Response to appeal for happy abortion stories
Jessica Grose… asserts that the way to energize, and gain momentum for, the abortion-rights movement is to trot out “blithe” abortion stories….
Ms. Grose, those essays don’t get mainstream play because they’d make most people angry and very unsympathetic.
“I want the baby dead because f*** this baby” isn’t going to win friends.
~ Blogger Christina Dunigan reacting to Slate writer and past editor of Jezebel, Jessica Grose’s (pictured) lamentation about the lack of uplifting, “unapologetic” abortion stories, Real Choice, July 11
[HT: Kel]
[Photo via sheknows.com]
Jul.12, 2013 2:00 am |
Apologetics |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I read Christina’s article and the only person I can find who says “I want the baby dead because f*** this baby” is Christina. The rest mainly talk about their relief.
“Folks, when abortion is recriminalized (in the year 2525, when man is no longer alive?), we’ll be dealing with these enthused individuals for whom abortion isn’t seen as a tragic necessity, but as something to be outright embraced and celebrated.” – and you want to force them to become parents??
In 1860 you could have heard much better reasons for supporting slavery. If the internet had existed back then, it would have been quite easy to energize, and gain momentum for a slavery-rights movement by trotting out “blithe” slave owership stories….
“and you want to force them to become parents??”
Upon what grounds are you making this statement? So, certain pro-choice people aren’t fit to be parents in your opinion Reality, but some are? That is a curious statement Reality.
I think we’re getting to the point where more and more, the pro-abortion crowd are speaking their actual minds. It will be to their detriment though. Many pro-fence types think of abortion as this icky, hush-hush thing, but they don’t want to impose, etc. When abortion is waved out there as a cause for celebration, we’ll gain some of those fence-types for sheer horror.
Yes. Reality.
I felt relieved too. For about a day.
So what?
My child was still dead.
Jamie,
Totally agree.
The minions are screeching and clawing and clammoring for their “precious.”
And more and more hearts will turn toward life when they see that the abortion lovers truly will do and say anything to keep their child sacrifice.
And Reality – you are not correct – you obviously did not go to the link provided by both the Slate writer and Christina – the site “What to expect when your aborting?” On that website in the left column she says the following: “I’m 23, I’m knocked up. I’m not keeping it. You can f*** yourself Judd Apatow.”
Doing a quick read of her site reveals her attitude to her unborn baby. It ain’t pretty or caring or respectful.
Well, I would think that the majority of women seeking abortion don’t feel “blithe.” Maybe they can lie to themselves and pretend to feel relieved, but I think that’s as close to blithe as you’re going to get. Even the “Hoo-rah” abortion stories I’ve read (on Slate, HuffPo, etc.) have a strong undercurrent of tension and fear and regret. Or bitterness. There’s lots of bitterness surrounding abortion. Nothing blithe.
And let’s be honest. A majority of pregnancies *that are wanted* are fraught with difficulties. It’s not easy. It can be really scary. So if you respond to the scary parts of pregnancy with ending the life of that baby, it’s only going to compound the fear and the pain. You might get relief for a minute, or a day, or even a year, but it will come back to haunt you.
I think both sides need to be a tad more honest about the realities surrounding unplanned pregnancies. For pro-aborts, abortion isn’t ever a blithe decision. It’s a damaging decision and no amount of semantics will change what happens to a mother’s heart. And for the pro-lifers, pregnancy, especially the unplanned variety, can be scary. Yes, beautiful. Yes, you’re giving life and all that. But we need to stop denying that women considering abortions are often considering it for a reason – because they feel like they have no other option.
Relief is commonly felt after abortion.
The crisis is over. The decision was made. The problem is solved. You can finally leave that mill. You can get on with your life. So they tell you. So you believe.
The relief is short lived for so many of us that now regret it.
I have read all of the stories at imnotsorry and I agree LB. I read the pain, the doubt, the sadness!!
THIS
But we need to stop denying that women considering abortions are often considering it for a reason – because they feel like they have no other option.
and you want to force them to become parents??
A civil society doesn’t kill a child because his/her parent(s) is a psychopath.
These proabort psychos love abortion for the same reason we prolifers hate it — abortion kills a human.
And yet you’d totally be fine with these “psychos” parenting children? Wouldn’t you fear an Andrea Yates-type situation happening on a grand scale?
“ and you want to force them to become parents??”
