Abortion clinic escort amused by pro-life reaction to online job forum
Servalbear recently wrote about our excellent experience with Jobstr, and the high quality of questions asked, which you can read about here if you missed it the first time. By the time she wrote about it, the first flurry of questions had died down, but her post unleashed a whole new run of questions…
We soon realized that the Jobstr site had been linked to a column by a national pro-life blogger. I won’t link to her here ~ email us if you have a pressing need to find her column.
We answered some of the questions they sent ~ the ones that could actually be considered questions ~ and deleted a number. But the ones we deleted began to amuse me, and I can’t resist answering them here.
Q: “Do you ever feel like a Nazi soldier… leading a person to their demise?”
A: No, never.
~ Abortion clinic escort fml221 describing the effect that a February 11 the Stanek Quote of the Day had on Jobstr’s post on questions for clinic escorts, Every Saturday Morning, February 20
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Hey! They mentioned my question that they immediately took down! Although, now that I’ve seen the “answer”, I can definitely understand why they didn’t keep it up:
Which only raises a slew of NEW questions! Like, at what point during gestation was “the fetus that eventually became” Mag replaced with Mag? How did the aliens accomplish this? How did they make the switch-out without drawing my attention? What exactly is the difference between “a potential person” and “an actual person”? Does the tinfoil hat ever scratch their forehead, and is it ever so tight it cuts off the circulation?
Deathcorts…who can understand ? one more dead baby keeping our paychecks alive
Eh they don’t want to hear the truth anyway
Of course they find it amusing. it’s not their lives. nobody’s gonna rip off their limbs. nobody is gonna jam scissors into their skulls. they aren’t going to die in a bucket or a garbage can….haha most amusing ..yak
Wonder if the tide was turned …we are gonna take you into that clinic and maul you. Chop off your arms with a chainsaw and then crush your skull. I expect a few of them would urinate in their pants….or much worse!
Xalisae…I don’t know why it is so hard for you to understand. I mean, your daughter was a POTENTIAL person. Kinda like how black humans are POTENTIAL people once their skin lightens up. And Jews are potential people once they you know..stop being Jews. Sure they’re all HUMAN but human doesn’t mean PEOPLE. Pfffft. Everybody knows that. Makes it so much easier to kill those who are inconvenient to you.
A potential life? It’s a life with potential duh!.,, hi syd hope ur baby is well. How old is your born fetus ? Joking of course
I have 2 potential lifes in college and a 5 year old fetus and a 2 and a half year old embryo …is your head spinning yet?
Hey Heather, my born fetus is going to celebrate 1 year of personhood next month! I can’t believe it! A year ago I was so big and fat with this potential person in my womb and now he is this big baby boy who is just growing up so fast. My life is full and happy with both my potential adult sons in my house.
Deathscorts are low rent depraved individuals. I really doubt they receive much training . come on let me take u to the killing door. A chimpanzee could do that
I had a few people encourage me to abort my second son. He is going to school to be a doctor God had plans for my son. He’s a go getter. I’m glad I didn’t listen to the women who told me snuffing him out would be better.
My husband’s a Jew i guess he’s the sub human of the family and our son is half sub human
No Heather, your husband are fully human. Can’t debate that. But are they PEOPLE? That is the question, I’ve learned thanks to pro-aborts. Some days I feel I fall short of all the criteria needed to be a person.
Yes Sydney…i suppose pro aborts are fully human and perfect. unless you see things their way you might be sub human. They can’t fool me with semantics. I’m not stupid . I was watching an interview with Barbara Streisand the other day. First she turned my stomach with her gay rights rant then she started to give me nausea with her pro choice rant. she appeared on pearse morgans show. all hevdid was kiss her a**! It was disgusting . she asked…can you image telling a woman what to do with her own body? She is a disgusting person .
My husband even remarked…I cannot believe a Jewish woman could support abortion after the holocaust ….oh but plenty do. I’ve had enough of these rich talented people who suddenly believe they are experts on everything . not gonna shove it down MY throat . can’t rewrite scripture
Well gotta get to work
Got under their skin , did ya Jill? ;)
Wow, I’m like so impressed.
If I asked a vet on jobstr if he felt bad when he had to euthanize someone’s dog,
Would he refuse to answer me, and then later make snarky comments through another venue???
Cowards. Couldn’t answer the tough questions.
Heather wrote:
“Deathscorts are low rent depraved individuals. I really doubt they receive much training. Come on let me take u to the killing door. A chimpanzee could do that.”
Name calling and insults do nothing to help women or save babies. It shuts conversation down, and never changes any minds.
This is my perspective, Servalbear and other abortion clinic escorts are volunteers doing what they believe is right, and what they believe is helping women. Pro-lifers who pray outside clinics and offer women alternatives to abortion are also doing what we believe is right and what we believe is helping women. So, we can say that escorts and pro-lifers both care about women enough to volunteer their time. Let us emphasize what we have in common, and engage in civil conversation.
I am always ashamed when I hear name calling and insults coming from the pro-life side.
Here’s the thing. I would venture that nearly every supporter of genocide in the history of the world committed mass murder out of the pure goodness of their hearts. Nazis did not wake up to another day of killing people by thinking “I’m going to do evil today” but rather “I am going to do some enormous good today.”
