Virgin challenge

gisele2.jpgBrazilian super model Gisele Bundchen issued a challenge this week. In response to the Pope's visit to her country and the Catholic Church's stance on contraceptives and abortion, she said, according to Reuters:

"Today no one is a virgin when they get married ... show me someone who's a virgin!"...

Asked about abortion, she said...

''If she thinks she doesn't have the money or the emotional condition to raise a child, why should she give birth?'...

"'It's ridiculous to ban contraceptives - you only have to think of the diseases that are transmitted without them. I think it should be compulsory to use a contraceptive."

(Forced contraception? And Bundchen says the Pope is "ridiculous"?)

Bundchen added this, according to the AP....

"How is it possible to not want people to use condoms and also not have abortions? It's impossible, I'm sorry."

kaka.jpgWhoops, turns out it is possible not to behave like animals. Bundchen's virgin challenge was quickly answered by another Brazilian, soccer star Kaka:

In an interview for the Italian edition of Vanity Fair, the soccer idol...said that he and his wife Caroline had waited until they were married, and "that time was important, as it tested our love."

The interview with Kaka, who is an Evangelical Christian, appeared just after Bundchen gained worldwide attention by saying: "Today there is no woman who is a virgin when she marries."

Kaka... told Vanity Fair: "The Bible teaches that true love waits until marriage...If our life today is so beautiful, I think it is because we waited."

Are there other reasons besides religious to remain a virgin until marriage?
Can even free love supporters think of any? Wouldn't you honestly rather marry a virgin?

[Hat tip: Lifesitenews.com via Dr. Frank]


Comments:

"Wouldn't you honestly rather marry a virgin?"


no.

Posted by: hal at June 8, 2007 8:04 AM


Poor empty headed Gisele.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:05 AM


"'It's ridiculous to ban contraceptives - you only have to think of the diseases that are transmitted without them.

It's lies like these that spread the aforementioned diseases...

Maybe she should think of the diseases that are transmitted with them. And because of them!

How do we get her to come to our site?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 8:14 AM


Yes, what disease does a contraceptive prevent?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:16 AM


Aside from a condom?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:17 AM


Hah! There is no way I'm going to wait to have sex with my future husband until after we're married. And no, this isn't "horny adolescent Leah" ... I mean, I wouldn't want to end up with someone I'm not sexually compatible with. Yeah, I know, there's more to love/marriage than sex--but it's a part of it! Even though sex is taken lightly these days, people still use it as an expression of love and affection. It's when it is out of love and affection that it is the best!

Yes! I'm getting off track! But I feel very strongly that this is a ridiculous standard and a ridiculous expectation to hold of people to wait until after they're married to have sex. If you want to--that's your choice. Whatever.

But yeah. My answer to the question: no way would I marry a virgin.

The end.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 8:21 AM


Leah, amen.

Posted by: hal at June 8, 2007 8:24 AM


Heather--

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the only contraceptive that can prevent any STIs are condoms. All the other borth control methods only protect against unwanted pregnancy.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 8:24 AM


Hah! There is no way I'm going to wait to have sex with my future husband until after we're married. And no, this isn't "horny adolescent Leah" ... I mean, I wouldn't want to end up with someone I'm not sexually compatible with. Yeah, I know, there's more to love/marriage than sex--but it's a part of it! Even though sex is taken lightly these days, people still use it as an expression of love and affection. It's when it is out of love and affection that it is the best!

What happens if your boyfriend gets into a car accident and loses the ability to have sex with you? Does your love for him stand a chance, or do you seek someone else who you are sexually compatible with?


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 8:25 AM


Okay, I will admit that I don't know a single virgin. Hey, what are you gonna do? I wonder why Leo and she parted ways though...... He didn't have to buy the cow because the milk was free? Maybe he's out there looking for a virgin now.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:31 AM


I don't know, Bethany. I've never been in a situation like that. It would depend on my boyfriend and how serious we were and all that. It would depend on a lot of things.

Love isn't only about sex, I realize. But sex is a part of it.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 8:33 AM


Love and lust can be easily confused.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:36 AM


Of course sex is a part of it, Leah... but pro-choicers have lifted it to a standard that is way above love.

As for your comment about it depending on how serious you were with the boyfriend: Why would you be having sex with someone who you weren't serious enough to love without sex?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 8:38 AM


Leah, can you define love for me? I know it's probably a difficult word to define, but can you perhaps just try, from your own perception of what love is.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 8:40 AM


That's very true, Heather. I do know the difference though.

Lust is simply a feeling that passes. It isn't unpleasant--the contrary. It's a good feeling, especially when it's fulfilled. Lust is simply desire.

But love ... love is amazing. Love is the only thing that really matters in life. Love is the one driving reason to breathe. Love is everywhere. Love is like a fire, reproducing, but never going out--only getting hotter. Love is the fuel of life.

Love makes you feel more happy, more sad, more angry, more jealous, more anything because it is a driving, powerful force that--if it is real--is easily distinguishable from lust.

Lust comes before love, but it is temporary. Love comes slowly, but can last a lifetime.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 8:47 AM


Rae,

The mad world post is going to disappear so I'm moving our discussion here.

Move to chicago and you can live here til you get settled. I've got plenty of room. In my house and in my heart! You can transfer to Loyola, UIC, DePaul or any number of colleges and you'll have a place to stay where you are wanted.

I'll even let you have a pet lemming. But you have to clean his cage and walk him. We also have a dog and a bunny. I'll even forgo the "if you're in MY house you have to go to Mass every Sunday" in deference to you "Catholic aversion".

We can do puzzles at night, watch Johnny Depp movies together, order lemming pizzas, go to the lake, camp (alot) and I'll even wash your hair...

I'd love another "daughter" as I have those five sons and there is way too much testosterone here!

So, what color do you want your room to be?


The one thing I can promise you if you come, is you'll never be bored! And you'll never have "nothing to do on a Friday night!"

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 8:48 AM


Bethany: Oh. I didn't even know you'd asked me to define love ... well, there it is.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 8:49 AM


MK, I want to come and live with you to! Please?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:00 AM


Okay Leah...so do you think that it is a good thing for two people who do not love each other to have sex?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:01 AM


Sooooo....

We've gone from a free breakfast to free room and board? Yikes, how will I break this to the hubby...

All right Heather, pack yer bags...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:01 AM


Leah said: "I wouldn't want to end up with someone I'm not sexually compatible with."

then

"Love isn't only about sex, I realize. But sex is a part of it."

then

"Lust comes before love, but it is temporary. Love comes slowly, but can last a lifetime."

Leah, you don't understand, but you've explained why your original premise is faulty.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:02 AM


Or maybe we could all meet face to face at the March for Life in DC. We can all have lunch, and then the pro lifers will go to their side and the pro choicers will come to our side too. Sound good?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:03 AM


I know, Jill. I realize that my words sort of twist each other into knots. But anyone who's ever been in love would understand. Because that's the way love it. Confusing in every way.

:)

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:04 AM


Heather,

That actually sounds awesome...Even if they don't come to our side, I'd like to meet everyone...

Bring it up again closer to January...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:05 AM


Leah,

If you think of love as something that "happens" to you it can be confusing for sure.

But love, true love, is a verb. It's something you do, not something you feel.

You're answer to Bethany's question about your BF becoming incapable of having sex is very telling!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:07 AM


Oh, Heather. I love you. You're so cute with your feeble attempts to recruit us pro-choicers (which, by the way, I have a lot of respect for you for calling us--instead of pro-aborts--THANK YOU).

Ain't happenin' babe. You're a sweetie for trying, though.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:08 AM


Well then we will all meet up anyway, and you guys can go to the pro choice side after lunch. LOL

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:11 AM


I know what love is, MK. I didn't for a long time, and I have only recently found out. Love, yes, is something that you do ... but it is also something that you feel down to the very depths of your soul.

I realize I probably sound like a bad poet (gross), but I know I am right. Love has brought me to tears. Love is such a feeling that even Shakespeare or any other great writer could never describe it accurately.

