Facts about Pepsi aborted fetal cell controversy
UPDATE, 5:03p: Brad Mattes of Life Issues Institute forwarded me a “Response to PepsiCo Denial,” in the event one of us received a email from PepsiCo stating:
Please know that PepsiCo does not conduct or fund research that utilizes any human tissue or cell lines derived from embryos.
And wouldn’t you know reader Pam just received such an email from PepsiCo and forwarded it to me. So those emailing Pepsi will find LII’s paper handy.
10:29: I have received a few requests from pro-lifers like Vicki:
Can you provide some clarity to the Pepsi/cells from aborted babies controversy. I cannot sort out whether this is valid or not.
Yes and No
Bottom line: There are no aborted embryonic or fetal cells in any of PepsiCo’s final products.
But: Aborted cells are used in the development of artificial flavor enhancers by biotech company Senomyx, with which PepsiCo signed a four-year, $30 million agreement in 2010 for research and development. No Pepsi products containing Senonymx flavor enhancers should be expected until 2013.
Senomyx’s disputed cell line is HEK-293, derived from the kidney cells of an aborted baby. We could go into the weeds at this point, but Wikipedia offers an easy explanation:
HEK stands for Human Embryonic Kidney cells. These cells, which were cloned, originally came from healthy, electively aborted human embryos. Using information from the human genome sequence, Senomyx has identified hundreds of taste receptors and currently owns 113 patents on their discoveries.
Ick factor
A little more on those taste receptors from cogforlife.org, which originally made the connection between PepsiCo, Senomyx, and aborted cells:
These… taste receptors… produce a chemical signal that lets Senomyx researchers know they have achieved the exact flavor they are trying to develop.
Snopes concurs… sort of
Snopes, in a post last updated on March 18, basically comes to a similar conclusion as the aforementioned, calling the claim that “Pepsi uses material from aborted fetuses in it products” a “mixture” of “false” and “undetermined.”
Snopes states it is “false” to claim Pepsi products contain aborted baby cells, but it is “undetermined” whether Senomyx uses aborted cells in R&D, basically because Senonymx won’t answer the question.
But Snopes goes into great detail, citing articles by CBS News, Forbes, and Miami New Times, to corroborate that Senomyx indeed does. There is actually no question on that point, so Snopes should change “undetermined” to “true.”
Plot thickens with help by Obama administration
LifeSiteNews.com reported on March 5 that shareholders shall remain in the dark, thanks to the SEC:
In a decision delivered Feb 28th, President Obama’s Security and Exchange Commission ruled that PepsiCo’s use of cells derived from aborted fetal remains in their research and development agreement with Senomyx to produce flavor enhancers falls under “ordinary business operations.”
The letter signed by Attorney Brian Pitko of the SEC Office of Chief Counsel was sent in response to a 36-page document submitted by PepsiCo attorneys in January, 2012.
In that filing, PepsiCo pleaded with the SEC to reject the Shareholder’s Resolution filed in October 2011 that the company “adopt a corporate policy that recognizes human rights and employs ethical standards which do not involve using the remains of aborted human beings in both private and collaborative research and development agreements.”
Boycott PepsiCo
Senomyx has since removed the list of all its partners, but cogforlife.org got a screenshot. Those include Kraft and Nestle, future boycott targets according to c4l.
But the boycott starts with Pepsi. From Brad Mattes of Life Issues Institute:
PepsiCo will continue their efforts to keep the controversy quiet, but the pro-life community’s boycott of Pepsi products and exposing the outrage isn’t going to lose its fizz anytime soon.
Here’s what I need you to do. BOYCOTT Pepsi products. Click here for the link that will tell you what they are.
Contact PepsiCo directly by clicking here. Tell them why you’re boycotting their products.
Let others know by leaving a comment on the company’s Facebook page. Post comments on your own Facebook and Twitter pages.
The only way to stop this atrocity is if you and I make enough noise. Together, we must put PepsiCo under the spotlight and expose their willingness to make money off the bodies of aborted babies.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Ewwww!
Finally! An article that actually clarifies some things for me.
I’ve always been a Coca-Cola woman anyway. :)
My husband contacted Nestle about this. They replied saying they no longer use Senomyx, so he asked if any of their other suppliers use these practices. Their email reply:
He then asked (again) if any of their other suppliers use these practices involving aborted fetal cells (not just the company Senomyx) and has been getting the run around. Answers like, “None of our products contain aborted fetal cells” when that is clearly not the question he posed.
They make it hard to figure out what is really going on sometimes! Not sure if that is intentional.
Jill, what about aborted fetal cells used in making some vaccinations?
Gosh darnit. Goodbye Diet Mt. Dew.
For real??? Ocean Spray???? Oh my gosh… Guess I’ll have to figure something out because between my cranberry juice and Mt. Dew, I’m left with milk or water.
How stupid is this? Why not just convene a panel of folks to taste test the stuff? Plenty of people would volunteer-other companies do it all the time. How hard would it be to go to the local high school and ask 50 teenagers for their opinions? What’s next, labels that say ‘our products are fetal-cell approved’? This is Orwellian.
