Planned Parenthood exposed I

Ben Wetmore, chairman of Students for Life, has alerted me to a new series of videos secretly taped inside California abortion mills.

In this first one you will hear the abortion counselor say she wishes she would have aborted her now 16-year-old. She'll also recommend to who she thinks are a minor 15-year-old girl and her 23-year-old boyfriend how to get around her parents and apparently laws prohibiting statutory rape. (I'll post more soon on the abortion industry's rape cover-up.)

The end of the video is well done, thought provoking.


Comments:

How long until some pro-abort claims the audio from the clinic is fake?

Posted by: John Jansen at May 4, 2007 1:09 PM


well,
Cameron is back, so I give it 10 minutes...

mk

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:11 PM


John, it is more likely they'll complain about the fake, lying, pro-life, pseudo-clients and how dare they videotape without permission and what if they left a bomb? and launch an investigation and ultimately blame Joe Scheidler, who was never near the place but surely orchestrated the illegal spy game.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:22 PM


All this AFTER I gave them cookies...

Hi John. It's nice to see you again...How goes it at GFL?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:24 PM


I have just a few questions/comments.

As far as I know (which apparently, isn't a lot) recording somebody's voice without their permission is illegal, so by recording the woman at the PP without her permission the makers of this film are pretty much vulnerable to being arrested or sued. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though.

Second, why are they digging through the garbage like that? It's so unsanitary! There are so many forms of bacteria and viruses that grow in human blood so on that trash, there are thousands of dangerous microbes in them! You don't play with medical waste, it's hazardous and just plain stupid, even if you are trying to make a "point".

And of COURSE they're blood...what do you think the uterine lining is made of? It's blood-filled tissue. Why else do women bleed every month or after they give birth? They are shedding the bloody uterine lining.

Oy.

Posted by: Rae Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:40 PM


But the PP manager's comments about having so much trouble to finish school because of her pregnancy shows that the government needs to do more to help single mothers raise their children and go to school at the same time. Society needs to change so that it isn't so difficult to finish school and raise a child at the same time.

Posted by: Rae Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:41 PM


Jill's right.
Blane it on Joe Schiedler.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:42 PM


Isn't it disturbing that she would go back in time and abort her child, who she now knows and should love dearly and realize what a blessing that child is?

Would it hurt you to hear your mother say
"I wish I could go back in time and abort you"? I know it would kill me inside.

That's what I think about when I hear that....I think, just imagine how it must feel to be that 16 year old girl....I'm sure she knows it. Her mother's actions most likely reflect that feeling. and if she is saying it to a complete stranger, I do not find it difficult to believe that she would say it somewhere where her daughter was within earshot at some time. It really saddens me that mothers out there would think their education is so much more important than their child.

Posted by: Bethany Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 1:51 PM


Rae,

Society needs to change so that it isn't so difficult to finish school and raise a child at the same time.

I agree. But I do not think that in the mean time we should be ending childrens lives. One does not saction the other.

I can believe, nay, I DO believe that we should help women in crisis pregnancies AND I believe that abortion is wrong.

This is the problem tho. Our society believes, or at least appears to believe, that there is no difference between rutting and making love. One takes, and the other gives. One is purely selfish and one is life-giving. This is why we get so worked up about abstinence. Until we can understand that our "loose" attitude toward sex leads to a "loose" attitude toward children, all the monetary help in the world is not going to "fix" the problem. The problem is deeper. We have lost the awe and respect due to the act of intercourse and what it results in and turned it into a pastime akin to playing video games or watching a movie. The result being nobody wants to take responsibility for what it leads to. Human life.

I know the abstinence thing sets your teeth on edge, but surely you can see the wisdom in admitting that if love-making was viewed as a higher form of human expression than just pleasure seeking, many of these pregnancies would not occur to begin with.

Helping the occasional crisis pregnancy would go far in stemming abortion. But helping millions of crisis pregnancies would be impossible. And then we would have the problem of millions of single mothers. The family unit must be viewed as more than just a convenience. It is a necessity if society is to flourish.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 2:04 PM


@MK: I'll have to agree with that, I do believe that sex shouldn't be had indiscriminately (by BOTH genders...) and it should be saved for a long-term, stable relationship (or marriage if that is your prerogative), but of course, these are just my beliefs and as much as I'd like other people to share them, I can't force them on people. :)

I do think by making unwed pregnancies less taboo and less frowned upon by genuinely trying to support these women, I think there would be fewer problems. I also think people ought to be taught the responsibilities that come with having sex as well and that by having sex and getting pregnant there can be problems. I dunno, something like that.

Posted by: Rae Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 2:13 PM


You said that very well Rae.
We could never make sex outside of marriage illegal, and truthfully I don't think we'd want to. God gave us free will and it's not my job to take that away.

The only reason we interfere when it comes to the abortion issue is that harm is coming to another person and no one is stopping it.

The only problem I have with homosexuality is that it is being taught as a "choice" yet we are told that it is not a choice but genetic. Either way, telling 3rd graders that it is a viable option is not the same as recognizing the dignity of someone who doesn't really have a choice.

If a person is truly born homosexual then he is granted every dignity that I, or you, or anyone else is.

But it's being promoted as a choice in lifestyle.
And it's being presented to children who are way to young to understand the political battle that is going on. Equal rights? Of course. But special rights is a different thing. I don't want third graders knowing what a heterosexual is let alone that there are other ways of being.

And I don't think that it's fair to use children as pawns and weapons in this fight.

It's like divorced parents using the children to stick it to the other side...it's just wrong.

You want to be gay, be gay. You say you're born gay, so be it.

But leave the children out of it.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 2:37 PM


Could you imagine whar the child of this person would feel like if he or she heard the mom say that she would have aborted?

Guess it's like saying, "Hey, if I could get away with it I'd kill my teenager".

This is the character of the type of people that work at PP.

Should it surprise any of us pro-lifers?

Posted by: His Man Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 3:17 PM


Rae: "But the PP manager's comments about having so much trouble to finish school because of her pregnancy shows that the government needs to do more to help single mothers raise their children and go to school at the same time. Society needs to change so that it isn't so difficult to finish school and raise a child at the same time"


You have an excuse for everything don't you? You liberals always want to blame someone else, it's always somebody elses fault. give me a break!

