Cardinal Dolan accents Life and religious freedom more at DNC than RNC
Cardinal Dolan must have thought Democrats needed more prayer cover than Republicans. His closing prayer at the Republican National Convention was 544 words, while at the Democratic National Convention it was 700 words. (Text of both here.)
Dolan began his prayer at both conventions with either an intentional or unintentional slight of Islam: “Almighty God, father of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus…” but not Ishmael, Abraham’s firstborn son by his wife’s maidservant Hagar, considered Muhammad’s ancestor.
Not many people likely noticed that, but I did, and I’m sure Muslims in the room fumed. (Photo right is of a prayer gathering of 300 Muslims in Charlotte before the launch of the DNC.)
In other words, Cardinal Dolan made sure everyone in the audience – and God – knew he was praying not to some ambiguous deity, of which so many are worshiped in the Democratic Party, particularly earth. It was a quiet, brilliant stroke of loyalty and defiance, IMO.
But moving on.
Many words in both prayers were similar, if not identical.
Those extra words in the Cardinal’s DNC prayer were dedicated to protection of the preborn, sick, elderly, religious freedom, and traditional marriage. He apparently thought he didn’t need to say so much at the RNC:
We ask your benediction upon those yet to be born, and on those who are about to see you at the end of this life….
Almighty God, who gives us the sacred and inalienable gift of life, we thank you as well for the singular gift of liberty. Renew in all of our people a respect for religious freedom in full, that first most cherished freedom….
May we know the truth of your creation, respecting the laws of nature and nature’s God, and not seek to replace it with idols of our own making. Give us the good sense not to cast aside the boundaries of righteous living you first inscribed in our hearts even before inscribing them on tablets of stone. May you mend our every flaw, confirming our soul in self-control, our liberty in law.
But DNC attendees got a bigger dose:
Help us to see that a society’s greatness is found above all in the respect it shows for the weakest and neediest among us.
We beseech you, almighty God to shed your grace on this noble experiment in ordered liberty, which began with the confident assertion of inalienable rights bestowed upon us by you: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Thus do we praise you for the gift of life. Grant us the courage to defend it, life, without which no other rights are secure. We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected. Strengthen our sick and our elders waiting to see your holy face at life’s end, that they may be accompanied by true compassion and cherished with the dignity due those who are infirm and fragile.
We praise and thank you for the gift of liberty. May this land of the free never lack those brave enough to defend our basic freedoms. Renew in all our people a profound respect for religious liberty: the first, most cherished freedom bequeathed upon us at our Founding….
We praise and thank you for granting us the life and the liberty by which we can pursue happiness. Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God. Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community…
With your grace, may all Americans choose wisely as we consider the future course of public policy….
Thank you, Cardinal Dolan. Here’s his DNC prayer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIoSATclypg[/youtube]
There are those who thought Cardinal Dolan shouldn’t attend the DNC, but in my view he was following Jesus’ example of bringing salt and light to darkness.
What better example could there be of misled Catholics in the Democrat Party in woeful need of shepherding than Caroline Kennedy, who inexplicably stated in her speech last night, “As a Catholic woman, I take reproductive health seriously, and today, it is under attack.” What? I felt so sad watching her.
[Top photo via wbobraadio.com; second photo via NBC; bottom photo via USA Today]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
He didn’t attend to pat them all on the back. He attended and attempted to pierce their hearts of stone with his godly words. Love the prayers!
I think Caroline Kennedy is greatly misinformed about the meaning of the word Catholic.
”Dear Jesus, return the heart of this nation to the righteous support of God’s Commandments as encapsulated in Holy Love. Vigorously defend life in this effort, as well as the tradition of marriage between a man and a woman. Realize that the acceptance of sin as a political issue is shaking hands with Satan, and giving evil an open door. Let all laws be in support of God’s Commandments; thereby strengthening the backbone of this great nation. Amen.”
DNC said no to Dolan before they said yes…just like the did to God and Israel.
I think Dolan is being given too much credit. This is a man involved in a religious freedom lawsuit against a Democrat president. By playing footsie with Obama and the Democrats, he is selling out Catholics and the Constitutional guarantee of religious freedom.
