Interview: “2016” filmmaker ties Obama’s abortion support to his anti-colonialist beliefs
My husband and I saw the film 2016: Obama’s America last night.
2016 is based on Dinesh D’Souza’s 2010 best-selling book, The Roots of Obama’s Rage. The movie was advertised on this site for several weeks.
Both the book and movie attempt to make sense of Obama’s otherwise inexplicable decisions as president by tying them to his anti-colonialist roots and subsequent belief system. Both of Obama’s parents were anti-colonialists, as was his adolescent mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, and several of his professors and adult peers, particularly Bill Ayers and Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
2016 is a box office hit. As of this weekend 2016 had grossed $18.2 million, making it the highest grossing conservative documentary of all time. 2016 still has a ways to go to compete with its liberal competitor, Fahrenheit 9/11, which grossed $119.2 million.
We found 2016 quite compelling. If nothing else, Obama’s childhood and adult ideological influences would shock American sensibilities.
But I left the movie with a question: How does Obama’s anti-colonial beliefs play into his radical pro-abortion beliefs?
Through pro-life friend Jason Jones, president of Movie to Movement, I got in touch with Dr. D’Souza, pictured right, who was kind enough to answer my question by email today:
Jill: Obama rejects traditional Christianity. He subscribes to what may be termed Third World liberation theology.
This radical brand of Christianity considers Christ to be a kind of guerrilla revolutionary, fighting against the evil capitalists and the ruling class.
Traditional Christian tenets such as the dignity of life don’t seem to feature prominently in Obama’s view. Even partial birth abortion doesn’t revolt him in the way it revolts most people–even Democrats.
Hope this is helpful.
It was. Liberation Theology is a vast topic, but in brief, from Wikipedia:
Liberation theology is a political movement in Christian theology which interprets the teachings of Jesus Christ in terms of a liberation from unjust economic, political, or social conditions. It has been described by proponents as “an interpretation of Christian faith through the poor’s suffering, their struggle and hope, and a critique of society and the Catholic faith and Christianity through the eyes of the poor”, and by detractors as Christianized Marxism.
Black Liberation Theology, which Wright espouses, is another vast topic, but in brief, according to Wikipedia:
Black liberation theology is a theological perspective found in some Christian churches and the Nation of Islam in the United States which contextualizes liberation theology in an attempt to help African-Americans overcome oppression.
Modern American origins of contemporary black liberation theology can be traced to July 31, 1966, when an ad hoc group of 51 black pastors, calling themselves the National Committee of Negro Churchmen, bought a full page ad in the New York Times to publish their “Black Power Statement,” which proposed a more aggressive approach to combating racism using the Bible for inspiration.
In the minds of many African-Americans, Christianity was long associated with slavery and segregation….
Black theology deals primarily with the African-American community, to make Christianity real for blacks. It explains Christianity as a matter of liberation here and now, rather than in an afterlife….
According to Black religion expert Jonathan Walton: “James Cone believed that the New Testament revealed Jesus as one who identified with those suffering under oppression, the socially marginalized and the cultural outcasts….”
Black liberation theology contends that dominant cultures have corrupted Christianity, and the result is a mainstream faith-based empire that serves its own interests, not God’s….
Liberation from a false god who privileges whites, and the realization of an alternative and true God who desires the empowerment of the oppressed through self-definition, self-affirmation, and self-determination is the core of black liberation theology.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around all this and would welcome your insights.
It would appear, if Dr. D’Souza’s theory on Obama’s ideological foundation is accurate, that Obama views abortion as a vehicle to overcome black poverty and inequality, a vehicle previously only safely available to rich white women when illegal. Obama would view Planned Parenthood as a driver.
This belief would dovetail with beliefs expressed at the May briefing co-sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus and Congressional Pro-Choice Caucus, wherein black abortion proponents expressed their highest value as the “right” to choose – freedom, autonomy, independence.
That white Evangelicals and Catholics reject abortion based on their interpretation of the Bible means nothing to Obama, and, in fact, may repel him from that belief due to his own prejudices against traditional Christianity and whites.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
From the Moviefone.com plot summary:
“Emotionally engaging, ‘2016: Obama’s America’ will make you cheer and leave you confounded as you discover the mysteries and answers to your greatest aspirations and worst fears.”
I haven’t seen this movie, but I want to. To those who have, did it “make you cheer”? I can’t imagine cheering after viewing this film.
The audience applauded at the end of the film, but it was because the film was good, not because people were exhilerated.
I left with a sense of relief, with more of an understanding of what makes Obama tick. He’s less a scary, confusing figure to me now, although that doesn’t make him any less dangerous.
As for Obama’s anti-colonialist/Liberation Theology beliefs and his radical support of abortion – I also get that sense of relief one gets when connecting dots. It’s all beginning to make sense now.
Hi Peg,
I saw it and did not cheer. It did explain alot about how he developed his ideology.
This makes no sense to me. I’m not an expert on Christianity or its liberation-centered interpretations, but it would seem to me that abortion would be MORE problematic for people who’ve suffered under colonial oppression, not less! After all, population control has historically been a major threat to the poor, especially poor people of color.
Of course, Obama himself is highly privileged, and probably just picks and chooses from whatever ideologies will bring him votes.
[Disclaimer: haven’t seen the movie.]
