Do deaths from legal abortion matter to pro-choicers?
by Kelli
Click photo to enlarge…
Exactly who perpetrated the fatal abortion doesn’t seem to pique the interest of those who want to hang her death around her distant-relative-by-marriage’s neck.
What I find particularly fascinating is that amid the obsession over Ann Keenan (obsession likely to arise again should [Mitt] Romney aim again for the White House) there is a blithe obliviousness of “safe and legal” abortion deaths.
In fact, one politician — Margo Davidson, a Democrat and Pennsylvania State Representative — lost her support from Planned Parenthood after going public about how her cousin, Semika Shaw, died a wretched death after an abortion by notorious Philadelphia abortionist Kermit Gosnell. This is going beyond merely ignoring safe-n-legal abortion deaths and into the realm of punishing the survivors.
Is it really women’s deaths that bother abortion-rights activists so much, or is it something else?
~ Christina Dunigan, reflecting on abortion advocates’ lack of concern for women dying from legal abortions, “Which Abortion Deaths Matter?,” Real Choice, October 8
Note: Recall Gosnell’s gruesome operation was “only caught by accident, when police raided his offices to seize evidence of his illegal prescription selling,” not thanks to abortion clinic inspections or regulations.
Here is Semika’s story:
3801 Lancaster: Rep. Margo Davidson from 3801Lancaster on Vimeo.
[Meme via Real Choice]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Nope. They only care about their agenda and unresolved guilt. I had an abortion. It freed up my life. I got to complete college. I never gained weight. Insert EXCUSE. Excuses are like opinions. You know the saying..every woman has an excuse for aborting and I have yet to hear a good one. I got pregnant at a terrible time in my life. An abusive boyfriend. Abortion crossed my mind but it crossed right back out. My maternal instinct kicked in to protect that baby. Once the shock of it all wore off I accepted life on lifes terms. God obviously has a plan for my son. God saved me from choosing abortion because he knew I wouldnt have been able to live with regret. My son is now 22 but when he was born I loved my little guy.
Ive met plenty of the cold fish or matter of fact types about their abortions. The women who want to cry about regret get my full attention help and sympathy. I had a friend who cried to me she wanted an abortion because she had cheated on her boyfriend. I told her not to do it and had a heart to heart talk with her. She did it in haste and told me although they put her to sleep she awakened crying her heart out. Why? Because a part of her heart died that day. Then we became pregnant at the same time! She became pregnant from her boyfriend a few months later. At 5 months she developed a condition called HELPP (gotta double check that ) something with the platlets dropping. Well hers did and they performed an emergency c section or she would have died. Little Austin lived 5 hours and passed away. She cried to me Heather I never should have had an abortion. I should have listened to you. God punished me when Austin died I just know he did. I listened. I gave her my love and support and told her God will forgive you if you ask. Then we got pregnant at the same time. Also her son and my daughter have the same birthday. We were hugging happy jumping up and down. I really loved her. She told me No more abortions. Never again. She had a baby girl Hailey April 14th and I had little Jacob April 20th.
I goofed in my above post. We became pregnant at the same time AFTER the death of Austin. I know God loves us but I also know we are punished for sin. Why did Austin die? I cant answer that. But do pro aborts really give a rats a** that a friend called sobbing believing God was punishing her for a prior abortion? No woman should ever have to feel that way. I did tell her to try to use her abortion to teach others not to make the same mistake she did. She kept her word telling another woman not to because she had. I also pointed her to healing groups.
To clear up confusion…she had a living son prior to the abortion. My daughter and her son were both born April 19th. We became fast friends after that.
The pro-abortion rhetoric is not our main concern. Of course, they can be dangerous and we need to keep an eye on them. But their message is not gaining traction with the public.
We need to stick to our message.
1) Abortion kills a child. Every woman who chooses abortion has to live with that reality for the rest of her life.
2) Abortion hurts women. Average 10 women per year die from direct complications due to legal abortion. Emotional scars, drug & alcohol abuse, suicide. Keep telling real-life stories of post-abortive women.
Also physical scars, infertility, premature births due weakened cervix. Long-term cancer risks.
3) The abortion industry is nasty. They only care about taking money from desperate women. They don’t care about safety, or medical standards, or helping women.
