Gosnell verdict reached
2:27p: Per CNN’s David Ariosto (via Twitter): ‘The jury in the Philadelphia abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell case has reached a verdict on all 263 counts.”
Now waiting the verdict. Courtroom locked down. All electronic equipment ordered off, reporters banned from leaving courtroom until all the results are read.
2:30p: On Fox News, Megyn Kelly says she just saw an ultrasound of her 24-week-old baby, which is the age Pennsylvania law currently limits abortion.
3:35p: From @jdmullane on Twitter: “#Gosnell found not guilty in death of Baby E, who was heard emitting a single baby sound before neck was cut.”
3:55p: Who was Baby E? From the Grand Jury report:
We recommend that a murder charge be filed against Kermit Gosnell for the murder of “Baby E,” a baby that Ashley Baldwin heard crying before Gosnell killed it. Ashley testified that she heard the baby cry in the large procedure room, the one used for later-term abortions, and saw the baby moving. She said Lynda Williams summoned Dr. Gosnell, who then went into the procedure room where the baby was.
Kareema Cross testified that Ashley had called her over, and that she heard this baby “whine” once while Dr. Gosnell was alone in the procedure room with the baby. Ashley confirmed that Gosnell was the only person in the room with Baby E. When he came out of the room, the baby was dead. Gosnell put the baby’s remains in a waste bin. Ashley saw an incision in Baby’s E’s neck.
4:25: CNN Breaking News on Twitter: “#Gosnell was also found guilty of 21 counts of abortion of the unborn, 24 weeks or older. http://on.cnn.com/15Gugpj”
4:30p: CNN Breaking News on Twitter: “Gosnell also found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in anesthetic overdose in 2nd-trimester abortion.“
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
If a baby is not “alive” before it exits its mother’s womb, then what is it, dead? No, it is not dead, it is alive. Every single abortionist that murders a child before or after it is born is just as guilty as this ghoul.
Michael Medved just said 3 ccounts of “Guilty”, and then said “Thank the Lord!” Yes, indeed.
Hans, I just heard it, too, on his show. Amen!
Thanks be to God! Justice has been done for those poor babies. They were murdered!
Thankful for the jury for giving all this time for the trial and for finding this monster guilty!
Thank you Lord!!!
And, Gosnell could end up with some of you in Heaven if he repents and God forgives him.
Ain’t Christianity grand!
True that Merit.
“And, Gosnell could end up with some of you in Heaven if he repents and God forgives him.”
What a joy that would be! This is the greatest work of Our Lord- to turn the most hardened sinners into some his greatest saints. St Paul comes to mind…
Amen to the jury’s verdict. Actually, Gosnell should be guilty of hundreds of charges of first-degree murder … but human justice is imperfect. I’m thankful for the convictions that he received!
@Merit: Yes, if Gosnell repents and seeks the Lord’s forgiveness for his sins, he could receive the grace that Christ offers. You have correctly understood the Gospel, and it is Good News indeed. Because the same Love that yearns to forgive Gosnell also yearns to forgive you & me.
I’m glad he was convicted, but I didn’t doubt that he would be. I don’t think that the majority of people are so far gone they would ignore what he did to those babies.
But killing him won’t bring the babies back, don’t agree with the death penalty.
Wait, so will he be executed, Jack? Or is that still to be decided?
He hasn’t been sentenced yet, but he’s up for the death penalty possibly.
Merit, that’s the power of Christ. Amen!!
Merit, I know you intended to be snide, but you spoke the truth. God wants all of us to turn, repent and be saved. Including Gosnell.
Now we need to go after the rest. They’re ALL murderers.
I really want to oppose the death penalty in all cases….. then guys like Gosnell and Ariel Castro and the Boston Marathon bombers are brought forward to really test my resolve. They clearly deserve death, as much as their victims deserve life.
I am glad that I am not on that jury, or serving as that judge. I hope they find it in their hearts to give mercy and hope to a monster who deserves neither.
And I hope that life-without-parole is sufficient to scare the abortionists who have insufficient respect for the women and children in their care (guys like Carhart).
You can get the death penalty for clumpofcellsicide?
As a practical matter, Gosnell is 72 years old. Even if he gets the death penalty as a sentence, he’ll likely die from natural causes, prison violence or suicide before his sentence would be executed.
