[Hat tip: Fran at IR]

...But only if that puppy is sucking up too many vital nutriants (a.k.a. money) via Kibbles n Bits. We all know that we, as pet owners, can not be expected to care for the animals that we bred.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/benson/

Let's not forget the countless doctors who testify that there is never a medical indication for PBA.

Jill,

And btw, could this critical shortage of abortionists (so sad) be why another of my favorite pro-aborts, SOMG, is promoting self-abortions and abortions by nondoctors? Back alley to front alley to back alley...

C'mon, fess up...that's SOMG in the cartoon isn't it? The one with the mask? Out of work are we SOMG?

mk

LOVE IT!!!! haha
So true, so true.

I'm soooo glad that doctors are refusing to do abortions. Watch out for a new group of med students.They call themselves Students for Choice.

It could be Leroy Carhart.[Nebraska abortionist] That guy LOOKS like a total disgusting pervert.When I look at pics. of him, he is creepy looking! He also was performing PBA at his NE clinic.

Cameron, neither are supreme court justices practitioners of a vast number of other specialties they regulary adjudicate. The cartoon you cite is compelling only if one neglects that obvious fact.

Niiice!!

I could never perform a late-term abortion. I hope being the PA I'm never ordered to do one!

PIP, that's an interesting concern. If pro-"choicers" had their way, you'd be forced to. In NY, it is now mandatory that med students learn abortions.

But there are conscience clause laws for medical professionals in almost every state.

That's good.

how does this have anything to do with abortion (really)? And I am sure a doc that performs them, does the legal ones too, so he will not be out of a job.

**and animal cruelty is wrong**

Wasn't a very clever cartoon...

I have to say, I like this cartoon. Seems to sum up a large number of pro-lifers I've met.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/Q/bush_probomb.jpg

Oh and this one too (since we're sharing cartoons):
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2006-07-17.gif

PIP -- you're a PA / or becoming one? That is so cool! I thought about pursuing that once, but I think I'm leaning a different way. I always thought it sounded cool, and the demand for PA's just keeps growing. Sounds like a good field.

midnite, it's not okay to suck the brains out of a dog but it is okay to suck the brains out of a baby?

JAJ-- yes, I'm working on my undergrad right now. Thank you! It's a lot of work, but I think the profession will be very rewarding. Where are you leaning?

Jill, I checked out this femenists for life site...I'm digging it.

PIP,I checked out that site too. It is great.

"If pro-"choicers" had their way, you'd be forced to. In NY, it is now mandatory that med students learn abortions."

Any why not? If you want to become a doctor (regardless of the medical field you choose) you should know everything you might have to do. That's the same as the pharmacist refusing to fill out a prescription for the Morning After Pill because he thinks it's "abortion" - if you don't want to do parts of your job, get another one. Easy.

Ingrid,

Boy you sure are all about choice when you're the one making the choices. But if it's someone else making the choices...well, then, force is okay?

Force is not okay, and it's not okay to just pick the parts you like and ignore the rest if you want to become a doctor. You never know what might happen...

Are you human, MK? Not even six and you're already here? ;)

Ingrid,

You just said that doctors should be forced to perform abortions.

I get up early because it's the only time of the day that's mine.

This way when the kids get up, I have already showered and had two cups of coffee...ahhhh, bliss!

mk

Should a foot doctor also have to pull teeth?
I mean really, doctors choose what they want to do all the time. And they used to take an oath that said they would NEVER aid in an abortion.

PIP, 11:03p, said: "midnite, it's not okay to suck the brains out of a dog but it is okay to suck the brains out of a baby?"

Excellent question.

PIP, 12:28a: I'm happy you are liking Feminists for Life. If you ever get a chance to hear Serrin Foster or any of the other FFL leaders speak on campus, you'll be even more impressed.

Ingrid, 5:34a, said: " If you want to become a doctor (regardless of the medical field you choose) you should know everything you might have to do."

Ingrid, there are any number of "medical" procedures a doctor could learn to perform, like skinning humans, that fall outside the boundaries of decency.

The difference between a D&C for a miscarriage and a D&C for an induced abortion is whether the baby is alive when the procedure is initiated. Medical students can learn all they need to know to practice ethical medicine without being forced to kill people while so learning.

Where's your support of choice, Ingrid?

No, I said they should learn everything that could come up in their job later. Including abortion. If you don't want to perform abortions, become a dentist.

Gotta go now. Need to find something I could call "lunch"...

Wow, I am happy that Ingrid spoke up because she truly exposed herself for what she really is.

So not only should pharmacists be forced to give women a drug to cause them to have abortions, but now doctors should also be forced to perform abortions. Amazing.

