AAAWWW, so very sorry to hear this news. God bless this dear man.

Jill, you look so pretty!

I am sick to death over what was done to these poor souls! Jill, thank you for exposing this sickening hospital. I wonder how many other hospitals do the same. Would they ever tell us the truth if they did? Oh, I am heart sick!

Thank you, Ma'am.

I think many, many hospitals are involved in live birth abortions. But HHS doesn't want to spend the $ to find out.

If more Christians took their faith as seriously sa Jerry Falwell and Jill, legal abortion would be a memory, prayer would be allowed in schools, and our country would have God's continued protection over it.

To Mr. Fawell's family: A good man leaves a legacy to his children's children and that Mr. Falwell did. My condolences for your great loss.

Now the question is who will take up the mantle?
God help us, please.

Having perused the photos to which you linked, I must point out how ironic it is that the crux of the pro-choice movement--the institution that performs the abortion--has labeled a pad on a scale with "Remains of Baby." If "baby" is so emotionally connotative that abortive mothers must not hear the word, why would their freshly killed child be so termed by the people who just ripped her apart?

That's one of a million truths they let slip out in the midst of lying, Samantha.

To just think of a naked child lying alone in the dark makes me want to vomit. The tears roll as I wonder; Why is this world so evil? God help us all!

SamanthaT:

What an insight. Brilliant!

Samantha T. Ditto!

Yes, thanks to Falwell we all know that gays, feminists and abortion providers were responsible for 911 and Hurricane Katrina. Now that he's gone, I'm sure that Tinky-Winky - the GAY Teletubby - will be our next president.

Laura, what an awful thing to say.

Laura, not that I expect respect for the dead from many of the pro-aborts on this site, but I do expect to back up inflammatory trash talk with proof. Got any?

Jill, I'm so very sorry.

Samantha, I was looking at that too, and was thinking about how Less said that the medical community wouldn't respect words like "baby" and "fetus". Great point you made.

Laura, you sound like a troll, on this topic and the one about Janet. I am adding you to my mental "Cameron/SOMG" list.

There's no law that says a kid can't pray in school.

And I have great respect for the dead, as many more of my so-called "pro abort" breathren undoubtedly also do.

Laura!

YOMANK

Jill!

YOMANK... which does she need to provide support for; what Falwell did indeed say, or what will become of us in his absence.

I am a pro-choice (not pro-abort) and I have respect for the dead. But I dont think praying in school is a good idea (and yes I remember praying in school before anyone says that I dont remember).

Tinky-Winky Falwell quotes:
http://www.ishipress.com/teletubb.htm

Falwell quotes:
This is probably as bad a day as the court has had on social issues since "Roe v Wade."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, reacting to the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas sodomy case, "Lawrence v. Texas," wherein the high court upheld an individual's (or a couple's) right to privacy; "It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter," said Justice Anthony M Kennedy, for the majority in an opinion "as broad in its constitutional vision as any ever issued by the court," wrote Charles Lane for The Washington Post; in his dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia, an extremist Evangelical Christian, complained that the justices voting to uphold the right to privacy were creating a new constitutional right, that they were not upholding the Constitution, quoted from "Planned Parenthood Federal Action Report" (July, 2003) ††

I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, cited in Cary McMullen, "Falwell: Now Is the Time for Gospel," in the Lakeland (Florida) Ledger (November 12, 2001), quoted from Randy Cassingham, This is True (18 November 2001). Falwell added: "We visit prisoners on death row, and some of them are saved, but we believe their sentences should be carried out because they have a debt to society."

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson agreed, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

I sincerely believe that the collective efforts of many secularists during the past generation, resulting in the expulsion from our schools and from the public square, has left us vulnerable.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, after the 700 Club broadcast wherein he had blamed civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, speaking to The New York Times, quoted from Dick Meyer, "Holy Smoke," CBS News (September 15, 2001)

I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist, [but America's] secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture ... the result is not good.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, backpedaling amidst criticism of his statement blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time -- calling upon God.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, justifying the breech of Constitutional Separation of Religion from Government while blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress.
I am convinced that America can be turned around if we will all get serious about the Master's business. It may be late, but it is never too late to do what is right. We need an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn American back to God. America can be saved!
-- Jerry Falwell, "Moral Majority Report" for September, 1984

