By Bethany Kerr:

I realize most of the commenters who replied last night are very young, and therefore are going to be childish at times. (Sometimes I am childish myself, I agree).

However, what happened last night does kind of prove what we've been saying all along...that pro-abortion supporters despise free speech.

I realize I am using a generalization, so here is my disclaimer: I do realize there are those of you that are fair in debate, so please know that I am not speaking about you when I write this. (example:PIP can be very fair and courteous in debate). For those who are kind enough to participate in fair debate, thank you.

Hisman's article, which was posted last night, was an "opinion" article, expressing HIS opinion about abortion, and why abortion is wrong from a faith standpoint. He expressed clearly in the beginning of the post that it was going to be from his faith's perspective, and he did not at any time express otherwise.

The attacks started early last night, and continued until this morning, when I disabled further comments from coming. I was in disbelief that there were actually over 600 comments attacking him for his beliefs!

Where is the tolerance and love the pro-choice side supposedly promotes towards faiths and religions of all kinds? I didn't see ANY tolerance last night or this morning when I read the comments again. Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about, although if you want a better idea, you can go back and read the comments in the article Hisman posted:

1. Most people reading this blog have to wonder if you are the most qualified person to judge what is rational and what is not, HisMan

2. If abortion is murder, you are a cranberry.

3. This one directed at momof3: MOM: please spare us the dumb crap g** argument you use then...

4. Hey Daughter of His Man!!!
   Sup Sugar??

5. ohhh what happened to Jesus' bo (His Man)??

6. For a second there, I thought Jesus' bo was transgender... then His Daughter... whew!!
   His Dauther (sic),
   Have you asked your father if your a an in-vitro left over... adopted for the purposes of being a pro-life poster baby? Seriously... your pa's got some zeal, and you should consider...

7. well everyone going into pp is a murdering whore...i mean they are using pp which sometimes provides abortion, so they are condoning it by going there...
   OH NO! I am a murdering whore...

8. Listen, HisMan, we get it that you have issues with people who believe differently from you. I think you need to grow up now, though. It's childish and petty.

9. HisMan
   I doubt your daughter is a warrior. I think she is brainwashed to believe what you think.
   Your sons will probably never find a strong woman who would love them. If they are anything like you a strong woman would see that they are simply trying to control her, they would leave him,
   Hope your sons have fun with their meek and mild wives and I hope your daughter has fun with the guy who will control her life. Thats what she is used to with you right?

10. As the daughter of a religious leader, I have learned at his feet what the proper way to teach a child is and what the wrong and abusive way to teach a child is. Brainwashing is wrong, immoral, abusive, disgusting, harmful, destructive, and on and on. I hope you're proud of yourself.

11. LOL... OH ya? My daddy's bigger than yours... I guess even your righteousness has limits...
    ... assault and battery has likely been on your mind long before I knew you had a daughter.

12. Why do you believe in Jesus? Because Daddy told you to and that if you didn't, you would go to Hell, or because you have gone on a life-long spiritual journey examining the gospel and the history, learning as much as you could about it, before settling on your beliefs?
    I highly doubt it's the latter. Your anger at the suggestion supports my doubt.
    And I find it laughable that you think you can tell me, "I haven't been brainwashed." How are you supposed to know if you've been brainwashed or not? That's the most abusive part of it. You don't even know you're being abused. I feel very sorry for you.

13. Congratulations, HisMan. You are an abusive father.

14. If I were HisMan, I wouldn't let my daughter even use the computer. Too many Satanic influences for her to get caught up in on the big scary internet.

15. HisMan, I also think you are probably an abusive father, not physically but emotionally and mentally.

16. I have to wonder why HisMan hates women so much.

17. 
    Just the fact that he needs to write a list of her accomplishments shows that even he doesn't think he's as strong as he's claiming she is. I could list my accomplishments, but I don't need to prove anything to anyone. He feels like he has something to prove. It's so amusing.

18. Lindsey:
    He would make her have it, no matter what kind of emotional stress he put his daughter under. Under all his caring pretenses he honestly doesnt care about anyone but himself and his personal beliefs.

19. HisMan is a delusional, cult-brainwashed dupe. And so are his kids.

20. HisMan, if you can choose to be gay, please try it.

21. She [hisman's daughter]will most likely end up with a man that beats and forces himself on her. She is being raised to believe that the man is always right and you must obey him at all times. I feel so bad for her.

22. I have never in my life been so disgusted by another human being. The sheer ignorance and uneducated mind it takes to make such a statement as you did hisman is obviously just as ignorant and uneducated in life.

23. See, HisMan, we know how to love those who have opposing views from our own (sic). You should try it one day.

24. He has to be playing his ignorance up cuz this is on the net or something...

25. You, HisMan, are guilty of being one of the most blasphemous men I have ever encountered. You are only a man. You do not speak for God.

26. I think you fancy yourself Jesus Christ. That's very sad.

The list goes on and on but I think this is enough to give you the idea.

If these people really think Hisman is crazy, then why are they so threatened by him that they have to resort to all these types of replies instead of just ignoring him?

I don't even believe they were trying to reason with him. They were attempting to silence him. As they were STILL arguing at 5:40 in the morning when I awoke. As soon as I saw this, I disabled comments for that topic. It was getting beyond ridiculous.

If you don't agree with Hisman's words this much, and you obviously can see you're not getting anywhere by arguing with him, why not let it go? He is not forcing you to believe what he says. If you weren't threatened by what he said, then why stay up all night, why not just leave it with a few comments, then leave..... There were at least 12-15 of you insulting and ganging up on one person who is alone? Is that really fair debate?

Aww thanks Bethany :)

Can't imagine getting up at 5:40. I'm SO not a morning person.

lol when you have three kids you tend to wake up a little earlier, haha :) I used to not get out of bed till about 10:00 before I had kids....wow, that is late comparing to what I do now. :)

Hope you're having a good morning! :)

Bethany -

Because I am a suppressed woman who has no brain and cannot think for myself, I do not have time to read all the posts since I am a stay at home Mom who believes my children come before my life. Could you please, briefly, tell me why they were attacking his innocent daughter?

PIP - Good morning. I love the fact that my kids are not morning people. My 1 year old daughter didn't wake up until 8:45AM (my time). aahhhh.... Next year I'll go into shock though because my son will be going to kindergarten.

Because I am a suppressed woman who has no brain and cannot think for myself, I do not have time to read all the posts since I am a stay at home Mom who believes my children come before my life. Could you please, briefly, tell me why they were attacking his innocent daughter?

Count me in as a suppressed woman too. I have no idea what they were thinking attacking his daughter. That was so rude. What relevance it had to the debate I'll never know. I feel that when these people can't find a good counter argument to offer, they simply resort to insults.

HisMan -

I am sorry that I was not there for you last night. No matter what was said, attacking your family in such a vile matter is never acceptable.

I agree that was a little below the belt.

Good Morning! I woke up at 8 today and am already a little exhausted, but it's all good. You have to wake up early AND deal with kids! Again, I can't even imagine!!

Well I"m off to theology class. Got a paper due today. Have fun ladies!

Bethany,

It is soooo funny that you posted this:

When I emailed you to find out why the comments were shut down, I was trying to post this:

Oh, beautiful, HisMan: a blog entirely without any legitimate sources, completely from a religious perspective.
Posted by: Less ] at April 17, 2007 07:30 PM

Its people like hisman that have made me lose my faith and why I think organized religion is crap.
Posted by: Jana at April 17, 2007 08:35 PM

It is people like HisMan that turn me off Christianity for good. I hope you're proud of yourself for that.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 08:47 PM

Well then, momof3, you're CHOOSING to be ignorant.
Posted by: Less at April 17, 2007 09:38 PM

You can call it whatever you want. But the fact of the matter is, if you're speaking in English, you have to use the English language within its parameters: definitions, grammar, syntax, and so on. If you attempt to use one word to define something that it doesn't define, you're not operating within the parameters of the English language, and no one takes you seriously. Rather, they think you're silly and amusing for your mis-speak.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 09:38 PM

I know... They don't eve know basic medical & legal FACTS... It's just mind-numbing...
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 10:01 PM

No, sweetie. You currently HAVE a zygote. You will be HAVING a baby in the future.

