I strongly feel that this was not the right thing to do at a children’s event.
Again, this was a great event except for the people that were handing out toy fetuses to small children. At an adult event, OK, at a small children’s event, I think not.”
~ Grandfather John Ramsey complaining about Project:Ignite’s distribution of 12-week-old fetus toys at a local Halloween event, as quoted by The Walton Tribune, November 6
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I think these are adorable! Why do people have such a visceral reaction
to “tiny ones” ???
Leslie, another comment from the article: We got halfway through and there was a pro-life type group that was handing out 12-week-old rubber fetuses. Before I could grab my son, he was picking one up and asking what it was.”
I think THAT is what they are afraid of–that a little one will be interested, see it, and think “that’s a baby”.
Personally, when I was little, I would have thought those dolls were the coolest thing ever–all things science fascinated me at that age.
The mere fact that the grandfather referred to them (rather dismissively) as “toy fetuses” tipped his hand, as it were, and showed his apparent abortion-tolerant sensibilities. Would he react so negatively if “toy babies” (sometimes known to the non-hypersensitive as “baby dolls”) were being distributed, I wonder?
How DARE they show the truth to kids when they’re so young! Their parents and teachers haven’t even had the chance to lie to them about the nature of human development yet at that age!!!!!
9_9
If they’re going to try to indoctrinate young kids at a Halloween event, they could at least hand out fetus-shaped candy instead.
Yup, that’s exactly what they’re afraid of. They know those dolls represent babies, and it takes careful training and twisting of the mind to deny their humanity. Kids haven’t had that done to them yet so it’s cut and dry truth. “That’s a baby. Like I was.” and they fully identify with them. Already a dangerous pro-life seed is sown. :)
The pro-abort parents don’t want to explain that it’s ok to kill tiny people but not big people because they know their tiny children will immediately recognize the danger to themselves that logic threatens.
Eww, Joan! Like the abortion cookies??? You pro-murder folks are sick. The idea is that the little baby is protected from being DE-personified, ground up, and flushed like garbage! That’s not exactly communicated by encouraging children to EAT the little people! Cannibalism much?!? Again, the pro-death mind twist is demonstrated. *shaking head sadly*
What flavor fetus, Joan?
Abortion cookies?! Seriously? I’m not sure I want to know, but curiosity is getting the better of me…
Chocolate, to represent the Black Genocide™, obviously.
I love those 12 week babies. Actually, that’s the size of my baby right now as I am 12 weeks today! Children do recognize them as babies. Years ago I was babysitting a 3 yr. old boy and his 18 month old sister. The little girl was looking through my purse and I had one of those babies (made of plastic, not the more recent rubber). She pulled it out, looked at it, and said “Baby!” It always amazed me that adults could deny what a 1 1/2 year old child could so clearly see.
Yes – the truth in something we can see and touch. I love the 12 week babies too. I use them all the time in the sidewalk counseling. The kids do get it, and it’s the adults that have to do the mind-bending gymnastics to support abortion. I’ve seen kids dress these little ones up – and have them wrapped in baby blankets.
Kids do get it. Unfortunately, many adults do not.
If they’re going to try to indoctrinate young kids
Yeah. Those bastids. And someone should do something about those 8th grade science teacher idealogues spreading their indoctrination forcefully to the kids they teach about human growth and development as well! Do you know children are FORCED to sit through those classes by law?! OUTRAGEOUS!
LOL – my 2 year old just walked into the room and saw my computer screen. He pointed at the fetal model and said “Baby.”
Oh, the indoctrination… :D
I’m not sure if the photo is just used for representation, but the “fetus” doll in the picture is by doll artist Donna Lee. It’s a special project of hers. She created those babies to be distributed to Crisis Pregnancy Centers to show what a real pre-born baby looks like at that stage of development. I imagine that the ones they were passing out to the children were the little plastic ones that Birthright/Birthchoice passes out at events and fairs. Donna Lee’s are a little bit expensive to be just passing out to everyone.
My other comment:
Now they’re complaining about models of BABIES? It’s not “appropriate” to show BABIES in public???
I guess all mothers should throw blankets completely over their babies then, lest someone be offended by the sight of a tiny human being…OH, THE HORROR! :O
Good grief…some people!
