Christian university retaliates against pro-life student for showing graphic reality of abortion
Four months ago Diana Jimenez had an epiphany.
“I was pro-life but had no idea what an abortion looked like,” Diana told me today by phone. “Then I actually saw a video of an abortion, and my heart broke in pieces.”
A senior nursing student at Biola, a Christian university in La Mirada, California, Diana (pictured right) promptly launched a pro-life group and invited Gregg Cunningham, executive director of the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform, to speak. After a great deal of energy was expended to publicize, only four students showed up.
Diana was compelled to attempt greater outreach, and the clock was ticking, with graduation just around the corner.
“I felt the need to expose the truth at the center of campus,” explained Diana. “The more I learned, the more I knew pictures were the most effective means. Pictures move beyond ways that words can express.”
Diana received permission to host a table with resources about abortion. On May 8 she, with a few representatives from CBR and two fellow students, set up her table after chapel let out, also displaying graphic signs of abortion.
In all, 1,500 students – some hostile – saw the signs before school administrators shut the group down.
“The campus safety officer’s biggest argument was, ‘You didn’t ask for permission,'” said Diana, who didn’t know she needed additional approval to show the signs. “They had a huge concern to not upset students, but it seemed no one gave a rip about the babies who are dying in the milions.”
So Diana wrote a letter asking for permission to hold one sign for one hour – and was promptly turned down by Associate Dean of Students Matthew Hooper, pictured left.
Diana met with Hooper, offering to erect a warning sign and to have resources and counselors on hand, “but he told me ‘visceral images are not appropriate,'” said Diana.
Diana begged and pleaded and tried to think of various ways to work with the school but was flatly rejected.
Hooper told The Biola University Chimes, “We would agree to them displaying them in areas that are more enclosed where students can choose to see them.”
Diana’s response? “We tried to do it in a building, and four people is the turnout we got. This is exactly what the enemy wants – to hide abortion, hide the truth,” said Diana. “And Christians are helping.”
So on May 17, exactly one week before graduation, Diana decided she was forced to override human authority and again try to show the truth about abortion to students.
Solo, with one sign, Diana was shut down within 10 minutes by campus chief of security John Ojeisekhoba, who threatened to have her arrested and to not be allowed to graduate.
Diana got that debacle on video, which CBR has juxtaposed with excerpts of a speech by Biola president, Dr. Barry Corey, challenging Biola students to have the courage to stand for their convictions. “Courage is the fruit of conviction,” opined Corey. “The two must remain inseparable”…
[youtube]http://youtu.be/3tILmCEUzio[/youtube]
In response to Ojeisekhoba’s threats to sue if Diana released the video, from CBR’s press release today:
She didn’t post this video. I, Gregg Cunningham, did, and I welcome any criminal or civil action the chief wishes to pursue. For his convenience, my contact information can be found at abortionNO.org.
Associate Dean Hooper followed up Diana’s second infraction with a letter threatening that if showed her signs a third time the consequences for “rebelling against authority” would be she couldn’t participate in commencement and would be banned from campus.
Meanwhile, Nurse Ratcheds exist in more than movies. Diana’s dean of nursing decided to take matters into her own hands and mete her own consequence. On May 22, Dr. Susan Elliott wrote a letter to all nursing faculty barring them from writing a letter of employment reference for Diana.
“She took this upon herself without being asked,” said Diana. “This effects my entire vocational career.”
Diana maintains Elliott’s consequence is not within her authority and also not in the Biola handbook. I hope a pro-life attorney helps Dr. Elliott see the error of her ways.
Ironically, Elliott went to Washington, D.C., in March to lobby for conscience protections.
Elliott needs to lobby herself.
“The hypocrisy I’ve seen is also disappointing,” lamented Diana. “When I told Dr. Elliott the punishment was inappropriate, she said I should have thought about that before. Seriously? I’m trying to save lives, and this is what she does?”
Diana has since written a letter to the Biola administration and nursing department faculty explaining her motivation for showing the reality of abortion.
“Most people on this campus would say they’re pro-life, but they don’t have a strong enough conviction to do anything about it,” said Diana. “You can say you’re a Christian all day long, but where’s the evidence? We are challenged at Biola to say what we believe and what are we going to do about it.
“Four months ago I didn’t know anything about the issue,” Diana concluded. “These last four months have changed my life forever. I can’t believe we’re doing absolutely nothing for these babies or the women.”
Take action. Per CBR:
We are urging people of conscience to email Biola and ask the administration to stop abusing its students with repressive restrictions on expressive rights.
Officials can be reached as follows: President Barry Corey, michele.hughes@biola.edu, Dean of Students Danny Paschall, danny.paschall@biola.edu, Associate Dean of Students Matthew Hooper, matthew.hooper@biola.edu, Police Chief John Ojeisekhoba, campus.safety@biola.edu.
Please also post comments below the YouTube video depicting Ms. Jimenez’s mistreatment at http://youtu.be/3tILmCEUzio.
UPDATE: Biola has sent me a link to its response.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Biola surely mishandled this. They could have come up with a workable solution.
What is Biola afraid of?
Anyone can say they are a Christian just like anyone can say they are a hamburger.
Let’s not be fooled.
Thanks for exposing this to the rest of us. We can only hope that those who say they are Christians are.
I think I’ll wait until I’m in a calmer state of mind to send any e-mails, but thanks for the info.
Goodness me, what is going on!
The doyen of catholicism tells us the church is surrendering.
Eleventy thousand churches are putting their hands over their eyes and their fingers in their ears (that’s gotta be tricky) and going ‘La La La’ rather than blockade clinics.
And now a creationist ‘university’ won’t support anti-choice activism on its own campus!
One has to wonder.
Thank you Diana! I am so proud of you!!! It is not easy standing up against those who try so hard to silence you. If you come across this, know that you are among many friends here at Jills — oh and a few trolls show up once in awhile too. (:
Stay strong. Many prayers and good thoughts coming your way.
This is deplorable. I’m to angry to write coherently so I’ll just leave it at that for the moment. >:(
all it takes is for any ant-life liberal to see the procedure of a innocent human life being torn out of a uterus would change your opinion, if you have healthy children all I can say is god sparred you of this disgusting form of murder, anyone who is pro choice should spend a little time in hell after they die if it was up to me, this is human life is there anything more precious ?
What happened to Free Speech?
Since changing it’s name from Bible Institute Of Los Angeles to Biola, the university has become no longer Christian except in the sense the Richard Dawkins claims to be so. Merely “culturally christian” but not *actually* Christian. So the headline, though attention getting, is false. The true headline “Non-Christian university retaliates…” is something we take for granted these days.
I would like to see the schools version of events. Rabid pro-lifers and knee jerk websites like this one would never mislead what really happened would they?
Well, no surprise here. More and more Christians are afraid to stand up for truth. I just heard from a reputable source that Moody Bible Institute initially said “no” to a pro-life club at their school, b/c it was “too controversial.” They eventually capitulated, but do you believe this? Time to start putting pressure on these schools to stand up or become irrelevant.
Shame on Biola for discouraging a sister in Christ from taking a stand for her faith among her peers. Count it all as joy, Diana, for your faith is being refined! I’ll be sharing this whenever and wherever possible!
I am not religious, but believe in loving all people, including the unborn, and I support what this girl is doing. These administrators are the worst kind of Christians. The ones who preach all day but judge others and don’t love them.
Way to go Diana!
Here is hoping that Ms. Elliot will come to her senses and show some mercy and compassion to Diana, to seek forgiveness from Diana for wronging her, and to begin to feel a little ashamed for not standing up for the preborn.
First, lets be honest: this is some biased “journalism” and we are clearly only getting onside of the story.
Second, who cares that they wouldn’t allow her to display her posters. It is a private university and their property, so if they don’t want those posters, crosses, Muslims, gays, etc., out there doing their protests, then that is their business.
Third, the sheer arrogance & stupidity of people in this thread to call in peoples Christianity because they aren’t as myopic on an issue as they is beyond silly. How much are you guys doing for the sex trade? Pornography? Against gay marriage, etc.? It is beyond absurd for “Christians” to rail against other “Christians” because they aren’t committed to a particular political cause that they think they should.
Fourth, I can think porn is evil, but don’t believe it is necessary to show posters in the center in the center of campus to try to rial people up for my cause. If the school thinks the posters are in bad test, then that is their prerogative.
Diana, if you want to be “radical” or whatever you think you are, then live with the consequences. If your cause is so worthy that you can’t get a job, can’t graduate, etc., then so be it.
Wow, we’re really reeling the trolls in today, aren’t we? Like moths to a candle…
“Wow, we’re really reeling the trolls in today, aren’t we?”
True, now let’s see if we can avoid feeding them.
What a JOKE of a “Christian” university. You know what Biola? God says He will SPEW you from His mouth. And you WILL answer one day about why you aided the Enemy in hiding the truth of abortion. I’m sure there are Biola students who have or will have abortions. The blood is on YOUR hands Biola.
No wonder abortion is legal. The church is complacent in the deaths of 56 million babies and I fear the wrath and judgement coming to the people of God. We are more culpable than non-Christians because we have the Holy Spirit to guide us yet we are stubborn like sheep and want to go our own way. We’d rather have comfortable Christianity where we can go to church and sing pretty songs and think we somehow honored God. Faith without works is DEAD and the Word of God says what we did to the least of our brethren we did to Christ. So think on that Biola.
Students in college are not little kids. They are ADULTS so start treating them like adults Biola. You gonna be there the rest of their lives to shield them from the nasty realities of a sin-laden world? You gonna hide the photos of bombings in the middle east, abortion victims, rape victims etc??? If these college kids are old enough to get abortions they are old enough to see them.
Yikes. I really hate to see the slaughter of innocents summarized as a “political cause”. Abortion is an abhorrent human rights violation, not a political issue.
Yea, yea, yea, God will spew them out, b/c they don’t allow abortion pictures on their campus.
You guys are so myopic, your cause has lost a whole culture due to your irrational approach, and all you can do is scream.
Lrning, what does Diana hope to achieve by showing the posters? She wants some sort of political action, correct? She wants the State to intervene to stop, which is inherently political. What is the def of “political?” ”Of, relating to, or dealing with the structure or affairs of government, politics, or the state.” hmmmmm, seems like a political cause.
Anyway, anyone worth their Christian salt would know that “human rights” are predicated on humanism and not Christianity. Go home, study up, show yourself approved, then enter the arena.
A bunch of angry jokesters on this board claiming to be Christians. Keep up the “good work” while you continue to lose the cultural battle.
Little Jeremiah,
I missed your post earlier, but that deserves a thousand likes.
The nerve of them!!!
Tozer are you a Christian? If not how can I possibly explain my righteous anger over someone claiming Christ but actively trying to prevent people from stopping what God abhors? If you are…then SHAME ON YOU cause you are one of the lukewarm that God will spew from His mouth.
It isn’t just that they wouldn’t show graphic images. It is that they are actively trying to ruin this woman’s future career in nursing. It is all of it together. This university is anything but Christian. And I’m basing this on the Word of God Tozer, not my little feelings or my piddling opinions. The WORD OF GOD. That is what we hold as the standard Tozer.
LOL. Tozer, looks like you might need to “study up” yourself. Pro-lifers are losing the cultural battle? https://www.jillstanek.com/2013/06/pro-life-vid-of-day-pro-life-youth-not-the-future-theyre-the-now/
what does Diana hope to achieve by showing the posters?
Did you read the post before commenting?
Diana has since written a letter to the Biola administration and nursing department faculty explaining her motivation for showing the reality of abortion.
“Most people on this campus would say they’re pro-life, but they don’t have a strong enough conviction to do anything about it,” said Diana. “You can say you’re a Christian all day long, but where’s the evidence? We are challenged at Biola to say what we believe and what are we going to do about it.
“Four months ago I didn’t know anything about the issue,” Diana concluded. “These last four months have changed my life forever. I can’t believe we’re doing absolutely nothing for these babies or the women.”
She wants the State to intervene…
You think she’s showing graphic pictures of abortion on campus because she wants “the State” to intervene?
“human rights” are predicated on humanism and not Christianity
Hahahahahaha! Yep, that Christian Bible has nothing to say about humans all being equal in the eyes of God or how we are to treat the most vulnerable and weak. Pfft.
While we will probably not be able to sway the misguided thoughts and practices of those in authority at this place of higher learning, we can commend the efforts of the student to enlighten and educate where the faculty of said institute has failed. You have chosen a hard road, my friend. God be with you in your efforts. I pray that you will reach those that need it most.
I’m always mystified by the tendency to allow an act to occur and simultaneously to disallow anyone from showing a picture of it.
Universities are no longer places where young minds are encouraged to ask questions and challenge authority/status quo. No – you must assimilate.
I am confident that if she was showing pictures of murdered baby seals or protesting war with graphic pictures, that would have been A-OK.
This world is so messed up.
Apathetic.
Remember the words of our Savior: Blessed are you when you are insulted, persecuted and slandered because of Me. [Matt 5:11] Great is your reward.