They already are parents “Reality”. Whether or not you choose to accept that in your deluded version of reality won’t change that fact.
And whether the parents choose to accept it or not won’t excuse them from their parental responsibilities to protect and provide for the life God has entrusted to their care. In their hardness of heart, they can kill their baby and they will have the stain of his/her innocent blood on their hands.
And there’s only one way to remove that stain. There is only one thing in the whole universe powerful enough to clean one’s conscience from the guilt of murder, of taking an innocent life…
It’s the Blood of Christ.
Jessica’s urge for “blithe” abortion stories is like Tosh O.’s attempt at abortion “humor.”
It just doesn’t work, because it is contrary to the lived reality of most people who have experienced it.
BlueVelvet, I am glad that you agree that they are psychos but aren’t you the one who argues that these same individuals can later “choose” to be parents as soon as they “want” their child?
Most prolifers believe in the power of forgiveness and redemption. Your question is better directed to secular prolifers. In any event, Christians believe the power of Jesus’ death on the Cross justifies the most evil person. Also, you forget that it is the very reality and existence of abortion and the pro-choice rhetoric that is tormenting these individuals. It is the idea of abortion that is causing them to go insane – remove the cause, the idea and reality of abortion, and most of these individuals would be quite sane. As I have said before, the very idea of abortion rapes the mind of an individual. Some ideas are so bad they shouldn’t even be expressed. Any unjustly oppressed class of persons understands the crushing power of certain ideas.
Between this and the brochoice guy, maybe the pro-choice movement will just kind of destroy itself.
BlueVelvet says:
July 12, 2013 at 10:23 am
And yet you’d totally be fine with these “psychos” parenting children? Wouldn’t you fear an Andrea Yates-type situation happening on a grand scale?
You are suggesting that we should keep killing millions of children because some parents might not not meet our standards? That would really be very cruel of us, to endorse preemptive killings on the basis of eugenics. We’d be like the pro-choicers.
We really do trust women to do what is best for their children. We also realize that women and children need protection from the coercion and predators who urge abortion upon them when they are vulnerable and afraid.
Wouldn’t you fear an Andrea Yates-type situation happening on a grand scale?
No, I try very hard not to live a life of fear. Women are killing their born children at higher rates since legalized abortion than before so there’s that.
The majority of women who abort are not psychopaths — they are scared, unsupported, manipulated, confused, misinformed, coerced and lied to by a society that puts material gains (including educational degrees) before love of family. Some women are narcissistic and selfish as well. All of these women and their babies need and deserve our love and support. Sometimes the child will be better off with the father, other family members or given up for adoption.
It’s the women who looooooove abortion, get pregnant just to abort and find glee in the death of others who I was referring to, Blue Velvet. The women who have much in common with serial killers. I don’t think encouraging the blood lust of killers is a smart idea.
Our society doesn’t kill the born children of psychopaths/killers/rapists so where is the rationale that we kill the child of a pychopath before birth?
Also, just so it is clear I am not advocating that we take away the free speech rights of pro-choice people, I am simply hoping that prochoice people will become educated enough about their disgusting ideas that they themselves won’t want to repeat them publicly anymore. It is a matter of public decorum and respect. Preaching abortion to a young pregnant teen with little financial resources is like talking about the benefits of suicide to a depressed Stock Broker standing on the ledge of the 32nd floor of his office building. Just not a good, let alone fair, thing to do.
“Love of material gains?” Surely you would not be referring to our dear conservative right, which will gladly trod on the middle class to preserve the wealth of an annointed few.
BlueVelvet says:
July 12, 2013 at 11:23 am
“Love of material gains?” Surely you would not be referring to our dear conservative right, which will gladly trod on the middle class to preserve the wealth of an annointed few.
If the middle class believed that, we wouldn’t vote so overwhelmingly for Republicans.
And you can never stay on topic. Do you keep losing track of your thoughts? Or are you just losing the whole argument?
The middle class actually doesn’t “overwhelmingly” vote Republican, thankfully. But I AM consistently amazed at the sheer number of people who can be duped into voting against their self interests.
BTW I was merely responding to Praxedes’ assertion that our society’s “love of material gains” influences women’s reproductive decisions. It’s time for y’all to take a long, hard look at the contempt the conservative ruling party has for the poor, middle and working classes. It’s a contempt written all over every policy they enact – policies that make it harder for women to have and raise kids.
