BREAKING: Carhart’s victims identified
I did not report on the death last week of a patient of late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart because I did not have corroboration.
I now do.
Carhart’s alleged victims were 29-year-old Jennifer McKenna Morbelli, pictured right, and her 33-week-old preborn daughter, Madison Leigh. Read their obituary here.
My sincere sympathies go to Jennifer and Madison’s family, who is certainly suffering unimaginable grief.
I confirmed the identities of the abortion victims through two sources. After a name ID was received from an impeccable informant, sidewalk counselors at the abortion clinic positively identified Jennifer’s obituary photo. Jennifer’s obituary also states she “passed away suddenly.”
Following is the information and timeline pieced together through those and other sources. Operation Rescue’s Cheryl Sullenger is to be commended for her work exposing this terrible tragedy.
Jennifer was married and a kindergarten teacher at Church Street Elementary School in White Plains, New York. Jennifer was carrying a wanted baby. At present her registry is still online. Very sad to view. (UPDATE 2/10 12:20p: Registry link has been removed. View screen shot here.)
Approximately two weeks ago Jennifer learned her daughter suffered from fetal anomalies.
Jennifer, her husband, her parents, and her sister traveled to Carhart’s late-term Germantown Reproductive Health Services abortion clinic in Germantown, Maryland, last weekend.
Carhart began the abortion process on Sunday, February 3, in the afternoon, according to sidewalk counselors who maintain a constant presence at the clinic when it is open. They noted Jennifer appeared “very” late-term.
According to those counselors, Sunday is when Carhart kills late-term babies by lethal injection into the heart through the mothers’ abdominal wall.
Jennifer and her family returned on Monday, presumably to begin the labor induction process by insertion of laminaria or prostaglandins to dilate the cervix, and again on Tuesday.
They likely spent each night at a nearby hotel, as is the usual process for a multi-day, late-term abortion at Carhart’s Germantown clinic.
Each day sidewalk counselors noted in real-time annotations that Jennifer appeared more and more pale.
The family returned again on Wednesday, presumably for the delivery of Jennifer’s dead baby Madison, staying nine hours, an extraordinary length of time. They left at 4:35 p.m.
Carhart and his wife Mary Lou left soon afterward. The two typically fly out on Wednesday afternoons to either Indianapolis, Indiana, or Bellevue, Nebraska, to commit abortions on Thursdays. Carhart is what’s known as a “circuit rider” abortionist.
At approximately 5:00 a.m. on Thursday, February 7, Jennifer presented at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital in Rockville, Maryland, which is almost nine miles from Carhart’s clinic.
Family members told hospital personnel they had tried to reach Carhart several times, but he did not return their calls.
At approximately 9:00 a.m. Jennifer coded. She coded a total of six times before she was pronounced dead at about 10:00 a.m.
It was during this time Carhart called the hospital. He never showed up.
A medical examiner was called due to the unusual circumstance of an otherwise healthy 29-year-old suddenly dying. The examiner spend 4-1/2 hours with the patient’s chart. The Washington Post reported yesterday that both the medical examiner and Montgomery County Police Department are conducting an investigation.
Carhart’s clinic licensed the day before Morbelli died
It is not known whether the State of Maryland will close down Carhart’s mill pending these and other investigations. In November 2012 the state enacted abortion clinic regulations. Ironically, the day before Morbelli died the state licensed 17 abortion clinics, including Carhart’s, but without ever inspecting them.
After Tiller
LeRoy Carhart is likely the most prominent abortionist in America.
Carhart was the plaintiff in two U.S. Supreme Court cases, Stenberg v. Carhart in 2000, which he won and which forced the State of Nebraska to overturn its ban against partial birth abortions; and Gonzales v. Carhart in 2007, which he lost and which allowed the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban to stand.
Carhart is also one of four abortionists, pictured above, featured in the new documentary, After Tiller, which just received rave reviews at the Sundance Film Festival. That documentary’s credibility has now gone up in smoke.
Jennifer and her family came to Carhart for help, albeit misguided, and he destroyed them.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I wonder if the Maryland “clinic” was a sinkhole like the Nebraska one. Anyway, it seems this poor woman would still be alive if she had gone to term, which she just about had. Yes it is very tragic to discover her baby had anamolies. Do we know what exactly they were?
I just wish that people could learn to trust in the Lord. This beautiful young woman, who had so much to offer, would be alive today, if she would have understood that there is a purpose to everything under Heaven.
So sad, one of the books already bought on the registry, “Love You Forever.” The song the mommy sings to the child in the book: “I love you forever, I’ll like you for always, as long as I’m living, my baby you’ll be.”
I am sorry for the famies loss. Although on the other hand, I do not believe any type of abortion is legal or right in God’s eye’s. Babies are born with things wrong with them everyday, that doesn’t give us the right to choose to kill them. I’m sorry, but that just sickens me. We don’t get to pick and choose who lives and who dies, God does. I am not judging, I am not God. I will keep your family in my prayers. I also will pray that all the abortion clinics get shut down for good.
This is really sad. I offer my condolences to the family. I would also like to note that the average American would be shocked to find out that abortions this late are even legal.
”the state licensed 17 abortion clinics, including Carhart’s, but without ever inspecting them.”
Sigh, some things never change. Have we learned nothing from Gosnell?
When Tiller was killed there was much lamenting as to what would happen to women who “need” late term abortions and can’t get them. Uh…they might stay alive?
Mary, I’ve been given some indication but not enough to go public with.
1. This is a GREAT time to point out that perinatal hospice was an option that could have spared Jennifer’s life and possibly given her and her husband time to spend giving their baby cuddles and love during her short life. What kind of memories does that husband and father have now?
2. We need to FLOOD St. Jude’s with donations in her name. That will show her family that people care far more than, say, showing up for the funeral, which would intrude on their privacy at this time.
Thank you Jill,
The obituary indicates she was Catholic.
I pray for this family. This is so, so tragic. And needless.
I pray it is a wakeup call to Catholic pastoral ministers - including bishops - in the US. It is not enough to ask people to sign some postcards or remember “life” in general during the month of November. One must be explicit, direct and intensely compassionate: ”ALL life is precious and a gift. If you are experiencing difficulties – COME TO US. ALL babies are a gift!”
This makes me weep.
So this is like, what, the second patient death we know of from “Dr” Carhart.
Hi Christina,
Good points. Would going to term and having the baby have been any more traumatic and tragic than this?
Hi JDC,
Certainly we will be hearing words of outrage from NOW and NARAL at any moment. Wait, did they ever say anything about the young mother who died after her late term abortion at the PP clinic? Well I’m sure they did and we just never heard about it. (sarcasm)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Oh my heart. This beautiful young mother. A teacher with grieving kindergarten students.
A precious baby already named.
And the family thinks that CARHART is where you take your wife/daughter for “care?”
I can’t bear it.
I am so sorry Madison that WE believe you should be killed before you are even known to us. That we believe your life is less than because you might die so we have to kill you. We kill you before you die naturally.
God help us.
http://benotafraid.net
Killing isn’t healing. What a hard lesson for this family to learn.
Hi Mary,
It’s interesting how there’ s a “War on Women” going on, and only their side ever kills anyone. Including women. Go figure
Why choose to abort her baby at 33 weeks in such a cruel manner? Even if her baby were to die shortly after birth, at least she could be cuddled and loved in those last momments by her mom and dad!
Here’s the donation page for St. Jude’s: https://shop.stjude.org/GiftCatalog/donation.do?cID=14222&pID=23750
The email for the funeral home (so they can send an e-card) is here: info@coxeandgraziano.com
PLEASE be sensitive about what you say. Yes, you can say it’s from “Minnesota Friends of the Preborn” if that’s your organization name, but please don’t make any “You should have chosen life for your baby” or comments like that. This is a chance to rally in LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE and let them come to US. They are devastated beyond what most of us, thank God, can even begin to grasp. Just something like “Praying for you in theis time of tragedy” would be appropriate.
All this pain and suffering. But for what? It breaks my heart to know that so many lives are lost by abortion clinics. I could spend hours listing ways they destroy lives and how evil they really are without covering everything. I pray that abortion ends and I plan to take action against it. Good intentions mean nothing without attempting to carrying them out.
Thank you Christina.
I am too angry to do that right now.
Praying for this family. And for justice. That Carhart’s days of killing are over.
I don’t know what to say, it’s just so sad…. the only thing that comes to mind is… Jesus please help us all.
Sorry, I’m not ready to flood St. Jude’s with donations. I need more information first. Is that where Jennifer got the horrible advice to kill her precious but “defective” baby? Was she consulting specialists about her daughters condition only to be fed a hopeless diagnosis and told the “merciful” thing to do would be to kill her daughter?
This is such a tragedy. It’s just heartbreaking. And it really makes me mad too.
It is worth noting that pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis, as the case of the patient referenced here, is the cause of about 7% of all post-operative deaths. However unfortunate, such deaths occur. Respiratory failures also contribute to post-surgical death rates and a host of other events. However, medical procedure by medical procedure, abortion still remains among the safest today – BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL.
Lrning, I really doubt that St. Jude’s was providing prenatal care. They only take patients on a referral basis, generally those who are eligible for clinical trials. And they specialize in what are considered hopeless cases — whence named after St. Jude. They’d not tell a parent, “Sorry, your kid is too hopeless even for us” if a family were referred.
But I can email and ask if they take prenatal diagnosis cases.
So young. So beautiful. So tragic.
Abortion is never a necessary or safe treatment for any fetal abnormality.
Carhart deserves a Gosnell-sized orange jumper. May he hear the words “criminal negligence,” “gross malpractice” and “wrongful death” in his ears every day for the rest of his days, because Jennifer and Madison and those who love them deserve justice.
Lucy Lou, how can you attribute abortion safety to legalization when the death rate fell the most long before legalization? Look at the data and explain it away, if you can:
http://realchoice.blogspot.kr/2008/12/unmistakable-undeniable-clear-impact-of.html
However, medical procedure by medical procedure, abortion still remains among the safest today
Such an easy (and pointless) thing to say about a medical procedure that ISN’T TRACKED so we have NO IDEA how safe or unsafe it really is.
Lucy Lou — American Women die from complications directly related to abortion at an average rate of 10 per year. That is approximately one woman per month, every month, for that last 40 years.
Rates of women dying due to abortion were never that high when abortion was illegal.
The high rate of death is due to the high rate of abortion. And the high rate of abortion is because it is legal. Fewer women die when hacks like Carhart and Gosnell are prosecuted.
Of course, this ignores the 54 million American children who are dead due to abortion. And the uncounted millions of women who die from suicide, drug and alcohol abuse that was indirectly related to the trauma of abortion.
Pro-life saves women’s lives. We could have saved Jennifer, if Carhart had been incarcerated after his first killing.
Jill, your “Washington Post” link takes us to the list of abortuaries. You might want to fix that.
I understand that a Catholic priest was with Jennifer. Before we pray for consolation for the family, let’s pray for repentance. At the very least, they acquieced to the planned murder of Madison. Without repentance there will be no real peace or solace or even salvation.
Lyrning, there’s also the fact that Jennifer clearly wanted a living child. Why was she shunted off to a quack abortionist who had already killed a patient, whose own administrator had reported him to the state for bizarre and dangerous behavior, whose clinic in Nebraska was a disgusting place? Why is abortion the best that society can offer these women?
Who gives a rat’s ass if it’s “safe” or not if the woman *doesn’t want it* but feels trapped? It’s safe to fly from New York to California but that would hardly be an excuse for hounding soembody into making the flight when they didn’t want to go to California in the first place.
I have to correct you, Del. The death rate was higher before legalization, but because of the state of medical science and practice, not because of abortion’s legal status.
Lucy Lou,
It sounds like this woman died of massive internal bleeding. Also, surgeons or their associates are able to immediately respond to emergencies, Carhart was nowhere to be found. 17 abortion clinics in Maryland were licensed without being inspected. I bet the kennels in your town are inspected before licensing.
This is your idea of safe legal abortion?
Indeed, we live in a very twisted world in which someone like Carhart is honored. Very twisted. May the LORD Who had mercy on my own soul have mercy on all those involved in the abortion industry and may HE glorify HIS name through them.
However, medical procedure by medical procedure, abortion still remains among the safest today.
I am sure this will comfort Jennifer’s family so much in the coming days, weeks and years.
It makes me so sick that abortion is legal.
And it makes me so angry that anyone finds it acceptable that women are treated like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5iF65nv2B3k
LISTEN to what happens in these abortion clinics!
It is so, so sad. There are some programs to help parents deal with a poor pre-natal diagnosis but too few. The programs help parents see the value in their child’s life even if that child has some problem that will not let them live. My guess is that no one was there to remind Jennifer that, even if Madison had a defect that was fatal, her child could have been born, baptized and loved during her life. It would not stop the pain of losing her, but they would have been the parents of a saint in Heaven, which is the goal of being a parent.
I am from this area and it is well known Carhart chose Maryland due to the lack of any restrictions. There is a very good priest who is at that hospital daily so I truly pray that she was able to confess and receive absolution. My prayers for all involved.
“Washington Post” is a bad link. It’s connected to the .pdf of licensed clinics. FYI.