Posted by: jasper Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 3:46 PM


"But the PP manager's comments about having so much trouble to finish school because of her pregnancy shows that the government needs to do more to help single mothers raise their children and go to school at the same time. Society needs to change so that it isn't so difficult to finish school and raise a child at the same time."

Actually, I'd like to see the resurrection of opprobrium for single motherhood, coupled with exile of the siring fathers to tbe moon.

;-)

Hey, it would work! The space shots would be expensive, though . . .

Posted by: rasqual Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 3:50 PM


Rae -

"As far as I know (which apparently, isn't a lot) recording somebody's voice without their permission is illegal, so by recording the woman at the PP without her permission the makers of this film are pretty much vulnerable to being arrested or sued. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though."

I didn't watch the video so I don't know, but if you have a Private detective liscense you can tape all you want. It is part of the job. Also, anyone can video tape or tape record anyone at any time on public property. What they cannot do is make money off of it without your permission. Also, some states have privacy laws which would protect your face being shown, but your voice is fair game as long as your name isn't released, but then that goes state by state.

Why do I know this you may ask? I did some writing for a private detective agencies website and my payment was getting a tour of the place and talking to the investigators. It was AWSOME! They have a camera that is built into the petal of a fake flower! I was in shock. I felt like I was in a 007 movie or something.

But I do think the point is being missed. PP is covering up crimes. Crimes that many women are the victim. This is not a company that wants to protect women. It is a company that wants to exploit women.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 4:11 PM


"And I don't think that it's fair to use children as pawns and weapons in this fight."

Hmm...I am put in mind of pro-lifers waving photos of their kids around and saying something to the effect of "Look he's beautiful, she's my life, how could you abort this?!?!?!"

Question...if homosexuality was something you were BORN with (meaning, God or whoever you believe in made you that way), will you still go to hell?

Posted by: Stephanie at May 4, 2007 4:42 PM


Jasper,

Be careful about making generalizations about liberals. I believe prettyinpink considers herself a liberal and also pro-life. It bodes well not to disrespect people who are on your own side.

Posted by: JK at May 4, 2007 5:14 PM


Stephanie, we are all born with predisposition to sin. Someone might be taken to wrath for example. Just because we are "born that way" doesn't make it less sinful. Indeed, these inborn flaws are the result of sin.


As far as society supporting women/children, again I point to feminists for life. This is EXACTLY what they do.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 5:15 PM


Lauren: Yay! Feminists for life!

JK: Yes, I don't think pro-life should be a liberal or conservative issue, frankly. There will always be people who want to be devisive about it, though.

It's like, when I want to discuss global warming, I"m labeled as a "gullible liberal," even if they know nothing about me. Since when was the environment a liberal/conservative issue? Isn't it something we should all join together to help out with?
Al Gore hasn't helped though. His intentions are good, but his movie was political, which didn't help unify people on the issue.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 5:28 PM


Question: who was taping the conversation? Was it the boyfriend? The girl? Was the room bugged?

Not that it makes a huge difference, just curious.

I do agree with Rae though about the trash, I mean, my mother is a microbiologist so I have been pretty conscious about germs and EW.. talk about unsanitary!

If they want to do it, fine, the scene looking through the trash did kind of freak me out!

That lady, UGH. Aren't they supposed to present all options before an abortion instead of persuading them? The woman was manipulating them..

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 5:33 PM


Stephanie,

Question...if homosexuality was something you were BORN with (meaning, God or whoever you believe in made you that way), will you still go to hell?

I think we've covered this before.
Maybe a hundred times.
But...

Nobody goes to hell for who they are.
They go to hell for the choices they make.
And one of the choices they make is to go to hell.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 7:00 PM


Lauren,
Is that a yes or no?

MK,
Sorry. I don't have the time nor the inclination to go back and read every single post of every single topic to find where you've discussed this.

So basically, if you were born homosexual, you can either choose heaven by ignoring who you really are, or choose hell by staying true to yourself?

Posted by: Stephanie at May 4, 2007 7:07 PM


Stephany, where you end up is your choice. We can embrace our inborn sinful nature, or choose to lay them down and follow God.

For example: My inborn sin is sloth. I could lay around all day, in relative diasrray (clothes everywhere ect.) and be perfectly happy. In fact, I am probably the happiest when I *can* simply lay around all day. I know that this is sinful. Just *as* sinful in the terms of judgement as homosexuality. I choose to walk with God and abandon my slothful nature. My flesh would be much happier if I just let everything go, but my spirit would parish.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 7:23 PM


I have heard that Planned Barrenhood has to try to SELL abortions. That's part of their job. More proof. Let's not forget that they protect rapists too.

Posted by: Heather4life at May 4, 2007 7:48 PM


So basically, if you were born homosexual, you can either choose heaven by ignoring who you really are, or choose hell by staying true to yourself?

No, you can choose heaven by dealing with who you are, or you can choose hell by giving in to your inclination towards a particular sinful behavior.

You can celebrate who you are by embracing the positives or abuse who you are by giving into the negatives.

Your choice.
mk

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 7:50 PM


Stephanie,

MK,
Sorry. I don't have the time nor the inclination to go back and read every single post of every single topic to find where you've discussed this.

Funny how you don't have the time or the inclination, but you expect me to take the time out to explain, yet again, a very complicated thought process. I wonder, do you have the time to read our answers?

mk

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 7:52 PM


"Jasper, Be careful about making generalizations about liberals."

No, I won't. These are the people who got us 47,000,000 babies dead in the first place.

Not 1 democrat running for President is pro-life.

Posted by: jasper at May 4, 2007 8:39 PM


So...all non-Republicans are pro-choice? And all Republicans are pro-life?

Playing along pary lines is dangerous.

Criticize the politicians all you want but when you generalize the population as a whole it only does you a disservice to your intelligence.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 9:40 PM


*party

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 4, 2007 9:49 PM


"You have an excuse for everything don't you? You liberals always want to blame someone else, it's always somebody elses fault. give me a break!"