Prayer or no prayer, don’t think Obama is the least bit moved or prepared to change his mind about selling out the Catholic leadership. Cardinal Dolan, you can’t simultaneously condemn the violation of religious freedom and sit at the Devil’s table.
It probably requires a lot of meds to be a female kennedy.
Mary says: “By playing footsie with Obama and the Democrats, he is selling out Catholics and the Constitutional guarantee of religious freedom.”
Where you see “playing footsie” I see a man in the full armor of God confronting evil. Thank you Cardinal Dolan!
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. Ephesians 6:10-18
Hi Lrning,
Definitely a matter of perspective. I’m looking at it from inside Obama’s head, which is what you do with an SPD/NPD. Obama sees Dolan as someone he is playing for a chump. Obama has no intention of backing down and I assure you he has zero respect for Dolan and his efforts to play nice. Dolan may think that by playing nice he’s the better person and Obama will see the error of his ways. Ain’t gonna happen.
Let’s put it this way learning. Its like the owner of a pet boa constrictor who thinks all he has to do is be nice and the animal will be “tame” and “affectionate”. The animal’s nature can somehow be reprogrammed. The owner overlooks this animal’s true nature at his own peril, and disaster happens.
Exactly the mistake Dolan is making.
When it comes to dealing with SPD/NPDs lrning, always keep this analogy in mind. Its a lesson I had to learn the hard way many times.
Fantastic prayer. I’m so glad he offered to do that and that the DNC reconsidered and accepted his offer after all.
That prayer needed to be heard; not as a lecture, but as the truest example of what the Catholic Church stands for in a room full of lukewarm- or anti-Catholics. What could be more sincere than prayer?
For those who say Cardinal Dolan sold out, have you forgotten Matthew 5:44?
“But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
This prayer was the DNC honoring Cardinal Dolan and giving him a platform to speak; not the other way around. The Al Smith dinner is a terrible mistake, but not this.
Hi Andrew,
Like I said, keep my analogy in mind. However good and noble your intentions, never for a moment forget what you are dealing with. Its a brutal life lesson I have learned the hard way time and again.
Mary, No matter how morally-depraved Obama is, he is not a snake. That’s where your analogy falls flat.
He is a human being whom God wants to save just as much as you and me. We must hate and condemn evil, but we must also love and pray for the person committing it. Like I said, the Al Smith Dinner is a mistake, for part of the reason you describe, but the DNC prayer is completely different.
Cardinal Dolan openly defied the DNC platform on their stage. How can you not see how awesome that is? Of course it won’t do anything for Obama (or at least it’s extremely unlikely), but more people were watching than just Obama. What about the lukewarm, Democrat, on-the-fence-pro-choice, Catholics watching the DNC? They heard the truth last night.
And yet, all I can think of is Matthew 7:6
Do not cast your pearls before swine
Hi Andrew,
I didn’t say he was a snake. I made an analogy that you would do well to always keep in mind.
We view this from 2 different perspectives. Yours from the religious, which I respect, and mine from life’s reality, which I also repsect. You see Andrew, I grew up surrounded by these people, you had only to come to a family gathering of mine to know there has to be a genetic link with these disorders. My NPD sister and SPD/borderline father would get into fights with knives bared, literally. My NPD stepbrother threw me over a chair and into a wall, typical narcissitic rage. Then schmoozied and played nice and repentent, actually he didn’t want my parents to find out.
Andrew, the number one rule when dealing with a sociopath/narcissist(very little seperates them) is to never, and I mean never, disregard their nature. Do NOT project onto these people what isn’t there, an easy trap to fall into. You best protect yourself and serve your interests by getting inside their heads and thinking as they do.
Take my word for it that Obama has nothing but seething contempt for Dolan. Dolan actually has the temerity to file a suit against him…HIM! Obama ain’t gonna back down, period. See, I get in Obama’s head and think like he does. I know a personality like Obama will only respect someone as dirty as he is, not someone playing footsie.
I understand and respect your perspective Andrew, and how I wish it were only true.
My advice, for what its worth, is get inside the man’s head and think as he does. That’s our only chance of ever defeating him.
