Abortion clinic owner: “Abortion is an act of love”
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJgXgSXvtr0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
So I see abortion as fundamentally a mother’s act; an abortion as an act of love, love not only for oneself, but the family that one has at the present moment.
And making the decision, a very difficult decision, that this life cannot come to term.
~ Feminist author and abortion clinic owner Merle Hoffman in her new book’s trailer Intimate Wars: The Life and Times of the Woman Who Brought Abortion from the Back Alley to the Board Room from The Feminist Press, On the Issues Magazine, Winter 2012 Issue
Jan.18, 2012 6:00 am |
Abortionist quacks & pervs, Inconsistencies |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
an act of love? eek what do they call an act of hate?
When abortion was a back alley business, spoken of in whispers, people could dismiss it from their consciousness. There was no way to get accurate figures so it could be viewed as rare. Legalization meant accurate figures are kept and there is no way to at least believe and hope it is rare. It rubs our collective noses in it.
And so this act of love is “fundamentally a MOTHER’s act”? Well, if that’s so, then there has to be a CHILD involved. So a “pregnancy” isn’t “terminated,” a baby is killed. Ah, the use of language to redefine the truth. Reality, where are you? This should make you REALLY mad.
the ultimate act of love…..an abortion. the ultimate act of love…..cheating on your spouse. the ultimate act of love….beating your animal the ultimate act of love……killing your mom and dad. the ultimate act of love…raping a woman. can we say TWISTED?
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20
“The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”
Margaret Sanger
Echoes of the past…
They Love Their Father The Devil and offer sacrifices of blood to him!
Don’t you see–she HAD to have an abortion herself. So she could do important things…like…um…playing piano! The only “act of love” in this woman’s abortion was preventing her child having to grow up with such a mother! What a load of crap justification!
Denise – back alley v legal abortions “Legalization meant accurate figures are kept and there is no way to at least believe and hope it is rare.”
The Guttmacher Institute always reports a larger number of abortions than the CDC. They also know more abortionists.
My question is, “Has ALL the income from abortions been reported to the IRS?” Bet not! Remember that tax evasion is what put Al Capone in jail. Would be a good question for the Presidential Candidates. ;>)
Did you catch this part?
“It was the very young girls that moved me most. I felt so much rage against the males who impregnated each child—was it her father, her brother, some young boy with no thought for the consequences? The girls, the women, were duly punished for their part of the sex act. But for the boy or man there was no censure, never was.”
And how could there be when you’re right there, so willing to cover up their rapes and “get rid of the evidence”?? How deluded and obtuse can this woman be as to not acknowledge the role abortion has played in the abuse of women and girls; in furthering the misogyny that they’re always screaming about?
Ali MacGraw had an abortion when she was very young. She was impoverished and unmarried. Many years later, when she was successful and married, she happily carried to term and gave birth. She said that having her son made her more certain that she made the right decision when she had the abortion. The child required much care that took a great deal of time and energy. Thus, she was sure that she would not have taken adequate care of the child when she was younger.
I believe it likely the young Ali MacGraw had “heard of adoption” but didn’t feel psychologically prepared to carry to term and then hand the baby over to someone else.
She had been on the Pill when she got pregnant. She hadn’t forgotten to take it. It just hadn’t worked and she risked her life and paid much money to an illegal abortionist to end the pregnancy.
Perhaps what is needed is more services to kind of “spread out” the care of babies and children as well as a family allowance system. Would that have prevented Ali MacGraw from getting that abortion?
I don’t know.
Having it illegal did not.
Patty says:
January 18, 2012 at 10:24 am
Denise – back alley v legal abortions “Legalization meant accurate figures are kept and there is no way to at least believe and hope it is rare.”The Guttmacher Institute always reports a larger number of abortions than the CDC. They also know more abortionists.
(Denise) HUH???? The figures for legal abortions are disputed?
Denise Noe, tobacco companies were able to convince a very large portion of the population to smoke. Was the success of the tobacco industry in pushing its product due to the fact that smoking was legal or because the industry massively marketed smoking as a socially acceptable habit and that it was, indeed, even a good and healthy thing for people to do?
The Abortion Industry is the new Tobacco Industry.
Ms. Hoffman’s desire to create demand for the product she sells is proof that the demand for abortion is not a naturally occurring demand but one that is manufactured by the abortion industry and its PR marketing arm, the Feminist movement.
One day, abortion, like smoking, will be seen as the unhealthy act that it is.
For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. -John 16:2
Jen, Ms. Hoffman is not a women’s rights activist. She is a business person. That is why she doesn’t care about the effects abortion has on women or if having an abortion covers up crimes, etc… Ms. Hoffman has a product to sell, and business suits to buy.
Well, then, release Amdrea Yates and Susan Smith from jail – they were just loving their children, according to this woman!
You know what is the supreme act of love? Overcoming the hardships of an unplanned pregnancy to give your child life. True love involves sacrifice for others. Selfishness is killing a child due to the circumstances of his/her conception. It’s tragic indeed that this woman confuses selfishness with love. How sad her relationships must be.
Nothing new here. Just one of the same merciless arguments that has existed for at least fifty years.
“It would be the cruelest thing in the world to let my baby be born with only a 50-50 chance of being normal. And I am concerned about our other children. How would it affect them? Some people think that what I want to do is wrong. If it would make them happy, we would be glad to start again next month and try to have a normal baby” – Sherri Finkbine, 1962.
oAnna says:
January 18, 2012 at 10:47 am
Well, then, release Amdrea Yates and Susan Smith from jail – they were just loving their children, according to this woman!
(Denise) Do you recall the outpouring of sympathy for Andrea Yates? People couldn’t believe this old-fashioned Born-Again Christian woman could kill her children unless she had been driven utterly mad. Indeed, underneath the sympathy for her was the fear that having to care for a large family would drive many women into insanity. A writer for National Review wrote that there seemed to be a widespread feeling among women about Andrea Yates, “There but for the grace of abortion, day care, and secular humanism go I.”
jOaNNA–
Self-sacrifice isn’t fun. Nor is it sexy. And if you don’t believe in the value of human life, how can this even make sense to you?
I read a post by Kristen Walker the other day about Merle Hoffman. http://newwavefeminists.blogspot.com/2012/01/i-shall-now-make-fun-of-abortion-clinic.html
Gives you some more insight into this clinic owner’s mentality.
Denise – what Andrea Yates needed was treatment for severe PPD and PPP, not abortion. Killing her children prior to their births wouldn’t have helped the situation anymore than killing them after their births did.
JoAnna says:
January 18, 2012 at 11:24 am
Denise – what Andrea Yates needed was treatment for severe PPD and PPP, not abortion. Killing her children prior to their births wouldn’t have helped the situation anymore than killing them after their births did.
(Denise) I was just pointing out that many women have a fear of taking care of large families.
