“I’m a millionaire because I had an abortion”
World Life Organization and Created Equal co-rented a jumbo-tron at the January 26 Walk for Life in San Francisco. On the jumbo-tron was looped a 2-minute video showing the graphic reality of abortion.
One of the pro-life apologists behind the police-protected guardrail surrounding the jumbo-tron was Russell Hunter of Abolish Human Abortion. Russell was approached by a post-abortive mother who made a revealing declaration: “I’m a millionaire because I had an abortion when I was 18.” Here’s the video:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/EkX8N2yto6U[/youtube]
When Russell called the mother out as having committed “human sacrifice” (to the god of wealth), she rationalized her boast by saying she was at the time 18 and in an abusive relationship. She added, “I got a college degree from Berkeley and a master’s degree.”
This is unvarnished liberal feminism, which has turned the original meaning of feminism on its head.
Liberal feminism teaches that a woman is incapable of parenting and bettering herself at the same time, or waiting to better herself if circumstances aren’t right. Patience, sacrifice, and self-denial are not virtues. Motherhood is not a prize but a punishment.
So if a woman sustains a sexual relationship with a jerk and gets pregnant, the one to pay the price is the baby, not her. It would be too responsible and too hard to do the right thing, of which there are several options that do not involve murdering one’s own child.
And apparently women cannot get college degrees and post-graduate degrees with children. I didn’t know that.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I thought the most telling part was the lady responding to Russell calling abortion “human sacrifice.” She said, “I didn’t know that when I was 18.” It looks like it still hurts her. I hope she finds healing because money can’t give her back her baby.
I hope she is comforted by all those dollars.
And she could have still been a millionaire had she had chosen to place her baby for adoption. That’s a win-win – the baby got to live, and the mother could still go on to her life’s pursuits without the responsibility of raising that baby.
Unfortunately, abortion forced that little girl or boy not to be able to pursue his/her own life’s pursuits, because he/she was not allowed to live.
Were she truly liberated, she would have chosen not to be in an abusive relationship.
[Deleted by Jill and Denise knows why.]
joyfromillinois says:
February 6, 2013 at 3:55 pm
And she could have still been a millionaire had she had chosen to place her baby for adoption. That’s a win-win – the baby got to live, and the mother could still go on to her life’s pursuits without the responsibility of raising that baby.
(Denise) Carrying to term leads to a strong bond between mother and child. Both are wounded when that bond is ruptured. It may have to be ruptured in some cases but that doesn’t mean it will ever be cost-free for either the mother or the baby.
The fact that the baby is pre-conscious does not mean he or she is not attached to the mother.
Carrying to term leads to a strong bond between mother and child. Both are wounded when that bond is ruptured. It may have to be ruptured in some cases but that doesn’t mean it will ever be cost-free for either the mother or the baby.
I’m pretty sure both are wounded when an abortion occurs, as well. And for at least one party, that wound will never be healed. And abortion is never cost-free. Someone always ends up dead.
Shouldn’t this educated, rich woman be home balancing her checkbook instead of lurking at Walks for Life?
Maybe she doesn’t want to be home because she can’t handle that empty spot on her grand piano where a framed photo should reside. Maybe she can’t handle that empty spot in her heart.
She sure seems happy that she has that full bank account!
Kel says:
February 6, 2013 at 4:55 pm
Carrying to term leads to a strong bond between mother and child. Both are wounded when that bond is ruptured. It may have to be ruptured in some cases but that doesn’t mean it will ever be cost-free for either the mother or the baby.
I’m pretty sure both are wounded when an abortion occurs, as well. And for at least one party, that wound will never be healed. And abortion is never cost-free. Someone always ends up dead.
(Denise) And have I ever argued for abortion? I argue for pregnancies under promising circumstances. I am for the women getting pregnant being the ones who want to have babies. THAT is the best safeguard against not only abortion but many other bad things as well.
And have I ever argued for abortion?
Honestly, I think most of us here have no clue WHAT you are arguing for, Denise. You argue against adoption, and you argue against “sexual activity that can lead to pregnancy,” and you’ve even posited that we should put contraceptives into the water supply.
But you don’t seem to argue for life.
Denise you have the strangest line of reasoning.
This is the essence of our cultural problem.
Liberal feminism has taught women to become killers.
How do we re-teach people to think first, before they kill someone?