And I also realize that my answer to Bethany's question sounded pretty bad. Allow me to clarify: I would never break up with a boyfriend solely for sexual reasons (unless, obviously, he raped me or something)--I was trying to think on a further scale ... but I just came out sounding like someone who keeps her brain in her pants. Which I'm not. :)

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:12 AM


What'll we be eating? Something good, I hope. Do pro-lifers have good taste in food?

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:14 AM


I know, Jill. I realize that my words sort of twist each other into knots. But anyone who's ever been in love would understand. Because that's the way love it. Confusing in every way.


So Leah, are you saying you have love with someone right now?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:16 AM


Yes, Bethany.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:18 AM


I'd like to think so. DC is beautiful. Lots to see. We could visit The Holocaust Museum. That place is fascinating. Then, hit a restaurant. Lots to choose from.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:18 AM


Bethany,I know you were asking Leah and not me, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.

I do think it's okay for two people who don't love each other to have sex. I've had sex with people I love and with people I don't love. I know the difference, and to tell you the truth, it is better when you're in love. However, I've had some amazing experiences with women I was very fond of but didn't love, and am glad for those times too. Life is interesting, exciting, challenging, and sometimes complicated. It's supposed to be messy at times too. Sex doesn't always have to be inflated to some holy level to be an important part of everyday life.

Posted by: Hal at June 8, 2007 9:18 AM


And why does love have to be confusing? I am honestly curious about that. What is confusing about love? I have loved my husband for 11 years and have never found it confusing.
I find it difficult to understand the way you think about this.


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:20 AM


Oh my gosh, Heather. The HOlocaust Museum is the most terrifying, haunting, devastating place I've ever been to. I loved it, but it was terrible. Since you've been there, I assule you know what I'm talking about.

Hal--amen. To every word you said.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:21 AM


Hal, that's why we have such a high demand for abortion!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:22 AM


Hal, I wasn't really asking whether it was okay or not. I was asking whether it was a good thing. In other words, is it truly beneficial to both people involved, if they do not love each other?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:22 AM


New love, Bethany. I haven't been in love for a long time--and I've been admitting that I've been in love for even shorter. It's sort of a whirlwind of emotions. It's wonderful. Just thinking about it makes me incredibly happy.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:24 AM


Bethany, when you ask if it's a "good thing," how do you mean? On a moral stand point? Emotional? Physical?

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:27 AM


Leah, yes it was. The clothing, shoes, rail road car. I still cannot believe that a madman like Hitler killed so many Jews. That's the kind of man that Hell was made for. May he ROT in it!!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:27 AM


New love, Bethany. I haven't been in love for a long time--and I've been admitting that I've been in love for even shorter. It's sort of a whirlwind of emotions. It's wonderful. Just thinking about it makes me incredibly happy.

So love is something that eventually goes away? It is only temporary?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:28 AM


Bethany, when you ask if it's a "good thing," how do you mean? On a moral stand point? Emotional? Physical?

I guess emotionally. If you consider it beneficial, in what ways do ou feel it benefits you to have previously had sex with someone you didn't love, once you are in a relationship with another individual?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:30 AM


No, it's just the confusion that's temporary.

Of course, not all love lasts forever--but I was talking about the confusion ... because that's what you asked about.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:30 AM


No, it's just the confusion that's temporary.
Of course, not all love lasts forever--but I was talking about the confusion ... because that's what you asked about.

If some love doesn't last forever, then was it really love to begin with?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:32 AM


That's a question of personal experience, Bethany (à propos to whether sex without love is emotionally "good").

To me, I emotionally prefer sex after love. But I wouldn't say it's necessarily emotionally "bad" to have sex without love first.

I think the answer to your question would differ with each person you asked it to.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:33 AM


Haven't you ever been in love with someone, then fallen out of love, Bethany?

Sure, it was love at some point--just not the permanent love that many people look for.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:35 AM


That's a question of personal experience, Bethany (à propos to whether sex without love is emotionally "good").
To me, I emotionally prefer sex after love. But I wouldn't say it's necessarily emotionally "bad" to have sex without love first.
I think the answer to your question would differ with each person you asked it to.

Well, for right now, let's just focus on you and how you feel about it. Do you personally feel that you are emotionally benefited by former sex experiences with people you did not love?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:37 AM


Haven't you ever been in love with someone, then fallen out of love, Bethany?
Sure, it was love at some point--just not the permanent love that many people look for.

No, what I experienced was not love. I loved and was not truly loved in return. Much of the time it was because I wasn't willing to put out.


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:40 AM


Emotionally benefited? Not particularly, no. But not emotionally injured, either.

Sort of emotionally neutral. I suppose at the time there was more emotion involved, but these experiences haven't been very important to me ... so ...

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:40 AM


Some inside information of Gisele Bundchen:

I'm from the Boston area and a fan of the New England Patriots.... Tom Brady (quarterback of the New England Patriots) recently left his pregnant girlfriend Brigit Moynahan after he found out she was pregnant. And is now dating Gisele Bundchen... Tom is like the 2nd coming out here in NE. I lost alot of respect for the man after this.

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 9:41 AM


And when I say "loved" I mean that I cared about them. And I still care about them today.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:41 AM


Oh, that's horrible, Bethany. I'm really sorry you had to experience that. It's awful when men don't respect your limits, you know.

To me, it sounds like he wasn't worth your time--though I'm sure you felt differently at the time. Been there.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:43 AM


Bethany: Okaaaay. I understand--got it.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 9:45 AM


Thank you, Leah. By the way I hope I am not annoying you with my many questions. That is how I usually debate. It's how I think...always questioning.

And it wasn't just one guy by the way...there were several of them. Several.... And it hurt every time.


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:45 AM


Yes jasper. Well, he'll probably dump her eventually too. It's like Jennifer Aniston. Brad wanted her to have children. She wanted to wait. BTW, Aniston is pro choice. Brad found someone that wanted kids. Now Aniston is licking her wounds after she carried on like a baby for months.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:45 AM


I don't know about y'all but my definition of love has evolved quite a bit.

The love I felt for my husband when we got married was nowhere near the love I have for him now.

I think most (not all) of us have that initial butterfly love for our partner in the beginning. We *love* how we feel around them, and how we are happy, loving and so forth. That stays when we get married, but to me that isn't what "love" is.

To me "love" is when you truly care for someone apart from any magical feelings that the act may bring. I don't think this type of love is born overnight, or even over months. It's the type
of love that develops over a lifetime.

I think alot of people confuse loving "love" and loving a person. The latter requires sacrifice, but garnishes much greater rewards.

Posted by: lauren at June 8, 2007 9:46 AM


However, on the bright side, it is better that those guys rejected me, because the one who didn't reject me on that basis ended up being my husband...and he is awesome. If I had ended up with any of the other guys (as I have seen them today and caught up with some of their lives) I would have been miserable. God knew what he was doing, that's for sure. He was looking out for me and gave me exactly what I asked for.


By the way, Lauren, I see it exactly like what you just described. 100 percent.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:49 AM


Blah. How come Rae gets to stay and I only get breakfast? How do we feel about that, Val?

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 8, 2007 10:42 AM


Jasper, in reference to your comment on Giselle's boyfriend, I read about the case in People, US, and Good Housekeeping on the celebrity page, and all three magazines stated that Moynahan did not find that she was pregnant until after the breakup.

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 8, 2007 10:46 AM


Ohhhhhh Samantha T,

Not only can you come too, but I'll take you to some amazing churches and show you the saints relics and an awesome bookstore to get books on the "BEST" ooohhhscary miracle stuff...

Actually a camping trip somewhere halfway sounds fun too?

Anybody else love camping? At the very least, it's cheap!

Did you read my post about the latest Medjugorje message?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 10:47 AM


That's very true, Heather. I do know the difference though.

Lust is simply a feeling that passes. It isn't unpleasant--the contrary. It's a good feeling, especially when it's fulfilled. Lust is simply desire.

That's very true, Heather. I do know the difference though.

