Nice girls don't

waitress2.jpgPro-abort blogger Tao Te Xark today discussed two recently released films, Waitress and Knocked Up, wherein both female leads encountered unwanted pregnancies, had their babies with nary a thought about abortion, married their princes, and lived happily ever after.

Unspoken bottom lines: Nice girls don't abort, and nice movies don't include abortions.

Tao concluded (with my added paragraph breaks)....

We (and by "we" I mean pro-choice supporters) are losing this battle - call it the stigma battle - in the war for reproductive freedom, and popular culture reflects that by giving us movies about unwanted pregnancies in which terminating those pregnancies cannot even be discussed lest we lose sympathy for their lead characters.

knocked up.jpg

Forgive the pun, but abortion has indeed become a character issue. Nice people don't have one, if they do they don't admit it, and even those who claim to support abortion politically find it necessary to attenuate their support, lest they look less than "nice" as well.

More than one friend has said to me, "I'm pro-choice, but I don't think abortion should be used as birth control." To which my response is, “it is birth control, it's always birth control, that's exactly what it is."...

[W]hat I think they mean is some combination of the following: people shouldn't have multiple abortions, they shouldn't have abortions instead of practicing other methods of birth control or contraception, or they shouldn't have abortions for the wrong reasons (like simply finding a baby inconvenient). So abortion is becoming a synonym for irresponsibility?...

Here's the thing: It's a right or it's not. When it's a right you don't have to apologize for exercising it. If you support that right, then it's not your business why anyone might exercise it. If you can't keep yourself from interrogating and/or judging the reasons why someone might have an abortion, then you don't really support reproductive freedom. You just don't - own up to it. And if you think you're not playing right into the hands of those who would like abortion to become so unspeakable that it is outlawed entirely, you're dead wrong.

According to Tao, many "pro-choice" commenters on this blog are actually not, because you say exactly those things. You don't embrace abortion. You're not proud of it. You do judge mothers for reasons for and numbers of abortions. You say you'd never have one, which is a classic indicator of guilt.

Tao says you're actually pro-life. No?


Comments:

I dunno, the way I see it, these movies would not have the conflict necessary for the plot if the women did have abortions. I mean, if "Knocked Up" ended with an abortion, not only would the movie be missing out on all the "you're gonna be a bad parent" jokes, it misses out on showing the miracle that is birth (ooer). That and it would be like...20 minutes long. The fact that these women chose to keep their pregnancies (which I see nothing wrong with) helps the story's plot and gives added conflict in which to help garner more character development and what not.

Posted by: Rae at June 7, 2007 10:49 PM


Yes, I would say the premise of Knocked Up would be being "knocked up". Just a guess. I haven't seen it.

But if she had had an abortion it would have been called Girl Who Gets Pregnant From One Night Stand But Decides To Have Abortion And Return To Grey's Anatomy- which is not easy to fit on a marquee

;-)

Posted by: JK at June 7, 2007 11:22 PM


right Rae, an abortion would have been an acceptable choice but not too intersting a movie. I don't think pro-choice people are losing the battle. Outside of this site, I don't know anyone who wants the government to restrict the right of women to choice whether or not to have an abortion.

Posted by: hal at June 7, 2007 11:23 PM


hal,

Don't know many people do you?

Posted by: HisMan at June 7, 2007 11:35 PM


Hi Hisman. I know a lot of people. Just attended a dinner with over forty. I didn't poll the room, but I'd bet $1.00 that none there were pro-life. None at work at, none in my neighborhood that I know of.

I'm sure somewhere among the people I know there is a quiet pro-lifer out there. My point is that in day-to-day interactions, I don't hear anyone advocating more government interference with the right of a woman to decide whether to have an abortion or not.

I'm ready to admit in your life you don't run into too many pro-choice individuals. It seems sometimes there might be two Americas.

Posted by: hal at June 7, 2007 11:40 PM


I'm sure you would feel the same way hal if someone came into your home to kill you while you were sleeping, especially if it was your mother! I'm doubt that you would want the government sticking their nose in your business then!

Posted by: luvmy5kids at June 8, 2007 12:01 AM


The best abortion movie I've seen so far is CITIZEN RUTH.

Posted by: SoMG at June 8, 2007 1:14 AM


"Nice girls don't abort, and nice movies don't include abortions"

Jill and Tao both seem to miss one crucial point; Not much of motherhood story to begin with if she'd abort.

As far as the question; I think i've mentioned that everyone here should get an abortion if they can... not just the prolifers. As far as numbers of abortions... I think it's sad anyone would make the same mistake several times (unwanted pregnancy) and would judge them for the mistake, not that they'd do something about it (abortion). Subtle distinctions no doubt lost to the fetus centric. In general, abortion is not what people are ashamed of, if they're even ashamed. They're ashamed of becoming pregnant in a society that general frowns on single mothers and out of wedlock sex. Abortion is a product of moral judgements of the pious fetus centric nuts.

Posted by: Cameron at June 8, 2007 2:03 AM


hal,

Your comment was not believable. It's akin to saying, "I don't know how he won the presidency, I don't know anyone who voted for him."

Obviously, the people one hangs with has something to do with one's politics and morals: It goes like this: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

You should pick a different crowd.

Posted by: HisMan at June 8, 2007 3:47 AM


Cam Cam:

Please explain this to me:

"Abortion is a product of moral judgements of the pious fetus centric nuts."

Are you blaming abortions on pro-lifers?

What are you trying to say? Did you leave out a word or two?

Posted by: HisMan at June 8, 2007 3:51 AM


Jill,

What about Fast Times At Ridgemont High? That movie has an abortion in it, and is considered one of the better movies of our time. Plus, not even you could hate Jeff Spicoli, or are you so unhappy to hate that lovable oaf too?

Posted by: Dan at June 8, 2007 5:04 AM


Honestly, I think getting upset about abortions in movies would be ridiculous ... because it's the imaginary abortion of a fetus that never existed.

There are better ways to spend energy. I myself am going to go to the pharmacy and then go to Paris and spend the afternoon reading in a park, trying to ignore my nausea.