@MPQ: All kinds of reasons. First is the self-reporting problem. People, even when they try very hard to accurately report their reactions, are always going to give responses that do not completely encompass their experiences. In this case, probably because it’s tough to describe taste entirely accurately. Second is the bias problem. An ethical experimenter would have to report who they’re doing the research for, which would instantly add plus/minus points to the taste in the minds of the taste-testers, even when they tried very hard to give what they were tasting a fair shake. Then there’s the problem of quantifying and entering on an accurate scale the responses of the taste-testers. If you’re only comparing two things, then you can ask which one is better, but what if you want to test across a range of tastes? And what if you aren’t necessarily scoring for “better” but for sweet, salty, bitter, etc.? How do you get your testers to respond in ways that can be scored like that (especially taking into account how subjective human languages are on the topic of taste)? And what if the test you’re running is for a difference that is incredibly subtle? Something people may not consciously notice? How do you get a panel of taste-testers to consciously respond about tastes they may not have consciously been aware of in the first place?
Obviously, the solution to all of these problems is not “Use the stem cells of aborted children!” That idea never makes to the table, when the people sitting there are ethical and responsible. But while taste-testing is useful, it is not necessarily the best way to do everything all the time.
Ruth Graham (author of the Urban Outfitters article) should not be concerned about other people’s concerns and should not have wrote her article. MYOB, Ruth. I’m refusing to read anything written by you now. LOL
Seriously.
Well, this is going to help me kick my soda addiction really fast…disgusting.
Alice,
Plenty of companies employ taste testers as part of their quality control. But, of course, you’re the expert on everything. Thanks for descending from on high to mingle with the commoners – aka those of us you’ve written off as trolls (hello, bro ken?) your opinion is noted and ignored.
I bet the Obama administration counts the aborted children as “employed” to lower their bad unemployment numbers.
It is sickening and angering to think that the children from which these cells were derived will never get the chance to taste a thing on their own, but will be enslaved to Pepsi and similar companies, working to taste without pay, without pleasure, until this ghoulish operation is brought to a close-and then will most likely simply have their remains be unceremoniously discarded. Poor babies. I’m so sorry for you today, little ones.
LOL. Okay, one, I never said taste-testing was useless, just that it wasn’t always the answer to every development test need. Two, clearly your response to someone politely offering information that is interesting and even relevant to the conversation is to be as self-righteous and arrogant as possible and project like mad in the hopes you won’t be called on it. Thanks for the laugh, MPQ. I needed that.
X-they could be a potential voter base. Dems love those dead voters.
I feel so TERRIBLE! When I checked the list of products, I realized I’m sitting here right now drinking one of them! Lipton Diet Green Tea with citrus. I’m diabetic, so I drink water, Diet Dr. Pepper, and the tea.
But I’ll give up ANYTHING before I let these big corporations get away with what they’re getting away with!
Buh-bye, Lipton Tea :(
Hey, you too, Alice, who in the recent past tore into me like a little grammar nazi over an unclosed quote because she couldn’t find anything else to criticize, but was strangely silent when an actual troll called my three year old a rapist. No worries, Alice, I’m sure you’ll get the attagirls and validation you’re here for from another of your little buddies here. Just write off those you don’t like as trolls and throw other prolife folks under the bus (hello, bro ken?) because we all know it’s more important to be the top dog commenter on some blog than to actually do something for those being slaughtered. I knew I’d regret coming back here to comment after the disgusting display of so called prolifers standing mutely by while my son was called a rapist-interestingly enough those comments are still there, unmoderated, while those from Alice denigrating Ken were conveniently deleted. But, no matter, Alice, as long as your little following thinks you’re cool. Have a nice day, hypocrites.
MPQ,
Try not to take it too personally. A troll who showed up accusing me of having intercourse (using the full f-word) with my father stayed put for at least 2 days, and for all I know might still be there. Mods do what they can when they can, when they feel it is necessary. Sometimes I think they leave stuff up just to showcase how crass and coarse the other side can be, especially when our retort leaves their side looking just as hideous as they actually are. If memory serves, JDC and Jack helped take up for you (if I didn’t, I’m very sorry).
I don’t always agree with Alice, but I didn’t interject with the ken thing because I don’t always agree with ken, either.
2 cents.
There’s always beer.
X-I see what you’re saying, but I’m sick of so-called prolifers throwing other prolifers under the bus for the sake of making themselves look good. It does nothing but divide. I want nothing more to do with any of this, especially those who would stand by while a child is called a rapist because they’re too busy calling like minded others trolls. If picking nits is the best they can do, it’s no wonder we never make any real progress.
Good luck with the sheep here, I haven’t got the patience for it anymore.
What X said, MPQ. I’ve bumped heads with most of the regulars here a time or two (X, Ken, Jack that I can remember) and been deleted a time or two as well for getting out of hand.
You’ve got some great stuff at your place. X you do too. I limit my comments to Jill’s but read a lot of the other prolife sites.
