All about “October Baby”
UPDATE 3/26, 10:45a: October Baby did very well at the box office this weekend. According to The Hollywood Gossip:
The anti-abortion drama October Baby opened in 390 theaters nationwide this weekend, earning the second-highest per-screen average behind The Hunger Games.
Samuel Goldwyn released the movie, starring Rachel Hendrix, John Schneider and Jasmine Guy, primarily in favorable political environments, earning $1.7M….The movie’s overall gross is technically $1.9 million now….
In an effort to finance a wider release, filmmakers were able to raise $3 million from investors. To promote the film, its backers screened it for church groups and ran advertisements on networks such as Fox News.
While its niche may be relatively small, it is that dedicated, laser-targeted audience that helped make fellow faith-based fare Fireproof, starring Kirk Cameron, one of the most successful independent films of 2008, grossing $33.5 million.
According to Box Office Mojo, October Baby landed in the top 10 for the weekend, quite respectable.
UPDATE 3/26, 10:27a: I went to see October Baby Saturday night with a group of pro-life friends and was pleasantly surprised by a bonus feature that ran during film credits but was not in the cut I was sent to review. Actress Shari Rigby spoke of her own abortion and the healing she had received.
This was a brilliant move on the part of filmmakers, who compasssionately planned ahead for those who would see the movie who had been touched by abortion. Cuts were taken from this profile of Rigby…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1zNt2R5U0&sns=em[/youtube]
Thank you, Shari, for sharing your story.
3/23, 2:52: Pro-life feature film October Baby opens today in theaters nationwide. Find one here and try to see the movie this weekend.
October Baby tells the story of 19-yr-old college student Hannah (Rachel Hendrix), who embarks on a personal fact-finding mission after learning she is an adopted abortion survivor.
Subplots involve finding romance with long-time best friend Jason (Jason Burkey) and repairing the damaged relationship with adoptive father Jacob (John Schneider).
I had a lengthy conversation with co-writer and co-director Jon Erwin during the March for Life in January, a good man. Jon relayed a couple real life subplots to the movie.
One is when abortive mother Shari collapses in remorse after receiving a visit from Hannah. The raw emotion displayed in the scene is real, because actress Shari Rigby really had one and was actually reliving her pain in the moment.
Another is one of the songs in October Baby. Listen for the haunting “Ocean Floor,” sung by real life abortion survivor Gianna Jessen. Download it here. The only video performance I could find was apparently when Gianna performed on Italian television last month….
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXoYkMgvoGg&sns=em[/youtube]
Here’s the problem with October Baby, from review site Rotten Tomatoes…
Movie critics don’t like October Baby so much (notable exception: a decent review in the LA Times), and audiences do.
The easiest explanation is that critics are by and large liberal and the audiences in this case are by and large pro-life.
But ideological differences aside, there is some validity to complaints by critics that portions of the plot are contrived. I have to agree (Would a father really leave it to a doctor to break the news of such a shocking birth history? etc.), although the acting and many of the screen shots are superb.
The film critic in me gives the movie 2-1/2 stars (out of 4), and the pro-lifer in me gives it 4 stars.
I appreciate the passion of the Erwin brothers and that they went to more trouble than I can imagine to get a plausible pro-life story on the big screen. Gianna is proof that the movie’s scenario is real. October Baby has and will generate conversation about abortion. It humanizes those the other side would rather be regarded as blobs of tissue. (Don’t forget Barack Obama voted as state senator to let babies like Gianna and Hannah die.)
As I said at the onset of this post, try to see October Baby this weekend. You’ll be glad you did, and its getting good traction will encourage the making of more pro-life films.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxH2fPhrNEc&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I’m going to see it in just a few hours! Can’t wait.
Michael Medved also gave it 2 and 1/2 stars, but I only heard the end of the review. I’ll check his website. I hope it’s successful.
Very powerful movie. Just saw it tonight and was really moved. It moved a little slow in the beginning, a little disjointed but as the story came together I was enthralled by the way abortion empacted all the characters in the movie. I thought Jasmine Guy gave a terrific performance as a former nurse who was impacted by abortion. God bless.
Loved the movie! LL
ken,
never mind that two black kids in MO tried to burn a white kid alive to show the “white boy” what he “deserve[d]”. But we’ll not hear a peep about THAT. Nor will we hear about how the shooter in the Martin case was getting assaulted by Mr. Martin prior to the gun violence. The media these days absolutely sickens me. Standing on the sidelines watching this as someone who is mixed-race just disgusts me. I’d hate to think about my dad being treated unfairly just because he’s white. Once again, Thanks, Mr. Obama, for all that “healing” you promised.
Reading the reviews on RT from the “Top Reviewers” just makes my blood boil. Treadmill time!
X
What evidence do you have that says trayvon was assaulting Zimmerman?
Also the story isn’t getting publicized because. A black boy was killed but because e was killed, the shooter was identified, and he hasn’t been arrested!!! Despite loads of evidence that he should have been and tried for cold blooded murder.
Shannon,
The case isn’t very clear at the moment. There is a 911 call released that everyone has been saying has Martin calling for help. But the witness who made the call says that it was Zimmerman on the ground being hit by the kid (who is older than his eleven-year-old sweet-faced photo that has been shown in the news).
