Pro-life vids of the day: Grandma assaulted outside abortion clinic
UPDATE 3/21, 12p: Delaware Right to Life held a press conference this morning calling on the Delaware Board of Medical Licensure and Discipline to investigate this Planned Parenthood for the recent rash of ambulance calls. I (Jill) just spoke with Nicole at DRTL, who told me Rae’s perpetrator is still at large, although police do have her license plate number.
by Hans Johnson
3/20, 12p: On March 13, 2013 at the Planned Parenthood of Delaware’s Wilmington Center, an ambulance pulled up to take out a patient – the fourth possible botched abortion in less than five weeks.
Documenting this from outside the clinic was Rae Stabosz, a 63-year-old grandmother of 12. She was first threatened by one worker, then another woman is heard on the phone near the door saying: “I’ll call you in an hour when I’m in jail.”
This woman then knocks Mrs. Stabosz over as she grabs her iPhone, later giving it back….
Here is another version of the tape that includes the woman swearing and Mrs. Stabosz on the ground.
WARNING: Profanity
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
[HT: TheBlaze]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Omg that’s pretty classy, Delaware pro-choicers. Knocking over grandmas for documenting things.
If people are willing to kill their very own little children, imagine how little respect they have for your well-being and life. It is very scary.
The fact that this woman who attacked Rae – whoever she was – took the phone and said “here go her phone” (while giving it to a Planned Parenthood worker) raises red flags for me.
Did she do this of her own volition? Was she encouraged to do so by a PP staff member? WAS she a PP staff member or a friend/relative of the abortion patient? What does she think gives her the right to steal someone’s private property on the street? And why isn’t she in jail (or IS she)?
I had seen the first video already, but not the second. Together they paint quite an ugly picture. It is so sad that some people are so eager to defend the “right” to kill unborn babies that they will attack others, like a 63 year old grandmother.
From what she said on the phone before she attacked this poor woman, her act of violence was premeditated, though for how long we can’t know just by what the videos show.
Unless this attacker was brought in as some sort of “hit man” from the outside, which seems unlikely, she is likely either a PP worker or client–and the PP worker DID take the grandma’s phone when the attacker offered it, which they should not have done.
Kel, the last I heard she had not been found much less arrested, and it does not seem like she should be that hard to find. That, and PP taking the phone, stinks of coverup to me, though I confess to being somewhat of a conspiracy theorist.
It seems to me that in the case of a crime, PP should be required to turn over records on this person, but I’m no legal expert.
A very sad case indeed. My prayers are with this grandma and her family, the women (several in the last few weeks) taken out of the PP on the ambulance, for the police, for the PP workers and for the attacker. May justice be done and hearts be changed for life.
There was reported to be some shoving of a sidewalk counselor and/or pray-er in Milwaukee pretty recently. Not surprising from people who believe violence is an acceptable solution to problems.
One of the reasons the attacker feels justified in her aggression is due to the constant pro-abortion propaganda in the main stream media. The MSM refuses to show how it is actually pro-life which enjoys the enthusiastic support of millions. If the aggressor in the video had been properly educated by the mainstream media once a year (at minimum) with coverage of the annual March for Life showing upwards to a half million peaceful and beautiful young people standing for the sacredness of human life it could certainly help to heal the vicious hatred she holds in her heart.
And then this cowardly and violent person sees snippets of MSNBC and other lib news organizations offering doses of the contrived and baseless “war on women” which is designed to mis-represent, inflame, mislead and encourage hateful sentiments against all who would be guilty (meaning of course pro-lifers and conservatives) of engaging in this so called “war”.
So in the end the aggressor strikes out against a peaceful 63 year old woman who is harming no one and she feels completely justified in doing so without a hint of remorse because she is primed to feel and act that way.
Now we know what it looked like from the victim’s perspective when Trayvon Martin sucker punched Georger Zimmerman.
If Mrs. Stabosz had been packin she may have been justified in placing two rounds center mass. There may have been a moment where the 63 year old grandmother realized she was at a disadvantage and feared for her life while she was laying on the ground and her assailant was standing over her attemping to stomp and/or steal her phone.
I hope Mrs. Stabosz retains an attorney and aggressively pursues legal recourse, both civilly and criminally. Time to stand your ground Rae. A little ‘push back’ is in order to restore law and order in the minds of the mob.
Then when the legal system has run it’s course grandma Stabosz can be magnaimous and ‘turn the other cheek’ if she so chooses.
I think your axis has tilted too far ken. Urging people to shoot others, lovely.
People have been violently stomped to death and people have a right to stop others from physically assaulting them.
Once again, Reality defends the perp over the victim. Imagine that.
People throw themselves under buses too Praxedes. Neither event happened here. Who the ‘perp’ and ‘victim’ are here isn’t quite as clear as you would make out.
So the woman who pushed Rae over gave her back her phone or gave it to a PP worker inside the clinic? I can’t watch vids on phone and heard the later not the former like this article states.
I wonder if they’ll even bother to investigate.
Jamie Garcia, the attacker gave the phone to a PP worker inside the clinic, who came out and gave it back to the woman.
Are you serious Ken? Maybe you should take a break from the computer if you think it’s justifiable to follow an unarmed seventeen year old in the dark and then shoot them for hitting you (and that’s even if Zimmerman’s story is remotely accurate).
I can’t believe anyone “liked” your comment. Human life is valuable. It’s only justified to end someone’s life in extreme circumstances. Getting knocked down isn’t a reason to shoot someone. I can’t believe how gun happy and willing to use violence people are. And this is coming from someone who is pro-gun rights and owns three.
I’m one who liked Ken’s comment.
If you are knocked down and then are being stomped on, is that extreme enough? If your attacker is less than half your age, ten times angrier and at least that much stronger, is that extreme enough?
If you fear for your life, is that extreme enough?
Human life is valuable, Jack, and if you attempt an attack on my or my loved one’s lives, don’t be surprised if I defend myself in whatever way possible.
“If you are knocked down and then are being stomped on, is that extreme enough?” – an argument could be made for that case but that’s not what happened here.
Who the ‘perp’ and ‘victim’ are here isn’t quite as clear as you would make out.
Do I need to get a Master’s Degree to figure out who was the victim in the video? It is hard for me to comprehend that folks like you even exist. But there you are.
I watched the video. It seems as though the creep pro-choicer knocked her down and walked away. Wrong? Yes. Violent and deserving of punishment/needing counseling? Yes. Shooting worthy? Of course not. This is why we get grown men shooting teenagers because of a fist fight, this type of justification. Someone hitting you is not a justification for killing them except in extreme circumstances where your life is threatened. I’m not a big guy and I’ve had people much larger than me hurt me, I didn’t grab my gun and shoot them. That should be reserved for specific situations and I think it’s terrifying people act like violence should be answered with death so quickly.
an argument could be made for that case but that’s not what happened here.
When you are on the ground and legs are flying at you, you have no idea what will happen next. Did you notice the hard concrete? No, it did not happen here but the lady on the ground had no idea that it wasn’t going to go that far.
Your victim blaming is inexcusable but par for the course. I’m done with you.
