Breaking: Jury awards $36 million to abortion survivor in judgment against late-term abortionist
Today I’m told an Orlando, Florida, jury handed down a whopping $36,766,000 civil judgment against notorious late-term abortionist James Pendergraft (pictured below left).
There is nothing on this in the news yet. I’m going by information provided by pro-lifers who have been in the courtroom all week.
Pendergraft is a convicted felon who pro-lifers will also remember was the owner of the clinic where Baby Rowan was aborted alive and allowed to die in 2005.
The case that went to trial this week against Pendergraft resulting in that behemoth judgment was by a mother named Carol Howard, who went to Pendergraft’s Orlando Women’s Center on November 11, 2001, to abort her 22.3 week old baby girl, who survived.
Sidewalk counselor Patte Smith communicated with Howard in 2004 and gained access to information and court documents until Howard’s attorney cut off communication. But this is how we know the backstory to today’s jury decision.
Howard was single and pregnant for the 3rd time. She had one living child and had aborted the other.
The method of abortion at this stage was induction of labor and delivery. “If all went according to plan Carol Howard’s infant would be stillborn,” Patte wrote. “Carol paid $1300 cash to have her infant murdered. All did not go according to plan.
“According to her medication flow sheet,” Patte continued, “200mg of Cytotec were administered to Carol Howard every hour beginning at 1:30pm through midnight. At 1:30am clinic worker Tanya Severance noted in her chart: ‘1am Patient was very upset about us not being able to give her pain meds. She left without signing release. Would not talk with us before leaving in a fit of temper…. She also thought this was taking way to[o] long.'”
In labor, Howard left the Orlando Women’s Center and went to Arnold Palmer Hospital.
In the early morning hours of November 16, Howard delivered her baby daughter alive. The tiny girl weighed 1 pound, 6 ounces. The child, “JH” in court documents, was resuscitated and survived.
On May 25, 2004 Howard filed a civil lawsuit against abortionist Randall Whitney, Pendergraft, and Orlando Women’s Center (Case 04CA-1202 Orange County, Florida), to provide funding for lifetime care of “JH,” who was severely harmed as a result of the abortion and premature delivery. According to court documents, the now nearly 10-yr-old girl lives with:
cerebral palsy loss of function of left side of body strokes/brain damage physical, emotional & cognitive delays lung damage & chronic lung disease & seizure disorder
Yesterday a jury awarded Howard $18,255,000 in damages against Pendergraft, with court costs against him at $462,000.
However, the judge in the called the jury back this morning, and after hearing expert testimony they awarded Howard $36,766,000.
I have no documentation on any of this yet but am working on it. However, pro-lifers have been present in the courtroom all week and taking notes, and Patte is a scrupulous record-keeper.
The press has been utterly silent on this trial all week.
[HT: Patte Smith and Leslie Hanks]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Hopefully Bill will be blocked, sounds like a bored teenager with a low I.Q. wanting attention. Prayers for the low self esteem troll.
Hold on.
Carol Howard wanted her baby girl dead.
Now the girl is alive with loads of issues.
What’s she suing him for, then? That he didn’t do the job right and now he’s got to pay for the very child that she paid him to terminate?
Yes, let’s get the details, Jill, because right now I’m not feeling much sympathy here. Not trying to sound callous, but something’s not jiving. Can’t put my finger on it…
Is it just me … or does anyone else have “mixed feelings” about abortionist Pendergraft’s case & the aborting mother receiving tens of millions of $$$’s b/c the abortionist failed to kill her baby … in what she considered a “resonable time frame”? I realize there’s more to the case including how she was handled when she returned to the abortuary. But she didn’t “change her mind” & want the abortion stopped.
I agree. It’s hard to find sympathy for this mother. She paid a lot of money to have her baby killed. Now she’s suing because her daughter had the nerve to survive? This is mom’s fault as much as Pendergraft’s. I feel so sorry for that poor girl. I truly hope she is being taken care of properly and is loved by someone.
Ok, I had the details a tiny bit confused.
THIS mom did NOT return to the abortuary – she delivered at the local hospital approx 3 1/2 hours after leaving the abortuary in the middle of the night.
Her daughter is now 10 with a lot of life long complications, including (but not limited to):
cerebral palsy
loss of function of left side of body
strokes/brain damage
physical, emotional & cognitive delays
lung damage & chronic lung disease & seizure disorder.
The suit seems to be pretty specific relating to the life long care of the daughter. I do not know how the settlement is designated to be dispersed or “handled.”
I feel so bad for this kid.
I actually do have sympathy for the mom. Whatever she thought at the time, she kept her child so she most likely cares about her, and has a daily reminder of how badly her decision to abort affected her child. Of course, if it turns out she is just money-grubbing, then I don’t really have a lot of sympathy for her.
Now file charges against the mother for hiring this hitman to harm the baby in the first place. Put all the funds in a trust for this girl. Lock up the people who tried to hurt her-BOTH of them-and outlaw this barbarism. I’m outraged.
Glad to see I’m not the only one here wondering, “Whaaa?”
I really do feel sorry for the girl when she grows up. That’s all I really have to say.
It does seem like one of those “wrongful birth” suits, which I think are a shame and a tragedy.
If Pendergraft was only doing what the mother paid him to do, I don’t see how it’s his fault, assuming he followed all rules, regulations, medical guidelines.
If the mother changed her mind midway through I feel bad for her, but our choices do have consequences. I mean, if she had chosen to binge drink during her pregnancy and the injuries listed above were a direct result of her choosing to drink, would she sue Budweiser??
