Autopsy photos released of teen who died during “safe and legal” abortion
UPDATE 4p: Marla and Christopher’s autopsy photos are up on page two. Reminder, they are graphic and disturbing. This is a reality of abortion.
Today, the pro-life group Life Dynamics, in cooperation with Operation Rescue and Priests for Life, will release autopsy photos of 18-yr-old Marla Cardamone, who died following a “safe and legal” abortion, along with her 17-to-19-wk-old preborn baby, Christopher Michael, whose photo will also be displayed.
The photos and Marla’s story will be posted at the new website, SafeAndLegal.com, which will be operational later today.
I will also post these tragic photos, which I have seen, when they come online.
The autopsy photos are published with the blessing and encouragement of Marla’s family, who want the world to know that supposedly “safe and legal” abortions kill mothers as well as their children.
Marla’s mother Deborah, pictured left with her daughter in the last photo taken of Marla alive, was interviewed for this month’s edition of Life Talk, available now. I met this dear women when we taped the show in December.
Marla died of a fast-moving blood infection less than a day after a urea-instillation, late-term abortion was begun at Magee-Womens Hospital in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Because the abortion was never completed, Marla’s baby was still inside her when she died.
Life Dynamics’ Mark Crutcher explains in a new video the rationale behind releasing Marla’s autopsy photos and how you can get brochures to distribute:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/FulLSHVZdi4[/youtube]
Click to enlarge…
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
God have mercy on her and those that did this to her and her child. And, God help us end this nightmare.
Marla didn’t want the abortion. She was browbeaten into it by a social worker at Magee Women’s Hospital. Deborah told me, “The last two weeks of her life, all she did was cry.”
How brave of Marla’s mother. Perhaps this will show how these procedures are not “safe” in any way, shape or form. This is so sad I can hardly stand it. If that social worker was responsible, may she be haunted by the knowledge and images of what has happened at her coersion. Forgiveness is possible . . . . Perhaps she will realize what she’s responsible for and turn to God. Only He can help her.
So when are you going to show photos of the women who die when things go wrong in childbirth? After all, that occurs at a higher rate. Especially when they are coerced into continuing a dangerous pregnancy.
Reality, deaths from abortion complications are not recorded as related to abortion. Your claim is invalid.
Reality! You inspired a blog post of mine!
http://realchoice.blogspot.kr/2008/12/unmistakable-undeniable-clear-impact-of.html
As for the way you’re always bringing up maternal mortality, I addressed that here (http://realchoice.blogspot.kr/2006/12/is-childbirth-safety-even-relevant.html) and I’ll summarize it:
When a woman dies from a legal abortion, abortion apologists come out of the woodwork simpering, “Well, women die in childbirth all the time! Why not worry about them!” But the fact remains that there is no amount of addressing childbirth safety that will change how abortions are performed. No matter what we do about how prenatal care is provided, or what equipment is available in delivery rooms, and so forth, none of this will change what goes on in abortion clinics, just as putting airbags in cars doesn’t make airline travel safer.
By all means, yes, let’s address childbirth mortality. Let’s make better prenatal care available. Let’s educate women about the importance of good nutrition before and during pregnancy. Let’s develop protocols for referring high-risk women to specialists. Let’s improve all aspects of obstetric care, for the better health and safety of mothers and babies. Or rather, let’s continue to do so; after all, maternal mortality fell 90% in the United States in the 20th Century — with most of that progress being made long before abortion was decriminalized. And women who resorted to abortion reaped the benefits of these as well. Helping women to be healthier, and addressing the remaining health concerns surrounding some women’s pregnancies, are very laudable pursuits. Yes, by all means let’s pursue them.
But let’s not for a minute forget that none of this will change a thing about abortion practice.
If the abortion lobby is serious about their often chanted mantra of “safe and legal,” they’d do something to address “safe” other than obsessing with “legal.” They’d stop obsessing about prolife pregnancy centers and instead be vigilant about the real risks that women contemplating abortion will end up in the hands of somebody like Kermit Gosnell. They’d make recommendations about preventing further mishaps. They would, in short, take abortion safety as seriously as they take abortion legality.
You’ve got unbiased evidence for that then CC?
Nice little rant CD, doesn’t change the fact that abortion is safer than delivery, particularly in high risk pregnancies.
Will this do, Reality?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-16/news/ct-met-abortion-reporting-20110615_1_abortion-providers-fewer-abortions-national-abortion-federation
Didn’t mean to like Reality’s post and it upped it 2 times. Meant to hit “like” for someone else. Good grief REality, you can look at these photos and not express any remorse for what happened to Marla and her baby? All you can do is say “Childbirth is more dangerous!” 6 million women give birth a year Reality. Where are all these deaths? Did you know having an abortion makes future pregnancies and births riskier? Anyone else care to find the link for that? I’m too lazy to do it for Reality.
I don’t see any actual data or evidence in the piece Navi, it sounds more like speculation and rumour. And who exactly is the “national research group” mentioned?
All cases of women dying through either childbirth or abortion are extremely sad Sydney M, each and every time. But why should I feel ‘remorse’? Should I feel remorse whenever a woman dies in childbirth? Do you?
Christina says: Marla didn’t want the abortion. She was browbeaten into it by a social worker at Magee Women’s Hospital. Deborah told me, “The last two weeks of her life, all she did was cry.”