My advice, for what its worth, is get inside the man’s head and think as he does. That’s our only chance of ever defeating him.
Um, no. That might be the job of political strategists. That is not the job of Cardinal Dolan. His job is to proclaim God’s truth and to engage in whatever spiritual warfare is necessary. From where I sit, it looks like the Cardinal is doing exactly as he should.
Hi lrning,
IMO part of God’s truth is that when he gave us a brain, it wasn’t to seperate our ears.
Sorry lrning, but its the world we live in and the people who live in it. You either know what you are up against or you don’t stand a chance. Yes it is the cardinal’s job to know how his opponents think and to act accordingly. That is what offers him the best chance, not having your opponent view you with contempt and disrespect.
The Cardinal may indeed have the best of intentions, but you know what the road to hell is paved with.
“That is what offers him the best chance, not having your opponent view you with contempt and disrespect.”
The best chance of what? It is not the Cardinal’s job to know what his opponents think and act accordingly. It is his job to know God’s will and act accordingly.
Jesus’ opponents viewed him with contempt and disrespect.
Hi Lrning,
I beg to differ. It IS the Cardinal’s job if he is going to best serve his flock. Jesus’ opponents killed him. As I recall, Jesus was also under no illusions where his opponents were concerned. He knew who they were and how they would react.
Pres. Clinton would like this:
Cardinal Dolan 1
Barack Obama 0
Mary I agree with your assessment of BO; but last night’s prayer showed me that Cardinal Dolan understands who he is up against. He appears to understand that demonic principalities and powers are influencing Democratic party and its leader.
Another thing Lrning,
I recall that Jesus served his flock in defiance of his opponents. I don’t recall reading that he tried to play along with the political scene or power structure.
Hi Tyler,
I respect your viewpoint, but my mind remains unchanged. Maybe the Cardinal influenced a few people, I’ll give you that. Other than that, I think he did his flock a huge disservice.
Other than that, I think he did his flock a huge disservice.
It seems you’re forgetting that more than half of his flock votes Democrat. Not taking an opportunity to speak to that misguided majority of his flock would have been a disservice. Didn’t the Good Shepherd leave the 99 to rescue the 1?
Hi Andrew,
Yes I know most Catholics vote Democrat, and why do they? Why did most Catholics vote for Obama? Maybe the Catholic leadership isn’t doing its job. But wait, they got taken for a ride too, right? Sorry Andrew, I remain convinced that Dolan could only be perceived as schmoozing Obama and the Democrat power structure.
Mary,
Cardinal Dolan has to go after the lost sheep, even if it means going to where the pack of wolves chow down.
I agree with Andrew’s comment. Cardinal Dolan saying a prayer at the D&C is different from inviting the President to the Al Smith dinner. The former is part of job; the latter is not.
Maybe the Catholic leadership isn’t doing its job.
So when “the Catholic leadership” starts doing its job, it’s selling out?
I remain convinced that Dolan could only be perceived as schmoozing Obama and the Democrat power structure.
Then I don’t think you listened to his prayer very carefully. He repeatedly contradicted their three most cherished “values”: abortion, gay “marriage”, and the oppression/elimination of religious freedom.
Funny, Dolan and his fellow bishops haven’t denied communion to any pro-choice Catholic politician. While we know that these folks have “self-excommunicated,” the bishops and the pope have not issued, as they did back in the day, official proclamations of excommunication. Actually, in the 80’s, the RI bishop officially proclaimed that the head of our Planned Parenthood was excommunicated. But Dolan has issued no such harsh words to NY Governor Andrew Cuomo and others who are pro-choice.
But there were Catholics at the Democratic convention especially given the number of Hispanics. But they are the social justice Catholics (Yeah, heretics, we know) whose views comport with Sister Simone Campbell who also prayed before the group. Campbell (and those nuns in her organization which covers about 80% of American nuns) are focused on the sick and the poor whilst Dolan is focused on living the life of luxury. But he’s anti-abortion so he’s the real Catholic, right?
