(Prolifer)ations 1-20-12
by Susie Allen, host of the blog, Pro-Life in TN, and Kelli
We welcome your suggestions for additions to our Top Blogs (see tab on right side of home page)! Email Susie@jillstanek.com.
- At Catholic Herald, Barbara Curtis recalls her own story of transformation from a pro-abortion feminist (viewing her “right to choose” as “a sacrament”) to a pro-life mother of 12. Regarding feminism, she writes:
Perhaps it’s time to wake up and slap some cold water on your faces. It’s time to stop the hypocrisy, to sever the ideals of feminism — dignity for women, equal status, equal opportunity, equal pay — from what has become a religious and one-dimensional devotion to death.
From Barbara’s MommyLife blog also comes this funny graphic on co-sleeping:
- Vital Signs links to more information on Canada’s growing problem of sex-selection abortion, and how medical professionals are attempting to combat the practice which has increased with the influx of Asian and Indian immigrants.
- Pro-Life Action League discusses new Chicago regulations that could make it harder for common citizens to assemble and practice their right to free speech.
- Pro Life Wisconsin profiles the faithful sidewalk counselors at the now-closed Northern Illinois Women’s Center in Rockford (pictured left). One counselor says she was joined outside by a woman from Poland who remarked that “the stone on the outside of the building are the same kind of stone used in Dachau” concentration camp.
- Star Studded Super Step’s Andy Moore and wife Daena were surprised to discover, in their search for prenatal development information about their son, that the popular BabyCenter.com website advocates the use of abortifacient Plan B as a backup to regular birth control:
The accuracy of BabyCenter.com’s claim that ECP prevents pregnancy depends upon the understanding of when pregnancy begins. Advocates of abortion like to tell us that pregnancy begins upon implantation, however the medical community is by no means in agreement on this subject.
Ultimately, regardless of when pregnancy technically begins, BabyCenter.com is advocating the killing of human beings at just a few days old, by use of the Morning After pill.
- John Smeaton responds to the claims of the pro-abortion World Health Organization and Guttmacher Institute that illegal abortions are on the rise globally:
Promoters of legal abortion have a proven track-record of making wildly exaggerated claims about the number of so-called ‘unsafe’ or illegal abortions. Such false claims were made in 1967 to lobby for the UK’s Abortion Act and in the 1970s to justify the US’s Roe v Wade decision. The late Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the US abortion pioneer who became pro-life, admitted that he deliberately exaggerated the estimated number of illegal abortions five-fold when campaigning for abortion legalisation.
The truth is that countries with strict laws against abortion have lower maternal death rates than countries which allow abortion widely. Ireland, where abortion is banned, has one of the world’s best maternal health records. Legalised abortion does nothing to improve medical care.

Some of you have said that abortion was extremely rare when it was illegal and instantly became common when it was legalized.
Why would something that was extremely rare when illegal immediately become extremely common when legalized?
That something is legal doesn’t automatically make it popular.
For example, I often like to walk around in public with a weight in my hand. This is legal. But I’ve never seen anyone else do it. There are many things that are legal but rare.
Why would abortion be rare when illegal but its popularity jump as soon as legalized?
Denise, do you think that if murdering people who inconvenienced you was legalized that the instances of murder would increase?
Kel says:
January 20, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Denise, do you think that if murdering people who inconvenienced you was legalized that the instances of murder would increase?
(Denise) No, I do not. That vast majority of people would not commit murder because they are repulsed by it. For example, if there is one group of people no one envies, it is those who have accidentally killed someone as tragically many people do in auto accidents, less commonly gun accidents, and other mishaps.
The article by Barbara Curtis is must reading for all proabort women.
The “vast majority” of people don’t have abortions, either.
What if a campaign was waged which told people “Murder isn’t wrong. Sometimes it’s necessary”? Would that make a difference? Do you think that, over time, it might change people’s thinking on the subject or lead to a certain “acceptance” of it?
Or what if only a certain *type* of person was allowed to be murdered? Like people with red hair or a certain physical characteristic. And what if a campaign was waged in the public square that began to dehumanize people with that certain physical characteristic? What if we classified them in different terms not used for others in society?
Add in those factors, as we have had with abortion, and you have a gradual, societal acceptance of murder.
Hey, Denise, did you know that the vast majority of Germans didn’t commit murder in the Holocaust? But did you know that the vast majority did nothing to stop it?
