Home picket of Planned Parenthood exec draws anti-free speech ordinance; media balks
Recall my post about Planned Parenthood of Greater Orlando CEO Jenna Tosh crying when pro-life activists picketed her Winter Park, Florida, home on August 18.
Jenna was rewarded for her embarrassment by a meet and greet with President Obama when he breezed through Orlando for an August 30 fundraiser.
YouTube won’t remove a video that has contributed to riots and murders of U.S. officials and troops throughout the Middle East, but it quickly removed the video of this pro-life protest. Outing people who kill babies is more dangerous to the world than dissing Muhammad. Nevertheless, the video is available now at Pro-LifeTube.com.
After getting the damaging video removed from YouTube, Tosh complained to the Winter Park City Commission, which quickly enacted an “emergency public safety ordinance” that banned public protests within 50 feet of a private residence. On September 10 the Commission voted 4-1 to make the ordinance permanent. A second vote on September 24 will ratify the ordinance.
Voting against the ordinance was Winter Park Mayor Ken Bradley, who rightly understood it to be an assault against free speech.
Also now opposing the ordinance is the Orlando Sentinel, which posted an astute editorial on September 16:
We might have been inclined give city officials a hearty attaboy for being so responsive to a resident – had commissioners not managed in the process to abridge everyone else’s free-speech rights.
Winter Park modeled its measure after ordinances that passed constitutional muster, so we aren’t arguing legal merits.
But we do question the knee-jerk response to a single citizen’s complaint – precipitated by the distribution of pro-life handouts and, nearly a week later, some nonviolent picketing. And we question the need for a new law when laws exist to protect citizens against protests that grow unruly.
And we question why government officials are so quick to crack down on freedom of speech. Imagine the outcry if commissioners had tried to go after the Second Amendment.
Having to push past protesters toting signs that read “Jenna Tosh kills babies and hurts women” certainly is unpleasant. We sympathize with her.
However, her need to avoid disturbing, anti-abortion expressions outside her home shouldn’t trump the rights of the many to exercise their First Amendment rights within public areas in residential areas.
That’s something Bradley wisely understood: “I just can’t vote to stop free speech,” he said.
On Sept. 24, the ordinance is up for a final vote. This time, commissioners should follow their mayor’s lead.
City Attorney Larry Brown, pictured right, thinks the ordinance will withstand constitutional muster. He cited a similar ordinance that had – but another that had not. I spoke with pro-life activist Jay Rogers last night, who told me he has already been contacted by three separate legal groups that specialize in upholding pro-life free speech. If Winter Park officials insist on ratifying the ordinance, a court challenge is promised. Brown’s reputation will then be on the line, although any public humiliation he suffers will surely be offset by the fattened paycheck he gets from the city for the extra hours he has to spend on this.
Some unintended consequences, quoting the Winter Park/Maidland Observer:
UCF’s Brett, a constitutional law specialist, said that depends on the ordinance covering all of its bases, which cities frequently fail to do.
He said that the ordinance might be challenged based on infringing on free speech rights at businesses, churches, public parks, etc., that are within the no-protest zone in neighborhoods.
“What happens if you have a Baptist church that’s sponsoring an operation rescue rally, and that happens to be in a residential neighborhood?” Brett said. “Not only do you have conflicts of free speech, but also conflicts of free exercise of religion.”
Does the Commission really want to waste taxpayer money on legal fees and continue to draw controversy? If so, it doesn’t understand pro-life activists, who the press is siding with.
Orlando pro-lifers don’t actually mind this skirmish, Rogers told me. Abortion proponents and the media frequently attempt to ignore their protests. Now, thanks to Tosh’s (exaggerated) complaints, they’re not. All the attention only spotlights the atrocity of abortion as well as the scandal brought to bear against those committing it.
At 28 years old, Tosh is an unseasoned abortion industry hack. Veterans would have told her to ignore the protest and let the controversy die down.
Tosh has only inspired more of the same in more creative ways. I’ve been told the plans.
Winter Park, welcome to the fact that abortion brings chaos to society. No justice, no peace.
[Photo of Brown via Seminole Voice]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Wow…Oba-dpresident even came to visit her? It’s almost like he has a personal bone to pick with you, Jill, and he stalks your blog. But we all know that can’t be, because it wouldn’t be keeping with the “new tone” The Chosen One has requested. Right? 9_9
@xalisae: Obama reading this blog would be too hilarious to be true. And he’d have to be at least the tiniest bit self-aware enough to recognize that understanding his opposition could be beneficial to him.
I guess I don’t see a problem with the city saying you can’t protest in front of a person’s house. Freedom of speech comes with some responsibilities and one of them is respect for others. If we, on the pro life side want to be heard, we need to have respect for others. I thought this protest was in very poor taste. Protest PP, but let’s stay away from peoples’ houses. We get very upset when personal addresses and social media tags are put out in the media and then people are personally attacked. Let’s not do it ourselves. Let’s stand out and show some mercy and love. Do you think Jenna Tosh will ever want to be pro life? Probably not if it means she will be like those people in front of her house.
