By HisMan (one totally sold out to Jesus Christ):

Since abortion makes no sense to any rationally thinking person, there has to be other reasons for pro-aborts' "death grip" on this so-called "death right" .

It is no secret to me what abortion truly is and why I think it is used as a means to hold political power. I state it again as posted on previous threads as follows:
"You have to realize that pro-deathers are not driven by logic. They are driven by the lust for power, perhaps abortion followers without realizing it, but its leaders and initiators, guilty as hell.

They are no different than the poor man who fantasizes about taking the rich man's watch without regard to how or why the rich man acquired the watch; while poor materially, they lack no prejudice. They feel totally justified in their position, not because of logic but in some sinister form of perverted self-righteousness not thoroughly arrived at, at having simply arrived. Perhaps this itself feeds the power demon inside them, at just being able to arrive, at joining up: "I'm in the club now and no one will every kick me out, not even me".

They reject anyone or anything in authority that would tell them how to live including God Himself and it's generally masked in the facade of women's rights. Which when you analyze it, is a very parasitical way of thinking. I mean, they kill unborn baby woman too don't they? How dare they use the issue of abortion to bolster their sense of self-hood. Again, the perverted, twisted and demented logic shows its ugly head from every angle of the looking glass. Ah, but they see in a mirror darkly? No, the light's off.

So, when they acknowledge the horror of a baby cooking video, or talk about how bad kicking a dead baby in a bag is, or allowing a baby to die in a toilet in an abortion deathatorium despite the pleas of the mother for the baby's life, they really are acknowledging the horror of abortion since to not do so would be illogical. What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know who he is?

So, I ask myself, if we disparage ourselves of the silliness and really take a deep look, what is abortion? Here's what I, HisMan, think it is:

Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator.

Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, to show forth His glory, it negates God as redeemer.

Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy.

Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it's earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it's earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive.

Abortion's desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness, decay, death.

Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it's solution; annihilation, it's goal; death, it's dream; breaking God's heart, it's vision, satan's ultimate power. Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of satan are everywhere to be found in its performance.

Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom.

Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God.

Yes, Abortion is satan's feeble attempt at killing God himself, for Abortion is a metaphor for satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him......for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception."

As so truthfully stated by By Jennifer Roback Morse in her article, even women suffragists are beginning to see the light:

www.townhall.com/Columnists/JenniferRobackMorse
/2007/04/16/the_new_underground_womens_movement

"Abortion advocates never admit that women in crisis face an extremely lopsided "choice." A woman can end her pregnancy at any time. The abortion clinic provides her with an immediate solution to her "problem." She can walk in pregnant, and walk out not pregnant. Abortion counselors, assuming there are any, have no particular incentive to provide for her longer term needs, or to get to know her and her problems.

By contrast, the decision to carry a child to term has to be renewed on a daily basis. Throughout the pregnancy, the mother may have moments of fear or fatigue or indecision. Her boyfriend or her mother may be working on her to abort. If her conviction wavers, for even a single afternoon, she can get an abortion. Her child will be gone forever.

That is why workers in a crisis pregnancy center must have a whole different level of commitment than those in an abortion clinic. Pro-life counselors know perfectly well the client has a "choice," other than returning to their center, so they have to make their services appealing. Pro-life counselors get to know the woman, her life, her problems, sometimes even her boyfriend or her mother. They help clients with housing, medical care, jobs, transportation and child care. The Real Alternatives program in Pennsylvania for instance, has a mandate to assist the woman for a year after her baby is born.

The modern feminist movement is a Marxist knock-off, committed to transforming class warfare into gender warfare. Under the guise of equalizing income for men and women, the feminist movement made in-roads into the power structures of America, inroads that would have been impossible any other way. Since babies account for so much of the gender difference in earnings, Girl Marxists need to neutralize the impact of babies: hence their commitment to all abortions, all the time.

Don't be fooled by the rhetoric of the Feminist Establishment. You'll never hear this from the Main Stream Media, but pro-life women are the real champions of the most vulnerable women's interests. The Pro-life Movement is the New Women's Movement."

Rudy Guiliani, are you listening?

http://www.lifenews.com/nat3038.html

Oh, beautiful, HisMan: a blog entirely without any legitimate sources, completely from a religious perspective.

There's only one Source that counts for me.

Do you know of "others"?

Others that are maybe, you know, provable? A myriad, but something tells me that you wouldn't look at them.

As for this quote:
The struggle is between women who want their babies, and women who want something else more. The conflict is between women who value marriage, and Marxists who see marriage as another manifestation of class warfare.

I'm curious: are you insinuating that all a woman should want is a marriage and babies?

His Man, at this point in my life, I DO want a career more than I want a baby. Does that make me SINFUL? The quote highlighted above by Less seems to suggest that you do.

Go ahead men, get your careers. Oh, silly women, of course you don't want careers. Your potential is limited to being childbearers and mothers only. Of course we men know what's best for you. So stay in the kitchen.

Why should I value marriage above a career I work DAMN hard for? Are you saying that my goals come secondary to that of a man's because I should first and foremost want to be a mother? (Keep in mind, mothers ARE wonderful people and are probably the hardest workers EVER, and I would never degrade a woman for choosing to be a stay-at-home mom. My problem is when CERTAIN groups indoctrinate women to believe that their only value comes through being baby factories.)

Less,

I could care less if you get married or have children.

No I'm saying for a pro-deather, marriage and babies are not the issue.

The issue is about power and the question, who's gonna hold sway in my life; God, the church, my marriage, my spouse, me?

The pro-death stance is no-one tells me what to do even if it causes the death of an innocent child in the womb.

If God were in control of one's life, there would be no thought of ever aborting an innocent child in the womb.

Obvioulsy, pro-deathers are controlled by self and self-alone.

Hm, so you believe I shouldn't have control of myself, that I should simply allow everyone and everything else to control me?

This was a very well written post, Hisman. Love the Guilani bit at the end! haha
I am glad to see you back .. hope you had a good trip! :)

Alyssa,

Ludicrous.

My wife is mother to five children (and I would say an astounding success at the most difficult, challenging, and rewarding jobs on the planet).

