Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health held its 2010 Abortion Provider awards ceremony on May 24. I always find pro-abort events creepily intriguing.
Winner of this year's William K. Rashbaum, MD, Abortion Provider Award (which "honors a physician who provides outstanding abortion services and serves as an inspirational leader for colleagues, residents, and medical students") was abortionist Carolyn Westhoff, presented by late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart...
I concur Westhoff was well-deserving of this award, and partial birth abortion bud Carhart was just the guy to give it to her. Both were plaintiffs against the ban. Westhoff testified there was "usually a heartbeat" when she started suctioning a baby's brain out and on the topic of fetal pain acknowledged, "I certainly know based on my experience that the fetus will withdraw in response to a painful stimulus."...
According to PRCH Westhoff was also instrumental in bringing RU-486 to the U.S. Also:
... Westhoff is medical director of the NY Presbyterian Hospital Family Planning Clinic, professor of epidemiology and population and family health, and professor of obstetrics and gynecology, all at Columbia University.... In her 24 years at Columbia, she has expanded the hospital's minimal abortion services into a robust program of patient care, training, and research.
Dr. Westhoff was a... founding member of PRCH... and serves on the board of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
So seriously, with all those credentials, did PRCH really only bestow Westhoff with a little coffee cup bouquet? (Click photo to enlarge.)
Winner of the George Tiller, MD, Abortion Provider Award (which "recognizes a physician early in his or her career who provides abortions while demonstrating leadership and courage") was abortionist Adam Jacobs (below top right). Presenters were widow Jeanne Tiller (below left) and daughter Rebecca (below bottom right). Click to enlarge....
Read PRCH's glowing bio of Jacobs here. When Paul Hill was executed for murdering abortionist John Britton and bodyguard James Barrett in 2003, Jacobs, a death penalty opponent, made this 6 degrees of confusing statement to BMJ.com, given his "live"lihood:
Paul Hill clearly believed not only that abortion is equivalent to murder, but also that it is OK to kill someone who has taken a life. The second view is something that most civilised people would find deeply repugnant. It is regrettable that the American 'justice' system has found such a dramatic way to reinforce that view.
PRCH's inspiring keynote speaker was Susan Wood, PhD (pictured right), who famously quit the FDA when it delayed okaying the morning-after pill for sale over-the-counter.
See photos of more abortionist luminaries at PRCH's flickr page, where I retrieved all the photos above.
The event sounds like it was bloody beautiful.
The pursuit of a doctorate, either M.D. or Ph.D. is a long, long brutally grinding process. It begins with four years of college scientific training that weeds out a great many in the first two years. Then come the admissions tests.
The first two years of doctoral training require endless hours of study, the management of obscene amounts of textbook and journal studies, constant testing and evaluation. Doctoral students learn to live on little sleep and much adrenalin.
And that's only the classroom years.
Then comes the two years of hospital study for the med students, followed by an average of four years of residency training. This is accompanied by massive textbook and literature study and three sets of medical licensing exams.
For the Ph.D., it's anywhere from 4-8 years of lab work before the dissertation and degree. This is accompanied by massive literature study, qualifier exams, comprehensive exams and dissertation defense. This is followed by 3-4 years of post-doctoral fellowship training.
What sustains each of us through all of that is a vision of what we wish to contribute to the world, who we want to be, how we want to touch lives and contribute to our fields.
It is simply incomprehensible to me, having gone through all of that for a Ph.D., that fellow Ph.D.'s would use such hard-earned talents for the destruction of babies in their mother's wombs, or that M.D.'s could do the same with their skills.
They all know the literature about post-traumatic stress syndrome, post-abortive gynecologic sequellae, infertility, increased risk of breast cancer, etc. Yet they deliberately lie about the data. So they not only pollute themselves, and the world, through the nefarious use of their skills; the engage in predation on women by withholding from them truly informed consent before they practice their lethal trade. Thus they demonstrate their contempt for women while wearing buttons such as Carhart's proclaiming:
In truth, we do, and they don't. We give women all of the information, as well as showing them their babies on sonogram and listening to their heartbeats. We trust that women will make the appropriate decision when fully informed. 90% do.
The fact that these butchers so vociferously and assiduously oppose any attempts to require informed consent demonstrates how much they hate women--the true misogynists of society.