Apparently women in this country are only “vulnerable” when they’re inside a Planned Parenthood.
Apparently women in this country are only “vulnerable” when they’re inside a Planned Parenthood.
Not sure where you’re getting this, but it’s pretty obvious you’re trolling an have attempted to redirect the conversation toward… Republicans?? And away from the reality of abortion. But we get it, Megan.
By the way, according to abortion fans, women are vulnerable inside a pregnancy resource center. But inside a Planned Parenthood? “Empowered!” Surely you got that memo.
No, I do get it. Pro-lifers can whine all they want about women being “scared” and “coerced” into abortion, but any discussion of the sociopolitcal conditions that lead to that double-bind choice is “off topic.”
BlueVelvet says:
July 12, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Apparently women in this country are only “vulnerable” when they’re inside a Planned Parenthood.
The existence of Planned Parenthood also makes women vulnerable to coercion by parents, boyfriends, abusive husbands and lovers, sexual abusers and predators, liberal welfare administrators, pimps, and their own fears. The abortion industry both enables and profits from the abuse of women, primarily by killing their children.
Planned Parenthood is not there to help a woman suffering after her abortion, or if she decides to keep her child. They don’t care about women. They care about getting paid.
With all the highly intelligent, educated and articulate pro-choicers out there moving the world one would think they would have already come up with an effective truth filled pitch for selling the awesome beauty of unregulated abortion on demand.
I wish Jessica good luck in her quest to find one…after all…Women deserve better.
“Surely you would not be referring to our dear conservative right, which will gladly trod on the middle class to preserve the wealth of an annointed few.”
Surely I’m going to point out the social injustice hypocrisy of the left: We want government to support all of our many wants and needs, and but since that costs a lot of money, we need to kill off lots of babies.” It is you liberal elitists that think ONLY THE ANNOINTED FEW BABIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO LIVE.
the sociopolitcal conditions that lead to that double-bind choice is “off topic.”
Megan, did you abort your child because the conservative right didn’t get you enough “stuff” you needed to decide to give birth to your child?
Did you abort because of the broader sociopolitical conditions that affect women?
While I agree that more should be done to help pregnant women, you know that you had other options. You did not have to take a life. You chose to do so.
Help was available to you AND your child, but you are too biased and angry at pro-lifers to see it.
I really do hope that one day you come to the point where you realize that your decision is your responsibility and not the fault of any political party.
Yes, as you point out, I was fortunate enough to have the resources I needed to make a fully informed and freely elected choice. But we’re getting off topic now, sweetheart. This concersation isn’t about my experiences but about all the poor women who are “coerced” into abortion through circumatance. If you think that’s the case, then surely you’ll agree that it’s a problem that can’t be fixed with a box of diapers and a stern lecture about bootstraps, etc.
Blue Velvet. Please. I can agree that your more liberal view is by and large held by you because you think it will help women and people in the middle class. I sincerely, heartily disagree with the sociopolitical methods you seem to want (though I’m not a Conservative/Republican so don’t go throwing the “conservative ruling party” in my face because I don’t agree with most of them). But do me the courtesy of not just ascribing “contempt” to the other side simply because you don’t agree with the methods.
First of all, politics is a slow, cumbersome, and tedious way to deal with social issues. Politics isn’t the answer.
Second of all, that’s not even what we’re talking about here. We were talking about how people in general talk about and view abortion (see: getting more “blithe” abortion stories to rev up the abortion movement). How do people talk about abortion? How do we understand it as we see neighbors, co-workers, family and friends deal with unplanned pregnancy situations?
Now, yes, there are ways to use laws to make it easier to raise children and help women in unplanned situations. But I think that many of the more “liberal” “help” programs already in place have done little to alleviate that difficulty. So maybe it’s time to look at a different method of helping out women?
And another thing. It is difficult, yes, to raise a child in the current sociopolitical environment, as you say. BUT it is not impossible. What makes it *seem* impossible is when the abortion industry comes alongside a woman in a difficult situation and promises them an easy fix. Pay $400 and it’s done as opposed to maybe asking for help from family, or working another job, or …. or…. Abortion is offered as an easy alternative – but that alternative will turn out to be a lie. And that’s what makes me mad, mad as hell. Because we have these women in situations where they need actual help and assistance, they need to be directed to caring charity organizations, etc. who will actually help them get on their feet and continue their educations, or to – gasp – adopt their babies. An unplanned pregnancy will rearrange your life. It will be difficult. But what makes me mad is when the abortion industry tells these women that there is an “easy fix.” No, there’s not. The easy fix would have been to not get pregnant. But it’s too late for that. So don’t sell women this crap that abortion is their only answer. It’s not.