I couldn’t care less if this woman thinks she is “helping women” by destroying their children. Whether these deathscorts are evil maniacs who like to drink the blood of aborted fetuses or simply cool hipster chicks who just want to end the patriarchy, children are dying just the same. The “banality of evil” is an overused phrase for a reason.
xalisae,
I just read the escort claims one of the implications of your story is “I chose not to have an abortion, and that worked out well for me, so all women should make the same choice.”
Disgusting. These people act like letting your child live vs. letting your child die is of the same significance as choosing to order pizza vs. Chinese for dinner tonight. I like pizza, you like Chinese, I like my kid dismembered in the trash, you like yours alive. Whatever floats your boat!
The whole “patriarchy” thing is such a joke. Sure, you could have complained about a “patriarchy” a century ago. But in 2013? Kramer, please.
If a woman wakes up today and decides she wants a baby, if she’s fertile, she can accomplish that with relative ease. If a man wakes up today and decides he wants to father a baby, yep, well good luck with that. You can’t prevent the mother of your child from aborting and even if she despises you, she can make you financially accountable for the children she will block you from ever seeing. Patriarchy, my patootie. Men who want to be fathers have ZERO rights and ZERO legal protections. All the love in the world for their children can’t ensure their safe birth.
…cool hipster chicks who just want to end the patriarchy
LOL.
” If a woman wakes up today and decides she wants a baby, if she’s fertile, she can accomplish that with relative ease. If a man wakes up today and decides he wants to father a baby, yep, well good luck with that. You can’t prevent the mother of your child from aborting and even if she despises you, she can make you financially accountable for the children she will block you from ever seeing. Patriarchy, my patootie. Men who want to be fathers have ZERO rights and ZERO legal protections. All the love in the world for their children can’t ensure their safe birth.”
I think it’s pretty offensive how all discussions about father’s rights and how fatherhood is viewed end up with certain feminists saying men just wanna bail on child support and control women by using fertility. Because men couldn’t possibly have an interest in actually parenting their children rather than just sending a check every month. Because men who object to children being aborted are always just trying to control their girlfriends or wives, and they have zero genuine care for their unborn child. Always. I mean, I don’t deny that there are really genuinely misogynist men who only see their children as means to control the mother, or inconveniences that they don’t want to pay for, because I know a couple guys who are like that and I despise them. But that’s not all fathers, by far. And it’s frustrating when any guy who brings up that he doesn’t like the views on fatherhood that society at large projects is accused of being one of those dudes. It’s a bit ridiculous.
The whole “patriarchy” thing is such a joke. Sure, you could have complained about a “patriarchy” a century ago. But in 2013? Kramer, please.
I’m afraid I have to disagree. Patriarchy is a thing even now. Everyone started whining when the military said they were dropping gender on eligibility requirements. Because apparently having a penis or the risk that someone with one might think about sex some time is more important than treating women fairly. I personally have been paid less than a man doing the exact same job as me. I’ve had a man tell me I can’t be a feminist because I am pro-life. I listened to two people say that a woman who wants to play football on a college level shouldn’t want that because it doesn’t make sense for her to want it because she’s a woman. I’ve had people tell me that it’s partly my friend’s fault that she was raped because she shouldn’t have trusted someone who had been, up to that point, entirely trustworthy. Sarah Palin was likened to the “lipstick on a pig” for daring to be a successful woman in politics and S.E. Cupp was photoshopped into a sex act for the same reason.
Yes, things are much improved from the days of Susan Anthony and Alice Paul. We don’t have to lobby for the right to vote any more. But we are not a post-feminism society. And when you eliminate all the overt forms of a certain sort of bigotry, that makes people believe that it’s totally gone thus making the less obvious forms that much harder to eliminate.
And we still haven’t gotten into all the ways rape culture has a hold on our society, what with the over-sexed advertising, abortion, normalizing of child sex, trafficking, and on and on and on. Patriarchy is on its way out, but it’s not dead yet.
” I’m afraid I have to disagree. Patriarchy is a thing even now. Everyone started whining when the military said they were dropping gender on eligibility requirements. Because apparently having a penis or the risk that someone with one might think about sex some time is more important than treating women fairly. I personally have been paid less than a man doing the exact same job as me. I’ve had a man tell me I can’t be a feminist because I am pro-life. I listened to two people say that a woman who wants to play football on a college level shouldn’t want that because it doesn’t make sense for her to want it because she’s a woman. I’ve had people tell me that it’s partly my friend’s fault that she was raped because she shouldn’t have trusted someone who had been, up to that point, entirely trustworthy. Sarah Palin was likened to the “lipstick on a pig” for daring to be a successful woman in politics and S.E. Cupp was photoshopped into a sex act for the same reason.”
See, as a woman you see these inequities to yourself and that makes sense, because they affect you and other women. As a man I can see inequities to myself because they affect me and other men. For example, the military thing is rooted in both misogyny and misandry. Women are precious little objects that need protecting. Men are functional objects that need to go protect everyone and die. It’s not right to view either men or women like that. Women shouldn’t be treated as objects to be protected and bred with, and men shouldn’t be treated as paychecks and our lives shouldn’t be seen as worth less than women. It may seem like men have more agency, but that’s only as long as we stick in our gender roles.