Laura says: I guess I don’t see a problem with the city saying you can’t protest in front of a person’s house.
Then you don’t have a problem with your right to free speech being curtailed. I do. If that same ordinance were enacted in my town it would mean teachers would not be allowed to picket at the schools if they went on strike, citizens could not protest at any public parks, the library and the post office would be off limits, and many businesses would be in protest-free zones.
”Protest PP, but let’s stay away from peoples’ houses.”
pp is not an inamimate edifice. pp is people.
“Do you think Jenna Tosh will ever want to be pro life?”
No and I am under no illusion that the public exposure will soften or change her cold dead heart one iota.
But it might give another person pause for thought when considering embarking on a career with the ‘dead babies r us’ mob.
“Let’s stand out and show some mercy and love.”
The picketers were demonstrating ‘mercy and love’ for Tosh’s past and future victims and an argument could be made they were also demonstrating ‘mercy and love’ for Tosh.
I could give you chapter and verse, but Holy Spirit will do it a lot more effectively than I.
Being prolife isn’t like joining a “club!” Picking the folks you want to hang out with and deciding that well “they aren’t my type.”
Being prolife comes from the heart. A heart filled with mercy and love and justice for ALL life. A belief and conviction that every life has value and inherent worth and must be protected from conception!!
I will be praying for Tosh. God can soften her heart and open her eyes to THE TRUTH of what she does for a living.
I certainly hope Winter Park City Commission solved every other problem in the city before wasting their time on this.
First of all, i wasn’t saying that we should not be able to protest AT ALL, just not at people’s personal residences. Would you want a large group of people in front of your house protesting your beliefs, views, vocation, whatever? Even as the Bible says that as Christians we will face persecution, i hope it’s not at the place I feel safest. Though I am pro-life and a Christian and opposed to all things pro-choice, I am often bothered by pro life people seeing people who are pro-choice being somehow non-human. We need to be different than they are. Let’s treat them as we want to be treated. Yes, we want her heart to be changed, that comes through love, not protest. You want to change her heart? Write her a letter, show her love, don’t threaten her sense of safety for herself and her family. And the letter should be words of love, truth, and encouragement, not condemnation. Christ does not condemn her, we have no right to either.none of us are without sinful aspects of our lives. Abortion is no different than gossip or judgment in God’s eyes. It is all sin and rebellion against Him and His design and plan for our lives. Let’s write letters to all employees of PP and tell them that God loves them. Yes, He wants them to change their hearts, He wants no one to lose eternity with Him, but let’s show love instead of condemnation.no account in the gospels shows Jesus staging protests at peoples’ homes.
Laura says: First of all, i wasn’t saying that we should not be able to protest AT ALL, just not at people’s personal residences.
But the ordinance that’s the topic of this blog post states that no protests can happen within 50 feet of a private residence. In highly populated areas that will often mean that protesting cannot happen at public places. In my town, that means schools, parks, the post office, and the library (all public places) would be protest-free zones because they are all close to residences. So personal distaste for the type of protest that happened at Jenna Tosh’s home led to an ordinance that could curtail a whole lot of free speech. IMO, that is wrong.
so does that mean if the same thing happened to you – a group of pro choicers protesting in front of your house – that you would walk out onto your driveway and shout “Bravo, you are exercising your right to free speech! Protest me! Yes!” as your children cried inside for fear of what the mob might do? Of would you hope your town put effort into making sure things like this didn’t happen again. Free speech, again, cones with responsibility. We hide behind this right thinking we can throw spears and no one can do anything about it. We do it to ourselves when we say and do direspectful things against other people. Having rights comes with understanding the boundaries of them. God gives us guidelines to live by not to oppress us, but to keep us safe and protected. So it is with our constitutional rights. As we abuse our rights, the boundaries will shrink.
I will add that I’m not sure whether or not home protests are effective, or if they repel more people than they attract, but people totally have the right to do them. It’s very disturbing that we have a society where the government feels they can take such hevy handed steps to oppose speech they don’t like.
Laura, hon, God is a God of love – but primarily, He is Holy. And He is also a God of justice. Read the Bible; Christ did not writer tender letters to the moneychangers in the temple who were desecrating the House of God – He flipped some tables over and was slashing a whip around! There are times for compassion, and there are times for a more forcible demonstration of justice. I’m not saying that I would protest a person’s home, or that we should kill or hurt people. But sometimes a bolder approach is necessary. Do you realize what we’re combating against? That’s right, the murder of unborn children, women’s lives shattered, families broken, men’s hearts and sense of purpose obliterated. Abortion is evil and needs to be abolished. Abortion destroys. If I had lived during WWII in Germany, I would hope to God that I didn’t sit in the comfort of my home and write “compassionate” letters to Nazis and SS officials asking them, would you be please be a little nicer? Jesus loves you. Yes, that’s good, but I hope I’d be out there trying to actually save Jews, trying to let them know that Jews are humans. Peaceful resistance is still resistance and evil has to be resisted.