That should be reserved for specific situations
And Jack is the judge of what those specific situations should entail. LOL
If you are stomping anywhere near my head and are as mad as the woman in the video and I have a gun, you’re gonna get shot.
Done with you too, Jack.
I’m guessing the woman that was assaulted will be dealing with Post Traumatic Stress. This is not a small thing.
Praying for her well-being and just punishment for the assailant.
Well, the law disagrees with you in most states, not just me.
Unless you’re in Florida, in which case you can shoot an unarmed teenager, but a woman who fires a warning shot to keep her abusive husband away from her goes away for twenty years.
The woman who assaulted this lady should be in jail. Not dead, in jail. By the justifications you and Ken have made I would have been justified in shooting my wife when she swung a guitar at my head years ago. I don’t understand how people can think that shooting is justified in simple assaults (not “simple” as in not damaging, simple assaults the legal term for assaults that don’t involve weapons and some other circumstances).
Anyway, what is your deal with me? As far as I know I haven’t done anything to you but you’ve made passive aggressive comments towards me in several threads.
“Do I need to get a Master’s Degree to figure out who was the victim in the video” – probably not but it might help you. To claim that the lady was being stomped on is false. Plus, the only legs I see doing anything when the camera is on the ground are Mrs. Stabosz’s. The only footage of the other lady’s legs are when she’s walking towards Mrs. Stabosz.
The closest thing to any assault which is in evidence in these clips is when the lady coming out of the clinic deflects Mrs. Stabosz’s camera.
“The closest thing to any assault which is in evidence in these clips is when the lady coming out of the clinic deflects Mrs. Stabosz’s camera.”
You can outright see the woman coming out of the clinic knock her down. It was pretty obviously assault towards her, especially when you hear what the lady was saying. She wanted the phone, apparently, and was willing to hurt the lady to get it.
And don’t be a hypocrite Prax. Don’t victim blame me on another thread and act appalled when Reality does it. Though it’s gross when he does it too.
“You can outright see the woman coming out of the clinic knock her down.” – I have reviewed both clips- yet again – and no Jack, that is not shown. We see the lady emerge from the clinic and deflect the camera. We ‘see’ the camera go down (from the camera’s viewpoint). Then we see Mrs. Stabosz’s upright legs doing whatever they are doing over the camera’s field of view.
““You can outright see the woman coming out of the clinic knock her down.” – I have reviewed both clips- yet again – and no Jack, that is not shown. We see the lady emerge from the clinic and deflect the camera. We ‘see’ the camera go down (from the camera’s viewpoint). Then we see Mrs. Stabosz’s upright legs doing whatever they are doing over the camera’s field of view.”
I see a woman coming at her, the camera knocked to the side by the woman coming at her, and a thump. This was after you hear the woman coming toward her say “I’ll call you in an hour from jail” which seems to imply she was planning on doing something that would get herself arrested. The other clip shows her on the ground with the lady swearing at her. I don’t know what you think happened, do you perhaps think she sat down for funsies?
I think you’re letting your ideology blind you to what happened here.
Right now I reaslly need to get some work finished for a client Jack. Then I need to eat and rest. Sorry Jack.
I will come back and give a detailed precis on these clips.
You can come back an give me your analysis if you wish, but it’s just going to make me mad tbh. I can see pretty clearly what happened.
You all should be congratulated because so far this is the most intelligent discussion thread on this incident. One correction. The receptionist at planned parenthood did not return the cell phone. The victim had to go inside and ask for it. She has stated on the local news that no one in the clinic offered her help at all. And with audacity I listen very closely to the clip and the attacker says “If I don’t call you in an hour I’m in jail. ”
Nick from Delaware.
JB,
Suggest you go to Google images and look for the photos of the back of George Zimmerman’s head and the medical report that notes that Zimmerman had a broken nose.
If Zimmerman’s account of the incident is proved true by the evidence and any witnesses then he was justified in using deadly force if he ‘feared for his life’. A jury will render a verdict.
Trayvon Martin was not Steve Erkel. George Zimmerman is not Charles Bronson.
When a 73 year old grandmother is assaulted with malicious intent and premeditation and pushed to the ground and then robbedd by a female bully at least 30 years younger, I would say the grandmother would be justified in standing her ground and protecting herself with deadly force if she ‘feared for her life’ and/or she reasonably feared she was in danger of serious bodily injury.
Your counsel to her is just submit and endure the assault and hope someone else, preferrably a police officer, shows up before the assailant kicks her butt and steals her stuff.
You don’t get to make that decision for someone else.
Or Rae could have followed Joe Bidens advice and whipped out her 12 gauge shotgun and fired a warning shot…if she had the time, the presence of mind, and the firearm.
I’m not a passive type of pro lifer. I do not take verbal abuse. I wouldn’t take assault and I make this very clear to some pc goon who has ever tried . Liberals are not peaceful theyare violent
If a pro choicer ever tried to hit me id hit them right back.
Show me a peaceful liberal when you don’t see things their way. Look at how Joy Behar used to act. I don’t. watch the view anymore but I was happy to hear Joy was leaving . Perhaps their ratings will go up
I’ll call you in an hour from jail
This is enough to make someone fear for their life.
To claim that the lady was being stomped on is false.
Please point out where I stated the woman was being stomped upon.
I know who Ken’s foundation is built upon. I know what Reality’s foundation is built upon.
God bless you who support protecting the weak and innocent.
I used to work in Wilmington. Tough city. People there don’t care. They’ll hit you for no reason in Wilmington. Add abortion to the mix and they can really get violent.
PP worker should be charged with receiving stolen property.
Grandma had it coming, right, Reality?
You need medical help.
Much of the footage is vague, but it does look like the woman coming out of the clinic was out of line. Having said that, she would have been justified in shoving the woman taking the movie if the woman were blocking the door, thus preventing it from being opened so the patient could be taken to the hospital, such as in the days when Operation Rescue blocked clinic doors.
Jack – You say this all in hindsight, watching the situation unfold with omniscience and knowing it did not end up a life threatening attack. Why should we have to assess an angry stranger’s intentions, capabilities, and try to predict the future in the split fearful seconds that a random person comes charging us?! Maybe if people were more concerned about retaliation, they’d think twice before being violent barbarians.
OK, I didn’t mean we shouldn’t assess at all and go all guns ablazing or something. But there needs to be a fair expectation when we’re being beaten. And the perpetrator doesn’t get to make all the rules.
Ken, with your logic I can follow someone through the street against advice from a police dispatcher, and when they punch me to defend themselves I can shoot them and claim self defense. Oh wait, that’s what Zimmerman did. People on Zimmerman’s side are seriously the hugest hypocrites ever. You’ll bend over backwards to defend Zimmerman’s supposed right to defend himself against an unarmed person, conveniently forgetting that your logic could be applied to Martin defending himself against an armed stalker.
You can’t claim you fear for your life in all situations and have it justify homicide. There’s a reason a lot of people have problems with Stand your Ground laws. In states that don’t have them there usually needs to be things like weapons introduced before lethal force is legally justifiable.
Lifejoy: “Jack – You say this all in hindsight, watching the situation unfold with omniscience and knowing it did not end up a life threatening attack. Why should we have to assess an angry stranger’s intentions, capabilities, and try to predict the future in the split fearful seconds that a random person comes charging us?! Maybe if people were more concerned about retaliation, they’d think twice before being violent barbarians.”