Hi Andrew 12:23PM
Sorry Andrew, I don’t see Dolan as doing his job. I see him and the Catholic leadership as failing all along to do so, that is until Obama kicked them in the teeth. I perceive this as schmoozing the power structure and I suspect I am not alone. The prayer is fine, but its too little too late. If Dolan and the Catholic leadership had done their jobs, maybe so many Catholics and their leaders would have never been taken in to begin with. The damage is done and Catholics are paying a price. They got sold out.
Mary, you’re stuck in the past and not at all addressing what I said. Regardless of how we got to this point, what would you have Cardinal Dolan do now if not reach out to Catholic Democrats and try to bring them the truth?
“Too little, too late” is a quitter’s mindset. I, for one, don’t believe any Catholics – laity or clergy – should give up just because of past mistakes. We need to correct them, and for the most part, I believe that is exactly what Cardinal Dolan is doing.
P.S. You do know that Cardinal Dolan has only been a Cardinal and in his current post for a very short time right?
I just thank God that Cardinal Dolan doesn’t get his orders from you, Mary. God’s ways are not our ways. I much prefer a Cardinal that is seeking to do God’s will than one that is seeking to get inside the head and think like the President of the U.S.
CC, thanks for your post, it reminded me of a distinction I wanted to make: there is no such thing as Social Justice Catholics, there are only Catholics who do works of social justice. I think the label that you are looking for that would describe the Catholics in the Democratic party is “Pro-government Catholics.” These Pro-government Catholics conflate social justice with government assistance or government run programs. Social Justice, in truth, can be carried out in different forms: by individuals, private institutions, or by government. The Catholics in the Democratic party seem to forget this fact and seem to think that only social justice done through the government is true social justice, which is simply not true. Even health care doesn’t have to be provided by government in order to be considered an act of social justice. The Pro-government Catholics need to stop their love affair with government, they need to stop worshipping government, and they need to start worshipping God and to start doing social justice outside of the government.
Hi Andrew,
I’m not stuck in the past, I’m pointing out the position Catholics are now in and how they got there.
I would expect Dolan to make his displeasure with Obama known. Appeal to Catholic supporters of Obama through the Catholic media and cable media, which has a greater viewership. Make his voice heard in any and every way. Encourage other Catholic clergy, leaders, and lay people to do the same. This is what all Catholic leadership, not just Dolan, should be doing.
Sometimes silence speaks volumes. Refuse to appear with Obama to that dinner, what’s it called, instead of being seen yukking it up with him. Refuse to appear at the DNC convention.
Maybe Dolan thinks being a nice guy with serve his cause and flock. He may have the best intentions. But as I said, that’s what the road to hell is paved with.
But they are the social justice Catholics
Protecting all humans from slaughter is social justice.
(and those nuns in her organization which covers about 80% of American nuns)
How many of these nuns support legalized abortion, CC? Let us know so we can comprehend who is really selling out Catholics. The fact that you are enamored with proabort “nuns” speaks volumes.
CC, my issue is not the Catholics in the Democratic party want to do acts of social justice, it is often with what they consider to be social justice. Abortion is not social justice. Just because you call something social justice doesn’t mean it is. Democrats need to stop corrupting the language.
Hi lrning, 12:57PM
Dolan might well have better served his flock and God by knowing how his opponent thinks and acting accordingly. An important rule concerning SPD/NPDs. They know a schmuck when they see one and will zero in. Usually someone who wants to be nice and reach out is a favorite target.
That’s what I mean lrning, know your opponent and how he/she thinks.
I would expect Dolan to make his displeasure with Obama known.
Are you seriously suggesting he hasn’t yet?
Appeal to Catholic supporters of Obama through the Catholic media and cable media, which has a greater viewership.
Yeah, since we all know that Catholics In Name Only watch Catholic media all the time…
Make his voice heard in any and every way.
I agree, and I believe this was one of those ways.
Encourage other Catholic clergy, leaders, and lay people to do the same. This is what all Catholic leadership, not just Dolan, should be doing.
He has. Have you by chance seen the letters the USCCB has sent to every pastor of every parish in the nation regarding Obama’s HHS Mandate and the forcing of military chaplains to perform gay marriages? If not, that’s a failure on your pastor’s part, not the Catholic leadership.
I know what you meant, Mary. I just disagree. I think assuming that Obama’s worldly power is greater than the power of God is a mistake.