Opening people’s eyes to the evil of abortion and what really takes place is standing for truth.
Greater is He who is in you than he who is in this world [and apparently running Biola Univ]. The Lord may have bigger plans for you than ‘merely’ nursing. HE will provide you a job with OR without those recommendations. He is Sovereign over all, including those recommendations.
My prayer is that you will find His comfort and peace in the midst of this trial.
This University is afraid of the 1500 angry students that will take their money to another place that will not be so in their face. The almighty dollar wins.
Completely disagree with Biola’s response. Completely impotent.
Logical discussions regarding abortion aren’t offensive – nor effective.
Only a visceral visual has the impact to move people.
The fact they are responding as such shows the real offense.
Looks like it’s time to write some faculty and guest lecturers.
God Bless You Diana for standing in the gap for the most innocent of innocents. May God continue to use you for His glory!!!
“Overriding human authority” does occasionally have its consequences.
If Ms. Jimenez reads this, here’s a piece of advice from someone who actually works in academia: you are not going to succeed in bludgeoning the dean of your department into submission with a counter-offensive. A flood of angry emails to university officials from readers of a right-wing blog is not going to help your case. If I were in Dr. Elliott’s position, reading this nonsense would only confirm to me that you’ve learned absolutely nothing and that my decision was sound.
Biola needs to stop calling itself a Christian university. What a joke.
Sydney,
yes, a christian. I don’t see an ounce of Bible in your post, so how are you basing your judgment on the Word? I am lukewarm because a girl rebelled against those over her and put posters on campus that they told her not too? The hypocrisy is rich. You are so on fire for Jesus it is unbelievable that you know who is and who is not lukewarm due to a couple of posts and one story on a blog. Good stuff, Sydney.
Re: ruining her future. Prey tell, what info are you privy to that you know exactly how this girl has behaved with the woman trying to “ruin” her career? Do you know for absolute certainty all of their exchanges and all the reasons why Dr Elliott, assuming it is even properly reported here, took such action?
The Christianity displayed in your post is rich. Keep up the good work.
So joan I take it you can’t handle graphic abortion photos either. It would be too hard on you to see the truth. You killed your siblings brother or sister. If you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything. Just as you sold out to the abortion industry and let some abortionist
rip your kid limb from limb
This is shameful…
Thank you for your input, Heather, and I wish you the best of luck in overcoming your obvious drinking problem. Give AA a try.
Lrning,
Study yourself up: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2011/07/26/americans-show-rising-support-for-abortion-rights-poll
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/01/22/poll-on-roe-v-wade-anniversary-most-want-decision-to-stay/
Yes, I read, but did you actually read my post or did you just want to respond? My paragraph deals w/ a response to you re: “political” cause. Ok, lets say all the students are in, what is her end game? Does she just hope they all hold posters on Biola’s campus? How many children has Diana adopted? To say they do “nothing” is irrational. They may not be doing what she thinks they should be doing, but that’s not the same as doing nothing. Also, it is a nonsequiter to move from Christians to acting socially a specific way re: abortion. For example, I could imagine how Lukewarm and how God is going to spit Paul out of his mouth, b/c of his willingness to send Onisimus back to Philemon. Where is the “human right” to liberty?
Yes, I think she’s showing pictures on campus, b/c she thinks it will prompt people to act a certain way, which will include political and social activism to get the State to act a certain way? Are you suggesting that Diana wants to keep abortion completely legal?
Where does the Bible speak about human rights? Do we have the “human right” to religious freedom per Bible? What about the right to free speech and blaspheme God? Human rights ain’t found in the Bile. Go study.
Diana, God bless you for your stand…we cannot be silenced if good people do something instead of nothing to stop evil!
Y’all are feeding the trolls…
Joan i don’t drink you must have me confused with someone else
Biola used to be a good Christian school. It seems like more Christian schools and churches are falling away from God and falling into this culture of evil. The wheat is being separated from the chaff.
Biola ought to be ashamed of their behavior.
Joan when you said childbirth was like taking a dump was your abortion like taking a surgically induced dump?
Dale says I think probably the most relevant factor as to the true identity of the University:
Since changing it’s name from Bible Institute Of Los Angeles to Biola, the university has become no longer Christian except in the sense the Richard Dawkins claims to be so. Merely “culturally christian” but not *actually* Christian. So the headline, though attention getting, is false. The true headline “Non-Christian university retaliates…” is something we take for granted these days
That certainly explains a lot. We have seen hundreds of colleges and universities lose their identity, even though some aspects of the old remain and the stately buildings and beauty of the campuses evoke fond remembrances of days gone by…nevertheless they are a shell of their former selves. Most have sold out to political correctness and to the need to be seen as “with it” enough to attract students. Odds are good that is exactly what happened to this particular institution.
Joan are you in the bottle tonight? Just wondering because you goofed and called me a drinker. I feel sorry for your kids though. A mom with no morals.
I wish every Christian could/would see graphic images of aborted babies created in the image of God. If one claims to be a Christian and are not moved to prayer and action for these lives lost (both the babies and the women that believed a lie), then I would question what is really in you–a heart of stone or of soft, malleble clay in the Potter’s Hand??
“if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will HEAL their land” 2 Chronicles 7:14
If pictures were or could be the most effective means of getting a point across and if pictures were able to move people beyond ways that words cannot express then God would have included pictures in the bible. Also, doesn’t 1 Timothy 2:12 apply here?
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Chris – Oh, are you referring to icons?
If the signs didn’t work they wouldn’t want them there. Nothing better than watching a pro abort foaming at the mouth over a sign because they have no defense. lol
Some say the signs are fake. Then why get so upset. We had a big display down town one day. Many women wanted to talk to pro lifers because their pain was killing them. One African American woman totally broke and said “I can’t pretend anymore . I just can’t. I killed my baby.” We pro lifers were there with open arms and literature for healing groups. One step to healing. Their hard cold exterior broken.
I am pro life. that may need to be said up front. I guess my smh moment when I read of these things is knowing how much someone can be persecuted in one sense for “grafic content”, but when i look around and see and listen to the grafic way that other things are out there in our world (i mean it’s getting harder and harder to even walk out your front door or even have a television without seeing something innappropriate). and those with a more conservative view are just expected to “suck it up”. well, why do folks who have a more liberal view not have to “suck it up”. I mean this is not even about appropriate or not. Its just truth. i mean i wouldn’t agree that it should be an elementary school program, but this is a college campus. the students there are adults and should be able to handle and in all reality i would expect them to WANT to know the whole truth, expecially if a young lady on campus is considering this decision for herself.
its people like this that give Christians a bad name the girl did nothing wrong those pictures are things that people need to see so that they can see how sickening and horrible the practice is if showing people pictures like that are the only way to get them to see how horrible it is then so be it people need to realize that when they get stupid they need to take responsibility for there actions abortion is a crime against god and murder of the highest degree
Jasper i will email them too!
If I lived in that area, I would find out where those administrators live and then walk up and down the sidewalk in front of their homes with the images of the murdered preborn. I would also picket in front of their churches. I show images of the murdered preborn all the time in my ministry work and I tell people who oppose what I do that it’s only fair that since Christians have allowed abortion to go unchallenged for over 40 years that it’s only fair that they have to look at it and explain to their children what happened to the bloody, broken baby.
I am appalled at Biola!!! No longer will I consider this a “Christian” University! No, no longer! I am utterly ashamed of the schools President, Administrators and Head of Nursing!!! THEY EACH WILL HAVE TO STAND BEFORE A HOLY GOD AND GIVE ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS! They are so “un-Christlike” that there is no way I can believe they are genuine followers of Christ. In my opinion they are “Counterfeit” Christians and nothing more. This precious girl will receive the Crown of Righteousness from her Lord, Savior, and Master. The others will receive the Lord’s disapproval and admonishment! GOD HELP BIOLA! (Sickens me to hear the President talk about being men and women of “Conviction!” What a fake!)
Mishandled by the administration for sure. Dr.Elliot definitely crossed the line. This student will have no problem getting a job.
TWITTER users! Tweet @biolau and let’s get some attention directed to this issue on Twitter.
Those horrific images of abortion hardly work: The more the public sees them, the more they become desnsitized to them and to the act itself. As for fighting against abortion, how about supplying information on contraceptives since people will have sex no matter what ethnic group or religious persuasion they are? Also, how about a support system for those who chose not to abort as they are more likely to have children who wind up on welfare and on the prison rolls if their lives are not claimed by the streets?
Tim W.
The signs do work. Speak for yourself. If YOU are desensitized to the brutal murder of innocent human beings it says more about you than the graphic horrifying act of abortion! People do not know what an abortion DOES to an innocent human being. Graphic photos clear that up pretty quickly.
PP supplies all the info on contraception, oral sex, masturbation and homosexuality that anyone could possibly need. They are happy to oblige you and offer free condoms for everyone!!!
A support system? They are called Pregnancy Care Centers!!
And children whose mothers choose life will wind up in prison and on welfare or claimed by the streets?! Got any stats on that??
Before you comment you might want to do your homework Tim. Oy.
Dear Tim,
As you probably know those comments you made are not at all new and are irrelevant. Those horrific images do work. Why is it that you will never see an abortion on CNN. They show all types of medical procedures, but why not abortion? Answer: seeing an abortion will deter abortion and the left doesn’t want that.
Christian organizations all over the world supply contraceptive sexual health information. There are Christian adoption agencies all over the world. Your last statement is the most illogical: you cannot support killing fetuses on the prediction that they might be homeless in the future. Do you want to turn homeless shelters into nazi death camps? Beethoven was once both homeless and penniless. By your logic it would have been best to abort him.
Tozer,
1. Meh. I put no stock in polls. Actions speak louder. The youth are increasingly pro-life.
2. What’s her end game? Based on her statements, I would say her goal is to educate her fellow students on the true horror of abortion and motivate them to take action. Perhaps her activism will encourage students to pray/protest outside abortion clinics, volunteer at or organize a donation drive for a crisis pregnancy center, get involved in post-abortion healing, or any number of other pro-life activities. They may even be motivated to get involved politically. Yes, abortion is addressed in the political sphere, but it is not simply a political issue. Is unjust killing a political issue?
3. Human rights = inalienable rights (God-given) that humans are entitled to simply because they are human. You seem to be confusing Constitutional rights with human rights. You find no support for God as Creator and arbiter of human life in the Bible? Thou Shalt Not Kill has no relation to abortion? Thanks for the suggestion to study. I’ve been studying the Bible for years. That’s how I know that humans, created in the image and likeness of God, have a right to life and should not be unjustly killed.
I posted your story on the university website this morning, and they took it down within 5 minutes.
re: “visceral images are not appropriate,”
so… Christ on the cross, a no-go on this campus?
Does this man believe he knows better than our Father about what is appropriate and what is not?
The saddest part of all of this is that 3,500 more babies will be slaughtered today.
The next saddest thing? Christians who try to justify abortion.
Yes, porn is evil, but it’s not murder. We must stop the slaughter of the preborn.
I actually feel a bit sorry for the Biola campus administration. They have a duty to maintain order and decorum on their campus. It is not always easy, and administrators don’t always make the best decisions.
Meanwhile, students are becoming acutely aware of the murders of a quarter of their generation. Like students of every generation, some are determined to right the human rights abuses of their age. Nowadays, many are concerned about abuse of the environment, abuse of poor immigrants, and the brutal-but-legal murder of children.
The graphic abortion demonstrations are not any different from the anti-war demonstrations of the Viet Nam era. Campuses struggle to support their students and yet maintain order, at the same time.
HOWEVER — The actions of Dr. Susan Elliott are beyond the pale. Without need or cause, she has overstepped her authority and entered into the realm of prejudice. Can she really sanction the educators in her department? Even if a professor admires the student’s ability and supports the pro-life cause? Would Dr. Elliott have behaved so vindictively if Diana Jimenez were white, or male, or of non-Hispanic heritage?
This: ”I hope a pro-life attorney helps Dr. Elliott see the error of her ways.”
BLESSED ARE THEY THAT SUFFER PERSECUTION FOR JUSTICE SAKE, FOR THEIRS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!! GOD BLESS YOU DIANA!
http://www.sba-list.org/suzy-b-blog/america%E2%80%99s-youth-more-pro-life-ever
And, it’s great that you linked to an article touting that most people want Roe vs. Wade to stay intact. But what you might not know is that a lot of people under 30 don’t even know what that means or entails:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/forty-years-after-roe-v-wade-most-under-30-dont-know-case-was-about-abortion/2013/01/16/b8287662-5fee-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_blog.html
So, really, the polls are actually on our side, too. :3
Awww, do da wittle proffessors at da widdle university find da pitures scawy?
poor widdle John & poor susan, poor barry. You must be so sensitive, are you crying when you see these image
s? OR are you sacred for your power like the pharisees, those noble idiots who in claiming to defend God, demanded the torture and death of his ONLY son.
aww, poor babies.
Hell is for real, and it’s eternal.