My son loved the rubber 12 week fetus doll that the evil CPC gave us. When I was 12 weeks pregnant he would hold it to my belly and talk about what his little brother or sister looked like. As someone already said, children see clearly that these are babies and identify with them. Thats why adults (some with abortion baggage of their own) are so afraid of them.
My university pro-life group group handed out candy, and those pro-life silly bands that you had featured some months ago. We had enough candy, but our 200 silly bands were gone in a little over an hour! (And we didn’t get in any trouble for it.) So thanks for that tip, Jill :-)
What is the problem with handing out toy fetuses to children? Does he think the children will be traumatized? I don’t see how. That little fetus doll doesn’t look much different than the little baby dolls that children already play with, except that it’s a little smaller and not as developed. I think kids can handle it.
Its not like these “dolls” were handed out coated with “pretend” blood to symbolize an aborted baby… They look like toys to me. Nothing different that those little Lego people you get from the Lego store.
Here you go Kate,
Fetus cookies!!
https://www.jillstanek.com/2010/07/pro-abort-bakes-bloody-fetus-cookies/
The very fact that they have to ‘protect’ their children from the figurines should be a sign unto itself that somethings wrong.
Sometimes I think kids have some kind of sense that prevails against lies like ‘fetuses aren’t human, so abortions ok’ or whatever else you want to use, they automatically know its a baby and if their parent does try to explain it to them they’re automatically disgusted. My sisters reacted that way when I told them (in a very basic form) what abortion was, after accidentally seeing a abortion picture I was looking at. They thought of our youngest sibling who’s still in mommy’s tummy and were upset that people would want to kill them.
Echoing several people, it takes a great twist of the mind to justify abortion, so a child’s simple logic is probably one of the greatest threats to a pro-choice person, especially since deep down they probably know that the kid is right. So they wait till they’re older, have hit puberty and are more easily ‘brainwashed’ to tell them the lie that an unborn child isn’t human enough to protect, and that its ok to kill them.
Those little babies are adorable btw.
And little children(that know a baby when they see one)shall lead them.
You are right! Kids get it right from the jump.
A couple years ago, my next door neighbor was having a champagne breakfast to celebrate the inaguration of Obama. I was on my way to the March for Life in DC. Her son asked me what I was doing, and I told him (he was 11) that I beleived that all babies should have a right to be born and they should never be killed by their moms. He looked at me with the strangest look and said, “Well, duh.”
And yet hisparents were in their house (Episcopalian priest and wife) celebrating and toasting the inaguration of the biggest abortion president ever.
Out of the mouth of babes/
Rather than the appearance of the fetus models, I would think it is the political implications the parents don’t like. That’s not to say, that I have an issue with distributing the fetal models, though.
LOL! What are the pro-aborts worried about? Oh yeah – the truth!
I don’t have a problem with the fetus models, whatever. If they were passing out pictures of aborted babies that would not sit well with me at all. Personally I just think it’s weird to pass out little unborn babies at Halloween, but there isn’t anything wrong with it.
How DARE they show the truth about sex education and contraception to kids when they’re so young! Their parents and teachers haven’t even had the chance to lie to them about the nature of human development and sex only taking place in marriage yet at that age!!!!!
Yeah. Those sods. And someone should do something about those 8th grade science teacher idealogues spreading their indoctrination forcefully to the kids they teach about human growth and development, sex education and contraception as well! Do you know children are FORCED to sit through those classes by law?! OUTRAGEOUS!
Geeze louise! Thanks for all the support, y’all! It’s been very saddening to read all of the vicious attacks against us on the web, and especially in the comments section of the Walton Tribune article.
I was the guy handing these out in Loganville. I just did an interview with the local news station, and they aired it at 4:45pm. They framed us poorly as well. I’m glad that all of you can see the beauty and innocence of these children getting to experience how fragile and complex life is at its earliest stages. We used the “Precious Ones” rubber models. Fantastic outreach – but a handful of folks are making it into something terrible. This was our second year, and the children love our booth. Keep praying for us! I’ll post a link the the news story if it makes their website.
God bless you all!
Joshua Edmonds
Senior Minister, Project:Ignite
http://www.StopTheHolocaust.com
facebook.com/therealjoshuaedmonds
Reality, all those baby models show is that it’s a real baby, not a blob of red cells (re: see Carla). It’s either a baby or its not. It can’t be one AND the other. It has to be one OR the other.