And about the right use of our skills as doctors, M.D.'s and Ph.D.'s alike, Jesus tells us,
"To him who has been given more, more will be expected."
What a waste of doctoral training in that room. The trophies should have been gold-plated sewer caps.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 22, 2010 10:55 PM
Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney and sven ghoulie would have fit right in..no disrespect to the Wolfman or Dracula intended.Posted by: truthseeker at June 23, 2010 1:55 AM
Adam Jacobs would have made a great Igor.Posted by: truthseeker at June 23, 2010 1:58 AM
Prayer and a crucifix and some holy water and a Bible and an exorcist would come in handy too.
The people in that room are proof that there is such a thng as educated idiots. Our nobel prize winning president would fit right in.
So according to Jacobs, only killing the innocent is okay?
I got an image of that female person holding the fetus still so that she could stab him or her with scissors in the back of the head, while the child recoiled from the painful stimulus....
How can people do that?Posted by: ycw at June 23, 2010 5:01 AM
Thank you!! Thank you for your continued fight for life and your love of all.
Nice mug.Posted by: carla at June 23, 2010 6:23 AM
Ugh.Posted by: army_wife at June 23, 2010 8:20 AM
What did they serve for dessert?
Gummie Babies!Posted by: yor bro ken at June 23, 2010 8:30 AM
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 22, 2010 10:55 PM
"The trophies should have been gold-plated sewer caps."
I believe 'rusty' sewer caps would have been more appropriate.Posted by: yor bro ken at June 23, 2010 8:32 AM
why throw it all away on murdering babies?
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 23, 2010 5:19 AM
You may have your doctorate but you're obviously not a lawyer. According to the law of the land, abortion (under most circumstances) does not constitute the crime of "murder." And surely, as somebody with a PhD in a science, you know that a fetus is not, clinically speaking, a "baby." This is language appropriated by the "pro-life" movement to shame women (and doctors) as "baby killers" who are not subservient incubators for the sacred fetus. (Talk about misogynistic!) and surely as a person of science, you can frame your argument without reference to your deity. It does reinforce the stereotype of the "pro-lifer" as a crazed, religious zealot. And until you get Roe overturned and/or "murder" all the doctors who perform abortions (justifiable homicide, eh?) abortion remains a legal alternative to forced birthing,Posted by: Vanessa at June 23, 2010 8:55 AM
I see why they have these dinners and awards. Being pariahs to Medicine must be so demoralizing that these abortionists are desperate for affirmation. So they find it in their fellow butchers by congratulating each other.Posted by: Cranky Catholic at June 23, 2010 9:00 AM
I wasn't baptized a scientist. I was baptized a Catholic Christian. It is from our faith that we understand in Whose image and likeness we are fearfully and wonderfully made-the source of our true dignity.
Of course for the seculars, and equally fine case for human dignity is made regarding the embryo in George and Tollefsen's monumental work:
Embryo, A Defense of Human Life.
The science and philosophy are airtight in the book.
As for framing the debate without reference to God, why would I? That sort of split-brain approach to ethics represents the opposite of integrity--which is disintegration. That's precisely the ethical and philosophical error that has gotten us into this mess.
You come off as an anti-intellectual and petulant little girl; petty, mean and cruel. You are way out of your league with the denizens of this blog, as are your similarly-tempered fellow travelers. Grow up Vanessa and learn to have a civil conversation with adults.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 23, 2010 9:53 AM
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 23, 2010 9:53 AM
And you come across as a misogynist, authoritarian, dogmatic, and very narrow minded Roman Catholic who can't finish a post without reference to a religion that not all citizens of the world adhere to. I'm not surprised that you would cite a book co-authored by the same "George" who just might be the same "George" who is head of the homophobic National Organization for Marriage. But if you want to continue to worship the sacred fetus, with no regard for the woman who carries, it, that's your thing. (And very typical of your church which is the oldest men's club in the world). But please be advised that minds as finely honed as yours disagree with your definition of "babies."
