Stanek weekend Q: Will attempts to destigmatize abortion work in pro-life favor?
Pro-choice activists are on a new bandwagon: To normalize abortion, no sob stories are allowed.
For instance, excusing abortions for rape and incest is bad. To do so is to say some abortions are justifiable, some are not. According to post-abortive Merritt Tierce in a New York Times op ed:
By repeating only the gut-wrenching, heartbreaking, terrifying abortion stories, we protect a lie: that abortion isn’t normal. We have learned to think of abortion with shame and fear. We have accepted the damaging idea that a person who wants an abortion must grovel before the consciences of others…. We have to stop categorizing abortions as justified or unjustified.
Tierce used her own two abortions as examples of what we must all accept.
Tierce got her first abortion after having an affair and being unsure who the father was. She added a sob story, even though she had just said they weren’t allowed. “My kids were 2 and 3, and the debilitating morning sickness, which I experienced early in each of my pregnancies, made it difficult to work or care for two toddlers.”
Tierce’s rationale for her second abortion was even more spurious. Her story really makes no sense. Tierce (pictured left) inexplicably “sabotaged” her birth control, she says, to get control back from an emotionally abusive partner. ”The whole situation was a complete abscess,” she admits, therefore she got pregnant to force him to “publicly acknowledge our relationship existed”?
But her plan failed, so she got an abortion. And used her two surviving children as rationalization once again, “ I knew that having that baby would have been a terrible thing for my children.”
In other words, Tierce got pregnant on purpose to trap a man, but when he didn’t fall into the trap, she killed her tiny hostage.
This is what abortion zealots are newly advocating: No excuses for abortions. Abortions just are.
It seems to me this tactic will work in pro-life favor. For years the other side has held up the small percentage of abortions for “hard cases” – rape, incest, handicapped babies – as reasons Americans must stomach ALL abortions. Will they really throw that successful tactic by the wayside, all to theoretically normalize abortion?
Your thoughts?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
NO!!!! Abortion is not normal and no group will convince us otherwise. When my sister was born I was 3 and my brother was almost 2. My mom didn’t go for abortion. 2 years later when it was legal in Washington State my mom didn’t go for abortion. 4 years after that my mom didn’t go for abortion. 5 years after that my mom didn’t go for abortion. Children are wonderful if you just give them the chance. Always say no to abortion.
Dead eyes.
Yes, I think this tactic will work in pro-life favor. Deep down, I think the majority of people recognize that killing another human being is wrong. They may be able to tolerate abortion by not thinking about it or by only thinking about those hard cases where they can convince themselves that abortion is actually compassionate. But if abortion advocates flood the world with their coldly calculated abortion stories, I think most people will recognize how unjustifiable the killing really is.
Tierce found “it difficult to work or care for two toddlers”. Found time to have boyfriends and abortions though. Wish people would project future problems and outcomes and possibly avoid entering the situations that cause such problems.
Are her born children grown and out on their own? Hope they turned out OK and not traumatized by these events.
As far as ““sabotaged” her birth control” goes, I have read way to many times of the boyfriend killing the girl just because he “thought” she was pregnant. Not a smart move! BC does not work well enough on it’s own without your help. And the guy is an “emotionally abusive partner”. Oh my!
It’s not really anything new to be honest. They tried to do this before (Ms. Magazine and Imnotsorry.net are two examples). Planned Parenthood dabbled in it about ten years ago when they started selling their “I had an abortion” t-shirts, though the campaign was a colossal failure and they even faced criticism from within the organization.
Most proponents of this sort of tactic are hardcore feminists that believe “abortion stigma” (which can be defined as “any aversion, no matter how slight, to the idea that there’s nothing wrong with abortion whatsoever”) is a mere front for punishing the “dirty sluts” for their promiscuity. If this is the case, then having “good women” come out and say they had abortions will work in abortion proponents’ favour. This is how the gay pride movement was able to destigmatize homosexual relationships – they showed us that gay people are just as normal as everybody else (through sympathetic portrayals in sitcoms and celebrities coming out, among other things). Here in Canada, it is not socially acceptable to be against gay rights in any way – not unlike racism. Big city mayors like Rob Ford and Don Atchison face severe criticism if they refuse to attend the annual pride parade or object to raising the rainbow flag at city hall. The U.S. doesn’t seem to be too far behind.