33 weeks. THIRTY THREE weeks! What took so long? I fear that she was failed many many times over by the hearth are system.
“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”…How myy heart is breaking for this family. I believe they loved Jennifer. I believe they thought they were doing the right thing. All of us, in this country, share in the responsibility of what just happened to this family. We have had 40 yrs to reverse this atrocity. Our culture thinks this was the “loving” thing to do, people believe abortions are “safe” and even some, think they are “rare”. It MUST change, it must STOP….how many more people do we have to lose in this way before America wakes up. Please do not let their deaths be in vain….share this story with all you know, in every way you know. We cannot be “politically correct” anymore, thinking “Choice” is the loving thing to advocate. We must be a voice for all those we have lost, bearing witness to the Truth. Their lives, even in death have purpose and meaning. We owe it to them to make sure this does not happen to another mother and her child again. For…”whatever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto Me”
Hi Mary,
This was an opportunity for a family to come together to offer love and support during a very tragic time, the loss of a baby. However sad and difficult, wouldn’t this have been preferable to loading everyone on a plane, staying at a hotel, mother and baby dying traumatic deaths, and a double funeral? There are no quick and easy solutions to life’s heartbreaks and traumas, which include the loss of a child.
All surgical procedures have risks – legal abortion is one of the safest procedures around. BTW: 1,000+ women die in America every year from pregnancy related complications, far, far more than die from legal abortion.
How can an abortion be one of the safest medical procedures if a human loses his or her life each time one is performed?
Actually, abortion isn’t safe. 99.9% of the time, it kills at least one person, typically a mother’s gestating child.
Nice to see the damage control squad out in full force already.
“Catholic”.
Also: The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16–20 weeks—and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks. Source: Bartlett LA et al., Risk factors for legal induced abortion-related mortality in the United States, Obstetrics & Gynecology
I HOPE one day someone publishes YOUR medical records…or that smarmy Troy Newman. Or his wife. I met Dr. Tiller and Dr. Carhart a few times. Yes, even that nightmare “Mr. Abortion of Florida”. They are…were..not perfect people. But unless this woman’s family gave you the information, you should be ashamed of yourself.
I had an abortion at the age of 17 back in 1982. I was 12 weeks along. I believed the lies they told me back then. There go I but by the grace of God. I hurt for her that she believed the lie of Satan that it was the compassionate thing to do and that her family all supported her decision. Yes, I am sure they have many regrets, but there is no going back.
I pray that God is glorfied thru this sad situation and that perhaps ONE young woman would think twice before she would make such as tragic decision. Oh that one baby would be spared thru this!
Janet, Cathy: Thanks. WashPo link fixed.
@Dee: Not to be flip but obviously the intent of an abortion is to terminate a pregnancy and that means the fetus no longer lives. I was referring to women and their safety in a surgical procedure.
@MarK: I have wondered who at the hospital was giving away information about this woman in violation of laws and ethics.
Amen Sheila!!
I am post abortive like you. Thank you for the kind words.
I too was told not for one pregnancy but for two, that I should consider abortion. Those 2 children are now almost 11 and 6 years of age. Doctors aren’t always correct on their diagnosis. My heart and prayers go out to the family especially little Madison.
The obituary indicates she was Catholic. Even if her daughter had problems she should have given birth just so the baby could be baptized.
It’s not a good thing to die while commiting a mortal sin like an abortion.
God forgive us.
Provy Odell says:
All surgical procedures have risks – legal abortion is one of the safest procedures around.
B.S. Those risks go up quite a bit when unqualified, untrained, non-medical personnel are doing anesthetics, surgery, recovery, etc. When SURGICAL centers have no crash carts or emergency equipment.
LISTEN to what happens in these clinics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5iF65nv2B3k
How many women has Carhart killed now?
(Oh, but they were as safe as kittens!! Say those who try to defend the indefensible.)
Mark Edwards, you’re not making sense to me. I really don’t know what you’re trying to say, except that you’re angry. Who should be ashamed? Why? What medical records? Don’t you care that people are dying at the hands of supposed doctors?
p.s. Okay, now I see a comment above that somebody at the hospital was showing medical records.
Jesus Wept.
A tragic loss of a young woman.
The headline says “Carhart’s victims…”. This is then toned down to “alleged’ of course.
And since the whole event took place because it was apparently planned to terminate the fetus which had been named Madison, the term ‘victims’ plural is inappropriate.
Del, don’t get confused between ‘rates’ and ‘numbers’.
“Pro-life saves women’s lives.” – that simply isn’t true.
Given the high demand for abortion by so many women and the fact that, as many here state, it shouldn’t be treated like dental surgery, abortion should be carried out in hospitals. That’s been made difficult though because of the pestering, harassment and boycotting by the anti-choice movement.
Whoever sues because of this obvious medical malpractice should also sue the state for licensing the mill without inspecting it…So many are complicit with the atrocity of abortion…
I pray for Jennifer’s family, what a burden to bear!
Listen to this abortion clinic director at about the 2:30 mark and you’ll understand why anyone saying that abortion is safe is full of b.s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kN_onsB8w&list=UU37tO3Y2Sy8RFjah9-qa0fw&index=26
Provy Odell says:
February 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm
All surgical procedures have risks – legal abortion is one of the safest procedures around. BTW: 1,000+ women die in America every year from pregnancy related complications, far, far more than die from legal abortion.
I’m struggling to resolve your non-sequitur.
Since abortion is always an unnecessary choice, it seems like an unnecessary risk. There are several dead mothers each year. Plus the many who are rushed to emergency rooms with perforated uteri, profuse bleeding, and incomplete removal of fetal parts. Then there are the many who are rendered infertile. And the ones who have difficulty carrying future children to term. And the apparent increased risk of breast cancer. Not to mention the increased incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and other emotional problems.
This is the “safest procedure around”?
Did you forget about the child who is always killed by the abortion procedure? A million-plus children, every year?
That is a short list of the dangers of abortion. I could go on — as with the broken relationships and abandonment, the coercion, sexual abuse, cover-ups, and trafficking created and sustained by the presence of legal abortion .
And perhaps after you are done with explaining away all of the dangers women face because of legal abortion, then you can explain to me what any of this has to do with the normal risks associated with normal natal care and birthing.
There are several things about this that are disturbing.
1) She was married and 33 weeks along. What could possibly have lead her to kill her child at that stage that she would have believed was “for her health”, since that would have been the most likely reason to be given for this?
2) The obituary says that she and her child died together. It simply refers to her child as a baby. If you are going to abort anyway, why even mention the baby?
3) The baby was named. Was this done before the abortion? If not, why do it after? This also leads back to my second point above.
4) Did the husband/father have any clue that this was going to happen? This leads back to my first point.
There might be some simple explanations for these and other questions, but it is highly curious to me, as a former member of military intelligence.
33 weeks?!? Catholic?!? Who was advising this mother? Who would send her to Carhart?!? What a very sad story.
A question for abortion defenders–
Seriously, honestly, why is aborting/killing a 33 week old little girl fetus ok because she is malformed? How do you look at handicapped and deformed people who are around you in your daily life?
Jennifer, Madison, I am so sorry. :(
Reality,
“The tragic loss of a young woman.”
WOW. I think that is quite possibly the ONLY time I have ever read those words from a proabort about a woman’s death from abortion.
Thank you.
“Since abortion is always an unnecessary choice,” – subjective.
“it seems like an unnecessary risk” – at least 9 times safer than delivery.
“And the apparent increased risk of breast cancer.” – discredited.
“Not to mention the increased incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and other emotional problems.” – fallacious.
Provy O’Dell 10:20PM
Do you consider it safe and acceptable practice to license a medical facility without first inspecting it? Is this acceptable for all medical facilities or just abortion clinics?
The loss of a vital young woman is always tragic Carla, no matter the circumstances or causes.
I have been here for more than 5 years Reality.
And your statement is a first for me.
How refreshing. You are just wrong about everything else. :)
Provy Odell says:
February 10, 2013 at 10:42 pm
@Dee: Not to be flip but obviously the intent of an abortion is to terminate a pregnancy and that means the fetus no longer lives. I was referring to women and their safety in a surgical procedure.
@Provy: Not to be flip, but the intention of slavery is to own and use slaves. The intention of concentration camps is the torture and gas Jews.
Even though these actions were legal and safe (for the slave-owners and the Nazis who desired them), we insist on remembering that real people were abused and killed, and we rightly condemn that injustice.
This is also true concerning the fetuses who is killed during legal abortions.
Jill, in your sidebar on Maryland’s failure to conduct inspections on surgical abortion facilities, do you have a definitive word from the Dept of Health that they have not conducted in-person inspections of the 17 abortion facilities. As a 20-year resident of Maryland, this is an absolute outrage. I’d like to work from your facts to petition our legislators, and call for full investigation.
Reality wrote, “The loss of a vital young woman is always tragic… no matter the circumstances or causes.”
Is the loss of a vital girl tragic, Reality?
How about the loss of a vital baby girl?
At what age does a vital person’s death become tragic to you?
BTW Provy
Did you ever check out the sinkhole Carhart runs in Nebraska? You might have trouble determining if its a chop shop or “clinic”. There were some porta potties in the parking lot but I don’t know if those are for the patients or the chop shop “employees”. Check out Jill’s site here for some great pics.
I’m sure you agree that for abortion to truly be safe, clinics must meet the same standards as all medical facilities and be subject to state inspection and licensing. Also, only trained and licensed personnel should be involved in patient care and drug administration.
“And your statement is a first for me.” – why? Unexpected and sudden deaths are usually tragic.
“You are just wrong about everything else.” – no I’m not, and you know it :-)
I think the loss of a “vital young woman” is equally tragic to the loss of her perhaps less-than-vial young child. I guess I’m just a freak, though.
at least 9 times safer than delivery.
Such an easy (and pointless) thing to say about a medical procedure that ISN’T TRACKED so we have NO IDEA how safe or unsafe it really is.
You are the only proabort that has ever expressed ANY remorse(?)over a death of a young mother by a “safe, legal and rare” abortion! As a rule they stay away from threads like this.
And yes. Jon has an excellent follow up question!
Any thoughts on the death of the nearly full term baby girl named Madison?
Reality says:
February 10, 2013 at 11:19 pm
“Since abortion is always an unnecessary choice,” – subjective. ALL CHOICES ARE “SUBJECTIVE.” THERE IS NO MEDICAL CONDITION THAT DEMANDS ABORTION TO SAVE A LIFE, SO I MAINTAIN THAT ABORTION IS NOT NECESSARY.
“it seems like an unnecessary risk” – at least 9 times safer than delivery. DISPUTED. NONE OF THE DATA STREWN IN THIS THREAD IS VERIFIED. ANYHOW, DELIVERY OF A CHILD, DEAD OR ALIVE, IS NECESSARY. ABORTION IS NOT.
“And the apparent increased risk of breast cancer.” – discredited. STILL DISPUTED BY CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. THAT’S WHY I SAID “APPARENT.” SINCE CONTRACEPTION IS CAUSING AN EPIDEMIC OF BREAST CANCER, IT IS DIFFICULT TO TELL WHETHER OR NOT ABORTION IS AGGRAVATING THE PROBLEM.
“Not to mention the increased incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and other emotional problems.” – fallacious. ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONIES OF POST-ABORTIVE WOMEN, THESE ARE REAL CONSEQUENCES OF ABORTION.
Gosh darn it, Reality! If you truly care about women, you have to look at the real consequences of abortion — even if you think abortion is necessary and good, and you don’t care about the killing of the children. Abortion hurts women, and it does not help women when the problems are ignored!
If you have to, go to the top of the post and look at the picture of Jennifer again. Remember Tonya Reaves. They are dead, because so many people like you keep saying that abortion is safe.
Carhart has been in my backyard now for a little over two years. The man has killed 1300 babies here in Germantown since he arrived in Dec 2010. Now he has taken the life of a beautiful Mother, wife, daughter, sister. Every Monday morning there is a prayerful, peaceful presence of many who storm heaven with their prayers. Tomorrow, there will be many of us. Please pray to end this atrocty, but also pray for us, all the prayer warriors, who are up there at the abortion clinic rain or shine, snow or sleet. We pray that this will be the end of Carharts days here in Germantown.
Read the obituary. If the abortionist were mentioned, bet there would be an outcry. Just the way Deborah Cardamone laid out Marla!
“You are the only proabort that has ever expressed ANY remorse(?)over a death of a young mother by a “safe, legal and rare” abortion!” – I didn’t see the link to the medical report telling us exactly what happened, where is it?
“As a rule they stay away from threads like this.” – things can go wrong with even the simplest medical procedures. Women have died from abortion. They die at a greater rate from delivery. There’s still no justifiable basis by which that should give rise to the banning of abortion.
“And yes. Jon has an excellent follow up question!” – “How about the loss of a vital baby girl?” Sounds like the fetus may not have been quite so vital.
“At what age does a vital person’s death become tragic to you?” – when they’re a person Jon.
Are you a person, Reality? Carla thinks you have shown a little humanity.
“I MAINTAIN THAT ABORTION IS NOT NECESSARY” – that would be subjective then.