I hope all of the money is put in a trust fund so that it can only be used for the purposes of her daughter’s care.
I am not certain the mom DOES have custody – there is another name listed as the “guardian de son tort of the property of JH, an incapacitated minor.” (“JH” is the daughter who was almost aborted.)
This kind of case also strengthens the late termers’ resolve to inject the heart of the baby (or find some other method) to kill the baby to be CERTAIN that NO BABY that has begun to be aborted has the chance of being delivered alive. We had a 20 week abortion stopped and reversed in Vegas b/c the mom DID change her mind and regret her deciosion. She successfully carried her baby another 16 weeks and delivered a healthy, darling baby girl who is now 17 months old and completely normal by all measures! I KNOW that God stopped the abortionist from injecting that baby’s heart to kill her!
I do not understand why this case is referred to – and apparently was ruled – as a “botched abortion.” She LEFT the abortuary of her own accord – against “doctor” orders – and the abortuary called the hospital to be sure she was being medically cared for and found out that she was in the care of the labor & delivery staff.
Seems like it was moving along pretty quickly. She delivered in just over 14 hours after induction. A late term abortion is commonly planned to “complete” somewhere between 2 – 3 days. Her own paperwork, that she signed at the abortuary, stated she would likely deliver in 16 – 20 hours, but for sure before 38 hours.
I have NO IDEA how her baby was planned to be killed. Just delivering early is not generally enough to kill the baby.
By no means am I justifying ANY abortionist or the ”business” of abortion at any age for any reason. I am just trying to understand this …
I agree with a couple other’s here, with the info given this sounds like a ‘wrongful life’ suit, which is more than a travesty of the legal/civil justice system it is directly linked to the whole death-camp notion of ‘better off dead than disabled’. I hope there is more to the story to hear, because right now it’s a horrible story with only a child victim who, if she has enough mental capcity, will someday know her mother thought she would be better dead than alive and so she sued the abortionist for not getting the job done. It is a horrendous sign of the times that anyone could be sued or held (negatively) accountable for *not* killing a person.
Wow for once it seems like we all are in agreement.
This really is a sick an rediculous case. I mean suing for late term abortion doctor because he harmed your baby. really, lady? really.
The man did nothing illegal so he won’t be going to jail and his insurance is jus going to pay it, so its not like its going to effect his finances either. The only people suffering are the girl, the insurance company, and patients who have to pay more so doctors can pay exorbitant fees for insurance.
The mother in this case really makes me sick. The fact that she has this much audacity is incredible
You know, if this lady would have stayed at the abortion mill, she probably wouldn’t be suing right now because the mill staff knows how to handle babies accidentally born alive: they lock their mothers in the bathroom with them until the babies die of suffocation. Just ask baby Rowan’s mother.
There is so much wrong with this case I don’t know where to begin. :(
It’s hard for us to hear this story & not to weep. I think it was my friend Allura said that there was a sorrowful joy. That poor little child will suffer, but thanks be to God, there will be money for her care. Let us pray for godly sorrow & repentance unto life for Carol Howard. There is forgiveness & peace for those who will turn from all of their sin & cry out to Jesus for mercy.
Shannon says:
July 23, 2011 at 12:08 am
Wow for once it seems like we all are in agreement.
This really is a sick an rediculous case. I mean suing for late term abortion doctor because he harmed your baby. really, lady? really.
And yet you’d be fine with this whole thing if only the baby had been killed instead of just maimed. Why?
One of the most gripping videos I have ever seen of babies born alive after abortion.
http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-and-born-alive-babies.html
That’s what struck me when I first read this post. I don’t take any joy in a “wrongful life” type of lawsuit. It makes me feel ill. I’m glad that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
If Pendergraft had “done his job” this girl would have been killed and we never would have heard about it.
I am sickened.
A wrongful life lawsuit? How absolutely sick.
Why does Carol Howard have custody of the baby she tried to abort? I’ve been criticized for mentioning negatives connected with adoption. However, it seems to me that in a case like this, placing the baby for adoption should be MANDATORY. No girl or woman should go in for an abortion and then go home with the baby that has been damaged because of her action.
We aren’t sure that she has custody.
And just in case you didn’t see, your comment on the other thread was deleted and you have been warned. Any more postings like that and you will be banned, Denise Noe.
Carla says:
July 23, 2011 at 1:19 pm
We aren’t sure that she has custody.
And just in case you didn’t see, your comment on the other thread was deleted and you have been warned. Any more postings like that and you will be banned, Denise Noe.
(Denise) What is wrong about suggesting a female who aborts shouldn’t have custody of an abortion survivor?
xalisae
you asked And yet you’d be fine with this whole thing if only the baby had been killed instead of just maimed. Why?
Not exactly. A woman like any other person has the right not to use her body to keep another alive, especially considering the condition will make her health worst. This means she has a right not to be pregnant against her will. The woman in question had to deliver her baby anyway. I support abortion when it is the only way to make a woman unpregnant. Birth in this case was another equally convenient way to make the woman un pregnant.
I think some common sense is needed, and I really am tired of women blaming the abortion industry when they are being a dumb***
What is the take away message for abortionists?
The woman in question had to deliver her baby anyway.
Ok. So from your point of view, you’re only upset that the woman had to deliver a whole baby and go through labor and delivery, and the only reason that happened is because she left, so she wouldn’t be entitled to anything, and the injuries to the baby involved are completely irrelevant.
And that’s why you agree with us that this is horrible. Wow.
X, I think Shannon is saying that she is against abortion post-viability because the child can survive outside of the womb. I don’t think it’s ethically tenable, but I know a lot of choicers that think like that.