Lrning,
1. Well, obviously said actions need to be interpreted, i.e. is pregnancy rate down, how are they voting, etc.? One thing is clear – pro-lifers are losing the cultural war BIG TIME. Hence all the animosity on these types of sites. If you were winning, then you would have some more swag, but you have the disposition of a team on defense with 2 minutes to go, down by 3 scores, and no timeouts. A lot of pushing and yelling, but no results.
2. By and large, unjust killing is a political issue, b/c it pertains to the Stats actions. What percentage of her classmates have prayed about abortion? IF she is just seeking something like that, can you demonstrate that they are not praying about abortion? That as members of their local churches they are involved in healing, etc. Namely, pro-life isn’t just ranting and raving publicly and may look nothing like a “pro-life” cause.
3. Your sloppy thinking is unprecedented. Inalienable deals with unable to be taken away from, but then you go on and qualify things with “arbiter” and “unjustly.” Also, the fact that one “shall not kill” doesn’t mean I have an “inalienable” right to life, as your qualifications go on to state.
Finally, your gonna have to redefine “human rights” to get them to fit with the Bible’s teachings - http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Courtnay said: The saddest part of all of this is that 3,500 more babies will be slaughtered today.
The next saddest thing? Christians who try to justify abortion.
Yet, tens of thousands of children die every day due to malnutrition or disease. Where is god taking care of these little ones?
Face it there is no god..
As a generic “Christian” (one who believes in the big concepts of Christianity, but does not ascribe to a particular “flavor” (ie: Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Baptist etc) I can tell you the most appalling aspect of this whole incident , is not the slaughter of innocent babies… while I certainly view that as a crime against humanity, it has been “justified” and “legalized” and “minimized” by our current culture. And we need to work tirelessly to turn that tide. NO, What I find particularly appalling is the hypocrisy and emptiness of the words spoken by the University President. I cannot tell you how huge a turn off it is to have people talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Standards mean something. This abortion battle will not be won, until the “Church” and those that believe, sanction those that condone it. Public shaming, accountability, the actual “kicking out” of the church of those who support or condone it. This is what it means to be a (fill in the blank) This does not stand. I realize I am spiritually more attuned to “orthodox” viewpoints. I simply view the University President’s speech as rhetoric, empty rhetoric, and the cynical side of me thinks that it is simply said to attract believers and fleece them of their money. By spoken words this may be a “Christian” University, but by action it is a secular leftist member of the Pro Choice “Borg”. Resistance is futile, you will conform or will will destroy you. Shameful really. To that end though, I will certainly join in this “wind mill tilt” against those forces that wish to silence and punish a speaker of “truth”. I will email the University members whose emails are listed here expressing my dismay over the incongruity of their words and actions, I will also email the Head of Nursing whose email address you should supply. I will also forward this video to all I know, as I have already posted on Facebook to the 400+ friends there.
Tozer,
http://www.sba-list.org/suzy-b-blog/america%E2%80%99s-youth-more-pro-life-ever And, it’s great that you linked to an article touting that most people want Roe vs. Wade to stay intact. But what you might not know is that a lot of people under 30 don’t even know what that means or entails:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/forty-years-after-roe-v-wade-most-under-30-dont-know-case-was-about-abortion/2013/01/16/b8287662-5fee-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_blog.html
So, really, the polls are actually on our side, too. :3
I got your swag right here, pal.
little jeremiah,
“Face it there is no god..”
I don’t believe there is a god. But I applaud this woman doing what she can to stop the killing. How does the presence or absence of a god justify killing thousands of children in utero every day?
I’m pro-choice, that is my opinion, however, this appears to be a First Amendment issue more than a pro-life/pro-choice issue.
First Amendment rights were violated – there’s no arguing that. I don’t like what Diana has to say and I don’t certainly think a law should tell a woman what she can and can’t do with her body, especially when it comes to the personal decision of abortion (regardless of the situation). I also don’t agree with the misinformation that gets spread around regarding abortions (i.e. using images of illegal abortions to protest legal abortions, et cetera.)
But regardless of how I feel about what she or any other pro-lifer says I will always agree that they have a right to say it.
Private institutions may do as they please (I’m unfamiliar with BIOLA, but I’m assuming since it’s a Bible College then it is a private institution) however, they are absolutely wrong for trying to strongarm Diana in to silencing her position.
The forced viewing of graphic and disturbing images have nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of abortions. She claims that her heart broke when she saw a video of an abortion. Would her heart break if she saw a graphic video of any other procedure? Surgeries are gross, no matter what is being removed. She got angry because no one cared about her presentation so the best way to make people care was to show some heart breaking images and horrify spectators without their knowledge or consent into believing what she believes. Abortions are either morally ok, or morally not ok. This decision is made by individuals who contemplate the issue based on their own moral compass and in this case the guidance of the Bible. Graphic images do nothing to make abortions more morally wrong. It either is or isn’t. Make the choice for yourself using intelligence and your own moral compass.
Her intentions seem right, but she could use some help in organizing (the whole story started with a poorly attended event). And yes, the private University’s rules should be followed even by Christians :). She made her choice when she enrolled at Biola. I find this article one sided.
Also, if it were me. When the university said, stop doing this or there will be consequences. I might have stopped until I was done with them and then go about attempting to traumatize people on my own time with no one around to stop me. But then I think before I do things so…
“I don’t certainly think a law should tell a woman what she can and can’t do with her body, especially when it comes to the personal decision of abortion (regardless of the situation).”
Nobody’s trying to pass a law to tell a woman what she can and can’t do with her body. We’re trying to pass a law to tell a woman that she can’t harm the body of her child in utero. When I was pregnant with my children, their bodies were not a part of my body.
Would her heart break if she saw a graphic video of any other procedure? Surgeries are gross, no matter what is being removed.
As a Pro-Lifer who has always had a great interest in the medical field from a very early age, I used to watch The Operation on TLC every Sunday while eating my waffles with strawberry jam. I have fond memories of this in 6th grade. Seeing abortion footage turns my stomach TO THIS DAY, because it’s not just a surgery where a random body part is removed or altered or anything even CLOSE to a regular routine medical procedure. It’s the killing of a very young child in utero. It’s the harming of someone else’s body, not just the mother’s.
Abortions are either morally ok, or morally not ok. This decision is made by individuals who contemplate the issue based on their own moral compass and in this case the guidance of the Bible.
They are not morally okay, despite what some with a malfunctioning compass might suggest. It is not okay to elect to kill an innocent child.
I must have missed the part where Diana held passersby down with their eyelids stretched open and forced them to look at the graphic signs. I was under the impression that the students looking at a certain sign for more than a tenth of a second were doing so voluntarily.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=7883827
Per ABC News, 41% of pregnancies in NYC end in abortion. Seems to me the numerous exposures to “Sex Education” in public schools is not having the desired effect. Seems to me that “contraceptive, though readily available and often “free” is not often used. Seems to me there are a lot of sacrifices being made in human blood to “the right to choose”. In NYC per ABC news 60% of non Hispanic blacks choose death for their babies. Choices are certainly being made.
Tozer: “By and large, unjust killing is a political issue, b/c it pertains to the Stats actions.”
Say what? No. Unjust killing is a violation of human rights. That is why a civil society prohibits it. It remains a violation of human rights regardless of whether the state says it’s illegal. Just b/c people try to address human rights violations in the political sphere does not make them purely political issues. Graphic images are used to change hearts and to combat the lie that abortion doesn’t take a human life. If people were arguing that no one gets hurt in sex trafficking or that porn is something other than what it was, I would hope you’d have the half of Diana’s guts to stand there with your pictures and say, “that is a LIE”. Even more so if your fellow Christians were unwittingly complacent in the face of the evil.
Roy: “I also don’t agree with the misinformation that gets spread around regarding abortions (i.e. using images of illegal abortions to protest legal abortions, et cetera.)”
In what way does an illegal abortion look different from a legal one? I assume you mean the age of the fetus. Most images of aborted fetuses show a range of ages from first trimester through late term (and that is appropriate b/c many perfectly legal late term abortion take place in this country). To my admittedly untrained eye, the pictures do look like fetal images of the same gestational age, but since you seem to know more about it, I would like to see your accurate pictures of aborted fetuses.
Richard: “Would her heart break if she saw a graphic video of any other procedure? Surgeries are gross, no matter what is being removed”…”
Yeah they’re gross. Not heartbreaking.
“Also, if it were me. When the university said, stop doing this or there will be consequences. I might have stopped until I was done with them and then go about attempting to traumatize people on my own time with no one around to stop me.”
Well you are a coward if you would stop speaking up to save what you believe to be human lives b/c someone told you to stop. If you find these pictures traumatizing that says a lot. I’ve never been traumatized by a picture of a tumor or a gross surgery. It’s the human element that makes it traumatizing and heartbreaking.
Read Biola’s response.
http://now.biola.edu/news/article/2013/jun/05/biola-university-response-recent-youtube-video-stu/
The university acts like it is running a kindergarten. THESE ARE ADULTS, Biola! The students on your campus are old enough to go to war and die for our country but they’re not mature enough to see photos of abortion? Gimmeafrigginbreak.
Tozer…you’re a Christian huh? Funny you’re arguing the same point as Little Jeremiah whose big slam was “there is no god”. Strange bedfellows, amirite?
Graphic signs work. Thats why abortionists don’t want them shown. Graphic signs made me pro-life.
Biola’s statement is pathetic. Yes, pictures of abortion are graphic and some people might be upset, but that is the point! These are college students we are talking about, not 3rd graders. Graphic pictures and videos are shown in public at the March for Life in DC where hundreds of thousands of people will see them. It shows the TRUTH about abortion. Trying to hide the TRUTH so no one will be offended is ludicrous when you are talking about a college campus. This isn’t an elementary school where the kids are too young to handle it. It is time for these college “kids” to grow up and know the truth! By hiding it and denying it, the university is just perpetuating the myth that abortion isn’t a horrible act, and that is aiding the pro-abortion side. Biota, YOU are supporting the abortionists by hiding truth and you are not educating your adult students about the real world and how awful abortion is.
Jill: Your typing fingers would carry greater influence if you actually remembered that there are two sides to every story. In my brief look at this university, they appear to be staunch pro-life advocates, both in what the say and in what they do (look at their track record, and who they invite to speak and teach there.) There have one student with an odd experience (a single case should raise any B.S. alarms), and yet you revert to some outlandish prejudging. Easy targets and lazy journalism equals regrettable, harmful aspersions. Come on, you are better than that. Start by listening afresh to that still, small voice, and then do your research.
The above is a different Truth Seeker than our regular commenter truthseeker, BTW.
From Biola’s home page, under their “Values”,
“Through a rigorous, Christ-centered and Spirit-led education we enable our students to grapple with and engage in the spiritual, intellectual, ethical and cultural issues of our time, their implications and application to everyday.”
Threatening students for displays of cultural issues of our time doesn’t encourage them to grapple with nor engage in any issues.
My Response sent 6/6/13 to the University:
Dear Dr. Barry Corey,
After visiting this page and watching the video I have to say that this young woman, Diane Jimenez, exemplified Christ in her courageous stand for innocent life, in spite of the high cost to herself. I was appalled by the actions of your staff, by the abuse of authority, and by Dr. Elliot’s retaliation. It truly made me sick!
When a Christian University does not represent Christ, but instead operates just as the world does, it must publicly repent for both, its poor behavior and its poor decision. Christian educators cease to educate when they go against the teachings of scripture. As the leader of this institution, Dr. Corey, the buck stops with you. You must make this right. If you choose not to, I pray that the Lord will rectify this wrong. The message you have currently posted only reinforces your incorrect stance and serves to protect you and your staff. Will you have the courage to stand up for what is right and correct this injustice?
I would strongly recommend that this decision of blatant retaliation, against Ms. Diane Jimenez, be reversed and the University’s position and policy be revised to be more Christ like. A public apology, a letter sent out to all students and a message on your homepage stating the error in the way that this situation was handled, would be a good place to start. The sanctity of innocent life is worth protecting, otherwise Christ’s death was for naught.
What if Christ had been afraid to take a stand against the religious hypocrisy and abuse in His day? What if Paul lost courage after the beatings he received for taking a stand? We would not be having this discussion today. There would not be a Christian nation, known as the United States of America. Christ warns us that we must not lose our saltiness, otherwise we are worth nothing.
Matthew 5:13-16
“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Freedom of speech is important, especially on the university campus and especially when it comes to the murder of millions upon millions of innocent children. The stifling of speech, ideas and healthy discussion, because it is not popular in our society or causes us to feel squeamish, completely contradicts the message of your speech (as seen in the video). Remember, you encouraged your students to have courage for their convictions. You encouraged your students to take a stand. These images are not condoning violence. They are not pornographic. They are a picture of a reality that many of us will never see, but must be aware of. We, as believers, must confront this evil head on.
The gruesome nature of these abortion images is shocking, no doubt. In the same way, the gruesome images of innocent lambs being slaughtered for the atonement of the Israelites sins, was shocking. In the most powerful and graphic image in all of the Bible, Jesus was beaten beyond human recognition. Jesus was killed in the most cruel and torturous method known to exist. Should this graphic image be censored too?
