20 kids and counting! Michelle Duggar announces pregnancy
Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar had an announcement to make on The Today Show this morning, which is that Michelle was pregnant with their 20th baby. I found myself getting prickly on their behalf watching the response and somewhat annoying questions by Ann Curry…
What a witness this couple and family are. I just love them. See what I mean by this clip posted at People.
And this clip just up on the TLC website…
More from People…
“We are so excited,” says Michelle, 45, who is now about 3-1/2 months into her pregnancy and due in April. “I feel good. I am past the sickness stage now.”
The Tontitown, AR, couple, who are parents to children Joshua, 23 (who is married to Anna, 23 and has two children, Mackynzie, 2 and Michael, 4 months), twins Jana and John-David, 21; Jill, 20; Jessa, 19; Jinger, 17; Joseph, 16; Josiah, 15; Joy-Anna, 14; twins Jedidiah and Jeremiah, 12; Jason, 11; James, 10; Justin, 8; Jackson, 7; Johanna, 6; Jennifer, 4; and Jordyn, 3, weathered the medical emergency of their youngest daughter, Josie’s birth on Dec. 10, 2009.
She was born following Michelle’s preeclampsia diagnosis at a mere 25 weeks, weighing only 1lb., 6 oz….
Following Josie’s life-threatening arrival into the world, the Duggars understand that some might question their latest pregnancy.
“Michelle is probably in better health now than she was 10 years ago,” says Jim Bob, 46. “She has been getting on an elliptical for about an hour a day and is very careful of what she eats.”
Michelle, who is under the care of a high-risk pregnancy doctor, says she is being cautious, eating a lot of protein and green vegetables and abstaining from caffeine. Approximately 10 to 15 percent of women have preeclampsia – Michelle had it with her second pregnancy – and the condition can strike randomly. Women who have had it previously are at higher risk, however….
“If we had lived by fear after Michelle had preeclampsia after her second delivery, we would have missed out on all our wonderful blessings,” he says. “So many of her pregnancies have gone extremely well.”
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
God bless them all, and the new little one! Grow baby, grow! :)
I am glad to see that she’s working with a high-risk OB, maintaining a great diet and working out. During a conversation I had with a friend, I mentioned that she should be following a very nutrient-rich diet and keeping fit. My friend contended she was ‘too old’ to be having babies. PFFT! As long as she mindfully continues to do what is good for her body as well as her kids…I don’t see the problem.
It is always offensive to me when someone asks older siblings, “Really? You’re seriously excited to have another baby brother or sister?” Ugh. What kind of a question is that? This family lives differently than most families – perhaps they get the mentality that appreciating each new life, each new person, is more important than getting every toy on their Christmas list.
My kids were ECSTATIC to know we were going to have a baby before our youngest was born. And they love him dearly. None of us can imagine our lives without him.
Congratulations to the Duggars. I hope she has a healthy pregnancy. And to be clear, preeclampsia can happen anytime, at any age, and to anyone. Women have been having babies in their 40s forever – in fact, isn’t it “all the rage” now to have babies in your 40s?
I love seeing the “tolerance” from folks who seek to redefine families and bullying others into accepting their new definitions FURIOUS at these folks for daring to *gasp* have an ‘alternative lifestyle’.
i was just seroiously watching them. i woke up from a nap and they were shopping on the tlc show “say yes to the dress”! i was also wondering how old michelle was because she looks so young! congrats to them. ill bet the pro death sites will be having a fit and a field day.
Michelle Duggar needs to step it up – a Russian woman had 69 kids.
Uh, I guess I’m a bad prolifer, but I think it’s ridiculous to breed like that.
i cant click on videos from this phone but i dont doubt for a minute ann curry was snippy. her thought in secret is probably ‘ gosh what do these people do just lay around and breed like rabbits’? i dont think ann has kids and ive read that quite a few of her neighbors have described her as “difficult”….
This is a woman who came dangerously close to losing her life or suffering disability with her last pregnancy. Like it or not folks, whatever precautions she takes, she is at risk for another episode. She has one very young child who may be special needs. Even as she stood over the NICU crib of a critically ill child who’s future was totally uncertain at best, she was fantasizing about another pregnancy. How about focusing on the child Michelle instead of yourself? She has said she would risk another premature baby, despite what this could cause the child to suffer. What about the younger children who were deprived of a mother’s time and attention when she was so occupied with Josie? Oh yes, they’ve been foisted off on older siblings since toddlerhood. How about Josie’s possible special needs?
BTW, are you aware Josie suffered a seizure and hospitalization after being left in the care of an older sibling barely out of her teens while mom and dad were out of the country on a mission? Oh yes, they prayed for Josie over the phone. Their snivelling about their helplessness turned my stomach.
Take off the rose colored glasses folks. This woman is a totally self absorbed pregnancy/birth junkie. That mission incident put any of my doubts as to whether she might be otherwise permanently to rest.
Self-absorbed? When does the woman have TIME to be ‘self-absorbed’, Mary? Josie has been seen by several doctors over time and not once have any of them mentioned that Josie has ‘special needs’. The Duggars say they’re “amazed” at what she can do at her age. She suffered a seizure because of a FEVER..she was sick. That could happen to ANY child. In fact, it happened to my cousin’s daughter when she was two. She turned out alright, in fact, she just got married a few months ago. Josie’s sister also had special training. She’s studying to be a nurse.
I don’t think anyone has “rose-colored glasses” on, Mary. We just understand what the Duggars see in accepting that their children are “gifts from God”.
Not everyone is cut out to have/raise 20+ children, but God bless those who make the effort!
(*sigh*) Here we go again (re: arm-chair critics of the Duggars)…
Congrats to the Duggars! I hope Michelle’s pregnancy continues uneventfully, and Baby #20 is born at term and healthy.
Congratulations to the Duggars!! :)
Hey, I thought women had the right to choose? Or does that only apply to aborting?
Phillymiss,
She is not a breeder. She’s a mom.
Just watched the video clip and Michelle was gracious through all of Ann Curry’s snarky and condescending remarks. Hardly professional journalism. Ms. Curry’s disapproval was so thinly veiled… yet the Duggars all remained courteous and classy. God bless them.
Heather, quoting imaginary people: “gosh what do these people do just lay around and breed like rabbits?”
Heather, rabbits do it standing up.
how many times do the duggar’s need to say , they will have as many as God blesses them with and that they are trusting God . people just don’t understand trust .
and God bless all of them for being so kind and gracious , because i don’t think i would be able to stop my mouth from saying ‘ good night nurse ann , how long have you been interviewing us ? can’t you come up with some new questions , some that aren’t so stupid . i thought you were so-pose to be a journalist .
i think the duggar’s are a wonderful example for our society gone mad , people don’t understand them because most people don’t seem to really understand what really means to love and trust , let alone have the courage to live in them .
I wonder if Jim Bob plans to trade her in for a newer model after she hits menopause? Seems to me like he’s not the type to stop sowing his oats just because his wife’s biological clock has run out. Maybe he can convert to Mormonism and fill the void that Warren Jeffs’ incarceration has created?
Pamela,
She has plenty of time to be self absorbed. She foists her toddlers off on older siblings to care for. I didn’t say Josie was special needs, I said she’s at risk. Her needs may not be obvious until she is older.
I know why Josie suffered a seizure. Premature children with extensiive medical histories such as Josie’s are at increased risk. These are not the children who should be left in the care of siblings barely out of their teens while mom and dad are on a mission in another country. She’s studying to be a nurse? I don’t give a damn. Josie is the responsibility of her parents, not an older sibling who isn’t much more than a kid herself.
Part of children being “gifts from God” Pamela is parental responsiblity and care of the children, not simply reproduction. Michelle is willing to risk another premature birth, her words not mine. Well, isn’t that big of her. What about the suffering the child may endure? Was it a picnic for Josie? What of the disruption this caused her family? What of the smaller children who need a mother’s attention as well?
She stands over Josie’s NICU crib and fantasizes about being pregnant. Hey Michelle, how about your critically ill infant? In fact her whole focus since Josie’s birth has been on another pregnancy ASAP. Sorry folks, not my idea of Christian parenting.
I know mothers who had tubal ligations rather than risk not being alive to raise their children.
This is a woman focused on one thing. Pregnancy. That mission incident was the last staw for me.
Hi Carla 12:53PM
I must disagree for reasons stated in my 1:28PM post.
kim jacobson 12:59PM
The Duggars might trust in God but they apparently have no problem with a little human intervention in the form of high risk maternity care, NICUs, specialists, C-sections, etc.
God can be trusted with conception but apparently not to get mother and child to term safely.
GOD BLESS THE DUGGARS!
I absolutely love how they live their lives according to God’s principles in complete and utter disregard for the opinions of the walking dead.
Sorry Ed,
Parenting such as I have described in my posts isn’t my idea of adhering to God’s principles.
Its more about satisfying one’s personal needs.
Uh, I guess I’m a bad prolifer, but I think it’s ridiculous to breed like that.
Yeah, it’s pretty anti-life when you call moms “breeders” just like the pro-aborts do.
Sorry Kel, 1:52PM
But sometimes the shoe fits. There are women who reproduce, period. We see their kids in foster care or they just get dumped on others to care for.
Congrats to the Duggars! I say more power to them !
What is it about choosing to “Trust in God” and “Being open to life” that people don’t understand?
Oh, yeah..it’s only “choice” when a pregnancy ends in the killing of one or both involved…..riiiiiight.
i respect mary and mary you know i like you very much:) same goes for phillymiss. i agree with you guys to a point also. since they are such kind and loving parents why not adopt a few babies in need of love? however the woman is now pregnant so i would not suggest an abortion.
“I know mothers who had tubal ligations rather than risk not being alive to raise their children. ”
Ahhh….now I see where your point of view is coming from.
Something crazy happens when people really do live out their convictions. It’s just so hard for people to wrap their heads around. But we must remember it becomes dangerous when we begin to comment on when whether or not individual women should have more children. (China’s policy, anyone?)
Let’s respect those who actually live out their beliefs – like them or not, the Duggars do that.
So do the Catholic women who would die rather than have a tubal ligation. Those women trust God with their fertility – and with caring for their already-born children. St. Gianna’s story comes to mind.
Mary, I’m pretty sure I wasn’t addressing you, or you would have been quoted.
Kel,
The last I heard this is an open forum with any of us able to address what is posted. Did Jill change the rules?
But sometimes the shoe fits. There are women who reproduce, period.
Now I’m addressing you, Mary.
How do you know when the shoe fits? How many children does it take for the “shoe” to “fit?”
I am friends with 2 families who have 10 kids. My grandfather also came from a family of 10.
Many people would have called my great-grandmother a “breeder” or a woman who “reproduces, period.”
My question is, is it really anyone else’s business? These kids aren’t exactly wards of the state. They’re being raised by a married mother and father. They’re also homeschooled. Oh, the horror. Heaven forbid an older sibling should help with the younger siblings. Not like that was ever done before in history. Not like it prepares anyone to learn how to care for young children – unlike the self-centered youth of today who make it “all about me.”
