American College of Nurse Midwives lends support to “gender variants”
Anyone else feel like it really is a tide that is turning these days? The American College of Nurse Midwives issued a statement in support of working towards quality, competent care for trans and gender non-conforming people.
Woo-hoo!
~ Radical Doula Miriam Zoila Pérez, January 17, excited over a recent statement issued by ACNM that “addresses the need for education about transgender issues in midwifery education.” The statement explains:
HIV infection within the gender variant community is 4 times the rate of the general population; rates of drug, alcohol, and tobacco use, and depression and suicide attempts are also higher. These outcomes disproportionately affect gender variant people of color.
[G]ender variant individuals desire parenting roles and can and do create biological families….
Musculoskeletal, cardiovascular, breast, and pelvic care for individuals who have undergone hormonal and/or surgical therapy is typically straightforward but in some cases requires additional training.
[Photo, via UK Telegraph, is of pregnant transgendered California couple Scott and Thomas Moore, both born as girls, and their two adopted sons, “children of a former female partner of Thomas’s.” Scott is due with his/her first baby next month.]
The “Pregnant Man” headlines were both misleading and premature. When a person born biologically male actually gets pregnant — this will probably be done within 100 years or so — that will be news. It is not news that someone who is biologically female can get pregnant however that person identifies.
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Both of them, born as girls are now grown women.
Nothing can change that.
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The depression and suicide is likely the result of various addictions.
They need healthcare to help them to get and stay clean.
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The addictions are probably the result of them striving so hard to be something they are not and will never be.
They need mental healthcare to help them with their delusion.
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Oh God, please help me to love my fellow man…I mean fellow persons.
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Whatever, do what you want. Just don’t try and tell me it’s normal or right.
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What SHE needs is mental health care…I am sure Obamacare can help them. :)
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Those poor innocent boys brought up to think that perversion of nature is good and righteous rather than the evil it truly is. Woe onto this pair of women. Pray for the salvation of these people…pray for Gods mercy on their souls.
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I’m sick to my stomach right now.
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Doctors who exploit people who need real health care…
doctors who take people’s money and give them hormones and drugs that they don’t need that won’t heal or cure any part of their mind or body…
doctors who use surgical tools to rend, tear, and mutilate healthy human tissue remind me of…
Who do they remind me of?????
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EVERYONE deserves quality health care.
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Why do you care? If they’re happy, good for them.
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Hal,
The question isn’t whether or not they’re happy…the question is about objective right and objective wrong not a person’s definition of happiness.
I forget who said it, but there’s a quote out there that says “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.”
The point the other comments are making is (and what my point is), whether or not transgender is morally and objectively right or morally and objectively wrong, not whether or not the people in question are happy. Not everything a person does that is RIGHT means they’re going to be overjoyed about doing it. Some people do things that are objectively wrong and say they’re happy about it, but it doesn’t change the fact it’s objectively wrong.
If we all do just whatever made us “feel happy” happy all the time some responsibilities would probably be neglected.
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There are hospitals that have hallways of patients that just wanted to be happy. Now they’re filled with regret, have cancer, and still struggle with the same mis-treated mental illness that landed them in a quack’s office in the first place. Happy? Not gonna get there being exploited by shoddy doctors. I don’t care if you wear dresses or pants. I think if you take good care of the children you produce that’s better than NOT taking care of them. BUT, I’m not going to agree that it’s ok for so called healthcare practitioners to take their money and mutilate their bodies.
The dirty secret of the transgender community is how many sex-change patients live with both extreme regret and cancer. As long as they keep this secret from each other, more sexually confused individuals will be victimized by profiteers who don’t deserve to be called doctors. I don’t care who you love and what clothes you wear, but this is not what you need.
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There is nothing objectively wrong with what these people are doing. Not if you understand the word “objectively”
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Hal, ever read “Geek Love”? One of the books premises was that people who wanted to be disfigured and/or amputated could pay for that “service” from characters in the book. If there is nothing wrong with quacks mutilating members of the transgender community,
would you also agree that there is nothing wrong with a person having his healthy, functioning leg or arm amputated?
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Hal says, “…If they’re happy, good for them”
Are they happy? From the article:
“…depression and suicide attempts are also higher”
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Life most life decisions, you have to live with the choices you make. So, I guess I don’t care if they’re happy or not, it’s their business, not ours. Plus, if all us us were more accepting, they might not get so depressed.
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Exhibit A for why the Church says IVF is morally wrong. This entire situation is beneath human dignity. These two women need help, but those boys and this poor baby need and deserve a healthy, whole, normal family with a father and a mother.
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“Plus, if all us us were more accepting, they might not get so depressed.”
.
Ridiculous.
.
And if folks were more approving of alcoholism then,… well,…what?
.
People with mental problems have mental problems. That is their problem, not the rest of us just noticing that gee, they have mental problems. And no, mental problems don’t get better if everyone just is accepting of the problem. It doesn’t work that way. And yeah, people can have bona fide mental problems and not be axe murderers. These two, uh, people, have mental problems. That doesn’t mean they are evil or abusive, but they still have problems that are not solved by people being nicer to them.
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Thave don’t have mental problems. See? Anyone can just make a statement advancing their argument.
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“There is nothing objectively wrong with what these people are doing. Not if you understand the word “objectively””
Yup.
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The dirty secret of the transgender community is how many sex-change patients live with both extreme regret and cancer.
I read it’s only about 2 percent who regert their decisions. And where do you get the cancer figures from?
Transgender people should not be mistreated or ridiculed. But the bottom line is, you just can’t change your DNA. I had a coworker who also worked at a major hospital in Philly. Transgender people would come in and become upset that they were listed on medical records as their biological gender. But what if a woman who had transitioned into a man came into the hospital needing a heart transplant? You can’t put a man’s heart in a woman’s chest, its too large.
My ex-husband worked with transgendered people. Their families, especially their children, had LOTS of problems surrounding their parent’s “life decision” (they were usually men changing into women), The younger they were, the more issues the kids had with it. But no problem, as long as they (the adult transgenders) were happy.
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“My ex-husband worked with transgendered people. Their families, especially their children, had LOTS of problems surrounding their parent’s “life decision” (they were usually men changing into women), The younger they were, the more issues the kids had with it. But no problem, as long as they (the adult transgenders) were happy.”
You ever think that if people weren’t all “woe betide them and God have mercy on their souls” and making a huge deal about it, that the kids would adjust quite a bit better?
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So Jack, what else should we normalize in the hopes that the kids will adjust better? Why have any standards at all? Why not let people marry dogs or 10 year olds? Why not let me have 6 husbands: the one I have now and all those kids from One Direction?
C’mon. Equality is a great thing. But these people are FREAK SHOWS.
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I can feel the love, Courtney
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Because screwing kids and dogs is somehow similar to not wanting to live as the sex you were born?
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Hal says: January 23, 2013 at 12:47 pm
“Why do you care? If they’re happy, good for them.”
Hal,
Is this really you? You are not yourself.
Did you have a 3 martini lunch…….or something stronger?
What makes ped-duh-philes happy is gratifying their sexual compulsions with a child.
What makes Jew hating jihadists happy is making their world Jew free.
Remember it is verbotten to feed the homeless there in the emerald city unless the cuisine is first approved by the food nazis.
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So, does prego dude/dudette have a penis or a vajayjay? I’m confused just looking at the picture – can’t imagine how utterly confused these kiddos will be
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beastiality, pedophilia and self mutilation are all symptoms of a wounded soul.
All the drugs in the world are not going to mend that broken heart.
Unless the scalpel is some sort of magic wand, she/he will be the same miserable wretch she/he was before the first incision.
For a nominal fee the surgeon can put everything back where she/he found it.
No harm, no foul.