Discussion of Gosnell’s sentence is an academic exercise in moral reasoning. We have no influence on the outcome.
Praying for Gosnell’s repentence and salvation is a much more useful and merciful work.
Henrietta G. Tavish says:
May 13, 2013 at 5:20 pm
You can get the death penalty for clumpofcellsicide?
You seem to have missed all the pictures of those 24+ week-old children with their necks slit.
Yes, the murder of children who are born alive is a capital felony in Pennsylvania.
Meanwhile, all surgical abortions are committed against children who are well beyond that “clump-of-cells” stage of development. Every educated person knows this. You should be entitled to go back to your high school biology teacher and ask for a refund.
There is nothing special about Kermit Gosnell except for his willingness to commit 3rd trimester abortions. This puts him in the same class as other “heroes for Choice” like George Tiller, Susan Robinson, Shelley Sella, LeRoy Carhart, Warren Hern, James Pendergraft.
But the real question is:
Why do American mothers hire people like Gosnell, Robinson, Sella, Carhart, Hern or Pendergraft?
Why do they believe it is better for some doctor to torture to death a baby who was large enough for the mother to feel moving inside her?
The “humane” European countries do not permit late-term abortions. The United States is in the same category as other enlightened countries like the People’s Republic of China.
American mothers hiring cold-blooded killers like Gosnell and American mothers dragging their daughters into other abortion centers really put a somber pall on Mother’s Day remembrances.
I’ve read that these mothers are frightened and that is why they hire abortionists, but shouldn’t doctors offer hope to these frightened women instead of preying on their fears?
Kermit Gosnell may a;ready be saved, already be born-again. He grew up in the African-American community in Philly in the 1940s and 1950s. America was fairly Christian back then, as far as I can tell from history, including the African-American community.
For those who accept Jesus’ gift, most Chiristian theologies say, forgiveness cannot be taken away.
What Gosnell has done with his life was fail to dig into the Word and live a life that could have been much more of a light and example for others. He missed opportunities to encourage other physicians and fathers. He missed a lot of ministry opportunities.
He may have plenty of time left to figure out how he has moved so far off track, and lots of time to evangelize before the end of his life. If he gets a death sentence, it won’t happen anyrime soon.
I suspect he was a heavy drug addict – not too uncommon for physicians dealing with anesthetics a lot. Jail/prison may lead him to sober up. He won’t quite have the dependent sycophants around anymore. maybe his mind will clear up with those changes.
He could play a huge role in revealing how he and other physicians played a very influential role in changing the profession largely from being heavily pro-life to being heavily pro-abortion. This social movement needs to be exposed more so we can learn how these social processes that are so wrong can seem so right.
“You should be entitled to go back to your high school biology teacher and ask for a refund.”
That’s not how education was funded in my state. Students didn’t pay teachers directly — they received salaries funded by taxes. So there would be no way of getting a refund. Also, I doubt that legally you could get a refund just because the teaching was poor. More than likely, the school district would try to blame the student for not studying hard enough.
I wonder if Obama can comment on this now. Maybe a heartwarming stand for the injustice done to these newborns that he denied needed any protection?
Oh, and possibly an apology and an admission that he was wrong!
What about Ex-RINO. He is usually symbiotico with Obama on things. Where does Ex-RINO stand on the BAIPA?
Marit says:
And, Gosnell could end up with some of you in Heaven if he repents and God forgives him.
Ain’t Christianity grand!
Two things here: Yes, he could end up in Heaven.
Second: You sure sound a lot like our old friend, the troll CC.
Truth says:
I wonder if Obama can comment on this now.
Great point! But even the great hero to the abortion industry has to be careful tiptoeing around this one.
So, some of the Breitbart posters are saying Gosnell should have his spine snipped as part of his death penalty. I wonder if those who agree with that would also have approved of Karla Faye Tucker being axed to death as part of her death penalty? I know hypocrites like Pat Robertson wouldn’t–he felt born again Tucker should have been spared the death penalty because she found Jesus in jail. Tough, Pat–finding Jesus in jail shouldn’t mean a lighter sentence for anyone.
Henrietta G. Tavish says:
May 13, 2013 at 5:40 pm
“You should be entitled to go back to your high school biology teacher and ask for a refund.”
