Too bad many teenage girls who become pregnant are not able to speak to their parents. Many girls face disownment if they tell their parents they are pregnant and it's easier for them to speak with someone else.

So I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

Danielle-

No one is saying it's "a bad thing" to speak to someone else; I believe the point is that it is not proper for that someone else to then have authority to okay the girl's abortion. Big difference.

I just don't see how his comments are at all mocking anybody. I think he raises a valid point for discussion. But instead of discussing it, you decide to mock the issue. Very hypocritical.

Fritchey missed the point. Conservatives aren't saying that clergy shouldn't be involved in abortion counselling. If my daughter was tempted by this dreadful decision, I'd love to have her talk to our pastor about it....

What we're saying is that clergy should not be able to replace parents and make decisions on behalf of children. I like my pastor. I respect his opinions. However, God gave our three children to my wife & me to raise.

Jill also makes a valid point about how there are "clergy" to support just about any idiotic idea that you can imagine. Simply having a clerical collar does not automatically make someone wise. While I would be happy for my daughter to get advice from our pastor, I certainly wouldn't want her to get advice from Reverend Carlton W. Veazey ... the current President and CEO of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice.

Summary:
Pastoral advice from trusted pastors = GOOD
Pastoral advice from random strangers who've been ordained = NOT NECESSARILY GOOD
Clergy replacing parental decision-making = BAD

Honestly, if simply being clergy means you can approve someone else's daughter's abortion, what's to stop the clinics from simply hiring a pro-choice pastor to approve every teen girl who walks in? How would that help anything at all?

It is utterly impossible to reconcile abortion with Christianity. You might as well say that you can reconcile being a mercenary with being Hindu. The two are diametrically opposed.

Christina, right on.

Jesus gave his life so that others could live. Not so that they could live, and then kill their children.

Just another attempt of pro-abortionists to take away parents right of consent over their children.

Y'know, if my daughter felt for any reason that she could not come to me for a decision this big, I would 1) recognize that I've done something wrong as a parent and 2) be very, very glad that she would have other people to confide in and look to for advice.

Girls who have good relationships with their parents will talk to them when something is wrong. Girls who feel the need to hide something so big generally have a good reason.

I would far rather see a hundred girls abort behind their parents' backs than see one girl disowned, beaten or otherwise abused by her parents for getting pregnant.

"It is utterly impossible to reconcile abortion with Christianity."

Which is way I gave the Church the finger years ago. Jesus had some good things to say, but dogmatic devotion to absolute principles and morals was not one of them.

http://stopncc.blogspot.com/2007/03/thank-you-to-one-of-our-heroes-and-we.html

Sarah stated:
Girls who have good relationships with their parents will talk to them when something is wrong. Girls who feel the need to hide something so big generally have a good reason.

You have a lot more faith in the mature decision-making of children than I do. I love my children. They're still very young, but they're great kids. When they're teenagers, I'm sure that they'll be great teenagers. But they're still kids.

Kids hide stuff from their parents all of the time, with or without a good reason. Even kids from fervently pro-choice families will be willing to hide pregnancies and abortions from their parents. It's part of being a kid.

Sarah sloganized:
I would far rather see a hundred girls abort behind their parents' backs than see one girl disowned, beaten or otherwise abused by her parents for getting pregnant.

I would much rather see none of the above. But if I have to choose, I would rather see a hundred children abused than to see one child killed.

Abortion is killing. Until you understand that, you'll never understand pro-lifers.

Parents should teach their children respect for human life.If abortion is acceptable then what next? Is infanticide ok too? How about killing anyone at anytime. Is that going to be acceptable in the future? Abortion should never be acceptable. Where are the children for our future? The devil is the one at work here.He comes to rob,kill steal and destroy.

*Sigh*

No one is advocating the destruction of an entire generation of fetii. No one is trying to "devalue" human life, although I must ask, do we really have an intrinsic value?

We are simply advocating that each person be able to make the choice that is best for them without being turned into a governmental baby cannon.

Sarah, 3/8, 8:23p stated, "I would far rather see a hundred girls abort behind their parents' backs than see one girl disowned, beaten or otherwise abused by her parents for getting pregnant."

That is precisely why minor pregnant girls afraid to tell their parents should go to the authorities, i.e., a judge. Then they will get help to stop the abuse, be it physical or sexual.

"abortion is killing. Until you understand that, you'll never understand pro-lifers".

I am pro-choice. I think abortion IS killing in the sense that it ends the life of a fetus and thus a potential person. That is not why I don't understand anti-choicers. I do understand them. I just disagree. I'd still kill a fetus under certain circumstances. And I still think unalienable rights are worth more than forcing women to keep a fetus. I am also Christian. And I believe God gave us free will. It is up to us to put up with the consequences of such private choices.

"I would rather see a hundred children abused than to see one child killed."

That's disgusting.

No, Rhian, you don't understand, or you would get that what you just said sounded like this to pro-lifers:

"I am pro-choice. I think infanticide IS killing in the sense that it ends the life of a newborn and thus a potential person. That is not why I don't understand anti-choicers. I do understand them. I just disagree. I'd still kill a newborn under certain circumstances. And I still think unalienable rights are worth more than forcing women to keep a newborn. I am also Christian. And I believe God gave us free will. It is up to us to put up with the consequences of such private choices."

Danielle, you think that's disgusting but not saying that it's better for 100 children to die than one to be beaten? Do you believe that being beaten is worse than being burned alive with chemicals and cut into little pieces? I mean, I don't want to see either happen to any child, but there's a reason that murder is a more serious charge than assault.