It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

There is no separation of church and state. Modern US Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc.
-- Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and Strength

But these things speak evil of those things, verse 10 [reading from Jude] which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Look at the Metropolitan Community Church today, the gay church, almost accepted into the World Council of Churches. Almost, the vote was against them. But they will try again and again until they get in, and the tragedy is that they would get one vote. Because they are spoken of here in Jude as being brute beasts, that is going to the baser lust of the flesh to live immorally, and so Jude describes this as apostasy. But thank God this vile and satanic system will one day be utterly annihilated and there'll be a celebration in heaven.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, "Old Time Gospel Hour" broadcast, March 11, 1984, quoted by Rev Jerry Sloan, "Is Jerry Falwell a liar?" Freedom Writer, September, 1994

The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.
-- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them.
-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, May 17, 1997

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat, quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell"

Dan Moldea, the lead investigator for Larry Flynt's ongoing quest to uncover sexual indiscretions of Republican congressional members, has now admitted he was hired by the law firm defending President Clinton.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, from "The Bizarre Flynt-Clinton Connection," in the January 15, 1999, "Falwell Confidential" fax report to 162,000 members, referring to the firm Williams & Connolly. Dan Moldea responded, "This entire statement is false and misleading, reckless and malicious. It is a complete fabrication." However, the San Diego Union-Tribune picked up the fabrication and ran it as fact. Quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell."

We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

You'll be riding along in an automobile. You'll be the driver perhaps. You're a Christian. There'll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away -- you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes.... Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on ... every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, in his pamphlet, "Nuclear War and the Second Coming of Christ," quoted from Ronnie Dugger,"Does Reagan Expect a Nuclear Armageddon?" in Washington Post Outlook (April 8, 1984)

I don't believe that there should be collective prayer in schools, because of many different beliefs and non beliefs that people hold. But if someone wants to say a quick silent prayer before lunch or before they take a test, that's completely fine, and theres no way that anyone could police those sorts of things. But requiring someone to do so is not right.

JK: I agree, if someone wants to say a prayer before lunch, go ahead it wont bother me any. I had people in my highschool pray. They'd meet before school started (@the flag pole) and pray. They prayed at lunch, before assemblies etc. I never had a problem with that. I do remember in kindergarden being *required* to sing the "Johnny Apple Seed Song" before lunch. You didnt sing it, no lunch for you. That's when I have a problem.

How about muslim kids... should they be allowed to break from classes and go do their prayers every hour... or whatever it is.

There were prayer groups like that at my high school also, and we had Fellowship of Christian Athletes that would have meetings before school once a month.

Singing the Johnny Appleseed song or no lunch? That's harsh for a little kid ;-)

Hey ya'll.

Wow, Midnite, really? The Johnny Apple Seed Song? I can't even think of the melody to that right now.

Also, what does "yomank" mean??

There weren't any Muslims at my high school, so I have no idea. But there are some Muslims who are not as gung ho about praying at an exact time.

YOMANK: You Owe Me A New Keyboard

I just found that out recently myself :-)

Ahhh, thanks JK! I would have never figured that one out.

JK,

Doesn't matter because at the rate things are going all you non-Christian ladies will be wearing head scarves and praying on your knees toward Mecca at the point of a sword cuz there won't be any Chritians around to protect you, they'll be gone, taken away in the Rapture.

Ummm...who said I wasn't a Christian? Certainly not me. I've been going to church since I was born.

JK,

You agree that God taken out of schools was a right thing to do?

You are pro-abortion?

You are pro-homosexual?

I don't believe in forcing religion on anyone who doesn't desire it.

I believe that a woman's uterus is her own business.

I believe that gay people shouldn't be treated like crap because of who they are.

Jerry Falwell,

RIP, he spoke the truth

"Doesn't matter because at the rate things are going all you non-Christian ladies will be wearing head scarves and praying on your knees toward Mecca at the point of a sword cuz there won't be any Chritians around to protect you, they'll be gone, taken away in the Rapture."

What is this all about?

Sometimes, His Man, I get the feeling that you would like to be the one pointing a sword at people's heads and forcing them to pray to God if you had the chance.