That’s not how education was funded in my state. Students didn’t pay teachers directly — they received salaries funded by taxes. So there would be no way of getting a refund. Also, I doubt that legally you could get a refund just because the teaching was poor. More than likely, the school district would try to blame the student for not studying hard enough.
Good point. Perhaps you owe the taxpayers in your district a refund for the money they invested in you.
Hi Jerry and ts,
Obama might comment if he thinks one of those dead babies would look like his son or daughter. Its always about Obama first. I mean, don’t we always tell bereaved parents how their dead child would resemble a child of ours?
TheLastDemocrat says:
May 13, 2013 at 5:39 pm
Kermit Gosnell may a;ready be saved, already be born-again. He grew up in the African-American community in Philly in the 1940s and 1950s. America was fairly Christian back then, as far as I can tell from history, including the African-American community.For those who accept Jesus’ gift, most Chiristian theologies say, forgiveness cannot be taken away.
Actually, the heresy of “once saved, always saved” is not common to most Christian theologies. (However, it is more common among American Christians than anywhere else in the world.)
We have to pray and hope that Gosnell will be humble enough to be sorry about his life’s work and ask for forgiveness.
Hi ts 6:26PM
Never expect an apology or admission of being wrong from a narcissist. Ain’t gonna happen.
The closest you may get is….” well ts, maybe I was rude to you, butttt you just got me so angry when you didn’t answer your phone.”
If not an apology then at least some stammering about what he meant when he said he wouldn’t want to burden the ‘doctor’s’ decision.
As I said when Tiller died, it would be a wonderful thing if this man were to have a conversion! What a joy if we had another Dr. Bernard Nathanson! What a wonderul advocate for the pro-life cause!
This is exactly why those such as Carla are such a powerful voice. Because conversion and love is the message of the pro-life cause and it is a BEAUTIFUL TRUTH!
Merit, you think you mock us, but you prove our point! We would LOVE a conversion from Gosnell. We would LOVE to see him deny Satan and turn to Christ! It would be a pro-life victory and a joy! Think Abby Johnson, think Bernard Nathanson, think Norma McCorvey (Roe of “Roe v Wade” notable), think Dr. Anthony Levatino, think Dr. Anthony Caruso, think Ruth Yorston, think Catherine Adair, think Dr. John Bruchalski, Sandra Cano (Doe of “Doe v Bolton” notable)
Have we turned against them? No, we have reached out with open arms. As we would with Gosnell. As we pray we one day might.
Obama might comment if he thinks one of those dead babies would look like his son or daughter. Its always about Obama first. I mean, don’t we always tell bereaved parents how their dead child would resemble a child of ours?
Mary,
Don’t count on it. Remember that Obama wouldn’t want his daughters “burdened” with a baby.
Great verdict – glad to see that the jury saw all life as life, and came to a just verdict.
Mary@7:26:
So true!
I will renew my offer to flip the switch, open the gas cock, administer the lethal injection, release the trap door, drop the guillotine and/or pull the trigger should Kermitt Gosnell, poster child for the ‘dead babies r us’ mob, be sentenced to death for murdering new born infants.
Should Kermitt Gosnell be sentenced to death, my only regret will be that he can only be executed once.
Now if you will excuse me I have to ask GOD for forgiveness for myself before I can intercede for Kermitt Gosnell.
But for the unmerited favor and grace of GOD, there go I.
Rather bloodthirsty Ken. You honestly scare me a bit.
Will the Gosnell conviction have any effect on abortion workers in other clinics/hospitals who witness the neglect or killing of infants born alive after an abortion? Maybe. His conviction can be a motivation to abortion workers who see things that they know just aren’t right, but don’t know what to do about it. If these workers learn about Gosnell’s conviction, then they now know what to do about the neglect and killing of live born aborted infants — take a photo and report what they see to the police.
Jack,
Your tepid response to mass murder does not suprise me in the least.
Your denial and intellectual dishonesty are predictable.
You can be Kermitt’s pen pal while he is awaiting his date with death, whether it be at the hands of a state appointed executioner, a fellow prisoner, his own hands or natural causes.
Be sure and give Gosnell his daily affirmations so he can feel better about himself before he dies.
Somehow I don’t believe you would be so noble if Kermitt had killed your puppies or your kittens.