“NONE OF THE DATA STREWN IN THIS THREAD IS VERIFIED” – CDC and numerous other countries around the world.
“STILL DISPUTED BY CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.” – yes, credible scientific analysis disputes the claims of a link between abortion and breast cancer.
“THESE ARE REAL CONSEQUENCES OF ABORTION” – correlation is not causation.
“Abortion hurts women,” – it helps more.
“and it does not help women when the problems are ignored!” – of course not.
“They are dead, because so many people like you keep saying that abortion is safe.” – if it weren’t for abortion there’d be even more such pictures.
Jennifer and her baby died on Thursday. If the clinic was licensed the day before she died, it would have been unlicensed when the procedure was initiated (Sunday).
A participant in another forum related that her physician told her that under the new reimbursement rules (it wasn’t clear if these are specific to Medicare or have a broader application under Obamacare) physicians will not be reimbursed for treatment of patients who are deemed to be non-compliant. This will, of course, lead to the doctors “firing” the patients. While there are many horrendous implications to this, consider cases where the physician recommends abortion due to birth defects: if the parents refuse, will the child be refused medical treatment for the abnormalities that triggered the recommendation? For example, a child with a cleft palate won’t be covered by insurance for the surgeries necessary to treat this very correctable condition?
I pray that Madison’s family realizes their sin and repents.
Reality says:
February 10, 2013 at 11:00 pm
Del, don’t get confused between ‘rates’ and ‘numbers’.“Pro-life saves women’s lives.” – that simply isn’t true.
I’ll take a break from trading snarks with you, since you are making some reasonable remarks here.
I’m down with the math, and I get the difference between rates and numbers. Just not enough real data here to prove any points, and combox attention space is small.
I offer one piece of real evidence: In Ireland, they have a remarkably low rate of maternal deaths due to childbirth. They also have the absolute lowest rates of abortion and deaths due to abortion, because abortion is not legal there.
I think we can conclude from Ireland’s example that pro-life laws save lives, and abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival. There are better ways to invest in keeping mothers safe and healthy.
Reality, can you explain why it is that not a single Planned Parenthood in the country bothers to inform women that oral contraceptives are a group one carcinogen, and increase a young parous woman’s chances of getting breast cancer 44%?
How about how effective getting an abortion is at causing preterm births later in life? 36% for one abortion, 48% for two, and so on.
WHY?
(note: Our preterm birth rate has doubled, and our breast cancer rate has tripled)
“In Ireland, they have a remarkably low rate of maternal deaths due to childbirth.” – do you know why? Did you know that many countries have lower maternal death rates than the US, including those where abortion is both legal and common?
“They also have the absolute lowest rates of abortion and deaths due to abortion” – no, they have the lowest numbers of abortion and deaths due to abortion. There probably aren’t enough abortions to accurately determine a death rate.
Therefore “I think we can conclude from Ireland’s example that pro-life laws save lives,” is erroneous.
and
“abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival.” – yet the stats say the opposite.
can you explain why it is that no woman I know, parous or not, has been informed by her doctor that oral contraceptives are a group one carcinogen?
“How about how effective getting an abortion is at causing preterm births later in life?” – maybe because there is no direct evidence.
“Our preterm birth rate has doubled, and our breast cancer rate has tripled” – what about the obesity rate? How about diet and lifestyle changes over the decades? What about environmental factors?
My children are now grown, happy, productive people who are making this world a better place. I wonder what great things all those little babies would have done if they had not received their angels wings before they even had a chance at life. It seems to me that by the very nature of being human beings that none of us is perfect. We each have our own mental, emotional, and physical flaws. I often wonder if people who support abortion would have been okay with the idea of their own mother aborting them.
If you want to know about abortion in Ireland, look at England’s statistics since that is where Irish women go to get elective abortions. And I’m sure the woman who died unnecessarily recently wouldn’t say Ireland’s abortion stance was pro-life for women just for the fetus that wasn’t going to live anyway.
Sean: Use of birth control pills actually reduces the risk for certain cancers and the only ones who say it’s a carcinogen are pro-life sites. Why is it that people who abhor abortion also want to make most forms of birth control illegal or unacceptable as well? Birth control reduces the risk of unintended pregnancy, therefore lessens the abortion rate. That should make everyone happy.
No one, no matter what their stand is on abortion, ever wants to see a young woman die from a surgical procedure, pregnancy. Accusing everyone who supports abortion rights of being “pro-abortion” is nonsense. I know many women who support abortion rights but who would never get an abortion themselves.
#Dell: you wrote:
Since abortion is always an unnecessary choice, it seems like an unnecessary risk. There are several dead mothers each year. Plus the many who are rushed to emergency rooms with perforated uteri, profuse bleeding, and incomplete removal of fetal parts. Then there are the many who are rendered infertile. And the ones who have difficulty carrying future children to term. And the apparent increased risk of breast cancer. Not to mention the increased incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, and other emotional problems.
I disagree about abortion being necessary, it can be and that is up to the individual woman to decide, not you. In some cases there is a legitimate medical reason for abortion and yes I know that those abortions are not as common as elective ones, but sometimes a woman’s life is endangered by continuing a pregnancy.
If the things you stated as complications of abortion were common or even true, there would not be legal abortion in most countries of this world. Medical experts, not social or political activists, have decided abortion is a safe procedure when performed properly and again, all surgeries have risks. People die from getting a tooth pulled, die from minor surgeries. My daughter-in-law nearly died not once but three times from surgery to correct previous surgeries, all in a nice, clean safe hospital. And my aunt died from being pregnant. It happens, that’s a risk we all take when we have surgery.
Worldwide approximately 350,000 women die from pregnancy every year, America’s maternal mortality rate is the highest of all industrialized countries. It can be dangerous to be pregnant.
I pray for Jennifer’s family and husband and hope that their loss will cause them to re-examine themselves. I cannot feel sorry for them though, as they were all adults who knew what abortion was and the risks included; especially at such a late stage of pregnancy. I do feel sorry for their daughter, who never had the chance to know her mother’s touch or feel loved.
Almost six years ago I was in a very similar situation. I had a twin pregnancy after many years of trying. At the 20 week ultrasound, the doctors said I had one healthy boy, and one unhealthy boy who had severe genetic anomalies. The dr’s recommended aborting my son who was sick every week after that until I delivered. Which was a short seven weeks later (27 weeks). I think the stress of the ultrasounds had something to do with that, but that’s another story.
Don’t think for a second that many US doctors don’t push abortion. Why they thought the benefits of a 20+ week single abortion in a twin pregnancy outweighed the many risks, I don’t know. Maybe they don’t want to deal with the stress and want the “problem” to go away. Maybe they just really like abortion. I don’t know.
I am now the mommy to a little Saint in heaven, one healthy 5 year old boy, and two younger children. I have no regrets and only look forward to the day I’ll get to see my son again. I have peace.
The solution is universal: BAN MEDICAL GRADE ASSAULT WEAPONS from the bloody hands of nurses, midwives and other abortionists to end the deaths of the next BILLION children slightly younger than Sandy Hook kids. What goes on in the head controls what’s in the hands
One wonders why this mother just did not have her wanted daughter. Even if the little girl died later, they would have had that precious time together, rather than having that time cut short. In this case, both ended up dying.
Abortion has become a free-for-all that should see much stricter regulation. It is a sad state of affairs when a woman can decide she doesn’t want her child weeks before delivery and a doctor agrees to support that decision and kill an unborn child. What has America come to?
So how do you feel about guns Len?
And worldwide, an estimated 50 million children are killed each year by abortion.
Provy — I still don’t get what logical connection you are trying to make by mentioning the dangers and risks of being pregnant.
Are you trying to say that pregnancy is a dangerous condition which women should avoid, and therefore we must make abortion readily available to save women from pregnancy?
Meanwhile, you say that all surgeries are dangerous, and we just have to accept the risks of abortion — because it is a surgical procedure?
I don’t think you have thought your position clearly through.
Truth is, abortion was not permitted to us by medical professionals, because they suddenly concluded that abortion is safe. Abortion was pushed upon us by social and political activists — just as slavery and eugenics and the Nazi Holocaust were pushed by social activists in their time.
We are doing good social work by reminding the culture that children in the womb are persons entitled to human rights. And as it turns out, tragically and once again, that we could have saved this woman’s life if we had restored protection to all human life.
“I cannot feel sorry for them though, as they were all adults who knew what abortion was and the risks included; especially at such a late stage of pregnancy. ”
Pretty cold. They obviously thought that was their best option, and were probably grief-stricken at the news of their child’s medical problems. I can see why they would be easily led to see abortion as the best option in that situation, especially if they were pro-choice (with everything that goes along with that), or only nominally pro-life.
I’m just really sad for this family, especially for Jennifer and her daughter Madison.
I might be missing something, but the investigation isn’t complete is it? We don’t know that this death was due to medical malpractice or anything to do with Carhart, whether she had a previously diagnosed or unknown condition that was the cause of this death, or whether the abortion was performed “correctly” but she was the one in every thousand that die from that “procedure”.
I just ask because it seems like people are saying a lot of things like Carhart should be sued for malpractice and such, when it seems like we don’t really have all the facts. Just seems premature.
Actually Del, it was social and political activists who ended slavery, gave blacks and women the vote, decriminalized homosexuality and many other improvements in society. Slavery and the holocaust were not brought about by what could be termed ‘social and political activists’, rather it was actual politicians.
“We are doing good social work by reminding the culture that children in the womb are persons entitled to human rights” – not ‘reminding’, ‘claiming’.
“we could have saved this woman’s life if we had restored protection to all human life.” – you have absolutely no evidence for that.
Abortionist are nothing more than Murderers who will have to face Jesus one day, just before they are tossed into the Lake of Fire! All babies are a Gift from God and should be treated as such. To destroy a life so cold heartedly says a lot about the person getting the abortion. I do agree with Incest and Rape abortions, but that is all that should be allowed!
+
Tragic. I wonder who referred her to Carhart?
Let’s pray for a 40 Days for Life campaign, a Helpers of God’s Precious Infants group or other comparable efforts in front of every abortion “facility” in our world.
Jennifer is another woman who didn’t want an abortion, got brow beaten into an unwanted abortion, and then ended up dead. It’s becoming an all too common path to death. It seems when a woman dies of abortion, often she is either an ethnic minority, disabled in some way, or she doesn’t want an abortion but has been forced or brow beaten into it, or made to feel she has no choice.
I can imagine three types of women that abortionists hate and would want to kill. Minorities, the handicapped, and women who are less than enthusiatic or uncooperative in the abortion process. It always seems that when these women die, they belong to one or more of these three groups.
Tonya Reeves was a 23 year old black woman who was killed in a Planned Parenthood clinic last summer. She was allowed to hemorahage for 5 1/2 hours before the staff bothered to do anything for her. Then they didn’t bother with 911, but ordered much inferior help than that. They also didn’t bother to tell the hospital what they knew about Tonya and her condition. To allow the patient to hemorhage for over 5 hours is so negligent as to be almost deliberate murder. Did Tonya call out for help at any time during that 5 hours? Hard to imagine she didn’t, but it didn’t do her much good.
Planned Parenthood is known for laying the heavy sell on women to get them to abort, whether they want to or not. They lay guilt and shame on women who resist the pressure. They have sales pitches for women who are already mothers, telling them they need to save their energy and money to care for the child they already have. They attack all other options as unworkable. Many women who don’t want abortions succumb to the pressure and abort.
It seems the ones who don’t want abortions end up dead in many cases.
A participant in another forum related that her physician told her that under the new reimbursement rules (it wasn’t clear if these are specific to Medicare or have a broader application under Obamacare) physicians will not be reimbursed for treatment of patients who are deemed to be non-compliant.
Jerry: What was the other forum? I’d like to read that. Thank you.
@reality, you’re right that quackery that kills women isn’t a reason in itself to criminalize abortion. But it ought to be reason enough for prochoicers to start taking the risks seriously and at least vetting people before proclaiming them as heroes, don’t you think?
Some of the comments here have really confused me. Where did St Jude’s come in? Jennifer was from New Rochelle NY and went to Germantown MD for the abortion. She was taken to a local hospital about, 9 miles from the clinic, NOT named St Jude’s. Someone mentioned pulmonary embolism or deep vein thrombosis, and another mentioned heavy bleeding, yet I don’t see that in Jill’s article at all. An RN MSN was upset about people showing medical records, but I must have missed that, also, because the only mention of them in Jill’s article that I see is where the Medical examiner was called (A MUST IN unexplained deaths such as this one would be) and the ME spent 4.5 hours with the records… not at all unusual when they have to investigate a suspicious death. That IS their job.
So… can someone point me to where I may have missed reading all of this?
I wonder how many women are encouraged by their doctors to get abortions? One of my neighbors just had a grandson. She told me that the doctors recommended an abortion because the child had defects. There was nothing wrong with that baby boy.
What really makes me disgusted is the feminists talk of “reproductive rights.” Since when is murder a right? They claim there’s a war on women but won’t ever mention how Islam treats women.
Christiana Dunigan: You mentioned: perinatal hospice. Please post a link to this ministry. (if there is one). I am vaguely aware of quilts for such, but no longer have even that website. Thank you.