On the whole, I think outspoken prolifers are a hardy group and that’s why we are going to make the changes this country needs. When sick comments like those made about your child stand, they definitely prove what wackjobs the proaborts have become.
I don’t look at every post on this blog, so you may be referring to another thread. But if you mean the one where Megan, I believe, was making some rather idiotic comments, then I do remember looking at comments from folks like Jack, JDC, you–yes, you–and others, and deciding anything I had to say would have been fairly redundant. I don’t post on necessarily every opportunity I get, you looked like you had her handled pretty well, and I didn’t have any thoughts to add that hadn’t been canvassed fairly thoroughly by somebody else. I have no doubt you will make me an evil person because of that, as well.
I do not apologize for calling ken a troll, nor will I no matter how many times you bring him up. I’m not remotely sorry for it and I meant it entirely. He may indeed oppose abortion, and well he should do so, but that does not mean he can’t be a troll. Any further comments that need to be made on that score to me I will be happy to hear from the site mods.
For the sake of not being a troll myself, I am going to refrain from responding to you on this particular subject further in this thread. I will make whatever on-topic posts I think would be relevant, though, nor am I afraid of happening to agree with you every so often. We already agree about the evil of abortion. If you would like to send me further flames, I have a blog of my own, the link to which is under my name at the top of this comment. Feel free to contact me there with whatever criticism you feel is appropriate or necessary.
Lays, Lipton Tea, Pizza Hut, even Starbucks?
I’ll need a scorecard to keep track of all the Pepsi Brands I need to avoid.
Right now it appears that Pepsi’s Facebook has a few comments on the fetal cell issue, but I don’t do FB so I can’t see exactly how many without logging in there.
I’m curious about the other sodas too, because Coca-Cola could very well be doing the same thing for all we know.
I’ve avoided Pepsi for a long time due to completely different political reasons (they once balked at divesting from South Africa during Apartheid) plus I once worked for them. Cured me of my soda drinking real quick. However, before singling them out, I’m curious about their competition.
Soda should be a treat not a survival beverage anyway, but I’m still shocked when I see families loading up on cases of it at the supermarket. Damaged kidneys anyone? Ironic, isn’t it?
Alice and MPQ,
I value both of your contributions on Jill’s comment threads. We may not always agree with each other, but we are on the same team. Both of you don’t have to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but WE should save the snark for our true adversaries.
MPQ, I forgot that Tyler and I went a few rounds where even my husband jumped in. But Tyler and all the other prolifers here still have my utmost respect because we see the humanity in the unborn and realize everyone deserves a right to life.
We have a right to our opinions on many topics but it’s the unborn that are the folks that bind us. We are a head-strong, tenacious group and we are making great strides in the movement.
Hang tough and keep speaking out.
@ninek: I used to be a total Dr. Pepper addict until one day, when I ran out and didn’t have time to get any more, I didn’t just go through a caffeine withdrawal, I got sick. Worried I might throw up sick. It was utterly miserable. I switched to tea and haven’t looked back. Enough caffeine to keep the beast fed, but not so much that I feel miserable when I can’t get it. I have to say, I much prefer this.
…Of course, now I’ll have to hunt up a new brand. I had no idea Pepsi produced Lipton. :(
Hello, Jill! I went to check if coca-cola was on the planned parenthood boycott list, but couldn’t find a clear, concise answer… then I found this link for planned parenthood and coke was mentioned in their matching gifts section of the page… Does this mean coke is still funding PP? There are also (outdated – 2007) references saying coke had been removed from the boycott, but this info was copied and pasted from the PP site today – 4/3/12. Can you help? I have been drinking the store brand (except for Lent) due to costs, but as the primary choices in restaurants is Pepsi or Coke, should I be ordering a root beer? ;) After seeing all these companies (whose food/drink I love) on boycott lists for funding PP or utilizing aborted fetal cells in their flavor research, I’m also ready to hit the bread and water diet ;) Can you please help? Thank you in advance! :)
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppmw/donate-locally-22982.htm
Matching Gifts
Double the size of your gift. Does your employer match charitable contributions? If so, please contact your Human Resources Department for more information about how your gift may be matched.
A partial list of companies with Corporate Matching Gift Programs includes: AT&T, Alcoa, American Express, Avon Products, Black & Decker, Circuit City, Citibank, Clorox, Coca-Cola, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Fidelity Investments, Ford Motor Company, Gannett, James River Corporation, Merck & Company, Microsoft Corporation, Motorola, Phillip Morris, T. Rowe Price, Prudential Insurance, Safeco Corporation, Sun Microsystems, Sunoco, Vanguard Group, Verizon, Washington Post Company, White & Case, Xerox Corporation
“Can’t we all just get along”? ;)
Soylent Green is people! Disgusting, the realities we are coming to today! Pepsi you will hear my voice, and I will no longer buy your products.
I hate to break this to you all, but pretty much any medicine you will ever take, has its testing origins using HEK293 cells. They are an excellent cell line to express targets and receptors of pharmaceuticals, and are extremely cost-effective and easy to use. Every pharmaceutical company has or will use them. Do a PubMed search for “HEK293 cells” and you will see the depth that their use penetrates the Sciences.