Yeah, that’s kinda how gangland violence works. I punch you, you shoot me, my gang will shoot you and some friends, your other friends will slaughter even more of mine… and on and on it goes. I don’t think fear of violent retaliation is as much of a discouragement as people seem to think.
” I know who Ken’s foundation is built upon. I know what Reality’s foundation is built upon. ”
Well Ken’s foundation allows him to blame rape victims for being assaulted (and accuse unattractive women of lying about rape because he thinks no one would want them). So yeah, hilarious.
And seriously, be a grown up and use your words and tell me what your issue is. Just trying to make me feel bad on different threads and then refusing to tell me what your problem is, that’s just childish.
Jack,
Your understanding of self-defense laws is flawed. Determining whether a self-defense justification is available is heavily fact specific. All the factors people have raised do indeed matter and the ultimate determination is based on the reasonable beliefs of the person under the facts known to them at the time of the attack. In addition, deadly force can be used not only in response to deadly force, but if you have a reasonable belief of sustaining severe bodily injury (which could certainly be the case if someone was stomping on you near your head – whether or not that happened here is a question of fact). I have no comment on the Trayvon Martin case, but the way you are describing self-defense is inaccurate.
Also, you don’t seem to understand LifeJoy. She’s not saying anything like what you responded with. She was saying that when people violently attack you in a way that would create the fear of death or severe injury in a reasonable person, they can be met with deadly force. That’s true even if the person didn’t intend to create that impression or if the person intended to create the fear but never intended to follow through. And it can be a true statement about the rights of the victim at the time even if we find out later that there was no threat. That’s an accurate statement of the law, and violent [expletives] should keep it in mind.
As someone who lives in Delaware, this saddens me greatly. And many people walk by that clinic everyday. They think it’s the business of the women inside…wrong…it’s the business of our community to STOP abortions from happening. Doing nothing is the same as doing something wrong because you’re not doing something right.
hmm, I wonder what the ambulance was taking to the hospital….an injured woman that had a botched abortion? [sarcasm] oh wait, those don’t happen! It had to be SOMETHING ELSE![/sarcasm]
So pro choicers….how was this woman in the ambulance injured if Abortion is “safe”?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Oh but liberals are these bastions of tolerance bull o nee!!
Just trying to make me feel bad on different threads and then refusing to tell me what your problem is, that’s just childish.
My problem is you thinking you know can speak for others about when they are allowed to stop someone from attacking them. In whatever way available. My problem is you not defending the woman on the ground but rather poo-pooing this incident.
My ex-mother-in-law went through a short phase of videotaping my activities after I separated from her son (shared property line). If I had gone up and punched her in the face, I would have expected her to fight back.
Childish is not caring if the spouse you share children with looks at porn.
Reality, are you just trying to make your side look bad now?
” My problem is you thinking you know can speak for others about when they are allowed to stop someone from attacking them. In whatever way available. My problem is you not defending the woman on the ground but rather poo-pooing this incident.”
Besides the fact I did defend the woman on the ground, from Reality pretending she isn’t a victim of an assault. Not to the point of killing, because nothing I see in the video would justify ending someone’s life. If she had hit her back, pepper sprayed her, or even possibly tasered her that would be perfectly justified. Shooting someone is a whole other level of supposedly defending yourself. Honestly though I think she did the right thing by apparently backing up and calling the police. Violent responses to violence often make the situation worse, especially if you’re physically outmatched. There’s a reason police recommend giving up your wallet if you are mugged.
” My ex-mother-in-law went through a short phase of videotaping my activities after I separated from her son (shared property line). If I had gone up and punched her in the face, I would have expected her to fight back. ”
So she could have shot you for punching her and it would have been completely justified?
” Childish is not caring if the spouse you share children with looks at porn.”
This justifies blaming me for her being abusive how?
CT I’ll get back to you about your comment, I don’t think I am thinking clearly enough at the moment.
Jack,
Unless you’re in Florida, in which case you can shoot an unarmed teenager, but a woman who fires a warning shot to keep her abusive husband away from her goes away for twenty years.
Ken, with your logic I can follow someone through the street against advice from a police dispatcher, and when they punch me to defend themselves I can shoot them and claim self defense. Oh wait, that’s what Zimmerman did.
I agree with you this was not a “shooting situation”. in Wilmington. It was definitely assault and the second clip shows not only theft but attempted destruction of property.
But you’re way off the rails on the Zimmerman case. It makes me wonder how biased your local media is.
So far, Zimmerman’s story pans out. Yes, he was told he no longer had to follow Trayvon, and apparently he complied. Not only did he say, “Okay.” But the incident and Trayvon’s body was found back near Zimmerman’s car.
Apparently he did return to his car to wait for the cops. Apparently Trayvon came back and confronted him. Apparently he landed at the very least one heckuva punch. And tha back of the head looked worse than one “accidental” fall to the sidewalk. The grass stains on the clothing will show whether his whole body was really on the grass while Trayvon pounded his head on the concrete.
We’ll find out this summer, I guess.
“So she could have shot you for punching her and it would have been completely justified?”
Possibly. If someone punches you once and walks away, it would be nearly impossible to justify the use of deadly force. Someone punches you repeatedly in the face and head and knocks you down…your case is getting much better. That’s why it’s so fact specific. People can die from blows to the head or kicks to the abdomen, and the person being beaten doesn’t have to be right about the threat. They just need to be reasonable.
“Yeah, that’s kinda how gangland violence works. I punch you, you shoot me, my gang will shoot you and some friends, your other friends will slaughter even more of mine… and on and on it goes. I don’t think fear of violent retaliation is as much of a discouragement as people seem to think.”
a) Are talking about discrete acts separated by time? That’s different. My use of the word “retaliation” was probably misleading if not wrong.
b) if you might get shot for punching someone, don’t freaking punch them. If you won’t get shot, don’t freaking punch them either. Do we not have any control over hurting other human beings even when we’re mad?
CT clarified well. Again I am not saying shooting someone is a proper response to being punched or even to probably many attacks. But no one states their intentions while being violent: “I’m just gonna hit you here once or twice, then walk away.”
On the flip side, many people regret not realizing the seriousness of a moment that turned violent.
This justifies blaming me for her being abusive how?
What?
You asked me what my problem was with you and you called me childish. I answer your question and point out what I see as childish behavior on your part. Then you accuse me of blaming you for someone else’s abusiveness. Your ex needs to own her behavior and you need to own yours. Don’t ask the question if you can’t handle the answer.
There’s a reason police recommend giving up your wallet if you are mugged.
The victim here didn’t get a chance to give up anything before she was knocked down.
CT:
In Delaware, if deadly force can be avoided by safely retreating or surrendering an object, then it isn’t legally justifiable to use deadly force. You can’t shoot a mugger and claim self-defense if you didn’t give up the possession that they were after. A lot of states have the “duty to retreat” aspect of the law, which usually applies anywhere outside your own home or sometimes place of work. You watch the attacker in the Wilmington video walk away after violently getting the phone from the lady, you even hear the lady yell “give me my phone” from the ground. I seriously don’t get how anyone can see killing her as a legally valid self-defense even under Stand Your Ground laws, which Delaware doesn’t have. I doubt she would have a case even in Florida or another Stand Your Ground state.
