I am being consistent here:

Males who are not responsible enough to take care of the children they father are not worthy to be called men, they are predators, thieves, betrayers of life, the lowest form of human existence.

And men that have encouraged, promoted and not fought against having their children murdered are the worst kind of cowards.

Jesus' warnings that it would have been better for such people to not have been born are well aimed at those who, while being the most able to protect the unborn, choose instead to focus on themselves and their own selfish desires. They should be terrified at their coming destruction apart from repentance and a humble plea for mercy.

right on the money as usual HisMan.

I really appreciate the way this is so telling divorced from any consideration of the fact that... gasp...woman who don't want to have kids might actually want to have sex too.

I suppose reality isn't as exciting as portraying all women not wanting kids but desiring sex as haples puppets/victims of superior controlling men.

I'm sorry you think women are so easily manipulated... and particularly amused that you think men are exclusively in control.

Oh Cameron, There are plenty of women who demand the abortion , and they give the man no say so whatsoever. That's not saying much for them

Cameron,

C'mon. You know that there is a great number of women who would, if they had the support of their husbands and boyfriends would choose not to have abortions. That's reality.

There are also a great number of men, who given the chance, would choose to let their children live and would gladly accept the responsibilty but are given no such choice. What about them? Does being a man mean you have no rights to your own children? Apparently is this day and age the answer is yes.

If men would step up to the proverbial plate of taking repsonsibility, it is my belief that the number if abortions would decrease dramatically.

What if your girlfriend/wife got pregnant and wanted the child. What would you do? If you truly loved her and are as concerned as women as you present yourself to be wouldn't the right thing to do be to have and support the child and the mother?

Don't you think most woman who have abortions weigh all the perceived consequences before having an abortion? Don't you think one of those considerations is how will the child be supported and will the child have a father? I think these questions are mute and should not weigh in on any decision to murder, however, they are questions that go through the minds of most woman who are not wanting to be pregnant.

Why is it that the Pro-Choice crowd thinks there has to be something wrong with a person or just trying to manipulate people when they change their opinions? In 1994 abortion was not the topic it is today. In 1996 the same thing. Alot of people, politicians included, have changed their stance because of the advancement of the ultrasound especially the 4D.

I don't think it has anything to do with being single or married. It has to do with taking in all the facts as they are today and forming an opinion based on those facts. Yesterday's 'facts' are not the same as today's 'facts' when it comes to medicine.

Valerie:

The answer to your question to Pro-Choicers is moral absolutes. Facts can change depending on whose presenting them and how they are perceived. It was a fact in Hitler's Germany that Jews were the cause of all of Germany's problems and should be extermintated. It was a fact in pre-Civil War days that slavery was legal, etc., etc., etc. It is a fact that abortion is legal now in our country despite God's word that teaches that it is an utter abomination to the Lord of Life.

Murder has always been wrong and always will be. Adultery has always been wrong and always will be. Immoral sex has always been wrong and always will be. Homosexuality has always been wrong and always will be. Theft has always been wrong and always will be. Cheating has always been wrong and always will be. Lying has always been wrong and always will be. Unbelief has always been wrong and always will be. Cowardice has always been wrong and always will be. Blasphemy has always been wrong and always will be. Profanity has always been wrong and always will be.

This is becasue the definer of right and wrong is God Himself, who is absolutley holy and does not change like some shifting shadow.

Abortion has always been wrong and always will be.

What if it becomes a fact that abortion somehow extends life expectancy. Should it then become right?

Facts don't make something right or wrong, God's Word does. Now if you tell me that someone has had a change in their belief system, and hence, their attitude about something that has always been wrong, I agree with you. Any other reasons are highly suspicious and we would do well before we put any sort of trust in a leader who has had a change of heart just based on "facts".

Otherwise one is tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and not to be considered faithful until proven as such over a long period of time.

What issue of Rolling Stone is this?

HisMan said: "You know that there is a great number of women who would, if they had the support of their husbands and boyfriends would choose not to have abortions."

I can't believe I'm going to say this ... I agree. I mean, I know that's what I would do--in my current circumstances.

But it depends a lot on the man. Like I said, in my current situation, were I to get pregnant and my boyfriend said he would help me to raise the child and he wanted to, I would keep it.

However, if I don't know the guy well enough, or if I didn't think he would be a good father--I'd opt for something else.

One thing is for sure: at this point in my life I am NOT raising a child alone.

Someone please tell Joe Farah!

Leah: "However, if I don't know the guy well enough, or if I didn't think he would be a good father--I'd opt for something else."

should you be sleeping with this man at all if you don't know the guy well enough, or if you didn't think he would be a good father?