And while you are at it, look at how the study of EMBRYONIC stem cells paved the way for the use of ADULT stem cells. Understanding the cell cycle, and growth and development of embryonic stem cells provided vast amounts of data in order to understand how to coax adult stem cells into what we want.
In shorthand:
1) Study ESC and get data
2) Go to ASC and test genes and molecules discovered in ESC
3) Go back to ESC with data from 2, and do more experiments
4) Take data from 3, and test in ASC
If you look at how we now “regress” ASC into more pluripotent cells, most of that knowledge came from studying the cell cycle and development of embryonic stem cells. It is very hard to avoid pharmaceutical and other science product that have not been “contaminated” by the use of embryonic cell lines of some type.
@Dave: Even if everything you said is true, if you’re going to try and use that to justify embryonic stem cell research, you’re going to have to work pretty hard at it. Unless you also wish to justify Mengele’s “experiments” since they paved the way for much of modern medicine. After all, what’s a few innocent people tortured to death, so long as we all learn from it, right?
There is next to nothing that can be done regarding donations to corporate match programs from AT&T, Coca-Cola, etc. These companies do NOT fund PP directly, they only do so if an employee donates. Even so, FightPP.org does NOT list AT&T and Coca-Cola (or any “corporate match” PP funding) as boycott targets.
I am not promoting or arguing for anything, rather, I am merely pointing out for additional consistency that the vast majority of the pharmaceuticals you take or are available have used in HEK293 cells in their *development process*. I have no real dog in this fight. This search here will demonstrate the depth to which the use of HEK293 cells have permeated Science.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Hek293%20OR%20Hek-293.
Look at some of those articles down the list of over 14,000; you will see how many potential pharmaceuticals in development rely on HEK293 cells for preclinical study and characterization. In fact, psychotropic medications are often tested on human fetal neurons obtained from elective abortions, or at least have their mechanism of action validated in such.
It would be very, very interesting if Religious organizations kept 100% strict consistency in their Health Insurance coverage, thereby excluding not only contraception, but all Pharmaceuticals that used HEK293 or other *embryonic* cell lines in their *primary* development process and FDA new drug application. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in thousands of homes when people under those plans would have to stop taking their Abilify, Seroquel, Zyprexa ect.
So soda and contraception are not necessities, and you can fight and boycott. But many pharmaceuticals are much needed and lifesaving, so in reality, you have to bite the bullet and accept where they came from – or accept the consequences for you or your loved ones. But either way, it does not change the fact that most pharmaceuticals have their origins in research most pro-life people would find very objectionable.
And Mengele had about zero to do with modern medicine. True modern medicine arguably began with the era of Neurology with Jean-Martin Charcot, who trained Joseph Babinski, Sigmund Freud, and Guille De La Tourette. These generally were the first to apply rigorous and objective scientific methodology and clinical practice to neurological disorders. One can trace a direct line from Charcot to Hodgkin and Huxley and Pennfield, going by way of Sherrington, Adrian, and Eccles. The work of Sherrington, Adrian, Eccles, Hodgkin and Huxley defined electrophysiology, which bled over into other disciplines like cardiology. Then the era of 1950s Neuroscience arguably revolutionized medicine yet again, and included – development of the first psychotropic drugs….(Gordon Shepherd 2009).
@Dave: I’m afraid it’s a comforting fiction to suppose that Mengele had nothing to do with modern medicine. This paper (also available here) details some of the ways in which he has influenced the medical knowledge in use today.
That article is interesting in that it also details ways in which the data obtained through Nazi experiments might be used practically, following ethical guidelines that respected the victims memories and suffering. I suppose the difference in that writer and you is that he recognizes the deaths of Mengele’s victims as the tragedies that they are and doesn’t seek to pointlessly rub that in the face of those who mourn them. You seem to be saying, “Well, this happens anyway, so all you folks who actually care about the ethical issues of these researches are just going to have to suck it up and deal.” I am–to be entirely honest–infuriated by such an attitude. Opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells is not opposition to scientific progress. It is opposition to the unethical use of dead human beings that doesn’t even bother to make a pretence at respecting the lives lost. Nor is it unreasonable or unethical to be concerned about how to make our lives better without harming innocent human beings to get there.
I can not help but feel the need to point out that you are a human being and must therefore–if only indirectly–be connected in some way to abortion and medicine. These issues do affect you. One way or another, you are connected to the victims of abortion. Everyone is. It is, therefore, the responsibility of every human being alive today to do their own part to see that their deaths are respected and their number is not added to. Perhaps there are more things that people can do to see that scientific research is conducted in an ethical way that respects the lives of the unborn who were stolen from all of us by abortion and treats those victims with dignity and respect. Protesting the use of embryonic cells in product research may be only a first step, but it most certainly is a good and appropriate one.