She has been a successful research coordinator at the Mayo Clinic. Left that to design our new house.

The difference is, she did it all, and I mean all, on God's timetable not her own, and she is one of the happiesnt people on the face of the earth.

Most pro-choicers are used to believing lies.

Read Proverbs 31 please.

His Man, if you say it's about power, then explain the highlighted quote from above. What exactly did you mean by it? Because I'm only gleaning one meaning.

I DO want something more than a baby. It's called a comfortable life and a career...and then, after that, when I can provide, maybe a baby. Not first. Never first. I have the best priorities for me. Not what you think the Bible says should be my priorities.

How do you know that this ISN'T God's timetable for me? Oh, that's right...God wants babies first, my desires later.

Less,

I believe the life God planned for you before you were born is beyond your wildest dreams.

I know you will never get there believing the lies of pro-aborts and man-hater feminists.

And I don't think anyone should give control of themselves over to anyone who doens't love them unconditinally.

God loves us without restraint and He can be totally trusted. So, when He teaches me in His Word to choose life, I take that literally. Might not be the easiast and simplest choice of the moment, but if He can be trusted, I can trust the outcome. That's why abortion is never the answer, ever.

His Man,

God may love us but he isn't always "nice," either.

Alyssa -- I am totally with you. I'm a Christian, and the way I see it is that if my husband and I were to have a baby right now, that would be great in God's eyes. Or, if as planned, I delay children until later that would be great in God's eyes too. I think there are an infinite number of life paths that I could take, and a lot of times one is NOT better than the other. As long as I follow the Ten Commandments, etc., and try to serve God in wherever life takes me then I think God will be pleased. God wouldn't have minded if I had chosen a different major, a different school, moved to a different city, etc. That's my take on it! There is a huge range of possibilities that fall into God's will and it's ridiculous to assume that our personal choices don't affect our life plans.

Alyssa,

If you don't want babies first, great.

But don't have sex until and when you are ready to accept the responsibility of having a baby.

If you are not mature enough to see that, then you are probably not mature enough to understand sex.

You are only looking at the superficial aspect of the act. The fact is that sex leads to pregnancy.
Not only does it, but it is meant to lead to pregnancy.

And all the magic pills, and copper coils, and protective balloons, and abortionists in the world cannot change that simple reality.

Pregnancy is a natural consequence of having sexual relations.

That's it. It's so simple.

But when you stamp your feet and say nobody is going to tell ME what to do, the natural consequence, unfortunately, is that babies die.

That's it. It's so simple.

It's so fundamentally human. It is what separates us from animals. It is what makes us special. The fact that we accept responsibility for our actions. The fact that we have sympathy and empathy. The fact that we don't just take and take and take.

This is one of those nights when the way you girls, so beautiful, so young and so full of promise, talk that I just want to cry...

You must feel so empty inside. Always trying to fill yourself up with whatever feels good right away. Never willing to wait for the stuff that lasts.

Hollow. Sad. So very sad...
mk

Alyssa,

Since abortion is never the right thing to do, just as murdering someone would never be the right thing to do, the right to murder a baby in the womb can never be the fundamental argument for women's rights.

A women's "right to choose" is simply saying it is more important for a woman to be able to murder (an unborn child) than it is for that right to be forsaken. No such right exists and therefore it is a false right, it doens't exist. It's a fake, a straw man, a facade, a phantom....and a whole movement is built around it.

How can a movement that bases itself on being able to kill the very people it purports to champion survive? The very premise is totally illogical.

It's doomed to failure and women are beginning to realize it.

I don’t hate men: I quite love my fiancé, in fact.

And as I love myself unconditionally, I’m quite content with giving me control of myself. I can totally trust myself to do what is good for me, even if it isn’t always fun and wonderful, and I can trust the outcome. If I chose abortion, I trust that that is the answer for me, because I trust myself. If God really wants me to have a kid, he'd better give me a change of heart, or else I'm going to be having wild sex with my husband....without reproducing.

I'm not telling anyone on this blog that they ought to become mothers. Not everyone is cut out to be a mother. As a matter of fact,it might be for the best that some women didn't. However,that doesn't give any of us the right to take a human life. Abortion is the destruction of a human life! Once that life is in the womb of the woman, nobody should ever tamper with it!

MK,

Again, even if I was to abstain until marriage, who's to tell me I'm wrong to want to remain childless for a few years to enjoy married life with my husband, and THEN have children? NFP cannot work for me, and I looked into that Naprotechnology thing. NO explanations for how to deal with debilitating dysmenorrhea. I don't want to put my faith in something that hasn't even been put into the mainstream yet...something that has been proven to work with a pretty good failsafe rate (yes, I know, abstinence is the only 100% safe thing...), is many forms of birth control. BC is better than nothing. And while you may decry that the 3rd "theoretical" but not PROVEN function of birth control is "killing a baby", I cannot equate a ball of 50 undifferentiated cells to that of a crying infant.

In that regards, if you had time to save one crying child OR a petri dish full of 50 embryos, which would you save? I have no doubts in my mind which one I would go for.

Sorry guys, had to step away for a second.

Hi Pretty In Pink:

What do you mena God isn't nice?

Did He ever hurt you?

Sure it wasn't someone else?

I mean, when my parents died when I was younger I was real mad at God until I understood the big picture.

Sometimes, I don't like it when I get sick and other bad things happen or things don;t go my way. I know that someday, all will be made well.

For me, God is really nice, just sometimes we don't always know what His plans for us are. That's why trusting Him makes life so much easier instead of alway fighting Him.

Its people like hisman that have made me lose my faith and why I think organized religion is crap. I wish someone like Hisman could back his theories up with other evidence other than "the bible" I have his question for you, you state "I believe the life God planned for you before you were born is beyond your wildest dreams." if "god knows everything" wouldn't he know that this person was going to get an abortion later in their life? Also why do people who commit sucide "go to hell" if god has a plan for you, wouldn't he plan for you to die this way. You're argument would be "freewill" God lets you choose, so does god know or not know what i'm going to do? Mmm...

So if a family, a man and a women, is very poor and can not afford a baby ever... does that mean they can never have sex... and if they do what did you say MK "If you are not mature enough to see that, then you are probably not mature enough to understand sex."