The fallacy lies in that most people who are not on board with “abortion on demand without apology” don’t see abortion as a form of sexual deviance (as they did with homosexuality). Abortion proponents might have been able to get away with this sort of reasoning in the early 1980s, when the pro-life movement was heavily centred around “family values” organizations like Focus on the Family and the Moral Majority. But these organizations have considerably lost influence, America is more secular than ever before, and most people are now in favour of same-sex marriage. Yet the pro-life movement is no weaker than it was 30 years ago. This is because the advent of 3D ultrasounds and the debates over brutal late-term abortion procedures have made it impossible to deny the humanity of the unborn child without torpedoing your credibility. Frances Kissling noted this back in 2011, where she essentially suggested that pro-choicers admit abortion is a necessary evil rather than a moral good and that pro-choicers will never get anywhere trying to reclaim this ground. Naomi Wolf gave similar commentary in 1995, when she wrote that passionate feminists “might well hold candlelight vigils at abortion clinics, standing shoulder to shoulder with the doctors who work there, commemorating and saying goodbye to the dead.”
Newt Gingrich once remarked that “most Americans are pro-choice but anti-abortion”. As pro-lifers, I think we’re often tempted to set up a false dichotomy (either the pro-life position is true, or there’s nothing wrong with abortion at all). We wonder “why on Earth would someone want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare? If it doesn’t unjustly kill a person, why would anyone care about making it rare? It’s no different from removing an ingrown toenail!” But I think if you push hard enough and make them answer the right questions, most pro-choice advocates will either tell you that they see abortion on the same line as dog euthanasia or defend abortion on the grounds of bodily-rights. Most people see the former as tragic and want to prevent it to the fullest extent, but are willing to tolerate it (even for socioeconomic reasons) because they don’t think dogs have the same rights humans do. Likewise, we strongly encourage people to donate their blood and organs but we don’t make it mandatory (even if it means more people will die). Thus a pro-choice person can consistently object to Emily Letts’s publicity stunt, hospitals that burn aborted babies to generate energy, or Josie Cunningham’s plan to have an abortion for frivolous reasons. We need to do a better job demonstrating that the pro-life position on abortion (that it’s a human-rights violation and we need to make it unthinkable) makes more sense than either of these views. This is no simple task, but it will be easier if abortion proponents alienate themselves from the mainstream. Advocating “abortion on demand without apology” would be a fantastic way to do this.
The need to “de-stigmatize” abortion in itself speaks volumes.
Tierce, you’re not even certain who fathered your first aborted child. You try to trap a man with a pregnancy. You allow men to use and abuse you, even trying to hold on to an emotionally abusive partner. Why was acknowledging his relationship with you so important? Did you have so little self respect that your worth was measured only by his recognition?
No wonder your eyes are so sad and empty.
I would think the feminist and abortion rights movements would consider Tierce an embarrassment.
This woman is desperate for a man to look after her and she is clueless. She needs to quit looking for men and find herself a relationship with the Lord.
Sounds like a man hater. Read a few threads down about how she spent Rush Limbaughs tips.
Im not a Rush fan but Id love for him to find out what you did and request a new waitress. Calling him creepy and all. Trust me look at his wife. The tip was probably for a hairstyle and makeover. Probably said…boy oh boy looks like this one could use a few bucks. Then you gave it to baby killing you creep!
“Tierce got pregnant on purpose to trap a man, but when he didn’t fall into the trap, she killed her tiny hostage.”
Wow. No wonder she is screwed up now. She must be carrying a massive load of suppressed guilt. There is no way you can’t know deep down that this is just wrong. So of course she works overtime to justify not just her abortion, but all abortions. Sad.
P.S. Jill, I hate to be a nitpicker, but I think you really used the wrong word when you called the reason Tierce used to justify this abortion “scurrilous.” This means either something expressed in coarse or obscene language, or a vicious or slanderous attack on someone. I think you probably meant “spurious” (i.e. not a real or credible reason). Or maybe a “dubious” (doubtful) reason.