Legal Abortion is not safe abortion. The abortion industry does not love women; they don’t want to see you again until you have money for another abortion.
4) On the other hand, pro-life Care Centers offer long-term help and care — for free. We do not exist to take money from women. We are here for women long-term — at crisis, throughout pregnancy and birth, and well into establishing life with baby. We help with healthcare, shelter, job-finding assistance, parenting skills… you name it.
Let the pro-borts sputter about our stories and try to refute our facts.
Let the court of public opinion decide who is telling the truth.
I always get a kick out of Heather’s 4-poster stories.
Click the LIKE button here if you enjoy Heather’s stories!
To answer the abortion advocates directly, let us remind them of Tonya Reaves — who bled to death in 2012 after a legal abortion at Planned Parenthood in Chicago.
If Mitt Romney wants his sister-in-law to die again, then Planned Parenthood wants unrestricted opportunities to kill again.
Legalization has not saved women from death by abortion.
We must move forward toward saving women and children from abortionists and those who pressure women toward abortion.
Why ty Del:) Glad you enjoy them.
And Del Lakisha Wilson traveled from Columbus to Cleveland for a late term abortion. She was 22 years old and 22 weeks pregnant. She died in the OR at Preterm April of 2014.
The meme is correct in the very first sentence, at least.
“I died because of a botched abortion”.
A botched abortion….whether legal or illegal is still a BOTCHED ABORTION.
The butchers just moved from the “back alley” to a front office.
There’s no magic trick that suddenly changes a legal abortion to a SAFE one.
Abortion is not SAFE…period.
“I died because of a botched abortion.”
One could also put a picture of an unborn child above this sentence.
Ty to all of my supporters. Love to you all. Do women from NOW or NARAL ever look at the site Cemetery of Choice? I doubt it!
They are all liars too. Theyve exploited Becky Bell for years. Becky was 17 and did indeed become pregnant from her brothers friend. A doctor confirmed pregnancy and Becky told her friend Heather “I hate this baby. Itþis from satan”!!! Eeesh. She wanted an an abortion but Indiana had the parental consent law. She was going to go to another state for an abortion and Heather was going to accompany her. Anyway Becky became sick but did not want to see a doctor for fear her parents would find out she was pregnant. Beckys dad had just gotten over the flu so she asked her mom to just give her some Tylenol. Her mom did so but Becky began to detereorate. Finally she began to bleed vaginally and told her mom with happiness shed started her period. Her mom found this odd because Becky had always hated her periods. I guess they were quite painful. Her cramps made her sick. I guess Becky agreed to go to the hospital assuming she was no longer pregnant. And her temp was 103° Anyway by the time the Bells got Becky to the ER she was critical. Doctors and nurses swarmed her room to administer care. She was slipping away. She said to her parents “Mom and dad I love you.” She coded and doctors were not able to save her. An autopsy was done and Beckys cause of death was pneumonia. The same pneumonia that killed Jim Henson from the Muppets. Dr Bernard Nathanson reviewed the autopsy and the coroner marked spontaneous abortion wh
Part 2 That means Becky miscarried her pregnancy. She had become septic which doctors agreed probably caused the miscarriage. Well the Bells saw the word abortion and fought to change parental consent laws for teens. The coroner noted the ureus was smoothe and glistening. Even Beckys friend Heather said her friends legal abortion appt was a week away socwhy would she get an illegal abortion? 3 medical experts said she dies from pneumonia. Her autopsy is on line. Rebecca Suzanne Bell. So pro aborts just used her as the abortion poster girl. Forget facts!
Sorry my phone and typos are getting worse. Cant eait to get my computer ….its so hard to go back and correct spelling. So bear with me please.
Let me try to correct my middle post. 3 Medical experts..including Dr Bernard Nathanson all stated cause of death was pneumonia and sepsis. The miscarriage just happened as a result of Becky being critically ill. An abortion was never performed. NOW and Naral put the parents in the finest hotels and rolled out the red carpet to use Becky to further their agenda. Becky died in 1988.
“One could also put a picture of an unborn child above this sentence.”
You could also leave out the word “botched” and it would still remain accurate.
“Abortion kills a child” – no, that would be infanticide. Abortion terminates a fetus.