Instead of being happy that you could choose between your academic and financial success and your child, why would you not be mad that you had to choose between success and your child? Why not be freaking LIVID that THIS – “Be students and employees and independent successful people OR be mothers” – is our concept of equality? Why not be ashamed that you implicitly endorse this socially-constructed choice as a valid and even natural situation to impose on young women (and the men who love them), by celebrating the choice YOU made without discussing in any way the social constructs and institutional inequalities that made the choice necessary in the first place?
It’s like a self-imposed gift of the magi crap situation. “They told me I could pick long gorgeous hair OR a beautiful tortoise-shell comb. Everyone knows that if you have no comb, you just have totally gross unruly locks; and I didn’t want to have ugly unkempt hair but I sure did always want a beautiful comb. So I chose wisely, and now I have the shiniest, prettiest comb of all time. It stayed extra-shiny because I had no hair to comb with it, so it’s still in mint condition. What’s that? Who told me I couldn’t have long hair AND a comb? Well, everyone just KNOWS you can’t. No one had to TELL ME that. I just KNEW.”
Yeah, Denise, I basically skim your posts entirely to see if I need to put my mod hat on and pull them because, quite frankly, your logic does not resemble our Earth logic. We should make kids gay to keep them from being pregnant and contracept people without their knowledge (never mind the potential deaths from dumping hormones on people without their knowing about it) and adoption is bad and makes people murderers. Or something.
To be honest, you seem to be in la-la land most of the time and I pretty much ignore every word you post.
This line of thinking just seems extremely anti-female and anti-feminism to me. I don’t see why working to change society to support women who get pregnant but also want to have a high-powered career isn’t a more pro-female goal than working under the assumption that a woman in that position has to get rid of the baby to be able to have that degree and career. It just doesn’t make sense. Why not work towards changing universities and businesses to more family and woman friendly, with things like daycare on campus available for all, etc? Or work on strengthening father’s relationships to their children, start treating men like parents instead of wallets, getting men to take a more proactive role in their children’s lives so childcare doesn’t fall so disproportionately on the mother? Are those not more empowering goals than just getting rid of the kid?
Well, perhaps this millionaire could be a BILLIONAIRE by now, instead of just a simple millionaire, if she’d allowed her baby to live? I don’t see a connection, necessarily.
I would also like to say that there’s no need to be mean or rude to Denise. Many people having learning or other psych disabilities. If you don’t like a comment, there’s no need to say anything — except, of course, if it’s relevant to the topic. Just move on.
God bless.
No Jack it is way easier and more fun to just say that those are women’s problems – not even women’s problems but MOTHER’S problems. Motherhood then just becomes a way of “opting in” to dealing with all of those problems as though they are your own totally unique burden. “Not my problem that you chose to deal with these problems!” It can be very empowering to believe that your choices were SO GOOD that they, themselves, made your life so much better than other people’s – much more empowering, in some ways, than getting out of the matrix and realizing that you are basically just siding with your own bully so that he will pick on the other kid instead.
Seeing that abortion is not empowering means recognizing that YOU cannot easily empower YOURSELF alone. Not in the “two stressful weeks and a few sucky hours” way that you can with abortion. You will need workplaces that value you and your child’s father enough to also value the time you owe to your child. You will need schools that recognize that they are teaching adults, not children, and that are prepared to deal with actual adult issues. You will need family and friends who care enough about you to support you through times much harder than just the frantic stress of writing your thesis. OK, as several people here can attest, you will not actually NEED these things – but you will be better off with these things, you will deserve these things. You will be empowered by these things – not just by your own sheer will and fifteen minutes of a doctor’s time, but by the social and structural compassion of the world around you.
That is not a very empowering thing to realize, at first. At least in my experience. For one thing, it means that you have NO SOLUTION to these problems other than overhauling our entire freaking socioeconomic and educational and cultural system. That can be really disempowering to feel. Abortion is a way of feeling that the solution is in your hands. That the solution is yours to choose. It is empowerment for those unable to bear the great responsibility that comes with actual power. (Thanks, Spider-Man.) Actual power means recognizing that you also have actual responsibility. Abortion means feeling empowered without having to acknowledge any responsibility at all.
So I mean obviously I agree with you – abortion is anti-feminist and not actually empowering – but I can see why it takes a lot to make a pro-choice woman feel that way.
Kel says:
February 6, 2013 at 5:04 pm
And have I ever argued for abortion?