Good day!

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 6:06 AM


I liked Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Let's NOT forget though. The girl initiated the sex, so she was portrayed as a tramp. The guy told her to have an abortion. He also threw in "How do you know it's mine?" "You WANTED it." I just saw it on a cable repeat about a week ago.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 7:07 AM


I like his conclusion...very well said.

One thing I don't like about his article is this erroneous quote:

"Those abortion foes are deeply concerned that you keep your pregnancy, but when it becomes an actual child, youíre on your own)."

How many times has this been proven untrue? There are about 1,000 more pregnancy centers than there are abortion clinics (last time I heard), and I happen to volunteer for one. We offer diapers, baby clothes, toys, housing, formula, baby beds, counseling for mothers, counseling for pregnant mothers, and any other support they request- we find it. I do not understand why they feel they must lie about us in order to make themselves look better in this area. While pregnancy centers offer absolutely free support like what i just mentioned, I don't know of any Planned Parenthood which offers anything nearly close to this, and their services pretty much end at abortion. Do they care about the women after the abortion? Do they care about the women who decide to carry their child to term? Do they follow up on them to make sure they're okay? That just bugs me.

Other than that, I think his analysis of pro-choicers who oppose abortion personally is correct.

This quote is especially true:
"Here's the thing: It's a right or it's not. When it's a right you don't have to apologize for exercising it. If you support that right, then it's not your business why anyone might exercise it. If you can't keep yourself from interrogating and/or judging the reasons why someone might have an abortion, then you don't really support reproductive freedom. You just don't - own up to it. "

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 7:10 AM


Hal, I was wondering why you and tour wife chose to abort twice. What was the problem?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 7:27 AM


Cam said: "They're ashamed of becoming pregnant in a society that general frowns on single mothers and out of wedlock sex."

AHH!! I know! It is so sad that motherhood can be a shameful thing when it should be something celebrated! If a girl gets pregnant at 17 and decides to keep the baby--that's her thing. Society shouldn't judge her for it. Poor potential girl ...

I canceled my trip to Paris, in case anyone was like "... why are you here?" Not enough energy.

Posted by: Leah at June 8, 2007 7:43 AM


Heather,the first time we were a bit young and weren't ready to start a family. The second time, many years later we had our family, didn't want any more children, and my wife was ill with a chronic disease. If we thought abortion was wrong, we would have found a way to manange through it I guess,but we don't.

Posted by: hal at June 8, 2007 8:10 AM


I don't think that we should underestimate the effect that association has. The whole pro-abortion movement justified itself to the mainstream by association and careful choice of wording.

Therefore, the more that having a baby is linked to being a good thing, the more that it is emphasized that "nice girls do not have abortions" and (like the quoted author said) the more that abortion is defined as something that you shouldn't have, the better the chance that abortion will be shunned, if not overturned.

What's really fascinating to me is that PP will say that they're all for fewer abortions, but (again) they are not-- since fewer abortions would mean that they would go out of business.

Posted by: MInTheGap at June 8, 2007 8:13 AM


Leah, sorry you're going to miss the tail end of springtime in Paris!

Heather, thanks for capsulizing the abortion portion of Fast Times. I saw it a long time ago but forgot the plot and was going to ask Dan the context of the abortion. Am not surprised at the abortion portrayal. Very telling. Helps make the point of this post.

MG, I think the best pro-abortion movie was Cider House Rules.

Tao, Rae, and Min hit on aspects of the key point. Abortion, even after almost 35 years of attempted mainstreaming, is not and never will be. Why? Hollywood doesn't shy from controversial, anti-mainstream America plots. In fact, Hollywood runs toward them. Why not mainstream abortion? The fact is, even Hollywood doesn't like abortion, which is amazing.

I've been watching Lost this season. All pregnant women on the island die. During the last several episodes, one plot line has centered around Sun, who is pregnant. Never once has abortion come up, even tho there are doctors and at least one surgical suite on the island. Sun has accepted her fate. Writers know we would stop liking Sun if she aborted. Instead, she is a heroine for being willing to sacrifice herself for her child. In this case, the fetus is a baby, and Sun is a mother protecting her baby.

Pro-abort word obfuscations and attempted mainstreaming of abortion will NEVER win the day.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 8:30 AM


"As far as the question; I think i've mentioned that everyone here should get an abortion if they can... not just the prolifers."

Cameron,
OK. Come again???
I can't wait to hear your explaination for this statement.

Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 8:39 AM


Heather,the first time we were a bit young and weren't ready to start a family. The second time, many years later we had our family, didn't want any more children, and my wife was ill with a chronic disease. If we thought abortion was wrong, we would have found a way to manange through it I guess,but we don't.

Hal, I know these are personal questions, but it has been bugging me for a long time, and I must ask. Do you ever wonder about what your children would have looked like now? What their personalities would have been like, or how old they would be now? Do you ever think these thoughts? Do you ever look in your born children's eyes and think about the children you could have had, and you sometimes wish that you could have seen what those children may have been like?
Do you ever miss them?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 8:45 AM


Jill, you're welcome. And the guy promised to pay for the abortion and give her a ride to the clinic. He never did either. As a matter of fact, he didn't even want to talk to her after she told him of the pregnancy. Typical. Sandy, this is the second time Cameron has said this. That fool is disgusting.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 8:49 AM


Sometimes I wonder what my miscarried baby would be like a birth. I wonder if he or she would have had James' eyes, like Bonnie has....would she have been a sweet little daddy's girl, or would he have been a rough snakes and snails and puppy dog tails boy who loved to play in the dirt and get muddy. Would he or she have loved music? Would he or she have liked to build things? When it comes time for the baby's would have been due date, I will always think of what age the baby would have been, and will probably wonder what he or she would have been like. Do you think your wife has feelings like this, Hal?

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 8:53 AM


I hated Cider House Rules...I've never been able to look at Michael Caine the same way again...What he did to that beautiful boy still haunts me today!