“Every woman who chooses abortion has to live with that reality for the rest of her life” – and 98.7% live with it qualm free.
“Abortion hurts women. Average 10 women per year die from direct complications due to legal abortion” – since abortion has the lower mortality rate we’d better advise that full-term delivery hurts many more.
“Emotional scars, drug & alcohol abuse, suicide. Keep telling real-life stories of post-abortive women” – no proven causal link.
“Also physical scars, infertility, premature births due weakened cervix” – better stop anything and everything else which can do so too then huh.
“Long-term cancer risks” – such as?
“The abortion industry is nasty” – no, that would be the groups and their grovelling politicians who feel they have the right to dictate the lives of others.
“They only care about taking money from desperate women. They don’t care about safety, or medical standards, or helping women” – baseless propaganda.
“Legal Abortion is not safe abortion” – it’s as safe as medical procedures of a similar complexity.
“The abortion industry does not love women; they don’t want to see you again until you have money for another abortion” – no? How about the myriad of other services they provide.
“On the other hand, pro-life Care Centers offer long-term help and care — for free” – long-term? Until the child reaches 18?
“We do not exist to take money from women” – because you’re on a crusade, not providing medical services.
“Let the pro-borts sputter about our stories and try to refute our facts” – I look up the page and I can see where the ‘sputter’ lies. I see very few facts requiring refuting.
“Let the court of public opinion decide who is telling the truth” – it has and it will continue to do so
“Abortion is not SAFE…period” – and yet the mortality rate is lower than for full-term deliveries!
Reality aka as Tenn And Tenn 2 why did you have to come back. It was great without you. You have serious problems hanging around pro life blogs and walking around nude. Your posts make no sense at all. All you do is ramble. Get a life. I dont hang out at pro choice blogs. Like seriously what is wrong with you??
Ah heather, still persisting in repeating your mistakes I see. What is your problem with me sometimes being nude in the privacy of my own home? Do your shower with your clothes on? For you to claim that my posts make no sense or ramble is an absolute hoot! I have a very fine life thank you, how about you? What would you have to contribute to a pro-choice blog? Nothing wrong with me, the problem seems to be your inability to accept the truth and your constant failure to provide any evidence for your little tales.
Seriously Reality, there is no causal link between abortion and emotional scars, addiction and suicide? Your post claims 98.7 percent live qualm free. Using your own figures then do the 1.3 percent not matter at all? Are these women and their sadness and anguish nothing to you?
Reading your comments makes me so sad at times.
That is correct Sharon. Yes there are some women who do have emotional scars from having had an abortion (of course we don’t know the emotional scars which may be left by being unable to access abortion) but the attempts to link abortion to addiction and suicide are without foundation.
Of course the 1.3% matter. Changing abortion from legal to illegal won’t help there. How much higher would the rate of sadness and anguish be if abortion were unavailable? Addiction and suicide?
Sadness is created by the self-appointed arbiters of society who insist on trying to force others to conform with their view of the world.
Reality im not even sad for you. You have menal problems and its obvious. What is wrong with you besides the fact you are attention seeking. Your mind is gone. You want to use other screen names so that nobody will know who you are. You gave yourself away. Show me scripture about mudrer and gossip..pffft as if you read the bible anyway. Ive been waiting for a month and a half and you still cant answer me. Puleeze go write a gossip book and go away! You want to talk about the unwanted and getting rid of them. Nobody wants you so thats why youre here. Yet nobody wants you here. Go away and find a hobby.
Oh goodness me, is that how far you’ve fallen? Sad. What is it that prevents you from not repeating the same mistakes? I thought it wasn’t gossip if it was in a book, that’s what you said.
Poor reality, he can’t find any statistics to back up his claims about childbirth vs abortion mortality. Boo freaking hoo. So go ahead and resort to personal attacks. Some day, sweetness, you will find yourself in a helpless position and someone else will be exerting power over you. Much the way you do when you look away and allow an elderly person to flounder on your watch. You are a ghoul. A ghoul. Look in the mirror. There’s a ghoul. But, for people like you, there is still hope. Choose life, readers, its never too late.
Is it only your first point which is aimed at me or all the rest as well? Your change in method of address renders it unclear, you go from ‘he’ to ‘you’.
