I reported Feb. 9 about a young father who pro-life sidewalk counselors spotted carrying his aborted baby in a white trash bag to the back door of a FL late-term abortion mill after the baby accidentally was delivered at home or in a hotel room.

Now comes news of a similar incident that happened at Hope Clinic in Granite City, IL, on Good Friday.

Sidewalk counselor Angela Michaels reported in an email alert it started when she spotted a white car with a personalized license plate return to the mill for the second day.

(Late-term abortions usually take two days. Medication is given to dilate the cervix the first day, and the baby is aborted the second.)

Two young women got out of the car, walked to the guard shack to sign in, and went into the clinic.

"About 20 seconds later, the driver and Hope(less) employee Ryan Goski came walking out of the clinic back to the car," reported Angela. "Our red flags went up. The woman opened up the driver's side door to unlatch the trunk, which Ryan then opened. We questioned him, 'What's inside the trunk?'"

Angela said Ryan grabbed a "bloodied, brown bag" from the trunk and walked back inside the abortion mill with the driver.

"He tried to hide the bag from us so we wouldn't be able to photograph it," said Angela. "It was hard to fathom how a mother, let alone a human being, could treat another little human being as if it were trash."

Abortionist Yogendra Shah didn't arrive for another 65 minutes. The two women left the mill 3-1/2 hours later, the mother pale and the driver cursing and threatening Angela and her group.

Was this just an aberrancy (as if "aberrant" and "abortion" don't go together already)?

In her email Angela described the recent "football baby" incident. This time a young couple brought their baby to the mill after she was delivered at the motel where they were staying between the first and second day of the abortion procedure.

"As they approached the deathguard shack, the nervous young man dropped the bag and the baby spewed onto the walkway," said Angela. "Before we could focus our camera, the guard yelled for the male accomplice to, 'Kick it! Kick it in here.' And he obliged by repeatedly kicking the baby girl inside [the shack], where they held up until [someone] came out and helped all three get inside [the mill]."

I wonder if the pro-choice side are as horrified with these stories as they are with the idea of unborn babies on chopping boards and soup bowls?

It's equally disgusting. But do they see it that way?

That is quite disgusting, not going to lie, as I'm personally opposed to abortions beyond 12 weeks (unless the fetus has a fatal defect or the mother's LIFE is in danger).

*shrugs*

Isn't it so sad, Rae?...that little baby girl could have had a mother who would hold her, give her kisses and blow on her little tummy and listen to her sweet laughter...and instead, the tiny one, who never even got a chance, was being jerked around in a brown paper sack, and kicked into an abortion clinic. :-( I just can't fathom such inhumanity.

Even though all abortions are wrong,I feel that these late trimester abortions are the absolute worst!There is always the possibility that the child will live through the procedure and suffer some more.Heartless,heartless parents I say.I wonder if this selfish no good mother will sleep well at night.The only thing this couple wants to do is get back to their carefree lifestyle.

It is rather sad yes, that people get into situations that that sort of behavior is warranted (but not excused by any means). I do find that behavior quite revolting indeed. I mean come on...kicking it? Yes, it's a dead fetus, but the remains ought to be handled more respectfully than that. For crying out loud, amputated limbs are handled better.

PS.Isn't there a better way to handle human remains? {The abortion issue aside for a minute}Seriously,isn't this abuse of a corpse?

"It's equally disgusting. But do they see it that way?"

Of course we do. We're not stones, we have feelings as well. And in this case, I feel that guy should get some kicks himself.

I know somebody will say I'm a heartless murdering babykiller or something (I'm sorry to take the wind out of your sails), but we don't actually know there were any remains in that bag. We're just speculating now on a grainy photo.

It reminds me of Dr.Jack Kevorkian assisting with suicides in the back of his van in the woods.Quack,quack,quack!

The guy deserves some kicks in the place that helps him make babies in the first place...damage that and then they won't need to get abortions as they can't have little chitlins no more.

People like this ought to be sterilized...cripes.

First of all, of you judgemental faux do-gooders have a clue why this particular individual was seeking a late abortion. Perhaps it was a matter of being able to have future kids. Perhaps the mother and father are not particularly happy about this. None the less, they need to return to the clinic on with fetus and make sure everything's there, as oposed to stuff going necrotic inside the woman. Antics such these, chasing them around with the bag, ultimately will discourage people from returning for a follow-up should they abort prematurely at the hotel/home, and I think, should they die or suffer infections because of that doesn't help advance you fetus-centric cause in way shape or form.

That was funny Rae,I couldn't agree more!!How bout a vasectomy without any anesthesia?

Meh, vasectomies aren't terribly painful from what I understand.

Though I do believe in castration via rusty spork for rapists and child molesters.

So be it!lol

What's most disgusting about this, is imagining what would have happened if the "counselors" had actually gotten a hold of the fetus and started parading it around like a trophy. Who's really ugly now? Jill would probably smear the blood on her face like war paint and charge the clinic ululating.

Meh, vasectomies aren't terribly painful from what I understand.

Though I do believe in castration via rusty spork for rapists and child molesters.

Rae, I love being able to agree with you! :)

Well I'm done hatin' on men for now...as I do know some men are very nice and respectful and I also realize that some women are just as bad as bad men can be.

@Cameron: QLTM. RAmen.

What's most disgusting about this, is imagining what would have happened if the "counselors" had actually gotten a hold of the fetus and started parading it around like a trophy. Who's really ugly now? Jill would probably smear the blood on her face like war paint and charge the clinic ululating.

If one of the counselors had gotten hold of her you can bet anything that baby would be in loving arms of someone who would see to it that she would have gotten a dignified burial and memorial.

In addition to what you said Rae,I would never let the mother's off the hook.I have plenty of male friends that wish that the women in their lives wouldn't have aborted.Those women give women in general a bad name.Some of these guys would have made great dads.Unfortunatley,the woman's choice is the only one that matters.A good friend of mine told me about the day his wife[now ex-wife] told him the news about her abortion.She screamed "I WAS pregnant!"@#%$(*&&A few curse words followed.then she yelled"I had the little bastard sucked out of me!!!"He was devestated.He never knew.Shame on her!

Cameron, 3:53p, said: "... what would have happened if the "counselors" had actually gotten a hold of the fetus and started parading it around like a trophy. Who's really ugly now? Jill would probably smear the blood on her face like war paint and charge the clinic ululating."

Cameron, you are vile, wicked. I cannot imagine the darkened mind that would think what up, never mind actually type it.