And these people say they're not pro-abortion! When asked the right questions, the truth comes out!

Unfortunately, a pharmacist's job is to give people drugs-prescribed by their respective doctors- regardless of said pharmacist's political views. What if a pharmacist refused to give one of your kids anti biotics because he believed they were "harmful"?
Also, if you want to be a doctor you have to learn all kinds of medical procedures, whether or not you turn out to be a brain surgeon, ob, foot doctor, dermatologist, etc. You pay your dues and then if you so choose not to be a doctor that might have to perform abortions, then you are free to choose one of the many areas of concentration where you don't have to worry about it.

Unfortunately, a pharmacist's job is to give people drugs-prescribed by their respective doctors- regardless of said pharmacist's political views. What if a pharmacist refused to give one of your kids anti biotics because he believed they were "harmful"?

Actually, if he told me he had evidence that it was doing some serious harm to children, I would be appreciative.

But that aside, the Plan B pill isn't just harmful, it's potentially deadly. It's an abortificant. And no pharmacist (or anyone) should be forced to be a participant in homocide, no matter how small the victim.

So JK, do you also think that doctors should be forced to perform abortions?

*homicide

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you don't agree with aspects of your job you are perfectly free to choose from any other of the millions of jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to the head of a pharmacist and making him hand out birth control, no one is holding a gun to the head of an ob/gyn and forcing him or her to perform an abortion. If you don't want to perform abortions, don't become an ob/gyn, choose something else, or go into private practice or practice at a hospital that does not give abortion. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

JK I have a question for you. Did being a pharmacist ALWAYS require giving women abortive remedies?

No no no, JK, answer the question.

Actually, answer both questions.

I actually did answer your question. A pharmacists job is to give out drugs, plan b is a drug, therefore if a woman comes in to get plan b a pharmacist's job is to give it to her.

Well,

JK, no one wants to hold a gun to a pregnant womens head and "force" her to carry her child to term, but you still say we want to "force" them to.

So, unless a gun is involved, it's not force?

In both instances, the doctor and the abortion-want-to-be, options are removed. But plenty of other options remain.

In your own words: "If you don't want to perform abortions, don't become an ob/gyn, choose something else, or go into private practice or practice at a hospital that does not give abortion. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

If you don't want to carry your pregnancy to term, don't become pregnant. Choose something else. Like abstinence.

If you don't want to become a mother, don't become pregnant. Or choose something else, give the baby up for adoption. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

You sure do want it both ways. Don't force me, but force the doctors.

Yesterday Less wanted the right to decide if a baby should live or die, but didn't want to give the same right to decide, to someone who would hold her life in their hands if she became brain damaged.

Jess claims that it's wrong for soldiers and police to kill in self defense or when protecting the public, but thinks it's okay to kill babies.

Inconsistencies, inconsistencies, inconsistencies!
My, My, My.

MK

No one is holding a gun to the head of a pharmacist and making him hand out birth control, no one is holding a gun to the head of an ob/gyn and forcing him or her to perform an abortion. If you don't want to perform abortions, don't become an ob/gyn, choose something else, or go into private practice or practice at a hospital that does not give abortion. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

What if someone wanted to be a doctor who preserved life, and not ended it?

"What if a pharmacist refused to give one of your kids anti biotics because he believed they were 'harmful'?"

OK, I gather that this is a rhetorical question intending to point out the folly of something.

Is it true, then, that you would regularly buy chemicals to put in your body from a pharmacist who would be TOTALLY INDIFFERENT to whether, in his opinion, what he was giving you was harmful?

Think about this for all of two seconds. If a pharmacist refuses to give you something because he believes it's harmful, that's obvious. You see it happening, because he doesn't give it to you. You may be astonished, but you know what's going on. So you shrug at this idiocentric nut and go to a different pharmacist.

On the other hand, if a pharmacist believes some drugs to be harmful but DOESN'T refuse to sell them -- the pharmacist shrugs and believes it's his obligation to sell whatever is successfully marketed enough that consumers ante up for it cheerfully -- that's something you'll never know, because he'll just hand you the stuff he believes is harmful as cheerfully as he'd hand you a box of Aspirin.

I mean, pick your poison. Anonymous risk from an indifferent pharmacist, or idiosyncratic disclosure from a pharmacist with conscience.

What if I wanted to be an ob-gyn who delivered babies and protected them, protected their mother?

Rasqual, great points.

MK,
the gun is just an analogy of force

rasqual,
it is not up to each and every pharmacist to test the safety of the drugs that they sell, they have them to sell because the FDA has already performed numerous tests on their safety.