“Justice was served to Kermit Gosnell today and he will pay the price for the atrocities he committed,” Ilyse Hogue, president of Naral Pro-Choice America, said in a statement. “Anti-choice politicians, and their unrelenting efforts to deny women access to safe and legal abortion care, will only drive more women to back-alley butchers like Kermit Gosnell.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/us/kermit-gosnell-abortion-doctor-found-guilty-of-murder.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp
Kermit Gosnell was not a ‘back alley butcher’. He hung his shingle on main street for all to see, but nearly everyone who had the legal authority to stop him looked the other way, pinched their long pointy noses and sang a little louder.
Ken,
Don’t wish yourself and the prolife movement out of a powerful witness. Killing Gosnell would not prevent harm to anyone any more than a life sentence would do. Yet it would prevent the opportunity for conversion and witness to the humanity of the pre-born. Let us not be bloodthirsty when there is no danger in showing mercy. The desire to kill out of anger or self-righteousness can only harm us.
Lulz Ken. Some of us don’t change our moral code depending on how repugnant we find the crime. I find it less repugnant to shoot an adult than to snip a child’s spine, but I don’t find the death penalty justifiable in either case. And some of us aren’t disturbingly fascinated by personally killing someone, so there’s that.
I vote death penalty but the problem is he will die before,the appeals process. Hope he repents If not he can rot in hell for all I care.
I am glad Gosnell got convicted and that Ken doesn’t have to kill him. Unlike Jack’s fear of Ken though; I feel safer knowing there are people like Ken to put an end to the Gosnell’s of the world.
Del says: “TheLastDemocrat says: Kermit Gosnell may a;ready be saved, already be born-again. He grew up in the African-American community in Philly in the 1940s and 1950s. America was fairly Christian back then, as far as I can tell from history, including the African-American community.For those who accept Jesus’ gift, most Chiristian theologies say, forgiveness cannot be taken away.”
Actually, the heresy of “once saved, always saved” is not common to most Christian theologies. (However, it is more common among American Christians than anywhere else in the world.)
We have to pray and hope that Gosnell will be humble enough to be sorry about his life’s work and ask for forgiveness.
Actually.
Actually.
Del, I would like to get actual.
I don’t care what continent my Bible is on. I don’t care. I don’t care what church’s roof it is under. I care what it says.
Why don’t you throw down some scripture regarding whether acceptance of salvation can be lost?
I feel safer knowing vigilantism is illegal, and I think it’s weird and creepy to publicly fantasize about killing people especially when they have already been convicted of murder and will most likely spend the rest of their lives in prison. That’s vengeance, not justice or protecting the public.
when will the pro-aborts be selling the ‘I am Kermit Gosnell’ tee-shirts?
Very truly, I tell you, whoever keeps my word will never see death. -John 8:51
Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.-John 14:12
If you love me, you will keep my commandments. -John 14:15
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear is not mine, but is from the Father who sent me. -John 14:24
So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.-James 2:12-17
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.-Revelation 2:10
These verses seem to clearly indicate that, by his works, we can see that Gosnell did NOT accept Christ.
Wow, it’s great to see justice finally served in this case. Now let’s just hope that he doesn’t get an appeals court to throw his convictions out on some technicality or something.
Jack, I am torn when it comes to death penalty. I don’t normally yearn for it but when people hurt and kill children? Sorry, yeah, I fantasize. It may be sinful and fleshly of me but there is the truth. I want people who hurt and kill children to get the same treatment. But yes, I agree with you vigilanteism is a bad thing. So it isn’t up to me what happens to Gosnell.
At the same time…yes I pray he repents. Whether he gets the death penalty or not I cannot imagine that man is not a tortured soul having participated in the countless murders of human babies. Maybe the fact that it is all over brings some relief to him (though we’ll never know). God can forgive and I pray Gosnell accepts that forgiveness and restoration.
I also agree with Merit that just because you find Jesus doesn’t mean you should get a lighter sentence. God is forgiving but He is also a God of justice and whatever Gosnell is sentenced to is what he deserves. The Bible does say “God is not mocked for whatsoever a man sows…that shall he also reap.” Gosnell sowed death and so he may very well reap his own death. “Whosoever sheds innocent blood, by man shall his blood be shed.” If our court system decides Gosnell will pay with his life…it will be just. And if they decide he will not pay with his life…then that is mercy.
