Stanek Sunday funnies 3-8-15
Good morning, and Happy Sunday! Here were my top five six favorite political cartoons this week. Be sure to vote for your fav in the poll at the bottom of this post! We begin with a reminder that it’s time to move the clock ahead!
by Walt Handelsman at GoComics.com…
by Steve Breen at Townhall.com…
by Gary Varvel at Townhall.com…
by Ken Catalino at Townhall.com…
by Glenn McCoy at Townhall.com (also see MarketWatch.com article, “Justice Department finds no evidence for ‘Hands up, don’t shoot’.”)…
by Henry Payne at Townhall.com…
[polldaddy poll=8709189]
Mar.08, 2015 10:47 am |
Cartoons |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Quick hits!
1) Beautiful day in Wisconsin – we broke a cold spell and have 50’s on the forecast from here on out!
2) Hillary and Scott Walker could dual off for the Presidency and we can just debate which one abused email power more.
3) Hillary still beats any of the top names being thrown around by the GOP. It will be HIllary vs Jeb – I think Hillary wins in a close one.
4) How long will conservatives keep trying to make Benghazi a political issue that it wasn’t?
5) I really, really hope and pray that out of the entire report on Ferguson, that isn’t the only take away conservatives and liberals alike take away. Between the racist jokes – the targeting of specific black people – the systematic oppression of the black community there – PEOPLE WHO RESPECT LIFE SHOULDN’T IGNORE THIS TYPE OF THING.
I’m pointing at people on this board. This board is the first to say that blacks make their own communities miserable by aborting their children. How about stepping out from behind the shallowness of one position and speaking up for the oppressed who are living?
6) Netanyahu’s speech was great – but offered nothing of substance that should be done differently – which is why it was a strong news story for a day, and has dropped off pretty quickly. It was a political speech for political purposes that gave some great history, but offered nothing in the way of a solution.
I’m voting for #1, just because I can relate.
I must make a confession-I would like this site much more if it weren’t for the pro-abort trolls.
“I must make a confession-I would like this site much more if it weren’t for the pro-abort trolls.”
You’re not alone on that one.
#3 made me laugh (baggage)
#4 too painfully obvious (sycophant liberal press)
#6 gets my vote. (Obama leans toward the demon)
It looks like Obama’s strategy for world peace is to appease the Iranians and Islamic extremists for the remainder of his term, hoping to avoid any more terror attacks against Americans. Just two more years, then it will be someone else’s problem.
Amen, Paul!!
Paul/JDC/9ek –
I consider myself more pro-life than the majority of this board…but if there is consensus that I’m more a distraction and you folks don’t like the debate – say the word and I’ll be gone forever.
Bwahhahaha. You are not more pro-life. You vote for the party that has supported the ‘choice’ to kill 50 million unborn children in the US since the passage of Roe V. Wade.
YES you are a distraction.
Yes we like debate but not with people who gruber all over us.
“Say the word and I’ll be gone forever”. LOL I couldn’t count on my fingers and toes all the times you said you would unscribe. Unfortunately your ‘word’ is pretty worthless.
Obama had no idea that his Secretary of State of four years used only her own private email server and not government servers. He found out about in the newspapers with everybody else. How much kool–aid does a person have to drink in order to believe that?
truth –
I’ve thrown out once before that if this was just a group-think site, and there wasn’t interest in debate, I’ll take off.
I’m serious – I personally enjoy sites in which the thinking is often different from mine – I learn more, I like debate – that’s just my personality. If it’s a distraction though, there’s a lot of sites out there.
Everyone,
Whatever you think of EGV, we have something in this country called freedom of speech. EGV has the right to express an opinion, you have the option to ignore it.
“if this is a group-think site”
There are a big group of us who do not support the choice to kill unborn children or public representatives who support that choice. We welcome honest debate; just not lies and gruberisms.
truth – I disagree with a lot of what you support – lies? Sure would welcome you backing that up. I know you won’t, and you know I don’t lie.
Thanks Mary
This is a pro-life site. If people advocate for abortion, abortion-loving politicians, or abortion-promoting laws, then don’t act all persecuted when pro-lifers disagree with your opinions. Stay as long as you like.
“I really, really hope and pray that out of the entire report on Ferguson, that isn’t the only take away conservatives and liberals alike take away. Between the racist jokes – the targeting of specific black people – the systematic oppression of the black community there”
Yep, but you and I both know that’s all that many white people are taking from that report.
I said it before, on this blog even, that though the Brown case may have been a justified shooting, the people in Ferguson are furious for a good reason. They are not just reacting to an erroneous understanding of Brown’s death, they are reacting to decades of oppression and persecution.
Inb4 people claim that the Ferguson police aren’t *really* that bigoted. And that things like being arrested for making a false declaration because you gave your name as “Mike” instead of “Michael”, or being thrown in jail for five days for one illegal parking citation aren’t that bad.
Or my personal favorite, someone can show up and talk about how racism towards black people is insignificant and doesn’t really exist now, but black people are still racist themselves (against whites). Some people certainly have a blind spot on the issue like many people who think we’re “post-racial” or that minorities are causing their own problems exclusively.
“Whatever you think of EGV, we have something in this country called freedom of speech. EGV has the right to express an opinion, you have the option to ignore it.”
The only person on this blog who can decide she doesn’t want a certain person commenting is Jill herself (or she can leave it up to mod discretion if she pleases). And thankfully, Jill doesn’t run an echo chamber and is comfortable in her beliefs, that she doesn’t need to silence dissent and welcomes debate either with pro-choicers or pro-lifers who have different ideas than the majority opinion here. That’s the main reason I’ve stayed on this blog for years, I appreciate that she runs it this way, and the only people I’ve seen banned are people who are consistently vulgar, cruel, and refuse to follow the rules of commenting. This doesn’t apply to Ex.
I’m a firm believer that if you want to silence someone who disagrees with you (unless they are refusing to follow the rules here like some banned trolls have), you don’t really feel comfortable that your ideas stand on their own merits.
You’re welcome EGV.
DLPL 5:30PM
Very well said.
You know, I live just north of the abortion loving city of Seattle in the true blue state of Washington. The reason I come out to this website is to read the news and to be encouraged. It’s tough being pro-life in the Seattle area.
I certainly support Ex-GOP’s right to express his opinion. However I do think that Paul T hit the nail on the head. I feel that as pro-lifers, this website is to encourage and inform. Ex-GOP, I think that you’ve crossed the line into personal at times. You seem to think that all who participate here must, simply must, agree with you in all respects. If we do not, well, then we must be ignorant or unintelligent.
I love and respect the members of Secular Pro-Life. I love and respect the members of Abolish Human Abortion. I don’t agree with all of their beliefs but they are my brothers and sisters in the fight to end abortion.
Many visit this site but not many actually comment. Could that be because they just don’t want to be belittled? That would be wrong. I’d love to hear many views. Yours included Ex-GOP. Just be kind, ok?
DLPL 5:24PM.
Everything else aside, a false “hands up” narrative was promoted, and that was wrong. Attacking and threatening an armed man, police officer or otherwise, is, I’m sorry, flat out stupid and a death wish. Black witnesses who had no reason to lie, and every reason not to, supported Wilson. Also, spare us this “gentle giant” claptrap(not alluding to anything said by you). The guy was a thug. That isn’t to say he should have been shot on that basis alone.
You will recall I was critical of Wilson and remain convinced he was asked to leave his position to avoid any further action by his superiors and why.
Sharon – and I actually think, with a few exceptions, I’ve been pretty respectful.
I’ll put it differently – I’ll say for every time I’ve dished it out, I’ve gotten hammered and attacked five times.
DLPL can weigh in if he thinks the ratio is right – I wouldn’t doubt it was 10:1.
I feel that as pro-lifers, this website is to encourage and inform. – I agree. Hearing both sides of the argument makes us better informed.
Ex-GOP, I think that you’ve crossed the line into personal at times. – if you think that then you can’t have paid much attention to what some others say to him.
You seem to think that all who participate here must, simply must, agree with you in all respects. – that’s not my observation. What I see is Ex-GOP pointing out when others make errors or serve up misinformation because of their political ideology. Some claim Ex-GOP is pro-choice simply because he isn’t an extremist conservative.
9ek/others
My issue is you have two parties:
– One party clearly embraces abortion. They also seem to do a better job building support systems for the statistical category of people who typically have abortions – what I mean by that, is statistically, those in financial hardship have abortions. I believe, without waiver, Democrats are the better party for the middle and lower class.
– The other party gives great lip service to getting abortion votes. They pass token legislation from time to time that might impact abortion rates a quarter of a percent – maybe half a percent (very hard statistically to measure). I also believe that their platform and behavior in the last 6 or 7 years will make things much, much worse for the middle and lower class.
So when you have babies and their lives are on the line based on their parents general feeling of support and ability to raise a child – and you have a party that seems to be going out of their way to make it tougher on families with children – I have a hard time seeing that their is a clear ‘pro-life’ party.
I can 100% see a great point of not voting for any politician period. I just have a hard time when somebody comes in saying “oh, if you are pro-life, you have to vote conservative”. Rhetoric over results…
Sharon/9ek/T/Etc…
A question for you –
If this site is to education and inform, do you believe that the Sunday funnies post should go away, as well as the other posts that are overtly attacking Democrats, pro-choicers, and some of the other mean spirited posts?
Do you feel like the Sunday funnies post – where I have roughly 80-90% of my comments – is an uplifting, educational gathering for pro-lifers?
“Everything else aside, a false “hands up” narrative was promoted, and that was wrong. Attacking and threatening an armed man, police officer or otherwise, is, I’m sorry, flat out stupid and a death wish. Black witnesses who had no reason to lie, and every reason not to, supported Wilson. Also, spare us this “gentle giant” claptrap(not alluding to anything said by you). The guy was a thug. That isn’t to say he should have been shot on that basis alone.”
Like I predicted, people are going to ignore the myriad abuses and discrimination committed by the police in Ferguson and focus on Brown. It blows my mind. I agree Brown contributed to his own death. That doesn’t take away from the fact there is something really wrong in Ferguson and this country. And the fact that people are crowing over Wilson’s vindication and COMPLETELY ignoring the abuses uncovered in the DOJ report is just… I don’t have a word for it.
The Brown case was a catalyst for the seething rage people in Ferguson feel over constantly being degraded by the police force there. It may not have been what they thought it was, but the fact is they are reacting to much, much more than that. This has been shown very clearly by the DOJ report. And honestly, I question the motives of people who want to disregard the report and focus ONLY on the Brown ruling.
“DLPL can weigh in if he thinks the ratio is right – I wouldn’t doubt it was 10:1.”
Sharon, I’ll weigh in and say that I’ve commmented here (for a while under my real name until I changed it, in case anyone thinks I’m making up how long I’ve been here) for about four or five years and I can tell you with certainty that Ex personally attacks much less than the people who attack him. He generally posts (at first) unemotionally and factually, then gets hammered with personal insults and accusations. Same thing with me, I’ll post ONE comment and get the weirdest unrelated insults thrown at me, lol.
If the Sunday threads are disrespectful and keeping people from commenting, it’s not solely Ex’s doing. And again, if Jill is unhappy with the discourse, she can ban him. But apparently she’s fine with it and the mods are, I know Del at least enjoys debating with him.
I think you’re letting your personal opinions on some commenters’ politics blind you to who is attacking who.
Hi DLPL,
I’m not ignoring anything, I’m saying the issue that was to be addressed was. “Crowing” over Wilson’s vindication? If the man was vindicated fine, let people crow. Wouldn’t you if you had been falsely accused? I recall people literally jumping for joy when OJ was found “not guilty”.
You can only address so many issues at one time. This one has been.
If there are other issues to be addressed, do so.
Thanks DLPL.
On Ferguson – I think this is an area where I like when people are more pro-life than conservative…more Christian than conservative – and I’ll further explain my point why I think pro-lifers should care about it.
The black community statistically has a lot of abortions – that is pointed out a lot on this site. It isn’t because they are more immoral, more evil, more anything – they simply are disproportionally found in inner-cities, and unfortunately, make up a disproportionate amount of the poor in this country.
So you have a report that details how a police department has systematically made it harder on the lives of black people in a community. They use them practically as a fund raiser – racking up fines and tickets. Which makes people poorer and more desperate.
Please people – connect the two!
Mary – I know that you think Brown was a ‘thug’. Did anything else in the report disturb you?