Most people reading this blog have to wonder if you are the most qualified person to judge what is rational and what is not, HisMan/

"Since abortion is never the right thing to do..."

See, I find that even the majority of the pro-life movement disagrees with you on that "never" bit. Most agree that if a woman's life is in danger, abortion is perfectly acceptable.

Ilana you silly head... if someone thinks abortion is right in any instance it makes you a "death killer"

"What do you mena God isn't nice?

Did He ever hurt you?"

I've had my share. Just like everyone else, I suppose. But God is not nice. Look at the world. If you tell us to just trust God for everything, then the world's ills are from God. They may be for a reason but it isn't a nice thing to do. For example, God may have his reasons for Katrina, doesn't mean He was nice. Right?

Hisman... I am a Christian, studying to hopefully become a Youth Minister someday... I am also pro-choice... And I don't think that Being a Christian and being pro-CHOICE have to be mutually exclusive... I know you disagree with me and that's fine... You have the right to... But I don't think calling people inflammatory names and ASSUMING you know why everyone thinks the way they do, is ok in God's sight either...

It is people like HisMan that turn me off Christianity for good. I hope you're proud of yourself for that.

Mr. Giuliani would like me to tell His Man to kindly consider adopting a new hobby. There are much more important issues to talk about.

Please Ilana... Don't judge us all by the hatred he spews

I wonder if His Man has any arguments for those of us who do not believe in God.

Its people like emily and make me realize perhaps i shouldn't lose faith in religion.

Of course not, Emily. I just wish there weren't people who are so hateful and disgusting (like you, HisMan) that it makes me turn away from Christianity.

I've just lost all respect for Rudy.

:-) Thank you Jana... I try to show everyone a positive and loving side to Christianity... I know God would rather I win people to him with love, not hatred...

I'm sorry emily but i agree with Ilana... People like hisman have made me turn away from God.

Rudy doesn't miss it at all, Momof3.

Trust me when I say I can understand why... You have no idea how much it sickens me and makes me ashamed that he "represents" my religion... It's horrible

If you guys on the pro-choice side don't believe in the Bible, then what do you base anything on? I am not trying to be "funny". I really would like to know.

I DO believe in the bible...

Momof3, I personally base my opinions on facts that can be proven.

Hence the reason I myself would not get an abortion... But I realize I have NO RIGHT to decide that for anyone else lawfully

Jana,

Yes God did know that a person would get an abortion later in life, however, this was not His plan. I never said people that commit suicide go to hell. God's plan is perfect and flawless in every way; it's a person's choice that corrupts His perfect plan.

Free will? God lays out the choices, we make the choice. He wants us to choose life and not death.

Yes God knows what you're going to do and the outcome. But you don't kow the outcome. That's what takes faith, believing that His plan will work for good for those that love Him and are called according to His purposes.

Yay for Emily! Christians like you make me happy. ^^

:-D Thank you Less... I try! lol

How do you get around the thou shalt not kill part?

I personally don't kill... I think the decision of abortion is up to every woman and between her and any God she believes in... It's not my business... And I don't feel anyone should be denied the choice because of beliefs I have that not everyone shares...

I look around me, I see the way I would like to be treated and try to treat everyone and everything around me the same way. I find that I and my friends who believe this way are kinder, more caring, more humanistically inclined, and way more compassionate than those of my friends and acquaintances who "follow the Bible."

Emily:

Emily, I honestly don't understand your belief.

Please tell me what you believe about abortion.

"Momof3, I personally base my opinions on facts that can be proven."

ditto

Hisman- I applogize i just assumed you'd think that suicide sends you to hell... thats what other christians have claimed.. (friends of mine).
You also are contradicting yourself. If God knows what choice we will choose how can he "get mad"

Jesus actually did say in the New Testament to treat others as you would like to be treated... It makes me sad that alot of Christians don't follow this advice...

It says "Thou shalt not murder."

And being that murder is a very specific thing, and abortion doesn't fall under that very specific definition, sorry, abortion is perfectly fine.

I believe abortion is a horrible thing... I wish it were not practiced as much as it is... But I think the way to get rid of abortion is NOT by outlawing it, but by educating young people about the risks of sex and ways to protect themselves... Abstinence is the BEST way... But it has been PROVEN that abstinence ONLY education ISN'T working... And until we eliminate the NEED for abortion, it won't go away

Abortion is murder. What did an unborn child ever do to deserve having his limbs ripped off or his skull punctured?

If abortion is murder, you are a cranberry.

Jana, if you turned away from God based on what a person, or a group of people did, then you never were close to God in the first place, and you just use this person/people as an excuse to stay away from God.

You can't turn away from someone you never knew. You can find more reasons or excuses to stay away, but you can't "turn" away.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Emily,

Looking back, I wouldn't have wanted to be aborted, would you have? So how does Jesus' admonition to treat others as yourself apply here?

What about "the least of these" Jesus talks about?

I want to know what you believe.

I was christian, went to church on sundays and all that and then my boyfriend died.
Now I cannot believe that God would let someone like him die. I cannot believe that there is a god
David was a wonderful person and his heart stopped while he was playing soccer with some friends. He had had heart problems as a baby but there was nothing wrong with him anymore.

If I had been aborted, I wouldn't have an opinion on abortion either way... I do KNOW I wouldn't have wanted my mother to have been FORCED to carry me against her will

It sounds to me like you guys make up your own rules.

"Abortion is murder."

Not as we speak. Murder is a legal construct used to define a killing that is outlawed by a society or system of jurisprudence. Killing itself is not murder. There is no such natural concept. The idea of "murder" is man-made.

Momof3: "Abortion is murder.What did an unborn child ever do to deserve having his limbs ripped off or his skull punctured?"

Abortion is not legally considered murder because it is not killing a PERSON. A zygote/embryo/fetus is ALIVE and HUMAN along with sperm cells, skin cells and eggs. However it does not have the rights of a person.

HisMan, when you say you wouldn't want to be aborted...well you wouldnt know either way if you were.
My mom was 18 when she got pregnant with me. She considered abortion, but she decided that my father and both their families would provide the support she needed. I am thankful she had the choice. I know now that I am the baby she WANTED to have, not just the baby she had to have because she had no other choice.

