There have been many comments on statistics the past few days. This will add to the conversation.
A note on this clock from the designer....
I designed this clock for the morbid curiousity in all of us. There's just something about watching those numbers increment. View this clock on its own page at worldclock.htm [where you can also view data sources]. It is also available for free to anyone who wants to place it on their own webpage, myspace profile, or blog.
The author is right. There is indeed something about watching those abortion numbers. I'm not experiencing a sense of morbid curiosity by watching them, however. I'm experiencing extreme angst.
I also note STD/HIV/AIDS dwarf all other infectious diseases. Interestingly, we promote and teach prevention to stave off all infectious diseases but STD/HIV/AIDS. For STD/HIV/AIDS we implausably promote and teach the risky behavior causing them and then promote and teach deficient methods to avoid their consequences.
Ya, I know quite a few people with HIV. It's a horrid illness!Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 10:45 AM
I have a friend in a band signed to Universal whose wife works with HIS infected people as a social worker in Eastern Indiana. All of them are gay dudes.
Its still a gay disease.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 11:11 AM
Whoops! meant to say HIV infectedPosted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 11:17 AM
Zeke, not only is HIV a mostly heterosexual disease, it's also a mostly Christian disease.
You've really gotta get out of Indiana more often.
From a Christian website:
HIV/AIDS and Christians in Africa
Africa for more than a century has been the great Christian mission field. If, like me, you belong to a church in the evangelical stream, the chances are you are helping support Christian mission activity somewhere on the continent. You probably get occasional reports from the field, detailing the challenges and successes.
Are we wasting our money?
Last week’s United Nations “Barcelona Report” on the global HIV/AIDS epidemic is devastating in its portrayal of the crisis that has engulfed sub-Saharan Africa, where a dozen countries have an adult (those aged 15 to 49) infection rate of more than 10%.
The report doesn’t have much to say about the role of religion, which is possibly just as well for those of us who are Christians. For the question needs to be asked: What has Christianity been doing as this crisis developed?
Using the Operation World Christian handbook, I have taken rates of religious adherence for each African country and placed them next to the adult HIV/AIDS rates from the Barcelona Report. What a depressing exercise.
Here are the 10 most Christian countries in Africa (according to Operation World) and their adult HIV/AIDS infection rate:
Christians (%) HIV/AIDS rate (%)
Congo (Dem. Rep.) 95.3 4.9
Equatorial Guinea 95.1 3.4
Angola 94.1 5.5
Congo 91.3 7.2
Burundi 90.1 8.3
Uganda 88.7 5.0
Zambia 85.0 21.5
Swaziland 82.7 33.4
Rwanda 80.8 8.9
Malawi 80.0 15.0
But where the figures get really depressing (for an evangelical Christian) is when you realise that in general the HIV/AIDS rate is highest in those countries where Protestants and other non-Catholic Christians predominate.
Here are the 20 most non-Catholic Christian countries in Africa and their adult HIV/AIDS infection rate:
Non-Catholic Christians (%) HIV/AIDS rate (%)
Swaziland 78.0 33.4
South Africa 65.2 20.1
Ethiopia 64.4 6.4
Namibia 64.0 22.5
Botswana 63.2 38.8
Zimbabwe 63.0 33.7
Malawi 57.1 15.0
Kenya 56.0 15.0
Ghana 53.2 3.0
Central Af. Rep. 51.7 12.9
Zambia 51.6 21.5
Congo (Dem. Rep.) 50.8 4.9
Uganda 46.7 5.0
Eritrea 43.7 2.8
Cameroon 42.5 11.8
Congo 42.0 7.2
Nigeria 39.2 5.8
Rwanda 38.2 8.9
Mozambique 36.8 13.0
Lesotho 35.8 31.0
If you are not already sufficiently depressed, look at a table for the 10 most Muslim countries in Africa:
Muslims (%) HIV/AIDS rate (%)
Somalia 100.0 1.0
Morocco 99.9 0.1
Algeria 96.7 0.1
Libya 96.5 0.2
Senegal 92.1 0.5
Gambia 88.8 1.6
Mali 87.0 1.7
Egypt 86.5 0.1
Sierra Leone 70.0 7.0
Sudan 65.0 2.6
In church we are told that one of the reasons we should support Christian missionary activity in Africa is to stop the spread of Islam. In the words of Operation World: “African Christians as well as mission agencies need to make Muslims a priority for demonstrations of the love of Christ and culturally sensitive approaches must be developed for planting churches among them.”
Yet as AIDS rips at the heart of the continent - devastating families, gutting townships, wrecking national economies, creating millions of orphans - it looks to be Islamic culture that has solutions of a sort.
Nicholas Kristof wrote a nasty article in the New York Times on Tuesday, blaming “conservative Christian pastors” particularly, for contributing to hate speech about Islam in the US. (He even managed to find two such pastors, one of them quite well-known.)
But he also wrote this:
Islam already has 1.3 billion adherents and is spreading rapidly, particularly in Africa, partly because it also has admirable qualities that anyone who has lived in the Muslim world observes: a profound egalitarianism and a lack of hierarchy that confer dignity and self-respect among believers; greater hospitality than in other societies; an institutionalized system of charity, zakat, to provide for the poor. Many West Africans, for example, see Christianity as corrupt and hierarchical and flock to Islam, which they view as democratic and inclusive.
On no young woman would I wish genital mutilation, minimal education, a life behind a veil and a husband with several wives. But what if the alternative were a husband who contracts HIV/AIDS from frequent visits to cheap prostitutes, giving his wife a painful death at age 30 and leaving behind six young children?
I simply don’t have answers. I’m no expert on HIV/AIDS or on Africa. I’m just an ordinary guy sitting in front of a computer, playing with figures on a spreadsheet. I’m sure it’s all a heck of a lot more complicated than the numbers suggest.
Yet I believe we Christians are called to be accountable for our actions, individually and as a church. And so I cannot help wondering if Christian leaders in Africa and their supporters in the West are not responsible in some measure for the crisis over there.
Two months ago I wrote a commentary about Papua New Guinea. I noted that it is, according to the Operation World handbook, the fourth-most Christian large country on earth (97.3% of the population are said to be Christian), yet it is facing an Africa-style AIDS crisis. My sarcastic conclusion then is perhaps also appropriate now:
What on earth are church leaders teaching their 97.3% flock (or is the problem all the fault of the other 2.7%)? What messages are the missionaries bringing? Should I be directing my tithes elsewhere? Or should I just sit back content in the knowledge that so many are going to heaven?
July 12th, 2002Posted by: Laura at September 6, 2007 11:24 AM
Thank you Laura.Posted by: Hal at September 6, 2007 11:46 AM
In the USA its a almost completely GAY disease. When it came here it was first called Gay Man's Bowel Syndrome.
ALSO, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IN AFRICA ACTUALLY HAVE HIV!