Ex-GOP is not a troll. I don’t agree with him and I sort of laugh at the “more pro-life” thing, but people call anyone who disagrees with them a troll. There are trolls on this site for sure but not that many among regular commenters.
The Brown case was a false example of a real problem in Ferguson and other places. I’m a little surprised that more conservatives aren’t talking about the abuses of government power meted out against the citizens of Ferguson (of all races, but disproportionately black people). The hands up, don’t shoot call to action remains ridiculous, but there is a much more insidious type of government thuggery happening. Also one of the votes for that cartoon should be taken away – I clicked on the wrong button.
EGV,
It not what I think, its on camera. He knocked over a convenience store and bullied the clerk. Is that your idea of a “gentle giant”?
I didn’t read the rest of the report, only heard of Wilson’s vindication and the findings of the report.
“I’m a little surprised that more conservatives aren’t talking about the abuses of government power meted out against the citizens of Ferguson (of all races, but disproportionately black people). The hands up, don’t shoot call to action remains ridiculous, but there is a much more insidious type of government thuggery happening.”
This all day, every day. This is an issue that conservatives should be ALL OVER. If there’s one thing in conservative ideology I agree with, it’s that the government shouldn’t use the force of law to abuse the people and their rights. I can think of a few reasons conservatives are ignoring the DOJ report of abuses, and they aren’t flattering. If a conservative can give me a solid answer of why they are ignoring it, I might change my tune, but I haven’t seen one yet.
BTW I missed you CT! I’ve missed all the regular commenters.
And Ex you’re completely right that pro-lifers and Christians should be connecting law enforcement abuses and poverty with the disproportionate abortion rate for minorities, especially black people (and Natives, though that’s not under discussion right now).
DLPL,
If you recall I was critical of Wilson. I was also critical of George Zimmerman. I maintain to this day that if he hadn’t played cop no one would have ever heard of him or Trayvon Martin. I have also argued that if it was Trayvon with the loaded weapon following George, people would have whistled a different tune and have been proven right time and again when challenging them on this point. I hardly take the stand that abuses are acceptable and have hotly debated these issues with many people.
I have argued time and again, and I believe its the point CT is making, that its gov’t interference that has destroyed families and devastated black communities. With this I am definitely in agreement with black conservatives. I read a couple of interesting statistics, and I’m sorry I don’t have sources, that prior to the “Great Society” programs of the mid 60s black Americans contributed up to 3 billion dollars to the American economy and that 78 to 85% of black children lived in two parent homes. Am I convinced the gov’t sticking its nose in our lives with its “good intentions” has had devastating consequences? Yes. Do I think the problems go beyond the police? Yes. Do I believe there are problems with the police? Yes.
Mary –
I would encourage you to read this brief articles – two pages. CNN and other sites also summed up some of what went on.
On the statement – I don’t personally call people ‘thugs’ because I see it as a racist term. I do think Brown was out of line and the shooting was more likely than not justified.
The report is on so much more than just that shooting.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2015/03/05/blame-sharpton-for-ferguson-if-you-wish-but-dont-pretend-rights-of-blacks-were-not-shredded-by-cops/
Can the people focusing solely on Brown and looking down on the protesters (people haven’t done that on this thread, but they have previously on this blog and it’s been a common theme in these type of discussions) please acknowledge that the people in Ferguson have every right to be upset and protest the unfair and abusive treatment they’ve received? And even though the Brown case wasn’t what it appeared to be at first and people jumped the gun, that pot was going to boil over at any day. Brown’s death was simply a catalyst.
And I really can’t blame people in Ferguson for jumping the gun on the Brown case, tbh. It probably didn’t seem like a stretch at all that Ferguson police would gun down an innocent man. The fact that it didn’t go down that way doesn’t change the fact that Ferguson citizens have a good reason for being suspicious of the police.
“I’m not ignoring anything, I’m saying the issue that was to be addressed was. “Crowing” over Wilson’s vindication? If the man was vindicated fine, let people crow. Wouldn’t you if you had been falsely accused? I recall people literally jumping for joy when OJ was found “not guilty”.”
People are happy that an innocent man was found innocent. That’s fine. But other people are frustrated that the verdict is being used to ignore and minimize the very real problems that plague Ferguson and the country at large. That’s the issue here. Out of that long report conclusively showing a huge amount of abuse of power and racism among the police, everyone focuses on the Brown case and has nothing to say about the factors in Brown’s environment that probably strongly contributed to what kind of person he became. I think that’s a tragedy. The DOJ report could open an honest conversation about racism and abuse of power, but people are using it as a trump card and don’t even seem to care about the abuses uncovered.
Mary –
So you seem to be saying that the federal government should have no oversight of communities or states when it comes to race relations? So if a state has racist police practices – it is none of the business of the Dept of Justice? If a state passes voting laws that disproportionally hurt minorities, the feds should have no say?
How specifically, is taking a single mother with kids and giving them food stamps – how is that destroying their lives? Are you of the opinion that if we treated people less favorably, they would work harder and better their lives without assistance because it would be more of a survival of the fittest? I don’t want to put words in your mouth – but that seems to be what you’re saying – so feel free to explain what you mean.
Mary I’m not arguing about the Brown verdict. I agree with you on that.
I maintain that a lot of the problem with black single problems, like I’ve stated before, is the criminal justice system. If black men are getting thrown in prison a third of the time and the communities are impoverished and drug-riddled (which a lot of the blame for the drug problem is due to the “war on drugs” which is implemented in an unequal way against minorities). I think blaming the single parent rate on social anti-poverty programs is short-sighted and limited at best.
And I don’t know a single black person, ever, in real life (not political pundits), that longs for the fifties and sixties. Ever.
Ex, to be fair Mary is like literally the only person I’ve ever heard call white criminals “thugs” as well as black criminals. I agree “thug” is all but the new n-word a lot of the times, but I don’t think Mary has ever intended it that way.
EGV,
I call people who engage in criminal activity “thugs” whatever their color, and see nothing “racist” about it. Perhaps you can explain why the word is racist.
EGV, I spent my childhood alone in more diversity than you will ever see in a lifetime. I saw problems first hand. I lived them. I remember when black families were intact. I remember safely walking through black neighborhoods. I had black teachers. Big deal. I was also bullied and harassed by a black student because I was white.
She was just as hateful to my Jewish classmate.
I also saw racism. I well remember the rumblings when the first black couple bought a home on our block. A black man who would eventually become immensely popular with the white kids in the neighborhood. I remember many an evening sitting on his porch railing with the other white kids.
I was told by a hairdresser that she could serve me but couldn’t serve my little biracial friend. Oh its nothing personal, she’s a very nice little girl, but “people” wouldn’t like it. “You understand”. Uh, not really.
I remember being in awe of the father of a black classmate. Not because he was black, but because he was such a giant of a man, at least to my little fifth grade self, and a…POLICE OFFICER!!
Reports don’t mean squat to me EGV. You know why? They’re written by geniuses who study in college and just read about what I actually lived. I could tell them plenty, mainly the more the gov’t sticks its nose in anything, the bigger the problems get and the more divided people become. I would also tell the “experts” on diversity that the best way to overlook and respect our differences, is to not make an issue of them in the first place.
DLPL,
Thank you, but please enlighten me. What is “racist” about the word “thug”?
Mary, people see “thug” as racist in most instances because it’s generally used against young black men. When I was still in the “criminal lifestyle” I was never called a thug, by anyone, even the cops when I got arrested for possession with intent to distribute and the other time I got arrested for assault. My black friends, however, got called thugs a lot, even when they were just chilling out. I think the disparity is that I’m a nice-looking white-looking guy and they weren’t. I haven’t really ever seen people call white criminals thugs.
That’s not even mentioning the other racist treatments I’ve witnessed. When I was a minor and got arrested like a million times, I rarely even got charged! Most of the time the cops would just take me home and release me to my parents. No charges, they considered it a family matter. My black friends have NEVER been released to their parents when arrested, they were always charged and put in juvenile detention. This is just another example of unfair and unequal treatment under the law that black people experience.
DLPL,
Thank you. For me when I was growing up “hoods” were “greasers” like my brother who was a “hood” wannabe(yes the future cop) so I’m inclined to think of hoodlums as white. I’ve also heard the term “gorilla” and “goon” to describe mafia thugs. To me “thugs” “gorillas”, “goons” and “hoods” are just that. They have no racial connotation.
“I can 100% see a great point of not voting for any politician period. I just have a hard time when somebody comes in saying “oh, if you are pro-life, you have to vote conservative”. Rhetoric over results”
Can somebody wipe off the big gruber Ex-RINO just laid on this thread. Notice how his comment above did NOT say that he has hard time voting for a politician that is pro-choice. There isn’t a violin small enough for me to play the amount of sympathy he deserves from people on this web site. The facts are that he been a mouthpiece fro Obama and Obama talking points.
Ex-RINO,
I don’t have to go back to show you where you lied. You consistently lie. A lie is to tell somebody something with the intention of deceiving and that is most of your posts. Tell me, do you think Obama is any less pro-life than Scott Walker?
Hint, One of them thinks it is ok to to leave infants born from botched abortions in soiled linen closets because they don’t want to infringe upon the ‘choice’ of the mother and her doctor.
So when Ex-RINO grubers his response all over us and tells us Obama is pro-life; will that be a lie?
Mary, the word thug has never carried racial overtones that I am aware of.
Ex-GOP says:
I’m pointing at people on this board. This board is the first to say that blacks make their own communities miserable by aborting their children. How about stepping out from behind the shallowness of one position and speaking up for the oppressed who are living?
Your pro-life cred is questionable, if you persist in separating the “children” from the “living.”
Mary –
I want to be clear – I don’t believe you are racist.
If you google ‘thug’, you’ll see a lot of articles of people saying ‘thug’ is the new n-word. Just the opinion of people out there, so I stay clear of it.
I still hope you read at least an article or two on the Ferguson police department – the racist emails – the beating down of the poor – things that I feel the pro-life crowd should speak up about. Other church leaders are.
truth
So your proof of me lying is trying to get me to say Obama is pro-life (he isn’t), and then that would be my lie?
What?
It is a lie when Ex-RINO posts posts on this board that Obama’s appointments to the federal courts don’t make a difference to the pro-life cause. It is NOT an opinion, it is a lie that results in the continued killing of the unborn throughout the US.
Another thing EGV,
I forgot to mention working as a naive 18y/o nursing assistant at a large city hospital and being aghast at the wards full of welfare mothers having their 2,3,4+ babies. Some starting at age 14. These pregnancies were very intended, the ladies told me so. Well why not? Uncle Sam was footing the bill.
As for states supposedly interfering with voting rights. How have non white people had their voting rights interfered with? I recall some Black Panthers standing outside a voting center intimidating voters in Philadelphia and Eric Holder doing nothing about it. Geez, didn’t the KKK do that??
truth –
Have I ever said that appointments to the federal courts don’t make a difference? Never said that.
You are slandering another person here – apologize and move on.
Did Ex-RINO just say that Obama is NOT pro-life??? And without grubering all over and qualifying it with interspersed attacks on conservatives or the status quo. OMG
Mary
Plenty of great research out there on voting discrimination and ways they are cracking down on rights.
I’d challenge you though to ask yourself why conservatives are pushing so hard for voter id bills, changes to same day voting, tightening of voting hours, cracking down on early voting – and remember that politicians don’t do hardly anything if it doesn’t help their own position of power.
Did Ex-RINO just admit that Obama’s appointments to the federal courts have had a huge negative effect on the pro-life movement?? OMG
truth –
Again, I think you’ve created a person in your mind and attributed beliefs to them – not me.
You’re too prideful to apologize and move on – so keep posting whatever – I’m off to do some work. Later all.
Hi ts, 9:08PM
Thank you. Good grief I better be careful of the terms “goon” and “gorilla” too. We all know that is in reference to Italian Americans.
Ex-RINO,
You just admitted that Obama is NOT pro-life, and you have admitted that because he is not pro-life his appointments to the federal courts have had a negative impact on the pro-life cause.
How then do you reconcile that with your statement that voting conservative doesn’t make a difference to the pro-life cause?
truthseeker, I really don’t think there is a single person who considers themselves pro-life (in the anti-abortion sense at least, there are plenty of pro-choice people who claim that pro-abortion politicians are pro-life) who thinks Obama is pro-life.
Hi EGV 9:14PM,
Thank you. I am not. I want it known that Americans of all backgrounds, races, and religions have lived together and can.