I wonder how many other women who die of botched abortions didn’t want them. It seems that usually when I hear of a woman who dies of a “safe and legal” botched abortion, she has pro-life feelings and/or is real hesitant to get the abortion. She ends up succumbing to intense pressure to abort (usually from the people at the clinic who selling her the abortion), and then she ends up dead. Often these women are minorities, or if they’re white, they have handicaps.
It almost makes me wonder if there is a eugenic thing going on here, to get rid of minorities and handicapped women. There could also be a thing of punishing women who desparately don’t want to abort, because if they submit to the pressure to abort, they seem to have a higher chance of dying of their abortion.
childbirth is beautiful and safe! the medical arena has told us lies about pregnancy and child birth causing a very dangerous fear in women, and a great majority of women are so unhealthy because of modern diet, they are at risk of child birth complications.
Reality, childbirth is the natural conclusion of pregnancy. Abortion is not. Therefore I would feel sad if a woman died in childbirth but not remorse. However, abortion is not a natural outcome of pregnancy. I’m not asking you to feel remorse for miscarriages which are also natural. But I would think you would feel remorse that woman died in an unnatural procedure that you support. Also, I know you rail against any kind of legislation that would make these clinics conform to basic safety standards. You and your cronies want non doctors to be able to do abortions as well. So when women die from shoddy care during an unnatural procedure you support in a clinic you defend against any kind of oversight…yes, you should feel remorse.
Btw, does anyone know what a urea instillation abortion is? I know what an instillation abortion is but aren’t they normally saline? Does the urea poison the baby as well?
Yep. Social workers, they’re just helpers of the downtrodden, they are. 9_9
Heart surgery isn’t natural. Neither are various cancer treatments. Nor plastic surgery.
I support peoples’ right to avail themselves of these procedures.
Should I feel remorse when things go wrong and they die?
“I know you rail against any kind of legislation that would make these clinics conform to basic safety standards. You and your cronies want non doctors to be able to do abortions as well. ” – not true, overblown rhetoric yet again. I believe all abortions should be conducted in hospitals, by doctors. But the cawing and meddling by anti-choicers makes that difficult to establish. So its more appropriate that you should feel remorse because of the way you drive the abortion services industry to function.
I gave a couple of your comments a ‘like’, balance don’t you know ;-)
Okay Reality, lol. Thanks.
I would say no I don’t feel remorse over heart surgery because it isn’t a moral issue. If we were killing prisoners for their hearts and then the recipient of the dead prisoner’s heart also died…and I supported the criminal heart program…then yes, i’d feel remorse.
But what do you think Reality when you see that fully formed baby? What did you feel viewing that picture? That baby was killed. Does that bother you at all?
Let’s try to stay on topic for a minute here, Reality. Your question asking why aren’t we posting the photos of women who’ve died in childbirth is a red herring (and separate issue) ment to detract and avoid the issue at hand: abortion and safety and mortality. This woman died from a supposidly “safe and legal” abortion, Reality. What are you and other pro-choicers doing to minimalize abortion risks and make abortions safer?
I don’t think I would ever release my daughter’s autopsy photos like this if the unthinkable happened and she died like this. Or at least throw a blanket over her, or something.
I am so sad for her and that baby.
Reality wrote:
“So its more appropriate that you should feel remorse because of the way you drive the abortion services industry to function.”
So physicians, such as Kermit Gosnell, who’ve consciously chosen to violate health codes and even break the law are merely victim’s of circumstance and hold no responsibility for their actions and behaviors, then?
yes, Reality, we would love to hear your answer to Sydney’s question..Do you feel anything at all for the baby that was murdered? Clearly, it is a baby. Do you deny that too?
“That baby was killed. Does that bother you at all?” – contrary to what some certain individuals here cry, I do not “advocate, promote and celebrate the killing of babies up until and on their due dates”, nor do I “CHEER and CELEBRATE when women abort!”
It’s not nice to see. Many things aren’t nice to see. That’s life. You choose to see it as a ‘baby’, I see it as a fetus which is developing towards becoming a baby.
The more anti-choicers try to push the ‘personhood’ status claim closer and closer to the point of conception, the more so-called evidence and subjective theories you promote, the more convinced I become that ‘personhood’ may well be achieved at the time where self-recognition in a mirror is reached.
“Your question asking why aren’t we posting the photos of women who’ve died in childbirth is a red herring (and separate issue) ment to detract and avoid the issue at hand: abortion and safety and mortality” – no its not. Women die from ‘safe and legal’ childbirth when something goes wrong too. And that rate is higher than for abortion.
“So physicians, such as Kermit Gosnell…..are merely victim’s of circumstance and hold no responsibility for their conscious actions and behaviors, then?” – if people have chosen to act illegally then they carry responsibility. But the anti-choice movement contributes to the situations from which such events emerge.
Reality,
This is what you support and applaud and encourage and defend.
Own it.
Jack,
I know it is hard to understand but the bigger picture is forcing BIG ABORTION to acknowledge their negligence and that the world may know the TRUTH.
Abortion is NEVER safe. Not for the mother and not for the baby.
“I know it is hard to understand but the bigger picture is forcing BIG ABORTION to acknowledge their negligence and that the world may know the TRUTH.”