Do you not understand how tense participles work?
I'd be glad to explain them to you if you'd like.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 10:44 PM

JANA FTW!!!
Posted by: Kate at April 17, 2007 10:58 PM

I feel sorry for your children for the abuse you have perpetrated on them over the years. There is nothing worse a parent can do to a child than brainwash them.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:10 PM

None the less... assault and battery has likely been on your mind long before I knew you had a daughter.
Posted by: Cameron at April 17, 2007 11:15 PM

The way your daughter responded, with such anger, proves to me that you're brainwashing her. She's so angry that someone would question you, question your beliefs, that she doesn't know what to do except lash out angrily. It's very telling. Congratulations, HisMan. You are an abusive father.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:28 PM

I don't even know why we bothered to respond to this post, lol. HisMan's claims are so outrageous that even the majority of the pro-life movement would roll their eyes and say, "Uh, are you on crack?"
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:40 PM

And hisman... I'm ashamed that you are of the same religion as me... Your attitude makes me sick and ashamed that you "represent" my God
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 11:44 PM

He's probably going to reply with a ton of Bible verses that really don't apply to those who don't believe in God and tell us we're all sinning whores who are going to burn in Hell unless we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
Posted by: Heather at April 17, 2007 11:56 PM

"By the way, his parents brainwashed him too. "

Great... that means neither of them why she menstruates... how to calculate ovulation... etc... But I'll bet they can suck the plaque off each other's teeth just the same.
Posted by: Cameron at April 18, 2007 12:02 AM

"I am not the brainwashed one because to be brianwashed means you can't see the truth when it's staring right in front of you."

You are.. in no uncertain terms, just a wee bit ideologically preoccupied... and more so than most. But hey, call it what you will! I personally think that maybe they're slipping you a micky at communion.
Posted by: Cameron at April 18, 2007 12:19 AM

HisMan is a delusional, cult-brainwashed dupe. And so are his kids.
Posted by: SoMG at April 18, 2007 12:20 AM

Aww... thank you Lindsey.

HisMan, you're a pathetic excuse for a human being and you make most Christians ashamed to be Christian because of how terribly you reflect on the entire religion. Are you proud of yourself for that? Does that make you happy? Do you like being angry and hypocritical?
Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 12:25 AM

Ilana, Dont you know that gay people can be "reprogrammed" to not be gay anymore.
DUHHHHH It is so OBVIOUSLY a choice to be gay so that you can deal with biggoted jerks like hisman
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 12:28 AM

You're pathetic, you know nothing of the world, and even better, you're making stuff up about me to attack.Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 12:35 AM

Excuse me all for a moment... I need to go vomit... I'll be right back...
Posted by: Emily at April 18, 2007 12:41 AM

I have never in my life been so disgusted by another human being. The sheer ignorance and uneducated mind it takes to make such a statement as you did hisman is obviously just as ignorant and uneducated in life.
Posted by: lindsey at April 18, 2007 12:41 AM

I hope you have a jewish friend or co worker who beats the crap out of you for saying that abortion and the holocaust are comparabale.
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 12:50 AM

Yeah my boyfriend thinks it is stupid that I blog and stuff but he started reading what hisman was saying about holocaust=abortion and making his daughter have her baby if she was raped and now he thinks hisman is the biggest Ahole ever
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 12:53 AM

Emily: maybe it is that he knows he views are laughable and idiotic so he would never say them in the real world, just here
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 12:59 AM

I think HisMan needs to check himself into a mental institute.
I honestly think he is crazy.
And then I think he needs to live with a bunch of prochoice women and jews. that way everytime he is a dumbay$$ they can slap him.
Aversion Therapy
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 01:03 AM

Pisaquari
sorry we are ignoring you, hisman is just a terrible human and he makes us mad.
Posted by: Mars at April 18, 2007 01:09 AM

HAHAHAHA, definately not a death threat, I just said that I do not believe that people such as yourself should be able to exist.Posted by: lindsey at April 18, 2007 01:15 AM

Out of the two of you, Emily is the true Christian. You are hypocritical and judgemental, rude and blasphemous, and you think you are God. You are certainly no Christian.
Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 01:17 AM

so His Man has finally joined the pro choice side, though I think that would hurt more than help us. Maybe now he'll let us duct tape his mouth shut.
Posted by: Dan at April 18, 2007 01:19 AM

His Man: The only use I can think of for having that many bibles is for kindling for a nice toasty fire.
Posted by: Rae at April 18, 2007 01:20 AM

HisMan,Bethany

great piece yesterday. It was right on, I couldn't agree with you guys more. God-bless.

For the "tolerant" liberals: this is what they do when they are losing a debate (resort to personal and offensive attacks). They become very child like.

But this by far is the best one:

I don't need to waste my time attacking the pro-life movement, they do all the work for me. I just need to sit back and laugh.
Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 01:24 AM

Mk you pulled a lot out I didn't even see! Some of them are really shocking.

Jasper, I agree completely.

HisMan,

I posted this for you while you were in CA...
Don't want you to miss it!

So here it is again...

HisMan,

I thought you'd like this...

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:

» Convert the sinner

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

These are based on the teaching of Christ and on Church practice since apostolic times.

The spiritual works of mercy are oriented toward the soul. The corporal works of mercy are oriented toward the body.

isn't this what you keep saying?

By admonishing the sinner you are saying: "I care about you and your ultimate good, and I will tell you what you'd rather not hear, even at risk of pain, trouble, or your rejection of me." You are in a situation of love with other people; you can't help but care. As Christians we can't give up on one another even if our attachments cause us suffering.

Why HisMan, I do believe you'd make a great Catholic...LOL :)

MK

Emily,

Dear True Christian that you are,
Let's review, shall we?

Except I'd never say you were dumb or that your reasons for believing what you do are dumb... I think you are 100% entitled to your opinion... No matter how much it would hurt women across the country...
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 09:50 PM

*lol* Oh lord... Talk about dumb crap...
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 09:53 PM

AND

I know... They don't eve know basic medical & legal FACTS... It's just mind-numbing...
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 10:01 PM

LOL!!

And it only took her three minutes to contradict herself too!

I just loved Wicca... I still do... Even though I am a Christian... I will defend Wiccans until my dying day... The are some of the nicest, most peaceful people in the world... I never met one who was mean or rude...

Maybe you should read some of your own posts:

And hisman... I'm ashamed that you are of the same religion as me... Your attitude makes me sick and ashamed that you "represent" my God
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 11:44 PM

Excuse me all for a moment... I need to go vomit... I'll be right back...
Posted by: Emily at April 18, 2007 12:41 AM

He has to be playing his ignorance up cuz this is on the net or something...
Posted by: Emily at April 18, 2007 12:57 AM

Hmmm... That could be... I just CAN'T believe someone would be this hateful and ignorant in everyday life
Posted by: Emily at April 18, 2007 01:01 AM

Perhaps you left the Wiccan "religion" because you weren't able to abide by the "no mean, no rude" rules? Or was it the "Harm ye none" on that got ya? Can't be pro-choice without being willing to cause harm. I mean wiccans respect all living things, don't they. Not just human ones?
Oh, I've go it, you were afraid of the " Anything you do will come back to you three times over", cuz if I were you that one would scare me...an abortion coming back at me threefold? Now if you were to admit that the abortion were wrong and ask forgiveness, you could always fall back on your new (age) faith, this so called Christianity of yours, and not have to worry about "things" coming back to "haunt" you threefold.

Hisman makes me seriously consider becoming Wiccan again.

