"Please help: I convinced my wife to get an abortion, now she is crying screaming"

Bryan Kemper found this May 15 post at the Dumps website, where one apparently goes for advice:

crying girl.jpg

I do not want children and after a long debate and a lot of crying (she wants children), I convinced my wife to get an abortion by basically saying that everyone is doing it because the economy is making it a bad time to start a family However, now after the abortion all she has being doing is crying upstairs for the past three days. She has not even eaten, the door is lock and I can hear her scream. When I come up to the door and try to talk to her all she does is call me a pig, and how could I? Which I think is pretty stupid because I did not force her to get and abortion, she did it voluntarily. I never held a gun up to her head and forced her. How is it my fault please help me understand my wife. What should I do now?

I can't add much to Bryan's excellent response, except to answer his question: Prepare for divorce.

This poor girl.

[HT: moderator Carla; painting: "Crying girl," by Edvard Munch, circa 1907]


Comments:

Wow. Just wow.

Let's say I learned I was pregnant... currently, I am not married but am dating a wonderful man and marriage has been discussed often.
Firstly, I would expect him to plan on marrying me in the near future as soon as I told him the wonderful news, assuming it were to happen outside of wedlock... just throwing that part out there.
Secondly, if he didn't take this wonderful news as such, and thought the best idea was that I abort the child, well, let's just say that he and I would no longer be an item.

Lucky for me, this wonderful man is just as pro-life as I am. :)
I love Bryan Kemper's response, too. I don't think I could have worded it any better myself.

Posted by: Desteny Boodt at May 19, 2010 12:47 PM


This guy is in serious danger of losing his wife in any number of ways. One real possibility is by her own hand. He needs to seek professional help immediately. Pray for this couple.

Suicide Warning Signs:
Appearing depressed or sad most of the time.
Withdrawing from family and friends.
Feeling strong anger or rage.
Feeling like there is no way out of a situation.
Feeling excessive guilt or shame.
Experiencing a change in sleeping habits.
Experiencing a change in eating habits.
Experiencing dramatic mood changes.
Losing interest in most activities.
Acting impulsively.
Feeling hopeless.
Feeling helpless.

Posted by: Tommy R at May 19, 2010 12:52 PM


I tried to leave a comment at the Dumps but couldn't. If this woman is crying, not eating, and locked in for 3 days, I hope her husband offers to take her IMMEDIATELY for crisis counseling. If she will not go with him, he can see if she'll go with another family member or a friend. If she won't budge from her room, I'd be inclined to call 911 and have the medics eval whether she is in need of transport for medical and/or psych care.

Posted by: Fed Up at May 19, 2010 12:55 PM


He said it wasn't his fault? He admitted he "convinced his wife to have an abortion" by using the current state of the economy and "its not the best time to have a child" against her. She needs counseling right now. She obviously did NOT WANT the abortion, HE DID. The Abortion was coerced.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 19, 2010 12:59 PM


I probably shouldn't be commenting when I am so angry but here goes.

She wanted children. She had a child that is now dead. She knows this. Deep in her soul she knows this to be true and she went against her own nature as a mother by consenting to the death of her child. Hence, the screaming! She needs help immediately. She very well might be suicidal by now. Call 911, call a friend, call someone!!

You coerced your wife into an abortion. You gave her two lies to help make your case over why it was a good idea she kill your child. You may not have held a gun to her head(does that make you feel better to say that?!)but what "choice" did you leave her? How is it choice when she felt she had no choice but to have an abortion?

I hope and pray that she truly gets help for her post abortion trauma and finds healing and hope again.
I also hope she leaves you, finds a real man and if the abortion did not harm her physically maybe start a family.

I am not going to swear. I am not going to swear. I am not going to swear.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 1:03 PM


That's exactly what I thought... This couple is headed for divorce.

And I think commenter Tommy is right that she needs to be closely watched so she doesn't take her own life.

Oh, this poor lady. While obviously not entirely free of guilt herself, this is just incredibly heartbreaking that this husband -- whose job it is to lay down his life for his family in leadership, protection and service -- pressured her so hard to abort then has the nerve to ask why she is now in torment.

I, too, wish I could take her in my arms, hold her as she screams and gradually help point her to forgiveness and healing in the Jesus. And certainly, that husband desperately needs the Lord, too. Tragic this is.

Get this girl to the safety and refuge of compassionate, godly, Biblical counsel -- NOW.

Posted by: Ruthanne at May 19, 2010 1:04 PM


This is truly a sad story, but -- if this woman knew that her husband did not want children, she shouldn't have married him.

My sister never wanted children, she has cats and she's happy.

Posted by: Phillymiss at May 19, 2010 1:05 PM


Phillymiss,
Too late for that.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 1:08 PM


What a tragedy! I wanted to comment, but can't figure out where to register. Anyway, this poor woman will probably file for divorce as soon as she leaves her bedroom, if she doesn't kill herself first. Jesus help her!!! Only the forgiving love of Christ will ever set her free.

Posted by: Christy at May 19, 2010 1:09 PM


Sounds like we all agree that crisis counseling contact needs to be made with this wife as soon as humanly possible.

* Lord, we humbly ask that you would please meet this woman in her distress. *

Posted by: Ruthanne at May 19, 2010 1:12 PM


This is so sad. We must pray for this man and this woman. It's so heartbreaking.

I certainly don't blame the woman for her reaction. I don't get why the man is surprised by her actions. He admitted she wanted children.

She probably is pretty mad at herself for giving into his pressure and mad at him for pressuring her.

God bless them. They need serious Divine intervention here.

Posted by: Mother In Texas at May 19, 2010 1:17 PM


Just as a reference, here's the National Suicide Prevention Hotline number: 1-800-273-TALK

It's a good resource for anyone who is feeling suicidal or anyone who is concerned that a loved one may be suicidal and isn't sure what to do.

I'm praying that this woman gets the help she needs TODAY!

Posted by: Fed Up at May 19, 2010 1:18 PM


When God confronted Adam after the Fall, Adam deflected all responsibility, even blaming God Himself:

"The woman YOU gave me made me..."

This wife has it exactly right. Her husband is a pig.

From his own mouth:

"after a long debate and a lot of crying (she wants children), I convinced my wife to get an abortion "

"all she does is call me a pig, and how could I? Which I think is pretty stupid because I did not force her to get and abortion, she did it voluntarily. I never held a gun up to her head and forced her. How is it my fault...?"

So the pig obviously twisted her arm with the implicit understanding that this child would be unwelcome and unloved by him. She probably rightly adduced that there would be a frost-filled future between them, and caved to his demands.

"please help me understand my wife."

I've never met a pig who understood love. Were I able to, I would refer him to this piece that I wrote over the weekend about sex and love from the woman's perspective:

http://gerardnadal.com/2010/05/15/women-respond-to-fatherlessness/

It would probably look like this to him:

βϕβϖϖεοιειζωθοπδφγησζνξϖχηδιζσλα,μ χηρκωα,χνχχρυρευηφβχ χκαζζζβξ ησαωεχβχ χδκϕσϕδχ χ χδακϕδσχ ααθλθωωχκλθ;θωϖαααθοχχνβχδϕχμ


"What should I do now?"

DUCK !!!

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 1:24 PM


What a pansy-@ss jerk of a guy. "I only convinced her, but it REALLY wasn't my fault." I wish I could use expletives on this blog. I really do. Ugh, LOWLIFE!!

Posted by: Lyssie at May 19, 2010 1:26 PM


I would agree with a lot of the advice given here and what B. Kemper said to man up to his actions and take the responsibilty and move forward.

This made me think...In the culture of death nowadays...How does a young boy grow up to be like this guy? He was told to "man up"..but does he even KNOW what that really means?

Also, (I'll probably get a lot of hits on this one), How do women even GET to the point of marrying a guy like this? Are women's expectations of a guy so low nowadays that they'll just take anybody who's willing to marry them?

Just asking...cuz I don't know anymore...

Posted by: RSD at May 19, 2010 1:42 PM


Carla,

From the heart of a husband and father, I am filled with contempt and disgust for this pig, aptly described by his wife. Doubtless this touches a very sensitive nerve in you, but don't let it steal your peace, or undo your healing.

My prayer for this woman is that she find a Carla who will walk her home to healing and wholeness.

God Bless.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 1:46 PM


Also, (I'll probably get a lot of hits on this one), How do women even GET to the point of marrying a guy like this? Are women's expectations of a guy so low nowadays that they'll just take anybody who's willing to marry them?

Just asking...cuz I don't know anymore...