So, let me guess – there are a lot of people who worry strongly about what schools are teaching kids and want everything to be okayed by parents before it is taught – but you folks are completely okay with this? Is that the story?
I will say – I’d love if kids could be kids. I disagree with what was done, simply because I wish that kids were viewed a little more sacred (which is ironic, I know – as the whole message is to view all kids as sacred) – I just think that from overly political messages in school, the over selling of sex in society…now we have to spread political messages to toddlers. A little sad.
Hey everyone! I just want to post my exciting news! I am having another boy!!!! I just found out today. It was amazing to see him kicking away as I felt him kicking away in my belly. My firstborn son got to see his little brother and we could see all his perfect miniature parts… even the boy ones. lol. So amazing!!
Here’s the story that was aired in Atlanta on Channel 2. Read the text as well as watch the video; they seem to portray the story differently.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/parents-upset-after-children-receive-fetus-dolls-h/nFXyN/
Thanks!
Joshua Edmonds
Senior Minister, Project:Ignite
http://www.StopTheHolocaust.com
facebook.com/therealjoshuaedmonds
Congrats, Sydney! What are you guys thinking about naming him?
Congrats Sydney! Excellent news.
Don’t laugh at the boy parts though…that can cause a stigma for years. Just sayin’… :-)
You know, Ex, I would love it if they could leave other people’s kids out of the debate too… but aren’t intact unborn baby models better than shock photos?
Joshua–thank you for all your work.
Sydney__I rejoice with you! I have 2 boys–they are perfect! Let’s you and I pray for all the liilte boys in utero tonight who are in danger of not being rejoiced over….
Their parents and teachers haven’t even had the chance to lie to them about the nature of human development and sex only taking place in marriage yet at that age!!!!!
Facts or GTFO, Reality. What exactly are we lying about? How is that model inaccurate? Just more baseless accusations from you?
Jack – 10 times better than pictures – maybe 100 times better. Very much agreed.
Wow, Carla–thanks for the link. How disturbing.
Sydney, congratulations on another boy!
xalisae, read the words again. “lie to them about…..sex only taking place in marriage”. The whole hypocrisy of showing children things like fetal models and huge, horrible posters yet complaining about basic, factual sex education and the correct use of contraceptives. Very selective.
Congrats Sydney! I’m glad you are so happy. I read something somewhere about someone saying “it’s a girl, but with a whimple”.
I do want to say something in defense of the post-abortion babies, with blood. We all know how difficult they are to look at. But just as the little rubber babies, they do show TRUTH. The pictures are true. They perhaps are not ready for children’s consumption (though I have no problem with my 3 seeing them), they do not gloss over what abortion is: death, blood, parts, and they always look so lonely, like no one stood up for them. And of course, they didn’t: not the mom and not the doctor, who made money. My point is: the pictures have their place,
One general question for folks -
If the next table would have been a table in favor of gay marriage, would you have been fine with little books passed out that had two moms or two dads? Or maybe little figurines where two moms or dads were holding hands?
My 16 month old (at the time) was sitting on my lap as I looked up ultrasound images on the web and I was watching one from an 8 week old baby move about and he points at the screen and says with a huge grin ‘mama!’ Which, at the time was his word for baby cuz I had told him I had a baby in my belly.
It’s a baby folks!
Jack,
They are not shock photos. I know you disagree with us “foisting” them on children but they absolutely have their place in EDUCATING. How can we allow children to become those photos? The anger is misdirected at those holding the signs and NOT at the abortionist who is responsible for what the photo depicts.
Hi ExGop,
Yes. Lets let kids be kids. Does that go for the 11 year olds that get pregnant by their abusers and take them to PP to get abortions?
Joshua Edmonds,
I am very proud of the work you do!! Please keep it up!!
Sydney,
OH BOY!! A BOY!! :) Very excited for you!!
Ex-GOP – good question about the table handing out so-called gay marriage stuff. Would I have liked it? No, but I would also understand they have the right to express their opinion. I would have explained to my kids afterwards (or maybe at the moment depending on how the situation developed) how we believe that is wrong behavior. And my kids understand that while we reject the act, we do not reject the people (my sister, who my kids love, is homosexual, and they understand it is wrong but still love her). Heck, my goddaughter, who just moved in with us, is unmarried, uncommitted and unstable financially and she is pregnant at a terrible point in her life. And my younger children most definitely understand that what she has done is wrong, but also see us supporting her as she works through a very difficult circumstance and wrestles with difficult choices (whether to keep or adopt, and if so to whom – not whether or not to abort). In short, I do not believe it is bad for kids to see and hear things with which I do not agree or bad situations. That provides opportunities for me to help them understand the world, including the bad things that are in it.