Bethany,
You didn't read my entire post, I said you could choose private practice or a hospital that didn't perform abortions if you really wanted to be an ob/gyn

Just about a month ago, my pharmacist told me about the risks associated with Phenergan, when my doctor had prescibed them for my 1 1/2 year old son, and didn't bother to tell me about the risks associated with it. The pharmacist told me about this:

"Phenergan should not be given to a child younger than 2 years old. Phenergan can cause severe breathing problems or death in a child younger than 2. Carefully follow your doctor's instructions when giving this medicine to a child of any age."

and recommended that I give him Zofran instead, which is safer.

Was that pharmacist wrong for doing so? Should he just have blindly given me the medication without any concern for my child's well being?

The original/classic:

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

The modern/revised:

if it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life;

Notice it does not say to let a life be taken, as in natural death, but to Take a life

One doctors reaction:

Generation X has recently matriculated into the field of clinical medicine, and our national healthcare system will only suffer further when we tolerate physicians who do not care, apply inappropriate medical techniques, and have little professional respect for the patient-physician relationship as outlined in this product of early medical philosophy.
R.E.B.

The point was that he did offer you an alternative that helped to treat your son.

Women who get refused plan b get the "next time try abstinance, whore"

How does Plan B help "treat" a woman, JK? Is abortion a treatment for some kind of disease?

And MK, I am so saddened to think that they changed the hippocratic oath in such a way since it was written. Those words were there for a reason.

As much as I'd love beating my head against a brick wall further, I have to go to class.

JK,

Women who get refused plan b get the "next time try abstinance, whore"

Show me where anyone, ANYONE, has ever said this on this site...

mk

As much as I'd love beating my head against a brick wall further, I have to go to class.

I feel bad for that brick wall...

mk

If I wanted to become a doctor, this is what I'm going for:

A person, especially a physician, dentist, or veterinarian, trained in the healing arts and licensed to practice.

I don't believe that my job description should include killing babies. I believe I should have the RIGHT to be a doctor anywhere, without being forced to kill babies, or being told "try being a dentist". Maybe I don't WANT to be a dentist, maybe I want to be a doctor, who heals, not destroys life. And maybe I don't WANT to be in private practice in order to be given the RIGHT not to KILL.

MK,
A few minutes ago you posted this:

"If you don't want to carry your pregnancy to term, don't become pregnant. Choose something else. Like abstinence."

And you have mentioned abstinence plenty of times in the past.

And this is the last I'll say because I have to go

And again I ask:

Women who get refused plan b get the "next time try abstinance whore".

Show me where anyone, ANYONE, has ever said this on this site?

mk

Too bad for you Bethany. You don't have a CHOICE

at least not according to QJK.

mk

I guess you people are not concerned at all for my education....

Bethany and MK, I said countless times in my post who can choose what job you have, there are countless hospitals and other places to practice that do not offer abortions.

And MK,
whore was for dramatic effect

Goodbye all

Bethany and MK, I said countless times in my post who can choose what job you have, there are countless hospitals and other places to practice that do not offer abortions.

But how long will that last, as long as you pro-aborts have your way?
hmm?

Lauren, terrific post.

Thanks Bethany!

See JK, what we were discussing was "if pro-aborts had their way".
Ingrid agreed that it was great that NY is now mandating abortions in medical training.
If it's already started in NY, who's to say it's not going to be everywhere eventually, just like the pharmacists/plan b situation?

Yeah, if you go to a Catholic hospital I don't think they will perform abortions or IVFs, so as long as I find one to work at..

It might be hard for me if we have to learn that technique in school..

Stop twisting my words, Bethany. I said if you want to be a doctor, you've got to know the basics of everything. Including abortion. How do you know you'll never have to perfom one in order to save the mother's life? And everybody agreed that this IS an acceptable reason for abortion, remember?

And I repeat it again: if you don't like a certain aspect of your job, it's possible that you have the wrong job.

Stop twisting my words, Bethany. I said if you want to be a doctor, you've got to know the basics of everything. Including abortion. How do you know you'll never have to perfom one in order to save the mother's life? And everybody agreed that this IS an acceptable reason for abortion, remember?
And I repeat it again: if you don't like a certain aspect of your job, it's possible that you have the wrong job.

Jill already covered that, Ingrid, and your words stand on their own.

Jill said: "The difference between a D&C for a miscarriage and a D&C for an induced abortion is whether the baby is alive when the procedure is initiated. Medical students can learn all they need to know to practice ethical medicine without being forced to kill people while so learning"

if you don't like a certain aspect of your job, it's possible that you have the wrong job.

Was it always part of the doctor's job to be forced to perform abortions?

Times change. So do job descriptions.