At least if you were wiccan you would be a hypocrite or a blasphemer...

mk

Ilana,

And by the way:Yeah, see the capslocks and the multiple exclamation points? That's what we here call anger and weakness.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:50 PM

Oh, thanks for clearing that up, I was soooo confused...

I AM NOT OK WITH ABORTION... I hate abortion... But I realize there are better ways to get rid of it than by outlawing it... That WILL NOT help anything... And I also realize I CANNOT force my morals on other people... I WILL NEVER support abortion... I only support a womans right to choose it if she feels she needs to... I can't judge anyone else's decisions... Those are between them and any God they believe in... Not me
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 10:58 PM

Bulllllllllllllllllllllllll--tttttttt
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:57 PM

HIS MAN???? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU> PLEASE RESPOND
Posted by: lindsey at April 18, 2007 12:00 AM

EVERY SINGLE THING you are saying to ME can be turned right back onto you. That is what a hypocrite is, HisMan. You are a hypocrite. Time to get over yourself.
Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 12:16 AM

HIS MAN- IF GOD DIDNT WANT ABORTIONS THEN WHY WOULD HE MAKE MANKIND SMART ENOUGHT OT THINK OF THEM AND THEN CREATE THE DEVICES TO CARRY THEM THROUGH? (IF IT MEANS YOU WILL ANSWER ME YOU CAN THINK IM ILANA)
Posted by: lindsey at April 18, 2007 12:19 AM

Oops,

I hit post, and there were soooo many more examples to go:

Oh well, on to another example of hypocrisy:

I feel sorry for your children for the abuse you have perpetrated on them over the years. There is nothing worse a parent can do to a child than brainwash them.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:10 PM

As the daughter of a religious leader, I have learned at his feet what the proper way to teach a child is and what the wrong and abusive way to teach a child is. Brainwashing is wrong, immoral, abusive, disgusting, harmful, destructive, and on and on. I hope you're proud of yourself.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:15 PM

The way your daughter responded, with such anger, proves to me that you're brainwashing her. She's so angry that someone would question you, question your beliefs, that she doesn't know what to do except lash out angrily. It's very telling. Congratulations, HisMan. You are an abusive father.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:28 PM

Yet:

Ilana,
You call that anger? Good try.
You use words like "sweetie" when addressing other women.....isn't that demeaning?
Be careful before you slander me.
Let's get back to the point of this post or can't you handle that? I mean it's obvious you're on a power trip. What are you trying to compensate for? A daddy who wasn't there for you?
Posted by: His Man at April 17, 2007 11:39 PM

So you can call HisMan an abusive father, and his daughter brainwashed, but when he asks you if your doing this because you had an abusive father (which you brought up, by the way) you respond with:

I thought we were going to get back to the post, HisMan, and not slander others. Maybe you should practice what you preach.
You're an excellent hypocrite. You condemn me for something and in the same post, do it yourself. That is the mark of a typical false Christian.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:42 PM

And your esteemed colleague (who so gracefully ignored your comments, but jumped on HisMans) says this:

"What are you trying to compensate for? A daddy who wasn't there for you?"
The fact that someone like you Hisman, would say something like this sickens me. How can you tell her not to slander you and then say something so ignorant and rude? Isnt it that Christians are nto supposed to judge other? You arent a Christian, you are a person that warped their view of the "bible" into what you want so the rules dont always apply to you.
Posted by: lindsey at April 17, 2007 11:43 PM

Perhaps you should take your own advice?

You are clearly a very sad man who is lacking something in his life, which is why you spend so much time judging the actions of others. Try it for one second: Judge yourself.
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 11:47 PM

Hmmmmm...judge yourself for once...does not compute. does not compute. error. does not com....

mk

Daughter of HisMan, that likely means that a fetus has implanted into the lining of the uterus. This fetus has come from a division of cells after a sperm and a fertlized egg meet and the fertlized egg manages to implant and slowly divide and grow into a blastula, a zygote, an embryo, then a fetus.
Posted by: Less [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 17, 2007 10:22 P

uhhh... That they are having a baby?
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 10:22 PM

There's a difference between saying "I'm having a baby" and saying "I'm pregnant". Usually those people that say I'm having a baby, really want to have a baby. If I were pregnant and didn't want to be, I would say "I'm pregnant" and then probably burst into tears.
Posted by: Kate at April 17, 2007 10:22 PM

"I'm having a baby!" Let's see. "I'm pregnant right now but in a few months I'm going to give birth and then I will have a baby!" Or, "My water just broke and I'm in labor and I will have a baby!"
Posted by: Ilana at April 17, 2007 10:23 PM

Thank you Kate.... I was just about to say the same thing!
Posted by: Emily at April 17, 2007 10:23 PM

DOHM:
it means in a few months they will give birth to a fetus that will be a baby...
Posted by: Mars at April 17, 2007 10:23 PM

Hey Bethany, Valerie, Mom,

Any of you guys ever been to a "zygote/fetus/blastocyst" Shower?

Me either, I usually go to "baby" showers.
mk

No I can't say that I have, MK...and if someone invited me to a zygote shower, I'd probably think they were out of their mind.

"I only support a woman's right to choose it if she feels she needs to . . ."

So if this woman decided that the best thing for her would be to kill her two-year old, her 14 year old, her husband, that would be okay too right? Because she felt she needed to, that would justify her actions, and why should we draw the line at babies in the womb anyways?

On another note, I have never posted before, but wanted to throw in my two cents. Blessings to all the pro-lifers who took a stand last night during this heated debate.

Thank you, SH, for your comments. :)

Thank ya'll for making some excellent points! If only we could be sure that it would reach the people who really need to hear it.

I will own up that I should have stuck my neck out for HisMan as a fellow pro-lifer. He debated from a good bit of knowledge on scripture (as did others) and that's something I do not possess (I did indirectly back him when he got attacked for the holocaust and abortion thing as well as the daughter carrying to term).

At any rate, knowing the Bible or not: I know rudeness. My apologies to HisMan for not stepping up in the more brutal of arenas last night/this morning. :/

Damn! Want some cheese with that whine?

What a bunch of whiners... I like how it's OK for Jesus' Bo to cast half of ameran people as synonimous werewolves, Hitler and the holocaust, theives, "ugly", etc... then you all feel compelled to close down the board because the repsonses violate your assenine ideas about freedom of speech.

Good work!

Personally, I'm proud to have been quoted so often on this thread. Years from now, my grand children will like celebrate my antics against the fetus-centric retards of this era.

Thank you, Cameron, for giving us more proof of your hypocrisy and arrogance. I appreciate it, truly. Keep them coming...this is the perfect thread for it.

Pisaquari, thanks for your comments. :) On this thread and the other.

By closing down the boards you are proving that it is you who have a problem with freedom of speech. We have a right to our opinion. We have a right to be disgusted by the reasoning used by a man who calls himself a "man of god".

WE are not inferior to you. Stop treating us like it just because we choose choice.

Bethany,

On a side note: you might find this exchange between Senators Barbara Boxer and Rick Santorum interesting. It happened several years ago but It could've just as well happened yesterday.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/notansweringboxersantorum.html

Hypocrite....

Who here is PRETENDING to have moral high ground??? Who here has pious convictions??

Unlike you bible thumbing nimrods, I've never actually proclaimed to have some sort of monopoly on any virtue. I just come here and shove the rest of the leg in for you when you all put your foot in your mouth... granted... not exactly a civil virtue... but I don't pretend it is.

At worst, I'm a juvenile social terrorist, inviting my black friends to a KKK meeting just to mix it up.

If I REALLY thought that someone made no sense at all,I sure wouldn't stick around and argue with them.If I were to go to a pro-choice site,I would take it for what it was and what it represented. So,it leads me to believe that these people really do feel that His Man just might be onto SOMETHING. They won't admit it,but they want it!

Cameron, it is spelled asinine, thieves, and synonymous. Not assenine, theives, and synonimous. Since you are so passionate about upholding freedom of speech I thought you would want to know your "speech" is incorrect.