Well yeah I get that, and I respect the parent’s rights to use their daughter’s photos for this purpose. I just wouldn’t do it myself. And I think that just out of respect someone could have thrown a blanket over her midsection before she went on the internet. Just my opinion. If I died or was murdered or something I wouldn’t want my naked body used even for a good cause. It just seems disrespectful. But I’m not her family so it’s not my call of course, just not how I would choose to bring attention to her death.
“I believe all abortions should be conducted in hospitals, by doctors. But the cawing and meddling by anti-choicers makes that difficult to establish. So its more appropriate that you should feel remorse because of the way you drive the abortion services industry to function.”
This is nonsense. Abortionists are the scum of the medical community, which is why no one wants to become one or even be associated with one. It we had an abortionist in our hospital, s/he would definitely be ostracized. The people who become abortionists tend to not be bright or talented enough to save lives, so they make their money ending lives instead. Even the obnoxiously loud pro-choice students don’t want to become abortionists…the thought of working your butt off to become a doctor, and then wasting all that by sucking out fetuses for a living is not terribly appealing.
The pro-choice author Carole Joffe stated, “it is the medical community itself, and not Operation Rescue, that bears chief responsibility for the present marginalization of abortion provision.”
Come on Reality,
Your side has spent the past 50 years parading the picture of the dead Gerri Santoro. This tragic woman has been your favorite poster child and your side still can’t give this woman or her family any dignity or peace. I believe the favorite argument of your side was that if abortion was legal, this poor woman wouldn’t have died on the bathroom floor. Well what about Marla’s death picture? Abortion is legal!
When Becky Bell died of an alleged illegal abortion, which turned out to be bogus, again your side went through the death throes. How wonderful to have a martyr for the cause!
Spare us your double standards Reality. You folks like shocking pictures and sob stories, well here’s one. You know as well as I that if Marla had died from an illegal abortion, you and your side would be howling like banshees.
Yep, it’s pro-lifers’ fault that a couple of abortion doctors put have stored dead fetuses in refrigerators and ate them for lunch. It’s pro-lifers’ fault that the roof leaked in several places in a Muskegon abortion center and that the place was a fire hazard. It’s prolifers’ fault when abortion staff doesn’t use sterile tools or clean up the blood. And of course, it is prolifers’ fault that Kermit Gosnell did all those disgusting and barbaric things in his abortion center.
I’ll echo Ladybug’s question: “Reality. What are you and other pro-choicers doing to minimalize abortion risks and make abortions safer?”
Treating people like Marla Cardamone and Tonya Reeves as collateral damage in your drive to maintain access to abortion services strikes me as cold and calculating.
“support and applaud and encourage and defend” – while you persist with such inaccurate exaggerations all the things you say are tarred with the same brush, your claims devalued, your ‘witness’ ignored.
Hi SM,
You are so right about abortionists. Yes they are tolerated, and even a pregnant mistress or two is sent by her doctor lover to be discreetly handled. However they are very much looked down on. Its like the drug dealer. Sure no one wants to tolerate or acknowledge him, but use some of his drugs, sure.
No amount of lipstick is going to make a pig look good.
Hm, I clicked on the ‘cross out’ button to apply to ‘applaud’ and ‘encourage’ as those are the words I was referring to. I do ‘support’ and ‘defend’ womens’ right to choose.
Hi Barb 9:31PM
Now come on, you’re talking about the days when abortion was illegal and drunks, perverts, dengenerates, drug addicts, and lowlifes ran the abortion trade, right? When abortion became legal, this collection of human debris was put out of business once and for all.
“I’ll echo Ladybug’s question: “Reality. What are you and other pro-choicers doing to minimalize abortion risks and make abortions safer?” – everything I can to minimise the interference and influence of the anti-choice movement. Once unburdened and no longer ostracised by extremists the industry will be much enhanced.
“a pregnant mistress or two is sent by her doctor lover to be discreetly handled” – what, like Dr. Scott DesJarlais did?
Attention everybody. My 9 month old BABY is not a PERSON. He looks in the mirror and has no concept that that is HIM. Half the time he is totally disinterested and the other half he gets mad because he thinks I’m holding another baby besides him. So I could clearly kill him tonight and Reality would not shed a tear (nor would he applaud or cheer it) he would just shrug and say that sometimes thats just life (the irony of his statement is not lost on me. Yes, that was life Reality. A life that was killed) and some things are just not nice to see.
In the morning I always look in the mirror with no self-recognition. I look tired, old and fat. That can’t be me. So clearly I am not a person until I’ve had a shower and some coffee.
No Reality…ALL humans are PERSONS. To say otherwise is what the nazis and white slave owners endorsed.
Reality,
Yep, like he did, disgusting hypocrite and control freak.
Now Reality, what about your side spending the past 50 years making Gerri Santoro you favorite poster child?
“wonder how many other women who die of botched abortions didn’t want them. It seems that usually when I hear of a woman who dies of a “safe and legal” botched abortion, she has pro-life feelings and/or is real hesitant to get the abortion. She ends up succumbing to intense pressure to abort (usually from the people at the clinic who selling her the abortion),”
Sweet Marmot – It does seem that way, doesn’t it? Unfortunately, I wonder if it’s just because that describes most women who end up with abortions.
This is what abortion looks like. And it may make useful waves, but I agree with Jack on the humble request that if I should die doing something I shouldn’t have been doing, learn from my mistake but please cover me up a bit.