"Petulant little girl" - really? I just might be an older and fairly big boned (good Protestant Yankee stock) woman. But thanks for the sexist shout out.Posted by: Vanessa at June 23, 2010 11:46 AM
"I'm not surprised that you would cite a book co-authored by the same "George" who just might be the same "George" who is head of the homophobic National Organization for Marriage. "
Suppose it is the same George. How does George's being the head of National Organization for Marriage refute his own arguments in the book ``Embryo"?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 23, 2010 11:58 AM
In response to Gerard Nadal's comment yesterday on MD's and PhD's, Nazi death camps were plannned and run by the same. The "sold" idea was that the malignant Jew had to be kept out of the healthy German body. In other words, they had to kill to promote well-being. Ugly things can be wrapped in pretty packages. Many behind The Final Solution had PhD's. It's amazing how people can be extremely bright in certain areas but lack common sense when dazzled by wrapping paper. It goes to show that no one has it all,
except Christ who was a carpenter.
Vanessa, read your history. Look at all the atrocities "lawfully" committed by governments against mankind throughout the centuries: Bloody Mary's purging of Protestants in medieval England, the guillotine rampage following the French Revolution, the slaughter by Nazi Germany of six million jews and nearly 200,000 handicapped. These were "legally" done, so it's obvious to me that something being the law doesn't make it right. As for abortion not being murder, science is more and more confirming the humanity of the unborn child. A fetus may not be "clinically" termed a baby but I doubt Jews were "clinically" termed human by Nazis.Posted by: Lynne at June 23, 2010 12:56 PM
The pro-life movement needs more outspoken PhD's, not fewer. When you get your PhD, do you plan to hide your light under a basket or let it shine? After all of the time, money and hard work, I hope you stand up for LIFE, proudly, and loudly, regardless of what other people may think. All the best to you.
Vanessa: "forced birthing" How spiritually impoverished you are. How sad for you.Posted by: Linda at June 23, 2010 1:31 PM
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon:
where there is doubt, faith ;
where there is despair, hope
where there is darkness, light
where there is sadness, joy
O divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.Posted by: MaryRose at June 23, 2010 3:10 PM
It is incredibly fortunate that we have many individuals from all walks of life, with differing amounts & sorts of knowledge and experience who are actively involved in anti-abortion campaigning of one sort and another. :)Posted by: MaryRose at June 23, 2010 4:57 PM
Did I see a Sven Ghoulie reference in this thread? Awesome! Imagine also the Chiller Theater hand rising up from the podium to grasp the 'trophy' and drag it back down to the netherworld.
Vanessa, oh that 80's rhetoric! Good grief I used to say those things myself! Your teachers must have been my old classmates. Interestingly, most of my friends have gone pro-life now. Amazing what having your own children and seeing them develop will accomplish. As for the sacred fetus, Vive La! I love babies of all ages and sizes, even wee little ones who's hearts just began to beat.Posted by: Ninek at June 23, 2010 7:30 PM
Please accept my apology. I was wrong in what I said and I apologize not just because I was wrong in my assessment of you (I was) since an apology would be in order even if I were not wrong, but because I am truly sorry and downright amazed at what I was capable of. I am not myself today. Not that I offer that as an excuse; there is none. I have been under some fierce attacks of the enemy and shudder that in that I was a part of the enemy attacking someone else and in such a bold way. And repeatedly. I have inadvertently been used by the enemy to hurt people but never just went up and slapped someone right in the face- and more than once for no reason at all. Its scary. Really, really scary. Especially given that the whole time I was thinking, "What am I doing?" I can only assume that because I was so downtrodden it made me feel good to lash out at someone. That is an even scarier thought, especially given the cowardly venue with which I picked the fight. Apparently I have much soul-searching to do.
You were right about projection. My pride gives me a shallow fear that I will be perceived as incapable of doing anything but school (since my calling just happened to involve being in school so long). I feel, immaturely, that I have to vindicate my going to school so much in order not to view myself as such- so I tend to talk more about my work than my schooling when I talk about myself. But that once again is false sense of significance. I'm still in my late 20's for the next few months, so I hope that I can have some grace there as I mature past that.
In sum, please don't think that I know find you "worthy" of an apology since you explained everything that you do- that is irrelevant to the fact that no one is deserving of my venom, least of all a brother in Christ. I am grateful for your work- and even lending a credible and articulate voice to the movement to counter all of the humanists using academics as a pulpit. The fact that you do beyond that in a capacity that I never could is an obligation to support you. The fact that I would hurt you off-hand and for no reason just blows my mind.