The reason why is, at Bethel pointed out in the Politically Incorrect Guide to Science, that when determining if some African has HIV they DON'T EVEN DO AN HIV TEST!
They could have a moderately bad case of the flu and be diagnosed with HIV.
So, from what we know about how Africans "test" for HIV (which they don't actually test for) the number there that have HIV could very likely be more like 1/10th what it actually is or even less. It wouldn't surprise me.
Anyways, I don't care a wit about Africa and the problems those people ahve made for themselves. I care about my nation, the USA, and in the USA HIV is a disease that exists alrgely among gay men.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 11:47 AM
"Are we wasting our money?"
YES! Much money spent on missions is a waste. I condemn those who spend $1000s to run off to Mexico or Central America or Europe to help build a building of some sort of put on a puppet show as many youth mission groups do.
Its vile to ignore the crisis of babies being slaughtered in your own backyard and then claim that God has called you to go halfway around the world to hang out with people whose language you don't speak for a week.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 11:50 AM
I will tell you that the males I know/knew with HIV/AIDS, were gay men. Were they religous? Not really. They claimed to believe in God, but church and worship are out of the question. The women I know/knew with it were either infected via IV drug use, or sex with an infected partner.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 11:51 AM
One of my gay friends still has no clue who infected him. He was diagnosed in 2004.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 11:55 AM
Zeke, are you honestly saying that those fulfilling God's commission are "wasting their lives?"
While I believe every christian should help end abortion,I also believe that every christian should further the kingdom of God.
Do you not realize that YOU were one of those lost people in a far away world until God commanded Paul to reach you? Without mission work, many many people would die without the knowledge of our Savior.
Furthermore, do the people who have contracted AIDS deserve nothing? Are we not called to bring the gospel to them as well? Yes, they have (probably) sinned, but haven't we all? If we do not reach out to them, they will die without knowing of the love of Jesus. That will be OUR fault.Posted by: lauren at September 6, 2007 11:59 AM
lauren, I agree. The disease is torture!Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 12:01 PM
I really hate to burst your bubble. But the HIV infects black heterosexual women more every year than a homosexuals. Get your facts straight. It is NOT a gay disease!!Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 12:20 PM
Zeke- If I believed in hell, I'm pretty sure that you would be there before a lot of atheists would.
I won't say anymore on this because I seriously will start saying super nasty things.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 12:23 PM
"Its vile to ignore the crisis of babies being slaughtered in your own backyard and then claim that God has called you to go halfway around the world to hang out with people whose language you don't speak for a week."
While I see your point and think that a right to life should be our first priority, we cannot just simply ignore those who are suffering and in need. In Matthew 25 Jesus tells us that what you do to the least of my brothers you do to me. This includes people in all nations, of all "sexual orientation", and of all ages. AIDS is a terrible, terrible disease, and regardless of how many homosexuals have it (I have no idea nor think it matters if it is more popular among "gays"), all those suffering from it are worthy of our love and help. Hate the sin, love the sinner. God love you, Zeke.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 12:34 PM
This world is just a mess! Guess what types of men would often pay visits to my gay male friends?.....married!Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 12:36 PM
Zeke, we must always also remember the age old adage "If not for the grace of God, there go I."Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 12:36 PM
You guys havce to learn how to think and reason. Apparently, it aint coming naturally to people anymore.
FIRST, of course HIV is rising among black women with their HIGH use of needles for their drug use and the high amount of dabbling in gay sex that their men engage in. A guy wrote a book a while back on the commonness of black men experimenting with gay sex he titled Keep It On The Downlow.
Still, the GREAT majority of those with HIV in the USA are gay men.
As far as TO WHOM we should be ministering to, God has laid out how that is to work. You ALWAYS start within your own family and then work outward to your own community (local members of the Body of Christ) and then to the other members of the Body outside your area and then to the lost in your area and then beyond.
God makes this clear when He gave the qualifications for a bishop, which was to rule over his own house well. God always starts from the immediate circle of family and friends and then works outward.
When Christ told the Circumcision Believers how to go about converting everyone to Judaism in Acts 1:8 He did just that saying get Jerusalem converted, and then Judea, then Samaria, and then the rest of the world. Of course, we know that Jerusalem never was converted and as a result Christ did not come back and instead He cast away Israel and rose up Paul so he could work to bring about and build the Body of Christ apart from a converted Israel's help in doing so. Even apart from James, Peter and John's help in doing so, and even in spite of their hindrance ("men from James" Gal 2).
Anyways, anyone who claims that God wants them to raise $1283 (per person) so they can spend a week with others in their high school youth group in El Salvador for a week where they just pass out The Book Of Hope (which does not even contain Paul's gospel since it only quotes some of Jesus' words from the 4 Gospels) while ignoring the violent slaughter of the innocent that goes on in their backyard, is anathema.
[ I know a gal in Kenosha, WI who did this a few months ago with her youth group. This is a real example that just happened. ]
Let the sodomite in San Fran die from his vile behavior (as God said would happen Rom 1) and set to work to stop the violent slaughter of the most defenseless and innocent in your backyards.
If you wanna help Mexicans, if you wanna help build them something or share the gospel with them or feed them, then just drive a few miles to the area where a bunch of illegals have moved into. There is no need to go all the way to Mexico. They've come up here. Hey, that must mean its God's will for you to evangelize those Mexicans since He brought them up here to your area!
:)Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 1:23 PM
I love it, God brought the illegals up here so we can evangelize to them. I guess we can stop oppossing illegal immigration. It's just God's plan after all.Posted by: Hal at September 6, 2007 1:27 PM
Hey Bobby, when Jesus talked about the least of His brothers, He meant specificly Jews as in the blessing and curse attached to how we treat Jews that God gave in Genesis (bless Israel and you'll be blessed, curse Israel and you'll be cursed).
But, think of this. Even if this statement did apply directly to those of us in the Body of Christ (which it may still in some way, though irrelevant to a person's salvation) how about we care for those "brothers" in our area. See, we all have limited resources, especially financial resources.
Let's not misappropriate money on LONG DISTANCE, EXPENSIVE, SHORT TERM mission trips that are done MOSTLY for the fact that they are "fun" and "exciting" places to go and minister to others.
Anyone who claims that youth missions are not based on the fun, excitement and adventure of going to a different country and culture for a few days is delusional and has no experience with youth missions. A trip to El Salvador or Mexico thousands of miles away is FAR MORE EXCITING to the youth than a 2 mile trip down the road to the local baby butcher shop.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 1:29 PM
"I love it, God brought the illegals up here so we can evangelize to them. I guess we can stop oppossing illegal immigration. It's just God's plan after all."
I was being semi-facetious when I said that Hal.
There are many who believe that whatever happens happens exactly according to God's will (illegal immigration, murdering babies, etc.) and that "Everything has a reason" why it happens. Meaning a divine reason behind it.