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No Jack, it’s all about what makes people HAPPY. Why can’t I change my gender like I change my hair color? You don’t believe in God, fine. But let’s drop this hippy-dippy feel-good response that “everything’s cool.” Take a cue from nature. These are born women who look like dudes who want to have children!
C’mon.
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phillymiss, I did not quote you any statistics.
But I could list a string of individuals that I personally know, or shall I say KNEW since many of them are already dead. One of the suicide victims that died in 2012 WAS ACCEPTED by ‘his’ biological family. They even honored ‘his’ wish to be remembered as ‘his’ fake sex. One is a drug addict that prostitutes to earn money. Another is also a drug addict that prostitutes for money. One is a lonely recluse, very sad. Another is already dead of cancer. And interestingly, one of my trans friends who wants to identify as a woman has no desire to get any surgery. That friend confided to me that the transgendered community to which ‘she’ is newly a member is EXTREMELY INTOLERANT of ‘her’ wish to remain biologically un-tampered with.
Now, there are many kinds of mental illness. Many kinds! You can’t generalize about mental illness. But maybe, just maybe, the same illness that makes them think changing their sex will make them happy, is the same illness they STILL HAVE after the irreversable operation that they come to regret. Like abortion, you can’t go back to the way you used to be. You can adapt, but there is no turning back.
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PS the person that works at the hospital explained: hers is not a mental health facility, but is an ‘ordinary’ hospital with a variety of departments. The patients in her department have cancer AND they are all mentaly ill. She wouldn’t risk her job with a HIPAA violation, but she has spoken to me in general about the department.
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I don’t have any problem with them personally. I feel badly for mentally ill people who are taken advantage of by physicians-mental health and otherwise-instead of actually being treated for their mental illness.
They’d just better not expect me to play along with their Mad Hatter’s Tea Party. I leave fiction to literature and theater, and refuse to facilitate someone else’s delusion in real life.
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Hi ken.. You’ll see I modified my answer. I don’t care if they’re happy or not. It’s just not our concern.
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You ever think that if people weren’t all “woe betide them and God have mercy on their souls” and making a huge deal about it, that the kids would adjust quite a bit better?
That’s not what I meant, Jack. These were young kids (about kindergarten age) who were confused and upset as to why Daddy was growing his hair long, wearing female clothes, and wanted to be called “Mommy.” Tell me, you have young children. How do you think they would deal with something like this?
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“No Jack, it’s all about what makes people HAPPY. Why can’t I change my gender like I change my hair color? You don’t believe in God, fine. But let’s drop this hippy-dippy feel-good response that “everything’s cool.” Take a cue from nature. These are born women who look like dudes who want to have children!
C’mon.”
Why does it matter or why should I care if you or anyone else wants to change your gender or anything else as you please? It’s really no one’s business what these people have in their pants or whether they would prefer to be called sir or ma’am. It’s like… I disagree quite strongly with the Duggars (and the Quiverfull movement in general, actually) and the way that they raise their children, but on the whole it’s not my business, not my life, and as long as their kids are being loved and cared for they can raise them as they please. I don’t call them freak shows, I don’t even say my real opinions on them because it’s seriously not my business. Same with this family. I just don’t understand, and probably never will, why anyone not involved in their lives worries so much about it.
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Many of the comments here are demonstrative of the causes for GLBT people having higher rates of mental issues and substance abuse problems.
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Hal said: Not if you understand the word “objectively”
Objectively? I do not think that word means what you think it means…I read a long and quite serious account from someone who was raised by two lesbians. His mother had him with his biological father then left to pursue her lesbian lover (this in the 70’s.) It left him horribly confused about sexual identity and his sexuality. Today, he is a father himself, his wife loves him, but he readily admits he is bisexual and rejected by everyone. He abstains from pursuing the homosexual lifestyle, admitting it nearly killed him. He saw many friends suffer and die. His wife connected with him on an level of intimacy that far surpassed any other relationship. He explains much better than I can the significance our gender plays in self-identity, borne out of experience, that he readily admits he wishes on no one.
It was a very honest and revealing account, and very objective. To say it’s subjective is to deny the suffering he and others went through.
Transgendered couples cannot self-populate.
Transgendered and homosexual populations rely upon the majority heterosexual population for continuation of the culture they themselves do not produce. Life is not in their interest.
All the cosmetic surgery in the world doesn’t change the internal makeup of their physiology. We are far more complex than a collection of interchangeable parts.
Ultimately you know the truth of such matters, but it seems for selfish reasons, you choose to ignore it. Lately I’ve been learning that it’s not really a matter of knowing whether something is true or not, as much as an individual honoring and acknowledging truth. Most people don’t *want* to know the truth. In such cases, any true sense of objectivity is destroyed.
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“That’s not what I meant, Jack. These were young kids (about kindergarten age) who were confused and upset as to why Daddy was growing his hair long, wearing female clothes, and wanted to be called “Mommy.” Tell me, you have young children. How do you think they would deal with something like this?”
I don’t know, they might be upset or they might not care. They were far less upset about my divorce than I thought they would be. Kids are adaptable. As long as they are reassured and talked to about the changes that are going on it’s a family matter like anything else that’s not abusive or neglectful.
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Dislike
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Chris,
“Anecdote” Is Not the Singular of “Data”
You’re entitled to your opinions, but don’t pretend you’re being objective,
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Why does it matter or why should I care if you or anyone else wants to change your gender or anything else as you please?
I care, because it can’t be done. Period. Acting as though it is possible is delusion, and healthy people don’t engage in such activities. And that is Objective Biological Truth.
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Hal is at least being frank when he says he doesn’t really care about others people’s happiness. Neither do the doctors who profit from this kind of exploitation.
But tell us, Hal, can I set up a body modification business where I amputate healthy arms and legs for paying customers? Can I? Why? Why not?
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Just one more example of children being treated as commodities.
“I want one now, so I’ll do what it takes to have one”. Or “I don’t want one now, so I’ll do what it takes to become unpregnant.”
Children long for their moms and dads. We adults should try our hardest to be the best moms or dads and part of that means working things out with your mate – for the sake of the children.
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“And that is Objective Biological Truth.”
Where the hell is your medical degree?
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I understand they have been working on the “Kay Cera, Cera” (sp?) Culture for years in The Netherlands (where you can “come out” any way you want) still much larger numbers of depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, and suicide among LGBTs when compared to heterosexuals (so the puritanical repression of gays by “religious nuts” in America is not the main problem). They also have had “same-sex” marriage or legal partnerships there for years, but I understand that after the first few years not only do the gays not bother to get married but now NO ONE else bothers to get married either, the fallout most births are out-of-wedlock. It’s not about the right to “marriage equality” it’s about destroying “traditional marriage”. I realize not all gays feel this way, I heard that there were homosexuals marching against “same-sex marriage” in France recently I found that really interesting. I wonder what those French gays know about the potential consequences of redefining marriage.
About a year ago I think it was AP or Yahoo News that reported the divorce rate is 187% among lesbians. Interesting.
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I am with Courtnay on this one.
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” … because it’s seriously not my business. Same with this family. I just don’t understand, and probably never will, why anyone not involved in their lives worries so much about it.”
Same reason why we care about abortion, child abuse, drug addiction, prostitution … Not only does this fruitless searching for happiness affect others negatively, it is self-destructive, inside and out.
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I’m not going along with the delusion either.
For one thing, a pregnant woman trying to look like a man and people moaning about how she’s just a parent bugs me no end.
Why? I live for being a Mother. Don’t take that away and reduce things to this parent and that patent. It’s offensive to what I do everyday to act like that Mothers don’t matter.
Don’t acknowledge my rights as a woman just to strip me of the dignity of being a woman and being a Mother. I’m not a neutral parent robot- I’m a Mom. And guess what, ladies wanting to look like guys and destroy being a woman- as if you could? I not only identify with being a Mom, but I totally honor and love my Mom! And, my Grandmothers, too!