Abortion resembles an abuser/abusee relationship in that it advances the idea “If I can’t have you, no one can.”
Would you tell an abused woman she’s only being beaten and threatened out of love? Violence against another human being isn’t love.
LOLing at the coat hangers.
If a woman wants to have an illegal abortion and gets hurt because she sticks a metal hanger up her lady parts to kill her kid – well, sorry, but maybe you should have thought about that one.
Could wire coat hangers be outlawed? It would be hard to use plastic or wood coat hangers for abortion and they are better for clothes anyway.
Nah Denise then we’d have to outlaw everything wire and/or long and pointy – people just need to learn not to kill their kid hah.
LOL. Denise. I know you’re asking what you believe to be serious questions, but I just couldn’t help but laugh at the ridiculousness.
Kel I agree Denise’s question are lubricous and I hope my following response doesn’t give them more credibility than they deservie.
Denise why would you rather women have unsafe abortions than admit that aborition is wrong and that there other, better ways, to help pregnant women than resorting to coat hangers?
The argument you use relies on legitimating the anarachist tendecies within human beings generally, and within the radical feminist’s movement in particular. The fact that some women are and will be disresepctful of the laws of the land should be used as argument for keeping abortion legal otherwiise all of our laws could be equally undermined. Reality has tried to use this argument before, and the argument just doesn’t pass the reasonable test.
Kel says:
January 18, 2012 at 11:43 am
LOL. Denise. I know you’re asking what you believe to be serious questions, but I just couldn’t help but laugh at the ridiculousness.
(Denise) It’s not ridiculous. Wire coat hangers aren’t a necessity. They can easily be replaced by plastic and wood coat hangers — that are in fact better for clothes.
When people think of outlawed abortion, their thoughts seem to automatically latch on to wire coat hangers. Thus, it makes sense to ban them when abortion is outlawed.
So, basically, Hitler was a VERY loving man, since, using this woman’s logic, he only wanted to keep the German family as it was without the Jews, he was showing love to the Germans by terminating the Jews lives? Really? See how STUPID that sounds when applied to something as equally heinous and as equally life destroying as abortion is?
When people think of outlawed abortion, their thoughts seem to automatically latch on to wire coat hangers. Thus, it makes sense to ban them when abortion is outlawed.
Uh huh. Whatever you say.
“When people think of outlawed abortion, their thoughts seem to automatically latch on to wire coat hangers. ”
When I think of abortion, I think of the hurt parents and the dead babies, not coat hangers. Abortionists and those who market abortion aren’t a necessity so those are what we need to ban. Coat hangers can’t do any harm by themselves and people need to help those with mental illnesses who think of harming themselves.
With your thinking Denise, I guess we better ban steak knives because people have used them to hurt/kill themselves/others. Better ban ropes, too. And tall buildings. And bridges. And stairs.
Proaborts need to start focusing on helping others, all others.
Nuh uh! Andrea Yates murdered because evil antis are limiting access to abortion ‘care’! It says so on lots of lefty prochoice rags so it’s GOTTA be true. Besides, Yates was just ‘halting reproduction’ by ending the ‘cell division’ of her children. So it’s all YOUR fault if someone aborts with a coathanger-and if I stick a fork in my eye it’s leik totally your fault if I’m blinded. Cuz womyn can’t be held responsible for their own actions-that’s for adults, and men, and is icky and doesn’t feel good. How can we behave like children ourselves if we’re responsible for one? Eww!
You know, how many women have actually induced an abortion via a wire coat hanger? The way pro-choicers go on about it, you’d think it was the most common form of self-inducing an abortion.
A savage act of violence that intentionally destroys a vulnerable, innocent human life, such as abortion truly is, is not an act of love.
Coathangers were not the instrument of “choice” for most illegal abortions, even those that were self-induced. The self-inflicted ones were usually done by certain potions, or knitting needles. The ones that weren’t self-inflicted were mostly done by licenced MDs in their offices; they called them “D&C’s and just neglected to mention that a baby had been killed in the process, in order to legally cover their backsides. Incidentally, legally covering their backsides so they can continue to kill children and endanger women did not decrease after Roe v. Wade/Doe v. Bolton; it increased. Recall a National Abortion Federation convention in which abortionist Warren Hearn, of Boulder, CO, during a discussion of this, got up and urged his fellow baby killers to “practice responsible medicine”, and fewer women would be injured, and there would be fewer lawsuits to worry about. He got booed off the podium. Responsible medicine follows the Hippocratic Oath, which precludes induced abortion of any kind.
Leslie Hanks, is Hearn still practicing in Boulder?
Oh yes, can’t help wondering if Merle’s new book includes an honest look at the life and times of Norma McCorvey…
When I was a child, my mother told me about a female friend she had known in her youth, when abortion was illegal, who was in the hospital with bleeding. Doctors asked, “What did you do to yourself?” The terrified woman wouldn’t tell them and one said, “Well then just lie there and die, damn you!” Eventually she admitted she had shoved a cocktail spoon up herself.
“How deluded and obtuse can this woman be as to not acknowledge the role abortion has played in the abuse of women and girls; in furthering the misogyny that they’re always screaming about.”
So sexually abused/raped women are obligated to give birth in order to provided evidence of rape and abuse? This type of deluded thinking is the height of misogyny. I worked in child protective services and most of the abusers were found guilty – without a baby. Once again, we see the basic philosophy of the “pro-life” movement as being all about women as compliant breeders.
And BTW, along with the other methods of inducing abortion, there were chemical douches. (Check out “Revolutionary Road” written during the 50’s). A friend of mine douched with anti-acne medication in order to get rid of a pregnancy. And this is the world that you sadists want to take us back to. Who cares about women inflicting harm on themselves cuz they’re going against their god given nature, right? Collateral damage, right? And in this brave new world that you pray for, there will be much less of a safety net for those who do give birth. And we’ll all live happily ever after. Actually, if women are subjected to the ultimate indignity of being forced to give birth or resort to desperate measures, they will object – just like those in the women’s movement who lobbied for choice.
I note how she is wearing a lab coat in her facility. She’s a journalist, not a doctor or nurse practitioner. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t make the pig a lady.
The self-inflicted ones were usually done by certain potions, or knitting needles.
Uh oh, Denise Noe. Looks like knitting needles will have to be made illegal as well.
Crafters everywhere will be rioting in the streets.
“Don’t you see–she HAD to have an abortion herself. So she could do important things…like…um…playing piano!”
How does having a baby or even 20 babies keep a woman from playing the piano?
Denise’s statements are ludicrous and I hope my following response doesn’t give them more credibility than they deservie.
Denise why would you rather women have unsafe abortions than admit that aborition is wrong and that there are other, better ways, to help pregnant women than advocating that they resort to using coat hangers in order to self-abort?