As I said, there are bad people in both genders. And it really bothers me that people use abortion as a means of revenge...that's just irresponsible and immature on their part.

Oh.. Come on Jill... you're just mad because you know it's true. You all be running out into the street with the pre-baby corpse and shoving it in the windows of cars passing by... Looky what abortion does... looky at the dead pre-baby... we're so rightous.

Cameron, I've held one of those aborted babies until he died. Just SHUT UP.

Well then Jill... would you like to explain the scuffle? Why the bag broke in the first place?? At the very least, it seems respect for the dead is second to the opportunity to get some good photos with which to advance the freaky save the pre-baby cause.

Explain to me what the *&$% they were trying to do?? I really don't think a "proper burial" was at the top of their minds, and you don't either, hence the "shut up"

Doing so would be to place pearls before swine, my friend.

Welcome to the Vile and Wicked Club, Cameron. Good to have you on board.

So..... taking the fetus is somehow moral? im sorry, but if my baby had died in my wives womb and we had to have it removed, i think the only thing that could possibly make it worse is being harrassed by ignorant people with cameras, who intend to steal the fetus, and bury it without my permission...

has it never occurred to you people that there are other things going on at an abortion clinic? that the mother may not want the pregnancy terminated but has to to survive it? or that the fetus was going necrotic and needed to be removed?

oh, and Jill, im calling BS on you. the fetus is dead before its expelled from the uterus, so if you held it before it died you had your hand through a womans cervix, and your hand is probably what killed it in that case.

Oh Liam Please.4000 abortions a day.Pregnancy is not an illness or a plague.It's a normal condition.Yes,there are pregnancy related illnesses,but not 4000 a day!

So what's the pearl here??? Bringing-up such a gruesome story in the first place so you could put it in peoples' faces and try to make some sort of self-righteous point at the expense of an unfortunate couple in IL?? Nice!

I really like how everyone started out speculating how pro-choicers might defend such a thing, as though making it political capital isn't just a bit unconscionable to begin with. The counselors were like a macabre version of paparazzi, waiting for a bloody version of the beaver shot.

You should really think about this stuff a little better. You look like a 5 year old screaming how mature and old enough you are as you cry and grudgingly stomp-off to bed.

No,Rae is pro-choice and even she feels it isn't right.

"Pregnancy is not an illness or a plague.It's a normal condition."

Possibly. I fail to see the relevance, though.

"If one of the counselors had gotten hold of her you can bet anything that baby would be in loving arms of someone who would see to it that she would have gotten a dignified burial and memorial."

The way Frank Pavone of Priests for Life has given a dignified burial to the fetus he brings to protests? Doesn't Operation Save America also have a fetus they refuse to bury, instead parading it around at protests?

"Oh Liam Please.4000 abortions a day.Pregnancy is not an illness or a plague.It's a normal condition.Yes,there are pregnancy related illnesses,but not 4000 a day!"

Ok,
A) I wasn't talking to you.

B) Proper grammar dictates you put a space after a sentence. Please, you just look ignorant and people arent going to take you seriously.

C)ID&X, AKA third trimester abortions are done EXCLUSIVELY for health reasons, and as such, I think its fair to say there was a good chance if this story is true that the mother had serious health issues and probably did not want to end the pregnancy.

Liam, here is what Jill's testimony states:

"But what was most distressing was to learn of the method Christ Hospital uses to abort, called induced labor abortion, now also known as "live birth abortion." In this particular abortion procedure doctors do not attempt to kill the baby in the uterus. The goal is simply to prematurely deliver a baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward."

And by the way,

"Other hospitals have now admitted that they commit live birth abortion. It apparently is not a rare form of abortion. But Christ Hospital was the first hospital in the United States to be publicly exposed for committing this form of abortion."

"Doesn't Operation Save America also have a fetus they refuse to bury, instead parading it around at protests?"

I'm pretty sure messing with human remains is a crime in most states. If not, it certainly should be (obviously organ donors and donors to science aside).

Tell that to Flip Benham.

"Anti-abortion activists over the last week have trotted out an aborted fetus in a vacuum-packed bag, torn up then burned a Quran, shredded a gay pride flag, and preached Jesus' message over loudspeakers in the street." ~Clarion Ledger, Mississippi

So what's the pearl here??? Bringing-up such a gruesome story in the first place so you could put it in peoples' faces and try to make some sort of self-righteous point at the expense of an unfortunate couple in IL?? Nice!

Cameron, you're a hyopcrite. If this were a pro-'choice' story about pro-life women 'waving fetuses' as you so eloquently described in your sick fantasy, you'd have no problem with it.

The reason Jill posts these gruesome stories (at least you have the ability to admit it's gruesome), is to expose these people for what they're doing, to raise awareness so that people can know what is happening behind the label of "PRO CHOICE".

What were they doing Bethany? They were coming to the clinic for help. But I spose you'd rather the woman die a month later due to sepsis because there's a rotting finger still in her womb.

Bethany = tool

yet this doesnt talk about pro life groups or people who do things like "wave a fetus", opr the hate that they commit, only stories that can create emotional feelings for the pro life side.

Like I said, you're a hypocrite.

That above post was for Cameron, not you ,Dan.

"he reason Jill posts these gruesome stories (at least you have the ability to admit it's gruesome), is to expose these people for what they're doing, to raise awareness so that people can know what is happening behind the label of "PRO CHOICE"."

and as I said, nothing about what people are doing under the label of "PRO LIFE", such as the quotes somewhere up above.

I figured bethany, no worries

Wow, is this what the world is getting at?
Seriously, Would pro-lifers here prefer the woman DIE of complications in order to "pay" for her "Carefree lifestyle.?"

It's the truth, dear pro-aborts. It's what's actually going on. All these years you haven't and won't hear about it in the press. This is balance. This is what it means to be you.

bethany, what? that they were obviously distraught at the loss of a pregnancy and didnt happen to have a biohazard box or miniature coffin in a hotel room when the woman prematurely aborted?

no one is arguing that abortion is nice. only that women have a right to bodily integrity. whether or not i agree that what they can exercise with that right is neccesarily moral.

so why pick on late term abortions? because they are closest to viable fetuses? thats precisely why to leave them alone. there have to be some severe extenuating circumstances for the abortion to be occuring in the first place that late in the game.

and why did they burn a koran? and what does everyone have against gays? seriously. they dont have abortions and their not hurting anyone. i say leave them be as long as they dont stick anything up my butt.