Jesus Christ rejects this and affirms that some things happen by chance (Luke 10:31)Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 6, 2007 1:32 PM
Zeke, I'm pretty sure that you are certifiably nuts.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 1:38 PM
Can you argue WITHOUT quoting the scripture of is it your backbone to everything??Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 1:40 PM
Zeke- I agree that we do start with our family and work out. But we are all members of the body of Christ, an extended divine family as St. Paul says in 1 Cor. 12, Eph 5 and others. So while our primary concern is for our immediate family, we also have a duty to all of the other adopted sons and daughters of God the Father. Look at Mother Teresa; she helped both the unborn and AIDS victims. Thats the beauty of our faith Zeke. As you're well aware, it's never either/or- its both/and, right? The rock is both Peter and his faith. The women in Rev. 12 is both Mary and Jerusalem. We help both the unborn and those suffering. In all these cases, of course, we have a primary and a secondary meaning/responsibility, but we don't simply exclude the secondary meaning of a text or a secondary responsibility. We love both the baby AND the mother as well.
I think you also have to ask yourself what the purpose of speaking out against homosexuals is. It is not to condemn them or to tell them that they are sinners and evil people, yet to share the truth with them about the disorderedness of their actions and show them love, which is an act of the will desiring the highest good for someone. I want homosexuals to go to heaven as should you. This is why we should not "let them die" but help to free them from their chains. God love you, Zeke.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 1:44 PM
HIV/AIDS is for the most part a behavioral disease. What I mean by this is that if we alter the behavior, we can remove the disease. Same goes for the majority of STD's; STI's.
To say that this is "Gay" disease is being closed minded considering the different ways you can contract this disease. The main ones being Promiscuous sex - including but not limited to gay sex(unfortunately, if only one part of the couple is promiscuous and the other part is unaware of this promiscuous behavior that part is also infected not by their behavior, but by the bad behavior of another), drug use and blood transfusion.
It was because of people calling this disease a "gay" disease that Ryan White had to endure horrible torture in his short life (1971 - 1990). He became infected because of a blood transfusion. In the first year after being buried his grave was desecrated 4 times and today you still here of this happening. The last time was (I believe) last fall and someone wrote the word "faggot" accros his gravestone. It didn't get much media attention because for some reason no one considers it news anymore.
HIV/AIDS is not a gay disease. It is in most part a behavioral disease with alot of innocent victims mixed in.
Yes, we have to stop abortion. But we also have to stop the other immorals of the world.
OMG. My Anthro professor just used the term 'penis fencing' in a lecture. I love this class.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 1:45 PM
valerie, that's awful! Where is he buried?Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 1:48 PM
Erin, Midnite, Hal and Laura -
Isn't it nice when we can find something to agree on?
;-)Posted by: valerie at September 6, 2007 1:49 PM
I've heard conflicting stories. I hear that heterosexual white women and teens have the highest rates of infection. I've also heard that more white women abort. Anyone know?Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 1:51 PM
I love Zeke.
I'm gonna buy Zeke a bullhorn and start the All-Zeke 24-hour XM station. Then I'm gonna pitch my new reality show to the networks; "Zeke's Fundie Christian Right-Wing Republican Anti Baby-Killer Comedy Hour."
Sure, maybe you pro-lifers have the footage of some *militant lesbian feminist with hairy pits and a full mustache shrieking and waving a bloody hanger, BUT I HAVE ZEKE! BEAT THAT!Posted by: Laura at September 6, 2007 1:52 PM
yes!Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 1:53 PM
It is (it's rare), But I love it..Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 1:53 PM
He grew up in Kokomo, IN very close to where I grew up. I never met him, though I wish I did. His story was very close to us because my Mom was an RN and always fought for the rights of AIDS victims. The way he was treated was horrible. He was even expelled from his school because of it. However, the good news is that it was his case that brought the attention to everyone that AIDS isn't a "gay" disease.Posted by: valerie at September 6, 2007 1:53 PM
Zeke, I agree that alot of youth missions are more about "fun" than anything else. However, there are many, many true missionaries who are suffering in order to share their faith with others. It's not fair to lump the two groups together.Posted by: lauren at September 6, 2007 1:53 PM
Heather- CDC states that more black women have abortions than white women. About twice as many. Black women also, however, have about twice the rate of infant mortality. They're not really comparable though- those are statistics for the US. AIDS statistics are generally worldwide and focus on a pandemic spectrum- the greatest amount of AIDS infected people are native African women, largely due to poor education and massive rates of rape in the continent.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 1:54 PM
"Sure, maybe you pro-lifers have the footage of some *militant lesbian feminist with hairy pits and a full mustache shrieking and waving a bloody hanger, BUT I HAVE ZEKE! BEAT THAT!"
Darn it! You win.Posted by: valerie at September 6, 2007 1:55 PM
Sure, maybe you pro-lifers have the footage of some *militant lesbian feminist with hairy pits and a full mustache shrieking and waving a bloody hanger, BUT I HAVE ZEKE! BEAT THAT!
That's just mean and cruel and nasty...not what you said about zeke...but the fact that I'm afraid we might not be able to top it!Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 1:55 PM
Yeah, what Lauren said is what I had in mind, too. I was just trying to argue that we should help them, not necessarily for youth trips or other ways that may not be effective.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 1:55 PM
"Mating and kinship are very closely related. Wait...that sounds bad. I mean...oh, too late, I can't save it."
Tell me my professor isn't hysterical.Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2007 1:57 PM
No racial or ethnic group makes up a majority of women having abortions: 41% are white, 32% are black and 20% are Hispanic. (26)
Erin, Midnite, Hal and Laura -
Isn't it nice when we can find something to agree on?
Yes, but did you notice that when we all agreed, a huge earthquake rocked Taipei?
We mustn't do it again. It throws the entire planet off-kilter.
Erin, this is what I had found.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 1:59 PM
Oops. ^ Me.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 1:59 PM
Midnite, Hal, Erin,
Now don't you miss hisman? I mean really, Zeke makes him look like an atheist!Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:00 PM
Hrm. I must go back to my CDC statistics. I could've sworn that that was what it told me.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 2:00 PM
Ahhhh, there we go. It's the ratio that's much greater for black women, Heather. 495 per 1000 live births, while for white women it's 164 per 1000 live births.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 2:06 PM
Reminds me of the movie 'Gia'. For anyone who hasn't seen the movie (I highly recommend it), Gia was a supermodel who was infected with AIDS (through sharing Heroin needles) before the epidemic broke out. No one was sure of what she had, and everyone was scared to death of her. Her doctors and nurses wore full "hazmat" suits in her hospital room and her own family wouldn't let her come home and die in peace.
I think that it is horrible in this day and age for people to ignorantly assume that HIV/AIDS is still a gay disease. More heterosexual women (mainly African American Women) are being infected with the disease than any homosexual in the world. The people in Africa who are born with AIDS did not receive it from gay sex in the womb. They were infected by their mother during birth. They will be lucky if they live to see age 6, and yet you're going to sit back and say it's divine intervention? I DONT THINK SO!!