She should have listened to the school. They warned her multiple times and yet she defied them twice. She should have been expelled. It’s funny how religious organizations get so angry that they cannot fire single women who get pregnant, or LGBT employees, and demand the right to choose what is and isn’t acceptable. Yet when a private college deems this woman’s “gore show” inappropriate, they try to hide under protection of the law. A disgrace.
Diana, you made this old, feeble man very happy today! Your story reminds me about one of Jesus; greatest teaching stories that we now call The Good Samaritan. Like this story: the beaten bloody victim was not pleasant to look at; nor even care about let alone looked after. And the story is filled with righteous and priestly pass-byers, just like you … so please don’t be too disappointed … our Savior even had those who geared Him as He died on His CROSS. ” … wait, perhaps God will save Him!” You don’t have to adopt kids nor feed-starving-children first. Mother Teresa (whose whole life was dedicated to relieving poverty) said that abortion was the greatest poverty …. poverty of spirit … poverty of hope … poverty of faith in goodness … poverty of LOVE.
If this college wants to know where it stands, it should just look at the people it has defending them.
I went to and graduated for BIOLA. I have to say, the comments on this site are outrageous. Please step down from your high horses and off your holier then thou life’s. BIOLA is one of the leading Christian institutes in the world. They gave Diana an opportunity to speak and show her support of pro-life…. Which is apparent by them allowing to have her bring a speaker and have a booth outside of chapel in a very conservative privet institute. She was the one that went against their request not to show images. She was warned more then once not to show the images in public on privet property. Diana is at fault for going against the request of school. She was told what her consequence would be and continued to disobey… She should be punished just as everyone at BIOLA who doesn’t follow the roles…. BIOLA does teach a pro-life stance in many classes and we are educated in a scholarly fashion on the topic of abortion. Diana has a great heart to bring awareness to a topic that is very real! But, she crossed the line. That is all that BIOLA is saying. She took her actions to far. BIOLA was not trying to hide her view from the world. Just her images that she forcing on the individuals on campus who might not want to see them. They have a right not to view them as well and she obstructed that right with having signs in the middle of campus.
@Student… Hitler asked German citizen to turn in their Jewish neighbors too. Most obeyed him. Daniel in the Bible, was told he could no longer pray to the God of Israel. It was now against the law. He obeyed God and not man. I’d suggest you rethink your stand. The Lord tells us ‘Faith without works is DEAD”. Thank God for the stand that this Godly young woman took.
@Patrick… I am not arguing with her stance. I am pro life. I am arguing that she was warned of the consequence of her actions. BIOLA is a place were less then 1% of the student population might be pro choice. There is no one arguing against her pro life stance just the actions she took to display her stance. Read the article I posted above and you will see what I mean. BIOLA agrees with her stance and close to 100% of BIOLA’s staff and students do as well… So the questions her is why does she need to show graphic images to people that are already pro-life?
You know, a lot of people are in the wrong. I totally agree that threatening a student for taking a bold and courageous stance for human life is wrong, but I also think that the way this student went about advertising abortion was also not the wisest idea. I know what abortion does and how absolutely horrid it is, and when I saw the pictures, it made me think that someone was being a bit rash and encouraging knee-jerk reactions (good and bad, but mostly bad) instead of encouraging good conversation. She could have put up abortion statistics and that would have been just as sombering without being revolting and would have encouraged sincere conversations instead of knee-jerk reactions.
Statistics communicate something different, and those can be manipulated. The images are very clear, speaking for themselves. If you look away, if you disprove, you reveal yourself in how you are speaking of Christ, who came and went, as pure as the little baby in the womb.
Maybe Jill Stanek can help her out with some nursing references. Some nurses are meant for something… more. What’s sad is how many Christian Leaders who are on the ‘broad path’, so much power they hold, and, oh, how they use it so brutally against Jesus on the cross.
It is infuriating seeing a woman manhandled by a security guard three times her size and weight.
@Student… One of my female fb friends made an interesting observation, which I agree with….
“I am wondering how much of the difference in response is an expression of the masculine/feminine divide. I notice women are siding with university, and men with the woman. I think the imagery would probably affect men more in changing their minds. The Gosnell trial with all its gore did change one man’s mind. Women do not seem to respond so much to the visual in general”.
“She should have listened to the school. They warned her multiple times and yet she defied them twice. She should have been expelled. It’s funny how religious organizations get so angry that they cannot fire single women who get pregnant, or LGBT employees, and demand the right to choose what is and isn’t acceptable. Yet when a private college deems this woman’s “gore show” inappropriate, they try to hide under protection of the law. A disgrace.”
I’m pretty sure that religious employees CAN fire unmarried people for being pregnant, if they’re a private company.
They had the right to decide what type of displays are allowed on their property, they’re a private university. They also have the right to choose to expel her or otherwise discipline her for not following their rules on campus.
So… A girl gets in trouble for disobeying her campus administrators and it’s national news? Uh huh… What if the topic were offering vegetarian options in the cafeteria and she wanted to show pictures of how animals are slaughtered. Campus says no. Is this still national news?
I’m not entirely sure why everyone is so upset. She was asked not to put the signs up in a public arena– she did– she was disciplined. End of story. Why does it even matter WHAT she was supporting? Biola holds the same stance, but they have to deal with the consequences when 600 other students come to the student services departments with complaints about the images they walked by on the way to class… Why is her free speech more important that the right of other students who pay the same $40,000 a year in tuition to walk to class without that?
@Jack, while I’m sure that’s true. As citizens of this great country and as believers, there comes a time when we must take a stand for what we believe in, in spite of the high cost. The university would not allow her to show the images. So after exhausting the other channels available to her, she took a stand and showed them. The university was wrong and didn’t handle this well. The Founding Fathers of this country would be proud of Diana. How many here would have the same boldness for Christ and for the unborn, regardless of the personal cost?
@Aj, what would you have done if you were in her shoes? Somehow, I don’t think you would have pushed the issue as far. When over 56,000,000 innocent lives are murdered in the greatest country on the planet, taking a radical approach is needed to wake up this country. Especially when evangelicals are the ones doing a lot of the murdering, as they quietly visit an abortion clinic to hide the evidence of their ‘mistake’. Jesus’ murder shocked a world then and now, by the gruesomeness of His death. Funny how the church has ‘cleaned’ up the image of Christ in many cases, removing the blood and scars. Jesus was beaten, according to the prophet Isaiah until he was no longer recognized as human. The church has done a good job of hiding that gruesome image too.
Patrick, I didn’t say that I thought she was wrong or the university right. I do think they have the right to decide what displays to allow on their property and what discipline to give students who break rules. I have no idea what the Founding Fathers would think.
@patrick
You’re right. I wouldn’t have pushed the issue. I was warned and I would have taken my posters inside as I was asked or to another location that would allow me to peacefully share my message.
Unfortunately, churches like Westboro Baptist have made a nice negative name for Christians just as ones who don’t submit to earthly authority.
No, I don’t believe Christians should roll over and let people walk on us, but I do think we should choose our battles and battle grounds.
I simply feel she could have made her point more clearly by respecting the authority that she is now painting out to be animals.
@Jack, our Founding Fathers took a life changing stand against the British, even though it was illegal. Thank God they did! Rules are there to guide and must be challenged when they violate our fundamental beliefs. Of course the University has a right to set rules and standards, but the students have every right to peacefully challenge that authority when they feel it is wrong. Diana exhausted her rule abiding efforts first. The university handled this poorly. Protesting is a protected right when you do not agree with the authorities. There comes a time in all of our lives when we have to take a stand. Lukewarm is not good enough.
No, protesting is a protected right in public. There’s no constitutional protection to use private property to protest against the wishes of the owners of the property.
I personally am of the opinion that the graphic photos are a bad way to go, if she disagrees with me she certainly has the right to do so, doesn’t mean she won’t face any consequences.
Patrick… stop making this a holier then thou argument… No one is arguing that abortion is a good thing…. No one from the university said “you can not talk about abortion here.” Did you hear that said in the video? or in any of the stories?… No. They offered her a means and a solutions to express her passion, that did not violate innocent of the individuals who had these images forces on them… The argument is, was she in the right for showing gruesome images to unsuspecting students? And, is BIOLA right for taking action after warning her multiple times… Please stop trying to make the argument against the institution which make them seem to be pro choice. They are openly pro life and that is not the argument.
@Student, I think you need to look in the mirror! This is not a ‘holier than thou argument’ as you say. Did you kind of miss the point? The university has abused their power, as they are in a position of power.
“…Meanwhile, Nurse Ratcheds exist in more than movies. Diana’s dean of nursing decided to take matters into her own hands and mete her own consequence. On May 22, Dr. Susan Elliott wrote a letter to all nursing faculty barring them from writing a letter of employment reference for Diana…”
The title of this article accurately depicts what has occurred here “Christian University retaliates against pro-life student for showing graphic reality of abortion“
They didn’t retaliate against her for “showing the graphic reality of abortion”. They retaliated against her for not showing the graphic reality of abortion appropriately (in their idea) and breaking the rules.
Is there no one here that has a backbone? Followers are not leaders. Followers don’t stand up for what they believe in. Leaders take chances and blaze new trails. Diana will clearly be a leader. She has what it takes. Good luck to those of you who disagree.
Meh, people don’t have to exactly agree with you specifically think is correct to “stand up for what they believe”. That’s really one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
The fact that the university has the legal right to do this doesn’t mean we can’t criticize its decision. Reality has no problem criticizing Biola for how it teaches evolution. Nobody else has a problem criticizing the Westboro Baptist Church for protesting outside funerals (even though it’s a constitutionally protected right). Regarding the contention that nearly 100% of the students are already pro-life (assuming it’s true for the sake of the argument), I think this passage is relevant:
(from the first page of The Case for Life by Scott Klusendorf). Or as Gregg Cunningham always says, most people who say they oppose abortion do just enough to salve the conscience but not enough to stop the killing. That’s a staggering truth.
“No, protesting is a protected right in public. There’s no constitutional protection to use private property to protest against the wishes of the owners of the property.
I personally am of the opinion that the graphic photos are a bad way to go, if she disagrees with me she certainly has the right to do so, doesn’t mean she won’t face any consequences.”
@Jack, are you kidding me? Of course you have the right to stand up against any authority, whether public or private. Sure there may be consequences for your actions. But you do have that right.
“@patrick
You’re right. I wouldn’t have pushed the issue. I was warned and I would have taken my posters inside as I was asked or to another location that would allow me to peacefully share my message.
Unfortunately, churches like Westboro Baptist have made a nice negative name for Christians just as ones who don’t submit to earthly authority.
No, I don’t believe Christians should roll over and let people walk on us, but I do think we should choose our battles and battle grounds.
I simply feel she could have made her point more clearly by respecting the authority that she is now painting out to be animals.”
@Aj, I didn’t get the impression she was ‘painting them out to be animals’. She was exercising her right to protest. She handled this well. If she had shown the images first, without going through all of the proper channels, I would agree she did not handle this right.
I have owned and operated a company with nearly 50 employees, I’ve served my community as an elected official and I served as the chairman of a trade group, and I can tell you from my experience, the university did retaliate against Diana. They wanted make an example of her for taking this stand. This is done to ‘control’ the organization and it has a chilling effect on anyone else who was considering doing anything similar. The university may very well have opened themselves up to future legal action.
The proper way of handling this, would have been for the head of the university to bring all of the students in together and open up the subject to further discussion and dialog, rather than try and destroy this young woman’s future. A university is suppose to be a place of testing ideas and pushing the boundaries.
The anti-Christ will be a leader too. I pray we all have the discernment not to follow his example blindly either.
Your a follower of Christ aren’t you Patrick? Does that make you not a leader? Does being a Christian not make you stand up for what you believe in. It is hard to follow your argument. People can be Christian and be offended by the images of abortion and genocides. That does not mean they don’t fight against these horrible things. It just means they might be too gruesome for some people to handle. Which is why BIOLA acted the way they did. It was not to shut her up but to bring about the conversation in a different way… Do you listen to the man yelling in your face? or your friend taking you a side and opening up a conversation that is two sided and open?… It isn’t about the message it is about the way the message was forced on people.
@Student, We should all be so offended that abortion is never performed again! That’s how offended I would like us all to be. How offended are you of the images of our Savior who was beaten beyond human recognition? I hope greatly.
Don’t kid yourself into thinking that Biola handled this the way that they did to protect the students from the ‘gruesomeness’ of the images. This is about making an example of a rule breaker. This is about control. Someone said this earlier, these are the worst type of Christians. If the university wanted to slap her on the wrist for breaking their rules, that’s one thing. Unfortunately, that’s not what they did. The punishment should always be proportionate to the crime. Trying to destroy a young person’s future over this, is another matter all together. The intent of the University is now clear and for all to see. Not very Christ like.
I http://now.biola.edu/news/article/2013/jun/05/biola-university-response-recent-youtube-video-stu/ and phoned the school twice.