"that little baby girl could have had a mother who would hold her, give her kisses and blow on her little tummy and listen to her sweet laughter...and instead, the tiny one, who never even got a chance, was being jerked around in a brown paper sack, and kicked into an abortion clinic. :-( I just can't fathom such inhumanity."

Yes the fetus could have had a good mother one that did all those things. But it could have had a mother that beat, spit, kicked and done several other horrible things as well.

Overall this whole story makes my stomach turn.

By the time I read your postings, Jill, everyone has said everything there is to say. Excellent work with your blog!

Except for...

Cameron - There wouldn't be a finger still floating around the in mother if the baby hadn't been chopped and sucked to pieces!!!

And who are you calling a tool??

Hypocrite: a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

Be honest now Beth... who here do you think is pretending to have morals and such??

I think you stop throwing around big words here if you don't what they mean and can't otherwise keep up.

weird... i cant find a single reference to live birth abortion or induced labor abortion that doesnt just directly quote jill stanek or come from a decidedly anti abortion site... figure the AMA would have had something to say about it by now... unless we're alledging that they have something to hide.

Ryan Cameron was just trying to say that there could be parts of the fetus still inside the women.

Liam, try googling "Hialeah abortion" or "Baby Rowan abortion" for starters.

"It's the truth, dear pro-aborts. It's what's actually going on. All these years you haven't and won't hear about it in the press. This is balance. This is what it means to be you."

Really, Jill, I would expect better than petty name calling from...wait, no I wouldn't. well, at least not from you. so tell me, why call me pro-abort? you dont know my stance, you dont know my beliefs, and i have yet to say anything about either, just said that this was a reprehensible situation drastically exacerbated by the presence of pro life fanatics.

oh, and did you have the parents permission to hold their expiring fetus? because i can't really see that happening. unless of course you have had an abortion you haven't told us about. don't worry, we forgive you for your sins.

"Cameron, you're a hyopcrite. If this were a pro-'choice' story about pro-life women 'waving fetuses' as you so eloquently described in your sick fantasy, you'd have no problem with it.

The reason Jill posts these gruesome stories (at least you have the ability to admit it's gruesome), is to expose these people for what they're doing, to raise awareness so that people can know what is happening behind the label of "PRO CHOICE"."

no, we are not ok with things like this in any way, no matter what side. it's sick. don't make stupid assumptions.

you know what this exposes? nothing. LATE TERM ABORTIONS ARE GRANTED FOR HEALTH REASONS ONLY ARE DONE IN HOSPITALS. you can't just get one because you don't feel like having a baby. most women who have late term abortions wanted the baby in the first place but couldn have it otherwise. it's horrifying to me that they are being treated as criminals. where's your compassion for their suffering? nowhere because you're too busy demonizing them.

late abortions millls? gimmie a break.

"There wouldn't be a finger still floating around the in mother if the baby hadn't been chopped and sucked to pieces!!!"

Translation: we are justified stooping to the lowest common denominator to get a picture of it so that we may transcend the gummy-baby image libraries with the genuine thing and disgust our way to a Social Security registration upon conception.

Dan, did you really expect anything else from a pro-life site? And besides, anything you or anyone else here has shown us to "expose" the pro-life sides errors, we have never denied, unless it was patently false, or if it was twisted in such a way that it was made to sound different than what actually happened. And we clarify with links and articles. And we obviously are not in agreement with the people who make a bad name for us.

BTW, I have never seen Jill censor anything that you or anyone else has posted about pro-life "scandals" (unless it was false or contained vulgar content).

Liam, anyone like you who defends partial-birth abortion is the worst kind of pro-abort.

Jana - I understand.

There wouldn't be pieces of a child inside of a mother's womb unless a WHOLE child was divided into PIECES.

Jill-
I don't think liam necessary defended partial birth abortion...

"Translation: we are justified stooping to the lowest common denominator to get a picture of it so that we may transcend the gummy-baby image libraries with the genuine thing and disgust our way to a Social Security registration upon conception. "

your nuts.

So nobody besides Liam has anything to say about the anti-abortion groups using "vacuum-packed" fetuses in their protests? Where's the outrage? Where's the disgust at the way human remains are being treated by the very people who swear they are trying to protect the unborn? I expected more from you.

Hypocrite: a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

Be honest now Beth... who here do you think is pretending to have morals and such??

So you are freely admitting you do not have morals?

yeah, jill... didnt come up with much... did finally find an account of what was really going on with the live birth (technically induced labor) abortions... which, technically arent even abortions... really more "induced premature births"
again, these are only performed when there is a substantial health risk to the mother, and only performed because it is the safest way to extract the fetuse vis a vis the mother. so really, you should be for it. the child has a chance (however slim) of being the next miracle baby to survive at 21 weeks.

and yet i still dont quite believe someone consented to you holding their dying fetus.

and that bag doesn't look to bloodied to me.

sweet propaganda.

oh wait... let me correct my spelling...

YOO AR NUTZ!

the baby rowan thing is completely made up. so many people have discredited it.

stop lying jill.

Jill, if you continue to call me "pro-abort" without knowing my stance, i can't honestly take you seriously. you dont ask, you assume. thats your problem. i said, why trouble late term abortions when their done for medical reasons, rather than early term abortions that can be done electively?

and if you call me "pro-abort" based on the fact i think its moral to terminate a pregnancy that would result in the death of the mother and the fetus, i must resort to thinking of you as Pro-Death for sentencing an innocent mother to death with no hope of saving a fetus, and i believe even the staunchest of pro lifers (IE the Holy Catholic Church) would agree with me. Yep, even the Holy See is on my side.

"Dan, did you really expect anything else from a pro-life site?"

course not, because then it would be at least attempting to be unbiased rather than pro-life

"And besides, anything you or anyone else here has shown us to "expose" the pro-life sides errors, we have never denied, unless it was patently false, or if it was twisted in such a way that it was made to sound different than what actually happened. And we clarify with links and articles. And we obviously are not in agreement with the people who make a bad name for us."

Nor are we, yet Jill seems to try and make it out that we are for some reason, I wonder why that would be?

and as was already said, wheres the anger over the vacuum packed fetus being paraded by a pro life group eh?

Beth,

Morals??? I certainly don't attempt to capture images of dead babies so that I can feel better about myself... if that's what you call morals and virtue!

What do you do Beth? Shoplift then go home and self-flegullate or something??

What kind of pro-aborts go to pro-life blogs and get into arguments like this anyways?

Is Jill going to read one of your comments one day and suddenly have a 'eureka' moment and convert to the pro-abortion clan and start a CHOICE blog!?!