As a moral & educated society (not Christians) need to be in Africa and other third world countries teaching them of safe sex, how they are infected with this disease and helping them with antiviral medicine. Zeke, have you ever witnessed someone die from AIDS or complications of the disease? It is a horrible and painful way to go.Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 2:07 PM
"Midnite, Hal, Erin,
Now don't you miss hisman? I mean really, Zeke makes him look like an atheist!"
I see some similarities to tell you the truth. But Hisman did have a gentle side to him. Did I miss his departure message or did he just fade away?
Okay. Thanks Erin. Off to the shower for me. Work night....Have fun everyone.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:08 PM
That wasn't Taipei...it was Taiwan.
(Just wanted to disagree and help put the world right again!)Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:09 PM
That's supposed to say Valerie at the top (my bad)
MK: I dont know who is worse, Zeke or HisMan.
What happened to him anyway? He left right before we all made nice with eachother
midnite, I have her book.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:09 PM
And the 2nd part is talking to Zeke.
I got full of words and forgot to seperate the two..Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 2:10 PM
He came back all fired up for few minutes (has been working on his house) and then disappeared.
Yes, he came on quite strong, but HE was motivated by love and not hate...therein lies the difference between the two.Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:11 PM
Wait who came back fired up HisMan? Eh, I still think he's a little shady. But that's just my personal opinion. He's not quite as obnoxious as Zeke though.
Divine Intervention for illegal immigrants and homosexuals, I CALL B.S.!!
How are you today MK?Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 2:14 PM
midnite, the book is called 'A thing of Beauty'....Gia was a lesbian, as well as an IV drug user. One night, while high on heroin, she was raped by a stranger. They weren't sure if the HIV was contracted from the rape or the drug use. Read the book. It's really good. Angelina Jolie did not do her justice in that movie!! Even Gia's mother wasn't happy with Jolie's performance. The book is so much better.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:18 PM
hmmm, thanks for the recommendation Heather (I love to read. I'll have to go buy that and read it. Although, I must say I love the movie, but apparently b/c I haven't read the book.
I did know that she was a lesbian from the movie, but that's not how she contracted the disease b/c her partner did not have it.Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 2:26 PM
"That's supposed to say Valerie at the top (my bad)"
hey, don't worry. How many times did I accidently type "Midnight"?
Anyway - Valeria is a correct spelling of my name too... I think is is the French spelling? I could be wrong.
"As a moral & educated society (not Christians) need to be in Africa and other third world countries teaching them of safe sex, how they are infected with this disease and helping them with antiviral medicine. "
I posted this before...I find it interesting:
Posted by: valerie
at September 6, 2007 2:27 PM
I miss HisMan. I was just thinking of him today. MK is right, what he said was out of Love. It may be hard for people who don't have the strong faith he has to understand. Heck! sometimes I found it hard to understand!
That's a good link Valerie. I wish I had the time to go volunteer in countries like those. One day I will. I have made that one of my goals in life.Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 2:32 PM
"hey, don't worry. How many times did I accidently type "Midnight"?"
Oh crap! I never even noticed that! I've been calling you "midnight" this whole time! Sorry, midnite!Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 2:34 PM
"HIV is a disease that exists largely among gay men."
Yes, thats true Zeke, gay sex is what made this disease spread so rapidly, the polically correct forces will try to lie about this every time, which really doesn't help the cause. As mostly homosexuals in 80 and 90's died from aids in this country. Although, it's not to say we shouldn't care about or love these people with all of our hearts.
Posted by: jasper
at September 6, 2007 2:35 PM
midnite, Yes. Gia was gutsy, but Jolie portrayed her as an arrogant, hard a$$, bully. About the movie, Mrs. Carangi said, "My daughter didn't act anything like that!" Gia looks more like Cindy Crawford. I love Jolie in 'Girl Interrupted' though. I just didn't like her as Gia.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:36 PM
BTW, Hisman will be back. He was on a few days ago.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:38 PM
*swats jasper on the nose with a newspaper* No! Bad! Don't feed the hateful man.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 2:41 PM
The largest concentration of AIDS is in heterosexual black women. The end. Not gay dudes. Sorry.Posted by: Erin at September 6, 2007 2:43 PM
* An estimated one million people are currently living with HIV in the United States, with approximately 40,000 new infections occurring each year.
* 70 percent of these new infections occur in men and 30 percent occur in women.
* By race, 54 percent of the new infections in the United States occur among African Americans, and 64 percent of the new infections in women occur in African American women.
* 75 percent of the new infections in women are heterosexually transmitted.
* Half of all new infections in the United States occur in people 25 years of age or younger.
The charts below show how adults and adolescents2 living with AIDS most likely became infected with HIV. Around 77% of adults and adolescents living with AIDS are men.
Unfortunately I can't copy the charts, but they say that 59% of cases in men are from men on men sex, 20% are from drug users, 8% from BOTH men on men and drug use combined, and 11% through heterosexual contact.
For women, 65% from heterosexual contact, 33% from drug use and 3% from unknown sources.Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:45 PM
Zeke, you are a wonderful Christian...
"many, many true missionaries who are suffering in order to share their faith with others."
Ahh, the Jesuits. :)
You are totally right, MK, this guy does make HisMan look much better.
For example, I don't see HisMan telling gays they deserve to die. At least his main message was "repent!"
But people do this all over the world.One doctor in south america saw a girl hemorraging because of an illegal abortion. When he discovered that it was the cause, he threw down his instruments, and said, "this was an abortion! You go ahead an die!"
Let's hope Zeke never becomes a doctor that has to treat an AIDS patient.
Thanks for clearing that up, MK. As I posted earlier, my gay friends were often having trysts with married men. Then my friend was diagnosed with HIV. What did those guys take home to their wives? They all made me sick!Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 2:52 PM
And I'm pretty sure Zeke is a girl...click her name to go to her blog.Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:58 PM
Remember when I posted this?
Well, someone did a spoof on it...Posted by: mk at September 6, 2007 2:59 PM
The guilt is 50/50. And although it is their fault they did not get tested, it is easy to think you don't have an STD because AIDS (like other STDs) are insidious--aka asymptomatic.
Furthermore, it is not GAY sex, but ANAL sex, that makes it easier to contract. The colon is designed to absorb nutrients. Did you know that something like 38.2 percent of men b/t 20 and 30 and 32.6 percent of women ages 18-44 engage in heterosexual anal sex?
You know, lesbians that engage in women to women sex have a much lower exposure rate. A gay disease? Come again?
"And I'm pretty sure Zeke is a girl...click her name to go to her blog."