Honestly, I think most of us here have no clue WHAT you are arguing for, Denise. You argue against adoption, and you argue against “sexual activity that can lead to pregnancy,” and you’ve even posited that we should put contraceptives into the water supply.
But you don’t seem to argue for life.
(Denise) This is because I believe that when the women who get pregnant are those who want to have babies, abortion will AUTOMATICALLY decrease. If pregnancy no longer triggers panic or rejection but joy, abortion will pretty much be relegated to the dustbin of history where I would like it to be.
That does make a lot of sense Alexandra. Thanks for explaining that to me, I really didn’t get where abortion=empowerment ideas came from, and that does make a lot of sense why so many people think that.
“Instead of being happy that you could choose between your academic and financial success and your child, why would you not be mad that you had to choose between success and your child? Why not be freaking LIVID that THIS – “Be students and employees and independent successful people OR be mothers” – is our concept of equality? Why not be ashamed that you implicitly endorse this socially-constructed choice as a valid and even natural situation to impose on young women (and the men who love them), by celebrating the choice YOU made without discussing in any way the social constructs and institutional inequalities that made the choice necessary in the first place?”
What’s your solution to this supposed problem? Schools should automatically give out high grades to student mothers in order to enable a lifestyle that isn’t compatible with a higher education? Like the woman in the video, I went to an elite school too. It’s a competitive and demanding environment, just like it should be. That has nothing to do with “social constructs” or “institutional inequalities” any more than the demanding nature of training for the Olympics does.
God provided Russell with an excellent video. This video should go viral. The statement is so outlandish it might provide many, many people with the evidence they need in order to say that abortion is over-used and over prescribed “medical” treatment.
Perhaps Ryan at the Radiance Foundation could turn this video into a slick prolife ad.
There goes Joan showing her feminist creds protecting the patriarchal institutions. Joan sounds like you have lost your bearings.
Bright women should know how not to get pregnant Joan, I guess they never taught you that abstinence is a virtue. All that money for an education that didn’t teach you anything worth remembering.
The lefties and feminazis hated Sarah Palin’s guts, because she proved that a mother with a (5th) new baby could accomplish a great deal, including working as a governor, and vice presidential candidate. It’s why they had to fight against her so hard. She falsified all their claims about the limitation of women.
Unfortunately, the republican elites joined in with this, as well as so many others. I suppose that the extreme positive energy of Sarah Palin makes most people feel a bit small.
“The lefties and feminazis hated Sarah Palin’s guts, because she proved that a mother with a (5th) new baby could accomplish a great deal” – rubbish! It was because of her policies and her sheer stupidity, as evidenced by ‘the republican elites joined in with this’.
“I suppose that the extreme positive energy of Sarah Palin makes most people feel a bit small.” – no, it was just galling that someone with so little to offer attained such a high profile.
I second Grace’s comment. She had it spot on.
joan, why do you think that I think student mothers should receive high grades? That is an extremely bizarre place to go, given my comment. I think that, for one, affordable on-campus daycare would be a good place to start. Greater understanding of students who need to drop down to part-time status would also help. It would have helped ME and I was not even a mother – I was caring for my own sick mother. I was at – yes, joan – a prestigious school on a full scholarship, but that scholarship depended on me being a full-time student. I had to give up my scholarship – and thus basically my education – just to help my mother survive cancer. I consider myself to have made the right choice, but I am still LIVID that I had to choose at all.
A lot about college life and work life absolutely IS constructed this way. We as human beings built these systems and we built them without considering an enormous percentage of the population.
Alexandra, I don’t know how large your immediate family is, but your story makes it clear to me how beneficial large families can still be in a modern society.
Diana,
Denise Noe typically posts comments that need to be deleted. She knows this. We, as moderators know this.
It is what it is.
“And apparently women cannot get college degrees and post-graduate degrees with children. I didn’t know that.”
Yup I got a master’s degree, as a single mother, with 4 children, commuting 1hour and 30 mins each way, sometimes in blinding snowstorms. Twice I fell asleep at the wheel (not recommended!) and had bronchitis once.
I did not know women with children can’t get degrees either.
And Russell is right: this women worships the god or money. She has a dead child to prove it.
I also find myself becoming increasingly aggravated by the claim of many women that they had to have an abortion because they were in an “abusive” relationship.
I feel like this is the “go-to” excuse for abortion.
Or like the abortion was done to “punish” the man in the relationship?