Bethany,

"I have never seen Jill censor anything that you or anyone else has posted about pro-life "scandals" (unless it was false or contained vulgar content). "

a. Absense of Evidence is not evidence of absense. She DELETES them as in, makes the unviewable, if there not veiwable how would you expect to see them?

b. I believe the last time I was here she was deleting posts because they contained the word "hymen"

Hey, I say we all get paintball guns, pick and time and a place, and have at it for a couple of hours.

And whoever doesn't have any paint on them at the end wins the argument.

=)

Okay so I am totally jumpiping in in the middle, but I want to put my two cents in.
1) I do think it is sick that they kicked the fetus...I think it is even more sick that they felt they were in so much danger from the pro lifers that they had not choice but to kick the fetus into the guard shack.
2) Who knows what is really inside that bag, its a grainy picture, and you are just assuming. We all know what they say about those who assume....

"b. I believe the last time I was here she was deleting posts because they contained the word "hymen""

The word Hymen is a pro-life scandal? :-S

Or maybe it could be that the way you used it was vulgar. Like I mentioned above.

"What kind of pro-aborts go to pro-life blogs and get into arguments like this anyways?"

the same kind of people who are pro life who go to pro choice sites and pick apart the posts and comments, not to mention the ones that want to attempt to have *gasp* an intelligent debate! or to point out falsies or inaccuracies, thats fun too.

"Is Jill going to read one of your comments one day and suddenly have a 'eureka' moment and convert to the pro-abortion clan and start a CHOICE blog!?!"

dont that happening with Jill, but it can happen, I used to be a member of the pro life camp before coming over to the pro choice side

So, Jill. I'll make a little assumption of my own.
I am going to assume you are a Christian, like myself. I am also going to assume you think yourself a good christian, I won't try to guess at that, i dont know you. I do, however, find it helpful to remember a few things in my daily life as a christian, that help me be a better christian and a better person, these being:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord (not ours, us being human)

God is Love

Let he that is without sin cast the fist stone

God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

and most importantly

Judge not lest ye be judged.

which would have me say, love the sinner, hate the sin, forgive others and you will be forgiven. Christ was a smart guy, and even if you don't think he was the Son of the Most High, and dont neccesarily believe what he said was absolute truth, i think theres a lot you can learn from Jesus.

thanks for reading jill.

ryan: i don't expect anything from a nitwit like her because she refuses to accept facts and lives to comdemn people. but if she has a right to spew her crap, so do i.

Erin - well, at least you're honest about the crap part.

I still think a paintball battle would help this discussion.

All the pro-aborts on one side, the pro-lifers on the other...

liam, that was beautiful, but she won't respond because she doesn'at care or aknowledge anything that doesn't agree with her or prove her wrong.

What do you think about pictures from the holocaust, Cameron? Who is the sick one in that situation...the photographer who exposes the cruelty, or the ones who did the acts?

http://partisantimes.typepad.com/partisan_times/images/holocaust
_victims_1.jpg

http://www.holocaust-history.org/hungarian-photos/jpg/05-0512.jpg

"b. I believe the last time I was here she was deleting posts because they contained the word "hymen""

Ooo, I was here that day too and got my posts deleted. Why? Because we were trying to explain to HisMan that a hymen does not prove virginity, i.e. there were a bunch of us how has had our hymens broken while horse back riding.

Is this vulgar talk, Bethany? Trying to disprove to someone that a hymen means virginity (an idea that gets women killed in some areas). That's vulgar? Really?

yes, but bethany, they werent fighting to take the pictures and attacking some one else simply for the chance to try and take a photo

Also, Cameron, would you be as deeply offended by pictures of diseased lungs that people show to expose the dangers of cigarette smoking?

http://www.robertsreview.com/images/cancer_px_compressed/
lung_cancer_adenocarcinoma_tumor.jpg

look, i have a problem with people who aren't compassionate and are so self-righteous, meanwhile, call themselves christian. it's not their job to judge. IT'S GOD'S JOB.

yes, but bethany, they werent fighting to take the pictures and attacking some one else simply for the chance to try and take a photo

Huh?

ah, but erin, then we couldnt have criminals punished for crimes because we cant judge ;)

Dan, I don't like intillegant debates.

;)

When I see a picture of a bloody, dismembered corpse of a child, I tend to believe something less-than-kosher has transpired.

"What do you think about pictures from the holocaust, Cameron? Who is the sick one in that situation...the photographer who exposes the cruelty, or the ones who did the acts?"

Bethany... Actually it was the Nazis who took the pictures. They took pictures of everything, especially medical experiments. There records were impeccable.

I assumed you were comparing those photographers to the ones who tried to photograph the fetus, big difference between the two.

Edit: A majority of the pictures. Obviously not the ones after liberation of the camps.

Thats the reason we know so much about the holocaust, they took ridiculously good records at most of the camps.

look, i have a problem with people who aren't compassionate and are so self-righteous, meanwhile, call themselves christian. it's not their job to judge. IT'S GOD'S JOB.

Some Biblical views on Judging:
http://www.thestormshelter.net/judging.html

"Also, Cameron, would you be as deeply offended by pictures of diseased lungs that people show to expose the dangers of cigarette smoking?

http://www.robertsreview.com/images/cancer_px_compressed/
lung_cancer_adenocarcinoma_tumor.jpg"

can i ask for a little favor? next time you post a link like that do it when im not lighting a cigarette please?
lol

This is hardly a "debate" anyway.

Aww, Bethany brought up the "I'm not judging you, I'm simply stating and correcting you" argument. How cute...

No one seems to be reading my comments..

I'll have to say something mean and intelligent...

omg, you actually pulled the holocaust card. seriously, so upsetting to me that people still say this. any holocaust victim would punch you in the face for this. why? because they were completely conscious the entire time they were being tortured and starved and persecuted, while knowing everyone they love is quite possibly dead or dying. a fetus knows NOTHING OF LIFE. there is NO comparason there. get off the high horse on this one.

so ignorant.

"I'll have to say something mean and intelligent..."

thats typically how things seem to go, to be noticed people seems to insult first before making their reply.

I think it would be aweful if anti-smoking people jammed a camera down a poor saps throat, unwillingly, to get the shot. Aparently you all don't think that's wrong though... go figure.. bodily autonomy's not exactly priority one with people trying tyring to make gestation compulsory

Here ya go Bethany,

http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/gallery/p152.htm

They weren't taken by people trying to expose the nastiness of the Nazis. They were taken BY THE NAZIS!