So I’ll reply to the first bit and await your identifying who the rest is addressed to.
Is it poor 9ek or disingenuous 9ek who ignores that the data is out there, always has been, and has been provided here on numerous previous occasions.
Why did Austin die? I cant answer that.
But your working theory does appear to be that God smote him.
Who here works in aged-care?
Lisa C. You are correct. I have no idea if the death of Austin was punishment. Ive been punished for my sins again and again. God didnt come to save saints. He came to save the sinners. Lisa C. I had a terribly messes up life because I chose to live in fornication and sin. I was on Depo Provera and I was chemically aborting my children. Ive had a failed engagement. Also I was sleeping around looking for love. Another man and I talked about marriage. He married someone else. The cycle of sex and broken relationships and my BC shots thtough PP ruined my life for a long time! Im darn lucky I didnt catch anything. Well now I stay blessed. Huge misconception about Christians. They are all goody 2 shoes and they think they are better. Ive done some things that would make you toes curl. Lisa C. Why dont you just give your life to Christ? If you do I promise you it gets better.
Lisa C. Sin comes with consequences. Idk how God works but I will say again..IDK why Austin died. I was punished again and again for 14 years of BC and chemically aborting my children. I was PC and I was a PP pt for 14 years. That was until I actually finally figured out why my life was so out of control. With sin came punishment.
Oops sorry for the double post Lisa C. Let me tell you something. I dont care if youve had an abortion 2 or 10. God wants a relationship with you. He will fogrgive you and forget your sins. Obviously you strike me as someone is here who might be looking for help. Every pro lifer here will help you if you want it! Just let your guard down a little. A lot of uscon this blog used to be Pro choice Lisa. Its your decision but come on over to the other side. pweeeze???:)
Lisa C please excuse the typos. Im on this tiny phone and it sux. If you say thanks but no thanks to my offer you wont be the first or last. The choice is yours. I hated Gods guts for a long time. He understands. I blamed God for everything. I needed to look in the mirror. God didnt love me any less when I cursed him. He knew I was self loathing. Now he is my best friend.
Reality gossip is saying something untrue. If women write a book and it hits a bookshelf how is it gossip? Just go read the book.Unless you are saying that Pc women are liars. Then thats on them for beinng liars.
Data? Reality never supplies data or links or anything else of substance. He specializes in verbal dehumanization. Because other than that, he’s got nothing. At least the fictional tin man wanted the heart he lacked.
This picture is how old? I would guess from the hairstyle and dress, maybe 1960’s max. Do we know exactly what happened and are there sources?
Does its matter if a girl or woman dies of legal abortion? Apparently not. How about a picture of Tonya Reaves? At least she’s in this century.
Something I’ve always wondered about the abortion vs. childbirth statistics…how do the rates compare when we are talking about exclusively healthy women? How many perfectly healthy women (no cardiovascular issues, hypertension, diabetes, etc.) die in childbirth? And how many as a result of abortion?
Also, in this CDC link about maternal mortality:
http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/PMSS.html
“For reporting purposes, a pregnancy-related death is defined as the death of a woman while pregnant or within 1 year of pregnancy termination—regardless of the duration or site of the pregnancy—from any cause related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or its management, but not from accidental or incidental causes.”
Abortion-related deaths are included in this, aren’t they? Or at least it seems they should be.
Hmm, I think I’m about to fall down a research rabbit hole. :P
Something interesting I did find was an article about risk factors for abortion-related death. It *does* suggest a fairly low mortality rate. BUT, what I found interesting was that compared to the CDC link I posted above, the CAUSES of death are different. Higher percentages of death due to hemorrhage, infection and anesthesia complications for abortion compared to overall maternal mortality, where cardiac events, hypertension, and other diseases are more common causes of death.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8648767_Risk_factors_for_legal_induced_abortion-related_mortality_in_the_United_States
Another publication has a table that separates out abortion deaths from deaths at live birth (though it does count miscarriage as abortion). Again, same results.
http://ape.med.miami.edu/Doc/Resident%20Web%20Site%20Articles/Maternal%20Morbidity%20and%20Mortality/pregmortality91-97USAobstetgynecol2003.pdf
I’m not medically trained, so I have no idea if that implies anything, but it was an interesting trend I found in 5 minutes of Google research while wrangling a baby. :P
Hi Kate and 9ek
Very interesting sources, thank you.