Take your delusional no-Mom family and shove it! I’m not celebrating your rejection of Mothers!
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I do not believe this is truly a deliberate choice, like gee, I want to be a male or female. I am convinced TG is something inate, that human sexuality is a continuum, that there are no clearly defined borders. The human brain is something we have little understanding of.
TG is certainly nothing new. Various cultures reported cross dressers, gays, and people who dressed and acted as the opposite sex. Some cultures were tolerant, amused, or condemning. What about women who dressed as men to fight in the American Revolution? Could they possibly have been TG? There are accounts of women who disguised themselves as men to “man” pirate ships. TG? Women like Joan of Arc and Queen Boudica led armies and there is no indication they were gay or TG, though Joan of Arc insisted on dressing like a man. In some cultures it is acceptable for men to dress and perform as women. TG or crossdressers.
Personally I can’t imagine the torment these people go through, and many report it is from their earliest childhood. Who would choose this?
Trauma to children? Let’s see now, children have endured wars, enslavement, concentration camps, abandonment, civil upheavel, famines, scourges,discovering dad’s porn stash, mom and dad’s swinger parties, parental affairs, dad’s midlife crisis, alcohol and drug abuse, being sold to pay for a parental drug habit, child abuse, etc. However, we tear our hair out over what these children in the thread post may be “enduring”, but seem so oblivious to the real horrors so many children endure every day, but since they don’t have TG or gay parents, well, whew! What about children sold into sexual slavery by their heterosexual parents? A not uncommon practice in certain parts of the world.
Let’s not forget that over the centuries we may have had more than a few such ancestors who were forced in “normal” unions and forced to be what they were not. Marriages among the ruling class and nobility were for the most part strictly political and dalliances were a given. Prostitution, strip clubs and sex clubs are still frequented by married men.
Was it healthy for the children of Princess Diana and Prince Charles that their father openly had a mistress and their mother was so miserably trapped and unhappy? Yet I don’t recall much concern or outrage expressed for these children of “normal” parents.
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“Yet I don’t recall much concern or outrage expressed for these children of “normal” parents.”
Of course not, because those “normal” parents stayed within the confines of rigid gender roles. If you do that, you can get away with all kinds of terrible traumatizing stuff.
I agree with your whole post Mary.
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Hi Mary Ann 12:57am
So its not possible for a man to be a loving parent? This is confined strictly to women? I can think of any number of women I know who should have never had children. Foster and adoptive parents and siblings “mother” children. Are they any less loving than you? Do they debase you as a mother in any way?
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Thank you Jack
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I don’t have any problem with people whose personalities/interests/etc don’t fit within traditional “gender roles”-more power to ’em. I’ve always been more masculine in a ton of ways, myself. But I’m not so delusional to think I can turn my vagina into a penis or even that it should be so.
Megan,
It doesn’t take a doctorate to determine someone’s biological gender. 9_9
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Hi X,
I don’t see this as a delusion, but rather people who in their minds are trapped in the wrong body. Can I comprehend this? Not in the least. I can’t imagine waking up tomorrow in a man’s body and what lengths I would go to in order to change it. Now imagine living every day of my life like this and I might, just might, have some concept of what TG people go through.
What’s interesting is these people will tell you they knew from their earliest childhood they were different. “Chaz” Bono never liked to wear dresses and wanted to emulate his father since his earliest memory. Others speak of wanting to dress and play as the opposite sex. They were already uncomfortable with their gender role and being forced to be what, in their minds, they were not. Now I suppose we could go into all kinds of analysis of the parenting they rec’d, or we might face up to the possiblity this is something we don’t understand that has a real physiological basis.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you describe yourself as “masculine” in many ways. We find people to stay in clearly defined borders of what is masculine and feminine. Is this just your personality and how you think, the person you are? Can you change it? Could you be a lot more feminine or is that just not you?
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Correction, 2:06PM
I meant to say: We find that people don’t stay in clearly defined borders of what is masculine and feminine.
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but rather people who in their minds are trapped in the wrong body.
And that sounds absolutely insane. I’m more inclined to believe their minds are sick than that they are “trapped in the wrong body”.
“What’s interesting is these people will tell you they knew from their earliest childhood they were different. “Chaz” Bono never liked to wear dresses and wanted to emulate his father since his earliest memory. Others speak of wanting to dress and play as the opposite sex. They were already uncomfortable with their gender role and being forced to be what, in their minds, they were not.”
Yeah. All that stuff could be said about me growing up, too. My dad taught me to weld when I was 7. We built my first bicycle together. I used to get pissed at my cousins for making me be a “nurse” when we played Army because I wanted to be a soldier like they were, out there shooting. I feel like I’m dressing up for Halloween when putting on a dress and make-up, because it’s totally not who I am. So what? I have xx chromosomes, ovaries, a uterus, and everything else that goes along with it. If I ever thought for a second that just because my drives, likes, interests, thoughts, feelings, WHATEVER, have always been more masculine than feminine, I’d have myself committed, because: my brain is WHO I am. My body is WHAT I am. And it’s my brain’s job to acknowledge what my body is, and not pretending to be something else. My likes/preferences/thoughts/etc. do not dictate reality.
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Hi X
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you have to keep in mind the same was thought of gay people at one time.
Right X, my point exactly. Did your father force you to weld and put a bicycle together or did you have an interest in and a talent for it? My father would take me on his refrigeration service runs but I never became interested in repair work of any kind. The most I can do is change a lightbulb. Your cousins wanted you to be a “nurse”, you wanted to be a soldier. Interesting. So did I. Was that something you consciously controlled or was it “just you”? It sounds like you were a tomboy. My two girls were entirely different from toddlerhood, one a real girly girl, the other who had no sense of fear and could care less about “girly” things, she would have rather climbed a tree. Both are straight. It just shows that what is masculine and feminine has no boundaries set in stone.
Exactly, your brain is WHO you are. The brain of the TG person is telling them that WHO they are is completely different from WHAT they are. Your brain says you like to do certain things that are not defined as “feminine”. Your body is telling you and others that you have to fit certain gender roles. Your brain is saying “sorry, but I much prefer certain “masculine” roles and that’s just who I am” and don’t try to force me to be any different”.
As I said X, maybe the best way to get some idea for what the TG lives with is to imagine yourself waking up tomorrow morning in a man’s body. Your brain is telling you one thing but your body is telling you something else. Your reaction? This may give you some indication of what the TG person lives with on a daily basis.
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Excellent read A Queer Thing Happened to America by Michael L. Brown with the background of the GLBTQ movement and includes background of the promotion of trans-gender and all the “gender-variant” lifestyles. If you think they just want tolerance and acceptance you are deceived and if you think it will just stop at same-sex marriage you are truly deceived. You ain’t seen nothing yet, NAMBLA is on the rise, the universitiy professors who are coming out of the closet for the “rights” of man-boy lovers. There are actual quotes of them promoting so-called “research” to say how beneficial “man-boy love” is to minors.
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“You ain’t seen nothing yet, NAMBLA is on the rise, the universitiy professors who are coming out of the closet for the “rights” of man-boy lovers. There are actual quotes of them promoting so-called “research” to say how beneficial “man-boy love” is to minors.”
That bull has nothing to do with gay people who want consenting relationships with the same gender and nothing to do with trans people. It’s seriously offensive to claim so. Raping little boys has as much to do with consenting gay relationships as raping little girls has to do with consenting straight relationships.
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Hi PLL,
BTW, its “que sera sera” :)
Yes I’ve heard about the child molesters now wanting to come out in force, a despicable crime that knows no boundaries of gender, age, family relationship, and sexual preference. Gay and straight people molest children. Family members molest family members. High school teachers jof both genders have sex with students.