Oh, okay. her then.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2007 3:00 PM
PIP, I agree. Both are at fault. I worked with all women @ one of my jobs. We all engaged in a little "girl talk." They were all telling me how much they all enjoyed anal sex. I think it began as "a gay disease"... AIDS does not discriminate. It affects all. That's why it's best not to be promiscuous.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 3:18 PM
PIP, my friend thought he had the flu. The symptoms came and went for him. He never used protection, and look at what happened to him. He had multiple partners. Has no idea who passed it to him.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 3:25 PM
Yes, HIV/AIDS makes it easier to contract other diseases and hard to get rid of them, but that in itself usually is not noticeable to the people who don't know, unless it lands them in the hospital. And except for a few manifestations, or serious complications, it's really hard to tell unless you get tested.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2007 3:29 PM
Midnite, 2:07p, said: "Reminds me of the movie 'Gia'. For anyone who hasn't seen the movie (I highly recommend it), Gia was a supermodel who was infected with AIDS (through sharing Heroin needles) before the epidemic broke out. No one was sure of what she had"
You know, it wasn't until about my 27th viewing of Forrest Gump that I realized Jenny died of AIDS. Same deal. She caught it before they knew what it was.Posted by: Jill Stanek at September 6, 2007 3:36 PM
Jill, no kidding? I didn't catch that either.Posted by: Heather at September 6, 2007 3:42 PM
People keep saying I look like Tom Hanks...Posted by: jasper at September 6, 2007 3:48 PM
"People keep saying I look like Tom Hanks..."
Hopefully you don't have the haircut he does in DaVinci Code, hehePosted by: Bobby Bambino at September 6, 2007 3:50 PM
"You know, it wasn't until about my 27th viewing of Forrest Gump that I realized Jenny died of AIDS. Same deal. She caught it before they knew what it was."
Speaking of gay - I watched that movie the first time with my "drag queen" friends (one drag queen could not only walk better in heels, but had better legs than me! - that should set off a few readers...) anywho - I was the only one who caught that!
Posted by: valerie
at September 6, 2007 4:09 PM
I caught that the first or second time I watched the movie. I am good at getting hidden messages or symbols in movies/books/life. It' kind of sad when I 3rd grader knows what AIDS is and how you contract it. But I've always had to know everything and researced it myself. My father tells me I am too mature and smart for my age (and self) @ times :-)..Posted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 4:15 PM
sorry for the double post, computer is acting up :SPosted by: midnite678 at September 6, 2007 4:22 PM
"Hopefully you don't have the haircut he does in DaVinci Code, hehe"
No Bobby...LOL!Posted by: jasper at September 6, 2007 5:37 PM
"Gia." The young Angelina Jolie. Oh Yeah.
DougPosted by: Doug at September 6, 2007 7:31 PM
"Can you argue WITHOUT quoting the scripture of is it your backbone to everything??"
It is indeed the strong "backbone" that supports every belief that I hold. Thanx for the analogy!
And I enjoy the fact that it pisses off God-hating leftists when I reference God's word.
"I think you also have to ask yourself what the purpose of speaking out against homosexuals is. It is not to condemn them or to tell them that they are sinners and evil people...."
Rebuke is still a part of it according to God. And its a necessary part.
Proverbs 24:25 But those who rebuke [the wicked] will have delight, And a good blessing will come upon them.
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose [them.]Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 4:31 AM
"Hate the sin, love the sinner."
This is a false Christian cliche. Sin is not an entity that can be hated. Only personal beings can truly be hated. Sin is not an entity.
When God sends people to Hell He will send them to hell because they are unrepentant sinners. He won't take everyone's sin and send it to Hell and then let all of the "sinners" in.
Jesus Christ said that murder and other sins come from the heart (Matthew 15).
C.S. Lewis has done some major damage to the mind of Christians by coining this ridiculous phrase.
We are fully capable of both loving and hating the same person. Love and hate are NOT mutually exclusive.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 4:40 AM
Angelina Jolie is an adulterer which is a capital crime as is her partner in crime Brad Pitt. Had justice been brought about on adulters in the past neither Pitt or Jolie would have committed adultery.
Jill Stanek has watched Forrest Gump 27 times!?!?!?!?!!? Good grief!!
Thank you MK for posting the STATISTICS of those with HIV in the USA and PROVING that what I have said from the beginning is correct - that HIV is a gay disease in the USA.
And by "gay", prettyinpink, you know I mean gay men. As I said earlier, the disease was first known as Gay Man's Bowel Syndrome. Its well known that fomos (female homos or lesbians) have the lowest infection rates of practically anyone that is sexually active.
I'VE BEEN VINDICATED/ I'M RIGHT. YOU'RE ALL ENLIGHTENED.
YOU'RE VERY WELCOME!
;)Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 5:00 AM
Hey Zeke. According to CCC paragraph 1849 "Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law." " We can, indeed hate this offense against truth. Nowhere in scripture or tradition do we see that "Only personal beings can truly be hated".
"When God sends people to Hell"
God does not send people to hell; we send ourselves to hell as paragraph 1033 of CCC says "To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice." It is our choice.
"Rebuke is still a part of it according to God. And its a necessary part."
Absolutely. But again, just as Saint Paul says in the Philippians passage, we must show humility and imitate Christ just as he poured himself out for us.
"We are fully capable of both loving and hating the same person. Love and hate are NOT mutually exclusive."
I don't know where this idea comes from. God love you, Zeke.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 7, 2007 9:33 AM
So God does not care to punish and kill the lesbians quite as much as gay men?
Wow, they got off easy!Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2007 9:51 AM
Actually, Zeke, it was GRID, Gay Related Immune Deficiency. The term used by the medical community was changed in 1982 when it was discovered that several victims weren't gay men. GMBS appears to be a parasitic infection or a funky strain of Chlamydia, I didn't spend too much time on google.Posted by: ZuRG at September 7, 2007 10:42 AM
Zeke- you're a terrible missionary, you know that right? You chase people away from Christianity crazy fast.Posted by: Erin at September 7, 2007 11:39 AM
Hey guys, don't blame Zeke for believing what is written. He didn't make this stuff up, someone else did, long ago. He just fell for it.Posted by: Hal at September 7, 2007 12:09 PM
Hal, *ahem* I thought you said that PP was going to open on time. You bet a buck. Pay up!Posted by: Heather at September 7, 2007 12:31 PM
Heather, you might be right. I could be wrong (and not for the first time. Since you're the first one to call me on my claim, if it doesn't open on schedule I'll send $10.00 to the charity of your choice (please not a pro-life one, that could come back to haunt me if I ever run for office ;)Posted by: Hal at September 7, 2007 12:35 PM
Hal, LOL! At least you're a good sport!!Posted by: Heather at September 7, 2007 12:47 PM
Zeke is on her way to be a member of the KKK. You know, only straight, white, AMERICANS allowed.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2007 1:10 PM
"Nowhere in scripture or tradition do we see that 'Only personal beings can truly be hated'."
Look man. This isn't difficult to understand. When you refer to a non-entity as an entity you are reifying it. Its much like how we talk about "time". We reify time so we can talk about it easier.
If someone murders someone then they are a murderer and we punish that person for what they did. We don't punish their "sin" because the concept of sin is just something that describes what people do. We punish/execute/hate the person/murderer.