Well my eldest daughter and I went to see the movie …LOVED THE MOVIE …you see I didn’t vote OBAMA in 08…FIRST ..I DIDN’T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HIM…to me the media just didn’t say a whole lot about him … I know many people voted for him because he was saying all “the right things” that they wanted to here…
The movie help to put most of the pieces together ..I personally believe there is more to obama’s rage and more to his plan for the U.S.,I believe this just the tip of the iceberg. Because most people just are blinded by his so call caring words in his speeches …they are not looking the key words that he has repeated time and time again. Many people at least here in California voted for him because of all the Hollywood Celebs think and share very strongly about their support for obama. I truly believe that Obama wants to cut ties with Israel our closest friend…because he favors the Arab Nations…Islam…etc…
Obama reminds me of JIM JONES..if anyone remembers him all the people that follow him. There so many people who thought the world about him…many of their families question his ideologies …because they were not CHRISTIAN at all…and too did alot of community organizing for the poor and through that… some of the so call wealthy came to join his church…but they had to give up there money to spread the wealth…
I saw the movie yesterday. No cheering. No clapping. People left very silent and sober.
VERY sober.
From another angle, I think abortion is most appealing to Barack because of the eugenicist strain in progressivism: too many unfit people on this planet, not enough of the “good” types, we need to lower our reproduction rates before it’s too late, global warming, etc.
And if enough whites abort themselves, then hey! That means more to go around for the oppressed.
All warped of course, but then again, so is that whole mindset.
And if you consider how Obama likes to lecture us about being our brother’s keeper, but his dear brother George is living in a hut in Kenya, then it all just widens the lens a bit.
Even if you don’t suscribe to Dinesh’s point of view, I recommend watching it anyway, if for the thought-provoking value.
Alot of things that make you go “Hmmmmmm.”
What I fear is Obama’s personality type and the danger he poses to this country. Even Dick Morris has expressed the same concern, especially during the lame duck period should Obama lose. Believe me folks, he will not gracefully accept defeat. This country will have a price to pay.
I don’t care so much about his views or how he got them as I do the fact that people could be so entranced by a virtual unknown for reasons even they can’t explain. That people of faith were so ready to forsake their convictions to sit at the Devil’s table. That even reporters had to finally ask themselves: “what do we know about him”? Hey morons, wasn’t that YOUR job from day 1?? Maybe instead of getting zings up your legs and fixating on the crease in Obama’s pants, you should have been doing your jobs.
It makes me think of the lovestruck man/woman taken in by the sociopathic con artist who loses everything and wonders how they could have fallen in love so blindly and never asked any questions.
Yes his ideology is dangerous, but you need a certain personality type that has charisma and a need for power, as well as a complete lack of empathy. Kind of sounds like dictators. That’s who we got. You also need a population willing to put him in power. We had that too. Look at Germans of the 1930s entranced by an Austrian street thug and then look at ourselves. Little difference.
Hopefully enough Americans will come out of their messianic trance by November.
I’ve been planning to see the movie very soon. Even many conservatives, such as Michael Medved, have rejected D’Souza’s theory out of hand. But I think there’s a lot of merit to it.
The Left bristles at any reference to Obama being un-American, but it’s clear to me that his Americanism is at arm’s length at best. Greg Gutfeld jokes that Hawaii is a foreign country with foreign currency. In the sixties and early seventies it really was practically a colonial outpost.
Perhaps that’s why the indoctrination from his mother and Davis, and his dreams for and from his absentee father sat so well in him. Between Hawaii (where he was as isolated as any “despised” blue blood in the most expensive boarding school) and Indonesia he did not grow up as a typical American.
No Fourth of July parades, no Little League, no Boy Scouts. Even when he arrived in Chicago his American assimilation seems to have been paper-thin. As a new President he didn’t know enough to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem! You’d think he was some foreign dignitry. His baseball interest seems to be as politically fake as Hillary Clinton’s, since he didn’t even know the name of the ball park of his “favorite team” for 20 years. The word “Corps” appears to be foreign to him.
As for abortion, I think it’s just the knee-jerk postion of his political comrades. I don’t believe he’s given the topic much thought. Although his zealousness over the Born Alive issue is frigtening.
It is about ‘law’ with no basis except satisfying the urge of the moment.
It is anarchy, moral and ethical chaos.
it is anti-law and anti-CHRIST/antichrist.
b o is a city without walls. he has no boundaries. no limits on his considerations.
he has no resistance to the influences which surround and permeate his being.
he has cast off restraint. he is a creature of lawlessness.
only ‘fear’ motivates/manipulates/controls him. On a related note. File under dining with the devil [not to be confused with ‘HE has prepared a banquet for me in the presence of my enemy’:
“Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, is to give the closing prayer at the Democrats’ convention, according to a statement from the archdiocese this morning.”
How cozy.
These ‘dots’ are running together like ink on a sodden page.
Hi Ken,
How cozy indeed. As I said, religious people, even their leaders, have been willing to forego their convictions to sit at the Devil’s table, even when it has resulted in betrayal.
Dolan is a disgrace.
Archbishop Dolan would have been better served if he had not participated in any of the conventions. The muck seems to get stickier the farther he steps.
And I say this with all due respect.
“As a new President he didn’t know enough to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem!”
I don’t do that. In fact, it’s pretty rare to see.
I haven’t seen the movie so I can’t comment on it or its thesis. It is definitely on my list (which is very short) of movies to see though.
However, I would like to comment on the question of where President Obama’s support of abortion comes from. I think the President’s support for abortion is traditional. I think he really thinks he is helping women.