Here is a link to Biola’s response to the You Tube clip:
http://now.biola.edu/news/article/2013/jun/05/biola-university-response-recent-youtube-video-stu/
I think it is important to read what they have to say. In addition, I want to be clear that I think the discipline meted out does not at all match the so-called offense.
I hope they will rescind the disciplinary actions they plan to take against her. I believe Biola is Pro -Life and that they have a right to have a policy. But they really ought to extend grace especially since they are on the same side of the issue.
I wrote emails to all the addresses listed and made two phone calls to Biola. I was treated very respectfully.
Here is a link to Biola’s response to the You Tube clip:
http://now.biola.edu/news/article/2013/jun/05/biola-university-response-recent-youtube-video-stu/
I think it is important to read what they have to say. In addition, I want to be clear that I think the discipline meted out does not at all match the so-called offense.
I hope they will rescind the disciplinary actions they plan to take against her. I believe Biola is Pro -Life and that they have a right to have a policy. But they really ought to extend grace to this student especially since they are on the same side of the issue, though they do not agree on how to express their views.
@Barbara, I agree with your last statement. My opinion, is that the university’s posting is a CYA statement solely for the purpose of damage control. Nothing more. Nothing less. Instead of taking a leadership role and turning this into a teachable moment (for all), they have tried to destroy the messenger. The the absolutely worst thing to do in public relations.
This from the university’s posting: “….The public displaying of very graphic, disturbing images — for whatever purpose, even one so in line with Biola’s heart — is not an appropriate venue of student expression on our campus….”
According to their own text, this image would be banned as it’s as graphic as you can get… https://www.dropbox.com/s/78powc2w799vgtd/Crucifixion-of-Jesus.jpg
Student…so what if most of Biola students are pro-life? MOST of the people I know are pro-life too but are they so much as lifting a FINGER to help end it? NO.
Are they at the clinic offering help to the women going in or hope and healing to the women coming out? No. Are they supporting their local CPC? No. Do they talk about abortion in their workplace and try to educate those around them about this horror? No. Some “pro-life” people I know will even vote for pro-abortion politicians!!! So much for being pro-life. WHO CARES if you’re pro-life when you don’t put any actions to your convictions?
And btw, didn’t Biola teach you how to spell? It’s PRIVATE not privet. A privet is a bush if I understand correctly. Spelling errors in capital just irritate the tar out of me…especially when the person making the error is wrong in his/her whole argument as well.
From what I have read about this young woman, Diana. She wanted them to SEE abortion. She believed that until some people really SAW what abortion was, they wouldn’t really understand.
She herself said that until she SAW what abortion was, she wasn’t as prolife as she now is. She was concerned for other women, that she had had conversations with, at that School about abortion. She thought that if they actually SAW abortion for what it truly is that they too would then understand better.
It seems to me that she is correct, that even the administrators need to SEE what it is so that they too can understand her position. Far too many people say one thing and then do another. Open your eyes, really SEE abortion for what it is. She was only trying to educate people on the truth, nothing wrong with that, not ever!
“stop making this a holier then thou argument… No one is arguing that abortion is a good thing…. No one from the university said “you can not talk about abortion here”
They just don’t want any of the “pro-life” adults on campus to feel uncomfortable when talking about the legal slaughter of millions of children. I mean, come on. Who wants to think about “ickiness” when we can pat ourselves on the back for being intellectually pro-life.
I think you are quite right Sydney M. A whole lot of ‘pro-life’ people don’t do the things you outline. There are probably a myriad of reasons why for most of them. But I think you’ll find that a lot of ‘pro-life’ folk won’t vote for ‘truly pro-life’ politicians because those politicians invariably have a swag of accompanying policies that those folk don’t like. And it is only a small hard-core element who decide their vote on a singular policy.
I don’t believe that the school abused their power. I don’t believe that the school acted in the most Christ-centered way, and I do wish that they had allowed the display on campus, but I also have to say that this young woman knew the consequences of her actions. It is only bravery and courage if she is willing to accept the consequences. I am not saying that she has to do so lying down, but there is a difference between bringing light to the situation and slandering the school.
I agree with those who have commented that the school is private property with the right to approve or reject any particular display. Anyone who has gone to high school or college- well, at all- should realize this. However, I also stand behind Diana’s right to speech. She is allowed to express herself, and sometimes that expression takes the form of imagery.
In regards to banning the instructors to write a letter of recommendation, it does seem like overstretching her authority. I have to say that I disagree with that specific point.
“When I told Dr. Elliott the punishment was inappropriate, she said I should have thought about that before. Seriously? I’m trying to save lives, and this is what she does?
Actually, I agree with Dr. Elliot. We should all consider the potential backlash for our choices. Will this likely make us less bold? As a whole, probably. BUT truly being a soldier for God means going into battle with an understanding of the risks and an acceptance that we lay down our lives for God. Even when that does not coincide with our prior plans. Trust Him to raise you up.
It seems to me that Diana is, to an extent, trusting on the provisions of the prince of this world. She would do well to remember that we are not of this world, and that our reward is not here, but with our Father.
I should clarify, I agree with Dr. Elliott that Diana should have considered the school’s reaction prior to her actions. I do not believe that Dr. Elliott’s attitude of ‘well, then you shouldn’t have done it. too little too late,’ should be mimicked either, however.
It makes me sad to see the Church of Christ turn upon itself…
However it is not Biola that turned upon its own, it is the hive-mind of the internet forum that turns Christians against their own. How dare you make a judgement against the students of Biola and call them Christians in name only. They are paying upwards of $30,000 dollars a year to deeply study the bible (every student regardless of major must obtain a bible minor).
Biola has rules and regulations that must be followed and enforced. The same regulation that would stop an atheist or mormon group from flooding the campus with flyers is the same regulation that prevented Diana from showing her posters. Shortly after Diana left there was a group of over one hundred elementary schoolers that walked by, this is not only about college students.
Please keep campaigning against abortion, but never do so out of spite towards the doctors, patients, or supporters of the issue; that will only harden hearts.
I agree with you, MaryRose, obviously minus the religious stuff. If someone wants to take a stand and take action because they feel that’s the best step to take according to their conscience, that’s what they should do. However, they can’t expect that they won’t have any consequences for it if they are going against the stated rules of the organization they are disagreeing with.
I will consider writing to the school to complain about the letter of recommendation deal; heck, I’m even considering writing to express my disappointment over their refusal to allow the pro-life signs. I will not, however, rake them over the coals for utilizing their authority to stop her from presenting unauthorized displays.
I disagree with the position being taken against Biola and it’s faculty. As stated in many public documentations, the main issues is this student’s lack of respect for authorities and willingly disobeying them. I applaud Dr. Elliot for disciplining this student for her lack of obedience. If she goes forth, endorsed by Biola, and does not act professionally or respect authority, then she harms multiple future students from getting employment. While this student faces consequences, further students will not have to suffer from Diana’s mistake and wrong actions.
As a former student at Biola, I understand that it’s difficult getting student involved. It is a bummer that only four students showed up to planned decision. This is typical for most student-events that are organized by a single individual. However, her response caused more damage then profit to the school and her cause.
In addition, personally knowing this student. She had an understanding of the policies and procedures regarding the action she wanted to take. She did not follow policies. This was not an act of Biola trying to “hide” abortion. There have been other pro-life talks and photo displays in the past five years that followed guidelines and displayed photos in classroom (this gave students the option to view the photos or not). I am disappointed that a fellow nursing student would not follow authorities; even if she disagreed with them.
The center of campus is suppose to a safe haven…where one’s personal struggles are not on display for all to see. Diana was only thinking about her own desire to share abortion photos. She did not consider the thousands of other students who would be exposed to her photos (one student confided in me that they cast even more guilt on her for a precious abortion). How can love our brothers and sisters in Christ if we are shoving guilt down their throats?
Well MaryRose and Jack…I guess those abolitionists like John Brown and his sons who were killed for being against slavery should have thought about that before they tried to free slaves! I guess those abolitionists who lost businesses and homes speaking out against the evils of slavery should have just SHUT UP and stop whining about the injustice they suffered. Cause to speak out against injustice in this world means you’re appealing to the prince of this world.
This whole mindset that Christians can never speak out and that we have to accept hardship and prejudice and just suffer through the injustice has never made sense to me. If Christians always just accepted injustice…we’d never speak out about ANYTHING!
Sure there are consequences to everything but that doesn’t mean we have to take it lying down! In Canada they threw that pro-life lady in prison with a sentence of something absurd like 10 years. Should she just shut up and not appeal to “the prince of this world”? Should she just take her 10 year sentence and feel like she is a better Christian for doing so? After all, she knew the consequences of her actions when she stood outside abortion mills.
I just don’t get this “roll over and play dead” mentality. That is just not me. If there is injustice I am going to say something! What was done to this young nursing student is unjust. Period.
Suzanne…guilt comes from the accuser of the brethren. Not from seeing an abortion photo. I’ve heard other women who had abortions say the guilt was ALREADY there. They felt the guilt whether they saw a photo of an aborted child or not.
And quite frankly, what if there was a young woman who saw the photos and CHOSE LIFE for her baby? That far outweighs making a woman feel guilty. The fact that at least one post-abortive mom saw the photos just drives home the point I was making..these are young men and women and if they are old enough to have abortions they are old enough to see them. How much kinder it is for them to see the truth of abortion BEFORE they make that dreadful choice that they can never take back.
If that post-abortive woman has confessed her sin to God He has forgiven her and cleansed her from ALL unrighteousness. No one can make her feel guilty. She is clean and restored in God’s eyes. Showing the error of sin is not “shoving guilt” down the throats of our brothers and sisters. Proverbs 27:6 –it is better to hurt your friend by showing him his errors then pretend his sin is okay and everything is fine. That was a synopsis btw…
Sydney, did you actually read my post?
I don’t think the school should have disallowed the signs. I simply contend that they were within their rights to do so, that their rights are reasonable ones, and that the student in question should expose the school without seeming outraged that they chose to stop her from doing what they told her not to do. I don’t disagree with anything in particular except the way she went about exposing it and the way prolifers are reacting. If someone walked into a Planned Parenthood with graphic photos of abortion and spoke out against abortion inside the clinic, I would applaud them. I would also have the same reaction if they then got all offended that PP had them arrested.
I’m just saying that it’s courageous to talk about and display the horrors of abortion, but breaking the rules for the unborn is much less courageous if you’re then unwilling to accept the price to you for the actions.
Comparing people not being able to use one form of pro-life activism in one place on private property to people being murdered for their activism is just… gross, honestly.
Go parade graphic photos around in a mall or school or something, express yourself as you wish. You just can’t be surprised and I don’t think it’s “unjust” because someone is sanctioned for using one specific type of expression in one specific place that isn’t public and doesn’t belong to them, when there are other forms of expression available, as well as many other areas she could have used if she just had to have graphic photos. Jeez. There are ways to educate people without using those photos, she could have incorporated other methods, got people interested, and then shown them graphic images. Or she could have persevered in in holding the appropriate classroom meetings. As it stands now, she’s not going to be able to do ANY pro-life work on that campus at least, as far as I can tell. Yup, much preferable.
I have no comment on the complaints you have about what’s “expected” out of Christians.
I don’t know the case of the woman in Canada you are talking about, you’d have to link me something.
Sydney,
I think perhaps you misunderstood my reference to the “prince of this world” because I am confident you would not recommend an appeal to Satan, who holds this world. ”I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,”-John 14:30
Do I think we should not speak to what is unjust? Of course that is not the case! As I stated, the ban on references is unjust. Telling her to quit it or she can’t walk is a reasonable utilization of authority. It’s not threatening expulsion (the security guard was in fact wrong to make that threat, but the school did not follow it through, and I commend them for that in particular). I’m just still a little surprised that you do not see this.
And this is part of the reason I think graphic photos can be sometimes more detrimental than helpful, people who see them start arguing about appropriateness and don’t actually discuss abortion at all. I see the same thing when people use shock photos of injured animals from animal testing to make their animal rights cases, people start arguing over whether it’s appropriate to show them and don’t discuss whether it was okay to abuse those animals for human gain. I’ve shown people I know graphic photos of various causes including abortion, that I can’t even look at myself barely, online after already having a conversation about the issue at hand. Got a few converts that way. Shoving the photos in their face seems to shut down dialogue in a lot of cases.
xalisae,
I doubt you’ll see this all the way down here, but…I LOVE YOUR SWAG, even though I disagree with your interpretation of the data! If more people had your personality, I think blogs, etc., would be a much better place to interact.
Grace and Peace to you.
I am glad that Diana was able to stand up for her convictions, but am truly saddened that the Biola director of nursing responded in such a way. Susan Elliott should stand for whatever is true, honorable, and right (Phil. 4:8). Shame on you, Dr. Elliott.