Why do you think that is?
Denise,
At the end of the day, it isn’t even about commonality; it’s about the right to life. Your right to life should not be contingent on the amount of desire others may have to take it. As long as (good) laws have existed, there have been people who have deliberately broken them. But this does not mean that laws are bad, and surely it cannot mean that victims of crime should no longer even have their rights legally recognized.
For example, if there is one group of people no one envies, it is those who have accidentally killed someone as tragically many people do in auto accidents, less commonly gun accidents, and other mishaps.
I’m not talking about unintentional killing, here. Do you actually believe that murder would NOT increase if it were made legal?? We have a great amount of murder even now, and it’s illegal, and may carry with it the death penalty. If life in prison or death is not a deterrent for people, how many more murders might we see if people are to incur zero penalties for the taking of another’s life?
Wow, some GREAT quotes by Barbara Curtis:
“But who’s extreme? For all the left’s lip service to multiculturalism, pro-abortion evangels — like missionaries — spend vast amounts of time, energy and taxpayer money crusading into the Third World to bring the “good news” of family planning to primitives whose backward belief systems stand in the way of their salvation. Like religious zealots arriving on your doorstep when what you really need is an ambulance, they rush to ravaged places like Haiti with abortion kits aplenty for those in dire need of more life-sustaining commodities like medicine, food and water.”
and
“How about it, Sisters? Especially those of you who rode the crest of the Second Wave with me: Did you ever dream that this was where we were headed? Did you ever dream we would call any male politician a friend to women — no matter how flagrantly he exploited them — as long as he continued to back abortion on demand? Did you ever dream we would enter the realms of denial required to condone a procedure in which a perfectly viable infant is pulled feet first through the birth canal until all but her head is exposed, stabbed in the skull to suck out her brains, delivered dead and sold to the highest bidder for body parts.”
Kel says:
January 20, 2012 at 6:23 pm
For example, if there is one group of people no one envies, it is those who have accidentally killed someone as tragically many people do in auto accidents, less commonly gun accidents, and other mishaps.
I’m not talking about unintentional killing, here. Do you actually believe that murder would NOT increase if it were made legal??
(Denise) I believe it would not greatly increase. The vast majority of people are restrained by their own consciences rather than by the law. I believe that most people, even if they thought they could get away with it, would not murder anyone.
Again, just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is common. But people have told me that abortion is extremely rare when it is illegal and then becomes extremely common when it is legalized. That doesn’t seem to make sense.
“What if a campaign was waged which told people “Murder isn’t wrong. Sometimes it’s necessary”?” – like state execution do you mean?
You are comparing apples with oranges with your analogies. ‘Personhood’ remember?
Kel says:
January 20, 2012 at 6:23 pm
For example, if there is one group of people no one envies, it is those who have accidentally killed someone as tragically many people do in auto accidents, less commonly gun accidents, and other mishaps.
I’m not talking about unintentional killing, here. Do you actually believe that murder would NOT increase if it were made legal?? We have a great amount of murder even now, and it’s illegal, and may carry with it the death penalty. If life in prison or death is not a deterrent for people, how many more murders might we see if people are to incur zero penalties for the taking of another’s life?
(Denise) Even when legal, abortion is physically painful, expensive, and potentially dangerous to the female who aborts. Thus, there are in fact “penalties” for aborting. Yet masses of girls and women who would have just accepted the pregnancies when it was illegal and carried to term supposedly abort when it is made legal.
Amazing. A person could read a few things and be so profoundly affected, but then all the other information in the world can’t penetrate the same cranium.
Marketing.
Marketing.
MARKETING.
I did not go to my ob/gyn in order to procure an abortion referral. But that is all she gave me, probably to avoid complications later on (malpractice lawsuits). I think a great many doctors are doing this: recommending abortion to avoid less-than-perfect deliveries which sometimes lead to lawsuits.
But that’s not all. Many abortion workers who have left the business tell us in their own words that they were “counseling” women toward abortion, avoiding fetal development descriptions, etc.
But that’s not all. Bernard Nathanson tells us in his books that the numbers of illegal abortions were DELIBERATELY INVENTED in order to make abortion the booming business it has become today. Abortion is easy money for substandard doctors. Women are ushered in like cattle, their children murdered, the women traumatized by a procedure that takes a short amount of time (for 1st trimester), and nobody sues you because a dead baby is exactly what they paid for.