Reality,
Hmmmmmmmm. Are you an abortionist?
Jack,
Please do your homework on Carhart. This is not the first young woman he has killed.
If doctors are proabortion we shouldn’t be surprised that instead of referring and reassuring young parents with resources, other parents that have been in similar circumstances or life affirming alternatives they promote ABORTION.
Terminate.
Terminate.
Terminate.
Did you really feel that giving this woman’s personal information was necessary? What about all her students, little children who are struggling through her loss? I hope they never see this page. There was enough sadness without causing her family any more with this story.
Jennifer is another woman who didn’t want an abortion, got brow beaten into an unwanted abortion, and then ended up dead.
Are you just making things up now, or what?
Where did St Jude’s come in? Jennifer was from New Rochelle NY and went to Germantown MD for the abortion.
St. Jude’s came up because the obituary requested donations to St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital in lieu of flowers. Why they made that request is no one’s business but the family, but it is not uncommon for families to request donations to, for example, one of the major cancer research centers if the deceased died from cancer. A logical inference in this case is that St. Jude’s is involved in a research project intended to improve treatment of or prevent the fetal condition that led to the abortion, or just fetal health in general.
Her students are in kindergarten. But maybe they will learn someday the tragedy of her death and her daughter’s death by abortion and they will become prolife in memory of their beloved teacher.
Abortion kills. That is the truth. We can have them but if something goes wrong we shouldn’t talk about it??
Reality says: “They die at a greater rate from delivery.”
“CDC”
REALITY, serious questions. If you choose to ignore you’ll be exposed as a coward and a troll.
1) Why do you feel confident that abortion is “safe” when the medical procedure has no mandatory reporting (CDC numbers are junk) and adverse outcomes are not tracked?
2) Since adverse outcomes are not tracked and there have been specific, known instances of abortion deaths being recorded as maternal deaths, why do you feel confident saying abortion is more safe than childbirth?
3) If you care about women and you have the balls to handle the truth of the horrors that WOMEN are subjected to because people like YOU don’t care enough to MANDATE that a legal medical procedure be subjected to sufficient inspections and reporting, watch this four part series on Youtube and tell me what YOU are going to do to make sure that these horrors are never repeated. Here’s a link to part #1, you can find the other 3 easily:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iF65nv2B3k
You owe it to the women in your life to stop being a glib, head-in-the-sand pro-abort and GET THE TRUE FACTS. And when you discover that the “representative” facts you so crave about abortion AREN’T available because of the shroud of SECRECY the abortion industry keeps (which you’ll know about specific instances of this if you had the guts to watch the 4 part series), YOU should be demanding BETTER for WOMEN.
None of the above require that you give a crap about the unborn, because I know you don’t. I’m presuming you actually might care about the women that “inhabit this earth”. And if you do, you should be able to answer my questions. Yes, they might require some time and thought. Aren’t women worth it?
This is right near my home….so very sad. I do not know if it is true that a priest was involved but it would not surprise me. We do retreats for couples who aborted because of adverse diagnosis. Many couples I have worked with who had adverse diagnosis went to clergy of all faiths and out of false compassion they supported the couples decision or told them in this case it would be alright.
We need to pray for them too, that they understand what it is they are really doing and that this is false compassion. I have had many of the couples return to the priest after to tell them in a loving way that they were wrong to support this…it has led to many of them understanding… Many prayers for all. Lord havemercy!
This is why I hate these search destroy these search and destroy prenatal tests. When this broke I was at a woman’s conference where Angie Smith told of carrying a baby to term that had a condition that was “incompatible with life” and getting to spend two hours with her until she died.
Why would her family take her to such a place? We don’t know what the abnormalities are do we??
sorry if I repeat something that has already been said
I will NOT support St Jude’s due to their ambiguous position regarding Embryonic Stem Cell Research. I would presume that since most of us here support life from conception through natural death, that we understand the preborn lives being lost via ESCR.
http://www.all.org/charities?page=5#St._Jude_Children%27s_Research_Hospital
“ BAN MEDICAL GRADE ASSAULT WEAPONS”
Len – put that on this shirt http://www.abort73.com/gear/shirts/tools_of_mass_destruction/
A doctor brought up abortion while I was pregnant with my third baby because I have a uterine fibroid.
Still have the fibroid. Still have the baby. He’s 16.
Reality says that in Ireland, ”There probably aren’t enough abortions to accurately determine a death rate.”
What you mean women don’t NEED abortion in Ireland?
I’ve always thought Reality sounds like an abortionist as well.
Lest we forget.
A late term abortion is a 3-4 day procedure. Inject the baby’s heart to kill her. Insert laminaria to ripen the mother’s cervix. Send woman back to a hotel room with her family to wait and deliver a dead baby.
Hardly an “emergency” and where was Carhart? Was he monitoring her?
I know I am asking questions without answers at this point. But I find this so absolutely SENSELESS. It didn’t have to be this way.
Quite a few of my dearest friends have walked through a poor prenatal diagnosis. Once the shock wore off and they dealt with the FEAR they carried their babies as long as they could and held, kissed, rocked and loved them until they died.
THAT is how we value life. THAT is how we uphold the sanctity of ALL life.
This is really sad. I hope that her family desides to speak out about this tragedy, instead of trying to sweep it under the rug to save face with their “church.” The obituary claims they both suddenly died together. Already, this is a lie. The baby had been dead inside her for days. What I’m wondering is if she still had not delivered the baby when she died? Again, very tragic and facts need to be set straight. Let us ALL learn from this unnecessary destruction of two lives. Let us NOT forget those left living to cope with this terrible loss, and the guilt, shame and blame that comes with it. They could save other women and children from this monsterous practice by speaking up about it!
So sad that this had to happen at all. God tests us to see if we really do trust in him. It is not up to us to decide if a baby with fetal anomalies has to die or not. We are to Love the babies we are given and raise them up according to God’s rules. My sympathies go out to the family, and will pray that all abortionist are brought to justice for the awful acts they do every day. And that all abortion clinics, back street ally abortion clinics are shut down, and no more killing of babies ever. :-( So sad!!!!!!!
Provy O’Dell,
Please correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t find anywhere that you address my question concerning the licensing and inspection of abortion clinics.
Also, you say that be being pro abortion rights doesn’t mean one approves of abortion or would have one. Does this apply across the board? For instance, is it ridiculous to suggest that everyone who is pro slavery ownership is also pro slavery? Can one oppose slavery yet support the right of another to own a slave?
What’s so wrong with abortion that people just don’t want to say they are for it?
I’m sorry, but I fail to understand how this woman is a victim? She willingly went in and had her 33 week old baby murdered. As a mother it makes me sick to my core any woman can murder (aka abort) their child for ANY reason.
I also saw comments how this somehow wasn’t her choice but forced on her, she was 29 years old with children, she was educated and she knew exactly what she as doing. I myself had a molar pregnancy, I carried the pregnancy longer than most to make sure there was without a doubt not a baby. I chose a pro-life OB/GYN and a pro-life hospital to help me care for the pregnancy. They gave me a ultra sound at 10 weeks right before the DNC to ensure them and myself there was no heartbeat and no child. I had a complete molar pregnancy and a baby never formed, a heart beat was never heard but only a tumor forming rapidly growing causing my uterus to swell to the size of 14 weeks. It was a devastating experience and I didn’t even have a formed baby (my egg was void of DNA so a baby couldn’t form, the placenta had no baby to feed so it turned into a blood sucking tumor), how can a woman abort a 33 week old, living child?!? I will never be able to understand or have sympathy for these women. An ignorant, scared uniformed young woman is one thing, she is a product of a warped twisted society, but a 29 year old educated, married mother? No, sorry, you don’t have my sympathy and you won’t get my donations in your honor.
Now her family has to live with the horror of their poor decision to support the murder of this child, thus resulting in the murder of their daughter/wife/sister/niece/cousin. What a sad thing to have to live with the rest of your life. To take your loved one to a extermination camp and loose both your loved one and the innocent child. Sad, sad, sad.
I do however hope she made her peace and repentance with her maker so that she could at least join her child heaven, I really truly hope she did.
I am praying for you Rebecca.
Does any one know the babies that would of be alive today If abortion were never made leagal, When someone is giving that choice to make and for what ever reason pick it over life. I just know alot of babies would be alive today if not for that choose. May God help this family, because of their guilt, shame over the needless loss of a beautiful daughter, wife. And help those that have so much blood on their hand’s that perform the basic human right to life. For they will have much to answer for before God. Why do people protest and protect the life of every animal and speices but not a fetus. God Help us.
Rebeccah — No. We must not assume that Jennifer was fully informed enough to make such a monstrous decision.
I will bet everything I own that she was told that her child would suffer from some defect.
She was told that abortion was painless and merciful for the child.
She was told that caring for a disabled child would be expensive and difficult. She was told that this would be the best choice for everyone.
She was told that abortion is safe and easy.
She prayed and hoped for wisdom and a miracle.
But in the end, all of that bad advice (and fear and pressure) led her to this sad end. We must love her, and never forget that every abortion has two victims.
Rebecca,
God told me it was OK for Jennifer to abort him. No repentance necessary. Have a good day.
And this so called “Dr.” took the hippocratic oath that contains the words-and never do harm to anyone.-And what a torture for the husband, that he must live with allowing his wife to do this, for the rest of his life.
Del,
You make a good point and I see what you are saying.. But I am 29 years old and I simply don’t understand how you can’t be informed at that age. Maybe you are right, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. She is a educated teacher, looks like she had a nice family, I did assume she would be more informed and would of researched her options better. But, you make a good point that she may have been coerced by fear which I agree is a powerful tool.
I do feel she is a victim of poor choice and a twisted, morally corrupt society. But, and a BIG but, she participated in the murder of her unborn child, a child that was 33 weeks, moving inside her. That I will never understand, as a mother I could never abort my child regardless of their issues, it would be the card I was dealt and I would deal with it. I fell in love the moment I saw two lines on a pregnancy test, and with my first pregnancy I wasn’t educated at all in abortion, it simply never crossed my mind. I didn’t educate myself in abortion until I was 25 years old, it was kinda of out of sight out of mind for me before then. But when I knew I was pregnant I became a mother that instant and that little precious life became more important than my own. That is why I will never relate to anyone who can abort their child, I can feel sorrow for their situation, but I can’t relate to removing a life by force. I believe the devil is the master of confusion and blinds people and we must keep shining a light on this darkness to open their eyes to this genocide happening everyday.
I feel nothing but pure sadness for her, her family and her innocent child. She made a very poor decision and paid the ultimate price, that is so very sad and even sadder to think her family was beside her supporting her in this decision. It honestly makes me feel sick for them, not mad, but very sorrowful. Hopefully they will take her story and share it with the world to educate others to not make the same bad decision they did costing them stolen time with their loved ones.
Could someone kindly point out to me where it says her medical records were made public? Thank you.
Why oh why would you abort at this stage? Just because the little one had “anomalies” does not mean she couldn’t go to term. I am sad for the whole family. Unfortunately, though she decided to kill her viable child and paid the ultimate price for that choice.
This is why late-term abortions need to be performed in hospitals, despite your protesting.
The answer to unsafe abortions is not to abort children “safely” but to stop killing children. -Randy Alcorn
I could hug you Del.
The pressure to abort is beyond belief in a a situation of a poor prenatal diagnosis. The parents I mentioned to you?
They were asked EVERYSINGLETIME they had an appointment if they were ready to “terminate their pregnancy” yet. As they worked through their fear and shock and grief they had to continually answer NO to their proabortion docs who offered no HOPE for them.
Maybe, just maybe, her whole family, her husband and her doctors only offered and talked abortion as the “solution” as “the best thing.” What support did she have to deliver her child???
We mourn with those who mourn and grieve with those who grieve.
So very sad and tragic that an unborn baby with health problems had to die this way before even taking her first breath.There have been instances where an aborted baby has actually been found to have been perfectly formed and of perfect health and tho i do not know what was wrong with little Madison i personally believe she should have been given the chance of life. My own opinion is her parents were scared of a disabled/ill child but Madison could have been capable of giving her parents so much in possibly a short period of time…May she rest in peace in the good lords arms…Sweet dreams little Madison….xxxx
@Mary:
I didn’t say that people who were pro-choice had an issue with abortion, obviously they don’t. What I said was assuming that everyone who is pro-choice was pro-abortion was wrong. There are many people who believe abortion should be legal but also think there should be limits and agreeing with legal abortion doesn’t mean that those women would personally get an abortion themselves. My granddaughters are all pro-choice, including the 22 yr old who got pregnant before getting married last spring, she didn’t get an abortion, she was thrilled and he was born last month. And I’m just don’t understand why people want to correlate abortion with slavery, entirely different issues.
I have always supported licensing, inspection of abortion clinics, as long as they are not expected to be judged as mini-hospitals and regulations aren’t imposed simply to force them to close their doors. Back in the mid-1990’s there was an abortion clinic in Suitland, Maryland run by a woman (not a doctor) who did not run a safe facility and there were deaths and a brain injury, the pro-choice escort group (WACDF) went out to the clinic several Saturday mornings and directed women to other clinics, much to the delight of the local pro-life protestors. We drove them to other places, arranged in advance with other clinics to see them and at her low prices. We had her (clinic owner) sit down and tried to talk to her – which wasn’t successful. The authorities did investigate and she was shut-down. So pro-choice people do care very much what happens to women in abortion clinics.