Now I have a question for you. If there had been a so-called gay marriage booth as you suggest, and someone had complained, would it have gotten the press coverage? If it had, who would have been put in the bad light? The people handing out the so-called controversial stuff, as happened here? Or the complainer? My guess is the complainer in that case would have been labeled a hater. Why do gay rights people have the right to offend me, and I get called a hater if I complain? But the Pro-Life people are seen as offensive, extreme or inappropriate when they are simply showing the truth?
“They are not shock photos. I know you disagree with us “foisting” them on children but they absolutely have their place in EDUCATING. How can we allow children to become those photos? The anger is misdirected at those holding the signs and NOT at the abortionist who is responsible for what the photo depicts.”
I’m not angry at the prolifers! Nor do I judge those who think that’s the best way to go about spreading the truth about abortion. I disagree with it as a method in general, because I think other ways to get across to people can be much more effective. Personally I think your “I regret my abortion” signs and experiences are way more effective, because that’s what I hear from my pro-choice friends. I was just trying to point out to Ex, because he was disagreeing with the use of the little models, that this way of showing fetal development was probably more to his taste and less traumatizing than the other modes of abortion awareness. And again, it isn’t anger, because I think the people who do use the photos actually have good intentions with educating kids. The only “pro-lifer” I would be angry for using them is someone like my mother, who wasn’t actually trying to do any good. And ALL the abortionists infuriate me, they most definitely do not care about educating or protecting anyone, much less children.
I called them shock photos because they are meant to “shock” people with what abortion does to babies, and hopefully get them to change their stance. It wasn’t meant to be insulting to anyone who uses them.
” If there had been a so-called gay marriage booth as you suggest, and someone had complained, would it have gotten the press coverage? If it had, who would have been put in the bad light? The people handing out the so-called controversial stuff, as happened here? Or the complainer? My guess is the complainer in that case would have been labeled a hater.”
Agreed. The media is much more likely to be sympathetic to a gay rights group targeting kids with educating materials than a pro-life group. Which is one of the reasons I am always trying to find ways that effectively get our message across to those who disagree.
I would have gotten thrilled if my kids had gotten babies–and so would they. Hannah has enjoyed looking at pictures of what our baby looks like now.
Sydney, congrats!
Joshua, thank you for what you are doing!
Why would it be offensive to hand out a model of a 12-week-old baby? I mean, it’s just a body part, right? And no one worries about kids seeing severed hands and feet and heads or receiving candy shaped like an eyeball. So long as the body parts aren’t genitalia, it’s all good. Or is the image of a fetus offensive?
And anyway, I wouldn’t be upset if my kids received a fetus model on Halloween. I would just explain to them that is what a baby looks like in it’s mom’s tummy. I don’t see anything wrong with it. I do think it’s rather odd timing.
Bryan – I very much agree that they have the right to express their opinion – I simply would have an issue with either table – but know that it is legal and such.
On your second paragraph – it is all speculation – some people would be in favor of what was done, some people would be against. I’m not quite sure why people are surprised by this fact, and surprised that they always feel like the other side is picking on them. I’ve seen plenty of things done by both the left and right called out by the other side. People only focus on when they are getting picked on though.
For the record, I would have issues with my scenario – as I do the little babies – as I do a lot of things if it is focused at children and the ongoing politicalization of them. Let them be kids.
my comment got eated.
Carla – that is a weird question. I would say yes, a kid should be a kid, and it is horrible for abusers to rape an 11 year old, get them pregnant, and then force them to have an abortion.
Am I missing something? Are you for part of that equation? I don’t think you are, but I fail to see what point you are making.
“On your second paragraph – it is all speculation – some people would be in favor of what was done, some people would be against. I’m not quite sure why people are surprised by this fact, and surprised that they always feel like the other side is picking on them. ”
I don’t know about that, Ex. I am both for gay rights and pro-life, and from what I notice the media is usually more in favor of the gay rights (except for Fox News), and is usually pretty biased against pro-life.