Drink Zevia brand pop. It’s all natural diet soda, sweetened with Stevia. Zero calories and safe for diabetics. At you local health food stores, or some grocery store. Failing that, you can buy it online. They have a cola flavor, but my favorite flavor is grape. It’s not made by either the Coke or Pepsi companies, so no dead babies in the manufactering or testing.
Thanks for the heads-up, Ex-Dem!
RURZ, if that was an attempt at lulz, it was an epic fail.
Zevia is kind of pricey and I wasn’t bowled over at the taste. Stevia with Kool-Aid is better.
I used to think Pepsi was the nectar of the gods - especially when kind of flat. If they really are going to use flavor enhancers from this company in a few years, I’m swearing off it. Good-bye Pepsi One!
“ I knew I’d regret coming back here to comment after the disgusting display of so called prolifers standing mutely by while my son was called a rapist-”
That’s bull, I cussed Megan out the best I could on a blog that has rules against cussing. JDC railed her too. What she said was disgusting. If you want to be incredibly sensitive about someone mildly contradicting you, be my guest, but you aren’t entitled to your own facts.
And lol @RURZ, because NO troll has ever made the eating aborted babies joke. Ever. He/she is incredibly fresh, edgy, and original.
Tried to share links to show why we should also boycott John & Johnson but was denied. J&J .
As a result, Crucell will now operate as the center for vaccines within the Johnson & Johnson pharmaceuticals group. Whats wrong with Crucell they use the PER C6.
About the PER C6 Abortion and cell lines….
Key excerpts from the above document: Dr. Van Der Eb, Crucel NV is speaking…
“So I isolated retina from a fetus, from a healthy fetus as far as could be seen, of 18 weeks old. There was nothing special with a family history or the pregnancy was completely normal up to the 18 weeks, and it turned out to be a socially indicated abortus – abortus provocatus, and that was simply because the woman wanted to get rid of the fetus.”
Fr Frank Pavone of Priests for Life sent out a copy of an order form that is used to sell aborted baby parts to any one who wants them. So the company that collects the aborted babies from the abortuaries, pays the abortuary for the baby parts and then dissects them, stores them, and re-sells them after harvesting them?
Ok.
And then I was looking at the other products pepsi-co sells that are not beverages, these include chips and cereals.
And I also found the vaccines that have the baby parts in them, they give these to children.
And so are they also using them in skin creams? That’s what I heard, but don’t know of any lists that will let me know, is that Johnson and Johnson-it should be illegal for them to not have to put it on their labels–they have to do that with testing on animals.
I can’t wait ’till we vote this OBAMANATION out of office. ANYONE BUT OBAMA 2012! Yess!
This issue is sooverblown in this so called free country. If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one. If you want to save lives, do something useful like become a paramedic or join global help organization. Don’t stand in front of women’s health clinics with
homemade banners that look like they were written by five year olds trying to intimidate women who already are in a bad situation, dealing with it as best as they can. Oh and killing doctors is a reallyintelligent and productive way of voicing your opinion.
Geo,
1.) Don’t want to get stabbed out in the street by a robber? Don’t stab anyone else. Oh, wait, that doesn’t work, and is totally faulty logic on your part. I want gestating human beings not to die in abortion. I would never abort anyway. How does that help the 3,000+ children dying in abortions anyway?
2.) We can do nice things like joining help organizations (I’m a big fan of donating to food pantries myself), becoming paramedics (lots of people here are doctors, nurses, and I think phillymiss is or was a social worker, even), AND stand outside of “women’s health clinics” where children are inside being killed by the hundreds offering assistance to women in a bad situation who don’t know that help is out there for them at the same time. Multi-tasking FTW! ^_^
3.) When I was one of those “women who are already in a bad situation”, I WISH I would’ve known people were operating things like Crisis Pregnancy Centers and offering other assistance so I wouldn’t have had to stand up for my daughter against her father who wanted me to abort and my co-workers who thought aborting their kid(s) was the bet thing since sliced bread all by myself.
If you feel a need to boycott every company that has contributed to or benefited from the death ofhumans, you will leave yourself with VERY few options. To be consistent, this is what any true “pro lifer” should do. So, there would be very little left for a “pro life” person to do other than to become an organic farmer, make his or her own clothes and tools, never use any medicine, and swear off religion (since every religion has caused the death of millions throughout the ages (and profited from this). So, enjoy your solitary farming life… And don’t get sick!
4.) Oh, and who here has been touting the virtues of killing doctors? They should be banned immediately (and if they existed, they would be).
Xalisae,
Don’t want to get stabbed in the street, stay out of situations likely to get you stabbed. That would have been a more logical retort. Nevertheless, I am sorry you had to make that choice. However it was your choice to make. Both legally and morally. Perhaps you shouldn’t have listened to the father since he sounds like he wasn’t exactly a “stand up guy” anyway. In any case, you did, and that’s neither here nor there. Just understand that this is a woman’s choice and it should be. Its her life and health that is on the line, not the man’s. You didn’t like the choice you made, that is your problem, don’t push your hang ups and your religious superstitions on other women. Keep them. They’re yours. You wish you would have known. Did you ask around?School counselor, anyone? Doctor? There are always options and those who really want to know and understand the consequences of their actions and choices, find out. Don’t make other women pay for your mistake. And your mistake was making a choice you were not comfortable with. But you did have a choice at least. You weren’t sent to a monastery or work house for unwed mother and have your child taken away, which used to be the options available.But perhaps you’d prefer that life?