“In the morning I always look in the mirror with no self-recognition. I look tired, old and fat. That can’t be me. So clearly I am not a person until I’ve had a shower and some coffee.’ – heh heh, I know how you feel darling, sometimes! The thing is though, you do have self-recognition but it is cloaked in denial. And you are a person before a shower and coffee, you just don’t quite feel like the person you want to be. What you have said is a really good example that you have cognition, that which makes a ‘person’.
“My 9 month old BABY” – is that 9 months after birth or is he brand new out of the womb right now this very minute? You’ll need to clarify because surely if he hasn’t just been delivered he would be 18 months old, right? Or so I keep being told.
“ALL humans are PERSONS. To say otherwise is what the nazis and white slave owners endorsed.” – no, not all ‘humans’ are persons. To say otherwise is to deny the scientific facts. The nazis and slave owners (black ones too?) tried to claim that people who are persons were not so.
“what about your side spending the past 50 years making Gerri Santoro you favorite poster child?” – isn’t it ironic that I’ve only ever seen the image on anti-choice sites! It’s not an image or name I’ve ever used or mentioned.
“no, not all ‘humans’ are persons. To say otherwise is to deny the scientific facts. The nazis and slave owners (black ones too?) tried to claim that people who are persons were not so. ”
Pro-choicers keep telling me that whether someone is a person or not depends on philosophy, not science. You saying the opposite? What gives, man?
Sydney,
Don’t fret about your accidental “like” of Reality’s comment. The extra “like” was from some misguided soul while you were reading the page. ;)
Reality,
Well you better look a little harder. I first saw it on TV some years ago, shown by some abortion clinic owner. Also, check out google. Ms Santoro has been quite popular as a poster child for your side.
“depends on philosophy, not science. You saying the opposite? What gives, man?” – good question Jack. Philosophers themselves argue over whether philosophy is a science! Perhaps philosophy defines the parameters and science determines whether they are met.
“The extra “like” was from some misguided soul while you were reading the page.” – oh no, you’re not calling Sydney M schizophrenic are you Hans ;-)
“Well you better look a little harder” – why? It’s only a small part of the argument for choice and I can’t say I see it used except when the anti-choicers bleat about pro-choicers citing what happens when abortion is illegal. There are better examples that can be used.
This woman is no victim of abortion. She chose her actions. The only people I every feel sorry for are the family members who didn’t “choose” to lose their mother, sister, daughter from an abortion. I feel sorry for the American people who don’t have the choice to opt out of sending their tax dollars to the abortion industry because the pro-abortion idiots want to somehow validate themselves by forcing people to support an industry that destroys life. Whether this woman was pressured into it or not…she made a choice to kill. She could have just as easily walked out of there and got a second opinion. Why didn’t she? It might not have ever even mattered if abortion was legal in this country or not…there will always be a Marla that chooses to kill her kid. Some clueless sucker that walks into a clinic and takes a chance that everything will be fine both physically and emotionally. And this whole “choice” thing that pro aborts place on such a high pedistal is an illusion. It’s an illusion for suckers. You DON’T have a choice really. Your choice is contingent on someone else agreeing to actually perform the abortion on you. What if NO ONE wants to do abortions anymore? What if they “choose” to not be involved in any of it? I really do think that day is coming…and nothing makes me happier. Personally, i would much rather our society invest more into education and safety for birth mothers. Raise the quality bar for caring for those ladies. Let the suckers fester in the undignified consequences of their choice. I’ve seen our side try desperately to save these women and their babies…only to be met with stubborn rejection. They are not victims….they’re suckers. The only ones who are victims are their families and they only become relevant after the patient dies.
Rachel, I’ve met probably twenty or so women all together who have shared with me that they have had an abortion, and I can only think of a few who felt like they had any real choice in the matter. My sample might be skewed because these are mostly women I met when I was homeless, but these women were pretty much either berated by social workers, forced by their pimps, or were simply homeless, hungry, and addicted to crack and felt that it would be impossible for them to raise a baby. I don’t see how anyone wouldn’t be able to empathize with a sixteen-year-old girl forced to abort by her pimp (who probably got ahold of her when she was 12 or 13), or some junkie who is told by literally everyone in authority that she would be a terrible mother, she wouldn’t be able to clean up for her baby, or that no one wanted her addicted baby (if she was thinking about adoption). It’s pretty heartless to assume that people aren’t pressured, even if not all of them are.
“The extra “like” was from some misguided soul while you were reading the page.” – oh no, you’re not calling Sydney M schizophrenic are you Hans
Not at all, Realite’. It took me a long while to realize that I wasn’t giving extra likes, but that the likes total were refreshed after my slow reading.