Readers: I cannot highly enough recommend Bernard Nathanson’s books. He was a founding member of NARAL and instrumental in the establishment of the abortion industry in the United States.
I was born into an innately pro-life environment. It was a foregone conclusion that every pregnancy proceed to delivery/birth.
Today, each and every pregnancy is treated as disposable. I am shocked, constantly, by the pushy and instrusive meddling that pro-choicers do in a pregnant woman’s life. I am shocked by the words and deeds of women in my own family and circle of friends. Ever since the abortion business boomed, people have no hesitation to tell a woman she can and should abort her child. Or that she shouldn’t have any more. One young lady I know is quite well off and would like to space her children closely. But family members are already “counseling” her not to plan to get pregnant again. As if it’s any of their business.
The world has changed, readers, and even if Denise doesn’t want to listen to reason, I hope the rest of you do.
OH, how did I know Trolliality would be on this thread. Ha! *waves* I am not in favor of state execution, fyi, and yes, I think that could be a valid comparison. However, I do see a difference between executing a convicted criminal and killing one’s neighbor, or an innocent unborn child. Maybe you don’t.
Ninek, thank you for your comments.
Reality, your analogy would only be valid if the average citizen were allowed to execute criminals at will. However, it fails because right now criminals get due process of law prior to their execution as conducted by a legitimate authority as the means of protecting society.
If you’re proposing that unborn children receive due process of law prior to their executions, and that they are only executed by legitimate authority as a means of protecting society, then I can support that wholeheartedly — because I can’t think of a single crime of which an unborn child could be found guilty. Can you?
An execution is the state sanctioned termination of the life of a person.
Prisons protect society from criminals, execution is vengence.
An abortion is an individual woman choosing to terminate a fetus, which is not a person.
Remember that vote?
I loved the article by Barbara Curtis but the Pro-Life Wisconsin article is a classic winner with the quote by the pro-abort (probably the abortion mill owner and/or the abortionist) who said to the pro-life protester Mr. Rillott “Only n#$%ers and prostitutes get abortions. Why are you here?” and the pro-lifer kept coming back to protest anyway. WOW!! Talk about a Margaret Sanger award winning quote and making old “Maggie” proud by destroying ”the unfit, human weeds who never should have been born”. WOW! Jill and mods I would love to see you guys report more of the details of this encounter on this blog so everyone will get to read it and be able to comment.
Denise, the law is a great teacher. When some things are illegal, a lot of people have a feeling that it is “wrong”. It is easier to think something isn’t wrong when its legal.
Secondly, coercion is much easier when there are legal clinics you can drive your daughter, wife, girlfriend to and use emotional blackmail or threat of physical or financial harm if she doesn’t abort. Thats what happened to most of my friends.
I believe it would not greatly increase. The vast majority of people are restrained by their own consciences rather than by the law. I believe that most people, even if they thought they could get away with it, would not murder anyone.
Again, just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is common. But people have told me that abortion is extremely rare when it is illegal and then becomes extremely common when it is legalized. That doesn’t seem to make sense.
Wow. You really ARE insane, aren’t you? You know what doesn’t make sense? That you seemingly can read and write about true crime murders all day long, but yet you think that “people are restrained by their own consciences”. AT ALL. The people you read and write about AREN’T EVEN CONSTRAINED BY THE LAW WHEN IT IS ILLEGAL!!!!!
Here is an example:
From 1984 to 1996, the Dutch liberalized the use of cannabis. Surveys reveal that lifetime prevalence of cannabis in Holland increased consistently and sharply. For the age group 18-20, the increase is from 15 percent in 1984 to 44 percent in 1996.
(from the US DEA website)
This is not a bucket of “duh”. This is an entire LAKE of “duh” and at least half an Olympic-sized swimming pool besides.
Ninek: I am shocked, constantly, by the pushy and instrusive meddling that pro-choicers do in a pregnant woman’s life.