My new screen name.

Bethany-
How dare you tell me that I was never close to God? How dare you? You know nothing about me and frankly I find your comment very rude. It wasn't just people that have made me lose faith in God, there are other factors as well. I went to college and become educated and started to have new beliefs.. then people like hisman told me my beliefs were wrong and against "Christianity" I was going to hell.

Kim and Lando,with all due respect....BullS---!

Actually, it sounds to me like YOU made up YOUR own rules. The laws I follow because of the country I live in tell me that murder is the malicious, illegal, and premediated killing of a person. You don't like the rules? Go somewhere else.

Jana... I'm sorry about that and those people were HORRIBLE to say such things to you, or to assume they had the right to judge you...

I think it's terrible that some of my fellow Christians don't realize that we CANNOT force our beliefs and morals on others... MORALITY CANNOT BE LEGISLATED!!!

Jana, you get used to all the rudeness. I, personally, have been told that I worship a God of sex, am disgusting and ignorant, and am going to hell and dragging everyone with me. So. :P

Why do we lock people up for murder? Those are the rules.

"Kim and Lando,with all due respect....BullS---!"

Killing and death are part of this existence and the cycle of life itself. Human societies have decided what kinds of killing are acceptable, based on their environment and the resulting worldview

As of now, our society does not hold abortion to be an unlawful form of killing. Therefore, the legal construct of murder does not apply here. I simply believe it should stay that way.

If you have an opposing view as to why you think abortion should constitute murder, please relate it. Replying with only a summary swear does not help anyone.

I am a christian. I love God with all my heart and desire nothing more than to please him.

I am pro-choice! Gods greatest gift to humanity was the gift of choice and God is always with me. I feel as if I am living a life which pleases him. For you to insinuate that your truth is the absolute truth is disgusting. God doesnt teach the kind of judgement you preach, he teaches love.

Yes... And legally abortion does not qualify as murder...

"Kim and Lando,with all due respect...BullS---!"

Very Well, give us some info that contradicts us.
*crosses fingers* (Please not abortionno.com, please not abortionno.com)

How about some love for unborn children? Where is that love?

ErinJane... I just want to say... Thank God for sending you here to help me be the voice for rational Christians :-D

Yeah. We lock people up for MURDER, the illegal, malicious, and premediated killing of another person.

Legally no,morally yes!!!Don't keep lying to yourselves. The word legal does not make it okay!

"How about some love for unborn children? Where is that love?"

It's not going anywhere. But you cannot force someone to love. It must be given voluntary. That is why pregnancy and childbirth are such amazing acts. The mother chooses to sacrifice herself for her children. Forcing them to gestate only perverts and nullifies any form of "love."

Yes but we CANNOT FORCE our morality on people who DO NOT SHARE our beliefs... We just cannot...

Mars,

I am sorry for your loss. It must hurt terribly.

What made David's death turn you away from God? Seems to me that God would be the only One that could provide any comfort in this situation.

I'm only human and there's nothing that I can do or say to make the hurt go away except to say I know there is a way out.

From my pain experiences, if you don't deal with an issue, the hole in your heart only grows deeper. The solution is only found in God's love. You already have total access to His love, you don't have to do anything to get it, it's a done deal.

Abortion IS very premeditated.

"The word legal does not make it okay!"

Maybe. But that is for each individual and her God/personal philosophy to decide.

Don't keep lying to yourself that your morality is everyone's morality. I think what you're trying to do is completely immoral: force your morals onto everyone around you. But do I stop you from doing it? No.

Exactly... I would much rather my mother carry me out of love than because she was FORCED to

I think it's terrible that some of my fellow Christians don't realize that we CANNOT force our beliefs and morals on others... MORALITY CANNOT BE LEGISLATED!!!

"Have you ever heard the claim that "morality can't be legislated"? I have heard it too many times, and it has often been said by religious people. I'm afraid the majority of people in this country have bought into this lie, which has been propagated by the liberal left.

Those who argue in favor of abortion often insist that morality should not be legislated. They say that the pro-life movement should not force their morals on society. In fact, the Supreme Court seems to have bought into the lie. In Planned Parenthood v. Casey, the Supreme Court said,

Some of us as individuals find abortion offensive to our most basic principles of morality, but that cannot control our decision. Our obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code...at the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.

But to say that morality cannot be legislated is to betray an ignorance of what laws really are. All laws declare one behavior right and one behavior wrong, which is the very definition of morality. When people say morality cannot be legislated, they should be saying that legislation cannot change hearts. While this is true, changing hearts is not the purpose of laws. Regardless of one's personal convictions, laws encourage a certain behavior by citizens. Legislation cannot be divorced from morality. All laws mandate morality. The question is not then can we legislate morality, but whose morality do we legislate?1

The Supreme Court claimed that they were not legislating morality in their decision. By making abortion legal (overstepping its authority, I might add), however, the Supreme Court declared that abortion was right. This is a moral statement, a legislation of morality. Some misguided individuals will argue that legalizing abortion is the government's way of remaining neutral on the issue--they aren't forcing anyone to have an abortion, nor saying that it is a good thing; they're just giving women the option. The same argument is used for prostitution and the use of narcotics. Legalization of an activity, however, is an endorsement of that activity. If it were not, why do we need laws in the first place? Why doesn't the government remain neutral on the issue of rape? The government doesn't have to force men to rape women or say that rape is a good thing, but shouldn't they give men that option? Do I hear some pro-choicers out there saying that rape is wrong, and it should be illegal? Who are you to force your morals on society? Morality shouldn't be legislated!"

Read the rest here

Yes, honey, abortion is premediated. Is it malicious? No. Is it illegal? No. Until abortion is illegal, malicious, and premediated, it still is not murder. Sorry.

Emily,

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

"Abortion IS very premeditated."

But is it unlawful...no.

Is it malicious...Definitely not. Compare the motives and attitudes of a pre-abortion woman with any would-be murderer. There are no similarities there.

You CAN control your desision when it comes to abortion... DON'T GET ONE

Tsk tsk, Bethany, using editorials as sources again?