Per Less's conversation yesterday, I've decided to ignore comments like this from Cameron and Smaug.

And she has agreed to ignore Jasper and Hisman.

In an effort to promote real conversation and not digress into finger pointing and comparing which side is the most "offensive".

Otherwise, they can steal the show and everything becomes about them and their insane remarks.

However, when Cameron has something legitimate to say, (which actually happens sometimes) I'll be glad to take him seriously!

Unfortunately, Smaug almost never has anything legitimate to say...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 8:57 AM


Bethany,

no, I don't ever do those things. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't look at it that way. Sure, I "could have had" more children, and I can think about what they would be like, but the two "children" we aborted are no more real to me than the children we prevented by contraception.

I don't wonder about those "children" either, as they were also never born.

Posted by: hal at June 8, 2007 8:59 AM


Here is an interesting thought...

Notice that the people on here that we have the most trouble with, are all men...

I was reading Chesterton this week and he says that there is a fundamental difference in how men and women debate.

Women talk to "each other" and men talk to the topic...

Maybe this is what sets us women off?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:00 AM


MK, I hated Cider House Rules, too. It infuriated me on many levels. That's why I think it was the best pro-abortion movie. It did a great pro-abortion spin job.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 9:06 AM


Yes, MK, I think that has a lot to do with it. The way men think is very much different than women think.

Hal, I understand that you say you feel that way. Even though it is scientifically not the same at all. An unborn child is biologically living, and has the ability to grow and develop and reproduce...however, a sperm or egg has one purpose, serves it or doesn't serve it, and then "dies". They have no further purpose or ability, whereas the unborn baby does. It isn't the same at all.

P.S. Does your wife feel exactly the same as you? Can you tell me without being at all dishonest, that this hasn't emotionally affected your wife, even in the slightest?


Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:07 AM


Jill and MK, I wouldn't even watch Cider House Rules because what I heard about it was enough to make my stomach churn in disgust.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:11 AM


What was it about Bethany?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 9:12 AM


Here's part of the plot by Wikipedia:

"Wilbur's and Homer's lives are complicated by the fact that the former is also secretly an abortionist at a time when abortion is illegal. He believes that he is doing the world a service because "one way the poor can help themselves would be to be in control of the size of their families." He comes to this work reluctantly, disliking abortion, but driven by seeing the horrors of back-alley operations. When Homer learns about this secret, he considers it evil, which leads to some angry interchanges between Homer and Wilbur.

Many years later, when Angel is a teenager, he makes friends with Rose Rose, the daughter of a migrant worker at the apple orchard, who becomes pregnant with her father's child, and Homer performs an abortion on her. Homer decides to return to the orphanage after the death of Dr. Larch, and works as the new director. This is the culminating love-of-civitas step in Homer's life. Homer and Candy eventually tell Angel that they are his biological parents."

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:24 AM


Last night, the show Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip included a plotline about a pregnant woman (Amanda Peet) having complications with her pregnancy. The ER doc asks her, "Have you ever had an abortion?" and she says, "Yes, in 1999." No apology, no regret, just said it the same way she informed him she was allergic to shellfish.
She's not a bad guy, she's the Nice Girl who ended up getting engaged in the same episode.

Knocked Up may not talk about abortion, but it certainly is in the mainstream entertainment culture - movies and TV.

Posted by: Milehimama at June 8, 2007 10:19 AM


Was she having a complicated pregnancy because of the abortion?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 10:26 AM


Milehi, 10:19a, as an aside, it's interesting that the doc asked if she had a history of abortion, which a good doctor will do. There is absolutely no other reason to ask that except because abortion can cause future pregnancy complications.

Back on point, stating one has a history of abortion on a t.v. show is far different than a t.v. show showing one actively being pursued.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 10:39 AM


Also, I have been to sites where women are ashamed to admit to ever having an abortion. They lie to their docs. I have a friend who just comes right out and says it too. She will tell anyone and everyone. Weird.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 10:43 AM


I think it's interesting how abortion is portrayed in the mainstream media. There's an episode of CSI where a clinic takes left over IVF fetuses and implants them into willing women, who then birth the fetus and are mothers. One such woman was murdered by the fetus's biological grandmother in order to get custody of the child...it's a complicated storyline. Anyway, the two lead investigators go and talk to the director of the clinic, who is obviously pro-life. Said director is obviously portrayed as a complete nutjob: she's sickeningly sweet until the investigators pop up with a different opinion, and then she turns nasty in a way that makes her seem absolutely bipolar.

That's really the only show I've seen that deals even a small amount with abortion: I won't be seeing Knocked Up or Waitress as a loathe most romantic comedies. I do think people are right, though, that abortion needs to be de-stigmatized, just as single motherhood and teen motherhood should be de-stigmatized. It isn't fair to punish a woman for making whatever choice they feel is right for them.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:24 PM


"It isn't fair to punish a woman for making whatever choice they feel is right for them."

how about if they kill somebody? Is it then fair to punish...

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 12:42 PM


jasper, I'm all for it.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:46 PM


The fact that punishment is the first thing on your mind speaks volumes about your personality and the way you see the world, sweety. :)

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 12:55 PM


good. I hope so.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 12:56 PM


OK, now I can get to neither of the first two posts on the page.

Jiiiiillllll...the site is broken...

Posted by: Erin at June 8, 2007 1:03 PM


me neither.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 1:05 PM


HisMan,

Suggesting that only prolifers have abortions, and everyone should try it, was my idea of humor.

Suggesting that a pious society encourages abortions is a reasonable inference, however I know most women seeking abortions claim economic reasons.

My overall point though regarding shame... People aren't so much ashamed of having abortions, or even unwanted pregnancy for that matter (it happens to the best of us), as they are concerned about judgemental sorts like you all treating them like crap. they don't talk about it because they don't want to deal with you people calling them at three in the morning calling them baby killers.