(Denise) This hit home. I’ve been guilty of a different type of intrusiveness. Sometimes I’ve seen obviously pregnant women walking dogs in my neighborhood. I’ve asked, “Have you talked to someone about ensuring the baby will be safe around the dogs?” This is because I’ve heard of cases in which the family dog has attacked the new baby out of jealousy. I’ve also heard this can be averted through such measures as putting a blanket around the baby and then — before taking the baby home — giving the blanket to the dog to play with. The pooch then likes the smell — and transfers the liking to the person who has that scent. One neighbor told me she did exactly this and the dog and the baby “love each other.”
xalisae says:
January 21, 2012 at 12:40 am
I believe it would not greatly increase. The vast majority of people are restrained by their own consciences rather than by the law. I believe that most people, even if they thought they could get away with it, would not murder anyone.Again, just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is common. But people have told me that abortion is extremely rare when it is illegal and then becomes extremely common when it is legalized. That doesn’t seem to make sense. Wow. You really ARE insane, aren’t you? You know what doesn’t make sense? That you seemingly can read and write about true crime murders all day long, but yet you think that “people are restrained by their own consciences”. AT ALL. The people you read and write about AREN’T EVEN CONSTRAINED BY THE LAW WHEN IT IS ILLEGAL!!!!!
(Denise) The people I write about in true crime are a mixed bag. Many of them are psychopaths. One of the primary characteristics of this group is the conscience may be completely lacking. Another is that they either don’t take risks into account or may actually enjoy risk-taking: it is exciting to raise the stakes. These are not normal people. They are extremely abnormal.
OTOH, normal people who kill accidentally — I’ve written about some of those — will suffer tremendously. Even otherwise normal people who murder in a sudden temper will suffer for it.
My point is that it seems odd that abortion would be extremely rare when illegal but suddenly skyrocket when legalized. However, I suppose it is POSSIBLE — as I’ve suggested before — that anti-abortion laws promote an attitude of pregnancy acceptance so that almost any female who becomes pregnant responds positively in the sense of: “I’m starting a family” or “May family is growing.” This attitude of automatic pregnancy acceptance would mean a low abortion rate.
“I was born into an innately pro-life environment. It was a foregone conclusion that every pregnancy proceed to delivery/birth.”
And that world is now just another memory of an archaic time when women (and minorities) “knew their place” – a vestige of a way of life that will be relegated to the trash heep of history. The pro-life train has left the station and it’s not coming back – much as you want it to. There is no reason to ban abortion as there is nothing. objectively, wrong with it. It’s just another surgical procedure. Women have tasted freedom (much as you say they really hate it) and they will not allow it to be taken away by zealots and fanatics.
And that world is now just another memory of an archaic time when women (and minorities) “knew their place”
Going to start talking for minorities now, too, CC? Because my hispanic mother’s family is VERY Pro-Life, and we’d just love for you to tell us where “our place” is. @$$.
But, you seem to be confused. Let me correct your statement for you. “And that world is not just another memory of an archaic (a) time when everyone treated their gestating offspring-their children-with respect and consideration.”
Blah. Why is crossed out text an option for composing your message but doesn’t show up in the final post?!
“And that world IS NOT just another memory of A TIME WHEN EVERYONE TREATED THEIR GESTATING OFFSPRING-THEIR CHILDREN-WITH RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION.”
We’re going to get it back. People who oppose equal rights have been on the wrong side of history thus far, and I don’t anticipate that trend changing any time soon. And, seeing as how many WOMEN there are on OUR SIDE, you can’t tell me that YOUR SIDE is fighting for “equal rights”, otherwise, there would’ve been a ton of blacks fighting for “Slaveholder Rights”
Sydney M. says:
January 20, 2012 at 10:35 pm
Denise, the law is a great teacher. When some things are illegal, a lot of people have a feeling that it is “wrong”. It is easier to think something isn’t wrong when its legal.
Secondly, coercion is much easier when there are legal clinics you can drive your daughter, wife, girlfriend to and use emotional blackmail or threat of physical or financial harm if she doesn’t abort. Thats what happened to most of my friends.
(Denise) I have a close friend who used to be something of a “male slut.” He told me, “I probably can’t get anyone pregnant because I have a very low sperm count. Doctors have told me that.”
I asked what he would have done if, by some chance, he had in fact gotten a woman pregnant. He replied, “She would have aborted.”
I said, “What? You’ve got no way of knowing that. You can’t legally force her to abort.”
He said, “No but I would have made her life so miserable she would have aborted just to get some peace.”
Yes. I have tasted the “freedom” of abortion that CC loves.
I wish I could take my “freedom experience” and tell them all to shove it at the mill. I would have flipped them all off had I known the truth of what abortion would do to me and my child and my life!! I would have run out of there as fast as I could have and had my baby.