Angel how did you swing it?
“And apparently women cannot get college degrees and post-graduate degrees with children.” – where did the lady concerned say that?
We know very little about her circumstances. She was 18, she was in an abusive relationship and she was pregnant, apparently.
With respect to the lady, it does appear that 18 may have been quite some time back.
What support services for young pregnant ladies were available then? Ones for those in abusive relationships? Those who were pregnant, in abusive relationships and wanted to study?
Being in an abusive relationship itself would have made study difficult enough. Being pregnant as well would have multiplied the difficulty.
Her situations – and the times – may have dictated that the only way to escape a dire and deteriorating future was to have an abortion, escape the abusive relationship, steady her life and then undertake study.
The rainbows and unicorns ‘single pregnant ladies in abusive relationships who want to study can find aaalllll the resources they need’ scenario didn’t exist then, it hardly exists now.
” Her situations – and the times – may have dictated that the only way to escape a dire and deteriorating future was to have an abortion, escape the abusive relationship, steady her life and then undertake study.”
Maybe so. She may have felt it was her only option, and god knows that a few decades ago we didn’t have the resources for women in abusive relationships that we do now. The thing is, we’re saying that’s wrong. I don’t think that you would disagree that something is wrong if someone feels like they *have* to have an abortion to escape a terrible abusive relationship, or go to school, or anything of that nature. It’s not really a choice if you’re forced into it by circumstances beyond your control.
That’s not even to mention her child. who was a victim in this too. You won’t admit that, but that is someone we know was a victim too.
Her situations – and the times – may have dictated that the only way to escape a dire and deteriorating future was to have an abortion, escape the abusive relationship, steady her life and then undertake study.
Your so full of crap. Women who are smart enough to get bachelors and masters degrees and smart enough to make a million dollars are certainly smart enough to figure out a way to keep from having to murder their child. This woman had an abortion because she made a CHOICE to have one. She was sold and bought the lie that abortion would bring her freedom when it only gave her what she paid for: a dead child.
Well, now she’s so free she spends her time at Life Walks telling her sob story to anyone who will listen. Maybe she should be spending her free time at a battered women’s shelter.
“Your so full of crap.” – tut tut – ‘You’re so full of crap.’, that’s better.
Tut tut number two – given the times and what little we know of her situation, your claim that intelligence alone would have remedied things is fatuous.
Of course she had CHOICE, that’s only as it should be.
“She was sold and bought the lie that abortion would bring her freedom” – obviously it did.
“when it only gave her what she paid for: a dead child.” – no it didn’t.
“telling her sob story to anyone who will listen.” – didn’t sound like a sob story to me.
“Maybe she should be spending her free time at a battered women’s shelter.” – maybe she does.
Jack, your comments have kept their logic and have lost their whine and sassy attitude. I am liking them again. For a while the sass was a bit over the top.
Maybe my comments are less “whiny” if certain people don’t harp on me for a while. ;)
Don’t start now Jack…
Don’t fall for it Jack.
I get the impression there are a couple of people who view you the way scientologists view solo passersby. Watch out.
” I get the impression there are a couple of people who view you the way scientologists view solo passersby. Watch out.”
Lol I am sure that I’m fine. I’ve said before, if someone can make a logical argument that can move me from agnosticism then I would welcome it.
“if someone can make a logical argument that can move me from agnosticism then I would welcome it.” – oh dear, some will see that as an open invitation unto eternity. Surely you realise they think their arguments are logical.
Reality who converted you?
“oh dear, some will see that as an open invitation unto eternity. Surely you realise they think their arguments are logical.”
Yeah, and anyone respectful is welcome to talk to me about religion if they want. I only care when people are rude and put me down, really. I like seeing where people are coming from and where they get their beliefs.
But you never answered my post above. Do you think that someone choosing to have an abortion under abusive circumstances is desirable or even a real choice? Do you agree it would be better for those who feel forced by circumstances to abort were given assistance to make another choice?
“converted” ?
“anyone respectful is welcome to talk to me about religion if they want. I only care when people are rude and put me down, really” – I hope they heed this Jack.
“Do you think that someone choosing to have an abortion under abusive circumstances is desirable or even a real choice?” – ‘desirable’? If the abusive circumstance is the only criteria on which the choice is made then its questionable as to whether real choice is available. That’s if it’s the only criteria.