Please accept my apology.Posted by: Jacqueline at June 23, 2010 8:01 PM
P.S. It took what you about me hurting your wife that snapped me back from wherever I was. Please extend my apologies to her also.Posted by: Jacqueline at June 23, 2010 8:05 PM
Thank you, and apology accepted. I sincerely mean that.
Next, I really do prefer Gerry to Dr., or even Gerard.
I wish I could tell you what a perfect life I've led and how I've never hurt anyone, but my tongue would snap off its roller if I tried. I too have found myself a dumbfounded observer of myself while doing what I couldn't believe I was doing. It happens.
As for your insecurities, turning 30 hits some harder than others, and the process of doing the Ph.D. is positively nerve-wracking even with the most supportive committee and mentor in the world.
God is calling you to His work Jacqueline, and He will clear the path before you. Don't worry about what you will do, or how well you will perform. Don't get too ahead of yourself: You need to focus on finishing the doctorate first. Then God will open the doors for you. You'll be magnificent with that dissertation monkey off of your back.
No need to justify yourself, or your years in school to anyone-EVER. Just go where God is calling you and know that His Grace is already waiting to sustain you there. Grab as many degrees along the way as you believe will further the cause of rebuilding a Culture of Life and a Civilization of Love.
In the six months since God used Jill and Bethany to push me off of the fence and past my own truckload of doubts and fears, the blog they encouraged me to start has had over 69,000 visits, I have been picked up as a columnist and editor at several publications, and begun to receive speaking engagements galore. I share that with you as evidence of what God will do with us and how he will multiply our efforts when we finally let go and trust in Him.
I foresee that and so much more for you Jacqueline. My email is on my blog and FB page if you want to talk privately as you progress toward completing the degree. Please know that you will be in my prayers. The stress damned near killed me--literally. I wish better for you.
Let's on from this thread, and speak of it no more. Were you close by I'd give you a bear hug and split a bottle of wine with you--so I owe you that until we meet. Keep in touch and let me know if there is anything I can do. Regina has weathered my grad school insanity and says not to worry.
GerryPosted by: Gerard Nadal at June 23, 2010 8:44 PM
Any possibility that the exchanges between Jacqueline and myself can be taken down, just leaving our last entry to one another. Jacqueline's apology clearly merits that those posts not redound to her embarassment.
If you could take them down, I'd be personally very grateful.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at June 23, 2010 8:49 PM
Aw shucks, it's humbling to see the humbling. I must also apologize to Vanessa; in trying to be witty I came off snarky. Vanessa is misinformed, like many people, about the Church. It was Mary Magdalene to whom Jesus first appeared after the resurrection, so I'm sold that it's not an old boys club. In the Judeo-Christian Tradition, women have been tremendously important. Sarah, Hagar, Judith, Deborah, Rebecca, Rachel, Leah, Hannah, Elizabeth, blessed Mary, Mary wife of Cleopas, Mary mother of John-called-Mark, oh, I could go on and on! When did Jesus' first miracle occur? When Mary shot him that 'mom' look before he turned water into wine.
A fetus is a human baby. A fetus may not look like a toddler at only a few weeks, but so does a newborn not look like a teenager. There is nothing less human about those who are very young. As most of us realize, when a woman is pregnant, two individuals (or more if they are twins or triplets) occupy the body: one within. It is only temporary. In a few months, mom has her independence back. Pro-choice advocates are an impatient lot, I say. And even if it is the 'law of the land' it is still murder to kill an innocent person. When a pregnant woman sees her doctor, the dr. has 2 patients instead of just one. Both must be considered, both are equally deserving of their lives. I hope that Roe v Wade is overturned, and that all those employees of abortuaries find gainful employment doing something else. And I hope all post-abortive women and men find the healing they so rightfully deserve. Sorry for my snarkiness; I need to reign it in sometimes.Posted by: ninek at June 23, 2010 9:14 PM
I already apologized to the Wolfman and Dracula. Pairing them with the likes of Carhart and George Tiller was a low blow.Posted by: truthseeker at June 23, 2010 10:41 PM
Thank you for your graciousness and that's very conscientious of you to ask them to take down those posts.