I bet there’s a lot of love in that house.
Hi Heather 2:02PM
Thank you. I am very fond of you and Phillymiss as well. I most certainly don’t advocate abortion for Michelle. But being loving parents isn’t just reproducing. Its also putting your children and family first, which sorry I don’t see Michelle and JimBob doing.
I am so sorry that you feel that way, Mary.
I will agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. :)
Cathy 2:03PM
My point of view? A woman staying alive to care for her children is a bizarre concept?
I work in a Catholic hospital and women here have tubals, hystectomies, and abortions, pregnancy inductions and premature C-sections when necessary to save their lives, as well as removal of ectopic pregnancies. Sounds like the Catholic church is no longer leaving it all up to God.
Kel,
The last I heard this is an open forum with any of us able to address what is posted. Did Jill change the rules?
You said “sorry Kel, but sometimes the shoe fits” as if I had addressed your comments, which I hadn’t.
Wow, pleasantly surprised to hear this one–seemed like it has been longer between pregnancies this time, so I was starting to wonder if they were no longer able to conceive.
Congrats to Jim Bob, Michelle, and all 19 children!
Kel 2:10PM
How do I know when the shoe fits? Not rocket science Kel. Look at children in foster care, drug and alcohol addicts who produce children but don’t care for them, and people who foist their children on others to care for while they continue to reproduce. Spend some time working in an ER and I promise you will see exactly what I mean.
Well, they might have called my great grandmother a “breeder” too. She had nine kids and lost 5 of them. Its not the number of children Kel, its the care. A drug addicted junkie with a couple of kids may well be just a “breeder” while a woman with 10 children, who she cares for, is a loving parent.
Kel, the Duggars make their lives everyone’s business. Why are you commenting? Is it anymore your business than someone who is critical of them? Michelle has said that as soon as a new baby arrives the youngest gets foisted unto an older sibling to care for.
Sure makes it easy for mom. Helping mom care for a child is one thing, taking over the parental responsiblities of getting the child up, washed, dressed, fed, diapered, pottied and supervised so that mom can enjoy new babies, or whatever else, is quite another. I have no issue with homeschooling, I know any number of people who have.
I would have no clue about the love in the house, I don’t live there.
Kel 2:20PM
You posted and I responded. Unless Jill has changed the rules this isn’t an issue.
I’m not a population zealot or a radical environmentalist. Yes, a lot of what a family does is the people’s own business. However, the Duggars seem to have adopted a kind of contest mentality in getting Michelle pregnant every year. Many people are attracted to seeing how much or something similar about just anything and everything. There are at least 2 women vying to become “the fattest woman in the world” and are deliberately over-eating. Pornography features women having sex with 1 man after another for about a minute each so they can win the title of woman who had 100 or 200 or 400 or whatever number of men in a row. My brother told me about people trying to see if one could break wind louder than the last one.
Michelle Duggar appears to have gotten actually addicted to the state of being pregnant. The kids aren’t being brought up by adults but are bringing each other up. This sort of thing should not be glorified.
It reminds me somewhat of the polygynist Kody Brown, his 4 wives, and the 19th baby recently added to his plural family. The reasoning behind this form of marriage is that it means a lot of babies since one man can get woman after woman pregnant.
The Duggars are monogamous and so I have more respect for them than Kody & Co. However, the Duggars aren’t above criticism.
You posted and I responded. Unless Jill has changed the rules this isn’t an issue.
I posted, quoting Phillymiss’ comments. I didn’t say anything in regards to your comments whatsoever, so I found it strange that you would respond, since I addressed nothing that you said.
“My question is, is it really anyone else’s business?”
You’re right, we really should respect their privacy by not commenting on their lifestyle when they go on the Today Show to talk about it in front of millions of people. Nothing says “mind your own business” like doing an interview with Ann Curry.
“They’re being raised by a married mother and father. They’re also homeschooled.”
So? How is that support for your position that what the Duggar family does isn’t anyone else’s business (even when they’re starring on a cable reality TV show)? Maybe if they were being raised by a single parent, or a mother and a mother, or two dads, or they attended public school, it would suddenly become someone else’s business, in your opinion?
Mary: ”I work in a Catholic hospital and women here have tubals, hystectomies, and abortions, pregnancy inductions and premature C-sections when necessary to save their lives, as well as removal of ectopic pregnancies. Sounds like the Catholic church is no longer leaving it all up to God.”
Because you are witnessing these things in a Catholic hospital does not mean that Catholic teaching has changed. It means that the teachings are being disregarded.
It is a hard truth to accept that some women might die in giving life to children. It does not under any circumstances allow us to abort them, to use contraceptives, or to have any of the other procedures you mention.
If I were faced with a choice like that, of course I would be in anguish! Of course I would pray that my life would be spared and that my children would be cared for! But there are greater things than the concerns of this world.
There are people out there, women like Gianna Molla, who trust God and die. Yes, it is hard to understand. It’s the “foolishness” of faith that makes Christian living so radical and difficult.
But for those who truly believe that they must “consider that the sufferings of this present time are as nothing compared with the glory to be revealed for us” it is a way of life.
You may disagree, but allow people of faith to trust in God. Fully. Without reserve.
Kel,
As I said its a non issue.
I would have no clue about the love in the house, I don’t live there.
That’s right. You don’t. And you’ve just compared the Duggars, who are raising their large family as an independent married couple to drug addicts who don’t care for their kids and foist them upon the state.
I think that’s more than a tad unfair.
While I wouldn’t be able to raise that many children myself, I don’t take it upon myself to armchair diagnose the Duggars simply because they’ve chosen to have a very large family. Are you the same person who armchair diagnoses people you don’t know with narcissistic personality disorder and things of that nature? Maybe I’m thinking of someone else. I still don’t think it’s fair to judge this family strictly based on what it seen on their reality show.
Hi Denise Noe,
Very well stated.
I hope she has a good healthy pregnancy for her sake and for her baby’s sake.
Alot of y’all are being critical, busybody shrews. I am embarressed for many of you.
joan, if they didn’t have a national reality show, I highly doubt they would have announced this pregnancy to the world.
You don’t have respect for any life, joan, so I don’t expect positive comments from you on…well, anything.
But coming from people who are supposed to be pro-life, hearing terms like “breeder” are incredibly demeaning to women. Michelle Duggar is a human being and a mother. She doesn’t deserve to be talked about like that, especially not when she’s not whoring around with multiple men or letting the government take care of her kids. She’s a married woman who has a large family. Period.
Hi Cathy,
No Catholic teaching may not change, but we live in the 21st century where medical advances exist to give a woman another option to dying, one she didn’t have 100 years ago.
i worked with an african american woman back in 2000. she told me she had 13 siblings. i have one. i remarked “wow you sure did come from a large family.” of course i wasnt being rude. and mary i know you arent suggesting michelle should abort. i think a lot of us believe 20 kids is quite a bit. i look at things from both sides. cant help it. thats the libra in me.;)
Hi Kel,2:53
Please cool your jets and directly quote me comparing the Duggars to drug addicts.
Also, concerning love in their home, I have no idea and neither do you so let’s leave it there.
I’m not armchair diagnosing any more than you are Kel. I base my opinion on the information the Duggars have made public.
Hi heather,
I had relatives with large families. My neighborhood was full of them. The older siblings did not have parental responsiblities foisted on them. My sister helped care for me. But my parents were the parents, not her. I felt I had my sisters kids dumped on me to care for and bitterly resented it.
Hi Kel,2:53
Please cool your jets and directly quote me comparing the Duggars to drug addicts.
Your statement:
How do I know when the shoe fits? Not rocket science Kel. Look at children in foster care, drug and alcohol addicts who produce children but don’t care for them, and people who foist their children on others to care for while they continue to reproduce.
And as for cooling my jets… wow, Mary. I think the way you have spoken both to me and about Michelle Duggar says much about you.
I haven’t diagnosed Michelle Duggar with a mental illness, Mary. Feel free to do so, if that gives you a feeling of superiority. Have a nice afternoon.
Mary – FYI, Gianna Molla died in 1962, not “100 years ago.”
Lots of things exist in the 21st century, but that doesn’t change what’s right.
Uh Kel,
That’s not a comparison to drug addicts. Please, specify where I name the Duggars and directly compare them to drug addicts.
How I’ve spoken to you? I expressed an opinion about Michelle that people can take or leave. Excuse me if I don’t see this woman as a candidate for sainthood.
Please directly quote me as saying Michelle has a mental illness. Oh a pregnancy/birth junkie. Well there are people who are food junkies, adrenalin junkies, love junkies,etc. that would hardly be considered mentally ill. They have an intense physical and emotional need that can put them in danger and cause them to completely disregard all else. Sound familar?
“It is a hard truth to accept that some women might die in giving life to children. It does not under any circumstances allow us to abort them, to use contraceptives, or to have any of the other procedures you mention.”
It’s not a truth that has to be accepted. Countries like Afghanistan have some of the highest fertility and maternal mortality rates in the world. Contraception can help women avert unwanted pregnancies that might kill them in the absence of quality medical care. Even in developed countries, contraception can help women avoid high-risk pregnancies. Simply saying “Just don’t have sex!” is a pretty useless piece of advice.
“Mary – FYI, Gianna Molla died in 1962, not 100 years ago.'”
Great for Gianna Molla. Her body, her choice. But canonizing the woman sets up the expectation that women should make that particular choice, that they should die rather than accept a life-saving intervention. I’m glad that you’re so proud of the Church’s regressive stance on women’s health, Cathy. How empowering.
Cathy.
Believe me, where the medical field is concerned 1962 might well be considered 100 years ago. However I stand corrected.
Exactly what did Gianna die of?
Being our hospital is run by an order of nuns, I can only assume they would run it according to church teaching.
Mary, pregnancy isn’t a disease so these “medical advances” that you’ve mentioned (abortion, birth control, tubals, hysterectomies) shouldn’t be viewed as such in regards to dealing with another pregnancy. Is it great that we have excellent NICU’s and good prenatal care now? Sure, that’s awesome and has saved many lives, but so has penicillin. Pregnancy isn’t a disease and to trust that God will see a woman and child through takes a lot of faith.
God bless the Duggar family. I am about to have my sixth child and I can fully understand what it’s like to have an older child watch a younger while mom rests or gets dinner ready. Some people that don’t come from large families or have large families of their own tend to misunderstand this. We’re not foisting our youngest on our oldest. My oldest doesn’t need my help to go to the bathroom any more. She doesn’t need help to make a sandwich anymore. She’s quite capable of doing things for herself, so having so many kids isn’t so daunting when you get realistic about the fact that not all your kids NEED mom and dad ALL the time EVERY day all day. (besides, anyone with a teen knows this too)
Mary – it’s not against Catholic teaching to have a hysterectomy (for a valid medical reason), nor is it against Catholic teaching to induce labor or have an emergency C-section to deliver a child (even prior to viability) if the mom’s life is in danger. A salpingectomy is also considered a valid treatment for ectopic pregnancies.