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-witness-claims-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/
Btw, Zimmerman isn’t ‘white’ he’s ‘hispanic’ (both are stupid classifications, both parties here were/are Americans). The whole thing, tragic and potentially the disaster it may or may not be, as far as the media is concerned is just another way to stir up ‘racial’ tensions by reporting half truths to rial people up.
Thank you, Hans. That is exactly to what I was referring.
Much like bro ken, I don’t really give a flying flip when I have an unpopular opinion. Sorry that I’m not willing to jump on the anti-everyone-who-isn’t-black hatetrain, Shannon.
Regarding the content of this post:
This is why Alfonzo Rachel is right when he says the right needs to become more involved in the entertainment industry. However, he stops a bit short of where we really do need to be, which is, not just being actors/directors/writers/making movies and shows, but also ingrained into every aspect, including and especially movie reviews!
Lol You don’t have to hate white people to be deeply disturbed by the Martin case. Zimmerman should have been arrested. People get arrested for traffic violations for goodness sake.
I hadnt heard about any witness testimony that said Martin was on top. But you know what that’s why we have juries so the witnesses who said they heard Martin crying can talk and the witnesses who heard Zimmerman can talk. So then hopefully we can agree the case can go to trial and the truth will be revealed.
Every single one of us should be concerned with this case and condemn Zimmerman for stupidity at least and murder at best. By his own admission Zimmerman was following Martin. He disobeyed police orders in pursuing him. I know that if a man followed me at night and then approaching me asking what I was doing in my own neighboring I would feel rightly afraid and defensive.
There are a lot of media outlets saying Zimmerman is Hispanic which doesn’t mean much regardless. The media is talking about race because there is absolutely nothing suspicious about a teenager walking ‘slowly” what could have been suspicious about Martin?
Umm…was it late at night? That’d make me suspicious.
How long did it take to arrest Scott Peterson? A long time? Oh, you mean cops can’t arrest people based purely on public opinion, and they have to conclude an investigation first? THE GUBMINT DOESN’T CARE ABOUT WHITE PREGNANT LADIES!
I’m so flipping sick of people yelling “RACISM!” if something even involves a black victim vs. any other race of perpetrator, but if perpetrators are black and it’s OBVIOUS their actions are racially-motivated, nobody is allowed to say jack about it.
Enough with the double-standard! You want Zimmerman strung up by his ankles and covered with fire ants and honey? FINE. But you better be JUST AS pissed about stories like the one I mentioned above where a kid almost died when he was SET. ON. FIRE. just for being white. Enough of this “RACISM!!!!111oneeleventyone!!” bullcrap.
C’mon! Get mad! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom
X,
Scott Peterson didn’t admit to killing his wife did he? I would have been angry if Scott at admitted to killing his wife and was not arrested wouldn’t you? The situations are not at all parallel.
And uhhh i am pretty upset that a white kid was set on fire. I assume the people who set him on fire will go to jail. If the police refuse to arrest them and put them on trial for setting the boy on trial, I also think it would make national news. What do you think of the likelihood is that the black perps won’t go to jail?
I’m interested as to y this case doesn’t seem to elicit the slightly bit of sympathy from you. Even Rick Santorum commented that it was a tragedy. Y do you feel the need to compare it to other murders diminishing its significance? Lacy Peterson was certainly not the only pregnant woman to be murdered, I understand if someone said we should remember that we as a nation should mourn every victim, they would have a point. But I don’t understand rolling our eyes at a victim and saying ehhh people die all the time.
You don’t always arrest someone on the spot. Zimmerman ( his father was Peruvian) was on the phone to 911 over and over while following the kid. Not exactly what a murderer would do. He’s probably guilty of over-zelousness, but it’ll take a while to sort out the charges - if any.
Many of those crying racism are lighter-skinned blacks than Zimmerman is as a Hispanic. This is one confused nation. Let’s wait a bit to let the “content of character” be clearer before we judge what’s what on skin color or ethnicity.
My wife and I had a date this weekend and watched the movie. It was very touching. We both cried!
Very well done and I also didn’t expect the final sharing by actress Shari Rigby. She was very corageous and open-hearted. I saw people lingering after the movie visibly touched!
Also, I learned that the producers of October Baby are giving parts of the profits from screening to crisis pregangnancy centers. It cannot get better than this!
I e-mailed all my frieds to let them know and my parish this morning to see if they can include the flyer in the next bulletin.
I truly enjoyed this movie. Not only for the struggle the young girl was going through and finding the forgiveness so she can heal (I can only imagine the onslaught of the conflicted emotions she had to be suddenly thrust into the knowledge given to her), but also for all the sub-plots that helped to propel the movie forward. To know that SO MANY people HIDE abortion, in silence, in shame, in fear, not wanting others to know, but to then finally being given the chance to openly speak about it, to speak of their fear, their regret, and to know they’ve been forgiven. How powerful! As a post-abortive woman, I know all too well the shame and fear of having to hide such a huge part of my past, the agony of not being able to share my own regret… and then finally finding the courage to speak of it because I had found healing and forgiveness in Christ.
I can’t encourage people enough to go see this movie. I know there are people out there that don’t give a flying fart if they’ve had an abortion, but the vast majority of women DO regret their abortion and if this can help even just one person find the strength to heal, to overcome their shame, then we need to rejoice! There is freedom in being able to speak out and not feeling fear or shame.
xalisae, you can hear some of the 911 calls here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html
Callers describe Trayvon as being on the ground yelling for help. In the background of the third file, you can hear someone screaming for help and screaming “no,” before a gunshot goes off. It seems unlikely that Trayvon was killed in the middle of a fight – even if they had been fighting before, he was apparently on the ground, screaming for help, at the time Zimmerman shot him.