And sorry about earlier, I wasn’t explaining my point clearly at all and I messed it up. Yeah, if your life is reasonably in danger, and you can’t retreat or give up possession of something to alleviate the danger, then deadly force can be justified in states that don’t have Stand Your Ground laws. That’s not what was happening here, which is pretty clear from the videos, which is why I reacted so strongly to Ken talking about putting bullets into the attacker.
“What?
You asked me what my problem was with you and you called me childish. I answer your question and point out what I see as childish behavior on your part. Then you accuse me of blaming you for someone else’s abusiveness. Your ex needs to own her behavior and you need to own yours. Don’t ask the question if you can’t handle the answer. ”
I was talking about the other thread, the weekend question, where you randomly bring up my indifference to my wife’s hypothetical porn watching (which didn’t even happen in reality, so I don’t understand why you are fixated on it), and relate it to my wife being abusive. I actually thought about it for quite a while, because I didn’t understand how they were related at all. The only thing I can come up with is you think I’m at fault for the abuse because of this indifference. Which might be true, one of the things she always hated about me is I don’t care about the right things.
If that’s not what you meant then explain it please, because I don’t understand how they are related.
And I do own my behavior, I was a crappy husband. I wasn’t affectionate at all, I played too many video games, I wouldn’t cook what she wanted for dinner, I wouldn’t go to church with her, etc etc etc. I was a bad husband, I didn’t change drastically enough or quick enough to make her happy. I get it, ok?
I was talking about the other thread, the weekend question, where you randomly bring up my indifference to my wife’s hypothetical porn watching (which didn’t even happen in reality, so I don’t understand why you are fixated on it
You brought the other thread up but now say I am the one fixated on it.
The only thing I can come up with is you think I’m at fault for the abuse because of this indifference.
I’ve already said you are not at fault for someone else’s abusive behavior but here you go again twisting words and wanting me to say more. Your rationalizing and condoning porn use by a parent with little kids in the home is immature behavior.
And seriously, be a grown up and use your words and tell me what your issue is.
I told you my problem with you but then you want me to add more. Okay, here’s more. I will try to be clearer and sound more like a grown-up for you: you seem to love playing the victim and want others to feel sorry for you. I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess you have some issues with porn yourself. Your children are the true victims of their parents’ immaturity and abuse issues.
You sure can dish it out so make sure you can take it otherwise maybe it’s time you back away from the computer.
Sorry for derailing the thread. I have answered the questions I have been asked by Jack as honestly and to the best of my ability that I can.
I’m glad the older lady did not have a gun on her but if she had, I feel she would have been justified in shooting the assailant in this case. She’s 63 for crying out loud, doing what she has every right in our country to do.
“You brought the other thread up but now say I am the one fixated on it. ”
No, you were the one who brought it up the stupid porn thing again. For some reason it offends you that I’m not bothered about a situation that never frickin’ happened. You’ve brought it up twice.
“I’ve already said you are not at fault for someone else’s abusive behavior but here you go again twisting words and wanting me to say more. Your rationalizing and condoning porn use by a parent with little kids in the home is immature behavior.”
Did you even read what I said? If that’s not what you meant than you can explain why you brought them up on a thread that had nothing to do with either abuse or porn and related them to each other. I don’t understand what you are trying to say. I am not trying to twist your words, I don’t get what you are saying.
“I told you my problem with you but then you want me to add more. Okay, here’s more. I will try to be clearer and sound more like a grown-up for you: you seem to love playing the victim and want others to feel sorry for you. I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess you have some issues with porn yourself. Your children are the true victims of their parents’ immaturity and abuse issues.”
I haven’t watched porn since I was nineteen or twenty, I am pretty sure it was before my son was born. I don’t think I try to play the victim or make people feel sorry for me. I’m sorry if I come off that way. And I am sorry I called you childish.
I do the best I can to take care of my kids properly.
Praxedes, are you okay? You seemed curt with Mary the other day and just seem a bit out of sorts lately. I admit I haven’t been around much recently so I don’t know these previous conversations that took place and whether any feelings were hurt, but I just wanted to make sure that all is good with you.
Jack would like to see the law abiding citizen wait and see how much harm the perp does first, before defending themselves. Makes sense.
I’ve explained my position about a million times Jasper, I’m not doing it again.
I’m fine Alexandra. Thanks for your concern.
Being curt goes both ways. Since you are unsure about the conversations but are still commenting regarding them, maybe it be best to go back and slowly read them over. There are zero hurt feelings on my part. Just pointing out things that are obvious to me but I do realize these same things are probably missed by others.
Thanks for the apology, Jack. I wholeheartedly accept it.
The first clip opens with words on screen informing us “Praying catholic woman violently attacked….”
Can someone enlighten me, does walking around providing commentary whilst filming constitute prayer?
We are told that Mrs. S has been threatened by a young woman. What for? To be in context with the ensuing events it would probably need to be about filming outside the clinic. Is there any footage of this? (A) – (see point B below)
The other woman (I’ll call her Ms X) emerges from the clinic already talking on her phone. My guess is that she is a relative or friend of the patient. What I think she is saying into the phone is “I’ll call you in an hour when I’m in jail”. Maybe she expects to be arrested for what she’s about to do. Maybe she works at a jail. Maybe she’s going to be visiting someone in jail or perhaps she’s about to arrive at jail to serve a previously nominated sentence for something.
We then see her deflect the camera apparently being held by Mrs S. Presumably because she doesn’t want someone filming her relative or friend. (B) – (see point A above)
In the ensuing jumble of footage as the camera goes down we see Mrs S standing and/or stepping over the camera. We do not see Ms X attempting to step on the camera. We do not see Ms X push Mrs S. – If anyone thinks they can please advise me which clip and at what time point. – In fact all we see is a short flash of one of Ms X’s feet on the ground. This all takes place on the sidewalk. While these events are taking place it very much sounds to me like someone says “give her her phone.”
A split second later we see Mrs S in a very awkward position between the front of the EMT vehicle and the vehicle parked in front of it. This is several yards from the melee we saw a split second earlier. What happened? Was there a break in filming? Was someone else filming?
At various points references are made to previous EMT callouts being due to ‘botched abortions’. Does anyone have the evidence to support this?
“Citizen journalist” – code for uninvited, unwelcome, self-appointed person with a video camera. People are legally entitled to do such things but it doesn’t constitute ‘journalism’.
I don’t have all the details of exactly what took place here. Neither does anyone else commenting here.
From the evidence which is actually available via the two clips, the only provable potential offence I can identify is that Ms X was quite rough when she deflected Mrs S’s camera. That may constitute assault.
The whole thing smacks of a concoction built around an angry lady trying to protect someone’s privacy from unwelcome filming at a time of vulnerability. I wouldn’t want to be filmed by someone I don’t know, without my permission, whilst going through a medical event, would you?