Jasper: Please, get over yourself. No, it's not an excuse at all, and more often than not, society IS to blame for many of people's problems. Of course, it is also sometimes the person's own fault, I'm not denying that. BUT, I think it is important to help everybody get an education and if that means helping single mothers pay for childcare so they can attend university then I think that is money well-spent by the government. After all, the better education the mother gets, the child is more likely to have a better quality of life and also go on to school.

And I am honestly getting sick of the "you liberals" thing...liberalism is NOT a bad thing, I've said it time and time again, without liberalism the United States would not exist.

Posted by: Rae at May 4, 2007 11:39 PM


I'll bet the counselor doesn't even have a 16 year old daughter.

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 7:08 AM


Its interesting to note that Republicans and Democrats have been held to a different standard concerning the abortion issue. Republicans were expected to be a "big tent", tolerant of all ideologies where abortion was concerned. It was considered acceptable for Democrats to be totally intolerant of any pro-lifers in their ranks and they were. At one Democrat convention, I can't remember the year, Gov. Casey of Pennsylvania was denied the right to speak because of his pro-life views. We heard no howling about the intolerance of the Democrats.
Its so typical that those who lecture the rest of us peasantry on the importance of tolerance are the people most blind to their own.

Rae,

You may be too young to remember, but in the mid-1960s, President Lyndon Johnson initiated the "Great Society" supposedly to eradicate poverty. It became a failure that cost the taxpayers trillions. "Society's fault" has all too often been used to defend the most despicable crimes and turn their perpetrators loose, where they (gasp) continue to prey on the innocent. I understand many of the law-abiding residents of out cities are fed up with this. Its also become a convenient excuse for failure.

Posted by: Mary at May 5, 2007 7:30 AM


Rae,

I would like to add that those who "understood" criminals and preached "society's fault" mostly did so from Manhattan penthouses or mansions in gated communities where they were a very comfortable distance from crime and violence, thus a popular term "limousine liberal" came into being. Pretty much the same bunch who preach to us on the environment and our evil SUVs, but who's idea of mass transit is five people in a stretch limousine.

Posted by: Mary at May 5, 2007 8:05 AM


Rae -

"And I am honestly getting sick of the "you liberals" thing...liberalism is NOT a bad thing, I've said it time and time again, without liberalism the United States would not exist."

I have been guilty of this. Yet, I do agree with you. I am pro-life so in major US elections I always vote for the pro-life republicans because they are the ones that can influence a change in laws. But locally, I am about to vote democrate for our mayor and other local positions. Locally, I tend to vote for the person who wants to do something about the polution from the factories around here and clean up the air and that is usually a democrate.

It aint easy being a moderate pro-life enviromentalist who wants animal rights but hates PETA! Maybe this is why I am always confused.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 8:16 AM


Based on God's Word, homosexuality is sinful.

So is drunkeness, theivery, adultery and fornication, etc.

People are born with a sin nature. If you don't believe me just look around. We all sin, even Christians.

Here's the difference: Christians realize that they are in a battle with their own flesh. While our spirits have been reborn and are with Christ in the heavenly places, the old sin nature tries to maintain control. Every Christian struggles with this. Paul writes about his own struggles with this in the book of Romans and concludes that Christ is his answer.

Once someone knows that their behavior is sinful, i.e., homosexuality, sexual addiction, alcoholism, etc., they then have the responsibility to fight that behavior with all their might to God's glory. God will honor that mindset with a changed heart and victory over sin.

The Old Testament is full of stories of how his people overcame their enemies. Metaphorically, the enemies of each of us are the enemies of immoral sex, drunkeness, homossexaulity, rage, hate, resentment, fear, all of which were defeated by the death of Christ on the cross. With God's help and courage and persaverance and love these giants in our lives can all be defeated.

When one refuses to change, after receiving the knowledge of the truth, they are telling God to take a hike, and that's what He does, waiting and watching in the distance with open arms and eyes full of tears. In the spiritual world, to be separated from God is hell and likened to an eternal fire. God will not compromise his integrity for anyone, however, to keep His integrity He gave a way out of this dilemma for sinners, by His own Son's death on the cross.

I urge all who need to change their hearts of rebellion towards a God that loves them fully and unconditionally make decision to seek God with all their hearts, minds, and souls. For this alone is the single greatest act of self love one can do.

I believe that when a person embraces Christ, they then realize His thoughts towards all life, and can become no other way than pro-life.

May you find Him.

Posted by: His Man Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 8:28 AM


Be careful Valerie, enviornmental activist
Sheryl Crow has suggested that we be limited to one square of toilet paper, except in those "pesky" situations about which she thankfully did not elaborate. I suppose that since its possible for people, mostly Al Gore and other millionaires and Hollywood hobnobs who preach to us, to now buy "carbon credits" to justify using more than their fair share of energy, one could also buy "toilet paper credits" as well to justify using more than one's fair square of toilet paper. For the rest of us its back to corn cobs.

Posted by: Mary at May 5, 2007 8:30 AM


Sheryl Crow.... That is laughable!!!! I loved Leno's come back joke!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 8:40 AM


Mary, I'm LOL at the corn cob thing!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 8:42 AM


Valerie, I look forward to the day that environmental issues will be an issue addressed by everyone instead of it being treated as a liberal/conservative issue.
I think Al Gore is partly guilty of making it that way. His movie got very political at times.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 11:01 AM


1 square of toilet paper? Maybe the toilet paper she buys has bigger squares? Doesn't she know there is recycled TP? I never listen to the hollywoodites when it comes to this. John Travolta flies his own jet for just him and then has the nerve to tell us that we need to buy the hybrid cars that are about as expensive as a house!

They just want us to do all the things necessary to clean up the environment, then they won't have to worry about how much damage they do.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 12:35 PM


Remember the Seinfeld episode. Elaine in the bathroom stall. Can you spare a square? LOL!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 12:47 PM


MK,

I indeed do read your responses, as they are on the front page and easily accessible. It would be silly of me to ask a question and not read the response, don't you think?

I will take the time to answer your posts, and I appreciate that you do the same for me.

What I will NOT do, however, is fish through months and months of articles, probbaly 100+ comments each, to see where you have discussed this before.