Denise Noe,
I am not talking about custody.
You will banned for your continued perverse sexual comments. This is your last warning.
I think you already know that though.
Bottom line message to abortionists: make sure you kill the damn thing.
That poor girl. First her mother tried to have her killed, and now that she’s alive her mother gets $36 million plus because she isn’t dead! And that on top of her medical conditions. Talk about adding insult to injury. What a horrible jury. What a horrible everybody involved in this suit. Honestly, just…ugh.
Joan says:
July 23, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Bottom line message to abortionists: make sure you kill the damn thing.
Joan and friends: yes. please keep talking. PLEASE.
Should females who abort automatically lose custody if the baby survives the abortion?
Is that the same joan? I thought she had a lowercase j.
No, not the same Joan/joan.
Perhaps the “new Joan” could add a number to her moniker to avoid confusion?
Should females who abort automatically lose custody if the baby survives the abortion?
That is a good question. I think it would depend on how she felt about her original decision to kill the child. If she is glad that the abortion failed and thrilled that her baby is alive, she should have custody. On the other hand, if she is upset that the abortion failed that would seem to indicate that she would not be interested in having custody anyway, unless there was some benefit in it for her.
This case is so weird. “You failed to kill this person, so now you have to pay her medical bills.”
There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding this case, which is understandable. I was one of the 7 members of the jury for this trial(also one of the six to deliberate) and would be happy to answer any questions abouts this case you may have, to the best of my ability.
A couple key points. The case was brought forth by Carol Howard against Dr. Pendergraft & OWC due to the fact that the abortion was carried out against Florida law, which led to the ultimate conclusion of the child “JF” being born severly premature. This resulted in catastrophic permament injuries to the child. The damages of $18.2 million we awarded are to cover the projected cost of her care for the rest of her expected life. It will be put into a trust(the trust agent was the other plaintiff) and will be overseen by the court to be used only for her care.
The additional $18 million we awarded on Friday were punitive. To punish & detour any future acts of this sort. We found Pendergratf & OWC willfully negligent of wrongdoing(for a number of reasons). They violated Florida law in a number of ways, the most glaring being no doctor saw Carol Howard(or any of the other patients at the clinic) during any of the procedure. Pendergraft was actually in federal prison when this occured.(We were not told why, later I found out it was due to an extortion conviction.) He has set up an abortion mill operation to maximize profits and minimize costs(only medical assistants working at the clinic). In doing so he cuts corners showing zero regard for Florida Law or the health & well being of his clientel.
Carol Howard had life threatening complications during the birth of her first child. She testified that is why she made the tough decision to abort this pregnancy. We were not told of a previous abortion(though it would not have factored into our decision)She testified she was in severe pain, was denied pain medication, nor the privilage to speak to Dr. Whitney, by the MA Tanya. She was then told to take her attitude and leave($1300 was already collected, what did they care anymore).
We viewed video of “JF” with Ms. Howard. She is a doting mother that cares for both her children, from what I can tell being a parent myself.
If you have any questions feel free to let me know.
Let’s hope Pendergraft doesn’t get Jose Baez’s number.
Thanks, Juror, for chiming in. Additional information helps. Knowing the clinic broke the law does, at least somewhat, tip the scales towards their fault and does leave them somewhat negligent in the harm they did JF. On the other hand, it sounds from your discription that the mom wasn’t cohersed, lied to, or forced (unless she was given incorrect info about the danger to her in the current pregnancy re the last one, many times a ‘life threatening pregnancy’ has no bearing on risks of future pregnancies), and went in with her eyes open in an attempt to kill her child. That she is now a good mother shows people can change, but doesn’t make me sympathetic to *her* plight. I think that she was kicked out in the middle of a dangerous proceedure, however, does make her a somewhat victim of the situation.
We viewed video of “JF” with Ms. Howard. She is a doting mother that cares for both her children, from what I can tell being a parent myself.
Except for that whole “trying to have her killed” thing. I’m sorry, but in my book, “doting mother” and “tried to have child killed” are mutually exclusive.
“from what I can tell being a parent myself.”
Have you ever killed or tried to have killed any of your children?
Jespern,
Florida law states that a “licensed physician” is required to inform the patient of any risks, complications, etc having to do with the procedure to be performed. They are also required to initiate & supervise the carrying out of the procedure. She was given a stack of papers to sign and not instructed on the risks(against law) Ms. Howard was checked in & “counseled” by office staff, which as far as we could tell was making sure she signed all the forms and making sure she had the money. Oral/vaginal meds where given to her by a MA(against law) around 1pm, which where inserted herself. No physician was ever present at the clinic save to “check in” momentarily. Dr. Whitney would drive down from Ormond @ around 9pm, and stay at the Motorlodge apparently JIK. The medical assistant(HS diploma educated) ran the show. Ultrasounds were not administered, dangerous off label use drugs were given by unqualified staff, and women were assured things the clinic never planned on providing(pain meds, doctor present) most likely because of the bite it would take into profits. The actual abortion procedure & drugs used at the clinic for 2nd term ab. increased uterine contraction strength & speed, risking the likelyhood of rupture to the women(Howard’s 1st preg was ceserean). Ultimatley, the negligent procedure was the reason for “JF”‘s quick premature trip through the birth canal(where she wasn’t crushed to death as planned) & ultimate injuries. Since no qualified sonogram was done, Ms. Howard nor the clinic new that “JF” would be viable at that time. One of the things that kept me up at night was hearing the routine practice was for the women to void the fetus’ into the toilet of the facility, often by themselves. The MA testified on occasion movement was seen,yet no vitals were checked or resuscitation was performed. All of these protocals were put into place long ago by Pendergraft. He preys on poor, scared women in their time of desperation. Howard was 20 when this occurred. Her feelings of guilt are palpable, yet she is also a victim.