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Hi Mary,
Did you just out xalisae with your comment at 3:02 pm?
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xalisae
I agree with you completely, but with a Christian world view. This is caused by sin, it’s no better or worse than lying, gossiping, hating other people, alcoholism, the break down of the marriage, fornication, etc etc. Therefore my reaction is to love these people while not endorsing or encouraging their behavior. Basically I have the distinct ability to piss everyone off in the room at the same time if asked my opinion :) or if my opinion is never asked it’s assumed I endorse this type of behavior.
“right-wing” people get mad when they see me interacting peacefully with people that have outward sexual sin like these women, while my ‘left-wing’ family hates on me b/c they ask my opinion in a family setting and don’t like it.
Where does the love come in for secular people if at all, for people who are different from them? I can understand feeling like I would have to fight against things like this b/c of the whole ‘tolerance’ movement, ie to accept this is to have to cheer for it in business and public settings or be pushed out of society/business. Is there love for the fellow man in secular circles or is it always us against them, get them before they get us?
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“Yet I don’t recall much concern or outrage expressed for these children of “normal” parents.”
“Of course not, because those “normal” parents stayed within the confines of rigid gender roles. If you do that, you can get away with all kinds of terrible traumatizing stuff.”
Oh, I, and many others here to be sure, are well aware of and perfectly open to denouncing infidelity and other pitiful behavior from people of rigid genders. (!?) So I am calling baloney on that one.
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Hi Lifejoy,
Sounds good to me. Let’s call out all the bad behavior on the part of heterosexual parents. Fair is fair.
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“Is there love for the fellow man in secular circles or is it always us against them, get them before they get us?”
This question doesn’t make any sense. Secularists are people, people not necessarily defined by any religious or philosophical ideology. Some secularists may have love for their fellow man (humanism is basically all about that), while others less so. I haven’t seen any evidence that secularists are worse or better than religious people at the “love” thing, it doesn’t seem to make any difference what religion someone claims.
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Mary,
I don’t understand why you bring up the homosexual thing. That’s just a personal preference. It makes no sense to me biologically, but that’s their *preference*, and you can’t argue someone’s *preference* is wrong, since it’s all opinion. It’d be like arguing over the beauty of a painting. I reserve such fruitless endeavors for “proving” that Soulja Boy/Justin Beiber/etc “sucks”.
The brain of the TG person is telling them that WHO they are is completely different from WHAT they are.
When the thoughts of the brain do not align with what is physical reality, that is dysfunction.
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…”my brain is WHO I am. My body is WHAT I am.”
X-quisite,
ktb likes that a lot.
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I certainly hope that the American Veterinary Medical Association is working on their quality of care for trans-species individuals. After all, if you feel that you were born within the wrong species, and that in your heart you are a duck or a cat, then everyone should fully support you in that. You should be allowed to live in the duck pond at the community park and have little kids feed you stale bread. You should be allowed to wear furry ears and a tail and defecate in a litter box. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a bigot.
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Hi X,
I just mention that since gay people were at one time thought to have minds as sick as you seem to think TG people are. I personally don’t see homosexuality, or heterosexuality either, as a personal preference, though it may be in some instances.
Again you can call it dysfunction or whatever you choose. For whatever reason who they are doesn’t jive with what they are. Since you are a woman and admit you like doing some “masculine” things, does that indicate some kind of dysfunction? How about a man that likes to do “feminine” things? Many TG people have said that to deny their transgenderism and cope with their mental anguish, they have tried to be supermasculine or superfeminine. So are they no longer dysfunctional when they do this? For the most part it is an unsuccessful coping mechanism.
On that note, while attending a professional convention, there was a military convention in the same hotel. I was surprised to see a former paratrooper dressed like a woman, with his wife. Now it was obvious this was a man dressing as a woman. The next time I saw him he was dressed as a man. Dysfunctional? The man bravely served our country in Vietnam. Perhaps he is an example of someone who tried to cope by being “supermasculine” and then decided at this point in his life to be what he is, either TG or a crossdresser. Take him or leave him. I had the nicest talk with him and his wife. He was an incredible man.
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Well JoAnna,
while working in the ER I did encounter someone who howled at the moon and ran on all fours on the nite of the full moon. The rescue squad brought him in and the ER doc just gave his blessing and we sent him to the mental hospital. No way would we unchain him, especially since he was baring his teeth at us.
Then there were the ladies in labor who were adamant they had never had sex. The ER doc told me to go look for a star in the East.
Work ER long enough JoAnna and people who think they a cat or a duck will seem pretty mundane.
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The brain of the TG person is telling them that WHO they are is completely different from WHAT they are.
Agree, Ken. X-quisite.
Anorexics think they are fat. Maybe we should put them on a diet.
Cutters think they are worthless. Maybe we should confirm to them that they really are and sharpen their blades for them.
Alcoholics/drug addicts think they cannot live without their drug. Maybe we should provide free drugs to them.
When I was small, I thought I was a fairy princess but no one indulged me and sewed on any wings. Haters.
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Mary – Concerning your cross-dressing veteran example: it seems to me you may confusing the distinction between approval and love, and conversely, disapproval and hate.. At least for my part, and most likely many of us, I don’t dislike TG people, but I dislike their actions when they mutilate perfectly functional anatomy. I feel bad for them in their confusion, but it doesn’t make it all ok. We all have our issues, some more serious than others, but that just explains harmful behavior, not justifies it.
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Praxedes,
Don’t TG persons get extensive counselling before going through surgery? Don’t they have to go through a long process of living as the opposite sex? Its not like they decide one day they want to be another sex and have surgery the next day.
Also, don’t you make every effort to help individuals with conditions you describe? Are they not counselled? Do they ever relapse, do some never recover? Do you realize that certain aspects of their lives must be changed if they are to survive and cope with their condition? Are there times that sadly you can only admit defeat, that you just can’t help someone?
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Hi Lifejoy,
Its really a matter of perspective. To the TG, their body is an aberration. They are correcting it, not mutilating it.
Some may not go to the extreme of surgery, but live as the opposite sex.
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Don’t TG persons get extensive counselling before going through surgery? Yup. And are all counselors the most stable themselves? Let me know if you want examples.
Don’t they have to go through a long process of living as the opposite sex? Yup. Alcoholics aren’t made in a day either.
Also, don’t you make every effort to help individuals with conditions you describe? You bet. I never encourage their dysfunctions or disorders. I applaud their milestones and encourage all-around health.
Are they not counselled? Do they ever relapse, do some never recover? Yes. Yes. Yes.
Do you realize that certain aspects of their lives must be changed if they are to survive and cope with their condition? Yes. Major body mutilations should never be a part of healthy, positive change though.
To the TG, their body is an aberration. They are correcting it, not mutilating it. And so is the person who cuts off his arm because he believes it is a snake.
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Hi Praxedes,
Yes I am sure there are counsellors of questionable stability themselves but that proves what where counselling of TGs, or anyone, is concerned?
Praxedes, the TG, seeks counselling, is diagnosed as a TG, and lives as the opposite sex before they take the extreme step of surgery. Some make up their mind to go through surgery, some never do, some decide they do not want to live as the opposite sex after all. What does this have to do with the alcoholic?
I’m sure you make every effort to help people, but are there not clients who are determined to continue on their path, despite your best efforts? People you simply can’t change or help? You don’t encourage them, but you realize they have to make their own choices.
What may be a major body mutilation to you may be seen by the TG as the answer to a prayer and an end to a life of misery.
I would think people who believe their arm is a snake are psychotic. There is a condition where they consider a portion of their body, like a leg or hand, as foreign and want it removed. Interesting that they found that this condition has a physiological origin in the brain. These people will go so far as to self amputate or cause such severe injury that amputation is necessary. To these people this is very real and express great relief when this body part is gone, to us its just sick.