And male victims of violence get heavily blamed, I can tell you about what people say to me. I don’t think that’s female specific, it’s because people tend to buy into the “Just World” hypothesis and believe that bad things must happen to people who do something wrong, because if they admit that the victim did nothing wrong then it could happen to anyone, and that’s terrifying to people. It’s easier to blame the victim, whether male or female, than admit that the world has dangerous, deadly people in it.
I actually agree with and have sympathy for some feminist points of view, but I think they tend to oversimplify gender relationships and issues in society as “Oppressors versus victims” without noticing that us supposedly privileged males deal with things that women don’t, and that women are benefited in some ways that men don’t.
xalisae,
I just read the escort claims one of the implications of your story is “I chose not to have an abortion, and that worked out well for me, so all women should make the same choice.”
Disgusting. These people act like letting your child live vs. letting your child die is of the same significance as choosing to order pizza vs. Chinese for dinner tonight. I like pizza, you like Chinese, I like my kid dismembered in the trash, you like yours alive. Whatever floats your boat!
Yep. Zero consideration for the person who was and is my daughter. And they even diminish MY experiences and STRUGGLES going through everything I did having her and raising her up to this point in the manner I have saying it must’ve “…worked out well for me…” and THAT’S the only reason I let her live and think other children should get to live, too.
I have many words for these “people”, none of which are appropriate to post on this blog’s comments. All I can say is, my daughter was more of a person, more of a human being, back when she was gestating inside me than any of these ghouls are now.
Jack, you are a very high quality dude, ;>)!!
Alice, I am not too ancient, but I remember the ERA, Equal Rights Amendment. What happened to it? When it didn’t get added in the fall of 1972, what happened? What happened in January of 1973, 40 years ago? We all know.
What I know is this: Fauxminists threw all of under the bus in January of 1973. Instead of continuing to work for equal rights, equal pay, etc., they gave up. They decided to be faux men instead, and since then have been insisting that the only way to equality is to be able to kill our pre-born children at will. After all, men can just walk away, they rationalize, and the only way women can walk away is to walk out of an abortionist’s office after the procedure.
Now, don’t even get me started on ‘rape culture.’ Because everytime we try to tell young women to be careful, don’t run around half-nekkid at a frat party guzzling beer until you don’t know who or where you are… we are told we are slut-shaming and girls end up walking the streets of Canada in their underwear holding ridiculous signs. Women can be real stupid. About as stupid as men can be when men are being stupid. We’re pretty equal in that.
” Now, don’t even get me started on ‘rape culture.’ Because everytime we try to tell young women to be careful, don’t run around half-nekkid at a frat party guzzling beer until you don’t know who or where you are… we are told we are slut-shaming and girls end up walking the streets of Canada in their underwear holding ridiculous signs. Women can be real stupid. About as stupid as men can be when men are being stupid. We’re pretty equal in that.”
That’s probably because clothes don’t have anything to do with rape. and people are tired of being told that? Or that most rapes are committed by individuals known and usually trusted by the victim, and it’s not stupid to trust the people you are close to. I think everyone should be careful (women because of the higher chance of sexual assault, men for the higher chance of murder and aggravated assault), but there is a fine line between encouraging caution and putting the responsibility for assault on the victims.
And I seriously, I can’t say it enough, clothing doesn’t have anything to do with rape. Otherwise southern Florida would be the rape capital of the US and it’s not, even though everyone is half naked down here half the year or more.
Lol that right there, Jon, that’s why I don’t want my kids going to church with my ex-wife, for conservative interpretations of the Bible that I don’t agree with and I don’t want them to be taught before they learn critical thinking skills.
Jack, with regard to feminism and many other issues, “conservative interpretations of the Bible” = “faithful, honest interpretations of the Bible” for anybody who has learned critical thinking skills and believes the Bible to be the inspired Word of God.
“Jack, with regard to feminism and many other issues, “conservative interpretations of the Bible” = “faithful, honest interpretations of the Bible” for anybody who has learned critical thinking skills and believes the Bible to be the inspired Word of God.”
Yeah, and other Christians have different ideas about what those specific verses mean, and have different ideas about what feminism or other social movements mean in the context of the Bible. I don’t think it’s as simple as you are making it out to be. But I do know my ex’s church is pretty extreme on the conservative gender roles (which is ironic, because she certainly wasn’t submissive lol), and it’s not something I want my kids to have ingrained in them.
Jack wrote, “I don’t think it’s as simple as you are making it out to be.”
Paul’s words are quite straightforward. And the other passages in the New Testament which speak directly to women have a similar thrust. Note how Paul went back to Creation to back up what he said. He showed that a woman should behave in a certain way because of (1) how she was made and (2) how she had erred (and brought about this changed reality of a fallen world in which we now live).
The apostle Peter wrote,
“Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.” (1 Pet. 3:1-6)
Welp, I am going to stop discussing this because I am not going to be able to find anything positive or kind to say in a minute here. Suffice to say I am not going to teach my daughter she needs to shut up and sit down while the men are talking. You can teach your’s however you want.