He was on the phone with his girlfriend shortly before being shot, and he described to her that he was actively trying to evade Zimmerman. He ran, according to Zimmerman’s own 911 call, which seems like a fairly rational reaction to being followed by a stranger. (I walk home alone from the store late at night all the time, and you’d better believe that if someone started following me and watching me intently, I’d run.) How likely is it that Trayvon then attacked Zimmerman instead of just continuing to try to get away?
What I wonder, philosophically – about the argument that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman – is, if the “stand your ground” laws allow you to use lethal force when you believe you are being threatened even if you could instead retreat, wouldn’t someone be justified in attacking someone who was following them? I mean, I would be FAR more suspicious of someone following me, than I’d be of someone merely walking home at night – so if the bar for suspicion is as low as “he was walking alone late at night,” Zimmerman exceeded it. By that logic, if Trayvon had had a gun he could have simply turned around and shot Zimmerman – let alone simply fought him – and be legally ok. That seems like the circular logic of this law – it seems designed to escalate threat, or suspicion of threat, into conflict.
Sitting here in tears and I haven’t seen the movie yet.
THANK YOU Shari Rigby for sharing your pain and your healing!!
Oh my. Very powerful movie. Bring tissues. The interview with Shari Rigby at the end was overwhelming, really. Almost the entire audience stayed in their seats for quite a while afterwards.
From the NY Times:
“More slickly packaged than most faith-based fare, “October Baby”gussies up its anti-abortion message with gauzy cinematography and more emo music than an entire season of “Grey’s Anatomy.” But not even a dewy heroine and a youth-friendly vibe can disguise the essential ugliness at its core: like the bloodied placards brandished by demonstrators outside women’s health clinics, the film communicates in the language of guilt and fear.”
lol, u mad, NYT?
Alexandra,
I’ll have to listen to them when I get back home. We’re housesitting for my (almost) in-laws while they’re out of town, and their internet is not the best.
From what I’ve been able to listen to thus far, this whole thing seems stupid. It sounds like something absolutely ignorant that could’ve been fixed by dialogue between the two parties rather than pursuit, struggle, and shooting. If I was Treyvon, I probably would’ve just asked the dude following me wtf his problem was, and if he wanted me to talk to police, I would’ve waited for them and told them to get that fatass off my case. Who knows what else was going on that we’ll find out later (if anything)? I’ve heard reports that Zimmerman spent at least a little time on the ground during a fight (why were they fighting in the first place?), but we’ll just have to see. The whole thing sounds retarded, but what pisses me off to no end is when the go-to for everyone is “RACISM!!!!”. Crime is crime is crime is crime, and unless it happened at a KKK meeting, I’m not buying it, and I hate it because making a big deal out of crap like this and ignoring other crap hurts my country.
Wow! Less than half of the comments on this thread are even remotely related to the thread topic. Looks like an epidemic of ADD has broken out? Lots of people here wanting attention but not paying any to the topic at hand. Just my 2 shekels.
Anyway, I went with some friends to see this movie last night and found it overall very moving, well-acted, and thought provoking. It does start out rather slowly and is somewhat disjointed, and I doubt whether a father in real life would likely leave his adopted daughter’s birth history to a doctor to divulge to her – though someone with the control issues he admits to close to the end of the movie might take exactly that sort of tack, passive-avoidance. At least she wasn’t alone with the doctor when that foot fell.
Jasmine Guy was, I thought, excellent as the nurse, and I thought that the actors who portrayed the main 2 police officers were also very good. Shari Rigby was perfect as the birth mother…as was her sharing of her personal story and catharsis in the course of making the movie at the end. I think I’d give it a 3.5 overall, and highly recommend the movie, and commend the Erwin brothers, and all the cast, for making it.
CC, I disagree with NYT.
Have you watched the movie yourself or you’re just reporting what the lame” media is saying?
Do you still believe them?
I am not surprised that media has negative comments. If this were a violent, sexually charged, controversial, special-effect kind of movie I am sure it would have all the best reviews you can think of.
So I prefer the negative “lame” media reactions!
Crime is definitely crime, and I don’t care that Trayvon was black. I care that a lawfully armed civilian saw a kid walking alone, thought the kid suspicious for any random reason (“…he was walking alone at night”), and pursued that kid. I care that he did not stop pursuing that kid even when told to as part of standard law enforcement practice. I care that whatever happened next, that kid was eventually on the ground screaming for help, and was shot anyway. I care that that man is not being prosecuted for any of this. I certainly think it was a case that could have been fixed with dialogue rather than pursuit, struggle and shooting. I put the primary fault of that at the feet of the pursuer, with what I know of the facts. Because I can tell you right now, if you pursue me, chase me, and catch me, you’d better expect a struggle. That’s not an unforeseeable outcome of pursuing a stranger. There’s a reason police tell you not to do it.