I take heart that God knows exactly what Obama is thinking/planning/capable of. Even though I may not understand the reasons, if Cardinal Dolan’s actions are being led by the Holy Spirit, then thanks be to God. You are welcome to conclude this means I’m not using my brain. If putting trust in the Lord and not assuming I know better than the Cardinal means people think my brain is just separating my ears…whatever.
Hi Andrew,
If he has expressed his displeasure he certainly tempered it by appearing with Obama at that dinner.
Don’t Catholics watch cable? Don’t they attend church? Don’t they get church newsletters?
Yeah, he was heard praying. Apparently the viewership was very low, so the Catholics reached, or who even cared, is questionable.
If the word is getting out, great. But Catholics need to see their leaders stand firm, not schmooze Obama. That dinner incident was appalling.
Um, “that dinner” hasn’t even happened yet.
Hi lrning,
I hardly consider Obama’s worldly power greater than God’s, though I’m sure that would be news to Obama.
Look at it this way lrning, did Jesus play along with the power structure, or did he appeal directly to the masses? Did he yuk it up with Herod? Did Jesus not understand how his opponents perieved him and what to expect from them and if anything work in defiance of them? Did he not make his displeasure known? Did he ever stand on the balcony of Herod’s palace and speak to the masses? Think of all the people he could have reached that way.
Mary says “Look at it this way lrning…”
No thanks. We do not share the same opinion or perspective. I’m okay with that. You seem to prefer to think that Cardinal Dolan is a twit who believes Obama is his best buddy. I’ve seen enough evidence from the Cardinal’s writings, interviews, and actions to conclude that he is not.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
The Catholic Church and all Christians have got to come to the understanding that their primary responsibility is to bring people to Jesus Christ. The law came from Moses and was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The Constitution of the United States of America was founded on that premise. All of these founders were men. Noah took a members of all species, both male and female aboard the boat in order to continue save Gods creation. The Old Testament testifies to mans obedience and disobedience and the New Testament teaches us how to live. We have to ask ourselves where did we begin to fall by the wayside on the social issues that plague us today. It is my contention that it began with the development of the birth control pill which overnight began to contribute to the fall of the human family resulting the social ills we face today not to mention the cost of infectious disease treatment all for profit in the name of freedom. Whether it be abortion, same sex attraction, pediphelia, prostitution, you name it, it is very closely linked to the failure of mankind to face up to the issue of sanctity of life and deal with it. It is born out of the sin of LUST. It makes no sense to condemn Islam or any other religion of the world for that matter. It makes sense to declare what Jesus Christ would say about these behaviors and let it be known to mankind. In Proverbs, God speaks to MEN and their responsibility for Godly behavior in their relationship with women. It is Jesus Christ, a male figure, who taught the “Woman at the Well” how to live and follow Him who was is is worthy to be followed. It is AKA known as RESPECT. And to those health care professionals and clergy who lead those and support those into sinful behavior, well let me say this, I hate to think what their reward will be.
Hi lrning, 1:36PM
I stand corrected. The dinner is not until October. Who knows, maybe Dolan won’t be yukking it up with Obama after all. Guess we will have to wait and see, though I assume that when you invite someone, you have every intention of being a gracious host/hostess.
lrning 2:13PM
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said Dolan was a twit. I believe Dolan has good intentions, but he’s a man who was sold out, who made the mistake of trusting a sociopath.
That’s a bitter pill to swallow and I sympathize with Dolan.
http://nation.foxnews.com/archbishop-dolan/2010/02/10/dolan-skeptical-obama-accuses-him-breaking-promise
All the more reason he should not be perceived by the public, and especially Obama, as schmoozing. He should conduct himself as a leader greatly angered at this betrayal of himself and his flock.
I retried the link and it still doesn’t work, sorry. Anyway its an excellent article on how Obama broke a promise to Dolan concerning insurance coverage of contraception.
Mary says: “Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said Dolan was a twit.”
Ah, my mistake. I should have written “schmuck”.
“They know a schmuck when they see one and will zero in.”
lrning,
I was making a general statement, not calling Dolan any names.
If anything I was speaking from my own experience as it has happened to me more than once.