Jack, at a nude beach when i was a teen, it was obvious who the locals were and who the tourists were: the tourists stared, the locals did not. What you say about clothing is only partially true. Yes, we should be able to walk around naked or nude. But, that’s in an ideal world, which we have yet to create. I went to college and saw first hand what I am talking about. Men and women are different. We are equal but not identical. It may be true that a real gentleman won’t take advantage of a drunk girl at a party, but what if a young man doesn’t have a lot of self-discipline and he is drunk too, and people misread signals when they are impaired…Being egged on by a group is also a factor. The point is, we should use caution, but the fauxminists get so angry they can’t even think in a rational manner.
If you observe the animal kingdom, you will note that many animals with a complex social structure have evolved into male and female roles. Some of what humans do naturally is biological, and some of it is social. I’m saying that feminists literally and figuratively threw the baby out with the proverbial bath water.
It’s complicated to sort out gender roles from what is naturally beneficial to us and from what is socially-pressured and damaging to us. I’m saying feminists took the easy way out, and lots of men let them do it because it was convenient to them. Rebuilding our culture isn’t going to be easy, but those of us who do the work will evolve. Patriarchy? We women had a hand in creating it. Spoiling sons over daughters and looking down on homemakers are just two ways we participate in our own damage. Yep, stupidity is an equal opportunity trait, lol!
@Jon: Question all you like. I am answerable to God and not to you. Nor will your anti-feminism make me cease to call myself either a feminist or a Christian. (Also, I don’t think any honest reading of the Bible could make anyone feel that feminism was contradictory to Christianity, but seeing as you don’t get how it isn’t that conversation is a non-starter.)
TL;DR: I don’t owe you an answer here. Live with it.
@Jack: Actually, I agree with you that there are elements of our culture that are unfair to men, too. And it kind of annoys me that there are a lot of feminists that either don’t care or like these things for one reason or another. We’re saying around here all the time that one form of oppression does not mitigate another and it’s true in the misogyny/misandry arena as well.
@ninek: Other than your rape culture comments, I agree with you, too. In fact, I lump abortion in as part of rape culture. The group that decided to sacrifice advancing women’s rights in favor of abortions, abortions everywhere did not do anyone any favors. Not the unborn, not women, not nobody.
“I desire therefore that… the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.”
WELCOME TO WHY I FIRST LOST ANY AND ALL FAITH. YOU HAVE JUST REPEATED MY GATEWAY TO ATHEISM I FOUND IN 5TH GRADE CHURCH-SCHOOL VERBATIM! CONGRATS!!!
@xalisae: But Jesus was the first feminist!
…No really, He actually was. That story about the Samaritan woman at the well is what sold me on this. Because in Jewish culture at the time men did not talk to women in public. Ever. Even to their wives. So not only did Jesus reach out to a woman who was being shunned by the others in her culture, He treated her as a human being with a valid voice and real worth above in a way noticeably outside the cultural mores of the day.
Thank God for feminism, sez I! ;)
“What you say about clothing is only partially true. Yes, we should be able to walk around naked or nude. But, that’s in an ideal world, which we have yet to create. I went to college and saw first hand what I am talking about. Men and women are different. We are equal but not identical. It may be true that a real gentleman won’t take advantage of a drunk girl at a party, but what if a young man doesn’t have a lot of self-discipline and he is drunk too, and people misread signals when they are impaired…Being egged on by a group is also a factor. The point is, we should use caution, but the fauxminists get so angry they can’t even think in a rational manner. ”
I’m not saying that we *should* be able to walk around naked or whatever (even though that’s true), I’m saying that clothing doesn’t raise the chance for sexual assault. Alcohol and drugs do, however. whether it’s the victim or the rapist that ingested it, which is something that people tend to gloss over for some reason. And honestly I think that a lot of date rape is due to people not being properly educated about consent, and you’re right that it’s easy for an inebriated person to misread signals and do something horrible that they never intended to do. But that’s why the kids need educating.
But seriously. Clothing doesn’t raise the risk of assault. There’s not even a correlation as far as can be determined.
And I actually agree with you that some gender roles are due to biological factors, and they might have actually made more sense at one time in history. I just don’t think they should be socially enforced, legally or otherwise, and they shouldn’t be practically mandatory as they are now. People shouldn’t be shamed for being a sensitive guy or a tough woman, and all that.
I honestly think it’s a damn shame that feminists get hung up on abortion, because it’s basically shaming female biology to insist that woman can’t get anywhere without aborting a baby, rather than actually working to change the societal structures that make it difficult for mothers and pregnant women.
” @Jack: Actually, I agree with you that there are elements of our culture that are unfair to men, too. And it kind of annoys me that there are a lot of feminists that either don’t care or like these things for one reason or another. We’re saying around here all the time that one form of oppression does not mitigate another and it’s true in the misogyny/misandry arena as well.”