Lust is simply a feeling that passes. It isn't unpleasant--the contrary. It's a good feeling, especially when it's fulfilled. Lust is simply desire.

But love ... love is amazing. Love is the only thing that really matters in life. Love is the one driving reason to breathe. Love is everywhere. Love is like a fire, reproducing, but never going out--only getting hotter. Love is the fuel of life.

Love makes you feel more happy, more sad, more angry, more jealous, more anything because it is a driving, powerful force that--if it is real--is easily distinguishable from lust.

Lust comes before love, but it is temporary. Love comes slowly, but can last a lifetime.

Love is the one driving reason to breathe. Love is everywhere. Love is like a fire, reproducing, but never going out--only getting hotter. Love is the fuel of life.

Love makes you feel more happy, more sad, more angry, more jealous, more anything because it is a driving, powerful force that--if it is real--is easily distinguishable from lust.

Lust comes before love, but it is temporary. Love comes slowly, but can last a lifetime.

Leah,
I must say I find your above statement very contradictory to your reasoning for wanting to make sure you have compatable sex before you marry.


Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 10:49 AM


Come camp in Ohio. I'll take you all to Cedar Point. Voted the bet amusement park in the world 9 years in a row.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 10:50 AM


MK I did read the latest on Medjugorje! Fascinating...

And can I bring my cocker spaniel? I cant live without Samson.

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 8, 2007 11:16 AM


I can't get on the first post. Anyone else having the same problem?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 11:27 AM


Heather- yep.

Posted by: Erin at June 8, 2007 11:33 AM


I've written the software people. I think MK provoked this with her end times comment... :)

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 11:42 AM


No, I would never marry a virgin. I have unique sexual tastes, and I wouldn't want to put anyone in the position of having to fulfill them without knowing, from experience, what they were. Waiting until you're married is like buying a car without test driving it: sure, it might work, but you never know whether or not it'll work right.

Sex is, to me, the most important part of love: I have a tendency to have entirely male circles of friend, and I can honestly say that I love them all. The ones that I am sexually attracted to end up being the ones I date. I knew it was time to move on from my ex when our desires clashed, and I knew that my fiance and I would be a good match when we slid into sexual activity so easily.

I can't think of any good reason to wait until marriage, to be honest: I used to want to wait, but when I actually became educated, I changed my mind. It was the best decision I've ever made.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:12 PM


No, I would never marry a virgin. I have unique sexual tastes, and I wouldn't want to put anyone in the position of having to fulfill them without knowing, from experience, what they were. Waiting until you're married is like buying a car without test driving it: sure, it might work, but you never know whether or not it'll work right.

So let me get this straight....Marriage is analgous to buying a car? Are you saying that getting married is basically prostitution?


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 12:16 PM


I knew it was time to move on from my ex when our desires clashed, and I knew that my fiance and I would be a good match when we slid into sexual activity so easily.

Didn't you say you had been abstaining with your fiance?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 12:18 PM


Yes, didn't you?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:22 PM


I think that if a woman doesn't wait until marriage, there is always that 50/50 chance that the guy is just paying you some lip service.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:25 PM


Here it is:
Heather, Heather, Heather. I’m not even having sex right now: I haven’t gotten any for two years.

And when I asked her why, here was her explanation:
Why? It�s a very long story. For the first six months, I was still in the tail end of a long distance relationship. Then I broke up with the guy and I wasn�t in a relationship for a while, which explains about six months of it. My fianc� and I dated for quite a while, of course, before I wanted to have sex with him: another six months. At that point, we clashed on the idea of premarital sex and argued about it for another six months. Voila, two years without having sex. That�s all approximate, but the basic gist of it.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 12:29 PM


Bethany, I disagree with the social concept of marriage: I do feel that, in earlier times, marriage was government sanctioned prostitution. What with a bride-price and the tradition of a girl's father "giving her away" at the wedding, I think the parallels are obvious. I dislike the traditional concept of marriage, and so I refuse to incorporate those traditions into my own marriage.

I did say we are abstaining, and right now, we are. This, however, will not last until we are married. This will last until we have a place where we can be together comfortably: I refuse to sneak around like a teenager.

Heather, I believe that comment is beyond judgmental. I don't know one couple who has abstained: either they are still together, or, in one case, the female broke up with the male. I honestly don't know where you get your notions.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:30 PM


THAT IS NOT judgemental!! It happened to me!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:42 PM


It's not some pie in the sky notion. I speak from personal experience.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:44 PM


Less than honest,

Is it OK to abort a 39week old fetus who is perfectlt healty (everybody is fine) can she do what she wants with her body?

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 12:45 PM


It happened to you, that doesn't a 50/50 chance make. It happens, but certainly not to half of everyone who has premarital sex. And frankly, I don't believe that sex ruins the relationship: people ruin relationships. There were likely contributing factors, and the relationship couldn't handle the added intimacy of sex.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:46 PM


Why should we listen to supermodels? I'm not here to judge but a lot of famous people have only a high school degree if that. Unless they have extended education why should we place any weight in their opinions on politics? I mean, honestly, do they know what is best for the public? They are so disconnected with people at large and a lot of American celebs are sucked into their world of Hollywood, they have no idea what is best.


Sorry this may have nothing to do with the story but it's been bothering me for a while. I appreciate advocacy for social projects by celebrities (they want to act "responsibly") but it's important to take their "advice" with a grain of salt. I mean, look at Paris Hilton. She encouraged Americans to vote but didn't even vote herself. She is too much a wimp to face the consequences of a DUI charge. Give me a break!

Posted by: prettyinpink at June 8, 2007 12:49 PM


jasper, until you can provide me with documented proof that your situation would ever occur, I will not respond to your question. This will be the last time I address the issue.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:50 PM


Amen Pippy!

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 12:51 PM


Well, I know plenty of men and women who were hurt from casual sex. I feel that someone always falls harder than the other. These fly by night relationships are one of our main reasons for abortion on demand. People want the sex without the responsibility.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:53 PM


I think a big issue is people not realizing how destigmatized sex has become. At college whether or not a couple has sex, they are still just as much of a couple- whereas it used to be a situation of a couple that was abstaining was more 'serious' or more 'in love' than a couple that liked to get down every once in a while. Sex doesn't ruin relationships. People who make bad decisions or who aren't compatible ruin relationships. Sex is a factor just as much as personal beliefs or moral compatibility. It's a factor in a relationship- not something that endangers it.

Posted by: Erin at June 8, 2007 12:53 PM


"Sex is, to me, the most important part of love"

Less

Less, do you really belive that? What if something were to happen to you where you were unable to have sex? When I was hospitalized for 7 weeks after my water broke I was (obviously) told to abstain.

Those 7 weeks grew my husband and I in so many ways. I learned to love in an entirely different way than I had before.

While I believe sex is an important part of a relationship, I do not believe it is the *most* important part of love.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:53 PM


I think there are a lot of people getting married just because they want to have sex with each other, particularly younger more conservative couples. There is a higher risk of divorce though for non-virgin newly weds, but this is largely attributed to a willingness to break from norms or disregard what others may think of them, rather than anything to do with their having had premarital sex. Interesting is that women who've had more partners and healthy sexual experiences (as opposed to drunken hook-ups) have higher self-esteem, more likely to feel they are beatiful, are more likely to enjoy sex, and are more likely to be happier with their relationships.

Arguments can be made either way, but disregarding the alarmism social sciences of the 50's and 60's, permerital sex is not a bad thing for most people.

Posted by: Cameron at June 8, 2007 12:54 PM


Thank-you Less,

You, Cam and Midnite always fail this simple question. But at least we all know where your coming from......

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 12:59 PM


jasper- what if God told a woman to have an abortion? Should she do it? Or would it be Satan in God's form telling her to do it?

See? Same kind of silly, never going to happen question. It's because that question is ridiculous. Absurdist. Surreal. I can keep going.