Basically, “there can be no direct attack on the child (direct abortion) to save the life of the mother. On the other hand, the life of the mother is equally valuable and she must receive appropriate treatment. It might be that the only available remedy saves the life of the mother but, while not a direct abortion, brings about the unintended effect of the death of the child. Morally speaking, in saving the life of the mother, the Church accepts that the child might be lost.” (source) You are right that a Catholic hospital should not be performing tubal ligations, but sadly many bishops lack the spine to enforce this.
For someone who allegedly works at a Catholic hospital, you have a very poor understanding about what Catholic moral teaching is regarding medical procedures in complicated pregnancies.
Also, I have four children — three born and one unborn. I ask my son and daughter to help me with their little sister, and I’ll expect all 3 to help me out once their new sibling arrives. Am I a terrible mother, too? Should I make sure my kids sit on the couch all day eating candy and watching cartoons so as not to tax their poor little bodies with any responsibility whatsoever? Frankly, I’d rather raise my children to be responsible adults and contributing citizens instead of OWS protesters.
Megan – faith in God is extraordinarily empowering! :)
Mary – here’s some info on Blessed Gianna: http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20040516_beretta-molla_en.html
Orders of nuns do lots of zany things. But the Church teaching is very clear. I really aware that they way of life I’m proposing is radical, honestly. I don’t expect many to live this way. But those who chose to deserve to be respected, right?
One thing I want to add is that while I don’t think what the Duggars are doing is good, I would not refer to a woman who has given birth — regardless of how many times or under what circumstances — as a “breeder” or by any other demeaning term.
Megan, Afghanistan is a Muslim country. And in case you haven’t noticed, they take their religious beliefs rather seriously. contraception and abortion are big no no’s, thus our medical teams going over there to teach them good prenatal and post natal care. It’ll improve as long as the Taliban don’t regain control because women need to be seen by female docs (Afghan/Muslim custom) and thus more women will become docs/nurses.
Joanna – great clarification on Church teaching.
And it’s funny, if you knew me in person you’d be surprised how normal and modern I am. I have an advanced degree and a career and everything! :)
Uh Kel,
That’s not a comparison to drug addicts.
I think your quote speaks for itself.
How I’ve spoken to you? I expressed an opinion about Michelle that people can take or leave.
Please re-read how you’ve addressed me and tell me if you believe I’m 5 years old and deserve to be spoken to as if I am.
Excuse me if I don’t see this woman as a candidate for sainthood.
I am not Catholic, and I don’t really care if she’s a candidate for anything.
Please directly quote me as saying Michelle has a mental illness. Oh a pregnancy/birth junkie. Well there are people who are food junkies, adrenalin junkies, love junkies,etc. that would hardly be considered mentally ill. They have an intense physical and emotional need that can put them in danger and cause them to completely disregard all else. Sound familar?
LOL – well, I guess you’re not armchair diagnosing her with a mental illness or anything… *cough*
Joanna: Also, I have four children — three born and one unborn. I ask my son and daughter to help me with their little sister, and I’ll expect all 3 to help me out once their new sibling arrives. Am I a terrible mother, too? Should I make sure my kids sit on the couch all day eating candy and watching cartoons so as not to tax their poor little bodies with any responsibility whatsoever? Frankly, I’d rather raise my children to be responsible adults and contributing citizens
?
Heh. What a concept.
The Duggars have the right to have as many children as they like. It is their choice.
Since they have decided to make a television show about their family, and discuss their choices in front of millions of people, we all have the right to an opinion about how they choose to run their family. Saying “It’s none of our business how many children they have” is pretty silly at this point. They have made their family everyone’s business!
Personally, I couldn’t care less about how big or small anyone’s family is. I don’t care if a couple has 30 children or decides to remain childless, as long as the children are cared for and no one is abused. Every family is different. My father had 11 brothers and sisters and it was an awful situation. They were extremely poor and ignored by their parents, for the most part. My aunts resent very deeply having to spend their childhoods caring for their siblings, and only had one or two children of their own apiece. My mom is one of 8 children and had a much happier childhood. Every family is different.
First of all, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the use of the word “breeder.” This was a very poor choice of words.
Mary – The Duggars might trust in God but they apparently have no problem with a little human intervention in the form of high risk maternity care, NICUs, specialists, C-sections, etc.
Mary, I agree 100 percent with you. We keep on hearing that the Duggars do not rely on any kind of government assistance, but Jim Bob was a state legislator and his health care and that of his family is paid for by the people of Arkansas. I am sure that their last high-risk pregnancy cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and this one will too. Also, they declared that their home is a church and they do not pay federal income taxes.
I’m not a population zealot or a radical environmentalist.
Neither am I. Many prolifers get angry when someone mentions that the earth has a limited ability to support life, but this does not change the fact that it does. We must think of the carbon footprint we are leaving. Anyone who has been on this board knows that I am strongly prolife, and to me, part of being prolife means being a good steward of the earth. I do not wish this family any harm, but I think it is selfish and irresponsible to have huge families like this in a world of finite resources.
Phillymiss, if you think the Duggars are selfish, then I am not sure the term “prolife” applies to you.
They are taking care of their own. If you disagree with the tax law in Arkansas. then fight that battle there.
But please, reconsider your attitude that all those Duggar children are going to drag down the earth with their mere presence. All of their children are wanted and loved and cared for AND brought up to love the Lord–that means something in today’s world.
I think the Duggars are a force for good. They can show the world how a family can operate successfully.
This is hard on me to hear today, as I just found out today that I’m NOT pregnant. I SO thought I was, and have been praying SO hard. So has my husband, so has our little girl. Those of you that do…say a little prayer for me today. THANK YOU in advance.
my understanding is that they do pay personal income taxes , just not property taxes because they declared their house a church .
I’m so sorry, Pamela.
Praying for you.
Dirtdartwife, 3:24PM
Pregnancy is not a disease but can pose a serious risk to a woman’s life. It wasn’t uncommon for women to die in childbirth. Very tragically I saw it happen not too long ago. The delivery room looked like a slaughterhouse.
Advances in the treatment of preeclampsia, c-section surgery, ectopic pregnancy, antibiotics, better prenatal care, etc. have certainly given us a huge advantage over our mothers and grandmothers, but women still have complications that can be debilitating or fatal, one of them being the severe second trimester preeclampsis suffered by Michelle. A severe uterine infection unresponsive to antibiotics may necessitate the tragic decision to induce the woman early in pregnancy, fatal to the fetus.
As I said DDW, having older children help with younger ones is one thing, foisting the toddlers on older siblings to care for to free mom up to reproduce and enjoy a new baby is another. How about the mother being the parent?
Carbon footprint?
I guess you missed the episode where the Duggars addressed that. Since they are criticized for that all the time.
They make their own laundry soap. They shop at Good Will and I watched them purchase at least 30 pairs of USED shoes. The girls perm each other’s hair. Their home has wood burning stoves and they chop the wood themselves. They have their own vegetable garden. They are debt free.
I think to them the legacy of hundreds and hundreds of grandchildren and great grandchildren is more important!!!
Just thinking about growing up in my home: 3 kids in a big house and we all fled to our own rooms and bathrooms and we never had to talk to each other and we never had to rely upon each other. And you know what? We still don’t.
I like the idea of that big house full of all those kids and parents and they just fuss on and love each other.
Not silent as a tomb like mine.
Basically, a church must conform to the following guidelines, at a minimum, for the IRS to even consider it:
Distinct legal existence
Recognized creed and form of worship
Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
Formal code of doctrine and discipline
Distinct religious history
Membership not associated with any other church or denomination
Organization of ordained ministers
Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study
Literature of its own
Established places of workshop
Regular congregations
Regular religious services
Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young
Schools for the preparation of its members
it’s not like it is all that easy to just willy nilly say my house is a church for tax exemption .
Joanna 3:27PM
I beg your pardon Joanna but I have a very good moral understanding. I can remember when a woman needed permission from a priest to get a hysterectomy. I have absolutely no moral qualms about tubals and definitely hope the church changes its stance on that.
Expecially when its a young woman pregnant for the 6th time who was sitting in the bar when her tube ruptured while her other kids were home unattended and no telephone. Thankfully it was the last tube. Her surgical risk was increased by a belly full of booze and heavy cigarette smoking.
As for teaching responsibility to your kids, go for it. Where did I say children should have no responsiblities. I said they should not take over a parent’s responsiblities.
Courtnay,
We have a lot in common. I was the middle of 3 daughters. We raised ourselves and hated each other and were never friends. Still aren’t.
The Duggars love and respect and help each other. The kids are friends!! I enjoy watching that immensely!!
@ pamela. i am so very sorry but dont give up cuz its coming:) prayers with you and your family. i also thanked you on another thread when i asked you about breast cancer and my friend finding that lump…….and @ mary as you pointed out years back if we were all in lock step here things could get pretty boring. point taken tonight. lets take sister wives. i dont agree with a man having 4 wives but im glad they arent choosing abortion. perhaps some will disagree with me on this issue.
mary , maybe we should just reinstate a nation wide eugenics program .
Kel 3:35PM
If how I addressed you was offensive, I sincerely apologize. All too often how we come across on the internet is not how we intend.
You still haven’t told me what mental illness I supposedly diagnosed Michelle with.
Carla, I am the middle child as well! We were taught to turn on each other. All 3 of us had eating disorders. Thank goodness God blessed me with a man with a close family.
kim jacobson 4:57PM
Say what??
Hi Cathy,
I just read about Gianna. Again, we’re talking a different era and level of medical care.
What was the standard of care where she lived? Lots of factors but I respect your beliefs and perspective.
Hi Carla, 4:43PM
Carbon footprint is a crock. I hope the Duggars don’t address that nonsense.
I greatly respect you and we perceive things differently concerning the Duggars.
Myself, since I don’t live in the Duggar home so as far as I’m concerned I have no clue what really goes on, good or bad. None of us do. We only know about people’s lives what they want us to know, or when the cameras are rolling.
mary, you keep bringing up cases of women who you are describing as unfit parents . women who could have chosen to be sterilized if they had wanted too . there is not much we can do about the fact that they keep getting pregnant . unless of course we reinstate a national eugenics program , so we can have much wiser people force sterilization on them . you know like we use too.
Hi Carla,
BTW I also came from a family of three, me being the baby. Pretty dysfunctional family and we all had responsiblity put on us early. My sister was less than thrilled to look after me and often chased me with the dog leash if I mouthed off, which I usually did. My brother and sister thought it was fun to lower me down the stairs head first. I thought it was fun too, come to think of it!