That is just heartbreaking for the family. I wish they had chosen differently, but they are in my prayers and thoughts. I am so sorry this happened.
Provy O’Dell, is the World Health Organization a “pro-life” group? Who knew? They’re the ones who labeled the pill a group 1 carcinogen.
I would just like to congratulate Lisa on being the first person I’ve ever seen break 100 likes on this site.
Abnormalities as an excuse? Sorry, but if you would not kill a disabled infant, toddler, child whatever, what makes you think it is okay to do it mere weeks before birth? She was 33 weeks for God’s sake! The family refers to the child by name. They appear to mourn Madison. In death they are treating her the way she ought to have been treated- as a person. But then why be the cause it? Apparently, some think it’s acceptable to slaughter the disabled. To me, there’s absolutely no difference from what this family did than going up to a newborn disabled baby who you pitied or didn’t want to take care of and just kill it. No discernable moral difference at all. I hope the mom was able to repent before she took her last breath. God have mercy on all of us.
This whole situation makes me sick, I just can not imagine what news would of made anyone want to consider this as an option at 33 weeks. If the baby was to pass naturally, why not allow her to go and be with God in her own time..then grieve, and try again. I know plenty of women who have been given the opportunity at 20 weeks to abort their child because of the baby being born with Trisomy 18 and chose NOT TO because they felt it was not their choice. While in my heart I know I should pray for this family, I can not imagine how they made this such a family affair…Such sadness..
Am I really the only person who finds it abhorrent that this woman’s name/photo has been published and that folks who didn’t know her in life are leaving comments on her family’s memorial page? Do you really think this will make her family go, oh, wow, prolife organizations are so awesome. We really should be prolife!
NO. it’s going to make them think we’re a bunch of opportunistic freaks. This is shameful and will overshadow what should be our actual goal of shutting Carhart down for the murders he committed.
Cara and Toni,
Do you have any idea of the pressure of family, friends and doctors to abort?
Any idea at all?
It is done. They are both gone and now we need to pray for this family. I can’t even imagine their depth of grief.
jenn, that’s just the way some people who consider themselves prolife are. They really want to shame people, even when those individuals are dead. If they truly cared about her, they wouldn’t even politicize a memorial page.
I have to agree with Jenn–lots of people will be trying to contact her family, either by letter, phone, or even, God forbid, showing up at their doorstep. However well-meaning most of these people may be, the last thing I would want directly after the death of my spouse, sibling or child would be a bunch of total strangers who didn’t even know my loved one trying to insert themselves in my personal life and make me part of some cause. While I would think and hope that most people on this board would never dream of doing that, the internet is full of all kinds and some of these people will not respect this family’s privacy or give them space to grieve.
Why is everyone so mad at the doctor, when it is the state of Maryland that allows these late abortions? There are always doctors who do their job well, and others who do not. In this case, maybe the doctor didn’t do his job well, and if that’s the case, the surviving husband should be suing for mal-practice. But we don’t have the facts. And the doctor is allowed to perform this type of abortion, because the law says he can. Got a problem with that? Write your Congressman. It’s a better way to deliver your message and change the system than praying to God. Use your time efficiently people!
I believe we need to pray for ALL involved, including Carhart. It’s not too late for him to see the light and turn away from this evil. Life is so precious and must be protected. What a terrible loss. My heart grieves.
I’m deeply saddened by the death of this woman. I’m even more saddened by the fact that she would kill her precious and wanted child b/c someone in a white coat told her it was “abnormal”, whatever that means. Unfortunatelly, we live in a culture that sees children as status symbols and extentions of their parent’s ambition, a world where the “abnormal” do not fit the bill. Shame. Unless you’re prepared to parent whatever comes your way, then perhaps it’s best to adopt or simpy forgo taking the gamble that you may get a special needs child. Would having an “abonormal” child be worse than the horrific death by mangled abortion?
Dan
Are you talking about Carhart?
He is no doctor. He is a back alley hack who kills babies and women for profit because he obviously couldn’t make it as a real DOCTOR!
I am deeply saddened that “Mom for Life” uses the word “fact” when describing a reason that Jennifer wanted an abortion without knowing Jennifer at all.
Carla,
Yes, that is the guy I am talking about. I don’t agree with his business, but complaining on a mesage board and praying to God that his business will stop won’t get your mission accomplished. Don’t blame him for being a capitalist. Change the laws.
Provy O’Dell
Whether slavery correlates with abortion is a matter of perspective. My question was does being pro-choice apply across the board? Can one also argue that one opposes slavery yet at the same time supports the “right” of another to own a slave? This dichotomy was brought out in the movie “Lincoln” so apparently the “pro-choice” argument was used around 150 years by those who would not impose their anti-slavery morality on others. After all, no one was forced to own a slave. I think its a perfectly logical argument, don’t you?
I’m old enough to remember pre and post Roe. Now, the favorite argument of those advocating for the legalization of abortion was that clinics would be licensed, regulated, and staffed by licensed medical personnel. The horror stories of “illegal” abortion would be nothing more than a bad memory.
Instead, we have the horror story you describe in your 12:16PM post. You overlook the most important point. How did this place even exist? Where were NARAL and NOW? The criminal element was supposed to be put out of business, not given opportunities they never dreamed of. Did you and other PC people raise your voices against this place, knowing the deplorable conditions that existed and demand immediate state action? Did you arrange a boycott, hand out literature to women warning them of the danger? You think just escorting women somewhere else indicated your great concern for the safety of women? What about those who “slipped through”? Since she kept working until the state shut her down, obviously women were “slipping through”.
Well Provy, we now have 17 abortion clinics that were licensed before being inspected. I bet kennels in your community have to meet stricter standards than that. I have no doubt you and your group WACDF will be very vocal in your outrage and will demand immediate state action, along with NARAL and NOW, to change licensing and inspection standards.
Carla –
While I am lucky enough to NOT have experienced the pressure myself, I do know what my friend went through when her baby girl was diagnosed with T-18. She told me everything about how hard the Dr.s tried to get her to abort and how they even told her that if she didn’t they would not support the baby after she was born. I also know quite a few women who have had that pressure put on them and refused. The end result of this is that we just need to pray the laws change.
@ Dan – I think “Mom for Life” is stating that the fact is that this woman did decide to do this – you do not have to know someone to know that this is the FACT – that she did decide and lost her life because of it.
Hi jenn and Jennifer Starr,
You make excellent points. If anything, I would strongly discourage anyone who does not know this young woman or her family from making any comments, however tasteful and well intentioned, and I question the appropriateness of PL groups sending anything. I would think donating to the memorial fund would be acceptable, and it must be done respectfully and could be anonymous.
I have serious concerns about nutjobs out there who will get some sick satisfaction from harassing and/or threatening this woman’s family, as often happens with high profile situations.
Hi Toni and Carla,
Speaking of women pressured into abortion.
In the biography of the late actress Judy Garland, she became pregnant around 19y/o. She was married at the time and was ecstatic about her pregnancy. Apparently others, including her domineering stage mother, her husband, and the studio bosses were not. Judy was pressured into an abortion she did not want and from what I could read, spent her life bitterly resenting it, especially her mother. When Judy became pregnant with Liza Minelli, she made her resentment obvious with the comment (paraphrased) well, I see I finally have permission to have a baby.
If the child had fatal anomalies, why abort? Obviously this is very dangerous. I wonder if the baby had serious defects that would mean a very compromised life but would still live, maybe even to adulthood.
Also, when therapeutic abortion is actually indicated, you don’t have to go to a quack like Carhart. You can go to a regular hospital, as Jill can attest. The fact that she went to Carhart makes me think that neither her regular doctor nor the hospital would get on board. They probably didn’t want any part of this because they knew it was dangerous and unethical.
I hope all the children at the school find out exactly what happened. This case shows that legal abortion is not safe. That is a good lesson for kids to learn.
hi hippie,
I would wonder if her doctor advised her to just go to term at this point and she chose not to, that she did not want to wait, go through the birth process and deliver a child that would not survive. Who knows? This is speculation at best. Maybe she was in shock over the news, panicked, and sought out what she considered the best way to handle a very tragic situation.
I don’t disagree about the immense, unimaginable pressure to abort from doctors in many cases, but that is not deterministic – some women say no. They still have a choice. If they didn’t there would be no perinatal hospice or anyone with down’s syndrome, etc.
I do feel sympathy for this woman, but I also feel great respect for women who were able to take a stand. Ultimately I just wonder the differences between the two outcomes in terms of personalities, circumstances, and values, so that we can make more efforts to help more women choose life in these cases.
all the questions about this really bugged me. So many cannot seem to give a good suggestion as to why she didn’t just deliver the baby and let nature take it’s course. I’m sad to say that after turning this over and over in my head last night, I am thinking the “abnormality” that pushed her to make this awful decision was not a fatal thing, but rather would have been an inconvenient thing, or maybe an expensive or unattractive thing to cope with. Maybe the problem was that the baby would likely NOT die right away and they would be left with either the burden of caring for special needs child or the embarrassment of giving such a child up for adoption. Perhaps they went against their church’s teaching and planned to fake a miscarriage to save face.
That is just my speculation.
So sad.
I want to let people know that there are many many families who are willing to adopt babies with severe special needs, even knowing that they won’t live very long.
This little aborted baby could have been birthed and adopted and this family would still be intact and able to live at peace with their decision.
Here is a great organization who finds families for these little special needs babies. I get their newsletter. The stories are amazing. The families who step in and take these little unwanted ones are filled with joy and purpose.
Here is the link. The organization is CHASK and it is in Idaho http://www.chask.org/about-chask/.
Remember when the pro death people said that abortion should only be used in extreme cases for mothers who were terribly needy? In the past 15 years of counseling women I have been alarmed by how many married couples are choosing abortion. This family is a case in point.
I am really wondering what the diagnosis was for the baby and if we will ever find out if it was a correct one….so many prenatal predictions by doctors turn out to be wrong (even when using tests).
Jill Farris
It is unconscionable of the protesters to have stalked this poor women in the middle of a medical tragedy and of Jill Stanek to have released her name without the permission of her family. Everyone else trying to use her death without knowing the facts should be ashamed of themselves. This is absolutely horrific. Leave this woman’s family to mourn in peace.
I found out prenatally that my child had down syndrome. I was repeatedly pressured to terminate. We drove hours seeking prenatal care that valued my son’s life. The day he was born was one of the happiest of my life, despite my one dr telling me “we can’t let THIS happen again”. The pressure from drs is greater than you can imagine. We lost our beloved child due to medical issues shortly after his birth, but we don’t regret a single moment and would do it all over again. Women facing unexpected prenatal diagnosis need support, not the endless push to terminate. On organization that helped me and many other women is Prenatal Partners for Life. (prenatalpartnersforlife.org). They give support and encouragement for carrying to term with an adverse prenatal Diagnosis. They helped me after my Child died as well. they saw my child as a valued child of God, when Drs didnt. Please spread the word that these women are not alone- there is help and support from those who have been there, facing the same things. I grieve my son everyday. But my life is so blessed for having met him.
It is unconscionable of the protesters to have stalked this poor women in the middle of a medical tragedy and of Jill Stanek to have released her name without the permission of her family. Everyone else trying to use her death without knowing the facts should be ashamed of themselves. This is absolutely horrific. Leave this woman’s family to mourn in peace.
Yeah. The way they rushed that Savita article was pretty pathetic. Oh, wait. I forgot. It’s OKAY when YOU GUYS do it.
xalisae – I am 100% proudly prolife. I find it horrifying. Also, while I disagree with the way Savita’s story is being exploited, that was with the permission of her husband. It is interesting to me that the first story on this page makes a point to say “picture/name printed with permission.” Why doesn’t this woman’s family receive the same courtesy?
Hi folks
Is this ever hard to address. A surprise death (or deaths) are always an intrusion on life … no doubt that her pastor-priest will remind her family that ‘In death life is changed, not ended.’ It is horrible that she and her baby did die .. the reason(s) matter little; the abortionist,even less. too much grief … and they-wished-to-dodge-that-bullet; WE ALL DO!
JESUS DIED UNEXPECTEDLY TOO ….I do not know that it will help now, but it may help in time!
“JESUS DIED UNEXPECTEDLY TOO ….”
Lol what? I thought that was all planned.
“xalisae – I am 100% proudly prolife. I find it horrifying. Also, while I disagree with the way Savita’s story is being exploited, that was with the permission of her husband. It is interesting to me that the first story on this page makes a point to say “picture/name printed with permission.” Why doesn’t this woman’s family receive the same courtesy?”
I actually somewhat agree with you. I think it’s important to publicize bad things that happen in the abortion industry, but at the same time I think that the victim’s names should be left out unless the family gives permission.
I still think it’s premature to make any assumptions about how she died.
“If you choose to ignore you’ll be exposed as a coward and a troll.” – ha!
1) I did state that there are stats from other countries didn’t I.