Posted by: Erin at June 8, 2007 1:13 PM


Bethany, I disagree with the social concept of marriage: I do feel that, in earlier times, marriage was government sanctioned prostitution. What with a bride-price and the tradition of a girl's father "giving her away" at the wedding, I think the parallels are obvious. I dislike the traditional concept of marriage, and so I refuse to incorporate those traditions into my own marriage.

Less, what makes you think my question was in reference to traditional marriage? I was asking, based on YOUR view of marriage, which you just stated above. You implied strongly through your erroneous analogy of purchasing a car, that before you “purchase” your fiance (marry him), you have to “test drive” him first. This sounds a little bit like prostitution to me. Is the only reason to marry so that you can have sex? Where does the “love” you supposedly have fit into the equation, since you say sex is the most important thing in love? Is that your true perception of what marriage is? If this is all there is to it, why even get married at all? Your perceptions are not based on reality. All you can come up with to refute my question is something about people ages ago who sold their daughters? How is that even relevant? You know very well that is not at all the situation today. Do you know any fathers who have sold their daughters into marriage in America? Didn’t think so.

I did say we are abstaining, and right now, we are. This, however, will not last until we are married. This will last until we have a place where we can be together comfortably: I refuse to sneak around like a teenager.

Okay, if this is true, then why did you say the very reason you chose your fiance was because you two “slipped into sexual activity” so quickly? Sounds like one of these statements you made is a bold faced lie.

Either you and your fiance are very sexually active. Or you’re not. Which is it?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 1:14 PM


Yes PIP, I agree. We have done plenty of talking about celebs on these threads. I think some are well grounded and others are nuts. Tom Cruise being a perfect example of the latter. Giselle should stick to modeling clothes. Tom should stick to acting.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 1:15 PM


Erin: "what if God told a woman to have an abortion? Should she do it? Or would it be Satan in God's form telling her to do it?

See? Same kind of silly, never going to happen question. It's because that question is ridiculous. Absurdist. Surreal. I can keep going."

Ok Less, Erin,

How about a 32 or 33 week old? is it ok to abort them (no problems with baby or mom).

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 1:30 PM


Heather4Life:

I just want to know what you think is wrong about Jennifer Aniston wanting to wait to have children with Brad Pitt. You'd think you'd be more sympathetic for the Ms. Aniston, as opposed to Mr. Pitt, who, in fact, LEFT his wife for another woman. I think her wanting to wait to have children was the MUCH smaller of the supposed "transgressions".

Licking her wounds? I think Brad is truly despicable for not respecting his wife's wishes for her reproductive health. As she would be the one enduring the pregnancy, she should, whether or not she's pro-choice, have the final say on when and if she gets pregnant. The only crybaby in this situation is Brad, who couldn't respect his wife's wishes to wait for children. She never said that she WOULDN'T have kids. He's a spoiled brat who wanted what he wanted NOW.

Posted by: Lyssie at June 8, 2007 1:33 PM


I did say we are abstaining, and right now, we are. This, however, will not last until we are married. This will last until we have a place where we can be together comfortably: I refuse to sneak around like a teenager.

By the way, what do you mean by "sneak around like a teenager"?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 2:00 PM


I think Brad and Jennifer are both spoiled brats! I am not a fan of either one of them. All I am saying is that Brad made a CHOICE to leave her. Jennifer didn't want him, but she didn't want anyone else to have him either.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:04 PM


Jennifer didn't respect Brad either. Didn't her spouse have a choice. He waited it out a while. She wasn't respecting his reproductive rights. It's a 2 way street in a marriage. The man had every right to WALK ON!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:08 PM


testimony from abortion providers:

http://priestsforlife.org/testimony/formerabort.html

from fromer abortion Deborah Henry:

The third type of abortion is the saline, which is done after 16 weeks of pregnancy. This has to be done in the hospital because of complications that can arise--not that they can't arise during other times, but more so now. The saline is injected into the woman's sac, and the baby swallows the saline. It is a salt solution. The baby starts dying a slow, violent death. The mother feels everything. Many times it is at this point when she realizes, or she is facing reality, that she really has a live baby inside of her, because the baby starts fighting violently for his life. He is running and fighting inside because he is burning. Can you imagine the pain? Pour a little bit of acid on your finger and you will realize how much pain that baby must be going through, only he is having it all over his body. This isn't just a small percentage of abortions. It happens quite often.

The women were never given any type of alternatives to the abortion. It was just automatically assumed that they knew what they wanted. They were never told about adoption agencies. They were never told about people out there who were willing to help them--to give them homes to live in, to provide them with care and even financial support. The euphemisms that are used -- clusters of cells, products of conception, or just plain tissue -- are all lies.

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 2:10 PM


Heather4life: we can at least agree on that...they're both spoiled brats in different ways. I don't like either of them. But in this case, I'm wont to side with Jennifer because of the stupid reason that Brad chose to leave her. On to greener pastures, I suppose.

Posted by: Lyssie at June 8, 2007 2:10 PM


What didn't she respect, Heather4life? She said she wanted to WAIT, and as she's the one who would actually be enduring the pregnancy, none of his "rights" were imposed upon. Again, the final say in planning a pregnancy should ALWAYS go to the person who has to deal with it most intimately, the woman. She wanted to wait. And that's respectable.

I could see him leaving if she never wanted to have kids, in which case it would probably have been better to never get married (all couples should discuss the kids issue prior to marriage). It would have been a huge conflict of interest. However, he was very unreasonable to expect her to just get pregnant to satisfy his spoiled whims. He didn't have to sacrifice his body to have a kid.

Posted by: Lyssie at June 8, 2007 2:16 PM


Lyssie, I agree. So much for the rich and spoiled. They will never be happy. jasper, thanks for the link. I have read it before, but it's always a great reminder of the evils of abortion. Could you imagine someone doing this to you? Horrible. That unsuspecting baby is all comfortable, and here comes an evil man/woman to snuff them out. I will never buy the fact that these children cannot feel pain. They have got to. Another blatant lie of the abortion industry.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:19 PM


testing

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:21 PM


Heather,

I was just reading this link for the first time. It makes me so angry, thats why sometimes I get heated with the "pro-choice" people. Do they not see the evil in this...Here we are living our lives and these poor babies never even got a chance


Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 2:26 PM


jasper, I feel the same. I get so ticked off about it. Why does it always boil down to a WOMAN's right to choose. I know some really good men that got screwed royaly when their girlfriends aborted. These guys would have made great fathers. Why not allow them to take the baby? That's why I feel it is a truly selfish act. Nobody's feelings are taken into consideration except the woman. I met a lady who told me "My son's girlfriend murdered my grandson." "I would have taken that child." She was weeping. My heart went out to her.

Posted by: Holly at June 8, 2007 2:36 PM


Ok, just based on my life experiences, the issue of premarital sex is just a personal issue, not a real social issue. Christian/Catholic ideals say to wait until you're married to have sex because it's a symbol of love and unity. That very may well be in their minds, but you gotta test drive the car before you buy it. Sexual compatability is a huge thing in a relationship, in my opinion, and if you don't have sexual compatability, then it throws off the balance between the physical and mental aspects of the relationship. As long as you have a healthy balance between the two, your relationship could last a very long time. Without that balance being maintained, then you could be in some trouble.

This is not to say that every relationship needs sex. I acknowledge that there are many things to do physically besides sexual interaction, and I support it. Doing what works for you is the best thing you can do, as long as you don't push it too far.

@ Jasper:
"How about a 32 or 33 week old? is it ok to abort them (no problems with baby or mom)?"

How many times are you going to ask these questions? Get down off your righteous little high horse and just let it go for a change. Maybe you pro-lifers would get more converts if you weren't so pushy and radical. I mean, come on! I feel like you're trying to pressure me into shooting up heroin! Live and let die, old man, live and let die.

Seriously though, stop asking the stinking question before I blow a gasket.

Posted by: Dan at June 8, 2007 2:37 PM


Yay, comments are back up!

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:59 PM


Comments are back up!