Sydney I think all of us have some of those thoughts when it comes to people harming children. I don’t think it’s right to indulge and encourage them though. Vigilantism is quite a dangerous thing, and though Batman is a cool comic book character it’s not like we should try to emulate people taking the law into their own hands.
And no matter what you do to Gosnell the babies stay dead. You can’t bring them back. I’m just glad he’s behind bars and can’t harm anyone else.
Gotta love a Batman reference!
I’m generally against the death penalty, but yes, someone like Gosnell tries my patience. Part of being civilized is to tolerate his oxygen consumption. But it galls me.
I am also sometimes anti death penalty but this man has been a serial killer for years. Better yet a tiny cell for the remainder of his life could be worse.
And the morbid jokes he told about the babies ….I’m waiting for a nutty feminist to come and defend him. Putting this hero away and blah blah blah
“That’s vengeance, not justice or protecting the public.”
I am totally down with vengeance. That’s why I never liked Batman that much. He’s a pansy who’s afraid to get his hands dirty. I’m a Marvel girl, myself, so I’m for Punisher, all the way. I think typically-abled human beings who lack empathy for weak and helpless human beings are defective and have no place in a civilized society. Get rid of ’em.
I just hope a judge sympathetic to the cause of snipping the unwanted children doesn’t give this guy a break on sentencing.
TheLastDemocrat says:
Why don’t you throw down some scripture regarding whether acceptance of salvation can be lost?
Okay. There are many, but a few words of Jesus should be enough:
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
It is indeed necessary to profess that Jesus is Lord, and accept Him as your savior. But if one must also reject sin and live in virtue. If a person falls back into sin (say, by becoming an abortionist and serial murderer), then that person has made a new decision to reject Christ. Hollering “Lord, Lord — I knew you once!” will not merit mercy: Thus says the Lord.
Mt 18:21-35 The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant. You can look it up — The Master forgave the servant’s debt, but the servant failed to live out this mercy toward his fellow. So the Master removed his mercy, and served harsh justice to the servant.
And consider Acts 5:1-10 Ananias and Sapphira. These two followed Jesus and the Apostles, but the Holy Spirit punished them with death after they rejected Christ by their lying and greed.
I have a half-dozen more examples from the Bible, all like these. I do not know any examples from the Bible teaching that one can say the Sinners Prayer or do some other great work, and thus be permanently assured of his salvation even if he falls back into sin.
The notion that one can be permanently assured of salvation before one’s death and judgment was invented by Calvin during the Reformation. Jesus and the Apostles did not teach this. There are many more false teachings “in the Bible,” waiting for false teachers to want to find them. This is why “sola Scriptura” has failed to give us a unified Christian belief. This is why Jesus founded a Church, instead of writing a Scripture as Mohammed did.
Maybe we can put Gosnell and Castro together in one cell with nothing else, no books, no television, no window, no radio, no interwebs, no nothin’. See what pleasant company they find in each other.
ninek says:
May 14, 2013 at 2:02 pm
Maybe we can put Gosnell and Castro together in one cell with nothing else, no books, no television, no window, no radio, no interwebs, no nothin’. See what pleasant company they find in each other.
I can’t like this enough!!!!! I wonder if Ohio and Pennsylvania have an “inmate sharing” policy along the border somewhere!
Del, the Bible says the Father gives those who belong to Christ to Him and NO MAN can pluck them out of His hand. I would suspect NO MAN refers to ourselves as well.
The verse “Lord, Lord” is for pharisee type people. People who like to “play” Christian but have no real faith in their hearts, have never repented and never really knew Christ. It isn’t about losing salvation.
Del, the Israelites had to continually sacrifice a lamb for every sin. The blood offering didn’t last for long. Jesus was the Spotless Lamb and He cried “It is FINISHED!” on the cross. His blood atonement covered our sins once and for all. There isn’t a constant need for another sacrifice for our salvation. Our salvation is secure.
Del and others are presenting three scenarios, and so these answers are not clear.
One is where you hedge your bets and claim you recognize Jesus as Lord – when it is obvious or convenient. This is similar to Pascal’s Wager: “I’ll believe in God just in case.” Matt 7:21, Acts 5 may fit here.
One scenario is true salvation shown by “virtue” and absence of “sin.” So, if I sin, it is obvious I don’t have salvation. In my humble opinion, there are some impressively virtuous people commenting here; I cannot go very long without sinning / with living a virtuous life.