Also, how on earth are pro-lifers treating abortionists as if they’re non-human?? Of all people, you’re accusing pro-lifers as treating others without respect? I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that someone who is murdering unborn babies is, yes, a person, but who is committing great acts of evil. And I’m not saying that abortionists can’t be saved or aren’t human, but I’m saying that at this point in time, their blood-covered hands are committing murder of the most helpless innocents. And that is what I am protesting. Not their worth as humans, but their acts as abortionists. If we can’t call out injustice when we see it, what good are we? Why even try?
And yes, I absolutely would be honored if pro-abortionists were protesting my home. Then I’d know that I had done something right. I might take the children to grandma’s or something, but first I would say, “See those angry people out there? They’re mad at mommy and daddy because we want to save babies. Isn’t that sad? They’re messed up. Don’t fear them; pray for them. They just mean that we’re doing the right thing.” So many people who do the right thing are persecuted. It’s life. And if this lady is *so* proud of her job, why doesn’t she retort the protesters? Why doesn’t she see it as affirmation that her work for “women’s health” and “women’s rights” is right on the money? Hmm?
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Nothing against you, Laura, but it bothers me when you try to make pro-lifers who engage in peaceful protesting as bad.
PS and no matter who is protesting on my doorstep, I’d rather have my friends and family help than government officials! Who boy, that would be make things worse. As Ronald Reagan allegedly said: “the scariest words in the English language are: I’m from the government, and I’m here to help!”
Yes I realize Jesus protested the money changers at the Temple – it was His Father’s house and they were committing blasphemy. Yes, there is time for more forceful and more compassionate appeals. Abortion is heinous, it’s horrible. I understand that. I know that. But since I have been more involved with pro-life things I have been saddened by the harsh words spoken about people who are pro-choice. Jesus went to the houses of tax collectors (matthew and Zaccheus) and the Pharisees. He showed love and He challenged them ( Pharisees) some will change, some won’t. Maybe compassion is just my thing. But I still do believe that we, as Americans push our rights to the limits and are surprised when the government steps in and tightens the belt.
And 50 feet is not a large distance. My fron lawn is about 50 feet deep and so is my neighbors, which means someone could stand on the curb and stage a protest at my house.
Laura – you keep saying we need to “love” the abortioneers, when I think you really mean “be nice to” them – “love” and “be nice to” are not the same thing – you are not doing any favors for someone when you ignore their wrong-doing and treat them nice despite their obstinate continuation of bad behavior – God forgives those who come to him with a contrite heart truly seeking a renewed life, not those who “beg” forgiveness with no intention of changing
if she doesn’t want protesters at her house, she just needs to leave PP – and as far as people protesting at my house, they can come any time they want – if protesters showing up at my house makes me feel bad, then I need to seriously examine what it is that I am doing – if I have a clean conscience, then I can stand tall and not really care about what they have to say
Laura says: “so does that mean if the same thing happened to you – a group of pro choicers protesting in front of your house – that you would walk out onto your driveway and shout “Bravo, you are exercising your right to free speech! Protest me! Yes!” as your children cried inside for fear of what the mob might do?”
It means that I believe the enumerated right to free speech is so important that I would tolerate distasteful uses of that right in order to protect it. The emotional appeal of the particular speech doesn’t matter. If my neighbor decides, out of the goodness of his heart, to take in convicted pedophiles, I want my right to protest that decision protected. If the animal kennel in my area starts mistreating their animals, I want my right to protest that behavior protected. If that means that pro-choicers are allowed to line up outside my home and protest, so be it. I agree that we all are responsible for our words and actions. That has nothing to do with whether this is a good ordinance or not.
I’m not saying you’re not pro-life, and I’m all for compassion as well, believe me. But the biggest thing I disagree with is getting the government involved. These people weren’t “pushing their rights to the limit.” I’m not even saying that what they did is the best thing ever; in truth, I’m not sure how I feel about having people protest at people’s homes. But we can’t just dismiss it out of hand, and we need to look at the manner in which it’s done.
Rights exist for a reason, and once we set a precedent for the government stepping in to stop unsavory speech or activity, the sooner all our other rights are going to go down the drain. This woman absolutely has a right to her property, so if the protesters in question were in any way on her private property against her will, then that’s trespassing and it’s wrong.
Your premise of “Abuse your rights, lose your rights” is, in this case, felonious. Because the only time someone should have their rights stripped is either a) when they have voluntarily agreed to do so (ie joining the military – you can’t just blab about top secret material, location of troops, etc.) or b) if you’ve committed a crime, some rights should be forfeited. Rights should not be stripped when other people’s feelings are hurt. Get the difference? The reason the city council is doing this is because one woman complained about feeling harassed or whatever. But if no laws were broken, then her feelings are not a sufficient basis for these pro-lifers’ rights to be stripped.
*heavy
Da gummint has decided that they must protect the “right” of a mother to kill her child.
So why should we expect our betters to respect our old-fashioned Freedoms of Speech and Peaceful Assembly and Religion? Those freedoms do not add to their convenience.