"Abortion IS very premeditated."
But is it unlawful...no.

Neither was slavery back in it's day, but that fact didn't take the wrong away.

I DO know the truth... And it HAS set me free... But I can't force others to believe in God... All I can do is tell them what I believe and live as a good example for them so that they can see how God effects my life...

Slaves were also born citizens, which means they were protected under the constitution... Constitutional protection requires a person be BORN OR NATURALIZED... A fetus is neither

"By making abortion legal (overstepping its authority, I might add)"

You can certainly have your opinion...

"the Supreme Court declared that abortion was right."

No they did not. They held to be legally permissible. Whether it is "right" or not is up to each individual. The government is not neutral, it is holding up the rights of its citizens to control their reproductive destiny, and through that, their bodies and lives.

HisMan:
What about david's death made me turn away from god? Because no loving god would let such a terrible thing happen to a good person, to his mother who has no one else, and to his friends.
You know what comforted me during this time? My friends. They were amazing. And counseling. It has done wonderful things for me.
Before david died I was already starting to think that there was probably no God, that compounded those beliefs

"Neither was slavery back in it's day, but that fact didn't take the wrong away."

I was about to argue that forcing a woman to donate her body to a fetus is a form of slavery, as per the 13th and 14th Amendments...interesting.

Abortion is premeditated murder.It is violent to the unborn child.It is wrong.Who is your God that says killing is okay?

Mars- I am so sorry about David. I can not even comprehend what I would feel if my boyfriend, the man i want to marry, were to die...

IT IS NOT MURDER... MURDER is Illegal... Abortion is legal... Therefore, legally, abortion is NOT murder...

Back to my original screen name

"Abortion is premeditated murder.It is violent to the unborn child."

We have already analyzed the definition of murder as a legal construct in which abortion does not fit. You are free to have your own opinion on the issue. You are not forced to have an abortion, or even like the concept.

If all violent killings were outlawed, we would not have a military.

Honey, you're still missing the other two parts: illegal and malicious. If it's premediated, legal, and not malicious, it isn't murder. Sorry you don't like the definitions of words. That's very sad for you.

And my God who allows killing is the same as your God. Last I checked, even Christians killed in the name of God.

Mars... I am SO sorry to hear about your boyfriend... I'm glad you had great friends around you to help you... That is a horrible thing for anyone to have to deal with... I went through a similar crisis of faith (where I lost my belief in God) after my brother and grandfather died... I sympathize... I hope your friends continue to support you!

Emily,This is how I CHOOSE to word it.CHOICE,remember? Abortion is murder.I'm sorry if this offends you.You'll get over it.

Emily,

Please don't forget that Jesus says that we are the light of the world.

Who then, if not believers, would counter the darkness?

You would never have us say anything that would counter popular opinion, why? Because we might offend someone?

The Gospel or "Good News" is inherently offensive, Emily, becasue it tells people they are lost, they need a Savior, it is Christ, and to not beleive the message means etermal separation from God.

Did they crucify that nice guy Jesus you know or the One talked about in the Bible.

Sorry Emily, abortion is always wrong for it counters God's intent.

But it's NOT murder if you follow the definition of the word... I'm a former English major and people butchering the English language does offend me, yes...

"This is how I CHOOSE to word it.CHOICE,remember? Abortion is murder."

That's fine. Just know that it is not legally correct, which renders your view to a personal one. You are certainly entitled to it.

If I may be so bold, I would reword your statement to "I think abortion should be considered murder."

Well then, momof3, you're CHOOSING to be ignorant.

PS If abortion is not murder than what is it?

You can call it whatever you want. But the fact of the matter is, if you're speaking in English, you have to use the English language within its parameters: definitions, grammar, syntax, and so on. If you attempt to use one word to define something that it doesn't define, you're not operating within the parameters of the English language, and no one takes you seriously. Rather, they think you're silly and amusing for your mis-speak.

Slaves were also born citizens, which means they were protected under the constitution... Constitutional protection requires a person be BORN OR NATURALIZED... A fetus is neither

so? They weren't "persons" by definiton of the law. They had no legal rights.

It's evicting a biological freeloader which infringes on the woman's womb. You can't deny that any part of that statement is true.

"Sorry Emily, abortion is always wrong for it counters God's intent."

There are a lot of directions I can go with this...but who knows God's intent? And why should that translate into the law of a secular nation?

I never ONCE said that I wouldn't go against popular opinion... I do in a great many things... I just don't think it is right to take that choice away from women... I don't think ANYONE should get abortions and you will NEVER hear me advocate it... All I advocate is not pushing my morals on others and allowing choice... I spread the Good Word to everyone I know... My boyfriend HATES listening to me badger him about going to Church... Don't you DARE question my faith

It's abortion... That's what it is... It's the expulsion of a fetus from an unwilling womb... I'd even allow the killing of a fetus... But NOT murder

Killing. Just like when you scratch your arm and kill a few skin cells, just like when someone kills a cow to make it into hamburger and shoes. Killing. Not all killing is murder.

Ilana,I am calling it both what I want as well as what it is.MURDER.Blood/death=murder.

"They weren't "persons" by definiton of the law. "

Actually, they were.

In "An Inquiry Into the Law of Negro Slavery" (1858), Thomas R.R. Cobb states that "We recognize in the Negro a man, endowed with reason, will, and accountability..."

Indeed, nearly every state slave code contained provisions for providing for the basic rights and well-being of slaves.

That was the fatal paradox of slaver, really. No one could ever reconcile keeping a living, independent person in bondage to another.

I was seriously going to try and avoid this blog from now on, since all it does is incense me and whittle away at my faith in the rational capacity our species and the value of our society, but I couldn't help myself. So, I might as well put my 2 cents in.

HisMan, you've written a nice long post, and your use of rhetoric is absolutely amazing. But there is not one argument in your entire post! You've given us nothing more than a list of unsubstatiated claims. (Well, I suppose we could consider the numerous ad hominem attacks arguments, but they're fallacious, so why bother?). Have you ever considered being a sophist? I think you've got a natural talent for it.