2) ditto
3) I have said more than once that abortions should be done in hospitals, but you people will do all you can to stop that. Despite it being legal and in high demand you almost push it underground, minimizing the quality of facilities and scaring off the best medical people – therefore making it less safe.
Yes women are worth it. That’s why we need to keep people like you from interferring in their lives and choices and increasing the risk levels.
“What you mean women don’t NEED abortion in Ireland?” – you know better than that. How many travel to secure abortions? Why is there pressure to allow abortions in Ireland?
About 2 years ago my nephew and his wife were told their unborn baby’s left side of his brain was not developing and they should consider “termination”. Well, guess what it turned out not to be so. The baby boy walks, talks, does everything an 18 month should do. I will never forget his momma saying to me “Why did they put us through all of that worry?” Of course their families all prayed for a miracle and we choose to believe that that is why the baby is fine.I always wonder how many mothers choose abortion when there wasn’t any real reason to likein the case of my nephew and his wife.
This profound tragedy could’ve easily been prevented. I understand the pressure/guilt that “helpful” professionals can put on a well-intentioned expectant mother. Scary stories about fetal defects have no doubt doomed thousands of healthy babies to the murderous tools of their executioners (abortionists-the lowest scum of the earth). Before learning the details of this horrendous crime, I too was quick to judge, and even stated that this woman got what she deserved-God forgive me. We Christians, and I use the term generously, need to show love, grace, and empathy to this family. I can imagine how traumatic it must’ve been to the mother and father to make the fatal decision, especially when she has felt her precious baby kick and move within her, and because she has children. Think of the moments prior to the dreaded procedure. Torturous. Horrific. Stress beyond belief, because this was a baby who was wanted, named, and loved. To undergo an unwanted, painful, and murderous procedure when you’ve been anticipating the joy of a newborn baby must have been more than the mother could take. I venture the opinion that the mother died not only from internal bleeding from the butcher Carhart, but from a broken, regretful heart. I pray that through this heartbreaking tragedy, that millions of precious babies, and mothers, will be saved. And that sadistic serial murderers like the abortionist Carhart will be brought to justice.
While I hate her decision to abort her child, and agree that she is responsible before God for her actions, so are we all accountable to Holy God for our sinful lives. Remember that we will all be afforded the same mercy that we give to others, and will be forgiven in like measure as we forgive others. This suffering family needs the Love of Christ, not condemnation by those He intends to use for their healing…
Too bad Carharts mother didn’t have an abortion.
“Too bad Carharts mother didn’t have an abortion.”
Yeah, he should have totally been killed when he was still an innocent baby.
Wait, what?
Reality says:
1) I did state that there are stats from other countries didn’t I.
2) ditto
3) blah, blah, blah it’s the pro-lifers that make abortion unsafe. (paraphrased)
So you’re CONFIDENT saying abortion is safe and in fact safer than childbirth IN THE US because “stats from other countries”! You are a joke.
And it’s the ACTIONS of pro-lifers that make abortion unsafe? You obviously didn’t have the balls to watch EVEN ONE of the videos in the 4 part series. You’re a coward too.
this is so tragic. if it weren’t for this abortion both mom, and baby would still be alive. so many times doctors tests are wrong. My child was born with an abnomaly (skin tag on the neck) should I have aborted her?! this is precisely why I don’t take tests when pregnant to test for defects etc.. because all children are a gift of God, and I will keep it defect or no defect. not only that but I have heard stories where the tests have been wrong and caused a mom undue stress. If it weren’t for this test.. mom would have carried her to term. makes me sick.
“Kathy Morbelli, the dead woman’s mother-in-law, told The Journal News that she is extremely upset with the rhetoric swirling around the death of Morbelli and her unborn daughter, who was to be known as Madison Leigh.
‘They know she was a wanted baby, they know she was named,’ she said. ‘I just wish that the people could let my son, who is only 29 years old, mourn in peace….”
Jennifer Morbelli’s family should look into suing Jill Stanek for intentional infliction of emotional distress and invasion of privacy.
BTW “Reality”, what are YOU doing to ensure that your favorite legal medical procedure is SAFE for women? Simply saying “should be done in hospitals” doesn’t save a single life or eliminate a single Gosnell. What are you DOING about it? And how are you planning to fight Planned Parenthood, because you know they will NOT go along with the “should be done in hospitals”?
God forbid, when your daughter or granddaughter wants to exercise her prized “reproductive rights” you’ll be researching her chosen clinic/abortionist with information provided by PRO-LIFERS because the pro-choicers are too busy hiding the evidence. You won’t be able to go to the CDC or “stats from other countries” to know who to avoid. You’ll rely on the detective work of the organizations and people you claim are making abortion unsafe, to ensure the safety of someone you love.
Get your head out of the sand.
God have mercy on this kindergarten teacher who would kill her own unborn baby because she was imperfect.
“So you’re CONFIDENT saying abortion is safe and in fact safer than childbirth IN THE US because “stats from other countries”! – amongst a raft of other info, yes. Are you able to provide anything which says otherwise? No.
“You are a joke.” – the joke is the anti-choice inability to accept the truth.
“And it’s the ACTIONS of pro-lifers that make abortion unsafe?” – yes it is, as I explained.
“You obviously didn’t have the balls to watch EVEN ONE of the videos in the 4 part series.” – I started but quickly became bored with the same old rubbish being presented. Nothing different to what I hear here sometimes.
“You’re a coward too.” – no, and neither am I stupid.
“What are you DOING about it?” – everything I can to prevent abortion being no better than it was when illegal because of what the anti-choicers do.
“…with information provided by PRO-LIFERS” – fiction isn’t information.
I have said more than once that abortions should be done in hospitals, but you people will do all you can to stop that.
It’s not pro-lifers that object to hospital-like standards for abortion clinics or propose silly laws requiring anal probes for Viagra users in order to protest them. It’s not pro-lifers that gave the state of Maryland a grade of A for its policies.
Despite it being legal and in high demand you almost push it underground, minimizing the quality of facilities and scaring off the best medical people – therefore making it less safe. Yes women are worth it. That’s why we need to keep people like you from interferring in their lives and choices and increasing the risk levels.
No, the best medical people usually just aren’t interested in becoming abortionists. There are many legitimate medical procedures that are legal and in high demand, but don’t involve intentionally taking a human life. Mr. Carhart himself describes his practice in detail here. For some reason, I don’t think that a young medical student would find it very glamourous.
It doesn’t follow that it should be legal to kill human beings because some people die trying to kill others.
“What you mean women don’t NEED abortion in Ireland?” – you know better than that. How many travel to secure abortions?
You know better than that. The abortion rate is magnitudes lower for Ireland than it is for the U.K. or the U.S, even after you take that into account.
Your claim was that legalizing abortion is necessary to reduce maternal mortality. That cannot be true if there exists even a single country that has drastically reduced its maternal mortality without legalizing abortion.
Why is there pressure to allow abortions in Ireland?
Most of it seems to be coming from non-Irish lobby groups like Planned Parenthood and the Center for Reproductive Rights. I’m guessing that it’s because they don’t want evidence on the face of the planet that pro-life laws can work.
amongst a raft of other info
Do share! I know you don’t have the “representative” facts, since abortion stats aren’t mandatory and adverse outcomes aren’t tracked. Don’t you go presenting any of those “anecdotal” stories you reject.
yes it is, as I explained.
Subjective opinion.
I started but quickly became bored with the same old rubbish being presented. Nothing different to what I hear here sometimes.
Really? I must have missed the people here commenting on:
* anesthetizing patients without any medical training
* hiding “trouble” patients records in locked file cabinets to prevent discovery during unannounced inspections
* re-using cannulas without sterilizing between patients because it would take too long
* falsifying sterilization sleeves in case of unannounced inspection
* being asked to calm down the clinic staff after abortionist killed a baby born alive
* falsifying patient records to hide adverse outcomes
* leaving a patient to bleed out because abortionist didn’t want the ambulance called
* abortionists leaving the clinic with NO medically trained personnel on site while patients were still anesthetized.
You hear from clinic staff so often that the atrocities committed against the patients is “boring” “same old rubbish”?
Well, so much for a quick trip down to Maryland to kill the baby.
Now, the family is up in arms that everyone knows the whole family conspired to kill their less than perfect little one. THEY are up in arms?
The family has the audacity in the obituary to say that the baby died “unexpectedly”. UNEXPECTEDLY? You all went down to Maryland to KILL her! The only thing unexpected is that two people died instead of one.
“It’s not pro-lifers that object to hospital-like standards for abortion clinics” – thats not what I said.
“the best medical people usually just aren’t interested in becoming abortionists” – of course not, not when they know they’ll be pestered and harangued by a bunch of extremists.
“The abortion rate is magnitudes lower for Ireland than it is for the U.K. or the U.S, even after you take that into account.” – you know better than that. Not everyone can afford to undertake the necessary travel etc.
“Your claim was that legalizing abortion is necessary to reduce maternal mortality.” – I didn’t say it was necessary, I simply pointed out the facts.
“That cannot be true if there exists even a single country that has drastically reduced its maternal mortality without legalizing abortion.” – and how exactly do you draw that conclusion? THat is so completely non-evidential, or even indicative.
The fact is that the CDC data is accurate enough to demonstrate that there is a lower likelihood of maternal death from abortion than from childbirth. It is only anti-choice propaganda which questions it.
“I must have missed the people here commenting on:” – no, you didn’t miss it. You just accepted fantasy as fact.
“You hear from clinic staff so often” – well, not what I’d call ‘so often’.
“that the atrocities committed against the patients is “boring” “same old rubbish”” – of course it wouldn’t be boring or the same old rubbish if it were true. But it’s not, so it’s the lies which are boring and the same old rubbish.
Reality,
So the best medical people don’t work in the abortion industry because they fear harassment by extremists.
Reality, can you explain how some very dangerous areas in which to work, like emergency rooms that are located in gang infested areas, and military hospitals in war zones, attract some of the very best medical people?
Also, are you agreeing then that dregs and incompetents are what now staff abortion clinics, since you acknowledge the best medical people won’t work in them?
“you know better than that. Not everyone can afford to undertake the necessary travel etc.”
Reality, do you have hard numbers for how many women travel to England or wherever to get abortions?
We have numbers for maternal mortality being extremely low in Ireland. We have numbers that the abortion rate in Ireland is very low. The only way your claim makes sense, that legal elective abortion is necessary for low maternal mortality rates, is if you have some hard numbers showing that Irish women travel to obtain abortions to the extent that the numbers of abortions that they obtain is comparable to other countries with comparable rates of maternal mortality.
“…can you explain how some very dangerous areas in which to work…attract some of the very best medical people?” – because they’re not being pestered and harangued by extremists. They won’t have loons with placards shouting outside their church or their child’s school.
“are you agreeing then that dregs and incompetents are what now staff abortion clinics” – no, just not the very best, same as in all areas of medicine. But if you keep treating abortion as if it was still illegal then you may force it to that point.
Too bad Carharts mother didn’t have an abortion.
Too bad Carhart didn’t become a podiatrist. If abortion were illegal, maybe he would have.
Reality,
They’re not pestered and harassed by extremists—- LOL, they should be so lucky! No they just have to get from their cars to work under armed guard and hope patients don’t try to kill them or take them hostage. I worked on a surgical floor that cared for the occasional prisoner from the worst prison in the state. Let me tell you what stress is Reality. They would have thought nothing of cutting our throats or taking hostages, and we had to take care of these people.
Oh, just not the very best staff clinics. So tell us who staffs the clinics then Reality? Are they people you would want taking care of you or someone you love?
“Well, so much for a quick trip down to Maryland to kill the baby.
Now, the family is up in arms that everyone knows the whole family conspired to kill their less than perfect little one. THEY are up in arms?
The family has the audacity in the obituary to say that the baby died “unexpectedly”. UNEXPECTEDLY? You all went down to Maryland to KILL her! The only thing unexpected is that two people died instead of one.”
Paul I feel the same way!
What purpose is served by revealing her name and identity? Your own rules state:
Do not violate another’s privacy.
Do not post private personal information about yourself or others.
So it’s OK for you to violate your own rules? This is a tragic story, no matter how you look at it. It wasn’t necessary to reveal her name for the story to be a tragic one. My prayers and thoughts go out to her family.
This hit close to home for me because I am from White Plains, NY and I used to go through New Rochelle on a regular basis. My heart goes out to this family and this grieving husband. This barbaric craziness needs to stop.
Not everyone can afford to undertake the necessary travel etc.
IT’S NOT necessary travel, Charun.
I wish Jennifer was not able to come up with the money to travel to Germantown. ):
thats not what I said.
But you did say you were all about safety, which is why you think they should be done in hospitals. So logically, you would want the clinics to be regulated as hospitals if safety is really your main concern. And being an intellectually honest person, you would criticize organizations that reward states for having lax licensing standards.
because they’re not being pestered and harangued by extremists. They won’t have loons with placards shouting outside their church or their child’s school.
Right. Because legal, peaceful protests are more dangerous and intimidating than a war zone.
you know better than that. Not everyone can afford to undertake the necessary travel etc.
That’s right. And yet they’re not all dying in childbirth or back-alley abortions.