One is where a person deliberately turns his or her back on God after having accepted salvation through Jesus’ sacrifice. I think the story of Judas Iscariot might be in this category, although it is not clear. Here, you gain salvation, then go ahead and opt to lose it again. I am not familiar with a scripture that says, “Lord, I once knew you.” Book, chapter and verse would have to be cited for me to figure out what is going on there, in context.
Matt 18: parable of unmerciful servant – doesn’t directly address losing salvation. It is about role-modeling a forgiving heart. It also may be about the way that believers, as well as unbelievers, eventually will be judged.
“I do not know any examples from the Bible teaching that one can say the Sinners Prayer or do some other great work, and thus be permanently assured of his salvation even if he falls back into sin.” – I don’t either, because the sinner’s prayer itself is not in the Bible. There is one point where Jesus specificallhy says, ‘pray like this.” And it is not the sinner’s prayer.
John ch 6 notes Jesus saying, ‘For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life.”
That was not written by John Calvin, but ‘the one Jesus loved.’ John 3:16 is similar: ‘whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.’
It would be interesting to hear what people’s ideas of sin are – apparently, there are Christians commenting here who will maintain their salvation by avoiding sin, and believe that Christians who sin have, by sinning, lost salvation.
There are devout Christians who have voluntarily gone to the abortionist and aborted their not-yet-born baby. There are programs, such as Rachel’s Vineyard, that help these women realize that God still loves them, and that they can still be comforted that their sins are forgiving by a loving God.
Do any commenters hold the view that someone should inform those women that they have lost their salvation?
Well, praise and thanks be to God!
He should have been convicted of more, and there will almost certainly be appeals.
Still this is good. If even one first degree murder conviction sticks, it will go a long way toward stemming the tide to legalize infanticide.
But this is at least a win for the pro life side. Pro aborts will have some sort of defense like Oh he’s not you’re typical abortionist. They are kind compassionate healthcare providers and so on. They ARE all the same. Baby killing is baby killing .
Sin is awful and simple: Sin is the thing that separates one from the salvation of Christ.
When we choose Christ, we reject sin. When we turn back to sin, we turn ourselves away from Christ.
Yes… it is challenging. In between the first step of accepting Christ and the long goal of becoming a saint, there are many times when we will stumble into sin. We need to continue in repentance and ask for forgiveness. This is why Jesus, immediately after He completed His saving work on the Cross — He gave us priests to forgive our sins in His name!
John 20:21-23
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Jesus’ mercy is immense — but I have to humble enough to ask for it. I can’t assume that it will be given to me because of some prayer that I prayed when I was 13 years old.
I’ll share this on the loss of salvation, from 1 John 5:16-17. It contains some hope for the overly scrupulous — there are venial sins, which to do not fully separate one from Christ, just as there are mortal sins by which one rejects Christ and salvation:
16 “If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.”
TheLastDemocrat says:
May 14, 2013 at 3:39 pm
There are devout Christians who have voluntarily gone to the abortionist and aborted their not-yet-born baby. There are programs, such as Rachel’s Vineyard, that help these women realize that God still loves them, and that they can still be comforted that their sins are forgiving by a loving God.Do any commenters hold the view that someone should inform those women that they have lost their salvation?
You are being a troll.
Rachel’s Vineyard is built on Catholic theology and Scripture. We would never dare to judge someone else’s salvation — we cannot judge before Christ has judged, and Christ commanded us not to.
But the women who come — they already know, by their own pain, that their relationship with Christ is not right. We can offer them the forgiveness of Christ, and restoration, and the healing that this brings.
I have a dear friend, post-abortive, a devout Christian of the Lutheran variety. She is profoundly grateful for experience of Rachel’s Vineyard. For her sake, I will not tolerate anyone’s insulting that particular ministry in an effort to score a point in an interfaith debate.
Sydney M says:
May 14, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Del, the Bible says the Father gives those who belong to Christ to Him and NO MAN can pluck them out of His hand. I would suspect NO MAN refers to ourselves as well.
Actually, you are the only one who can turn yourself from Christ and embrace some false idol, some addictive sin, some false hope of happiness other than carrying your cross with Christ. But you are correct — no man or demon can separate you from Christ, if you decide to live in Christ and follow His commands.
Just remember to ask for forgiveness and start again on the path of virtue, every time you stumble.