"I don't know where this idea [that we can both ove and hate the same person] comes from."
If you want a specific example of loving and hting the same person from the bible read 1 Corinthians 5. There, the apostle Paul explicitly said that the unrepentant sexually immoral are to be disfellowshipped. This is an excellent example of both loving and hating the same person at the same time.
1 Corinthians 5:1-11
It is actually reported [that there is] sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles -- that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying [is] not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet [I] certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- not even to eat with such a person.
You can use the Bible to justify anything, like the slavery/anti-AA movement, the witch trials, and subjugation of women.
Jesus' main message was love. Didn't he say to love God first, and then to love your neighbor as yourself? And keep the commandments?Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2007 6:08 PM
"God does not send people to hell; we send ourselves to hell as paragraph 1033 of CCC says "To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice." It is our choice."
God explicitly says that He will send wicked people to Hell.
Luke 12:5 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!"
"Him" in this passage is God.
Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
"Lake of fire" means Hell. And its clear that God is the one who had them cast into the Lake of fire.
"So God does not care to punish and kill the lesbians quite as much as gay men?"
No, God will one day punish all unrepentant homos and fomos (1 Cor 6:9-10). Fomos do have a high amount of abuse. I was glad to come across Tyra Banks acknowledging that on her show a few mornings ago with a fomo couple who expressed the abuse in their relationship.
"Actually, Zeke, it was GRID, Gay Related Immune Deficiency. The term used by the medical community was changed in 1982 when it was discovered that several victims weren't gay men. GMBS appears to be a parasitic infection or a funky strain of Chlamydia, I didn't spend too much time on google."
OK. I am sure there was some confusion of the two since it was a newer disease at the time that people still didn't know a whole lot about. The main point is that HIV was known by its former name as infecting gay men.It is "gay related" indeed.
I recall reading that you are 8 times more likely to get HIV from a man than you are from a woman. That definitely seems to fit with the numbers from the CDC.
"Zeke- you're a terrible missionary, you know that right? You chase people away from Christianity crazy fast."
Some run away from the truth. The apostle Paul said that some would run from and some would run to in response to the same message (2 Cor 2:16). I bet I have helped more people come to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior in the past year than you, Bethany and mk combined have.
"Zeke is on her way to be a member of the KKK. You know, only straight, white, AMERICANS allowed."
Not quite. I've never said anything negative about non-white races, and you should be ashamed for claiming that I have said any such thing.
There are obviously no homos or fomos allowed in my circle of friends or in my ministry in keeping with Paul's command to have nothing to do with the unrepentant sexually immoral (read 1 Cor 5 above).
The friends and partners I have are based solely upon the beliefs they hold. If you were to visit one of the churches I attend in Steger, IL when I am in the area you would find one of the most racially mixed congregations in the area with whites, blacks and asians attending each Sunday.
Its very different from the ethnicly divided Roman Catholic churches that you run across in the Chicago or South Bend/Ft Wayne area.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 6:32 PM
" Fomos do have a high amount of abuse."
The straight population has a lot of abuse too. Abuse even occurs in very strict communities like the Amish.
"Not quite. I've never said anything negative about non-white races, and you should be ashamed for claiming that I have said any such thing."
When the subject of African women came up, you dismissed it. You also seem to only care about the AIDS incidence in the gay community. Or did I misunderstand you. That you "care" about other people who have HIV/AIDS but not gay people? What do you think of the others that catch the disease that aren't gay? Are they being punished too?
"There are obviously no homos or fomos allowed in my circle of friends"
Still, I cannot imagine Jesus doing the same.
"The friends and partners I have are based solely upon the beliefs they hold"
So, do you hang out with people of other Christian denominations? Or are they inferior to your belief system too?
" most racially mixed congregations in the area with whites, blacks and asians attending each Sunday."
Well that's good. As long as they are not fags I guess..
"Its very different from the ethnicly divided Roman Catholic churches that you run across in the Chicago or South Bend/Ft Wayne area."
I've never been there. But even in my less ethnically diverse town there are a variety of people there (and one of my priests is black, and other is vietnamese, btw).
I find in St. Louis a lot of African-American catholics, along with Asian and white people too. I'm sure it depends on the community and not the particular church that determines diversity.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2007 6:57 PM
What in the world is a "fomo"?
Zeke, but do you not understand that you are pushing people AWAY from Jesus?Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 7:35 PM
PIP made the mindless claim:
"You can use the Bible to justify anything"
No you can't. What a mindless idiotic statment! Hey, if you think you can use the bible to justify anything then use the bible to justify older men having sex with infant baby boys. If you can't do it, then concede that you can't "use the bible to justify anything".
"like the slavery/anti-AA movement"
Some slavery such as working to pay off a debt you owe someone is an acceptable form of "slavery".
"and subjugation of women."
Women need to be "subjugated". The government school system that dumb parents let raise their children is harming girls by teaching them that its more important to have a career than to have a husband that loves them and a family.
It was great to hear Ann Coulter last night in Cincinnati explain why doing away with "women's suffrage" would have a very positive effect on our nation. I actually uploaded her explanation she gave last night in response to a girl asking her about it here.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 7:54 PM
This is what the bible has to say about the *ideal* woman.
31 A good woman is hard to find,
and worth far more than diamonds.
Her husband trusts her without reserve,
and never has reason to regret it.
Never spiteful, she treats him generously
all her life long.
She shops around for the best yarns and cottons,
and enjoys knitting and sewing.
She's like a trading ship that sails to faraway places
and brings back exotic surprises.
She's up before dawn, preparing breakfast
for her family and organizing her day.
She looks over a field and buys it,
then, with money she's put aside, plants a garden.
First thing in the morning, she dresses for work,
rolls up her sleeves, eager to get started.
She senses the worth of her work,
is in no hurry to call it quits for the day.
She's skilled in the crafts of home and hearth,
diligent in homemaking.
She's quick to assist anyone in need,
reaches out to help the poor.
She doesn't worry about her family when it snows;
their winter clothes are all mended and ready to wear.
She makes her own clothing,
and dresses in colorful linens and silks.
Her husband is greatly respected
when he deliberates with the city fathers.
She designs gowns and sells them,
brings the sweaters she knits to the dress shops.
Her clothes are well-made and elegant,
and she always faces tomorrow with a smile.
When she speaks she has something worthwhile to say,
and she always says it kindly.
She keeps an eye on everyone in her household,
and keeps them all busy and productive.
Her children respect and bless her;
her husband joins in with words of praise:
"Many women have done wonderful things,
but you've outclassed them all!"
Charm can mislead and beauty soon fades.
The woman to be admired and praised
is the woman who lives in the Fear-of-God.
Give her everything she deserves!
Festoon her life with praises!
Proverbs 31 The Message.Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 8:21 PM
"What in the world is a "fomo"?"
Female is short for female homo - fomo. That way I can say homos and fomos instead of gays and lesbians or homos and lesbians. At least, whe I am not using the word sodomite or catamite.