Posted by: tim at June 9, 2007 10:06 AM


Yes, Lauren, sex is the most important part of a relationship to me. I have equally close relationships with my male best friend and my fiancé. What differentiates between the two is the sexual attraction I have for my fiancé, and the subsequent intimacy that is derived from it. If there was a temporary issue where I couldn’t have sex, that wouldn’t be a problem: there are other things you can do besides sex. In the case of something permanent happening, I would probably throw myself into my work. My fiancé and I have already discussed this, and he strongly disagrees with me (he’s perfectly content without sex), which is the only reason why the relationship would continue. I’d fully support him leaving to find someone who was able to have sex.

Bethany, do I really need to go into all the other physical activities my fiancé and I could be doing that don’t involve actual penetration? It’s sexual in nature without being sex, thus, sexual activity. If you want, I’ll explain exactly what we do, but I highly doubt you’d want me to. As both of our respective parents are very religious and against premarital sex, and as both of us are home for the summer and temporarily staying with them, I don’t want to have to sneak around to have sex. That completely destroys any intimacy with the act. Thus, we wait to have actual sex.

I don’t see the point in getting married, to be honest. I don’t recognize it religiously, politically I have issues with it, and you can come pretty close to it legally without signing that marriage certificate. I don’t see the point. As my fiancé is religious, however, he would like to get married, as he does see a point in it. I don’t have a strong opinion against it, and it won’t bother me to be married, even if I disagree with the premise. So long as some traditional elements are removed, I’m fine with it and my fiancé is happy. Why not compromise, then?

My view on marriage is that it’s pointless. A piece of paper doesn’t serve as license to “do it” for me, so that’s not a reason. I’m not Christian/Muslim/Jewish, so religion isn’t a reason. I frankly don’t care if my fiancé and I ever get married. Sorry you saw the analogy as akin to prostitution, that’s not how it’s intended, but the basic premise is still the same. Would you marry someone without knowing whether or not they wanted kids, or were religious? I’d bet not. So why go into marriage with the same ignorance in the sexual arena?

Jasper, have you ever swallowed salt water? Did it burn up your insides and leave you fighting for your life?

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 11:41 AM


I agree with PIP. Who in the heck wants advice from celebrities? I remember actress Helen Hunt wearing a pro choice T-shirt and wearing it in a pro- choice commercial. GAG!! Lady, don't push your views down my throat. She isn't even a talented actress. The Dixie Chicks need to zip their lips too. I think they finally did. I think a lot of them only finish High School... if that. So, now they know what's best for all of us?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 11:45 AM


The third type of abortion is the saline, which is done after 16 weeks of pregnancy. This has to be done in the hospital because of complications that can arise--not that they can't arise during other times, but more so now. The saline is injected into the woman's sac, and the baby swallows the saline. It is a salt solution. The baby starts dying a slow, violent death. The mother feels everything. Many times it is at this point when she realizes, or she is facing reality, that she really has a live baby inside of her, because the baby starts fighting violently for his life. He is running and fighting inside because he is burning. Can you imagine the pain? Pour a little bit of acid on your finger and you will realize how much pain that baby must be going through, only he is having it all over his body. This isn't just a small percentage of abortions. It happens quite often.

My understanding of "saline abortion" is that the saline solution irritates the cervix and causes it to open early, dropping out the fetus. Im a little concerned as I have tried to research the method described here and can only find similar descriptions on pro-life websites, not medical websites. Furthermore, my knowledge of fetal development indicates that the digestive system of a fetus at sixteen weeks' gestation would be far too underdeveloped to "swallow" anything; the fetus gets his nourishment and oxygen thru the umbillical cord and does not swallow the amniotic fluid for forty weeks, so Im confused as to why he would swallow the saline. Im just concerned, for these reasons, that the pro-life movement is pushing some misinformation, which is not necessary. This gives the pro-choicers more ammunition and does not help save babies.

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 9, 2007 11:48 AM


I have read that in this abortion the baby's skin burns. I have to go to a few sites where I read about/studied this.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 11:53 AM


Heather, being in a commercial with a t-shirt is not pushing views down your throat. That's what changing the channel is for. I'm going to disagree with you on the Dixie Chicks: I absolutely love them, and totally agree with them. I think celebrities have every right to speak out and endorse a cause, just as the rest of us do.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 11:54 AM


I went up to MY WEB SEARCH I entered Saline abortion. Info can be found there.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 12:02 PM


Heather, thanks, I did a couple of web searches but was only able to find information from pro-life organizations, which may or may not be credible. If you find a link to a medical website, tho, like the CDC or PubMed, I would be interested in reading it.

I think PIP has a point about the whole celebrity thing. I agree with Less in that they have as much right to express their opinions as anyone else, but I think that people who base their decisions solely on celebrity endorsements are being misled. On the flip side, werent we just the other day bragging about our new American Idol and her trupming the pro-life cause? Consistency is a great thing, guys.

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 9, 2007 12:08 PM


Samantha T. You do have a point as does Less. I will keep looking.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 12:11 PM


May need some help from Jill on this one. I'm not too good at finding links/sites. Or unbiased ones anyway.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 12:14 PM


Basing your decisions solely on celebrity endorsements is idiotic, I'd agree on that. Doing your own research then making up your mind, based on said research, is a much better way to reach an opinion upon a subject.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 12:16 PM


@Heather: I have an on-line friend who is pregnant (she's getting induced today! Huzzah! I gets to be an interweb auntie! :p) who asked her OB/GYN about saline abortions (she asked lots of weird questions like that...lolz) and he told her that the saline irritates the uterus to cause it to begin contractions to expel the baby/fetus prematurely. It doesn't *directly* harm or poison the baby/fetus, it causes a severely premature birth that leads to death due to prematurity.

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 12:30 PM


From one of the midwives at my internship:

Kathy at Mt Sinai ( NOT Planned Parenthood, this is my current internship at the Prenatal Care Access Program with the teen moms)

"I really have no idea where this idea that saline burns a fetus comes from. It makes absolutely no sense. However, there is credibility to a lot of debate about that type of abortion. The saline interacts with the mucus plug in the cervix, which allows the cervix to open prematurely. When the saline enters the womb, it causes the uterus to contract, expelling the fetus and placenta. For an early term non-viable fetus, this wouldn't be an issue, but for later term pregnancies, this method can cause premature live birth, rather than immediate abortion of the fetus. It is also interesting that there is still so much focus on this method, as it hasn't been used in legal clinical practice since the 1980s in the US. In fact, the safety of this method would strike me as more of an issue when it comes to illegal abortions, as it is quite easy for a person of any age to purchase saline and use a home, OTC douche kit with the saline. But no, at no point and in no instance, would saline "burn" any skin, tissue, or organs of an adult, or fetus.


So thats that. I dont think she would lie about this if she was trying to protect pro choice beliefs since she went on to mention that she doesn't think its a good method of abortion at all... and she's been a midwife for 26 years... she does not perform abortions.

Posted by: Amanda at June 9, 2007 12:43 PM


"Rae,

The mad world post is going to disappear so I'm moving our discussion here.

Move to chicago and you can live here til you get settled. I've got plenty of room. In my house and in my heart! You can transfer to Loyola, UIC, DePaul or any number of colleges and you'll have a place to stay where you are wanted.

I'll even let you have a pet lemming. But you have to clean his cage and walk him. We also have a dog and a bunny. I'll even forgo the "if you're in MY house you have to go to Mass every Sunday" in deference to you "Catholic aversion".

We can do puzzles at night, watch Johnny Depp movies together, order lemming pizzas, go to the lake, camp (alot) and I'll even wash your hair...

I'd love another "daughter" as I have those five sons and there is way too much testosterone here!

So, what color do you want your room to be?


The one thing I can promise you if you come, is you'll never be bored! And you'll never have "nothing to do on a Friday night!" "

Thanks for the offer MK! But I have to stay in Minnesota in order to finish my undergrad degree in the time I want. You see, I took college courses while in high school through a program unique to Minnesota and the University of Minnesota was kind enough to actually accept all of those credits when I entered school. So while I've only been in college officially for one year, I have the credit standing of a first semester senior, but because I didn't take calculus-based physics and calculus in high school I have to take them in college which is putting me about a year behind.

