and had to be rushed to the hospital a couple of times. She stuck with it because she wanted me. So glad she had a chocie in the matter :)
That’s easy to say, since you’re alive and well, Megan.
I wonder if you would be as happy with her choice had she tried to abort you, and you survived but were missing limbs from the procedure? Gianna Jessen survived a saline abortion procedure and ended up with cerebral palsy. Thank goodness her mother had a choice, right? Good thing our choices never affect others.
When a female is pregnant, her body swells and swells and swells. She is often sick and in pain during much of the pregnancy. When she gives birth she may be in agony for days as she writhes and screams in agony. She will be physically scarred by the pregnancy carried to term and risks her life in doing so.
Wow, writhing and screaming in agony for days, huh? Physically scarred and risking her life?
Such a pretty, pro-life, pro-motherhood, pro-child picture. Thanks for that. Now I know I can remember my children’s births in a whole different light. Have you had children? Are you male?
About adopted children: I’m merely relating statistical facts. They are 2-3% of the population and 16% of serial murderers. They are also 15 times more likely to kill one or both of their parents than other people. What is wrong with stating facts?
What’s wrong with it is that most adopted individuals are perfectly wonderful members of society. Most adopted individuals are well-adjusted and happy.
We’ve been through this before. You cannot simply yank adoption out of the entire mix of factors which produce serial killers and say “see, adoption is bad news.”
You’re glad she had a choice in the matter Megan? It’s easy to say that when you’re already born. I mean say you went back in time to when your mother was pregnant and your mother chose not to give birth. Can you honestly say you’d be happy not to be born because of asthma? Is that how little you value your life?
I don’t value my life over my mother’s right to make decisions about her body. People here talk about their mothers as if they were mere vessels. “MY mom didn’t have a right to my body, MY mom didn’t have the right to kill me at six weeks. MY mom was raped and couldn’t access an abortion, blah blah blah.”
Great. You’re alive. But how emotionally shattered is your mom?
yeah, my mom is emotionally shattered I’m here Megan. You pro-aborts have some kind of mental illnesses or illness of the soul. What is wrong with you guys?
My mom DIDN’T have a right to my body. I don’t have a right to my son’s body. Our bodies belong to us and other people cannot kill us. Thats such a basic concept Megan. My mother wasn’t a “mere” vessel. Thats how you pro-aborts see women. You take something as beautiful as a mother/child relationship and pervert and distort it. GAG. I just can’t deal with you guys tonight. You are mentally tiring with your backwards life view.
I don’t value my life over my mother’s right to make decisions about her body.
If your mother’s decision was to use her own body to cause harm to the body of another – like yours, perhaps – I hope you’d care and value your life enough to fight for it.
You’re now strong enough to defend yourself and an unborn child isn’t. That’s the difference.
I guess might makes right.
@Megan
Okay so the answer is yes then, you do have little value over your life if you’re mother having a right to kill is more important than you having a right to live. Oh and you suggest that if a mother doesn’t have the option to abort then she is just a mere vessel to her child? What? Are you saying the ability to choose to kill her unborn child gives her worth as a woman, without that she is just an object?
That’s an unfortunate view to have. What you’re saying is nonsense and I don’t think you really believe this, like most pro-aborts you have to say these kind of things to justify your position.
I think you’re more intelligent than that and I hope one day you will be honest about what you believe,
but I guess we’ll never know how you would really feel in that situation because well, you’re already born.
I’m surprised that my emphasis on the risks and pains associated with pregnancy is seen as demeaning to mothers. Rather, it emphasizes the courage and self-sacrifice of those who have babies.
“Oh and you suggest that if a mother doesn’t have the option to abort then she is just a mere vessel to her child?”
If she wants an abortion, then yes, she is being treated as a mere vessel. What are your disagreements with that statement, exactly? She’s a conduit for developing life against her will. Is that not accurate?
Kel says:
April 15, 2011 at 4:06 pm
About adopted children: I’m merely relating statistical facts. They are 2-3% of the population and 16% of serial murderers. They are also 15 times more likely to kill one or both of their parents than other people. What is wrong with stating facts?
What’s wrong with it is that most adopted individuals are perfectly wonderful members of society. Most adopted individuals are well-adjusted and happy.We’ve been through this before. You cannot simply yank adoption out of the entire mix of factors which produce serial killers and say “see, adoption is bad news.”
(Denise) I said nothing to dispute the fact that many adopted people do quite well. For example, Steve Jobs is an adoptee. Yes, there are many well-adjusted adoptees.
However, the fact is that adoption is a risk factor for many negative things. This shouldn’t be sugar-coated or looked over. There are many other risk factors associated with serial murder: bed-wetting, tormenting animals, setting fires, being sexually, emotionally, or physically abused as a child, etc. Heck, high intelligence is associated with being a serial murderer!! That hardly means being smart is bad.
The truth is that adoption should not be presented as a panacea. Adopted parents are 15 times more likely to be killed by their children than other parents. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t adopt: matricide and patricide are very rare crimes.