By closing down the boards you are proving that it is you who have a problem with freedom of speech. We have a right to our opinion. We have a right to be disgusted by the reasoning used by a man who calls himself a "man of god".
WE are not inferior to you. Stop treating us like it just because we choose choice.

You know the old saying that goes, "your right to swing your arm ends at my nose"? Well, it goes the same way with free speech. This is not your website. The whole internet is right there at your fingertips to speak...you are free to say anything you wish, anywhere you wish. However, when it comes to someone else's site, you have to abide by their rules. Just like you are expected to be respectful and quiet in a library, and like you would not be allowed to yell "fire" in a movie theatre without cause.
Your right to complete free speech ends at other people's property lines. BTW, I think you've been able to make your position pretty clear at this site before the topic (not the board, FYI) was closed.

Wow! I guess I missed all of the halabalu. I figured Hisman's post would cause a stir, but I had no idea it would be like this!

Personally, having competed in the National Spelling Bee, Cameron's spelling doesn't bother me as long as he's got women's rights first and foremost on his mind. Since he's got that, I can't find fault with him. Sorry SH. His priorities are in the right spot.

Hypocrisy:

"that pro-abortion supporters despise free speech."

"They were attempting to silence him [Jesus' bo]."

"If you weren't threatened by what he said, then why stay up all night,"

"...until this morning, when I disabled further comments from coming."

At best Bethany (really gotta come-up with an unbecoming nick now)... pot calling the kettle black. Stop crying and get out of the kitchen if your not emotionally prepared to eat your vacuous words.

WE are not inferior to you. Stop treating us like it just because we choose choice.

No, Erin, of course you are not inferior to us. Your position being inferior does not make YOU inferior.

"..you have to abide by their rules. "

That would be one sided name calling.

OOOOOoooHHHhhh. Our position is inferior? So we're wrong to value the lives and health of women over that which uses their lives and health to survive? Ohhhh...now I get it. That's completely inferior. *rolls eyes*

Like I said, Cameron, your right to free speech ends at someone else's property line.

Jasper, thanks for the link!

Cameron,with all due respect are you a male or a female?

Yes... we know you're a hypocrite.... and we know that in your eyes, any opinion contrary to yours is some sort vulgar affront....

My opinion: Users in the internet discussions set the tone of the discussion, and if you�re going to resort to casting any every pro-choice person as �ugly� �ignorant� �stupid�� etc� you�re idiot for expecting a civil response, let alone respect.

Respect has to be earned.

That's better, Cameron. Thanks for removing the vulgar part of your post.

Right Cameron.Why don't you earn some?

Like I said before... I'm not particularly interested in your respect... and so long as I would not agree with anything and everything you say, without question, it doesn't appear that earning it is possible.

Cameron, I have never called anyone ugly or stupid. Ignorant, yes.
A person can be ignorant (uninformed) without being stupid (slow to understand).

Cameron,you came to a pro-life web site. I'm starting fresh. What is it you would like me to learn about abortion from you? Why should we keep it legal? Let's debate.

Like I said before... I'm not particularly interested in your respect... and so long as I would not agree with anything and everything you say, without question, it doesn't appear that earning it is possible.

If you're not concerned with it, then what do you keep posting here for, defending yourself?

Actually MK and I have come pretty close.... but then someone like Jesus' bo will pop in call me and accuse me of enjoying fetus pate' or something.

Bethany, we were simply excercising our right to free speech. I don't know why you have a problem with that. No one was saying HisMan COULDN'T say what he was saying, we were just disagreeing. Well within our first amendment rights.

I agree with Bethany, and momof3. There are plenty of pro-choice websites I am sure. Why are you at this post, when it obviously goes against what you believe?

Ilana, I looked through your posts, and most of yours are not insulting or degrading, and were legitimate arguments from your point of view. Thank you for that. However, I was speaking about the particular posts which were insulting and degrading, as you can see in my disclaimer above.

And to MK, my father is dead. Do not talk about the dead in that way. Since you do not know anything about my father except for him being a religious leader, I suggest you leave him out.

For the record, the first person who started talking about "dumb crap arguments" was your very own Momof3. So please, grow the hell up and stop being such a ridiculous hypocrite. You guys are sooooo freakin funny. The best part is, I obviously must have pissed you guys off a LOT because most of those quotes are from me. Sorry you don't like strong women.

Yay, Ilana's back. :D

And to MK, my father is dead. Do not talk about the dead in that way. Since you do not know anything about my father except for him being a religious leader, I suggest you leave him out.

Ilana, I'm sorry that your father has passed away.

What you said did imply that your father abused you though. You claimed that it was your experience with your religious father that showed you how NOT to raise a child. That is why MK said you claimed it. That's how I read it also.
If we were wrong, I'm sorry... that is just how it appeared.

Yes SH,and since Cameron disagrees, let's hear it. What do you want us to know about abortion? Get over the name calling and get on with it.

"Cameron, I have never called anyone ugly or stupid"

So far today... you've used "childish" "[un]fair" "[dis]courteous" etc...

The reasonable conclusion is that responses ellicited by His Man's lil' rant yesterday, while exceedingly volume, was proportional, and His Man loved it. Look at his response... how many... how late he stayed up.

In no uncertain terms, he picked a fight, he got it, and he relished it.

No no no no... ilana.... we don't have freespeech rights here... just them.

Jasper,

Were going to have to repost this on the next topic...if you only knew how perfect it was...

mk

So far today... you've used "childish" "[un]fair" "[dis]courteous" etc...

Yes. I have. Your point?

Ilana,Let's not beat a dead horse okay. If I did say something out of line,I apologize. I apologize to the site and to all of you pro-choicers. In fact,I did say it. I own it,and I do apologize.

My father was one of the kindest and most openminded men none of you will have the pleasure to meet, and I and all of his congregants were blessed to have known him. He took me to mosks, churches, synagogues, enabled me to learn about all the different religions in our area so that I would not have a limited view of the world based on my household. I'm more than lucky for that. I learned at his feet that simply accepting the word of God because it is the word of God is not enough, but that I need to understand WHY I accept the word of God. I will always thank him for that, as well. I miss him every day.

... but enough of my personal life.

SH,

Cameron, it is spelled asinine, thieves, and synonymous. Not assenine, theives, and synonimous. Since you are so passionate about upholding freedom of speech I thought you would want to know your "speech" is incorrect.
Posted by: SH at April 18, 2007 10:36 AM

Who are you and where have you been all this time.

No scratch that, what do we have to do to KEEP you here?

WELCOME !
mk

Cameron,you never answered my ? Are you here to debate or stir up trouble?

Hi MK! I guess I just got a wild hair today and decided to post : ).

Welcome SH! STAY!

"If you're not concerned with it, then what do you keep posting here for, defending yourself?"

Entertainment.

Where else can I learn that stem cell researchers are secretly harvesting embryos from people who wouldn't willingly provide them? Where else can hear that, upon conception, there should be some sort of ridiculous legal registration? Where else can i see a blatent hypocrite accuse everyone of being a hypocrite.

This is like Neil Simmon play... great stuff.

Alyssa,

OOOOOoooHHHhhh. Our position is inferior? So we're wrong to value the lives and health of women over that which uses their lives and health to survive?

Now you've got it. Good girl.

I do believe that that is the first truly intelligent thing you have ever said on this site.

If only you believed it.

MK, Bethany, Valerie, John,

Thanks for your concern. No apologies needed.

And, I wasn't alone. My daughter was with me for a while, but He was with me the whole time as He is always with me.

Perhaps, the church will wake up, perhaps?

And MK, thanks for the Catholic compliment.

I've got a question though, did last night's debate prove my point? Did anyone see any K-9s?

"Cameron,you never answered my ? Are you here to debate or stir up trouble?"

Mostly to stir up trouble... but sometimes someone actually get's something thought provoking going on. Mostly though, it's pretty futile to debate with people who change the topic or ignore the question once it becomes to challenging.