I didn’t say it was necessary, I simply pointed out the facts.
Calm down, I was just teasing! But yeah, you did.
and how exactly do you draw that conclusion? THat is so completely non-evidential, or even indicative.
The statement being reviewed is “abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival”. “Necessary” means that it’s impossible to reduce maternal mortality without abortion. We can get there as follows:
P1: If legalized abortion is necessary to improve maternal survival, then no country would be able to improve maternal survival without legalizing abortion.
P2: There exists at least one country without legalized abortion that has improved its maternal survival.
C: Legalized abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival.
P1 is a tautology, the argument is formally valid (universal linguistic assumptions aside), and P2 is supported by evidence. Thus C must also be true.
(see here if you’re having trouble understanding)
Perhaps it would be useful to look at a
FB page and blog of “The King Twins”….Conjoined twin girls whose parents were told they would never survive and that they should abort. As strong Christians they were devastated by the information but carried the pregnancy to term. The two sweet girls were welcomed by their mom and dad, got to meet their big sister and they died in their daddy’s arms 53 minutes after birth. A story all should read. An amazing, inspiring story of parents who had the opportunity to meet their girls and say goodbye with love and gifts and pictures. Hard. But they can live with themselves that they gave their girls all the love that a mom and dad could for the 53 minutes that God gave them. https://www.facebook.com/thekingtwins?fref=ts
Sorry Jack, I’ve been trying to post for about an hour but keep getting database error messages and failure to connect to this thread.
The UK department of health says that in excess of 150,000 Irish women had abortions in England and Wales between January 1980 and December 2011. There may be other sources but I don’t know how valid they might be.
“We have numbers for maternal mortality being extremely low in Ireland.” – yes we do and that’s great. There is absolutely nothing which demonstrates that it has anything to do with abortion being illegal and therefore very low in number.
“We have numbers that the abortion rate in Ireland is very low.” – yes we do.
“The only way your claim makes sense, that legal elective abortion is necessary for low maternal mortality rates, is if you have some hard numbers showing that Irish women travel to obtain abortions to the extent that the numbers of abortions that they obtain is comparable to other countries with comparable rates of maternal mortality.” – the situation in Ireland compared to countries where abortion is both legal and freely available is like comparing apples with oranges. There is no tangible basis on which comparisons can be made.
“However, medical procedure by medical procedure, abortion still remains among the safest today”
How can it be among “the safest” when someone always dies?
I don’t know for sure but my hunch is that the baby did NOT have a fatal condition . That would explain why she had an abortion so late in the pregnancy, because if she waited to deliver the baby, the baby might survive and she didn’t want a baby with abnormalities. This happens often with conditions such as spina bifuda,Down syndrome, trisomy 18, etc. people find out their unborn baby is not perfect, they don’t want to parent s child with special needs so they abort late in the pregnancy. Just a hunch
I don’t know for sure but my hunch is that the baby did NOT have a fatal condition . That would explain why she had an abortion so late in the pregnancy, because if she waited to deliver the baby, the baby might survive and she didn’t want a baby with abnormalities. This happens often with conditions such as spina bififa, down syndrome, trisomy 18, etc. people find out their unborn baby is not perfect, they don’t want to parent s child with special needs so they abort late in the pregnancy. Just a hunch
The fact is that the CDC data is accurate enough to demonstrate that there is a lower likelihood of maternal death from abortion than from childbirth. It is only anti-choice propaganda which questions it.
Everyone that cares about women’s health care and safety should be questioning it. How can you say it’s “accurate enough” when clinics have admitted not reporting adverse outcomes of abortion? You have no idea the number of deaths or other adverse outcomes as a result of abortion. Abortion is not linked to deaths that occur as a result of infection, hemorrhage etc from the abortion. You’re supposed to be the one that cares about making sure you have FACTS! Only a fool would think that what the CDC has is “accurate enough”. Hell, all you have to do is compare the discrepancies between what Guttmacher reports and what the CDC reports to know that’s a joke.
of course it wouldn’t be boring or the same old rubbish if it were true. But it’s not, so it’s the lies which are boring and the same old rubbish.
You are a sad, pathetic, delusional man. How dare you be glib about the women’s lives that were harmed by these clinic workers and abortionists. You claim these clinic workers are all lying, pretending that abortionists like Tommy Tucker and Gosnell don’t exist. Guess that’s what you have to claim in order to keep showing up here spouting your stupidity as if it’s factual.
“you would want the clinics to be regulated as hospitals if safety is really your main concern” – I’d much rather abortions were done in hospitals but if anti-choicers are going to continue to prevent that then they can only do the best they can, just like clinics performing other services.
“Because legal, peaceful protests are more dangerous and intimidating than a war zone” – not at all but that doesn’t mean people would enjoy, appreciate or feel safe with the intimidation and pestering that takes place.
“And yet they’re not all dying in childbirth or back-alley abortions” – obviously some are dying in childbirth when they wouldn’t have through abortion. And what stats are there on back-alley abortions in Ireland and their impacts?
“But yeah, you did.” – no I didn’t – “abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival.” – yet the stats say the opposite.
“The statement being reviewed is “abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival”. – it is.
“Necessary” means that it’s impossible to reduce maternal mortality without abortion.” – I’m afraid that’s a logic fail at the first hurdle.
Let’s see what I actually said in total:
“Your claim was that legalizing abortion is necessary to reduce maternal mortality.” – I didn’t say it was necessary, I simply pointed out the facts.
“That cannot be true if there exists even a single country that has drastically reduced its maternal mortality without legalizing abortion.” – and how exactly do you draw that conclusion? THat is so completely non-evidential, or even indicative.
I did not say that it was necessary to have abortion to reduce maternal mortality. All I have said is that maternal mortality rates are lower for abortions than childbirth. There are numerous factors which can contribute to lower maternal mortality rates. The provision of legal and feely available abortions is one of these factors.
To summarize – I did not say that abortion is necessary to reduce maternal mortality rates and therefore your claim that “That cannot be true if there exists even a single country that has drastically reduced its maternal mortality without legalizing abortion.” is irrelevant.
Exposing this woman and her family is inexcusable. You are sick and have no respect for others. Respect is lacking big time here. What did you gain by revealing this woman name and picture? To expose abortion? No. I do not believe it was the intention. You people wanted to expose this woman, for your little glory. So sick. What you did has nothing to do with being pro life.
I pray for your souls. You need to re evaluate your morals.
Wow, this mom (if you can call her that) “wanted” the baby until she found out it was less than perfect, then has it shot in the heart so she doesn’t have to deal with it, and she’s memorialized as a victim!? She is a victim, for sure, but definitely not an innocent one! Wow, just wow. There’s not only one person at fault here. I wonder how her husband feels after his wife’s own murder kills herself too. I bet he wish he’d chosen differently. very sad. and ironic.
I’m sorry but this country has HIPPA Laws, why on earth would you feel that it is your business to be posting their PRIVATE Health Care ANYWHERE?????
I’d much rather abortions were done in hospitals but if anti-choicers are going to continue to prevent that then they can only do the best they can, just like clinics performing other services.
So you want abortion opponents to just get out of the way (regardless of their reasons for opposing the practice). But, failing that, you’re okay with subpar, unregulated clinics? I’m afraid it seems that abortion access is your bottom line, not women’s safety.
not at all but that doesn’t mean people would enjoy, appreciate or feel safe with the intimidation and pestering that takes place.
Your reasoning for why the best doctors don’t do abortions is “because they’re not being pestered and harangued by extremists. They won’t have loons with placards shouting outside their church or their child’s school.”
That doesn’t seem right if they’re willing to work in much more hostile environments.
bviously some are dying in childbirth when they wouldn’t have through abortion. And what stats are there on back-alley abortions in Ireland and their impacts?
If it was happening on a regular basis, I’m sure I would have heard about it by now. This is 2013 after all.
“abortion is not necessary to improve maternal survival.” – yet the stats say the opposite.
That strongly implies that the statement is false (so you’re trying to tell us that abortion is necessary to improve maternal survival). You need to word things more carefully if that’s not really your intention.
I’ve done some googling and Jennifer is the daughter of a police detective.
Also, the police are now involved, along with the medical examiner, in investigating Jennifer’s death.
I’m the sister of a former police officer. I can promise you things will get very heated for Carhart. Her father will have a lot of “friends” ready and willing to get Carhart.
Many years ago, my brother once asked me if I noticed that killers of police officers in our city who didn’t go to prison wound up dead? I did recall a few mysterious deaths, one by stabbing in the middle of the night in fact. I asked him who killed them and he only looked at me and smiled. I knew not to ask any more questions.
I’m afraid it seems that denial of abortion access is your bottom line, not women’s safety.
“You need to word things more carefully if that’s not really your intention.” – fair enough, I’ll cop that. It is one of the things which are necessary to lower maternal mortality rates. The rates can be lowered without abortion but will be lower still with it.
“Her father will have a lot of “friends” ready and willing to get Carhart.” – yes, well.
“What you mean women don’t NEED abortion in Ireland?” – you know better than that. How many travel to secure abortions? Why is there pressure to allow abortions in Ireland?
The lying never ends.
.
Medically necessary abortions are legal in Ireland. Of course that situation is vanishingly rare, therefore there is little need to abort.
Why would she abort a 33 week fetus…sometimes karma makes a person reap what they sewed…
My condolences go out to Jennifer’s family but it appears that the family wanted this baby born dead as soon as they found out she had an anomaly. A 33 week fetus would have been born alive if labor had been induced at a hospital. If the baby had been incompatible with life (meaning would not have been able to live outside the womb), then once this was diagnosed they most likely would have been given a choice to be induced or to wait until labor started naturally. Since they did not go to a hospital to be induced and because this abortionist had to inject potassium into the baby’s heart to stop it, tells me what ever this baby’s anomaly was the baby would have live through child birth and who knows how long depending on the anomaly, It is very sad that this couple could not have waited out a few more weeks and given this child up for adoption to a family who would have loved her and both the little baby girl and the biological child bearer would be alive.
There are no shortcuts in life. The Catholic Church needs to be more aggressive in explaining the value of life and the value of a mother during pregnancy. That is because when you are pregnant, you are ALREADY a mother. Your body is caring for your baby and you do things to protect your growing baby and your body. Do not put all of the blame on this doctor, who is known to have no ethics. That should not have surprised anyone, or the fact that putting one’s life in the hands of a late term abortionist is exactly that. Wake up and understand the facts.
Nancy, I dont think HIPAA laws were violated. The medical examiner has legal rights to the medical records. Jill Stanek did not identify her through her medical records. Also, privacy ends with dead, only the living are protected by privacy laws. However, I see no purpose in identifying who she was. Her family will suffer enough as it is. What Jill did is unethical. I happen to be pro life but I cannot come up with any valid reason to identify her at this point in time. Eventually there should be a trial charging the doctor, at that time the name would need to be brought up but not now.
Which one of us doesn’t deserve death for our sins? She just got her penalty early.
My grandson was born, full-term, with anencephaly. He died a few hours before he was delivered…but we were so thankful to get to hold him and say goodbye, regardless. His condition was diagnosed in his early months in-utero. My daughter and her husband did not consider abortion. They accepted God’s gift in its entirety. There are no regrets, although the pregnancy was a time of much tears, questions, and ultimate peace with God. No regrets…that is the best part of the story. Through this experience, we have all grown so much closer to Christ and know now that, no matter the circumstance, He will be faithful. He does not leave us comfortless! There is such a peace in knowing this!
This story is so sad. I felt sick all day at work thinking about it. Early on, I googled her name looking for more information and stumbled on her Pinterest account. It was just really depressing. This woman could have been any one of my friends.
I won’t speculate on the details or specifics but I will say that couples whose baby is diagnosed with a fetal abnormality are under GREAT pressure to abort – not just from society but from the medical establishment. If you don’t go into that situation already strongly informed and strongly pro-life, it can be extremely chaotic and confusing, and you just want to trust your doctor. You end up fighting a war on several fronts – the emotional and practical realities of the diagnosis, of course, but you can also end up fighting off your own doctors, your own family and friends. If you go into it knowing that the second is a fight worth entering, then that’s one thing; but if you have not really considered this situation at all yet then you may not even see that there is a second fight at all. You just surrender without ever even knowing that that’s what you did.
This poor woman and her poor child. What a horrific way to spend your last few days alive.
This is such a sad story. Hard for me to believe that a woman who has loved this child for eight months would resort to this. It will be interesting to find out whether there actually were abnormalities. My story is that my husband was born with a heart abnormalty and a club foot. His life was saved at age 14 with total correction. The foot he still struggles with but he is the love of my life and I don’t know what life would be like without him. He has had a great education, a great job and has been a skier, fisherman, golfer and a wonderful Christian man. Each of us is a gift from God!
How heartbreaking to hear of a Catholic mother who never stopped to consider that her baby girl might have been baptized and loved by her parents and grandparents before her natural death or in spite of severe health challenges. So many are taught that it’s more merciful to eliminate suffering than to consider each person’s ultimate end. This mother, had she been truly raised Catholic, ought to have known to put the soul of her daughter ahead of her own fears regarding what her daughter (and what she and her husband) might have suffered had she been allowed to live. That very suffering might have prepared their souls for Heaven in ways they never dared imagine. May God have mercy on all of them–the living as well as the dead.