Posted by: Stephanie at May 5, 2007 12:50 PM


Did she ask you to?

Posted by: Bethany Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 12:51 PM


Valerie,

I understand John Travolta has a fleet of 5 jets! Maybe the squares Sheryl buys are the size of baseball diamonds. Also, I believe TP is biodegradable, so what's the issue? Besides, who would want or have the unenviable job of monitoring the use of toilet paper? Whatever, just don't shake hands with Sheryl.
Also, by buying "carbon credits" those who preach to us can continue their energy burning lifestyle with a clear conscience, such as buying "indulgences" in the middle ages allowed you to sin to your heart's content.

Posted by: Mary at May 5, 2007 1:47 PM


I still say that these Hollywood stars should stick to acting, singing, dancing, etc. Please stop giving us advice. I swear when you have everything $ can buy, you must get really bored!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 5:10 PM


Plus many superstars have a high-school education, at best. About the only advice I'd ask them for would be what I should do if I ever have too much money. They might know about what ridiculous expeses I can donate my cash to, if need be.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 5:36 PM


Comedy Central video

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 5:38 PM


PiP, Remember when Paramount Pictures fired Tom Cruise? Did you hear David Letterman's joke?[giggling as I type]

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 5:44 PM


Nope, what was it?

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 5:54 PM


He said that after Tom got word that he'd been fired, he called Brooke Shields to see if he could have some of her antidepressants.

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 5:58 PM


haha aww

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 6:01 PM


What is this that you posted? I am going to watch in a few. Loved the Dave Chapell[sp?] stuff you posted. I was rolling!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 6:04 PM


OOOOOWWWW, That was hilarious!

Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 6:10 PM


; )

Thought it fit the discussion..

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 6:15 PM


PIP that was soooo funny! :D My husband and I were cracking up.

Posted by: Bethany Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 7:00 PM


Back in Black is perhaps my favorite segment on the Daily Show. Lewis Black has a way of cutting right through the crap!

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 5, 2007 7:22 PM


"Playing along pary lines is dangerous."

"Criticize the politicians all you want but when you generalize the population as a whole it only does you a disservice to your intelligence."

Ok professor, thank-you.

Posted by: jasper at May 5, 2007 9:55 PM


The Daily Show:
I think that punk John Stewart is the worst thing for polictics, all he has is his cynical, stupid remarks, this little wimp should go back to school.

I pefer Rush Limbaugh (plus he's actually funny)

Posted by: jasper at May 5, 2007 10:32 PM


Jasper, I calls em like I sees em..

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 12:31 AM


PIP,

Very Funny...
Thanks!

mk

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 6:03 AM


MK,

"We could never make sex outside of marriage illegal..."

It is in Georgia...

Posted by: SamanthaT at May 6, 2007 8:14 AM


Jasper, as Valerie and I discussed before, your GOP candidate Mitt Romney is a Republican who was elected senator as well as governor with pro-choice views and who has only recently come over to pro-life. This public transformation is proof that neither party is one hundred per cent pro-choice or pro-life. You keep blaming "liberals" for the abortion situation (without recognizing the fact that the same label was attributed to those who led the American Revolution) and fail to accept any responsibility on the part of the pro-life camp. The fact is that abortion would not be a reality if all of America, liberal and conservative, had not allowed it so.

Posted by: SamanthaT at May 6, 2007 8:25 AM


"all of America, liberal and conservative, had not allowed it so."

SO true! The conservatives just sit around and scratch their backsides when it comes to abortion. Politicians only care about is their next election, not the people.


Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 9:04 AM


It aint easy being a moderate pro-life enviromentalist who wants animal rights but hates PETA!

I think Ive found my soulmate....

Posted by: SamanthaT at May 6, 2007 9:31 AM


Hear, hear, Val.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 10:53 AM


Okay, girls, I just got back from my very first mass (I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about, since so many active pro-lifers tend to be Catholic and so many pro-choicers former Catholics) and I have to say that I dont get it. There were some boys walking around in robes, and the preacher (?) just prayed a looooot...no sermon, no altar call, no invitation to join the church. And when they "greet" one another, why dont they talk? They just say "peace be with you" to each other. How are you going to get to know the new people if you dont even ask them their names? I know you have to go to some church history classes or something to know what all those things are in those little shelves cut out of the wall, but it was strange to me. And the preacher, he drank all the leftover wine! But MK, out of respect for you Catholics, I did not take communion, even tho I feel like I am perfectly within my rights to do so.

Posted by: SamanthaT at May 6, 2007 11:38 AM


I've never been in a Catholic service myself, but the ones I've seen on TV were somewhat like that (and they spoke in latin- don't know if that's a regular church service or not)... I am kind of confused about it too....I'm so used to the way we do it at our church so it's hard for me to understand.

Posted by: Bethany Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 1:51 PM


Samanatha,

I can see how you might think the whole thing was a little weird...

Let's start with the greeting each other and the handshake of peace.

If you went to a movie, you might meet out in front of the theatre, or even chat quietly during the previews, but once the movie started, you would show respect and not talk till intermission or the end of the movie.

Oddly enough, the church is now talking about moving this practice to a different place in the mass.

You need to understand that the mass is broken into two parts. The celebration of the liturgy and the celebration of the Eucharist.

The first part is hearing the word of God, in the form of three readings. One from the old testament, one from the old or the new, and one from the Gospel. Then the priest gives a "homily" or a sermon. After this the gifts of bread and wine are brought up to the altar signifying the beginning of the Eucharistic Celebration. The priest receives the gifts and reads the words of the consecration over them, changing them into the actual body and blood of Jesus. When you go up to receive communion the priest (not preacher) offers you the host and says the words "The Body Of Christ" at which point you respond "Amen". This amen is your end of the covenant. You are saying, "Yes, I believe this truly is the Body of our Lord".

So much more goes on but this is the absolute bare minimum outline...

It's unlike a protestant service because in these churches the entire service is a "communion". It's all about the people. In the Catholic service then entire procedure is leading up to the "communion". This is why we don't hold hands when we say the "Lord's Prayer" . For us, this is jumping the gun. We have not yet reached the point in the mass where we all "become" one. The altar is likened to a marital bed. The same union that takes place between a man and wife on their wedding night takes place with Jesus at the altar. We are, figuratively and literally, consummating our union with Him. We, being the church, and that is when we (the people) become one (commune) and join Him at the table..