Cameron,just as I suspected. Here to stir up trouble.

Bethany,

A victory to end this grusome killing:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070418/D8OJ2NI80.html

Cameron,

My opinion: Users in the internet discussions set the tone of the discussion, and if you�re going to resort to casting any every pro-choice person as �ugly� �ignorant� �stupid�� etc� you�re idiot for expecting a civil response, let alone respect.

Gosh Cameron, looks like even your computer got sick of your spiels!

lol
mk

Cameron,

Nah, I won't even bother..........

MK, I find it interesting that you all DEMAND respect for your position, but refuse to pay the same courtesy to those who oppose your views. Very interesting.

lol

Not going to lie, that ban is a complete waste of political resources, considering the American Medical Association has already banned the procedure.

Ilana,

most of those quotes were from you, not because you "pissed" us off but because you made more derogatory remarks than anyone else. I didn't pick out specific peoples quotes, I just picked out nasty ones. Never even looked at who said 'em. Only when I refuted you personally did I know who said what...

And where exactly did I say anything negative about your father.

You just got finished explaining that you were exercising your rights to free speech, to express yourself, and then you tell me "And to MK, my father is dead. Do not talk about the dead in that way.

Which is it free speech for all, or only you?

And I didn't say a word about your dad. You did.
mk

Jasper,can you elaborate on this ban?

momof3, Jasper, before doing that, Wait for Mk's post...it's going to be a good one. ;-)

5-4 ruling overturning precedence (i.e. someone was talking out of his *&% during confirmation hearings). Great. It's not clear to me though if that was in response to the "in the case of woman's health" exception... or if the health exception is still applicable

OK-will do Bethany.

MK, I find it interesting that you all DEMAND respect for your position, but refuse to pay the same courtesy to those who oppose your views. Very interesting.
Posted by: Ilana at April 18, 2007 11:19 AM

Show me where I disrespected you and I'll be the first to apologize...

mk

MK, you specifically said my father abused me. Since you know NOTHING about my father, that is insulting and disrespectful, and incredibly rude. Do you often speak ill of the dead?

MK,there is no disrespect. I was on last night and I didn't see any. It's right up there with Jill and her so called "racial slur"

And by the way, I'd like to apologize to HisMan's daughter. It's not your fault your father got you caught up in all this and it was rude of us to attack you.

Thanks Bethany, I'll wait for MK's posting. Just quick -> thank-god for President Bush's nomination of John Roberts and Samuel Alito.

Ilana,

Watch carefully...

I made a mistake. I humbly apologize.
I had to read 600 posts this morning and when I read this: As the daughter of a religious leader, I have learned at his feet what the proper way to teach a child is and what the wrong and abusive way to teach a child is. Brainwashing is wrong, immoral, abusive, disgusting, harmful, destructive, and on and on. I hope you're proud of yourself. ,/i .

I thought you were saying that your father had forced religion down your throat much the way you accused HisMan of forcing it down his daughters.

It was an honest mistake, and I am truly sorry to you and to the memory of your father.

mk

And by the way, I'd like to apologize to HisMan's daughter. It's not your fault your father got you caught up in all this and it was rude of us to attack you.

Well done. Thank you. I know it was late, and everyone was tired. Things get said in the heat of the moment.

I didn't print all those things to make you guys feel bad, I just wanted you to see how out of control things can get.

Let's begin again...okay?

Good morning...you guys must all be very tired...

mk

Bethany,

The photo of the ant pressing against the finger on today's post was a good analogy, however, that's not how I felt at all last night.

When a person has the Truth, they are truly overcomers, and a majority.

Apology accepted.

Now I must go to class, all of you have an excellent day.

Okay Jasper and Mom,
the new post is up.

Have at it!

mk

"When a person has the Truth, they are truly overcomers, and a majority."

What happens to be the "indisputable fact" ; that half of our country is werewolves?? Maybe that half of our country is poor thieves pondering stealing the rich man's watch? Perhaps it's all the God/Satan stuff which of cours, if your an evangelical, is wishfully factual as opposed to faith.

Ilana,

Assumption is the lowest form of knowledge.

I did not force my daughter to get involved in last night's posts.

As I stated on a previous post last night, she literally ripped the keyboard away from me.

"The greatest friend of Truth is time, her greatest enemy is Prejudice, and her constant companion Humility."

Benjamin Franklin

"Assumption is the lowest form of knowledge."

You mean like assuming someone doesn't believe in God/Jesus because they disagree with you regarding abortion issue??

Ok, let me get this straight, if your side insults us its ok, but as soon as we decide to respond to it in kind, we are intolerant? because we all happenned to disagree with what one man said and found it sickening, we are intolerant? If a single person was able to bring that many into a rage, I think its the individual you should be looking at first before calling us all intolerant.

Disliking what one person has to say who claims its from a religious sect does not intolerance make.

Did i make derogatory posts last night? certainly, and I own up to it, and am actually surprised I only made the list once with some of the things Ii said. Do I think at least some of it was warranted? Absolutely. Did I go over the top at points? Yup, but thats what happens when people get angry.

for once I agree somewhat with Cameron,

Like Jejus chose to be our savior, HisMan was 'our' warrior last night. He seems to be a lightening rod ... because a aweful lot of people dump on him. It is frightening, but through it all not one person (even if they did not like what he did say), did not say that what he said was not true.

I really appreciate the input of pisaquari ... your points are superb ! {more on this later}

Maybe we pro-lifers on thise site can be very happy that HisMan took much of the venom that had been directed our way. Even though Ilana you got exposed to a number of faiths. You still do not understand HisMan's motivation. The new testament (especially John and Paul) often refer to the righteous as being 'in God'; in the old testament the words used are to 'know God' - this is the same kind of knowing from a loving relationship. HisMan knows Jesus ... and like it or not, is a person who seems called to speak 'as, for ... in Him'. I do feel priveleged that HisMan helps us. HisMan's-Jesus' truth reveals our fang-iness!

Again, assumption is the lowest form of knowledge.

If you say you are pro-choice, I do not have to assume anything. I know by your statement that you are for the killing of unborn children in the womb.

Or, am I to assume that if you say you are pro-choice, you ar really pro-life? Now that would be stupid wouldn't it?

"Personally, having competed in the National Spelling Bee, Cameron's spelling doesn't bother me as long as he's got women's rights first and foremost on his mind. Since he's got that, I can't find fault with him. Sorry SH. His priorities are in the right spot."

Hah, same here. What years did you participate, Alyssa? 1997-2000 here, went to nationals in 2000 and finished tied for 32nd.

"Just like you are expected to be respectful and quiet in a library, and like you would not be allowed to yell "fire" in a movie theatre without cause."

Horrible analogies. The first is manners and the latter is a legal issue. If we confront you on your opinions and state our own, it is not in violation of widely accepted mores, nor is it against the law.

P.S. I am pro CHOICE, not pro-killing babies. Seriously. If I were to get pregnant right now, I would have now issue with carrying the baby inside of me until birth. HOWEVER, I do not feel that it is within my rights to persecute or make that decision for someone else. I love children.

And furthermore, The Lord said "The meek shall inherit the Earth"...not the fundementalists.

You are no closer to the Lord than anyone else on this page. How dare you assume otherwise.

How do YOU know Erin?

Erin, you are right in turning to the Word of God for truth. The Bible also states "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." Psalm 139:13.

And I would dare say that those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior have a much closer relationship with Him then those who haven't.

Erin, you are right in turning to the Word of God for truth. The Bible also states "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." Psalm 139:13.

And I would dare say that those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior have a much closer relationship with Him then those who haven't.

I am in no way saying if you haven't accepted Christ God does not care for you. He most certainly does, for every one of His children, born or unborn.

Sorry for posting twice, my connection is not that great!

Mom,

she was assuming.

mk

Just like you are expected to be respectful and quiet in a library, and like you would not be allowed to yell "fire" in a movie theatre without cause."