"Zeke, but do you not understand that you are pushing people AWAY from Jesus?"
I am not doing it. Their evil heart is what makes them react the way they do. Most rejected Jesus. Would you say that Jesus pushed them away?
Read 2 Cor 2:15-16.
For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one [we are] the aroma of death [leading] to death, and to the other the aroma of life [leading] to life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
Same content, two extremely different reactions.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 8:22 PM
"There are obviously no homos or fomos allowed in my circle of friends"
"Still, I cannot imagine Jesus doing the same."
He explicitly says that He will do exactly that!
Luke 19:27 'But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay [them] before me.' "
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Don't forget that Paul made it clear that the unrepentant sexually immoral are to be disfellowshipped. That means that if a girl shacks up with a guy and is unrepentant of it that she is not allowed to fellowship with them or to even eat with them until she repents of it (1 Cor 5).Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 8:30 PM
Zeke, I agree that different people are reached by different manners, but I also belive we can be counterproductive in our witness.Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 8:32 PM
I just compared The Message to the New King James Version and I must conclude that The Message is a horrendous paraphrase of God's word.
Check out the NKJV of Proverbs 31 here to compare for yourself.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 8:33 PM
Zeke, but Jesus went to those people and called them to Himself. Yes, he called them to repentance, but he first showed them love.
If we simply condemn without sharing God's love, we have sinned greatly.Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 8:43 PM
How many people have you directly had a part in leading to Christ in the last year lauren?
By "lead to Christ" I mean how many people have who were lost and had not made Christ their savior and Lord did you help to understand God's will for themselves where they could hear Paul's gospel and believe it to become members of Christ's body.
Read and analyze the significance of what Paul says here for a few minutes.
In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
I love my neighbor more than you do lauren. I love my neighbor so much that I want to see those who murder/rape/kidnap them or attempt to put on trial so they can be convicted and executed so that others will not even THINK of committing such crimes against my neighbors or those in our neighborhood.
I love my neighbor so much that I don't look past extremely destructive sins/crimes that do them and their neighbors great harm (like adultery and sodomy).
Do you really love your neighbor as much as I do?Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 8:48 PM
Zeke, I use the KJV exclusively, but I understand that many on this site would appreciate a more modern translation in order to better understand what has been said.
My website title is taken from the King James Version of Proverbs 31. I am well aware of what the chapter teaches. It is quite clear to me that a woman is to be called blessed who has managed her home and supported her husband. Godly submission is not "subjegation". A woman willingly lying down her life for her family is to be praised.
I am about as traditional as they come, I just feel that there needs to be clarification to what God speaks into the lives of women. We are called to many things, but a doormat is not one of them. I show proverbs 31 to explain that the role of a biblical woman is full and fruitful.Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 8:48 PM
I forgot to respond to this question that PIP asked:
"So, do you hang out with people of other Christian denominations? Or are they inferior to your belief system too?"
I hang out with some. It really depends on the event and how much agreement is needed.
If there were people from the Metropolitan Community Church denomination I would not participate because doing so would give the impression that they are members of the Body of Christ and that they are not among those who should be disfellowshipped as Paul said in 1 Cor 5.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 7, 2007 8:51 PM
Zeke, it is easy to love the neighbor. It is far more difficult to love the murderer. Yet this is what we are called to do.
We are called to go forth and bring the saving gospel of Jesus to those who might otherwise never hear of Him. How are we to do this if we refuse to go to where they are for fear of being made unclean by their association.
Before Jesus, the unclean dirtied the clean. The Jews were told to SEPARATE themselves from the heathen.
Our Savior changed this radically, a sinner reaching out to Him did not dirty his holiness, but rather made the sinner clean.
We are called to bring his healing message to even the most vile sinner. For without it, we are all destined for the same place seperate from God.
I understand not fraternizing with the team from "Hooters", but we can and should go into their midst and declare God's word. No one is to filthy to be cleansed with the blood of the lamb.Posted by: lauren at September 7, 2007 8:58 PM
"No you can't. What a mindless idiotic statment!"
Na, I hear tons of things that are "supported" by Biblical claims, when really you must look at all aspects, including the contexts of the times.
"If you can't do it, then concede that you can't "use the bible to justify anything".
You really didn't get what I was trying to say, did you?
"Some slavery such as working to pay off a debt you owe someone is an acceptable form of "slavery"."
OK, but the Christians used choice verses, such as, "Obey your masters" as a reason to continue African American slavery...again taken out of context you can make the Bible say a lot of things its not meant to.
"Women need to be "subjugated"."
"It was great to hear Ann Coulter last night in Cincinnati explain why doing away with "women's suffrage" would have a very positive effect on our nation. I actually uploaded her explanation she gave last night in response to a girl asking her about it here."
Ann Coulter is like Howard Stern--not to be taken seriously. If she says offensive things "just as a joke" then that is the level of seriousness we should place her as.
Yeah, I guess we should take away your right to vote and just tell you to SHUT UP about anything you think independently or politically. Maybe we should take away your right to own land or have a career. That would do the country a whole lot of good!!!!
whoops, please delete the second post. My safari when crazy for a sec.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 8, 2007 12:39 AM
"If there were people from the Metropolitan Community Church denomination I would not participate because doing so would give the impression that they are members of the Body of Christ and that they are not among those who should be disfellowshipped as Paul said in 1 Cor 5."
Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
I'm absolutely serious. That would really explain a lot.Posted by: prettyinpink at September 8, 2007 1:33 AM
Holy shit, Zeke.
What is wrong with your mind?!Posted by: Stephanie at September 8, 2007 3:17 AM
"It is "gay related" indeed.
I recall reading that you are 8 times more likely to get HIV from a man than you are from a woman. That definitely seems to fit with the numbers from the CDC."
The receptive partner is much more susceptible to transmission, but it can go both ways. Additionally, the presence of a single method of transmission besides acts of homosexuality (blood transfusions, IV drug use, heterosexual sexual acts) implies singling out same-sex acts in the name while shunting aside other methods of transmission is misleading and biased. As was posted above, the demographic today that has the most new cases of HIV infections is heterosexual women. To continue, even now, to refer to it as a "gay" infliction reflects a desire to justify your existing heterosexism as it becomes less and less socially acceptable with each passing year.
On a different note, looking at the contents of Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Exodus, you can indeed use the bible to justify nearly anything. Side note: if someone's going to post "Well, that's OT. Uh... I... archaic. We don't think that anymore," then you can't use Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 to condemn it.Posted by: ZuRG at September 8, 2007 12:01 PM
Good job, ZuRG!Posted by: prettyinpink at September 8, 2007 12:04 PM
hi5Posted by: ZuRG at September 8, 2007 12:29 PM
ZuRG, we are instructed in the NT as to which OT laws we are still bound.
"Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
19 "You know the commandments, 'Do not murder , Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'
"20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up."