So if I transfer out of Minnesota, I lose all the credits I earned in high school and it'll take me longer to reach graduation because I'd have to go back and re-take all those liberal arts classes again.

But I was originally planning to apply to Loyola University, but I ended up not bothering because the U was giving me all of my credits and it was a lot cheaper. :)

And you know what? Because you are kind enough to offer me a place and let me stay there rent-free, I would go to church on Sundays (though I do prefer Saturday evenings as I'm *not* a morning person...I used to hate alter-serving 8 AM mass...), as I do go to church with my grandparents when I am staying with them. :)

You like doing puzzles? My mom sits and does puzzles at night while she watches American Idol and stuff. We literally have nearly 100 puzzles in our basement and my mom has done them all at some point in time.

While I like Johnny Depp, I like Alexander Siddig and Ewan McGregor better. :D

But thanks for the offer :)

I'll get working on that Lemming pizza ad sometime today...I actually have no idea what a lemming looks like. Perhaps I ought to google image search for it.

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 12:47 PM


Hello, cherubs! I spoke too soon- we got nailed with a massive thunderstorm yesterday afternoon and JUST NOW got power back.

Posted by: Erin at June 9, 2007 12:55 PM


@Erin: On Thursday evening I was watching clouds of what appeared to be a very promising severe thunderstorm only to be bitterly disappointed as said storm ended up going north of where I live. I was a sad panda.

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 12:58 PM


I LOOOOOVVVEEE T-storms. I like to light candles and get all spooked out. Pop in the movie Halloween. We had one here yesterday.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 1:02 PM


I would have been excited- except my car broke down right before it hit and I had to sit in my little black bug for about an hour with thunder and lightning flashing around me- the storm was literally RIGHT ON TOP of where I was- and was seriously kinda scary.

My garden got water though. Which means my parsley plant may still have a fighting chance...

Posted by: Erin at June 9, 2007 1:02 PM


I think a lot of the time attaining a celebrity stance gives you a chance to give a larger platform for the things you already advocated for. So its unfair to say that celebrities don't get to have an opinion about social and poltical issues just because their job is to act or sing and they should just "stick to that". I believe Patricia Heaton from Everybody Loves Raymond is a pro-life advocate. Would you also prefer that she shut up and stick to acting?


Also, it stormed here yesterday also. Hard rain and some thunder and a few bolts of lightning was all. Nothing too terribly exciting......

Posted by: JK at June 9, 2007 1:31 PM


JK, I did know that Patricia Heaton was pro life. Boy did she take a beating from some for saying so though. Brooke Sheilds is also pro life. I think it's the way that most pro choice celebs come across. Usually screaming, ranting, raving, and waving coat hangers. Okay fine. They are only people too. Let them have their say. Have any of them ever bothered to acknowledge that women are dying today from legal abortions? I just let people know up front that I don't agree or side with pro choice celebs.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 1:50 PM


But just because you don't agree with their views doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to have them or voice them. I think its great that Patricia Heaton and Brooke Shields use their celebrity status to advocate for causes that they feel passionate about. I respect them because they choose to do something productive even though I am not on the same "side" as they are. It beats wallowing in your fortunes and faceplanting into a mountain of cocaine every night.

Think of the beating the Dixie Chicks took, too. This nation is not as full of "pinko commie liberals" as people like to think.

Posted by: JK at June 9, 2007 2:13 PM


Jill,

Do you still have the video I sent you of the doctor talking about saline abortions. He shows to premature babies? Valerie, Bethany? I deleted it and can't remember where it came from!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 2:14 PM


Hey Rae,

Heather and Samantha want to come live here, but I haven't heard from you! :(

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 2:19 PM


JK, did you ever hear of the DJ Gary Dee?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 2:20 PM


MK, where in the hell are my manners? WELCOME BACK!! I'm packing.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 2:24 PM


@MK: I replied to you up a bit. :)

@JK: "Pinko commie liberal"...that's such a funny phrase. *dons Communist Party shirt*

http://www.threadless.com/product/383/The_Communist_Party

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 2:24 PM


I asked JK about the DJ cuz he always used to say that.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 2:27 PM


Nope, never heard of him, Heather

LOL at the shirt, Rae

Posted by: JK at June 9, 2007 2:35 PM


Rae,

I only do puzzles during lent (no tv) and find that while I don't love the puzzles, I do love the conversations that can be had over them...as well as the competition when the puzzle is close to being done!

As for movie watching, I love all movies and go once a week to the theater (usually by myself...such a great escape)so I'm up for almost any kind of movie except westerns and most sci-fi...

Love to read to...especially scary stuff. Just finished the new Dean Koontz.

My "birth" sister lives in Minnesota and I try to get there once a year so "breakfast" isn't really all that UNdoable. Where in MN are you?

My birthmother lives in St Cloud but she's certifiable and won't talk to me anymore...

My birth brother is in prison near moose lake...
don't know if it was a good thing that I found them all or not...

Actually I love the sister...

Anyway, the offer stands whether it is this year, next year or two years from now. And Saturday mass is perfectly fine! (But you get breakfast out when you go on Sunday!)

I'm a morning person so you wouldn't have to worry about me hounding you all the time as I'll probably be getting ready for bed when yer gettin' up...

But there is still camping...

Lemmings roasting on the open fire, olive smores, thunderstorms and tornado warnings...Ahhhhhhh, I hate my dog! Can't camp til next year...at least I can't let my physical therapist know/i> that I'm camping...evil laughter...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 2:42 PM


@MK: Tee-hee. I live in the suburbs of Minneapolis, though I am officially moving to either St. Paul or Minneapolis in August (gotta find an apartment...). I have a vague idea where Moose Lake is...and I live about an hour and a half away from St. Cloud.

Yeah...I stay up stupidly late, like 2:30 but I do try to get up about 8:30-9:00 because I go to work by 9:30. Except now I have class at 9:30 and my class is about a half hour walk from where I park my car *shakes fist at the U's stupid parking lots* so I have to get up uber early to deal with rush hour traffic.

I don't read as much anymore because I get so tired of reading textbooks all year, but I do love reading realistic fiction medical/forensic stories (lots of the sciences!) and non-fiction books about stuff like ebola or politics.

Olive s'mores? That's an interesting combination...*snicker* I've never been camping actually, my family isn't very "outdoorsy". The closest to camping I've ever been is sleeping in a cabin up at Lake Itasca (the headwaters of the Mississippi River) for a college field trip/orientation thing.

Oh I used to never listen to my orthodontist...I would eat popcorn ALL THE TIME when I had braces. I never flossed. Didn't get a single cavity. It was glorious. ^_^

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 2:53 PM


Rae,

Therese the sister lives in someplace called Zimmerman...ring ze bell?

Where's the haircut picture?

You'll love camping! You wake up and you're already there...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 3:03 PM


@MK: I tried posting it in the Planned Parenthood thread...but there is a screen so it didn't post right away and I have no idea when it will...

Zimmerman, I think it sounds familiar, but only because it's Bob Dylan's real last name. Is it in northern MN?

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 3:07 PM


Rae: Heehee...I have a few Threadless tees myself. My favorite thus far is "you've got some splainin to do".

:)

http://www.threadless.com/product/467/You_ve_Got_Some_Splaining_To_Do

Posted by: Lyssie at June 9, 2007 3:10 PM


Those are so cute.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 3:14 PM


@Lyssie: I love that shirt too...I have way too many threadless shirts now...I've been on a threadless-shopping-binge since I got home from school, but I'm done now. :D

@MK: Here, I'll try posting the pictures of my hair again.

Here is with bangs:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/57148741/?q=by%3Akendranoelle+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 3:15 PM


That looks very nice! Very soft. Is your hair a coffee brown Rae? Hard to tell. I died mine platinum blonde the other day. I was dishwater blonde before. You put the idea in my head.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 3:19 PM


oops meant dyed. Too much peroxide. Seeping into my brain. A blonde moment.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 3:22 PM


And here is "swept to the side" bangs:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/57148662/?qo=1&q=by%3Akendranoelle+in%3Ascraps&qh=sort%3Atime

I don't know what color my hair is, but I do dye it and the last time I did I did a rich chocolate brown because my natural brown is really ashy and kind of gross.