Posted by: RSD at May 19, 2010 1:42 PM

clearly, this woman and this man were not a good match for marriage. They have different goals. And, don't seem to understand each other very well.

Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 1:51 PM


here's to your question...."what should I do now?"
Fall on your knees and cry out to the Lord for forgiveness then beg your wife for forgiveness!
I pray the Lord will intervene and heal her and you.
any questions, feel free to contact me.

Posted by: frantz nielsen at May 19, 2010 1:54 PM


Nothing can undo my healing or steal my peace, Gerard. :) Righteous anger at injustice keeps me fighting. Well, that and the love for my daughter.

A woman screaming in a locked bedroom and not eating for 3 days?? And the husband doesn't have a clue. I am praying for this woman and that SOMEONE has come to her and helped her. I know her despair.
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
1-866-482-LIFE(5433)

RSD,
I know women who marry and figure they can change their husbands. They think that maybe he will change his mind about children or whatever...it is a lesson learned the hard way.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 1:56 PM


Hal,
What you don't understand, Hal is that this woman now understands. She knows the depths her husband will sink and she knows she was coerced into killing their own baby. She knows and understands now.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 1:59 PM


Carla, that's probably right. She seems to understand him better, but the husband still doesn't seem to understand his wife.

Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 2:02 PM


RSD,

It begins with courtship as opposed to dating. It requires people understanding that courtship is kinda like a protracted job interview (in addition to the romance) for the most significant job in the world-spouse&parent.

While my heart breaks for this woman, a necessary element in the analysis is to ask why some women are capable of resisting the demands of such pigs and others are not.

To be certain it is wickedly complicated. The woman's economic security, past history of abuse (with related self-confidence and self-esteem issues), extended support network of family and friends, and faith formation are all critical parameters in such a decision made by the woman.

As an effective buttress, we need to be doing a better job at raising our daughters to be strong spiritually, emotionally, psychologically and self-sufficient economically. Sons need strong fathers to teach them what it is to be a man.

In a culture with a 50% divorce rate, unfortunately we have no shortage of sons and daughters without an effective male role model in the home. We need to fix that first.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 2:03 PM


Hal,
Agreed. I went to the blog and one of the commenters stated that the wife was probably just "thinking things through." Yeah. When I think things through I lock myself in my bedroom for 3 days and refuse to eat.

Does this make your heart ache at all, Hal? It does mine. It reminds me of all of the young girls in the recliners after my abortion. So many were crying(loudly)holding their stomachs and some were saying, "My baby, my baby, my baby."
They knew
just as I knew
just as this woman knows.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 2:08 PM


This "man" is exactly what is wrong with the world right now. Self centered. There are so many other things I want to say, but I will say shame on our society and people like this. We need revival, to get back to what is really important--focus on God, hard work, and putting others first. Then this kind of thing won't happen. That woman needs a lot of prayer and a husband who will pray for her and for their marriage. Both need to decide what a marriage is really about: love, family, devotion, selflessness.

Posted by: Jas at May 19, 2010 2:10 PM


What an awful thing for that man to do. I wonder, what can we do to prevent something like this happening in the future? Is it a matter of the woman's self-esteem (ie, she's afraid to lose her husband)? Is it a matter of her not knowing her choices?

I honestly think education is the answer here. Education I feel is the answer to almost any problem we have in the world today.

Women- stick up for yourselves!

Posted by: KushielsMoon at May 19, 2010 2:19 PM


His wife did know that it was wrong to murder her child. No man can make a woman slay her own infant. She has to put pen to paper & sign on the dotted line of the consent form.

Make no mistake, that man has to answer to God for his part in the slaughter of his innocent son or daughter. But, in order for the mother to be forgiven of sinning against her conscience she must repent & cast herself on the mercy of Jesus Christ.

Like every sinner, that man & his wife have no excuse. ALL are WITHOUT EXCUSE (Romans 1:20)

In our study of the scriptures (especially Romans 1:18-32) we see that GOD has given abortion-minded moms & dads just enough knowledge of Himself that they have enough of a measure of inherent understanding to worship GOD as their Creator, righteous Ruler & their just Judge. That is why they stand GUILTY when they refuse to worship & obey GOD their Creator & "Shed not innocent blood". They, like all unregenerate sinners, choose instead to worship (idolize) the creature (self & others who we view as a benefit to us, wife to husband, etc).

I have seen many wives resist the pleadings NOT to murder their baby from their husbands. It can & does go both ways. No matter what anyone says or does, we are all responsible for our sin & cannot blameshift. We don't need a counselor, we need a SAVIOR!

Sorrow over murdering a pre-born baby is not necessarily godly sorrow that leads to repentance unto life. It often is worldly sorrow that leads to death. (see II Cor 7:10) Let's pray for this mother & father to experience genuine, healthy shame & conviction of sin, the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of wisdom & that they be granted repentance unto life & faith in Jesus Christ to forgive & cleanse them by His grace - that they might live to tell of the wonder of His redeeming love for wicked sinners like us.

Posted by: Lifesong at May 19, 2010 2:22 PM


She does need counseling but NOT the secular kind. She needs something like Rachael's Vineyard or another faith-based group who will help her recognize her sin and help her find God's forgiveness and healing. God loves the sinner not the sin but we - sinners, all - have to acknowledge our sinfulness and ask pardon in order for forgiveness and healing to begin. The secular approach to abortion is to justify it and recommend moving on without dealing with the root causes.

Posted by: Sam at May 19, 2010 2:25 PM


Carla, of course my heart aches. This woman did something she clearly did not wish to do. She's very upset about it. Did she adequately express her views before the abortion? It appears she did. Her husband admits he knew she wanted children, and describes a lot of crying while discussing their options. He had his opinion, but does not seem to respect her opinion to the contrary.

Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 2:31 PM


More than that, Hal. Their baby died.

More than a difference of opinion, Hal. He coerced her into an unwanted abortion.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 2:52 PM



"clearly, this woman and this man were not a good match for marriage. They have different goals. And, don't seem to understand each other very well."
Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 1:51 PM


Lamest comment award.


Posted by: hippie at May 19, 2010 2:53 PM


Carla, we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 3:03 PM


Please explain to me how their child DID NOT die in her abortion.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 3:05 PM


Carla, One thing I know after the years I've spent here: I can't convince you of that, you can't convince me of the opposite.

Posted by: Hal at May 19, 2010 3:08 PM


you know it is his falt and will forever be his falt.. he made that child and talked his wife into killing his child...This does not mean he is not a father, it just now means that he is the father of a dead child... and he is a pig!!

Posted by: Auddie at May 19, 2010 3:23 PM


"What should I do now?"

Ask your wife for forgiveness and both head for counseling. Hopefully Rachel's Vineyard. ASAP

Posted by: Maria at May 19, 2010 3:43 PM


One thing I know after the years I've spent here is that hearts have been changed. Praying for you, Hal.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 3:46 PM


How would you feel if this dude (and how do we know that this situation is real?) forced his wife to give birth when she wanted an abortion? Just wondering what you would say if she had the same kind of intense post traumatic indicators, after coerced childbirth, that obtain here. If this situation is true, it indicates that domestic violence might be part of the equation and if so, then this women needs to extricate herself - fast.

Posted by: Sammi at May 19, 2010 3:51 PM


Sammi,
Please refer me to a study that indicates how many women regret giving birth.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 3:56 PM


Unsupportive men make me sick! If you said you loved her and knew she wanted children and didn't want them yourself, you should have quit playing with her mind. She should get herself to a therapist/couseling so she can try to get away from you and not repeat the cycle of stupid men. She deserves so much more than you being an idiot. I agree with commentor Carla and hope she can get help soon and be able to have a child/family.

Posted by: Colleen at May 19, 2010 4:00 PM


He writes, "When I come up to the door and try to talk to her all she does is call me a pig, and how could I? Which I think is pretty stupid because I did not force her to get and abortion, she did it voluntarily."

The father of my aborted child said to me, "you're the one who got up on the table."

I know that is how men see this but they have a bigger part in the decision by saying nothing or , "you do what you want I don't care." We need men to say, "We can do this, we can let this baby live."

This is just so sad...someday maybe they will join the voices of so many of us who are telling our stories.

Posted by: ann marie at May 19, 2010 4:11 PM


Ann Marie,

You got up on the table, but it never should have gotten that far. He should have held you back at the door, begging you without self-conciousness!!

These cowardly statements by the men seem to be their way of dealing with the overwhelming reality of what it is they did either by coercion or passive inaction.