Evil in our time:

http://www.abortionessay.com/files/essay.html

Don’t Rock the Boat
- People who are personally against abortion but vote for pro-choice candidates are included in this group. Many vote for pro-choice candidates because of party loyalty. Unfortunately, one of our political parties has been completely taken over by the pro-abortion movement. People need to be persuaded that the respect for life under God is fundamental. It is the source of our civil rights. Other issues, such as gun control, the minimum wage, or campaign finance reform cannot be, by themselves, reasons to support a candidate. Also in this don’t rock the boat group are people who are personally against abortion but do not feel that it is right to force their views on others. Not forcing views on others was a strategy adopted by the feminist and other radical groups in the 60’s in order to shut out traditional values. They were able to get the churches and other traditional groups of the time to be quiet while they spewed their filthy views on others. Unfortunately, their strategy worked and now our culture is in a state of moral chaos. We need to encourage the good people to stand up for their beliefs. We can reach them with a continual advertising campaign.

"C'mon. You know that there is a great number of women who would, if they had the support of their husbands and boyfriends would choose not to have abortions. That's reality."

C'mon... you know that there is a great number women who wouldn't, even if they had the support of their husbands. That's reality.

Try making a point for once that actually has something to do with what's being discussed. What part of "women who don't want to have kids" do you not understand or are unwilling to actually acknowledge??

About half of the women I've dated did not want to have kids... ever. Saying men use abortion to exlpoit women is seriously condescending and flawed, because... IT'S NOT HIS CHOICE... and if it had been my choice, I think I'd probably have a few kids by now.

Men exploiting women, and vice a versa, has nothing to do with abortion. It happened before abortion, and it will continue to happen if abortion's banned. If you insist that banning abortion is solving all the worlds problems, in no uncertain terms, you are the problem, not abortion.

Leah:

Thanks for being honest.

I know that you (and especially Cameron) don't like what I am going to say (and I understand the reaction based on your perceptions and understandings), however, God designed men to lead and woman to follow. However, before you go bonkers on me, please give me a chance to explain.

In God's eyes, men and women are equal. One is not better or more significant than the other. In fact, He gave probably the most significant job ever bestowed on a human being to a woman, that is, to bear and raise His Son, Jesus Christ. So we know what God thinks about women. Also, read Proverbs 31 and this confirms what God's ideal of a woman is. He has defined our roles though. Remember marriage was designed to make us holy not happy. That's why there are som many divorces, we get it backwards. Happiness only comes as we surrender our wills to His and our spouses in the most sacred of human relationships.

Now for a man to be a proper leader does not mean he has the right to abuse, berate, disrespect, dictate, command or otherwise be a jerk. A leader in God's eyes leads by loving and self-sacrifice as Christ led. He gave Himself for the church, His bride.

A woman will follow any man who leads by Christ's example of love, respect, consideration, fidelity, moral strength, integrity and character. That is by design. Get it wrong and the woman wants to lead, it's a survival mechanism....hence, the rabid defense of women's right to choose depsite teh fact that it's murder. Remember that all diversions from God's expressed will ultimatley lead to chaos, disorder, peversion and always a counterfeit substitute.

It is my beleif that we have an increase in homosexuality because men have not accepted their God-given mandate to lead in a godly fashion. All this macho stuff is not godly, it is destructive.

In fact, husbands are commanded to give up themselves for their wives as Christ did, whereby wives are given no such command. The problem is, the vast majority of men have no concept of what male leadership is and woman, very rightly so, aren't willing to follow them and they shouldn't.

These Hollywood types, rappers, movie stars, etc., are males pathetic. Women would do well to reject all such notions of this male sterotype, unless of course, they want their lives to end in destruction.

God bless you as you seek a godly man to follow, one after God's own heart.

Cameron, you want a wife that's going to blow your socks off, study the life of Christ and apply it to th eway you treat her.

Although I think the woman should discuss the topic of keeping the child or not keeping the child with her husband or boyfriend. I ultimately think it is her decision. Now before you get all hot headed about "he should have a say too!" think about this, what happens if he wants the child aborted and the women does not? I bet you would be changing your tune.

I agree with Valerie, I have changed my thoughts on topics several times. Including the vary topic we talk about here.

Hisman-
I get a little discouraged when people use faith to back up why abortion is not right. "God says it's wrong" "The bible says its wrong" Its great hisman that you have a strong faith but I do not really consider myself to be christian, and really don't believe in the bible. Now you can tell me I'm going to hell and that I am a sinner or that I am selfish. It doesn't matter to me. I love my life and I love who I am. I love my family and friends... I try to be postive and do good things and help people when needed. I think I'm doing pretty good with faith in my life.