We as a jury struggled with the $18 million punitive. You have to understand it is “punitive” to Pendergraft, not a reward for Howard. We felt that no matter what anyones beliefs concerning abortion, all can agree that a practice like this has no place in our society. The $18.2m for “JF” was a no brainer because she is an innocent victim in all this. We had options and chose the most expensive one. She will most likely never be able to function above a 2yr old mentally, cannot really communicate, and has profound motor impairment. The money will be administered according to a structured patient lifeplan.
Juror, it’s been said many times that when abortionists say ‘safe and legal’ what they mean is ‘profitable and unaccountable’. I do agree with punitive damages as clearly the abortionist was not only morally wrong but legally wrong as well. My sympathy, or lack thereof, doesn’t have anything to do with the legal aspects of a case, and you are a good juror if you could divorce any personal feelings about such a tragic situation and just sit in legal judgement. You are to be commended for your service. I know from study though that few doctors, and even fewer abortionists are actually punished by ‘punitive’ awards. They are either ‘judgement proof’, with assets in other’s names or legally divorced from themselves or their insurance will cover it without any skin off their backs. Provided you don’t just want to put the whole thing behind you, may I suggest the book Lime 5? I think you’d find it informative and on point.
“Except for that whole “trying to have her killed” thing. I’m sorry, but in my book, those two things are mutually exclusive.”
xalisae,
As I mentioned before. Carol Howard almost passed away while giving birth to her first child. She was told at that time it was best to wait a few years before attempting to concieve again. Contraception was used, but is not 100% as we all know. 20 years old, scared for herself & her family, she made an extremely difficult decision. No one is perfect. Rhetoric like “trying to have her killed” shows a complete lack of compassion. JMHO.
And my mom almost passed away while giving birth to my miscarried sibling when I was just a baby (she had to have a transfusion, etc.), and then again while having my youngest little brother. She eventually had her tubes tied and didn’t have to have any of us killed in abortions (I’m the oldest of 6 living children in all). Medical problems are a reason to closely monitor your pregnancy, your health, and that of your child. It isn’t an excuse to elect (yeah, this was ELECTIVE) to kill the baby.
No one is perfect, but an awful lot of us manage to restrain ourselves from attempting to kill or have our children killed.
“Compassion” for killers and attempted killers doesn’t belong in a court of law. If you make your decisions based on such emotional notions, I don’t think you’re doing as good of a job as a juror as Jespren thinks you are.
But I’ll second the recommendation of Lime 5, since you seem to think this kind of behavior is uncommon in the abortion industry and you seem terribly ill-informed.
Jespren,
What you say is very true. Pendergraft in fact has upwards of 8 LLC’s he funnels money thru. The umbrella company for his 5 clinics, Wilson Management, he put 64% controlling interest in his girlfriend’s name and the other 36% is in his. He & his girlfriend refused to divulge the umbrella company’s finances as authorized by discovery rules, chosing to instead be charged with contempt. All of the jurors’ greatest hope is the plaintiff can recover the money awarded. Unfortunatley, we all realize it most likely will be a long hard road frought with appeals. But that is out of our hands. My disgust with the whole scheme got to me emotionally and I was pushing for $50m, $100m whatever I thought could crush him(in my outrage obviously I wanted this guy bankrupt & his clinics closed).
During deliberations rational minds brought things back to Earth and an $18m hit hmade sense to all of us. To much higher and risk of reversal goes up. I realized $50 million emotionally would feel great but made no factual sense. $18 million is a serious yet logically defendable whack. It is right about where the damages awarded for injuries was, and would put Pendergraft out over $36 million. Coupled with the statement of 64% Pendergraft responsibility, 36% OWC responsibility we wanted to show him personally it was unacceptable. The 64/36 was our dig at him for his umbrella corp. division of assets.
My time on this trial really enlightened me. Abortion is a VERY difficult, emotionally charged subject. There are no easy answers or solutions. The one thing I AM certain of though is situations like what happened here should never be allowed to occur.
Xalisae, people can change. There are many people who have done horrible things and gone on to better, there are even people on this blog (frequent commenters) who have had successful abortions and gone on to be good parents and be rightly grieved of their past action. My praise for divorcing emotion from legtalities was exactly that. This mother, by everything I’ve heard was fully complicit in the attempt to kill her daughter. She had a previous child, she was familiar with development and birth. She had a possible dangerous situation surrounding childbirth, but she chose to (attempt) to give birth at a clinic after labor was induced (the mention of the plan to crush the child makes this sound like a partial birth abortion so it would have been a footling breech at that!). If she was truly in fear for her life, as opposed to using that as an excuse, she would have been in a hospital with her high risk obgyn or would have aborted immediately upon learning she was pregnant. A late term abortion carries with it all the dangers of an induced labor, which especially for a c-section mom, is more dangerous than waiting for labor to begin naturally. There should be precious little sympathy for a mom who is morally complicit in the attempted death of her child, but from a *legal* standpoint, she is not complicit in the illegalities of the clinic. And, as someone who appears to be expressing remorse and is now caring gently for her child, she should be given forgiveness by society and the understanding that, while consequences may have to be born, a prior bad act, however grievous, does not forever tarnish a true penitant. I know ex cons, ex addicts, ex abusers, ex drug dealers, and even a pastor who is a convicted murderer, but they are all forgiven and living lives for God now. I’m not saying that this mother has properly confessed and been forgiven by God, but even a non-christian can turn from a wrong deed and put that behind them.