You post-abortive moms telling your stories help to steel my resolve in the work that I do. I frequently think of you all when I write. Your contrition, your love, your courage are absolutely infectious.

I know that I am far from alone in saying that I love you all and pray for you daily.

God Bless

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 4:21 PM


May God help this poor woman and her deceitful husband also. I cannot get over his statement "I didn't put a gun to her head". Wow! Talk about nerve, "I argued with her, she cried, she wants children, I made her abort, I don't understand...). Thank you to all of you post-abortive mothers who share your stories on this blog. I will pray for this woman, I hope she gets the help that she needs.

Posted by: Prolifer L at May 19, 2010 4:53 PM


More than that, Hal. Their baby died.

More than a difference of opinion, Hal. He coerced her into an unwanted abortion.
Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 2:52 PM

and this is why feminists are so scared of the Canadian law that would make this sort of coercion a crime....????

Clearly this man is an narcissist through and through.
To me this is a case of abuse - emotional and psychological.

Here's hoping this poor woman leaves immediately and gets help.
I pray that God will console her, like Rachel weeping for her children.....:(

Posted by: angel at May 19, 2010 5:01 PM


speaking as a wiccan, i do agree on a very spiritual level that this woman needs to seek out some sort of emotional mending to help her through this time of turmoil an deceit. yes, she ultimately made the choice to get on the table, but the steps that led to that final act were the fault of her husband. it is very easy for someone in an emotional state to be coerced and manipulated by another who has little feeling more than an opposing opinion on the subject. this man obviously cannot see life past himself and therefore will only ever see his side. her best bet is to fully severe her ties with this barbarian and start finding peace in herself as an individual.

Posted by: Kat at May 19, 2010 5:30 PM


"How would you feel if this dude (and how do we know that this situation is real?) forced his wife to give birth when she wanted an abortion? Just wondering what you would say if she had the same kind of intense post traumatic indicators, after coerced childbirth, that obtain here. If this situation is true, it indicates that domestic violence might be part of the equation and if so, then this women needs to extricate herself - fast.
Posted by: Sammi at May 19, 2010 3:51 PM"

With childbirth nature has it's way and the mother's instincts kick-in and the immense love she feels for the baby is a reward for all suffering. Childbirth is natural, abortion is not, that's why there's a post-abortion trauma.

Posted by: Vita at May 19, 2010 5:39 PM


Posted by: carla at May 19, 2010 3:56 PM

Why do you think so many women chose abortion? Do you actually think that if they gave birth, they would be thrilled about "the bundle of joy?" I know that you can't understand it; but not all women want to be mothers - and if they don't wish to carry to term, they don't want their bodies used as incubators. Sadly, not all women want to be mommies (nor, in these cases should they be) and abortion provides them with an option other than parenthood. But if they do wish to carry the pregnancy to term, their partners shouldn't force them to abort which begs the question of why this woman agreed to have the abortion - which begs the question of free will - which goes back to the issue of severe psychological abuse on the part of the partner. Looks like in this case, the woman's choice should have been respected.

Posted by: Sammi at May 19, 2010 5:50 PM


I'm currently in a very stressful situation (don't worry, it's nothing physically dangerous) and now I'm counting my blessings. This is the saddest thing I've heard in a while.

This guy sounds like he's about fourteen years old. "She's being stupid, I never made her, it's not my fault." What a comtemptible failure of a human being.

Sammi: If women know they never want to be mothers, why don't they get their tubes tied?

I can understand why a woman who never wanted to be a mother would want would the whole thing to be over with as soon as possible. However, that doesn't mean they ought to be able to end the life of a living, growing human being. No one's advocating making them spend eighteen years raising a child. We're just advocating against women killing people because they're in a situation they don't want to be in.

Also, most women who have abortions don't have them because they flat-out didn't want a baby, ever. By and large, they have them because of a lack of financial or emotional support, which even Planned Parenthood acknowledges.

Posted by: Marauder at May 19, 2010 6:12 PM


"Sammi: If women know they never want to be mothers, why don't they get their tubes tied?"

Posted by: Marauder at May 19, 2010 6:12 PM

I should have said that not all women are prepared to be mothers when they become pregnant. That doesn't mean that they won't want to be mothers at a point in the future when, as you say, they have emotional and financial support. And BTW, if a poor woman doesn't have health care, then the cost of a tubaligation could be prohibitive. I don't know for sure; but I don't think Medicaid covers that procedure. But again, not all women are prepared to bring a child to term when they become pregnant. But for those who are, creeps like this guy should not get between the woman and her choice. Sounds like he needs some serious intervention.

Posted by: Sammi at May 19, 2010 6:24 PM


As a medical professional, I am going to ride the fence on the matter of abortion. BUT as the mother of two lovely little girls, who came at a time when I LEAST needed children in mine and my husband's life, I am going to take agree with the lady. You sir are a PIG, AND A MISERABLE EXCUSE FOR A MAN. Your wife didn't get pregnant by herself, and to use the econmy as an excuse, what idiocy. My children are thirteen months apart, and are 2 1/2 and 1 1/2 yrs of age. I hope she leaves you,

Posted by: christie at May 19, 2010 6:44 PM


Sammi: There are so, so many people willing to help pregnant women and girls in bad situations. Finding them is as easy as Googling "crisis pregnancy centers" or looking up "Abortion Alternatives" in the phone book. The sad thing is that so many women and girls don't know that there are people who will help them. No one should have to die because their mother was poor or their father left their mother or their mother was a teenager when they were conceived.

It seems you're right about Medicaid and tubal ligation; I think it ought to cover voluntary sterilization. Sometimes, people shouldn't do things because of the consequences. They shouldn't overcharge their credit cards when they know they can't pay off the debt, or stay up late when they have an important test the next day, as much as they may want to buy lots of stuff or stay up late. When women are fertile and don't want to give birth, the best move is to not have vaginal intercourse. As much as they may want to have vaginal intercourse without consequences, that's not possible, just like it's not possible to overcharge your credit card or stay up too late before a test without consequences. There are no 100% reliable contraceptives, and abortion ends the life of an individual human being - a unique person with his or her own body, heartbeat, and DNA.

It's not easy to carry an unplanned pregnancy to term if you're in a less than ideal situation. But it's the right thing to do, because every human being should be able to live and not have their lives forcibly ended.

I don't know what country you're from, but America was founded on the principle that everyone should have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. For a long time slaves were denied liberty and the pursuit of happiness - and, sometimes, denied life. It wasn't comfortable for people to realize how wrong their society was. It's never easy to admit that you've done or endorsed something wrong. Eventually, though, people couldn't deny anymore that slavery was wrong.

Now unborn human beings can be denied life, libery, and the pursuit of happiness, just because they had the misfortune to be the children of mothers who felt as though they couldn't raise them. Their mothers aren't monstrous people, just like a lot of slave owners weren't monstrous people. Many of them are just deceived into believing that it's justfiable to end the life of another person in some cases, or that there is no other person - it's all just a blob of cells. Sometimes they're like the slave mothers who killed their children because they knew how much pain and suffering slavery would bring to their children's lives.

Women and girls in crisis pregnancy situations shouldn't have, or be made to feel as though they have, no more options than a slave mother. Nothing good comes out of abortion, just like nothing good came out of slavery. Except for sociopaths, I don't think anyone really wants to kill another person. Even people who kill in self-defense don't really want to kill someone; they want something to happen so that they'll be safe without having to kill someone. Women and girls shouldn't be made to feel as though they have no more options than someone who has to kill another person to survive.

Posted by: Marauder at May 19, 2010 7:02 PM


I tried to find the medicaid policy for my state, because I know that tubal ligation is covered as family planning services.

I know of a lot of women who had tubals immediately after giving birth and medicaid paid for it, but I am not sure of their other requirements.

One of the sites I saw said that 41 states allow medicaid to pay for tubals as family planning.

If I find any more information, I will post the links.

Posted by: Heather M at May 19, 2010 7:24 PM


I think every woman who becomes unexpectantly pregnant wants her man to tell her that everything will be OK and that he is excited about having a baby and wants their child. My husband did just that when I found out I was pregnant with my 4th child and did not know how I could take care of him. I was working full time and had 3 other children. What a blessing my husband was. He told me what I wanted to hear making me feel loved and cared for.

Posted by: Marstar at May 19, 2010 7:39 PM


Sammi,
Many women are coerced and forced and lied to about abortion. They have no idea of the effects that abortion will have on their lives and future fertility. I had no idea. My abortion was in 1990.

You are still a mother even though you have aborted. The mother of a dead child.