Or how about just plain “shocking” or “disgusting”?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scurrilous
Tierce is scary-disgusting. Enough about her.
I applaud any time the abortion industry tries to get people talking about abortion. They quickly lose control of the dialogue, and real conversation starts to happen.
Abortion thrives in the silence. That is the point of Silent No More Awareness Campaign. When women tell their stories and pain, all women (and the men who love them) listen and learn something.
When women like Wendy Davis and Merritt Tierce tell their stories — and try to make the pain sound painless or the choice look virtuous — the world is invited to look into their lives. We all learn from their pain too.
Hey all its my 45th b day. Choose life!
So when some whiny B has been coerced into expressing emotional agony over the loss of her child due to “choice”, the other side’s response is: IGNORE THE TRAITOR AND CHANGE THE SUBJECT REALLY LOUD AND CLAIM TO SPEAK FOR HER AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU MISQUOTE HER TO THE POINT OF COMPLETE ABSURDITY WHILE MAKING A LOUD COMPASSIONATE ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT HOW HUMBLE AND COMPASSIONATE AND LOVING YOU ARE TOWARDS ALL WOMEN WHO CAN’T SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES< ESPECIALLY POOR BLACK WOMEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE BETTER OFF HAVING ABORTIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO SELFISH TO RAISE CHILDREN.
And then claim that anyone not agreeing with you is at war with all women everywhere.
Congratulations, you are now a liberal feminist!!
By the way, being open and courageous and honest about the "forced miscarriage" some well intentioned fool talked you into "choosing", does not make you a whiny B, it makes you a hero in your own right and a freedom fighter for all mothers everywhere, and if that woman is you, the line for receiving the badge for defending women's rights starts right behind YOU! Your are my hero, thank you for defending mothers and children everywhere.
Before some one tries to sell abortion as a 'me'h' experience, they should talk to those brave enough to speak honestly about the experience, and you can usually tell by their story if their being honest with you and with themselves.
Feminazi’s don't want these stories getting out because they can't use abortion to exploit women anymore, and the only way for them to be able to justify abortion is to claim it's necessary for some women, and sadly that means shutting some of them up for getting in the way of that narrative infrastructure of creative enterprise which they have so shamelessly and handsomely made their fantastical careers and profits from for so many years. If they really wanted to save women, and to know about the after affects of abortion, they would have looked into it and shut-up already, but because for most of them the reality of it is just a side note or a side-affect, they offer it no weight or influence over any of the garbage they elicit to others. Their depth is made clear, in the clarity of their response to true emotional pain that women feel after abortion, and lack of due respect offers them no recourse to their lies or pathway to their one true ambition: money and power. If they really cared about women, they would… care.
A woman who was raped shouldn’t be forced to be pregnant because she never wanted to have sex to being with, … WELL, she never wanted to have AN ABORTION either… so providing her with abortion is the same as offering her a second rape, and saying socially that is as or more acceptable than accepting the responsibility of pregnancy the first exploitive third party placed on her and her child. Over a dozen states offer protections for rapist fathers, but none for the mothers… HELLOOoooo is anyone out there… REpublicans, can, you hear, me???
I agree Del. I am one who believes beauty is an inside job. Neither woman is ugly…Merit or Wendy. They may hurt something terrible inside. They really do need our prayer but both also must stop promoting abortion.
As I used to tell my heroin addicted husband “A real friend would never show you or teach you how to use heroin.” A real friend would say “Dont ever do this.” Same with leading another woman into abortion. Too bad my husband listened to his frenemy and chose the needle cuz the guy said “Oh man this will kill all your pain.” Well that it did. Hes dead!
“Hey all its my 45th b day. Choose life!”
Happy birthday, heather!
Thanks JDC!:)
I’d say it’s up to us. If we’re silent and they continue with these “normalizing” stories, they’ll win. But from the beginning I’ve felt the real pain and suffering of post-abortive women shared with tremendous courage would be a significant force to end this holocaust, so hopefully they’ve made a huge “tactical error”! Let’s not doubt for a second we have work to do. I’ve talked to a woman from Russia who spoke of her 10 abortions as casually as if she were describing 10 train rides.
heather says:
Hey all its my 45th b day. Choose life!