Dear Pamela, I do pray for you and other women like you who have experienced such disappointment and even loss. This was a comforting passage/lesson for me after my third loss, and as far as I’m concerned finding out you’re not preg. when you thought you were can FEEL the same as a loss at the time (since I too experienced the pain of secondary infertility);
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! Mathew 7:9-11
This is not a betrayal or a “stone”. Our Father deeply loves us and only gives us good things! If we love Him, we must Trust Him. What we think is a stone is truly bread in disguise! A blessing! Even bread that is hard as a stone and hard to swallow is still good for us. I’ve found that adding a little (living) water to even the hardest bread will soften it in no time ;) I pray that God will give you your heart child to hold soon. <3 In His Love – TheChristianHippie <3
Kim,
I wouldn’t have chosen to sterilize them if I could, I just wasn’t upset she was rendered infertile. As far as I was concerned she wasn’t fit to raise a litter of cats. Now don’t tell me you have never encountered someone who is a totally unfit parent.
Pamela 4:35PM
I am sincerely sorry for you. This must be such a heartbreak and disappointment. My thoughts and best wishes are with you and your family.
Thank you all (again) for your prayers and words of encouragement.
I needed that today. HUGS and BLESSINGS! :D
Mary, I can’t even take what you’re saying seriously. Because what you’re saying is that a woman who doesn’t agree to sterilize herself or use contraception (against her faith or just from personal preference) once she has what you consider “enough” children, is a bad mother to her children.
What is so horrible about older children accepting parenting responsibilities. I don’t have a big family but when I was an older teenager I was left in charge of my little sister while my parents were out of town. I had access to other adults if needed and I’m sure the Duggars do too (their older MARRIED brother comes to mind). I don’t know what’s wrong with them going on a mission and leaving their nearly adult children in charge for a short period of time. I don’t buy into this notion that children need to have some unburdened life without any real responsibility. I have friends who grew up on farms and they had major family responsibilities in terms of what needed to be done. Those responsibilities often included childcare if the parents were working. That’s how families should be – shared work and responsibility. Yes, the parents should have the most responsibility, but occasionally delegating appropriate responsibility to older children is a benefit, not a harm. So give me a break.
20 children might not be right for all, but they’re doing a great job and I wish them well.
Carbon footprint is a crock.
Say what?
I think to them the legacy of hundreds and hundreds of grandchildren and great grandchildren is more important!!!
Isn’t it possible to be happy with just a few?
Phillymiss, if you think the Duggars are selfish, then I am not sure the term “prolife” applies to you.
Hmm — I was arrested at a rescue, lost a job or two over my prolife activities, am an adoptive mom, and I can’t wait to get out of the agency I work for because they pay for late-trimester abortions on minors. If my prolife creds aren’t good enough for you, well that’s just too bad.
I’m sorry, but I think these Quiverful people are nuts. The biblical commandment to “be fruitful and multiply” was made CENTURIES ago. The world has more than enough people to support, and this does NOT mean that I am a zero population type extremist.
Courtenay and Carla, I’m the middle of three girls as well!
I guess I was lucky growing up – my sisters were my absolute best friends. We don’t live close to each other today (I stayed in NYC, younger sister is near Boston, older sister is in Vegas) and I currently am struggling to deal with my older sister because I think she’s making careless and downright selfish decisions, but we are still each other’s primary support system, biggest cheerleaders, and fiercest defenders.
I have no strong feelings on Michelle Duggar’s pregnancy. I do think there is a difference between having kids take on responsibility, and having kids take on PARENTAL responsibility – but I have never seen the show or met the family so I am not qualified to comment on how they do it. I have heard that each young child is paired up with an older sibling buddy, who is responsible for most of the care and discipline or whatever, and I don’t necessarily like the idea of that. When my mother was young, her family was like that too – except each of the girls (there were five) were expected to look after one of their (five) brothers. She hated essentially being her brother’s caretaker, and she felt like a slave; but they were also very close in age so it was a different dynamic, I suppose.
But I do like that big families tend to make do with fewer resources per person. I think we have such a skewed perception of what life is, these days. Even though my family was not big, we rarely all three had our own bedrooms (being the middle kid, I was usually one of the two sharing). We all wore mostly hand-me-downs until we could afford to buy our own clothes. We were fortunate, so we took awesome educational vacations and went to the ballet and symphony a lot, but the “everyday” standard of living was nowhere near what so many people seem to think of as the “default.” I think that’s a happier and healthier way to live, regardless of how many people are in the house.
i have disagreed with carla a few times denise noe reality megan doug hal and a few more but i always hope not to come across as mean……and who could forget laura (shhh) but we can always get back on track and debate again. id be pretty bored over at pandagon or femenisting where everyone must agree or get booted. and i dont mean you laura loo.
“Great for Gianna Molla. Her body, her choice. But canonizing the woman sets up the expectation that women should make that particular choice, that they should die rather than accept a life-saving intervention.”
A story of someone choosing to die for someone else is obviously more inspiring than a story of someone choosing not to die for someone else, even though that is not immoral. The Church has numerous saints who gave up their lives for born people too. Did the canonization of Maximillian Kolbe “set up the expectation that people should make that particular choice”? They both laid down their lives for someone else when they were not morally required to…hence they are SAINTS and the large majority of us (practicing Catholics) never will be.
Children are a gift from the LORD; they are a reward from him..
Psalm 127:3
Ok Prolifers, Can we at least agree that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those children is a miracle? Every single one is a blessing?
Phillymiss,
The Duggars already have two grandchildren ODDS are they will have puhlenty. And THAT is a legacy to be proud of. Not how small of a carbon footprint I leave behind. I hope my great grandkids don’t say, “Yeah good ol great grandma Carla. She left the smallest carbon footprint!!!”
Mary,
You can’t make up the love on their faces or the joy they have in being together. I respect you too but time for me to let this one go. :)
yes carla i can agree!:) and there will still be times when some of us will agree to disagree. ~nuff said.
CT 5:26PM
I never said any such thing. What are you talking about?
I pointed out the woman in the bar who blew out an ectopic pregnancy, but for some reason I don’t think its faith that kept her from using contraception. I think a woman of faith would be home with her children.
Foisting parental responsibilities on young children, some of them not much older than 6 or 7 years old so mom can be freed up to enjoy her pregnancies and new babies is what I have a problem with. Leaving a high risk infant in the care of a sibling barely out of her teens while mom and dad leave the country is another thing I have a problem with. When the child becomes ill and seizures (that must have been terrifying for Jill) and all mom and dad do is snivel about how helpless they feel and mom prays on the phone while Jill cradles an obviously very ill child. That’s what I have a problem with CT.
Heck, when I was nine years old I cared for my invalid grandfather, making sure he ate, went to the bathroom, and was safely situated before I returned to school after lunch. I was in the 4th grade. Didn’t kill me. I’m all for children being given responsiblities.
mary , of course i have , some more un fit than others . but what is really unfit ? i mean we started out talking about the duggars , and now your talking about a woman pregnant and drinking at a bar with children left home alone . thats not even apples and oranges , thats like apples and liver .
Hi Carla,
Yes children are a gift, but also a responsibility. The parents’ responsibility
Kim,
Somehow the discussion on Catholic hospitals got to this.
mary , ahh yes , i do believe you are correct . there sure has been a lot to keep track of here today .
im not trying to derail the thread but i gotta let you guys that conan ( a self proclaimed catholic) just sold hiself out the other night and married 2 gay men. my father brother and i all went to a catholic church! bye bye conan. you sold your soul for ratings!
“I can remember when a woman needed permission from a priest to get a hysterectomy.”
Thanks for proving my point, Mary. You remain misinformed. The Church does not require a woman to get permission from a priest for a hysterectomy. She is certainly recommended to do so – as well as seeking advice from faithful Catholic medical professionals – but it is not required. A hysterectomy for purely contraceptive purposes is considered a sin, but it is not sinful to get a hysterectomy for legitimate medical reasons (e.g., uterine cancer or severe fibroids).
As to your second anecdote, I have no idea why it’s relevant. Had that woman been following Catholic teaching regarding not having irresponsible sex and not neglecting children, she probably wouldn’t have been in such a precarious situation to begin with.
no comments necessary just an fyi !!!!
Joanna,
You seem to have misread my post. I am well aware of the fact a woman does not need permission for a hysterectomy. I was pointing out that things have changed as I remember an era, likely before your time, when she did. My cousin was one such woman who had to obtain permission.
I have never seen a hysterectomy done for contraception, though I’m sure its happened. A tubal is much simpler and less invasive.
As for the anecdote, what one are you referring to and what is your question about it?
See what happens without proper sex education! ;-)
Seriously, congrats to them. They have found joy in their choice.
Well, folks, I guess we are going to agree to disagree on this one. I’ve been reading some comments about this subject on other websites and some are really awful, saying that they hope she miscarries, or gets killed in a car accident, etc., or should be forcibly aborted or sterilized, things that I am totally opposed to.
Some of you may have heard about the North Carolina case, where thousands of women, mostly poor and largely of color, were forcibly sterilized:
http://againsttheirwill.journalnow.com/
It’s pretty long and quite depressing, but it’s worth reading.
.
Well anyway, good night!
I never said any such thing. What are you talking about?
You insinuate a couple times that she was being irresponsible to her other children by risking another pregnancy. Short of sterilization or contraception, what are you proposing she do about this so that she isn’t such a selfish mother?
Foisting parental responsibilities on young children, some of them not much older than 6 or 7 years old so mom can be freed up to enjoy her pregnancies and new babies is what I have a problem with.
Here’s what I got from wikipedia on the subject: “they help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day and help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that day and just all of those types of things.”
The horror! I was in charge of helping my sister get ready for school and I helped her with her homework too.
Leaving a high risk infant in the care of a sibling barely out of her teens while mom and dad leave the country is another thing I have a problem with.
Jill is 20 years old!! And she has even older siblings. It’s not like she was permanently in charge of the baby. Sometimes bad things happen – I came down with a viral infection that almost killed me when I was a baby. On the night the symptoms hit, my young parents happened to have left me in the care of their equally young friends while they went out for the evening. I’m sure it was terrifying for all involved, but those 22 yr old friends were no more qualified than Jill who is surrounded by resources including older siblings.
When the child becomes ill and seizures (that must have been terrifying for Jill) and all mom and dad do is snivel about how helpless they feel and mom prays on the phone while Jill cradles an obviously very ill child. That’s what I have a problem with CT.
Well they definitely should have come home as soon as possible. If they didn’t rush home, then I have an issue with this too.
CT 6:50PM
Like it or not, Michelle is at increased risk of another episode of severe pre-eclampsia.
I posted a study on another thread that this risk is significant. Short of sterilization of BC there isn’t much that can be done to prevent a pregnancy. I know mothers who have been sterilized so as to be alive and in good health to care for their children. One was a woman who had two bouts of severe preeclampsia as did Michelle, who had one. The other was a woman who suffered such severe post partum depression she was hospitalized.
Please that Wikipedia piece sounds like it was written for a story book. If you watched the earliest episodes of the show Michelle talked of her buddy system where she of course enjoys the new baby while older children get “buddies”i.e. their toddler and preschool siblings that are at a rather bothersome age. As soon as the new baby arrives, the youngest is dumped on an older sibling. The children, some not much older than 6 or 7, were getting younger siblings out of bed, dressing them, feeding them, helping them brush their teeth, toileting them, and supervising them for the day.