21 And looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Obviously, homosexuality and sex between unmarried people in general falls into this catagory, while eating shellfish does not.
Then again in Romans
Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
-Again, a whole lot o' things fall in this sweeping rebuke, but wearing polyester is not one of them.
So basically, yes we know that homosexuality is still considered a sin by God in the NT. However, we also know that the same applies for gluttony and gossip as well.
Thankfully, praise God, we are forgiven for these sins if we embrace Jesus and repent and be baptized.
Acts2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Acts 3:19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
So,while we are all still sinners, we have hope in our Lord. God doesn't "hate fags", He loves His children and calls us to bury ourselves and walk with Him. What a glorious walk it is!Posted by: lauren at September 8, 2007 12:43 PM
"Zeke, it is easy to love the neighbor. It is far more difficult to love the murderer. Yet this is what we are called to do."
I love murderers a lot. I love them so much that I obey God by doing what I can to share Paul's gospel with them in the short time between their conviction and their painful, public execution. That's my ideal anyways. The ideal being a trial lasting no longer than a week where a judge gives a decision (not a retarded jury) where two or more pieces of evidence are given to convict the capital criminal and then sharing the gospel with that murderer within the 24 hours that he has left between his conviction and execution. He has a real deadline that he needs to meet as far as accepting or rejecting the gospel message is concerned.
I'll put my evangelistic strategy and skills up against yours or anyone else's anytime.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 9, 2007 1:13 AM
"Ann Coulter is like Howard Stern--not to be taken seriously. If she says offensive things "just as a joke" then that is the level of seriousness we should place her as.
Yeah, I guess we should take away your right to vote and just tell you to SHUT UP about anything you think independently or politically. Maybe we should take away your right to own land or have a career. That would do the country a whole lot of good!!!!"
Making it where women are unable to vote would have VERY VERY good affects on the USA based on the evidence.
Can you tell me and the others what Ann Coulter's rationale was for not letting women vote in the video I gave a link to?
You probably don't have the mental energy to go find out what Ann said just by hearing it on video for a minute or 90 seconds, so I will share with everyone her reasoning.
Ann pointed out that in the book that came out recently titled Freedomnomics that the states that gave girls the ability to vote saw a TREMENDOUS RISE in government spending that coincided with women being able to vote.
In other words, the HUGE national debt that has come about as a result of skyrocketing government spending (which started in each of the states at the same time girls were allowed to vote) came about largely because of the influence of women voters.
Had girls not been given the OK on voting our nation would be in much better financial health.
Nest time you're in a library go check out the book Freedomnomics for the info on this.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 9, 2007 1:24 AM
Here is an excellent explanation PIP of how women gaining the "right to vote" in each state resulted in increased government spending from the author of Freedomnomics if you are brave enough to read the evidence that he gives to support the claim.
PIP also asked me:
"Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
I'm absolutely serious. That would really explain a lot."
No, I am not. I am a Grace Believer.
The Metropolitan Community Church is known as the gay denomination. I'm sure there's one in your area.
Homos make me physically ill, especially those homos who talk with a fake gay lisp so that everyone within earshot will know that they engage in gay sex acts.
Gay waiters who wait on customers and talk with a fake homo lisp ought to be fired because of behavior that makes patrons lose their appetite.
"Holy shit, Zeke.
What is wrong with your mind?!"
You mean what is "right" with my mind! What is right is that I have consulted God on his specific opinions and have put a higher value on His opinions than the dopes around me who continually misrepresent God so that everyone will just accept them and be their friend and not offend anyone.
"To continue, even now, to refer to it as a "gay" infliction reflects a desire to justify your existing heterosexism as it becomes less and less socially acceptable with each passing year."
Unless some major change in the percentage of those in the USA occurs where gay men become LESS THAN the majority, then my "heterosexism" will continue to exist and spread to other straight, conservative Christians who base their belief that HIV is largely a disease that exists among gay men based upon the facts of the CDC reports.
THIS ALSO HELPS MAINTAIN MY STRICT HETEROSEXISM
San Francisco is the most homosexual major city in the world, as their heterosexual population decreases. One in five males above age 15 are homosexual, and 26% of them are infected with HIV. The tacit admission here, too late for countless dead homosexuals, is that they monitor the homosexual population because it tracks the AIDS rates.
And we laugh at this statement that Oprah made on her show 20 tears ago!
"Research studies now project that one in five -- listen to me, hard to believe -- one in five heterosexuals could be dead from AIDS at the end of the next three years. That's by 1990. One in five. It is no longer just a gay disease. Believe me."
Sorry, still can't believe you Oprah! Not based on the evidence anyways ;)Posted by: Zeke13:19 at September 9, 2007 2:02 AM
"(not a retarded jury)"
Amazing, we agree on something.
"TREMENDOUS RISE in government spending that coincided with women being able to vote."
Establish causation and I might take you seriously. This happened at the same time as a World War and a worldwide naval arms race as nations frenzied to close the power gap left by those who first invested in post-Dreadnoughts.
The term "homophobia" is misleading because a phobia is a medical condition and thus okay because you can't really control that. "Heterosexism" is more accurate because discrimination against gay people is on par with discrimination against minorities and women. It's bigotry, plain and simple, and you can do something about it.
"Making it where women are unable to vote would have VERY VERY good affects on the USA based on the evidence."
"You probably don't have the mental energy to go find out what Ann said just by hearing it on video for a minute or 90 seconds, so I will share with everyone her reasoning."
See, Zeke..essentially, it's not that I'm lazy...I just don't care.
In case you haven't noticed I don't think Ann in general should ever be taken seriously given her record. She's offensive, but people say she is joking. I think when people are offensive trying to get laughs, they are comedians. And Ann has pretty much made herself a joke.
So no, I really do not care what she has to say.
btw, correlation does not equal causation. I wonder how often I have to say this here to get that across. Statistics are tricky. And I would never trust Coulter with them!
Zeke, to be simple, I don't think the country has to be theiving and callous to succeed. There are some things that shouldn't be unregulated or left up to a FREE market standard--education and health care comes to mind. If politics were only centered on saving money and helping corporations, who would want to live there? You, I guess, and probably Ann and a few billion dollar CEOs.
But that would be you guys kind of in a boat by yourself.
Even if women's suffrage was correlated with the rise in spending (which, again, is not proven), who cares? Spending is not necessarily the gauge on how well society is doing. This here is where logic and empathy combine, Zeke...see where I am going here?
"The Metropolitan Community Church is known as the gay denomination. I'm sure there's one in your area."
Sadly enough in Oklahoma there are few places like that.
"No, I am not. I am a Grace Believer."
Ah, okay then...
"Homos make me physically ill, especially those homos who talk with a fake gay lisp so that everyone within earshot will know that they engage in gay sex acts.
Gay waiters who wait on customers and talk with a fake homo lisp ought to be fired because of behavior that makes patrons lose their appetite."
I honestly don't even know what to say.