I'm not sure I understand this whole idea that the pro-choice movement is all about power. Unless by 'power' you mean 'rights'. Do I have a right to my beliefs and a right to express them? Yes. Do I have a right to practice the religion of my choosing (or, in my case, no religion)? Yes. Do I have a right to live my life as I see fit as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others? Yes. Do I have a right of autonomy over my own body? Yes. How is it that the first two of these are about rights and the last two are, according to you, about power? Or are you going to say that those who support free speech and free exercise of religion are horrible power freaks? If that's the case, I really hope, for the sake of your own consistency, that you're not one of those crazy people who thinks that you have a right over your own property. Abhorrent power mongerers who think they can set use privileges on what they own... sheesh.

Haha, then every period you have is murder... Blood and death of an unfertilized egg. Ridiculous. Try again, Momof3.

"... abortion is always wrong..."

Once again, HisMan, the majority of the pro-life movement disagrees with you. They find abortion to be berfectly acceptable if the woman's life is in immediate danger from the pregnancy, or if the fetus is entirely incompatible with life due to a chromosomal abnormality.

"Blood/death=murder."

A lioness killing an antelope for food is committing murder?

By calling in air support to help out the Army grunts in my convoy when they come under attack, am I an accomplice in murder?

so if blood/killing=murder... Then if a man attacks me on the street at night and I defend myself, is that murder?

Ilana: there are three reasons for war, money, power and RELIGION....

I think that's sad... I will DIE for my religion... But I would NEVER kill for it...

Lol, so when you menstruate, you're committing murder? You must hate yourself!

Don't like my explaination? This is how I feel about you guys when you start that body autonomy,feti zygote,personhood arguement.STUPID CRAP!! It's so dumb!

Well we kinda feel the same way about you so...

Menstruation is not pregnancy.The lining of the uterus sheds when the egg is not fertilized.

momof3...
the truth can hurt sometimes.

Except I'd never say you were dumb or that your reasons for believing what you do are dumb... I think you are 100% entitled to your opinion... No matter how much it would hurt women across the country...

I have to wonder why you're so angry, Momof3. Is it because you're questioning what you're saying and finding yourself lacking? Is it because you can't believe someone would disagree with you and are astounded that we're not automatically falling to our knees and dismissing our previous beliefs at your insistence that abortion is murder? Anger is weakness.

Not it sheds it's lining when there is no IMPLANTATION... Doesn't mean a fertilization didn't happen... MANY periods are fertilized eggs being expelled because they failed to implant...

"Don't like my explaination? This is how I feel about you guys when you start that body autonomy,feti zygote,personhood arguement.STUPID CRAP!! It's so dumb!"

*eyebrow raise*

If I were in a courtroom, this is the moment I say, "Your honor, we rest our case."

That's fine.Please spare me that dumb crap argument you all use. Thanks.

"dumb crap argument "

I am interested to know why you consider it as such.

*lol* Landon... I know I said it on Facebook... But I wanna say it here too for the record... I love you!

Well then it's God's will.I didn't run to the ab clinic to kill anyone.

You said it yourself, Momof3. Murder is blood and death. Well, menstruation is blood and death. So, by your own definition, menstruation is murder.

*lol* Oh lord... Talk about dumb crap...

Lando the Loser is a better name for you.

I HAD respect for momof3... That has now gone out the window... *shakes head*

Don't go there girls.Now you both sound childish.

Fine. We won't talk about bodily integrity, that "dumb crap argument" we all use, if you don't use your dumb crap argument that abortion is murder, because that is pure dumb crap.

Isn't it sad, Emily? It happens pretty quickly.

This coming from the woman who just called someone a "loser"... Riiiiight..

Emily,I don't ever remember even talking to you before.

MOM: please spare us the dumb crap god argument you use then...

"Lando the Loser is a better name for you."

Perhaps, but name calling gets you know where, and serves only to damage your credibility when talking about our "dumb arguments."

My screen name is irrelevant.

The only one who is childish is the one who refuses to accept definitions, the one who gets angry at an argument she dislikes, and the one who tells her opponents that their morals aren't good enough.

Wait... I think that just described you.

Lando the Loser is a better name for you.

that was kinda rude

*shakes head* I just... Want one person worth of respect here (pro-life)... It's hard to argue for our side when everyone on the other side is... for lack of better terms... completely incompetent...

Wait, did she REALLY say WE'RE childish, then call Lando a loser? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Oh my goodness, Momof3, do you TRY to be this funny?

And I just committed a mortal grammatical sin there.

I've read posts here before... This is only the second time I've gotten involved in a discussion

Oh,like I would lose sleep over people that defend baby killing and baby killers. You guys are a screen. I don't even know any of you on a personal level. I think a lot of you here are fakes!

Yes Ilana, she did... I mean... But of course, WE are the childish ones...

Emily, I'm with you. I have to wonder how the leaders of the pro-life movement are okay with their followers being completely incompetent.

I wouldn't mind getting to know anyone on here on a personal level... I love to make new friends and I have no problem having friends that disagree with me about things...

And i'm sure many of "us" think many of "you" are fakes? so whats your point?

"I think a lot of you here are fakes!"

In what way?

*Pinches self*

I'm pretty sure I am me.

I know... They don't eve know basic medical & legal FACTS... It's just mind-numbing...

Well,I am calm as can be.I was looking back on the posts.Funny.You guys are all worked up.Never heard of most of you.

Fakes of what? Momof3, it's very sad that now you're resorting to personal attacks when you know your other arguments are failing. I feel very badly for you.

It is funny how momof3 is incredibly childish with her name calling and yet she has the audacity to call US childish.
wow...can anyone say HYPOCRITE

Lando-I just don't like you.

Okay people, let's not stoop to her level.

It is funny how momof3 is incredibly childish with her name calling and yet she has the audacity to call US childish.
wow...can anyone say HYPOCRITE

The only one I see getting worked up is the one calling her opponents losers and fakes.

What about you guys?

You sure didn't seem "calm as can be" While using words like "crap", "stupid", and "loser"

Okay,then someone please explain to me why abortion is NOT murder?

The only one I see getting worked up is the one calling her opponents losers and fakes.

What about you guys?

I'm calm... Laughing my butt off... But calm...