I was followed by a strange man once when I was a young teenager. I definitely did not stop and engage him in conversation, even to ask him why he was following me. I got somewhere safe as fast as I could. Even now as an adult, if I felt safe stopping and talking to the stranger, I definitely don’t think that I would go anywhere that a random person who was following me asked me to go. If someone was following me and then caught up to me and said, “I called the police, you need to wait here with me until they arrive,” I would probably run the eff away. Who knows who’s coming? His friends? His freaking unmarked white rape-mobile? That guy is welcome to ask me who I am or what I’m doing, but if he’s going to follow me and chase me first then he probably isn’t going to get much of an answer besides “get away from me.” He has no authority to detain me, and if he shot when I continued on my merry way home I hope to GOD that he would be prosecuted for it. Yes, it would be better to be detained by a paranoid stranger than to be killed; but what reasonable person walking home from the store would think that those were your only two choices?
If I were a 13-year old kid and some adult man I didn’t know started following me, chasing me when I picked up the pace; and if we somehow interacted enough for him to tell me to NOT GO HOME like I was supposed to be doing, I probably would have run the eff away even faster than I would today. At least I hope I would. Far more kids die from doing what unknown adults tell them to do than from running home.
Even from his own accounts, Zimmerman (who has a remarkable history of 911 calls, as well as complaints from his neighbors about his “watch” tactics) escalated a nonviolent situation into a fatal one. That is not an abnormal story. It happens all the time and it’s tragic. What is abnormal is the possibility that he was legally protected and justified in doing so. To my understanding they are still deciding whether to prosecute him. I am of the opinion that there would probably be very little debate given these facts, in a variety of other situations, and that’s where the accusations of racism tend to come in – not that Trayvon was killed due to his race (though likely that he was seen as suspicious due to his race) but that if a black guy admitted to pursuing and killing another black guy, there wouldn’t be much discussion about whether to prosecute him for that. But it’s entirely possible to talk about this case, and even to think that this case demonstrates flaws in our current legal system, without crying racism.
I don’t think that people are making a big deal out of this and “ignoring” other tragic cases due to race. I think people make a big deal out of cases that illustrate that something in our system is broken. If someone murders another person, that’s tragic. If they get caught and prosecuted, that’s the system functioning as it should. There is no reason to make a big deal because it is an appropriate, just treatment of a tragic situation. It’s when the treatment is inappropriate or unjust that people make a big deal.
“I hate it because making a big deal out of crap like this and ignoring other crap hurts my country.”
Well, I hate that I live in a state where any idiot with a gun can chase down and shoot unarmed teenagers for the crime of walking and not be charged for it. It’s a big deal to me, personally, and a lot of other Floridians, because we would rather not have vigilantes taking us out and getting off.
And I love how everyone acts like Zimmerman had the right to “defend himself” (after he had directly disobeyed the 911 operator not to pursue the kid), but Trayvon didn’t. So, if some person decides to chase me down, possibly even attack me, if I defend myself and get shot it’s “self-defense” for the PURSUER, but I deserved it because I defended myself. That’s disgusting, and it’s not remotely justice.
Alexandra your posts are great, I agree completely.
If I were a 13-year old kid and some adult man I didn’t know started following me
The pictures make him look like he was between 11 and 13, but he was actually 6’3 and 150 lbs, compared to Zimmerman at 5’9″ and 200 lbs. Trayvon was actually going on 17.
This is a tragedy to be sure. What’s also disturbing, to me, is that this is being exploited by people like Jesse Jackson, who, everywhere he goes, sows even more racial discord.
Here’s what a former NAACP leader had to say: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/
Fantastic film. It’s not overly religious nor is there much, if ANY, proselytizing in it. Its not necessary because the evil of abortion is self-evident.
The critics hate this film and are lying about it because of this, and because the film has no swearing, violence, or sex in it.
Yes, Kel, that is my point.
Also, they’ve said they’re still investigating. It’s not as though they’ve come out and said “Tough sh#+, guys. We’re lettin’ him go!” He was on the crime-watch. I’m pretty sure they figure he can hang tight while they rap it up. The sooner it goes to trial, the better, imo, because I’m sick of it. The demonizing and the canonizing of both parties has gone too far.
So, Jack and Alexandra, we are coming into this from two VASTLY different viewpoints. I live in a concealed carry state. I’ve already expressed my intention of getting a permit when we get our handgun. If I made it a habit to be out walking by myself at night, I’d be sure to have both. If I was being followed by someone, I’d be pretty secure in my ability to defend myself, and I’d let them know it. I’d have no problem warning my pursuer that I was armed and that he’d better have a very good reason to be pursuing me as he was. It’s not as if I’d be sitting somewhere by myself, unarmed, like a little lamb waiting for the “white rape-mobile”. Also, I knew already that Treyvon wasn’t a cherubic toddler-he was a 6’3″ 17 year old. I’ve known a 6’3″ 17 year old personally, and trust me, the 3 years it takes to hit 20 doesn’t make much of a difference.
Really goes to show you the amount of bias inherent in the news sources we choose to inform our worldview, huh guys? *giggles at the assumption that the kid was 13 on her way out*
“So, Jack and Alexandra, we are coming into this from two VASTLY different viewpoints. I live in a concealed carry state. I’ve already expressed my intention of getting a permit when we get our handgun.”
Good for you, so do I. I have two guns and a concealed carry permit, since I used to be a security guard and needed it for my job. What I don’t do is carry my guns around my neighborhood so I can chase people who are minding their own business down.