So that was one accidental one from Sydney plus another from some poor misguided soul. ;)
I keep forgetting to italicize quotes. Now it looks doubly as unreadable as your style of quoting and answering so close together. Almost as bad as one-page paragraphs. ;)
Jack,
Unless you are born with some kind of mental inability to make a choice to take care of yourself, i absolutely do not have pity for you. Life is all about survival. You can make choices to survive obstacles in life, or you can choose not to. I don’t “assume” that people are not pressured. I KNOW they are. But to be suckered into your own destruction, it requires a lie. A lie that says there is no hope for you or your unborn baby. A lie that says you’re unfit to be a parent…or that you or your baby will never find happiness through adoption. A lie that says you’re bound to the whims of your pimp for life…that you’ll never have freedom. Or that he’ll never face justice. I’ve seen this desperation before…but there is always a choice. The only difference is in the degree of difficulty in that choice. in the end, we can try to talk some sense into you. We can make attempt after attempt to pass laws to protect women from unsafe practices in the abortion industry. We can do all of these things but it all comes down to your choice to either kill your baby or not…and the choice of the abortion clinic to comply with basic safety measures or not. I realize that i’m sounding harsh…but abortion IS HARSH. Real consequences for poor decisions don’t give about your background or the level of difficultly of the decision you made. Real consequences don’t care that you made your choice based off of emotions rather than weighing the facts. They happen and they don’t discriminate. How long have we been seeing these dead women? Dead from abortion. They will always be with us because as the saying goes “there is a sucker born every day”. We cannot protect them…we cannot help them if they don’t want our help.
comment edited by mod
Rachel,
Are you the kind of person who sees a story about a junkie dying and thinks “oh well, he/she deserved it for not being able to kick addiction”? Or a person in an abusive marriage who gets shot, “well, too bad but it’s her/his fault for not getting out soon enough”? Just because consequences of actions are harsh doesn’t mean that we need to be, especially towards people who need help. Insulting people who didn’t live up to your standards of personal strength and responsibility doesn’t help this at all. People who are ashamed of their choices aren’t going to seek help from the people they feel shamed by. That’s why I hated religious groups who tried to help the homeless for the longest time, because I listened to the minority of hateful loudmouths instead of realizing there were a ton of good and decent people who could have helped me in the situations I was in. If the pro-life movement gives the overall impression of “too bad, so sad, you’re dead” to these kind of cases I can’t see us reducing them at all. We need to be a place where people in crisis can come to (that might be why they call them Crisis Pregnancy Centers ;)) and not feel shamed and hurt. Of course there will always be those who decide not to reach out, for various reasons you know nothing about, but that doesn’t mean they deserve no pity and mourning, or that they deserve to be mocked in death.
I just have to point out that any death of a woman during pregnancy or postpartum is labeled a maternal death even if her death was for reasons unrelated to pregnancy or childbirth. The same is not true for abortion related deaths. The cause of death on the death certificate may say pneumonia, sepsis, suicide, hemorrhage, whatever, and nothing about abortion as the precipitating event. Since abortionists quickly pass off their patients, another treating physician may not even be aware of her full medical history. The next of kin may be unaware of the abortion, or it may be left off of the death certificate to spare the family from scandal. Finally, not all deaths receive an autopsy by a qualified medical examiner. Bottom line is abortion deaths are under-reported.
Rachel,
Might I suggest before you come here and make assumptions and type away about post abortive women that you understand that there just MIGHT be some that come here regularly?
Myself included.
The condemnation from other “prolifers” is what kept me silent for so many years.
We need the same grace you would expect for yourself.
Shame on you!!!
I need you to stop and ask yourself “WHY AM I SO ANGRY?” It is certainly misdirected.
PS There is no swearing allowed here so I edited your comment.
Thank you Jack!!
Always there to stand up for others. Always there to seek justice.
God bless you!!
Rachel,
Homework for you.
http://theunchoice.org
Why are they calling abortion The UnChoice?
Also please read the thousands of stories from the Silent No More suckers.
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/index.aspx
Rachel, I used to feel very much the way you feel now. And you are right to be angry over abortion and you are right that sometimes people choose to sin and that sin has dreadful consequences that we never intended. But because this girl made a terrible choice and paid with her life (and her son’s life) does that mean we don’t mourn her? That we don’t grieve that her life was cut short? That we don’t demand justice for her and her son?
Carla is my friend and she and I have gone round and round on this. I won’t lie and say I see things exactly the way she does but then she and I have had different life experiences that have shaped us. But she has helped me feel empathy for women who choose abortion. People sin. We ALL sin. We should be angry at the Father of lies and the human condition. When I see these slaughtered children I get angry. But I know my anger shouldn’t be directed at the women. My anger isn’t even directed at the abortionists and clinic workers anymore. They are all deceived. And you’re right about the lie. They’ve all bought the lie! They’re slaves to it. Being loving to post-abortive women doesn’t mean you condone what they did. Being loving to clinic workers doesn’t mean you condone what they do.
Have you ever read Norma McCorvey’s book? She was Roe from Roe v Wade. She was “Won By Love”. Always remember that. God loves other people through us. We can condemn abortion without condemning those who choose abortion. It has taken me a long long time to learn this. And sometimes I have to pray for God to show me how to love these women when I see them going into the clinic laughing. Laughing as they go to kill their baby. It does make me angry. Abortion makes me angry and I’m glad it makes you angry too! But remember our enemy is not the moms. It’s not even the clinic workers. Our enemy is Satan who hates mankind and does all he can to destroy souls. Not sure if you’re a Christian or not so maybe what I’m saying seems like hogwash to you. But just remember, we don’t help women heal by condemning them. We don’t entice clinic workers to leave their jobs by hating them.
Okay, I’m rambling so I’ll stop. I just wanted you to know I hear what you’re saying and I hope you can hear what we’re saying as well.
I love you Sydney.
Rachel,
I am praying for you.
I don’t see any actual data or evidence in the piece Navi, it sounds more like speculation and rumour.
Well, the piece is supposed to be about the available data being incomplete. And it seems well-researched and better than most of the stuff that you cite in these discussions. It’s also from an unbiased source, as you requested.