Convenience Crowd

- The convenience crowd is made up of morally weak people. They have a hard time determining the differences between right and wrong. They are truly victims of this morally confused age. They have been taught all their lives that there are no absolutes. The members of this group are likely to be swayed by the argument that abortion is somehow good for the unwanted babies. Many men are in this group. They want the freedom to have irresponsible sex and then abort any “mistakes”. They want to escape the paying of child support by destroying the evidence. Tragically, there are probably many parents in this group. They want to be able to abort any “mistakes” made by their teenage girls. Since the convenience crowd has no moral center of their own, they are affected by any loud moral messages. The constant barrage of propaganda from the pro-abortion activists has deadened their moral senses. We can help build their moral backbone with a continual advertising campaign.

"should you be sleeping with this man at all if you don't know the guy well enough, or if you didn't think he would be a good father?"

Yes, of course she should. If she wants to. knowing someone enough to have sex with is a lot different than knowing them enough to raise a child with.

Hal, your post explains exactly why the abortion rate is so high.

Heather, you say that as if it's a bad thing.

Seriously though, I'm not sure that's why "the abortion rate is so high." I'm not talking about sex with strangers without protection. I'm talking about relationships with decent people which don't lead to marriage. I don't know how many of those relationships end up with unwanted pregnancies.

JM -

"think about this, what happens if he wants the child aborted and the women does not? I bet you would be changing your tune."

Why would anyone's 'tune' be changed? I believe that both have a say. I believe that they both participated in this creation. I'm going to really tick some people off with what I'm about to say. If the man wants an abortion and she doesn't, then I think he should have the right to eliminate any form of responsiblity. Just as the woman can eliminate responsibility by having the abortion. No visitations, no child support, no rights to the child. It would be the woman's choice to keep the child. Now what if the man wants the child and the woman wants an abortion? Then I think the woman should have the baby and give the child to him with no responsibilties attatched. It is the man's decision to keep the child. I know many will say 'but it's her body and your going to force her to be pregnant'. But I didn't 'force' her to have sex. It's called consequences of action. Sex doesn't mean procreation, but procreation does mean sex. It's science. You can't change it just because you don't want the consequence.

I agree with you Valerie. The women I knew who had abortions didn't do it because they were poor or destitute. They were all quite well off. Some just didn't want any permanent ties with the man. Others didn't consider it to be a difficult decision at all. The EPT stick turned pink, and they booked the abortion appointment. Just like that.

Praise Alah HisMan... spoken like a true jihadist.

I guess you’re too feeble minded to put the bible in context of when it was written--a very different time, when society was struggling for survival. Or this is your indoctrination rhetoric from your men’s bible study group (aka weak and angst ridden pussy-whipped men support group). You should try something a little more interesting some day....like join a co-ed adult soccer team and get yourself side-tackled by woman.

Fortunately, most modern women don’t subscribe to your particular brand of bible thumping... and people who don’t share your faith, don’t give a rat’s ass about your faith-based-natural-law BS. Wake up!

Where is a man's right to choose in abortion?

Praise Alah HisMan... spoken like a true jihadist.

I guess you’re too feeble minded to put the bible in context of when it was written--a very different time, when society was struggling for survival. Or this is your indoctrination rhetoric from your men’s bible study group (aka weak and angst ridden whipped men support group). You should try something a little more interesting some day....like join a co-ed adult soccer team and get yourself side-tackled by woman.

Fortunately, most modern women don’t subscribe to your particular brand of bible thumping... and people who don’t share your faith, don’t give a rat’s @$$ about your faith-based-natural-law BS. Wake up!

"Where is a man's right to choose in abortion?"

That expired when the church started loosing sway over women.

Cameron, can you elaborate a little more?

Back in the day, a husband could force his wife to abort the baby, and with the sanction of the priest... so long as it was prior to the "quickening"

If, by some miracle of science, it one day becomes possible for men to become pregnant, then a pregnant man has every right to choose whether or not he wants to give birth.

Cameron:

The Apocalypse of Peter (ca. 135)

"I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage and who procured abortions."

2:26

"Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so."

2:64

HisMan: Yes, you're right--but so was Cameron. Sure, if it were me in my current situation I would opt out of abortion if given a good alternative from the man I love. However, it is also true that there are many women who would not do the same.

Jasper said: "should you be sleeping with this man at all if you don't know the guy well enough, or if you didn't think he would be a good father?"