"When I see a picture of a bloody, dismembered corpse of a child, I tend to believe something less-than-kosher has transpired."

That's not really mean or intelligent... just common sense.

Is this vulgar talk, Bethany? Trying to disprove to someone that a hymen means virginity (an idea that gets women killed in some areas). That's vulgar? Really?

Danielle, I was there before they were deleted. I know what they said. I seem to remember something someone posted about different slangs you can use for different sexual organs, but I'm sure you wouldn't remember that. What good that did to contribute to the discussion, I'll never know.

This is Jill's "internet home". If you don't like the way it's operated, go elsewhere. There's plenty of abortion blogs on the internet.

Using Beth's argument... I guess it's OK for NAMBLA to distribute pictures of naked children.

see, im pretty strict with my interpretation of the new testament (obviously parables aside, if you take them literally you'd think the bible came with commercial breaks) and when it says not to judge, i do my best not to, and know that i better not condemn anyones actions. being an ex-con im really in no position to judge or condemn anyone.

and in the case of parables... you have to love the prodigal son. what more uplifting tale of forgivness can there possibly be? well, other than jesus actually dying on the cross for the sins of mankind. i mean. thats a pretty big sacrifice/big deal.

my point (assuming i have one) is: wouldn't it be better to help people than condemn them, regardless of what they may or may not have done, and is any of us qualified to condemn another for their sins, sinners as we all are? i can tell you i think what you are doing is wrong, but i have no right to prevent it, and certainly no right to harm you in the process.

just a thought.

bethany, if you're going to preach, preach his word, not you're own....like jill here.

Who's word are you referring to? It is certainly not God's word you are talking about, because I sent you a link which showed several passages of His word proving you were wrong. If you're right, prove it to me Biblicly.

I'm serious... This would be a great group for a paintball shootout. Do any of you live in Minnesota?

Danielle, you might want to read your own links before you post them.

Many (ie. not all) of the photographs documenting the Holocaust, which are available today, were taken by the Nazi government as part of their passion for detailed record keeping.

So if it's okay for paparazzi to harass people to get pictures of their fetus, then I'm sure your fine with the fact that princess Di was hounded by the press which caused the car crash which killed her. But ya know, they were just trying to show the world her relationship with Dodi Al Fayed. No harm there? Ha.

http://www.emergency.com/dianaded.htm

"ah, but erin, then we couldnt have criminals punished for crimes because we cant judge ;)"

not cute dan. i'm talking about in regards to the bible.

Its sad business being a canuck- We're NEVER where the party's at.

Ooooh... the calm before the storm!! here come more intelligent comments!!

Bethany,

Maybe you should have kept reading further down the wall:

"Edit: A majority of the pictures. Obviously not the ones after liberation of the camps.
Posted by: Danielle [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 10, 2007 05:29 PM"

I have to say its pretty despicable for anyone to compare anything to the holocaust. you all consider it safe, but really there havent been any other occurences in human history with the possible exception of the colonization of the americas where you saw slavery, genocide, and mass torture all on that scale in one place in such a short timespan. i think you all owe a holocaust survivor an apology.

I'm slightly put off by the fact that no one knew for sure why these women were going to the clinic, and assumed it was an abortion. Miscarriage, anyone? It's likely they put the remains in a sack to be examined, just to make sure all the parts were expelled from the uterus.
It is sad that they resorted to kicking the fetus inside to hide it from the protesters, but I think it says more about the pro-life movement than the pro-choice movement. They were so harrassed and afraid of someone commercializing a baby they may have wanted that they panicked and did what probably seemed necessary at the time. If life is so precious, why parade around pictures of death to make your point, to show how disgusting abortion is, to show how ugly a process it can be? Wouldn't the message be less mitigated by these hypocrisies if in fact pro lifers dedicated their time and effort to promote what they say they are all about--life?
The use of pictures will never make sense to me, particularly in public places like the student union at my university and the public roads by these clinics. I don't really have a problem with them being on the internet--just like pornography, I have a choice not to look at it on the net.

I'm going to start calling these pictures of mangled fetuses and the clammoring to get a better shot at the remains falling out of the bag "fetal porn". Not in the sense it gets a sexual response, but in the sense that the images serve to provoke a strong emotional response and are used ad nauseum to promote a political movement with no real regard to the fetus in the content of the picture whatsoever. Jill, that makes you a fetal pornographer. Glad to know you have to use pictures/digustingly explicit stories to make your point. But that's only because you realize a scientific or objective basis will never be enough to convince anyone to be pro-life. It only takes emotional pot-shots, objectifying the fetus and the women in question.

bethany, she had amended her statement, she realized her mistake.

well, bethany, turns out to be a good link after all....

"2. Condemning and Criticizing (Bad Judging)

Using people’s sin as an excuse to lower or belittle them.
Harsh punishment without encouragement to follow.
Cursing a person or prophesying destruction into their lives. Note: it is ok to warn someone of possible consequences, but it is not ok to say things which may discourage the person or lead them to believe that the worst is the only outcome they will have.
Sentencing with no mercy.
Correcting someone when guilty of the same thing."

HAHHAHAHA MY POINT EXACTLY.

All Right. I've had enough fun.

Off to Chipotle.. gonna get me a burrito!

bethany, she had amended her statement, she realized her mistake.

There are so many posts, I admit I missed it.

i love how you poeple won't address what i said about the holocaust. too afraid to respond to anything that might make you look wrong.

i have to wonder, am i not being responded to because im not inflammatory enough or because you all enjoy the sin of arrogance too much?

okey doke, just pointing it out.

Yeah, Gosh.

I think it's because people keep leaving so many annoying comments that don't pertain to anything that's being discussed!

Gosh!

Ryan,

Uhh. Kind of like you going on and on about paintball??

Erin, they won't address anti-abortion groups using fetal remains in protests either. Anything that casts a less than positive light on the movement is ignored. You should know that by now.

Danielle.

I was being sarcastic =)

Using people’s sin as an excuse to lower or belittle them.
Harsh punishment without encouragement to follow.
Cursing a person or prophesying destruction into their lives. Note: it is ok to warn someone of possible consequences, but it is not ok to say things which may discourage the person or lead them to believe that the worst is the only outcome they will have.
Sentencing with no mercy.
Correcting someone when guilty of the same thing."

Where have I belittled anyone, Erin? I have "called a spade a spade", but I have said nothing to intentionally insult a single person on this site, or condemn them to Hell.

However, I do notice that you didn't refute me with the Bible (as you keep claiming you want to do) but by a short exerpt from the very site I sent you.(BTW, I was aware of what the site said, that's why I posted it).