I would also agree with the assertion that the President sees women as an oppressed group much like he sees minorities. However, seeing women as a minority doesn’t fully explain why he views abortion as a right and why he doesn’t value the rights of the preborn very highly. To date I have yet to figure out why President Obama, or anyone for that matter, refuses to value the life of preborn while valuing abortion as a right. I suspect the President’s reason is simply due to a lack of faith and a lack of respect for God’s handiwork. In short, I think Presdient Obama, like all abortion supporters, lacks humility.
Tyler, what’s the problem with refusing to value the life of the preborn?
Serious question.
Hal
I don’t do that. In fact, it’s pretty rare to see.
Well, truth be told, neither do I put my hand over my heart. Mostly because I haven’t been to a ballgame in quite a while. We did it in high school for the Pledge.
But it’s expected of political leaders at ceremonies. I know he was mostly a part-time state senator, but even he should know holding his hands in front of his crotch might be alright for an invocation, but not the National Anthem! It’s just not done.
“I don’t do that. In fact, it’s pretty rare to see”
Yeah, a lot of people are ignorant of basic flag etiquette. The POTUS shouldn’t be among those who have no clue how to properly treat the American flag.
“ Serious question. ”
No it’s not. Anyone who has spent 30 minutes on this blog knows the answer.
Rasqual,
There is no swearing and no name calling allowed.
Again I duplicate a pet peeve. All right, already!
John, I just googled it.. Turns out it is a thing indeed. stupid though, and I’ll never do it
“To date I have yet to figure out why President Obama, or anyone for that matter, refuses to value the life of preborn while valuing abortion as a right. I suspect the President’s reason is simply due to a lack of faith and a lack of respect for God’s handiwork. In short, I think Presdient Obama, like all abortion supporters, lacks humility.”
Agreed, tyler. Many pro-aborts think God / nature / bad luck made women unfairly. And technology (I use that term very loosely when talking about abortion) is their way of controlling what only God is suppose to control, as you well know. That is what pains me about Christians who claim abortion is acceptable … As if disregarding the preborn person’s LIFE isn’t enough, the grounds they use to do so absolutely blasphemes God.
Former Communist David Horowitz provides some great information about these ideologies on his website, “Discover the Networks.”
Liberation Theology: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=299
Black Liberation Theology: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=796
Obama’s pastor for 20 years, Jeremiah Wright, was a huge proponent of Black Liberation Theology: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2307
Maybe Dinesh D’Souza’s next film ought to do with the Obama cult. Delegates at the DNC will be able to get a calandar that describes Obama as the “Heaven sent” embodiment of John 3:16.
I kid you not.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/as-seen-at-the-dem-convention-the-calendar-that-uses-john-316-in-reference-to-obama/
Hmm. Let me try again.
Hal: Tyler, what’s the problem with refusing to value the life of the preborn? Serious question.
It makes you an ######. Serious answer.
So, you got nothing?
Pregnancy and childbirth are good experiences for most, but not all, of us women. I’m an anti-abortion person who wishes technology would get on with finding a solution for women having to carry a baby for 9 months. I hated it and had health problems that made it a pretty miserable experience. Wouldn’t trade my daughter for anything, but made extra-sure I wouldn’t get pregnant again (and that was the only way I could get relaxed enough to enjoy sex with my husband after).
I’m glad most women don’t have the same problems I did, but it would be nice if more pro-lifers acknowledged that pregnancy is not always a joyful skip through the park. I’m guessing that might make more pro-choicers (or on-the-fence women) think that we’re sincere about being pro-woman.
Hal:
Even if you do not understand why you should value the life of an unborn you ought to anyway out of selfishness. Don’t you understand that once the value of innocent life is ignored for one it is ignored for all? Serious question.
Jerry, no. I don’t. It doesn’t seem to work that way.
Hal:
It does work that way. There are many people who fail to learn from their mistakes and from history. In both instances they are usually condemned to repeat the same errors.
Martin Niemoller, an anti-Nazi theologian saw it clearly: “In Germany they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
Jerry, I actually had that quote framed and hung in my college dorm. Still, respectfully, I don’t agree with your point.
Hal, what would be the problem with refusing to value your life? Serious question.
Mary:
Your 3:12 piece nailed it. I would like to suggest the reverse side of the coin where people were taken in by the messianic hype is that many of us were so busy with our lives that we did not see how pathetic the democrat leadership had become. Once they got complete control we really saw their true colors.
We knew the democrats were/are completely wrong on abortion but who could have known they were also socialists as well? If the dems were as the dems of old (i.e. Americans) Obama never could have wreaked havoc as he has done. So I blame the dem leadership a tad more than I blame Obama and the misguided dreamers who voted him in. Having said that there is still the question of how could so many have been taken in. It is very troubling.
Navi, people who know and love me might miss me.
Hal:
Paraphrased: “Experience is a dear teacher, but some will learn by none other. ”
Here is the deal. On matters of life and death it does no good to learn the hard way…by then it is too late.
Roxy, I don’t know very many pro-lifers who portray pregnancy as a walk in the park. On the contrary, we regularly acknowledge that it can be a frightening, lonely and painful experience. But that doesn’t mean the human life inside is disposable.
I hate being pregnant. It’s miserable for me. But I love my kids and I know they’re worth the sacrifice. My husband and I recently found out we’re expecting our fourth. It wasn’t planned, and it’s not easy, but this child has the same rights and value as any of our others who are already born. This little life is not mine to destroy just because I’m uncomfortable.
Navi, people who know and love me might miss me.
Is that really the only reason? If you were the only person in the entire world who knew or cared about your existence, your life wouldn’t be valuable anymore?