Nobody is forced to perform abortions. You can choose another profession then OB/Gyn, you can choose to work somewhere abortions aren't performed or you can shut up and do your job.

haha love it, Ingrid. You did it again. Thanks for proving us right.

PIP -

"Yeah, if you go to a Catholic hospital I don't think they will perform abortions or IVFs, so as long as I find one to work at..

It might be hard for me if we have to learn that technique in school.."

As far as I know a surgical abortion is only performed at Catholic hospitals when medically necessary to save the life of the Mother. An OB/GYN is going to know how to do a abortion without ever having to do a needless one for 'practice'. If the baby dies in utero and the body doesn't naturally miscarry, the OB/GYN is going to have to remove it. I had a D&C for this very reason at 13/14 weeks. (can't remember which week, depression was bad!) So, I'm not sure why NY feels that they have to force students do "learn" abortion, when the procedure is already being taught to prevent complications from a natural abortion.

I'm going through deja vu. Have we ever talked about this before?

What disease or sickness does Plan B treat, JK?

Valerie, would you want a surgeon - who has never done the procedure before - to fix a brogen bone? I'd like someone with as much experience as possible for each and any surgery I have to undergo.

"if you don't like a certain aspect of your job, it's possible that you have the wrong job."

I was an excellent Veterinary Technician. I was also the tech in surgery. But because of my belief's on animal cruelty I refused to assist in ear crops or tail docks. Did this mean I shouldn't have worked there? When a dog came in that was hit by a car and his tail was broken, I assisted in the removal of the tail because it was for medical reasons. Just because I didn't do the elective form, didn't mean I didn't know how to do it for medical reason using my medical knowledge.

Obviously, I meant broken. Sorry,

I nearly up-chucked at the brainwashing that JK is rushing to be 'educated' about .... esp. the FDA :::

Got this today:

"April 26, 2007

Site Down Again:
Here's the Fix

I am in transit to the Codex Committee on Food Labeling and Natural Solutions Foundation's site is down again! It is still urgently important that you submit your comments to the FDA CAM (Complimentary and Alternative Modalities [or Medicine, as the FDA would have it]AND share the opportunity to do so.

Comments end on April 30 (we MAY be able to submit for another month, but that is not clear right now!)

As of this moment, 145,541 people have submitted their comments on this over reach by the FDA through our site! Good, but not good enough! We need to show the kind of strength that we have on this issue.

The last time people got this angry, we got the Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act (DSHEA, 1994) which gave us back the right to take any supplements we desire since they are classified as food and therefore recognized as safe.

Clearly not everyone is happy about our strength!

But we need all the comments we can get right now.

Here is the link: Use it and tell your circle of contacts, alternative doctors, naturopaths, health food store owners, nutritionists, homeopaths, massage therapists, friends, suppliers, everyone else to use it, too. Post it to your chat groups. Ignore the distracting and incorrect internet chatter, some of it from well meaning people, some not, that says this is not important. It IS important.

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/healthfreedomusa/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=7185

If it does not work, send me an email at dr.laibow@gmail.com with "Submit" in the subject line and your full name and address in the body. We have hired data entry people to submit for you.

But do it. Now.

Yours in health and freedom,
Rima E. Laibow, MD

Natural Solutions Foundation
www.HealthFreedomUSA.org
dr.laibow@gmail.com

Help Us Stop Codex!

_ _ _ _ "

from yesterday:

http://www.newstarget.com/021789.html

please help. everyone here is needed to save lives - 3 Billion world-wide (Codex's estimate), your parents, sibs, grandparents .... they will just laugh at pro-choicers' body-autonomy argument and ask if you have enough strength to dig-your-own-grave. ... a HUGE pro-death threat!

Plan B is emergency contraception, Bethany, I thought you would know that since you fancy yourself an expert.

Plan B is emergency contraception, Bethany, I thought you would know that since you fancy yourself an expert.

That didn't answer my question. I asked what sickness or disease that Plan B helps to treat. Is it medicine?

Actually, John, the class I was going to was a music class, but nice try attempting to insult the "hideously liberal immorality mills" [(this is called humor MK, just so you know)] commonly known as public universities.

Oh, come on Bethany, you can think of more clever ways to bait people into sparring with you. Are you really this bored? Perhaps you should do something productive with your day.

Just answer the question, Jk...honestly!

And by the way, I know this has nothing to do with the current discussion, but are you by any chance lefthanded? You have said you are into photography and also are into music. Seems like most people who do that stuff are lefthanded or ambedextrous. I'm ambedextrous, and I love anything artsy like that.

Ingrid -

"Valerie, would you want a surgeon - who has never done the procedure before - to fix a brogen bone? I'd like someone with as much experience as possible for each and any surgery I have to undergo."