It is possible that the practice of open adoption, in which an adopted child may grow up knowing and even perhaps occasionally visiting his or her biological mother, may alleviate some of the negatives associated with adoption.
The simple truth of the matter is that adoption has problems.
Sydney M. says:
April 15, 2011 at 2:09 pm
LOL Denise Noe. You are crazy! When I look back on my pregnancy with my son I don’t remember “swell swell swell” and “writhing in agony”. I didn’t swell, number one, and number 2 while I did pray loudly during labour (my mom remembers me wailing “Jesus have mercy on me!”) it was forgotten the moment I held my precious boy. >>
(Denise) You’re making my point. You wailed, “Jesus have mercy on me!” because you were in great physical pain. Childbirth is painful. It can be hours and hours or even days of extreme pain.
But you — and most women — willingly endure this ordeal in order to have babies. This is a pro-motherhood statement: mothers show courage and self-sacrifice when they carry to term and give birth.
<<If pregnancy and childbirth are so horrible why am I hankering to go through it all again?>>
(Denise) You want the result of the ordeal: the baby.
Thought experiment: suppose someone was doing an experiment. You could have every sign of pregnancy, your body swelling like a pregnant woman’s, morning sickness, etc. At the end of 9 months you would experience labor for the same amount of time you did with your last child.
The only difference in this faux “pregnancy” is that there would be no baby. Would you want to participate in such an experiment? Probably only if you were paid. You might want a very high payment. Some women who have willingly been mothers would, I bet, not be willing to participate at all.
<<Childbirth is NATURAL. It does not endanger a woman’s life.>>
(Denise) Females have died in child birth throughout history and sometimes still do. The body is left with stretch marks and the belly may be left permanently puffed out.
<<How silly to say such things. You are one of those hateful people that view pregnancy as a disease and describe it as such.>>
(Denise) Recognizing the ordeal of pregnancy means giving honor to those who willingly endure it.
<<Have you ever had children? If so do you treasure the time you carried them or was it all a burden you wish you’d had suctioned away?>>
(Denise) I’ve never had an abortion. One of the reasons I was extremely careful in certain aspects was that I was horrified by the idea of a fetus having arms and legs ripped out as it is suctioned.
I’ve never been pregnant.
My point is that we keep asking: “Why do females have abortions?” This isn’t a mystery: people usually attempt to avoid ordeals. Pregnancy and childbirth are ordeals — but women take them on voluntarily.
Enough already. You paint an ugly picture of pregnancy.
Yes it is obvious you have not been pregnant, Denise Noe. Your constant harping about writhing and screaming for hours and days is getting a bit tedious. You are not HONORING mothers by your posts. Wrap your head around the simple fact that women will endure much to have a baby! Some women breeze through pregnancy without ANY of the things you list.
Try this-I cannot believe what mothers might go through to have a child! Wow! It is so amazing and I am in awe of so many women that love pregnancy and child birth. Mothers are awesome!! I love pregnant women! I love those baby bumps! Pregnant women are beautiful! See the diff?
ANY physical discomfort simply doesn’t make one iota of difference when I beheld each little person and they were handed to me. Awe, wonder, an absolute miracle!! And I should be upset by stretch marks?? ppppphhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Yeah Carla, and you wanted to be pregnant. That’s the point.
Carla says:
April 16, 2011 at 6:53 am
Enough already. You paint an ugly picture of pregnancy.
Yes it is obvious you have not been pregnant, Denise Noe. Your constant harping about writhing and screaming for hours and days is getting a bit tedious. You are not HONORING mothers by your posts. Wrap your head around the simple fact that women will endure much to have a baby!
(Denise) And I think we’ve found the reason for abortion. A woman yearning for a baby is willing to “endure much.” A woman without that yearning views the ordeal as simply an ordeal. Without that yearning, she might feel the pregnancy is intolerable.
We’ve also found the way to end abortion: make certain that the only pregnant females are those yearning to have babies.
Um. No. Megan. Go back and reread what Denise wrote. That is not at all the point.
We were talking about Denise’s presumption that women writhe and moan and groan in agony for days………..even though she has never been pregnant and has no idea.
Denise, WRONG as well.
Explain coerced and forced abortion.
I was coerced into an abortion I didn’t want.
Are you are 14 year old boy or something?
Sheesh.
We’ve also found the way to end abortion: make certain that the only pregnant females are those yearning to have babies.
Denise, what are your thoughts on how to make that happen?
I absolutely love being pregnant. Love it. Any difficulty I deal with throughout is so insignificant that it pales in comparison to the joy I have when I see my new baby at the end. I am so thankful to have the opportunity to be blessed with children- I know what it is like to lose a baby, and I know the feeling of secondary infertility and being afraid that I will never conceive again. Because of those two things, I enjoy pregnancy more than I ever did before. It is a blessing, an opportunity, a joy, and a GIFT.