”If I made it a habit to be out walking by myself at night, I’d be sure to have both. If I was being followed by someone, I’d be pretty secure in my ability to defend myself, and I’d let them know it. I’d have no problem warning my pursuer that I was armed and that he’d better have a very good reason to be pursuing me as he was. ”
Cool beans. He was seventeen. Can’t get a carry permit at age seventeen in Florida, the age is twenty-one here. So you are making a completely useless point.
And you just made my freaking point for me. You would defend yourself if someone was pursuing you in the middle of the night, which Martin possibly did when Zimmerman was pursuing him against direct advice from the 911 operator. So MARTIN was the one entitled to self-defense, not Zimmerman, the pursuer. Stand Your Ground (a law I hate anyway) doesn’t protect people who made a situation like Zimmerman did, the lawmaker himself even said so.
” Also, I knew already that Treyvon wasn’t a cherubic toddler-he was a 6’3? 17 year old. I’ve known a 6’3? 17 year old personally, and trust me, the 3 years it takes to hit 20 doesn’t make much of a difference.”
I was perfectly aware of Martin’s age and physical size, thanks. First off, you are hugely hypocritical. I have heard you say that people under eighteen aren’t even capable of consenting sex, but they are perfectly mentally capable of knowing how and when to defend themselves from a pursuer? Second off, are you saying I can go after unarmed men who are bigger than me, act surprised when they fight me off, and shoot them? I would be the innocent party here?
On a side note, wonder if the cops not arresting Zimmerman are the same ones who used to buy cocaine and heroin from me when I was a teenager? ;) I grew up around the area, that department is hideously corrupt.
And X, you are an adult, with an adult’s experience’s and wisdom. A seventeen year old most likely isn’t going to have the same cool response and confidence in a tense situation as you would, or I would. Another reason why Zimmerman, the adult in the situation, should have handled it in a way that didn’t leave a teenager dead. At the very least he deserves manslaughter charges.
As long as everyone is recklessly speculating about Zimmerman v White, let me add one more bit of irrelvant rumor mongering:
Zimmerman was just out shopping for new heart for Dick Cheney.
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Ellis Countym, Texas Party Erupts In Violence; 1 Dead, 7 Injured
http://www.wfaa.com/news/Ellis-County-birthday-party-erupts-in-violence-144156365.html
ELLIS COUNTY — One person was killed and seven others were injured at a girl’s birthday party in rural Ellis County early Sunday morning.
Investigators said four of the victims — including an 11-year-old child — were shot, two were stabbed and two others were beaten outside a Ferris area home. All of the injuries were to adults, except for the 11-year-old.
Investigators think the violence erupted over an argument after the party ran out of beer.
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All the victims were minorities and the shooters were too and most likely most of them were in the country illegally.
That is why the ‘race baiters’ didn’t show up clammoring about ‘hate crimes’.
But the deceased and the wounded are no more or less dead and injured.
Zimmerman’s faux pas is that he was half white or Martin was not all white.
If both had been of the same ethnicity, no one outside Sanford, Florida would have even heard of this crime.
Convene a grand jury a let a panel of local citizens make an informed decision based on the facts and the law, and absent all the street theatre and political pandering.
Wow, Ken, I see nothing about illegals in that story.
It isn’t even a comparable circumstance. In regards to the Martin case, Floridians are mad about the breakdown of our justice system and the dangerous vigilante laws that we have, disregarding the race baiting that some people have pulled. If some people are not charged in the story you posted, over some bs about self-defense, I will be upset about that breakdown in the justice system too.
So, Jack and Alexandra, we are coming into this from two VASTLY different viewpoints. I live in a concealed carry state. I’ve already expressed my intention of getting a permit when we get our handgun. If I made it a habit to be out walking by myself at night, I’d be sure to have both. If I was being followed by someone, I’d be pretty secure in my ability to defend myself, and I’d let them know it. I’d have no problem warning my pursuer that I was armed and that he’d better have a very good reason to be pursuing me as he was. It’s not as if I’d be sitting somewhere by myself, unarmed, like a little lamb waiting for the “white rape-mobile”. Also, I knew already that Treyvon wasn’t a cherubic toddler-he was a 6’3? 17 year old. I’ve known a 6’3? 17 year old personally, and trust me, the 3 years it takes to hit 20 doesn’t make much of a difference.
Xalisae, I’m not against guns but I don’t think that merely being afraid to be detained because you DON’T have a gun means that you deserve to get shot. You know what? Armed or not, I WOULD be afraid to stay with a strange man who had been following me. I wouldn’t sit there waiting for the “white rape-mobile” either – I’d LEAVE because that guy has NO RIGHT to demand that I stay. And even though I’d be disobeying his order to stay with him, he still legally is not allowed to shoot me. Being too afraid or unable to shoot back is not a crime in this country – that’s why we have laws. It’s not up to the random passerby to comply with every armed man’s demands or fight to the death – it’s up to armed citizens not to make unreasonable demands on other citizens. This is why Zimmerman was told not to pursue Trayvon.
I don’t care if Trayvon was no longer “cherubic” and I don’t know where I got the impression that he was four years younger, but it’s not something to giggle about either way. I definitely wouldn’t expect a 17-year old to automatically react with calm precision and conflict-defusing skill when followed and chased by a strange adult. All the “well I would have confronted him and defended myself!” talk is kind of irrelevant because not defending oneself or confronting an attacker IS NOT grounds to legally kill a person, in this country. Being unable to defend yourself can get you killed but it does not excuse your death.