The argument that you use relies on legitimating the anarachist tendecies within human beings generally, and within the radical feminist’s movement in particular. The fact that some women are and will be disresepctful of the laws of the land should not be used as an argument for keeping abortion legal otherwise all of our laws could be equally undermined. Reality has tried to use this argument before, and the argument just doesn’t pass the reasonable test.
Wait, does this mean Joan Crawford was right all along??
“Do you recall the outpouring of sympathy for Andrea Yates? … underneath the sympathy for her was the fear that having to care for a large family would drive many women into insanity.”
By historical standards, she didn’t even have a large family, more like average.
Anyway, a group of ladies were discussing the case over lunch at the time, I told them Yates should get the death penalty. One lady said that it would probably be more merciful than just leaving her to her tortured conscience for 50 years.
“So sexually abused/raped women are obligated to give birth in order to provided evidence of rape and abuse? This type of deluded thinking is the height of misogyny. I worked in child protective services and most of the abusers were found guilty – without a baby. ”
But those are just the ones who were reported. Haven’t you ever heard of unreported crimes?
How dumb can you be, seriously.
Consider all the ones that you never even heard of because it was taken care of quietly and the victims threatened into silence.
Also, the Guttmacher Institute reports that abused and raped women abort at a slightly lower rate than the other women. So, there is no evidence that abused or raped women want to abort more.
Don’t feed the troll (i.e. “CC”), y’all…
Denise: I trust you know *why* Kel said that your question was silly? You seem to be trying to portray anti-abortion legislation as “unreasonable/unrealistic” based on what you’re trying to portray as the “eventual consequences/implications”. But surely you know that such predictions, “implications”, etc., must hold to the standard of being within the bounds of sane reason, and that they should have at least a modicum of proportion to the issue at hand, before anyone would possibly take them seriously?
For instance: it is not unreasonable to make, say, atomic bombs, or plutonium, or anthrax, illegal to own… since the number of constructive, non-destructive purposes to which these things can be put is… well… rather small. On the other hand, it would be quite unreasonable to make, for example, sharpened pencils illegal to own (perhaps on the attempted pretext of preventing pierced eyeballs, abdominal puncture wounds, and the like), since any use of them as a weapon is utterly removed from the intended purpose.
In short: how should we respond to a case where a woman murders her unborn child with a coat-hanger (and for the sake of this particular case, let us assume that she did it freely, knowingly, and willfully in the fullest possible senses of those terms)? We should respond in the same way that we should respond if I were to take a coat-hanger, unravel it, and kill my next-door neighbour by thrusting the wire through his eyeball (and brain): lock me up and charge me with homicide, and leave the innocent wire-hanger producers (and wire hanger) out of it altogether… save perhaps for throwing away the bloodied hanger, or turning it over to the police as evidence, more likely. Surely that’s more sensible than would be a prohibition of an item whose purpose is benign?
CC, the pro-abortion feminist movement is the child killing misoygnistic movement and not the pro-life movement. You got your labels mixed up.
Who are the sadists? You must be referring the people that suck a little child into pieces and deposit the remains, that grisly brew, in a clear container that eerily resembles a food processor. Or how about those lovely folk who keep containers of aborted children in the refrigerator? The skull crushing abortionist is not a sadist? The abortionist who turns a women’s uterus inside out and then fails to call an ambulance to rush the women to a hosiptal is not sadist?
Hmm…. you have a strange definition of a sadist. The women in your scenario who decided to self-abort are killers. They are the sadists and not the people who outlaw the procedure they criminally used!!!!
Folks, normally I am FOR the death penalty.
But when discussing the case of Andrea Yates, remember that she suffered from post-Partum PSYCHOSIS. A rare but REAL phenomenon by which women suffer delusions… usually “religious” in nature i.e, “God” is telling them to “save their children from evil by sending them to Heaven”, etc.
Andrea Yates doctor WARNED her husband after the birth of their next to last child that she would probably have that problem (ppp), and to NOT get her pregnant again…which he ignored. Unlike Susan Smith, who did it for purely SELFISH reasons (she wanted a man, he didn’t want kids), I think Andrea Yates is a completely SEPARATE example.
And no..I don’t think women who have abortions deserve the death penalty…don’t bother to “go there” with me.
And all I’m saying is that, in Andrea Yates case, she should have been put in a mental health facility, not prison.
ninek beat me to the punch. “NO MORE WIRE HANGERS!”
i read the andrea yates book. yates was mentally ill and she was having auditory hallucinations. she head voices that told her “kill your children or they will go to hell.” she had been a nurse and had several hospitalizations. the drug haldol seemed to ease her symptoms. she was quite ill and released from the hospital too soon. it was a horrid tragedy and i dont condone it but i cant condem her either. she needs to remain in the hospital.
why use a wire hanger? i mean weve perfected the killing of babies with saline burning. a digoxin shot to their hearts. look at all the sharp crud they stick up women now and that heavy duty suction machine they use. a few women have had their fallopian tubes damaged forever. yeah thats normal. not to mention the countless women who are now sterile because of abortion. oh and lets just forget all about that breast cancer. weve come so far!
and abortion fans just love that good old word mysogyny. it means a hate or mistrust of women. why cant any of them address forced abortion in china……what happened to “trust women”? also what about aborted dead baby girls? sounds like hate to me! killing baby girls and forcing women into abortion.
ninek says:
January 18, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Wait, does this mean Joan Crawford was right all along??
(Denise) Joan Crawford was an extremely disturbed woman and over-reacted terribly to her small daughter’s use of a wire hanger.
It is true that plastic and wooden hangers are better for clothes.
This woman is the devil personified.
From reading some of the feminist literature, it seems that equality is defined as being as big of a douchebag as guys are. Screwing everything that moves and calling it “freedom”. The one obstacle they always had was the fact that the child was carried by women. Truly, if men carried that child, I would still feel the same as I do now. That creating a child is a great responsibility that must be defended, whose life is as important as that of the people who created him or her. However, what women have done so they can be as big of a douche as a man is support abortion, that way they can be as promiscous, and be “just like a man” without worrying about reproduction.
I will stand with women for equal pay, for honoring their place as the bearers of children by working toward equality in pay for them as they exercise their unique standing as pregnant mothers.
One thing that makes me wonder is putting out literature like “Happy, Healthy and Hot, and giving it to girls under the guise of “freedom of choice”.
right on hector! the radical feminists want us to be men and be men haters! talk about mass confusion.
Am I understanding correctly that the woman who wrote the article owns an abortion clinic? One that provides for 2nd trimester abortions, to boot?? Of course she thinks that abortion is ok – it’s the way she makes her livelihood.
Also – Denise, et al – the cure of being relieved of the responsibilities of motherhood is to have your child placed for adoption. And in many states, if you want a relationship with that child and his/her new family, that normally can be done. Then women can play the piano, ride horses or have any dream they want, and still limit their motherly responsibilities.