Hey Rachel, I see tons of people say, “Hey, it’s only 9 months!” That always makes me mad because of my own history.
I agree that one should suck it up, if possible, and continue with the pregnancy rather than killing a human, and you might have missed the part where I said I was anti-abortion. I am, however, very much in favour of birth control, which puts me at odds with many other people here.
In any case, sincere congratulations on your pregnancy!
“I’m an anti-abortion person who wishes technology would get on with finding a solution for women having to carry a baby for 9 months … I’m glad most women don’t have the same problems I did, but it would be nice if more pro-lifers acknowledged that pregnancy is not always a joyful skip through the park. I’m guessing that might make more pro-choicers (or on-the-fence women) think that we’re sincere about being pro-woman.”
Hi, Roxy – I can acknowledge that – it’s not easy. I think most just think it’s well worth it, like you. I am sorry that you had a rough time of your pregnancy and glad that you treasure your daughter. I think the “solution” you speak of for “women having to carry a baby for 9 months” is adopting. I hope I, and my children, don’t see a day where babies reside anywhere else for their first 9 months. My first baby was born a bit early and seeing her just monitored in the NICU was heartbreaking. And then there were those teeeeeny babies, all hooked up in a sterile plastic container … Thank God for those life-savers, but to actually want that for any baby …
“Navi,people who know and love me might miss me.”
:( That can’t be the only reason it isn’t okay to kill you. What about people who don’t really have family or friends? What about small children with abusive parents who don’t care about them, wouldnt miss them if they were gone? You have to have other reasons why it isn’t cool to take someone’s life, independent of how much other people care about them. I don’t think human life should be measured like that.
I’m so glad I didn’t have to go through that, and I really feel for you, LifeJoy. I hope your daughter is okay now!
I’m thinking of future technologies we don’t have yet (just finished reading Jaqueline Susann’s Yargo, which was weird but interesting). I wouldn’t wish NICU on anyone, parent or child, though I’m glad it exists when needed.
Hey, dialysis is unnatural, as are many other life-saving procedures. I know a lot of people are against it, but I’d love to see procedures that rescue babies from ectopic pregnancies or allow doctors to implant from one woman to another — basically making abortion unnecessary.
Roxy – Thank you for your concern. It was a very temporary precautionary measure in her case since she was born at 35 weeks. She was found to be perfectly healthy. (We think she just wanted to come out for Christmas – SURPRISE!). But it was emotional at that time and for the long-term, extremely eye-opening.
Wouldn’t that be amazing if they could save babies from ectopic pregnancies or from women who wanted to have an abortion? I suppose I’d take the NICU for those babies! I wonder if there’d still be a whole autonomy debate for women who don’t want to bear OR share their child?
Hal says: ….people who know and love me might miss me.
Well there ya have it folks. Our lives are only as valuable as the sentiment we elicit in others.
“Our lives are only as valuable as the sentiment we elicit in others.”
i am pretty sure that is not what HAL intended to communicate, but i do appreciate your sentiment, even if HAL does not.
Hal, surely your 12:14 reason isn’t the best reason you can offer.
By that standard, a lot of people might as well just kill themselves right now. Lonely, suicidal types would be RIGHT, by that standard, in ending it all.
But the message of pro-life is no, you’re NOT right to end it, because you have value. Your value does not come from the judgment of others. You don’t search for value, for reasons to keep living. You HAVE value, and that makes you responsible for caring for yourself.
Or the unborn.
Hal, your life has worth and dignity outside of anyone recognizing that you exist OR that you have worth and dignity. You always had this, from the moment that you were here on earth, and no one can take it away from you.
It’s sort of pathetic that you don’t get this.
Hal there are multiple problems with refusing to value the preborn. Most importantly, it denies a human being life. If this was not the case, there were be no debate about abortion, and everyone would be pro-choice.
Not valuing human life in all of its stages raises the question at which point do we begin to value human life. Mere pondering of this question exposes a myriad of problems that extend far beyond life issues. It begs the following questions: how and why do we value anything and how do we value anything when there are not absolute notions of good, such as recognizing all human life is good? Abortion is the opposite of love.
In short, not valuing the preborn does not only lead to, but is also indicative of, moral blindness. Indeed, most pro-choice are morally blind already, and they can not see the holocaust they are participating in and encouraging much like the German citizens during the time of Hitler’s holocaust.
To repeat the first point, the most obvious reason is that if abortion was always done, and no one was ever born, there would be no people to know or to love or to miss. In some ways, it is a math problem.
Tyler, I appreciate your thoughtful response. You state that not valuing the preborn is indicative of moral blindness. But, can’t one be moral in all other aspects without being “moral” in terms of the preborn? Everyone seems to be saying, you must value the lives of the preborn or you won’t value the lives of the born. I’m not sure that’s true. And, more importantly, even it it was, that seems like the worst reason to value the “lives” of those not yet born. Surely you’re saying more than that. It seems to come down to “all human life has value.” I’m merely asking why. Where do you get that? If it’s just a religious thing, we can agree to disagree. What am I missing?
“It seems to come down to “all human life has value.” Where do you get that? What am I missing?
If any human life has value, why doesn’t all human life have value? What makes a human life valuable to you, Hal? If you love and value someone once they’re born, how can you not love and value them before they were born? They are the same human now as then, just more developed.
What is “value?” What makes you think any human life has “value?” If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy, how do we know whether that decision and her wishes have more “value” than the “value” of the preborn baby?