Would I want someone with the most knowledge possible? yes. If that person isn't available would I refuse to have my broken bone set? no. If the person is a surgeon then I'm sure they know what they are doing.

AND since we are not discussing broken bones, we are discussing abortion, it is irrelavant. Why? Because an OB/GYN knows how to do a D&C. An OB/GYN knows how to remove a baby that has naturally died in utero. He has the knowledge without being forced to perform elective abortion in school.

In High School, I hated math. With a passion... I still needed to somehow get through it because it's required to graduate. I'll never need it again (hopefully), but I know the basics. Same goes for a doctor. You've got to know a little bit of everything before specialising but that doesn't mean you'll need it all later.

Plan B does not treat or cure a disease as I would never call a fetus (or baby if you prefer) I disease, it is a more concentrated dose of birth control which prevents a person who has had unprotected sex in the past however many hours from getting pregnant. I hope this is a sufficient answer.

And I am slightly ambedextrous, my right hand being most dominant. There are some random things that I do left handed such as open jars and bottles. This music class is just a university studies class, I don't play an instrument but I want to learn the drums.

Ingrid -

"In High School, I hated math. With a passion... I still needed to somehow get through it because it's required to graduate. I'll never need it again (hopefully), but I know the basics. Same goes for a doctor. You've got to know a little bit of everything before specialising but that doesn't mean you'll need it all later."

Exactly my point! ya gotta know the basic's and a D&C is the basics. And knowing how to remove a baby that has died in utero would be the basic knowledge one would need to be able to perform an elective abortion if the mother's life is in danger, without putting her in further danger.

Why force a person do learn elective abortion if they already know how to do them for medical reasons?

JK -

"And I am slightly ambedextrous, my right hand being most dominant. There are some random things that I do left handed such as open jars and bottles. This music class is just a university studies class, I don't play an instrument but I want to learn the drums."

My husband is ambedextrous and is awsome on the drums! If only I can get him to start playing again! ugg..... ;-{

Both my parents are left handed.

Did your husband ever play in a band?

"If the baby dies in utero and the body doesn't naturally miscarry, the OB/GYN is going to have to remove it."

Right. Sorry, I must not have made myself clear. If the baby dies, and I have to remove it, I will do it. If I am involved in an emergency medical procedure, I could do that too. That is a technique that I should be taught. But it would be hard to learn a technique like that by actually performing elective abortions. It's the intent, right? That is what is important. It's exactly the situation you describe about tail docks and ear crops.

Ingrid, if you go to a teaching hospital you will have relatively inexperienced people working on you all the time.

"Plan B does not treat or cure a disease as I would never call a fetus (or baby if you prefer) I disease, it is a more concentrated dose of birth control which prevents a person who has had unprotected sex in the past however many hours from getting pregnant. I hope this is a sufficient answer."

Then why 'force' pharmacists to give it out? I would say, A pharmacists who lives in a small town and is the only pharmacist available should probably carry what is in demand for the public and if Plan B is in demand I can see your point. But when there are other pharmacies, other hospitals etc. And it is not an 'emergency' since you have up to 72 hours I don't see why a person should be 'forced' to give it.

Also, A pharmacist in an E.R. should not be allowed to say no to such drug because that is where most rape victims would go. (Actually this is why I think Plan B should only be available through hospitals. Many women in a panick after being raped may take Plan B and not get the help she needs. If she has to go to a hospital, where people are trained to recognize certain behaviors, we may just get more bastard rapists off the street.)

Anywho - I think I strayed a bit from the topic - There are certain times where I can see that it would be wrong for a pharmacist to say no. But for the majority, I think they should be allowed to decide for themselves.

JK -

Yes he was in a local band. They didn't play out very much though. He had a mini-recording studio in the basement when I met him. They recorded alot of songs. But then the band broke up (ohh...horrible fights!) and he hasn't really gone back to it. He keeps saying that he wants to sell his equipment but I won't let him...

And I am slightly ambedextrous, my right hand being most dominant. There are some random things that I do left handed such as open jars and bottles. This music class is just a university studies class, I don't play an instrument but I want to learn the drums.

Cool! :)
I play a lot of stringed instruments and do a lot of muraling and drawing. And ever since I got a digital camera several years ago I take pictures all the time. What kind of photos do you take?

And yes, I'll take your answer, haha
Of course, if I thought that plan b prevented pregnancy only, I wouldn't object to it.

Then why 'force' pharmacists to give it out? I would say, A pharmacists who lives in a small town and is the only pharmacist available should probably carry what is in demand for the public and if Plan B is in demand I can see your point. But when there are other pharmacies, other hospitals etc. And it is not an 'emergency' since you have up to 72 hours I don't see why a person should be 'forced' to give it.