Abortion is a VERY difficult, emotionally charged subject. There are no easy answers or solutions. The one thing I AM certain of though is situations like what happened here should never be allowed to occur.
It’s not difficult. Stop the legality of a mother electing to kill her child in utero, and give uniform protection of lives across the board for all stages of life for everyone. That’ll help it not be allowed to occur. Problem answered. Solution provided.
“Compassion” for killers and attempted killers doesn’t belong in a court of law. If you make your decisions based on such emotional notions, I don’t think you’re doing as good of a job as a juror as Jespren thinks you are.
xalisae,
I’m not sure where I ever displayed evidence for compassion for killers or attempted killers influencing me towards a verdict in this case. Care to explain where you see that? Is the “compassion” in the $18 million I punished the doctor with? What I said is when it is all said & done I understand the reason Carol Howard made that tough choice and whether I agree with it or not, I feel for her having to make it and the situation the entire family is in because of it.
No I have not had an abortion, I am a man. My view is it is the woman’s ultimate decision since it is her body. If, when my wife was pregnant & her life was at risk, I personaly would put that option on the table to discuss with her about. It would be a horrific decision to have to make, but her sentient life that presently is, would override the possible life of the fetus. IMO.
I’m happy for your Mother, and for you and your siblings for that matter that everything worked out well. But I’m also happy that she lives in a place where she had that option, if she so chose, however hard a decision to make. You would not have been any the wiser if she had chose a different path. Not every pregnant woman has the resources for quality or satisfactory healthcare.
I am not a prolife/prochoice activist much like most of the world isn’t. I’m not here to debate the topic. I just came to offer some information since people seemed to be a bit confused on what transpired in the case.
xalisae,
I’m not sure where I ever displayed evidence for compassion for killers or attempted killers influencing me towards a verdict in this case. Care to explain where you see that?
And then you go on to state your compassion for JH’s mother who attempted to have her killed in an abortion (attempted killer) with the following statement:
What I said is when it is all said & done I understand the reason Carol Howard made that tough choice and whether I agree with it or not, I feel for her having to make it and the situation the entire family is in because of it.
My view is it is the woman’s ultimate decision since it is her body.
Well, you’re wrong about that then, aren’t you. The woman’s body is most definitely not killed/destroyed in an abortion.
I’m not happy to live in the place where my mother could’ve elected to have had me killed as long as I was in a certain place, or where my children could’ve been legally killed by me depending upon how old they are.
“Compassion” for killers and attempted killers doesn’t belong in a court of law. If you make your decisions based on such emotional notions, I don’t think you’re doing as good of a job as a juror as Jespren thinks you are.
“And then you go on to state your compassion for JH’s mother who attempted to have her killed in an abortion (attempted killer)”
This has ZERO factual bearing on the facts or outcome of what this case was about. Pendergraft broke the law, Carol Howard did not.
“It’s not difficult. Stop the legality of a mother electing to kill her child in utero, and give uniform protection of lives across the board for all stages of life for everyone. That’ll help it not be allowed to occur. Problem answered. Solution provided.”
This is the real world and this will never happen. All stages of “life” are not “equal”. I would recommend “Self comes to Mind” by Neuroscientist Antonio Damasio. You are engaging in simplistic thinking, based purely on emotion as evident by your rhetoric. I’m not sure how you think it furthers your cause. Again, tough decisions need to be made. It is an unfortunate fact of life abortions will always happen, for a variey of reasons.
“I’m not happy to live in the place where my mother could’ve elected to have had me killed as long as I was in a certain place, or where my children could’ve been legally killed by me depending upon how old they are.”
The only reason you feel this way is because you are alive & your life has played out the way it has. If you were aborted none of this would be of consequence to you. You may not feel the same way as you do now had your mother passed away while giving birth to you. You may not feel the same had your siblings or own children been born to a life of pain & suffering due to genetic problems and you could have prevented it.
“Well, you’re wrong about that then, aren’t you. The woman’s body is most definitely not killed/destroyed in an abortion.”
Wrong about what? I was expressing my opinion. It is subjective. Just because you use(what I feel) is inflammatory rhetoric and extreme emotion towards my opinion, doesn’t make it any less valid than yours.
What is indisputable is a human biological “life” is on a continuum. The part of the nervous system that makes up our concious mind does not form at conception, but rather farther along the continuum. To “equate” that developing nonconcious fetus with a concious Mother and give it the same rights does not make sense to me personally. Society using the best information available to come to an appropriate cut off point on that continuum where a woman can make that decision to me is what is of importance. You apparently feel that choice stops at conception(or before if you don’t believe in birth control) which is your personal right. That will never be the LAW for everyone however because it is way to far down the continuum.
No I have not had an abortion, I am a man.
Has any woman stating she was pregnant by you chosen to abort?
praxedes,
No. I am happily married with two healthy children.
No, you’re confusing metaphysics and spirituality for science. What’s indisputable is that a new human being is created at conception, and baring their death, either natural death or should they be killed by someone else (a doctor hired by that human being’s mother, they have every bit of the same components we do now. They are merely at a younger stage in their life cycle. I am not the sum of what my brain can process. No human being is, and we as a species deserve dignity regardless of cognitive capacity, age, size, or whatever other factor you’re choosing to discriminate by (because face it-that’s what you’re doing. Discriminating based on ability. Do you engage in such behavior often, juror?)