"prayer would be allowed in schools"

Prayer is allowed in schools, His Man. I remember Christian groups in my schools would get together before school started and have a morning prayer. It's just not allowed in the classroom, enforced by a teacher (as in, a teacher leading a class prayer).

Robertson []

Falwell [X]

Sharpton []

Phelps []

THREE MORE!

I'd never seen that picture of Herr Falwell. Who's the dude next to him?

I am very rarely a person to speak ill of the dead, but I have no sympathy for that awful awful man. He was an incredibly hateful person and I won't think any better of him in death than in life. I suppose next, Jill, you'll be exalting Rev. Phelps and the WBC?

Troll,troll,everywhere a troll. lalalalala!!

Erin,

You're the hateful one, not Revered Falwell.

jasper,were you the one that posted all of those comments from the pro choice site about the pope?I couldn't remember.

Jasper,

Was that typo intended? Revered Falwell.

jasper, If it was you, I wanted to share something with you about a similar site I had found.

Yes Heather, that was me. Sorry MK, my spelling is not good (Revered too, yes).

Heather, here what open-mined, tolerant people had to say about Rev. Falwell

http://pandagon.net/2007/05/15/the-gates-of-hell-swing-open-and-satan-welcomes-his-beloved-son/

UGH, jasper, You should have seen the site about Mother Theresa. It was unreal! I thought, this has got to be some sort of a sick joke. It wasn't. I think "Let the wretched old hag rot in hell." was the "kindest" remark on the entire site. jasper, I was just sick over this! Who could talk this way and be so evil?

jasper,I'll just bet that you or I could NEVER get a comment on that site you just posted!

I didn’t agree with a lot that Falwell said and done, we didn't run in the same circles. But I don’t think reveling, like some are doing within the blogosphere, concerning his death is appropriate. The rancor and the level of venom being spewed has been so sad, so very sad. It certainly doesn’t give them the moral high ground. How does it make them any better than the Westboro Baptist bunch and what they did at Matthew Shepard’s funeral? Falwell is in the arms of his sweet savior today. May God bring comfort to his grieving friends and family that he leaves behind.

Heather,

I've been on that blog before, they usually ban me after a couple comments because they can't handle the truth. Unlike Jill who lets Cameron stay if he behaves. They really don't care about serious debate, they just like hear themselves spout dirty nasty things.

Yes, Mother Theresa, after all see did her amazing life ( she was rich and gave up everything to serve the poor). But she was pro-life, so they demonize her. Their quite disgraceful, these people. They have hundreds of blogs out there and all they do is traffic in hate. And most of them really do hate this country as well, they're Marxist to the core. I posted some abortion photo's and they started laughing! I ask myself -where did these people come from.

oh yea, Heather, how's your little baby doing? do you have a boy or a girl?

How am I more hateful than that man? He claimed that our society shouldn't tolerate cultural or religious differences, and I haven't heard any single person on here dispute that those quotes, which were posted, were indeed from Falwell's mouth.

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."

This is where people get the support for hate crimes. This is the kind of preaching, that on the side of Islam, causes terrorism. Any form of religious extremism is dangerous- why is it hateful for me to realize that since the beginning of time, the very basis of civilization has been compromise, and people who are completely unwilling to recognize the need for harmony are detrimental to our society?

And by they by, we were not a nation born of Christianity. Have you seen some of the quotes by our founding fathers? Many of them were theistic at best.

One of the first principles our country was founded on was toleration- and it frustrates me to see people so fervently trying to annihilate that ideal.

Erin said "I have no sympathy for that awful awful man"

There is no hate in what Rev.Falwell said, he's reached out to gay people. But, he was against homosexual acts, not the homosexual.

Please don't compare Rev. Falwell with Islamic terroist who are murdering people on a daily basis.

"And by they by, we were not a nation born of Christianity"

another Lie

Yea, the Pilgrams and Puritans:

Pilgrims is the name commonly applied to early settlers of the Plymouth Colony in present-day Massachusetts. Their leadership came from a religious congregation who had fled a volatile political environment in the East Midlands of England for the relative calm of Holland in the Netherlands. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America

A man has died and some of you are rejoicing. This is so sad. It just makes me sick how all the vultures come out when someone dies.

I didn't agree with many things Reverend Falwell stood for, but I have the decency to wait for people who DID like or love him to properly grieve.