Just in case one does not know: for the 1+ million abortions each year, there are nearly an equal amount of couples waiting to adopt children. And this includes children with disabilities.
So the real question: if one does not want the responsibilities of motherhood, and there are alternatives, and the difficulties in having so many couples wanting to adopt, but can’t due to the lack of available children due to abortion – why aren’t women taking that route? That way one’s responsibilities are upheld, and no child’s life is forfeited.
Why not have hope and love, instead of what I want, at the expense of another?
Denise, I have to correct you. Please don’t say Andrea Yates was a born again Christian. She was raised Catholic as was her husband and when they were new parents they left the Catholic church to follow a man who was a cult leader and teaching things CONTRARY to God’s Word. As far as I know neither Andrea or Rusty ever asked Christ to be their Savior and placed their faith in Christ alone which would be the thing that makes one spiritually reborn or “born again”.
i am a born-again Christian and this woman was a sick, deranged woman following a lunatic false prophet.
And I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Andrea or her selfish husband who knew she was mental enough to have his mother come over and make sure Andrea didn’t hurt the kids yet he left his children there with their sick mother and kept getting her pregnant.
She drowned her kids and they were so terrified they urinated, defecated and vomited in the tub. Noah, her oldest, struggled the most for his life. His last words to his mommy were “I’m sorry!” That makes me cry. That just breaks my heart. It is hard for me to have sympathy for someone who does that to her kids sick or not.
abortionist warren hern once stated ” i was working late one night filling out paper work when a friend of mine called me at the clinic. the man laughed and said “still killin babies at this hour hern”??? see they know they are killing.
I am seriously confused – is Denise pro-life or pro-abortion? Sometimes you say things that could go either way – but everyone here comments as if you are pro-abortion, but sometimes I think you’re pro-life haha I feel like we need a little box to click what side we’re on as we post :P
this country lost any and all respect for human life when we legalized abortion. ha now you can kill your little 2 year old ( casey anthony) and you can get on with life because 12 stupid people felt sorry for tot mom and they didnt care at all about little caylee anthony.
hi amber c. i like denise but im trying to figure that out as well.;)
Heather, it’s not far removed from that. We are asked to understand about the mother and what she went through…partying? getting drunk? I know many will sieze on this and say “well, there is a textbook case for abortion…her boyfreind got her pregnant, and she wasn’t ready”. If she isn’t ready to bring a child in the world, remain chaste. Don’t have sex. That goes for every douchebag out there who thinks it’s cool for him to get a woman pregnant and walk away. If abortion is made illegal, and I fervently hope it will be, then if a woman goes to a doctor to get an illegal abortion, not only she should be charged, but the guy who was walking away as well. If he can prove he wanted the child, and was there to support her, then fine, but us men need to step up and 1) respect a woman enough to wait until the time is right, and 2) to uphold our duty to that woman and that child.
Women’s groups are all about calling men mysoginists, but femininsts are no different. They BS as much as men do, and obfuscate with the best douchebag out there. Every single one of us needs to put our weapons down, and end the “sexual revolution” for the sake of the future generations being killed in the name of convenience and “choice”. The choice is before you do anything to concieve…not after!
Denise does NOT believe that abortion should be illegal. Denise believes that abortion should remain legal. Says it all.
yeah hector…..pretty much these pro death types just want to keep the murder going. girls are skating on infanticide now. amy grossberg hid her pregnancy and gave birth in a motel room. she and her boyfriend threw the baby in a dumpster. she did 2 years. prom mom threw her baby in the trash at prom. she did 2 years. jessica coleman stabbed her baby to death and threw him in a duffle bag and then into a pond. she lived right by me. 6 years for coleman. a man came forward and gave the baby a proper burial. he adopted that baby in death. i will not forget these women as long as i live!
it seems that equality is defined as being as big of a douchebag as guys are.
Well, most guys are good guys. I am sure you know that and yes some are scum.
I worked in child protective services and most of the abusers were found guilty – without a baby.
What state and county are you talking about here, CC? What years are you talking about? What were the number of people accused of rape and how many were found guilty in a court of law? What were the number of people that were accused of abuse and then found guilty in a court of law? What was your job title and how were you privy to these statistics?
Sing it, Hector!
pro life men = real stand up men….pro choice men = wimps cowards and weasels! you know the men who have no backbones and chant “her body her choice”……….but man do i hope she has that darn abortion.
I cannot stand watching a show and they get pregnant and what’s the first thing out of the guys mouth? “I’ll stand by you whatever your decision – if you “keep” the baby I will support you, I’m ready for this – but if you “don’t keep it” it’s totally your choice.”
NO! NO IT’S NOT! MAN UP YOU DIMWIT! It’s YOUR BABY too.
And notice how they rarely ever say the word “abortion”?
“don’t keep the baby”
“take care of it”
TV is so quick to side with the pro-aborts – but try to make it all sugar coated.
Lest anyone misunderstand, I think that the verdict in the Andrea Yates trial (not guilty by reason of insanity) was just. I do believe she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and thus was not sane when she killed her children.
My point was that whereas I believe that Yates’ killing of her five children was clear evidence of insanity (a belief shared by most reasonable, sane people), Hoffman believes it was an act of love. I find that perspective sickening.
“I worked in child protective services”
And you deathscort? Oh irony of ironies. I swear, pro-legal-abortionists are powered by little machines that run on irony.
That being said, Denise is always welcome to go full-on pro-life.
All of our choicers are welcome to become fully pro-life!
eh yeesh sydney that part you added about yates and what those kids went through…..chilling. dont get me wrong i find it to be unthinkable…..it was just that after reading about her i did agree that she was psychotic. it still doesnt excuse it.
yeah and the next time i hear them scream bloody murder “mysogyny” im going to point them to the site CEMETERY OF CHOICE where women are DEAD from your safe legal and rare abortion. many were tossed into a nurses car when an abortion was botched. they bled to death en route because no abortionist wants an ambulance at their clinic. MYSOGYNY pro choicers!
i also suppose that some believe child murder must be just fabulous cuz casey anthony is getting offers to do porn shes getting book deals shes got an offer to work as a stripper. the state of florida bent over backwards looking for caylee. casey knew she was dead. shes the most hated woman in america and you can count me in. justice for caylee!
thanks for the tip ninek….denise come on over and join the pro life team!
good heavens, the above quote posted by Jill is just vile. To equate abortion with maternal love is satanic. Period.
oh and how could i forget the good ol ru486 that will get ridda that darn baby and has killed a few women like holly patterson. just forget that old coathanger. we have come up with better ways to kill. more violence and God in heaven is watching. God will NOT be mocked!
Heather, I believe she was psychotic too. Or evil. I don’t know. I feel like there was no justice for those murdered children. Just my opinion though.