My emotions on the subject have no impact whatsoever on the science of the matter. Scientific fact is not subjective. And what you say I base in emotion is far from it. The primary reason I feel as I do is that I have a college biology education. Here’s some information for you, since you seem to be in desperate need of facts:
A United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee invited experts to testify on the question of when life begins. All of the quotes from the following experts come directly from the official government record of their testimony.1
Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni, professor of pediatrics and obstetrics at the University of Pennsylvania, stated:
“I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception…. I submit that human life is present throughout this entire sequence from conception to adulthood and that any interruption at any point throughout this time constitutes a termination of human life….
I am no more prepared to say that these early stages [of development in the womb] represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty…is not a human being. This is human life at every stage.”
Dr. Jerome LeJeune, professor of genetics at the University of Descartes in Paris, was the discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down syndrome. Dr. LeJeune testified to the Judiciary Subcommittee, “after fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being.” He stated that this “is no longer a matter of taste or opinion,” and “not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.” He added, “Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception.”
Professor Hymie Gordon, Mayo Clinic: “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”
Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard University Medical School: “It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive…. It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception…. Our laws, one function of which is to help preserve the lives of our people, should be based on accurate scientific data.”
Dr. Watson A. Bowes, University of Colorado Medical School: “The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter—the beginning is conception. This straightforward biological fact should not be distorted to serve sociological, political, or economic goals.”
A prominent physician points out that at these Senate hearings, “Pro-abortionists, though invited to do so, failed to produce even a single expert witness who would specifically testify that life begins at any point other than conception or implantation. Only one witness said no one can tell when life begins.”2
Many other prominent scientists and physicians have likewise affirmed with certainty that human life begins at conception:
Ashley Montague, a geneticist and professor at Harvard and Rutgers, is unsympathetic to the prolife cause. Nevertheless, he affirms unequivocally, “The basic fact is simple: life begins not at birth, but conception.”3
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, internationally known obstetrician and gynecologist, was a cofounder of what is now the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL). He owned and operated what was at the time the largest abortion clinic in the western hemisphere. He was directly involved in over sixty thousand abortions.
Dr. Nathanson’s study of developments in the science of fetology and his use of ultrasound to observe the unborn child in the womb led him to the conclusion that he had made a horrible mistake. Resigning from his lucrative position, Nathanson wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine that he was deeply troubled by his “increasing certainty that I had in fact presided over 60,000 deaths.”4
In his film, “The Silent Scream,” Nathanson later stated, “Modern technologies have convinced us that beyond question the unborn child is simply another human being, another member of the human community, indistinguishable in every way from any of us.” Dr. Nathanson wrote Aborting America to inform the public of the realities behind the abortion rights movement of which he had been a primary leader.5 At the time Dr. Nathanson was an atheist. His conclusions were not even remotely religious, but squarely based on the biological facts.
Dr. Landrum Shettles was for twenty-seven years attending obstetrician-gynecologist at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in New York. Shettles was a pioneer in sperm biology, fertility, and sterility. He is internationally famous for being the discoverer of male- and female-producing sperm. His intrauterine photographs of preborn children appear in over fifty medical textbooks. Dr. Shettles states, I oppose abortion. I do so, first, because I accept what is biologically manifest—that human life commences at the time of conception—and, second, because I believe it is wrong to take innocent human life under any circumstances. My position is scientific, pragmatic, and humanitarian. 6
The First International Symposium on Abortion came to the following conclusion:
The changes occurring between implantation, a six-week embryo, a six-month fetus, a one-week-old child, or a mature adult are merely stages of development and maturation. The majority of our group could find no point in time between the union of sperm and egg, or at least the blastocyst stage, and the birth of the infant at which point we could say that this was not a human life.7
The Official Senate report on Senate Bill 158, the “Human Life Bill,” summarized the issue this way:
Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings.8
Footnotes:
1 Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981.
2Landrum Shettles and David Rorvik, Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence of Life Before Birth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1983), 113.
3 Ashley Montague, Life Before Birth (New York: Signet Books, 1977), vi.
4Bernard N. Nathanson, “Deeper into Abortion,” New England Journal of Medicine 291 (1974): 1189Đ90.
5Bernard Nathanson, Aborting America (Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1979).
6Shettles and Rorvik, Rites of Life, 103.
7John C. Willke, Abortion Questions and Answers (Cincinnati, OH: Hayes Publishing, 1988), 42.
8Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981, 7.
The only reason you feel this way is because you are alive & your life has played out the way it has. If you were aborted none of this would be of consequence to you. You may not feel the same way as you do now had your mother passed away while giving birth to you. You may not feel the same had your siblings or own children been born to a life of pain & suffering due to genetic problems and you could have prevented it.
First of all, you don’t know jack about how my life has played out. Let’s say I’ve had the most horrible life imaginable (it’s definitely not been a picnic by any stretch of the imagination). I still manage to get my happiness wherever I can find it, and am glad I’ve not been killed. “If you were aborted none of this would be of consequence to you.” is like saying that it should be permissible for someone to kill me today because I won’t really care about it tomorrow-I’ll be dead. I’d mourn my mother if she had died, but I’d still be happy to be alive. Had my children or siblings been “born to a life of pain and suffering” I’d do my best to help care for them as long as they were here and ease their suffering as much as possible, not “prevent” it by killing them. By your logic, John Allen Muhammad is the greatest preventative medicine doctor in the world, huh?
“tough decisions need to be made.”
Whether or not to kill your child or have him/her killed is never an acceptable “tough decision”.