@Rebecca…I couldn’t agree with you more. I know a lady whose daughter has Downs Syndrome and she, the daughter, is now in her 30’s and is healthy and as precious as can be. What if her mother had aborted her just because she was not normal? BTW, normal should not even be in the dictionary or a “real” word because truth be known, NO ONE is truly normal. I was told by two different doctors that if I could get pregnant, I would never carry the baby to term and most likely have multiple miscarriages. However at age 33, I gave birth after going to term plus two weeks to a beautiful, healthy baby who is now 12 years old, a previous soccer player, a current football player, a Trumpet player in the school band and he is full of life with tons of friends. Doctors are not God, they make mistakes, too. I have a beautiful miracle, gift from God to prove it. This woman was old enough, educated and if a true, practicing Catholic, should have known that doctors are not always right and given little Madison and chance instead of murdering her. MADISON IS THE VICTIM in this tragedy, not the “mother” (and I use that term loosely) nor the rest of the family that tagged along. May God forgive this family for what they have done and I hope other women learn from this. A child is a GOD GIVEN GIFT no matter what, not a piece of trash to be discarded!?
This is not a case of 2 murder victims. There was one murder victim and one co-conspirator who died from injuries sustained while in commission of a crime.
Do you have permission to use that picture of the deceased woman?
I do not understand how this extended family rallied around the deceased to kill her child. As Catholics did they not have recourse to a spiritual advisor, a priest or deacon to comfort them and give them strength in their hour of need? Did they not understand the enormity of killing a solid third trimester infant in the womb? Did they think it would be a permanent and satisfying “fix” to kill her?
Who are ANY of you to judge this woman for her decision that her and her doctor thought were best at the time? Why is it that when an abortion provider has a death, mistake or even unethical practices, you are so quick to jump on them. Guess what? There are unethical fertility clinics, OB/GYNs, heart surgeons, Cancer/Chemo clinics. You will find that mistakes are made in ALL aspects of medicine. To plaster this womans name, picture and story all over the internet is a disgrace. She obviously wanted and loved this baby, but for whatever reason, maybe she couldnt bear the thought of going another month for her baby to suffer and die shortly after, or the baby would live a life of suffering who knows but it sNOT ANYONES BUSINESS. Its a tragedy, maybe she would have lived had she carried her baby to term, MAYBE SHE WOULD HAVE DIED, or had severe complications. Maybe the terrible, restrictive laws that the so called prolifers have put in place restricted her from what should have been done or another safer treatment option. You are so quick to judge everyone for their choices and seem to know everything and whats best for every mother and woman. You dont know and you shouldnt because its no ones business or place. Shame on all of you for exploiting her. I bet your’God” and “jesus
would not be proud of their followers for how you are all judging her and her situation. This doctor is a blessing to families in crisis who need him and have no where to turn.
I am wondering if Jennifer was getting the abortion in order to keep her job. If that is the case then that is another area that laws need changed so that pregnancy will not jeopardize employment?
Catholic? The baby already had a name? A Kindergarten teacher? Late term abortion at 33 weeks? We are really missing something here….
If you are an active Catholic you don’t fall into any B.S that any doctor could tell you about why you should take such drastic decision. You know any life is precious at any stage of development. I AM NOT JUDGING THIS LADY. I am trying to understand why this happen. It is just that as a physician, and as an active catholic situations like this make me think she can be my sister, my best friend, my daughter.
This is mostly what you will hear from 90% of the medical personal when they diagnose malformations or cromosomic alterations in the unborn baby: ’terminating your pregnancy is the most compassionate thing you can do for your baby”. Also…”In addition of having your baby going through excruciating pain and suffering for X weeks, or months, you will be hanging with thousands of dollars in medical bills”.
This must be very stressful for parents specially if they have more kids. It keeps adding up… but as a physician I think it is not about money, because parents had found money to fight for the survival and wellness of their babies all the time, and anyway, if you don’t find money right away it is something that is not going to stop you at that moment to try to save your baby’s life. I think the reason parents make such decisions is seeing your baby connected to tubes, and being cut wide open over an over to fix their little bodies. This is an emotional toll that takes the most strong mother or father’s soul away by chunks…Or worst … some parents do not even have to see it… they just imagine it, and they can take it.
So it is good that all of us are here praying for them but,, Where were we when this family needed to borrow a little piece of “our strong faith in God”? I mean…Because a lot of people on this board, Catholic or not, agreed that we, in our non-judgmental personal humble opinion, will let the baby be born, and live as much as God wants her to live. OK, but being able to hold that kind of Cross only comes from having a strong faith and confidence in Christ. In having the Holy Spirit active inside us. Otherwise … as a mother I don’t see how you can go through it without dying yourself.
I have been in several parishes in 5 different countries that there are always envelopes to get funds … a pink for the flowers, a blue for the schools, green for the electricity bill… and other programs, maybe some parishes include money for counseling… but I think that unless there is an specific program called ”Spiritual and ECONOMIC support for Challenging Pregancies and Parenting” tragedies like this one will keep happening. We need a program which ANYBODY can approach with hope and confidence, knowing that if they have a either sick or healthy baby they are supported BY A WHOLE COMMUNITY in this journey, economically and spiritual.
I never think about this situation until now. What can take to this mother and teacher, who probably couldn’t wait to teach Madison, her own daughter, the colors….to make such a drastic decision? Are we involved or are we just observers throwing sins… I mean… stones from our comfortable praying mat? Don’t take me wrong, prayer works!!!!! Also I am not saying that other programs are not as important, and that we should skip the flowers or the donuts in order to support parents with challenging pregnancies and babies… it is not responsability of our churches or other non-profit organizations to find the way to make this happen, it is all ours… the ones who care for babies like Madison. Donate hours, skip the Starbucks…
My priest is going to be very excited when I mention him the new program’s idea this Sunday…. especially just after the budget’s cut… but who knows….maybe by this time next year a baby Madison will be celebrating her Baptism, and we won’t feel as helpless as we do now.
Thanks.
ESL Level II student.
P.S. I didn’t skip Grammar class in order to party. I originally only speak Chichimeca.
Pray that some thinking person here in Nebraska will pull this abortion of a doctor’s license. Women, pro life or pro abortion, are not safe with him practicing medicine.
The doctor who ordered the test that revealed the anomalies should have helped them make a better decision. All ‘baby doctors’ should either be ready for this or change their specialty. So sorry for all of them, especially for the father left without his family.
I pray that all parents who are told that something is wrong with their baby turn to God and trust him. I also suggest that if you are someone who cannot handle the thought that something is wrong with their baby that they refuse all prenatal testing. It has been my experience that these tests are not very accurate and that most babies are born very normal. A family member was told at 28 weeks that her unborn son would be a dwarf from an ultrasound. He was perfectly normal and is 6 ft tall today. My son was told his daughter could have fetal anomalies. She was born a perfect and healthy full term baby 11 months ago. Trust God not todays technology!
In response to Mila: Elizabeth Ministry is a catholic organization set up for parishes to support women who are struggling with miscarriage, problem pregancies, and just the struggle of putting food on the table after the birth of a child. It is a joyous group celebrating life and helping encourage women during their child bearing years. They have a web site to make it easier for you to get started in your church.
Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/25/170292683/photos-scenes-from-the-march-for-life
Sorry this woman planned to kill her poor innocent child. I believe life begins at conception. Arguing aside on “fetal pain” we all KNOW that poor baby suffered. She is a victim of her own making (this woman). She chose to kill her child, instead of let God take her baby when it was his time and she was struck down because of her part in her baby’s suffering and subsequent death. Pray for her husband and family who need to realize their sin in this and that they need to repent for their part. Carhart is simply a hit man and wouldn’t have a job if selfish people and or people that can’t stand imperfection didn’t kill their kids. Stop playing that this woman is some innocent victim she took herself and her baby to a butcher and instead of just killing her innocent imperfect child she died too…let this be a lesson…
Mary, Even in the most unsafe gang ridden areas its safer to be an ER doctor but not many gangmen=mbers have a reason to target and kill a doctor who may possible save their life if they came in with a gunshot wound. There are no groups of psychotic people hunting down cancer doctors, plastic surgeons, pediatricians or radilogists.
I wrote a previous comment about how discusting, violating and rude it was to laster this poor womans personal private medical information all over this site. Its very un-christ like. Just because you dont agree with her choice none of you have any right to condem or judge her. You think she WANTED to have an abortion at 33 weeks? Her baby was probably suffering from a horrible illness, maybe lacking a brain and was already dead. Would you support a woman having an abortion if her baby didnt have a brain or other vial organs and whas basically dead inside of her? That is heartbreaking to go through and no woman deserves to be judged or dondemmed for that especially be the very people who preach about jesus and god, and not judging. Jesus wouldnt judge her, he would embrace and love her unconditionally. Something you all need to do
Sarah you said:
“Jesus wouldnt judge her, he would embrace and love her unconditionally.”
Not the Jesus of the bible. The Jesus of the bible condemns people who commit murder and don’t repent. She was a professing Christian and a Catholic one at that she knew full and well what her church and scripture teaches. Jesus is coming again to destroy evil people and yes that would include people who plan the murder of their children. Christians preach Jesus not for people to have some cosmic buddy but for people to know that they are sinners and that while they were sinners God cared enough to send his Son to suffer and die on a cross for their sins IF they repent and believe in him. REPENT is in there just like when he told the woman about to be stoned “neither I condemn you”-ie not judge but condemn ie stone” then he said “GO AND SIN NO MORE” he had to judge that she sinned to say that. You act as though he said “neither I judge you go ahead and go back to that guy you were cheating with”… (rolls eyes)
Folks, remember what Christ said of those who put Him to death: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Remember that while we must hate the sin, we must also love the sinner. If we allow our contempt for the sin to extend to the sinner, we have committed an even graver sin — we have killed not just a body, but our immortal soul. We also open the door for Satan and his minions to attack and drive us even further from God.
“If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men. Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. But if thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink. For, doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head.” (Rom. 12:18-20)
@sarah:
“Just because you dont agree with her choice none of you have any right to condem or judge her.” — It’s not a matter of whether we agree with the act, but that it is objectively immoral. Other than that, I agree completely.
“You think she WANTED to have an abortion at 33 weeks?” — Do you have some reason to suspect she was forced to have the abortion against her will?
“Her baby was probably suffering from a horrible illness, maybe lacking a brain and was already dead.” — Possibly. I’m curious as to what information you have to assert that this situation was “probable”?
“Would you support a woman having an abortion if her baby didnt have a brain or other vial organs and whas basically dead inside of her?” — No. When a baby in such a state is delivered naturally he or she can be buried with due dignity and respect. If the child IS dead (not “basically dead”), is not delivering, and its presence is threatening the health of the mother, then the lifeless body can be removed. But no human intervention may be taken to hasten the death of the baby.
“That is heartbreaking to go throug” — Yes, it is. But having an abortion doesn’t make it any less so. Abortion is a rather violent surgical procedure, especially when the baby is that old; it adds physical trauma on top of the emotional trauma, as well as the emotional and spiritual effects of having killed your child.
“and no woman deserves to be judged or dondemmed for that especially be the very people who preach about jesus and god, and not judging.”– True. The judgement belongs to God alone.
“Jesus wouldnt judge her, he would embrace and love her unconditionally.” — In this life, while Jesus loves unconditionally He also admonishes sinners to “go and sin no more”. But remember Jesus is our judge when this life is over and He demands that justice be served. For those who maliciously take the life of another, which is what abortion is, and do not repent, there will be no eternal life. (“Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire: so shall it be at the end of the world. The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity. And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matt. 13:40-42))
I remember a 1988 article I think in ACOG journal about deaths of women from abortion. It included miscarriage and induced abortion so you had to take a calculator to it. Showed 18 deaths a year from the induced abortions, then said within the article that they thought their stats were underestimated by 50%. So that would mean 39 deaths a year from legal abortions. I looked up the deaths reported the year before abortions were legal and it was like 36. Sooooo if all true, while it meant the rate of deaths per number of abortions being done were down, the numbers of women dying was virtually the same and so what have we gained by having at least 20 times more abortions as the result of legalization except many, many more injuries not to mention the mental and emotional trauma for life. The twenty times more stat comes from Hilgers estimate of 60,000 illegal abortions per year vs 1.2 million legal ones in the U.S. I’m doing this from memory but if someone has access to the 1988 article they should look it up. It was either a 1988 article or the stats were from that year. Think the article itself was that year.
We do NOT have the right to judge. Only God can do that.
We should show compassion. A husband lost his wife and daughter. A Mother and Father lost their daughter. Brothers and Sisters lost their Sister. Instead of judging, we should pray instead.
Morbelli and McKenna families -You do not know me, but I prayed for Jennifer and her baby today at Mass. I offered up my Mass and Communion for Jennifer, her baby, the husband, family, and loved ones. May Jennifer and Madison Leigh rest in peace. May God Bless the hurting family! I will remember Jennifer, her husband, and baby in my daily rosary!
Love,
Maria