What I think is strange is that feminists want to be better than men, but instead of enjoying what they can do, they think they have to become men to achieve this! So strange…. how do they not see the fact that they can bring a new LIFE into the world as being something significant? It is something a man CANNOT DO. We can do MORE than men!! We can do something so amazing that a man simply can never be able to do. Think about it! If you are a feminist, you should LOVE your fertility for this very reason!
“The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. “
My mother wasn’t a “mere” vessel. Thats how you pro-aborts see women.
Amen Sydney…I have never, ever heard a pro-lifer refer to a woman with children as a “breeder”, “incubator”, “baby machine”, or any of the like…yet every pro-abortion woman I have ever met has at one time or another referred to women who actually enjoy pregnancy in this way! Amazing how they project their own reality onto us. It’s called ‘being a hypocrite’.
JS says:
April 16, 2011 at 4:05 pm
We’ve also found the way to end abortion: make certain that the only pregnant females are those yearning to have babies.
Denise, what are your thoughts on how to make that happen?
(Denise) We can do a lot more than we are doing now. The first step is to be realistic but not overly pessimistic. Not all fertile females who don’t yearn for babies will abstain from sexual intercourse — but we can increase the numbers of such females abstaining. We can put in more supports for teen girls, particularly the shy, introverted, unattractive girls upon whom the more predatory boys and young men tend to prey. We can start a dialogue with boys and young men about their responsibility since they are the ones who usually pursue and press for the type of sex that leaves females pregnant. We should consider reviving the custom of chaperoned dating as one way to encourage interactions between young males and females that might lead to eventual marriage but not the more destructive sex before it. We can recognize that people who are going to have partnered sex can be encouraged to have other types of sex — even “perverted” or “kinky” sex — that don’t lead to pregnancies. We can encourage the more widespread use of the most reliable of the contraceptives we already have and research contraceptives with fewer side effects that are equally reliable. We can put more research into contraception for males.
Abortion is brutal. Even early in the pregnancy, arms and legs and a head are torn off. Later in the pregnancy, the fetus might be doused with a saline solution that poisons and burns it or a doctor jams his or her hand in the womb to tear the fetus limb from limb. However, this brutality might be inevitable as long as females become pregnant who cannot accept the state of pregnancy because they yearn for its result.
We need a multi-pronged approach promoting greater abstinence AND more responsible use of contraception to decrease this horror.
One more thing: people who favor abortion’s legality should say they are pro-abortion legality. There is often no “choice” as a female may COMPULSIVELY seek the abortion because she can’t tolerate the pregnancy. That’s not making a “choice.”
“If she wants an abortion, then yes, she is being treated as a mere vessel. What are your disagreements with that statement, exactly? She’s a conduit for developing life against her will. Is that not accurate?”
Megan,
If abortion were illegal and she wanted one, then yes you could say the law is forcing her to give birth, you’re right that is factually accurate. But to say she is being treated like a vessel or a conduit is only a subjective description of what’s happening. That comes down to what your perspective is on childbirth, it’s not an objective statement.
One could just as easily say she’s being forced to be a responsible parent to the child she conceived by not killing it because once the child is conceived the mother has a responsibility not to kill it and there’s nothing dehumanizing about forcing someone to be responsible.
Now those are two different views about giving birth, one deems the woman as an object the other as a person with a responsibility to their child.
My point is your perspective ignores that their is an innocent child that needs protecting and it manipulates the word ‘vessel’ to make the woman seem like a victim to the child, I don’t think that’s fair.
Just because a law forces you to do something you don’t want to doesn’t mean you are being treated like objects otherwise you could say that any law objectifies someone.
For ex., If one doesn’t want to pay taxes and the government forces them they could say the gov. is treating me like a slave. They could honestly feel that way too but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for them to not pay taxes based on those feelings. Feelings are subjective and can be and attitudes can be adjusted, in society we have to put things in an objective context of what’s right and wrong. We can’t just people make decisions based on their perspective.
I want to say that I know that pregnant women can be attractive.
I…
I don’t believe in abortions never did and never will. It is not our place to take a life. This is an innocent person one who has done no wrong, but some think it is fine to commit murder on a child. I… huh… I just had a miscarriage because I’m O negative and the baby was positive. I was 3 1/2 months into the pregnancy. I couldn’t find it in myself to tell my family why I was in the hospital so I told them my hormones are just out of balance. So anytime I’m happy, acting silly, annoyed, angry etc. they say something stupid about my hormones. Them saying something doesn’t bug me its the reminder. I know it wasn’t my fault there wasn’t much I could do. To think that someone would purposely hurt, abuse, or kill a child is just so hard to grasp. People these days are just so selfish so blind to so much. Its no wonder most people are unhappy. I think its crazy how people know what we do that is so wrong yet we still do it. Or how people need to smoke, drink or take something to be happy. How people teach children… sigh. I pray and hope that whatever and however our future goes the children don’t suffer. For they are our future. And the way some people teach them its no wonder Earth only gets worse. Any ways… I have a lot to say, but I’ve already had a long day. God Bless you and your family… I hope yall the best. goodnight.