I've always wanted to be platinum blond (I used to be a massive Gwen Stefani fan back when she was in No Doubt...I hate her solo stuff though) but the one time I tried my hair turned a dark reddish gold because my hair was too dark to bleach well.

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 3:23 PM


SamathaT:

The babys lungs fill up amniotic fluid nose and mouth, plus it surronds the babies body. Many of the medical journals "water down" what is actually happening to the fetus with medical terms the typical person wouldnt understand. Plus, I do trust the testimonies of the former abortionists, what do they have to lie about?

Posted by: jasper at June 9, 2007 3:24 PM


It really looks good either way. You have the face for it! I like Gwen too. Not as a solo artist though.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 3:26 PM


I'm a natural platinum blonde...so I'm afraid to change my hair color. It's especially light right now because it's summer. In the winter it gets more lowlights (and looks just as interesting)...but in the summer it's all one really light color. People ask if it's fake...but I love being natural when people pay to have the color I do. Really weird because BOTH my parents have really dark curly hair...while I have stick-straight blonde. :)

Posted by: Lyssie at June 9, 2007 3:27 PM


Rae did I ask you this before? Have you ever been a dancer?

Posted by: prettyinpink at June 9, 2007 3:29 PM


@PiP: I did dance for a couple years in junior high, tap and jazz. Why do you ask?

Posted by: Rae at June 9, 2007 3:32 PM


Rae,

The bangs look GREAT...just the right length.

Heather is right...it softens your face a lot!

Do you love it?

Zimmerman is between Elk River and Princeton...population 11 or something.

You know I have a bum of a son (as opposed to a son of a bum) who is one credit shy of a degree and now living in Cal. He's what we call a free spirit (which is a nice way of "WHEN ARE YOU GONNA GET A REAL JOB?) He loves dogs, pirates (never ninjas) and wants to travel and do some kind of "missionary work" except he doesn't want to do it in the name of religion. He's looking for a girl that wants to have oodles of kids and raise them in some foreign country where he can do "good deeds". That or he wants to be a Chicago Fireman.
He'll always be poor, but tons of fun. For awhile he wanted to be a professional surfer (we kept telling him he didn't live near an ocean), then he wanted to write the great american novel (we told him he should try reading a novel first, now he's teaching at a YMCA somewhere in Long Beach...He lived for a year in Macomb (where he was going to school) without plumbing, electricity or heat...(denies wanting to be the next unibomber...He's 25.

Anyway, I'll throw him in, if you come to stay.
Heck I'll pay you to take him!


file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq_Owner/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Kodak%20Pictures/2005-08-08/027_24.JPG

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 3:57 PM


He's the one in the blue...How much do you want to take him?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 3:59 PM


Yes, yes--I'm responding to things that happened a long time ago ... but I have to catch up!

Jasper said: "The women were never given any type of alternatives to the abortion. It was just automatically assumed that they knew what they wanted. They were never told about adoption agencies."

Hon, do you honestly think that women had no idea that adoption was a choice? Do you really think they were so ignorant? Stop saying stupid things. Do a bit of research--from NEUTRAL sources. And, for the love of everything holy, STOP asking stupid, pointless questions.

Thank you, dear.

Heather4life said: "I LOOOOOVVVEEE T-storms."

ME TOO!!! There's been, like ... two since I've been in France. I almost miss crazy Michigan weather! ... almost ...

Well, I didn't have much to catch up on ... either that or I didn't reread posts thoroughly.

I have a headache. I'm nauseous. I am tired.

Will I go to bed soon?

... Can't sleep either.

La vie n'est plus belle! *cries*

Posted by: Leah at June 9, 2007 5:23 PM



Bethany, do I really need to go into all the other physical activities my fiancé and I could be doing that don’t involve actual penetration? It’s sexual in nature without being sex, thus, sexual activity. If you want, I’ll explain exactly what we do, but I highly doubt you’d want me to. As both of our respective parents are very religious and against premarital sex, and as both of us are home for the summer and temporarily staying with them, I don’t want to have to sneak around to have sex. That completely destroys any intimacy with the act. Thus, we wait to have actual sex.

LOL funny. I hate to break it to you, but all sexual activity is sex. You can put them into categories which suit your views better, but still, sex is sex. I expected this to be your argument though. ;)

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 5:33 PM


Rae, your bangs look great!!

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 5:35 PM


"I only do puzzles during lent (no tv) and find that while I don't love the puzzles, I do love the conversations that can be had over them...as well as the competition when the puzzle is close to being done!"

I love putting puzzles together, MK.

I prefer working on them by myself, though. It's a relaxation thing for me.

Posted by: Heather B. at June 9, 2007 5:39 PM


Bethany,

Bethany, do I really need to go into all the other physical activities my fiancé and I could be doing that don’t involve actual penetration? It’s sexual in nature without being sex, thus, sexual activity. If you want, I’ll explain exactly what we do, but I highly doubt you’d want me to. As both of our respective parents are very religious and against premarital sex, and as both of us are home for the summer and temporarily staying with them, I don’t want to have to sneak around to have sex. That completely destroys any intimacy with the act. Thus, we wait to have actual sex.


As in:

I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 8:02 PM


"Hon, do you honestly think that women had no idea that adoption was a choice? Do you really think they were so ignorant? Stop saying stupid things. Do a bit of research--from NEUTRAL sources. And, for the love of everything holy, STOP asking stupid, pointless questions."

Leah, I didn't say that, I was quoting an abortion doctor

Posted by: jasper at June 9, 2007 8:06 PM


"Hon, do you honestly think that women had no idea that adoption was a choice? Do you really think they were so ignorant? Stop saying stupid things.

Hon, do you honestly think that women had no idea that birth control was choice? Do you really think they were so ignorant?

Well, you seem to think they are pretty dumb if you have to start educating 5th graders on birth control and continue through high school...That's 7 years and apparently they still aren't getting it.

Nobody is hammering away that adoption is available from 5th grade on...and PP sure isn't promoting it...so why exactly would they know about the adoption process...?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 8:20 PM


As in:


I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!

Bingo!

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 8:57 PM


Bethany, I don't know what kind of kissing YOU'RE doing, but if it's sex, I want in on THAT. And if you consider petting to be sex...man, I must be DOING it wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic to have sex with my fiance. The moment I get to jump him, I shall, and it shall be absolutely glorious, and hopefully the few seconds of said glory shall go down in the history books as earth shattering. But believe me, I've not gotten any yet: if I was having sex at all, I sure as all hell wouldn't be on the website. If I was having sex, that would be about all I would be doing.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 11:28 PM


Rae:

You are in Minnesota, correct? I remember a Rae at one of the ballet intensives I attended in Kansas City with KCB--we had a buddy in our group from Minnesota named Rae. Obviously I figured the chance was slim you'd be the same person but I thought I would ask, just in case.

Posted by: prettyinpink at June 10, 2007 12:45 AM


Jasper--I owe you an apology. I was really tired and crabby last night and I shouldn't have snapped at you. *offers a flower* Would you accept a flower from a pro-choicer? I am very sorry.

Anyhow, that former-abortionist didn't know what s/he was talking about.

MK: Excellent question (à propos to b/C). I wonder sometimes, with abstinence-only sex education, how much many young women DO know about b/c. Completely ignorant of its existence? I doubt it. Ignorant about it? Yes. Have you ever seen the teen website of PP? (I know, PP is evil and all that--but this is a rather neutral part where teens are just asking questions to the doctors and stuff) I was AMAZED at some of the questions these poor kids were asking!

"Can I get pregnant from grinding on someone at a party?" for example.

This brings me to a different subject which is not one that is discussed here often, so I'll just mention the topic and not expand. This ignorance is what I believe to be the result of BAD PARENTING.