I mean Jeffrey Dahmer exhibited psychotic behavior when he was a kid. Normal kids don’t torture and kill animals. Jeffrey Dahmer was crazy enough to eat his victims and live with their dismembered ribcages in his bathtub and barrels of their rotting remains in his apartment. Should he have been let off the hook for the horror he committed?
I just don’t think “being insane” should be a “get off scott free” card. Again, just my opinion.
oh sydney i agree. i dont see yates ever walking the streets again. interesting dahmer is from Bath Ohio…..not far from me. i believe his dad still lives there. he got his in the end now didnt he?
aaaaaaagh misogyny sorry for typo. i never even use the word cuz its stoooooopid. pro aborts love it.
sydney …..sould he be let off the hook? no way! but i believe he was going to be in prison for the rest of his life until he was murdered in prison.
well g nite all. heathers lil.fingers are gettin tired on my tiny keyboard. typos typos and tired;/
Yeah, Heather. What happened with Santa? No laptop? LOL :)
If abortion is criminalized, will it again be pushed into the shadows? In other words, will it be spoken of as Deanie’s mother in “Splendor in the Grass” spoke of it to Deanie, saying in a whisper, “She had to have one of those awful operations.”
I gave my father “Splendor in the Grass” for Christmas. I don’t identify with the young woman who was a “bad girl” and had the awful operation but with the good girl who was driven out of her mind.
joyfromillinois says:
January 18, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Am I understanding correctly that the woman who wrote the article owns an abortion clinic? One that provides for 2nd trimester abortions, to boot?? Of course she thinks that abortion is ok – it’s the way she makes her livelihood. Also – Denise, et al – the cure of being relieved of the responsibilities of motherhood is to have your child placed for adoption. And in many states, if you want a relationship with that child and his/her new family, that normally can be done. Then women can play the piano, ride horses or have any dream they want, and still limit their motherly responsibilities. Just in case one does not know: for the 1+ million abortions each year, there are nearly an equal amount of couples waiting to adopt children. And this includes children with disabilities. So the real question: if one does not want the responsibilities of motherhood, and there are alternatives, and the difficulties in having so many couples wanting to adopt, but can’t due to the lack of available children due to abortion – why aren’t women taking that route? That way one’s responsibilities are upheld, and no child’s life is forfeited.
(Denise) Joy, are you aware of the “anti-life” connections with adoption? Do you know the ways adoption is very strongly statistically linked with violence? Carla doesn’t want me to discuss these facts on this blog, so you can email me at Janatrude@aol.com for the info.
Adoption has always been available. It is the LEAST POPULAR outcome for a problem pregnancy. The vast majority who have babies, raise babies. Many more abortions are performed than babies are placed for adoption.
Someone on this blog believes this is simply a matter of advertising. Is that what you believe?
Is there any reason that girls and women, in massive numbers, are not carrying to term and placing for adoption?
Regarding my position on abortion: I despise it. I’ve read that as many as 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. in 1968 and have read that abortion is widespread where it remains illegal. IMO, the way to attack abortion is to ensure that pregnancies are a source of joy rather than panic. Much can be done toward this goal.
hans at and t set up my big computer and left saying everything was in working order. then i went to get on and it wasnt working . they wanted more money to send a tech out. i said “no you shoulda had it in working order when your guy left. i think i shall call and complain though. im pretty ticked. i think santa hates me;(
oops shoulda said the tech left and said it was working. liar! anyway @ denise please forget about the old days of abortion and come over to our side. im glad to hear you despise abortion! so do we. come on over here full time and be a good voice for the unborn! c mon from one bio reader to another;)
“IMO, the way to attack abortion is to ensure that pregnancies are a source of joy rather than panic.”
Right, Denise. We need to everything we can to support and encourage women. However, this will not mean that everyone will always feels joy or won’t feel panic. This is not something that can absolutely be assured. Some people are bound and determined to remain victims and joyless.
Just like we wouldn’t kill someone’s child after birth because their child is not bringing the joy the parent expects, we don’t kill their child before birth.
“Is there any reason that girls and women, in massive numbers, are not carrying to term and placing for adoption?”
Yes. It all boils down to a lack of agape (sacrificial love). This is the type of love Christ commanded us to have for each other and the fact that Christians make up over 80% of women having abortions is a horror beyond words.
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13
any “christan” woman who has an abortion is a backslidden christian or not one at all.
again Lrning where did you get that info. that christian women abort? that cannot be correct.
Regarding my position on abortion: I despise it. I’ve read that as many as 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. in 1968 and have read that abortion is widespread where it remains illegal.
Don’t believe everything you read, kid. 9_9
Denise, there are women who DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO TO HELP THEM DURING PREGNANCY-they just don’t want to have to deal with any of it. There is nothing to be done about those kinds of women except to make abortion illegal. Sorry, but that’s just how it is, because as it stands, no contraception is 100% effective.
But seriously…how many articles about how numbers of “illegal and unsafe” abortions were and are being fabricated does Jill have to post here before you’ll listen to reason and get that propaganda out of your mind? I’m sorry your mom seemed to jack you up mentally so badly. :(
Lrning says:
January 19, 2012 at 9:08 am
“Is there any reason that girls and women, in massive numbers, are not carrying to term and placing for adoption?” Yes. It all boils down to a lack of agape (sacrificial love).
(Denise) Could it be that even girls and women who PLAN to place babies for adoption decide to keep after carrying for the full nine months and giving birth? Her body has been prepared by the pregnancy to nourish the baby. It seems to me that there is a bond in place by the carrying to term.
Also, are you aware of the anti-life things associated with adoption? I can’t specify what they are but anyone planning to place for adoption or to adopt is entitled to know them. So is society as a whole which has to deal with them.
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
37% Protestant, 31% Catholic, 18% Evangelical/Born-Again
Those might have been old numbers. The latest I saw from Guttmacher don’t include Evangelical numbers. They show 37% Protestant and 28% Catholic, so 65% Christian. Still a horror.
xalisae says:
January 19, 2012 at 9:24 am
Regarding my position on abortion: I despise it. I’ve read that as many as 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. in 1968 and have read that abortion is widespread where it remains illegal. Don’t believe everything you read, kid. 9_9 Denise, there are women who DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO TO HELP THEM DURING PREGNANCY-they just don’t want to have to deal with any of it. There is nothing to be done about those kinds of women except to make abortion illegal. Sorry, but that’s just how it is, because as it stands, no contraception is 100% effective.But seriously…how many articles about how numbers of “illegal and unsafe” abortions were and are being fabricated does Jill have to post here before you’ll listen to reason and get that propaganda out of your mind?
(Denise) I used to read biographies frequently. When I read bios of women, abortion was a recurrent theme. Jayne Mansfield was an exception in being a heterosexually active woman who never aborted. However, bios of women tended to include abortion. Marilyn Monroe had multiple abortions. Lillian Hellman had one. Anais Nin had one. It seems the rule rather than the exception.