I welcome anyone who wants to “protest” my fight for unborn human rights. I welcome the chance to bring publicity to the cause and would bring them brownies and milk. Ya know why, Laura? BECAUSE I KNOW I’M NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. I wouldn’t be crying, like this woman. Crying because the wicked things she does for a living were being revealed to her social circles. Everyone who knows me knows what I do. Everyone who lives around me knows what I’m about. I definitely wouldn’t be crying.
Laura, I also draw the line at private residence. I don’t think we need to over-legislate everything, the bubble zones around my state are a royal pain, but I wouldn’t stand outside someone’s home. I am not so ‘sweetie-pie’ that I would take on the task of trying to convert a hardened abortionist, but fortunately Abby Johnson has been a huge help in that respect. “And then there were none” is quite a good idea. Overall, we need a multi-level approach to converting people to value life, but don’t expect to find video of me outside someone’s own house or apartment.
Frisby v. Schultz is the most relevant case, as far as i know; it upheld a ban on picketing at a specific targeted house.
Xalisae, I agree that abortion is a horror, but an issue in free speech laws is whether laws apply evenly regardless of content. If you believe picketing a residence on the abortion issue is OK, then it is OK for your neighbors to picket your home because you are not a vegetarian, or because you have a gas guzzler.
Be careful what you ask for.
TheLastDemocrat,
I reiterate: I welcome it.
In case there is some confusion, let me rephrase: Effin’ bring it on.
TheLastDemocrat
no one has to wish for the kind of lack of freedom you envision. The Dems aren’t for picketing outside homes because they picket the government in order that government can do their dirty work for them. In other words, the Dems use legislation to take away freedom, not to protect or promote it. For instance, Mr. Bloomberg is trying to legislate what New Yorkers can and cannot drink.
Democrats complaining about incursions on freedom is like a mother killing her preborn child in order to consider herself free – in short, it’s hypocritical.
The bottom line for me is the heart of each and every person. I firmly believe that our country is in the state it is in because the collective hearts of this country have or are turning from God. The hedge of protection we have had from Him since the founding of this country is being lifted. The only way this will change if if the hearts of this country turn back to Him. It is not through ‘being nice’ or just changing someone’s mind on an issue. If your form of changing hearts is through confrontation, like protests or conversation, do it wisely and with much prayer and Holy Spirit leading. Hearts are elast likely to be turned through shaming and condemnation. My way is through relationship and sticking closely to the truth of what scripture says. My wish for this country is not necessarily that Roe vs. wade be reversed because if hearts aren’t changed, that will be a moot point. Women will find a way to get one and others will be willing to provide them. My hope is that abortion becomes unthinkable to both those who would have sought them and those who would provide them. Pipe dream, maybe. Yes, I can be a bit of a dreamer, but I work with that in mind. I also fight for the law to be reversed as well through who I vote for. But ultimately all I have control over if those I come in contact with. Squashing freedom of speech is not my goal because I do want to know how people truly feel so I can best know what direction to take ina conversation. I write a blog that focuses on truth and information and have seen people changed their minds through it. Good start, but not enough in the end. Even if someone is pro-life but their hearts are still not turned to God, we’ve only come so far. I appreciate everyone’s views. I personally would probably be upset myself if someone protested my house, not because I felt I had done something wrong, but because I am a sensitive person. But I hope I could pull it together to engage them and have a good, productive conversation.
The crisis pregnancy center that I volunteer with chooses not to participate in political activities, but rather work through word of mouth and the place is hopping! They provide counseling, supplies and adoption services as well as the love of Christ and have seen many lives changed. I also have a friend who heads up a teen mops group in a local city high school. They have over 30 moms in their group from one school. A few of them have started going to church regularly with the leaders. That’s my kind of change.and by that I don’t mean the only way, just waht my heart is, personally.
Yes, there is time for more forceful and more compassionate appeals.
When would this be? Is there a magical number of dead we wait to hit or should we wait for another 40 years? Should we wait until it is illegal to protest about abortion altogether? Should we wait until our country legalizes the killing of others in addition to the unborn? Should we wait until there is a one-child per family limit in our country too? When?
When is the time, Laura?
My wish for this country is not necessarily that Roe vs. wade be reversed because if hearts aren’t changed, that will be a moot point.
I guess we should have kept slavery legal until all hearts changed. Oh, it would still be legal now because some people truly still believe in it.
Actions speak louder than words, Laura, but your words just gave you away.
In the words my friend so elequently used: Effin’ bring it on.
That I think that reversing Roe vs. wade wouldn’t completely fix the problem doesn’t reveal as much as you might think about me. I would love to see it reversed and to change the mindset of a generation, hopefully, but just like slavery I don’t think people would automatically change their minds and believe abortion was wrong or would stop teying to get them. Slavery os a perfect example. Slavery is illegal, thanks to many who fought against it long before the law was changed and women can vote now and have the same rights of men now because of many of those same women. But that didn’t completely change the mindset of people toward blacks and women. You just have to go to the south to understand that the attitude toward blacks has not changed much and see the great number of spousal abuse cases to see that some men still believe women should be seen and not heard. Believing blacks and women are inferior is not illegal, I realize, but slavery and wife beating is and can be prosecuted. Making abortion illegal would make it a prosecutable crime (of whom would be the question) and a wonderfully welcomed law, but the mindset needs to be changed as well. That’s my point. I see heart change toward it more attainable over time than the law being reversed. No, i don’t want a President in power that will make abortion more attainable or expand the parameters of it’s legality (after-birth abortion, etc), so I will NOT and have not voted for Obama. Maybe it makes me sounds like I would fight for abortion to be legal back on the 70s so back alley abortions wouldn’t happen, but I wouldn’t. I would have been where I am now, voting for people who think like I do, educating others on abortion and engaging in conversations with others about this issue. Read my blog if you get a chance http://www.peoplearepeoplenomatterhowsmall.blogspot.com.