As I said, a lot about the human brain we do no comprehend.
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You don’t encourage them, but you realize they have to make their own choices.
You’re right. But people shouldn’t be taking their money (or mine) to mutilate them.
What may be a major body mutilation to you may be seen by the TG as the answer to a prayer and an end to a life of misery.
Where have we seen this argument before?
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Hi Praxedes,
I don’t understand your point. These surgeries are self pay. I certainly do not agree the taxpayer should pay it for someone in prison, as has been done.
If your point is this is an argument for abortion, I’m talking about the TG and his/herself, not another human being.
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Mary, My point is we don’t have to take money for everything people want to buy. Abortion hurts and mutilates the moms as well btw.
Agree to disagree with your support of these types of surgeries.
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I just mention that since gay people were at one time thought to have minds as sick as you seem to think TG people are.
Well great. What other totally unrelated things would you like to talk about with me? Or is this the only tangent in which you’d like to digress?
I explained to you the difference for a reason. *Attraction*, which is what homosexuality is about, is a completely subjective thing. I don’t do much finger-wagging at fetishists, either. None of my business. However, we are talking about people who are provably biologically-FACTUALLY-one gender, trying to piss up my leg and tell me it’s raining by INSISTING that they are a different gender. Not buyin’ it, thanks.
WAIT A MINUTE-maybe…WHAT IF EVERYONE WHO IS “COLORBLIND” IS RIGHT, AND *WE’RE* THE ONES THAT ARE WRONG!?!?!?!!! THE SKY is GREEN, EVERYONE!
Oh, you mean that’s stupid, because we know exactly the wavelengths of light that are reflected, and we can demonstrably prove that it is in fact THEIR EYES that are defective since they’re lacking a certain type of cone cell or their cone cells are malfunctioning?! Yeah. That’s what I thought.
For whatever reason who they are doesn’t jive with what they are.
*coughmentalillnesscough*
Since you are a woman and admit you like doing some “masculine” things, does that indicate some kind of dysfunction? How about a man that likes to do “feminine” things?
Nope. I’ve been at peace with my demographic relative to my interests for awhile now. Once again, you’re talking about preferences and interests. Those are subjective things that have no “definitive” quantity to be verified with or weighed against. I know what I enjoy and how I think. I’m not trying to convince others around me of something that is provably false. Same thing with dudes who like to do chick things. My ex was like that. Drove me up the wall with how annoying he was, but not “wrong”. He’s colorblind, too, for what it’s worth. I used to argue with him about what color things were before he joined the Army, as well. Guess who won -that- argument?
Many TG people have said that to deny their transgenderism and cope with their mental anguish, they have tried to be supermasculine or superfeminine. So are they no longer dysfunctional when they do this?
No. Because it’s not about how they should act and what they should like. It’s about them finding peace with what they are, regardless of who they are. That’s why I still insist to you there’s nothing wrong with identifying more with “masculinity” as a female or vice-versa. That’s why there’s such a HUGE difference between a transvestite to me and someone with gender dysphoria. A transvestite can be shrugged off with a “no accounting for taste.” and we’ll both be on our way (even though in my opinion men should thank their lucky stars that all the primping and preening typically expected of women is not usually demanded of them). The other is going to get pissed off at me when I address HIM as a HIM even though HE has insisted HE is a “she” to me.
I’m really an easy-going person, Mary.
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Thank you, ken and Prax.
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Liking predominantly male or female traits or preferences is one thing, imagining you’re actually someone else is a mental dysfunction.
Until pants were invented, just about everyone wore dress-like clothes. Now many women like to “wear the pants in the family”. No problem. Convenience and fashion trends will dictate these changes. (Heck, men who wear kilts are all right with me, too. :) )
Let’s not confuse what we happen to like with who we are like. Gender and species are pretty much set in stone.
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Your welcome, X. I wish I could like many of your comments more than once! You have the Gift of Scrap. Scrappers make positive differences in their circles.
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So say you knew someone for a couple years, you got along with them just fine and thought they were born a man, but found out they were transgender after a couple years. Would you all start referring to him as “she” just out of principle? Even though it had never harmed you or caused any issues whatsoever referring to him as a man? Why would you do that?
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If my brother told me he was really a Martian I’d need some proof. Especially because I’m older than all my siblings. ;)
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So say you knew someone for a couple years, you got along with them just fine and thought they were born a man, but found out they were transgender after a couple years. Would you all start referring to him as “she” just out of principle?
Oh heck yes.
Even though it had never harmed you or caused any issues whatsoever referring to him as a man?
Yep. Personally, I worry more about any significant others SHE might have that were unaware of her situation. I know I’D be livid if someone had lied to me about their gender.
Why would you do that?
I’m not a liar. I also refuse to assist liars in their lying. Even if they’re just lying to themselves.
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Hi X.
I have no doubt TG people are sincere in their belief they are trapped in the wrong body. Can I explain it? No. As I said, there is much about the human brain we don’t understand. If you’re not “buying” it, I respect that. If you think its mental illness, fine. I only pointed out that homosexuality was also viewed as mental illness at one time as well. And autism was caused by ”cold” mothers, and schizophrenia was the result of too early toilet training, and epilepsy was demonic possession. What we “know” changes drastically the more we learn about the human brain, and the more we “know” about the brain the more questions we have.
What I mean about “masculine” activities is that what is feminine and masculine doesn’t confine itself to a certain gender does it? Its who you are, your thought processes, your interests, talents, etc. Maybe they fit what people thought you as “a girl” should do, maybe they didn’t. Friends wanted you to be a nurse, that’s ”for girls” your mind said otherwise. BTW, I have no issue with this, I see it as you being who you are. I liked playing “soldier” too, as well as other such “unfeminine” things as climbing, forever swinging upsidedown on the clothespoles, and I hated it when my mother made me wear white gloves because Jackie Kennedy always did! No lady was dressed without white gloves. Yeah mom, just let me go climb a tree.
In fact there is a difference between a transvestite and a gender dysphoria person, and not just to you. These are two different conditions.
I’m also easy going as well X.
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Hi Hans 9:10PM
I do not view TGs as “imagining” they are someone else. Certainly we have all imagined we were someone or something else. That’s hardly mental instability, unless of course we lose contact with reality.
Yes gender and species may be set in stone, but isn’t your masculinity psychological as well as physical? Like I have said Hans, imagine waking up tomorrow with a set of Dolly Partons. Your reaction? Likely to get them lobbed off as soon as possible. This is not who you are. I’m convinced this is exactly what it is like for the TG.
What makes you psychologically a man? I have no idea, do you? What makes you heterosexual? What makes you talented in a certain area and not another? I have no clue.
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Hi Hans,
Even before pants were invented cross dressing and assuming opposite sex roles was not unheard of. Some cultures simply tolerated it, these people became performers, or they were subject to ridicule. I read of one Native American tribe that, though they found it amusing that a man assumed a woman’s role, tolerated it.
It seems cross dressing, gender dysphoria, and homosexuality have long been part of the human condition and various cultures dealt with it in their own way.
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see, I don’t think I would freak out and chop off my johnson if I woke up with one tomorrow.
I’d probably want to do a little investigation about WHY I had one before doing something so drastic. If I had a genetics test and it turned out that somehow, over the night, I’d actually magically become a man after the bloodwork came back, I’d just have to do the best I could adjusting to my new circumstances. I’d be a man, and I’d make the most of it. I’d “man-up”. I don’t envision anything about who I am changing that drastically. It’d be a lot for my fiance and I to sort out, though. :(
I just don’t understand people who can’t accept the scientific evidence of the world around them and try to replace actuality with likes, wants, or personal preference.