And who exactly is the “national research group” mentioned?
That would be the Alan Guttmacher Institute, generally considered one of the best sources of data on this subject (though they are not without their faults) especially by supporters of legalized abortion. If it’s good enough for Guttmacher, why isn’t it good enough for you?
Sydney M says:
January 9, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Btw, does anyone know what a urea instillation abortion is? I know what an instillation abortion is but aren’t they normally saline? Does the urea poison the baby as well?
(Denise) Instillation abortion can use saline, urea, or other chemicals. They function similarly. The chemical causes the fetal heart to stop beating and the pregnant female to go into premature labor.
The proper and safe treatment for a high-risk pregnancy is almost always a C-section, which delivers a live baby.
Abortion is more dangerous than C-section, and always kills the baby. Abortion is almost never done because the pregnancy is risky; abortion is always done because someone wants a dead baby.
Abortion is always an elective procedure. There is no medical condition that indicates abortion.
Solutions:
1) Talk clearly about the dangers of abortion. It ain’t as safe as the abortion sellers tell you it is.
2) Provide options to women, so they don’t feel desperate and trapped into a “choice” that they don’t want.
I think it would be helpful to explain why Marla looks the way she does in the autopsy photos. That is, what exactly was it about the abortion that caused her death? What procedure was used and what went wrong with it? Why is she so swollen and bruised? Yes, the photos are awful and need to be shown, but there also needs to be some medical documentation in order to substantiate the need to show these.
79% were not informed about alternatives.1
(Denise) There is only one alternative to having an abortion: NOT having an abortion.
Wow Denise.
The alternative to not being informed about alternatives is INFORMING WOMEN ABOUT ALTERNATIVES.
Little late for all of us post abortive women isn’t it?
And I just broke my own little rule of NEVER responding to you. :(
I’m not angry…i’m just not moved with pity. No one was ever moved with pity for the death of my older sister at the hands of an abortionist. No one has been moved with pity for the unborn child of my best friend who died at the hands of an abortionist. You think i’m somehow lacking in love for women who are struggling with that decision? I’m not. All i’m saying is that at some point you have a choice to make…and it’s not our job to soften the consequences of your poor choice. It’s not our place to make sure you’re getting an abortion in a clean sterile environment any more than its our job to make sure you shoot yourself in the right part of your head to ensure a successful suicide. I’ll always be there to help and show love and compassion to anyone on the fence. I wont hold your sins over your head if you somehow come to realize the fact that you took an innocent baby’s life. It’s not my place to judge you…but also not my place to see you as an innocent victim. But if you want to flip me off, call me a religious nut when you don’t even know me, and walk into that clinic and kill your baby, knock yourself out. Don’t expect me to grieve for you.
I am sorry that your older sister and your niece or nephew died in an abortion.
That is truly horrible. Your grief must be very difficult to bear.
I hope the abortionist has been held accountable as the one who ended their lives.
I will continue to pray for you.
And aborted babies matter to me. Every single one. Why? Because I know the good Lord above takes them to be with Him.
I will see my daughter again and for that reason I grieve with hope and it makes living with my abortion regret a little easier because I will see my girl one day.
Every single picture of every aborted baby I grieve over. I have sobbed over my computer and memorized their little faces, their dark hair. I have attended memorial services for aborted children and honored them and listened to post abortive mothers name them and speak of their love for them.
I’m sorry, but with people like Megan in the world, I can understand why there are people like Rachel, too.
Thank you for the prayers. I’ll pray for you too. I’m glad you’re on the right side of the fence now. It’s a shame more women aren’t. My best friend who had the abortion desperately wanted me to support her decision. I went to pregnancy centers for her, i rounded up people for her to speak with privately, i stayed up late trying to talk sense into her, i gave her video pamplets, prayers…anything i could think of. I had masses said for her, hundreds if not thousands of people in different states praying. I’ve never suffered from such a lack of sleep. Never cried like that…every single day. And when i did sleep i had nightmares. I never have nightmares…ever. In the end she made her choice and called up a mutual friends who herself had an abortion years before. That girl drove my best friend to the clinic and it was over. But it is not over. The shaddow of a dead child haunts our friendship. I live with the guilt that i didn’t do enough. There is nothing living on this earth more deadly than a pro abortion woman. Maybe one day i’ll be able to look at one of them and think to myself “no…you dont deserve to suffer the consequences of your actions as you lay on that table and willingly kill your child.” But i’m not there.
Hi Rachel,
I appreciate your brutal honesty. I really do.
You did the best you could. You did everything in your power to do. Just as I do. Some women choose life. I have been a part of that. Some women still go through with the abortion and I wait for them. Wait until they come to me struggling and in pain and saying, “I didn’t know.”
There is help and healing after abortion. We pass through the various stages of grief after abortion at different times and in different ways(drinking, promiscuity, suicidal thoughts, rage)and many of us FINALLY reach out for help. We reach out to the post abortive women that offer what we need.
http://rachelsvineyard.org
There is hope. The roommate that drove me to my abortion? The time she spent in that mill waiting for me changed her forever. She now is the Director of a Pregnancy Care Center and saves lives every single day.
I wish you peace Rachel. Truly.
PS Some of the most passionate prolifers I know are post abortive women who know the lifelong pain of regret. I am proud to call them sisters and friends and we would do anything help women see that abortion never heals, never solves a thing. One dead. One wounded.