Of course, there were women who were never heterosexually active and those women didn’t have abortions.
Denise, of course women change their minds about adoption and keep their babies. I’m talking about the women procuring 1.2 million abortions per year. Those are deaths that could be avoided in HUGE numbers if we Christians did as Jesus commanded us.
xalisae says:
January 19, 2012 at 9:24 am
Regarding my position on abortion: I despise it. I’ve read that as many as 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. in 1968 and have read that abortion is widespread where it remains illegal. Don’t believe everything you read, kid. 9_9
(Denise) Then is it possible that there really aren’t that many abortions now?
I’ve suggested before that, relatively speaking, we could be living in a low abortion time period.
You’re suggesting that MILLIONS OF DEATHS EACH AND EVERY YEAR is “low”?!
ONE would be too high!!
Denise Noe says:
Then is it possible that there really aren’t that many abortions now?
I’ve suggested before that, relatively speaking, we could be living in a low abortion time period.
*********************************************
No.
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/885/26/
Amber Currie says:
January 19, 2012 at 10:22 am
You’re suggesting that MILLIONS OF DEATHS EACH AND EVERY YEAR is “low”?!
ONE would be too high!!
(Denise) I was told not to believe everything I read. How can we be sure about present abortion statistics?
It could be low by past standards. That was what I speculated.
Denise – you seriously think that Planned Parenthood and the other abortion mills are lying about how high their numbers are in their reports each year?!
If they were going to lie – they’d say they did LESS abortions, not more!
Denise – as you see, there are many reasons that women do not adopt out – but let me tell you of one situation that I encountered while sidewalk counseling:
There was an older woman who brought in a young woman for an abortion. In her personal story, the older woman placed a youngster for adoption before there were laws allowing the birth mother to have some info, and indeed a relationship in some sense with their youngster and their new family. For her, this was a psychological burden. So much so, that instead of helping this young pregnant woman with love and compassion, she counseled the pregnant woman to abort her baby and to aid her in that. Misplaced compassion.
Her misery lead her to help another to great sin, to harm another, and to end up with whatever effects the abortion would have on her. Not understanding the ramifications, and well-meaning, her helping and aiding this young woman – based on her feelings, but not on facts of adoption today. And certainly not understanding that this was a direct killing of another, one’s own child.
Once the baby is dead, the baby is dead.
A woman who carries to term and gives birth, has rights, and will make decisions regarding adoption/parenting.
I, myself, am a God-mother of a youngster adopted from China. The birth-mother of that youngster saved that girl’s life. Her adoptive parents are doing a great job, and that young lady is now about to graduate from high school. She was allowed to live, and indeed in China, her birth mother took a big chance of prosecution by the State for allowing her pregnancy to go to term, and saving the youngster.
We must protect all life – and when there are choices to make, as a civilized people we wish that everyone would make a choice for the least harm to another.
Is the unborn a member of the human race? yes. Living – yes (science proves it). Pregnancy is temporary, death is forever.
We hope that women would be courageous and loving in their decision – and the loving and truly life-affirming decision is to bring the baby to birth. The decision to parent is the second decision. Whether one parents or places an infant for adoption – both of those decisions allow the child to live.
What we do in life does take work. There are responsibilities and consequences to our actions. I hope and pray that women and men act with true love and true good for the other – and that does not include the intention killing of the unborn.
If I can’t do it to a toddler, a 5 year old or any other human at any other stage, why shall I even consider ending the life of the unborn? Being afraid, overwhelmed, surprised or unprepared are no
If abortion had never been legal, my doctor would have had to offer me prenatal care, or refer me to another doctor. She declared that my pregnancy was risky (I should have gotten a second opinion). She ONLY gave me an abortion referral and the place was a total butcher shop. I tried to console myself that if I had given my child up, I would have been haunted by every child’s face I saw, wondering, is she mine? is he mine?
Instead, I look at people the age my child would be and ask, Why is he not mine? Why is she not mine? I am haunted. Forever. Abortion should never have been legalized and it should be illegal on the entire planet. Adoption is hard, it’s not a perfect solution, but it is life and that’s always better than death.
Denise and others as it applies: “as many as 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. in 1968”.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-former-abortionist-top-pro-life-advocate-bernard-nathanson-dies-at/
Former abortionist, top pro-life advocate Bernard Nathanson dies at 84
A founding member of NARAL, “Nathanson exposed the fact that he and NARAL often lied about key facts and figures in the effort to push the legalization and acceptance of abortion, saying that they were “guilty of massive deception … claimed that there were a million illegal abortions a year in the United States,” he continued, “and the actual figure was close to 200,000.”
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm#fig1
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2000
Table 2 does not show reported legal abortions reaching 1.2 M until 1979.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5511a1.htm
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2003
“In addition, the abortion total for 2000 provided to CDC by central health agencies is 20% lower than that reported for 2000 (the most recent year for which data are available) for the same reporting areas by The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), a private organization that contacts abortion providers directly.”
“‘From 15 weeks to 24 weeks then, you’re talking about money … Gosnell charged his patients on a sliding scale … with late-term abortions sometimes costing $2,500 or more.” Page 81 of the Grand Jury Report on Kermit Gosnell
Unreported or lying abortion figures. You decide. If ‘off the books’, were the monies reported to the IRS? Bet not!
Ineffectual? incompetent? Not doing your job? Like the PennState or PA health officials who did not or would not look into their cases, some in the IRS need to be FIRED!
Poor choices will make you poor. Sex maniac? Rapist? Can’t say no to temptation? Drug addict? Addicted to tobacco, alcohol, etc? You are costing the health system and yourself unnecessarily. Our morals and now our finances are in the same hole. God help us all!
For JoyfromIlliinois: Are you aware of how adoption is related to violent death?
If not, email me Janatrude@aol.com
LOL this is like a comedy show!!!!
Yep, those pesky adoptees – they are so violent all because their momma did hack them to a billion little pieces!!!
83% of serial killers were raised by their own parents, Denise.
I don’t want to see any more of your wacky “adoptees will be violent” stuff, so THANK YOU for sparing us and posting your contact information instead. I have friends who were adopted but they are all over 45 years of age. Do you think that today’s average 25 year old has as many adopted friends as I do? I am certain they do not. And I am certain because since 1973, at least 1/4 of all the children who could have been adopted ARE DEAD. Some estimates put the number of abortions at 1/3 of all pregnancies since 1973.
Pregnant women do feel fear and anxiety about birth. Of course they do! They’re pregnant with a human being! Even mothers of planned children have fear and anxiety. IT’s NORMAL. Abortionists profit from this fear. You, Denise, are on the wrong side. Choose life!!!! It’s better than death!!!!!