Also some background on the word “thug”.
http://www.historybits.com/thugs-thuggees.htm
Why would you oppose voter ID? Unless you assume that minority people don’t drive, work, own businesses or homes, use credit cards, have bank accounts, cash checks, or use the airports, ID shouldn’t be an issue. My 96y/o mother has an ID, lives in assisted living, and never misses an election. Also I work full time and have had to early vote many times. Never a problem even with my erratic hours. My husband can’t stand in line because of health issues so he always early votes at city hall. Seems like if people want to vote badly enough they can.
I think I smell a rat going underground…
“I can think of a few reasons conservatives are ignoring the DOJ report of abuses, and they aren’t flattering.”
I agree with you. It’s fine to say that Wilson was vindicated and he certainly was. But there’s a lot more in that report that conservatives should be talking about. There is no legitimate reason not to be talking about it.
And thanks! I’ve been busy lately, but I do read intermittently. I almost jumped to your defense on that thread about the NOLA Planned Parenthood Concrete Guy when that crazy commenter jumped all over you with his “focus on the SEX!!!!” comment. But that thread was too much crazy for me to deal with.
Mary,
I have concerns about the welfare state and the disintegration of the family, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that the report has a lot of evidence of local government power being brought down like a hammer against the citizens of Ferguson, and disproportionately so against black people. Even without the racial implications, the abuses of power going on – crushing people for minor infractions in the name of revenue collection – is something every small government conservative should be concerned about. It’s tyranny against people who have such limited means to oppose it in any way.
Haha, that guy was out there. I was pretty sure he was trolling (like ANY pro-choicer genuinely believes that the pro-life movement doesn’t focus on responsibility for your sex life hahahahaha, they usually accuse us of being meanies about that issue!). I just laughed and didn’t reply.
“I agree with you. It’s fine to say that Wilson was vindicated and he certainly was. But there’s a lot more in that report that conservatives should be talking about. There is no legitimate reason not to be talking about it.”
Yup. That’s why I’m suspicious about it. It’s like the perfect storm of government abuse that should have conservatives and libertarians everywhere freaking, but everyone just congratulates Wilson… Hmmm…
Hi CT,
Thank you for the clarification.
Ex-RINO says he thinks abortion is murder and would do everything he could to stop it and yet he preaches that it makes no difference to the pro-life cause whether you vote for progressives or conservatives. IMO a person would have to be either irrational or a liar to claim both of those things.
Mary –
I have to be honest – I feel a little stuck.
I’ve explained the issues with voter ID a few times.
There are countless articles on it – but you don’t seen to want to read articles I post.
So I’m just going to keep it short unless you want to guide me to what you really need – surprisingly, a lot of people in the US don’t have proper IDs – and a disproportionate number of African Americans. To require a person to pay money, or go through many steps do vote is seen by many to be too close to an equal to a poll tax.
Furthermore, as somebody who doesn’t like to see the government waste money – there’s little to no evidence of actual fraud that this would solve.
Again though – lots of articles and good info on the subject.
http://www.google.com
Truth –
I enjoy being called a ‘liar’ and a ‘rat’ on the same thread – especially after being told that I personally attack people.
What’s the old hymn…we’ll know they are Christians by their love…
Anyway – first off, you’re assuming that GOP appointees would be more favorable to pro-life legislation. That has been hit and miss.
Secondly – you’d have to say that the pro-life causes being pushed would actually be helpful in getting rid of abortion. That’s a pretty big stretch – I think we’d see a few states mostly ban abortion – see a lot of states allowing what is allowed now – and we’d see a lot of women traveling around getting abortions.
But that is even up in the air – I mean, one of the major 2016 candidates just the other day said RvWade can’t be changed as it is settled by the Supreme court.
truth –
It certainly does make a difference.
When you vote conservatives, I think a percent or two of babies will get saved because of legislation, and I think a percent or two will probably be killed because of their general policies – healthcare, welfare, etc.. Again – the percentages are pretty tough because statistics on abortion are getting harder and harder to find.
You’re so vain, you probably think this song is about you…
10:34 my thoughts exactly. Maybe if ex would do a bit of his own introspection, he wouldn’t fish so hard for validation here. As Leonard’s mom once said to Penny, “the locus of your identity is exterior,” but it’s never too late to understand the value and humanity of the humans that temporarily reside in a mother’s womb. Being pro-life has no expiration date: join us any time.
9ek
– I have three kids – would never have considered abortion as an option for our family
– Have never had a friend considering abortion – but would counsel hard against it
– Against the death penalty
– In favor of universal health care for all
The political choice is to maintain status quo for abortion, or get rid of 1-2% of abortions. If that vote is what you say defines pro-life vs pro-choice – well, I simply think that’s a terrible measuring stick.
Ex-RINO, you may enjoy being called a liar and a rat on the same thread but most people don’t because they are not liars and rats. Look at what you have said on this thread alone and it will show you that you are a liar and a rat.
First you said ” Have I ever said that appointments to the federal courts don’t make a difference? Never said that.”
Now you follow it up with bloviation about how difficult it is to find numbers on abortions and how voting conservative could save a percentage or two blah blah blah. Yours are the words of a liar and a rat. The appointees Obama has made to the Supreme Court and to other federal courts have done long lasting damage to the pro-life cause and the possibility of making meaningful changes to the status quo on abortion law. You do not believe abortion is murder and you couldn’t give a rats ass about the murdered unborn.
“The political choice is to maintain status quo for abortion, or get rid of 1-2% of abortions”
It is liars and rats like you who deny our generation any meaningful change towards personhood by spreading strawman arguments like you posted above. The long term damage rats like you and your lies inflict upon the cause of protection for the unborn is undeniable. Your posts on this site are a distraction, but even more than that, your entire life is a net negative to the unborn. You take pride that you never aborted one of your own but you also relish your strawman arguments leading people away from the fight for the protection of all unborn life. You are a mouthpiece for Obama and a progressive pro-abort sycophant.
EGV,
I’ve read your and all kinds of articles on this subject. I come to the same conclusion.
There are usually 2 to 4 years between voting. Elections are not state secrets. People have plenty of time to plan accordingly. Early voting is such and such a time, I can plan to go. I can make arrangements for someone to take me. I can ask my family, clergyman or neighbor for assistance. I can ask city hall if there are transport services. I can check the bus schedule.
Now, how in the world people get through life without IDs is beyond me, especially when they can obtain free IDs. If people want them they can get them. It also strikes me as patronizing and racist to suggest non white people, you know, don’t work or do those other things I mentioned. Probably because they’re mainly welfare cases and criminals, or just can’t be expected to figure things out.(sarcasm alert)
If things are this bad, maybe minorities should stop voting Democrat. It sure isn’t getting them very far in life.
I am troubled by this whole conversation. It seems that people’s filters are blinding them to realities.
For one — if a community has a corrupt police force, then they need to fix it. But if a black community has a criminal culture and a racial prejudice against police, then that is a much harder problem to solve.
For another — I do not understand the irrational faith that some of us put in our favorite political parties. The Democrats have been actively bad in their policies against American families… and the Republicans have been almost as bad in their benign neglect of real problems that need solving.
It has been this way a long time. Chesterton observed the same thing in England, a century ago: “The Progressives keep inventing new problems, and while the Conservatives insist on conserving the old ones.”
Our salvation will not come from Washington, people! Our government is too big and powerful, too remote and impersonal, to help us.
As to Ferguson: Let us appreciate that the Obama Administration did not railroad an innocent police officer for their own political advantage.
Remember the facts: A police investigation determined that the officer behaved properly in using deadly force to defend himself. People rioted.
So the DA brought forth a trial, and a jury determined that the officer behaved properly in using deadly force to defend himself. People rioted.
So Obama’s Justice Department investigated the evidence and determined that the officer behaved properly in using deadly force to defend himself. Let us hope that Obama has enough credibility with the rioting element of the population, and that they will accept this decision.
If there are no riots (and if the Obama Administration is speaking the truth about the Ferguson municipalities abuse of traffic stops and tickets as a revenue source), then Ferguson citizens can begin working toward fixing the abuses.
For my part, I actually trust that there were abuses. It might be the first truth to come out of this Administration. But some towns do abuse their police activities for local gov’t revenues…. and Ferguson got caught at it, with a racial bias to boot.
If the DOJ has time to confiscate Gibson’s fretboards why haven’t they confiscated Hillary’s State Department email server yet? Oh yeah, Obama just found out about when he read yesterday’s NYT; he somehow missed the reply to address when he emailed back and forth with Hillary. The only chance Obama and Hillary stay out of jail in 2016 is if a Democrat wins the presidential election in 2016.
Mary –
Bottom line.
We have a constitutional right to vote in this country. If politicians pass laws knowing that some people will end up facing a hardship and not being able to vote – those are bad Americans.
From a pragmatic level – we have a problem that doesn’t exist – there is very, very, very little evidence of actual voter fraud in this country. Anybody who truly believes that the best way to make the voting experience more honest is to arm elderly poll workers with the task of scrutinizing voter ID’s – I would trust that person’s ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Voter ID bills are meant to disenfranchise voters – period and without question.
truth –
You typed a lot of words – I don’t think you said anything.
I also believe you don’t know the difference between a lie, and an opinion.
I also think you put way too much trust in the GOP. The white house was the GOP in what, 20 out of 28 years? How did that work out for you? And of the R v Wade justices, weren’t the majority appointed by Republicans?
EGV,
One also has a constitutional right to own a gun, but we still have laws and they may well inhibit some people’s gun ownership rights. So repeal all gun laws, right?
You have failed to show me how voter ID laws stop anyone who determined to vote from voting.
Okay Mary – here we go:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/93-year-old-among-those-facing-voting-hurdles
Do you think it is fair to go through this process to vote in this country?
Mary –
Here are more stories
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/voter-id-law-turns-away-texans
Mary –
Do these stories seem reasonable?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/texas-voter-id_n_6076536.html
And on the flip side Mary – what is the compelling reason to spend millions of dollars to tighten voting?
If you can figure out how to get to a voting booth, you can figure out how to get an ID.
Good grief EGV,
These are bureaucratic snafus that happen all the time, especially when laws change. I’ve encountered more than a few myself in my lifetime. Very unfortunately this is commonplace with government bureaucracies. You should have seen the battles some of my relatives and friends have had with social security and medicare.
Turns out the 93y/o’s situation got straightened up and she voted.
When you move to a new state its a good idea to make sure you know the voting laws and perhaps a visit to city hall before election time can save a lot of hassles.
Hi Prax,
Exactly. Does an ID requirement stop anyone from flying? From the crowds and commotion I see at airports, plus the mile long security lines, I would say “no”.
Do you believe in poll taxes?
Or a test before you can vote?
Thoughts? Does Mr. McGriff just need to toughen up and work harder?
“Olester McGriff, an African-American man, lives in Dallas. He has voted in several Texas elections. This year when he went to the polls he was unable to vote due to the new photo ID law. Mr. McGriff had a kidney transplant and can no longer drive; his driver’s license expired in 2008. He tried to get an ID twice prior to voting. In May, he visited an office in Grand Prairie and was told he could not get an ID because he was outside of Dallas County. In July, he visited an office in Irving and was told they were out of IDs and would have to come back another day.
He is unable to get around easily. Mr. McGriff got to the polls during early voting because Susan McMinn, an experienced election volunteer, gave him a ride. He brought with him his expired driver’s license, his birth certificate, his voter registration card, and other documentation, but none were sufficient under Texas’s new photo ID requirement.”
It is republicans who are overwhelmingly pushing these laws. It is with the intent of creating a barrier to as many democrat voters as possible. The push is on for photo ID. It isn’t easy to get photo ID for free in all places. Courts are overturning some voter ID laws. If you look into ‘voter fraud’ the more common elements are of republican workers preventing or losing registrations of voters they think unlikely to be GOP supporters. Only those who support the true intent of voter ID laws deny that true intent.
Does an ID requirement stop anyone from flying? From the crowds and commotion I see at airports, plus the mile long security lines, I would say “no”. – utterly meaningless.
Ex-RINO, spoken like the pro-abort sycophant you are.
So quit trying to convince yourself that voting Democrat for president next election won’t make a difference. Quit grubering on us. We all know that the ONLY chance to help end the genocide by nominating pro-life people to the federal courts is through a GOP president.
truth –
It could make a difference. Maybe the court will get further stacked, RvWade will go away, and we’ll have patchwork laws all over the country, but the increased confusion and regulation will drop abortions a couple of percent.