The only Bible verse that you have used is "Judge not that ye be not judged"..but that verse is taken way out of context by way too many people who don't even balance or compare it with other scripture to understand what it means. It's a very dangerous way to read the Bible.

Yes, Joy.

All pro-lifers and HYPOCRITES!

BOO THEM!!! BOOOOO!

So you think that kicking a fetus into a clinic to try and get it away from prying eyes is a bad thing. Disrespectful.

But why is it not disrespectful to post pictures of dead fetuses all over the internet, carry it around on signs, or even carrying an miscarried child around an pro-life rally (some priest did that, don't know his name. Someone else might)?

Would you post pictures of your dead children on the the internet to show respect to them?

i find it amusing i still havent been replied to on any of my posts about human decency...

But why is it not disrespectful to post pictures of dead fetuses all over the internet, carry it around on signs, or even carrying an miscarried child around an pro-life rally (some priest did that, don't know his name. Someone else might)?

Would you post pictures of your dead children on the the internet to show respect to them?

um, I did. I posted pictures of my miscarriage on this very site to expose what babies look like at such a young age. And I didn't think it was disrespectful at all. My baby is buried beneath 5 beautiful weeping cherry trees which bloomed this year and were lovely. My baby's picture is being used in pregnancy crisis centers now to show people the beauty of what lies inside the womb even at such a young age (the baby was 6 weeks and already had hands and feet, fingers and toes, a mouth, tongue, eyes and ears...and the cutest little tummy ever. I love my little baby and am looking forward to the day I will see him or her again.

So yes, danielle, I would.

This is the same Jen. For some reason I was booted off and I had to create an account. Oh well.

Liam, I feel you. Well, maybe Jill is crafting a response. Or she banninated me. Either way.

Ah, bannation, the ultimate flattery

Bethany,

Okay, now what if someone else had tried to take picture without you wanting to and then put them on the internet, how would you feel? If it hadn't been your decision to photograph your miscarriage and a harassing crowd of people had done it, how would you feel?

"In Genesis 2:7, the King James version reads, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Though Adam possessed the body of a human, he was not alive until his first breath. Pro-lifers will argue that a fetus is a person because it contains a human-like body and human DNA. However, a baby takes not its first breath until birth. Therefore, like Adam, they are not living human beings simply because of their form; they become living humans when they have taken their first breath."

This whole story is disgusting. Fetuses should not be kicked, and Christians should not assume that every paper bag harbors the body of a pre-born.

Okay, now what if someone else had tried to take picture without you wanting to and then put them on the internet, how would you feel? If it hadn't been your decision to photograph your miscarriage and a harassing crowd of people had done it, how would you feel?

If I was being victimized and the pictures were to show the horror of what I had gone through, i would not have a problem with it. I would want the story exposed!

"In Genesis 2:7, the King James version reads, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Though Adam possessed the body of a human, he was not alive until his first breath. Pro-lifers will argue that a fetus is a person because it contains a human-like body and human DNA. However, a baby takes not its first breath until birth. Therefore, like Adam, they are not living human beings simply because of their form; they become living humans when they have taken their first breath."

Cameron, we've already been there, and done that. Read the posts in the link below:

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2007/04/happy_easter.
html#comments

But Bethany, surely you realize not everyone thinks that! They dont want to be in the papers or gawked at for having the abortion, it was clear they didnt want photos taken, why should their fetus' picture be everywhere without their consent?

I think the whole thing is disgusting. It is sick that they felt they were in so much danger from the pro lifers that they had to kick the fetus into the shack. That is sick!
Vultures...

But Bethany, surely you realize not everyone thinks that! They dont want to be in the papers or gawked at for having the abortion, it was clear they didnt want photos taken, why should their fetus' picture be everywhere without their consent?

What can I say? I'm sure those babies didn't want to be aborted either.

Bethany...the fetus doesn't have the ability to THINK about what it wants...

Bethany...the fetus doesn't have the ability to THINK about what it wants...

Hmm that's funny...I don't think a newborn baby has that ability either. Do you support infanticide?

bethany, new borns CAN think and choose, try again.

bethany, a newborn has the ability to think...I do not support infantacide

Ok dan, in what ways does a newborn baby choose?

You mean in the same way that an unborn child can dislike different foods in the womb? Or the way a fetus can cry, or laugh in the womb? Or suck it's thumb because he likes it? Oh and did I mention they struggle like mad when they're being aborted?

I guess you're right. They really can think and choose. Just not on the same level as you or I.

Do you support NAMBLA Beth?

bethany...when i said a fetus cannot think and choose you said "Hmm that's funny...I don't think a newborn baby has that ability either."
which would mean you agreed with the thought that a fetus cannot think or choose....and in your next post you talk about all the ways a fetus can think and choose....

Do you support NAMBLA Beth?

No.

bethany...when i said a fetus cannot think and choose you said "Hmm that's funny...I don't think a newborn baby has that ability either."
which would mean you agreed with the thought that a fetus cannot think or choose....and in your next post you talk about all the ways a fetus can think and choose....

In the way that he was talking about, no, a baby cannot think and choose, on the same level as you or I can. And they honestly can't. Would you expect a newborn baby to vote?

However, on a lower level, they do think and choose. Like on their likes and dislikes. Their will to live.

That doesn't mean that they're less human however, just because they don't think on the same level of development as an adult.

Sorry of this confuses you.

You must support NAMBLA Beth... pictures of children and such. They're exposing the autrocities of having an adult only sex world

"You mean in the same way that an unborn child can dislike different foods in the womb? Or the way a fetus can cry, or laugh in the womb? Or suck it's thumb because he likes it? Oh and did I mention they struggle like mad when they're being aborted? "

Ok, a fetus doesn't laugh in the womb. I dont know where you got that.

As for struggling like mad when they're being aborted, I think first you need to specify at what point the abortion is taking place (because a 7 day old embryo sure as hell doesnt struggle). Secondly, any apparent struggling is due to reflexes, not a conscious thought like "mommy, dont kill me". That's ludicrous.

You must support NAMBLA Beth... pictures of children and such. They're exposing the autrocities of having an adult only sex world

Cameron, that's ridiculous and you know it. Do you know some NAMBLA members who expose pictures in an effort try to protect children from harm?