The spiritual attacks I've endured lately have corresponded with my research hitting its climax. The degree was all about doing this dissertation and doing under the auspices of a university so it's not dismissed as the work of a pro-life propagandist (which I'm not). For the past few years, working and in coursework, all I could do was fulfill requirements and double-dip by making the assignments relevant to my policy analysis. Now I'm learning disturbing things- one that the head pro-life lobbyists had a major policy shift due to some bad PR and do not really want reform/saving lives because they would lose their fund-raising power. I'm in constant cognitive dissonance, exhaustion, confusion and upheaval lately. It's a test and it don't look like I am passing thus far. That's why I am glad there are people like you that share my conviction and have run this part of the race.
I think grad school insanity should be certifiable DSM-IV diagnosis. I have lost count of the times I've heard someone say, "I used to be nice. My husband used to like me...Tell me I'll turn back into the person I was before!" I think part of what triggered my episode today was learning that since Obama took away the abstinence grant that I evaluate in order to finance life/school to give our 2.4 million to Planned Parenthood- in the middle of my Fall semester when I am taking exit/comp exams (3 of them, 2 days written, 1 day oral and a week-long take home field exam) and defending my prospectus AND teaching two classes and am therefore unable to find more work to make ends meet- that was likely what sent me into temporary insanity. It was really like being stabbed while flogged and tarred and feathered and ON FIRE. That and I haven't slept in 5 years. That'll do it. I will so take you up on that bottle of wine and any strychnine you might have...
Wanda Franz, President of the National Right to Life Committee, has a Ph.D. She's an excellent organizer, writer, and speaker, so she's someone to aspire to. As for degrees, they are only as good as the person who earns them. Bickering solves nothing, but common sense, dedication, and humility can go a long way.Posted by: Lynne at June 24, 2010 12:06 AM
"abortion remains a legal alternative to forced birthing,
Posted by: Vanessa at June 23, 2010 8:55 AM"
"Forced" birthing???? Wait a minute - noone "forced" your legs apart (I'm excluding rape for now, because abortions on rape victims are a pretty rare minimum), noone "forced" you to have sex, noone "forced" you to get pregnant. So if you did all that with your consent - how can a birthing, that is a natural consequence of sex be "forced" on you???Posted by: Vita at June 24, 2010 6:37 AM
I noticed you had initially recommended prayer to Gerry. If you are Catholic you could try an hour of Eucharistic adoration. The peace of Jesus Christ be with you and also with your spirit.
Don't worry about the state of the pro-life movement, or whether people are more or less faithful. That's a battle for another day.
Right now you have comps to take. When they are done, you should take three days away to rest your body and spirit.
Then you have a dissertation to write. That's fun, because it's all you and your contribution. The test comes in satisfying all of your committee members with rewrites.
Then you have the defense.
Then you need three weeks of complete rest. If you're Catholic, I recommend two weeks at a good retreat house to decompress.
THEN you can focus on pro-life work. Seriously keep your life in perspective. Focus ONLY on the task immediately before you and proceed in a step-wise manner. There are enough of us out here manning the guns while you finish your degree.
That Ph.D. is a fearsome credential/weapon in this war. Your completing it IS your pro-life work right now. Also, don't get too crazed about satan being on your heels. God is mightier by far.
The process really requires your faculty to make you jump through rings of fire, as once you hold the degree you are recognized universally as someone who needs no supervision in how you do research. That said, some faculty can be real b@$t@rd$ about how they treat grad students.
Stay focussed Jacqueline and get my phone number from Jill if you need to call and talk.
Above all, remember that God is in charge here. He'll get you across the finish line, but take it a step at a time. Get some aromatherapy bath crystals and have a good long hot soak while sipping some wine and listening to soothing music.
It's inexpensive and it works.
God BlessPosted by: Gerard Nadal at June 24, 2010 11:39 AM
I will take your advice, and I did stop sidewalk counseling when I started back to school. Unfortunately, my other work (abstinence research) can't stop because it's my divine job to do and secondly, I'm under contract. I find it providential that it ends the exact time that I begin my dissertation. It was a 5-year grant that Obama killed and we're only on year 2. So except for teaching, I will get to focus on just the dissertation. I am praying for dissertation awards to supplement my teaching income for that purpose. This will merit my undivided attention. I am starting to thinking it's otherwise impossible.