This is not free speech… This is harassment and intimidation pure and simple. These protestors are attempting to intimidate this poor woman, her family, and her neighbors all in an effort t force her to give up working on a cause she believes in. It is not OK to go to someone’s house in a mob and scare their children. What’s next? Are you going to burn a cross in her yard?
All of that aside, how does this help your movement? This type of tactic does not change hearts and minds in a positive way but rather makes you ALL look like bullies.
What’s that old saying about flies and honey…
if she doesn’t want protesters at her house, she just needs to leave PP
I have to admit, this makes me uncomfortable. It kind of sounds like saying, “Well if those black people don’t want crosses burned in their yards, they shouldn’t move into white neighborhoods.”
I don’t really agree with Laura, though, about loving the pro-aborts, presumably because I’m not a person of faith. But the possibility exists that someone, somewhere, could simply decide that they don’t like something I’m doing (whether it’s wrong or illegal or not) and just decide to show up at my house and harass me about it. Which would not be acceptable.
Now, as LibertyBelle has said, she would welcome such a thing, and that’s her right and I respect that level of dedication. However, if I were her next door neighbor – no matter my thoughts on abortion – I’d be none too happy.
Do I loathe Tosh and all that she stands for? Yes. Would I ever breach the peace of her home? No.
YMMV, and no doubt, it does.
Personally I would love to see religion outlawed in this country and their tax exempt status revoked. In my opinion religion is one of the greatest evils in the world. I assure you that I am just as against religion as you are about abortion.
This is my own personal feelings on this subject, however I would never dream of protesting outside a church let alone following a priest to his home and protest in front of his family and neighbors. I would never dream of trying to intimidate a person of faith and their families like these protestors are doing.
Thanks to free speech I am aloud to share my feelings about religion with all of you and you are allowed to share your feelings on abortion with me but to insure all of our and the people around us safety let’s leave the bulling on the playground. Maybe not even there…
Thank you to all of you for the enlightening conversation today. We’re all in this fight together regardless of our perspective on the issue. As we all conquer the war against the unborn from our own unique angles, I hope we can accomplish the goal ofnending abortion in our country through a collective effort. We are all on the same side. Thanks again!
Well, Laura, being non-religious, I guess I lack context. You might as well have been speaking Greek in your September 18, 2012 at 4:57 pm post. To me, this is a complete analogue to the civil rights movements of the 1960’s. And, I think if someone would’ve poo-pooed their civil disobedience, they would’ve laughed in that person’s face. I mean, this situation is even more dire still than THAT, since it is literally life-and-death, not just wanting civil recognition but HUMAN RECOGNITION.
I assure you that I am just as against religion as you are about abortion.
I believe you Biggz. I also believe you oppose peaceful protests outside of abortionists’ homes because you know it is a positive for the prolife side.
You are welcome to protest religion and live births outside my home. The priests I know, would welcome you as well.
Small correction, Jill.
It’s Maitland, with a “t”, not “Maidland” with a “d”.
I live in these here parts. Just sayin’.
Laura – I believe this to be compassionate, using precisely the golden rule. If I were so confused as to think baby killing was an acceptable job, I would want people to try everything to change my heart. This is not the only strategy used to try to win her over, I can assure you.
Having religion in the broad sense means being comitted to a set of beliefs. So Biggz, you’re religious about abortion being a true right.
Maybe you are talking religion in a narrow sense, about beliefs of what happens after we die, or even more narrowly, about organized religion.
Interesting that you used a priest as your example, and not an imam or an orthodox rabbi… Maybe you should grow some cajones and take your message of outlawing (organized) religion to a mosque near where you live. Try it on a Friday.
I sez “If you believe picketing a residence on the abortion issue is OK, then it is OK for your neighbors to picket your home because you are not a vegetarian, or because you have a gas guzzler.
Be careful what you ask for.”
Xalisae sez: “TheLastDemocrat,
I reiterate: I welcome it.
In case there is some confusion, let me rephrase: Effin’ bring it on.”
Xalisae: do you have any young children in your home?
I find it really exasperating to hear prolifers worrying more about seeming uncouth than taking legal, peaceful means to help bring awareness to where abortion industry workers live. Then they get out the wagging finger and chastise fellow Christians just because they’re uncomfy with a particular type of legal, peaceful protest.
Seriously, it’s embarrassing.