Hal, my opinion that human life has value is indeed religiously based. But before you decide to dismiss the rest of my response let me try to explain a little bit of what it means to me to be religious.
To me, being religious means, in part, seeking for answers for deeper questions to life such as: 1) why are we here and 2) what is the meaning of life. Many people and cultures around the world have pondered these questions and have given answers to them. In Western culture Christianity has largely provided the answers to these questions and from my limited perspective Christianity has provided the definitive answers to these questions.
In short, the Christian answer to these questions are: 1) We are loved (we don’t need to seek because we are sought after), and 2) to love the source of that love (aka God) and our neighbor. If these answers are true and I think they are (because these statements can be proven to be true) then we have an obligation to all human life, because that is part of what gives life meaning. To destroy human life, destroys part of the meaning of why humans exist.
This religious view can be said to be spiritual, and it is. But it is fully embraced by the Catholic Church so my spirituality and my religion are not separate. It is also can be said to expose an existential view of life and the human condition. This view of religion and understanding of the world means that people are not merely tools for other human beings. It means that human life and the universe did not sprang out of nothing. To me, either human life/existence has meaning or it has no meaning. Either there was a Creator or there was no Creating. Either everlasting life, outside the universe and time, created and gave birth to the universe or there is no everlasting life. I believe it is hard to prove that Nothing created this universe rather than Something. I also believe it is more rational to believe that Something created the universe. There is no third option; fence sitting entails embracing Nothing. Something, an orgin, commits an individual, it implies values. If there is a source, an orgin, then creation has to be an act of supreme love, an overabundance of good will.
Abortion can only be supported if the person believes there is no Creator, and that there is not Something. You can’t be a true believer and support abortion as it is profoundly and inherently contradictory. However, it is possible for a nonbeliever to personally respect and value life.
It is our choice, but we are gently nudged to choose a certain narrow path.
Hal, perhaps you can tell me why you don’t value the preborn human being?
Do you value your own life, Hal?
To my fellow Christian and Catholic brothers and sisters I apologize for my above post being mangled and not conforming to orthodox Catholic theolology. Given the limited time, and my personal inabilities, it was the best translation I could provide at the moment. Please feel free to correct the many errors. And once again I apologize for them.
Sadly, I expect there would. And I really don’t get that. While I don’t condone abortion, I can at least understand a woman not wanting to be pregnant. The other just baffles me, like when I think about women having really late-term abortions and killing a child who might be viable and able to be adopted by someone else.
Glad to hear about your daughter’s good health, and I hope she doesn’t get ripped off on her bday gifts so close to Christmas! :)
I have thought of one other possible reason that President Obama supports abortion – he could have a diabolical fetish to see women turn themselves into killers. He may relish knowing that others are committing sins. It may perversely make him feel more comfortable with the sins that he has already committed. I truly hope this is not his reason.
Similarily, I hope women don’t get abortions simply because it is easier to do wrong than it is to do good.
“I have thought of one other possible reason that President Obama supports abortion – he could have a diabolical fetish to see women turn themselves into killers”
That doesn’t ring true. I think the answer is simpler than that. He thinks that women and their doctors can be trusted with this decision more than the government can be.
Hal, I agree. President Obama probably doesn’t have a conscious fetish to see women turn themselves into killers. The statement was really in response to an extreme pro-choice poster who accuses pro-lifers of having a fetus fetish. I realize that you are sane, and would not hold such a view.
Hal, will you be providing your reasons for not valuing the preborn human being?
Thanks for calling me sane. I was afraid my musings on the value of human life might have caused some to reexamine that premise.
Hal,
Let’s be serious here. The number of cases where a doctor “decides” an abortion is recommended are ridiculously few and far between. The best that can be said about him is that he’s like a plastic surgeon drastically changing a perfectly good nose.
And this isn’t a matter of trusting the mother. It’s a matter of right and wrong.
Hans, I’m not saying the doctor decides or recommends an abortion. However, I think it would be good practice for a woman to discuss her options with her personal physician.
Anti-colonialism is one line of marxism. What the marxists advocate and oppose depends upon circumstances. Overall, they have a political belief that a certain trinity in the “cultural hegemony” – that of the nuclear family, Christianity, and commerce – needs to be weakened so that the way they hold society together will weaken, society will weaken, and then the eventual marxist revolution will come about – obviously, in two ways: those who believe a revolution is needed and eventual (as a matter of cultural evolution) will finally weaken their opponent (the culturual hegemony) and everyone else will be in such a miserable state of affairs that they will be eager for hope and change.
Now: thought experiment: how might you weaken the nuclear family? Seriously – think about it. If you were to carry out a cultural media campaign to weaken whatever is good about the nuclear family being the building block of society, what types of ideas and values and policies might you promote?
A marriage is not primarily a social institution for enjoying sex; it is for building families, communities, and societies, so kids replace us and society goes on in some reasonable way. Sex is just a bonus.
To destroy this institution of the nuclear family, you have to separate sex from the nuclear family and from child-raising. There you have it.
The marxists and the Devil use the same strategy: they talk to you in lies that are enticing to you. Have sex before marriage? With others while married? With no concern of pregnancy? OK, I am interested – tell me more.
This is why the marxists (and generic American liberals) repeat the tired idea about “theocracy” and “controlling women” and so on. I believe they usually actually believe this rhetoric.