Well, I wish their were more feminists like you, honestly. It seems like the movement is kinda getting taken over by people who don’t agree that men suffer at all, and excuse women for behavior that they vilify in men. Like, you can go on Jezebel or some nasty website like that, where they call a male sexual assault survivor “sexhausted”, laugh about men being domestically abused, and simultaneously shame straight male sexuality even in it’s most benign form while encouraging female sexuality (which seems weird to me, because most women are straight, you can’t have straight women expressing their sexuality without straight men expressing theirs). That’s the “feminism” that a lot of people are reacting to, and I don’t think it was ever anything that feminism was truly about. It’s really frustrating that people think that’s equality.
…Yup. Conversation is a non-starter. Ta.
Well, I will say that being the “head” of a woman wouldn’t make me feel like a respected husband, it would make me feel very uncomfortable. And the Bible’s wrong about people not hating their own flesh sometimes lol. Whatever. Each to their own.
Women are the way they are because men failed. God gave them a leadership role and as we can see they have shirked that role. No longer are they the protectors of women but they use women for their own selfish reasons and then shuttle them off to the clinic when babies are made.
i’m sorry many of you have a incorrect view of what it means to be a submissive wife. It took me a long time to learn what that meant but I can say that it helped my marriage tremendously. When I stopped emasculating my husband our marriage became better than ever. Being a submissive wife is NOT being a doormat. I am an outspoken woman and certainly no doormat. But esteeming my husband, honoring him (in love not as his slave) and allowing him to be the leader God wants him to be has helped my marriage to flourish. It doesn’t mean my husband bosses me around or that I cower at his feet like a slave. People who get all huffy over this scripture need to stop huffing and study it a little more. You are misunderstanding greatly.
So men who have no interest in leading anything are just… failures by God’s standards? Or not really men? Look, I seriously don’t have an issue with you and other religious people following these scriptures however you see fit, but honestly it’s never going to fit my personality whatsoever, and every interpretation I have seen of this verse is something that would flat out make me miserable, and has. So maybe I am just extremely weird, or not everyone fits into that box. And I am never sure what people mean by “emasculating”.
Men are designed by God to lead their families JAck. When men and women don’t assume the roles God gave them (and I am NOT talking about who cooks and cleans and all that) then divorce ensues. The marriage breaks apart. The spouses are miserable and unhappy. Nothing works right. I can say that assuming my correct role in the marriage and letting my husband assume his has really helped our marriage. We will be going on 9 years of wedded bliss this fall and I hope we have many many more years of wedded bliss.
If men were being the protecters of women that they are supposed to be they wouldn’t be dropping them off at the clinics now would they? If men stepped up to the plate most women would not abort.
“Men are designed by God to lead their families JAck. When men and women don’t assume the roles God gave them (and I am NOT talking about who cooks and cleans and all that) then divorce ensues. The marriage breaks apart. The spouses are miserable and unhappy. Nothing works right.”
What are these roles how you see them? And you really think that everyone fits into them gracefully? No one is different and doesn’t fit into a leadership role if they are male, or a submissive role as a female? I’m really not being a smart a$$, I do respect your opinion even I don’t agree. I am just wondering how you see these roles.
And I am really glad that you found a way to make a happy marriage, that’s certainly rare. :/
“If men were being the protecters of women that they are supposed to be they wouldn’t be dropping them off at the clinics now would they? If men stepped up to the plate most women would not abort. ”
I honestly think that men aren’t the protectors of women, I think that everyone who is capable should protect anyone who is need of help. I don’t see why gender has to figure into it. Some people are weaker or stronger, it’s not necessarily dependent on gender.
I don’t think you’re being a smarta&& Jack. We’ve had these conversations many a time. I’m not quite sure how to explain it adequately to you. I know you know the Bible but I know you don’t believe it. So I’m not sure how I could satisfactorily explain it to you without inviting your ridicule. I did find this website that explains it much better than I could.
http://www.faithaliveny.org/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=61346&columnid=3474
I read “Created to be His Helpmeet” and while there was a lot of nonsense in the book there was also a lot of truth to the book that really healed my marriage. My husband and I were fighting over so many things and it is amazing when I started to really ADORE my husband and be his cheerleader and allow him to lead our home so many things fell into place. He began to romance me again. He agree (FINALLY) to have another baby, he let me be a stay at home mom whereas before I was the breadwinner. He discovered that he took great pride in being the breadwinner and leader of our home and I took great satisfaction in being the one who turned our house into a warm, safe home. We aren’t perfect at it but God designed roles work. I think many people who think they wouldn’t fit these roles would be surprised. I know I used to think I was too strong-willed a woman to EVER be a submissive wife, but only because I completely misunderstood that word. I thought it meant being a doormat. My husband was never allowed to really take charge of his life and make decisions. He was always being “babied” and so he never thought he could take charge and be a leader in our home. But surprise! We have fallen into our God designed roles with ease and found it makes life so much easier.
What I meant about men protecting women is all the men who will sleep with a woman that they have no intent on building a life with. That NBC anchor comes to mind. He kept sleeping with a woman he knew “wasn’t the one”. When she got pregnant he didn’t protect her. He didn’t protect their child. He supported her abortion. If men weren’t hopping into bed with women when they have no love for them and no intent on anything other than their own immediate sexual gratification we wouldn’t have 1.2 million abortions a year.