Back to the topic at hand....SHE wanted to be a mother, she wanted children but was coerced by her husband. For whatever reason she went through with it and is now struggling.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 7:41 PM


"There is more coverage for sterilization services for women under states’ family planning waiver programs than for men, with 13 states covering tubal ligation that are conducted postpartum and 20 states cover the cost when conducted as part of another procedure (interval). Only 10 states
cover vasectomies under family planning expansions, and only two cover reversals."

http://www.kff.org/womenshealth/upload/8015.pdf

Posted by: Heather M at May 19, 2010 7:42 PM


Marauder,

"It seems you're right about Medicaid and tubal ligation; I think it ought to cover voluntary sterilization."

Did you just say what I think this means, or did I miss something here?

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 8:29 PM


Sammi,
If you knew Carla better, you might not talk like that.

Carla,
Sending my love.

Posted by: MaryRose at May 19, 2010 8:55 PM


This makes me CRY. I just want to hug this woman. Her baby will never return to her but she can someday go to her child. I pray the Lord will heal her heart and reunite them some day in heaven.

Carla...not to be personal. I read your post and was just wondering, did you suddenly KNOW what had happened when you were in recovery after your abortion?

Seems screaming is a common theme in the days and years following an abortion. Many of my post-abortive friends told me how they had laid on the floor of their rooms and screamed into pillows so their boyfriends/parents or whoever would not hear. The feeling of overwhelming loss was so heavy on them it was all they could do.

Posted by: Sydney M. at May 19, 2010 9:06 PM


Gerard: I don't have an issue with people getting sterilized if that's what they want to do. I would never support or encourage involuntary or compulsory sterilization. I would never argue that Medicaid or other medical groups ought to pressure anyone to become sterilized, or that sterilization should be used in a eugenicist way. I wouldn't support doctors suggesting to anyone that they ought to get sterilized.

If people with higher incomes want to have tubal ligations or vasectomies, they're able to do that, whereas poorer people don't always have the money for it. If a woman knows she never wants to have children, or doesn't want to have any more children, I'd rather she have a tubal ligation than get pregnant and have an abortion.

Posted by: Marauder at May 19, 2010 9:18 PM


I think deep down I knew what I had done was wrong but wasn't sure why or what to do about it. I really did want to believe that what I had done was ok. That everything was fine. So I tried to cope with alcohol and partying. My denial lasted for many years and then I could no longer reconcile what I had done in my mind. Miscarrying my second child into my hand was how God woke me up to the truth.

Not to be personal......that made me laugh, Sydney. I have pretty much allowed others in and really don't mind sincere questions.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 9:23 PM


Sending my love to you as well, MaryRose.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 9:25 PM


Sydney,
I remember being really confused by all of the girls crying in the recliners. Wondering why they were crying when I felt so relieved. I thought I was more mature than they were. In actuality they were a lot better off. They were grieving.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 9:38 PM


Why didn't this guy, if he didn't want children so badly, get a vasectomy or, at the very least, use a condom. And why did he marry this woman who wanted kids and then basically guilt trip her into doing something that she never wanted to do? And then blame it on her because it was "her choice"? How did you think she'd react, she wanted children her whole life and you just manipulated her into doing something that was completely against her desires?

If I was her I would've left that scumbag the minute he mentioned the word "abortion" and provided a life for my child and myself. It's too sad she didn't do that and allowed herself to be manipulated by a dirt bag that cares more about his comfort than a child. I hope she finds healing, I can't imagine the kind of pain she is experiencing. I hope she also leaves this scum.

Posted by: militarywifey at May 19, 2010 10:09 PM


"As a medical professional, I am going to ride the fence on the matter of abortion."

Posted by: christie at May 19, 2010 6:44 PM

Sheesh. I don't know you personally, but I have to say that, IMHO, medical professionals have been enablers of abortion for 35+ years. It's truly morally reprehensible. How can you justify "fence sitting"?

Posted by: Janet at May 19, 2010 10:11 PM


Marauder,

My views on sterilization are entirely shaped by my (Catholic) Church's moral norms. I simply do not abide the practice.

However, placing my faith aside I have severe issues with medicaid funding of sterilizations. While I trust in your goodness and decency regarding your support for this, and that you have no eugenist intent, a eugenic field-day would erupt were medicaid monies made available for sterilizations.

Recall that Planned Parenthood operates 80% of its 'clinics' in inner city neighborhoods, that they LIE to young women about the developmental status of the babies they are about to abort, that they pump them full of hormones. Recall too that Blacks and Hispanics make up 25% of the population, but have 57% of the abortions.

If sterilizations become a medicaid-funded reality the Black community will simply cease to exist as a viable people within 20 years.

When my wife was having her third C-section, her doctors recommended tying her tubes, in a Catholic hospital!! What chance would a teenage minority girl stand with two babies?

It isn't the potential for eugenist evil here that is troublesome, it's the absolute certitude of it that is so frightening.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 19, 2010 10:19 PM


"In nearly all states, Medicaid covers sterilization."
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/sterilization-women-4248.htm

I'm just providing information. Don't shoot the messenger. (waves white flag)

Posted by: Heather M at May 19, 2010 11:45 PM


Gerard: Yeah, you're probably right. I'm watching "Maafa 21" on YouTube right now (in bits and pieces, because my Internet connection is awful).

Posted by: Marauder at May 20, 2010 9:02 AM


Just wanted to add for those who say "she made the choice" etc. It seems that people are minimizing the effects of what being in an abusive relationship can be like and can do to a persons "choice." If you have ever spent time at a woman's shelter or know of a woman who has been abused how quickly they feel dehumanized and have no choice and do things they wouldn't have normally chosen to do. We don't know the extent of this couples relationship, but he has volunteered information that are huge warning flags for abuse. Blaming her, coercing her, lying to her etc. All forms of psychological abuse. If he did it once (as shown) he has probably done it before. And if he has done it before then the repetition slowly degrades her self-esteem and voice. She has experienced a double psychological and emotional trauma from her husband and then from the abortion. Being coerced does not make it her choice.

Posted by: Kris at May 20, 2010 9:58 AM


This story just breaks my heart. I agree with the others that the woman needs to be in a supervised environment. The man needs to stop worrying about who deserves the blame and how to help his wife.

I don't know if there's any way to get him that message, but right now his only focus should be keeping his wife safe.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 10:10 AM


"Let's pray for this mother & father to experience genuine, healthy shame & conviction of sin, the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of wisdom & that they be granted repentance unto life & faith in Jesus Christ to forgive & cleanse them by His grace - that they might live to tell of the wonder of His redeeming love for wicked sinners like us."

Done. also: pray for all three: M, F, and baby. And for the rest of us. Only mercy preserves us from what we deserve.

Posted by: Row1 at May 20, 2010 10:29 AM


Reminds me of the inside story on the Lorena Bobbitt case..(Not sure if everybody knows this):

http://www.afterabortion.org/bobbitt.html

Posted by: RSD at May 20, 2010 11:04 AM


Thanks for the link, RSD.

This poor young mother of a dead child, whom she felt compelled to kill, screams.

Jesus cries.

The selfish, shallow, immature, boy bio-dad is clueless.

And satan laughs.

Posted by: Ed at May 20, 2010 12:46 PM


Exactly, Ed.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 20, 2010 12:51 PM


This is what I'm going to pray for both of them:
Father please bring a thought or scripture to this young womans mind that will help her grief to subside. also this husband that was complicite in murdering their baby help him also to know that in life, hope, redemption, and love are always present. Help them feel your love. And help them most of all to forgive themselves.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 20, 2010 5:07 PM


that in life; hope, redemption, and life are always present. And I'm going to add to that, when and if he ever feels a portion of the pain that she is feeling may he know that there is more healing at the foot of the cross then he will ever comprehend and because our Savior bore our griefs and infirmities they do not have too.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 20, 2010 5:31 PM


This is part of what bothers me about the anti-choice movement. I think that a major part of this girl's emotional problems right now are a result of the anti-choice culture that has been fostered over the past few decades by sites such as this and the people who frequent it. Every time you try to say that abortion is wrong, murder, whatever, you're spreading harmful ideas into the public discourse that get picked up by vulnerable young women such as this and can really be dangerous if they decide to exercise their right to terminate their pregnancy. If this man wants to help his wife, he needs to keep the lines of communication open with her and explain that what she did was not wrong. Seeking therapy might be a good idea too. I hope things work out for this couple.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 5:39 PM


Marissa, no on has to tell you that killing your child is wrong. It is written on your soul. The young woman is feeling pain because she knows that she has done something terribly wrong and she rightfully resents her husband for pushing her into the decision. Telling her that what she did is a-ok isn't going to solve the problem. You can't quiet your conscience with platitudes.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 6:26 PM


Marissa-
I think she has a conscience and a heart and that is why she cries.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 20, 2010 6:33 PM


I see that Jill and the mods are still letting poisonous, racist, hate-filled bigot Melissa post here even after she called Cardinal Azinte (sp?) a "witch doctor". This woman wanted to have a baby and to be a mother Melissa, now she is the mother of a dead baby. She did something very wrong and she knows it with every fiber or her being and she went against her God-given maternal instinct. It may be the only child she will ever be able to conceive. No one knows. My friend was told by her horrible ex-husband to abort her one and only son or he would kick her out on the streets. She was forced to leave. Later she met a wonderful man and remarried they were NEVER able to have more children. But today has her wonderful son and 2 precious grandbabies because she refused to do what this woman did. KILL HER CHILD IN THE WOMB. You are sick woman and pathetic human being Melissa with PADS-Pro-Abortion Derangement Syndrome. Go away.