Hi Jerry 12:13am
It was the “misguided dreamers” who ultimately put Obama in power. It was religious people and their leaders who compromised their values and beliefs so as to have a seat at the Devil’s table. I’m afraid I can’t agree Jerry that its mainly the Democrat leadership. Obama came to power because the majority of Americans put him there, just as Hitler only came to power because the majority of Germans supported him.
I look forward to the Romney/Obama debates. Unlike McCain, who bent over backwards to be a nice guy and hand the election to Obama, I think Romney can really stick it to Obama. Obama loathes Romney, this is not just a political contest to him. Look for very subdued seething rage and a few not so subtle middle fingers during the debate, a very petulant tactic Obama has employed in the past against Hillary Clinton and McCain.
As I said with Obama, it is very personal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc8Wc1CN7sY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAfSOGmRIA
Oops, my bad,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNO58WdUptU
Mary, love the Hitler reference. Classy.
Obama was elected because he won the election. I’ll give you that. He’ll likely win re-election too. Romney didn’t win the debate with Ted Kennedy, didn’t debate that well in this years primary, and doesn’t have much hope against Obama. I’m beginning to think the election is over. DNC was firing on all cylinders last nice. Amazing and inspiring.
Hal, Ted is dead. He also watched a video of a third trimester abortion and could not bring himself to see the value in that life, either.
If you believe Obama is a great leader and we are better off, I can’t really have a discussion until you PUT THE PIPE DOWN.
Oh, and that minstrel show of freaks at the DNC? You talk about shiny packaging. Tell me what is inspiring about a party who has reframed itself on the backs of bitter women and broken baby bodies?
Courtnay, I absolutely believe President Obama is s a great leader. No doubt about it.
Inspiring? Lilly Ledbetter, Governor Patrick, Stacy Lihn (you didn’t miss baby Zoe did you?), Mayor Castro, Tammy Duckworth, Michelle Obama.
Hal, you need to listen to Gov. Chris Christie’s speech again. I dd it. I liked it more the second time around.
He mentioned a few words that you will rarely hear come out of the mouth of Democrat with any kind of conviction:
“Respect”, “Sacrifice”, “Budget”, “No”, “Accountability”, and “Fiscal restraint”.
All those people you listed are prepared at any given time to relegate a fellow human being as a “mistake” and kill him or her.
Hal, come on. You boy is, and always will be, a pathetic academic who only lives in his head.
All I heard at the RNC was “Obama hasn’t fixed things fast enough.” Last night at the DNC, we heard how much Obama has done for our country. Until the Republicans are will (Democrats too, for that matter) to cut at least 20% from defense, I don’t think they should be allowed to talk about “fiscal restraint,” or “accountability.” Why, exactly, do we need troops in Germany right now? Romney wants to cut spending. Obama wants to make this country a better place for us to live. Which would you choose. Especially, when you realize Obama has slowed federal spending to record levels.
Obama spending binge never happened.
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-22/commentary/31802270_1_spending-federal-budget-drunken-sailor
Hal says:
What is “value?”
I think you know. If a stranger were to set his sights on killing your child, what would be your reaction? If there is no “value” in your child’s life then all is lost. In the same way, it is not just your child, it is all children. And the child does not..poof…become a child when he or she draws their first breath.
Let’s say that “value” is only measured in economic data. OK, then the “value” of the 55 million aborted babies and their own likely offspring to date is some 37 trillion dollars in lost GNP.
Going back to why you do not feel threatend by abortion. We call it the “slippery slope”. Now that preborn babies are expendable, what is next? Or, rather, WHO is next? I suggest it may be those of us who are headed into our twilight years, i.e. when we line up for what are now accessible medical treatments and procedures only to find that thanks to our newfound disregard for the value of human life under Obamacare and his IPAB board that we are now the expendable ones.
So a few years from now when you are hoping to get the potentially life-saving MRI but cannot because of your age you will find that “value” being the subjective property of a government bureaucrat ain’t working out too well.
I don’t see why you all bother with Hal. I don’t see how anyone can be friendly and cordial with him, either. If he didn’t see the inherent value of his child(ren), he’s definitely not going to see the value in others that he has reduced down into an abstract non-entity in his own mind. He’s a loser.
Jerry, almost everyone agrees that we spend way too much on health care for those in their last 6 months of life. I’d be fine if less were spent on me at the end. (and I’m much more worried about an insurance adjuster making subjective decisions about what is appropriate for my care than a “government bureaucrat.”)
Hal wrote: Why, exactly, do we need troops in Germany right now?
Hal, I suggest you ask the current President.
Cutting spending is required if you don’t want to pass on the US debt to your children.
Hal also wrote: Obama spending binge never happened
LOL
I think there is one word that should be used to describe Democrats: “delusional.”
xalisae, do you think that anyone who believes the government shouldn’t be involved in abortion decisions is a “loser?” Perhaps you do. I assure you, however, my views are pretty conventional. Granted, we disagree on some things. I’m sure there are other things we could see eye-to-eye on. Assuming you’re not a Yankee fan ;)
Tyler, I was quoting the Wall Street Journal. Don’t believe everything you hear on Fox or at the RNC. Obama is pretty moderate economically.
xalisae, what did Hal do to his children?
If it is what I suspect, does he know about Rachel Vineyards?
Barack Obama has not been able to accomplish anything since the Dems lost the House in 2010. The President doesn’t know how to comprise or how to reach a deal.
Barack expexcts prolifers to comprise on a life or death issue like abortion, but he won’t even comprise on not taxing the top 2%. The President is insane. The President’s priorities are all screwed up.
As a member of the top 2%, I don’t see why taxes can’t be at Clinton-era levels during a time of deficits. Let’s go back to surpluses for awhile.