Or we could see what happened like in the last GOP administration, Wisconsin, or Kansas – and the GOP could crash the economy and lead to more abortions.
So yeah – could make a difference.
We need voter ID more than ever to stop the horde of undocumented aliens who will try voting for amnesty.
truth –
Simply put, we’ll probably never have an abortion ban written into the constitution. I don’t really even see that as the goal of people.
So even if you get your way, which is RvWade getting overturned – we’re still left with a country of broken people trying to get by day to day and make decisions in their life.
The current path of the GOP – the demonizing of the poor and minorities – the higher hurdles for success – is just going to lead to more abortion – so as a person who wants to see fewer abortions – the GOP simply isn’t a clear cut path.
Hey – the Democrats are FAR from perfect – for everything I could list that is wrong with the GOP, I could list something on the Democratic side. I’m just saying it isn’t the clear cut case you think it is because the current GOP is just a really, really screwed up party.
More typical BS about your 1% strawman Ex-RINO. You are the worst kind of sinner. Worse even than Planned Parenthood, at least they don’t pretend they care about the unborn.
truth
You can attack me all day long.
I’m right, and you know it – it is why you rarely post anything constructive – or things that you stand behind.
You’ve bought in hook, line, and sinker and your ability to reason, comprehend the issues, and make logical arguments has simply vanished.
Again – I’m right, and you know it – and you hate me for it.
“So even if you get your way”
Another strawman about a fictitious need that ‘my way’ would somehow require writing an abortion ban into the constitution.
My way is to stack the courts with people who recognize the personhood of the unborn and then they acknowledge in law that the unborn are persons protected by the existing constitution.
“I’m right, and you know it”
No Ex-RINO, what I know is that ‘you need help’, spiritual and psychological.
truth –
Without looking it up – who said this:
“My job is to interpret the Constitution accurately. And indeed, there are anti-abortion people who think that the Constitution requires a state to prohibit abortion. They say that the Equal Protection Clause requires that you treat a helpless human being that’s still in the womb the way you treat other human beings. I think that’s wrong. I think when the Constitution says that persons are entitled to equal protection of the laws, I think it clearly means walking-around persons. You don’t count pregnant women twice.”
truth –
Again – you attack and you attack and you attack and you attack – but the attacks are always on ME.
There have been people on this board who can logically, nicely, write really good compelling arguments that I have agreed with.
I anger you because you know I’m right, and you seem to question or realize that you might have been swindled all these years. Take a step away from Fox, do some actual research, read your actual Bible, think with your own actual mind – and then come back to me.
Reality,
Please answer my question. Does an ID requirement stop people from flying? You certainly go through a lot more grief flying than you do voting.
EGV,
Do I believe in poll taxes and tests? Absolutely not.
I do believe though that AG Holder should do something about voter intimidation by Black Panthers.
Mary – sorry – you responded as I was writing.
Why don’t you believe in poll taxes or tests?
Ex-RINO,
I seriously believe that you have psychological problems that are causing you delusions that I think ‘you are right’. I know you have honesty problems cause you are always posting strawmen and lies about where others stand on things.
And may God rebuke you for bringing up the Bible as part of your protesting our fight to protect the unborn
Does an ID requirement stop people from flying? – if people haven’t got the required ID then they won’t book a flight or turn up at the airport. So yes.
You certainly go through a lot more grief flying than you do voting. – not if many of the republican voter ID laws become reality.
truth –
I’m saying that you don’t appear to know your Bible well – that’s all I’m saying.
Again though – another multiple sentence post attacking me.
You know I”m right.
And did you guess who had that quote? Did you have to look it up? come on – actually debate something we’re talking about.
EGV 8:54PM
Very unfortunate. Typical bureaucratic snafus and perhaps bureaucrats who have no idea what they’re doing. Certainly have encountered a few of those in my day. Apparently they ran out of IDs. Sounds like people knew enough to get them. Unfortunately the poor man had to make another trip but it seems an ID would be available.
The only ‘rebuttal’ you seem to be able to make to Ex-GOP’s comments truthseeker are slurs and outright insults. Nothing at all to refute what he demonstrates.
And may God rebuke you for every time you post your strawmen and lies in the future.
Very unfortunate doesn’t seem to cut it for me when we are denying the right of a US citizen to vote.
Again – I can’t fathom why you would be against poll taxes or a test if you’re for voter ID? IN all three cases, a state would be saying that is a further requirement of just being a citizen to vote – how do you draw the distinction between the three?
What do you think about changing the law to an opt-out instead of an opt in – no need to register to vote, all citizens are registered simply by being a citizen? And let’s make voting day a national holiday – and open more polling places, or allow online voting.
Why do Republicans want to restrict voting – any idea?
Look – I know you don’t make policy – I just think voter ID might be the worst conservative idea in years – it isn’t American, it isn’t sound fiscal policy, and it doesn’t even protect fraud, if fraud even existed!
truth
Third time of trying to get back on subject.
Who said that – the above quote?
Reality,
But apparently people who want to fly badly enough, myself included, seem to have no trouble presenting the required identification when flying. So it doesn’t look like the requirement stops anyone who really wants to fly.
I refuted Ex-RINO in my post at 9:34 Reality. Did you have anything to add besides your post saying I didn’t rebut him?
He’s not denied the right to vote. They said they had IDs and to come back another day.
EGV,
http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm
I think its easy to see the difference.
Ex-RINO, you want to use the fact some GOP judges do not vote pro-life as your ‘reason’ that judge appointments cannot make a difference on personhood for the unborn. That is a strawman. There were also GOP judges who for years voted to deny personhood to slaves but eventually GOP judges and a GOP president gave full personhood to blacks. If everybody followed your logic then people would have given up and voted Democrat back then and blacks would still be slaves now. Women would still be unable to vote etc etc. Why should anybody today follow your strawman argument about abortion. We will fight however many generations it takes while you and your kind ‘choose’ the staus quo. So be it. Everything you post is a strawman argument.
truth –
Fourth time – guess the judge…
By the way – was “strawman” your word for the day on your tear off calendar?
You’ve used it three times – you own the word now.
Fifth time – guess the judge…
“I’m saying that you don’t appear to know your Bible well”
I quoted no scripture on this thread. Any idea where that strawman came from? Do you even have control over what you post?
But apparently people who want to fly badly enough, myself included, seem to have no trouble presenting the required identification when flying. – and those who do have trouble don’t book and don’t turn up for flights.
So it doesn’t look like the requirement stops anyone who really wants to fly. – you see people at an airport and that means no one has problems getting the required ID? Seriously, that’s your proposition? That’s an unsupportable assumption.
truthseeker, that was no refutation. All you’ve really posted is ‘strawman’ and ‘lies’ over and over again.
I understand why Jill hasn’t banished you from this site but I wish she could create a thread called ‘The bloviations of a strawman’ and restrict to that thread.
Reality,
Apparently people who want to fly know they need ID and get it. Whether or not they have trouble certainly doesn’t matter to the airlines. You want to fly, you get ID.
Have there been outcries that the ID requirement denies people the right to travel?
Reality, you are a lark. If you aren’t being the contrarian then you repeat what other people say and direct it at them. Is that all you’ve got?
Apparently people who want to fly know they need ID and get it. – ‘apparently’? Do they? How do you know that? Maybe they realize they can’t and find alternative transport or just don’t go.
Whether or not they have trouble certainly doesn’t matter to the airlines. You want to fly, you get ID. – and if you can’t get it you don’t fly.
Have there been outcries that the ID requirement denies people the right to travel? – I’ve not looked into it. ID for flying is for security purposes. And for identification in the case of accidents.
According to your logic, if the republicans said people needed to pay a $100 ‘admin fee’ to be permitted to vote, you’d see people voting and determine that it hadn’t stopped anyone from voting.
All you have managed to do truthseeker, is fling mud. You offer no accurate information to refute the truth that EX-GOP speaks in regards to this topic.
“You offer no accurate information to refute the truth that EX-GOP speaks in regards to this topic”
Reality,
I had no conversations with you. You jump in 50 posts later with generalizations of inaccuracy and absolutely no quotes or posts referenced to back it up. Lame. Put up or shut up.
I had no conversations with you. – you haven’t exactly had a ‘conversation’ with anyone. All you’ve done is fling mud at Ex-GOP.
You jump in 50 posts later with generalizations of inaccuracy and absolutely no quotes or posts referenced to back it up. – I’ve sat here and read umpteen posts of you doing nothing but hurl insults at Ex-GOP while Mary ducks and weaves and tries to slide through gaps. Where are your quotes or sources? Ex-GOP has provided them.
Lame. Put up or shut up. – I’ve yet to see you put anything up. Lame.
Reality,
Let me make this simple for you. If people are at the airport and booking flights, then obviously they’ve obtained IDs, right?
That’s right, no ID, no flying.
I know what IDs are for. So tell me, has there been an outcry about anyone’s right to travel being infringed upon by ID requirements?
No Reality, I think you’re confusing Republicans with Democrats who in fact instituted the poll taxes to keep blacks from voting.
Let me make this simple for you. – you must have gotten confused. Because If people are at the airport and booking flights, then obviously they’ve obtained IDs, right? is what I indicated. And further to that I said “and if you can’t get it you don’t fly.” So it’s pretty obvious to say That’s right, no ID, no flying. because those without the requisite ID wouldn’t even be there.
I know what IDs are for. – I’ll believe you.
So tell me, has there been an outcry about anyone’s right to travel being infringed upon by ID requirements? – I answered this question. In English. Did you miss it?
No Reality, I think you’re confusing Republicans with Democrats who in fact instituted the poll taxes to keep blacks from voting. – which indicates that the democrats have progressed while the republicans have regressed.
“I’ve sat here and read umpteen posts of you”
Reality, Still nothing but generalities about inaccuracies that cannot be found. You are a waste of bytes. Here, I’ll give you something that you and Ex-RINO can join together in being contrary to.
Voting can make a difference and voting GOP instead of DemocRAT means judges on the bench that are more likely to protect the lives of the unborn.
Reality, Still nothing but generalities about inaccuracies that cannot be found. – so I see. Why not mention your mud slinging too?
You are a waste of bytes. – I’m not a digital device. Is that a problem for you?
Here, I’ll give you something that you and Ex-RINO can join together in being contrary to. Voting can make a difference and voting GOP instead of DemocRAT means judges on the bench that are more likely to protect the lives of the unborn. – well that’s the theory anyway. Depends how many come up for replacement and when doesn’t it. And who who’s available to choose from. And who they can actually get up. Did you answer Ex-GOP’s question by the way?
“f people are at the airport and booking flights, then obviously they’ve obtained IDs, right?”
Um, is no one going to point out that flying in a plane is not a constitutional right? And people unable to obtain IDs aren’t generally people with enough disposable income to fly… I have no idea what the fact that people need IDs to ride on planes has to do with voter ID laws.
Voting fraud seems ridiculously impractical at the polls anyway. If I were inclined to influence an election fraudulently, I would get people in the ballot counting to do something shady, not send people to multiple locations to vote. It’s not even feasible.
And what about states with write-in ballots? I live in a blue state, we have write-in ballots. How would you check IDs for those?
Reality,
Well looks like you can’t point out that requiring an ID has put a great hardship on anyone.
So you did catch on that people at the airport must have IDs?! Progress!!
No Reality, when it comes to suppressing voting rights, no one can come close to Democrats.
DLPL,
No, flying isn’t a constitutional right. But gun ownership is and we certainly have laws regulating that don’t we? Try buying ammunition without an ID.
I’m pointing out that we need IDs to do a lot of things or we will be denied, travel is one of them. Also you don’t have to be a multimillionaire to get an ID.
Voter ID is just a sensible precaution. Like when I buy bullets. I have no problem presenting my ID. I don’t scream about my constitutional rights.
You only get one write in ballot, at least you’re supposed to. Its addressed directly to you. Careful vigilence is in order, like making sure you don’t have a death certificate or that you in fact live at the address you have it sent to and that you are indeed registered.
Another thing about voting DLPL,
You have to be a certain age. You have to register. You are restricted to where you can vote and in what election.
So constitutional rights, like guns and voting, are regulated by law and denied to some.
Well looks like you can’t point out that requiring an ID has put a great hardship on anyone. – it’s already been well and truly pointed out. You can’t point out that it doesn’t put a hardship on some folk.
So you did catch on that people at the airport must have IDs?! Progress!! – I said such from the start. So I guess I progressed all I could at that initial point. Unlike yourself apparently, who can’t seem to grasp that those who struggle to obtain the requisite ID simply don’t turn up at the airport.