God brought Eve to Adam after He created her from Adam’s rib. He meant for Adam to protect Eve. Adam failed to lead and protect and so Eve was beguiled by the snake in the garden and sin and misery and death entered our world.
I realize that if you’re not a Christian and don’t believe the Bible that all I’m saying sounds ridiculous but I lived many years apart from my faith till I came back to it and I know from the wounds I bear that God knew what He was doing when he designed men and women and gave us our unique characteristics.
Sydney that was well put. My 84 year old mother believes womens lib was a huge part of our downfall. Today young women are so confused it’s unreal. The confusion was beginning in my generation . Today young girls think it’s their duty to hop in the sack. and this IS why our abortion rate is so high! I hear girls joke today calling themselves sluts and whores.?? Um okay. Then we have the rising problem of single mothers and I’m also meeting more single fathers.
I’m quite impressed with Jacks posts. I agree. I knew fathers who had no say so in abortion. I felt terrible for them. Feminists have tried to make this a woman’s world and it’s just never going to work. surely i agree that women should work vote and the basics but when we have to kill our children to have a career ..NOPE !!! You’ve lost me there.
And i am a chritian but if others choose not to believe then so be it. however my beliefs about gay marriage and abortion will NEVER change. It’s in scripture and it’s an abomination. as far as the person scolding me for calling the deathscorts names…ever meet any face to face? Too bad! They lead children to their deaths and many women leave the death mills in ambulances. trust me they could care less about my little old name calling !
And once against to be clear…I follow Christ. It is written in scripture what is right and what is wrong so I’m not going to get on the fornication gay marriage pro abortion bandwagon. nor will i ever feel bad for not doing so.
“Men are designed by God to lead their families JAck. When men and women don’t assume the roles God gave them (and I am NOT talking about who cooks and cleans and all that) then divorce ensues. The marriage breaks apart. The spouses are miserable and unhappy. Nothing works right.”
I agree, Sydney. My first marriage is a perfect example of this. So many people think this means lead as in boss around or control or abuse. It means lead as in by example.
I am so thankful my husband took on the leadership role that my ex refused to take. Having a couple of strong-willed, hormonal male teens in the home without a strong male leader in the family can be disastrous. God knew what he was doing when he brought my husband into our lives.
Jack, whether you know it or not yet, you are leading by example already. You left an abusive wife knowing it was not in your or your children’s best interest to stay. This round, you will be way more selective if you choose to ever marry again. You know all the signs and you love your kids enough to know you won’t tolerate garbage again or allow anyone to hurt them. You will continue to protect your children and if you found a woman who treated you all with love and respect, you would protect her from harm too.
My husband is indeed the head of the household.
But I am the neck that turns the head.
Jon,
I took down your comments questioning Alice’s Christianity.
I am sure you can understand why.
Criticize ideas, not people.
I apologize Alice that I did not see those sooner.
lol Courtnay. I like that one.
@Carla: It’s okay. I could’ve taken them down myself if I’d really wanted to. But I feel warm and fuzzy now. :D
“I don’t think you’re being a smarta&& Jack. We’ve had these conversations many a time. I’m not quite sure how to explain it adequately to you. I know you know the Bible but I know you don’t believe it. So I’m not sure how I could satisfactorily explain it to you without inviting your ridicule. I did find this website that explains it much better than I could.
http://www.faithaliveny.org/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=61346&columnid=3474“
Thank you for the link. And I am not trying to ridicule you or your views even if I’m pretty vehemently opposed to them, I don’t consider it ridicule when you or others are vehemently opposed to my views.
I don’t have an issue with like maybe half the stuff on the link. I have a huge problem with some of it, and find the fact that it flat out claims that if someone doesn’t agree with their interpretation of manhood they are “destroying their manhood”. I honestly think that’s a ridiculous way to look at the world. I am still a man even if I don’t agree with them, I kinda have all the necessary equipment and don’t need to buy into the role that they set up for me to be one. And anyway, I don’t want to have authority over a woman like “Christ had for the church”. I mean, doesn’t the church worship Christ and look toward him for all authority? I don’t want a woman to look to me as an authority, at all. That’s just as example of what I am talking about, I just think this stuff is completely counter to my actual personality and I would never fit into it. The stuff about self-sacrifice, giving, etc etc, that’s all good, but I’m never going to be an authority for anyone but my kids and even that’s only temporary.
Oh, and the thing about being a provider, I think that’s a silly measure of manhood. I don’t see how it’s remotely wrong to be the homemaker and supportive one if you’re a dude, it’s a more natural fit for some of us, and some women would rather provide. When I first got married, I worked and my wife stayed home for a while after she had our first kid, and we both hated it. I hated missing out on my kid and not being the one to raise him, basically, and she hated not being out in the world and didn’t like the supportive role at all. Actually, things got quite a bit better when I switched to part-time work and she was working full-time, and when I stayed home it was even better. Things eventually fell apart over unrelated issues, basically. But yeah, I wasn’t ever happy with the authority and provider role, and I don’t think that makes me an entirely bad man.
I am glad it works out well for your family though.