Denise, do you not read the awful comments regularly typed here by the other abortion advocates like Joan and CC and Reality?? Look in the mirror, do you really want to be in the same group as they are? Wouldn’t you rather be pro-life?? We are on the defensive side of a war against the smallest of human children. Do you honestly want to be on the opposing side? The side of poison and dismemberment? Really and for true?? Can’t you see that people on this website have hope for you? Don’t you want that same hope for yourself?
ninek says:
January 19, 2012 at 1:57 pm
83% of serial killers were raised by their own parents, Denise.
(Denise) And the Menendez brothers weren’t adopted. That doesn’t negate certain very strong statistical links between adoption and the violent taking of human life.
<<I don’t want to see any more of your wacky “adoptees will be violent” stuff, so THANK YOU for sparing us and posting your contact information instead.
(Denise) Statistical links.
For Ninek: We both want to sharply decrease abortions. We just disagree as to how much effect an outright ban has.
I support many policies that I believe would decrease abortion: a guaranteed annual income and a family allowance, popularizing non-reproductive forms of partnered sexual activity, making it easier for people to avoid in-person contact, chaperoned dating, and research into improved contraception to name just a few. I also support efforts to ensure more people of reproductive age marry.
If these policies were in effect, it seems to me we would see abortion plummet.
Banning isn’t always the best way to deal with a problem as America’s experience with Prohibition showed.
Here it is, Denise.
Abortion was illegal until 1973. It became legal. We have not yet made it illegal after 39 years of it.
HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU OR I POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT IT WILL BE LIKE when abortion is made illegal again?
My hope and prayer is that a culture of life will be built again. The family will be strengthened and women and girls in unplanned pregnancies will be offered help and hope, compassion and encouragement. AND they will not seek abortions as they will be illegal. Duh.
We are not talking about Prohibition.
You are speculating at best and fear mongering at worst.
Agreed, Carla.
Ahhh…the demonization of adoption to make abortion seem more “palatable”. More and more, I wonder about the true stance of some folks. Murder is abhorrent, but some people who live with others get abused, so we should allow murder, since some are going to suffer anyway…You see how that sounds? We make a moral judgement about murder, and make it unlawful. Yet, when it comes to an unborn child it is a choice? Really?
Many of the things you mention, Denise, seem reasonable (excepting abortion, of course). Yet, when we loosen the moral compass for us and our children, we find ourselves with more and more problems…The sexual revolution freed no one, it created more slaves to uncontrolled sexuality. Stores like Abercrombie selling padded bras to our little girls, the Girl Scouts putting out “Happy, Healthy and Hot” to girls, all the while kicking their parents out of the room while they did it, for plausible deniability. Planned Parenthood and the Girl Scouts? In which universe? . This is a straight up RADICAL feminist agenda. I add the word RADICAL, because these are the women who want to be LIKE men, instead of equal to men. It has nothing to do with orientation, it has everything to do with wanting to be a man, and deciding that sexuality is the palce to show how much you are like one, or at least the stereotype of one. Free to have sex with whoever whenever, without regard to feelings, or attachments. Sorry, but behaving like a tool is not my idea of evening the tables. Abortion fit’s in, because just like the male “tool” they model themselves after, they can do treat the resultant child of “free” (sarcasm) love as less than human.
“We both want to sharply decrease abortions. We just disagree as to how much effect an outright ban has.”
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG: I DON’T WANT TO DECREASE ABORTION, I WANT TO END IT ENTIRELY.
Killing fewer isn’t an option. Killing ZERO is my goal. I may never be able to reach it, but I’m not going to embrace defeat out of some misplaced sense of pessismism.
And Denise, for crying out loud, get yourself educated!!!!!!!!!! Communist countries have astronomical abortion rates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Communism (guaranteed income) ONLY INCREASES ABORTION EVERY SINGLE PLACE IT EXISTS!!!!!!
See, this is why I get so darn tired of you. You suggest “other forms of sex” which could easily be implied that you think pedophelia and bestiality are a-ok. Because after all, they don’t result in pregnancy either. You cannot see how disordered your ideas really are. And I don’t care personally, but as a pro-life advocate I care very much that you are constantly all over this website (and God only knows where else) promoting your ideas.
Margaret Sanger was a bitter rotten human-hater, and do you see where one person can have such a profound influence on so many people? YOU ARE BLIND TO WHO YOUR ALLIES ARE, DENISE! YOUR ALLIES ARE MARGARET SANGER AND KERMIT GOSNELL!!
WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE THE FREAK UP!!!!!
AMEN NINEK!
ninek says:
January 19, 2012 at 6:02 pm
“We both want to sharply decrease abortions. We just disagree as to how much effect an outright ban has.”
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG: I DON’T WANT TO DECREASE ABORTION, I WANT TO END IT ENTIRELY.
Killing fewer isn’t an option. Killing ZERO is my goal. I may never be able to reach it, but I’m not going to embrace defeat out of some misplaced sense of pessismism.
(Denise) Then we’ve got to do a LOT MORE than make it illegal. It was banned when Jackie Smith, Barbara LoFrumento, Lillian Hellman, Marilyn Monroe, Margot Kidder, Barbara Tuchman and many, many other women had abortions. Outlawing it may be a step but it is only a step among many other steps.
<<And Denise, for crying out loud, get yourself educated!!!!!!!!!! Communist countries have astronomical abortion rates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Communism (guaranteed income) ONLY INCREASES ABORTION EVERY SINGLE PLACE IT EXISTS!!!!!!>>
(Denise) I sometimes read that people cite “not being able to afford a child” as a reason for abortion. A child allowance would end that reason.
How do you know? What if the child allowance isn’t enough? What if the woman feels she needs more to be able to “afford a child”.
@Denise: why should my tax dollars go to someone who has irresponsible sex? Child allowance? Are you kidding? I thought that’s what welfare was for.
Child allowance is the 5 bucks your dad gives you for helping him clean the garage, people. LOL!
lol that’s what I thoguth, too, ninek
Let’s not overlook a very important component. Which mothers are aborting? They’re not all in dire situations. Many are in stable relationships, with some money, and are pregnant with planned children. Now, ask yourself again, why? Well, I think that my former doctor referred me because she was more afraid of malpractice lawsuits. I think that a lot of doctors are pushing abortion for just that reason.
After what happened to me, I was extremely frightened of doctors for a long time. The next one I met was a jewel of a woman. She admitted to me how many of her classmates were burdened with malpractice premiums higher than what I made in a whole year. She admitted that it was tempting to get out of the baby delivery business because as she put it, “everyone wants a perfect baby” and that’s not always possible.
The abortion industry is a business. And as warm and fuzzy as we want to be to the moms, their own problems are not the sole reason that the abortion business exists.
$5??? I got ripped off! LOL When I asked why do I have to help? Dad always told me “because you do it best” and I was just arrogant enough to believe it!
I still have a nice clean garage though (that you can even park in!) and my kids now have chores because they do them best.