No Reality, when it comes to suppressing voting rights, no one can come close to Democrats. – not at all. The republicans are striving with all their might to prevent any potential democrat voter from doing so.
Reality,
Then call it a draw. We can’t point out that it does or doesn’t put a hardship on people to get IDs for travelling. Only that if they want to travel badly enough, they will have to get an ID…and do.
Yes I’ve noticed Democrat voters tend to be the hardship cases who may find obtaining and ID more difficult, if they even bother. Maybe they should quit voting Democrat. It doesn’t seem to be getting them very far in life.
Then call it a draw. – I don’t think so.
We can’t point out that it does or doesn’t put a hardship on people to get IDs for travelling. – do people need ID to fly? Yes. Do some people find the process or cost of obtaining that ID prohibitive? Yes. Therefore, some people do suffer hardship getting ID’s for flying.
Only that if they want to travel badly enough, they will have to get an ID…and do. – most do. Other’s do not. Because they cannot.
Yes I’ve noticed Democrat voters tend to be the hardship cases who may find obtaining and ID more difficult, if they even bother. – makes it easier for the republicans to know who to target and what impediments to put in place.
Maybe they should quit voting Democrat. It doesn’t seem to be getting them very far in life. – once the state level predominance of republican lawmakers dissipates people will get much further.
truth – give up?
Mary – plain and simple, anybody who supports voter ID, in my mind, isn’t a conservative. Spending hard earned tax money to solve a problem that statistically and legally doesn’t exist – and solving it the stupidest way possible? Doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, if it keeps any legit Americans from voting, supporters of the law are bad Americans – like some of the worst in history that have kept people from voting. Nobody can give an actual good reason on why we need to move to it – there is no problem it is solving. Seriously – try to tell me in a sentence (at work we call it an elevator pitch) why we should spend millions to implement it.
Reality,
You may want to waste time restating the obvious time and again, I do not. I think I pretty well summed it up.
“once the state level predominance of republican lawmakers dissipates people will get much further”. LOL. Sure Reality, whatever you say. LOL.
The only obvious restating I did was pointing out to you that I had already said something you were claiming to be informing me of.
Only those who support the true intent of these voter ID laws deny that true intent.
EGV,
Do you give any thought to what all your gun regulations cost? Do you know what it costs for early voting?
http://marylandreporter.com/2012/09/10/early-voting-costs-counties-2-6m-but-hasnt-increased-turnout-yet/
Yet you liberals squawk for early voting and more of it. Hey don’t stop on my account, it works great for me. Interesting that this article states it doesn’t necessarily improve turnout.
So do you plan to take a stand against early voting?
You haven’t shown me anyone who has been kept from voting, inconvenienced by bureaucratic snafus (unheard of!!) maybe, but not stopped. Sometimes its just a matter of taking the time and effort to contact city hall when you move to a new location to determine what the voting laws are. Done it a few times myself. Its not like you wouldn’t have the time, there are only two and four years between elections.
Changing laws often generate confusion and bureaucratic snafus. I’ve noticed that when I’ve gone to buy bullets.
Mary –
Let me say this as nicely as possible. Voting doesn’t kill people. It is a constitutional right to vote – so regulations around that shouldn’t infringe on that right to vote.
Guns can kill people. There was a school on the east coast where a guy walked in and killed over a dozen 5 and 6 year olds.
Downside of a failure to regulate voting – somebody votes that shouldn’t. Downside to lack of regulations on guns? Kids die, police die. Parents die.
So until you can figure out that guns kill people, and voting is a checkmark people put on paper, I would take that sorry argument and tuck it away. It’s insulting.
By your logic, we could have one polling place at the capital in every state. If somebody wants to vote badly enough – they certainly could. That’s a stupid way to do it. We should make it easier to vote for people – not harder.
Again – the compelling argument needs to be on your side. What has been so broken with voting that we need to spend millions to fix? Tick tock, tick tock.
Reality –
What happened to conservatives?
They argue against personal responsibility with Obamacare.
They argue for more regulations with voting.
It is an upside down world.
Also – fill in the blank for me – During the Bush administration, if 47 senators had written a letter to Iraq, conservatives would have (blank)
What I see Ex-GOP, is that conservatives don’t want government to do anything or interfere in anything or regulate anything – until they see somebody doing something they don’t like or don’t approve of (such as voting democrat or same-sex marrying)- then they jump up and down and scream for the government to do something about it.
gone ballistic?
Democrats have proven they are as cut throat as they need to be and as crooked as it gets. Obama would have lost Ohio to Hillary last election cause he would have been below the number of signatures required to be on the ballot. It wasn’t found out until Obama had already defeated Hillary in the primary so he stole the election.
We need voter ID more than ever to stop Democrats from rigging the election with the hordes of undocumented aliens that they plan to get to the polls to vote for amnesty by executive order, I mean DemocRATs.
http://www.virginiavotersalliance.com/democrats-arrested-and-or-convicted-of-voter-fraud/
Every Democrat, including Ex-RINO, is as honest as Lois Lerner.
to stop Democrats from rigging the election with the hordes of undocumented aliens that they plan to get to the polls – your proof of this? Evidence? Anything?
Hillary turned over all the emails she decided we should see and deleted the rest. I am sure we can all count on that same kind of transparency from her during the election.
“to stop Democrats from rigging the election with the hordes of undocumented aliens that they plan to get to the polls – your proof of this? Evidence? Anything?”
Well it’s simple, Reality:
– Illegal immigrants exist
– Illegal immigrants to the US tend to be Latino
– Latinos tend to vote Dem.
– Democrats haven’t shown any inclination to shoot or deport every single illegal immigrant
– So, the entire point of voter ID laws is to allow illegal immigrants to flock the polls and vote Democrat, with help from Obama personally.
Duh, you must be mentally slow Reality, it’s simple logic. ;)
“your proof of this? Evidence? Anything?”
There will be no ‘proof’ until after the election. What we have now is a history of ruthlessness and corruption that speaks for itself.
“So, the entire point of voter ID laws is to allow illegal immigrants to flock the polls and vote Democrat, with help from Obama personally”
No Deluded Lib, Voter ID laws will not allow illegals to vote. Quite the opposite. They will stop people (mostly DemocRATs cause they are the ones most likely to cheat) from lying and cheating to win elections.
I hate it when I ruin my sarcasm by typing incorrectly.
*entire point of OPPOSING voter ID laws.
I hope your tongue doesn’t get stuck planted that firmly in your cheek LDPL :-)
So you’ve got nothing truthseeker, same as usual.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9467
EGV 8:41PM
Let me say this as nicely as possible. Not the point. We’re talking constitutional rights. You may or may not like or agree with them. Our rights can be and are regulated by laws.
I didn’t say anything was broken. To me ID laws are just common sense. Very simple too, since most people have IDs. Isn’t there an age limit to voting too? Any reason for that?? What exactly should the age be? There can be a lot of laws we don’t agree on or we think are useless. Just the way it is.
BTW, EGV, do you support early voting?
Duck, weave and slide. The topic was voter ID laws. You have been busily trying to expand it to other areas and then turn it into ‘constitutional rights’. Why is rather obvious.
Only those who support the true intent of these voter ID laws deny that true intent.
I know its getting a little complicated for you Reality.
truth –
You gave a lot of examples of absentee voter fraud.
How will voter ID cut down on absentee voter fraud?
Furthermore, the first couple of names I checked on the link had cases dismissed – do you provide some examples of people convicted?
Mary –
I’m fine with early voting – I’m fine with anything to get each and every American proper opportunities to vote.
What is common sense to me is not fixing something that isn’t broken.
truth –
So you failed miserably – some education for you. You seem to think that we should all vote republican because they’ll put judges in office that will uphold a personhood law, thus declaring the preborn full citizens legally.
Scalia – he is a Supreme Court Justice – there are nine of them. Scalia is considered one the most conservative in the history of the court.
He seems to reject your argument a bit.
Are you hoping maybe for activist judges then who don’t rule by the constitution? Or you do believe Scalia is constitutionally wrong?
Okay – I know you won’t answer – you can’t answer – you don’t understand this stuff.
But again, you’ve failed me – you’ve failed your logic – and again, I’m back to believing the pro-life movement is more conservative than pro-life with no real plan here…
“Furthermore, the first couple of names I checked on the link had cases dismissed – do you provide some examples of people convicted?”
How about Acorn in Nevada in 2008, you know them, the community organizing group where Obama got his experience to become president. They were convicted of bribery and over 400,000 bogus voter registrations, Mickey Mouse was registered several times. wth..you couldn’t make this stuff up. If you are Internet impaired and don’t know how to google ask Reality to find you a link on it, that way I won’t have to listen to him jump up down about the sources.
I know its getting a little complicated for you Reality. – LOL, don’t you just wish. Pointing out your attempts at distraction and ‘massaging’ of certain elements demonstrates quite the opposite. The fact that you can’t even tell when someone has stated what you then attempt to inform them of shows where the inability to deal with the most minor instances of complication lies. Then there’s your tendency towards denial.
I find this opposition to voter ID laws racist and patronizing. Its based on the mentality that non white people don’t work, own homes, pay rent, run businesses, drive, have bank accounts, write checks, have credit cards or use the nation’s airports. Is there ever concern about these laws effecting white people? Nooo. Because we all know white people do all these things, right? People of color, well that’s a different story. They’re a bunch of children who can’t do something as basic as get an ID, I mean they’re all criminals and welfare cheats so of course they wouldn’t be likely to have IDs to begin with. Good heavens people of color don’t function in every day life like white people do.
You see folks I have no problem with voter ID, like I have no problem presenting ID for a number of things, because I don’t have the assumption you do, that people of color are a bunch of children. Unlike you, I see no reason to assume they wouldn’t have IDs so thus presenting one at the voting station, like I have to do, isn’t a big deal.
that way I won’t have to listen to him jump up down about the sources. – so you admit that either there are no valid sources to support your claims or that you can’t find them. Mimicking Mary’s modus operandi won’t help you.
Scalia says there is no constitutional basis abortion should be legal or that abortion should be illegal. He says that it should be a matter decided by Democratic vote. That is a helluva lot better and more reasonable for the unborn than the pro-abort idealogues Democrat’s would appoint.
Was Acorn ever convicted of anything?
Also, how would voter ID impact voter registration? That’s two different things.
If you want, give me a number and I’ll match it on articles, papers, and organizations that have shown voter fraud is pretty much a myth. Organizations have been devoted to trying to find it and can’t.
We can start with a conservative source – the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/
EGV,
So you’re fine with early voting even though the article suggests its hugely expensive and doesn’t necessarily turn out the vote.
I like it myself. But since you have such concern with expense, I was just curious.
Are you having trouble finding sources too Reality? Try google, it works really well. Put in ‘Acorn 2008 Nevada election fraud’ and you can take your pick of the references to voter fraud convictions. That way you won’t be able to dispute the sources.
Okay..now Mary has pulled the race card saying opposing voter ID is racist. I’ve heard it all now.
I’m reading that 30% of votes in 2008 were early voting – so that’s not significant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_voting
EGV,
I have to present 2 pieces of ID to get my money out of the bank account, even though I’ve banked there over 30 years. Has anyone tried to rip off my account? Not that I know of. Have I ever been dishonest with the bank? No. So why the precaution? Well maybe to make sure nothing like that happens.
I view voter ID in the same way.
ts,
Reality doesn’t dispute sources. Only the rest of us have to do that. He just get to decree them invalid.
truth –
So now you’re backing off your personhood statements, and now going with a different standard?
So New York, California, and at least a couple dozen other states will easily keep the abortion laws what they are now if it was up to the states.
So your great reason why a pro-lifer should vote GOP is because maybe rvwade will get overturned, and then we’ll have fragmented state laws and traveling abortions. But then we’ll still be in the situation where we need to have support systems and social programs that support women to choose not to have abortions…thus, my argument on why I lean left still stands. Am I missing something?
Short answer – I’m not.
Truth… that’s really not what happened with ACORN, at all:
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/acorn-accusations/
Mary –
So would you be fine with voting only allowed in the downtown of the biggest city in each county? Just have one large polling place for everybody?
You’d be cool with that?
Or how about only voting from 9pm to midnight?
EGV,
Hit a nerve eh? And you liberals consider yourselves such bastions of enlightenment. LOL. Not playing the race card EGV, just pointing out the mentality of you liberals who view non white people as a bunch of children.