I can assure you both though that if Reality can’t prove Kate’s sources wrong, he will insist that since he doesn’t consider her sources valid, there is no need for him to offer a counter source and prove her wrong.
Put simply, I can’t prove you wrong so I will just say I don’t like your source and that settles it. That’s a favorite tactic of his.
Reality has created his own.
“I can assure you both though that if Reality can’t prove Kate’s sources wrong, he will insist that since he doesn’t consider her sources valid”
This would be quite amusing given that one of those was linked directly from a Guttmacher Institute web page.
“Reality never supplies data or links or anything else of substance” – that is not true and you know it. Sources such as CDC and data from other nations have been provided numerous times. The mortality rate for full-term delivery varies from 9 to 13 times that of abortion.
I don’t have a problem with the sources Kate provided. Rather I’m ambivalent about them. They don’t negate the data that Kate would find if she went a little further down that rabbit hole. And of course there is some variation in the causes, they are slightly different procedures after all.
“I can’t prove you wrong so I will just say I don’t like your source and that settles it. That’s a favorite tactic of his” – another untrue statement. Misrepresenting my modus operandi seems to be a popular tactic around here. I explain why sources are rejected, and it’s not because I don’t like them. It’s because they are self-evidently biased or disproven.
I don’t have the technical ability to create sources.
By the way Praxedes, who were you accusing of allowing the elderly to flounder on their watch? And how did they do so?
I mentioned before my father was involved in helping women procure illegal abortions before Roe. He took my cousin to have an abortion — she was about 16 or 17 I guess. I would also dispense medications in his drugstore to women to “bring their periods down,” or cause early abortions. As far as I know no one was injured or killed because of his efforts.
I am not saying that their abortion advocacy made them this way but my parents were very abusive. My mother was extremely physical,my dad more emotionally so, but he also liked to hit us. If we didn’t use our silverware correctly at the table he would slap our hands. He was very good at math and couldn’t understand why none of us were. If he was helping us with our homework and we missed a problem he would slap us in the face. He was always telling me how sick and crazy I was and how I should be “put away.” He also once told me how he hoped I would get lost in the woods and get killed. Ouch. I’ve had a horrible year. I went bankrupt and lost my beautiful home. I found out my son — who are they never liked or accepted because he was adopted — was a hardcore junkie. He was constantly breaking into my house. I found him sleeping in my closet and had him arrested. In a way I’m glad that he broke into the house because if not he would have probably frozen to death as he was living on the streets. My parents knew this, yet during this time they never even called me.
My dad is sick now with Alzheimer’s. I know I should feel sorry for him but I don’t. A part of me thinks he is getting what he deserves for being so mean.
My parents are still both mean as hell. But I am not a very good Christian and I guess I’m a lousy daughter too. I admire all of you who are so secure in your faith. Please pray that I can learn to forgive him before he’s gone.
Awww phillymiss im so sorry. Let me give you a call sometime. Maybe we can comfort each other. You seem like such a woderful lady despite the abuse and you seem like a good Christian although Ive never asked about your faith. I assumed. With all due respect about your son and the drugs I will not sat too much on Jills blog but you know Ive been there with a now deceased loved one. Im sure youre heart sick about losing your home. I am for you. You have no idea how much my husbands addiction cost me/our son. Every beautiful material thing we owned was gone. Also ik you can forgive. Harboring hate only hurts us. BUT it can be so hard to forgive.
Oh phillymiss, I’m so sorry! Will keep you and your family in my prayers.
I dont care if youve had an abortion 2 or 10
The actual number of abortions I’ve had is zero.
Well goog for you Lisa C.
Meant good for you Lisa C.
9ek and Kate,
Reality says:
“…I explain why sources are rejected, and its not because I don’t like them. Its because they are self-evidently biased or disproven”.
See what I mean 9ek and Kate? Of course Reality gets to make this determination, which usually occurs when he can’t dispute your source.
Reality,
Does your being “ambivalent” about Kate’s sources mean you will not have to provide sources to negate hers? Or is that only if you have determined a source to be “self-evidently biased or disproven”?