Being curt goes both ways. Since you are unsure about the conversations but are still commenting regarding them, maybe it be best to go back and slowly read them over. There are zero hurt feelings on my part. Just pointing out things that are obvious to me but I do realize these same things are probably missed by others.
Right, I tried to do that – it is hard without knowing exactly which conversations you guys are talking about, and this is not like a message board where you can easily search a user’s posts. I figured that since I was asking about you, not the details of the past conversation, a quick comment noting that fact would suffice. I could have done without your patronizing tone but I am glad to hear that you’re okay.
Hi Praxedes are you on Facebook by chance?
I don’t know Reality. If you can look at that video and honestly say you see nothing untoward other than “roughly deflecting the camera” I don’t know what to say.
But anyway I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve offended or hurt anyone who posts on this board, it wasn’t my intent. And I’m sorry if I’ve been playing a victim or anything like that. I do try to be a good parent though. I have tried to do good at that. But yeah if I’ve upset anyone I am sorry.
Apart from the camera deflection Jack, we simply don’t see exactly who did what. There was obviously some sort of scuffle after the camera fell but since we see Mrs S on her feet, stepping over the camera, there is only an allegation that Ms X was doing anything at that time.
I have observed you come under ‘attack’ from various people here Jack.
You are truly anti-choice like the rest of them.
You have certainly ‘lived some life’.
In my estimation you are wise beyond your years.
But you are derided by some because you don’t share their religious committment.
You are derided by others because you don’t share their conservative social, economic, political and sexual behavior views.
Some don’t seem to be able to grasp that you can be anti-choice without being anti so much else.
From my point-of-view, Alexandra, it is frustrating when you ask me if I’m alright while admitting that you haven’t even read all the conversations. I could have done without your patronizing tone. Are you alright? — you seem a bit defensive.
Jack refers to me as childish, tells me to grow-up, and uses the word fricken’ to show his frustration about a situation, although hypothetical, that I believe, sheds a bit of light on him. He directly asked me, several times, to elaborate, yet when I did, I’m the one who seem out of sorts to you. Oh well. I still have no hard feelings toward anyone.
Unfortunately, I don’t do Facebook, Heather. I have my reasons. As you may be able to tell, I often times have a big, blunt mouth and often use it and I am not always met with kindness. (: I have to admit I stalked you through someone else’s FB after you said who you were on here. I’ve been thinking about how lonely you must be lately and praying for you.
No reality Jack is pro life. You are not. Don’t go trying to suck up! You stand for ripping children limb from limb in the womb…huge difference. as for the video I wasn’t able to watch.
I’m not able to access my video. This blog is for some of us to agree to disagree and right now reality i see you trying to take advantage of pitting one pro lifer against another . just an observation…..reality it looks like you are standing alone on ripping children apart so you’re putting yourself in the middle … Jack says he is p life so i give him credit where credit is due.
“Being curt goes both ways. Since you are unsure about the conversations but are still commenting regarding them, maybe it be best to go back and slowly read them over.”
Yikes!
“You watch the attacker in the Wilmington video walk away after violently getting the phone from the lady, you even hear the lady yell “give me my phone” from the ground. I seriously don’t get how anyone can see killing her as a legally valid self-defense even under Stand Your Ground laws, which Delaware doesn’t have. I doubt she would have a case even in Florida or another Stand Your Ground state.”
I’m not sure she’d have a case for use of deadly force here either. I do think what happened here is different than a mugging. She wasn’t really given the opportunity to avoid the assault by giving up an object. We don’t know anything about the reasonable expectation of safe retreat. This was over very quickly, but a slight change in duration with the same attack and no demand for an object could change that calculus very quickly. Anyway I think your comment here was a more accurate representation of self-defense law.
“Some don’t seem to be able to grasp that you can be anti-choice without being anti so much else.”
We have other pro-life/non-religious people here. We have pro-life religious people who disagree amongst themselves on other issues. I think most people here can grasp it, and I think the disagreement is usually more respectful than not.
Ok prax…was gonna ask you to add me but i understand . I’m pretty blunt myself …thank you for the kind words!:)3
Praxedes I’m kinda new to FB so I’m adding more as I go…put up some new pics of my son n will be adding more of the husband as well as my grown kids.
“From my point-of-view, Alexandra, it is frustrating when you ask me if I’m alright while admitting that you haven’t even read all the conversations. I could have done without your patronizing tone. Are you alright? — you seem a bit defensive.”
OK, Praxedes. I don’t know how I could have been more clear that it was first your tone with Mary that made me think I was just missing a previous altercation that was not really my business, and then felt similarly here. In neither instance alone would I have done anything but assume I has missed relevant details and move on, but since it happened twice in one week I just wanted to ask how you are doing. I apologize if me googling for the relevant terms, reading through several previous discussions to no avail, and finally figuring that wasnt really the point because you were the point in the end, frustrated you. I’m also sorry if anything I wrote sounded patronizing. If you have the time and inclination I would appreciate you telling me what about my tone was patronizing, because it wasn’t my intent at all. I understand if you don’t.
I’m not defensive, but since you asked, generally, no, I’m not alright these days. I have my health and my loved ones and am blessed in many ways, but I also have a lot of insurance and family stress right now, and am helping support my mom financially while trying to get a restraining order against my own father, plus the 3-year I help parent is going through an absolutely terrible phase so I’m not getting much sleep; and I’m already oversharjng so I’ll stop, but the point is, sometimes it all does make me respond more curtly than I otherwise would. That’s why I asked if you were ok – sometimes I find myself wishing people would extend the same care to me if I don’t seem like myself, rather than just getting annoyed with me.
Thanks for asking. I appreciate it.
Sometimes I just watch the conversations flow and read along. Jack and I didn’t get off on the best start either. However this can also happen outside of an abortion clinic and I have stood in the middle of many pro lifers who have disagreed. Sometimes it gets heated out there as well. As long as we are all there to fight for the unborn and try to keep women from entering t
I’m pro-life Heather.
I have no need to ‘suck up’.
I’m not trying to pit one anti-choicer against another either. Jack has asked a couple of times now why he comes under concerted attacks from one or two people. I gave my thoughts on why this is so.
I give Jack more credit than some people who are supposedly on the same ‘team’ as him do.
My post went through without me finishing …as long as we can keep women from entering that clinic ..it was a job well done. And not all of us LIKE each other. So as I’ve stated reality don’t try to use this disagreement to your advantage or your cause…dead babies! Jack maintains he is pro life and I’m content with that.
Reality since when did you become pro life??
Looks to me like Prax and Jack had it under control. You’ve been pro abortion since you’ve been here so why are you fussing with me?
I’ve always been pro-life Heather.
Reality … no you haven’t been. I’ve read your posts.
Thanks Reality and Heather.
I think that I cause more harm than good posting on this blog, so I am not sure that I will anymore. I seem to cause more friction than positivity and learning and that’s not what I want to do, and I don’t seem to be able to fix what the problem is.
And Praxedes you may be right about what kind of person I am but I do try to care for my kids. I am really not like my parents and I try to protect them from what kind of people me and my ex are.
Alexandra I’m sorry about your stress I hope things get better for you soon.
I am a real pro-lifer Heather.
Thanks Jack!