Carla says:
January 10, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Wow Denise.
The alternative to not being informed about alternatives is INFORMING WOMEN ABOUT ALTERNATIVES.
(Denise) You carry to term or you don’t.
As I’ve said, I believe all abortion seeking females should be forced to know what the embryo or fetus looks like at their stage of pregnancy. I think many would not abort if they knew.
“There is nothing living on this earth more deadly than a pro abortion woman.”
Powerful statement Rachel. I’m not sure if it’s true or not but it is compelling.
I just wanted to commend you for trying to save your friend from abortion trauma and her child from the mass murdering, child-killing “doctor”.
God gave all of us a free will and sometimes we make good choices, sometimes poor choices, and sometimes horrific choices. You nailed it when you said she bought a lie.
All we can do is our best to stand for and preach the Truth, and implore others to consider carefully the consequences of their actions.
Reality 10:47PM
Can’t see it or just don’t want to see it?
I didn’t have a comment at 10:47pm.
Did you mean my 10:27pm comment?
Or my 10:57pm comment?
Rachel,
From your picture you seem quite young, at least by MY standards.
I can write a book on bad choices. I can look back on terrible decisions. I can look back on being judgmental and how this was so hurtful. I can also look back and realize that life is about living and learning. Its about terrible mistakes, its about what we wish we could undo and never can. My heart goes out to you that your sister made a terrible choice, and paid with her life and that of her child.
Would your sister want you this angry? Or would she say Rachel, understand these women need your compassion and help. Help any and every woman you can and don’t torment yourself over those you can’t. Imagine that every desperate pregnant woman you meet is me, because in a sense she is.
All I can do is tell people such as yourself that I thought the same. Stupid people, terrible people, they deserved what they got. They made their decisions! Until I made some of the same bad ones or worse.
I can only advise Rachel that you listen and learn from others. People like Carla, Jack, myself, and others on this blog. We all feel deeply for your loss. I can’t understand what you feel, as I can’t understand how the family of a murder victim feels. But our hearts go out to you and to others who suffer the senseless loss of a loved one. We are all deeply moved by your loss.
Please remember that the anger and anguish of Marla’s mother and family is no less than yours. Yet she turns her grief and anger into something positive, to hopefully spare others her anguish and the senseless loss of life. I would encourage you Rachel to seriously consider what your sister would ask you to do, then do it.
Reality,
Typo. 10:57PM,
Hi Carla 8:40am
One of many reasons I respect Jack as well. Always shoots straight from the hip, has an intelligent argument, and you never have to wonder what he’s thinking! Take him or leave him, it doesn’t matter to him.
“There is nothing living on this earth more deadly than a pro abortion woman”
Yup. They got nothing on serial killers and totalitarian dictators, etc.
Sometimes people scare me with their ridiculousness.
Thank you Mary and Carla.
Ah, that one Mary.
The one where I said “I can’t say I see it used except when the anti-choicers bleat…”?
So how exactly does your question “Can’t see it or just don’t want to see it?” apply to my words?
And btw I am really, really sorry for your loss Rachel.
Actually Jack, her statement is true. PRo-abortion people (men and women) have killed more on this planet than all dictators combined. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot…they killed millions upon millions but more souls have been sent into eternity by abortion than all of them combined.
Thank you. Just to clarify, my sister was aborted 8 years before I was born. I’ve spent my entire life seeing the emotional devistation abortion has left. Knowing that someone in your own family died in such a way…never to even be laid to rest with the dignity and respect we all deserve. And we have a President, leaders in Washington, people on this thread who feel like my sister wasn’t even a person. She was…and she died needlessly.
Reality,
Isn’t it obvious? Gerri’s death pic has been exploited for years by your side. Do a little googling and you will see it for yourself. Assuming of course you want to see it.
Your question seems rather moot Mary. Can you explain why you are asking it?
Hi Rachel,
I won’t patronize you by saying I know your anguish and anger, I don’t. I can only say that like Marla, your sister’s senseless death can be turned into something positive. What better way to honor her memory than to do exactly what you know she would want you to do, reach out to pregnant women in need. Is the a CPC center you could volunteer at? How about a local shelter for mothers and children. Could they use volunteers and financial assistance? Is there a single mother you know who just needs a day to herself or a family with a special needs child that just needs a break? There are so many ways to honor your sister’s memory and spare others your anguish. I hope you will begin to focus on those. Somehow I think that is exactly what your sister would want. I don’t believe for a minute she would want you angry and in anguish.
Reality,
Let me make this simple. Google and you will find how your side has exploited Gerri’s tragedy for the almost 50 years she has been dead. Google and you will find how your side has exploited the bogus “illegal abortion” death of Becky Bell. Your side has no aversion to graphic pictures and sob stories, however inaccurate.
I’ve previously stated Mary, that my visits to pro-choice sites are both rare and sporadic, so I wouldn’t really know. I didn’t dispute your claim. All I said was that I’ve only really seen the image on anti-choice sites. So I still find your question “Can’t see it or just don’t want to see it?” rather pointless.
“Your side has no aversion to graphic pictures and sob stories” – oh how quaint. Do you operate on this site via braille?