As for those little things in the wall...I'm not sure, but it sounds like relics from the saints. You'd love it! These would be bones and pieces of clothing saved from different saints and placed in little glass thingamabobbys.

Tell me the name of the church and where it was and I'll see what I can find out.

I love to walk in the woods. But the first time that I did it, all I got was a nice sense of peace from being there. I didn't know anything about the anmimals or the trees or the flowers...but I loved the "ambience" so I kept going back. After 30 years, I can now name more than half the flowers and animals that I see. Ferns, and buttercups and 13 striped ground squirrels and Laurel...none of which I could have done if I had given up. Sometimes you have to do something over and over so that bit by bit you come to understand what it really is. The forest is different in the morning than the evening. Different in the winter than the summer. Different in the rain than the sunshine. To fully experience it, you must walk through it over and over. When you go to mass, the Truth is being revealed to you. If you could understand it ALL in one visit, it wouldn't be worth very much, would it. It's deep and complicated, yet simple all at the same time. Just like the woods. Or a piece of art. The first time you look at it you can't appreciate it.
You have to "visit" it a number of times before you really begin to "see" it.


I hope you go back again, this time with a knowledgeable friend...or at the very least something that explains whats going on.

If you're really serious, I'll put together a reading list for you. If you're just gettin' your toes wet, then I'll continue to pray. If you seek the truth, you'll find the truth.

It was very astute of you to notice that so many pro-choicers are ex-catholics.

Satan always strikes at the heart and head and appealing to these girls intellects then hardening their hearts was a sneaky way of getting them to hate their church...it's a shame really, because so many of these girls (and boys/men) are fighters. And strong. As you are yourself. Wouldn't it be great to have all of you fighting for the right things.

God Bless,
You're really quite brave,
mary kay

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 1:56 PM


Samantha -

To add to MK's response. The Priest drank all the wine because it is the blood of Christ at that point. It would be kinda tacky to just pour him down the drain, don't ya think? ;-)

It takes awhile. They also don't talk in church out of respect because the tabernacle is usually kept in by the alter. The tabernacle is where left over eucharist is kept. Which means it has already been blessed and is Christ among us.

You will notice that many masses will have a breakfast for everyone, or coffee and donuts for afterwards. This is where the meet and greet is. And good food if the Knights of Columbus are sponsering it that morning!

Also, you will also notice that a Catholic Church is never empty. There is always something going on at any given time or day; this is the community coming together in different ways. Praying the Rosery, meeting for ministry work, etc.

Try to see if you can find a sponser that can go over some things with you if you are still interested. I took a friend of mine and the only thing she said to me was "Where were the da** cue cards! How do you know what to say and when to sit?"

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 2:58 PM


"The conservatives just sit around and scratch their backsides when it comes to abortion"

How ignorant...not true Valerie, you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in congress. Conservatives have sponsered all of these bill below. If it were't for conservatives none of these bills would've got passed. Go-ahead, keep on voting for democrats ( your not pro-life if you do, that's for sure)


Abortion in military medical facilities
Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act
Unborn Victims of Violence Act
Born-Alive Infants Protection Act
The Pain of the Unborn Child

"You keep blaming "liberals" for the abortion situation."

Please read up on Roe V. Wade and how liberals manufactured a constitional right to allow abortion. Read about Norma McCorvey, aka "Jane Roe". She's pro-life and was manipulated by liberal lawyers.

about the catholic mass:
We gather together to pray and ask forgiveness in preparation to meet Christ in the sacrament of the Eucharist. We also celebrate our unity with him, and our unity with each other in faith, by gathering together as a congregation.

I believe Catholic charities is one the biggest charitable organizations in the world.

Posted by: jasper at May 6, 2007 8:22 PM


Jasper -

If memory serves on what the Republican have passed was hush hush and no one talked about it. What about embryotic stem cell research? What about 1st trimester abortion? What about stopping Planned Parenthood from protecting pediphiles and rapist? What about getting the public aware of abortionist like Tiller the Killer? What about makeing the public aware of clinics like the MMA in New Jersey? What about making the public aware of abortion clinics like the one that killed the live baby and hid the body on the roof in florida? No offense, but the majority of abortions are not performed on military bases (considering military women can just walk outside of base and still get an abortion). And the other ones you mentioned, although great and wonderful, affect less than 10% of the abortions in this country. The reasons they go for those is because even the democratic "base" agrees with them. The republicans do not and have not done anything to really stop the majority of babies being murdered. Sorry, but they are scratching their backsides and patting themselves on the back for their limited work. Also, a good number of those bills were pushed through because of people like Jill who keep it in their faces. If given the choice, they would back away.

And according to you I'm not pro-life if I vote democrate in my LOCAL elections? Please explain that one to me. I live in a county where there are no Planned Parenthoods, no abortion clinics and about 5 CPC's. Pro-life,Pro-choice never even comes up in our LOCAL elections because it doesn't affect us LOCALLY. I am NOT going to vote for the current mayor who happens to be republican because he has put our city in a huge deficit. The town I live in has one of the best public school systems in the state and he wants all the "lower class" people out of town. We have already had several developers try to force us to sell our house to them for under value so they can put up $200,000 - $300,000 condo's and townhomes. 5-6 townhomes and condos per 1 lot. This area is the only area we can afford and keep my son - who has socail delay's - in a school system that can actually help. So, I suggest you get off your high horse and stop accusing people of something there not; considering you don't even know the story. As stated above, during NATIONAL elections I always vote pro-life republican. Because they can (if they ever want to)acutally stop this barbaric procedure.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 8:45 PM


"The reasons they go for those is because even the democratic "base" agrees with them."

no, the democrat base does not agree with them.

"Also, a good number of those bills were pushed through because of people like Jill who keep it in their faces."

yes, that's true.

"This area is the only area we can afford and keep my son - who has socail delay's - in a school system that can actually help. So, I suggest you get off your high horse and stop accusing people of something there not"

I hope your son is doing better (he has a good mom from what I can see), my son has epilepsy and suffers from seizures, he too gets extra help from the school.