"Lando-I just don't like you."

That's fine. I didn't expect to be greeted warmly here.

How do you feel about women that have multiple abortions? Do you accept this?

We've already explained it to you. If you're having trouble reading, or even easier, scrolling up, that's not our problem.

I don't think any of us expected warm welcomes here...

sorry dont know why that double posted

Depends on the circumstances... I wish there were no need for ANY abortions... But I don't presume to know any other woman's situation...

You haven't explained anything.

Momof3
whats the point? This has already been done and you disagree... so why bother?

Momof3, do you automatically dislike everyone who disagrees with you? That is a very sad state of being.

I don't think that women who get multiple abortions are "right" but I think they should have the choice, and I do not have the RIGHT to tell a woman what to do with her life

I am the 17 year old daughter of Hisman. I have been very blessed to live in a loving Christian home my entire life.

Emily, you said you are wanting to be a youth pastor. Pretend I was coming to you to you asking for advice (and these issues will definitely come up in this day and age). I have had sex with my boyfriend and now I'm pregnant. I ask you straight up, (as a helpless teenager scared to go to tell my parents) "Is it okay if I get an abortion?" What are you going to tell me? I have been taught my entire life that abortion is wrong and I know that if my parents find out it will seem like the whole world is against me. I would be looking for hope. Is there hope found in an abortion? Your answer to me is, "It's your choice." So say I made the decision to go through with this abortion based on your advice. Do you really think I would have thought I made the right choice? I know I wouldn't have.

Momof3, I can scroll up and copy and paste multiple posts telling you exactly what murder is and exactly why abortion doesn't fall under that definition, but that would be a waste of your time and mine. You could very much more easily scroll up and re-read them.

*lol* Is there anything I could say that will change your mind and make you realize that you have no RIGHT to take choice away from anyone? I doubt it... So why bother...

Abortion is murder and abortionists are murderers.How do you feel about a baby that has his skull punctured and his brains sucked out because his mother didn't want him? Is this not killing?

If you are hisman daughter then you wouldn't be having sex because you "daddy" has brainwashed you that sex is evil and wrong.

"How do you feel about women that have multiple abortions? Do you accept this?"

She has the right to do that. I would have to see each individual circumstance to know if I personally thought each reason was "vaild."

Of course, my personal opinions don't really matter in the long run. She has the choice to do that.

I would have told you that I don't think abortion is the right answer, but that I cannot tell you not to... I would tell you that you should talk to your parents (because being your youth minister I would know your parents) and I would offer to help you find resources to help you and your family through this hard time...

I would NEVER advocate abortion and I would never just tell you to "choose on your own"

Why do you people even bother coming to a pro-life site?

Momof3, you're referring to the intact dilation and extraction procedure, which is done very rarely, and only on late-term abortions in extreme medical conditions. If you are having a late term abortion, chances are, you wanted a child very much. I really don't know what you're talking about.

Careful emily, they are going to tell you that you are advocating it because you support choice.

I would try to give you as much access to places where you could get help (counseling, monetary help, prenatal care, medical care) but I would try to convince you that abortion was NOT the right way to go... If you decided to get an abortion anyway... THat's your choice, but I'd know I'd done all I could to help you in another direction

By the way, do you call doctors who perform tonsilectomies "tonsilectomists" and doctors who perform heart transplants "heart transplantists"?

I realize... There is nothing I could say that would make them happy... ut I'd be able to live with myself and know that I was right with God... that's all that matters to me... Not what they think of me

"How do you feel about a baby that has his skull punctured and his brains sucked out because his mother didn't want him? Is this not killing?"

A couple inaccuracies here.

1. Not a baby, but that's arguing semantics

2. The procedure you refer to is ID&X, which is only used in late-term abortions and ONLY to save the mother after other avenues have been exhausted, as per AMA regulations and federal law.

3. As such, the procedure is not performed because the mother "didn't want him". If a pregnancy lasts 25+ weeks, I think we can say she did want a child, which makes this procedure a sad necessity.

4. The ID&X procedure you describe, according to Guttmacher, accounts for 0.17 percent of all abortions. Once again, only to save the mother.

Yes, it is killing, but ID&X is, if anything more justified than any other form of abortion.

Ilana,It is not rare.

Well, I come because I get quite a bit of amusement listening to you all spout out ridiculous pro-life rhetoric.

mom: you would be bored with out us here. Besides we like to give you guys a taste of reality and truth every once in a while

Oh silly Ilana, don't you know that only "abortionists" are evil and horrid enough to warrent that their professions are also their titles?

Once again Ilana, we're on the same track.

I sense a connection here.

Yes, sweetie, it is rare. In 2000, before the "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban," ID&X accounted for 0.17% of all abortions.

The American Medical Association has ruled that ID&X is to be an absolute last resort, and any doctor caught performing the procedure for any reason except for an extreme situation where there is no other alternative will lose their liscence and will be subject to inquiry.

are regular doctors at hospitals who give abortions also abortionists?

Of course they are Mars... How dare you ask such a SILLY question...

Well Lando,at least you do call it murder.Perhaps I underestimated you.Let's just say we could all agree to keep abortion safe,legal,and rare. Do you really think that's going to happen 4000 abortions a day.That's a lot.

Nothing in response to what I will tell any of my "kids" who come to me with a pregnancy when I become a Youth Minister... Come on... There has to be SOMETHING wrong with what I said I'd do...

Mars,any doctor that performs an abortion is a murderer. Is anyone who steals $ from their job a thief? I'd say so.

Emily, you're pro-choice, that's what's wrong with what you do. Duuuuuuhhhh.

That's why we need better sex ed and better contraception... That is the ONLY way to reduce the number of abortions...

When somenone says, "I'm having a baby!"

What does that mean?

Daughter of His Man.

Oh... Yeah... Of course... Thanks for pointing out my error Ilana... How silly of me...

Momof3, once again, do you call a doctor who performs a tonsilectomy a tonsilectomist? You never answered my question.

I believe lando the loser.. oh wait i mean lando the great said partial birth abortions are rare, not abortions in general.

Hey Daughter of His Man!!!

Sup Sugar??