One thing I’ve learned: don’t leave a place if you don’t want to leave. You belong here as much as anyone else. If I’d left when someone said I didn’t belong here (years ago, I mean like…woah, I guess 2007? Idk) I might still be pro-choice ;)
Jack…don’t stop posting. I love your posts. Even when I wholeheartedly disagree with them I still like to read what you think. I know things are tough right now but hang in there. When I was 20 I was estranged from my family… I was living in the ghetto, I went hungry because I didn’t have enough money to buy food…I worked a pitiful job and then 2 pitiful jobs and kept thinking life would never get better no matter how I tried. My own mom told me not to come around at Christmas. I wanted to kill myself and it was the only time I have ever contemplated suicide. (Not saying you’re suicidal just saying I understand hard times). So I feel for you. I care about you. I wish I was close to you so I could help you in some way…ANY way.
Anyhow, when I look at my life now and how it was just over a decade ago I can’t believe how great my life has become. Things looked so bleak and hopeless but that is the beauty of life. There is ALWAYS hope…there is always the ability for problems to work themselves out. Things will get better for you… I know it! You’re a smart guy with a good head on his shoulders and I know things will start to look up for you.
Thanks Sydney I appreciate your friendship. And I’ll be fine I’m just a whiner.
Jack,
There are certain topics that hit close to home for all of us. But I love reading your thoughts too.
So……..stay. :)
Alexandra,
I was here in 2007 and I do remember that you were not prolife. THAT is a story I would like to hear. :)
Sorry Alexandra for what is going on in your life right now. I don’t think any of us, including myself, like to be told we are childish, patronizing, need to grow up, seem out of sorts, etc. If someone wants to know what I think, I will often tell them. I will also return fire with fire and I think it oftentimes succeeds in pointing out how others’ tones sound to me as well.
I think I have “gotten into it” with almost all of you regulars here, prolife or not. I sure don’t mean to deeply hurt anyone, including you Reality. I do often see some proaborts attempting to fuel the fire. I think my life experiences and my current job has calloused me in some ways but please know how much I care about all of you. You are definitely like my second family!
We prolifers are the hardy ones. We are the ones who will win the battle for the unborn. Our ability to see their humanity is the glue that binds us. I sincerely apologize if I hurt any of you.
This thread is upsetting to me and probably has made me shorter than normal (I know that is hard to believe!). I’m frustrated because our country should be all over garbage like this going on. It is upsetting that stuff like this and the death of Jennifer and Madison is not all over the tv stations and in the papers. It is up to us to expose the violence inside and outside the mills because the enemy is doing everything to keep it all hidden.
Again, my apologies and please don’t leave Jack. You have so much to teach others.
Let me preface this by saying that the assault shouldn’t have happened and it was wrong to assault her. However to say that prochoice people are violent is idiotic. I’ve been to PP and there are violent, disrespectful idiots outside the clinic every day. People need to find something better to do than stand outside and hold up there stupid sign and start chants. One last thing, just because you are prochoice doesn’t mean you are pro-aborton.
Oh, one thing I have learned about healthy families. We can agree to disagree, be ourselves, continue to love each other and tough it out together. I’m not going anywhere even if y’all want me too. stomp.
Amber, why you gotta intrude on our family fight? It was just getting good. (:
Hi Amber…to be sure there are sometimes disrespectful idiots outside of clinics. No doubt. Violent? I haven’t seen that but idiots? Yes…sometimes.
I have found that a good many folks who say they are pro-choice are really pro-abortion. When women choose life they get angry and they attack CPC’s that offer free help to women who want to choose life. So it is true that there are a lot of pro-abortion folks out there. However, when you call them pro-abortion they get ruffled because it doesn’t sound nice like “choice”. You can call me anti-abortion any day of the week and it won’t upset me.
I do know a few truly pro-CHOICE folks but they are few and far between. I have 2 friends that were pregnant and all the pro-“choice” people bullied them and railed against them when they decided not to abort (after originally scheduling abortions). So much for “choice” I guess. It was really abortion the angry people wanted…and when my 2 friends decided that was not the choice for them the folks pushing for an abortion were not too happy about it. Those 2 situations really started to open up my eyes about the mask of “pro-choice”.
Also debating here for a few years made me realize many folks are for abortion not choice. They don’t support school choice, or the choice to own a gun, or the choice to have 19 kids. When you start really quizzing them you realize it isn’t choice they support at all but abortion.
I’m pretty much the only person who consistently makes everyone mad. I cannot do this anymore, I can’t seem to learn any better.
But seriously I just want to say I know I’m not a good dad but I do my very best. I send Carla emails and ask her what to do because I don’t really know what to do and what’s normal, I try to do better. So I realize that my kids got screwed in the parent department and if they had a better mom I would have let her have custody, but I’m the best they got. And I do try. I realize I need to do better.
Jack…none of us are perfect. I’m a terrible mom sometimes. I get so stressed and I lose my temper with my oldest and his little face falls and I realize I just crushed his little spirit with my hateful attitude. I feel so ashamed…like what kind of monster am I?? I’ve said some mean things to him when I’ve been angry.
None of us are perfect parents. I know you try to be a good dad. You love your kids unconditionally and you protect them. THAT is most important Jack. Your kids will know you love them. There isn’t one undamaged human being on this planet. We’re all imperfect people trying to do our best in life. So don’t beat yourself up. You think things through deeply and that is more than a lot of people do. You are very thoughtful and I admire that so much about you.
And you’re not the only one who gets into debates here. I think you’ve always been respectful even though I don’t always agree with you. I’ve gotten snarky more times than I can count. Even with my pal Carla!! lol. She still loves me though.
We all put our big boy/girl pants on here and we can handle it. Don’t beat yourself up about it. The fact that you don’t just nod in agreement with everyone is refreshing and is also why you get into debates with people. There is no shame in that. I love reading you go back and forth with folks. You are never mean and snarky. So don’t feel bad over it.
It’s fortunate non of us are “packin'”. ;) Some computer moniters migh be trashed.
Jack, any answer to my Zimmerman post, or you done with arguing for tonight? ;)
Even though you have provided a good amount of information about yourself, your situation and your history, I really can’t claim to know ‘a lot’ about you Jack. Plenty of other people here appear to come with experiences as ‘not so good’ as yours have been.
But what I glean from what I am aware of is that your kids are luckier than many. They are probably happier than a lot are. They know how much you love and care for them and I would hope they feel secure.
I feel confident that your own future will get better and better. It might not be ‘truly excellent’ but it isn’t that way for most of us. But we can still be quite happy – basic contentment is undervalued.
Don’t let what the odd extremist oddball here says about you dishearten you.
I like the word “snarky.”
(I also like you, Jack, and Praxedes, and so many of the regular commenters here.)
———————————————————
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28).
Okay I’m sorry everyone I didn’t mean to have a pity party. I’ll be honest, my therapist has been changing my anti-depressants and I think it’s screwing up my thought process a bit and I’m really really depressed and I tend to act like a crazy person when that happens. I’ll be better in a couple weeks probably if everything gets straightened out. And my sister called me this afternoon to tell me my dad’s getting sicker, I already knew he had liver disease but I guess it’s getting pretty bad. And it’s awful because I honestly think he deserves to die, which makes me a pretty terrible person and a hypocrite.