4) I wasn’t accusing anyone on this board specifically to have killed any doctor, or, indeed anyone, for that matter as I do not know the posters personally and have not witnessed any such act being committed by anyone on this site. However, it is a tactic that has been used and promoted by some in the “pro life” movement. Radical, yes, but I never heard any great cries of condemnation or sorrow for the deaths of these doctors, and I don’t see any pro-lifers being forced to go to work wearing bullet proof vests.
Xalisae, I know you are far more capable than I to take on to Geo. But please? Please??? Let me??
Anyone who feels like arguing their point is free to do so. You have my blessing ;)
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE when those that are proabortion come here to tell us what to do and how to do it BETTER!! Do this. Do that. Don’t do this. Don’t do that.
While you just keep supporting, promoting and celebrating the killing of babies and wounding of women!! Whatta guy!
Thanks for the laugh today, Geo. I needed that!!
Go for it, Courtnay. I’m cleaning and studying. I’ll take care of this trollito when I get the chance, but in the mean time, he’s all yours. ;)
Hey, I’m not telling anyone what to do, just laying out some options. It’s your CHOICE (pun, just in case you didnt get it) to do what you do. And, just so we are clear. I never stated that I am “pro-abortion”. That is your assumption, which is false. Don’ assume so much, you might be happier and wiser. Also, wounding women is not something I am a proponent of either but that is exactly what will be the effect off removing a woman’s choice by making abortions illegal. If you actully had a woman’s well being in mind, you might not be as amused as you state you are.
Oh, so now I’m a “trollito” whatever that is. Such personal insult. Awww. And another assumption: that I am a man. Well, whatever gender this “trollito” as you so affectionately call me, is, is for me to know and for you to not ever really know. Oh, that is kind like that aborted baby you mentioned, isn’t it?
I know, that was not nice. Let me know if you think we should play nice.
Geo:
If you actually understood how we prolifers see this issue you wouldn’t talk the way you do. It is EXTREMELY insulting to those of us who know that abortions kill our fellow human beings at the most vulnerable times in their lives. When someone says “If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one”, what we hear is “If you don’t like murder, don’t kill anyone.”
Those of us that know that abortions murder people cannot stand by with such a laissez-faire attitude that essentially says “abortion is not for MY children, but anyone else’s children – well they can die if their mothers want them to!”. Anything less than opposing abortion in the public sphere and helping women know that other options exist would be to stand aside as murder, sanctioned by the state, occurs with appalling numbers each and every day. We cannot be silent, and we will not be silent, to do so would allow the deaths of more and more humans every day.
Well, I guess I’ll start with this: PLEASE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY TALK.
First of all, Xalisae is proud of her choice. She made the right choice. She went up agianst unbelievable odds to allow this child to live. But I think (and X, correct me if I’m wrong here) Xalisae would not like to be cartegorized as special nor her child’s existence as extraordinary. Because she accepted the fact (and it is a fact, like it or not) that women who have sex often reproduce. If her pregnancy was an “accident”, it wasn’t her child’s accident. In any other situation here in the modern world do we allow our children to pay for our “mistakes.”
Segueway to me. I am a mom of 3, conceived in marriage, desired by both my husband and myself. Would that all babies were born into such welcoming situations.
Consider this: the inherent worth of my kids is no different that X’s daughter. Both are human lives that didn’t ask to be brought into existence, but once they were, deserved mom (and dad’s) protection. Folks on this site much smarter than I am can go through the biology of conception, and how a unique person is made from the get-go. I will tell you this, though: One’s age and degree of wantedness should NEVER be what confers civil rights. You and your ilk have bought into the lie that CHOICE (goodness, I hate that word) trumps all. It’s a lie, Geo. Once we start killing people because they are inconvenient for us at the moment, we have lost our souls and the very thing that separates us from animals.
LIFE, in case you didn’t know, trumps all, because it is upon one’s right to life that all other rights (and responsibilities) are predicated. Xalisae know that, even in cisis, because she is, well, human. No one here will argue with your position that abortive women are in crisis and trying to do the best they can. With the help of many of the good people on this site (including the 5 year olds who are making the signs), she can find better. But still: no one ever said it was easy to do the right thing. The right thing was required of me when my newborn son just WOULD NOT SHUT THE HELL UP EVER and I wanted to walk him down the stairs and ceremoniously dump him.
I am mortified by your arrogance by asking X if she considered all her options and then tell her “Don’t make women pay for your mistake.” Seriously? X is one of those bright lights that is going to lead women into possibilities that mean so much more than “Killing your child is gonna be GREAT.” Fool. Think about it: who kills her baby and then prospers? Anyone?