Posted by: Cameron at June 8, 2007 1:18 PM


I'm experiencing technical difficulties and am freaking out a tad here.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 1:18 PM


Not to worry Jill. I was thinking that it was my computer [big T-storm brewing]

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 1:22 PM


Glad I wasn't the only one! (with the site being buggy)

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 1:24 PM


Gahhh, we need rain DESPERATELY down here in Georgia. They're at the point of jailing people when they violate the water restrictions more than 3 times.

Posted by: Erin at June 8, 2007 1:26 PM


Ahh this is so weird. I refresh, the post is there. Refresh again...it's gone!

Erin, sorry to hear about the Georgia situation. You should get some of the rain we've been having in Texas!

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 1:28 PM


Our power went out a little bit ago because of the thunder and lightning we just had here. I thought maybe it was my computer there for a bit too. lol

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 1:38 PM


I'm sorry. I don't know what the heck I'm doing when it comes to trouble like this and am reliant on the good graces of web savvy friends to help me. I'm playing around with publishing and unpublishing my latest post. Things are fine until I try to post something new.

Also, of course, we have the added stress of not knowing whether Paris has to go back to jail... :)

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 1:39 PM


Cameron,
Your idea of humor is disturbing at best. I think your head got stuck in the anemome tank and you were down way too long. Your attempt to be funny failed and I was literally sickened by your comment. I can't believe the pro-choicers haven't kicked you off of their side.

Per Cameron:
"Suggesting that a pious society encourages abortions is a reasonable inference, however I know most women seeking abortions claim economic reasons."

Again Cameron, of course you can skew statistics to make anything look the way you want. By stating the above you create a scenerio so people believe these sad poor hardworking women did everything they can to prevent pregnancy and oops....somehow got pregnant and they and their hardworking partner are on their last meal and have no means to possibly support a child.
This is how you continue to confuse the issue.

Of course economic reasons would be stated as a
major reason for women who choose to abort.

Since......

Fifty-two percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20Ė24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.[6]

Obvioulsy these women are not going to be able to support a child. They are teeeeenaaaggers, and collllleeeeggggee stuuuudents who have not established themselves enough financially to buy their next Super Gulp.

Face it. These women are using abortion as a birth control method. Period.

Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 1:53 PM


Sandy, they sure are.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:29 PM


Is it just me or is the comment section not working in the Gisle post?

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 2:51 PM


It's not working for me either.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 2:52 PM


Sorry, still undergoing major probs. Now have two web experts conferring on this. Not making sense.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 2:56 PM


Poor Jill! Don't worry we still love your site.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:00 PM


I blame Samantha T.

She wanted some new "Catholic Mysticism" stuff and I posted on the End Times...Then lightening struck and the computer did a "Giuilani Thingy" and now we can't post...


It gives one pause tho, doesn't it? If the computer gets better, I'll repost and you can see if there is a hidden meaning somewhere...(cue twilight zone music...)

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:12 PM


brace yourselves, some sad news:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070608/D8PKR3DG1.html

Posted by: jasper at June 8, 2007 3:16 PM


Aww...poor Paris.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:29 PM


Oh, I've had my TV off all day. So, back she goes. Thanks for the info jasper!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 3:32 PM


But...but...she has a "medical condition". I didn't realize you could get out of jail for being abnoxious.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:38 PM


illinoisreview.typepad.com/.../virgins_5.jpg

This just reminded me of all the muslim/catholic dialog that has gone on...something to do while the website gets fixed...

Good for laugh anyway...and for those who are sensitive...IT'S JUST A JOKE!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:42 PM


Lauren,
Too funny!

Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 3:54 PM


Sorry, it's not working...I'll try later.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 3:59 PM


http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/virgins_5.jpg

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 4:00 PM


There you go...have a good laugh!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 4:00 PM


Ok, so I use an online system to pay my house payment.

For some reason my account was locked, so I called Bank of America to see what was going on.

No one at their "helpdesk" had a clue what I'm talking about. They can't even find the page. Oy.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 4:16 PM


My goodness. I've talked to 4 different people and none of them know what I'm talking about.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 4:28 PM


This is unlikely, but I wonder if there are larger computer problems ongoing. News is reported Atlanta airport had computer problems that affected all of east coast.

My problems her are still unresolved. My web friends say they don't understand them.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 4:30 PM


"Face it. These women are using abortion as a birth control method. Period."


That's exactly the kind of BS i'm talking about that encourages women to get abortions. Not exactly oozing with compasion Sandy... what gives?

Posted by: Cameron at June 8, 2007 5:10 PM


MK....that picture was hilarious. How's the leg? :)

Posted by: Lyssie at June 8, 2007 5:28 PM


Jill, interesting. I wonder if that's why BoA's website is being funny.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 8, 2007 5:36 PM


MK,

Your idea of humor is disturbing at best. Love the pic. ;-D

Posted by: Cameron at June 8, 2007 6:09 PM


@MK: That picture is funny. Have you ever heard the joke about the Islamic extremist who went to heaven and was surrounded by George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc...? Instead of 72 virgins...it was 72 VIRGINIANS!

That made me put on my lollerskates. :D

Posted by: Rae at June 8, 2007 6:12 PM


Cameron,
Explain why you think my statement is BS.

The numbers are there to prove it. Straight from PP. Or to quote you..."don't you have the capacity to understand the numbers"

How possibly does this truth encourage women to abort??

Why are you pretending you don't understand the realities here??

Not getting pregnant is quite easy. Just ask Less. (Consistent accurate use of BC and double condoms.) I give her much credit for that.

One of the many areas Less and I differ is that she thinks taking responsibility for her actions is to abort some "thing" that was uninvited into her person.

My belief is that you did invite that some "thing" into your person because as we all know that sex leads to procreation. No method of birth control is 100% effective.

I can not think of ONE woman I know who aborted and did so for ANY other reason than to use it as a birth control method. EVER!!!

You know the drill: Drunken one night stands, unprotected sex, inconsistent BC use etc... etc...

Just for thought:
One of the women I know sufferred years of infertility and spent thousands of dollars to have the privelige to conceive and deliver a full-term healthy baby. Her doctor concluded her infertility problems were due to her pubecent abortion.