Kel, I definitely am not a fan of people stoking the flames of public anger. I just think that there is a LOT of valid, understandable public anger over this, and it’s incorrect to conflate the legitimate questions and concerns with “people crying racism.”
Just saw the film this evening.
Shari Rigby was authentic.
Jasmine Guy hit the sweet spot as well. I am willing to bet she too had a dog in the fight.
Not a cinematic masterpiece, but I am sure it will continue to be both cathartic and therapeutic for post abortive women and men for a long time to come.
The bigots…..not so much.
I guess I’m just crazy then for thinking a guy who explicitly said that there had been a number of break-ins in his neighborhood has a legitimate concern and anyone looking shady (even if it happened to be me-I wear the hoodie+ball cap combo like it’s a daily uniform) should assist him in trying to help secure his neighborhood, even if that means speaking to the authorities. If I didn’t have anything to worry about, I! would probably call the cops MYSELF!!! and let them know I was being detained!!!!
Sorry I have so much faith in humanity that I think the two parties explaining themselves to each other should’ve been sufficient to rectify this situation, and the fact that things ended up as they did points only to some wrongdoing on either the part of the shooter or his victim. Also, let me just apologize for not being up-in-arms until I figure out exactly WHAT that wrongdoing is, and WHO the guilty party was who was doing it.
First off, you are hugely hypocritical. I have heard you say that people under eighteen aren’t even capable of consenting sex, but they are perfectly mentally capable of knowing how and when to defend themselves from a pursuer?
Some are, some aren’t. The law is needed for the ones who aren’t. EVERYONE should learn to call 911 if they’re feeling threatened as a minor. Children+cell phones=CALL 911, even my daughter knows that, and she’s 9. She’s allowed to have a limited-use cell phone when she hits 12. This guy had his, right?
Second off, are you saying I can go after unarmed men who are bigger than me, act surprised when they fight me off, and shoot them? I would be the innocent party here?
Depends. Why were they fighting you off? Why did they feel like they had to do that? Did they have to at all? Personally, I’d want to know all the circumstances of the incident before I made any decisions, but I guess that’s just not cool these days. Let me remove my brain so I can jump on the conclusions bandwagon and cry “Racism!” like everyone else.
As a side note: Is there no curfew law in this town? If not, why not? Most of the towns in Arkansas have them, and they tend to do a pretty good job of keeping crap like this from happening.
“Also, they’ve said they’re still investigating. It’s not as though they’ve come out and said “Tough sh#+, guys. We’re lettin’ him go!” […] The sooner it goes to trial, the better, imo, because I’m sick of it.”
We do agree on this point, definitely! I keep reminding people that they haven’t decided either way what to do. I would hope that they’re examining things like how far away Zimmerman was when he shot Trayvon, etc, as well as gathering a lot of information from people who were around at the time.
“I guess I’m just crazy then for thinking a guy who explicitly said that there had been a number of break-ins in his neighborhood has a legitimate concern and anyone looking shady (even if it happened to be me-I wear the hoodie+ball cap combo like it’s a daily uniform) should assist him in trying to help secure his neighborhood, even if that means speaking to the authorities.”
You really think that most people will simply stand and take orders from some random person who is following them in the middle of the night? Especially when they are young people who might not have a lot of experience with these type of situations. And besides, our violent crime rate is through the roof. If someone followed me and told me to stay put, I would assume it was a mugging or murder and run. Martin had no reason to stay put and he wasn’t legally obligated to in the first place. Zimmerman is nothing, he’s a cop wannabe.
“Sorry I have so much faith in humanity that I think the two parties explaining themselves to each other should’ve been sufficient to rectify this situation, and the fact that things ended up as they did points only to some wrongdoing on either the part of the shooter or his victim. ”
Yeah… that’s why I don’t like Stand Your Ground. It doesn’t leave much room for peaceful resolution, and more incidents like this will happen until it’s repealed.
“Some are, some aren’t. The law is needed for the ones who aren’t. EVERYONE should learn to call 911 if they’re feeling threatened as a minor. Children+cell phones=CALL 911, even my daughter knows that, and she’s 9. She’s allowed to have a limited-use cell phone when she hits 12. This guy had his, right?”
You don’t think that people panic? Or some people don’t trust cops, especially in this area?
“As a side note: Is there no curfew law in this town? If not, why not? Most of the towns in Arkansas have them, and they tend to do a pretty good job of keeping crap like this from happening.”
Last time I was up there, like six year ago, I don’t think they had a curfew law, or at least I never got taken in on a violation.
And btw you are the only one talking about race here. I haven’t focused on race at all. I am concerned about really crappy “self-defense” laws destroying my state, I could care less what race any of the participants are. The race baiters are screwing stuff up for those of us with very legitimate concerns about this, and have seen this crap happen before.
Jack,
The reason I’m aware of this case in the first place is because media manipulators have been using this as a vehicle to ply their trade. The only reason I know about it is because those who seek to divide this house based on race are using this case as a weapon. That is the only reason I feel like I should say ANYTHING about it, and that is the only reason I do.
“Wow, Ken, I see nothing about illegals in that story.”
JB,
clue:
“Lt. White said the violence appeared to break out between two different groups at a Quinceañera party for a child who was turning 15.”
I can’t do anything about your lack of demographic and cultural awareness.
I have a bunch of Spanish speaking friends and if I were to share this story with them I am confident they would agree with my assessment and they would NOT judge me a racist and a natavist.