“What I meant about men protecting women is all the men who will sleep with a woman that they have no intent on building a life with. That NBC anchor comes to mind. He kept sleeping with a woman he knew “wasn’t the one”. When she got pregnant he didn’t protect her. He didn’t protect their child. He supported her abortion. If men weren’t hopping into bed with women when they have no love for them and no intent on anything other than their own immediate sexual gratification we wouldn’t have 1.2 million abortions a year. ”
Yeah, and women sleep with men that they have no intention building a life with too. I mean, some responsibility here for the ladies, eh? I mean, I don’t agree with the hook up culture, really at all, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy, but women are often seeking out these casual relationships. Men might be looking for casual more often than women are, but it’s getting to be pretty equal on the dating front. Literally a couple days after my wife moved out my neighbor was trying to get me in bed with her “just for fun” (I was so far from interested it wasn’t even funny, lol). But anyway, in essence yeah men should be more responsible about who they have sex with, especially if they don’t want kids or something serious. And women should too. I don’t think the onus is on either gender.
And I don’t think your biblical justifications are “ridiculous” I just don’t see evidence that they work for me, or other people who don’t fit into the assigned roles that you think God has provided for men or women. I am really glad it works for some people, including you, but I think humans are pretty diverse and trying to stuff everyone into one box isn’t gonna work too well.
” Jack, whether you know it or not yet, you are leading by example already. You left an abusive wife knowing it was not in your or your children’s best interest to stay. This round, you will be way more selective if you choose to ever marry again. You know all the signs and you love your kids enough to know you won’t tolerate garbage again or allow anyone to hurt them. You will continue to protect your children and if you found a woman who treated you all with love and respect, you would protect her from harm too. ”
Well thanks, you obviously have far more faith in me than I do lol. I have literally no faith in myself that I would recognize another terrible relationship before it was too late again, so I am more of the mind to be all “never ever dating or marrying again”. But in general, yeah, I do want to lead my kids by example. I want to teach both of them that they deserve respect and love. I want to teach both of them that they don’t have to be a certain way just because of their gender. I want my son to know that he can be a caretaker or nurturing if that’s his thing, and my daughter can be all BAMF and a senator or something while her husband cares for the kids if that’s what she wants. And part of showing them that they can be who they are, not who people want them to be for arbitrary reasons, is not letting myself get drawn into situations where I don’t get to be myself. I don’t know if any of that makes sense but that’s how I feel about it.
I don’t really care about people who are agnostic. i know a few but the agnostic folks i know don’t Christian bash and i let them know that i don’t tolerate anyone bashing my faith. They respect that. Frankly id be super depressed if i didn’t believe in God and i take tremendous offence to those who try to tell me that there is no God!
GOD is real . God is there and God comes first in my life. I know i will see my dead father and family members again on the other side. After 26 years of nursing I know there is an afterlife with no more pain or suffering. Too bad if you don’t read scripture . I DO! It gets me through. It gives me strength
Hi Jack, 4:13am
My opinion for what’s its worth, you are wise to be in no hurry to remarry. I have been in the step situation and its ain’t the Brady Bunch. I’m convinced my mother went into her second marriage thinking she would finally have the marriage and family life she always dreamed of. Not quite. You create more problems than you solve. There are issues with relatives, hers and yours. Your are defensive of your children, she is of hers. Of course if people disagree with me that’s fine, there are exceptions to everything, and only you can be the judge of any future relationships. I’ve seen some work against great odds.
Let’s just say from my own experience, I know I would never remarry, at least not until your children are grown and out of the house.
@Jon: If it were untrue, it would be libel. Slander is spoken and libel is written. This being a written medium, slander is the wrong one.
I refuse to take you seriously. If you can read the Bible where Miriam was a prophetess and Deborah led the people of Israel and the women of Ruben and Gad ran their whole tribes while their men were fighting the war to take possession of the land of Israel and Rahab is in the Hall of Faith and a woman whose name I have forgotten killed Sisera and Esther saved Israel and Jesus’ first appearance after His resurrection was to a woman and on and on and on and still come away with “women should be seen and not heard,” you just aren’t someone worth engaging. I have better things to do with my time.
Now you know why I refuse to get into religious debates or discussions on this blog, or anywhere. People debate and discuss and no minds are ever changed, no issues resolved, and interpretations of the Bible and what is says are in the eye of the beholder.
True Mary…we have an agnostic who helps out at the abortion clinic . some people try to convert him. i get along with him just fine because he doesn’t try to convert people with faith to his pov nor do i waste my time trying to convert him.
Well thanks, you obviously have far more faith in me than I do lol. I have literally no faith in myself that I would recognize another terrible relationship before it was too late again, so I am more of the mind to be all “never ever dating or marrying again”.
Most divorced people go through this. I know I did! I had major problems with men and I remember joking with my friends that I either was going to become a nun or a lesbian! The loneliness won out and I eventually took another chance on love.
I know I would never remarry, at least not until your children are grown and out of the house.
After my separation and divorce, I was single for six years. Today is my seventh wedding anniversary with my second husband. We have a wonderful life together.
If I had never remarried, my children would have never had the opportunity to see a functioning, happy marriage. They would have only seen the abusive marriage of their parents and the abusive marriage of their father and step-mother.