“No, you’re confusing metaphysics and spirituality for science. What’s indisputable is that a new human being is created at conception, and baring their death, either natural death or should they be killed by someone else (a doctor hired by that human being’s mother, they have every bit of the same components we do now.”
Yet the components of the human body have not developed to a point of concious thought or feeling until a certain period of time in it’s life cycle. It’s not metaphysics or spiritual, it’s neuroscience. Not sure why you cut & paste all that stuff. I never claimed a human life didn’t start at conception. Nice straw man though.
I am not the sum of what my brain can process.
As far as we know, you are the sum of what your nervous system takes in throughout the course of your life. Anything else is spirituality.
First of all, you don’t know jack about how my life has played out.
I never said I did. Are you always this angry? What I wrote was “The only reason you feel this way is because you are alive & your life has played out the way it has.” The reason any of us think the way we do is because of the life we’ve experianced.
“If you were aborted none of this would be of consequence to you.” is like saying that it should be permissible for someone to kill me today because I won’t really care about it tomorrow-I’ll be dead.
Seriously? In the former you have no knowledge of the life you are living, in the latter you do.
Had my children or siblings been “born to a life of pain and suffering” I’d do my best to help care for them as long as they were here and ease their suffering as much as possible, not “prevent” it by killing them.
Which is your perogative. Others may feel morally & ethically obligated to terminate that life before it experianced a life of pain & suffering just for the sake of living.
“You are to be commended for your service.”
Agreed.
“What is indisputable is a human biological “life” is on a continuum. The part of the nervous system that makes up our concious mind does not form at conception, but rather farther along the continuum. To “equate” that developing nonconcious fetus with a concious Mother and give it the same rights does not make sense to me personally.”
Disagree with the last part. Why, in your opinion, does conciousness confer human rights on the concious? Please keep in mind that not all humans are concious after birth. Thank you.
“As far as we know, you are the sum of what your nervous system takes in throughout the course of your life. Anything else is spirituality.”
That in itself can be counted as spirituality, because it is an intellectual opinion on what constitutes the limit of human knowledge of the supernatural. By the way, if we are the sum of what our nervous system takes in, then one would expect that all people would behave similarly in similar situations. Speaking of knowlegde, do you trust your senses to inform you of the reality of the world, or is it possible that nothing exists except your own mind? It seems that your answer would be that yes, the world can be known through the senses. However, it would seem that unless you can explain why that is so, you cannot discount human knowlegde of the supernatural.
Yet the components of the human body have not developed to a point of concious thought or feeling until a certain period of time in it’s life cycle. It’s not metaphysics or spiritual, it’s neuroscience.
So? What does one’s development have to do with who or what they are? I’m the same entity regardless of how my brain is functioning. You’re once again mistaking metaphysics or spirituality for science. Your fixation on cognition/consciousness/feeling is reminiscent of if not identical to those religious abortion supporters I’ve spoken to who insist abortion is acceptable because it’s killing someone before they’ve developed a “soul”. Neuroscience doesn’t determine WHAT someone or something is. If cerebral material has been damaged, it doesn’t turn a cat into a mouse or a human into a horse. We are what we are regardless of injury or disease, whether we’re talking about neuroscience, ophthalmology, cardiology, etc.
I never claimed a human life didn’t start at conception.
I just wanted to make certain we were in agreement. Glad we got that out of the way. So…You fully acknowledge the gestating human being as a living human being, you just think it should be legal and acceptable for a parent to elect to have their child killed so long as they are young enough. Thanks for your honesty.
As far as we know, you are the sum of what your nervous system takes in throughout the course of your life. Anything else is spirituality.
Ummm…no. What you’re talking about is spirituality, and it’s called “ensoulment”, and it’s an absurd notion on its face. If someone is blind, or deaf, or lacking some other sensory information to or through his/her nervous system, that does not make them less of a human being, or some different species, or anything of the sort. I am a human being = to a blind human being = a deaf human being = a human being with a cognitive disability. We are not limited to being “the sum of what your nervous system takes in”. We are all human beings, regardless of the discrepancies in sensory input or cognition.
“The only reason you feel this way is because you are alive & your life has played out the way it has.” The reason any of us think the way we do is because of the life we’ve experianced.
Nope. I’d feel the way I do about protecting life regardless of what circumstances I’ve been in through my past. If I hadn’t had my crisis pregnancy 9 years ago but it happened tomorrow, I’d still feel just a strongly about protecting the life within me as I do today. I’m honestly surprised that there are people in the world who think it should be acceptable and legal for a parent to opt to kill their offspring.
Seriously? In the former you have no knowledge of the life you are living, in the latter you do.
Once again: So what? Are you saying the less cognizant of one’s existence one is, the more acceptable it is to kill him or her? So it’d be more acceptable to kill a newborn than a 4 year old, and more wrong to kill a teenager than a 10 year old? A sleeping person is ok to kill, but not a conscious person? The criteria you’ve established for acceptable killing of others makes very little sense and seems rather arbitrary.
Which is your perogative. Others may feel morally & ethically obligated to terminate that life before it experianced a life of pain & suffering just for the sake of living.
“just for the sake of living” varies in importance and becomes much more relevant the closer the person speaking gets to being the life being lived to which they are referring.