Spanish sir names, shootings, stabbings and beatings at a Quinceñara= mojados/mojadas [chicano slang for undocumented aliens].
I am equally sure there some Spanish speaking partiers who were natual born U. S. CItizens and some naturalized U. S. Citizens, but if ICE agents showed up the party would have been over poste haste cause most of the folks would have vamanos‘ed.
It ain’t new math or rocket science, amigo. It is just the present reality.
Oh I see, so if people celebrate cultural traditions from their familial countries, they are illegals. Gotcha.
Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has one, Jack.
I just want you to look back over how many excuses you had to make for this kid, then try and re-think your position, or at least reserve a little judgement until more is known about the case. That’s all I’m doing, and all I ask of anyone else.
Yeah, X, and don’t think I am not pretty upset about people taking a legitimate gripe about horrid “self-defense” laws and turning it into a race thing. I am. I am also tired of people sitting around saying “well, I would have done this, Martin should have done this” when they really have no idea what the culture is like.
On a related note, I really love the movie “Falling Down”.
Fine, I will do that. Though I think that I am not making excuses for him, other than saying that he was unarmed, walking home, and was followed by an armed man who was specifically instructed to stay in his car by law enforcement. You look back and ask yourself why you are so quick to make assumptions that removed responsibility from Zimmerman and put it on Martin.
Though I am probably biased, I hate that area and I think it’s a hotbed of aggression and corruption. You couldn’t pay me to move back there.
xalisae, I got hit by a car three years ago. I walked away ok – literally WALKED AWAY, with random passersby desperately trying to stop me or at least get my name – but I was in such shock that it’s an understatement to say that I was not thinking rationally. I was not FUNCTIONING rationally. My fight-or-flight response kicked in and I FLEW. I just wanted to be around people I knew, in a building I knew. I went back to work, one block away, and said, “I just got hit by a car but I’m ok,” and as my boss stared at me in silence, I sat down and started working on an expense report. About two minutes later I began shaking uncontrollably, and wanted to be even more cocooned, so I went down in the basement, to the boiler room (wtf?). I sat down and eventually realized I was crying. That’s when I knew I needed to go to someone and get help. In those maybe 10 minutes I was completely numb and irrational.
I found a trusted colleague and told him what happened and he immediately said, “Did you call the police?” and I felt SO RIDICULOUS for not having done that. I was mortified. I could not BELIEVE that such a simple thing hadn’t occurred to me. I actually begged him not to tell my boss because I thought it reflected so badly on my own intellectual or emotional ability to handle stressful situations; I was SO embarrassed.
I’m the most “stand your ground” pedestrian in the world. I will cross when I have the right of way no matter how much some jerk cab acts like he’s going to hit me. (for the record, that’s not how I got hit – a car was backing up at about 20mph the wrong way down a one-way street, in the gutter rather than in the driving part of the road; there was construction on the sidewalk so I stepped off to go around it and the car backed into/over me. I was hurt and horribly scraped/bruised, but the wheel went right next to me rather than over me so I was ok). I have screamed at drivers who hassled me and if I have the right of way, you can honk all you want but the most you’ll get out of me is a sarcastic thumbs-up. But that day – that day, I was legitimately scared, scared for my life, and so I was irrational. Everything I ever thought I’d do – it all went away. IT HAPPENS to people. People who freeze up like that sometimes die as a result of failure to act reasonably. That is not an “excuse” and it does not mean their deaths are deserved or should go unpunished.
“I am concerned about really crappy “self-defense” laws destroying my state, I could care less what race any of the participants are.”
We have similar laws in Texas. I am certain none of the amigos/amigas who did the shooting at the Quincenara were licensed to conceal and carry. It would difficult, if not impossible to get a permit if they were here illegally.
If they didn’t respect our immigration laws, why would they respect our firearm laws?
If my memory serves me correctly your ‘state’ is Florida.
This is the same state where law enforcement warns people flying into the Miami airport to avoid certain areas because armed criminals prey on tourists in rental cars.
It ain’t the ‘self defense’ laws that are destroying Florida, it is brazen criminals.
For every ‘innocent’ person who is mistakenly shot or killed by a responsible citizen, how many responsible citizens are deliberately shot or killed by a criminal?
Kel, I definitely am not a fan of people stoking the flames of public anger. I just think that there is a LOT of valid, understandable public anger over this, and it’s incorrect to conflate the legitimate questions and concerns with “people crying racism.”
I’m not saying race didn’t or couldn’t have played a factor. Fact is, we really do not know. The other fact is that Jesse goes wherever he knows he can exploit the race card to the fullest extent. I think the gentleman from the NAACP is right – why aren’t we hearing as much about the “black on black” violence, which is so much more of a problem? Because we can’t blame it on another race, that’s why. (Seen the new “cracker” shirts they’re selling? That’s not breeding more hate, no sir.)
And again – this young man is dead. It was a tragic loss of life. And now another man is in hiding, with a bounty from the Black Panthers on his head. All around, it’s horrible.
“Oh I see, so if people celebrate cultural traditions from their familial countries, they are illegals.”
Correcto mundo, if their cutural traditons include flauting the law and bringing guns and knives to a party to celebrate a young girls passage into womanhood and then using the guns and knives on their fellow celebrants.
Do CubanAmericans routinely carry guns and knives to a childs birthday party?