... I'm refering to National, Senate, US congress elections.

Posted by: jasper at May 6, 2007 9:23 PM


"no, the democrat base does not agree with them"

Actually, yes they do. The "base" felt that partial birth abortion ban and born alive infants needed to go through. It was the politicians and the far lefts that fought them.

My son is doing better. He was born 9 weeks early which is the cause for the delay. We did just get some good news; although he shows autistic symptoms, he doesn't have autism. He is 'outgrowing' the symptoms and the school is putting him in regular kindergarten. We thought he would have to go to a special school.
Epilepsy is so hard. Do any medications work. I had a friend growing up that had seizures, I'm assuming from epilepsy. It was scarey to see a seizure.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 6, 2007 10:12 PM


I glad to hear your son is doing better, (he's going to do fine). I think sometimes they "over-analyze" children. My neihbor's daughter was diagnosed with PDD (mild autism), but she plays with my son and seems like normal 6 year old to me.

My son takes depakote, it works but it can make him tired. The doctor thinks he may grow out of it.

.. on the politics, the base is moving more and more to the left. and yes, you're right the far-left does control the democrat politicians. Not a party I would want to support. Local elections are different, I agree.

Posted by: jasper at May 6, 2007 10:50 PM


Valerie,

By the way,

I read your post on abstinance. The Democrat Governor (Deval Patrick) here in Massachusetts just cancelled the federally funded abstince teaching program, the one that Mitt Romney (Republican) had supported.

Posted by: jasper at May 6, 2007 10:56 PM


Jasper, Daily Show and Jon Stewart is politics perfected. You don't like him because he makes your guy Bush look like an idiot.

Posted by: Randy at May 6, 2007 11:45 PM


MK~
The name of the church is
Saint Luke The Evangelist Catholic Church
91 North Park Street
Dahlonega, Georgia 30533
Phone: 706-864-4779
Fax: 706-864-2536
Web Site: www.stlukercc.org

So now with the explanation things make more sense! Thanks yall! Okay, so I guess the homily was the little bit about how Mary's favorite color is blue, which was revealed thru personal communication with her, and about how Catholics do not worship her? And did he say that May is the month of Mary? Id really be interested in the reading, and I will see what I can do about finding out who can help me here. I am wondering why you guys kneel on those little things instead of just going up to the altar? And do you say the Apostle's Creed, because it was similar to our Apostle's Creed (which oddly enough says "...I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church...")? How do you know what verses they are reading? Why didnt I see anyone with a Bible? And was it rude of me to say "hi" to that little man who greeted me with the peace thing?

Oh, PS, when I took Old and New Testaments with a Methodist minister, we did the whole greet thing, as well. In OT, it was "Shalom." "Shalom lekah."
In NT its "Eirene." "Eirene humin." Those mean "peace be with you" "and also with you" in Hebrew and Greek, respectively. Did you know that the name Irene is taken from the Greek word Eirene which is the translation of Shalom?

Okay, two more. Why does the priest drink all the wine instead of just putting it in the cabinet with the bread? It seems like he might get a little buzzed, especially if he is at one of those churches where they have several masses a day. And why do some people drink the wine, and some people just eat the host?

Posted by: SamanthaT at May 7, 2007 1:05 AM


Wow,

Samantha,

I am sooo totally impressed. You noticed a lot of details!

We kneel on the "kneelers" because it is believed that kneeling is a pose used in deep prayer, submission, obedience and reverence. We kneel during the consecration. (When the bread and wine are being turned into the body and blood) There should be a missalette in the pew or at the front of the church for you to follow along in. We don't read from the bible because the readings have already been picked out and are being read in every Catholic church in the world. If you want to read the bible (and I often do) you can find an adoration chapel where Jesus is exposed in a Monstrance. There you can sit and "commune" with Him in person and at your leisure...

Unfortunately, even within the Catholic Church there is tons of dissension and you have to be really careful which church you go to. Many churches do things that are just plain not right. Or they border on "not right". Some churches no longer have kneelers. (I just kneel on the floor) Some churches put Jesus in the Tabernacle in some hidden place instead of in a prominent place (like behind the altar). I even saw a video where the folks wore Halloween costumes to mass, and a witch gave out communion, a devil read the first reading and the priest was Barney...This is wrong on soooo many levels.

Some churches say you can go to confession as a group. Some say you can receive communion no matter what religion you are. Both are grieviously WRONG!

This is why we have the Catechism and the Pope.
So that there are no misunderstandings. What is expected in one church is expected in all...

The word Catholic actually means universal. If I went to Mass in Japan yesterday, I heard the exact same readings. Or France, or the Pilippines or New Jersey. The Homily would be different, the songs would be different, but everything else would be the same. The mass is the mass is the mass...

Be careful when you pick a church. Look around. Ask questions. If you're going to go to a Catholic church then you might as well make sure that it's a "Kosher" Catholic church...otherwise you should just go to a protestant church and be done with it.

Yes, May is the month of Mary. No, we do not worship her. We only recognize three divine beings and they are all GOD. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But we do understand Mary's role as the "New Eve", as the Mother Of God and as the bride of the church. Lots of Marital imagery in the church. Mary is the "church" just as we are the church. She is the holy spirits spouse just as we are Jesus' spouse. When Jesus says to John, "Here is your mother" He isn't just giving John a mother, He is giving her to all of us.

We understand that no son can say no to his mother. If you want your snow shoveled, go to the mother and she'll send over her son...In the same way, going to Mary is a quick way to get to Jesus.

Not that you don't go directly to Jesus, but it helps to have his mum on your side. Like "Hey Mary, if you get a chance will you remind your son about the job I asked Him for?"

In May we crown her as queen of heaven and earth. In Lord of the Rings, Galadriel played a very "Marian" figure. (Tolkien was Catholic and there is much Catholic imagery in his books. Remember the elvin bread? Sound familiar?) There have only been two infallible statements made by popes in the last 200 years. One that Mary was conceived without Original Sin and Two, that she was assumed into heaven, body AND soul. She was never separated from her body...unlike we, who will be given new bodies at the resurrection.