And in teh long run, it’ll cost them more because it will cost them emotionally, spiritually, relationally, and yes, even though most abortion proponents hate to admit it, physically as well. When compared to the long-term damage and costs in self-respect and peace and relationships, struggling to pay for a baby for a few years doesn’t seem so bad – even under the “contempt” of the current system.
“We want government to support all our many wants and needs.”
What, like decent education, healthcare and labor protections? People in most postindustrial countries would call these things basic necessities for a productive society, not “wants.”
But I AM consistently amazed at the sheer number of people who can be duped into voting against their self interests.
wee no, we no, we iz so dum and yew AM sew smart
Who are you quoting, BlueVelvet? And that’s where we agree to disagree – those things are great, and needs, but I don’t think they are most effectively served by the government.
Women are getting unexpectedly pregnant every day. The government and social situation isn’t going to change overnight. We need to beef up community efforts to let women know that abortion is not only not the only answer, but it’s not even an easy or good answer. It’s a solution that will only change the nature of their current problems, not make them go away.
BlueVelvet, regarding your concern for the economic welfare of unwed pregnant women why don’t you promote marriage and responsible fatherhood instead of abortion?
BlueVelvet says:
July 12, 2013 at 1:01 pm
“We want government to support all our many wants and needs.”What, like decent education, healthcare and labor protections? People in most postindustrial countries would call these things basic necessities for a productive society, not “wants.”
Like you said. We even think that our “wants” are actually “needs” that a government should provide for us.
We also, just as stupidly, believe that our employers should provide those things for us. And so we put our trust and well-being into the hands of Big Government and Big Business — and those two conspire together against our little families, throwing us bones to keep us content and working for them.
Employers like paying for our contraception and abortion. We don’t demand so much money if we have smaller families to provide for.
And politicians like to keep us dependent upon them for the hand-outs, but they don’t want to give us too much. So they want us to have contraception.
Did you ever wonder why home-schooling families always seem to have lots of kids? It’s because they are self-sufficient. It brings freedom.
This concersation isn’t about my experiences but about all the poor women who are “coerced” into abortion through circumatance.
Actually, this conversation was about the quote above, and about the Slate writer who was wishing for happy abortion stories.
So, maybe you should write in to Ms. Grose with your happy abortion story, since she seems not to be too concerned about women being coerced (you put “coerced” in quotes as if that never happens… I find your denial to be rather startling), or about making sure women have resources so they don’t feel forced into abortions, but about women being happy that they’ve killed their children.
Why do I have the feeling, by the way, that abortion fans wouldn’t care if we lived in a perfect world with all the perfect socioeconomic, sociopolitical conditions for women… they would still demand abortion for any reason.
If the mantra is “abortion on demand and without apology,” then social and political conditions really don’t seem to matter to pro-choice women.
I actually do have a happy abortion story: I had an abortion. It was the worst thing ever for my child. I became pro-life. Now I’m happy. :>)
Andrea Yates isn’t a psychopath. She’s psychotic and mentally ill, but she’s not a psychopath. It’s a shame that she didn’t get the professional help for her mental illness that she so sorely needed before tragedy struck, but aborting her children prior to their births was not the cure or treatment for her mental illness.
Where do pro-choicers get this bizarre idea that abortion is a treatment for mental illness? I’ve never seen that belief supported in any medical literature.
“Andrea Yates isn’t a psychopath. She’s psychotic and mentally ill, but she’s not a psychopath. It’s a shame that she didn’t get the professional help for her mental illness that she so sorely needed before tragedy struck, but aborting her children prior to their births was not the cure or treatment for her mental illness.”
Omg this, so much. Drives me crazy. Andrea Yates had really bad mental health issues and her husband certainly didn’t step up like he should have. Her children being killed before birth would not have fixed the mental health problems or made her husband be more responsible. In both cases (what really happened and the alternate reality if she aborted the kids), you would have a bunch of dead children and Andrea still would have been ill. She should have been helped and her children should have been protected from her, killing the kids doesn’t help anyone.