I’m praying for resolution. I appreciate Diana’s passion to stand up for her convictions. I am pro life as well but not as vocal Diana. I do hope that someone found encouragement or hope through her materials that she presented on campus even though not under the best circumstances. As an art major at BIOLA I’m aware that I have to consider the viewer and subject matter. There are times that artists on campus have set up controversial work without permission to make a point that otherwise would not have been heard. Sometimes these kinds of things are necessary. Within the past year, BIOLA gallery hosted two shows about negotiating the aftermath of social violence… one was about abused foster children represented with dashes on the wall and some childrenlike figures locked in small wooden boxes and the other show included graphic pictures of dead iraqi soldiers and more… there was forewarning to the viewers that some of the images may be disturbing to viewers. so they were given the choice to look on or look away. I sat for awhile staring at these dead men in their graves…they were sons, fathers perhaps, brothers even… they were God’s creation.. I felt sad for them in that respect. I view the gallery as a place to think, reflect, meditate, and at times be entertained. Should not our whole campus be a place that invites Christian intellectual thought not just on beauty but also violence? And who is to say how the topic be presented as long as we Christians can be assured and express hope and grace in Jesus Christ? I remember seeing the abortion material set up by the doors at the SUB, I recognized the images of aborted fetuses and quickly turned away… I’m pro life and those images sadden me to see hope dashed to pieces. I assumed there would be pamphlets or brochures being handed out to inform or direct people to resources. However, I did not go over to the table, I just kept moving about the routine of the day. Perhaps I should have gone to the table to find out for sure why Diana and her team was there that day. I do have some reservation about how the images are presented so publicly so that even kids could see but I am concerned that this topic can be too watered down/ taken less serious with censorship of rules and regulations. Diana is a compassionate loving person and I’m confident that she was presenting this harsh reality with as much grace as possible because I don’t recall and haven’t heard any account of her shouting or shoving guilt trips onto other Christians or pregnant woman struggling with idea of abortion. I do pray that out of this mess that Diana will have gained more partnership in her cause.
I’m working out this after thought about the images shown to BIOLA/public that were of little naked bodies torn into pieces and the disregard of Diana to offer people the choice to view such images. I chose to not look also because of the shock value of those images. Once again, I’m pro life and am saddened by this traumatic issue of abortion even though I have never been through one; so I could imagine there is much more pain for those who have gone through with that to see such images. The trauma I have experienced in life is sexual abuse (molestation) and my emotions really flare when I see graphic references even in fictitious shows. I can’t imagine myself willingly engaging for example with Social Justice Ministry on campus if they were to follow Diana’s lead to present harsh truth of human trafficking by posting pictures of children being raped and beaten by pedophiles/ predators. Some people are graced with strength and choose to look at and be in those darkest environments to rescue the helpless. Then there are some who would freeze in shock at seeing something so traumatic who still have the grace to be involved in seeking justice for issues such as pro life (or in my example ending human trafficking) but don’t have to see the all the ugliness to be provoked to advocate justice.
As for the taking away of Diana’s recommendations for her future career… I’m praying for grace for her.
As a Biola alum I know first hand that Biola has done little in the history of the school to compromise their strong biblical foundation. Their mission has and continues to be to “equip men and women in mind and character to impact the world for Christ”. I am pro-life and am challenged by the burden that this student has to shed more light on the horrors of abortion. I would however caution readers to note that in this article there weren’t any direct quotes from Biola faculty or staff members (except public safety officer in the video). The story is told only through the eyes of the student. I wonder if this has much more to do with policies of campus. This student chose not to post her visuals as she had been instructed to do so by campus authorities. I’m saddened to think that others may read this and think that Biola has a ‘soft’ stance on abortion. I do not think that they do and pray that they never will. Praying that the Lord works in this situation and that Biola speaks out firmly against abortion and that they would also care well for this student. May He be glorified somehow in this.
This University is afraid of the 1500 angry students that will take their money to another place that will not be so in their face. The almighty dollar wins.
This.
Who wants to think about “ickiness” when we can pat ourselves on the back for being intellectually pro-life.
And this.
Biola’s response contains these sentences:
Student Development communicated clearly with the student on the matter, explaining that the photos were not allowed because they would be disruptive to campus activity.
The only folks being disruptive were Biola staff.
The public displaying of very graphic, disturbing images — for whatever purpose, even one so in line with Biola’s heart — is not an appropriate venue of student expression on our campus.
It is what the student wanted to express so IT WAS an appropriate venue for the student. The wording should be changed to “is not an appropriate venue because these photos disturb a few arrogant, bullying Biola University administration and staff adults.”
Diana has more spine than all of the adults in the video put together. She is the one with the courage and the conviction. The rest of the people in the video are all talk, no action.
The story is told only through the eyes of the student.
Baloney. I can see and hear and read what the other side of the story is and make my opinions based on that. In this case, the student has become the teacher.
Jack, how is my analogy “gross”? It’s an appropriate analogy. John Brown understood that he was breaking laws by his vigilanteism. According to you he should have expected to be killed and no one should have been upset by it. He took the risks, right?
Using photos changes hearts and minds. I’ve seen it whether you care to agree or not…it works! If you want to discuss abortion and not the appropriateness of using graphic photos THEN DISCUSS ABORTION. People such as yourself are the ones who are deflecting attention away from abortion by wagging your fingers at those of us who use graphic images. If you don’t like the images…then you are entitled to your opinion but don’t harp about it. Just be silent and let people TALK ABOUT ABORTION. You’re the ones who change the topic by chiding other pro-lifers for using these signs.
Btw, if you are on the same side as an abortionist…you’re on the wrong side! Abortionists hate when we use the graphic signs. Wonder why…
My big problem with Biola isn’t that they didn’t want her showing the images. Though I disagree with them and think that is a lame position for a Christian university it is within their rights. But to then go after this girl and try to ruin her CAREER? She wasn’t standing up for assisted suicide. She was standing up for life! We need MORE nurses like her but they are hellbent on making sure there are less nurses like her.
Responding to Tozer’s post (June 5)
First, few articles are anything but one-sided. That does not make them “biased “journalism”’
Second, the First Amendment is not suspended on private property, especially if any Biola students use tax dollars (grants, loans). If Biola uses the same criteria to approve/deny permits regardless of the point of view, Biola is legally OK. But, that does not make their decision RIGHT!
Third, you wrote: “the sheer arrogance & stupidity of people in this thread to call in peoples Christianity because they aren’t as myopic on an issue as they is beyond silly”. Again, you are judgmental. And you need to improve your reading skills. No one is criticizing Biola personnel because of Biola’s POV on abortion. They are criticizing Biola personnel for their blatant hypocrisy.
The president of Biola called for students to stand up for their convictions. A professor lobbied on behalf of “conscience protections”. For Biola to retaliate against Diana is clearly hypocritical. Even YOU should be able to recognize that. Jesus was clearly impatient with hypocrisy. Read Matt 23.
Fourth, you wrote: “I … don’t believe it is necessary to show posters in the center in the center of campus…” Extreme situations often demand extreme actions. It was the visceral images of Buddhist monks immolating themselves that helped turn American attitudes against the Vietnam War. It was pictures of blacks who had been lynched or being attacked by police dogs that helped change American attitudes about racism and segregation.
In response to other posts: I agree that we do not need pictures of victims of rape or the sex trade. Those are very different situations! No one is arguing that these evils are acceptable or tolerable. But, many people do argue that abortion is acceptable, just like people argued that racism and anti-Semitism is acceptable. Sometimes, it takes the visceral images to get people to see how horrible and misguided their POV is!
Lastly, you wrote: “Diana, if you want to be “radical” or whatever you think you are, then live with the consequences.” Is that an example of YOUR Christian compassion? You would probable say the same thing to abolitionists and Dietrich Bonheoffer (pastor executed by Nazis for speaking out against Hitler).
Tozer,
If you really respected my swag, you’d recognize that the articles to which I linked both presented valid facts and were not simply one person’s interpretation of data.
1.) YOUTH are becoming more and more Pro-Life.
2.) Youth who say that Roe Vs. Wade should be upheld don’t know what Roe Vs. Wade is in the first place, and would probably answer differently if they were more informed on the matter.
Every day more and more Pro-Lifers with a similar personality to mine join our fight, because we are gaining momentum in the youth culture.
Stick around, you might enjoy the ride.
To those saying the school has a right to enforce the consequences and so she shouldn’t be saying anything or complaining you missed the point. yes the school has a right to enforce their consequences but she has a right to make them public and now the school has to deal with any consequent backlash
and now I guess we need to add graphic images to the things pro-lifers can talk about because we disagree on them. see how limited our discussions become when we have to only talk about things everyone agrees on. first it was only things that allegedly don’relate to abortion. now it’s things relating to abortion that we don’t agree on. and not only are we supposed to limit our discussion about them were supposed to capitulate to the other side and not use the graphic images because some people think we shouldn’t. nonsense that’s what the debate is for.
After reviewing more of these posts, let me add this thought.
What we have here is a story of a young woman of African descent. There was a policy in place. She opposed the policy and “broke the rules”. And some of you “Christians”, such as Jack and Mary Rose, are claiming that she should be willing to accept the consequences of her disobediance.
Hmmm, I can not believe you are so racist! You believe she deserved to be arrested??? For refusing to give up her seat on the bus to a white man? You see, I am not talking about Diana Jiminez. I am talking about Rosa Parks. 55 years ago, she defied the “authorities”, she “broke the rules”, and was arrested. Well, if Diana was wrong, then, so was Rosa Parks!
After reading these comments about Diana, I began to wonder about the wide range of responses that are verbalized. Like photos, words too evoke responses, some appropriate and others not so. But graphic images or words even if shunned) pale next to the reality of an abortion. Sometimes I wish we could smell the gore …. it would make me STOP (I think!), at least for a while. … breathe , just breathe … now resume your existence and pretend that I do not hurt ,,, BIG TIME …. AREN’T KIDS BEING KILLED? AREN’T WE ALLOWING it? Would smelling make people ‘see’?
Raymond,
Your post made me lol. About a couple of things
THIS…….
Jack is not a Christian.
Generalize much?
One more thought… as we approach Independence Day, those of you who support Biola, DO NOT CELEBRATE JULY 4!! If you think displaying IMAGES of violence is inappropriate, then, it is safe to assume that you believe VIOLENCE itself is inappropriate. Well, our revolution was a series of acts of violence. The Patriots, our heros, killed and were killed. You mock and dishonor those who died for “breaking the rules”.
She didn’t go to jail. And I’m not saying she was wrong; I’m saying she’s not bearing it well. The apostles rejoiced over the opportunity to suffer for Our Lord. Will we?
“and now I guess we need to add graphic images to the things pro-lifers can talk about because we disagree on them. see how limited our discussions become when we have to only talk about things everyone agrees on. first it was only things that allegedly don’relate to abortion. now it’s things relating to abortion that we don’t agree on. and not only are we supposed to limit our discussion about them were supposed to capitulate to the other side and not use the graphic images because some people think we shouldn’t. nonsense that’s what the debate is for.”
You’ll notice I didn’t say graphic images should be banned. At all. My statements were “I” statements, saying this is why *I* don’t like them, this is how *I* use them if *I* do, and this is how *I* think they are more effective. I, I, I. You do as you please.
Carla. I really do not know any one on this forum. I will not assume anything. Yes, a few have stated that they believe God does not exist. (At least one is pro-life. Many pro-lifers are atheists or agnostics, and/or feminists.) And some of those who claim to be “Christian”, may in fact not be Christian. I am very hesitant to make that call. That is why I used quotation marks.
I sent an email to the president through his (secretary? buffer? pseudonyn?) named Michelle Hughes, but I doubt if it will have an effect. There are many such entities which I call CINO, Christian in name only.
Mary Rose: to quote the Bible that the “apostles rejoiced at the opportunity to suffer for the Lord” is a cheap stunt. Your argument suggests that suffering or paying a price is no big deal and that this is the way God wants it. Just because the Bible REPORTS something does not mean it SUPPORTS it. Yes, we are told that we may pay a price for our beliefs. That does not mean paying that price is itself good or what God wants. The Bible never suggests that suffering itself is good. It may be necessary for a greater good, but, never good itself. If you believe so, then, why don’t you self-flagellate yourself?? (Some people actually do just that!) Shouldn’t you rejoice in the suffering?
” Would smelling make people ‘see’?”
I really hate answering my own question, It reminded me of those who geared Christ as He died. I can just here the dinner-table conversation: SHE: “How was your day, dear?’ HE: “Nothing much, except that preacher fella that yesterday we all yelled ‘Crucify him!’ Well, he died today and I even got to spit at him. Not much, really.”
Raymond,
“Shouldn’t you rejoice in the suffering?”
Do you mean like when St Paul says in Col 1:24
“Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.”
Raymond,
Maybe give yourself some time to become familiar with who believes what and then comment?
You are throwing “Christian” and “racist” around to folks you don’t even know.
Maybe you could start with asking some questions?
Just a thought.
Oh wow, Carla, I didn’t even see his 2013/06/07 at 12:27 pm post… I certainly will go on record to say I believe the University is in the wrong on this, but that is simply a shocking post… Jack is racist and would relegate Rosa Parks to the back of the bus because he thinks this woman did not conduct herself properly in this situation? Unbelievable…
Yup I’m racist and claim to be a Christian, and MaryRose is racist and isn’t a real Christian. Lol.