Happy Birthday, Kid!
Yesterday was our 27th Wedding Anniversary! (a milestone: I’ve been married for half of my life.)
Lori – I love nitpicking! You’re right, thanks. Will fix.
Heather – Happy birthday!
Navi, 12:46p – Good insights.
Congratulations to you as well Del.ţ Hope you had a happy one. And yes to the person speaking about the Russian lady. I protest clinics with a guy married to a woman from Romania. He protests much more than I do but his wife voted for Obama. The wife told me in a serious voice “My aunt she had eh 20 abortions and eh it never harm her at all. She killed herself but she was eh what you call? Bipolar but didnt have anything to do with the abortions. ” I was like uuuuuu did she really just say that?
Ty all for the kind b day wishes all!!
Happy birthday heather and happy anniversary Del! (I know I’m a bit late with it, but I just now finished my night’s work!)
You’re welcome, Jill. I glad you don’t consider my reasoning spurious :-)
I was just looking at the article about the abortion junkie Irene Vilar. I don’t think that book did well at all, besides all all the hoopla surrounding it. Seriously, who wants to read about someone having 18 abortions?
Let the “abortion without apology types” talk and shoot themselves in the foot. Aborting a baby because you don’t know who the father is? Great. Americans have lots of affairs but its generally frowned upon. Thats not going to garner much sympathy. I have a coworker who must have THE BIGGEST MOUTH EVER. I know everything about her, including the kind of birth control pills she uses. Anyway, she was talking on the phone about a friend who had an abortion. She lowered her voice and said “and she didn’t have any remorse.” The aborts have been trying to destigmatize abortion for YEARS. It just isn’t going to work.
What is with the NYT, HuffPo, Slate , etc? It seems that every other article is about abortion. The truly are obsessed with it. Its bizarre.
Phillymiss Ive grown to enjoy seeing you here more often and I love your comments. No remorse about abortion? Well if Ive said it once Ive said it 1000 times. I have a friend of over 20 years who is like that. She really doesnt have any remorse at all.
Put the legality of abortion aside for a moment. Weve had people on this blog insist that all post abortive women are hurting and there will come a day where they all shall repent. I beg to differ. If you went to a prison where people were serving sentences for murder you would have to go case by case. Many show no remorse. I was watching Lock Up one day and a man shot his wife and 3 kids to death. He wanted the state to speed up his execution. He explaind ” I have no remorse and Id do it again if given the chance.” They showed him working out and he was pretty matter of fact. He said “As far as the state putting me to death I wish they would stop stalling. A deals a deal. The segment ended and at the end of the program it said he had been executed!
Do you think Casey Anthony feels bad about killing Caley and lying about her father molesting her? Nah. Let me pose this ?? to people who believe George molested Casey. Why would you let him babysit your daughter? I watched that trial from start to finish. George and Cindy loved that baby. CASEY WAS JEALOUS OF THAT LOVE. Even detectives said while investigating in the home Casey pulled out a picture book of herself and showed the female detective. She asked “Wasnt I cute”?”I was just as cute as Caley.” Detectives said Casey seldom mentioned Cayle and wanted to talk about herself. She wasnt interested in searching for Caylee because she knew she was already dead. How she got off I will NEVER know. Shes a smug habitual liar. Way to throw your family under the bus. Im glad George finally put his foot down and said “I dont ever want to see her again so shed better never show up at my door.” I guess Casey has no contact with her family anymore but the Anthonys are grandparents again. Their son Lee married and had a baby.
Ty as well Lori!:)
Hi heather,
Casey Anthony is a textbook sociopath. She isn’t capable of remorse.
Sociopaths will at least try to fake emotion, such as grief or remorse, she can’t even manage that. Maybe she isn’t clever enough to realize this is what she’s supposed to do.
She’ll lie like she breathes. She’ll resort to anything to get herself off the hook, including trashing an innocent man.
I don’t believe that story about her father for a minute.
Hi phillymiss,
You’d think these great advocates of abortion would find Tierce a colossal embarrassment. She gets pregnant to hang on to an emotionally abusive man? His recognition of her determines her worth? Lady, try some self respect, assuming you even know what that is.