Juror, thanks for joining the discussion. We appreciate your bringing in some extra information which we were obviously not privy to. You have given us a lot of insight into what happened to that poor little baby girl. I am a Christian missionary & I have been providing advocacy for women & children at (outside) Orlando Women’s Center since it opened in 1996. I do want to bring a few corrections to several things you were given to believe at the trial. 1) You wrote that Carol Howard “was given a stack of papers to sign and not instructed on the risks (against law)”. This is not quite true. I have copies of the numerous & thorough consent forms which Ms Howard signed at OWC. Which ‘risks’ do you believe she was not informed about? At the time even the website included the risks of live birth (they no longer have that on the website). Is that the risk you mean she was not informed about? 2) pain meds are often withheld, not primarily because they cut into profits, but because they slow labor down. 3) You wrote: “the negligent procedure was the reason for “JF”‘s quick premature trip through the birth canal (where she wasn’t crushed to death as planned)”. Actually patients are routinely informed by Pendergraft’s clinic workers that the induction of labor by Cytotec can cause a mother to give birth anywhere from 6-36hrs. (I have heard them say this myself.) Carol’s consent form for Induction of Labor did, however, say “The majority of women deliver within 16-20 hours after the first insertion of prostaglandin” Carol gave birth 12 hours from induction of labor. That is pretty par for the course for a woman who has had one child & one abortion. In addition, most of the women who are induced give birth to the infants into the toilet. The majority of mothers who come to have their babies murdered after 16 weeks gestation at OWC do not have their infants “crushed to death”. (Perhaps you mean D & E.) 4. You wrote: “Ms. Howard nor the clinic new that “JF” would be viable at that time.” The truth is that her medical record says: “22.3 weeks” The first day of her last period was 6/25/01. She entered OWC on 11/15/01. Her baby was kicking & moving & everyone knew that baby Jordan was alive. Granted, the baby was on the cusp of viability, but everyone knew that infant was viable.
Thank you for serving on the jury & for doing your best to see that baby Jordan would be cared for. We all are hoping & praying that Pendergraft doesn’t get out of this & that the information you heard about infants being born alive & moving gets out to the media. In fact, may I ask if you are willing to speak with media regarding testimony you heard about live births & anything else they ask you?
Welcome to the blog, juror!
Glad you can give us your take on what happened.
I’ve prayed in front of that facility several times. That location has been quite the location of notoriety.
Hope you stick around.
Greetings Lifesong,
I have copies of the numerous & thorough consent forms which Ms Howard signed at OWC. Which ‘risks’ do you believe she was not informed about? At the time even the website included the risks of live birth
We(Jurors) were shown the consent forms that she signed. The testimony of Howard was that no one at the clinic reviewed any of it with her or explained the procedure to her at all(apparently FL law requires this of a physician). She testified that she got a stack of papers, was told to go to another room to fill them out and bring them back. I’m not sure what she actually knew about the risks or possible complications. She lead us to belief that she was completely oblivious to them. No one from the clinic rebutted her testimony of not reviewing the material with her. Having found out after that she had a prior abortion, I’m sure she knew more then she portrayed.
Actually patients are routinely informed by Pendergraft’s clinic workers that the induction of labor by Cytotec can cause a mother to give birth anywhere from 6-36hrs. (I have heard them say this myself.) Carol’s consent form for Induction of Labor did, however, say “The majority of women deliver within 16-20 hours after the first insertion of prostaglandin” Carol gave birth 12 hours from induction of labor.
The plaintifs’ had a highly credentialed OB-GYN as an expert witness. He was visibly upset with the protocol of Pendergraft. He explained the Cytotec(which he said shouldn’t be used at all) combined with the RU-486 is a combination that should never be used due to the high probability of what happened to Jordan occuring. He also said that dioxin should be used that close to viability to ensure the heart stops.
The truth is that her medical record says: “22.3 weeks” The first day of her last period was 6/25/01.
I can’t really recall(they shred our notes after trial) if they did an ultrasound at the clinic. I’m certain that a doctor didn’t, seeing how she didn’t see one the whole time she was there. Tanya the MA testified that she would do ultrasounds for her “own knowledge” whatever that meant. I don’t think Howard ever saw an OB-GYN prior to going to the clinic.
In addition, most of the women who are induced give birth to the infants into the toilet.
Tanya(I can’t remember her last name, starts with an S) testified squirming was observed “a couple times” which to me translated to numerous times. All the clinic workers said most of the infants were evacuated into the toilet as well. Pendergraft even testified it was no big deal and that “Most countries squat to give birth”. Needless to say his testimony did him no favors in our eyes.
Thank you for serving on the jury & for doing your best to see that baby Jordan would be cared for.
I felt privileged to serve. It was one of the toughest, yet most rewarding experiences of my life. When it was all said & done I was glad my attempts to get excused during selection didn’t pan out;)
We all are hoping & praying that Pendergraft doesn’t get out of this & that the information you heard about infants being born alive & moving gets out to the media. In fact, may I ask if you are willing to speak with media regarding testimony you heard about live births & anything else they ask you?
As am I. I would be happy to do anything I can to help shine a light on the situation.
As awful as this story is, it contains good news.
It’s good news that a jury found Pendergraft so reprehensible that it fined him more millions of dollars than most of here can conceive of.
It’s good news that this multiply disabled abortion survivor will have enough money for the medical care she will need for her entire life.
It would be good news if this had been widely reported in the mainstream media, because every time John and Jane Q. Public are reminded of what really goes in abortion mills, that’s a good thing.
No one here should judge or condemn the mother. We do not know her circumstances, nor what led her to seek an abortion so late in her pregnancy. Perhaps she felt that she had no other choice. Many, many women suffer terrible emotional consequences after their abortions. This mother is suffering more than most, because every day she has to face the awful reality of what she’s done. This woman needs our love and compassion and prayer. Let’s not turn on each other here. Abortion is a tragedy for everyone involved.
Maybe this will be the case that finally shuts Pendergraft down. That would be very good news.