How many times have a heard from the very people that are ridiculling Falwell that we shouldn't judge someone just because of what they believe or what they have done?

Hypocrisy anyone?

Here are some quotes from our founding fathers, jasper dear.

“Religions are alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies."

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust."

"The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible."

-George Washington

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

-John Adams

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”

“Original sin is as ridiculous as imputed righteousness.”

“As to Jesus, I have some doubt as to his divinity.”

-Benjamin Franklin

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was apart of the common law.”

“Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal inventions, through all the ages has made of Christendom a slaughterhouse, and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one another.”

-Thomas Jefferson

See? Deism at best. The reason they wanted the separation was because they saw how the church had corrupted England- that's why people left. Yes, the Pilgrims. They settled in Massachusetts. Good for them. How about the man, Lord Baltimore, who established Maryland? It was primarily Catholic, but the very first thing he did was pass the Act of Toleration, which made it a haven for all non-Christians and non-Protestants.

And jasper, honey, Christians kill plenty of people in the name of faith too. Abortion clinic bombings, the killings of homosexuals that I read about almost weekly in Georgia when I lived there, and from the start of Christianity as a large religion, there have been the Crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts. Compared to the history of Islam- where a massive amount of our modern day science and technology was born, actually- they have been much more peaceful than Christians.

Valerie, I am not rejoicing in his death. I am simply not keeping my mouth closed about the fact that I will not miss him at all. I don't think I should be shallow and change my opinion of someone just because they are dead. I won't miss Phelps when he dies either. I'm sure there were many people rejoicing when Saddam Hussein was executed.

"and from the start of Christianity as a large religion, there have been the Crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts. Compared to the history of Islam- where a massive amount of our modern day science and technology was born, actually- they have been much more peaceful than Christians."

Erin, how did the crusades start? by islamists burning down christians churches in the middle east, if it weren't for the crusades (Europe would've been islamic) and you would've been neeling on prayer rugs, not able to go to school and getting stoned for not using a head cover.

and all the names you've mentioned aboved came to believe in a Christian God before they died.

And in recent news, Phelps is apparently picketing Falwell's funeral. That seems incredibly funny to me.

Jasper, prove any of what you just said. I'm a medieval history major. That is NOT how the Crusades started. Are you honestly saying you support the Crusades?

":Compared to the history of Islam- where a massive amount of our modern day science and technology was born":

No, it came from europeans and americans...

":actually- they have been much more peaceful than Christians."

well good, then you won't mind moving to Iran or Saudi Arabia, do you plan on visting?

The Muslims in Spain were the most advanced civilization of the world until about 1500. Prove otherwise. And actually, I do plan on visiting Eqypt and Greece within a few years. If you tell me that there's some fascinating archaeological reason for me to visit Iran or Saudi Arabia, then I'd have no problem going there.

"That is NOT how the Crusades started"

Bull*** it didn't.

who the hell are you to look back and judge what happened. Like I said, if it didn't, you would be wearing a full-cover bedsheet.

The gall !!!

":The Muslims in Spain were the most advanced civilization of the world until about 1500"

I'm talking about recent advances, last 200-300 years.

Erin:
Two quotes from John Adams:

"[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue."

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.)

"[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

Thomas Jefferson:
"We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

President George Washington, September 17th, 1796

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"

His Prayer At Valley Forge "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee."

"Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus. "Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens."

"To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."

Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations."

Benjamin Franklin Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787

"I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

President Thomas Jefferson
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."

James Madison

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments." David Barton's book The Myth of Separation

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."
- Benjamin Franklin

"It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in [the Constitution] a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution."
- James Madison, Father of the Constitution.

"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it."
--James Madison

Are you in college yet jasper? If so, what is/was your major? Please don't take me to be accusing or anything, I just don't know how old you are or anything.

I look back and judge what happened because I'm a historian and THAT'S MY JOB. I realize that it is very difficult to look back on something objectively. But I have no allegience to either Islam or Christianity, and I can tell from my readings that the initial aggressors were the Europeans- it was an attempt to secure more capital for the Vatican, which was having a really hard time because a few of the Popes before Urban had been pretty nuts and very very apt at throwing money down the drain.

Jasper- without their acheievements in the scientific method and navigation, we would be nowhere remotely near as advanced as we are today.