Judas and Peter both betrayed Jesus. The only difference is that Peter turned back to Jesus, so Jesus could forgive him restore their relationship. Jesus would have forgiven Judas, too.
The danger comes to persons who like to believe that they are in Christ, but still cling to their sinful ways. We call this sin presumption. It is dangerous. These are the folks who cry out, full of faith, “Lord Lord” — and Jesus says that He does not know them. Faith alone is not enough…. we also have to follow Christ and live the virtues.
I think at a certain point all abortion Dr’s must face the fact of what really is going on and make a choice-are they against this kind of destruction, or do they enjoy in the revelry of it. Why did he keep the feet? is that the procedural first cut? Medically, a human being experiences a burst of hormones like no other they will ever receive int heir lifetime, the moment they are born. Some think this is the start of human consciousness. This, ‘adrenaline jump-start’ can happen inter-womb, though, and it is something to think about if that initiated a struggle between Gosnell and his living victims, being torn apart at his hands.
As Peter denied Christ 3 times, Christ asked him 3 times after the resurrection if he loved Him. And then he asked Him, “Feed my sheep.” and then he prophesied of Peters Martrydom as in Peter would follow Christ even unto death.
There are abortuary employees who come to the point where they see the death, and hate it and turn away from it, and there are those who see it and choose, and would never deny the fact that they see evil as a goodness, death as a virtue.
I am glad some justice is coming to Gosnell. Thank God for Jesus Christ.
“We would never dare to judge someone else’s salvation — we cannot judge before Christ has judged, and Christ commanded us not to.”
Above, people have fairly confidently declared that Gosnell has lost his salvation. That is what I am getting at. Go pull their comments up and rake them over the coals. I began this discussion by noting that we do not know whether Gosnell has already accepted Jesus’ redemption earlier in life, and so has already been saved, and is in the following challenging stage of earthely life, of working toward sanctification and trying to work sin out of his life a bit more every day.
There is also something in scripture about being. turned over to a reprobate mind. Castro sits in a cell walking around nude according to the local news here. Amanda was my husband’s sons cousin. Been watching them on the news all week. Is Gosnell reprobate? Is Castro? True only God knows. I do pray for abortionists. They too can enter heaven but Gosnell became warped and seems to enjoy killing. Perhaps both men will both be saved in prison although their sins are beyond heinous. We all do fall short. Add Jodi Arias to the mix. God is just and he will repay.
The discussion of the death penalty in this case raises again the problem of calling the movement to criminalize abortion “pro-life.” The term is inherently ambiguous which is why Jill Stanek, who supports the death penalty, got offended when a group mish-mashed “life” issues together, even placing abortion underneath the DP and above euthanasia and “human trafficking.” The death penalty can indeed be viewed as a “life” issue as can assisted suicide, euthanasia, and probably many other issues such as those about social welfare programs or smoking and drinking.
“Pro-Life” is not a good term because of its ambiguity and the tendency to get dragged into discussions about a variety of issues. The issue that concerns Stanek and most of you here is that of the legality or illegality of abortion. You are abortion criminalizers.
Abortion criminalizers are a varied group and have varied stances (sometimes none at all) on other “life” issues.
Re: pro-choice: They are pro-legal abortion. They support girls and women being legally able to terminate pregnancies at time periods in which embryos and fetuses will die if they are expelled from the womb.
There are a million and one choices that aren’t controversial.
The only evidence we have of whether or not someone is a Christian is what they do or don’t do. Gosnell may or may not have become a Christian at some point in his life. He has for years been aborting babies, murdering infants and endangering and killing mothers, in absolutely unsafe and filthy conditions, expressing bigotry and a callous and uncaring attitude toward life and toward those under his care. Those are certainly not the actions and characteristics of a Christian.
Now I know, no Christian is perfect. Christians sin. But this kind of lifestyle of sin does not exhibit Christ living in someone. If Gosnell ever became a Christian, it seems clear to me that he has turned his back on Christ.
However I will not judge whether or not Gosnell is a Christian or whether or not he has lost his salvation.
What is clear is that whether he is a Christian or not, he is a man in need of repentance from a lifestyle of grievous and horrible sins. I am praying for Gosnell to repent and live for Christ and be pro-life.
Life in prison gives him the opportunity to do just that, at least if they aren’t too easy on him.
The fact that he has not