Horrible analogies. The first is manners and the latter is a legal issue. If we confront you on your opinions and state our own, it is not in violation of widely accepted mores, nor is it against the law. .

Actually, they are great analogies, because Bethany was talking about manners. Simply common courtesy. Familiar with it? I ask because if you were, you'd know that that is what Bethany meant.

Not disagreeing with us. Disagreeing with us in a rude manner.

mk

Interesting development.

I wonder what Imus would say about freedom of speech right now?

See, you have freedom of speech, but I cannot go to any street corner and start using foul language and verbally assulting people. This is called disorderly conduct.

So, this freedom of speech excuse is very weak to be using here. People were attacking HisMan based on his faith. They attacked his daughter because she voiced her opinion. Those remarks are a perfect example of disorderly conduct.

MK, I never insulted HisMan's daughter. In fact, I left once the insults started flying in earnest. HisMan has called me extremely dangerous, told me that I'm going to hell, and repeatedly insulted me. Why is that okay but me pointing out (very truthfully, I might add) that his post was entirely from a religious perspective that not everyone subscribes to, and was entirely without sources is absolutely rude? I called someone (momof3) ignorant: something that one of your own, Bethany, has admitted that she herself has done:

Ignorant, yes.
A person can be ignorant (uninformed) without being stupid (slow to understand).

Please explain to me why it's okay for you guys to insult Danielle's relationship with her boyfriend (remember that? quite Christian of you, really.), and everything about my from my religious preferences (I worship a God of sex, hm, wasn't aware of that) to my choice of literature (rejecting God, hm?).

Less, no one insulted Danielle. Jill asked her some questions. Danielle answered them. Jill never said that Danielle was lying after Danielle answered the questions. She just asked the questions and left it at that. No insults period.
I am aware of Danielle's depressed moods at the time, but she did in fact overreact to the questions posed to her. I do not understand why she did not expect tough questions in a debate. Questions like that are asked constantly on both sides. There was nothing inappropriate or insulting about the questions.

Edit: No one *that I know of* insulted Danielle.

Bethany, from what I've heard, MK was insinuating that Danielle's boyfriend was only with her for the sex, etc. This is to say nothing of the insults that I, personally, have recieved, particularly at the hands of HisMan. "Tough questions" are one thing: openly expressing the opinion that someone will burn in hell forever is something completely different.

"Less, no one insulted Danielle."

No? What about HisMan's assumption of Danielle's uncle NOT marrying his girlfriend because he wanted to sneak out of their relationship?

What about me being called "heartless" because I support women's rights?
What about comparing abortion to Holocaust and thus insulting every single Jew on the planet? What about calling us childish, spoiled brats, uneducated, godless? What about not answering our questions - but quoting the bible to an atheist or, in my case, a deist? Or threaten us with hell, in which some of us don't believe? What about telling pro-choice Christians that they'll go to hell for their views? What about trying to convert the rest of us?

You really don't think that's insulting?

Bethany, from what I've heard, MK was insinuating that Danielle's boyfriend was only with her for the sex, etc. This is to say nothing of the insults that I, personally, have recieved, particularly at the hands of HisMan. "Tough questions" are one thing: openly expressing the opinion that someone will burn in hell forever is something completely different.

I don't think that anyone has ever said that you will burn in Hell, Less. Can you please post your source for this direct claim pointed towards you?

No one has ever implied that Danielle's boyfriend uses her only for sex. They asked her tough questions which I'll admit were tough, but after Danielle replied, no one bothered her about it anymore. It was an honest question, and it had a lot to do with the current discussion.

There's a lot of difference in asking hard questions, than a direct insult.

You see Hisman's posts as condeming you to Hell. I understand why you see it that way, but you have to learn to really, really pay attention to the wording of what he says, especially when he's talking directly to you.

Can you find one post, ONE, Less, where Hisman has directly said to you, Less, "you are going to Hell"?

Or has he, by preaching (which I admit he does), simply given you the impression that that is what he is trying to convey, based on your past experiences with certain people in your past?

Do you think it is possible that you have allowed your past experiences with people who hurt you, to shape the way you see ALL Christians who happen to teach similar things, because of the memories certain verses or wording of things brings back bitter things to your memory?

I honestly do not believe for a moment that Hisman wants you or anyone on this board to go to Hell. No one who is truly a Christian could desire such a thing. I can't imagine being glad at the thought of something like that. I believe that Hisman, despite the way it may appear to you, is trying to protect you (not that you WANT his protection), but just try to understand it from his point of view. That's probably where he is coming from...and regardless of whether you want him to help you or not, just try to respect the fact that he does actually care, and despite the way you perceive the wording of what he says to be offensive, he says it with a sincere heart, not out of hate. Okay? (hugs)

I love how you guys think we are sooo mean. They werent kind words from us but honestly we have gotten worse from you guys.
stop crying and deal with it

Ps.
I am tolerant of other's beliefs until they cross my rights. HisMan thinks his beliefs are the only right ones and we should all follow his beliefs.
Thats where my tolerance stops.

So? That's his opinion. Let him have it.

He's not forcing you to do anything.

whenever you ask him why abortion is bad he quotes the bible.
If his reason for outlawing abortion is only the bible and how the bible and jesus say you shouldnt kill then HIS ideology affects me, thats why I am not tolerant of it. If he came at me with SCIENTIFIC evidence I would listen.
He may think he is doing something nice for him but If i told him I believed in...I dont know, Satan, and that I would pray to satan for his soul, then he would tell me how horrible I was.
The thing is the street works both ways here. If HisMan was more accepting then I would be able to be more accepting of him

It seems your tolerance stops where HisMan's beliefs begin, Mars.
Are you just against HisMan because he is a Christian?

SH, No I have many christian friends. I am against people that think their religious views should have anything to do with the laws that govern our country, which HisMan does. THAT is what I dont like.
and it isnt just christianity. ANY person, no matter the religion, that tries to force its views on others is bad in my book

My religious views are against rape too.

"If you say you are pro-choice, I do not have to assume anything. I know by your statement that you are for the killing of unborn children in the womb."

HisMan, do you even know what the word choice means? You can be against abortion yourself (i.e. you wouldn't have one) but not against letting other people choose abortion. Read a damn dictionary sometime.

Nick Bush:

So Nick, you aren't for killing of babies in the womb after all? You'd give your life standing on that?

So wer ya fer aborshion befur ya wer agin' it?

Doublemindedness is a much more appropriate description of the opinion.

You can't be pro-choice which can lead to the death of an innocent baby in the womb and then say you are against the killing of the same baby. That's called doublemindedness.

That's the ticket "pro-doublemindedness".

I like chocolate almond ice cream, my wife likes pralines and cream, does that make us pro-choice or anti-vanilla? I like filet mignon and she likes swordfish. Does that make me pro-USDA-choice or anti-sea-food?

Nick, it is not I who needs to read a dictionary but you who needs to learn what a thesaurus is, give yourself some time to get over the amazement of the discovery, and then go learn how to use it, with integrity of course.

Hm, perhaps I should post some quotes of my own, since everyone else is throwing them around...

Momof3
Gloria, why didn't you take responsibility before you took a roll in the hay with a guy that cared nothing about you?
Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Jill:
�I'm quite sure that despite the fact s/he would enter the world of a completely self-absorbed mother, the "fetus" would prefer life to death.�
I�m completely self-absorbed, eh?
Exactly what "values" would allow you to abort your baby?
I have no values�
You know that statement was ridiculous and immature�
Ridiculous and immature�
No "very religious" and "very much personally pro-life" man would cordially agree for you to abort his baby, sorry�,
Assuming knowledge about my relationship and my fianc�

Less, You seem to be obsessed with sex�
Obsessed with sex..
You are sick.
That gem was directed towards pretty in pink. Really respectful debate, that.
Just because you're liberal and don't believe in sarcasm is your problem, not mine.
Attacking political beliefs�
Will you people GROW UP and quit staring at your navels� Your ignorance and self-centeredness is truly disgusting.
Wow, so much I could say about this one�.
Stephanie, you're quite simply ignorant and blind. I cannot believe the excuses you people continue to make for abortion. You disgust me right now.
Hmm�so poor Stephanie is ignorant, blind and disgusting. Poor girl.
I repeat, you're obsessed with sex. You worship the sex god.
Wow, and I�m obsessed with sex?
I believe in calling a spade a spade, so I have no problem with His Man doing so. As I said, I see things his way as far as pro-aborts are concerned.
Then again, she agrees with HisMan: so we might as well consider his insults hers as well, right?
I've told Less before she abandoned the God of the Bible solely for the god of sex.
Wow, three times now!