Michelle- I would never wish the horrors of abuse on anyone. At least a fetus who is aborted is allowed to keep it's innocence and never suffer so. To say that you would rather have a child be abused instead of being aborted is horrible.

While I agree that neither should be happening, if I could go back to being a fetus I would rather be aborted than suffer a life of psychical or emotional abuse. I was emotionally abused by my mom for 17 years (until I went to college and severed practically all ties) and I would NEVER, EVER wish that on anyone. Especially not a helpless child. Why bringing a child into the world to live through such suffering. THAT is cruel.

"That is precisely why minor pregnant girls afraid to tell their parents should go to the authorities, i.e., a judge. Then they will get help to stop the abuse, be it physical or sexual."

Of course, Jill. Because getting help for abuse is really just so simple. I'm sure you've been there yourself and know just how completely easy it is to remove yourself from an abusive situation.

"That is precisely why minor pregnant girls afraid to tell their parents should go to the authorities, i.e., a judge. Then they will get help to stop the abuse, be it physical or sexual."

Of course, Jill. Because getting help for abuse is really just so simple. I'm sure you've been there yourself and know just how completely easy it is to remove yourself from an abusive situation.

Sarah, the best and easiest course for a young pregnant victim of abuse is to get help through the unbiased legal system. Going any other route threatens help. Other family members may want to protect the abuser. How often have we heard of that? Clergy are supposed to be mandated reporters, but what if the clergy is the abuser or knows the abuser?

It is not easy to remove oneself from the abusive situation. Young girls don't know what to do. The legal system, with all its faults, does.

One study showed abuse victims actually hoped their pregnancies would sound the alarm to get them help.

On Barbara McGuigan's radio show this week Barbara discusses a link between abortion and child abuse. Since Roe v Wade legalized abortion in 1973...

-Child Abuse in the U.S. has gone up 100%

-U.S. Homocides have increased 39%

-Child Abuse against children 1-4 years of age increased 73%

For more alarming statistics about the link between abortion and child abuse you can listen to Barbara's Show here (post#8)...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=1985756

Mike

Jill,

It's not a matter of help being available for those who have been abused, it's the fact that many of them don't.

Many people who are abused think that they deserve it or that it's just the way things are and they don't get help.

It's easy to say, "Oh, they can just go to the police," but many people won't do that. It's hard to get into the mind of a person like that because most people can't begin to understand why someone would just keep living like that, but it happens everyday. Woman, men, children are abused and unable to get help (even if their is help available).

Mike: And as we've seen a decrease in the number of pirates worldwide, we've also seen an increase in global warming. I would suggest you either become a pirate immediately to combat global climate change, or recognize that correlation does not equal causation.

Excellent point, Danielle. Jill apparently doesn't realize that most abused women and children don't seek help because they have bought into their abuser's lies and they believe they deserve what is happening to them.

Of course, it doesn't exactly help when people like Jill insist that domestic violence is commendable, and that in fact any real man would abuse his wife.

Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer Challenges Fox News Sean Hannity on Being Pro-Birth Control.

------

Sean Hannity faced off with Fr. Euteneuer of Human Life International. Fr. Euteneuer called Sean a heretic for being openly pro-artifical contraception.

The text of the discussion as well as a link to the video can be found in the below link:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=1985839

"Sean stated isn't it better to use birth control so abortions will be reduced. This really got me mad. Fr. Euteneur should have told Sean hormonal birth control is abortifacient in nature. These abortions through the use of birth control are called chemical abortions. There are an estimated 14 million chemical abortions per year in the U.S."

Nothing pleases you people does it. You'd rather every woman be in the kitchen and pregnant.

My head is about to explode, for two reasons.

1) It seems Sean Hannity and I agree on something (ew).

2) I'm trying to fathom how it's even possible to have a "chemical abortion" before you're pregnant. Anyone want to help me out on this?

Sarah, because it prevents life from even reaching the "potential" stage would be my guess, anything that aids to help prevent/end pregnancy "murders" a child that could have been.

I'm trying to fathom how it's even possible to have a "chemical abortion" before you're pregnant. Anyone want to help me out on this?

Many forms of Birth Control are not Contraceptives. The reason for this is many so-called contraceptives are abortifacient in nature. For Example, let’s look at the Birth Control Pill –

The birth control pill can work in one of three ways:

1. It can prevent ovulation (releasing an egg from the ovary)

2. It can cause the mucus in the cervix to change so that if sperm reach the cervix, they are not allowed to enter, and

3. It can irritate the lining of the uterus so that if the first two actions fail, and the woman does become pregnant, the tiny baby boy or girl will die before he or she can actually attach to the lining of the uterus.

In other words, if the third action occurs, the woman’s body rejects the tiny baby and he or she will die. This is called a chemical abortion.

Abortion is an act of direct killing that takes the life of a tiny human being-a life that begins at fertilization.

http://all.org/article.php?id=10217&PHPSESSID=d6c4aac5ba558445f33333c239f77391

Mike

Danielle, 3/10, 4:31p; Sarah, 3/10, 4:41p: Your argument against sexually abused pregnant minors having to go to authorities before aborting is absurd. Don't you see you make my point?

You state girls may "have bought into their abuser's lies and they believe they deserve what is happening to them."

Absolutely. And so they might otherwise allow the abusing uncle or teacher or clergy or step-brother to coerce them to abort - thereby killing the evidence - were it not for stopgap measures such as this.