Exactly. Thank you so much, Valerie.

Bethany,
I enjoy outdoor photography much better than studio work. Most of my work has to do with the history of my family. First it was about the dying profession of farming (which is what my family did until it became no longer profitable). I found a bunch of old polariods and some very very old photos and I began to incorporate them into my images. I am also a surrealist painter.

Do you have a website?

No, I don't.

I don't have any spare money to get a domain name or anything like that. But I was thinking of joining something like deviantart.

Do that, for sure! :) If you do get an account setup, I'd love to see your artwork. Rae also does artwork, but I can't remember where she had her link posted. She did some pretty nice stuff. You can see mine atthis link, and also at my blog (click my name and then select a category).

Wow, those are really excellent :-)

How long does it usually take to finish one?

Sometimes it just takes a few days...the one on the front page I worked on for 3 days with a mechanical 2B pencil. The mule drawing took me three months. Thanks, JK :D

How about your murals? Do you get a lot of commissions for them?

And I enjoy drawing with a mechanical pencil also, but some think its crazy

Well it does take a lot longer with the mechanical pencil but it really does do a great job with fine details. :-)

I have not gotten any commissioned murals yet.... I have done several for people for free. lol Like the one I did of the baptistery.

I did get an offer recently to possibly paint a 600 linear foot wall at a mall (the size of 2 football fields), and I put my bid in but haven't heard back from the m on it yet. They haven't finished building the mall so I don't know whether they have found someone else to do it or if they are just waiting till the surface is ready. It's a huge job though, so I won't be too disappointed if I don't get it after all. But I pay for a new home in full if I do get it!

If you get this job will you get to pick the subject matter? Or do the mall admins already have something in mind?

Yes, they have it already picked out...it's But it's not a difficult design...just really, really large! Here's the wall as it looks now:
http://www.muralsplus.com/discus/messages/10/113125.jpg

(Jill, I'm sorry for hijacking this thread. lol)

So this mall looks like a long way away from being finished, so I guess not a lot of worrying for you right now...lol

A friend of mine did a mural at the local YMCA indoor pool, A really great underwater scene. I'll try to see if I can find a link for it.

Bethany, no, you and JK have fun... :)

not much luck at finding the pic I'm looking for, the YMCA's website is heavy on the text and low on the pictures

Bethany: Here is the link to my artwork:

http://kendranoelle.deviantart.com

JK: Deviantart is awesome...I've been a member there since I was a freshman in high school I believe...so just about 5 years now. Lordy I'm getting old! Eeep!

I just joined actually so I will get you all the link when I have put all my stuff on there :-)

Ahh, JD and Turk, I love it!

I can tell you're an anime fan

One of my best friends is an artist.

http://www.evabeuke.com/

Thanks Rae, for the link. JK, I'm looking forward to seeing your page. And PIP, I'm checking out your link now :)

PIP, your friend is very talented! I love this one:

http://www.evabeuke.com/hannah.htm

JK: Yesh...I was a pretty big anime fan, I still like to draw in the style but I don't watch it as much (it gets repetitive...). I am trying to branch away from it, develop my own style but I don't draw too much at school (though I wish I did...instead of spending so much time online! eep!).

I am out of practice in drawing, I want to start back

No time like the present! :)

Yeah, after finals, I'll start

Since we're just chatting,
PIP, I commented on your blog about your music videos... I just love them! They are so cute. Especially the "You can call me Al" video.

Is that you and your boyfriend? I would post the link here but wouldn't want to do that without your permission.

Oh my fritz! I love the "You Can Call Me Al" song! I used to go bananas when that video would come on VH1 when I was little, I'd run into the room to dance to it. :-p

I was a weird little kid.

I have to leave now....photo lab moniter duty....but I'll be back and work on my page more and get you that link, Bethany.

"rasqual, it is not up to each and every pharmacist to test the safety of the drugs that they sell, they have them to sell because the FDA has already performed numerous tests on their safety."

Interesting -- especially with the controversy surrounding how ineffective the FDA has become in its evaluation cycle.

But I didn't say "test," and that's not really what's at stake here. In other words, nice dodge.

Rae -

"I was a weird little kid."

Was?

Sorry - couldn't help it. I'm on a roll today.

Music - awsome! didn't know if you saw my post on that or not....

"PIP, your friend is very talented! I love this one:"
Thanks! That's actually a portrait of her older sister. There are 5 kids in her family, only two of them girls, and Eva is the youngest!