“Of course Reality gets to make this determination, which usually occurs when he can’t dispute your source” – the sites generally determine it for themselves.
I’m ambivalent about them because, as I said, they don’t negate the data showing that abortion has a lower mortality rate than full-term delivery.
I’m still curious to know who has supposedly allowed elderly to ‘flounder on their watch’.
Again 9ek and Kate,
I rest my case.
You might as well, it isn’t going anywhere. Especially if you choose to ignore the facts of the matter :-)
“Reality”, abortion is infanticide. Do you really not know this? If not, you’re not living in Reality.
“Fetus” is simply the Latin word for offspring. A child is an alive human from the moment of conception. There is no “magic moment” when it “becomes” a child.
phillymiss, my heart goes out to you for all you’ve suffered. :'( I truly believe there is a reason when people who actively promote abortion are abusive in other ways.
If one allows his conscience to be seared by participating in babies’ deaths, then it seems completely logical to me that abuse would follow. Jesus said that hate in the heart is equal to murder in His sight.
I will pray for you as you asked. I will also pray for your son. I also pray your dad will come to know the Lord before he leaves this world, your mom too.
Something interesting I did find was an article about risk factors for abortion-related death. It *does* suggest a fairly low mortality rate. BUT, what I found interesting was that compared to the CDC link I posted above, the CAUSES of death are different. Higher percentages of death due to hemorrhage, infection and anesthesia complications for abortion compared to overall maternal mortality, where cardiac events, hypertension, and other diseases are more common causes of death.
This is absolutely true, Kate. I read an eye-opening book several years ago called Blood Money: Getting Rich Off a Woman’s Right to Choose, by Carol Everett.
Carol Everett once owned a chain of abortion “clinics” in Texas. During that time she suffered great personal loss, as her work took a toll on her relationships. Her marriage ended in divorce.
She revealed many cover-ups which she and the abortion “doctors” employed at her “clinics” engaged in. They were very careful not to let a girl or woman die at a clinic. Instead, they had ambulances on call to transport them quickly to hospitals. Causes of death, or traumatic injury, or maiming, were never linked to abortion. The truth was carefully hidden.
“By the way Praxedes, who were you accusing of allowing the elderly to flounder on their watch? And how did they do so?”
“I’m still curious to know who has supposedly allowed elderly to ‘flounder on their watch’.”
Mods and others, I’m not sure what kind of game he/she is trying to play now, but I have no clue what Reality is talking about. He has specifically addressed me on this thread even though I quit responding to him/her some time ago. His/her comments are becoming quite creepy to me.
So Claire, are you going to broaden the meaning of ‘infant’ to the same extent as ‘baby’? I guess we can scrap the term ‘feticide’ then huh. Any other terms you’d like to decide encompass whatever you want them to?
Praxedes/9ek, pfft, two sides of the same coin. But if you say you are two different people okay, I can accept that. I’m not the person who enjoys repeating the same error in regards to who is who.
Interesting that my question hasn’t been answered though, by anyone :-)
he/she? Come now, how disingenuous of you.
You’re only finding MY comments creepy NOW? You have a good head start on me there then ;-)
So Claire, are you going to broaden the meaning of ‘infant’ to the same extent as ‘baby’?
LOL “Infant” and “baby” are synonymous. If you don’t know this, you are definitely not living in Reality.
And, yes, “fetus” is the Latin word for “offspring”. That’s it. You are a fetus because you are your mom’s and dad’s offspring.
Have you heard of Dr. Bernard Nathanson? A Jewish atheist, he co-founded NARAL back in the 1960s because he was rabidly in favor of legalized abortion on demand. By his own admission, he committed abortion on at least 75,000 babies, including at least one of his own.
Abortion to save the life of a mother was already legal in the USA, but he and his cohort carefully suppressed this truth in order to appeal to the American public for support for abortion on demand. They also changed the meanings of words and created euphemisms, greatly skewed and exaggerated illegal abortion stats, and demonized pro-life Christians, all for the purpose of getting abortion on demand legalized.
At that time, a prominent hospital in NYC engaged him to come and develop ultrasound. As he did this, he began to use it while committing abortion. When he saw the children in their mothers’ wombs, he realized for the first time that they were live human beings.