I applaud peaceful protests and the actual change they bring about through local awareness and people leaving the industry. On behalf of confused or inexplicably timid fellow prolifers, I apologize to the people who are involved in these legal
and peaceful protests. For every naysayer, I’d wager there’s several prolifers who understand and support what you are doing. Keep it up!!!
Xalisae: do you have any young children in your home?
Yeah, I do. One of them is my daughter whose father wanted me to abort her, and recently found out about that fact. She’d be absolutely ecstatic to talk to pro-abortionists picketing us because we’re Pro-Life. She’s really been very eager to talk to them, and I think talking to her would do them all a world of good.
I’m not simply “uncomfy” with someone harassing me at my home. I would be straight-up furious that anyone felt they had had some sort of divine right (especially as I do not believe in invisible celestial friends) to disturb the the only peaceful sanctuary I have in this world.
Everybody gets a piece of me all day, all week and by the time I get home, I’m done. Maybe someone doesn’t like that I eat meat or wear leather shoes or drive an SUV or live in a 2-story house with more room than I really need or have a Darwin fish on my car or that shop at a store they’re boycotting because all the produce isn’t organic or I like cats more than dogs or they don’t like the way my desk is arranged or I drink regular milk instead of soy or that I think Twilight is the most idiotic vampire series ever unleashed on the earth or that I loathe Dancing with the Stars and American Idol – or or or or . . .
I don’t care if anyone is upset with me about any or all of these things. Just keep it away from my house and my kids. They don’t have anything to justify or explain to some stranger outside my house anymore than I do.
I thought about writing a book once. The title would be “How to Create an Atheist.” The text inside would be nothing more than the doctrine and dogma of the particular christian sect I was raised in.
Now I’m thinking of writing a book called “How to Create a Pro-Choicer.” It would include stories of people of all backgrounds and faiths (or no faith) doing the best they can to end the scourge of abortion. It would also include admonitions from more radical pro-lifers that if these people aren’t doing the same things they’re doing in exactly the same way, then those wimps just aren’t pro-life “enough.”
Does everyone really imagine that all movements to change things for the better have been monolithic? Do people really believe that it doesn’t take all kinds of different talents and approaches to spur minds and hearts – and yes, even rational minds - to accept that everyone deserves the dignity of life? Because I can guarantee you, from hard-won experience, that you’re eventually going to lose some of the very allies you would have probably needed the most.
Flame away. Just don’t show up at my house to do it.
Home protests are tacky and damaging to the credibility of the movement.
I’ll try not to point out that you did in your September 19, 2012 at 7:13 am post what you railed against in your September 19, 2012 at 7:44 am post. Take care, fellow non-believer.
Jess says:
I’m not simply “uncomfy” with someone harassing me at my home. I would be straight-up furious that anyone felt they had had some sort of divine right (especially as I do not believe in invisible celestial friends) to disturb the the only peaceful sanctuary I have in this world.
Um, everyone has this legal right. Where it isn’t prevented by ordinance that is.
Jess says: It would include stories of people of all backgrounds and faiths (or no faith) doing the best they can to end the scourge of abortion.
Oh, like Awareness Demonstrations at the homes of those in the abortion industry?
Color me skeptical that a pro-lifer (a person that cares about the lives of the unborn) would turn to pro-choice (a person that believes the unborn should die if that’s what the mother wants) because of the actions of others.
TheLastDemocrat says September 18, 2012 at 2:39 pm
…”an issue in free speech laws is whether laws apply evenly regardless of content. If you believe picketing a residence on the abortion issue is OK, then it is OK for your neighbors to picket your home because you are not a vegetarian, or because you have a gas guzzler.”
I luv to drive my bubbamobile and when I stops to eat i gets me some juicy steaks.
I might be slightly annoyed if some ‘stupid humans’ showed up at my house with graphic photos from a slaughter house or a junk yard full of hollow hulks of what used to be cars.
But I would not be ashamed or humiliated and I would not trample on the constitution to prevent a re-occurrence.
[The notion of the ‘last democRAT’ warms the cockles of my heart. Just thinking about it almost brings tears to my eyes…I am close to being verklept.]
Oh my goodness, biggotz is backzzzz.
So biggotzzz how do you propose to outlaw religion without impinging upon freedom of speech and freedom of assembly?
If ever there was a cake you could not eat and keep it too outlawing religion is eat.
I bet you have to have ’R’ and ‘L” written on your socks and your feet to remember what goes where. You probably still get it wrong. This would help to exlain why you are always going in a circle.
Not wanting to protest at homes does not make you less pro-life …
Just like wanting to protest at homes does not make you less compassionate …
You may, however, want to reflect on your commitment to life if you are comparing dismembering tiny humans to having unpopular views about reality TV, to inefficient desk organization, or not having a organic/vegetarian meal plan.
TheLastDemocrat says September 18, 2012 at 2:39 pm
…”an issue in free speech laws is whether laws apply evenly regardless of content. If you believe picketing a residence on the abortion issue is OK, then it is OK for your neighbors to picket your home because you are not a vegetarian, or because you have a gas guzzler.”