How’s that for oversharing Alexandra? lol
Anyway Hans, Zimmerman did admit to getting out of the car and following Martin for a while. I do admit that the local media down here is pretty biased, southern Fl is like 70% Dem so most of our news tends quite liberal. I’ll look into it and if I think I’m wrong I’ll tell you. I will say I don’t think Zimmerman is an evil murderer (Ken grinds my gears as he well knows so when I reply to him I tend to exaggerate a lot), I think he started a situation that got out of hand, Martin contributed too but seeing as Zimmerman was an adult and Martin was just a kid I tend to think that Zimmerman is more responsible.
And thank you Sydney and Reality I’m glad you don’t think I’m a terrible parent. It’s seriously my biggest fear that I’ll irreparably damage them.
Well, Jack, if you think you’re a terrible parent, maybe it means you’re not. Sort of what they say when you think you might be crazy. ;) Wanting to do better is always the best way to actually do better.
Zimmerman wasn’t just some busybody. He was a neighborhood watch “captain”. If he had ill intent he wouldn’t be on the phone giving the authorities a running commentary of his suspicions. Anyway, the trial will be interesting I think it’ll make the Casey Anthony case look boring in comparison.
Seriously, Florida??
So since I think I’m crazy and a terrible parent I’m probably perfectly sane and a great dad. Sweetness.
Even if you don’t have ill intent, if someone dies because you do something stupid or start a situation that escalates you can be held accountable.
Florida sucks.
I’m seriously embarrassed please don’t hate me everyone.
I think I started the “snarky ” thing as Ionce told Jack you don’t. have to get snarky with me. Its been around a while . Anyway I believe we’ve squashed that and moved on. Jack Ive been here since 2006 and I don’t know what’s troubling you. I must have missed it. I hope you don’t leave and just know we all have bad things we are living through. I also like Praxes debate style . I hope you start feeling better. I mean it.
If somebody bashed my head on concrete I’d probably do something stupid too.
Don’t you go bashing your own head, Jack. You’re okay by me, and I think by just about everyone here.
If anyone here truthfully hates you Jack, they need serious help.
Some may hate the fact that you don’t live your life exactly the same way that they do but that isn’t hating you.
No matter how much denigration they may rain down upon you, some are projecting and others just can’t cope with difference.
Seriously though, you do need to get over this whole vegetarianism thing. I did, it took me 5 years but I did it ;-)
We all fall short. We are human. My husband died ( as you know) February 28th. My soon to be 3 year old keeps asking. “Where is daddy?” He wants dad to play trucks. I have days where I think I just can’t make it…but I am making it. One day at a time. I take. xanax to help my nerves and i also know I can come here and talk without being judged. I absolutely used to despise. a prochoicer here named Laura. God forgive me but I called her a curse word and got booted for 2 weeks. She was just too much for me. But I’ve grown and it’s nice to get along vent it out and have support of others.
I can’t imagine dealing with that Heather, seriously. I’m glad coming here helps you.
I also want you to know that I appreciated your sympathy. I don’t know what’s troubling you but I pray that God will take the burden away. As Sydney has stated sometimes we just don’t always agree. You/we all have different personalities so we don’t always have to agree. I hope you stay.
I trouble me Heather, that’s all. I’m stupid and I seriously need to quit drinking and making depression addled drunk comments on this blog and I seriously think it’s screwed up that I don’t care that my own dad is dying.
Thank you Hans.
Reality I think I just take things personally when I shouldnt.
Well Jack I have to deal with it…just to share…my dad died in 96. My son keeps asking “where’s George ?”There is nobody my son knows named George ..absolutely nobody but it is my father’s name. hmmmm makes me wonder . I know it’s not a therapy blog but i know it gives me some comfort .
Jack I think you’re being way too hard on yourself.
Alexandra ..how nice to hear you are pro life!! I was once pro choice myself .
One before bed…Tough times don’t last. Tough people do!!
Thank you Heather you’re really sweet. People please keep me in your thoughts or something, something wrong with me. Having some type of breakdown.
Heather ~ I can’t imagine! My dad went to heaven 3 years ago – he was only in his mid-fifties. But I got to have him with me for 33 years. My dad was only 3 when his own dad went to heaven, like your son. It made him who he is. God’s ways are not our ways. It will get better, but not because it actually gets easier – we just get better at it. God calls us so close to Him in our pain. He promises to be with you every step and with your son too!
Jack ~ I also cannot imagine. My story with my dad couldn’t be more different than yours. But I know that nothing really prepares you for gone, no matter how you feel about someone. Your grief may be very different, but I would expect it to take a significant emotional toll on you.
God is our heavenly Father. We are His dear children. It’s more than a beautiful analogy.
Ok prax…was gonna ask you to add me but i understand . I’m pretty blunt myself …thank you for the kind words!:)3
Hi Heather. Carla and Jill have my personal email if you ever want to go that route, let them know.
Jack, you have a lot of good things to say, and your perspective is worth sharing. There is a lot you say I very much agree with. You have not made me mad in any way and if I left such an impression I apologize. You are absolutely right; death and violence have become way too easy of an answer for so many people. Abortion is one evidence of that.
Everyone, this grandmother had already been threatened, a woman is walking toward her in a definitely threatening matter. Then she somehow ends up on the ground–and I don’t think she suddenly leaped in front of an oncoming women and got knocked over. Then this woman standing over her stomping, or stepping hard, or whatever you want to call it.
The attacker may have only been trying to stomp the phone, but how does Rae Stabosz know that? It is easy for me to see how she could have believed her life was in imminent danger. In the absence of anything else, I wonder if it may not have been in her mind necessary to her survival to shoot this woman. Hopefully, to wound to be sure. Definitely, along with what Jack said, my preference would be for pepper spray or tasering.
My real preference is that people not be so eager to keep others from exercising to freedoms that they resort to violence. Rae Stabosz had every right to be there, to pray and to record someone being taken from the PP in an ambulance (the media certainly won’t do it). We all have that right, as long as abortion is legal.
Nick Dorazio, I stand corrected. One earlier report had said that the PP worker had brought the phone back to Stabosz, but she did have to go and retrieve it. Without her phone, had no one else been there to call 911 or been there at all, this sad event could have been a lot worse.
As Sydney N says, the PP worker should be arrested for receiving stolen property, and in my opinion for potentially further endangering Grandma Rae.
Finally, of course, why hasn’t this attacker been found and arrested yet?
“Then this woman standing over her stomping, or stepping hard, or whatever you want to call it” – we simply don’t see that happen Victor.
Okay, sorry about last night. I was really overwrought and being dramatic because I got my feelers all hurt. I’m not going to stop posting. But anyway, I do want to say I am tired of people posting on unrelated conversations on this blog about my personal life and my personal flaws, and attacking me as a person instead of my posts. If someone has a problem with me or my personal life, please just email Carla for my personal email so we can have a private conversation (or if people actually want to say something good about me they can do that too!). I told her that someone can get it from her if they want to talk to me. I seriously cannot handle people poking at me in a public forum like that, it’s humiliating and I start acting like an idiot because I feel attacked.