His conscience awakened, he made a film of an ultrasound of an abortion and sent it to every lawmaker on Capitol Hill in hopes that their consciences would also be awakened and they would take appropriate legal action. Sadly, they did not.
He tells this and much more in his book The Hand of God, available at Amazon. Anyone who wants to fully informed and educated about the history of legalized abortion in America needs to read that book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Hand-God-Bernard-Nathanson/dp/0919225012/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
You can also read “Confessions of an Ex-Abortionist” to see how he lied to and manipulated Americans in an attempt to gain public support for legalized abortion.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/abortion/ab0005.html
Dr. Nathanson reveals information here which many people either do not know or choose to ignore:
“A favorite pro-abortion tactic is to insist that the definition of when life begins is impossible; that the question is a theological or moral or philosophical one, anything but a scientific one. Fetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy.
Why, you may well ask, do some American doctors who are privy to the findings of fetology, discredit themselves by carrying out abortions? Simple arithmetic: at $300.00 a time 1.55 million abortions means an industry generating $500,000,000 annually, of which most goes into the pocket of the physician doing the abortion. It is clear that permissive abortion is purposeful destruction of what is undeniably human life.”
“LOL “Infant” and “baby” are synonymous” – so is “fetus” and “baby”, “child and baby”, “adolescent” and “baby”, “adult” and “baby”. You’ve seen and heard the vernacular haven’t you? If you don’t know this, you are definitely not living in reality.
So why does the term ‘feticide’ exist? What is its purpose?
“And, yes, “fetus” is the Latin word for “offspring” – very good. Do you realize how many words have latin roots yet do not mean the same as the latin root? Try looking up ‘fetus’ and ‘infant’ in a medical dictionary. Like this one:
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fetus
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/infant
There is a reason these differentiating terms exist you know. Or would you be okay with your doctor referring to your arm as your leg?
Any other terms you want to expand to suit whatever your current need is? Maybe we could refer to each other as either black or white no matter what our color is.
Golly, imagine an anti-choicer claiming the info they provided when they were pro-choice was false. Well blow me down.
He was also overplaying himself a bit when he claimed “I am one of those who helped usher in this barbaric age.” Abortion has always been with us and always will be, it’s just a matter of whether it’s legal or illegal.
“Reality”, are you a physician? And not only that, but a prominent physician who has been nationally acclaimed?
Such a physician said this. If anyone knew biology, it was he.
Fetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy.
Your euphemism “anti-choicer” is the same type of rhetoric he used when he was rabidly pro-abortion.
I pray your conscience will be awakened, as his was. That you will begin to really live in Reality.
“Fetology”? How can such a word exist? Such a field of study? What are they trying to say? Surely it’s all just about infants, according to you anyway.
“Why, you may well ask, do some American doctors who are privy to the findings of fetology, discredit themselves by carrying out abortions?” – firstly, they don’t discredit themselves. Secondly, they wish to work in a field that helps half the population.
“Simple arithmetic: at $300.00 a time 1.55 million abortions means an industry generating $500,000,000 annually, of which most goes into the pocket of the physician doing the abortion.” – you’ve got the data for that? Heard of the terms ‘overheads’ or ‘running costs’?
There is nothing, zero, nada, in your 1:12am comment which supports your claim that a fetus and an infant are the same thing.
I already live in reality, why don’t you join me?
Now you’re being dishonest. You asked me about ‘infant’ and ‘baby’.
However, your most recent post is also disingenuous and dishonest. As an infant, were you your parents’ offspring? Of course. “Fetus” means “offspring”.
A fetus is a developing baby in the womb just as a baby outside the womb is a developing child just as a child is a developing adult.
All of them are offspring.
Dr. Nathanson mentioned fetology. Obviously that referred to specialized medicine. Are you really arguing with a guy who was chosen by a prominent NYC hospital to develop the new technology of ultrasound?
If you want to argue with him, have at it. But you already know that his education and training were far superior to yours in his field.
Once someone has told you the truth, it is then up to you to decide whether you will continue to live in ignorance or begin to live in Reality.
When Dr. Nathanson saw the truth which ultrasound revealed to him, he did not deny it. He set about to make reparations as best he could because he realized what evil he had allowed to happen. He made the choice to live in Reality.