“Do you agree it would be better for those who feel forced by circumstances to abort were given assistance to make another choice?” – ‘assistance to make another choice’? I would hope they would be fully supported in any choice they make, including abortion.
“desirable’? If the abusive circumstance is the only criteria on which the choice is made then its questionable as to whether real choice is available. That’s if it’s the only criteria.”
So, we can agree that if a woman is aborting, for example, because her husband is threatening to hurt her if she has the baby (the leading cause of death for pregnant women is murder, usually by the father of their baby, so that’s not exactly a far-fetched scenario). Or if she’s aborting because she has to go to a domestic violence shelter and is worried about bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances (even though she might want the child), it would be better if she got help so she didn’t feel forced into that choice?
“‘assistance to make another choice’? I would hope they would be fully supported in any choice they make, including abortion.”
But that’s the thing. You can’t deny that sometimes, or even often, women are making the choice to abort based on things that could be changed with help. Like the scenarios I mentioned above, or if our schools and businesses were more supportive of parents in general and single moms in particular. There are a lot of circumstances that some girls and women are in that leave them with few real choices. Like… the street girls I was around when I was a street kid myself, I only knew a few that definitely didn’t want the baby. A lot of them were pretty broken up about not being able to have the baby but felt like they had no choice. I don’t see how it’s supportive to be cool with them aborting because they feel like there aren’t any other options. Even if you don’t care about their babies at all, which I know you don’t, it seems very limiting to not look at the circumstances in a lot of women’s lives and see if they can be improved so they won’t be forced into a choice they might not want and they might regret.
So, we can agree that if a woman is aborting, for example, because her husband is threatening to hurt her if she has the baby…….Or if she’s aborting because she has to go to a domestic violence shelter and is worried about bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances, it would be better if she got help so she didn’t feel forced into that choice? – yes it would. Abortion would still be one of the choices available to her though. It also depends what that ‘help’ consists of. Such situations are rarely consist of singular causes or impacts.
“You can’t deny that sometimes, or even often,” – the often part I don’t fully agree with – “women are making the choice to abort based on things that could be changed with help.” – not everything can be changed, even with help. And what we may consider someone’s ‘forced’ decision may actually be ‘meh’ to them.
You speak of the street girls. If they did complete their pregnancies what do you consider the likely outcomes to be for all concerned?
“not everything can be changed, even with help. And what we may consider someone’s ‘forced’ decision may actually be ‘meh’ to them.”
Well, of course not everything can be changed or helped. That doesn’t mean we should just throw up our hands and leave people to choices that they might regret or not want just because we can’t help everyone.
And I know that you’re not interested in the lives of the unborn, but to someone who cares about their humanity, even if someone is “meh” about their choice to kill one, pro-lifers will care about the fetus, not just the woman carrying it.
“You speak of the street girls. If they did complete their pregnancies what do you consider the likely outcomes to be for all concerned?”
Depends on the girl. As it stands now, probably not good. Which needs to change. Everyone throws away street kids, our families did, the cops think we’re all evil and criminal, and society at large doesn’t trust us or give us the opportunity to rise above what we were usually born or forced into. So, it isn’t surprising that a lot of street girls and those from really low income levels can’t keep their pregnancies, if no one is willing to help them. No one is helping them get stable housing, parenting classes, education, medical care, addiction counseling, all the things that could help them keep their babies and become healthy adults. They are just being fed the line that abortion is easier, they can’t have their baby no matter how much they want to be a good mom and get out of the hole they are in. It’s bs, and it’s not choice no matter how you slice it.
For those advocating adoption: How much are prospective adoptive parents entitled to know about the background of the baby they adopt? Jeremy Strohmeyer achieved infamy when he raped and murdered a little girl in a casino restroom. His adoptive parents will continue to support their son who is serving life without parole. However, they are suing the adoptive agency for not telling them that the biological father was a career criminal and the birthmother a schizophrenic.
Nature VS. Nurture? No. It is nature VIA nurture. Genes matter. Environment matters.
Are prospective adoptive parents entitled to know the biological history of the baby?
Alexandra, I don’t know how large your immediate family is, but your story makes it clear to me how beneficial large families can still be in a modern society.
Well, my parents have three children and a large extended family (my mom was one of 1o) but due to our ages, it made sense that the privilege of caring for our mom fell largely on me. My dad had to leave town to work on the road, to earn a more lucrative paycheck than he would have staying at home, since the medical bills were high.