CRICKETS.
Oh, and Geo? We’ll be outside the clinics, again and again and again. If only to bear witness for that child who needed amnesty from his mom in crisis and would not find it. We will proclaim loudly and boldly: Abortion is MURDER.
Women and their families deserve so much better. Too bad you and your peeps have been sold the evil lie that the death of another is liberation for YOU.
that would have been a logical retort.
Only if you excel at missing the point. How, exactly, would a gestating human being be able not to put themselves in a situation in which their lives will not be in danger in our nation currently? It’s not as though they get to opt for a mother who wouldn’t abort them, or abortions wouldn’t happen.
I am sorry you had to make that choice.
As am I-electing to kill my daughter shouldn’t have been a legal option there for me to pursue even had I wanted to do so. I didn’t listen to her father, but what about all the children like her who didn’t or don’t have a mother who will give them the right to live as I gave her? This is where your argument, to me, falls apart.
Just understand that this is a woman’s choice and it should be. Its her life and health that is on the line, not the man’s.
I don’t understand this, because it is not the case. It is the gestating child’s life and health that is on the line-their lives are forever taken away and their health destroyed by abortion.
You didn’t like the choice you made, that is your problem,
Where did I say that I don’t like the choice I made? I’m not dissatisfied with it in any way-I don’t have to live with the knowledge that I am responsible for the death of my child, and she’s a happy and healthy 9 year old today, rather than being dead and disposed of as medical waste. How could that possibly be something to lament?
don’t push your hang ups and your religious superstitions on other women. Keep them. They’re yours.
HA! And always, always, ALWAYS to the “religious superstitions”! Where did I even mention ANYTHING about religion, dude? I’m afraid you’re talking to a secular Pro-Lifer. I don’t do this sort of thing out of any sort of religious notion. It’s wrong to kill your child, and religion never enters into that equation for me anywhere, and this is hardly a position unique to me. “Hang ups” though? I’m afraid you’re going to have to be a little more specific, because I don’t understand what you mean by this.
You wish you would have known. Did you ask around?School counselor, anyone? Doctor? There are always options and those who really want to know and understand the consequences of their actions and choices, find out.
Nope. Only one co-worker talked to me about it, and that was to tell me how super-awesome her abortion was and how it freed her up to backpack around Europe, which to me sounded like a crappy reason to kill your child. I had no transportation, a shared land-line phone, and lived with relatives who had already told me if I got pregnant I was kicked out and S.O.L.
I was, however, well-aware of the consequences of my actions and choices. I knew that sex makes babies (they went through the “how” of all of that quite in-depth my freshman year of college as a Biology major), and abortion kills them. My significant other, however, was pretty fuzzy on that. Rather than finishing high school, he dropped out and took the California High School Proficiency Exam. I guess they didn’t have many questions about Biology in it.
Don’t make other women pay for your mistake.
What mistake? OH, PLEASE! PLEASE TELL ME WHAT MY MISTAKE WAS, SINCE I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY OWN LIFE!
And your mistake was making a choice you were not comfortable with. But you did have a choice at least.
Thanks!!! I needed someone totally removed from my life and situation to tell me how I feel about things that happened to me, not them! I was and am perfectly comfortable with the choice I made. As I said before, I don’t live every day with crushing depression knowing that I paid someone in a lab coat to kill my child.
You weren’t sent to a monastery or work house for unwed mother and have your child taken away, which used to be the options available.But perhaps you’d prefer that life?
Who here is advocating for monastic press gangs or forcibly removing children from their parent(s)? We’ve come a long way, baby. But even if we DID do such things in this day and age (again, even if abortion was WAS illegal again, with the progress that has been made, we wouldn’t), you know who I bet would be REALLY happy about that and not being killed and vacuumed out into a bucket? The children who would actually HAVE a life.
Thank you, Courtnay.
I’m part Mexican, Geo. -ito is a masculine spanish diminutive suffix. Should it have been -ita?
Come back, “little troll”! Sorry you misunderstood that xalisae was brave enough to make the right choice.
You might get a spanking, but we do no real harm to babies here.
Hey Geo,
I had an abortion that I regret almost 22 years ago. My daughter would have been 21 years old this month.
Since I(nor Xalisae)seem to know that much about our own experience….
Please tell me ALLLLLL about it. Thanks.
::pops the popcorn::
Hey Carla! I was hoping you could join us here again as a contrasting voice to mine! Unfortunately, our friend Geo is no where to be found now that I’ve had the chance to engage him, and I’ve been stuck enjoying nothing but the sound of crickets for nearly a day. Perhaps today he can peek into his Fruit of the Looms and find enough substance there to grace us with his presence once again.
But, I’m afraid I might’ve scared him off permanently. Sorry. I always tend to go a little overboard when playing with toys. ;P
Xalisae,
Always love partying with you girly!! :)
Geo is out and about blessing others with the proclamation that he/she knows everything there is to know about everything. And everyone.