Another woman I know never was able to conceive after her abortion and suffers with the fact that the one chance she had to bring a child into the world was destroyed by her selfishness.

Another I know aborted and decided NEVER to have children and to this day cannot even hold a baby.

One young woman I know got pregnant in highschool with her steady boyfriend. She then "OH MY GOSH" was asked out by a star football player from a local college who was on his way to play professional ball. She was almost past the viabilty (didn't really show yet) stage when this happened and decided to abort so she could break up with her current hogh scholl boyfriend and date her NEW HUNK college hunk hoping for a better lifesyle as a professional player's wife.


It brings me to tears that her baby was mutilated and torn out of her body because she was too selfish to do the right thing. It's even more disgusting that there are people out there who willingly promote this behavior and then take a profit from it. It has been said that a women's wombs are a goldmine. Jill's earlier post on the bloody profits PP earns in a year is testimony to that.

$326,000,000 could go a long way to help crisis pregnancy centers and to support those women who have the audacity to keep their babies.

You have fallen for this "pro-choice" terminology that was basically drafted as a marketing tool. Congratulations Cameron you fell for it.

We all know the scene. Hook ups, multiple partners, unprotected sex etc..... etc....etc....

Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 8:52 PM


Sory for the typos. Contacts drying out. Didn't preview before I hit post.
good nite all.

Posted by: Sandy at June 8, 2007 8:55 PM


One young woman I know got pregnant in highschool with her steady boyfriend. She then "OH MY GOSH" was asked out by a star football player from a local college who was on his way to play professional ball. She was almost past the viabilty (didn't really show yet) stage when this happened and decided to abort so she could break up with her current hogh scholl boyfriend and date her NEW HUNK college hunk hoping for a better lifesyle as a professional player's wife.


It brings me to tears that her baby was mutilated and torn out of her body because she was too selfish to do the right thing. It's even more disgusting that there are people out there who willingly promote this behavior and then take a profit from it. It has been said that a women's wombs are a goldmine. Jill's earlier post on the bloody profits PP earns in a year is testimony to that.

How dispicable!

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 9:01 PM


Sandy,ugh we must talk. I knew a woman who aborted because she didn't want to ruin her figure. Another got pregnant on purpose to make her ex jealous. She aborted another man's child to get her ex back. The plan worked. Another says that she was a "crack whore." She had 9 abortions. To this day, she still hasn't gotten a tubal. The list goes on and on and on. This crapola is beyond sick. These women have made choices alright. They chose to become reproductive slobs!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 8, 2007 10:40 PM


MK maybe God is telling you that instead of spreading Catholicism, He wants you to convert to Methodism...

Posted by: SamanthaT at June 8, 2007 10:51 PM


Cameron:

I know women who have had abortions and never once have called them at three in the morning to harass them or any other time. I think you are talking about a small minority.

Cameron, why do you blog on this site? Seriously, do you see yourself as a defender of abortion or the women who have them? If so, why have you had to totally disregard the fetus (as you call babies in the womb)?

Let's pretend that abortion was impossible for a moment. Have you ever asked yourself if that would change your view of a fetus? Is there a moral part of you that has to disregard the fetus in order to stand for a women's choice? Why can't you have it both ways?

I mean pro-lifers are concerned about the moms and the tots while is seems that pro-choicers, in order to support their stance, have to demonize the unborn to somehow justify their extermiation.

Don't you find that somewhat dishonest?

Posted by: HisMan at June 8, 2007 11:21 PM


How are you able to deal with talking to the women who are about to abort their children, Heather? How does anyone do it? I mean, emotionally, how do you cope... I am trying to gain the confidence in the event that I come across one. I have met many women who already aborted, and regret it. This is easier to deal with. But I have never met (in "real life", not the internet) someone who was actually contemplating an abortion...and now that I've been working in a pregnancy center for a while, I know it's eventually going to happen. I must prepare myself to be able to handle it emotionally. I know I can externally handle it, but internally? For example, there was one girl that called last week, asking if we knew where she could get an abortion done. I told her that while we did not perform or refer to abortions but we could give her a free test and talk to her about her options, and give her any information she needed about her options. As I was talking to her, my fingers were literally trembling and as soon as I hung up the phone, I was still shaking and I held my face in my hands for about 5 minutes, almost in tears, wondering if it's that difficult for me to talk to someone who wants to an abortion on the phone, how much more difficult would it be in real life? I was able to handle the call professionally, but inside I was just in such shock that I was really talking to a person who was wanting to abort her child. She sounded so cold too...I don't know if maybe this is what made me so nervous or if it was just the fact that she is wanting an abortion.

She mentioned to me during the call that she didn't feel like she could handle being pregnant, and she was definite she was pregnant and wanted the abortion. I felt like my heart was breaking... here I am, all of a sudden I am a part of this. Thoughts running though my head at that time: What if I say the wrong thing? What if I do something wrong, I think? If she kills her child, do I become responsible because I failed to do the right thing when she called?

One of the other pregnancy counselors who has been there for years told me that it can get tough at times, when you actually get an abortion seeking client (most of the women who come in here are seeking diapers, formula, baby beds, etc).

She said that there was one woman who came in one time, and was 5 months pregnant, and said there was NO one and NOTHING, no baby was going to keep her from finishing her college goals...and it was all the counselor could do to keep calm about it.
She said she really hoped that the girl had not actually aborted, but she feels she probably did.

She did the best she could, gave her the information, gave her support and referrals to doctors who could help her. She said there are just some people out there who really just don't care...and we have to be prepared for it, and treat them in a kind manner, give them informaton, and just pray, pray, pray.

Posted by: Bethany at June 8, 2007 11:29 PM


Hey Behtany:

I am so proud of you and how you defend innocent life on this site especially in light of all that you have gone through.

Isn't it amazing that someone can actually contemplate killing another human being and then do it without fear of penalty (use to be that would be called premediated murder)? We truly are living in the worst of times, but also the best of times. Press on Bethany. Come Lord Jesus.