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I can’t see myself ever adjusting or being happy with suddenly having a female body overnight, and I’m not particularly “masculine”, whatever that means. It would always feel wrong to be in a female body, I am quite attached to the body I have thank you very much. I just feel terrible for people who cannot adjust to the bodies they are born into and if their suffering can be eased, then I’m not going to judge them.
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“I’m not a liar. I also refuse to assist liars in their lying. Even if they’re just lying to themselves. ”
Pure silliness, everyone lies about some things. I don’t tell my neighbor I find her unattractive and that her flirting with me annoys me, I don’t tell my other neighbor her new baby looks like an alien to me and is totally not cute at all. We all tell little white lies to get along better in polite society, and referring to someone as “he” because he feels as though he is a man in a woman’s body doesn’t harm you or hurt you, but calling him “she” can hurt him. Doesn’t make any sense to insist on using pronouns that make people feel bad just because. That doesn’t make sense to me at all.
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Hi Jack,
You sum it up very well.
Hi X
Well, I can tell you if I suddenly grew a johnson, it would be gone ASAP or sooner. I’m psychologically and physically a woman and have every intention of staying that way!
I only use those as examples of what the TG person lives with every day, maybe since early childhood.
I can well remember the radical mastectomies that were performed at one time for breast cancer. These surgeries were nothing less than mutilating and thankfully have gone the way of the dinosaurs. I just can’t imagine how terrible this was for a woman, but hey, she’d get over it. She should just be glad to be alive. Yes it is important our bodies match our psyches.
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I’m confused, Mary. Why did the man who thought he was a dog get sent to a mental hospital? Seems rather hateful and bigoted. Shouldn’t you have affirmed him in his trans-species identity?
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You guys are the only people saying “hateful” or “bigoted” btw. No one arguing for the possible legitimacy of transgender people are using those words. Burning a strawman, indeed.
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That would have been a little dangerous, given he was baring his teeth and it had taken 4 firemen to tackle him. Like a transgender person, I would certainly think a trans species person should have extensive counselling. However if the man want to believe he’s a werewolf, just like some people like to mutilate themselves to look like lizards, so be it.
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Mary,
There must be millions of possible ways one’s environment affects one’s life. To a certain extent, we can say, “Whatever floats your boat.” But surgical reconstruction is a bridge too far, whether it’s someone who wants to look exactly like a Barbie doll or “change genders.”
I’ve always wished I was more like 6’2” than 6′ and 1/2″. Most people would say I would be nuts to have my legs broken and lengthened. And they’d be right.
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Hi Hans,
I wish I had answers, I don’t. That’s why I reserve judgment. Is there something going on in the brain we just do not understand? Yes I suppose environment can play a role.
Again, that is your perspective and I respect that, but neither of us look at this from the TG perspective. We can give flippant examples like I have, and maybe they will give us some concept of what the TG person lives with and how they view their bodies in relation to their mind. And maybe they don’t even begin to help us understand the anguish these people endure.
Well, I’d like to look more like my idol Sophia Loren, but since that’s not about to happen I’ll just resign myself to being old and ugly. :) My embarking on a plastic surgery campaign would send everyone I know into fits of laughter. Keep dreaming Mary!
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There have been a couple studies that have shown that MTF transgender people have brains similar to women, rather than men. The evidence isn’t definitive and it’s in its early stages, but it shows that there might be a biological origin to this phenomena.
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so they get buzz cuts, take testosterone and get mastectomies. people are different. i mean some women have facial hair if it weren’t for electrolysis.
I can understand people being transphobic. Transgender people are not transsexuals and they are part of the LGBT.
now these people are not actual Transsexuals, those who were born into the wrong body, and are neurologically and spiritually correct but born with a body defect. A transsexual man, who does not desire pregnancy, is a person who has the soul and neurology of a man but born with the wrong anatomy. A transsexual woman is a person who has the soul and the neurology of a woman but was born with the wrong anatomy. Surgery gives the transsexual man a penis after a hysterectomy and surgery gives a transsexual woman a vagina after an orchiectomy.
The genitalia one was born with does NOT indicate the sex one is neurologically and spiritually. If someone is born with a pens and is wrongly labeled a boy by a doctor, that does not make her a boy. Children as young as 1 1/2 years of age can express their true neurological sex.
Transsexuals are mainstream people born with a birth defect, a terrible birth defect, but one that should get no hate from Christians.
90% of Transsexuals are not gay, as 90% of Cissexuals, those who are not Transsexual, are not gay.
Transsexuals are not transgendered, neither are part of the LGBT Community.
True Transsexuals do not get much talk, which is good, but are at high risk for murder because if a woman is born a boy, she can have herself beat up, maybe killed by an unaccepting boyfriend.
One day, with adult stem cell research using one’s own cells, transsexual men will be able to grow full male reproductive systems and be able to make sperm, and transsexual women will be able to grow full female reproductive systems, and the straight men who TS women are married to will be able to impregnate these awesome individuals who have to live through a hellish life ntil the time comes when one can get the correction one needs for her body to match with her brain.
I pray to Almighty God that science, through adult stem cell research, will be able to make Transsexual woman be able to have babies of her own.
Peace and I Love You,
Alyssa
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There are reasons why you shouldn’t speak loudly against any group of people in a room.
You never know who may be listening.
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““Criticize ideas, not people.””
-Jill Stanek
Thank God for your commenting rules, Jill.
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Yes I suppose environment can play a role.
What about a culture that tells you everything and anything goes? Or tells you through images and words that you are never good enough the way you are.
but one that should get no hate from Christians.
be careful who you insinuate gives out hate; you never know who may be reading. Disagreeing is not hating.
Peace. Love yourself.
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““Criticize ideas, not people.””
-Jill Stanek
Thank God for your commenting rules, Jill.”
The whole premise of this site is to discuss human behavior. Criticizing people’s actions is not equivalent to criticizing people.
“I pray to Almighty God that science, through adult stem cell research, will be able to make Transsexual woman be able to have babies of her own.”
My almighty God got it right already.
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“My almighty God got it right already.”
Okay, can I ask something, honestly not intended to be flippant or disrespectful?
So, God allows birth defects into this world, if he exists. That’s not debatable. Birth defects exist. And I don’t think any of you have a moral problem with surgeries to correct such defects. Also, intersex people exist, and they tend to identify with one gender or the other (but sometimes they identify with neither) and they sometimes have surgery so their genitals align with the gender they identify with. I haven’t heard of people having an issue with intersex people doing this.
So, is it beyond the realm of possiblity that transgender people are kind of in the same boat? For some reason, they were born into the wrong body, they are female but born into a male body or vice versa. You really think that the God who allows birth defects and intersex individuals might not allow this issue to exist as well? And I don’t see how correcting this would be wrong.
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Mary,
I guess it would be useful if we could regenerate like the Doctor!
(I don’t remember if it’s you or Alice who’s acquainted with Doctor Who. For some reason, I sometimes get the two of you mixed up. ;) )
I read it on good Authority that eventually we’ll all go through a regeneration some day.
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““Criticize ideas, not people.””
-Jill Stanek
Thank God for your commenting rules, Jill.
I think that’s what we’re doing here, Alyssa. No hating.
Jack,
I’m no expert on hermaphrodites, but we have either xx or xy chromosomes, and that should dictate any correcting of “birth defects”, I think.
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We all tell little white lies to get along better in polite society…
I guess that’s why I don’t do well in “polite society”.
and referring to someone as “he” because he feels as though he is a man in a woman’s body doesn’t harm you or hurt you, but calling him “she” can hurt him.
Not my problem.
Doesn’t make any sense to insist on using pronouns that make people feel bad just because…*
*…because it’s true. Not hurting feelings is not high on my priority list. I don’t expect other people to pussyfoot around about me in an attempt not to hurt my feelings, either.