And how can we forget HisMan?
I feel sorry for you. You are destined to misery.
Delightful, hm?
No, kicking that doctor's ass would have been the manly thing to do.
And
Abortionist gynecologists....beware...you don't know where I live and what I may do if you just utter the word abortion....so, think twice and be afraid, very, very afraid. Or, just take Tae-Kwondo or something. No, I'd still kick your ass.
So, so, violent.
Something your parents apparently failed to teach you.
Insulting someone�s family�
Now, at risk of taking you seriously
I don't expect pro-aborts to ever be thorough in their thinking, so, you get a pass.
�You have chosen to be blind.�
�Perhaps you should move to Nevada where they allow immoral women to do whatever they want?�
��you would probably in your cowardly way, give lip service to accepting Islam�
��it appears your motives are less than altruistic. I feel sorry for you. You are destined to misery�
�it's amazing that a pro-deather can use the word assault in a sentence and type on a keybiord at the same time�
�you liberal baby-killer�
Quoted from a post of insults of HisMan�s. Nothing was done about these posts, of course.
SOMG: You are a liar and satan is your master and your aim is to deceive others. You have no interest in promoting truth... It simply isn't the manly thing to do.
Huh, what an odd definition of �manly� HisMan has.
You will reap destruction with the vulgar words you sow against Christ.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Pro-deathers have not found God yet
Hm.
Doesn't surprise me that your a confused, blown by the wind, pro-deather.

MK
Did everyone hear that? What a relief !!!!
God doesn't exist!!! Either does Satan !!!
How do I know ???? Because Lando said so !!!!
What virulent sarcasm�
Your soul might depend on your answer.
Again with the implication that pro-choicers will all go to hell.
I have a name for that, it�s simple minded.
Sigh�

Oh, and here�s a quote from Danielle!

I was really upset by the fact that about four different people kept on saying over and over again that my boyfriend was only with me for the sex and that if I told him I didn't want to have sex anymore that he would be gone in an instant.
Huh. Again with the judging of other people�s relationships.

And these quotes are specifically for Bethany:

Less, your desires are the practice of witchcraft and evidence of a Jezebel spirit within you. It is not surprising you are pro-death and extremely deceived. Repentance is the only answer. Or will you allow satan to kill, steal, and destroy your destiny?

Less, you are an EXTREMELEY dangerous person since what you say has the potential of leading so many to hell.

Both are from HisMan, and BOTH denigrate the way I live my life and condemn me for it. Frankly, I have no desire to hear anything that he spews. I am secure in my beliefs, and would be extraordinarily content if he would stop quoting Bible verses at me, as I do not and never will believe it to be the core of my being, If I do not want his protection, clear as it is to you, than why should he force it upon me? As he continuously forces his religion upon me, I do not and will not respect him. I do not care how sincere his heart is, he is the epitome of all that is hating, bigoted, intolerant, and generally wrong with Christianity.

Less,

One nasty thing at a time is forgivable, but last night was bullying. So many of you and only one of Him.

It's never okay when we get nasty, but occasionally we all do it. It's when so many from one side "gang up" on someone on the other side.

I honestly believe that I said that Danielles Aunt and Uncle had a more Catholic marriage sans the marriage than many people who are really married.

And I did not say that her boyfriend was only there for the sex. At one point or another everyone told her that they were glad someone was there for her.

Danielle can be a little sensitive sometimes. I even suggested she use the term "soft music" if we were getting too intense.

Any time anyone has pointed out an unkindness on my part, I have apologized.

Heck I even remember yelling at myself once.

Even you left last nite because you could tell it was going to get ugly.

As I said, it was late, everyone was tired, stuff happens, things get said...

Let it go. Just keep yourselves, (as we will try to keep ourselves) in check...

mk

MK, as I asked Bethany: did I ever insult HisMan's daughter? Prove it. You won't be able to find a thing, because I didn't do it. I really have no sympathy for HisMan: his daughter, however, is as yet an unknown part of the equation. For that reason I did not insult her. I will not, however, appologize for insulting HisMan.

Less,

When did I say that you did?
What am I missing?

help...
mk

last night was bullying. So many of you and only one of Him....

If that wasn't implying that I was in on the insults directed at HisMan's progeny, then nevermind. I do, however, stand by the fact that HisMan deserved all he got. If you spew hate, you're going to get it back threefold.

Hoo boy. Gonna have fun with this one.

Nick Bush:

So Nick, you aren't for killing of babies in the womb after all? You'd give your life standing on that?

So wer ya fer aborshion befur ya wer agin' it?

Doublemindedness is a much more appropriate description of the opinion.

From Dictionary.com:

4 results for: double-minded (two of which are for US towns with the word "Double" in them... weird o.0)

First definition: wavering or undecided in mind.

Second definition: Having different minds at different times; unsettled; undetermined.

So basically you're saying that I'm wavering on my opinion. Of what? Abortion? If I ended up getting a girl pregnant, it would depend wholly on the situation I and my partner were in as to what I would prefer. However, if she were to do the thing opposite of what I prefer, that's her choice. That's not doublemindedness, that's contextualization. You're kidding yourself if you think that I should have a one-size-fits-all opinion on something like abortion and try to apply it to every conceivable situation.

You can't be pro-choice which can lead to the death of an innocent baby in the womb and then say you are against the killing of the same baby. That's called doublemindedness.

That's the ticket "pro-doublemindedness".

When did I say I was both for and against killing a certain baby? All I said was that you can be against abortion yourself, but not against other people having the CHOICE whether or not to abort. Basically, you wouldn't do it yourself, but you have no problem with others who see it differently. That's part of the whole respecting others' beliefs thing. You realize that not everybody sees the world in the same way that you do, and you accept that. You don't try to force your opinion on abortion to others; hence the term pro-choice. If someone wants to abort their baby, I don't have a problem with it. If somebody wants to keep their baby, I don't have a problem with it. That's not doublemindedness, that's respecting others' opinions.

I like chocolate almond ice cream, my wife likes pralines and cream, does that make us pro-choice or anti-vanilla? I like filet mignon and she likes swordfish. Does that make me pro-USDA-choice or anti-sea-food?

No, it just means you have different food preferences. The difference between that and the pro-choice vs. "pro-life" debate is that (at least the most sensible) pro-choice people accept that others have choices and don't try to force their opinions on others. On the other hand, many pro-lifers (or, in your case anti-choicers, which is more accurate since you apparently seem to be against women having choices) try to make it so that everyone else accepts their view on being for or against abortion. In your little "example" you're both pro-choice, in terms of food preferences. (I'm an ice cream sandwich man myself... now I crave one, grr >.>)

Nick, it is not I who needs to read a dictionary but you who needs to learn what a thesaurus is, give yourself some time to get over the amazement of the discovery, and then go learn how to use it, with integrity of course.

I looked up the word "choice" on thesaurus.com and not once did I find the word "death" or "abortion" or anything like that there. Do you even know what point you were trying to drive across there, because I sure as hell don't.

I want you to tell me what the word "choice" means to you. Just a general definition of the word.

HisMan, I have to wonder if you are miserable. You seem to be.

Every time I think I'm out you just pull me back in... Grr...