Hi Mary. Casey A is the female version of Scott Peterson. Fake emotion. Grinning at inappropriate times. Im NOT buying the molestation from George and Lee. Any normal thinking woman would never ever allow her daughter to be babysat by a molesting dad!
Is it really possible to “trap” a man through pregnancy in this day and age? I don’t know.
I have a coworker who told me about a scam some girls pull. These young women have more than one sexual partner so the tell the guys they are pregnant (some even borrow a positive pregnancy test) and say they need money for an abortion. Then they use the money to get their hair and nails done, go shopping, etc. U guess if you sucker in two or three guys you can make a nice profit, but this is the sort of scam you can only do once.
Hi phillymiss,
It may not always be possible, but some women will still try.
How pathetic to be so desperate.
She added a sob story, even though she had just said they weren’t allowed.
You appear to be having some pretty basic reading-comprehension problems with this story. Tierce argued against “repeating only the gut-wrenching, heartbreaking, terrifying abortion stories.” That means that other stories should be told in addition to “hard case” stories, not instead of them.
Del congrats on your anniversary. It still saddens me that my marriage failed but I just couldn’t stay with an emotionally and verbally abusive jerk. Some conservatives seem to think women who divorce are selfish and just want to be “free,” want big settlement checks or something and for some women this may be true but
I didn’t get much money. May 13 is difficult for me because that was the day I was married.
“Is it really possible to “trap” a man through pregnancy in this day and age?”
It never was possible to “trap” a man other than those who are completely ignorant of how babies are made (as in abused teens or mentally challenged males). Manipulate and lead on, yes. Trap no. Penises don’t just fall in by accident and everyone knows bc is not a sure thing.
My ex and some of his family members accused me of “trapping” him — the reality is he took off the condom and I didn’t argue. My ex also told our son that it was me who wanted to abort him when the reality is just the opposite. Contraceptive mentality.
Sex belongs in marriages that are open to children.
Happy belated birthday heather and anniversary Del!
My husband turned 47 on the 26th!
Ty Prax. Congrats to ur hubby. A Libra eh? Phillymiss im sorry youre feeling bad. A friend of mine just divorced after 8 years. They hadnt even lived together for the last 4 yrs. He lived with his new gf yet insisted that he still loved my gf. Shed had enough and the divorce just went through. She admitted she was sad but relieved.
Tierce should spend less time telling abortion stories and more time working on gaining some self respect. May I recommend a course in feminist consciousness raising?
I don’t know what’s worse. The sob stories or women proud of the fact they are so lacking in self respect that they will do anything to hang on to an emotionally abusive man.
Women trapping men into pregnancy? Yup happens all the time. I also know women who faked needing abortionn $.
Yes Merritt needs help. Probably is self loathing deep down. Its double talk just like every single feminist uses. We want equal rights and we want empowerment! We are strong and we wont go back. So Merritt is a walking contradiction. She chasing an abuser? The hidden message is I deserve abuse. They need to get off it and admit that they are killing their children which is evil to all. Its self abuse child killing and it hurts fathers. It hasnt solved a thing since becoming legal. We have child abuse poverty and infanticide is on the rise. If you really want to be a stong woman then give birth to the kids you layed down and made. Woman up and get the abuser OUT of your life.
Hi Mary. Ive always wondered if a sociopath was born that way or if its something that happens as you are aging. I will never forget watching Scott Petersons interviews and saying to myself….he did it! No emotion. Ive read 3 books on him and while Laci was missing he stayed with his half sister. You would think his main concern would be finding Laci and his unborn son. His sister said he was laughing boozing it up and complaining hed lost his touch when no man hit on him in a gay bar. His sister and her husband were becoming alarmed with his behavior. Not once did he even mention his missing wife. The husband told Scotts sister “I want him out of this house.” He already knew hed killed his wife and child. Why waste time looking for them? He knew they were dead!