People who have followed my past posts know I have used that terminology to describe the actions of sociopaths.
“The Constitution of the United States of America was founded on that premise”
It was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment and English Common Law. There is no mention of ”God” in the Constitution.
“All of these founders were men.”
And women had very few legal rights. Blacks and native Americans had none.
”birth control pill which overnight began to contribute to the fall of the human family resulting the social ills we face today”
Venereal diseases were around long before the birth control pill.
Dolan is nothing if not politic. He knows where his bread is buttered and, thus, will never totally alienate himself from the Democrats even if they’re pro-choice.
Venereal diseases were around long before the birth control pill.
Right. But have they increased or decreased since the pill? By how much?
will never totally alienate himself from the Democrats even if they’re pro-choice.
I think the goal is to bring the Dems to reality, CC. Of course, we know many of them will never get there.
As far as buttered bread, I thought you believed the Republicans control all the butter. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Yep, they hate the followers of Jesus unless those followers kill babies. cc, when Dolan prayed, he also included you. There are many kinds of poverty. Yours is the most grave; spiritual poverty. It’s never to late to embrace life.
Funny, I’ve never seen any of these so-called “Social Justice Nuns” who care oh-so-much for the poor that they can’t be bothered to wear the habit in church asking for donations. Instead I have only seen the Little Sisters of the Poor, real nuns who actually wear the habit and who are actually Catholic asking for donations to help the poor.
and how many attempts did it take before the ‘chair’ could declare the ‘amen’ passed?
“There are those who thought Cardinal Dolan shouldn’t attend the DNC, but in my view he was following Jesus’ example of bringing salt and light to darkness.”
or
dis-regaarding “Do not give that which is holy (the sacred thing) to the dogs, and do not throw your pearls before hogs, lest they trample upon them with their feet and turn and tear you in pieces.”
Hey Ken, I don’t think everyone in attendance at the DNC is a “dog” or a “hog.” Some have been misled by friends and families. Some have been brainwashed or were never taught right from wrong. Some are too young or uneducated to fully understand all the issues. Yes, some of our “learning” institutions are trying everything to keep them uneducated.
However, I do agree that there were many animals in attendance. And we all know that there was one big boar there.
not CatholiC says: September 7, 2012 at 3:13 pm “There is no mention of ”God” in the Constitution.”
Wrong……again.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Attest William Jackson Secretary
…”done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,”…
‘our Lord’ could only refer to the Jesus the Christ, the Son of God.
They are certainly NOT referring to any mortal monarch.
Some of these same men were also signatories to the Declaration of Independence.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Andrew Ensley says: September 7, 2012 at 10:20 am “The Al Smith dinner is a terrible mistake, but not this.”
A ‘mistake’ is dialing the wrong number, calling your own child by the wrong name, mis-spelling a word,etc…
Dolan, personally inviting b o to be the featured speaker at a ‘catholic’ fund raiser is NOT a ‘mistake’, it was and is, something else entirely.
praxedes,
point taken, but I am sure Jesus’ took that probability into consideration, before leaving us the admonition.
Dolan, failed to use ‘good judgement’….again.
I do believe political pundits and exit polling have confirmed it was the ‘catholic’ votes that gave b o the margin of victory in the 2008 election.
ktb, Cardinal Dolan made the right decision in taking that opportunity to speak the truth to the ‘catholic’ vote. They needed to hear what Cardinal Dolan had to say. It is ALWAYS a good time to spread God’s message. imo you are wrong on this one.
Mary says: September 7, 2012 at 10:15 am “I’m looking at it from inside Obama’s head, ”
Mary,
Take necessary precaution. Do not get ‘sucked in’ and trapped there. I have read that even light cannot escape.
ts,
If the salt has lost it’s savor…
opinions are like elbows, all of us have one or two to which we are firmly attached.
Dolan going to the DNC is not quite the same as Mother Teresa rescuing the outcasts from the gutters.
I recommend you read Metaxas’ biography of Dietrich Bonhoefer. It might give you a fuller perspective about religious leaders seeking to curry favor and protection from the ravenous wolves. History is valueable that way.
If he was seeking curry and favor he would have spewed a bunch of pc bs. He didn’t.