I am hardly alone in those thoughts or that “freedom experience” CC. 10,000 have registered at Silent No More. Over 5,000 at Operation Outcry. They have all been hurt by this “freedom to kill” that you salivate over.
Don’t you dare try to speak for us!!!
You my dear CC are in for a rude awakening as we are winning. You are on the losing side and history will not be kind to you for your part in promoting and celebrating the deaths over 53 million innocent human beings.
“Don’t you dare try to speak for us!!!”
Beg pardon, Carla, but isn’t that what you attempt to do to the women who weren’t “traumatized” by their abortions? I can’t speak for you, and you can’t speak for me. How about that?
Sick. Freedom gained from the murder of preborn babies. I don’t want it. Don’t speak for me, CC. My freedom is not contingent on a surgical procedure. My femininity is not a burden. My body’s natural ability to reproduce is not a handicap. I am WOMAN. I am MOTHER. I am DAUGHTER. God made me a helpMEET for my husband. Not a helpRULER, not a helpSLAVE. I was made from man’s side to walk beside him, not his feet to be trampled on or his head to rule over him. God MADE ME EQUAL already. I refuse to pay such a high price as my child’s lives or my fertility to be considered “equal” to you or men just because God didn’t grace men with a womb! That is not equal!
Word picture:
I pay $1 for a cupcake. In order to be “equal” to me, i.e. have a cupcake, you must pay $100 for it. Now you and I have cupcakes. Still feel equal?
Why not require men to undergo castration? Require men to get sex reassignment surgery! Why should we women butcher ourselves and our children to be at the same level as men while they change not at all? Because requiring such barbarity would be… well BARBARIC! Yet we’re supposed to believe you, CC, while you trumpet the “freedom” and “equality” gained us by doing just that to ourselves?!?! Insanity!
Keep your “freedom” CC. True freedom comes through Christ. True freedom comes through humble sacrifice and service. True freedom is not won by self-mutilation! Might as well tell me the only way to run free is to cut off my own legs! You just don’t see how backward your logic is! I truly do pray for you CC! You need Christ more than most people I know!
Beg pardon Megs but I most certainly was not speaking for you. I do not speak for women that claim their abortions were the “best thing I ever did.”
That should be quite clear. Well. Not to you I guess.
I am a post abortive mom who regrets that I paid for the death of my daughter at an abortion mill. I speak for and with ALL other moms who regret their abortions.
CC said, “Women have tasted freedom……”
She is most certainly not speaking for me. You are welcome to speak of the “freedom” of your abortion.
“women who weren’t “traumatized” by their abortions?”
Yeah, women who are so free that they can’t stay away from prolife blogs.
“He said, “No but I would have made her life so miserable she would have aborted just to get some peace.” ”
You know men and others push and bully women to kill children and yet you want abortion to remain legal? Not really very pro-woman of you, Denise.
Golly, proabort women are their own worst enemies.
“No but I would have made her life so miserable she would have aborted just to get some peace.”
I have nothing more to add to what Praxedes said other than that you need better friends, Denise.
If abortion used to be extremely rare, WHY was it extremely rare?
Did almost all women automatically accept their pregnancies?
They could have just automatically accepted becoming a mother or having an additional child. If they had any doubts, they might have thought that if things don’t work out with the new baby, there is always the foster care system or placing the child for adoption.
If so, can this attitude of automatic acceptance be brought back even when abortion is legal?
Kate says:
January 21, 2012 at 10:32 pm
“No but I would have made her life so miserable she would have aborted just to get some peace.” I have nothing more to add to what Praxedes said other than that you need better friends, Denise.
(Denise) I was somewhat taken aback by this answer but did not press him on it. The question is rather moot anyway if in fact he has the low sperm count that he says he has an was unlikely to impregnate because of it.
However, the answer is consistent with what I know of this man and his history. If you demand perfection of your friends, it is unlikely you will have many.
Megan says:
January 21, 2012 at 5:16 pm
isn’t that what you attempt to do to the women who weren’t “traumatized” by their abortions? I can’t speak for you, and you can’t speak for me. How about that?
++
Word.
And those pictures at the top of the thread make it look like the adults are going to roll over onto the baby.
“And those pictures at the top of the thread make it look like the adults are going to roll over onto the baby.”
Yeah, the parents at the top decided they didn’t want to parent anymore and are practicing for their rendition of a 4th trimester abortion.
And don’t you dare judge them. They can’t speak for you, and you can’t speak for them.
Word.