Just like Casey. I never saw any real tears or emotion. Just good acting. Caseys mother told her she would raise Caylee but Casey wouldnt hear of it. I think she was using xanax to put caylee to sleep locking her in the trunk with duct tape over her mouth and drinking and dancing until she dropped. I believe that she either overdosed her daughter on she suffocated in her trunk. She then threw the body in the woods. Then her lawyer informed George Anthony that he would be painted as a molester in court. Perhaps George had lost his grandaughter and didnt want to lose his daughter to prison. He missed Caylee so much he attempted suicide. Im glad the family has disowned her. In Caseys mind….its all about me!! Me me look at how pretty I AM! Me! To heck with my dads reputation. Just look at me. She used to call Caylee “the little snot head.” Nice mommy! Shes a lost cause. There was a rumor about a month ago that she was pregnant. I hope thats not true.
It was reported that after Casey lied for a month about Caylees whereabouts and the day Cindy told George ” Caylees missin George Casey just told me.” George slammed her into a wall and said “WHERE is MY grandaughter”? Big deal. I would have done the same.
This woman is advocating abuse of a partner. Tampering with birth control and not informing your partner is abuse. It is lying, and it counts as rape each time the two had sex without him knowing she was no longer using birth control.
We don’t know if he truly was abusive first, but that’s no exception. She was trying to get him to be legally obligated for another person to “make him acknowledge their relationship”. From what it sounds, she was hypersensitive and crazy. He didn’t acknowledge a casual sexual relationship as a serious thing and in her selfish mind this was abuse.
This is who we are to trust and sympathize with.
Guess what? People make mistakes. That’s what I get from Tierce’s story. Is she proud that she had an affair? Is she proud that she tried to manipulate someone into acknowledging their relationship? I don’t know her, so I cannot and will not answer those questions.
The plain and simple truth is that a person’s stance on abortion is informed by his or her belief in regards to when life begins. If you believe life begins at conception, you will naturally be opposed to ending that life, ever. If, however, you believe life begins when the fetus is capable of surviving, on its own, outside its mother, you will naturally be unopposed to aborting an embryo/fetus before that happens.
No, bekkers. Unless someone is willing to completely ignore the science, it’s not possible to believe LIFE begins upon viability. How would the zygote, then embryo, grow into a fetus if it wasn’t alive at those earlier stages? People are informed by the VALUE they place on the unborn human life, not whether that life is actually a life. Sadly, many people value some human lives over other human lives.
No, it’s entirely possible for someone who is well-versed in science to believe that what you are saying is not true. An unborn fetus, which is not capable of surviving outside of its mother, will survive to birth only if its mother remains alive. My opinion is that this fact makes it part of the mother, as it could never survive otherwise. This actually is supported by science (it also happens to be supported by the bible, but no one wants to hear that).
What I find sad, personally, is that many people appear to place more value on an unborn fetus than they place on a living human being. This is seen in those who are opposed to welfare, medical assistance, etc. In addition, I have seen many comments on this board calling the woman in the article foul, hurtful names, and what is that but blatant disrespect for a living, breathing human being? Her morality may not be in line with yours, but she did not do anything illegal. She may have made some very poor choices, but she is not a criminal. Why doesn’t she deserve to be treated with dignity and respect?
Unless you can approach this with the clear understanding that those who disagree with you do NOT see a fetus as a living human being, you will not understand why they disagree with you. With the possible exception of my son, for whom I would sacrifice myself without thought, I do not value any one human life over another. I simply have a different definition of what constitutes life.
Sorry, but you won’t find any support in human embryology for the idea that the zygote/embryo/fetus is not alive before viability or that it is part of the mother’s body. The unborn human is dependent on the mother for survival, but is a unique human organism. A fetus is a living human being in a particular stage of development.
That is your belief, but it is not an accepted fact. Various sources, from scientists to the bible (in the old testament, for example, the penalty for murder was death, but a man who caused a pregnant woman to miscarry was only required to pay a fine to her husband for causing the injury), do support that being dependent on the mother for life technically makes it part of the mother. However, there is no agreement in medicine, science, or religion as to when the fetus is a living person.
My point is still that you cannot have a discussion with someone who is pro-choice unless you first respect them as human beings, with beliefs they hold to as strongly as you hold to yours. The youngest preemie to survive was 21 weeks old, and because of that I would not personally condone abortion beyond 20 weeks, unless the mother’s life was in danger.