"Since we're just chatting,
PIP, I commented on your blog about your music videos... I just love them! They are so cute. Especially the "You can call me Al" video. "
Thank you! I pride myself on making of the bad music videos!

"Is that you and your boyfriend? I would post the link here but wouldn't want to do that without your permission. "

Nope, we aren't together, but he is one of my best friends. He is who I am travelling to New York with. It's one of those things like we can talk about everything, and we know each other very well, so becoming romantically involved will be gross!!

Feel free to link. Oh, I'll just do it now.

Everyone enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRJ7QuF51oY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cvqcIVZDs

haha wow, bethany, you had to go far back to find those videos! Haha, I had to go back like 5 pages!

Yeah I was kind of bored, :D hee hee

PIP,you are so adorable. You're a great dancer too. Very cute video. Thanks for the afternoon entertainment.

Scott said,

"Cameron, neither are supreme court justices practitioners of a vast number of other specialties they regulary adjudicate. The cartoon you cite is compelling only if one neglects that obvious fact."

Yes, and doctors don't use hammers to conduct abortions. Reality is usually deliberately neglected in cartoons for the sake of humor, Einstein!

Awww thanks guys :)

Cameron,abortionists may as well use hammers. Were you okay with the puncture of a baby"s skull and the removal of his brains? How about sticking a needle through his heart with Digoxin? God,how sick can you be?

PIP -

"It's one of those things like we can talk about everything, and we know each other very well, so becoming romantically involved will be gross!!"

I have a friend just like that! It was hard dating because guys just didn't get that nothing was going on. My husband didn't have much of a problem with it. Now, it is sad to say, my husband stole him away from me. *sniff*

;-)

They are great friends, which is awsome.

Have fun in NY. I forget, when are you going?

Thanks!
The week after finals, so we leave early the 14th. We got tickets to everything we had hoped for, so I'm definately excited.

I hope to meet Stephen Colbert when we go see his show. Just a small obsession with him, that's all..

@Valerie: You're right...the weirdness has not faded. ^_^

You know, I may be able to eventually get some of the other music videos up, plus I hope to make some more over the summer...

PIP,
As long as everyone is throwin' around music, I might as well jump in...

If you like Simon And Gar. because it's folky you might like a guy named Dougie MacLean...I'll see if I can find a link. He's from Scotland. I LOVE his stuff. Prob my second fav after S & G, even before James Taylor...

mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y8VCk4IZsI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMpSg78s684&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFCudS3QwGw

He usually performs in concert with an audience of a hundred or so people, so his live stuff doesn't sound as professional as his CD's. That's why the song he does with Kathy Mattea sounds so much better than the other two...

A lot of people sing his songs, so you might already know some and just not realize it..

Anyway, there's my two cents...for what it's worth.

mk

"Cameron,abortionists may as well use hammers..."

Supreme court justices may as well pretend to be doctors....

Do you people ever have a relevant point???

Bethany, I just want to reiterate that your art is spectacular. I wish you could meet my father. He was a muralist too, in Florida. One of my biggest dreams is someday going down there to see his artwork. I have a sadly scant amount of artistic talent...I can draw, but it takes me so much longer to do something intricate. That's why I'm less a visual arts person and more of a singer. :D

The Supreme court had every right to bar this heinous act that has been practiced for much too long!

Cameron, If you're sooooo unhappy with the court's ruling, why don't you go to DC and protest? Get a sign and begin screaming like a loon in front of the SC.- LOL!!!- Oh ya,maybe they will put that PBA back into effect JUST FOR YOU! *dripping with sarcasm* Remember Cameron,who likes abortion?......Answer-Irresponsible men!!

Heather4life -

Roger that. No one loves abortion more than irresponsible men. Especially domineering irresponsible men who have no intention of "their" women having a choice. "Get an abortion or I'm outta here."

Thanks MK! I'll check it out.

Oh my gosh you guys I am finding myself more and more thinking up retorts to these pro-choice slogans. It's sorta creeping me out.

PIP,

Don't be freaked out. Be proud. After awhile you can't help but begin to see how insane the pro-choice argument sounds. Not to mention how completely void of feeling it comes across as.

You're growing up girl. It's a good thing.

Hey HisMan/Bethany,
What's that quote about When I was a child I saw as a child sees?

Part of growing up means stepping outside of yourself and realizing that you are not the center of the world. Self sacrifice and self-control begin to replace self indulgence and self absorption. The bigger picture comes into focus, and immediate gratification stops being so enticing. You actually find yourself putting "others" in front of self.

It's a good thing. Before you know it, waitresses will be calling you "ma'am" instead of miss.

mk

PIP, love the "You can call me Al" video! And you look pretty in black, too!