Don't worry I was not confused. I just think it is amusing that you change your arguement (and what you are willing to admit to be true) based on the arguement at hand.
very interesting

Don't worry I was not confused. I just think it is amusing that you change your arguement (and what you are willing to admit to be true) based on the arguement at hand.
very interesting

I didn't change my argument. Newborns CAN'T think or choose, not at all on the level that we can. This is what I was responding to in reply to Dan. There is no flip flopping here, I stick to what I said.

Can you ask a newborn baby if he wants to live or die?

If he can't answer you, does that mean he wants to die?

This is your logic.

Obviously, the newborn baby can't voice his opinion, and he doesn't even have a well "thought out" opinion, like you or I would.

But they sure as heck have the ability to fight and struggle for their life if they're being attacked, whether in the womb or out. Even the extremely young unborn children can do this.

Holly mighty morphing position Beth.... so what is it... is it OK to take pictures of things to advance your cause or not????

BTW... fetus' nervous system is does not begin myalination until week twenty something. So, even though there is some grey matter, cell's can't even talk to each other and there is nothing beyond reflexive neuronal activity.

My, my, you pro-aborts are certainly dredging the depths to defend your abysmal ideology tonight. Now you're trying to take eyes off the topic by accusing Bethany of being pro-NAMBLA? Rich.

One thing I love about having this blog is being able to post about the reality of abortion and the abortion industry. You've never read or seen this stuff before because MSM won't tell the truth about abortion.

Interestingly, the worse I show, the more wildly you protest - too much, actually. You've staked a position, and by golly, if that means defending people who kick their dead preborn children, you'll find a way.

Secondly, any apparent struggling is due to reflexes, not a conscious thought like "mommy, dont kill me". That's ludicrous.

I'm pretty darn sure that the newborn baby doesn't have the ability to think "mommy don't kill me either". But I know it can fight and struggle to stay alive.

Bethany,

A mosquito doesn't want to die either, but do you think twice before squashing it? No.

Interestingly, the worse I show, the more wildly you protest - too much, actually. You've staked a position, and by golly, if that means defending people who kick their dead preborn children, you'll find a way.

Isn't THAT the truth!

Bethany,

A mosquito doesn't want to die either, but do you think twice before squashing it? No.

Wow, Molly, human beings are no more important than mosquitos to you? That's scary.

Jill,

all living things struggle to keep living, its an evolutionary trait. This doesnt really mean anything.

maybe we protest jill, because it is tasteless. absolutely tasteless.
The "news" you post here is usually slanted. Like today. You don't know why those people went to get abortions. Since it was "late term" (which is NOT a medical term) it had to be for health problems. Those people probably WANTED their baby. They were probably going through hell. And the pro lifers made it even worse with their tasteless scare tactics.

Bethany,

I didnt say human life is less important than a mosquito's, I simply dont thing that the "struggle for life" defense is convincing because all living things do that.

Come up with a better one.

ill,

all living things struggle to keep living, its an evolutionary trait. This doesnt really mean anything.

So it must be ok to kill newborn babies, and ...well, basically any human being, based on your logic, then.

Bethany,
I didnt say human life is less important than a mosquito's, I simply dont thing that the "struggle for life" defense is convincing because all living things do that.
Come up with a better one.

I don't need to. I was replying to someone who stated (incorrectly) that fetuses don't want to live. I said something that proved otherwise.
What else is there to say? Nothing.

Bethany,

no, I'm only saying that the mere fact that something struggles for life doesnt mean that we should be required to give it life at any expense. That is all I am putting forth.

Bethany,
no, I'm only saying that the mere fact that something struggles for life doesnt mean that we should be required to give it life at any expense. That is all I am putting forth.

When that "something" is a human, it makes a big difference.

Jill, i am not condoning them for kicking a fetus. That is sick.
I just also think it is sick that they felt they were in so much danger from the pro lifers that they HAD to do that. I think it is amusing how you ALWAYS ignore some things we bring up. Like how disgusting and tasteless it is to have so many pictures of aborted fetuses at pro life rallies, or carrying around a miscarried child at a pro life rally.
SICK.

A fetus living inside and depending on a woman's body for support should not have more rights than the woman herself.

If a fetus had a parasite living inside of it that was feeding off of its nutrients, and ultimately putting the fetus' health at risk, would you say that the mother had every right to have a medical procedure to remove the parasite?

I just also think it is sick that they felt they were in so much danger from the pro lifers that they HAD to do that.

Perhaps it wasn't so much that they were "afraid" but that they were "ashamed".

If a fetus had a parasite living inside of it that was feeding off of its nutrients, and ultimately putting the fetus' health at risk, would you say that the mother had every right to have a medical procedure to remove the parasite?

This old argument again?

http://www.l4l.org/library/notparas.html

Well, that's enough death talk for me tonight. I need to make dinner. Hope you all take care and have a good night.

bethany:
This post is late, but I am having computer problems.
A baby will struggle if you choke it, try to move itself so it can breathe if it is underwater. a baby can try to live. a fetus cannot. a 9 week old fetus cannot try to live if it is in danger of dying.

Bethany,

I think the only problem with your statement is that you use the word "want" in reference to a fetus. My point is, a fetus no more "wants" to live than does a fly, it's simply acting.

Mars, 6:53p: "Tasteless"? Is that the worst you think about this? Not disgusting, vile, animalistic? People who walk in to an abortion mill to commit a late-term abortion, which is a two-day process, are not having health problems. They're having severe problems with ruthless, completely ignorant self-centeredness. Aborting their baby in a hotel room? So much for safe, legal abortions. Bringing their baby back to the mill in a paper bag in their trunk? Demented.

And all those descriptors apply to their defenders, too.

Behtany,

I didn't define the fetus as a parasite, I am simply making a comparison. The reason I personally would be alright with removing a parasite from a fetus is because 1) I don't think the parasite would know the difference and 2) (if the fetus were mine and I wanted to carry it to term) my reasons for removing the parasite from my fetus would be take precedence over the parasite's effort to survive because it is depending on something that belongs to me for life -- my rights outweigh those of the parasite

How do you know the baby was "aborted" and not miscarried?

I'm just curious, not fighting here

So if they are committing illegal acts why arent there any police there too? why didn't anyone call the cops? oh...not one of those prolifers called the cops...could it be...because they were doing it for LEGAL reasons?
If it truely was an Illegal abortion, that is sick and sad. But what I am saying, and that you don't seem to get, is that it could be for health reasons. and that would make the protesters the sick and twisted ones.

i have one quick question
the title of this is "Junk in the Trunk" You are referring to a fetus in the trunk of the car. if a fetus is so precious how can you call it junk?

Oh, Mars, that's clever, but let's not drift.