When I was a teenager, my mother’s best friend had to have an abortion, as she had kidney disease and would never have survived. She never really recovered from the experience, as she and her husband had always wanted children. So, I understand that abortion can be a traumatizing experience, but it isn’t always.
A close friend of mine is bipolar, and her condition is severe when not carefully, medically controlled. As such, she had an IUD, and she had an abortion only a few days after finding out that she somehow got pregnant anyway. After that, she was surgically sterilized so that it couldn’t happen again. She has never regretted her actions. It is possible that the presence of her IUD may have caused a miscarriage, as it couldn’t simply be removed without causing one. Beyond that, she did not want a child, would have had to go off her medication, and for her own safety would have required constant supervision for her entire pregnancy. Through all of this, her fiance supported her decision, but the people at the clinic who shouted at her, calling her a whore and a murderer, well… those people’s opinions never mattered in the least.
These are simply the kind of things I want people to be aware of. Cherry-picking stories of women whose behavior was irresponsible, and then shaming them for being human and fallible, is needlessly judgmental, and it does not paint a clear picture of the issue.
That is your belief, but it is not an accepted fact. Various sources, from scientists to the bible (in the old testament, for example, the penalty for murder was death, but a man who caused a pregnant woman to miscarry was only required to pay a fine to her husband for causing the injury), do support that being dependent on the mother for life technically makes it part of the mother.
I’m curious to know why you think science supports the claim that the fetus is part of the mother (rather than a distinct individual) before viability. There are a number of problems with it. Firstly, the question of whether the fetus can survive outside the mother depends on the neonatal care technologies we have available. A 30-week fetus is almost always viable in 2014, but would never be viable in 1900 (or today, in some poor countries). It’s not unreasonable to think that 100 years from now, we’ll be able to save fetuses born earlier (at 16 weeks, or at 12 weeks, or at 6 weeks). So to be consistent, you’d have to say that a fetus at 30-weeks in 2014 is a living person but a fetus at 30-weeks in 1900 is part of the mother. This seems wrong. Secondly, conjoined twins share organs and depend on each other for survival but they’re still considered living human beings. Finally, a tapeworm depends on its host for survival but isn’t part of the host (we don’t and shouldn’t treat fetuses the same way as tapeworms, but it still illustrates that living inside and being dependent on someone doesn’t make you a part of them).
As for the Old Testament passage (Exodus 21:22-25), it only says that a fine is imposed if the child (the original text calls it a child) is born prematurely. There is no reason to assume the fetus dies. If further injuries occur, then the penalty is eye for eye, etc. It is not unreasonable to assume this applies to both mother and child. You would need to demonstrate otherwise to prove that this text supports your argument.
However, there is no agreement in medicine, science, or religion as to when the fetus is a living person.
There is agreement that a distinct, whole human organism is formed at fertilization. See, for example, Human Embryology & Teratology:
Alan Guttmacher, former president of Planned Parenthood and founder of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, said the same thing as early as 1933 in his book Life in the Making (emphasis added):
There is indeed disagreement on when the fetus becomes a person (ie a subject of rights), and there are sophisticated challenges to the pro-life position here. But at least at first glance, it seems problematic to say that some humans have rights and some don’t. Every time we’ve gone against human equality, we were eventually forced to admit we were wrong. If there’s disagreement, it doesn’t follow that nobody is right.
My point is still that you cannot have a discussion with someone who is pro-choice unless you first respect them as human beings, with beliefs they hold to as strongly as you hold to yours. The youngest preemie to survive was 21 weeks old, and because of that I would not personally condone abortion beyond 20 weeks, unless the mother’s life was in danger.
I definitely agree on the first point. It’s sometimes hard not to be disrespectful or snarky (and I’m far from perfect on this, though trying to improve) but it’s very important. For clarification, are you saying you’d agree with making abortions illegal after 20 weeks (except to save the mother’s life)?
So, I understand that abortion can be a traumatizing experience, but it isn’t always.
That’s true, and there are several other commenters on this blog who will agree there. Doesn’t really affect the case for making it illegal though.