Sure Jack – and the news I typically watch would be more in favor of gay rights, but I typically get the majority of my news from left leaning sources (not all, but the majority). And those on the right get the majority of their news from right leaning sources. And the left leaning sources complain about fox news, and the right leaning sources complain about the “liberal media” – but the fact of the matter is, when pressed about it, I haven’t found a single sole that has been forced to watch a media source against their will. People pick what they want to watch – it is the ultimate in democracy.
So sure, Bryan probably would turn on a right leaning show or go to a right leaning website, and they would have found a left leaning source that was mean about it, and then the right leaning site or tv program would have a fit about the “liberal media”.
It sells, so it continues. I get tired of it quite frankly. I go to the sites I want to go to, and since 99% of the news is for profit, complaining that they aren’t fair is like complaining that the local target is a little bit too high on their milk prices. Go elsewhere.
Know what I’m saying?
So, it’s perfectly acceptable to teach a little one about sexual orientation, but the moment you show them a life-like baby, you’re a bad guy? I really do not understand America these days.
Hmm. Everyone argued about the meaning of the Star Child at the end of “2001: A Space Odyssey”. Clearly, we started off on the wrong foot. We should have been discussing the Star Fetus!
Sorry that all of you missing the point of the story. I have read the story and the comments and I wish it were as innocent as handing out a toy doll to children but it was more than that. This was a group using propaganda to instill a message of abortion, whether you like it or not that is exactly what it was, into children that are busy coloring and learning their their ABC’s! Toddlers people!
Hi again, Jack!!
I hear ya. My only question is if a photo of a baby torn apart by abortion is too horrifying to look at why do we tolerate the tearing up of the baby?
To instill a message of abortion…………
Please explain that one, Jellis.
What was said, according to the article:
“This is a 12-week-old fetus. This is what you looked like in your mommy’s belly”
The message was not “pro-life.” It was science. It was truth.
I thought the message was “If science doesn’t mesh with your beliefs, you’re wrong?” Or is it only Christians they tell that to?
The truth is pro-life.
(My 3 1/2 year old daughter just saw the picture. She said that it was a tiny baby in his mommy’s hands. I explained it was a toy baby, but looked just like a real baby a little older than ours looks. She seems utterly untraumatized by knowing this. The trauma will be later when the pro-choicers tell them about abortion–and they already know what it is that’s being “terminated.”)
Carla, you nailed it. That IS the question. We are traumatized by the pictures, but can live with the reality of the act being perpetrated 3500 times a day.
Why the disconnect?
I have two of those little one models. When my sister in law was pregnant with my nieces’ brother, I showed them what the baby looked like. Its a great educational tool. Children can see things that adults refuse to see: that its not a blob and is a human!
The problem with the model shown in the picture is that it is an inaccurate representation of a 12 week old in utero. A real 12 week old would not be near that detailed in formation. Of course, the reason I know this is because I currently take medical classes, but this information is out there and is easily googled.
I don’t care if you’re pro-choice or pro-life, but please, let’s at least be accurate, people.
Rue,
The model represents 12 weeks gestational age/from fertilization, which is 14 weeks from Last Menstrual Period or LMP. I wonder if you’re receiving incomplete or outdated information then. By 12 weeks gestational age/14 weeks LMP, all facial features, organs, limbs, and digits are present and only have to further develop and mature. A fetus at that age is not just a featureless mass of tissue. Here’s where fetus’ of that age look like and where they are developmentally at that stage:
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/12_weeks.html
http://www.ehd.org/dev_article_unit12.php
http://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images-index.php
(mods, please delete my last post, didn’t get editing finished in time)
The whole, “How am I supposed to explain that to my kids?!” is bull. I think any kid you hand it to is gonna say, “Oh, a baby.” If you’re a die-hard anti-science anti-reality pro-abortionist, you can tell your kid, “That’s a baby doll. They’re too cheap to give away life-sized baby dolls,” and the kid will say, “Oh.” and lose interest.
If you think that a BABY is some grotesquely awkward thing to explain to a child — “Oh, um, when people are first born, they come out naked, and, um, they have no teeth…”
Totally ridiculous some of the remarks here… This is a Baby Doll to all kids…My grand daughter would LOVE to have one to play with..JUST a baby doll…Lighten up…When you go to Toys R Us and look at the babies..is your first thought Aborted fetus??? If it is then you have been brain washed my friend…
Not the right thing to use an exact model to inform and educate? Right. Ignorance is bliss.