Sure my sister helped with me too, thought it was great fun, to a point. But my mother did the parenting.
Jill is 20 years old. She’s barely out of her teens. This is a high risk infant. I don’t care if she has older siblings, she was the one handling the crisis and from what I see she was alone in doing so. Maybe her older siblings had to watch all the other children while mom and dad went to El Salvador.
Your parents were out for the evening CT, they hadn’t left the country. They were available for an emergency, as parents should be! You were not a high risk infant with a history of extreme prematurity and medical problems, Josie is.
They should have come home? They never should have left. They displayed appallingly poor judgment. Maybe Michelle will figure out this is one toddler she can’t foist off on older siblings.
phillymiss thats awful. im quite sure nobody here would wish her dead. there were 4 kids bullied to death ( a possible 5th that is questionable) the high school is called mentor high and it grabbed national headlines because they were all so close together. one girl was pretty and from croatia. she was constantly bullied for her accent and she had a name like sligina. she was called slu**y jane and sl*ut gina. she received calls in the middle of the night at home from the bullies saying “dont show up for school in the morning or you will regret it. she was hit and pushed down a flight of stairs. shed finally had enough after her parents complaints to the school were ignored. she hung herself. her parents dressed her in a pink dress shed intended to wear to prom. the bullies showed up at her wake and began laughing and saying “she looks AWFUL”!!!!! umm shes dead! dont believe me? google mentor high school/suicides ohio. pro death society for sure
my point being that i shouldnt find it surprising. if teen girls can lol at the wake of a dead 16 year old in front of her family then i guess i shouldnt be surprised that many wish death on michelle sarah palin and trig or anyone.
@Heather — some people really hate this family, which is bizarre. Why take it so personally? While I don’t agree with their decision to have such a large family, I certainly don’t want them dead. There are some really nasty people in this world.
i know philymiss. that made me cry. her parents were just getting ready to yank her out of that suicide school and put her into home schooling. her best friend said that she did defend herself but just got tired and gave up. she said “no more.” “i cant.” and even after she was dead they still tormented her. a lawsuit against the school is pending. i hope they win big!
and the palin family is also hated but thats because palin isnt the “bastions of tolerance” type of woman. she didnt kill trig.
I just love them!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45207374#45207374
I do not understand the utter hatred and disdain for them or the wishing such horrible things for the Duggar family!!
Like it or not, Michelle is at increased risk of another episode of severe pre-eclampsia.
So are you are are you not saying this woman SHOULD use birth control or be sterilized b/c getting pregnant is selfish. B/c it still sounds like that is exactly what you’re saying.
I posted a study on another thread that this risk is significant. Short of sterilization of BC there isn’t much that can be done to prevent a pregnancy. I know mothers who have been sterilized so as to be alive and in good health to care for their children. One was a woman who had two bouts of severe preeclampsia as did Michelle, who had one. The other was a woman who suffered such severe post partum depression she was hospitalized.
So are these the woman you would prefer be nominated for sainthood. These are selfless but Gianna Molla is not? Michelle Duggar is not? Don’t ask me what I’m talking about and then reiterate the exact thing I said. You think women who don’t use birth control or sterilize themselves once you deem they have enough children or you deem the risk to their health unacceptable are being selfish mothers.
Please that Wikipedia piece sounds like it was written for a story book. If you watched the earliest episodes of the show Michelle talked of her buddy system where she of course enjoys the new baby while older children get “buddies”i.e. their toddler and preschool siblings that are at a rather bothersome age.
Those are your words and your impressions. I watched the early episodes of the show. I was incredibly impressed with the way the family was organized.
Jill is 20 years old. She’s barely out of her teens. This is a high risk infant. I don’t care if she has older siblings, she was the one handling the crisis and from what I see she was alone in doing so.
So the rest of her life she’s surrounded by a large family but suddenly in crisis she’s rendered completely alone. Her other siblings disappear? From what you saw? What did you see that gave you such an incredibly close up view of internal family life.
They should have come home? They never should have left. They displayed appallingly poor judgment. Maybe Michelle will figure out this is one toddler she can’t foist off on older siblings.
Maybe poor judgment. But I’ve seen much poorer decisions from people I would criticize a lot less than what you’re hurling at this family. Also we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether parents can leave the country without young children in tow.
Two children or twenty – if it is done “as unto the Lord”, then who can find fault, and who will not gain blessing? I only see a gracious spirit in the Duggars, not judgement. We would do well to behave likewise. What a wonderful legacy – teaching your children to love new life!
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. ~ Paul the Apostle
“Many prolifers get angry when someone mentions that the earth has a limited ability to support life, but this does not change the fact that it does.”
Read the OT. It will inform you about who sustains the earth, and for how long.
The weird thing is that anyone even thinks about how many kids they have.
When was the last time you heard about J.S. Bach’s 20 children?
You likely never heard, because no one was all that surprised at it.
It is a non issue.
i dont hate the duggars at all. i dont hate gthe palins and i dont hate anyone on this blog. on that note….luv y’all and goodnight!:)
CT 8:52PM
I’m saying she’s at risk for another bout of severe preeclampsia. She also has 19 children who need a mother, one who may have special needs, and the risk of having severe preeclampsia is the risk of disability and death…and another premature child. You draw your own conclusions.
No I’m saying these women chose not to take any more unnecessary risks with their lives and health and being able to care for their children. Hardly makes them saints. Concerning Gianna Molla, what was the standard of care where she lived? This occured almost 50 years ago. Now would this have even been a problem? Lots of factors here.
No I don’t consider women taking risks as selfish. I’m pointing out that some want to make certain they survive to care for their children.
As for selfishness, Michelle’s fantasizing about another pregnancy while standing over the incubator of her critically ill newborn daughter is to me the ultimate in selfishness.
How about fixating on her critically ill daughter and her needs instead? How about focusing on the needs of her younger children who will be even more deprived of a mother’s attention because of Josie’s needs? She has been fixated on another pregnancy since Josie was born.
Well look at the video CT, where’s anyone else? She’s at the hospital alone. She’s rocking an obviously sick infant on oxygen alone while her mother prays on the phone and snivels about how helpless she and Jim Bob feel. It made me ill. I don’t see grandparents. I don’t see older siblings. At such a critical time where is everyone? Maybe her parents should be there, ya think?
If parents want to leave the country with young children in tow? Maybe there are situations where both parents shouldn’t leave. I would say this is one. If one wanted to go, fine. Maybe take turns.
The variety of responses here is all over the place. I’m surprised no one has commented on the number of unwed women out there who keep having children so they can collect more Aid for “Families” with Dependant Children. THOSE are the women that are “breeders”…not Mrs. Duggar. I see it all the time. Women with 5 and 6 (or more) kids, all from different fathers. Too lazy and unwilling to work and satisfied to just sit back and get handouts. Then the cycle repeats itself.
The Duggars aren’t sponging off anyone. They’re taking responsibility for the children they have created and following a tradition of large families from days gone by. Large families have always utilized the older children’s help in caring for the younger ones and looking after them…not necessarily “parenting’ them. Sometimes an older sibling CAN assume a “parent figure” role and no harm comes of it. The converse is also true, sometimes.
I come from a family of 8 children. I’m the 5th. 20 years age difference between the oldest and youngest. My older siblings helped raise me. I helped raise my younger siblings. We were NOT rich by any stretch of the imagination…not even close to it. Yes, we knew our parents loved us. Yes, it was “inconvenient” at times to watch after each other and sometimes we even resented it…briefly…but that’s what large families do. Did we all love each other? Yes. Do we all still keep close ? Yes. Did my (now deceased) parents insist that we work together as one and cherish each other? Yes. Was it easy ? No. But it worked.
Would I change any of it if I could ? Absolutely not.
More power to the Duggars. God bless all of them !
Seriously, congrats to them. They have found joy in their choice.
Reality, is that really you :)
Mary,
you sound a lot more angry then genuinely concerned about the health of the mother and baby. Sorry you are having a bad day.
God bless all of the Duggars. I’m happy for them. They have my prayers and best wishes for a healthy pregnancy and baby #20.
And even if something bad happens, it has nothing to do with how many kids they have. They didn’t ask for Josie to be born premature just by having 18 kids ahead of her. They take good care of Mrs. Duggar and she was well cared for when she was sick. Instead of pointing fingers at her and saying nasty things, maybe you should look for a pregnant woman in your community who doesn’t have anybody taking care of her, and help the lady out in honor of Mrs. Duggar.
As for Jill being left alone with baby Josie, Jill is 20, old enough to vote and join the military. It’s been a while since I’ve been able to watch the show, but I distinctly remember her and Jana joining the fire department (because they sewed fire pants into “fire skirts”!) and learning how to give emergency medical care. The parents didn’t just leave Josie with any older sibling, or “dump” her on Jill by any means. They placed Josie in the care of an adult who is qualified to handle emergencies. When the emergency happened, it was handled appropriately. What more could the Duggar parents have done if they had been there?
The Duggars are good parents who love their kids and look after them. What right does anyone have to tell them how many is too much? Especially people who rush to judge without all the facts?
This is one of those times when the phrase: “You’re just jealous!” is absolutely true. Large families are not as common anymore. Have any of you Duggar scolds acturally seen the show? “The more the merrier” is truly how they live.
I’m glad to be the eldest of six. Even so, I’m a little jealous of them too!
Family size is no indicator of whether the children are well cared for. I was the youngest of six and my parents were horribly abusive. My wife is an only child and had a wonderful childhood, and is still close to her parents. I know large families that have well-cared for kids, and abusive and neglectful small families. You literally can judge nothing about family dynamics based on how many kids they have.
This judgment and harshness towards the Duggars seems unfounded. I don’t personally think it’s a good idea to have so many kids, but they are fed, clothed, safe, and loved. It’s no one’s business how they set up their family.
Cathy, do you seriously think women should have to die in childbirth rather than prevent pregnancy? Hope your way of thinking never makes the laws where my wife and daughter live.
Jack,
I ‘liked’ your comment above but without the last thought.
Cathy, do you seriously think women should have to die in childbirth rather than prevent pregnancy? Hope your way of thinking never makes the laws where my wife and daughter live.
I don’t think Cathy said that. You probably misunderstood. ;)
Aye, there’s the rub truthseeker. I did say that.
I’m pro-birth
pro-adoption
pro-abortion
pro-choice
The lies, misinformation and misrepresentations about 99.99% of pro-choicers by many anti-choicers is what sometimes causes anti-choicers to go too far in their rhetoric and exclamations and actually harm their cause.
There is nothing more joyful than a happy family with a houseful of kids. I have 11 and have never regretted it. Their souls will live for all eternity to glorify God and, hopefully, share in eternal happiness. God bless the Duggars and all the large Christian families in this world. They are God’s answer to the suffocating selfishness that blights the world today.
Hi truthseeker,
No I am not the least bit angry, sorry if I come across that way. I was angered about the El Salvador situation, yes. I remain convinced that MIchelle has been more focused on another pregnancy than she has anything else, to her detriment and that of her family and I believe some posters here need to take off their rose colored glasses.