Doe says:
January 19, 2012 at 7:47 pm
@Denise: why should my tax dollars go to someone who has irresponsible sex? Child allowance? Are you kidding? I thought that’s what welfare was for.
(Denise) I believe welfare should be abolished and replaced with a guaranteed annual income and a family allowance system. Welfare is means-tested and decreases when someone starts to make money. The child allowance would automatically go to anyone who has prime responsibility for a child.
If a child is brought up badly, your tax dollars may go to arrest, prosecute and imprison that child.
Denise: “Can’t afford a child”
That statement is based in envy and greed. I ask some people, “How many kids did your grandma have?” The answer is usually a large number. I then slap my cheek and say, “She must have been RICH!!! Section 8 only allows 2 per bedroom. What a big house she had!!!” They laugh at that point. They realize on some deep level that most of the crap we want/have to have and spend our money on did not exist in Grandma’s time. She spent her time & money on her kids, allowing them to be born and having their babies.
Have you heard the story of Donald Trump pointing out a bum on the street to his girlfriend, Marla Maples, saying that the bum was richer than he was. Donald was millions of dollars in debt and facing bankruptcy while the bum owed nothing to anyone.
Steven Massof, an unlicensed medical school graduate working for Kermit Gosnell, “was paid in cash $300 per week and an additional $30 for each second or third-trimester abortion patient” slitting the necks ofjust born babies. So much for that needing that college degree.
Before one gets all ‘hot and bothered’ about someone or something, stop and think if it is necessary and the possible consequences. To paraphrase an old saying, “If you can’t afford consequences, don’t do it.” Drop the nonsense of ‘non-vaginal sex’ which is part of lust. If one does not want a baby by the other person, want to deal with their disease be it a STD or something genetic, or deal with their family, STAY AWAY from them. Why waste your time, health, and long time happiness for a fleeting moment of what might not be much pleasure. Do not get addicted to anything if you do not like the long-term consequences. Love is based on thoughts of heaven now and the hereafter while lust makes for hell on earth.
Denise: “irresponsible sex” i.e. Lust.
How many have been killed just because they got the girl pregnant … sometimes just thinking she was pregnant? This is way before a child is born, adopted out, and grown. How much better would it be if people were taught why they should see the consequences of their actions and not end up full of regrets? Both male and female can have a broken heart, ruined reputation, STD’s, etc. Is this ‘the best you can do or the least you will accept’?
BTW, according to the CDC, HPV has been found in/on the pubic area, upper thighs, oral and ocular locations and may be secondary to autoinoculation, sexual activity other than intercourse, or spread from a nearby genital wart site. See “STD Curriculum for Clinical Educators Genital Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Module” Slide 23 http://www2.cdc.gov/stdtraining/ready-to-use/Manuals/hpv/hpv-notes.doc
See also EYE DISORDERS VENEREAL EYE DISEASE which lists information about Herpes, Gonorrhea & Chlamydia among others. http://www.perret-optic.ch/optometrie/pathologie_oculaire/patho_venerienne/patho_vene1_gb.htm
Okay, adoption bad, abortion better, got ya Denise. Since most popular rich celebrities get abortions, they are a great template for women, got ya Denise.
Most Germans in the 1940s killed no one….yet they had the same attitude as the “I hate abortion, but support choice” crowd does today. Killing others for convenience and “comfort”, whether national or personal, is wrong, and will never be right.
Hector says:
January 20, 2012 at 8:35 am
Okay, adoption bad, abortion better, got ya Denise.
(Denise) Then you’ve badly misconstrued the point, Hector. I just used that as an example of how we inevitably pay for people having irresponsible sex. Few people want to get rid of the prison system but we have that system, in large part, because people had irresponsible sex.
Abortion is not good. What is good are pregnancies that are joyfully welcomed.
“sexual activity other than intercourse” is what you tend to promote.
“Secondary to autoinoculation” means one touched a sore and spread it to another part of one’s own body.
Not nice of the CDC to use terms to hide information. How many would use ‘ocular’ instead of eye or even know the term ‘autoinoculation’? Right up there with teaching the young children in school the correct names of sexual parts. I learned ‘CAT’ by seeing a picture of one. Are they showing pictures? Sounds like porn!
Um-m-m. Think the children are going to pay attention to anything in the next class when their heads are full of those pictures??? Porn sure leads to LUST and, probably, visits to the neighborhood clinic for birth control, STD treatment and maybe an abortion. Is that furthering ‘good business practices’? Sounds more like ‘hell on earth’ to me!
Sex outside of marriage is irresponsible. Notice I didn’t use the wimpy parent catch phrase “committed relationship”.
What sticks in many craws, Denise, is the problem we have with “don’t do it” and your stance of, “if you’ve got to, find another way”. Again, I personally feel the same conflicts…but then I look back to see what happens in a society and culture that is permissive. NAMBLA, Greek pedophiles getting disability, it seems the permissiveness of the culture keeps pushing, and no one has pushed back. Abortion is not, and has not been the answer. This society has gotten spoiled by it’s sense of entitlement. Raising children? Hard…difficult…yet the most wondrous task you will ever accomplish, if you leave your selfishness at the door.
Making love…also beautiful…but it has been perverted, because only erotic lust is payed attention to, and it’s ugliness gets dressed up in fine clothes to make it seem respectable. Love, to truly be real, is trinitarian. Erotic LOVE, not lust, is a part of that equation…it united man and woman AND creates life…Filial love is that between brothers and sisters, a communal love for each and all of us…agape love is love of God…those three working together, are what marriages are made of, loving each other, and God being a part of that love.
Today’s society has removed 2 of the three…and on top of that, it wants to be “respected” and wants everyone to be “tolerant”…I won’t address the gay issue here…I am talking about the heterosexual one…today’s society wants love to be all about the exchange of fluids and not the exhange of vows, and promises of fidelity. To allow supposedly represssed sexuality to run rampant is using the same argument and applying it to a murderer…”listen Bubba T, you can’t use guns or knives…but we’re going to allow you to do what you want, as long as you don’t use those two”. It sounds idiotic when we substitute something different huh? This does not mean you are an idiot for advocating cahnging sexual behavior Denise…but some things need more and tighter reins in a society. Sexuality is one of them.
As to abortion…pregnancy is temporary, death is forever…I think I saw that on here earlier…and it is true. You don’t burn your car if you run out of gas…and you don’t kill a child, if 7 or 8 months later, that child will enter the world.
So — having your own flesh and blood scraped or sucked away, or in my mother’s case, burnt alive and discarded in a bucket, is a loving act?
That’s a very strange way of thinking.
phillymiss says:
January 20, 2012 at 12:41 pm
So — having your own flesh and blood scraped or sucked away, or in my mother’s case, burnt alive and discarded in a bucket, is a loving act?
(Denise) Did you survive an abortion?