It’s like when people blame my mom’s worsening mental illness issues on being “forced” to give birth to me. No, I didn’t cause them, she was already ill, you can ask my older siblings. Killing me wouldn’t have made her magically better, she would still be mentally ill and still have a terrible husband and the issues that caused her to get so bad would have been the same, except she’d have a dead kid instead of a living kid. “Abortions for mental health” my a$$.
A hundred thousand hearty “hear! Hear!” s to what Jack and JoAnna said!!!!
Abortion does not solve problems; it only makes existing problems worse.
This is true in cases of rape, incest, mental illness, poverty, broken relationships, you name it.
“So, certain pro-choice people aren’t fit to be parents in your opinion Reality, but some are?” – not at all.
That is a curious question Tyler.
Judd Apatow is a fetus? Inside a woman?
“These proabort psychos love abortion for the same reason we prolifers hate it — abortion kills a human.” – you’ve got evidence for that then?
“It’s the women who looooooove abortion, get pregnant just to abort and find glee in the death of others who I was referring to” – oh please, put that on a banner and parade with it.
“Whether or not you choose to accept that in your deluded version of reality won’t change that fact.” – pot, kettle.
“maybe the pro-choice movement will just kind of destroy itself.” – nah, there’s too much demand. You’d have more luck ridding the world of cars.
ninek says:
July 12, 2013 at 2:18 pm
I actually do have a happy abortion story: I had an abortion. It was the worst thing ever for my child. I became pro-life. Now I’m happy. :>)
That is a very good story…. but it is not a happy one.
I mourn with you over the loss of your little one. And I am happy with you that you have found healing and happiness.
I became pro-life when I was a child — in 1973, when the choice was thrust upon us. For many years, my empathy was always with the children. Only recently have I come to also appreciate the suffering of the women, and the love that you need.
“Abortions for my mental health my a$$.”
Enough. Only your side claims that one reproductive event can change or “solve” anything. So your response to that straw-conundrum is to just steamroll over what women want because no one decision will clear up all their problems. What kind of logic is that?
” Enough. Only your side claims that one reproductive event can change or “solve” anything. So your response to that straw-conundrum is to just steamroll over what women want because no one decision will clear up all their problems. What kind of logic is that?”
No, not just “my side”, I’ve heard this exact reasoning from pro-choicers too.
My response is that children deserve protection regardless of what women, or men, or anyone wants.
Only your side claims that one reproductive event can change or “solve” anything.
Not true. Talk about strawman arguments. Where did anyone claim that having a baby would change or solve mental illness? It won’t. Only excellent psychiatric care and a good regimen of medication can successfully treat mental illness (and even then the cooperation of the ill person is vital to its success). But killing the child won’t change or solve mental illness, either, and isn’t it better to make sure that as few people as possible die?
Abortion IS an Andrea Yates situation on a grand scale.
“…steamroll over what women want…” says the person who advocates sucking a small human being into a tube and flushing him down a sink.
Oh yes, of course. We’ll try to treat your mental illness but we don’t really care what you think is best for your mental and physical health and future. Have fun with that whole giving birth thing, and maybe some nice couple will adopt the kid while you try to get your life together. Maybe they’ll even send you a card on Christmas. Wheeee!!!
Sure beats a dead child, Megan, especialy considering that post-abortive women are at a higher risk for suicide: http://www.aaplog.org/complications-of-induced-abortion/induced-abortion-and-maternal-mortality/induced-abortion-and-maternal-suicide/
Megs, what would have had to happen in your story for you not to abort??
BlueVelvet’s reminding me of the part in Treasure of Sierra Madre where Bogart’s getting really paranoid:
Bob Curtin: Wouldn’t it be better, the way things are, to separate tomorrow, or even tonight?
Fred C. Dobbs: That would suit you fine, wouldn’t it?
Curtin: Why me more than you?
Dobbs: So you could fall on me from behind, sneak up and shoot me in the back!
Curtin: All right, I’ll go first.
Dobbs: And wait for me on the trail to ambush me?
It’s as if BV said “You don’t care about drunks!” “That’s not true. I’m designated driver at a nearby bar every Saturday night.” “Ah! You obviously have a crummy marriage.” “What? That’s silly. My wife’s a nurse on a night shift, so this is my way of…” ”Ha! You’re obviously a lousy provider.” :-/
Basically, whatever anyone tells BV, s/he has a retort, finding some new problem even after a reasonable defensive answer.