Now that my mother is going through an entirely separate but still incredibly difficult time, I don’t really find myself wishing I had MORE siblings, but just…maybe that I had more helpful siblings. I love my sisters more than life itself but I feel as though I was cast in the “caretaker” role over a decade ago, when I sacrificed the scholarship I’d worked so hard for, and now it’s just…that’s my role in the family. My older sister lives out west and my younger sister in Boston, so it’s not like they’re lazy or deliberately not helping out. They just aren’t close enough to do things like mow the lawn or build new shelves or fix minor plumbing problems. And I love my mother dearly but I also have my partner’s kids to help care for, a high-pressure job, etc. At the same time, I recognize that these things – my mom, my partner, his kids, my job – are among the greatest things in my life. I am lucky to have them; the work that goes into them is the trade-off for having such great people and opportunities. So it’s all okay in the end.
I am a huge proponent of large families, even in modern society. :)
Hi Alexander,
Thanks for the personal glimpse into your life, and your thoughtful response. I definitely hear and understand your complaint about wanting more HELPFUL siblings rather than simply more siblings; however, from a pure common sense perspective a person (parent or sibling) could reasonably expect to have more helpful siblings (or children) if they simply had more children. I also thought you made a valid point when you identified the financial cost of healtcare and the fact that it impacted your Dad’s ability and time to care for your Mother. I think this is valid point; however, even when medical care cost is covered by the government the people who are sick still need to be comforted and the demand of loving and supportive family member is still there. More siblings, and more family members, means there are more people to share this burden/life experience with.
You sound like an excellent and caring daughter.
Denise – As an adoptive parent myself, I understand your comment regarding the right of adoptive parents to know the “history” of the children they adopt. However, as birth parents, we do not know what issues may come with our biological children. But we welcome and love them anyway. So frankly, I am willing to accept the adopted kids without knowing what we may face with them. As for the guy that us suing some adoption agency, I find that ridiculous. If it was a birth kid that raped and killed someone (which obviously also happens), would they be suing the OB/GYN?
Reality, why, as compassionate humans, would we ever want to live in a world where girls are backed so far into a corner and their best choice is killing their own child?
If I would do anything (and am required, depeneing on how you look at it) to do anything to save the life of my child after he’s born, why wouldn’t I do that before he’s born? Why would location of the baby matter? Why would an unborn child require a different standard of care? Any why would you want to live in a world that allows this?
That would make you…monstrous.
This woman looks like the most happy, contented and joyful millionaire I have ever seen!!
Abortion and money brings so much peace, eh?
Not talking to you Reality. Give your keyboard a rest.
tut tut
It’s tut-tut.
Oh, look. It’s Megan in her later years. Don’t she just look and sound soooo happy? 9_9
Thank goodness not everyone has a “meh” attitude towards their fellow human beings, even in their earliest stages of life. I just can’t understand someone so vehemently arguing in favor of making an uninformed choice just because it was the first one made. Arguing in favor of ignorance is grasping at straws.
Tyler,
I “converted” myself, after years of Biblical study, learning about many different faiths, and quiet consideration within myself. What are you getting at? And why the use of the term “sassy”? That implies the “sassy” person to be addressing an authority figure, to me. Do you see yourself as “an authority figure” in general?
“Born in Babylona, moved to Arizona, funky Tut…”
Now I’m going to have Steve Martin’s tune in my head all day!
It was curious, at the March, how the pro-aborts hovered around that jumbo tron! They seemed to have to prove to themselves, ‘it’s ok, without apology, the patriarchy!!!’ The young people in our crowd were not impressed with them at all. Their anger and shouting, juxtaposed with the images of abortion, next to the banner that said ‘a fetus is not a baby..’, it was all on display. It showed the teens in the crowd: continuing abortion isn’t about compassion for women; it’s about the wounded wanting to spread the wounds. Anger, bitterness, and regret. Those are the fruits of abortion.
“That has nothing to do with “social constructs” or “institutional
inequalities” any more than the demanding nature of training for the
Olympics does.”
I think if a woman is competing in, say, ice skating, and she shows up
to the competition pregnant, we should just give her the gold medal! And
a ticker tape parade!
Kel says:
February 6, 2013 at 5:04 pm
And have I ever argued for abortion?
Honestly, I think most of us here have no clue WHAT you are arguing for, Denise. You argue against adoption, and you argue against “sexual activity that can lead to pregnancy,” and you’ve even posited that we should put contraceptives into the water supply.