Andrew Ensley says: September 7, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Mary: Other than that, I think he did his flock a huge disservice.
Andrew: It seems you’re forgetting that more than half of his flock votes Democrat.
[If more than half of New York catholics vote democRAT, then that is evidence that Dolan’s approach is counterproductive. They would be better served by Mary@10:24am.]
Ex-RINO,
Is Minnesota part of the New York diocese.
Ex-RINO: “For the record, I have three kids, my wife and I would never ever have considered an abortion, and I’m against it as I equate it to murder.”
Ex-RINO: “…at the end of the day, I’m more likely than not to vote Democrat…”
EX-RINO: “I’ve actually started to seriously think about not voting this election.”
[Now there are two signs of progress: 1. Ex-RINO has begun to ‘seriously’ think and 2. he may not vote democRAT.
I attribute this glimmer of hope more to Mary@10:24am than to Dolan.]
I have to agree with TruthSeeker. Praying for the DNC was a step in the direction of waking up the Catholics who voted for Obama; not a show of support for their actions. I really don’t see how it could be perceived any other way.
Like Praxedes said, there are many there who have been deceived (and many more who have allowed themselves to be deceived). They need to be reached on their own level. They need to hear the truth spoken in love. That’s what Cardinal Dolan did.
Hi Ken 10:30am
Amen to that. I have asked supporters of Dolan on this board if Jesus attempted to curry favor with tyrants like Herod. Think about it. Would Jesus have accepted an invitation to address the massive crowds from Herod’s palace? I have yet to get an answer. Like you I see the danger and capitulation of this. Again history can teach us much. While British PM Neville Chamberlain was not clergy, he was desperately trying to avoid a war. In doing so he appeased and capitulated to Hitler. He tried so hard to play nice. Had he better understood his opponent’s mentality, he would know that Hitler would have no respect for efforts at appeasement, only seething contempt. He would also know this is not a man to be trusted. A major war in Europe began as a result as the result of Chamberlain’s good intentions.
Like it or not folks Dolan must understand the mentality he is dealing with, however good his intentions. He has already endured a major betrayal by Obama. Obama absolutely will never back down or apologize. Obama perceives Dolan as playing nice. He has only seething contempt for the man he sees as capitulating. Catholics are outraged at the Al Smith dinner invitation and rightfully so. I view Dolan as betraying Catholics, and I’m not even Catholic.
Indeed Ken, history has taught us much, be it clergy or not, as to what happens when efforts are made to curry favor with tyrants.
ts and Andrew,
That is YOUR perspectives. Not Obama’s. He sees a man and a group of people he can betray with no consequence. His contempt for Dolan is seething, and the more Dolan plays nice, the more Obama loathes him.
Sorry folks, but Obama only sees this as a capitulation, and its how Obama sees it that ultimately matters. Dolan wants to reach his flock? Well he sure had no problem tuning them out when it came to the Al Smith dinner. After this, I would think his flock has no more respect for him than Obama does. And the ones he did “reach” will mindlessly support Obama like they always have.
Please listen to Ken and me when we point out the consequences of appeasing tyrants, however big or small.
Also, like it or not, understanding the mentality of your opponent and seeing yourself through his/her eyes IS important.
C’mon people. Doesn’t everyone know that taking someone to task = attempting to “curry favor”?
Mary, what parts of Cardinal Dolan’s speech makes you say that he was ‘playing nice’? And I don’t think he trusts Obama. When Obama implemented his contraceptive mandate Dolan called Obama a liar. And I think Obama will be squirming all night at that Al Smith dinner. I would like to be a fly on the wall near that table. One thing that won’t get fed at this dinner party is Obama’s ego.
Hi ts,
Exactly, he called Obama a liar. He was betrayed by Obama. You think Obama will be squirming all nite at that dinner? Only in your dreams. You are projecting onto Obama emotions and thought processes he does not possess. Please ts, this is an example of why one must know how their opponent thinks.
The message Obama is getting is one of appeasement and capitulation. From what I understand, any number of Catholics who vehemently object to this invitation share my perspective. Its a sellout. I know this isn’t what you want to hear but its the real world.