Posted by: HisMan at June 8, 2007 11:40 PM


I second that Hisman, Bethany is wise beyond her years....actually I have alot of respect for all the pro-lifers here.

Posted by: jasper at June 9, 2007 12:17 AM


Hm. The other post will NOT let me comment, and that makes me sad. I had snarky replies all ready and waiting, and now I can't use them. Ah well. I'll go off and whine on my blog about various things until everything is fixed.

*slinks off for the time being*

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 12:17 AM


It seems to be the only the post at the top of the page that seems to have the trouble....

Posted by: jasper at June 9, 2007 12:19 AM


Bethany,

Please don't beat yourself up about feeling responsible if that girl ended up having an abortion. From the way it sounded she was already set in her mind about it and there was nothing you could have done to sway her.

Just out of curiousity, I am meaning no disrespect and not looking for something to argue about, but, in the event you come face to face with a woman considering abortion, how would you counsel her? What would you say to get her to see things from your point of view? If she was not a religious person would that change the way you presented your argument?

Posted by: JK at June 9, 2007 10:46 AM


Per HisMan:
"Let's pretend that abortion was impossible for a moment. Have you ever asked yourself if that would change your view of a fetus?"

Thank you for that insightful question. I have wondered the same exact thing.

I also wonder if the whole marketing spin surrounding legalized abortion was never promoted the way it was; What view would our society have on abortion?

It makes me sad to think our society has passed on the pro-choice propaganda to the generation of young women who post on this sight.

You watch TV commercials and the marketing gurus can make anything look appealing.
They have even figured out a way to make erectile disfunction look sexy. What's next???

Also, thanks Bethany for all of your work at a crisis center. I am sure it can be very emotinally draining at times, but just look at how many women and children you possitively affect on a daily basis.

Thanks to all of the pro-life supporters on this sight. Your passion is infectious!


Posted by: Sandy at June 9, 2007 11:54 AM


I LOVED Knocked Up (good jobs all around to the writer/director, same as Freaks and Geeks and 40 Year Old Virgin.)!

I have a question for the blogger in the article. If you are truly "pro-choice" you would support the decision of these fictional characters to keep their babies no? Don't these ideas reflect a "pro-abort" stance rather than a "pro-CHOICE" one? There is a choice at stake here and these girls made their choice. Why should this kid be angry?

Posted by: prettyinpink at June 9, 2007 3:04 PM


PIP: I agree. It's wonderful that these women had and made their choices. I am just as adamant about letting a woman have a baby if she so desires. :) I saw Knocked Up and loved it.

Posted by: Lyssie at June 9, 2007 3:22 PM


Sandy, thank you! :)

Jk, in answer to your question...first, and most importantly, we are trained never, ever to manipulate women, or treat them with any disrespect whatsoever.

With that in mind, here is what I would do. First of all, I would give them a test, and confirm whether they were pregnant or not.

If it turns out the girl is pregnant, we sit and talk about how she feels. Sometimes a girl will be relieved, and sometimes they will be crying. We are taught to give them time to let those emotions out. It's sometimes a very scary thing when you're young or having problems and don't know where to turn.

The next thing I would do is ask them if they'd like to discuss it, and would they like to know anything about their options.

If they agree, I sit down across by them and let them tell me what they think. I am supposed to give them time to speak, to give their opinions, and not to be hasty to put in my suggestions of how to help the problem, before I've heard the situation fully.

If the opportunity arises, I can share with her all of the resources that we have available for her, to help her throughout the pregnancy, if she is interested.

If she says she is considering adoption, I can give her referrals for adoption, and discuss the adoption process with her. If she is considering abortion, we have a very factual page which discusses the different abortion procedures. (There is nothing religious on these, simply the facts).

We do explain to them while some women have abortions and end up fine...however, some women will develop physical or psychological complications from abortions, and we discuss those.

If, after reviewing her options, she still says she would like to have an abortion anyway, there is nothing we can do, except pray that she took the information we gave her to heart, thought about all of her options, and made an informed decision. We will send her pamphlets with fetal development on them, if she's willing to take them. Not abortion pictures, fetal development, just to be sure you understand.

We will ask her if it's allright if we follow up, and she will either say yes or no. If she says yes, we will contact her later on to see how she is doing, and if she needs anything.

If she decides to have the abortion, and then later regrets it (this actually happens a lot in the particular women who have aborted, from what I was told by one counselor), we can counsel her and give her a shoulder to cry on, we can try to comfort her. All we can do is do our best in that area....it is very difficult to comfort someone who has lost their child, no matter how they lost their child.

If she decides to go ahead and keep the baby, we will give her doctor referrals, ways that she can get free care if she needs it, and we will offer her maternity clothes, food, and if she needs it, we will find her shelter.

This is not everything, but it's most of the stuff I can think of right off hand....I can get the counselors training manual which would explain more of what we do, if you're interested. It explains a lot better than I can.

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 5:00 PM


Bethany,
Please don't beat yourself up about feeling responsible if that girl ended up having an abortion. From the way it sounded she was already set in her mind about it and there was nothing you could have done to sway her.

I understand, it's just that with life and death of a baby at stake, it's very hard for me to separate it, if I happen to have any kind of involvement. All I can do is my best though, and that's what I intend to do. Thank you for the encouraging words.


Just out of curiousity, I am meaning no disrespect and not looking for something to argue about, but, in the event you come face to face with a woman considering abortion, how would you counsel her? What would you say to get her to see things from your point of view? If she was not a religious person would that change the way you presented your argument?

I just realized that above I didn't fully answer your questions, so I thought i'd do that now.
What would I personally say to get her to see things from my point of view? It really depends on the woman, and how she was coming across, I would guess. I find confrontation extremely hard and I am not sure how I would be able to confront the issue exactly, however, I will follow the guidelines in the CPC, treating her with kindness and respect, and will share from her heart exactly what I think about abortion, and the facts that I know about abortion. This is all I can do.