PIP, pro-abortion cliches and arguments are utterly weak and inconsistent if given any thought whatsoever, which you're doing. Good for you.

Cameron, I think I'm the only one on this blog who thinks you're a woman. What are you? Let me rephrase that. I already know your core is somewhat demonic, but what is your gender?

Jill, I too thought it was a woman at first[thought of the actress named Cameron Diaz] I asked, but he/she refused to tell me. Now, I'm leaning towards man.

Bethany, I just want to reiterate that your art is spectacular. I wish you could meet my father. He was a muralist too, in Florida. One of my biggest dreams is someday going down there to see his artwork. I have a sadly scant amount of artistic talent...I can draw, but it takes me so much longer to do something intricate. That's why I'm less a visual arts person and more of a singer. :D

Alyssa, that is so nice of you. Thank you so much!
I hope that some day you will get to go see your father's artwork. What kind of singing do you do? I'd like to hear it. :)

Bethany,
I have the link to my artwork now for you. I'll be adding more later on as well.

http://jk1003.deviantart.com/

Wow, JK...that is neat, your style is something I have always been fascinated by. I love anything old and worn, things that have been forgotten, things that most people see as ugly, but I see them as beautiful. My husband and I drive by about a hundred old barns every day and sometimes I take pictures of them. LOVE them.
You do some really nice work.

Thank you.

In fact, speaking of old and worn, here's a drawing I did of an old Edsel that "spoke to me". lol
http://www.preciousinfants.com/edselfinished3.jpg

Wow, you drew that, that's amazing

Thank you, JK! :)

"Jill, I too thought it was a woman at first[thought of the actress named Cameron Diaz] I asked, but he/she refused to tell me. Now, I'm leaning towards man."

Given the level of insults and derogatory terms leveled at me, I prefer to remain as ambiguous as possible with you all. Seriously, your bashing me has become a past time consuming a significant percentage of most discussion threads here, and it seems to have no bounds beyond avoiding four letter words. I mostly find it ammusing though, particularly when you all make assumptions about me... and that would just spoil the fun for me if you actually knew better rather than pretending to know better.

Cameron -

"I mostly find it ammusing though, particularly when you all make assumptions about me... and that would just spoil the fun for me if you actually knew better rather than pretending to know better. "

I can respect that.

Cameron, Whatever you are,it is pure evil. You must have a reprobate mind.

Cameron, you can not pretend that you are an innocent victim of the "mean pro-lifers" bashing. I do not think I've seen you make a single post where you make any attempt of civility.

I make no assumption about you other than that you are a troll. I hope you're having fun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

http://www.flayme.com/troll/#Why

The object of this page is to bring together a definitive document to cover the utter sadness of the Internet troll. Usually, a troll is nothing more than a passing nuisance, but, as this page will show, they can be a worry (stalkers). However, it is almost invariably an inadequate individual who can be safely ignored.

This page will define the activity, and help with early recognition; once acknowledged, trolls can take up residence, and, like athlete's foot, can be difficult to shift. And when you've finished here, I recommend this fairly comprehensive guide to managing sad thirteen year olds loose on Mom's computer.
What Is A Troll?

The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.

Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.
Why do trolls do it?

I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.

Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.

Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?

Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).

How can troll posts be recognised?

* No Imagination - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
* Pedantic in the Extreme - Many trolls' preparation is so thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
* False Identity - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
* Crossposting - Any post that is crossposted to several groups should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
* Off-topic posting - Often genuine errors, but, if from an 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll post, you have denied it its reward.
* Repetition of a question or statement is either a troll - or a pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
* Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.
* Thick or Sad - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there must be an Intelligence Test for Trolls - rigged to always say "above 150"

Who is at risk?

Any newsgroup, bulletin board, forum or chatroom can attract trolls, but they don't have the brains to attack nuclear physicists, and they are drawn to the quick response where sex, religion and race are found; so politics is easy prey.

One troll famously tried to infiltrate a mensa group; the results read like 100 trolls and one regular, it didn't have a chance - but it was stupid enough to persist until removed.

When Should You Be Concerned?

Usually, no, though fractured funny bones and occasional waves of nausea have been reported.

When a troll become persistent and personal, you may need to consider the possibility that it has fermented into an Internet Stalker - equally pathetic, if not more so - but sometimes requiring weedkiller. Find Out More
Trolls - if they had brains, they just might be dangerous!

When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed. Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself.

Be thankful the Chuck Norris troll doesn't visit here.

Bethany and MK, thanks for information on trolls and psychological analysis. Cameron could fit the bill 2/3 of the time but 1/3 of the time has a clear counterpoint. I'd apply the opposite stats to SOMG.