Do I wish the Duggars ill? Not at all. I wish them a healthy baby and uneventful pregnancy. However, I’m sad to say I see a woman obsessed with pregnancy first and foremost, and this need is fed by media attention and idolizing by the public.
Clarice,
Yes Jill is old enough to vote and join the military. So is an 18 y/o. That does not prove one capable of caring for a high risk child, or any child. That does not prove one is a responsible adult. There was an emergency and it was appropriately handled, we think. How did it progress to that point? We don’t know. Did Jill not see the danger signs? Again we don’t know. I remain convinced the Duggars showed appallingly poor judgment.
Everyone else: I have no issue with large families, my mother desperately wanted one and I wanted more siblings. I have no problem with siblings helping each other and their parents. I have no problem with children having resposiblities. I have no issue with homeschooling. I have an issue where pregnancy itself is the focus and goal and small children are responsible for the care of siblings just to make it easier for a mother who is focused on the next pregnancy. I have an issue with a mother standing over her critically ill child fantasizing about another pregnancy. I have a problem with a mother only too willing to risk another premature child(Michelle’s words not mine) with no thought to what the child may endure or what hardship this will put on her other children. Put simply, I have a problem with someone so focused on their own need, and I am convinced Michelle has a true physical and emotional need to be pregnant, that they are oblivious to all else.
People can become addicted to just about anything and everything. Michelle Duggar is addicted to pregnancy.
She’s not the first woman to have this addiction. I’ve heard of other women who feel “hollow” when they are not pregnant and crave the pregnancy to feel “filled.”
As for those unmarried women on welfare, they are not “breeders” either. They are mothers. However, they are not mothers under the best of circumstances. We should encourage them to marry for the sake of their children — at least, if there is the opportunity to marry men who are good, loving, and stable.
Denise Noe,
‘Addicted’ to pregnancy. She has shown no symptoms of an addict in this regard. She already said she was content with what she had but would accept another. Does that sound like an addict to you. Do the addicts you know really go around satisfied without more drugs but they will accept another hit if they happen upon one? Your logic is absurd and your listening skills are wanting. If anything she is ‘addicted’ to “being a loving and nurturing person”. If you want to hold that against someone then where does that place you as a person. She even said that having her grandchildren around filled her with enough joy that she did not miss ‘not being pregnant’ over the past year. Quit being so prejudiced and listen to her words and quit spreading msinformation and lies about this beautiful woman. Jealous much?
Mary,
Peace. We can chalk it up to a bad day.
Aye, there’s the rub truthseeker. I did say that.
I’m pro-birth
pro-adoption
pro-abortion
pro-choice
Reality,
Where does your pro-choice draw its lines? Do you place any limits on it at all; either legal or moral?
ts 10:04am
Not a bad day at all my friend. I stand by everything I said.
I am convinced Michelle has a true physical and emotional need to be pregnant, that they are oblivious to all else.
Mary,
Then you need to take your blinders off. I’ll post to you what I just posted to Denise and you can respond. Either you didn’t watch the same video I watched or you chose an irrational disregard for this woman’s words.
She has shown no symptoms of a NEED in this regard. She already said she was content with the children she has but would accept another. Does that sound like a person with a true physical and emotional NEED to you? If anything her words show a ‘NEED’ to “being a loving and nurturing person”. If you want to hold that against someone then where does that place you as a person. She even said that having her grandchildren around filled her with enough joy that she did not miss ‘not being pregnant’ over the past year. Quit being so prejudiced and listen to her words and quit spreading msinformation and lies about this beautiful woman.
Foisting parental responsibilities on young children, some of them not much older than 6 or 7 years old so mom can be freed up to enjoy her pregnancies and new babies is what I have a problem with.
I have had multiple children. And having them close in age (say 6 and 4) so they have a playmate to keep each other occupied and give mom some time with a newborn is WRONG in your eyes? And don’t be overly dramatic and compare that to Michelle having her 6 year old ‘raise’ her youngest kids for her. The family unit has worked that way for ages and it works great that way.
Aw, Pamela. :( I’m so sorry.
If how I addressed you was offensive, I sincerely apologize. All too often how we come across on the internet is not how we intend.
Yeah, I guess when you told me to “cool my jets” you meant it in a really sweet, non-offensive sort of way. But thanks.
You still haven’t told me what mental illness I supposedly diagnosed Michelle with.
You said:
Oh a pregnancy/birth junkie. Well there are people who are food junkies, adrenalin junkies, love junkies,etc. that would hardly be considered mentally ill. They have an intense physical and emotional need that can put them in danger and cause them to completely disregard all else. Sound familar?
If you look up things like you described here, it puts them in the realm of addictive disorders. So, what you’re saying is, Michelle is a “pregnancy/birth junkie?” You believe she is addicted to pregnancy and birth?
I notice that with CT’s posts, you also denied that you said what you said, all the while REITERATING what you said (the same as you did in what I quoted). To say the least, it’s confusing. So, if you weren’t saying Michelle has a mental illness, I’m really not sure how to read your comments, I suppose.
Not a bad day at all my friend. I stand by everything I said.
I agree with much of what you say, Mary, and if that makes me a mean ol’ jealous not-really-prolifer, then so be it. I also stand by my comments that is irresponsible to have double digit families in a world with limited resources.
Everyone says how happy this family is, and maybe they are, but none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors when the cameras are off, do we? Remember, these reality shows are still scripted (which is why I don’t like them, they are fake, and at least IMO, boring). If anyone believes that reality shows are “real” — well, I have some nice oceanfront property in Arizona I can sell you.
I don’t know Michelle Duggar and I don’t know if she has a psychiatric disorder, but I wonder what will happen to her when she reaches menopause and is no longer able to have children? These Quiverfull women seem to think that their primary responsibility is to bear and raise children, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but what happens when the babies stop coming?
These Quiverfull women seem to think that their primary responsibility is to bear and raise children, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but what happens when the babies stop coming?
phillymiss, you are just basing your judgement of the Duggar’s upon your experiences and wether or not you could function like they do. That is not always a fair and accurate way to judge people; especialy when you openly admit that you do not know how they live. Most ‘quiverful’ women do some serious soul searching when they stop having their own kids. It is a cathartic situation more so because of the way it can change their relationship with their husbands then the fact that they do not have more children. I honestly see this being less of a stress for Michelle and her husband cause they will always have so many grandkids around that they won’t get a chance to even think about many of the typical things that ’empty nesters’ go through together.
phillymiss, you are just basing your judgement of the Duggar’s upon your experiences and wether or not you could function like they do.
ACTUALLY, I am basing this on what I’ve read about the Quiverfull philosophy, including stories from the women who have left it:
http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/11/08/maternal-martyr-michelle-duggar-willing-to-risk-life-for-baby-20/
And speaking of judging, I get tired of some prolifers judging others as not being not prolife enough because we may believe in birth control, or think that there IS overpopulation and it’s something that we should be concerned about, or don’t worship the Republican party and think that the Democrats may actually have a few good ideas. ”Judgment” is why I stopped going to church a long time ago.
Regarding being “jealous” of Michelle Duggar, as a severely handicapped person I’m envious of many people. However, I have no special envy of her.
Without glorifying or admiring the Duggar family, extreme behaviors are part of the human condition. There will always be people who will take things to extremes such as the person who grows hair until it falls past the feet, the person who gets tattooed from head to toe, and so on endlessly. The woman who has a baby every year may just be an example of extreme behavior that is inevitable.
Regarding being “jealous” of Michelle Duggar, as a severely handicapped person I’m envious of many people. However, I have no special envy of her.
I am glad to hear that Denise. I thought that might have been a part of the reason you attacked her the way you did. And I would agree with you that Michelle Dugar is an exteme person. Extremely beautiful.
”Judgment” is why I stopped going to church a long time ago.
You won’t be able to avoid judgement by avoiding church.
Truthseeker,
Do you realize that by your statement to Denise that Michelle did “not miss being pregnant” over the past year, you only shored up what Denise and I have maintained concerning a pregnancy addiction. What if someone says they haven’t missed smoking cigarettes for the past year. Would you not conclude they’d had a cigarette addiction and still do, only its under control, at least for the time being.
TS, please take your blinders off. Let me give you some unpleasant facts about the woman you think is such a bastion of nurturing.
1. She has said she’d be willing to risk another premature baby. Really? Well isn’t that big of her. Believe me TS, what you saw on “reality” TV of Josie in the NICU was highly sanitized. You didn’t see little Josie get needles stuck in her, endure surgery, endure continuous light and noise, get a tube put down her throat, restrained, and endure who knows what physical pain and discomfort. Michelle has a 60% chance of a recurrence of preeclampsia thus a 60% chance of another micropreemie baby subjected to the same situation as little Josie.
2. Pre eclampsia is the third most common cause of maternal death in this country. For every 100,000 babies born in the US, 790 women die of pre-eclampsia. Michelle is playing Russian roulette not only with her life and health but that of another infant. Also, what happens to her children if she is disabled by a stroke, kidney failure, or dies?
3. Michelle has been fixated on another pregnancy since Josie’s birth. Standing over Josie’s incubator Michelle could only fantasize about another possible pregnancy. This has left more than a few mothers of premature children aghast. Their focus was on their premature infant, possible future needs, their other children, as well as the immense physical and emotional strain for themselves and their families. One such mother said she would have belted anyone in the mouth who made mention of another pregnancy.
4. That’s another factor TS. What about the strain on her children? Oh sure for the cameras its all sweetness and light, but do these children really want and need this upheavel again? Wasn’t once enough? Has Michelle given this any thought? How about just being alive and healthy to care for her children?
5. The El Salvador incident which to me showed appallingly bad judgment and indifference. Josie is an infant with an extensive medical history. She was a micropreemie. These are children about which parents must be continually vigilant, however much they may be “thriving”. Didn’t Josie already make one emergency return to the hospital? Definitely NOT a child who should be left in the care of a sibling hardly out of her teens while mom and dad travel several thousand miles to El Salvador.
I work with a nurse who’s granddaughter was premature and required heart and abdominal surgery. Thankfully the child is “thriving” though there is now concern about her inability to gain weight. With these children its one issue or another. Though this is a nurse with several years experience TS she nonetheless was very apprehensive of just caring for the infant while the parents went to dinner and a movie for their anniversary!
Upon getting the news JimBob and Michelle only whined about their “helplessness”, oh and Michelle prayed over the phone as Jill rocked her obviously very ill sister. Maybe you wouldn’t be so freaking helpless folks if you were home with your daughter! This incident absolutely disgusted me.
You can draw your own conclusions TS.
Hi Phillymiss,
Always good to see you here and thank you for the support. We are definitely on the same page on this one.
Hi Kel,
Yes I maintain that Michelle is a pregnancy/birth junkie, or addict to be more appropriate.
That’s not calling someone mentally ill. People are addicted to cigarettes to the point of self destruction. They aren’t mentally ill, they’re addicted.