=======================================================
tld,
Setting aside the lack of perspective in equating dismembering prenatal children with enjoying a good steak and driving a truck with operating a whore house, the idea of so casually surrendering rights that were purchased and protected with someone elses blood life and possessions, because the speech which was exercised made you uncomortable, demonstrates a lack of understanding.
I cannot imagine any emotionally healthy person ever falling prey to attempts to shame her/him by informing her/his neighbors that he/she operates a slaughter house or runs a junkyard even if there were before/after photos of the cattle and/or the cars.
Study: Air Pollution From Grilled Burgers Worse Than Bubbamobiles
Pakistani dies from inhaling fumes while burning American flag
[I bet the flag was manufafactured in China. That would explain the toxic fumes.]
Color me skeptical that a pro-lifer (a person that cares about the lives of the unborn) would turn to pro-choice (a person that believes the unborn should die if that’s what the mother wants) because of the actions of others.
Well, you’ve rather made my point. I’m not pro-life “enough” for you. So you’re skeptical; so be it. And I didn’t say that that kind turn of heart WOULD happen very often; I pointed out that it COULD happen — for any number of reasons.
You may, however, want to reflect on your commitment to life if you are comparing dismembering tiny humans to having unpopular views about reality TV, to inefficient desk organization, or not having a organic/vegetarian meal plan.
I don’t need to reflect on my commitment to life at all. It’s quite intact and very passionate.
I’ll try not to point out that you did in your September 19, 2012 at 7:13 am post what you railed against in your September 19, 2012 at 7:44 am post. Take care, fellow non-believer.
Oh, I get it, xalisae. I’ll try not to point out that any perceived inconsistencies in my writing (and there are bound to be, no doubt) apparently make me suspect as someone who values the life of the unborn. Perception is everything, isn’t it?
“I don’t need to reflect on my commitment to life at all. It’s quite intact and very passionate.”
Glad to hear it, Jess. I wish your efforts well!
Jess says “if she doesn’t want protesters at her house, she just needs to leave PP
I have to admit, this makes me uncomfortable. It kind of sounds like saying, “Well if those black people don’t want crosses burned in their yards, they shouldn’t move into white neighborhoods.””
that is a ridiculous comparison – abortioneers choose their actions – blacks do not choose their race – abortions are inherently evil – your race, no matter what it is, obviously is not evil in any way shape or form – if she chooses to kill babies, then she gets to pay the consequences of her choice, and they are not always pretty – if she thinks those protesters are bad, wait ’til she faces the real judgment
and Jess, I don’t recall anyone saying you were not pro-life enough – you extol the virtues of a varied and robust approach to the issue, but you criticize those who have a different approach than you do – that is what people are getting on you about – for you, going to homes is not a good idea – fine – for others it is – so let them do what they believe they are led to do just as you expect them to let you do what you feel is the right thing – I do not like graphic signs, have not used them and am not sure I ever would – but I absolutely believe that the people doing so are doing what they truly believe is the right thing, and I believe they have every right to do so – I also believe that different people respond to different approaches – some people respond to nice – others don’t and need “in your face” to wake up – and has been pointed out, we are all on the same page, so let’s get behind each other and stand up for the rights that we all have to attack the baby-killers in whatever legal and non-violent fashion we believe is best
Jess says:
Well, you’ve rather made my point. I’m not pro-life “enough” for you.
Where on earth would you get that idea?
that is a ridiculous comparison
No, it isn’t.
if she thinks those protesters are bad, wait ’til she faces the real judgment
Not everyone believes in a so-called “real judgment.” I don’t. She’s going to do what she’s going to do, and I, personally, don’t have much hope that she will ever be anything different than what she is. Like I’ve said before, if I were her neighbor, I’d be pretty angry about her crap ending up at my front door. But what am I supposed to do? Move? Can’t afford to do that. Start up a feud with her myself? Organize a neighborhood lynch mob to drive her out of her home so that WE can have some peace from strangers roaming around the neighborhood? Look, all I’m trying to say is that protesting at someone’s residence is just as likely to turn all the other neighbors against the cause as it is to do anything else. You could end up with a backlash that you didn’t want or expect. And while you might quite rightly say, “bring it,” how is that going to get anyone on our side when all they want is you the heck out of their neighborhood?
So, here’s the deal: Yeah, I said I’m all about different approaches. So go for it; protest at people’s homes. As much as I don’t agree with it, it is absolutely your right to fight as you see fit. Just don’t be surprised when it doesn’t work and makes the protestee that much more entrenched in the rightness of their position. Which is exactly the opposite of what you wanted in the first place.
you extol the virtues of a varied and robust approach to the issue, but you criticize those who have a different approach than you do
And let’s not forget that Laura was ROUNDLY criticized for opining that she didn’t think residential protesting was particularly helpful. Pot, kettle, black and all that.
“… we need to have respect for others”.
” … show some mercy and love.”
Jess, I believe Laura was criticized for considering some fellow pro-lifers to be without respect, mercy, and love. I don’t mind people disagreeing about effectiveness, but claiming the absence of those qualities is taken kind of personally.