Our children would have had to spend much more time alone while I worked another job. I would not have been freed up to attend activities and show them the attention they deserve. I would have never been able to afford summer vacations, camps, braces, restaurants, sport games, movies and extras like laptops. My husband has coached, helped with homework, listened, counseled, cooked, cleaned, remodeled mowed, fixed, installed, prayed with and played endless hours of catch, basketball, fishing, and football with our children. He has shown them not all men hurt their wives and children, show up when they say they will nor get drunk daily. Our children are healthier mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually because their step-dad leads by example and provided many gifts that I could not provide them alone. I have no doubt he would go to his death protecting us from harm if need be.
You create more problems than you solve.
Yes, if you haven’t learned from the first set of problems, you will. Otherwise, you are just speaking from your own (or your mother’s) experience.
God created man and woman for a reason.
Hi Prax,
I hope your children share your perspective. I know my mother viewed her marriage as perpetual bliss, I thought….and knew otherwise.
However, you’ll get no argument from me. As I said, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I couldn’t be happier for you and your family that your situation turned out well. When my opinion is asked, and it has been, I always advise caution and avoiding unrealistic expectations. They can take my advice or leave it.
I’ve met people who remarry and couldn’t be happier. my girlfriends father remarried and remained very happy until his second wife passed away from cancer. They blended their families but never had any biological kids together . I say good for them. He had many happy years with Kathy. Although he’s told me its taken time he is out dating a little. His burial plot is next to Kathys
I hope your children share your perspective.
The first couple years, no. They were used to having mom all to themselves and were somewhat jealous. Now I hear them talking to friends and referring to their step-dad as their dad and they introduce us to others as their parents.
I always advise caution and avoiding unrealistic expectations.
As do I. If you do not trust yourself to be able to decipher who would make a good spouse vs. who would not, you are better off not even dating. If you have it in your head and heart that remarrying would cause more damage then good then do everyone a favor and stay single.
I tell single parents to not give up hope if they are called to marriage and to pray for what is right for yourself and your children. I prayed and asked God to bring a good man into our lives and He answered my prayers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjO1F6oCab8
Alice wrote, “I refuse to take you seriously.”
No, you have refused to take the Bible seriously. Most of all my comments (most of which have been deleted, not by me, because of perceived offense to you) have been quotations from the New Testament–long ones.
Alice wrote, “If you can… still come away with ‘women should be seen and not heard.'”
I never used that line. I merely quoted New Testament letters from the apostles Peter and Paul that forbade a woman to teach a man (religiously, at least) and recommending a quiet spirit.
Mary wrote, “Now you know why I refuse to get into religious debates or discussions…”
Life is religion. In talking about abortion, for example, we can’t escape religion. It’s all very well to debate whether a pre-born human being is a human being or not, but the more critical question is whether it’s okay to kill him. That’s a moral question, a religious question.
Religion is just the way we respond to God. He has revealed Himself to us in the Bible, and as we live before His face, we cannot help but respond. Whether in faith or in unbelief, respond we must.
Of course, it is possible to interpret anything rightly, and it is also possible to interpret it wrongly. Christians are not surprised that there are many wrong interpretations of the Bible.
Jon. you’re right. I’ve met so many people who believe they can be Catholic and pro choice. lol nope
To borrow from Captain Kirk, on the contrary, Jon, I think of the Bible as very important. It is you I take lightly.
Also, I suspect it was you that tried to sic some hellfire-and-brimstone CONVERT-TO-CATHOLICISM-OR-BURN-FOREVER!!! email trolls on me (And, really? What are you, twelve?), and I am just so underwhelmed. For the record, I haven’t touched your posts. But, seeing as I’ve had any number of people question my theology before and none of them have been as horrible about it as you have, I won’t be making any efforts on your behalf with the other mods.
That’s a moral question, a religious question.
Morality =/= religion.
Morality has no basis without religion.
Alice wrote, “I suspect it was you that tried to sic some hellfire-and-brimstone CONVERT-TO-CATHOLICISM-OR-BURN-FOREVER!!! email trolls on me.”
I have no idea of what you’re talking about.
Alice wrote, “I’ve had any number of people question my theology before and none of them have been as horrible about it as you have.”
Requiring that your theology match what the Bible actually says is not horrible.
Hi Prax,
Thank you for the feedback. I wish you many years of happiness.
Alice, to be more clear, the only communication I’ve recently had with anyone to do with Jill Stanek’s website since I wrote my very first comment on this thread (which Carla deleted) is by commenting on this thread. I haven’t written under any other of Jill’s posts and I haven’t e-mailed anybody.
Alice wrote, “Jesus [is] the first feminist.”
Isn’t it quite a jump to say that because Jesus conversed with a woman (in an era when according to her men didn’t even speak to their own wives in public) He is therefore in support of feminism, i.e. no submission in marriage, equal representation in the work force, voting rights, participation in the military, etc.?
But to know the thinking of the Lord and Saviour of the Church–in whom there is neither male nor female (no discrimination on basis of sex in church membership)–consider His beloved bride:
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.” (Eph. 5:22-33)
Morality has no basis without religion.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/353/137/f2f.gif