I don’t let it consume me. But the anger is hard to let go when our own culture shoves the abortion “rights” issue in my face constantly. For a while I prayed quietly outside of our local abortion clinic…only to be screamed at and flipped off. Not to mention the times people would speed up their cars and drive by as close to the curb as possible to make it look like they were trying to hit us…just for praying. Then praying turned into me standing there daydreaming about decorating the clinic with spray paint. i eventually got fed up and stopped going. I have not figured out the best way I should serve just yet.
Reality,
Apparently you have trouble navigating Google. If you could navigate it, you would find it on PA sites and see that Gerri Santoro’s tragedy, along with her death picture, has been exploited for decades by your side.
So I operate on this site via Braille? Reality, do you try to sound foolish or is it something that just comes natural?
Hi Rachel,
People aren’t going to stand up and cheer because you’ve taken a stand, so don’t let that deter you. I’ve gotten more than a few fingers in my life too, and must admit have flipped them as well. There are many ways for you to serve, and you will find them.
“Apparently you have trouble navigating Google.” – not at all I assure you.
“If you could navigate it, you would find it on PA sites ……” – so? I’ve already said I’m not disputing your claim. What’s your problem?
“So I operate on this site via Braille?” – you stated that the pro-choice side has no aversion to graphic pictures and sob stories. So what. Unless you’ve been operating via braille you could hardly have failed to notice the propensity that sites such as this have for graphic pictures and sob stories.
“Reality, do you try to sound foolish or is it something that just comes natural” – no, I leave that to others who are so much better at it than me. Maybe its in the listening ;-)
Rachael
Click on my name. :)
Reality 8:34PM
Yes its definitely in the listening.
Then I shall try to couch things in terms which you will hopefully find easier to understand :-)
Reality,
LOL, whatever.
Such devastating photos… especially the one with her hand resting over her pregnant belly, almost protectively. Rest in peace Marla and baby Christopher.
Rachel, it is hard, and I’ve never lost anyone to an abortion. I was threatened with rape by 2 pro-coice guys driving by when I was praying outside my local PP during 40 days for life. That scared me enough and my husband didn’t want me going for a while. I finally ventured back the week before Christmas. We sang Christmas carols outside of the clinic and girl after girl rejected our offers to help and laughed as they walked into the clinic. You would have thought that they were going to a fabulous Christmas party. I didn’t stay as I had a baby to get home to but I was told they weren’t at all jolly when they came back out of the clinic.
Maybe you can do a “baby shower” for your local CPC and collect supplies for them. I am so strapped for time with kids these days (and not always having a sitter) that that is usually how I serve these days. I will collect all the supplies people want to donate or whatever and drive it over to my CPC. Many people I’ve found want to donate but don’t have the time to drive it over. So I’ll collect it at church or wherever and when I’ve got a good stash load it up and the kiddos and go. Just a suggestion. But it is so wonderful knowing some woman choosing life who needs help is going to get all these wonderful things!! One of my friends went on a shopping spree at Kohls and bought tons of beautiful maternity clothes that were on the clearance rack. She probably spent a 100 bucks and I had BAGS of clothes to take to the CPC. It was so neat!
Anyhow, just a suggestion. I am sorry about your sister. I really am. Abortion leaves a void in the lives of everyone it touches.
Hi Sydney M
Some excellent suggestions.
Thank you Sydney, Mary, Carla. You have all left me with some good things to think about.
Rachel,
Your voice matters. Every little thing you do matters.
You are still grieving and that takes time. Time to sort it all out and work through the pain and anger and allow God to heal your heart.
He will help you find your calling in His timing.
Jack,
As someone who had abortion brought up to her by a co-worker when I’d never even said anything about it-she didn’t even know my child’s father was pressuring me to abort, she just decided she’d tell me how great her abortion was and how I should totally do it, too-if I had been more ignorant about human development and reproduction…her “advice” coupled with my ex’s abuse would’ve been deadly to my daughter. Now multiply that by however many post-abortive men and women take the tack of “misery loves company”…that’s a lot of dead children.
So pro aborts dont like these pictures? Well they sure dont mind waving around a picture of geri twerdys nude bloody behind to further their agenda. At least this womans private parts are covered.
Yep some post abortive women are dangerous and believe their abortions were just wonderful. Why would you take advise from a murderer still stuck in her delusion?
Hi Heather,
Calling unrepentant post abortive women murderers or killers shows no compassion on our part.
They are the very women I am trying to reach.
Hi carla happy new year. Im sorry if that came out wrong. I took depo provera for 14 years and I tell women they are giving themselves chemical abortions. I meant no disrespect. The pics of this woman are tragic. I was just sending the message that had she died from an illegal abortion the pro aborts would use these tragic pics to further their evil agenda.bc is no better than abortion. Hope that clarifies it better. Happy new yr! Ps I educate women on how bc kills children as well.
Also id like to point out something to be fair…i was watching an episode of lock up. This man shot and killed his 4 kids and wife. He got the death sentence. His own chilling words? Im glad I did it. I have no remorse or regrets. Point being….some people are evil and you cant change them. He was executed without repenting. Same with john wayne gacey….all you can do is try.
I wonder about the social worker who brow beat Marla into that unwanted abortion. How does she feel knowing that Marla is dead? Does she feel guilty, knowing she had a hand in pushing this young woman towards her death? Or does she feel like it’s just collateral damage, to be accepted, as long as the baby dies. Would she push the same thing if she could live those days over? Or would she respect Marla’s choice to have the baby?