I’m convinced Michelle has a very real physical and emotional need for pregnancy to the point she will endanger her own life, that of another child, and will disregard the children she already has. By that I mean she will not concern herself with what demands another bout of preeclampsia or another premature child will affect her family or deprive her other children of her time and attention.
I know this offends a lot of sensibilities, but I will not back down on this.
TS 12:14,
“Playmates” don’t feed, dress, toilet, help brush the teeth of a younger sibling or supervise the child. These children aren’t exactly given a choice about a “playmate”. Soon as the new baby comes the youngest is the responsiblity of an older sibling. You call it what you want TS, I call it foisting parental responsiblities onto a child.
For truthseeker: I may have seemed to have attacked Michelle Duggar but I’m not really all that concerned with her and her family. There is a lot of variation in the world. I don’t consider what the Duggars are doing ideal or admirable but I’m aware that there are many children growing up in much, much worse situations. There are mothers who are criminal, psychotic and alcoholic raising children. I think it’s ill-advised to super-size a family but, as I wrote, extremes are part of the human condition.
Do you realize that by your statement to Denise that Michelle did “not miss being pregnant” over the past year, you only shored up what Denise and I have maintained concerning a pregnancy addiction.
Mary,
That was a typo to Denise. If you had read carefully you would have noticed I corrected it when I posted to you and said:
“She even said that having her grandchildren around filled her with enough joy that she did not miss ‘not being pregnant’ over the past year.”
How many children the Duggars have is their business, but what gets my goat is the way anti-choicers disingenuosly use this couple as a pretext to demand that all pregnant women give birth,no matter what the adverse circumstances . They say that they weren’t “punished” with children.
Of course not. They’re a married couple with the means to raise a large family. But many poor pregnant women aren’t in such favorable circumstances. It’s not only the mothers who are punished with children, but the children themselves when they grow up desperately poor,malnourished, poorly educated , abused,neglected, surrounded by drugs,crime and random violence and unable to ever find a decent job when they grow up.
Hi TS,
I had a typo as well. I meant she did not miss “not being pregnant”. Glad you caught it.
Again TS, if someone told you they “did not miss not smoking” for the past year, your conclusion would be what?
Sorry TS, but your statement, minus my typo, shores up what Denise Noe and I have said. Michelle is a pregnancy addict.
1. She has said she’d be willing to risk another premature baby. Really?
Yes really Mary. And who are you decide otherwise. After a miscarriage on my fifth where my baby died at five months in the womb I had a gynecologist tell me that any more pregnancies were not recommended. I told him to stuff it and changed doctors and had two more healthy babies since. So you get no sympathy from me on this one.
2. Pre eclampsia is the third most common cause of maternal death in this country.
Again Mary. Same as above.
3. Michelle has been fixated on another pregnancy since Josie’s birth.
Where did you learn your mind reading skills? Maybe you need to practice them some more because it contradicts what Michelle actually said herself on the Today show. Michelle said she was content with the children she has but would accept another. And she also said that having her grandchildren around filled her with enough joy that she did not miss ‘not being pregnant’ over the past year.
4. That’s another factor TS. What about the strain on her children?
Alert!! Approval from Mary is now a requirement before straining the size of your family beyond a number she sets for you. Criteria will include both the moral and financial status of the parents and sibling in the household being evaluated. You can earn credit for an extra child if you are willing to get rid of one dog and your fish tank.
5. The El Salvador incident
Sorry, I don’t have any knowledge of this incident.
Robert Berger says:
November 9, 2011 at 6:56 pm
How many children the Duggars have is their business, but what gets my goat is the way anti-choicers disingenuosly use this couple as a pretext to demand that all pregnant women give birth,no matter what the adverse circumstances . They say that they weren’t “punished” with children.Of course not. They’re a married couple with the means to raise a large family. But many poor pregnant women aren’t in such favorable circumstances. It’s not only the mothers who are punished with children, but the children themselves when they grow up desperately poor,malnourished, poorly educated , abused,neglected, surrounded by drugs,crime and random violence and unable to ever find a decent job when they grow up.
(Denise) I’m not sure it’s appropriate — ever — to describe pregnancy or babies as “punishments.” Pregnancy is a result or consequence. Babies are the way our species continues itself.
As far as poverty being a motive for abortion — or a reason for it to be legal — it might be more appropriate to address the reasons for poverty and see if it might be possible to ensure babies are born into situations that are financially stable.
I’ve often suggested a guaranteed annual income or a family allowance.
“Playmates” don’t feed, dress, toilet, help brush the teeth of a younger sibling or supervise the child.
Really Mary. You are diluting your point here. My year old she IS allowed to spread peanut butter on her brothers sandwiches and might even help him find his slippers or help him get a cup to rinse his mouth when he brushes his teeth sometimes ;) I could have agreed with you if you had just said that a six year old should not ‘supervise’ a four year old.
Hi TS,
I suspect I have really hit a nerve with you.
My very sincere sympathy to you on your miscarriage. However, in this case we are talking of a surviving baby and what she likely endured and what another premature baby would likely endure. I have a difficult time with a “nurturing” mother saying she would be willing to subject another child to this to satisfy her own need.
The willingness to risk one’s own life with no regard to anyone, including 19 children, one possibly with special needs, is the mark of an addict TS.
No mind reading skills TS. She said so herself. This woman is fantasizing about another pregnancy while standing over the child’s incubator. She has said she is willing to risk another premature birth. Draw your own conclusions. Again if someone said they did “not miss not injecting narcotics”, your conclusion would be what?
Concerning the strain on her children. Sorry TS you did not address that. Please do so.
Concerning the El Salvador incident, google “Josie Duggar seizure”. You may get a very rude awakening.
Mary to Kel
Please cool your jets and directly quote me comparing the Duggars to drug addicts.
Kel to Mary:
Your statement: How do I know when the shoe fits? Not rocket science Kel. Look at children in foster care, drug and alcohol addicts who produce children but don’t care for them, and people who foist their children on others to care for while they continue to reproduce.
Mary to truthseeker Nov 9th at 7:13 pm
“Michelle is a pregnancy addict.”
Mary, can I quote you on that. And if I can then does that mean Kel can quote you on that now too ;)
Well TS,
Look at the original episode. Children not much more than 5 or 6 years old were caring for younger siblings and their daily needs. This is Michelle’s “buddy system”. Of course the new baby is mom’s “buddy” and dumping the younger ones on older siblings sure makes it easy for mom.
Darn, sure wish I had thought of that when I had newborns.
TS 7:46PM
Please do.
My very sincere sympathy to you on your miscarriage. However, in this case we are talking of a surviving baby and what she likely endured and what another premature baby would likely endure.
You still don’t get it Mary. If my baby had been born premature and suffered and died and they told me they recommend no more kids I would have told them to stuff it too. Who are you to judge that premature baby’s life as not having been worth living in the first place. And I still would have followed it up with two healthy kids.
The willingness to risk one’s own life with no regard to anyone,
One too many doses of drama pill tonight Mary?
Hi TS,
I’m afraid you’re talking apples and oranges. The fact you had a premature child does not in itself put you at risk for another. It would depend on the circumstances of the premature birth. Was this an unknown cause, a fetal defect, a physical defect in your reproductive system, the result of preeclampsia? Maybe you would have followed it up with two healthy children. My husband’s sister did. They never did determine why her first child was premature.
Let’s say you have several children and a child who may yet have special needs. Perhaps it will be several years before you can be certain. BTW this child has spent several months in NICU and you’ve endured the physical and emotional stress this has caused on you and your children. Also, you are distressed at what your child has endured, i.e. tubes, needles, surgery,etc. You still must be ever vigilant that this child’s medical condition can change, and what demands this can put on you and your family.
Keep in mind other children and a husband demand your time and attention. I must add that you do not foist your children on older siblings to care for, you are the parent.
Would not all of these be factors in determining whether or not you would risk another pregnancy?
Let’s say another pregnancy could well pose a threat to you life and health, as well as that of your unborn child. You remember what your previous child endured being premature.
You remember how you were fortunate enough to survive and with no health issues like chronic hypertension, stroke, or kidney failure. You have children who need their mother, and a child who may have special needs. Would these factors influence your decision to have another baby?
Where did I make any judgment on a premature child’s life not having been worth living in the first place?
TS 9:13PM
Addiction is what it is TS and yes, these are people who will risk their own lives with no thought to the consequences, including to their own families.
“My husband’s sister did. They never did determine why her first child was premature.”
They said they thought it was genetic with my baby and wanted to do amniocentisis and run all kinds of labs etc. Like your husband’s sister; I said no thank you.
Where did I make any judgment on a premature child’s life not having been worth living in the first place?
You are using the fact that her next baby could be premature as a reason for her next pregnancy not to be worth it.
Hi TS,
All this happened to my husband’s sister before there were prenatal tests. Her pregnancy ran a normal course when she suddenly went into premature labor at 7 months. Thankfully the baby survived but tragically died in young adulthood in a motorcycle accident.
I am pointing out a risk prematurity and the fact the baby could suffer greatly because of prematurity. These little souls endure a great deal in the NICU. That isn’t to suggest their lives are not worth anything. It certainly is a factor to consider before becoming pregnant.
Extremes of human behavior will always exist. Perhaps what should be criticized is the TLC for showcasing super-sized families such as the Duggars, Kate Plus Eight — and worse, because it glamorizes polygyny — Sister Wives.
TLC can’t any longer be called “The Learning Channel.” Its programs aren’t designed to teach but to gawk at odd families and odd behaviors.
Mary,
I’ve read through this thread. My heart is praying for you. I’m not sure of your age, but I think you are from my parent’s generation. Thankfully, we have a new generation: a JPII generation. There are many, many young families, like mine, who are revitalizing the Church and love Her teachings. Youth are hungry for the Truth and families like the Duggars are a breath of fresh air…they are so trusting in God and His goodness.
Denise: TLC can’t any longer be called “The Learning Channel.” Its programs aren’t designed to teach but to gawk at odd families and odd behaviors.
No Doubt! Long ago, I watched it along with The History Channel, Discovery, etc., but now….feh…
Lullabye Mom,
You are very kind but I’m afraid your issue with me is that I give you some facts you don’t want to hear. Facts can be very unsettling and we tend to be angry at the messenger or pray for him/her.
Perhaps your prayers would be better directed to Michelle and her unborn child who she is putting at serious risk.
While the Duggars are so trusting of God they seem to think God needs help in carrying mother and child to term safely as Mrs.Duggar is seeing a high risk OB specialist. Not that I have an issue with this, I in fact think she is wise to to so. I just find it interesting that those who supposedly so trust in God as you say the Duggars do see the need for human intervention.
As I have said, my issue is not with large families or people of faith.
“I just find it interesting that those who supposedly so trust in God as you say the Duggars do see the need for human intervention.”