I love her. I can go to her with anything. She is the most awesome of mothers. She understands things from a womans point of view. Not that Jesus doesn't get it, but sometimes it's so nice to just chit-chat with another girl, you know?

As to receiving under both species...
The wine used to be reserved for the priest only.
That changed with vatican II (something else you'll hear alot about) and can now be received by the laity as well as the priest. (Notice I always say received, not taken. Again with the marital comparison...we the church are the female representation...the female body is built to "receive". Jesus is the male representation...the male body is designed to "give"...Jesus gives himself, we receive. Just like the marital bed. The most intimate of unions...and another example of being created in HIS IMAGE...He made them male and female. He made them givers and receivers...see?

Anyway, you do not need to receive under both species (bread AND wine) to fully receive Him. Some people (usually of the older generation) feel uncomfortable doing this since it was a no-no in their time. Then again many old people do receive the blood, because they are the generation that truly "gets" the church. Many younger people were "formed" in the 70's, post vatican II (which did a number on the church)and don't truly understand what they are doing...They often don't even believe in the "True Presence" As you can see, even the Catholic Church has its faults!

You used to have to go up to the Communion Rail and kneel down to receive communion. The "guys in the robes" are altar boys/girls. Servers. They are there to assist the priest. They used to be boys that were studying to become priests. They would hold a paten (a round gold dish) under your chin in case Jesus was dropped. It was that reverent.

We've lost a lot of that. On Good Friday I went to a church where the priest was handling the consecrated hosts so roughly that one of them went flying through the air like a tiddlywink...There went Jesus summersaulting through the air and the priest didn't pick Him up for five minutes. I cried. I was so mad!

Now you may receive Him either on the tongue (the old way) or in the hand (post vatican II) I prefer to receive Him on the tounge. You get a lot of strange looks, even from the priests in your more "modern" churches, but I just personally feel that not enough reverence is shown Him since we started taking Him in our hands. There is NOTHING wrong with taking Him in your hands. It's a completely personal thing.

Pre-vatican II the mass was said completely in Latin. Pope Benedict has just made it possible to say mass that way again without special permission. While I find Latin beautiful, I prefer to hear every word of every mass so that I can fully immerse myself. Again, personal taste.

As to why you don't store the wine, I think it has more to do with the possibility of spillage than anything. I'll do some research and make sure!

I'm sooooo dang proud of you....You are AMAZING!
Bless You, Bless You, Bless You...

Mary Kay

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 6:20 AM


This was from your churches website on adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Margaret Mary was one of those "visionaries" we have talked about...these are promises made through her from Jesus in the image of the "Sacred Heart" for people who adore Him in the Eucharist...

The Promises of the Sacred Heart of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary

(1) "I will give them all the graces necessary in their state of life.
(2) I will establish peace in their homes.
(3) I will comfort them in all their afflictions.
(4) I will be their secure refuge during life, and above all, in death.
(5) I will bestow abundant blessings upon all their undertakings.
(6) Sinners will find in my Heart the source and infinite ocean of mercy.
(7) Lukewarm souls shall become fervent.
(8) Fervent souls shall quickly mount to high perfection.
(9) I will bless every place in which an image of my Heart is exposed and honored.
(10) I will give to priests the gift of touching the most hardened hearts.
(11) Those who shall promote this devotion shall have their names written in my Heart.
(12) I promise you in the excessive mercy of my Heart that my all-powerful love will grant to all those who receive Holy Communion on the First Fridays in nine consecutive months the grace of final perseverance; they shall not die in my disgrace, nor without receiving their sacraments. My divine Heart shall be their safe refuge in this last moment."

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 6:23 AM


Samantha,

Okay,

Just checked out your church...Looks like a winner. They are in obedience to the pope, have adoration on first fridays and saturdays, have a link to the vatican and seems "Kosher"...find the most conservative priest you can and ask questions. Tons and tons of questions...

The church looks like it was once protestant. It's adorable. How far from Atlanta is it?

mk

Just went back and read this
As one concrete example of what the Georgia Mission Sunday Collection can do, the archdiocese some time ago was able to purchase a Protestant church in Dahlonega. Previously, M ass had been offered in a 20 by 18 foot room in a rented house nearby. Now the growing number of Catholics in the Dahlonega area are proudly identified with their own parish, St. Luke’s.

I thought so...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 6:29 AM


Jasper, interesting. I'm on Lamictal myself. How is depakote working? Good, besides the tiredness? I remember refusing it because weight gain was a side effect, I think. And my doc said that Lamictal is good for JME.

Also, Daily show IS politics perfected. They make fun of both the dems and the repubs (same stuff, different piles). All he does is tell the truth. Jon Stewart hardly has to tell jokes, all he has to do is show the administration what they are, and its hilarious.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 7:06 AM


I really want to say something here before we continue with this dialog...

Jill deserves a lot of credit for letting us have this discussion on her board. She is not a Catholic and while I know that she respects the church, it still says a ton about her character that she has given me permission to entertain your questions uncensored.

Thank you Jill.

In a few, I'll give you my version of the reasons for so many different churches, and why I belong to the Catholic one.

But first, Jill, maybe you could do some "splainin' about yours and why you're there.

Again, Satan wants to break up this little tete a tete and will certainly use your questions about Catholicism to do so if he can.

I don't intend to give him the opportunity! He would like nothing better than to get a fight going between the Catholics and Protestants on this site.

Let's not fall into his hands...

Samantha asked about the Catholic church, so I told her about the Catholic church. I mean absolutely NO DISRESPECT to any other denomination represented on this board.

You are all amazing people, filled with love and FAITH, and the different expressions of it are a reason to celebrate, not fight.

Please do not take any offense at anything that I have said.

I would rather shut my mouth than cause discord among us.

The point of this blog is and must remain "LIFE"...and I will not let anything divide us when it comes to that issue. This is a diversion but it must not interfere with the true purpose of this board...

Peace to all in Christ,
Mary Kay

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 7:10 AM


MK, let me first say the pro-life movement is a great unifier of Protestants and Catholics. Catholics have done most of the heavy lifting to stop abortion abortion since 1973, although Protestants are getting much better lately.