That doesn’t make sense to me at all.
And humoring a mentally-ill person in their delusion doesn’t make any sense to me, either. Go figure.
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“I’m no expert on hermaphrodites, but we have either xx or xy chromosomes, and that should dictate any correcting of “birth defects”, I think.”
Intersex, not hermaphrodite. ;) They don’t have xx or xy. But not really my point. What I was getting at, if there is a biological or even environmental reason for these issues, people feeling “wrong” in their assigned birth gender, I don’t see how it’s inherently wrong to correct it. We correct all kinds of different issues. I see no reason why sexual reassignment surgery would be different, or why it is somehow impossible that this could be a legitimate issue that is correctable.
“*…because it’s true. Not hurting feelings is not high on my priority list. I don’t expect other people to pussyfoot around about me in an attempt not to hurt my feelings, either.”
Of course you do! Maybe not “pussyfoot”, but everyone expects (or deserves, even if they have been beaten down enough to not expect it) a level of decency and respect from their fellow humans. If someone thinks something unkind or hurtful about me, I would like them to keep it to themselves if there is no good reason for them to tell me. I don’t like people pointing out certain things that I’m sensitive about, even if they are true. Truth isn’t the final arbitror of human interaction in all circumstances.
What I am trying to get at is that even if you don’t agree with something, sometimes it might be kinder to “humor” someone.
And plus, I don’t know how you can so definitively state something like transgender doesn’t legitimately exist, that it’s a mental illness, when the medical community is quite divided on the causes and reality of the issue, and there exists some evidence that it might be biological at least in part.
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sometimes people are born with xxy or some other unusual combination. It’s VERY, VERY rare, and certainly doesn’t account for every person with gender dysphoric disorder. However, if someone told me they were transgender AND had a reason (beyond brain wiring, as I stated before that’s who you are, not what you are) like the chromosome abnormality, I’d be more willing to accept their premise, since they have an ACTUAL birth defect and a biological gender somewhere between. Those are people who have a reason for things like reconstructive surgery.
I’m not “transphobic”. I’m not scared of these people. I feel sorry for them, because they’re sick, and surgeons and shrinks use them to make thousands upon thousands of dollars. It’s sad. I don’t think it’s right that they trick men into thinking they’re something they aren’t, tricking heterosexual men into homosexual physical encounters. That’s not right. They don’t deserve to be harmed because of that-they’re sick, not malicious-and nothing they do is any sort of excuse for violent behavior against them.
As someone born with an ACTUAL birth defect, I find being placed on par with a bunch of healthy-bodied yet mentally ill people mutilating themselves infuriating, though.
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“sometimes people are born with xxy or some other unusual combination. It’s VERY, VERY rare, and certainly doesn’t account for every person with gender dysphoric disorder. However, if someone told me they were transgender AND had a reason (beyond brain wiring, as I stated before that’s who you are, not what you are) like the chromosome abnormality, I’d be more willing to accept their premise, since they have an ACTUAL birth defect and a biological gender somewhere between. Those are people who have a reason for things like reconstructive surgery.”
Again, I wasn’t saying that the intersex issue causes gender dysphoria, I was using it as an example. And you discount brain wiring, which is rather unscientific of you, in my opinion. If there’s a biological cause for this sense of dysphoria, and the dysphoria can be corrected by surgery, I don’t see an issue with it. Just because you personally don’t think that reason is good enough doesn’t mean it’s not. Like I said, there has been a couple preliminary studies that show that MTF brains look a lot more like female brains than male brains, which could contribute to this feeling of dysphoria. If you took my male brain and plopped it in a female body, I’d be flat out miserable and I doubt I could adjust because I am a male, I don’t belong in a female body.
“I don’t think it’s right that they trick men into thinking they’re something they aren’t, tricking heterosexual men into homosexual physical encounters. That’s not right. They don’t deserve to be harmed because of that-they’re sick, not malicious-and nothing they do is any sort of excuse for violent behavior against them.”
Where are you getting this? I have known a lot of transgender people and I don’t know any that aren’t honest about their status. I’ve been hit on by pre op MTF and all I had to do was tell them it’s not my cup of tea and it’s all good. I don’t know where you get this impresion of trans people sneaking around not being honest with their SOs about what sex they were assigned at birth.
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I don’t come by for a little while and all of this happens? well, have fun everyone, I’m off to bed.
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Of course you do! Maybe not “pussyfoot”, but everyone expects (or deserves, even if they have been beaten down enough to not expect it) a level of decency and respect from their fellow humans. If someone thinks something unkind or hurtful about me, I would like them to keep it to themselves if there is no good reason for them to tell me. I don’t like people pointing out certain things that I’m sensitive about, even if they are true. Truth isn’t the final arbitror of human interaction in all circumstances.
No, I don’t. But I also don’t feel as though I have a right to get indignant about it if someone else does want to point out something that might be hurtful yet true. However, I also don’t think being truthful in all situations is exclusive to being decent and respectful. Being neutral towards other peoples’ feelings isn’t by default indecent or disrespectful. Truth is, for me.
What I am trying to get at is that even if you don’t agree with something, sometimes it might be kinder to “humor” someone.
I can be truthful, decent, and respectful. One thing I do not pretend to be is kind. But I’d rather be truthful than kind, anyway.
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“If there’s a biological cause for this sense of dysphoria, and the dysphoria can be corrected by surgery, I don’t see an issue with it.”
What if the correcting was done on the brain via surgery or prescription drugs?
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Jack,
Who’s to say a male brain that looks like a female’s isn’t an actual defect? Looks can be deceiving, as we all know from this thread!
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“What if the correcting was done on the brain via surgery or prescription drugs?”
So…? I wouldn’t have an issue with either brain surgery, prescription drugs, or bodily reassigning sex as long as it was a patients choice and the options were all safe and effective. It seems that you all would only be cool with the first two. I don’t see why.
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“And you discount brain wiring, which is rather unscientific of you, in my opinion. If there’s a biological cause for this sense of dysphoria, and the dysphoria can be corrected by surgery, I don’t see an issue with it.”
I don’t discount it. I count it as dysfunction. Coming from a family that has a familiarity with things like bipolar disorder, I’m intimately familiar with how messed-up a brain’s wiring can be. And, if a body is one way, and a brain says the body is wrong, it’s not the body that is incorrect, but the brain that is sick. I don’t place much stock in what a brain says when it’s physically proved wrong. I dunno though. Maybe my brother was on to something when he was trying to convince me that our whole family, and maybe even I myself, was involved in some elaborate scheme to kill him. Maybe he was right, and it’s just that my family and friends don’t like me much, so they didn’t send me the memo, I guess. Or maybe he’s just got the brain chemistry of someone who everyone is trying to kill but he’s trapped in the body of someone who is surrounded by family and friends who love and care about him, and wish him no harm.
“Where are you getting this?”
News stories of boys dressed as girls found dead in dumpsters. People humoring THOSE kids sure wasn’t benign kindness.
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That’s what I am saying. It’s a dysfunction. There’s a reason the body and the brain aren’t matching up, and if changing the body is the only way to stop the brain’s suffering and dysphoric feelings I don’t understand why anyone would have an issue with that.
“News stories of boys dressed as girls found dead in dumpsters. People humoring THOSE kids sure wasn’t benign kindness.”
Yes, because no one beats up and murders transgender people who don’t try to sleep with them. Tell that to one of my friends, she was anally raped and beaten because she was a “chick with a d***”, just walking home one day. She didn’t try to trick anyone into sleeping with her, some guys at her school had issues with her gender expression.
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I feel dizzy now.
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There’s a reason the body and the brain aren’t matching up, and if changing the body is the only way to stop the brain’s suffering and dysphoric feelings I don’t understand why anyone would have an issue with that.