Erin,

I'm 39 years old, I was in college and the military over 20 years ago, from 86' t 90'. My major was electronic technology.

I've done some reading about the History of the church. You, as a history professor should be careful on Judging the crusades. Don't leave out the part about the Chritians churches being burned to ground. (which started the crusades).

we'll see how long you last in Saudia-Arabia.

I appreciate your service to the country.

I'm not a professor yet- still have some grad school to get through.

And I'm a pretty tough chick, I think I'll be OK.

Erin,

If it wasn't for the crusades, what religon would Europe and the U.S today be today?

Islamic ... by force.

The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:

Thomas Jefferson:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short

Jefferson again:

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

More Jefferson:

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Jefferson's word for the Bible?

Dunghill.

John Adams:

Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Also Adams:

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Here's Thomas Paine:

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

Finally let's hear from James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they—the Baptists—who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state: Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should meddle in the beliefs of individuals.The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest attention.Editor's Note: This page was first posted in 1995. Since then we've received volumes of mail from politically conservative Christians supplying us with quotes from public speeches made by the authors above. While most of these author politicians were diplomatic in their public expressions concerning religion, in their private conversations, voluminous writings and correspondences they expressed contrary beliefs.Which beliefs are true? If a politician appears one way in public and another in private, which do you think better represents their true beliefs? How do you reconcile the inflamatory writings above with various pro-Christian statements that the same men made in public over the course of their careers? Could it be called "politics," an attempt to appease Christians while ensuring a more rational government based on the separation of church and state? It certainly seems that way.In addition, the Editor does not recognize any religious intentions of the so-called "Founding Fathers" as relevant to discussions of political process today. As a descendent of Native Americans the editor understands that America had already been "found." The "Christian" beliefs of a handfull of landed, white, male aristocracy enslaving blacks and murdering Native Americans hold little credibility and should be dumped along with the notions of slavery we so wisely dispensed with on January 1, 1863.

Moral indignation is envy with a halo.
H.G. Wells
You're working hard to put food on your family!
Dumbya

Erin -

"Valerie, I am not rejoicing in his death. I am simply not keeping my mouth closed about the fact that I will not miss him at all. I don't think I should be shallow and change my opinion of someone just because they are dead. I won't miss Phelps when he dies either. I'm sure there were many people rejoicing when Saddam Hussein was executed."

When Saddam Hussein was executed I went to the Mass that was intended for him. To pray for God to have mercy on his soul. That is what Catholics do. I did the same for Timothy McVey who was executed in my home state. And I will continue to do it for every other person that I hear has died. I do keep my mouth closed to allow family and friends of the deceased to properly mourn. I am not saying I keep my mouth closed forever, I am saying that I am respectful to those who loved him. The family of this man loved him and they deserve some time to grieve without all the vultures coming out to demean them. No one is asking for you to change your opinion. I am asking you to show respect. There is a huge difference. But apparently the idea of respect is foreign to you.

"Doesn't matter because at the rate things are going all you non-Christian ladies will be wearing head scarves and praying on your knees toward Mecca at the point of a sword cuz there won't be any Chritians around to protect you, they'll be gone, taken away in the Rapture."

@His Man: Why do you have such a problem with Muslims? You do realize that NOT all Muslims are like the extremists, right? Honestly, it disturbs me to no end when I see this type of xenophobia.

His Man, when you are taken away by the Rapture, can I have your car? (reference to a bumpersticker +10 to anybody who knows it)

Thank-god that 90% christian men/woman in the military are defending Laura's freedon to spout her non-sense.

Gee, Jasper, the Veterans Administration recognizes 38 different faiths. You'd be amazed:

MADISON, Wisconsin (AP) -- The Wiccan pentacle has been added to the list of emblems allowed in national cemeteries and on government-issued headstones of fallen soldiers, according to a settlement announced Monday.

A settlement between the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and Wiccans adds the five-pointed star to the list of "emblems of belief" allowed on VA grave markers.

Eleven families nationwide are waiting for grave markers with the pentacle, said Selena Fox, a Wiccan high priestess with Circle Sanctuary in Barneveld, Wisconsin, a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

The settlement calls for the pentacle, whose five points represent earth, air, fire, water and spirit, to be placed on grave markers within 14 days for those who have pending requests with the VA. (Watch what the headstones might look like )

"I am glad this has ended in success in time to get markers for Memorial Day," Fox said.