Posted by: Prolifer L at May 20, 2010 7:00 PM


"This woman wanted to have a baby and to be a mother Melissa, now she is the mother of a dead baby."

This woman obtained an abortion entirely of her own free will. She's an adult completely capable of making her own decisions and neither she, nor any woman, needs patronizing comments from people like you who apparently feel that the place of a woman is barefoot and in the kitchen, pumping out babies.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 7:09 PM


Marissa,

You are so deluded.

This is part of what bothers me about the anti-baby movement. I think a major part of this girl's emotional problems is that now, she fully realizes she just killed her child!

She's inconsolable! She just killed her own baby!

Her heart isn't as hard as yours Marissa.

I'm sorry but it's true.

Did you read the article written by abortionist Lisa Harris who admitted having a strong emotional reaction when she was killing a preborn child the same gestational age as her own child. Her little girl kicked her in the tummy just as she was ripping the leg off of another child the same age and it freaked her out.

"As I reviewed her chart I realised that I was more interested than usual in seeing the fetal parts when I was done, since they would so closely resemble those of my own fetus. I went about doing the procedure as usual.... I used electrical suction to remove the amniotic fluid, picked up my forceps and began to remove the fetus in parts, as I always did. I felt lucky that this one was already in the breech position – it would make grasping small parts (legs and arms) a little easier. With my first pass of the forceps, I grasped an extremity and began to pull it down. I could see a small foot hanging from the teeth of my forceps. With a quick tug, I separated the leg. Precisely at that moment, I felt a kick – a fluttery “thump, thump” in my own uterus. It was one of the first times I felt fetal movement. There was a leg and foot in my forceps, and a “thump, thump” in my abdomen. Instantly, tears were streaming from my eyes – without me – meaning my conscious brain - even being aware of what was going on. I felt as if my response had come entirely from my body, bypassing my usual cognitive processing completely. A message seemed to travel from my hand and my uterus to my tear ducts. It was an overwhelming feeling – a brutally visceral response – heartfelt and unmediated by my training or my feminist pro-choice politics. It was one of the more raw moments in my life."

And then she wrote about this thought-provoking experience:

"As a third-year resident I spent many days in our hospital abortion clinic. The last patient I saw one day was 23 weeks pregnant. I performed an uncomplicated D&E procedure. Dutifully, I went through the task of reassembling the fetal parts in the metal tray. It is an odd ritual that abortion providers perform – required as a clinical safety measure to ensure that nothing is left behind in the uterus to cause a complication – but it also permits us in an odd way to pay respect to the fetus (feelings of awe are not uncommon when looking at miniature fingers and fingernails, heart, intestines, kidneys, adrenal glands), even as we simultaneously have complete disregard for it. Then I rushed upstairs to take overnight call on labour and delivery. The first patient that came in was prematurely delivering at 23–24 weeks. As her exact gestational age was in question, the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) team resuscitated the premature newborn and brought it to the NICU. Later, along with the distraught parents, I watched the neonate on the ventilator. I thought to myself how bizarre it was that I could have legally dismembered this fetus-now-newborn if it were inside its mother's uterus – but that the same kind of violence against it now would be illegal, and unspeakable."

You really should educate yourself by reading the whole article Marissa: "HOW LATE IS TOO LATE FOR PROVIDERS?" (Published in a peer-reviewed abortionist periodical.)

You know, if you gave it some serious thought and contemplation, your heart might soften enough so that you'd start having some empathy for preborn children. That would be a great first step in your journey out of the emotional prison you're in.

Posted by: Ed at May 20, 2010 7:13 PM


You racist bigoted troll you, you have no idea who you are talking to and what I think about women and what I do for women. I refuse to waste precious time posting to you. Shoo fly, go away you pathetic troll. I get sick to my stomach talking to you. Good bye.

Posted by: Prolifer L at May 20, 2010 7:20 PM


"Seeking therapy might be a good idea too." No doubt.

Marissa, You need therapy more than she does but you don't even know it.

Posted by: Praxedes at May 20, 2010 7:24 PM


"This woman obtained an abortion entirely of her own free will. She's an adult completely capable of making her own decisions and neither she, nor any woman, needs patronizing comments from people like you who apparently feel that the place of a woman is barefoot and in the kitchen, pumping out babies."

The woman obtained an abortion because her sorry excuse for a husband used emotionally manipulative measures to push her into an unwanted abortion. You might call that choice, but I don't. I call it abuse. Recognizing that the woman made her "choice" out of such abuse and that she is now suffering greatly is not patronizing, it's accurate. You are so dismissive of HER desire to be pregnant, it's disgusting. You're as bad as her monster of a husband.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 7:32 PM


Her husband is not a monster. He did not manipulate or coerce her into having an abortion. Did he influence her decision? That does seem to be the case, but that is how marriages work, isn't it? Your mindset here is just offensive. A woman who made a hard, emotional choice could not possibly have done so unless she was coerced, abused, forced into doing it--this is a classic misogynistic attitude that has been used to undermine women's rights for centuries--we're just too stupid to make our own choices in life; everything we do is to please men, etc.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 7:45 PM


seems to be that she WAS coerced into an abortion she did not want. She wanted this baby and that's why she is in such distress after being told by her husband that "the economy isn't right for a child right now".

The husband admits he "convinced his wife" to have the abortion. She was emotionally manipulated into the abortion. She needs therapy right now before she does something drastic.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 20, 2010 7:48 PM


You're right Prolifer L, Marissa is a complete waste of time.

She doesn't want to know the truth.

She will know the truth one day, hopefully before her eternal destiny is sealed forever.

Posted by: Ed at May 20, 2010 7:52 PM


"Her husband is not a monster. He did not manipulate or coerce her into having an abortion."

He openly admits that he did. From his whinefest " I convinced my wife to get an abortion by basically saying that everyone is doing it because the economy is making it a bad time to start a family "

Are you seriously defending someone who is using the "everyone is doing it" arguement to convince his wife to kill their child? Seriously? I thought we all had that course on peer pressure in 3rd grade.

"A woman who made a hard, emotional choice could not possibly have done so unless she was coerced, abused, forced into doing it."

No, woman can make horrible decisions all on their own. This woman did not. She wanted to have the child, her husband used abusive, manipulative tactics to get her to abort. She rightfully resents him. Pretty simple.

"this is a classic misogynistic attitude that has been used to undermine women's rights for centuries--we're just too stupid to make our own choices in life; everything we do is to please men, etc."

No, this is an understanding of relationships. Something you obviously lack.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 9:09 PM


Obviously I can't rationally discuss this with you because of your unrelenting attitude towards abortion. If it was the woman who wanted the abortion and the man who didn't, she'd be the monster you're castigating here. If they both agreed that abortion was the best course of action, they'd both be monsters to you. And if the woman was skeptical about staying pregnant and her husband had (using your definition of manipulation) manipulated her into keeping her unwanted pregnancy, you'd be praising him. But what else can I expect from someone who is so inconsiderate of the person she's arguing with that she continues to try and control the discussion by referring to abortion as "child killing" despite knowing full well that this is a completely subjective choice of words.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 9:35 PM


"But what else can I expect from someone who is so inconsiderate of the person she's arguing with that she continues to try and control the discussion by referring to abortion as "child killing" despite knowing full well that this is a completely subjective choice of words."

No. A human offspring at any stage of development is a child. That child is killed by abortion. There's nothing subjective about that. I'm not hiding behind language by using euphanisms.