Yeah. Because effing up the HEALTHY part of the body to accommodate the MALFUNCTIONING part of the body like, makes total sense and stuff.
Yes, because no one beats up and murders transgender people who don’t try to sleep with them.
Yeah. I guess I should’ve specified the stories, huh? The first one that brought crap like this to my attention was one of a DUDE who, in full female regalia, decided it’d be cool to take a random other dude off the dance floor at a club and give him a hummer in the parking lot. Cuz what could possibly go wrong there.
Unprovoked crap like what happened with your friend is even more messed-up, but people putting themselves in dangerous situations due to their condition with the full blessing of friends and family is just…there’s no excuse for it.
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“The first one that brought crap like this to my attention was one of a DUDE who, in full female regalia, decided it’d be cool to take a random other dude off the dance floor at a club and give him a hummer in the parking lot. Cuz what could possibly go wrong there.”
Well the murderer should be charged with murder. I don’t believe in a “trans panic” defense anymore than I believe in a “gay panic” defense. If the dude found out she was genetically male and she tried to hold him down to sexually assault him, that’s a different story, she should be charged with sexual assault (if she lived).
“Unprovoked crap like what happened with your friend is even more messed-up, but people putting themselves in dangerous situations due to their condition with the full blessing of friends and family is just…there’s no excuse for it. ”
“Put themselves in dangerous situations”… walking home from school? That’s ridiculous, that’s taking the responsibility off the abusers and putting it on people just trying to live their lives. Someone shouldn’t be at risk of being attacked for how they dress or how they identify. That’s like saying I was at fault for getting abused since I didn’t leave home, which I shouldn’t have had to because I was a minor and entitled to live there without being harmed. Just like my friend was entitled to walk down the street without being raped and beaten because she was dressed as a girl and some d-bags don’t think “boys” should wear skirts.
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Comments posted on this blog post are ssome reasons why transsexual people have difficult times living normal lives. The degree of ignorance and insult is enormous. One person even said they would “lie” to a trans person and use the correct pronouns, “knowing” they are “really” the gender they were supposedly born instead of the gender they know they are inside.
Now I know they’re talking about TG people, this TG man has a vagina or this person wouldn’t be able to give birth.
But when people label people who need sex correction surgery as ill or wicked, thatplucks a painful string in some peoples’ hearts.
This blog is supposed to be about stopping abortion, not about bullying eachother. Someone here “accused” xalisae of being a ftm transsexual. Even if this person is transsexual, what difference does it make?
The comments on this blog post are wasting the time of pro lifers who can be saving babies right now.
I wanted to focus on the March or Life today. I can’t be there this year. I wanted to reflect on what a great job you all are doing.
Instead, I have to deal with the pain of people not accepting people for who these people really are.
TG means change gender in the brain but not the body.
TS means you can’t change your brain’s gender, only your body’s sex.
(Plenty of TS women grew up with boyish interests, being tomboys and nothing else just like in the mainstream population, one can be a tomboy yet be neurologically straight female)
(Most TS women usually outgrow it by college and become VERY feminine, even desirable by straight men, most don’t know, but some open minded gentlemen definitely do know.)
Transsexual people are some of the sweetest people you’ll ever meet.
The patience of these people is outstanding, especially those who are waiting for the technology to arrive in order to make their own sperm, or in the case of a woman carry a pregnancy and give birth.
If you want to pick on trans people, transgendered or transsexual (the two are different by the way), this blog is not the place.
We’re supposed to be saving babies together, not tearing eachothers’ souls apart into tiny little pieces.
The blog I am quoting is from a transsexual non TG non LGBT source.
“How to Respect True Transsexuals”
http://tsspecificmovement.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/how-to-respect-true-transsexuals/
Let’s go back to saving babies, okay?
Peace and I love you all,
Alyssa ?
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Well the murderer should be charged with murder. I don’t believe in a “trans panic” defense anymore than I believe in a “gay panic” defense. If the dude found out she was genetically male and she tried to hold him down to sexually assault him, that’s a different story, she should be charged with sexual assault (if she lived).
And I agree with all of that. As I said before, I just won’t humor them. I don’t bare any ill will towards them and don’t want to see them come to harm. That’s part of the reason I think their mental illness should be treated rather than humor it-I think the behaviors their illness instigate create more hazardous situations for them, and humoring it facilitates the negative behaviors.
“Put themselves in dangerous situations”… walking home from school?
No. Picking random dudes up from a club and engaging them in sexual behaviors without telling the person their true gender. THOSE kinds of dangerous situations. Everything you say after this is attacking me for something I never said. It’s really kind of a strawman, Jack. You know I don’t feel that way about people minding their own business being attacked, and that I respect the rights of others to do as they please. It’s their right to dress however they want, it’s their right to mutilate themselves, and it’s my right to address them as their biological gender. And none of those actions deserve violent reactions.
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One person even said they would “lie” to a trans person and use the correct pronouns, “knowing” they are “really” the gender they were supposedly born instead of the gender they know they are inside.
That was me, and I actually said I *wouldn’t* lie to someone who has gender identity disorder. Because I can “know” that I am Napoleon “inside”, but it doesn’t make it so in reality.
But when people label people who need sex correction surgery as ill or wicked, that plucks a painful string in some peoples’ hearts.
Why? Good, intelligent, wonderful people everywhere live their lives dealing with mental illness. As I stated before, my own beloved family members have struggled with it at different points in their lives. There’s nothing shameful about it.
Someone here “accused” xalisae of being a ftm transsexual. Even if this person is transsexual, what difference does it make?
That was Tyler. He’s an anus. Just ignore him.
Instead, I have to deal with the pain of people not accepting people for who these people really are.
I accept people with gender identity disorder for who they really are. They don’t accept THEMSELVES for who they really are.
TG means change gender in the brain but not the body.
Which is something the pros like to call “mental illness”. Thoughts not matching up to reality. That’s not sane.
TS means you can’t change your brain’s gender, only your body’s sex.
No. You really can’t change your body’s sex. You can try. You can try to mutilate yourself into an approximation of the opposite sex, but it’s really just cosmetic. You still are what you are deep down in your genes, and that’s not going to change.
Transsexual people are some of the sweetest people you’ll ever meet.
I can be really nice once you get to know me, too. So?
The patience of these people is outstanding, especially those who are waiting for the technology to arrive in order to make their own sperm, or in the case of a woman carry a pregnancy and give birth.
Sorry, but I don’t enjoy the idea of making Man into their own God, bending Nature to his whim as he sees fit to accommodate his malfunctions. No good will come of it.
If you want to pick on trans people, transgendered or transsexual (the two are different by the way), this blog is not the place.
I don’t want to pick on anyone, and I’m not. However, this blog is not yours. I’ll do as I please until someone with the authority tells me otherwise. Thanks.
We’re supposed to be saving babies together, not tearing eachothers’ souls apart into tiny little pieces.
I don’t believe in souls.
Let’s go back to saving babies, okay?
Okay.
Later, dude.
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“It seems that you all would only be cool with the first two. I don’t see why.” B/c the first two fix the medical problem and the last leaves the defect in place but try to make the body match the sickness in the mind.
“Well the murderer should be charged with murder.” Agreed, of course, and the other should be charged with sexual assault b/c that’s what that kind of deception is. No one here supports violence in any case, especially against someone minding his or her own business. The murderer is more wrong, but the assault is wrong too.
Xalise has otherwise summed it up. If you imagine something in your mind, in what other circumstance do we demand that the rest of society conform to your imagination and declare that it’s not imaginary at all? Of course the delusion feels real to these people – no one is saying they’re pretending to feel this way. But what they feel is not objectively true. These two women are not men. A man is not giving birth. Those boys are being parented by two women. That’s reality.
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