In some cases, if she is willing, I might show them pictures of my baby who miscarried and give them my personal experience of my loss. Actually, the miscarriage is what got me started in the pregnancy crisis center in the first place. The women there asked me, after giving them pictures of my baby, if I would be willing to volunteer there. :)

I guess the only difference in the way I would approach the subject with a religious person, is that after showing her the scientific facts, I could show her from the Bible how precious children are regarded in God's eyes, and how even from the womb, God has designed us so intricately and we have a purpose from the moment we are created.

I hope this helps!

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 5:14 PM


Hi Bethany, Mary and I wrote to you on the thread below..... d/t earlier comput. malfunction. Well, gotta sign off for a while.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 9, 2007 5:20 PM


Okay I will check it out! I had also replied to Jasper and Hisman in a different thread because earlier this topic wasn't working right. I'm glad all the bugs seem to have been worked out today!

Posted by: Bethany at June 9, 2007 5:34 PM


Yes, Bethany, very helpful.

I was just asking because I know how passionately pro-life you are and I also know that the majority of arguments i've heard against abortions have been from a religious standpoint, so I wondered how you would convince a non religious person that abortion is wrong.

Posted by: JK at June 9, 2007 6:50 PM


JK,

Another thing we do is assess the situation in terms of who is there to support her. Often they haven't told their mothers and sometimes talking as a mother helps them understand that maybe, just maybe, her mother would support her keeping the baby more than she thinks.

Where's the father? Does he know? Does he want the abortion? What exactly is she afraid of? Is there anything positive about being pregnant?

Every single girl is different and you really have to weigh all of her story to determine how to proceed. I can tell you that for every baby saved at the abortion clinic 100 go through with the abortions. Then we're there to offer them a rose and a card that tells where they can call if they need to talk to someone.

We're not ogres. We know that both before AND after and abortion, these women don't need to be judged. They need a friend and they need guidance. They usually feel completely alone and trapped. Sometimes even a stranger is better than being completely alone in what is possibly the scariest moment you will ever have to face.

Of course there are always the girls that point to heaven...with their middle fingers...and their isn't much you can do, except pray.

Just because we are believers doesn't mean we shove it down these girls throats. If they drive in with a rosary hanging from their car, we can assume they are catholic, or a bindi and figure they are Hindu, but for the most part religion is and ending point, not a starting point if it even comes up at all...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at June 9, 2007 8:16 PM


Absolutely, everything that MK said is true. The part about family members is something I forgot to include in my explanation.

And it really depends on the person, how I would have to go about attempting to convince. For instance, all it takes for some people is seeing pictures of fetal development, to change their mind and want to keep the baby. Others, knowledge of how the abortion procedure works is enough.

Some are not decided about their stance on abortion, and some have made up their minds. For the ones who have made up their minds, we simply show them the scientific facts of how life begins when the sperm and egg meet in fertilization, and how they each break down and become one, and from that moment, they are a unique, individual, and complete human being, only requiring oxygen and nutrition to survive. We can show them the fetal development, and tell them when the heart begins beating, how the baby reacts to certain stimuli in the womb, how the baby has taste preferences, how the baby reacts to pain, etc, in the womb.

We can explain to them about the potential consequences of having an abortion.

We can explain to them what kind of support they would have if they chose to keep their baby, or we could explain to them about how the adoption process works.

There are so many unique ladies who come in...no story is the same. Everyone has a different background, and different reasons for believing what they believe. Every conversation will be slightly different. We want to make sure that the girls are taken care of if they do decide to continue their pregnancies, so we make sure to let them know what is out there for them.


In the last 20 years that this particular pregnancy center has been around, there have been many, many women who have changed their minds and have kept their babies, and have come back to the pregnancy center thanking the counselors here for their time and efforts. I have seen many thank you notes from women to the pregnancy center.

And there have actually been a few who came in telling me they had come in for a pregnancy test years ago, and they have brought their child in and say they are thankful for the love and care they received here.

Posted by: Bethany at June 10, 2007 10:23 AM


You know what's sad? The women who could afford the baby, but just doesn't want it. Not all women having abortions are poor and destitute. Plenty of my friends had excellent incomes and support from family, friends, the man involved, etc. They chose abortions anyway. A few women told me that they just wanted sex NOT a baby. I am just so sickened by their insensitivity. How and why do we treat human life with so much disrespect?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 12:57 PM


PIP:
"There is a choice at stake here and these girls made their choice. Why should this kid be angry?"

Right.

What ever happened to the pro-choice rhetoric about "safe, legal, and rare?"

Apparently, "rare" is just a condescending bone thrown in the direction of pro-life, arrogating some kind of high ground. But let "rare" become real, and suddenly the infrequency of abortion choices becomes a cause of great alarm.

Choices are individual. Being "pro-choice" should mean celebrating individual choices. And yet pro-choice seem alarmed at aggregate stats. One would expect less concern about the aggregate balance of choices from folks so ostensibly concerned for the primacy of the individual.

Posted by: rasqual Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 4:27 PM


@HisMan

"Cameron, why do you blog on this site?"

I often ask myself the same. You people are hopelessly immersed in some sort of morality-for-self-promotion bubble. I like to poke at your bubble.

Rest of your questions: SSDD.

@Sandy

"Explain why you think my statement is BS."

Thatís easy. Half of all women seeking abortions were actually using some form of birth control. I.e. in no uncertain terms, saying they are using abortion as birth control means youíre judgmental lil' @#$*!

"You know the drill: Drunken one night stands, unprotected sex, inconsistent BC use etc... etc..."

Sounds like youíre speaking from experience. No wonder no compassion! Fortunately, most women are not as smutty as youíve been, and the responsible ones, including mothers trying to care for a family already, are still getting pregnant by accident, and seeking abortions.

"It brings me to tears that her baby was mutilated and torn out of her body because she was too selfish to do the right thing."

If you havenít guessed by now, your appeals to my emotions are humorous at best, and otherwise annoying. You're not proving anything, itís none of your business, so get over it. Dang! Put in a Julia Robert's movie or something if you need a good cry.