PP isn't promoting adoption, no. But they aren't promoting abortion either. Look on their website and you will see links about abortion and links about adoption. Admittedly, there are more about abortion but that is because PP provides abortion services--it is not an adoption agency. They will, however, set you up with one if you so desire.

Annnnnnyhow, MK. I love you with all my heart and soul. I had a dream about lemming pizza last night. :)

Ciao, all. Breakfast time ...

Posted by: Leah at June 10, 2007 1:54 AM


Jasper--I owe you an apology. I was really tired and crabby last night and I shouldn't have snapped at you. *offers a flower* Would you accept a flower from a pro-choicer? I am very sorry.

Anyhow, that former-abortionist didn't know what s/he was talking about.

MK: Excellent question (� propos to b/C). I wonder sometimes, with abstinence-only sex education, how much many young women DO know about b/c. Completely ignorant of its existence? I doubt it. Ignorant about it? Yes. Have you ever seen the teen website of PP? (I know, PP is evil and all that--but this is a rather neutral part where teens are just asking questions to the doctors and stuff) I was AMAZED at some of the questions these poor kids were asking!

"Can I get pregnant from grinding on someone at a party?" for example.

This brings me to a different subject which is not one that is discussed here often, so I'll just mention the topic and not expand. This ignorance is what I believe to be the result of BAD PARENTING.

PP isn't promoting adoption, no. But they aren't promoting abortion either. Look on their website and you will see links about abortion and links about adoption. Admittedly, there are more about abortion but that is because PP provides abortion services--it is not an adoption agency. They will, however, set you up with one if you so desire.

Annnnnnyhow, MK. I love you with all my heart and soul. I had a dream about lemming pizza last night. :)

Ciao, all. Breakfast time ...

Posted by: Leah at June 10, 2007 1:54 AM


Bethany, I don't know what kind of kissing YOU'RE doing, but if it's sex, I want in on THAT. And if you consider petting to be sex...man, I must be DOING it wrong.

Yeah, right, Less.

Posted by: Bethany at June 10, 2007 7:14 AM


Leah,

Annnnnnyhow, MK. I love you with all my heart and soul. I had a dream about lemming pizza last night. :)

Either I cry too easily or you guys really have a hold on me...

Funny how we have all come to know and care about each other when we started out despising one another...

At least you had a dream about lemmings...JK was having dreams about decapitated kittens and blamed Jill...

If you saw my son's picture (above-tho you have to cut and paste) and are looking to make a few quick bucks, the offer I made to Rae goes to you too!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 8:00 AM


file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq_Owner/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Kodak%20Pictures/2005-08-08/027_24.JPG

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 8:01 AM


JK was having dreams about decapitated kittens and blamed Jill

That was actually, Jess. :) I've gotten all these J names mixed up before too! :D

MK, if you'll send me those pictures by email, I can post links to them for you. The links you're posting are actually showing the source to be from your documents folder and they aren't visible from here. :)

Hope you're having a great Sunday morning! Our family went canoeing yesterday and it was so much fun. :)

Posted by: Bethany at June 10, 2007 8:13 AM


Tell you what, MK. When I get back from France I'll try and head on over your way for a Sunday mass and a lemming pizza. I'll be home the 10th of July ... only one month from today!

Posted by: Leah at June 10, 2007 8:17 AM


Oh, MK....you know it's true. We all love you. *hugs*

Unfortunately, I live in eastern PA and can't get over to the Chicago area for a lemming pizza...but I sure as sugar will try eventually. :)

*Lyss*

PS: Rae, don't make me take out the Torch of Gondor and club those lemmings over the head for the pizza. :)

Posted by: Lyssie at June 10, 2007 1:20 PM


Bethany: Was that the canoe your hubby was working on? I hope it turned out great if it was! I love to raft and canoe.... once went on a trip for 27 miles on the Delaware River to clean up garbage. It was great. My parents have a canoe and we've all gone whitewater rafting before. I love it. :)

*Lyss*

Posted by: Lyssie at June 10, 2007 1:28 PM


Lyssie, thanks for asking! :) My husband's canoe is not finished yet...unfortunately he was on call for a few weeks and was just too busy to finish it up...but he's hoping to get it finished soon! I think it will be lovely!

If you click on my name, you can see pictures of yesterdays canoe trip. It was actually the first time I've ever been in a boat of any kind before... It was so much fun, and I've wanted to for a while...so it was nice to get the chance finally! The kids absolutely loved it. :)

Oh and I would love to go whitewater rafting! It looks like so much fun. :)

Posted by: Bethany at June 10, 2007 1:40 PM


Leah, Alyssa, and Rae,

So it's a date with Leah and Rae...middlish of July, and Alyssa, no worries, Lou to Go will send great Chicago Pizza anywhere in the country...and yes, they just put fluoridated Olive/Lemming on the bill o' fare...While the three of us are eating ours in Chicago, we can all be on the computer with you eating yours delivered in dry ice and cooked in your very own oven....

mmmmmmmm....hope none of you are vegetarians! I think Lemmings fall into the "meat" category!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 2:28 PM


Bethany,

It's actually the picture I sent you if you still have it ... if not, I'll forward it again. And thanks... I was getting worried that NO ONE was going to take him off of our hands... He's not that awful!

Maybe post it on a newer thread so it doesn't get dropped!

You are the Best!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 2:29 PM


@Pip: My name *really* isn't "Rae", it's my middle name though, so no, that most likely wasn't me as I can't do ballet worth crumbs (too tall...the flexibility of a cement block etc...). :D But that would have been creepy wouldn't it have been?

@MK: Middlish July isn't gonna work for me! I have classes starting tomorrow that last from 9:30-1:30 every day except Friday and I also work from 2-5 or 6(probably later even on some days). I just keep telling myself...two more years until undergrad is done. ^_^ But then I have another 2-3 years of grad school to look forward to! Eep!

Posted by: Rae at June 10, 2007 2:57 PM


Rae,

Rats! I mean Lemmings!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 3:18 PM


@MK: Me sorry!!!!! I was gonna try to go to Chicago around June 16th to see a concert but none of my friends wanted to go. :(

Posted by: Rae at June 10, 2007 3:21 PM


Leah: "Anyhow, that former-abortionist didn't know what s/he was talking about."

ohhh, OK.

Posted by: jasper at June 10, 2007 8:12 PM


MK,

What is a Lemming?

And I am very hurt that you thought I was the one who had a dream about Jill eating kittens or whatever. I adore kittens and would be terribly traumatized if I saw someone eating them.

:-)

Posted by: JK at June 10, 2007 9:23 PM


@JK: A lemming is a cute li'l rodent that lives in Alaska and Canada and northern regions.

Posted by: Rae at June 10, 2007 9:29 PM


Cool :-)

Posted by: JK at June 10, 2007 9:33 PM


I'm in the same boat as Rae...summer classes until end of July. We're both gluttons for punishment.

Posted by: Lyssie at June 10, 2007 9:42 PM


Okay!

Early July for Leah, End of July for Alyssa and Rae.

JK: Sorry babe. It was on another post and the "J's" confuse me...Jasper, Jess, JK,...Forgived?

First weekend of August I go camping in Indiana to something called the Leprechaun Fest. $35.00 gets all you can eat ribs, chicken, burgers, lamb, dogs, salad dessert, beer, wine, soda, popcorn and snow cones. Hayrides take you onto 180 acres where you "hunt" for Leprechaun statues. Find one, turn it over, and win anywhere from $5.00 to $1500.00...Irish Music and really bad raffles.

Plus you get to camp!

Let me know who's in and I'll send details.
Bring your neices and nephews as kids 17 and under are FREE!

It's awesome...

Gonna repeat this on a new thread as it is Monday and Jill should have a lot of new posts today...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 11, 2007 8:26 AM


MK, that sounds friggin' awesome. I'd love to do something like that, but I fear that I won't be allowed to drive to Chicago. LOL. Unless I go with the boyfriend....and I have a feeling you won't let us bunk together. *giggle*

Posted by: Lyssie at June 11, 2007 5:40 PM