But you don’t seem to argue for life.
(Denise) For clarification: I want abortion stopped. A human life is in place very early in a pregnancy. I can’t place it precisely but it is probably there by the 6th week of pregnancy so abortion likely kills a human being.
A human life begins at conception.
Come on Denise.
I think if a woman is competing in, say, ice skating, and she shows upto the competition pregnant, we should just give her the gold medal! Anda ticker tape parade!
Depends on how pregnant she is, but she might just EARN the gold medal, anyway, since hormones and body changes involved in pregnancy are actually performance-enhancing. Ticker tape parade optional.
The disgust exhibited by female pro-legal abortionists in this thread seems nearly palpable. Why do you think that is?
Carla says:
February 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm
A human life begins at conception.
Come on Denise.
(Denise) The 6th week of pregnancy is inside first trimester and only 2 weeks past 1 month.
Do anti-abortionists hold up pictures of 1-celled zygotes? No. That’s an embryo on that dime with bloodied arms.
If a 6 week embryo is a human life, most of the 1 million and 1/2 abortions in America are killings. I find that chilling enough to want abortion stopped.
Kudos to Russel Hunter for thinking on his feet. The woman was describing human sacrifice straight up.
“This woman looks like the most happy, contented and joyful millionaire I have ever seen!!” – hm, she’s observing a bunch of self-righteous, self-appointed people whose goal is to intrude into the lives of others and impede their rights to freedom and choice. That’d put a smile on anyones face wouldn’t it.
“Abortion and money brings so much peace, eh?” – yeah, pity about the interfering zealots who wasnt to destroy that peace.
“Not talking to you Reality.” – suits me.
“Give your keyboard a rest.” – not ’til freedom is assured.
rich or poor
black or white
young or old
Our babies have all died
A million, a billion, a trillion, a gazillion dollars will NEVER bring her precious child back.
It is total BS to blame others for your own lack of self control or peace. Own your reactions Lady Millions.
“A million, a billion, a trillion, a gazillion dollars will NEVER bring her precious child back.” – I very much doubt she wants it back.
“Own your reactions Lady Millions.” – she is. She’s reacting to a bunch of fundies who want to impose their beliefs on the whole of society.
Impose? Imposing a cannula upon a little body till it dies is pretty much forcing your beliefs on a human being.
Carla, Thanks for the response.
I don’t have a problem with deletion. I only have a problem with the ridicule.
My above comment was in reference to Denise.
I don’t know how that Halloween picture got in there?
“Oh, look. It’s Megan in her later years. Don’t she just look and sound soooo happy?”
Hopefully in my later years society won’t have to deal with misguided loons policing what happens inside other people’s bodies. Maybe your time would better be spent researching artificial gestation instead of bullying women into continuing pregnancies they don’t want.
Pro-life = pro-torture.
Hopefully in our later years, society will have progressed well beyond the legality or even perceived ”need” of a mother to have her child killed in utero to further her own ends. Or, to paraphrase what you said, hopefully in our later years “misguided loons” won’t feel the need to destroy other peoples’ bodies and bullying them to death in order to succeed in their own lives.
If artificial gestation would’ve been available to you at the time, would you have still had your child killed like you did?
Pro-“choice” = the choice to kill your child to make your life easier.
no, it was just galling that someone with so little to offer attained such a high profile.
Sounds like you’re talking about Obama.
Wow there are a lot more reasonable people on this thread than usual. Bravo! surprising…
“If artificial gestation would’ve been available to you at the time, would you have still had your child killed like you did?”
I suppose it depends on how quickly I could’ve had the embryo removed. If I had had the option to auction it off at a sidewalk protest – definitely.
” I suppose it depends on how quickly I could’ve had the embryo removed. If I had had the option to auction it off at a sidewalk protest – definitely.”
How droll. But seriously, would you think it’s a good compromise if we had successful artificial gestation, instead of abortion? Or do you believe that a woman should still be able to have an abortion even if it’s possible to gestate the fetus without her?
Sure – if the woman freely elects to do so.
Okay. So, even if we develop a way to save the child’s life without troubling the mother, the mother STILL just HAS to get to be arbiter of life and death for her child.
That’s not psychotic at all. 9_9
If her body hosts the pregnancy at any point, and the blastocyst/embryo/fetus must be physically extracted from her body in order to be artificially gestated, then yes — yes, she’s being “troubled,” and yes, she should be the arbiter of its fate.