What you said, beyond the practical advice, is prophetic- confirmed by so many at so many different points- about how this credential is a critical weapon and any time I spend sharpening my axe is wisely done and nothing to apologize for. I have often felt guilty turning down people that have asked me to write grants but I simply don't have time. As for the practical advice, I get a day between written exams, a week to finish the take-home and a month while the grade them before I take my orals. I then have another month before I defend. Unfortunately, I have big federal reports in the middle. I might get someone to cover for my classes and head to Madonna House in Combermere, ON but more than likely I will have to power through until December when I will have a true break- no classes, no job- I think I will spend that whole month in Canada. I definitely will feel like I had earned it and need it to maintain mental health.
Don't be surprised if sometime in this I do call you and I am incapable of forming words or putting them together in the right order. :)
"Abortion Provider Awards"...... Eeeek! Just the title gives me creeps! It's a competition - who'll murder and suck more babies in more interesting and brutal ways, oh, and if the baby is more than 24 weeks - you get extra points on being a great abortion provider...... I literally feel sick!Posted by: Vita at June 24, 2010 2:08 PM
These awards cause me to wonder... did any of these abortionists, at the beginning of their illustrious careers, go into the bathrooms and vomit in a cold sweat at what they had just done?
Unless you're a deranged murdered, I'd have to think SOME of them went through a desensitization period. I just can't understand it. HOW can you look at these babies and continue this? HOW can you see the birth of your own children...and CARRY your own children, and continue to butcher the children of others??Posted by: Kelli at June 24, 2010 11:11 PM
Gerard and Jacqueline, I went back and deleted several of your posts as you requested. Please let me know if there are any more that you feel need to be removed. Thanks!Posted by: Kelli at June 24, 2010 11:15 PM
Today I got together with a dear friend who has been employed by Planned Parenthood for many, many years. We differ much in our opinions about abortion HOWEVER with love and respect we had a wonderful conversation sharing with each other why we have come to believe in the ways we have - she a supporter of abortion and myself - not.
I came away for our meeting more educated about her beliefs and what brought her to them and she in turn learned of my beliefs and what brought me to them.
We agreed to disagree and wished each other well in our respective endeavors and gave huge respective hugs.
I say all that to say this: Although we come from two very different world views and morals, it IS possible to have a meaningful conversation with someone of opposing views IF one's purpose is to understand rather than argue or convert.
My friend and I will continue to have these conversations in the future while we both continue doing what we feel is our calling.
People are people and we all need and crave respect and love. Maybe, just maybe if both pro-abortion and anti-abortion folks could take some time to get off their respective soap boxes and look honestly into the eyes of each other with LOVE, there would be more conversations, less accusations and a whole lot of love.Posted by: Jae at June 25, 2010 12:57 AM
Why do we continue to allow these idiotic statements and trolling posts from the pro-aborts on this blog. Everyone is well aware that they block everyone who disagrees from posting on their sites, but will bombard ours with their ridiculous rhetoric.
Forced birthing. Hmmm, that is a bit of a dumb statement. What would you call a C-Section? A forced C-Section? People like Vanessa crack me up. It just goes to show how ignorant and close minded they are. They accuse others of being likewise to deflect from their own hate mongering and ignorance. I just love watching people playing projectionist psychology.
In fact, lets continue to have the troll pro-aborts post to get a good laugh at some of the dumb and humourous idioms they come up with. Forced Birthing? If I heard that I would think that would have something to do with induced labor.
The Catholic Church is the oldest Men's Club in the world you say? Well I got news for you honey, Catholicism is based off of Judaism, so you are wrong. By your logic, Judaism would be the oldest men's club in the world, and Protestantism the second Oldest. I take that back. Maybe Hinduism is the oldest Men's Club in the world.
If you were really a protestant, you would not be a pro-abort. Lord knows your ancestors in Salem would be accusing you of witchcraft, with good reason.Posted by: Lisa at June 25, 2010 10:58 PM
Wether or not tearing a babys limbs off is acceptable is not really a valid dialogue. It is patently super-evil.
ICK! Some of those people are just plain scary looking!Posted by: Lise at July 12, 2010 1:54 AM