Obama couldn’t care less what Dolan says. Obama will never back down or apologize, and he will never feel any type of remorse for his betrayal. It served his purpose. Good grief ts this is a man who threw his minister, mentor and friend of 20 years under the bus when it suited him politically. Whatever you think of Wright you have to admit that was pretty crappy. Doesn’t that tell you something about how Obama thinks?
ts, Obama’s ego is being fed very well. Who do you think really has the upper hand here?
Hi Lrning,
How was Obama taken to task? Did you know that one of the talents of an SPD is to make you think you’ve got the upper hand when in fact you’re just being played for a sap?
It was a great speech.
Mary, you are projecting on Obama powers and sensibilities the man does not posess. He will squirm and he will lie again and he will deflect and he will lie some more. And he will be reduced to a stammering fool. Cardinal Dolan will stand with the Lord…need I say who I think has the upper hand?
Shoes Thrower. Yes it was. When righteous men like Cardinal Dolan speak there every word sounds like prayer and prayer comes from their lips as easily as speking comes to you or I.
ts,
Not at all, I see the man for what he is and how he thinks. You are the one projecting emotions onto this man that he does not possess. An easy trap to fall into with SPD/NPDs.
Done it myself more times than I care to admit to.
Of course he will lie, time and again, an SPD trait. Squirm? NO. See ts, to squirm you need a sense of remorse and shame. Not something Obama has any capacity for. Reduced to a stammering fool? Won’t happen. If anyone looks like a fool its Dolan. Also, I seriously doubt Dolan has any intention of being anything other than a gracious host. Probably thinks it will score points with Obama. Another assumption that should never be made with and SPD/NPD. Its much more likely you are being manipulated into something that benefits them.
Though I am not religious, I think Dolan would have better stood with the Lord by listening to and respecting his flock. The upper hand? Definitely Obama.
Being remorseful is not a requirement to being uncomfortable. Being SPD he will be spending the evening trying to avoid confrontation in any way possible (squirming) cause he will be out of his element there. The people at this dinner will be only speaking about the evil that has permeated our society in the killing of the unborn (Obama squirms). The dinner guest list here is not exactly going to be what Obama’s ego is used to at his rallies.
Neither of us knows for sure what will transpire but the more I think about it; the less chance I see for any down side. Yes Cardinal Dolan’s job is to listen to his flock; but then pray on it and ask the Lord for guidance; and then lead his flock. This won’t be an honorary award ceremony like the farce at Notre Dame. I think it will be a lot of fun and I have faith that Cardinal Dolan is the right man for the task at hand. In fact, after that prayer Dolan gave at the D&C convention; I think team Obama is probably squirming to find an urgent scheduling conflict to avoid the dinner all together.
ts,
As an SPD he will be manipulative and charming and completely at ease. He will know exactly what you want to hear and say it. He won’t give a fat flying about any evil permeating our society. He will convince you that yes, I understand and sympathize, when in fact he’s just playing you for a sap. You will leave convinced that you have truly influenced and changed his mind. He will leave happy at pulling such a fast one. SPDs enjoy that type of thing.
ts, I like and respect you. I grew up with these PDs. I still have family members who’s PDs I have to know how to deal with. I shudder when I see a young relative display certain very ominous personality traits and desperately hope I am wrong.
Please take heed when I warn you about knowing what kind of mind you are dealing with.
Thank you Mary. I like and respect you very much too :) and I take heed of what you are saying. I believe you are correct about Obama’s ominous personality traits. I will include Cardinal Dolan in my prayers so that he will not let Obama play him for a fool at this dinner.
Hi ts,
Dolan will definitely need your prayers and that of so many. If I may be so presumptuous I think you should pray that Dolan face up to and understand what he is up against concerning Obama. As I said I like and respect you. I see you as a person of deep conviction and faith and I understand you only want to believe the best of the Cardinal and his intentions. I don’t question his intentions, I am concerned about what he and the people of this country are up against.
It’s amazing the lengths people will go to to protest that Caroiline Kennedy wasn’t shilling for abortion.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-friends-weekend/index.html#/v/1830978097001/reaction-to-caroline-kennedys-abortion-comments/?playlist_id=163197