This is not an accurate model of a 12 week old fetus. An actual fetus (or baby, whatever you want to call it) at this age is translucent with strange proportions and half formed organs visible. You can see that by looking at the images linked by Rachael C.
This is pro-life propaganda meant to humanize a fetus by telling children that it looks more like a miniature baby than it actually does. And I don’t get their logic at all. How cute something is shouldn’t determine how moral it is to kill it.
THANK YOU Shaed. Want to talk about “indoctrination” and things of that sort? Ignore science and say that a 12 week old fetus looks like a scale model of a newborn. C’mon now.
Total dishonesty. A 12 week old fetus does not look like that. If you have a point to make at least be genuine. A photo similar to this was going around on FB passed off as being real by staunch pro lifers and my daughter had a mis carriage. it was very upsetting to her to think she was going to see a child with all the features of a fully formed baby come out of her with the blood. She was a little over 8 weeks and at 12 weeks they don’t look like this either. Even the size is not accurate in most cases. What she lost was not anything she would have even seen unless she examined everything that came out of her with a magnifying glass if she saw anything at all. For people want to come off like they care some sure are cold hearted and sick…not to mention liars.
Hey Karen,
I’m very sorry to hear about your daughter’s miscarriage. Please tell her that my wife and I are praying for her.
This is Joshua Edmonds, the guy from the article. Firstly, thanks to everyone for sending their prayers, support, and love over the past year. And thank you very much to everyone who asked tough questions, contributed their thoughts and opinions, and furthered discussion on this important topic. I’ve read every single comment that has been posted, good and bad, and I appreciate your feedback.
I wanted to jump in for a quick second to share some helpful links with you and others who have been commenting over the past year.
At 12 weeks, your baby is about the size of a lime – accurate to the models we display. Here is a link to Baby Center’s info page on your 12 week mark of pregnancy: http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
Here are some photos of sonograms at 12 weeks from Pregnancy About (remarkable detail nowadays): http://pregnancy.about.com/od/pregnancycalendar/ig/12-Week-Ultrasound-Photos/
And here is a YouTube video of someone’s 12 week sonogram (including remarkable 4d imaging of the definition and level of development on the baby at that time): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9I4TekXlEQ
Please feel free to google other videos, articles, and pictures of children at 12 weeks.
In every outreach, counseling, speaking event, and interaction, we strive to be as honest, caring, and accurate as possible. I’m proud to note that since this story aired across 3 continents and 32 states last year, we’ve received dozens of requests for these lifelike models around the world. Many communities were happy to share with their children the joy of learning about human life and development.
If any of you wish to contact me with questions or concerns, please feel free to visit our ministry site, email me, or find me on facebook.
God bless, all!
Joshua Edmonds
Joshua@stoptheholocaust.com
http://www.stoptheholocaust.com
http://www.facebook.com/therealjoshuaedmonds
http://www.facebook.com/pulseprolifeministries
Josh,
I cannot view the youtube video at the computer I am at right now, however even viewing the other links you posted, the 12 week old in utero still does not look like that doll representation at all. It seems fairly obvious, though, that your mind is set and nothing that anyone says – even someone in the medical field, like me – will change your mind. In that case, this is a lost cause. Earlier up I attempted to clarify this issue, since, considering I am in the medical field and I am educated in this regard, I attempted to educate others. I figured perhaps they simply did not know and were just blindly following what other people said without bothering to research on their own or ask someone in the medical field. That is fine, most people don’t think to do that, so I simply provided the point of view from someone in the medical field. If anyone does not want to listen to that opinion, that is up to them. What is that saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink? I think that is very appropriate here … I presented facts, other people presented facts, I can’t force others to believe the truth, that is up to them.
Oh, and to Rachael, who suggested I received outdated information … if you believe that, you may want to talk to the fully accredited school I attend, they would be very interested to know that the subjects that they teach are outdated. But if you do contact them, they will assure you that everything they teach is up to date and in compliance with the Department of Education requirements. And by the way, per the links that you posted, the 12 week old in utero still looks nothing like the doll representation. No dice.
Godspeed,
Rue