This is a great piece, it hits the nail on the head. Perfect-

Thank-you bloggers at JillStanek.com

... I wish one of you would run for office!

Daughter of HisMan, that likely means that a fetus has implanted into the lining of the uterus. This fetus has come from a division of cells after a sperm and a fertlized egg meet and the fertlized egg manages to implant and slowly divide and grow into a blastula, a zygote, an embryo, then a fetus.

uhhh... That they are having a baby?

There's a difference between saying "I'm having a baby" and saying "I'm pregnant". Usually those people that say I'm having a baby, really want to have a baby. If I were pregnant and didn't want to be, I would say "I'm pregnant" and then probably burst into tears.

"I'm having a baby!" Let's see. "I'm pregnant right now but in a few months I'm going to give birth and then I will have a baby!" Or, "My water just broke and I'm in labor and I will have a baby!"

Thank you Kate.... I was just about to say the same thing!

DOHM:
it means in a few months they will give birth to a fetus that will be a baby...

I can see that some of the commenters here are still buying into Satan's lie.....how sad.

"daughter of hisman"

I think you are really "hisman"

I don't believe Satan's lie... I live the Word of God... But that's just me...

What's Satan's lie??

I'm a Worshipper of the God of Sex, apparently.

"Well Lando,at least you do call it murder."

Eh, you did underestimate me. I said it was killing. Not murder.

Jasper, doesnt matter what god thinks. This is the US, not a church

Since Satan doesn't exist, how can I buy into the lie of something that doesn't exist?

I think that the people who concieved Christianity made up Satan because they didn't want to believe their God could be capable of things they didn't like.

Diana,

OK.

Then stay away if at least you are not amused.

My argument, just in case you couldn't read between the lines, was that abortion is murder.

Is that clear enough?

Still nothing on what I'd do for the "pregnant 17 y/o girl" who came to me for advice? I'm disappointed...

Cameron,I thought you were barred from this site? Darn! Jasper means that the devil has you in a web of lies.You believe satan and he laughs at you.

Less, I like THAT god. Much more fun than the "GOD" these guys believe in!
and I think Jasper is HisMan

PS. You guys would be bored if I wasn't here.HA!

Lando,same thing.I got you to call it killing!

Ugh. I have a serious problem getting motivated today. I just can't concentrate on school knowing what has been going on at others :/

killing does not = murder... So no... Not the same thing...

"I think that the people who concieved Christianity made up Satan"

Well.. that sort of goes without saying. If you're a satanist, you are technically a christian, because satan is a biblical figure necesitating God and Jesus and what not.

Hehehe, bet so. I didn't know I worshipped the God of sex, but apparently using condoms and enjoying the poetry of William Blake means I, in fact, do.

"Lando,same thing.I got you to call it killing!"

If you look at my posts, I made it clear that abortion indeed results in death for the fetus. I never deny that

Emily,Yes it does!!! Don't be upset that one of your team members let it slip.

Momof3, is all killing murder? No. Sorry. You lose once again.

Gestator of 3;

"believe satan"

I think anyone who doesn't subscribe to exactly what y'all "beleive" is supposedly beleiving in satan... which is pretty much most of the industrialized world.

Less: Then i bet the fact that I am on the pill AND I use condoms and I have been known to watch Jenna Jamison means that I am for SURE worshipping the god of sex.
how fun

Which killing is not murder?

"Don't be upset that one of your team members let it slip."

I don't see what I let slip. I have always acknowledged the obvious: Abortion kills a fetus. No one else has denied it, either.

Self Defense and Abortion for two...

"Which killing is not murder?"

How about self-defense for starters??

Go ask the United States government. There are several different kinds of killing. The Bible says so too. There is manslaughter, murder, killing in self defense... Do you read the news?

killing during a time of war in a war zone usually isn't considered murder either...

Lando,I take back what I said about you!!*TRUCE*

"Which killing is not murder?"

Warefare. Unless you're on the losing side.

lol Oh look a call for a truce!

Mars: We can worship the God of Sex together.

"*TRUCE*"

No need. I was never offended.

I am going to kill this chicken so that I may eat it... I am killing but is it murder?

Ohhh... Good one Jana!

ohhh what happened to Jesus' bo (His Man)??

I really don't know who denied that abortion kills a fetus.

I have to ask: Do you fight against people driving cars, because cars can get into accidents and kill human beings?

Truce?
what?
are you deciding to grow up and stop the name calling?
good.
Less: Awesome.

I fight against Duck hunters... cuz lil' duckies have mommy's too.

So, tomorrow is the due date. when the baby is to take it's first breath.. THEN it's a baby?

That makes no sense.

Is there really a difference between saying "I'm pregant", or "I'm having I baby"?

I might as well say that "Everyone, I have an announcement to make... I am having a zygote!"

*In response to an earlier comment: my parents and teachers and friends did a very good job of sharing with me the beauty of sex. I made the choice ON MY OWN that I will not particiapte in sex before marriage because that is to be kept sacred between my future husband and me.

No reason not to be....Daughter of Hisman

For that matter they better all become vegetarians. All animals have mommys that love them...

Good for you daughter... Too bad not everyone thinks the way you do... But they don't...

Be kind to your web-footed friends.

No, sweetie. You currently HAVE a zygote. You will be HAVING a baby in the future.

Do you not understand how tense participles work?

I'd be glad to explain them to you if you'd like.

Ilana... Don't you KNOW... She has a Pre-born baby... Duh...

DOHM
There is a difference. You wouldnt say you are having a zygote because when you give birth it is called a baby. In the womb it is called a fetus. This is not my point of view, this is the medical term...

For a second there, I thought Jesus' bo was transgender... then His Daughter... whew!!

His Dauther,

Have you asked your father if your a an in-vitro left over... adopted for the purposes of being a pro-life poster baby? Seriously... your pa's got some zeal, and you should consider...

*shhh* Mars don't confuse them with medical fact!

I find it funny that in this post, HisMan accuses pro-choice supporters of being power-hungry.

In my experience, pro-lifers are more power-hungry and controllong. They abhor it when someone defies their beliefs, and will do everything in their power to make someone feel bad for defying their beliefs.

"What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know wh