Since I don’t make these assumptions about non white people, I have no problem with voter ID.
Well EGV my source was 2012 and it paints a different picture. Honestly, I don’t find 30% all that impressive. Wasn’t that also a big presidential election year??
EGV,
I told you early voting is fine with me. It sure helps me to go to city hall where I am required to present my ID, being white that isn’t assumed to be a problem, and vote.
But that one source questions if it really brings out the voters. Also its hugely expensive. Now you were the one complaining about expense so of course I had to ask.
Voter ID laws target poor people specifically, Mary. Poor people are disproportionately minorities, but the majority is still white. They also target the elderly and disabled, there’s no racial difference there. It’s silly to bring race into it.
Mary
Bottom line – you can say what you think makes sense – you can talk about your bank. You can talk about common sense all you want. You can say whatever you want.
The bottom line, undisputed truth, like it or not is – voter id bills result in honest to goodness American citizens not able to vote. Again, you can throw your hands up literally all day long, and it doesn’t change that fact.
Americans are not able to vote. They get turned away.
It just happens.
So again, you can post a million posts about what could be, should be – whatever. But Americans have the right to vote, and voter Id bills restrict that.
If you are okay restricting voting for American citizens, just say it and let’s be done with it.
If you aren’t okay with restricting, you can’t support voter ID bills – you simply can’t unless you write new facts. It simply is what it is, and the facts are well documented.
So just let me know – are you okay restricting the votes of American citizens?
No I am not backtracking. I said I want to elect to elect people who believe in the personhood of the unborn cause they are more likely to appoint judges who support the unborn. If the judge supports personhood then all the better. Name me the last Democrat appointed judge who supported personhood or even democratic protections for the unborn. I’ll wait….. crickets….prove…my..point
So you want GOP leaders that support personhood to appoint judges, even if they don’t support personhood, because then when a personhood law passes (if one passes), it will get ruled unconstitutional?
I don’t know of a Democratic appointed judge that supports personhood – but I’m not really sure of a GOP one either – has a personhood law ever gone through courts?
Best case for the GOP is fragmented abortion laws over the country – which means high abortion rates still unless we change society by having systems in place in which choosing life is the better option.
As GOP leaders continue to rail against maternity leave, minimum wage, paid vacation, unions, food stamps, health care, and the middle class – I just don’t feel the GOP is ready to be the party that helps convince women that life is better.
Hi DLPL,
Free IDs are available. Even poor people pay rent. They have jobs. They shop. The people I know who have collected unemployment and other benefits needed IDs to cash the check. My dear friend who survives month to month on disability has a bank account. She also has an ID and votes. My 97y/o mother who can barely walk with a walker has an ID, and never misses an election. Unless they live on the street or on the outskirts of society, they will have and can get an ID.
Mary – again – see my post – you can say they are free – you can say what you want. voter ID’s result in legit citizens not being able to vote.
Are you comfortable with that or not?
EGV 10:52PM
All your sources have shown only bureaucratic snafus, which one expects when laws change and people either don’t keep up or are unaware of what they must do.
As I pointed out there are 2 and 4 years between elections. Call city hall. Find out what the voting rules and regulations are, especially if you are new to the area. Check with civic and church groups. Many will assist those in need to get their IDs or the necessary information concerning voting.
Also if one is denied their right to vote take legal action. There is something called legal aid.
I find this opposition to voter ID laws racist and patronizing – what an absolute confection. Not a very good one either. Toooooo obvious. Looking at the experiences of those disenfranchised under GOP voter ID laws, it is not a color-based issue.
You see folks I have no problem with voter ID, – Only those who support the true intent of these voter ID laws deny that true intent.
I don’t have the assumption you do, that people of color are a bunch of children. – again, a shallow confection.
Deluded,
I saw nothing in your fact check link that disputes my 10:30pm post about acorn.
Are you having trouble finding sources too Reality? – not at all. What seems to be your difficulty?
Try google, it works really well. Put in ‘Acorn 2008 Nevada election fraud’ and you can take your pick of the references to voter fraud convictions. – I don’t see why you struggle with it.
That way you won’t be able to dispute the sources. – now what did I say about mimicking Mary not helping you.
Reality doesn’t dispute sources. Only the rest of us have to do that. He just get to decree them invalid. – and here I was thinking I made it quite simple for you. They declare themselves invalid. They tell us.
Ex-RINO, you are like a big-mouthed kid who goes on and on spreading bs like the GOP war against the middle class etc. etc. and telling people they only call you a liar because ‘they know you are right’. News flash, you are almost never right and almost every post is full of bs.
Didn’t you say you were willing to banish yourself from this site? What would it take?
just pointing out the mentality of you liberals who view non white people as a bunch of children. – no, you’re playing the race card. Not a successful attempt at distraction. Unless you can demonstrate that only black people will be affected negatively by voter ID laws?
Reality, 11:18PM
Unlike you and some others on this board, I don’t view non white people as children who don’t function in every day society.
So I have no issue with voter ID laws.
reality,
Your contrarian shtick is contrarian in and of itself cause you act like a two year old when you do it but at the same time it is getting really old.
Reality,
When it comes to voter ID, all I hear about how it effects minorities. The law is racist. No the mentality that non white people don’t function like adults in society is racist.
I also consider it patronizing to low income people, who pay rent, work, drive, have bank accounts, etc., to assume they are equally helpless.
I make no such assumptions when it comes to voter ID, but then I don’t share your racist patronizing mentality.
Unlike you and some others on this board, I don’t view non white people as children who don’t function in every day society. – you’re insulting your own intelligence more than mine with that one Mary. Why do you stoop to such depths of desperation when you know you are fundamentally wrong and unable to support your claim.
and then you go even further and make it worse
So I have no issue with voter ID laws. – only those who support the true intent of these voter ID laws deny that true intent.
Your contrarian shtick is contrarian in and of itself cause you act like a two year old when you do it but at the same time it is getting really old. – and so you are back to substituting juvenile insults for anything useful I see. No surprise there.
Come on Reality,
Hitting a nerve aren’t I? You such a bastion of liberal enlightenment view people of color as so helpless? As less inclined to function as adults in society? As children who have to be guided and made exceptions for?
So pray tell Reality, what is the true intent of voter ID laws? To stop minority people from voting? But why would you assume that minority people are any less inclined to have an ID Reality?
It is more than obvious Mary, that you are doing all you can to drag this from where it is into some realm where you think you can obfuscate and distract.
I did not say voter ID laws are racist.
I have not said – or meant – that minorities of any distinction are ‘less able’.
You are posing questions which have no basis in regards to this topic.
No, the intent of voter ID laws isn’t to stop minority people from voting – that’s just another example of your game playing – it is to stop democrat voters – of any class, color, creed or distinction – from voting.
If it were possible to create a Godwin’s Law pertaining to color, race or such, you’ve just achieved it.
Reality,
Stop Democrat voters from voting. Hmmm. Well minorities and/or the poor(you notice I do not make the assumption that many do that minority people are poor) ARE more likely to vote Democrat….Goodness, one would almost think you’re suggesting…well…I’m sticking my neck out here, that minorities and poor people would be less inclined to have IDs.
Now why is that the case Reality??
Well minorities and/or the poor(you notice I do not make the assumption that many do that minority people are poor) – how very civil of you.
ARE more likely to vote Democrat….Goodness, one would almost think you’re suggesting…well…I’m sticking my neck out here, that minorities and poor people would be less inclined to have IDs. – poor people quite possibly. As for ‘minorities’, who knows.
Now why is that the case Reality?? – you tell me, you’re the one making it up.
We were discussing the fact that republican derived voter ID laws generally only have the intent of disenfranchising democrat supporters.
You went off about airports, banks and city hall.
You then made it about race or peoples ability to function in society. The more this is pointed out to you the more extreme your claims become.
Says it all really.
Mary,
Reality isn’t saying that poor people or minorities would be disenfranchised; he is saying that Democratic voters have no ID’s so they wouldn’t be able to vote if ID was required.
The law in most states with voter ID has a clause that gives away free state ID’s to anybody who wants one so I am not sure why specifically Democrats would have a harder time getting an ID.
Reality,
Not civil at all. I notice you liberals often fail to make such a distinction. You just equate being of color with being poor. I make no such assumption.
You are blissfully ignorant of the fact that minorities overwhelmingly vote Democrat, in what minorities are targeted be Democrats at election time, especially when things are getting a little tight? In what cave have you been living Reality?
Come on Reality, you know as well as I that all this whining about voter ID is that it supposedly targets minorities and/or the poor, who are by and large Democrat voters. Its based on the racist and patronizing assumption so typical of liberals, that minority and low income population do not function as adults in our society. If they did, they would need an ID.
Unlike you Reality and a few others on this board, I do not make this racist and patronizing assumption.
Hi ts,
Most minorities and/or the poor will vote Democrat, thus you hear all this “concern” for poor and minorities being “denied” the right to vote if voter ID laws go into effect. Who do the Democrats go crying to when elections look like they may be tight?
I point out that I have no such concern for voter ID laws because unlike liberals, I am not of the mindset that minority and low income citizens, many of who I know personally, are a bunch of children who don’t function in adult society or are just too stupid to figure out how to vote if they want to badly enough.
Why would producing an ID be any more problem for them than it is for me? A nuisance, yes, but not a problem.
I really have to wonder if liberals ever listen to themselves and what their arguments are suggesting.
Mary, no one besides you and truthseeker mentioned race in regards to voter ID laws, none of us who disagree with them have said anything about it.
I do they think they target the poor, the elderly, and disabled. And it’s a very small percentage of those people who are affected anyway. It’s a very small issue. So I think it’s a huge waste of money and a deliberate targeting of Democrat voters.
“truthseeker mentioned race in regards to voter ID laws,”
huh?
Reality isn’t saying that poor people or minorities would be disenfranchised; he is saying that Democratic voters have no ID’s so they wouldn’t be able to vote if ID was required. – displaying your lack of comprehension again? Or just trying to put words into others mouths?
You just equate being of color with being poor. I make no such assumption. – your claim is based on zero, therefore you have made a monumental assumption. You are the one equating color with being poor, you’re the only one who has stated so.
You are blissfully ignorant of the fact that minorities overwhelmingly vote Democrat, – billionaires? Or maybe homosexuals, members of opus dei, Korean-Americans, members of KKK, scientists? Those minorities?
in what minorities are targeted be Democrats at election time, especially when things are getting a little tight? – huh? Wanna try that again.
In what cave have you been living Reality? – the one which does have information and light, how about you.
Come on Reality, you know as well as I that all this whining about voter ID is that it supposedly targets minorities and/or the poor, who are by and large Democrat voters. – like the old, the disabled etc?
Its based on the racist and patronizing assumption so typical of liberals, that minority and low income population do not function as adults in our society. If they did, they would need an ID. – no, that’s your appalling construction.
Unlike you Reality and a few others on this board, I do not make this racist and patronizing assumption. – you are the one creating what isn’t there in yet another attempt at distraction. It’s not going to work.
I really have to wonder if liberals ever listen to themselves and what their arguments are suggesting. – what we hear is you and what you are suggesting. It is you who is making declarations regarding color etc.
Well – I think my job here is done – I’m glad I was able to educate some folks on voter id laws and abortion views of Scalia. I’ll wait until later tonight to unsubscribe – I think I answered every credible question that came my way – but if anything else was missed, let me know.
The word bloviation comes to mind
Hi DLPL,
I have to disagree. If you check out EGV’s 8:44PM post he asks if I believe in poll taxes and tests. Check out the history of these efforts by the Democrat Party to stop black people from voting.
Also I’m afraid I find your remarks about the poor, elderly, and disabled, though well meaning, unintentionally patronizing and demeaning. All such individuals work, drive, pay rent/mortgages, have bank accounts(S.S. checks are often direct deposited, as they are for my disabled friend). An ID is essential. They are also free.
I don’t assume that because people are challenged, elderly, or poor that they are helpless or can’t figure out how to vote.
Come on Reality,
So you are ignorant of the fact that the vast majority of the black and the majority of Latino and Jewish electorate vote Democrat. OK Reality, whatever you say. About that cave… BTW, no fair jumping up and down and screaming you don’t like my sources.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/10/5-takeaways-about-the-2014-latino-vote/
http://blackdemographics.com/culture/black-politics/
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/11/nation/la-na-pn-obama-jewish-support-20120710
Now since you have such concern for “Democrat voters” being affected by voter ID laws, I notice no similiar concern on your part for Republican or Independent voters, then perhaps you can tell me exactly what members of the Democrat Party cause you so much concern and why they can be so easily targeted by voter ID laws. EGV has expressed concern for black voters in his 10:44PM. Do you share his concern?