The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

The pentacle has been added to 38 symbols the VA already permits on gravestones. They include commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

"This settlement has forced the Bush Administration into acknowledging that there are no second class religions in America, including among our nation's veterans," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the Wiccans in the lawsuit.

The American Civil Liberties Union said the agreement also settles a similar lawsuit it filed last year against the VA. In that case, the ACLU represented two other Wiccan churches and three individuals.

VA-issued headstones, markers and plaques can be used in any cemetery, whether it is a national one such as Arlington or a private burial ground like that on Circle Sanctuary's property.

Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons. Variations of the pentacle not accepted by Wiccans have been used in horror movies as a sign of the devil.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

I'm sorry for his family, as the death of someone close can be difficult to bear, but I have no sympathy for this man. I disagree with everything he stood for, and unlike other Christian leaders, he insisted upon spewing his hate in the most virulent way possible. I have no respect for someone who advocated hatred against others.

Again, I feel the utmost sympathy for his family, as death is never an easy thing.

Regarding the crusades, jasper:

In March 1095 at the Council of Piacenza, ambassadors sent by Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Later that year, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, promising those who died in the endeavor immediate remission of their sins[9]. Crusader armies managed to defeat two substantial Turkish forces at Dorylaeum and at Antioch, finally marching to Jerusalem with only a fraction of their original forces. In 1099, they took Jerusalem by assault and massacred the population.

From wikipedia. Great for getting the basic idea for something, and I can give you the links to everything cited as well. Read the bolded part, please: does that sound particularly Christian to you?

As for Europe being Muslim by force, I'd say that the various forced conversions that the Christians have embarked upon aren't any better:

Forced Conversion of the Jews

During the colonial period, Native Americans were subjected to forced conversion, as well as Africans, Indians...the list goes on. It might not be happening now, but Christianity's hands are not as clean of blood as you would like to think.

Very well stated, Less.

Posted by: Laura at May 15, 2007 10:13 PM

John Adams:

Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

The invention of the first successful automobile is attributed to Karl Benz in Germany in 1895. John Adams was born on October 30, 1735, and died on July 4, 1826.

The AP appears to be somewhat less than reliable.

As well as being attributed to how many people or things one can fit into an automobile, the word carload can also refer to the quantity of goods that can be carried in a railroad freight car. (According to the Oxford English Dictionary)

Laura, what I think that you do not understand, is that there were two forms of Christianity in that point of history. There was the Biblical Christianity, the faith in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ from the Bible, and then there was the corrupt Christian church's religion, which they were trying to get away from, because they were being forced into it, and were being persecuted by. They were forced to flee this "Christianity", THUS, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

You're very observant, Samantha, I didn't even notice that.

jasper, I am so sorry. Every time you ask me about the baby, I log off right before seeing your post. The baby is great, and it's a girl.

And I'll concede that Jefferson was a diest who himself did not believe in the divinity of Christ However, he did not oppose others believing in the divinity of Christ at all, and he did not think them to be crazy (he was quoted to say that "some of the wisest men believe in the reality of these inspirations" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 327)) ...he did not want to prohibit them from having the freedom to their religion.

jasper, I also wanted to say that it's scary that we have people like this wandering around in society. Please excuse me for repeating this but they were calling Reverend Falwell "worm food." How could you disgrace someone in death? Even when I knew people that died that were not "favorites" of mine, I never ranted about being glad that they were gone. Also, I saw what a lot of them had to say about abortion. This I cannot repeat. It was enough to make you vomit! I am dead serious!

I would never speak so unkindly about the dead until at least they had been given the chance to be mourned. Even if Dr. Tiller died, as much as I would be thankful that the babies were not being killed by him anymore, I would be sad that he had left this world without a Saviour, and I would let him be mourned by his followers....I wouldn't go around saying, "Yeehaw, the baby killer is dead!".

Bethany, that's true! I'll bet you that if an abortionist passed away, they would all be speaking about what a great man he was. I could just hear it now. Thank you Dr. Tiller for helping women that had that difficult CHOICE to make in their lifetimes. Thank God. The man was a saint. He stood for choice and for women. Blah, blah, blah.