“Now you’re being dishonest” – this from the person who claims abortion is infanticide! Can you ever answer the question as to why the term ‘feticide’ exists?
“You asked me about ‘infant’ and ‘baby’ – I asked if you intended to broaden the term infant to the extent that baby has been. Obviously you intend to. Pity about that.
“However, your most recent post is also disingenuous and dishonest. As an infant, were you your parents’ offspring? Of course. “Fetus” means “offspring” – au contraire, it is you who is being disingenuous and dishonest. I provided you with the difference between the latin roots and actual meaning of words. Unless you are now going to start claiming that a post-birth infant is a fetus. Are you?
Are we still fetuses three, six or whatever months after birth Claire?
“Dr. Nathanson mentioned fetology” – indeed. And did you have an attempt at figuring why the field is called ‘FETology’?
“Obviously that referred to specialized medicine” – yeees.
“Are you really arguing with a guy who was chosen by a prominent NYC hospital to develop the new technology of ultrasound?” – no, yet you are.
“But you already know that his education and training were far superior to yours in his field” – yes. The problem for you is that he doesn’t support your claim re fetuses, infants, feticide and infanticide.
“Once someone has told you the truth, it is then up to you to decide whether you will continue to live in denial or live in Reality” – and like I said, I do. It’s obvious which choice you made.
“Reality”, I am not going to engage in fruitless argument. I’ll post Dr. Nathanson’s comment one more time here. If you continue in denial, that’s your business. Just don’t pretend that I’m the one arguing with him; you are.
Fetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy.
If anybody knew the definition of “fetus”, he did. He knew that life begins at conception.
A fetus is a developing baby in the womb just as a baby outside the womb is a developing child just as a child is a developing adult. All of them are offspring.
I agree, it is fruitless. Abortion is not infanticide. Check the laws etc.
You can post his comment as many times as you like. The point is that it demonstrates the differentiation between ‘fetus’ and ‘infant’. That is why ‘feticide’ or ‘fetal homicide’ is not the same as ‘infanticide’.
Or do you still maintain that we are fetuses post-birth?
You still don’t get the whole latin roots/actual meaning thing do you. Or are you merely pretending.
You don’t get the Latin definition. Of course we are fetuses — fully-developed fetuses. We are offspring, and the Latin definition of “fetus” is “offspring”.
Go argue with Dr. Nathanson. He made this clear.
Yep, latin/fetus/offspring. You don’t get that a word having a latin root doesn’t mean that the current meaning of that word is exactly the same as that latin root. So we are all walking, talking fetuses according to you. We’ll just scrap the terms infant, child, adolescent, teenager and adult then shall we.
type in fetus – http://www.babylon.com/define/112/Latin-Dictionary.html
No he didn’t, he said no such thing. All he said was life begins at conception. He said such from his field of FETOLOGY.
You can waffle about all you like, the bottom line is that abortion is not infanticide.
“paedo” is the latin word for child.
“phile” is latin for love or affinity.
Now I don’t know about you but I’m not going to start referring to good people who love children as ‘pedophiles’, because I know that despite it’s latin roots, it’s taken on a different meaning in vernacular use. How about you?
Reality: Sources such as CDC and data from other nations have been provided numerous times. The mortality rate for full-term delivery varies from 9 to 13 times that of abortion.
This is certainly one obvious point. Nobody is saying that the risk for women who have abortions is absolute zero.
Heck, one could walk to a store, bent on getting a ‘Duggar’ t-shirt, and get hit by a bus.
Kermit Gosnell, bad guy, but so are gynecologists who rape or abuse their patients. Doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t go to that type of doctor, have kids, etc.
Claire: We are offspring, and the Latin definition of “fetus” is “offspring”.
Claire, the fetus ain’t sprung off yet.
Yes, we’re all offspring of our parents. No need to get ridiculous, you guys.
Anyone who wants to know (key word) the truth about this can read it in Dr. Nathanson’s statement which I posted above. If you guys argue with him, you’re at a loss. He’s light years ahead of you when it comes to knowledge of biology.
Kermit Gosnell is (hopefully, “was”) a butcher. He didn’t just kill babies; women also died because of his butchery.