You aren't attempting to "rationally discuss" anything. You have brought enough strawmen to the arguement to fend off all the world's crows. You refuse to acknowledge that a man who openly admits that he "convinced" his wife to abort through peer pressure just might be manipulative. Instead, because of your irrational defense of abortion, you berate anyone who defends the woman against such abuse.

Consideration for your feelings means very little when we are discussing ripping other human beings apart limb from limb. If that makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should reexamine exactly what it is you support. No words I could use or pictures I could paint could acurately reflect the horror of abortion. The truth is ugly.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 9:45 PM


Oh, and Marissa, don't pretend that you ever attempted to discuss the issue rationally. I very logically debated you regarding the objective nature of morality and you ran away mid-debate.

Posted by: Lauren at May 20, 2010 9:58 PM


Well Marissa,
any thoughts on the screaming, locking herself in her bedroom and not eating for 3 days?? She's just having a timeout, huh?

What part of SHE WANTED THAT CHILD do you not understand, Marissa? She was manipulated and coerced by the ONE person that could have said, "It's going to be ok. Everything is going to be fine. We will get through this together. I will stand beside you. I know you want our child."

He's a pig and you don't even recognize it.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 20, 2010 9:59 PM


I get that the ONLY choice that proaborts support is abortion.

What? Have the baby with help and support? Really?
What? Put the baby up for adoption? No way!

Women deserve better than abortion and I happen to think that you don't believe half the crap you write here, Marissa.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 20, 2010 10:10 PM


I think Marissa is just coming here because she's hurting. And just needs some healing.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 20, 2010 10:17 PM


"This is part of what bothers me about the anti-choice movement. I think that a major part of this girl's emotional problems right now are a result of the anti-choice culture that has been fostered over the past few decades by sites such as this and the people who frequent it. Every time you try to say that abortion is wrong, murder, whatever, you're spreading harmful ideas into the public discourse that get picked up by vulnerable young women such as this and can really be dangerous if they decide to exercise their right to terminate their pregnancy"

Yes Marissa, it's called conscience formation-and you have none. You are amoral, which is why you could look at the process of conscience formation and describe as a pathology.

It explains how you could regard African slaves to once have not been human.

It explains why you refer to an African Cardinal of the Catholic Church as "a third world witch doctor".

You have come here and shaken the mud from your sty all over everyone. Carla tells you that the husband here is a pig and you don't even recognize it. Of course not. Sty-mates never do.

That's YOUR pathology.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 20, 2010 10:31 PM


"You refuse to acknowledge that a man who openly admits that he "convinced" his wife to abort through peer pressure just might be manipulative."

Peer pressure? Do you even know what this means? One spouse influencing the decision of the other spouse is not "peer pressure."

"Instead, because of your irrational defense of abortion, you berate anyone who defends the woman against such abuse."

Give me a break. Defending? Nobody asked you or anyone else here to "defend" them from their choices. Your logic can be used to justify any intrusion into private affairs.

"Consideration for your feelings means very little when we are discussing ripping other human beings apart limb from limb."

It has nothing to do with my "feelings" and everything to do with showing some basic respect for the other person you are arguing with. I'm trying to use neutral terminology here--simply "abortion"--and you're slipping in value judgements with turns of phrase of like "child killing." Of course, you're so far gone when it comes to this topic that you can't even recognize when you're blatantly using subjective words and phrases.

"Well Marissa,
any thoughts on the screaming, locking herself in her bedroom and not eating for 3 days?? She's just having a timeout, huh?"

I've already shared my thoughts on this. People cope with their grief in different ways--and for the record, I believe that at least some of this grief comes from an emotional response to common (mis)perceptions about abortion that people like you and the other anti-choice activists actively promote. A good example of this is Lauren's earlier "ripping limb from limb!" hyperbole; the vast majority of abortions are performed before there are any discernible "limbs" to be ripped, but hey, don't let simple facts get in the way of some perfectly good hysteria.

"What part of SHE WANTED THAT CHILD do you not understand, Marissa?"

Oh, okay, she wanted to keep her pregnancy, but she's such a dumb, stupid, vulnerable, weak female that she let a big strong man bully her into doing something she didn't want to. I wish you could see the danger of pushing this victim mentality; it sets women's causes back considerably. But I guess that's what you want, right? To drag the rest of the world back into the 1950's where you're more comfortable.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 11:11 PM


what the hell... you people care about a collection of damned cells instead of the 46 billion animals that are terrified and murdered in slaughterhouses. This is insane!

Posted by: Missy at May 20, 2010 11:34 PM


Missy-
Would you mind giving us the first initial of your last name. Thanks.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 20, 2010 11:38 PM


Marissa
This woman wanted the child. Her husband harrassed, brow beat, and harangued her to abort until she was sobbing. He kept it up past that point, maybe even increased it, seeing that she was obviously weakening. This is emotional abuse. He did not give up until she gave in. Now she is devastated, because she got rid of a child she really wanted. But you pro-aborts refuse to admit that abortion isn't for everyone.
No, instead you blame the pro-lifers. It's their fault that this woman is suffering. Yeah, right; sure, uh-huh. It's not that she was pressured into an unwanted abortion. It's those who don't like abortion. Give me a break!
If her husband had pressured her not to abort, he would have been a monster to you. But if HE wants the abortion, then he can do no wrong in your eyes.
Many women are killed by partners who are angry they won't abort, and you pro-aborts have a deafeningly loud silence on this. Where is your outrage about this violation of a woman's right to choose?

Posted by: Ceecee at May 20, 2010 11:59 PM


"This woman wanted the child. Her husband harrassed, brow beat, and harangued her to abort until she was sobbing. He kept it up past that point, maybe even increased it, seeing that she was obviously weakening. This is emotional abuse. He did not give up until she gave in."

Really? You were there? You must have been, since none of this is contained in the original posting at all.

Posted by: Marissa at May 21, 2010 12:16 AM


Night. Oops! Morning. But still bedtime.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 21, 2010 12:43 AM


Missy is a member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals)

Tell us Missy, since I'm a biology professor, what are your thoughts on the use of fetal pigs in anatomy labs all across America in high schools and colleges?

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 21, 2010 1:03 AM


Dr.Nadal-
I think I know who this is. Pray for her. She's
just hurting whoever she is.


Posted by: myrtle miller at May 21, 2010 1:35 AM


Myrtle,

If I've learned anything in 49 years, I've learned to obey the advice of wise and holy women. Consider it done.

Missy,

Ignore my comment and read this instead:

http://gerardnadal.com/2010/05/20/pope-benedict-love-truth/

God Bless

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 21, 2010 5:22 AM


"A good example of this is Lauren's earlier "ripping limb from limb!" hyperbole; the vast majority of abortions are performed before there are any discernible "limbs" to be ripped, but hey, don't let simple facts get in the way of some perfectly good hysteria."

Wrong, dear. Limbs begin to form at 4 weeks post conception. Keep swinging and missing though. It really makes your side look good.

"Peer pressure? Do you even know what this means? One spouse influencing the decision of the other spouse is not "peer pressure.""

When he uses the argument that "everyone is doing it" it most certainly is. Do YOU know what it means? Obviously not.


Posted by: Lauren at May 21, 2010 8:23 AM


Marissa~
You can hate. You can badger. You can deny, scream, rant, rave and yell. You can spew verbal vomit at anyone with foaming at the mouth rage. You can kill your own unborn child. But no matter what you do, no matter how horrendous. You will always be loved. God loves you Marissa. He's waiting for you and will never disappoint you, will never abandon you. You were made in his image Marissa. He's waiting. He loves you very much. Praying for you.

Posted by: Kris at May 21, 2010 8:35 AM


"What part of SHE WANTED THAT CHILD do you not understand, Marissa?"

Oh, okay, she wanted to keep her pregnancy, but she's such a dumb, stupid, vulnerable, weak female that she let a big strong man bully her into doing something she didn't want to. I wish you could see the danger of pushing this victim mentality; it sets women's causes back considerably. But I guess that's what you want, right? To drag the rest of the world back into the 1950's where you're more comfortable.

Posted by: Marissa at May 20, 2010 11:11 PM


Girl,
You seriously need some education and fast. This poor woman is not dumb, stupid, vulnerable or weak. Nobody here has said that. I challenge you to post the name of the commenter that has said that. You can't so keep spewing. Is a rape victim not a victim? Is a victim of abuse not a victim?