Best,
Cameron

Posted by: Cameron at June 10, 2007 5:25 PM


Cameron, I'd like to know where you got your proof that 1/2 of all women seeking abortions were on B/C. Even if you were to come up with "proof" I wouldn't buy it. I think a lot of women are full of BS. I was reading about a former abortion clinic nurse. She was ragging on abortion patients. She said that a great majority lied about everything. Most denied any kind of drug activity until they saw on their paper work that "death" could be a consequence if this information were withheld. They could lie about being on BC too. It's called Shame.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 6:04 PM


Cameron, you are hopelessly immersed in satan's lies. satan has you in a trick bag. satan laughs at fools like you.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 6:10 PM


Cameron, you blog here because you like us. Face it.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 6:14 PM


The 50% BC statistic is true as far as I know. To me it simply says that Birth Control is NOT the answer to ending abortion.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at June 10, 2007 6:18 PM


"Cameron, I'd like to know where you got your proof that 1/2 of all women seeking abortions were on B/C. Even if you were to come up with "proof" I wouldn't buy it."

LOL... guess I'll just ignore the request then. You're welcome to look for yourself though.

"Cameron, you are hopelessly immersed in satan's lies. satan has you in a trick bag. satan laughs at fools like you."

Handy tautology if you actually believe in christ and satan. When in doubt, invoke the self-affirming supernatural. I laugh at those who buy into such scare tactics (i.e. christians).

"Cameron, you blog here because you like us. Face it."

I do catch myself actually liking y'all sometimes... but don't let it go to your head. ;-)

Posted by: Cameron at June 10, 2007 6:38 PM


"To me it simply says that Birth Control is NOT the answer to ending abortion."

It's certainly not a bad start. You bring up a good point though. A recent study in Scottland found that even the availability of PlanB didn't reduce abortions. The Scotts have got some serious subtance abuse problems though.

Posted by: Cameron at June 10, 2007 6:44 PM


Per Cameron:
"Thatís easy. Half of all women seeking abortions were actually using some form of birth control. I.e. in no uncertain terms, saying they are using abortion as birth control means youíre judgmental lil' @#$*!"

Cameron, you're the statistic genious so understand this study which I have posted before.
It's all pretty clear.

Fifty-four percent of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.[13]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html


The statistics are that (barely 1/2) 54% of women who abort are on birth control but this is taken out of context. In reality a very small precentage use it consistently and correctly.

The vast majority of women who say they are using birth control might as well not be as if you are inconsistent why use it at all.

Like how I sourced the study??? Right from PP

Per Cameron:
Sounds like youíre speaking from experience. No wonder no compassion! Fortunately, most women are not as smutty as youíve been, and the responsible ones, including mothers trying to care for a family already, are still getting pregnant by accident, and seeking abortions.

Actually Cameron, I am speaking from experience.

I never had to lower myself to engage in a one-night-stand. See that's the a "choice" I made.

When I was in a committed relationship I used birth control consistently and correctly the entire time and guess what??
NEVER GOT PREGNANT

If I had, I absolutely would have kept my child.

So no, I really don't have compassion for women who are too lazy or irresponsible to take a simple pill as instructed or stop at a local gas station to pick up a box of condoms.

I have no compassion for women who engage in promiscuous sex, extra marital affairs, one night stands, have multiple partners and
wind up pregnant.

Now I know you are thinking that I was home-schooled and "poor girl never got out much"

I assure you I had plenty of great fun!!


Posted by: Sandy at June 10, 2007 7:01 PM


High five Sandy!

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 7:07 PM


Sandy and Cameron, I know a woman who had 7 abortions! She had to have a hysterectomy due to damage done to her uterus. The hospital told her that the damage was from multiple abortions. Go figure. She did have one living daughter. She openly admitted to these abortions. She made no apologies. So when it came up in conversation one day, I decided to ask her about boyfriends/ B/C. She said that she never used any protection because abortion was always available. She never felt that she had to. As for her partners? All "fly by nights." Yeesh.... no self respect. Not to mention HIV. I currently have a male friend dying of AIDS. Don't people believe it's really out there?

Posted by: Heather4life at June 10, 2007 7:23 PM


Wow Sandy, by the tone or your post, you'd think you were actually trying to counter what I've said rather than reaffirm it.

Posted by: Cameron at June 10, 2007 7:29 PM


Per Cameron:
"Thatís easy. Half of all women seeking abortions were actually using some form of birth control. I.e. in no uncertain terms, saying they are using abortion as birth control means youíre judgmental lil' @#$*!"

I forgot to add last night that your statement above (I'm again choosing to ignore the personal insult) actually supports the fact that women are using abortion as a birth control method.

Even if all 54% of these women used B/C correctly and consistently and it failed, choosing abortion is STILL their choice of birth control. If it were not they would keep their babies. Right??????

These women chose to use abortion as birth control as back up birth control to their primary method which failed or they failed using it properly.

HA!

Posted by: Sandy at June 11, 2007 8:02 AM


Just thougth I would add a side bar in for everyone.

I ran into an old neighbor yesterday who used to live across the street. He had two children and got divorced. He met this great woman who couldn't wait to get married and start a family. She convinced him to sell his house so they could move and start a fresh life together
which was to include children of their own.

All she ever talked about was starting a family.

Well... I knew my neighbor got married, but what I hadn't heard is that he got divorced again.
Shocked!! I couldn't imagaine why.


His new wife got pregnant and then aborted his child without his knowledge. She later admitted it.
Turns out she couldn't handle the stress of kids and didn't want anymore.

Posted by: Sandy at June 11, 2007 8:12 AM


Contraception is used so women won't have babies. Abortion is used after a woman has confirmed her pregnancy. Abortion is then used so the woman wont have a baby. So, abortion = BC.

Posted by: Heather4life at June 11, 2007 8:14 AM


"HA!"

LOL

Posted by: Cameron at June 11, 2007 8:57 AM


Cameron said, "A recent study in Scottland found that even the availability of PlanB didn't reduce abortions."

I have nothing to add to that. Just wanted to savor the sentence.

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