So yeah, anyone who has a problem with me please just email me about it. I can’t fix things if people are just making me feel defensive and it’s embarrassing to have my flaws brought up in public repeatedly. I don’t want another comment war situation like I had with a certain other commenter.
And thanks to all for putting up with me when I act like a huge baby.
You start acting like an idiot because you choose to, Jack. I will not enable ypur poor choices.
I seriously can’t win can I? I’m not saying you can’t call me out on anything you think is wrong with me. You can, just shoot me an email or tell Carla. I’m just tired of threads getting derailed to become all about what’s wrong with Jack. It’s not fair to me, even if I am asking for it. And you’re not completely blameless in the situation.
Seriously, can you not see how that’s bullying behavior Prax? If you have a problem with someone, you don’t deal with it by posting passive aggressive comments about my personal life in threads where it doesn’t involve them at all.
I am a person with feelings, you know, even if you think I’m a whiner and I want people to feel sorry for me. I am sorry for my flaws, I know I have a lot of them. But you can’t try to humiliate me and then turn around and act like I’m the only problem, say you are sorry for hurting me, talk about how we are all one big happy family, and then when I offer a solution to fix what problems we’re having turn around and act like I have no right to be treated in a way that doesn’t hurt me. I have a crappy family, but I am pretty sure in actual healthy families you don’t do that
Jack, I bet you’re a much better dad than you realize. When your kids get older, they’ll probably tell you themselves.
You’re a champion Jack. Why let others here affect you with what they say to you or about you. Quite often people display such behaviors in an attempt to feel better about themselves.
Have the courage of your convictions. Many others here do. They’re often wrong of course, but at least they have that ;-)
You asked the questtion Jack. No hard feelings. Best of luck getting help for your drinking. Your family is worth it.
Here, I made an email without my real last name, so I can post it here and if anyone has a problem with me they can email me here and have at it. jackborsch12@gmail.com
If anyone posts about my personal life on this blog when I didn’t bring it up first, especially if they are trying to hurt me, I’m going to message the mods to have the comment removed. Seriously, it’s not right and it’s not good for my mental health.
Idk Reality, I actually really like everyone who posts here and I take what people say to heart.
Again you won’t take responsibility for your own actions, Prax. I didn’t ask you to be passive aggressive towards me nor bring up my personal life. After you did those things I tried to get you to tell me what the problem was because I had no idea what I had done wrong. You aren’t blameless, don’t act like it’s all my problem.
I’m seriously done discussing this on this blog. Email is available for any issues. Cannot do it.
“Then this woman standing over her stomping, or stepping hard, or whatever you want to call it” – we simply don’t see that happen Victor.
Reality, why don’t you just say you don’t see it happening. I haven’t heard anyone else here say that yet, though I could have missed something.
Whatever the woman was doing, even if just stepping over the grandmother, when you’re laying there it looks threatening especially when you’ve already been caused to fall in some way.
Or are you going to tell me that Stabosz was not threatened at all and had no reason to feel threatened?
The point is that Stabosz had a right to be there doing what she was doing, and the woman had no right to approach her in the first place, after wise-cracking about going to jail.
“why don’t you just say you don’t see it happening.” – none of us see it happening. Some think they do, some wish they did.
“I haven’t heard anyone else here say that yet,” – because it doesn’t suit what they want it to.
“Whever the woman was doing, even if just stepping over the grandmother, when you’re laying there” – in the footage it is Mrs S who is doing the ‘stepping over’, of the camera. She is not ‘laying there’ and all we see of Ms X is one of her feet on the ground. After that we see Mrs S between the EMT vehicle and another vehicle. We don’t see how she got there and we don’t see anyone else. Watch it again and tell me I’m wrong. Check out the clothing, you even get a quick, partial shot of Mrs S’s face and a hand. It is obviously her.
“after wise-cracking about going to jail” – you’re making an assumption.
And before anyone accuses me of being a drunk around my kids, I sent them to their grandparents for a few weeks. I don’t drink while my kids are in the house.
Reality can you just agree that the attacker was in the wrong for pushing the phone? Whatever else happened, the lady coming out of the clinic started it.
Jack,
Hang in there. Over a couple threads I’ve noticed exactly what you’re talking about. It’s uncalled for. Nice of you to provide your email, but I don’t think you have to do that. You don’t have to make yourself available for that kind of thing. With a few exceptions, I can’t think of anyone, including myself, who hasn’t said something stupid here in the heat of the moment when our buttons get pushed. You’re always willing to own up to it, though, which I really admire. I’m glad that you’ll still be commenting!
“Reality can you just agree that the attacker was in the wrong for pushing the phone?” – I’ve already stated that what she did may well constitute assault.
“Whatever else happened, the lady coming out of the clinic started it.” – and I asked how others would feel if some unknown, uninvited busybody was filming them while they were in a medical situation. I sure as heck would have been annoyed if some clown tried to film me when I was being carried to an EMT vehicle. And I know that any relative or friend with me would have acted to some extent.
That’s gonna be one heavily spammed email address Jack.
“I sure as heck would have been annoyed if some clown tried to film me when I was being carried to an EMT vehicle. And I know that any relative or friend with me would have acted to some extent.”
Unfortunately annoyance isn’t legal grounds for assault.
People can legally film from a public sidewalk, I wouldn’t care if it were me unless they tried to prevent my family from obtaining medical care.
Yeah it might be spammed. But I would rather people stop derailing threads to talk about my flaws, I’d rather just answer emails about how much I suck than see it all over a public blogs. You can email me Reality, I’ll talk you into being “Amit-choice” :)
*anti choice. Stupid phone.
“Unfortunately annoyance isn’t legal grounds for assault.” – oh I agree.
Whew, wondered where you were going with that for a moment Jack :-)
And thank you CT I appreciate your support.
And sometimes CT, it may well be ‘fortunate’ that annoyance isn’t legal grounds for assault. Otherwise you might get ‘citizens groups’ plugging people they don’t like.
I meant unfortunate for people who do think that annoyance is grounds to assault someone. They are in for a rude awakening. I certainly don’t think it should be a legal justification.
Ok CT :-)
Reality,
I just replayed the second tape ad nauseum, and unless Mrs. Stabosz is quite a contortionist, that was definitely the other woman’s leg sweeping into view to stomp the camera-phone on the ground.
Like another part of this thread, she went all “passive-aggressive” on it.
Actually, in both cases, you can just drop the “passive” part.
Prax okay will do.
“none of us see it happening. Some think they do, some wish they did.”
“because it doesn’t suit what they want it to.”
Reality, I’m just going to stop right there. I can’t discuss things with someone who knows what other people are thinking (or wishing) and what they want.
Me too Hans. We see a quick flash of Ms X’s legs in the periphery of the field of vision. Mrs S is stepping over the camera.
Victor, they told us. It was demonstrated by the words various commenters posted. I didn’t need to use any form of woo.
It looks to me like Mrs X knocked the camera out of Mrs S’s hands and Mrs S attempted to back up. Either Mrs S tripped or Ms X pushed her because a few frames later Ms X has the phone and Mrs S is on the ground. Anyway, it’s clearly an assault.