I have been in a physically, emotionally and sexually abusive relationship. Yep. Before you start typing the phrase Get counseling, Carla please know that if you have never been in an abusive relationship you simply have no idea what you are talking about. When someone tells you they love you and then pressures you to go against your very nature and do things you would never consider doing, it's abusive. Plain and simple. When someone asks you to marry him and then the next day beats you up and demands the ring back you are a victim. I allowed it and now I don't.

This woman went against everything she once believed and that is why she is locked in her bedroom screaming. She allowed a man to manipulate her into killing their child. Not rhetoric. Fact. Truth.

What do I want? I want this woman to leave her pig of a husband. I want her to understand that nobody should be treated this way. I want her to get help to pick up the pieces and get into abortion recovery and leave him. Did I say that already? Yes. LEAVE HIM!!

I am praying for you, Marissa. You are so completely naive and I fear for you.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 8:50 AM


Hi Bryce.

"I don't think "God" would "eternally punish" someone for making a choice that would benefit not only them, but the child who would be born. I would much rather wait to have children who I could provide with a wonderful life, than have a child that would be given a life that isn't so great."

I think there are many cases of people being born into what seemed like a miserable life, but then they turned out to have a wonderful life. Similarly, people have been born into what was thought to be a wonderful life, but then ended up having a miserable life. To avoid this problem, why don't we just wait until we KNOW what kind of life they ARE HAVING (not what are best predictions say) and if they have a miserable life, THEN kill them? Clearly only people who are actually having a happy life are worth anything, but it is too difficult to predict who will and who won't have a happy life. We should kill those who are having a miserable life based on the fact that they are living a miserable life, not on our predictions. Otherwise, we may end up killing someone who will have a happy life, and that would be morally reprehensible.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 9:00 AM


Bryce,
What choice did she have when he left her with only one choice?!! Abortion!!!

The dynamics of abuse are insidious and you are siding with this man which in fact explains a lot about you. Frightening, really. You are ok with a manipulative, abusive man coercing his wife into an abortion. Wow. Your judgment of her makes me ill.

What is completely missing in the posts from pro aborts?? Compassion for this woman.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 9:11 AM


Anonymous @ 8:51
The foundation of your point is based on a fallacious belief that the purpose and goal of this life is to be devoid of suffering and as perfect and happy as possible. Further, the foundation of your belief effectively eliminates the need and purpose of sacrifice,and a greater good and promotes selfish individual autonomy at the expense of others. If the above was the purpose and goal of this life I can see why you would feel the way you do and cannot understand the why and how we do.

Posted by: Kris at May 21, 2010 9:25 AM


For clarification of my above post it appears that the "anonymous" changed to Bryce at 9:00am. Didn't notice the change prior to posting.

Posted by: Kris at May 21, 2010 9:29 AM


"I have to say, I agree completely with Melissa. Obviously, her busband did not "harass" or "brow-beat" her into getting the abortion. Its his money, his choice also. She didn't have to open up her legs for the abortion. She could have kept it.
HER HUSBAND CAN'T BE THAT MUCH OF A "MONSTER" IF HE'S WORRIED ABOUT HIS WIFE'S WELL-BEING. "

First of all, it isn't his money and his choice. No one can force someone into an abortion because the woman is reliant upon him financially. Further, no woman can be said to have made an uncoeresed choice if the person providing for her financially threatens to withdrawl support if she continues the pregnancy. Worse than simply withdrawing financial support, her so-called husband further manipulated her by using bully tactics such as claiming that "everyone" is having an abortion and reminding her that he did not want children.

Also, the husband is obviously not concerned about his wife's well being. He is irritated with being called a pig and dealing with someone he perceives is hysterical. He tagged his question as "stupid." All he does is deny responsibility in his question. He is not making a real effort to help his wife.

The fact that so many "feminists" defend men who openly push their wives into abortion shows that they care much more about pushing abortion, wanted or not, than they do about women.

Posted by: Lauren at May 21, 2010 9:31 AM


Lauren said: "The fact that so many "feminists" defend men who openly push their wives into abortion shows that they care much more about pushing abortion, wanted or not, than they do about women."

Exactly!

Posted by: Kris at May 21, 2010 10:16 AM


Must be the woman's fault!! Right, Marissa and Bryce?

http://www.lifenews.com/nat6356.html

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 10:48 AM


Bryce-
A child born to a mom who was the victim of rape is just that it's a child. Rape is a crime. A baby is not a crime and cannot be liable for the actions of another person. And your reaction to anyone being attacked is admirable, please extend this same courtesy to the unborn child. And if the plight of women being raped is really the source of your outrage try doing something productive to really help victims of rape. Something where everyone gets to live.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 21, 2010 10:59 AM


Why is it that when women have an abortion, then realize the horror of what they've done...the pro-aborts ALWAYS call them "dumb, stupid, vulnerable, weak female"....?

Are women considered "traitors" to the cause of these femi-nazis if they want to have kids or realize the horror of their abortion?

Are these femi-nazis so afraid of living up to the fulfillment of giving birth and raising kids that they condemn people who do?

*I am just glad that these femi-nazis are a dying breed...when the last one leaves the earth, the pro-lifer's children and their children's children will inherit the earth *

Posted by: RSD at May 21, 2010 11:24 AM


"your reaction to anyone being attacked is admirable, please extend this same courtesy to the unborn child"

WONDERFUL, Myrtle!

Posted by: klynn73 at May 21, 2010 11:37 AM


"Wrong, dear. Limbs begin to form at 4 weeks post conception. Keep swinging and missing though. It really makes your side look good."

"Beginning to form" is not the same as being discernible, which is the word I used. What I said was completely accurate.

"When he uses the argument that "everyone is doing it" it most certainly is. Do YOU know what it means? Obviously not."

Peer pressure comes from peers. Not her husband, who is an equal partner in her marriage and naturally influences her decisions, as no doubt she influences his as well.

" When someone tells you they love you and then pressures you to go against your very nature and do things you would never consider doing, it's abusive. Plain and simple... This woman went against everything she once believed and that is why she is locked in her bedroom screaming."

And how do you know this woman was not already pro-choice, and that she would never have considered abortion? You don't, period. I don't doubt that she feels (or felt, she's probably already over it by now) bad about the abortion, but that is not the same as being pressured against her will to do something she'd otherwise never do.

Your solution to the woman's current problem--leave her husband--is also ridiculous. Going through a divorce is just what the doctor ordered for her, huh?

Posted by: Marissa at May 21, 2010 1:57 PM


To get away from an abusive, controlling man...yes!!! RUN FAST AND FAR!! He needs help to deal with his issues of why he tries to control his wife by manipulation and coercion, she needs abortion recovery and deal with why she allows that kind of behavior from her husband who is supposed to love and cherish her.

Why do you think she is screaming and calling him a pig?? Hmmmmm.

Abortion isn't "something you get over." It isn't something you just "feel bad" about.

How are old you, Marissa?

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 2:04 PM


""Beginning to form" is not the same as being discernible, which is the word I used. What I said was completely accurate."

First of all, you're completey inaccurate that the limbs are not discernible. Go look at a picture of an embryo 4 weeks post conception. Their limbs are as clear as day. Also, the fact that you think that this clarification helps your arguement is laughable. It wouldn't matter if the limbs were visibly discernable or not, what matters is if they exist or not. They clearly exist. Try again.

"Peer pressure comes from peers. Not her husband, who is an equal partner in her marriage."

Are you actually trying to make to say that an equal partner is not a peer? The definition of peer is "a person who is of equal standing with another in a group." Further, her husband was employing the technique of giving the false impression that other of his wife's peers were making the same decision and thus she should as well.

"And how do you know this woman was not already pro-choice, and that she would never have considered abortion? You don't, period. I don't doubt that she feels (or felt, she's probably already over it by now) bad about the abortion, but that is not the same as being pressured against her will to do something she'd otherwise never do."

How much clearer do we need to be, Marissa. SHE DID NOT WANT THE ABORTION. It doesn't matter if she was otherwise ok with abortion in general or may have considered it at another time in her life. SHE DID NOT WANT THE ABORTION.

HER HUSBAND OPENLY ADMITS HE MANIPULATED HER INTO GETTING AN ABORTION SHE DID NOT WANT.

And yet, you defend him because you have a sick, twisted need to defend abortion at all costs. Screw the women who are pushed into unwanted abortions, they don't exist.


Posted by: Lauren at May 21, 2010 2:20 PM


Sady, responsibility ducking males like this so called husband have been around for a long time.

On July 8, 1869, Susan B. Anthony writing about abortion in the “Revolution”: "Guilty? Yes. No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; but oh, thrice guilty is he who...drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!"

It seems as if Susan were talking about this very case.