How is trusting in God contradictory to seeking human intervention? One could actually say that those who help others in whatever capacity are a “Godsend.” As far as the woman in the barroom, what does she have to do with the Duggars? They don’t behave that way, as far as we can tell. If the point is to bring this woman up as a means of criticizing the Catholic Church’s stance on bc or tubals, that’s a nonstarted as well. This woman sounds mentally ill and in need of compassion and assistance for sure. However, quite honestly I’m happy that the Church doesn’t tailor its teachings to accommodate the behavior of the mentally ill or chronically irresponsible.
I’m not sure people should be putting their kids on reality shows. I don’t really think it’s fair to the kids involved. I would definitely not have wanted all of the silly things I said/did as a child or teenager out there for the world to see and recorded for all posterity. And honestly, Michelle seems a little strange to me. Sorry if that’s uncharitable, but she does. I am only commenting on it because SHE has put herself out there as a public person.
That said…the fact that the Duggars are the target of so much outrage is to me a sign of sickness in our culture. They are actually everything that is RIGHT about the world, ie, two parents married to each other (evidently still crazy about each other to boot), raising their biological children with religious values. In a culture with so much indifference to the way kids are raised, ie, kids by multiple dads, divorce everywhere, mums and dads with live-in boyfriends, girlfriends, etc, the Duggars are the last people at whom we should be angry. In fact, I marvel at what great kids they seem to have raised/are raising. The Duggars do a better job with their little army than alot of parents do with 2 or 3.
Some facts for all of you:
1. Arkansas Property Tax records are available online. The Duggars have and do pay their property taxes on their home, and all their rental homes and other real estate.
2. Jill was left in the charge of Josie along with Jana and John David(her older siblings, who were 22 at the time) All three have been trained to be First Responders, and in fact when the two young ladies (Jill and Jana) called 911 for Josie, John David’s pager went off to alert him to the incident b/c he would have been called to the scene if it had not been his own home.
3. Mrs. Duggar has every right to have as many children as God sees fit to give her. Either you are pro life or not. Some people claim to be prolife, but all they really are is anti abortion.
Mrs P
“nonstarted”
oops, “nonstarter”
Mrs. P 1:34PM
Jana and John were also in charge.
Sorry Mrs. P, doesn’t wash. This is a medically fragile toddler who was a micropreemie that spent several months in the hospital and even made an emergency return after her intitial discharge.
NOT an infant who should be left in the care of older siblings while mom and dad travel to another country. Trained as first responders? So what? Apparently Josie was quite ill before anyone recognized the seriousness of the situation or she became ill very rapidly. That’s the thing with children like Josie, they can turn on a dime. That’s why they require constant vigilance by parents, no matter how much they seem to be thriving.
BTW Mrs. P., what in El Salvador was more important than Josie?
Joanne,
The woman in the bar had nothing to do with the Duggars, the discussion just drifted that way.
I find it interesting that people who say they so completely put their faith in God in when it come to reproducing think God needs a little help in getting mom and baby to term safely. This faith seems to be highly selective. Or is it just a means for Michelle to justify her need and desire to be pregnant?
I find it “interesting” that you think there’s something not quite right or honest about people who have faith in God availing themselves of professional health care. Do you find it odd that people of faith who have osteoarthritis get hip replacements? Or that religious people who have diabetes inject themselves with insulin? Again (as a nurse and as someone who has complete faith in God), I see no contradiction.
You keep talking also, Mary, of the horrible stuff that Josie has endured. She has suffered alot in her short life, no doubt, as do many infants who end up in NICUs. We could ask some of these infants, once they’ve grown up a bit, if they would preferred not to have been born. I’m guessing they’ll answer no.
Hi Joanne,
I have said I have no issue with the Duggars seeking medical care. In fact I think it wise of them to do so.
I just find it an interesting dichotomy. They supposedly leave all conception in God’s hands, and give themselves over to the Lord, Michelle apparently is totally trusting where her health is concerned, yet she apparently thinks God needs a little help in the form of human intervention to get her and the baby safely to term. I will let God make all decisions concerning my health, i.e diabetes, cancer, but will seek human intervention to prevent or control these diseases.
Sounds like you don’t quite trust God or you have your own ideas as to what will happen, right? Or maybe your faith is a tad selective.
BTW there are faiths where people refuse medical care and truly leave it to God. At least they are consistent.
Prematurity is a physically and emotionally taxing experience for the parents, children, and family members. I was very bothered by the highly sanitized portrayal of little Josie in the NICU. These little souls don’t lay in basinettes with big hair ribbons and fawning family members over them. Yes the ordeal is painful and difficult for these children and yes I’m sure many are thankful to be alive now. But why would any mother want to risk subjecting another child to this, especially a supposedly Christian nurturing mother?
Under certain circumstances I can see where a woman might risk it, but a woman who already has several children, one with possible special needs, who herself barely survived her last bout of pre-e unscathed to not only put herself at risk but another child as well is beyond comprehension to me. I remain convinced that Michelle has a very real physical and emotional need to be pregnant Joanne that she is putting first and above all else, including her children, her own safety, and that of her unborn child.
When asked about future pregnancies while Josie was still so critical, did Michelle ever respond that her only focus now is Josie? That she has all her other children to think of, especially the younger ones who will miss out on her time and attention because of such a critically ill newborn and to not bother her and her family at this very difficult time with such absurd questions?
I know I offend a lot of sensibilities on this blog but I remain convinced Michelle is a pregnancy addict and the evidence for this is staring us all straight in the face.
I think they’re just one big happy family and I like them. Any comments?
Oh, yeah.
Hi Hans,
I think I leave no doubt where I stand. One can believe what they want, but when we do not live in a marriage or a family, do we really have any idea what is going on behind closed doors?
I’ve seen more than a few “perfect” marriages end in divorce.
“I believe a girl can have a baby every year and become more beautiful, have a better figure and lovelier complexion, with each newborn. I am living proof of my theory.” — Jayne Mansfield, 1950s sex bomb and movie star.
Is Michelle Duggar another proof of this theory? She looks quite attractive.
I wrote the story about the infamous Mary Kay Letourneau that appears at http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/marykay_letourneau/1.html
Mary Kay really enjoyed being pregnant. Part of the reason was that people thought she looked prettier when pregnant because her skin would glow and she looked vibrantly cute in maternity outfits.
Although I’m childless by choice and have never been pregnant, it seems like there are quite a few women who enjoy being pregnant and believe it makes them look cute.
No matter what the legal status of abortion or how effective contraceptives may become, for a plethora of reasons women will continue to have babies and the species to survive.
Hi Denise Noe,
Indeed Jayne Mansfield would become enraged at any suggestion that an abortion could be arranged if “needed”. It was even rumored that her daughter, actress Mariska Hargitay, was the product of an adulterous affair. Ms. Mansfield insisted that was not the case.
Her life was to become very tragic and sad, but she loved her children.
Pregnancy can have a very positive effect on women. My hair never looked better. I think with Michelle its when she is the happiest, and it shows. Mary Kay LeTourneau, very strange situation there.
You’re right about the human race. Despite centuries of warfare, famine, disease, short life spans, hardship, brutality, pestilence, abortion, contraception, and social upheavel, the human race goes on!
Mary says:
November 14, 2011 at 8:52 am
Hi Denise Noe,
Indeed Jayne Mansfield would become enraged at any suggestion that an abortion could be arranged if “needed”.
(Denise) My article about Jayne Mansfield’s anti-abortion stance is here
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2011/02/15/are-abortion-foes-sexually-repressed/
Hi Denise Noe,
Thank you for the article. Very interesting. One could accuse Jayne of a lot of things but being sexually repressed was certainly not one of them! She had a string of lovers and as I said, it was rumored that Mariska was the result of an adulterous affair, which would have not surprised anyone. Though in all fairness to Jayne she vehemently denied this.
BTW, her first child, Jayne Marie, was the result of a “date rape” when Jayne was 14 y/o.
Jayne definitely lived her convictions where abortion was concerned.
Jayne Mansfield didn’t lack “repression;” she lacked healthy boundaries about her sexuality. That’s awful that she was raped at 14. I’m willing to bet that that wasn’t the first time someone did some kind of sexual violence to her. Most women who take off their clothes for money/adulation, past and present, esp women in the sex industry, eg, porn, stripping, prostitution, but bigger name stars as well, have the same tragic history, which is one of sexual abuse (often in childhood) and violence, eg, rape as a teen. Even the fact that Jayne Mansfield was married a bunch of times and evidently had multiple affairs as well, it’s all a sign of the same lack of boundaries and appropriateness that is taken from sexual abuse victims. Marilyn Monroe was the first playboy centerfold (and Jayne Mansfield not surprisingly posed as well). Talk about tragically symbolic. Norma Jean Baker was in and out of foster homes as a child. Doesn’t take much to figure out what was going on those foster homes.
Hi Joanne,
Very true but I also think Jayne’s whole personna was sexuality. The woman exuded it. Why and where it came from can only be speculated on.
Certainly none of this brought her any happiness. Her life became tragic for both her and her children and she died in her mid thirties. She was trapped in a very abusive relationship in which both she and her children suffered. She spiraled down hill. Very sad and tragic life.
Same with Marilyn Monroe. All the affairs and abortions didn’t bring her what she desperately wanted in the end, a child. How ironic someone like her would die alone.
She did have a difficult childhood, I hear her mother was mentally ill, and I have no doubt all those years in foster homes rendered plenty of sexual abuse.
Elizabeth Taylor at least had her children and had lived twice as long. But much in the way of happiness?
For Mary: Biographers believe it quite possible Mariska Hargitay’s biological father was someone other than Mickey Hargitay. However, since she was raised as Mickey Hargitay’s daughter, she must be considered his daughter regardless of her biological heritage.
For Joanne: Marilyn Monroe said she had been molested as a child. However, the specifics of the story have been researched by biographers who find they don’t check out. It’s possible she was molested but couldn’t remember the specifics right and also possible that something other than molestation happened that scared her and formed a false memory.
When Marilyn Monroe was married to Arthur Miller, she desperately wanted to have a baby. In the classic comedy, “Some Like It Hot,” her belly can be seen puffy because she was pregnant. However, the pregnancy miscarried. She had more than one miscarriage, each of which left her emotionally crushed. The probable reason for the miscarriages was a history of abortion which may have damaged her womb. IMO, it seems reasonable to hypothesize that repeated abortions kind of teaches the body to reject the embryo or fetus and expel it.
However, I personally don’t believe that Marilyn Monroe committed suicide — or that she was murdered. I believe her death was an accident. She lost track of the pills she’d taken and the booze.
Jayne Mansfield didn’t die because of a wild lifestyle. She died in a car accident. That can happen to anyone regardless of lifestyle. She was not at the wheel and, I believe, neither driver was drunk. It was just one of the sorts of tragedies that can befall anyone.
“I’m the mother type.” — Jayne Mansfield.
Jayne Mansfield had one a series of beauty contests. One time an interviewer ran down all the varied beauty pageant titles she had accrued and then asked, “What is your favorite title?”
“I like to be called ‘mother,'” she answered.
Denise,
Thank God Mariska was too young to remember the car accident. Her mother’s death was especially gruesome.