Ilana: I don't really think being miserable has anything to do with it. I think HisMan just wants to make himself feel better than the "pro-death" people just because they believe differently than he does.

I've actually found, Ilana, that those with the most doubts are also the loudest praisers.

I also enjoy how he tells me assumption is the lowest form of knowledge, and he makes plenty of assumptions about us all. In fact, he told me last night that his daughter would be going to college next year where she would be faced with "the likes of [me]." Now, being that he knows nothing about me beyond the fact that my name is Ilana, that I am a female, and that my father who was once a religious leader has passed away, I'd like to know what he meant by "the likes of me," if he wasn't making an assumption about who I am.

"I'd like to know what he meant by "the likes of me," if he wasn't making an assumption about who I am."

I think he meant people who would expose her to different ideas, some of which may or may not make more sense than those she currently espouses.

Not to be mean or anything, but I think it would be hilarious if she ended up becoming more liberal in college and started thinking for herself instead of what she was apparently raised to believe.

Where did all the Lifers go?

I think they're trying to come up with their next attack on rationality.

Ohhh... They finally saw that there is no way to argue with us anymore... Nah... I'm not that optimistic...

No, they're scared of me guys, I'm EXTREMELY dangerous. Beware, I might lead you all into hell!

I personally think it's a good exercise, for me at least. Then again I'm still fairly new at it so I don't have enough experience to get sic of it yet >.>

lol... Well we are all horrible and intolerant remember... Cuz they are so saintly and are NEVER intolerant to ANYONE...

The lifers are probably all at midweek church.

-From a lifer who *isn't* there. *shifty eyes*

"The lifers are probably all at midweek church."

Har. I totally forgot about that >.>

Me too. We do small group on Thursday so I totally forgot about the whole "Wednesday=church" thing. The only thing that reminded me was the loud speaker at Mardel ushering me out of the store at 6:00.

Nick Bush and Ilana:

No assumptions made. I glean what you are from what you say.

Me miserable? Well no matter what I said you wouldn't believe me but here's my own little inside proof.

The people that know me, that I direct to this site and read what is being said, just laugh at you Ilana. They know me, my family, my life.

Because I stand against those who would kill an innocent child in the womb, you attack me, you diss my daughter, then you call me miserable.

Miserable, no, I'm one of the most blessed and thankful men on the planet, if for no other reason than for knowing Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

As I said before, it's hard for me to understand how anyone, man or woman, could say they are for woman, but would not lift a finger to help an innocent child in the womb, man or woman.

Ah iniquity, who can understand?

The people that know me, that I direct to this site and read what is being said, just laugh at you Ilana. They know me, my family, my life.

And I'm sure her friends laugh at you as well. It's the circle of life :)

Because I stand against those who would kill an innocent child in the womb, you attack me, you diss my daughter, then you call me miserable.

Miserable, no, I'm one of the most blessed and thankful men on the planet, if for no other reason than for knowing Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

As I said before, it's hard for me to understand how anyone, man or woman, could say they are for woman, but would not lift a finger to help an innocent child in the womb, man or woman.

Ah iniquity, who can understand?

Way to not address my points at all, buddy. Instead you go right to the whole "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT INNOCENT BABIES" routine. How's that superiority complex working out for you there, champ?

And I'm trying not to "attack" you, per se. I'm just trying to point out the holes in your argument, namely the "pro-death" and the "doublemindedness" ones to name a few. If I have personally attacked you or your daughter then I sincerely apologize.

Frankly Nick, I don't see any holes in his argument. I see plenty in yours.

Point them out for me, momof3. I'd be interested in seeing what holes you see in my argument.

HisMan, you attack me as well. You made assumptions. You don't even know if I'm pro-choice or pro-life. You don't know anything about me. So please, try to act like an adult and stop making lame and childish assumptions.

Hey,

Ilana,

Are you pro choice or pro life?

mk

The real question here is this: Pie or cake?

NIck,

Sounds to me like you are Pro-dessert.

No need to discuss which form.

You respect a persons right to choose "which" dessert. Or no desert.

But you sound pretty Pro-dessert to me.

Or is that what you mean by pro-choice?
People get to pick which dessert they want?

Now if you called yourself pro-choice on the abortion issue, it might not be so confusing.

I'll be happy to call myself anti-choice on the abortion issue. But not anti-choice. To open for interpretation.

So which are you? Pro-abortion, or Pro-choice when it comes to abortion?

mk

I was being facetious with the "pie or cake" question >.>

I consider myself pro-choice on the abortion issue, which I've said numerous times already in this thread.

Concerning all these hateful comments to HisMan.
One thing I have for the most part observed on this site is the exchange of ideas and opinions in intelligent debate, not name calling and personal insults. We aren't all going to agree with or like everything others say, and I'm certain many people do not always like what I have to say or agree with me, but this is never an excuse to conduct ourselves like children in a sandbox.
I've also noticed personal and friendly exchanges between posters of differing opinions, I've engaged in a few, and why shouldn't there be? There's never any excuse not to conduct ourselves like the mature adults we are.
People have the right to express any viewpoint and I greatly enjoy the exchange of ideas and opinions on this site. We have the right to agree or disagree. If you disagree, the best offense is always an intelligent argument, you may actually educate someone this way, not name calling and personal insults. We may just have to agree to disagree. Whatever, attacking a poster with such ferocity, and his daughter as well, is never justified.
Bethany makes an excellent point when she says that if HisMan's opinions bother you so, let it go. I'd never be off this computer if I went ballistic over every opinion I don't like or agree with. So what if these are his beliefs? This is America, he has the right to believe what he wants and to express any opinion he wants based on those beliefs.

Nick,

I was being facetious with the "pie or cake" question >/i>

I consider myself pro-choice on the abortion issue, which I've said numerous times already in this thread.

I understand that. My point was you want to be called pro choice, not pro abortion. I'm just saying clarify which choices we're talking about.

Are you Pro-abortion, or Pro-choice when it comes to abortion. Pro-choice doesn't cut it because it always begs the question "Pro-choice what?"

Bethany.

Don't even try this.

Yes, angry and hypocritical comments come from the pro-choice side. It comes from the pro-life side too. His Man wrote a very inflammatory and offensive article painting the pro-choice movement in an inaccurate, hateful, judgemental manner, and people wrote back what they thought about it. It's just too bad that things got out of control.

I have certainly not read every post from this page and the preceding one, so I apologize for bringing things way off topic, but I wanted to respond to some of HisMan's comments' regarding women and marriage and motherhood.

First of all, I am married and I am a Christian, and I want to be a mother more than anything else in the world (yes, more than I want a career). However, my husband and I are actively avoiding pregnancy right now for two reasons:

1. My husband is not ready for children yet. He is worried that he can't support children on his salary, so he wants me to get a full-time job first.

2. The more I look at the world around me, the more I think that it would be selfish of me to bring children into it. This world is full of pain and suffering. It is overpopulated and being destroyed by global warming. By being born, we are given the possibility of losing our souls to sin. In many ways, I think it would be better to not exist at all or to die before having the chance to sin, so that one can go straight to Heaven and be with God. But now I'm here, and I feel so selfish for wanting kids, because that means I am wishing to bring more people into this crazy messed up thing we call life.

As a result of #2, I am seriously considering adopting a child that is already here and in need of love, rather than forcing another child to enter this world.

Lily,

Sorry it took me a while to respond. My internet has been down for a few days and I have had some very serious personal and business challenges this past week. As usual, God delivers me from them all.

The Bible says children are a blessing from the Lord and ahppy is the man whose quiver is full of them.

God knows we need more children that are brought up by Christian parents.

My wife and I have five kids and everyone of them is a solid believer. I wouldn't trade them for anything and they are making a difference in the world.

Have faith, God gave you the desires of your heart, which appears to be children, so why should He withold any good thing from you?

Fear is the opposite of faith and worry is a prayer to yuorself. Global warming? Don't let all that liberal pooh scare you. It