If the cell lined is cloned from the original.. then it stands to reason that the cell line is not from a fetus, but cloned from a fetus and thus 100% lab grown, correct? Thus the cloned cells are not fetal cells, but cloned copies of them.
I am pro-life all the way, but I am unsure of why it is wrong to purchase/consume Pepsi products. My understanding is that the research being done does not cause more abortions; if the babies have been killed already what is the harm in using them for research? I have already joined the boycott because when it comes to morals I like to air on the side of caution. The whole idea of using fetal cells for research does not sit well but I want a solid reason before I declare it right or wrong.
People please, listen to yourselves. I’m not here for pro-life or pro-choice reasons. I’m here for an all together different reason. Do any of you hear what you are saying? “Oh no, Pepsi owns another brand I use, guess I’ll have to find a new brand.” What the heck is wrong with you guys? Don’t you understand what the underlying problem here is? It isn’t that this company is doing something wrong NOW because you NOW know about a method they use. Their whole brand line of products has always been bad, straight from the get go. I hear some religious or Pro-life folk say that if they use a morally acceptable method, like using animal cells then it would be ok. That is just crazy. Sure, you’ll be happy then, but PETA will get all over it. But aside from that, do you understand what their reason is for trying to find flavor chemicals with either human or animal cells? It’s because we are consuming to much sugar and salt, resulting in diabetes and high blood pressure, among other problems. So the answer is more fake chemicals? Come on people, please stop falling for all this big money corporate nonsense. They are still selling you death in a can and you are buying it. You wanna drink tea Alice, go buy some loose tea and make some tea yourself. Why do you need to find another brand that uses fake materials to create something God all ready gave naturally? Come on folks. Boycott Pepsi if you want to, but do it for the right reasons, all of them. If them using these cells is ANOTHER reason then fine, but that should not stop you from boycotting all these other companies that are still poisoning you with fake crap flavor chemicals.
What is the big deal. Someone made a choice to abort a baby. Not Pepsico’s fault. Instead of being wasted someone figured out how to use the aborted fetal cells in developement of flavor. Bravo. Let nothing go to waste. Fetal cells have officially cured types of cancer and will do much more in the future. No one bitches about organ donors. Well stem cell research is the same thing. Stop crying and mind your own business. People won’t hate you that way.
cynical,
I don’t care if people hate me if I’m standing up for the right thing. It is NOT the same as organ donation, as people who CHOOSE to donate organs have agreed to it. It’s more like someone deciding to kill you while the criminal justice system looks the other way, AND THEN someone loots your dead body for any useable parts like a ghoulish Dr. Frankenstein. So no, I won’t mind my own business. And, I won’t stop crying for the 3,000+ children killed in abortions. Someone should mourn them.
Fetal cells have officially cured types of cancer
Another lying proabort. Imagine that. . . . . .
And I finally kicked my 25 year plus addiction to Mountain Dew in June. About 1600 cans per year.
so, if it was derived from an aborted fetus from the 70’s, it’s now 2012. i also have heard that there is now human DNA in corn. we all use corn syrup. SAME THING…. anyway, educate yourselves on vaccines. my granddughter became autistic from the MMR shot. She was a normal child, hitting all her milestones, talking, everything. Now, she’s seven, she won’t talk, she hits herself and she screams almost constantly, as if she’s in pain. and it was from that damn shot.
Hi Everyone,
I think they’ve been doing this for years. Pepsi’s slogans which we’ve been hearing for decades, and they’ve been using for decades are telling–Taste the one that’s FOREVER YOUNG……Pepsi’s got your Taste for LIFE……You got the right one BABY (sung by Ray Charles for DietPepsi)……GENERATION NEXT……A GENERATION AHEAD……..Every GENERATION refreshes the world…….See the following link–http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUobfgWomA. Don’t they all seem to be referring to the fetus? Is it a coincidence that they all seem to be? Nestle uses slogans Good Food, Good LIFE/MAKES THE VERY BEST……..For the KID IN YOU. Does this mean the people who generated the slogans were in on it? How could something so unbelievably evil be going on? Getting human beings to consume their own flesh and blood, while the perpetrators who devised the whole crime look on in glee. This worries me, as I don’t see this ending; where and what it all leading to? 99% of the world is unaware, and new Starbucks are opening up all the time, while their sales continue to soar into the billions. Warn everyone you know and don’t know.
Why is this legal?!?! If I –as a mother–were to sell my children, I would be thrown in jail. But it’s okay to buy/sell aborted babies for enormous profits?
Alot of products have to include nutrition labels, why not Pepsi and other products developed from the remains of an aborted baby?
I also think if the Mother has a “right to chose” then she also has a right “to give consent”. The Mother should sign a release before her baby is taken, and given part of the proceeds if that baby is sold to science. Honestly Ladies– Would you rather abort your child & have that child chopped up & sold to research labs?? OR keep the child or give him/her up for adoption>
I am currently an employee of pepsi and to hear of all this is sick. I’ve been a pepsi fan all my life and always wanted to work for them, but now I am searching for new employment. I refuse to work for a company or support a comany that practices this kind of behavior. I hope they go under.