It's obvious that these people don't think it was junk.

Question:

If abortion was made illegal (as many here feel it should be) what would you propose happen to all of those unwanted children.

Ideally they would all be adopted by loving families who could care and provide for them, but that's not exaclty realistic.

And making it illegal won't end abortion (there would still be women inducing miscarriages, and, by your standards, murdering babies). Should that be considered homicide? How would we enforce that?

sorry, i was just curious about that...back to the subject at hand

no harm, no foul Mars my friend

Molly, it would probably be homicide/suicide.

yes, Mars, I'm sure in that sort of world women would be stoned to death for such actions (after all, its the life of the fetus that is important, the mother's health and wellbeing naturally comes second...)

well of course, women are only good for child bearing. if we can't do it we may as well die trying...

hahaha, sound like youve got your head screwed on straight.

seriously, where did everyone go? I thought things were getting interesting?

I guess it's time for me to go do something productive too

It is incredibly stupid. One. Junk in the Trunk refers to a fat butt...but she uses it to refer to a fetus....yuck

sorry my dad called...ha ha ha

Molly, 7:12p, asked: "How do you know the baby was "aborted" and not miscarried?"

Hope clinic is an infamous late-term abortion mill. That's all it does. Look it up on the web.

Furthemore, when a mother miscarries a late-term baby at home, she does not go to an abortion mill. She goes to a hospital ER or to her ob/gyn.

Plus, this was this mother's second day in a row back at the mill.

Mars, 7:15p, asked: "So if they are committing illegal acts why arent there any police there too?"

Who said this was illegal? These late-term abortions are perfectly legal. Don't you know what you support?

The only illegality would have been if the baby were aborted alive and they killed him or her.

Molly, 7:22p, said: "If abortion was made illegal (as many here feel it should be) what would you propose happen to all of those unwanted children."

Molly, are you saying your solution to unwanted children is killing them? And how many pregnancies start out unwanted and end up major blessings?

"Molly, 7:22p, said: "If abortion was made illegal (as many here feel it should be) what would you propose happen to all of those unwanted children."

Molly, are you saying your solution to unwanted children is killing them? And how many pregnancies start out unwanted and end up major blessings?"

I think it comes down to that people want sex without consequences -- If you want to call getting pregnant a consequence. Go ahead, be offended - but it's true.

Molly, 7:29p, said: "after all, its the life of the fetus that is important, the mother's health and wellbeing naturally comes second..."

Wrong, Molly, pro-lifers love them both. We don't look at an unplanned pregnancy and condone killing the baby as you do. We love babies, and we love their mothers. And we prove it. What are you doing besides promoting abortion? That's so easy.

late abortions millls? gimmie a break.

I personally stand outside of one every Saturday and watch girls drive in from out of state to have an abortion at 24 weeks.

And the reasons they give? I'm not ready. I'm too young (tho they are usually over 21)...

Only once did I ever hear anyone say that they wanted the baby but had to have an abortion for health reasons.

One woman stood and rubbed her swollen belly and admitted that the baby was kicking...then she went in and murdered it. Her reason? She wasn't ready to become a mother...

Once again, people who still believe the earth is flat.

The evidence is in front of you, and you still deny it.

Even if this woman was on deaths door, which by the way she didn't appear to be, she could have picked up her child and held her head high, then carried it into the clinic. You kick soccer balls, not children in lunch bags.

Rae, good for you. When you see it, you call it.
Again, lots of guts to admit when something is wrong even if it means siding with "the enemy".

I am gaining respect for you (she says as if Rae is just salivating at the thought of receiving her respect..)

This is what Valerie means by an honest debate. Seeing the truth even when it means "giving" a little.

Bethany is right...it does feel good to agree with you on something.
mk

this new having to sign in is a pain in the butt, this is the THIRD time i've had to retype this message.

Yes Jill there area unwanted children out there. Look at all the children in foster care, not to mention the ones that aren't in foster care. I'm not saying that abortion is the solution. I work with a lot of unwanted children and it makes me extremely sad. Don't get me wrong, i work with a lot of wanted children too.

Sorry i had some spelling errors in there everyone.. opps

My point is, a fetus no more "wants" to live than does a fly, it's simply acting.

And the oscar goes to the fetii who appears to want to live the most...

Thunderous applause...

"I am gaining respect for you (she says as if Rae is just salivating at the thought of receiving her respect..)"

Eh?

*tilts head*

Got here a little late, and everyone seems to be gone...

Ryan,
Your posts were delightful.
Bethany, always a pleasure.
HisMan, missed you.
SOMG, didn't miss you.
Danielle, same old same old.
Cameron, I won't even dignify you by acknowledging you.
Molly, Mars, Jana...welcome. Now if only you'd say something we haven't heard before.

I find the evolution of this last month and a half very enlightening.

The pro-choice/abortion movement has gone from saying that it is not a human being, it is a blob of cells. To

It is a human being, just not a person. To

It is a person but what difference does that make, it still life versus person autonomy. To

It isn't a person, it's a parasite. To

Eating them is okay. I would never tell a person what to put into their own body. To

It's the pro-life people's fault that those people were forced to play rugby with a baby-in-bag.

It just keeps gettin' better...

And not one of you sees in inanity of it all.

Ahhh, what us pro-lifers do for entertainment.
Ryan had it right. Paintball.

Maybe we could use dead babies as targets and then put it up on Jill's site so that we could somehow get blamed for the whole thing.

The world has gone stark raving mad.
mk

Rae,

I guess I just assumed that your life's greatest desire was to earn my respect :)

After I wrote that you were gaining my respect, I realized how pompous that sounded. Like if you really care whether I respect you or not...

mk

I don't feel very welcome by your statement MK. I feel it was kind of rude actually. Just so you know, I have heard all the pro-life stances before too. In fact one of the stances I have heard from people who are pro-life is a religious stance.

Respect is nice, and I appreciate that you feel you can respect me, but it's not that terribly important.

But thank you.

It a point of view I hear a lot.

No one seems to be reading my comments..
I'll have to say something mean and intelligent...

Ryan, I noticed your comments and I appreciated them...just wanted to let you know! :)

Jana R,

I don't feel very welcome by your statement MK. I feel it was kind of rude actually. Just so you know, I have heard all the pro-life stances before too. In fact one of the stances I have heard from people who are pro-life is a religious stance.

Then I won't bore you by repeating them.

I wasn't trying to be rude, just pointing out that the whole personal autonomy, fetii, pro choice not pro abortion, thing gets old after a while.<