Where on earth would you get that idea?
I wonder.
I believe Laura was criticized for considering some fellow pro-lifers to be without respect, mercy, and love.
She’s right. Some of our fellow pro-lifers do lack these attributes. Not on this board, necessarily, but I’ve come across some hostile, hateful pro-lifers. If you haven’t come across any of them, well, you’ve been fortunate.
Jess says:
I wonder.
So do I, because I didn’t say a word about your pro-life-ness. Or anyone’s for that matter. I’ve merely expressed my disagreement with this ordinance which curtails free speech. And I’ve expressed my doubt that someone that cares about the innocent unborn will stop caring based on some born person’s actions. So how do you get that I’m judging your pro-life-ness based on that?
She’s going to do what she’s going to do, and I, personally, don’t have much hope that she will ever be anything different than what she is.
Maybe it would do you well to not give up hope of others.
I think we can learn from Laura’s blog. It is something like peoplearepeoplenomatterhowsmall@blogspot.com . She has it listed above. Wow, Laura, I am impressed with your love for the unborn, your logic, your appeal to the general public on the issues of life, and your general compassion. You are an amazing person. Please do not attack Laura here. She is right in that a pro-abortion person’s heart will be changed by love, not by attacks. We have the testimony of Norma McCorvey and Abby Johnson to strengthen that claim. Both were won by love and prayer, not by angry words. While abortion can and does make us angry, let’s direct that anger in a useful, productive way with prayer vigils at Planned Parenthood. Let’s take part in 40 Days for Life, or if you wish to use graphic signs, the Anti-Choice Project – or you can do both. Channel that anger into praying every day, sacrificing, and fasting for the abortionists, and that will be more powerful than any protest, I guarantee you. Fasting is the most powerful form of prayer, and with God ANYTHING is possible. Yes, we need to do many things in the pro-life movement, and one of those is ACTION – and yet there are many wonderful, loving ways in which we can take action. One of those ways would be to get a “Save the Storks” ultrasound van in your community – by fundraising and donating toward the cause. Do the things that convict people’s hearts: offer them love and prayer, and sacrifice for them, and they will know by our actions that while we pro-lifers are soldiers, we are soldiers of truth, love, and charity. I am not saying that the action of the government was prudent; we have too many crazy laws as it is. However, I don’t feel that the BEST way to convert an abortion-minded person is to picket at a personal residence. If you want to peacefully PRAY there, then fine, but let’s show LOVE to our enemies in all things, even when they hurt us, and even when they hurt others.
Protesting outside someone’s house is not “raising awareness” it is picking a fight. It is using intimidation to try to force someone else to your way of thinking by scaring their children and that is wrong no matter how you want to justify it. After reading all the comments on this thread it is obvious that you are an “Ends justify the means” crowd.
If that is the type of tactic you want to use why not just murder doctors and nurses in cold blood? or maybe our president, if the “ends justify the means”… Where does it end?
Are you all prepared to protect fetuses at the expense of other people lives? You guys need to think this argument all the way though…
BTW I used the term “priest” because I am talking to a group of mostly Christians but believe me I view ALL religions in the same regard. Believers are believers as far as I am concerned. Science will win in the end…
Julie – I agree with everything you said about anger versus love, but your basic premise that these protests are primarily angry is really what seems to be the point up for debate, at least for some of us … ok, for me – that’s who I can fairly speak for. =). God’s blessings to you all!
Channel that anger into praying every day, sacrificing, and fasting for the abortionists, and that will be more powerful than any protest, I guarantee you.
Right. Cuz that works. For everyone.
It is using intimidation to try to force someone else to your way of thinking by scaring their children and that is wrong no matter how you want to justify it.
But sucking children from their mother’s womb is not intimidating and forceful behavior? Killing a helpless human being is wrong no matter how you or Ms. Tosh justify it.
You should both be crying tears of shame and repentance.
biggz says: If that is the type of tactic you want to use why not just murder doctors and nurses in cold blood? or maybe our president, if the “ends justify the means”… Where does it end? Are you all prepared to protect fetuses at the expense of other people lives? You guys need to think this argument all the way though…
Um, sure. Because there’s no difference at all between peacefully protesting outside someone’s home and murdering them. Yup, same exact thing. Pfft. Looks like you’re the one that needs to think your false “argument all the way through”.
Hey mods, why is my comment in moderation? It has no links.
The video makes me embarrassed to be pro-life. I really hope these tactics aren’t copied this side of the Atlantic Ocean.
The irony – Orlando is supposed to be the “happiest place on earth” (DisneyWorld, etc….). How could ANYONE do abortions there (or anywhere for that matter)? It’s sickening to think that some babies are losing their lives while other children are having the time of their lives. Thanks a lot, pro-aborts. What a difference it might make if we said a prayer for the unborn while standing in line at the rides. So, how did the vote go? Was the ordinance ratified?
Praying for the conversion of hearts and minds of pro-aborts in the U.S. and around the world. Catholics and those so inclined, please make a visit to the Blessed Sacrament at your nearest adoration chapel and pray for our country, especially as the elections draw near.