Since when are these sleaze bag abortionists "good men"? They are baby killers!

I know, Heather...crazy!

Okay, as for the quotes about no religion....

From this link:

"1.) “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it.” - John Adams -

This quote is taken from a letter Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson on April 19, 1817, in which Adams illustrated the intolerance often manifested between Christians in their denominational disputes. Lamenting the types of petty disputes between ministers, Adams declared to Jefferson:

“Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.”

Obviously, when this quote is used to prove America was intended to be a secular nation, it is vastly out of context. In reality, Adams’ position on religion was exactly the opposite of what is put forth by breathingists. Adams believed that it would be “fanatical” to desire a world without religion, for such a world would be “hell.” Jefferson wrote back and declared that he agreed."

Why is it that pro-choicers never seem to read things in their context, be it the Bible, Founding Fathers quotes, Margaret Sanger, etc?

**********************
"2. ) “The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion …” - George Washington -

The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli is the source of Washington’s supposed statement. That treaty, one of several with Tripoli, was negotiated during the “Barbary Powers Conflict.” Throughout this long conflict, the five Barbary Powers regularly attacked undefended American merchant ships. Not only were their cargoes easy prey but the Barbary Powers were also capturing and enslaving “Christian” seamen in retaliation for what had been done to them by the “Christians” of previous centuries (e.g., the Crusades and Ferdinand and Isabella’s expulsion of Muslims from Granada).

The 1797 treaty with Tripoli was one of the many treaties in which each country officially recognized the religion of the other in an attempt to prevent further escalation of a “Holy War” between Christians and Muslims. Consequently, Article XI of that treaty stated:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity [hatred] against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

This article may be read in two manners. It may, as its critics do, be concluded after the clause “Christian religion”; or it may be read in its entirety and concluded when the punctuation so indicates. But even if shortened and cut abruptly (”the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion”), this is not an untrue statement since it is referring to the federal government.

Though the Founders themselves openly described America as a Christian nation, they did include a constitutional prohibition against a federal establishment; religion was a matter left solely to the individual States. Therefore, if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation.

Article XI simply distinguished America from those historical strains of European Christianity which held an inherent hatred of Muslims; it simply assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries (with whose practices the Muslims were very familiar) and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them.

Those who attribute the Treaty of Tripoli quote to George Washington make two mistakes. The first is that no statement in it can be attributed to Washington (the treaty did not arrive in America until months after he left office); Washington never saw the treaty; it was not his work; no statement in it can be ascribed to him. The second mistake is to divorce a single clause of the treaty from the remainder which provides its context."

**********************

"3. ) “I disbelieve all holy men and holy books.” - Thomas Paine -

Is the accuracy of this quote any better than the previous ones imputed to Adams and Washington? In this case, the answer is probably yes—that is, while we were unable to locate this specific statement by Paine, it is certainly of a tone similar to several others he made in his Age of Reason and other writings which attacked religion generally and Christianity specifically. However, the real story is not the accuracy of Paine’s quote, but rather how the other Founders reacted to Paine’s declarations. John Adams wrote:

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard [scoundrel, rogue] Paine say what he will.

Samuel Adams wrote Paine a stiff rebuke, telling him:

When I heard you had turned your mind to a defence of infidelity, I felt myself much astonished and more grieved that you had attempted a measure so injurious to the feelings and so repugnant to the true interest of so great a part of the citizens of the United States. The people of New England, if you will allow me to use a Scripture phrase, are fast returning to their first love. Will you excite among them the spirit of angry controversy at a time when they are hastening to amity and peace? I am told that some of our newspapers have announced your intention to publish an additional pamphlet upon the principles of your Age of Reason. Do you think that your pen, or the pen of any other man, can unchristianize the mass of our citizens, or have you hopes of converting a few of them to assist you in so bad a cause?

Many other similar writings could be cited, but these are sufficient to show that Paine’s views were strongly rejected even by the least religious Founders. In fact, Paine’s views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.

Yet, even Thomas Paine cannot be called an atheist, for in the same work wherein he so strongly attacked Christianity, Paine also declared:

I believe in one God . . . and I hope for happiness beyond this life.

The evidence is clear that not only can none of them be called an atheist, only the smallest handful would fit today’s definition of a deist.