So in my pro-life work I focus on that which we have in common. I only debate the areas of disagreement with Catholic friends who I know can handle it like Andrew and formerly Scott, now Bro. Francis. I met both at Priests for Life. We can discuss things and still have a drink and a cigar afterwards.

The areas of disagreement between Protestants and Catholics are over 500 years old and can't be solved. I'll say my foremost disagreement was Luther's foremost disagreement, the topic of being saved by grace alone or grace plus works. And I really, really don't want to get into that, if you don't mind. We simply disagree on what certain Bible verses actually mean.

SamanthaT, I'm very happy you're giving church a try. There are some fantastic Protestant churches in the Atlanta area that would blow you away. Top notch music you would enjoy and identify with and relevant preaching (homilies). If you'd like me to give you some names, let me know.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 7:39 AM


Jill,

I agree completely. I don't want to debate with you either. I'd lose! Seriously, I just am so thrilled that Sam is searching and want to answer all of her questions honestly and frankly. But I DO NOT want to step on any toes.

Let me know if I cross any lines...

Otherwise, share yours and I'll share mine, and as long as Samantha finds her way "home" I'll be thrilled. I'm sure she will be led down the path God wants her on...Just so she stays on the path...

Remember Samantha,
The whole thing is a never ending journey...
which begins with a first step.

Thank you God,
mk

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 8:11 AM


Hi PIP,

Depakote does work good besides the tiredness, although sometimes he does get the "aura" of having a seizure (stomach ache, etc). How is Lamictal working for you. Yes, weight gain is a side effect, but my son can stand to gain a few pounds. Have you had seizures your whole life?


Posted by: jasper Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 8:36 AM


Jill,

Speaking of which, it's has been a while since we smoked a fat one together. Was it DC in 2005?

Posted by: Andrew at May 7, 2007 9:49 AM


Hm. I don't recall the last time but I do recall the infamous first time, at the 2002 NRL convention in Pittsburgh.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 10:02 AM


wow, I thought you guys were talking about smoking something different than cigars.

Which I haven't done in a long time.(it made me too paranoid)

Posted by: jasper Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 10:53 AM


Jasper-
My brother and I inherited it from our dad. So we had the potential to have epilepsy (but my sister doesn't have it). We discovered mine when I almost drowned, and discovered my brother's when he had a seizure at school. Both of us were about 12 then. For some reason though, I got very lucky and obtained a photosensitive epilepsy (none of the other family members have it). That's a lot of fun..

Lamictal has been working pretty well, although recently we've had to experiment with levels (I had a breakthrough seizure last October--fire alarm went off while I was sleeping). I like that it has minimal side effects. The only big one was that it made me sort of an insomniac-so I had to get medication to help counterbalance that. Otherwise, not many problems.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 12:02 PM


Ah yes, who could forget Pittsburgh . . .

I'll be sure to send you one when Cecilia is born.

My motto is: Real pro-lifers smoke cigars.

Posted by: Andrew at May 7, 2007 12:48 PM


PIP,

I'm glad Lamictal is working for you. You're a very inteligent and articulate young lady.

God bless

Posted by: jasper Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 12:54 PM


Greetings Jill and Andrew,

Thanks for your comment Jill about our being able to talk about Catholic-Protestant issues without blowing a gasket.

Our friendship, despite differences, is something very valuable to me and I am very grateful for it.

I hope one of the things that those who support abortion who come to this site experience here is that contrary to the silly caricature of pro-lifers as closed-minded, unfriendly bufoons (There are only a few like that! But this is not typical. Hey, it's a big world out there. . .), I think I can say that most of us deeply care about and indeed want to listen to those who don't agree with us. Fundamental to recognizing the fathomless value of the child in the womb is to see as integral to this very same recognition the infinite value of every human being, at all times and all places. Life is precious no matter how old or young. It's basically as simple as that.


Gosh, it's been a while since I have had a decent stogie. I like your motto Andrew! Perhaps someone could send the converts to the pro-life position that have come forward here a lovely cigar. :)

I am a Catholic Dominican seminarian and am not able to post often on blogs because of the time involved. . . But please know that I am praying for everyone here--for those on both sides of this vitally important issue. May all of our hearts be continually softened (and strengthened--for it takes courage to stand up for the truth) to better recognize the awesome dignity of each and every human being, in the womb or out, as the deeply loved child of God that each one of us is from the first moment of our existence and on into eternity itself.

Posted by: Br. Francis, OP (Scott) at May 7, 2007 5:27 PM


Jasper -

"By the way,

I read your post on abstinance. The Democrat Governor (Deval Patrick) here in Massachusetts just cancelled the federally funded abstince teaching program, the one that Mitt Romney (Republican) had supported."


Sorry - I just saw this. Thanks for visiting! Many states are giving up their abstinence programs. It can't work if everyone says that teens are going to do "it" anyway. The society needs to be involved.

Andrew - cough, cough, choke, aacckkkk!

Br. Francis - Thanks for taking the time to post. I hope you can do it more often. (hint, hint) I do understand the time constraints. In my family if your not a nun, your a priest!... or a deacon, eucharistic minister....... we are just everywhere.

Samantha - One cool think about the Catholic Church is, as MK as said, every church does the same readings. So, if you go out of town, you can go to another church and not miss anything. They even have websites devoted to what times what churches hold what mass. My Dad loves it.

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at May 7, 2007 11:57 PM


Jill:
"I'll say my foremost disagreement was Luther's foremost disagreement, the topic of being saved by grace alone or grace plus works."

Once both camps are outside their catechisms and living their faith in the world, however, this soteriological point of contention dims as both practice their faith -- works -- with equal vigor.

Let's be honest, though -- until 1973 it was ONLY Catholics who took pro-life seriously. The Evangelical wake-up cannot be explained without reference to Koop and Schaeffer.

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2003/NRL01/land.html

I came of age as an Evangelical during that period.

Posted by: rasqual Author Profile Page at May 8, 2007 1:10 PM


Rasqual, I agree. I give Catholics almost complete credit.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at May 8, 2007 3:19 PM


The government should be persuaded to pay for all healthcare

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