Weird, just weird.
oh please, put that on a banner and parade with it.
Why? So you could fall on me from behind, sneak up and shoot me in the back!
That’s a piss poor literature review, Joanna.
Rasqual: what “reasonable defensive answer” are you pointing to? I don’t see any.
Courtnay: nothing, because I didn’t want to be pregnant. Why did you feel the need to have kids? Should that even be my business?
nothing, because I didn’t want to be pregnant. Why did you feel the need to have kids? Should that even be my business?
Yeah. Too bad the abortion debate is not just about Courtnay wanting to have kids or you not wanting to be pregnant. When you prematurely ended your pregnancy, your child was killed by force.
It’s sad that consideration for your child appears absolutely nowhere in your thought processes.
“We’ll try to treat your mental illness but we don’t really care what you think is best for your mental and physical health and future.”
This is silly. Sometimes people think that self-mutilation, suicide, all kinds of things are best for themselves when they are mentally ill. We don’t let people off themselves without trying to intervene, and we shouldn’t let people off their offspring without trying to intervene. Same with what people want for their future. All wants are not equal.
It’s all our business when someone kills their own child on the altar of personal preference. You betcha. If I don’t care about that, where would my heart be? Oh, right. Dead.
I felt the need to have kids when I hooked up with a real man, not a bro-choicer. It really makes a difference, Megs.
Let me translate from Megan to English. “Piss poor” = “doesn’t fit my preconceived biases”
Then there’s this: Table 7 presents our tabulation of these studies; of particular note is the association between induced abortion and either suicide or suicide attempt.(90,93,96,97) This is an objective rather than a subjective outcome, and the fact that the effects are seen after induced abortion rather than before,(90,93) indicates either common risk factors for both choosing abortion and attempting suicide, such as depression, or harmful effects of induced abortion on mental health. This phenomena is not seen after spontaneous abortion.(91) Other studies tabulated that demonstrated increased risk of depression or emotional problems after induced abortion in certain subgroups may explain the psychopathology that culminates in deliberate self harm.(88,91,94)
“nothing, because I didn’t want to be pregnant”
Then why on earth were you engaging in the activity that causes pregnancy in the first place, if you didn’t want to be pregnant?? That’s like me saying, “I don’t want to gain weight” as I shove a slice of chocolate cake in my mouth.
I always wondering how much cognitive dissonance it takes to talk to people that would be dead if what you advocate was always implemented, but think that these people should agree with you? It’s the weirdest thing to me. Megan do you really expect me to be like “Oh, totally, you’re right, my existence is a tragedy and my mother should have gotten her way and been able to kill me.” Seriously, it’s weird.
I am not sure if this has been asked of you yet BlueVelvet, but how much government support for women do you think is required so that women will no longer feel that abortion is necessary? For example, if, hypothetically speaking, the government gave each woman $1,000,000 dollars when they became unexpectedly pregnant would you then agree that abortion is no longer needed by women?
Oh yes, of course. We’ll try to treat your mental illness but we don’t really care what you think is best for your mental and physical health and future. Have fun with that whole giving birth thing, and maybe some nice couple will adopt the kid while you try to get your life together. Maybe they’ll even send you a card on Christmas. Wheeee!!!
So, what, your solution is: We really don’t care what’s best for the child you’ve created so let’s not only further traumatize you with a highly invasive procedure that will probably exacerbate your current problems but also kill that baby you made, robbing both of you the possibility of ever living a fulfilling life? Have fun in the mental hospital doped out of your mind! We at Planned Parenthood/other abortionists might send you a card at Christmas!! Wait, we don’t do that we don’t care what happens to you as long as your baby doesn’t get to live!!! Wheeeee!!!
Aborting the offspring of people who are mentally ill: because actually curing them and finding a home for their children is too much work.
I hope BlueVelvet responds to my question. It is actually a serious question. BlueVelvet, if you don’t like that I used a dollar amount in my example please free to replace it with some kind of government program, or a variety of government programs. Basically, please feel free to substitute the dollar amount with whatever would work in your opinion to eliminate a woman’s “need” for an abortion.
Jack: Your mother did deserve a choice, and it does sound like your father used pregnancy as a way to control her. That wasn’t okay. But you are a good thing that resulted from a bad situation.