Regarding compromise, Obama has tried. But the Republicans have admitted their primary goal (in time of great crisis, no less) is preventing his re-election.
Tyler, xalisae is either referring to the fact I let my daughter pass up Dartmouth or to some abortions long ago and far away.
I can’t stand Obama, but I don’t think he’s the only one at fault for the inability to compromise with the Republicans, they share their fair share of blame of putting petty politics above the nation’s welfare.
xalisae, do you think that anyone who believes the government shouldn’t be involved in abortion decisions is a “loser?” Perhaps you do. I assure you, however, my views are pretty conventional. Granted, we disagree on some things. I’m sure there are other things we could see eye-to-eye on. Assuming you’re not a Yankee fan
Yes. I do. Anyone who is not willing to defend those who cannot defend themselves is a loser. Anyone who would allow their own defenseless child to be killed is worse than a loser. Anyone who would urge, support, or encourage their defenseless child’s death is worse than THAT. And I definitely wouldn’t say such a view is “conventional”, especially not now that the tide has begun its turn. I don’t care to speak to you long enough to attempt to find anything on which to “see eye-to-eye” with you. I also loathe baseball.
Tyler, xalisae is either referring to the fact I let my daughter pass up Dartmouth or to some abortions long ago and far away.
The latter. That you’re intentionally trying to get under my skin by pretending that the decision on whether or not to have some of your children killed is as consequential as their decision about where to attend school for their post-secondary education is perfectly revolting. I honestly do not see how people like Carla, BB, and phillymiss are able to associate with you in such a cheerful manner without vomiting on their keyboards.
There is one problem Hal: President Obama is not President Clinton.
However, both men are accomplished liars. President Obama treats the American public like President Clinton treated Ms. Monica Lewinsky, Ms. Clinton, the American public etc…: as someone who can be lied to.
Baseball is “America’s Pasttime.”. America is God’s favorite country. Loath baseball at your own risk.
Seriously, though, you seem to have strong feelings concerning abortion. I admire your passion,and sorry for trying to get ipunder your skin.
Thanks xalisae.
Now I have an idea as to why Hal never answered my question: “What your reasons for not valuing the life of the preborn?”
Gee, X, I think Hal is on to something. You DO seem to have strong feelings about abortion. Huh!
And to think his vote counts as much as mine. Scary.
Hal: As a member of the top 2%, I don’t see why taxes can’t be at Clinton-era levels during a time of deficits. Let’s go back to surpluses for awhile.
What the HECK?
Dream on. That won’t do it. Can you point to an analysis that indicates that “Obama’s plan” (where is it?) will return us t0 surpluses?
You could CONFISCATE the liquid assets of the rich, and it wouldn’t make up his $1.2 trillion deficits.
A small tax hike won’t do it alone, but an improving economy generates lots of economic activity which increases government revenues.
“This is the president who delivered the security of affordable health care to every single American after 90 years of trying. This is the president who brought Osama bin Laden to justice, who ended the war in Iraq and is ending the war in Afghanistan. This is the president who ended ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ so that love of country, not love of another, determines fitness for military service. Who made equal pay for equal work the law of the land. This is the president who saved the American auto industry from extinction, the American financial industry from self-destruction, and the American economy from depression,” – Deval Patrick
Baseball is “America’s Pasttime.”. America is God’s favorite country. Loath baseball at your own risk.
Tee hee, it’s funny ‘cuz you know I’m not religious. You’re a real piece of…work.
Hal, the reason I have such strong feelings about abortion is because a lot of people wanted my daughter to be one, and at least one of your children that I know of actually were, at least in part because of you, their own father. It’s sick. The fact you can be so blasé about it is disgusting.
See, I knew we’d find something we have in common. I’m not religious either.
Hal, you can always become religious The Church’s doors are always open.
http://rachelsvineyard.org/
See, I knew we’d find something we have in common. I’m not religious either.
Not really. I don’t use my lack of religion as an excuse to be a horrible monster.
Thanks Hal,
Glad you like the Hitler comparison. I consider it very appropriate as well.
Oh, and speaking of classy, you can’t beat Obama with his middle finger every time an opponent is mentioned. Now that’s class. Right Hal, I know, he’s not really giving anyone the finger. Its just coincidental how he happens to get an itchy head at the mention of an opponent’s name.
Horrible monster?
Ok. Have a great day everyone. Don’t forget to watch the convention tonight
Hal: “A small tax hike won’t do it alone, but an improving economy generates lots of economic activity which increases government revenues.”
Which we’ll need to pay interest on our increasing debt inasmuch as we’ve been downgraded. And unfortunately the economy’s not improving at a clip that’ll rescue us from the further debt that will take us faster in the direction of Greece — especially once there’s pressure for the fed to bail out our own Greece on the west coast, and its lamer wanna-be cousin south of Wisconsin.
I’ve sometimes speculated that the very manufactured Obama was constructed solely to give Illinois a shot at a federal bailout. One more reason to boot Obama. Let this state’s Madigans (et al.) suffer the consequences for what they’ve wrought.
For those wondering when BO lied, here are a couple of his more major lies:
1) Telling the American public that Obamacare is not a tax, and telling Notre Dame that he would include a conscience protection clause in Obamacare.
2) Saying that determining when life begins is above is pay grade while still having a position supporting abortion.
Barack’s lies are so crafty, and wrapped-up in nifty rhetoric about man-made “rights”, that we often don’t realize that he is lying.