There’s nothing “psychotic” about respecting bodily autonomy – it’s the principle that undergirds our laws against slavery, rape, and violence. Use no body as a means to an end.
Listen, I know you think abortion is murder. I can respect that, and your desire to see less of it. But there’s no way of militating against it without denying the subjectivity of pregnant women.
There’s nothing “psychotic” about respecting bodily autonomy – it’s the principle that undergirds our laws against slavery, rape, and violence. Use no body as a means to an end.
That’s funny! Because you had ZERO respect for the bodily integrity of your child. You used their body as trash to be discarded as a means to your own end. That was violent.
Listen, I know you think abortion is murder. I can respect that, and your desire to see less of it.
I don’t think abortion is murder. The definition of murder means the killing has to be unlawful. Abortion is currently legal. Do I think it should be included legally in the category of murder? Absolutely, because it is by its nature killing a child either directly by or at the behest of that child’s biological parent(s). That is currently illegal everywhere except for in utero.
But there’s no way of militating against it without denying the subjectivity of pregnant women.
I don’t care. Laws of the land and legal protections for individuals are not predicated on the feelings or wants of those who would like to see harm befall them for whatever personal reason(s) they might have. I want to be a millionaire, but Bill Gates has a right to “deny my subjectivity” in order to prevent me from violating his right to property by robbing him.
“If her body hosts the pregnancy at any point, and the blastocyst/embryo/fetus must be physically extracted from her body in order to be artificially gestated, then yes — yes, she’s being “troubled,” and yes, she should be the arbiter of its fate”
You know we have reasonable force laws right? If someone is violating you, you can only use the necessary amount of force to make them stop. That’s the law. So if artificial gestation was available and safe, it would be the least necessary amount of force to remove the “violating” fetus from the pregnant woman. To just kill the fetus for funsies is stupid. If it’s a life that can be sustained elsewhere, body autonomy doesn’t require that it be killed to protect the woman. Not if there’s another option.
But honestly, I’d rather see 100% effective birth control and everyone who doesn’t want kids using it, than artificial gestation.
Huh. Blue Velvet appears to be at odds with even Judith Jarvis Thomson herself, who writes the following at the end of her paper:
“There’s nothing “psychotic” about respecting bodily autonomy”
When it involves allowing the killing of another human being, then yes it is psychotic. (No scare quotes needed)
”Use no body as a means to an end.”
BS. You should picked the right that is useful to your position and proclaimed it supreme over all others. At the end of the day, the right not to be killed outweighs the right to bodily autonomy. Not to mention the right of offspring to be cared for by their parents until such a time as that responsibility can be handed over (at which point, said offspring has right to care from whoever has taken the responsibility).
It is at least arguable that since the female body was designed by nature to continue the species, demands can be put on the bodies of girls and women to carry to term when pregnant. It can be seen as a kind of “nature’s draft.”
Sadly under pressure she chose not to seek out what it was she was doing.
She could have done all those things after giving the child up for adoption.
I thought having a child is a womans greatest honor? I hope and pray it still is.
“BS. You should picked the right that is useful to your position and proclaimed it supreme over all others.”
Obviously. It’s called arguing. Let me ask you: why do you think the “right to life” is absolute? Are you as staunchly “pro-life” when it comes to other “life”issues?
“That’s funny! Because you had ZERO respect for the bodily integrity of your child.”
You’re right. Because. by definition, the embryo I carried for six weeks wasn’t an autonomous entity.
Many human beings are not “autonomous entities”, but they are still human beings, just as you and I are. And, our babies aren’t autonomous, either, for a long time after they’re born. (Maybe eighteen years?) Yet, they’re still our sons and daughters.
I guess one could make the argument that “autonomy” is a matter of opinion. Nevertheless, we are all human, and we are all connected and interdependent.
If that were not so, there would not be intimate relations between a man and a woman.
Blue Velvet wrote, “The embryo I carried for six weeks wasn’t an autonomous entity.”
LOL, only God is truly autonomous, completely free from control of outside forces. As the ancient Greeks said, in Him we live and move and have our being.
Actually, your child was autonomous enough, or else you could’ve just thought about ending their life by your will and had them die that way, and you wouldn’t have had to pay someone else to do it for you. Our growth and development is pretty well self-directed from conception forward, Megs.
What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?