The word bloviation comes to mind – nice to see you recognize what you’re doing.
Check out the history of these efforts by the Democrat Party to stop black people from voting. – and you think this means the GOP aren’t be doing it now? Or that it makes what they’re doing ok?
Also I’m afraid I find your remarks about the poor, elderly, and disabled, though well meaning, unintentionally patronizing and demeaning. – pointing out that there are certain factors impinging on people is not patronizing or demeaning. Is it patronizing or demeaning to point out that a blind person cannot see to cross the street? You’re the one trying to make this about race.
All such individuals work, drive, pay rent/mortgages, have bank accounts(S.S. checks are often direct deposited, as they are for my disabled friend). – really? All the elderly work? All the disabled drive? All disabled people pay rent or a mortgage? Including those living with family? Wow, where is this planet on which you live?
An ID is essential. They are also free. – photo ID’s are not always free. If people do not work, drive or pay rent/mortgages – and they don’t all – they may not have the form of ID the republicans are demanding.
I don’t assume that because people are challenged, elderly, or poor that they are helpless or can’t figure out how to vote. – neither do Ex-GOP, LDPL or myself. What’s your point?
You Mary, have tried to turn this into a matter of race. As I said, this is like some version of Godwin’s Law on your behalf.
The poor, the elderly and the disabled are the main victims of the intent of the voter ID laws. As to what percentage may be black, white or brindle, it’s irrelevant. Unless you are of the opinion that the republicans have a particular race as one of their targets? It wouldn’t surprise me.
No Reality,
Assuming that certain factors impinge on people and it makes them little more than helpless children is patronizing and demeaning. Its not demeaning to assume a blind person may not be able to cross the street safely, depending on the street and whether or not he has a guide dog or always travels with assistance, but it is demeaning to assume the person is little more than a child incapable of independent living, employment…or knowing how to vote.
Well, elderly people have to live somewhere, right? Likely they pay rent, even in senior housing. Likely they have a bank account and their SS checks will be sent there. Both require IDs. BTW elderly people do volunteer work, you see a lot of them at the voting centers advising people on voting,so likely they drive. Being elderly doesn’t turn them into shut ins…or helpless children.
Yes many of the disabled drive. Ever see “handicapped parking” spaces. Ever hear of hand controlled vehicles with wheelchair lifts”? Guess what, they will need licenses. IDs. Also, they may avail themselves of services that require ID to obtain. If they get social security, which is highly probable, it will likely be directly deposited into a bank account which requires an ID to get and withdraw from, as well as to pay by check in stores. And yes, disabled people do live independently or with assistance, and pay rent.
You were saying something about a planet??
So exactly what form of ID are republicans demanding that people are unlikely to have?
No Reality, EGV first played the race card.
Oh, so the poor, elderly, and disabled are the main targets. Any source to back that up?? Are there any poor, elderly, and disabled people who vote independent and republican that could be affected? How can the republicans make sure they are not?
I’m curious Reality, are Jews, blacks, and Latinos targets as well?
Assuming that certain factors impinge on people and it makes them little more than helpless children is patronizing and demeaning. – and you are the only one who has said such.
Its not demeaning to assume a blind person may not be able to cross the street safely, depending on the street and whether or not he has a guide dog or always travels with assistance, – that’s what I said.
but it is demeaning to assume the person is little more than a child incapable of independent living, employment…or knowing how to vote. – good job I didn’t do that then. I don’t recall Ex-GOP or LDPL doing so either. This isn’t about whether people know how to vote. Why are you raising that? Ah, another of your attempts to slide things sideways a bit.
Well, elderly people have to live somewhere, right? Likely they pay rent, even in senior housing. Likely they have a bank account and their SS checks will be sent there. – yet what I said was that elderly people don’t all work, as you claimed they did.
Both require IDs. – of what type compared to photo ID for voting?
BTW elderly people do volunteer work, you see a lot of them at the voting centers advising people on voting,so likely they drive. Being elderly doesn’t turn them into shut ins…or helpless children. – ‘likely they drive’? What an assumption. Of course it doesn’t shut them in or turn them into children, why would you say that?
Yes many of the disabled drive. Ever see “handicapped parking” spaces. Ever hear of hand controlled vehicles with wheelchair lifts”? Guess what, they will need licenses. IDs. – do “all” of them drive? That’s not my observation.
Also, they may avail themselves of services that require ID to obtain. – some, not “all”.
If they get social security, which is highly probable, it will likely be directly deposited into a bank account which requires an ID to get and withdraw from, as well as to pay by check in stores. – some, not “all”. And if they are already listed with SS and already have a long held bank account – the more likely scenario – they won’t need fresh ID.
And yes, disabled people do live independently or with assistance, and pay rent. – some, not “all”.
You were saying something about a planet?? – the planet you must live on where “all” elderly work and drive and open new bank accounts. Where “all” disabled people work and/or drive and/or pay rent.
So exactly what form of ID are republicans demanding that people are unlikely to have? – it varies from state to state. That’s why courts have overturned it in some but not others. In your world that probably equates to ‘nuthin happnin.’
No Reality, EGV first played the race card. – no, you played the race card.
Oh, so the poor, elderly, and disabled are the main targets. Any source to back that up?? – Ex_GOP has already provided them for you. There is also the fact that the requirements do most affect the poor, the elderly and the disabled.
Are there any poor, elderly, and disabled people who vote independent and republican that could be affected? How can the republicans make sure they are not? – there would be a small number. Not enough to make the intent of the voter ID laws become less than worthwhile to the republicans.
I’m curious Reality, are Jews, blacks, and Latinos targets as well? – they could be. Depends whether they are poor, elderly or disabled doesn’t it.
Reality,
To keep from going in perpetual circles I will sum it all up.
The elderly and disabled are very likely to have IDs as they need to rent apartments, drive, deposit their SS, write checks and qualify for services. We agree that being disabled and elderly does not mean that people do not function in adult society, which requires IDs.
Poor people work, some at more than one job, pay rent, many drive, have bank accounts, so would have IDs.
EGV initially played the race card. Posts 8:44PM and 10:44PM
You say EGV posted a link showing the poor, disabled and elderly are the main targets. Kindly show me that post(s) and link(s).
So you are arguing then that the republicans are going to all this trouble to target the poor, disabled, and elderly who vote democrat but not republican or independent. How do they determine who votes what so as to target them??
Also you say not enough vote republican to make the intent of the voter ID laws less than worthwhile to the republicans. Source??
You think minorities “could be”. “Depends whether they are poor, elderly, or disabled doesn’t it?” Geez, you have a disagreement with EGV here. He thinks black Americans will be the victims.
But apparently you don’t think the republican ID laws are going after minorities. You differ from many liberals on that point.
You’re the one circling your wagons. Whilst trying to slip away.
The elderly and disabled are very likely to have IDs as they need to rent apartments, drive, deposit their SS, write checks and qualify for services. – the elderly, the disabled and the poor are less likely to have the type of ID being demanded by GOP ID laws. And they don’t all rent or drive. Their bank accounts may be long-held and therefore not need fresh ID.
We agree that being disabled and elderly does not mean that people do not function in adult society, – changed your mind now have you?
which requires IDs. – if they don’t drive or open a new bank account then they haven’t had a need for the type of ID the GOP ID laws are demanding.
Poor people work, some at more than one job, pay rent, many drive, have bank accounts, so would have IDs. – some, not “all”. Why is this concept such a struggle for you? Nor is it necessarily the case that they have the type of ID the GOP ID laws demand if they have long established bank accounts and rental of the property at which they reside.
EGV initially played the race card. Posts 8:44PM and 10:44PM – not at all. There’s a world of difference between mentioning race and playing the race card. Ex didn’t, you did.
You say EGV posted a link showing the poor, disabled and elderly are the main targets. Kindly show me that post(s) and link(s). – don’t be so lazy.
So you are arguing then that the republicans are going to all this trouble to target the poor, disabled, and elderly who vote democrat but not republican or independent. How do they determine who votes what so as to target them?? – are you kidding? You want this discussion and you know almost nothing about voter registration, voting demographics, exit polling etc!!!
Also you say not enough vote republican to make the intent of the voter ID laws less than worthwhile to the republicans. Source?? – voter demographics. Results identified down to voting site results.
You think minorities “could be”. “Depends whether they are poor, elderly, or disabled doesn’t it?” Geez, you have a disagreement with EGV here. He thinks black Americans will be the victims. – stop ducking and weaving, you also mentioned jews and latinos. That was the question I answered.
But apparently you don’t think the republican ID laws are going after minorities. You differ from many liberals on that point. – depends on the voting patterns of particular minorities. Oh, that’s right, you don’t get that, otherwise you wouldn’t have asked the questions you did above.
Reality,
I didn’t say circling wagons, I said going in circles. Two different things.
I’m not lazy, you made the claim concerning the post(s) by EGV so please back it up. Show me the post(s).
We agree! The poor, disabled, and elderly function in adult society and thus would have need of IDs. Glad to know you don’t take a patronizing view toward these groups.
“Voter demographics. Results identified down to voting site results”. I’m supposed to just take you word for this? A source please.
“Ducking and weaving”? I mentioned blacks along with Latinos and Jews. Please address my question concerning all these minorities.
“Voting patterns of particular minorities”? Oh now we’re finally getting down to brass tacks. So you think republicans ARE going after minorities. We already know their voting patterns, I gave you sources.
The only reason anything’s going around in circles is because you keep muddying the waters, dragging all sorts of confected scenarios into it and ignoring what you have been informed of.
I’m not lazy, you made the claim concerning the post(s) by EGV so please back it up. Show me the post(s). – if you’re happy to claim that such is not provided by the links above that’s just fine with me. Go for it.
We agree! The poor, disabled, and elderly function in adult society and thus would have need of IDs. – how nice of you to say so. Now, about the variances and differing activities of some of these people being indicative of the level of ID they have thus far required in comparison to what the GOP ID laws are demanding. I note you have chosen not to address this at all. Rather, you just keep insisting that “all” these people do all these things and therefore have the requisite ID pertinent to the ID laws.
Glad to know you don’t take a patronizing view toward these groups. – I already knew that, pity about your attitude.
“Voter demographics. Results identified down to voting site results”. I’m supposed to just take you word for this? A source please. – no, please don’t take my word for it. Feel free to claim that electoral results, trends etc. don’t exist. I guess there’s no such thing as psephology huh.
“Ducking and weaving”? – yes, your speciality.
I mentioned blacks along with Latinos and Jews. Please address my question concerning all these minorities. – the same answer applies – depends whether they are poor, elderly or disabled doesn’t it.
“Voting patterns of particular minorities”? Oh now we’re finally getting down to brass tacks. So you think republicans ARE going after minorities. – tut tut. Some of the GOP’s targets would be minorities – which was what your question related to – but that does not mean it is only minorities.
We already know their voting patterns, I gave you sources. – which ones? All of them? What about the ‘not exactly minorities’?
Maybe the GOP should just try to pass laws saying that only perennial Fox News viewers are permitted to vote, that’d probably deliver what they seek.
No Reality, I just don’t like repeating and arguing the same points.
Please tell me what the IDs are that are required by republicans. I need to know since I just have the old run of the mill driver’s license.
Like I said, I’m glad we agree the elderly, disabled, and poor very much function as adults in society, and as such need some form of ID to do so.
Now is it whether minorities are poor, disabled, or elderly, or how they vote? “Some of the GOPs targets would be minorities”. So how could the GOP target minorities specifically? What about the minorities who vote republican, would they be targeted? “But that does not mean it is only minorities? Who else?
I showed the voting patterns for 3 minorities that vote majority Democrat. What or who would constitute “not exactly minorities”?
Please tell me what the IDs are that are required by republicans. – it varies from state to state. I told you that.
I need to know since I just have the old run of the mill driver’s license. – unlike some others.
Like I said, I’m glad we agree the elderly, disabled, and poor very much function as adults in society, and as such need some form of ID to do so. – yes, some form of ID will have been needed at some stage. Maybe not now for their banking, rent etc. if they are already established. Why do you keep ignoring this fact?
Now is it whether minorities are poor, disabled, or elderly, or how they vote? “Some of the GOPs targets would be minorities”. So how could the GOP target minorities specifically? What about the minorities who vote republican, would they be targeted? “But that does not mean it is only minorities? Who else? – this has already been explained to you. Over and over. There’s your circle.