“And now another man is in hiding, with a bounty from the Black Panthers on his head.”
Nex thing you know they will be burning crosses and forming lynch mobs.
Zimmerman should wait tit the bounty get over a million dollars then make arrangement to turn himself in to a black police officer and split the bounty with him.
No, Ken, you knew I was commenting on your assumptions about the Quinceañera, not the weapons and shootings. You aren’t stupid, don’t act obtuse. It’s annoying.
JB,
I believe it is you who are being obtuse, but I do not believe you are ‘acting’ stupid.
I have been to Quinceañeras, both here and in Mexico.
The difference is there were no shootings, stabbings or beatings.
But the people with whom I was celebrating were law abiding folks.
Illegal aliens are by definition NOT law abiding.
My informed ‘opinion’ about the legal status of most of the partiers at Ellis County quinceañera was deduced from reading the whole article and from my own life experience.
I am sure most of my Spanish speaking friends would agree with me, even the ones who are here illegally.
Maybe Travon was a choir boy shot execution style. Or maybe he was bigger than Zimmerman, had his hood up on a warm night, gave attitude and then sucker-punched him. We don’t know which is closer to the truth.,
This happened three weeks before it became a national issue. If Zimmerman had a broken nose, an injury to the back of his head (he said his head was slammed into the sidewalk) and grass stains, it sounds like the witness may be right about a fight.
They must have had preliiminary ballistics. If Martin was shot at an angle from the ground, that’s another reason no charges were pressed back then.
Let’s cool it for a while. Zimmerman isn’t going anywhere. He’s got the Black Panthers, a do-nothing-right attorney-general, and a meddling president to worry about.
Saw the film last night. I thought the movie was really slow at first however it got more engaging with Jasmine Guys performance. I thought she was awesome!!!! The movie played better after that scene and held my attention. I am glad they put the testimony at the end of the actress who played the birth mother.
Hans,
Maybe the whole Fred G. Sanford and Son police department and city government are all card carrying members of the KKK/Aryan Nation.
Maybe they were so arrogant they thought they could ignore a cold blood killing of an young unarmed densely pigmented male and the densely pigmented democRAT U. S. Attorney General, appointed by a densely pigmented democRAT president would NOT take an interest in the case.
Maybe they figured Al Shaprton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee, Louis Farakahn, would be so consumed with celebrating ‘Black History’ month they would fail to notice the shooting death of an unarmed 17 year old black male in the deep south.
[Seriously it took Al and Jesse two weeks to notice this blatant act of institutionalized racsim. Maybe tweedle dee and tweedle dumber were so preoccupied with fabricating a way to blame Whitney Houston’s death on the white devils they overlooked Trayvon Martin’s death.]
But it might be the Sanford police actually conducted an investigation and, in conjunction with the city prosecutor, concluded the physical evidence and the witnesses corroborated Zimmerman’s claims of self defense.
But I do have this criticism.
Exercising due diligence and caution, Sanford officials should have turned the case over to a county grand jury therby insulating themselves from the sensitve situation.
ken,
Could all be.
Hey, how likely is it for Holder to look into this bounty the Nouveau Noir Panthers have out on Zimmerman?
Jack,
I don’t think Ken’s going to agree with you about the “bad Mexicans” any sooner than he’s going to agree with me about Sandra Fluke. But to be serious: thank you for standing up. I’m Latina. I don’t think that it has to be said how deeply infuriating and even hurtful his comments are.
Anyway, I also agree with you and Alexandra about the Trayvon Martin case. This case has really gotten under my skin and tugged at me emotionally in a way that “crime stories” generally don’t. I think it’s because of Martin’s age. We’re nearly the same age. He was at the beginning of life.
And finally: the topic of the thread. I just want to throw in there that I define pro-life so that it encompasses both pacifism and environmentalism. So I am really interested in films that examine themes not just of abortion, but also war, the ecosystem, and issues related to all of life. I’ll look into this film if it’s as good as the people here say it is (the cinematography looks interesting to me, actually), albeit…I am very poor at the moment.
Well, hopefully, the people who did watch it were moved by it on a cinematic level. If a film changes or helps even one person, then it is worthwhile.
I am sorry…but I still don’t understand the link between the October Baby movieand the tragedy of the Trayvon Martin case.
Souldn’t it be the topic of a separate blog? maybe I am misssing something…
Yeah, but then I wouldn’t get anything else done. ;-)
Hey, someone removed the spam and now my comment makes no sense!
I hope no one takes that as a generalization — that I can’t make sense without spam. ;-)
Vannah,
Latinos and latinas no longer enjoy an automatic sympathy from the New York Times, Reuters, and other news sources. They now refer to Zimmerman as a “white Hispanic”, to enhance his suspiciousness.
Paleness is the new leprosy.
The final message of this movie is one of forgiveness. Pro-lifers and pro-choicers alike will be able to relate. Post-abortive women might find it liberating if they are experiencing regret.
I saw it yesterday with two other people in the theater, so go soon or plan to rent it!
Janetforlife, it might take a long time before you can purchase or rent the DVD, but I know that the movie will expand to new cities and theaters throughout the country beginning Friday, April 13th including Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and more.
So, the more people go watch it the stronger the effect it will have. So please tell all your friends, family, church, co-workers “to go to the movies” and enjoy this wonderful movie!
Richard,
That’s good news! Thank you for that information.