There is abundant evidence to refute any notion that the Founding Fathers were atheists, agnostics, or deists, or that they wanted to divorce religious principles from public affairs. The more one learns about their activities and writings, the easier it is not only to understand but also to agree with the characterization given by many of them concerning the Christian nature of the American nation and its government. "

In 1931, in the case of United States v. Macintosh, 283 U.S. 605 the court said, “We are a Christian people…according to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God.”

In 1952 the Supreme Court, in the case of Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306 307 313 stated: “We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being…When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. We cannot read into the Bill of Rights a philosophy of hostility to religion.”

In 1963 the Supreme Court, in the case of School District of Abington Township v Schempp, 374 U.S. 203,212,225 pp.21, 71, records: “The State may not establish a ‘religion of secularism’ in the sense of affirmatively opposing or showing hostility to religion, thus preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe (!!!!!!!).”

In 1980, the Supreme Court, in the case of Stone v. Grahamn, 449 U.S. 39,42,46 said: “The Bible may constitutionally be used in an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, or the like.”

In 1993. In the case of Jones v Clear Creek Independent School District, 977, F.2d 963,972 (5th Cir.), upheld the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals decision permitting student-initiated prayer at high school graduation ceremonies, providing a majority of the class votes to do so. “There is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect.”

Laura dear,

Here are some quotes from our founding fathers, jasper dear.
“Religions are alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust.
"The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible."
-George Washington

Just wanted to let you know that George Washington was not the author of any of these quotes that you attributed to him. Thomas Jefferson was.

Here are some George Washington quotes you may enjoy:

"“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779"

""It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.""

""It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors.""

"“The name of American, belongs to you…[and] with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.”
--George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796"

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

“O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."

Bethany:
Laura dear,

Just wanted to let you know that George Washington was not the author of any of these quotes that you attributed to him. Thomas Jefferson was.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Genius-
I didn't post any quotes from George Washington.

John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Care to give me a reference for where you can find the document containing this quote? I looked and cannot find it anywhere, except for athiestic sites, saying it came from John Adams but not listing where.

Yes, you attributed them to him in this paragraph which I just quoted you as saying above;

Here are some quotes from our founding fathers, jasper dear.
“Religions are alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust.
"The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible."
-George Washington

And you're right, not a single one was uttered from George Washington's mouth.

OKay I apologize...it was Erin who wrote that. You two I don't know very well and I got you mixed up. So my statement is directed at her then.

Laura dear,
jasper dear.

I'm glad to see we are all getting along....

Christopher Hitchens said it best:

HITCHENS: The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing, that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you will just get yourself called reverend.

Who would, even at your network, have invited on such a little toad to tell us that the attacks of September the 11th were the result of our sinfulness and were God's punishment if they hadn't got some kind of clerical qualification?

People like that should be out in the street, shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup.

He also said, it's a pity there's no hell for Falwell to go to.

SoMG: I won't defend Falwell's extraordinary remarks, but I'll note that his theory of 9/11's moral cause is certainly no more insane than that of the truthers out there in la-la land. Yet the latter are, of late, gaining a head of steam.

The growing credence lent the tinfoil hat brigade of late is enough to make one nostalgic for flouridation hysteria. ;-)

@Rasqual: Gotta keep my bodily fluids pure. :)

Rae, our precious essences must not be adulterated!

So, rasquel, you believe that women wearing pants and homosexuals made the twin towers come down? God killed all of those people because of that? How loving that is!

@Less: I love that movie so much... I think I'mma gonna rent it this weekend now. :)

Rae, I did an entire class on it last semester: we studied it from the perspective of a Gothic movie and the cultural fears it shows. It was amazing!

Oh my fritz, really? That is so not fair...my school doesn't have fun classes like that. :-p

Who is your favorite character in the movie? I'm partial to Dr. Strangelove himself and George C. Scott's character (though his name escapes me as it's been about a year since I saw the flim).

I'm fond of the president, myself. He's so stressed...whenever I see that movie I want to give him a Xantac and a hug.

Less:
"So, rasquel, you believe that women wearing pants and homosexuals made the twin towers come down? God killed all of those people because of that? How loving that is!"

Less, in all honesty -- are you stupid? Where on EARTH do you draw that kind of inference about what I think?