Posted by: Tommy R at May 21, 2010 2:29 PM


"Your solution to the woman's current problem--leave her husband--is also ridiculous. Going through a divorce is just what the doctor ordered for her, huh?"

As a survivor of emotional, physical, sexual and mental abuse, I, like Carla, recommend this poor woman RUN AS FAST AS SHE CAN AWAY FROM THIS controlling abuser. He doesn't care about her, he cares about himself, being right and owning her (as in property).

Prolifers should not marry Proaborts. I believe this issue should be discussed during dating (and especially before sex). Unfortunately, some proaborts hide the fact that they are proaborts until the poop hits the fan. If he/she tells you they are strictly prolife but pressures you to/gets an abortion, I definitely say divorce is in order.

No, I'm not a doctor but I have a master's degree from the School of Hard Knocks. Unfortunately, my years attending HKS were terrible so I don't recommend this school to my worst enemy.

I hope this woman divorces him and eventually finds a nice prolife man. I have found 'nice' and 'prolife' to usually go hand-in-hand.


Posted by: Praxedes at May 21, 2010 4:00 PM


I have the same degree, Praxedes!!

Hard and horrible years spent at SHK.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 21, 2010 4:23 PM


Marissa...pretty much all abortion clinics will not do a surgical abortion until the 6th week precisely because they want all limbs to be "discernible". The limbs need to be seen so the abortionist can ensure all the parts of the baby are out of the mom so there is no infection. This is not easy to do at 4 and 5 weeks after a suction abortion. At 4 and 5 weeks the baby (though you can see discernible limbs on ultrasound...I know since I saw my son's arms and legs at 5 weeks post conception via ultrasound) is often reduced to mush from an abortion. So most clinics wait till 6 weeks when the baby is a little bigger and a little denser thus ensuring arms and legs can be discerned after the procedure.

So ripping limb from limb is an absolutely accurate description of abortion.

Posted by: Sydney M. at May 21, 2010 9:22 PM


I think deep down I knew what I had done was wrong but wasn't sure why or what to do about it. I really did want to believe that what I had done was ok. That everything was fine. So I tried to cope with alcohol and partying. My denial lasted for many years and then I could no longer reconcile what I had done in my mind. Miscarrying my second child into my hand was how God woke me up to the truth.

Not to be personal......that made me laugh, Sydney. I have pretty much allowed others in and really don't mind sincere questions.
Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 19, 2010 9:23 PM

Carla you've made some fantastic comments on here.
Thank you for your honest and heart-rending witness on this blog.

Posted by: angel at May 21, 2010 9:42 PM


How did you'll arrive at the conclusion that Marissa was Melissa and is there a last initial with that.

Posted by: myrtle miller at May 21, 2010 10:27 PM


Congrats on your graduation Carla! Terrible years but lessons we'll never forget.

Thanks to both you and Angel for your honest and heart-rending witnessing! My best friend had an abortion over 20 years ago and we have gone thru thick and thin together. She turned 43 in January and just had a little boy (4pds 4oz) on May 10th while I held her hand! God is so good to us. You are all such strong women and are my heros.

Posted by: Praxedes at May 21, 2010 11:18 PM


You are welcome!! I am thankful for the degree as I am able to empathize with women in so many situations. Desperate women that are in need of compassion and understanding. What so many trolls here lack.

I am grateful to God for His deliverance in my life and how he has blessed me beyond anything I could have imagined for myself!! My pain has been redeemed and I am free to talk about it! :)

Praxedes,
Congratulations on the baby boy and if your friend needs someone to talk to please let me know.

Angel,
Thank you for always being there for me. Sometimes I wonder if I share too much but then I really don't know any other way to be. I want to share with the world what my abortion has done.

Myrtle,
I think a missy commented once about animals and there was a commenter that called Marissa Melissa.
I think.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 22, 2010 7:01 AM


Carla, you don't share too much. For those of us who have not experienced abortion your accounts are eye-opening, and more importantly heart-opening. Which sounds a little cheesy, but honestly, for me, coming to this site and reading your story has changed how I view women who abort. I will admit I harbored anger towards these women and dislike, and for some (like late term aborters) I actually felt hate. I thought it was my righteous anger over what they had done to their children but now I see it wasn't right. I see now, from "knowing" you, that Christ loves these women and weeps for them as they weep. Who am I to hate when I am also a sinner unworthy of Christ's love and forgiveness and yet He gave it to me so why should I resent that He offers the same to post-abortive moms?

You have really changed how I react to moms who have had abortions. I feel much love and sympathy now and compassion and I'm sure I would not have had a change of heart if it wasn't for you. Especially the burning anger I felt hearing some of my post-abortive friends defend their abortions and spout all the pro-choice crap we've all heard. Now I see right through it. I see their defense mechanisms only because you opened my eyes Carla. So thank you for being so willing to share something so very personal. HUGS!

Posted by: Sydney M. at May 22, 2010 1:14 PM


Hey Sydney,
Thank you for your sweet post. I love you. I appreciate so much that you know and understand what I try to convey. Regardless of the circumstances of abortion, a woman is ALWAYS deceived. ALWAYS. Abortionists are deceived as are everyone who works at an abortion mill. The prince of darkness laughs. There is a promise that abortion HELPS or HEALS or EMPOWERS. It does none of those things.
I know it is hard to not judge them. I read some pretty harsh words aimed at post abortive women on other blogs. I will burn in hell, God will never forgive me, I got what I deserve etc. So I guess I can educate those in the prolife movement who have anger that is misdirected. Hate the injustice and have joy in the ones who choose life and find their way back home to Him after abortion. There is joy in knowing that abortion will one day be no more!!

Your comment made my day!! :)

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 22, 2010 7:53 PM


Just coming in on this conversation today.

Wow. Carla and all of my other sisters in grief, this is a powerful study in the personal dynamics of abortion. This is my story; the only difference is that MY screaming didn't come until 18 years after my two abortions. It took the birth of my second living son, and a year later, the grief hit me like a truck on the freeway.

And, no, it wasn't because of some pro-life tv ad, or seeing a sign featuring an aborted fetus, or some pro-life "zealot" screaming in my face; it was internal, something from deep inside me, that was jarred by the sight of my two living sons' sweet, growing and changing faces. It's like in the Titanic when Jack asks Rose "How did you find out I didn't (steal the diamond necklace)?" and Rose answers "I didn't. I just realized I already knew." That sums up my abortion experience. The moment I was on the table and the suction machine began, I knew and I cried "my baby" but there was no going back and I guess that, in order to protect my psyche, I just moved on and put on my "game-face". 18 years of "game-face" can really affect a person, as I soon found out.

The year of my awakening was the most gruesome so far in my 41 year-old life; screaming and crying to the point of vomiting; depression; crash internet courses learning facts about fetal development that I had self-protectively avoided all my life, even through my two pregnancies that I carried to term (isn't the human mind incredible at protecting us?); learning the facts about the socio-political aspects of abortion; realizing the cover-up that has been going on for decades, and facing the fact that I fell for the lies hook, line and sinker. Anger. Rage. Self-loathing. Viewing myself as gullible and stupid. Guilt. Blame. all of the ugly, evil things that the devil makes us feel. I now feel somewhat whole and Forgiven, but it took me 3 years and I'm still developing ways that work for me of making sense and use of my experience to help others. It will take the rest of my life.

I have forgiven my old boyfriend for coercing me to abort our two children, even if I haven't told him personally. Maybe I'll do that someday. Who knows, maybe he doesn't give a crap, but I'll probably tell him anyway, just to close that loop.

So, in fact, this poor girl crying and screaming in her locked bedroom, refusing to eat, is actually more advanced than I was; she's further along on her journey from the beginning, that is, if she doesn't lose her life in the process. Too bad she doesn't seem to have anyone looking out for her welfare; instead she seems to have a juvenile, selfish person outside her door trying to cover his own a** while she wastes away from grief and a broken heart. Tragic.

Posted by: Michelle at May 23, 2010 10:39 AM


BTW, it's me PJMama above. I haven't been here in a while but I find it interesting that just when I have the mind to check back in to Jill's amazing blog, this is a topic of conversation. The Lord DOES work in mysterious ways...

Posted by: Michelle a.k.a. PajamaMama at May 23, 2010 10:48 AM


PJMAMA,
Thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate your voice here as it echoes mine and the journey of abortion recovery. Like I said, the girls crying and sobbing about their babies in the abortion clinic KNEW what my mind wasn't about to let me grasp. Denial.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at May 23, 2010 11:09 AM



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