I forgot to mention Barack’s biggest and first lie. It occurred right at the beginning of his Presidency when he said that he would uphold the laws of the land. And then he did not do so. He has not upheld the immigration laws, or DOMA, etc.. Many of Barack’s lies are done via his actions.
Lifejoy, it was “health care choices that only women can make for themselves” at 10:57
We were close.
Well, his wings have been clipped.
Definitely no soaring tonight.
His best part was when he talked about using some of the money spent on wars and defense spending on nation building.
His worst part was when he used the word “never’. Didn’t anyone tell him to cautious about when you use that word. It was funny because he had just been tlaking about comprise and bipartisanship. He used the word when he was talking about “never” giving into the GOP’s alleged tax cut for the wealthy. Winston Churchill used the word “never” in one of the few places that is acceptable to use that word: War. You could use the word “never” when defending the preborn so that abortion will ”never” remain the law of the land. But to use the word “never” in that context simply showed his own inflexibility, and his desire to put his politics before the good of the USA.
Tyler, his wings have not be “clipped.” It took me awhile to figure out what he was trying to do. It was brilliant.
He didn’t want to appear “rock star” last nigh, but Presidential. He delivered exactly the right speech: nothing too flashy, nothing too controversial. Vote for me and return to normalcy. I have experience. I have been tested. I am not scary or foreign. Strong. steady leadership in tough times.
Baaaaaaaaa. Baaaaaaaaa.
Hal here is my attempt to answer some earlier tough questions you posed:
What is “value?”
Value is metaphysical claim about the worth of an idea, object, human person, or course of action. Value is spirit. Value(s) is (are) not material. Values cannot be touched. Values can’t be proven to exist via the scientific method nor can science determine which values are better, or more important, or right. From a scientific perspective values are merely the result of certain electrical pulses in a brain. Without God values end up being relative because they are meaningless brain activity.
All values must participate in some absolute, eternal and unchanging value. For example, if there was no eternal unchanging absolute Good then we would never be able to return to being good once we had fallen away and were bad. But this is not the case, an unjust man can become just again. So although our understanding and knowledge of the Good is, in part, innate so that we have enough understanding of this unchanging Good that we can recognize it when we see it, the fact that more than one person can recognize a good chair, a good person, etc… shows us that there is an external and objective Good that all life and things participates in.
What makes you think any human life has “value?”
The ability of human life to image God, everlasting life, is what gives it value.
If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy, how do we know whether that decision and her wishes have more “value” than the “value” of the preborn baby?
This question needn’t be posed conditionally. The real question is how are we able to know which things are of higher value. This is a good question. It is really a question of why she doesn’t value life, for if she could be shown that human life has sufficient value she would wish for it. If she doesn’t value human life, then for the sake of logical consistency she should not value her own life/existence. If she doesn’t value her own life her wishes can’t be that important to her and in fact, in some sense, she must wishing for her own destruction if she does not value the life of the preborn baby. Since it is not only not logical, but also not Good, to seek your own destruction it becomes apparent that the value of life, which includes the life of the preborn, trumps a person’s individual wishes and exists as a higher value than a personal wishes. The value of Life, like Truth and Justice, is a foundational and teleological value.
“The ability of human life to image God, everlasting life, is what gives it value.”
.
No wonder I don’t get it.
I always thought of it as the fact that they are human beings, just as I am, and my ability to recognize this and show them the compassion I would want were I in their position means that ALL of our lives have value as a higher-functioning species. The capacity for compassion must be nurtured and encourages, or else our lives LOSE meaning, and become no better than animals in the fields. But I guess if lack that ability and you live your life as an animal out in the field already, you wouldn’t “get it”.
*nurtured and encouraged
But I guess if *you lack
(that’s what I get for folding laundry while reading/typing)
xalisae, I wish I could say ‘laundry’ was the excuse for all my typing and syntax errors - sometimes it is but not all of the time.
Hal, Christianity taught us that our morality is our spirituality and vice versa.
Hal, this is how St. Paul said it:
22 But Paul standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are too superstitious.23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you:24 God, who made the world, and all things therein; he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;25 Neither is he served with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing; seeing it is he who giveth to all life, and breath, and all things:26 And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation.27 That they should seek God, if happily they may feel after him or find him, although he be not far from every one of us:28 For in him we live, and move, and are; as some also of your own poets said: For we are also his offspring.
Acts 17:22-28
Hal: Presidential? Yeah, if “presidential” means “the same way he sounds every day when he’s out campaigning.” That’s pretty much what his presidency’s become, starting last year.
He sounded banal because it’s the same stuff he’s always trotting out. Remember, he’s the guy who laments not that he’s screwed anything up, but that he’s failed to communicate to Americans just how brilliant his plans really are, despite the appearance of incompetence to us mere mortals.
So what does he do? Trots around the country saying the same tired things over, and over, and over — browbeating us until even the media give up on the guy. “Words. Just words.”
It. Gets. Old.
And pitching the delivery the other night as brilliantly calculated to seem unremarkable is just ridiculous. Occam’s razor presses us to just chalk it up to more of the same ol’ same ol’ that has us all swooning with ennui.
I finally saw the Obama movie tonight. Is there any evidence that his parents and/or grandparents were strong pro-aborts? It was interesting to hear that his brother living in Africa doesn’t appear to hold the strong anti-colonialist views like Obama and his father.
The movie is worth seeing although much of it is a re-hashing of what the conservative media have already revealed to those who have been following along over the past five or so years.