Libertybelle: I doubt any mental health provider worth his/her salt would agree with your proposition
Your mother did deserve a choice, and it does sound like your father used pregnancy as a way to control her. That wasn’t okay. But you are a good thing that resulted from a bad situation.
“But you are a good thing that resulted from a bad situation.” is in direct opposition to “Your mother did deserve a choice…”, because that statement means, “I think your mother should have had the right to kill you like she wanted to, and you should be dead right now.” I’m sorry you can’t seem to let yourself see that.
I was hoping Blue Velvet would respond to your question, too, Tyler but it’s not looking good.
Praxedes, perhaps you can ask her.
Hey, BlueVelvet, if Jack is a good thing coming from a bad situation – what about all those kids who would’ve grown-up and not died their hair blue or purple? Aren’t they “good things” as well? Now, I know if they turned out like me you would’ve had to send them back, but what if we got a LightBlueVelvet? Or perhaps a little PinkVelvet? Wouldn’t they also be “good things?” Or is it because Jack has very heart moving story that his mother gets pass from having to kill her children in utero? What is so special about Jack and his Mom? I resent the fact that you think it would’ve be ok if my Mother killed me in utero? What about xalisae? What about Praxedes? What about yourself? Should’ve their mother had the right to them in utero?
(PS – Just teasing Jack.)
Praxedes, I think it may be because she doesn’t have answer to my question. She wants to be able to kill children in utero no matter what, as I believe Del and yourself pointed out. I think “abortion on demand” means “abortion no matter what the situation.” Mom and dad can be loaded millionaires and they should still be able to off their children and have the government pay for it.
Yeah. She’s set herself and other women like her up as the Center of the Universe, and no appeal from the discarded unchosen children will sway her.
What Momma wants, Momma gets, even if it’s a dead child.
I’ll try, Tyler. Maybe if I ask real nice.
Blue Velvet, (imagine the sweetest, sincerest voice ever),
How much government support for women do you think is required so that women will no longer feel that abortion is necessary?
@ Praxedes: A woman can’t have an abortion unless she is pregnant. Shouldn’t out major goal be decreasing pregnancies in women who aren’t emotionally prepared to carry and give birth?
DeniseNoe, yes, and that is the reason abstinence is the answer. Until we are ready to marry and create a family, having sex sets up the conditions for abortion, because sex between a man and a woman is God’s channel to create a new life (or lives, in the case of multiples). So – no marriage possible = no sex should be undertaken. This means that more contraception is NOT the answer. In fact, the more we push contraception, the more babies will be seen as the problem to be solved through abortion. It *seemed* to make sense, way back in the 1970’s, but we were deluded. The reality is the opposite. Get OFF artificial birth control, stop having sex before marriage, stop the need for abortion. Things used to be more or less in balance – when young women did get pregnant out of wedlock, there were couples to adopt the babies. But now, it’s either keep the baby or abort – adoption is seen as “too difficult.”
“Things used to be more or less in balance – when young women did get pregnant out of wedlock, there were couples to adopt the babies. But now, it’s either keep the baby or abort – adoption is seen as “too difficult.””
You mean they had their babies basically stolen or were shamed and coerced into adopting out their infants. Read up on the Baby Scoop Era, it will break anyone’s heart. That’s definitely not something anyone should want to go back to.
The Baby Scoop era is over. Now, it seems as though some women are shamed if they DO choose adoption for their child!* Also, I sometimes wonder at the people (journalists in particular) who get all sentimental and misty-eyed about mother-child Baby Scoop reunions, but then freely criticize the girls on “Teen Mom.”
*I have no problems with a young single mother choosing to raise her child if she does so responsibly, I just think adoption should not have the stigma it seems to have developed.
P.S. There are still many couples, (gay/lesbian and straight) as well as single people who seek to adopt. You can find thousands of their profiles on the Internet alone!
Bluevelvet – every person has a right to life – even if its a life overcoming obstacles such as poverty and/or psychopathic parents. My life has been a perfect example. Product of an adulterous affair born to a pschyzo-effective man and a borderline woman. Addiction, abuse, and dysfunction in every branch of the family tree. Poverty, crime, failing schools throughout my childhood. I’m educated, faithful, happy and a good mother. But you’d say, “why bother giving somebody a chance when they are starting with such a deficit?” Why do you presume that your “chances” we’re good enough to allow you to live but somebody else’s “chances” weren’t even “worth it?” It’s crazy talk.