I wasn’t there to know all the conversations that occurred before this event transpired. I have questions that will not be answered. Because this issue is so controversial and the handling of it has potential hurt for all, did administration meet with her to discuss how her commitment to pro-life and position could be expressed? Was there no other alternative to help her with her heart’s desire hen told “no” but to evoke rules, regulations and police action? Where were the older, mature female faculty’s involvement by coming along side her to give her wisdom? Why could’t administration have allowed her a voice for one single hour? What harm could have occurred? Where was common sense? Isn’t compassion, grace and mercy above the law? Has Biola University decided to rule by precept and omit Grace? Are there never any exceptions to the rules? As a result of poor handling, much harm has been done. It is sad to think that a student who was convicted of what abortion looks like and knew of other students who chose that procedure could not work with the very university to arrive at a suitable solution whose mission statement says ” Equipping men and women in mind and character to impact the world for the LORD Jesus Christ.” Apparently you will get equipped and impact the world, but are banned from impacting your own campus, even for an hour.
well silly me…Diana should be jumping up and down giddy with glee because she has studied her butt off for years and years and now her future career has been derailed.
God can use terrible things for our good. I was very unhappy in my job and spending increasing amounts of time away from home as more and more responsibility was heaped on me. I felt that God did not give me a child for me to allow others to raise him and I prayed about it. My husband felt we couldn’t afford for me to stay home. Then I walked into my job one day and was told I and some others were being let go. I was shocked but in the end it was a blessing! I got to stay home and be a MOM to my boys and my husband and I found that by living very simply we could afford to do this.
So I feel the Lord answered my prayer but through an unpleasant circumstance.
That being said, I was not happy when I was going through that valley and it was a very scary time.
So yes, God will use ALL things for good for those that are His children…but does that mean Diana has no right to be upset at the unfair treatment from Biola? That she has no right to publicize Biola’s hypocrisy and vindictiveness?
It makes you think twice about taking a stand knowing that if bad things happen to you because of your stand…like bricks being thrown through the front window of your home (happened to a pro-life leader who had young children in his home) fellow pro-lifers and Christians to boot will not feel sorry for you or sympathize in any way. And if you express any anger or distress over the wicked actions of those opposed to your pro-life efforts you will be sanctimoniously reprimanded that maybe you should bear your cross a little better. humph.
It is amusing to see, over and over, how institutions of higher education of all flavors trample on freedom of speech. I recommend reading the book, “Free Speech for Me but Not for Thee” to see both left and right, Christian, Jewish, and atheist trampling on the idea.
Wow, Sydney, I’m not saying she’s a bad person. I’m not attacking her. I’m just defending the school *a little bit* and saying that sometimes, we make calculated choices which we know have risks. We make choices to speak out against those who are doing harm because we know that it must be done, even if it means that we aren’t going to get the happy life plan that we want.
And the school-not one administrator, who I have repeatedly stated was out of line, but the actual institution-made a very valid choice. Do I *agree* that they should deny her request to hold signs of aborted children? No. Will I be encouraging my children to attend this school? Highly unlikely. But there is nothing unjust about the fact that the school gave her a yes or a no and then stood behind it. There is injustice in the treatment of the slaughtered infants, absolutely. And if those within the school, professors and administrators alike, were more courageous, then they would have encouraged, and not denied, such a pro-life display.
HOWEVER, the actual decision to say, “No, we’ve told you to stop, and now if it continues we will not allow you to attend commencement” is a reasonable measure of authority.
I just question the … maturity, and God’s work within the student, based on her behavior and her reaction. It is one thing to make public that which occurred and to ask the pro-life community for support. It is another to gossip about the school and the individuals and to fling around “he said she said”s. And I feel like that’s what comes through in her statements.
I also feel like some of the reactions are wholeheartedly “How awful! What a terrible school! Everything they did is WRONG!” and I disagree. I think that they made some weak choices, and I think that they should have gone a different route. But I am not as incensed about it, and I felt like maybe a little bit of the other side (not a rousing recommendation for the school, just a little bit of questioning the situation) was warranted.
If connecting that to WAY WORSE SUFFERINGS that the apostles endured with SONG makes me sanctimonious, then I’m sorry to offend but I am not sorry to speak my mind.
FYI, I speak openly on abortion in the workplace. I have had many friends and coworkers admit to me stories about abortions because they know my heart for women and the pre-born. I also stand outside of my local abortion clinic to pray and provide counseling. I donate to various pro-life causes and I am very vocal online. Everyone I know is aware of my stance. I’m not discouraging a vocal and active pro-life generation. I am discouraging the whining and gossiping over a situation in which a young woman, who is about to enter the workplace in which no one holds your hand to guide yo,u poorly executed an event held on a campus that primarily agreed with the material presented, then poorly researched the requirements for her materials at a booth, and then seems to be surprised that when she disobeyed a clear directive, she was punished.
Ultimately, I just don’t see her as the undeniable and undefiled hero, and the school as the evil abortion-supporting devil group. I see how God and Satan are working in a number of ways, and I refuse to engage in nastiness about the injustice of the punishment. Although, as I keep saying, the ban on references was a totally unacceptable abuse of power by the administrator in question and I have already drafted an email to this effect. But no, the school isn’t just straight bad and the girl isn’t just straight good.
If that opinion makes me a sanctimonious non-Christian without compassion for those attacked, then I’m not your brand of Christian, I guess.
1. All the commenters who say that adults and college students should be able to handle the graphic images being displayed in the center of campus either don’t know or don’t care that there are children on campus frequently. There are home school programs that Biola hosts as well as the pro-family environment that is promoted.
2. Ms. Jimenez does not need a professor’s letter of recommendation to get a job in her field…or any other field for that matter. Her career has not been destroyed in any way. At this point Dr. Elliot would be lying if she were to write Ms. Jimenez letters of recommendation…unless she includes that Ms. Jimenez disrespects authority figures and doesn’t work within the rules.
3. I see commenters making it out to seem that Biola is falling away from the Word on abortion issues and Biblical truth. Their actions seem to speak volumes on where they stand. Biola is one if only a handful of Christian universities to challenge Obamacare by suing over the givernment’s policy of forcing Biola to provide abortion inducing drugs in their health plans. Biola also offers classes ( I took one) which taught how to argue for the pro-life movement and how to prove to others that life begins at conception. Biola even offered Ms. Jimenez venues and ideas to promote her cause. She just had to keep the graphic images to the indoor forum she held ( again, due to young children on campus).
I love having a mixed bag of pro lifers….with Jack and X being agnostic you pro deathers can’t play the RELIGIOUS card!! Hahaha…like a man in my group . He is agnostic so when anti lifers get in his face he just laughs and says he doesn’t believe in God OR abortion . Funny stuff.
Jack: Apologies, I was snarkier than usual this morning after being stuck in traffic for 2 hours. The mood was not good. I know you weren’t saying to ban the images. It just hit me wrong when I saw, once again, the argument that something isn’t useful to pro-life efforts b/c people will argue about it.
Mary Rose: “I’m not attacking her. I’m just defending the school *a little bit* and saying that sometimes, we make calculated choices which we know have risks.”
My position is that I wouldn’t defend the school even a little unless I believed their consequences and rules were appropriate. They certainly have the right to set the rules and to enforce them, but they only deserve a defense if you agree with one or the other or both. If you don’t agree with either then they deserve the criticism they’re receiving. No one deserves to be defended just for setting and enforcing rules. It all depends on the details. If they think their rules are good, then they should be confident enough to stand behind them in the face of criticism.
I was more making the argument that in *my* opinion, showing the images to NON-pro-lifers gets people freaking out about appropriateness rather than doing anything like discussing abortion, it wasn’t really about dissension among pro-lifers. Actually I probably wouldn’t mind debating the use graphic images with other pro-lifers, if those of us who don’t agree with their use in general weren’t accused of not actually caring about aborted babies and not really being pro-life, yada yada. It’s a pretty useless argument.
” My position is that I wouldn’t defend the school even a little unless I believed their consequences and rules were appropriate. They certainly have the right to set the rules and to enforce them, but they only deserve a defense if you agree with one or the other or both. If you don’t agree with either then they deserve the criticism they’re receiving. No one deserves to be defended just for setting and enforcing rules. It all depends on the details. If they think their rules are good, then they should be confident enough to stand behind them in the face of criticism.”
I agree with the rules not the consequences. I would have sanctioned her in a milder way if I were the administrator in charge, but honestly would probably have the same policy regarding graphic images of any sort, I just think they aren’t appropriate for open display (as in showing them in a place where people can’t “opt in” rather than being forced to see them just walking by) in an academic environment, and they don’t foster the type of debates I think appropriate or effective. I wouldn’t allow her career prospects to be (however slightly) damaged by the moratorium on recommendations.
I would have much preferred the college do more conflict resolution then take the steps they did. The situation was rather unfortunate. Though she was basically “I want to do this thing that is against the rules, on your property, and I don’t care what your policies are”, and didn’t really give them a ton of choices in the matter. Like MaryRose said, she’s not an innocent victim, and they aren’t a big bad meanie bully college like they are being painted. Two sides here, both made some mistakes in my view.
Fair enough? Or am I still somehow a fake Christian, racist, slavery supporting, not really pro-life person? Lol.
I really don’t see why she couldn’t have shown her sign on the nearest public sidewalk next to the university, though, and caught students while they were driving/walking in. Was that not acceptable? Did she try this at all?
Hutch,
A prolife woman was holding a graphic sign. A woman who was proabortion asked her, “How can you allow children to see these pictures??”
The prolifer asked her, “How can you allow children to become these pictures??”
I guess I do agree with the school’s consequences. It’s my understanding that the school’s consequences were that she was warned that she wouldn’t be walking at commencement, and an administrator wrote an email outside of the school’s actual consequences.
Beside that, I doubt that the lack of a letter of recommendation is going to greatly effect her employment. First of all, her grades, transcripts, and experience should speak for themselves. Secondly, her reaction to the situation has brought a good deal of pro-life attention her way, which, with the positive response I see, should open doors.
I am not an administrator or a student at Biola. I do not know the particulars beside what are represented by the original blog post. I simply am not willing to say that they are outright wrong without more information. I just don’t believe that everyone who agrees with me about one or other particular is by definition right. Make sense?
thoughts from a Biola grad http://michaelwaustin.blogspot.com/2013/06/biola-university-abortion-and.html
Congratulations, BIOLA. You have taken a huge step forward to follow in the footsteps of formerly Christian universities like Yale and Harvard.
Jesus said “you’ll know them by their fruit” the fruit Biola is showing is fruit NOT of Christ, but fruit of satan..
Biola has made a purely arbitrary wrong judgment that the photos are inappropriate. Jesus would consider them very appropriate. Dead babies should offend people and Christians should not be timid out of fear of offending others. Jesus referred to Himself as the Rock of Offense. Jesus was not crucified because he was such a nice guy. He was hated because what He did and taught was offensive. Jesus said if they hated me they will hate you. The people at Biola simply seek to retreat to a safe non-offensive bunker instead of confronting the world with the truth. They are even too wimpy to confront Christians with the truth. They bring shame on themselves.
They need to repent for the evil they have done.
The public displaying of very graphic, disturbing images — for whatever purpose, even one so in line with Biola’s heart — is not an appropriate venue of student expression on our campus.
I go back to the above statement by Biola and would ask them, “Says who?”
Oh yeah. Says those who are in CONTROL and POWER. Don’t dare disagree with those who are in CONTROL and POWER or we will do everything in our power to take away that which is most important to you.
Biola even offered Ms. Jimenez venues and ideas to promote her cause. She just had to keep the graphic images to the indoor forum she held ( again, due to young children on campus).
Did anyone notice that Hutch (who took prolife classes) at Biola says, “to promote HER cause.” Hutch doesn’t say “OUR cause” or “BIOLA’s cause”, he says “HER cause” because Diana is not among strong committed prolifers at Biola. Hutch took prolife classes at Biola but the slaughter of innocents has still not become his cause?? Diana should be teaching the class.
Yeah, Biola supports venues that would reach few if anyone. Biola has made a statement that did not talk about young children but rather states that public displays of graphic images are not appropriate. Biola wants the images to remain in a PRIVATE setting but now Hutch states that Diana was not allowed to show these photos because of young children on campus? I call BS. What if a child saw a young woman on campus being chewed out by male security? How would this affect a child?
At this point Dr. Elliot would be lying if she were to write Ms. Jimenez letters of recommendation…unless she includes that Ms. Jimenez disrespects authority figures and doesn’t work within the rules.
Authority figures should have to earn respect. Giving respect to someone just because they are in a position of authority is illogical and dangerous. It’s called blind trust. Remember that abortionists are authority figures in their work circles, too.
This is about POWER, CONTROL and keeping icky legal homicide PRIVATE. (Power, control and privacy — something the proaborts bank on and the reasons abortion remains legal).