I showed the voting patterns for 3 minorities that vote majority Democrat. What or who would constitute “not exactly minorities”? – at what point is a group declared to be or not be a minority? Are the poor a minority?
Mary,
I saw attorney general Holder yesterday say that the person who shot the cops in Ferguson was a punk. Does that mean punk is not a racist word like thug?
Reality,
So please tell me what these republican ID requirement variations are. A source would be helpful.
I ignore nothing. I’m glad we both agree that the elderly, poor, and disabled function in adult society.
Not quite Reality. First you discuss disability, age, and income, then it becomes voting patterns. So which is it? On what are ID laws determined, what is their purpose, and who do they target and how?
No circle on my part, more like you’ve painted yourself into a corner.
I’m not arguing who is or isn’t a minority, I’m discussing who is. Are the poor a minority? Hopefully. Not that I have anything against poor people, I just don’t want people living in poverty.
Hi ts,
Yes, wasn’t that noble of him? Does he plan to make any trips to Ferguson? That SOB. Like this should surprise anyone. First there’s the months of the false “hands up” scenario, promises of “justice”, high expectations that someone will hang for this, then….geez, the Grand Jury was right, it wasn’t rigged, the witnesses, mostly black, didn’t lie..Officer Wilson acted in self defense! Goodness, Michael Brown wasn’t delivering food baskets to the poor when Wilson just walked up and plugged him?
Damn! Try as we might we can’t produce any evidence against the guy. The evidence supports him!! NOW WHAT DO WE DO??
We have to throw the mob a bone. The mob that destroyed businesses, many black owned. Now I know people are sympathetic, however I would like to see how sympathetic they would be about a history of oppression and injustice if bricks came flying through their front windows and a bunch of dirtbags trashed and looted their homes, even setting them on fire. The blacks who’s businesses were destroyed had a history of oppression and injustice too. Kudos to that courageous black woman who was filmed putting out a fire with a gallon of milk.
I’m not saying the report is false or that there are not issues to be addressed, I’m just highly suspicious of its timing. Holder and the race hucksters are getting what they asked for as far as I’m concerned, police officers shot.
Sorry ts but I’m enraged at this. And as you know I have been critical of Wilson, telling you why I think he was asked to resign.
Still, that does not mean he didn’t act in self defense.
About the word “punk”. If our esteemed AG uses the word, then that divinely decrees it not racist. It occurred to me we should be careful of the word “gangster” as well. Now “mobster” may have less racist overtones, as there were Italian, Jewish, Irish, and Russian mobsters. “Gangster”, while I associate it more with “The Untouchables” could now very well be construed as “racist”. And “hood”? Well, that word has done some morphing since the days of “West Side Story” and my wannabe hood teenage brother. Might have to be careful of that word as well.
Thank you for pointing it out ts. I would never want to be anything but a bastion of sensitivity when it comes to criminals.
Hi truthseeker,
Can you believe we even had such an absurd discussion as to whether or not a term describing criminal behavior is racist? Is that not racist in itself to even suggest that such a term refers to people of a certain race? I guess unlike our liberal friends, you and I do not see why criminals of one color are called one thing and criminals of another color aren’t. Criminals are criminals, they come in every color and we don’t care which one it is.
So please tell me what these republican ID requirement variations are. A source would be helpful. – how many times do I need to tell you the same thing. It varies from state to state.
I ignore nothing. I’m glad we both agree that the elderly, poor, and disabled function in adult society. – and as I said, yes, some form of ID will have been needed at some stage. Maybe not now for their banking, rent etc. if they are already established. Something you repeatedly ignored.
Not quite Reality. First you discuss disability, age, and income, then it becomes voting patterns. So which is it? – have you deliberately or accidently confused this? Psephology identifies who the GOP need to target which also identifies which groups and the best way to target them. Such as campus voting access to target educational establishments who largely support democrats.
On what are ID laws determined, – seriously? You’re asking this question now?
what is their purpose, </I. – I thought you'd actually been a part of this debate. Was that an imposter? Their purpose is to restrict the number of voters who are likely to vote democrat from being able to actually cast a vote.
and who do they target and how? – where have you been Mary? They target likely democrat voters. In various ways, as discussed throughout this thread. Good grief.
No circle on my part, more like you’ve painted yourself into a corner. – LOL. And here you are asking questions which would indicate you’ve been pretty much absent from the conversation until now.
I’m not arguing who is or isn’t a minority, I’m discussing who is. – your making a pretty poor job of it.
Are the poor a minority? Hopefully. Not that I have anything against poor people, I just don’t want people living in poverty. – aren’t you sweet.
Reality,
So you’re not going to back your claim as to how republican ID requirements vary from state to state.
Even if established with a bank, an ID is required to withdraw money and pay by check.
No I haven’t confused it at all. You have.
Campus voting access? So students and professors don’t drive? There’s no bus service? They can’t walk or ride a bike? They don’t have driver’s licenses? They can’t get free IDs? They can’t call City Hall for assistance or any questions they may have? Come on Reality, that’s pushing it.
Yes I’d like to know what you think republicans use to determine who and how to target with voter ID laws. Who are the democrat voters you say they go after? So far we’ve gotten the poor, elderly, and disabled, minorities and voting patterns, and now college campuses. So please be specific. Exactly who is targeted and why would these be individuals less inclined to have IDs?
Reality, are you telling me you are oblivious to the fact that Jews, Latinos, and Blacks are American minorities?
Yes I am sweet. Flattery will get you everywhere. :)
So you’re not going to back your claim as to how republican ID requirements vary from state to state. – quite frankly, I’d much rather sit back and watch as you repeatedly claim it’s not happening. Please continue.
Even if established with a bank, an ID is required to withdraw money and pay by check. – what sort of ID? How often is photo ID required?
No I haven’t confused it at all. You have. – I think it speaks for itself.
Campus voting access? So students and professors don’t drive? – are you back to your “all” gambit?
There’s no bus service? They can’t walk or ride a bike? They don’t have driver’s licenses? – the relevant question is why are the GOP doing such things?
They can’t get free IDs? – depends what sort of ID is required and what the availability of that form of ID is.
They can’t call City Hall for assistance or any questions they may have? Come on Reality, that’s pushing it. – how many city halls provide free photo ID’s?
Yes I’d like to know what you think republicans use to determine who and how to target with voter ID laws. – this has been demonstrated and explained to you more than once.
Who are the democrat voters you say they go after? – this has been demonstrated and explained to you more than once.
So far we’ve gotten the poor, elderly, and disabled, minorities and voting patterns, and now college campuses. – see, you are confused.
So please be specific. Exactly who is targeted and why would these be individuals less inclined to have IDs? – this has been demonstrated and explained to you more than once.
Reality, are you telling me you are oblivious to the fact that Jews, Latinos, and Blacks are American minorities? – not at all. The pertinent question is, does the GOP target all three?
Yes I am sweet. Flattery will get you everywhere. :) – I’ve always been aware of the term ‘glutton for punishment’. Never thought I’d observe it being so exemplified.
Reality,
OK, you can’t back your claim.
A photo ID is required and is specifically asked for. What good is an ID without a photo?
LOL, honestly Reality you are becoming comical and somewhat incoherent. I will make the questions simple, hopefully you will answer instead of perpetually going in circles and making less and less sense as you do so.
1. What specific groups that vote Democrat, the “democrat voters” that you have mentioned, are targeted by the GOP? Please name them and sources backing your claim would help.
2. Why are these groups less inclined to have IDs? How can republicans be certain only these democrat voters will be targeted? Do all republican voters have IDs or a means to obtain them? Is there a chance republican and Independent voters could be targeted too? What is there about democrat voters that makes them such easy targets?
“Does the GOP target all three”? Is this a concern of yours because you assume minorities are less inclined to have IDs?
OK, you can’t back your claim. – I can. It’s not difficult, just a bit time consuming because there are a number of states to provide sources for. But I think my time would be better spent allowing you to repeatedly claim “nuthin happnin”. More fun too.
A photo ID is required and is specifically asked for. – no it’s not.
What good is an ID without a photo? – most ID, even drivers licences in the past, did not have photos. Credit cards have security without photos.
LOL, honestly Reality you are becoming comical and somewhat incoherent. I will make the questions simple, hopefully you will answer instead of perpetually going in circles and making less and less sense as you do so. – you’re still confused! Dear me. I’ve made the answers as simple as I can for you.
1. What specific groups that vote Democrat, the “democrat voters” that you have mentioned, are targeted by the GOP? Please name them and sources backing your claim would help. – are you seriously going to claim that these groups haven’t been mentioned and discussed on this very thread? Wow!
2. Why are these groups less inclined to have IDs? How can republicans be certain only these democrat voters will be targeted? Do all republican voters have IDs or a means to obtain them? Is there a chance republican and Independent voters could be targeted too? What is there about democrat voters that makes them such easy targets? – are you a different Mary? Have you read any of the other 200 plus comments above? The information that Ex-GOP provided for you?
“Does the GOP target all three”? Is this a concern of yours because you assume minorities are less inclined to have IDs? – not at all. It’s a straight forward question to you.
Mary,
thanks for the enlightening post. I’ll try and be more sensitive about who I call a gangster.
Reality,
Even driver’s licenses in the past?? LOL. I’ve had a photo on my license since high school and I will NOT elaborate on how long that has been! Uh Reality, credit cards aren’t ID. Of course they wouldn’t have a picture. I’ve offered a credit card as an extra form of ID. Didn’t fly.
Well I see you can’t answer my questions.
Yes, drivers license were without photos. There are forms of ID accepted by banks and such which do not have photos. I don’t show photo ID on the odd occasion when I conduct a transaction within a bank. Ever heard of passwords? My credit card is accepted for purchasing goods and it contains no photo.
All your questions have been answered at least once. You simply refuse to acknowledge the blatantly obvious.
But please continue to do so, it makes for a better result :-)
Hi truthseeker,
I’m so glad to hear that. I think you and I have learned our lesson.
Referring to criminals as thugs, gangsters, goons, gorillas, and hoods must not be done without prior thought and sensitivity. To think I used the word “thug” to describe such an upstanding citizen as Michael Brown knocking over a convenience store then attacking a cop.
Reality,
Maybe where you live, which I don’t think is in the States, but having driven in the States uh hum years pictures have been on drivers licenses all that time. Also licenses have to be renewed. Move to another state and you will need a new license. Believe me licenses will have pictures.
When I have to go to the bank to withdraw money or cash a check, I have to present a picture ID. When I write a check at the store I do as well. I went to pick up my prescription list from the pharmacy for tax purposes today and had to present a picture ID before they would give me the list. An elderly gentleman at the eye doctor yesterday had to present a picture ID. Photo IDs are photocopied for identification purposes and to protect confidentiality. They have mine on file. I’ve had to present an ID in some stores when using my credit card. I wish they would ask for ID more often. My card has been compromised more than once.
No my questions have not been answered Reality and you obviously can’t answer them.
My licence was without a photo until the 80’s.
When I have to go to the bank to withdraw money or cash a check, I have to present a picture ID……..y would give me the list. An elderly gentleman at the eye doctor yesterday had to present a picture ID. Photo IDs are photocopied for identification purposes and to protect confidentiality. They have mine on file. I’ve had to present an ID in some stores when using my credit card. I wish they would ask for ID more often. My card has been compromised more than once. – perhaps I look more trustworthy than you. The point is that just because you are required to do certain things or that certain things are required at times, doesn’t mean it is exactly the same for everyone in every case. You also still ignore the fact that not everybody has licence and such.
No my questions have not been answered Reality and you obviously can’t answer them. – well yes they have. And not just by myself. Revel in your feigned ignorance.
Reality,
Did you live in the states? If so, what state didn’t have photo ID?
Reality, it is the same for everyone. These are the every day situations in the adult world where one must show a photo ID whatever their race, religion, age, ethnicity or economic situation. It is expected you have one. If not, you’re SOL.
When it comes to feigning ignorance Reality, you are second to none.
No state had photo’s on licences some decades ago.
No it is not the same for everyone. That is not the case at all.
Some folk haven’t found themselves in a situation where they need photo ID until the GOP came along with their laws predicated on making voting as difficult as possible for likely democrat voters.
The fact that there is sooooo much information available to you through the course of this thread demonstrates that, once again, you are the world champion feigner of ignorance.
One day you must tell me whereabouts in the universe the planet you live on lies.