Sing louder, turn your head away and threaten to take away important things to those who expose what abortion really looks like. Then sit back, insist that you are a courageous prolifer and lament on why abortion is still legal in our country.
Wake up before the graphic photos are outlawed as well.
I see Christ kneeling on the ground before Ms. Elliot and the Biola University authorities silently writing their sins in the sand. When he finishes writing and finally stands up, he will take Diana by the hand and ask her:
“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
—
“I don’t believe that the school acted in the most Christ-centered way.”
Ok, wow… it was absolutely inappropriate for Dr Elliot to actually TELL the nursing staff not to write letters of recommendation for the student who put up photos of the abortion process. Despicable course of action. What the hell is wrong with her to do that, to snatch someone’s career prospects away from them like that? Disgusting.Apart from that.. while I don’t like abortion, is showing graphic photos/posters of it around campus really the right way to go about educating people on the topic? Why couldn’t this student have stuck with the table containing info/pamphlets instead? She could’ve included mini-posters or pictures of the abortion process instead, at the very least. Or included pamphlets that showed the process. but that’s my opinion.
Pictures….when did “pictures” of the truth and of reality become illegal or offensive unless the reality itself was offensive. The truth has never harmed anyone, but lots of people want to harm those who speak or show the truth. The next thing you will discover is people telling you what size of picture you are allowed to exhibit. Pictures… she just displayed some pictures…what is the big deal?
“Pictures….when did “pictures” of the truth and of reality become illegal or offensive unless the reality itself was offensive. The truth has never harmed anyone, but lots of people want to harm those who speak or show the truth. The next thing you will discover is people telling you what size of picture you are allowed to exhibit.”
Well, child rape is reality, but I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want people parading child pornography around to raise awareness about the sex trafficking of little boys and girls. Seeing the truth *can* hurt people, which is why a lot of PRIVATE universities don’t allow graphic displays in their public areas that anyone can see.
“We can tell any student not to come here at any given time.”
Just like an elected official on a power trip. They forget they work for the voters not vice-versa.
Administration and security without students are like fish without water.
Power and control. And money.
“Well, child rape is reality, but I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want people parading child pornography around to raise awareness about the sex trafficking of little boys and girls. Seeing the truth *can* hurt people, which is why a lot of PRIVATE universities don’t allow graphic displays in their public areas that anyone can see.”
If child rape ever becomes legal or NAMBLA ever has public meetings I not only think it would be appropriate for people to hold these signs but I would hope they feel obligated to hold signs in protest. And hopefully a PRIVATE CHRISTIAN university would support me doing so.
“If child rape ever becomes legal or NAMBLA ever has public meetings I not only think it would be appropriate for people to hold these signs but I would feel obligated to. And hopefully a PRIVATE CHRISTIAN university would support me doing so.”
Really? Would you get permission from the victim in the pictures or just take it upon yourself to show their pain and humiliation in public? I would sue someone for doing that to me, and there are very few things I would sue anyone for.
I don’t understand, at all, the mentality that it’s 100% necessary and appropriate at all times in every place to use graphic imagery if it’s “reality”. And if you don’t agree with it you either don’t feel strongly about the subject matter or you are a coward. It’s poor critical thinking.
Furthermore, if society ever erroneously labels child rape as “intergenerational love” or “minor attraction” and begins to create confusion in the public’s mind as to what is exactly occurring by using these euphemisms that the use of such pictures may, unfortunately, be necessary to remind people of the disgusting crimes these individuals commit.
“Really? Would you get permission from the victim in the pictures or just take it upon yourself to show their pain and humiliation in public? I would sue someone for doing that to me, and there are very few things I would sue anyone for.”
I doubt this comment by you Jack. I think you are a good enough person that if the government sought to legalize child rape you would be one of the first to stand up and voice your dissent and offer any thing, including pictures of your humiliation, in order to prevent that from happening to another child. You would most likely do anything in your power to prevent it from becoming legal. If you wouldn’t, I would like to hear why? Don’t just tell me it is poor critical thinking to support the use of graphic pictures, give me your critical reasons for objecting to the use of them.
“ I think you are a good enough person that if the government sought to legalize child rape you would be one of the first to stand up and voice your dissent and offer any thing, including pictures of your humiliation, in order to prevent that from happening to another child. You would most likely do anything in your power to prevent it from becoming legal.
”
I would allow pictures of me personally to be used at congressional hearings, awareness activities where people can “opt in” whether to see them or not (meaning that they aren’t in a public area where small children or people who have PTSD from childhood abuse can see them), and things of that nature, and possibly pamphlets and websites to be passed out or shown to people and things of that nature. I would have a problem with people blowing them up on signs and using them in public, I think that the harm outweighs the possible good in those cases. Basically, the same thing I think about graphic abortion photos. I don’t think graphic imagery works in every single case and that it’s effective and that the good outweighs the harm in certain cases.
My last sentence got all confused, I meant that I don’t think graphic imagery works in every single case, but there are certain cases that it’s effective and the good outweighs the harm.
How about at university where it is all adults? If pictures don’t get shown in the public, the public is none the wiser. Moderation is good when it comes to vices, moderate it out of existence, but the truth does not need moderation.
Jack, you never established how the graphic images of child rape are equivalent to pictures of abortion. The victims of child rape can still be alive, and the content is different in nature. Abortion victims are, for the most part, deceased. Concern for their “feelings” is moot at this point, so it is a question of respecting them and honoring them. Please deal specifically with why abortion graphic images are not appropriate in public in your opinion especially since there is a profound ignorance in the general public as to what an actual abortion entails. As hard as it is to believe, abortion is a worse crime than child rape. At least the victim of child rape is still alive.
“How about at university where it is all adults? If pictures don’t get shown in the public, the public is none the wiser. Moderation is good when it comes to vices, moderate it out of existence, but the truth does not need moderation”
That’s why I support other ways of getting the information to people without forcing the graphic imagery right away. In the case of the child pornography pictures, there are a ton of adult survivors of CSA who could be seriously hurt and traumatized by seeing those photos, they need to be taken into account too, especially if the photos aren’t actually advancing the case against child abuse.
That’s why I support other ways of getting the information to people without forcing the graphic imagery right away. In the case of the child pornography pictures, there are a ton of adult survivors of CSA who could be seriously hurt and traumatized by seeing those photos, they need to be taken into account too, especially if the photos aren’t actually advancing the case against child abuse.
—-
That is why you need to deal specifically with the issues that you have with the public display of graphic images of abortion. Sadly, and profoundly, these pictures do not hurt the feelings of any victim of abortion.
“Jack, you never established how the graphic images of child rape are equivalent to pictures of abortion. The victims of child rape can still be alive, and the content is different in nature. Abortion victims are, for the most part, deceased. Concern for their “feelings” is moot at this point, so it is a question of respecting them and honoring them. Please deal specifically with why abortion graphic images are not appropriate in public in your opinion.”
Well the babies aren’t the only victims in abortion, though they are the most hurt. Their mothers especially are victimized, their fathers too, and other family members are missing a baby. I am concerned about them, as well as the small children who might be upset or traumatized by seeing them, but it’s really a secondary concern. Like I said before, one of the main reasons I’m not fond of the “force graphic imagery on people in public” is because it doesn’t seem to foster the conversations and learning that I would like to see. It just seems to turn into an argument about “omg how could you show those pictures?!” which seems unproductive to me. This is *my* experience with it, before anyone jumps on me about how I support racism or whatever, I’m not telling you that you can’t hold a different opinion and do as you think is best.
How can graphic images of abortion *not* foster learning in a culture that believes a 7 month preborn baby can be a clump of cells as long as you wish it to be?
“How can graphic images of abortion *not* foster learning in a culture that believes a 7 month preborn baby can be a clump of cells as long as you wish it to be?”
Because most people *don’t* believe that about seven month old unborn babies, the “abortion on demand until birth” crowd is, thankfully, a minority of the populace and even a minority of pro-choicers. Which brings me to another issue, is that a lot of the graphic images focus on babies past the second trimester, when there are many, many more children being killed in the first and early trimester. The majority of people understand that there’s an issue with later term abortions, what we’re having more problems getting through to people is the issue with earlier abortions (which are the same issues with later term abortions, but that’s not getting through to people). The graphic imagery isn’t helping much in this regard, in my opinion.
Jack, the majority may know that a 7 month old is a baby but that to the victims of Gosnell, Carhart, Karpen, etc… and please tell it to the vocal minority at Planned Parenthood Inc. Additionally, I know you understood that picking the 7 month age was arbitrary. As a prolifer you recognize the value of life from the moment of conception so the fact that you argued against that part of my point was a waste of time. As you now acknowledge people are ignorant of the fact that human life develops and that human beings are still human beings even when they are just twelve weeks old (or even a day old, etc…) Furthermore, you also know that the images on most of the posters are not pictures of fetuses that are 7 months-old but of fetuses much younger so once again you are really being insincere when you argue that the posters are meant to only dissuade people from aborting 7 month old fetuses.
I believe the photos that Diana used were photos of first trimester abortion victims.
Comparing photos of dead abortion victims to photos of survivors of violent crimes is apples to oranges.
Proaborts hate the pictures of abortion for a reason. Can an argument be made that abortion photos cause prolifers to become proaborts? Are there people saying, “Well, I used to be prolife but since I’ve seen the photos of aborted children, I now support legal abortion.” No.
Oh it makes me uncomfortable. It might cause trauma to someone. Someone might have a nightmare. Bla. Bla. Bla. The photo of Emmett Till in his casket probably caused discomfort to some too. His mother supported the photo being shown. The racists and the people who put him there did not. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Emmett+Till+Open+Casket&FORM=RESTAB#view=detail&id=E0CD348748C29616946A3B7655D884FA439931AF&selectedIndex=2
We have all heard testimony of people becoming prolife after being exposed to the abortion pictures. Find me one person who went from prolife to a proabort after seeing abortion pictures.
Common sense.
God has to see these images every day – by the thousands and hundreds of thousands. That should be our main concern – and the fact that we don’t do practically anything about it.
Biola would be well-advised to refrain from a cover-up. In Gamaliel’s words (Acts 5:38-39): “Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
Biola would probably lose that fight.
Raymond,
1. First, few articles are anything but one-sided. That does not make them “biased “journalism”’ —- This is more a screed than journalism. I was being kind.
2. Raymond says, “Second, the First Amendment is not suspended on private property, especially if any Biola students use tax dollars (grants, loans). If Biola uses the same criteria to approve/deny permits regardless of the point of view, Biola is legally OK. But, that does not make their decision RIGHT!”
I’ll be right over and hold some Islamic worship in your front yard. BIOLA gave the girl a choice to be heard and no one cared what she had to say, so, like a desperate teen, she screamed and screamed.
2. Third, you wrote: “the sheer arrogance & stupidity of people in this thread to call in peoples Christianity because they aren’t as myopic on an issue as they is beyond silly”. Again, you are judgmental. And you need to improve your reading skills. No one is criticizing Biola personnel because of Biola’s POV on abortion. They are criticizing Biola personnel for their blatant hypocrisy.
Absolutely “judgmental.” We must make righteous judgments and most of the self-righteous hypocrites on this board are easily sniffed out. Their blatant hypocrisy, because they post posters of aborted children on campus, but they won’t let others? If she was promoting sodomy and they stopped it, would they still be hypocrites?
“The president of Biola called for students to stand up for their convictions. A professor lobbied on behalf of “conscience protections”. For Biola to retaliate against Diana is clearly hypocritical. Even YOU should be able to recognize that. Jesus was clearly impatient with hypocrisy. ”
Would you applaud Diana if her posters were of two men having sex?
“Fourth, you wrote: “I … don’t believe it is necessary to show posters in the center in the center of campus…” Extreme situations often demand extreme actions. It was the visceral images of Buddhist monks immolating themselves that helped turn American attitudes against the Vietnam War. It was pictures of blacks who had been lynched or being attacked by police dogs that helped change American attitudes about racism and segregation.
Lets show some gay dudes having sex on campus, maybe people will be appalled at homosexuality then???? ”In response to other posts: I agree that we do not need pictures of victims of rape or the sex trade. Those are very different situations!”
No, don’t be arbitrary, i.e. I don’t want to see those. Don’t be a hypocrite like BIOLA, Ray Ray. Lets just show gay dudes having sex. People are arguing that is acceptable. We need billboards and posters everywhere of gay dudes having sex.
”Lastly, you wrote: “Diana, if you want to be “radical” or whatever you think you are, then live with the consequences.” Is that an example of YOUR Christian compassion? You would probable say the same thing to abolitionists and Dietrich Bonheoffer (pastor executed by Nazis for speaking out against Hitler).”
Most of the abolitionists, like John Brown and company were wicked and unitarian humanists. Yes, I def would’ve said the same with them. Bonheoffer had brass and was willing to execute Hitler, not show some pictures from gassed Jews, and lived with the consequences. Tell Diana to get some brass and start executing Dr’s and pro-abort mothers, then put her in Boenhoffer’s camp. Until then, quit with the tired rhetoric Ray Ray.