Hal kind of answered that for me. Who I have sex with is my choice. Me, personally, I wouldn't have sex with a guy I don't know (you know, under normal cirumstances). However, being a good father is not the only quality I look for in a guy. So maybe I have this boyfriend who is absolutely wonderful in every way except that he would make an awful father. Is that not possible?

What I "should" or "should not" be doing with my sex life is not up for discussion here, though. I don't want to throw that onto the table to be judged, thank you.

^
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The Bible: good clean family fun!

Darn it Leah, you messed up my cool arrow

;-)

"What I "should" or "should not" be doing with my sex life is not up for discussion here, though. I don't want to throw that onto the table to be judged, thank you."

you brought it up and dicussed your own sitution before anyone asked you!

"Who I have sex with is my choice."

then deal with the possible consequences rather than killing babies....

Abortion is the practice of killing the weakest and most defenseless among us. Yet, tragically, it has been ingrained in our culture. Since the Supreme Court handed down the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, some 50 million abortions have been committed in this nation. iThis is almost a third of the number of live babies born during the same time. If you go to a high school graduation ceremony this year, consider that one third of the graduating class is missing. They were deprived of the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness written about by our founding Fathers in the Declaration of Independence. We are shocked when we read about the human sacrifices of ancient cultures. Yet, our unborn children are routinely sacrificed on the twin altars of feminist ideology and convenience

Jasper

I know--I did not bring up what I should or shouldn't be doing, and *that* is what I don't want being judged by anyone else except me. I just have this vision in my head right now of a bunch of people gathered around a long table discussing what I can and cannot do with my sex life. The visual in amusing and disturbing at the same time. :)

And anyhow, I haven't ever had an abortion--I hope to never be in a situation where one is necessary (yes, I know the necessity it relative), so I haven't "killed any babies" yet. S'all good.

Sorry, JK!!

Jasper: "If you go to a high school graduation ceremony this year, consider that one third of the graduating class is missing."

I know that a big chunk of my college graduating class would have been missing if they did not have a legal right to get an abortion. Many of these young women stayed in college, got their degrees, and are living a happy and productive life, even though they got pregnant by mistake in college.

Hal, see "The convience crowd" up thread....

All is forgiven, Leah

:-)

Valerie, I agree with you completely about men being able to relinquish responsibility for children if they do not want them. I think it would help a lot of children psychologically if they never had to deal with a father who didnt show up for visitation or didnt send child support. I personally feel that being raised in a loving single-parent household is by far preferable to being raised by divorced parents and feeling like a burden.

But then there are people who can't decide whether they want their children or not, which creates all new pyschological burdens.

Like my cousins' father for example. He wanted custody but he didn't want to pay child support or pay for his share of college tuition. He wanted his son to work on the farm for him but he wanted to bail on him otherwise. He could care less about his daughter, except when she was playing golf, and he became such a "pagent mom" about it that it drove her to quit golf altogether, even though she would have likely gotten a scholarship. He is generally nasty to her, and cancelled her car insurance with no warning, threatens her and makes her feel like crap most of the time. But he would raise hell if he wasn't allowed to be "involved"

SamathaT,

here some babies who were killed by the harmless saline abortion we discussed earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0L3ni9Hs

oh goodness, what did I miss??

Yes, Jasper, I see that post. Nicely written, but I disagree completely of course.
I'm not "morally confused," I just disagree with you that abortion is immoral.

Does that make you morally confused? I don't think so. You have your views, I have mine. See? There are no absolutes.

Cameron,

My Bible study consists mostly of retired pro-NFL and MLB athletes, a few bull riders, a few active Cardinals players, and a few Diamondbacks. Some are ex-drug pushing, womanizers and all round bad dudes that were brought to their knees by their sin to a loving Savior. At 40 and 50 years of age, most of these guys could break mine or your neck with one slap of the hand.

I play golf with these guys and most of them can hit the ball 300 yards without trying.

They would laugh at your post. Can you hear me laugh? I can't imagine you saying what you said in your post to them or me face to face without wincing.

I won't sink to your level Cameron of insults and name calling. Is that all you have to give?

And we're not struggling for survival? What, you're gonna live forever? Truth doesn't change Cameron. Someday you will realize that. You're simply too young and immature to know that now.

Hal,

Sorry, your opinions are not absolutes.

God's are however, which you choose to ignore, which, by His definition, is very, very foolish.

Well, I don't scare easy. I'm about as worried about the opinions of your God as you are about the opinions of Apollo. (and for the same reasons)

Hal, I want to ask you a question. You have made your views clear on abortion and the fact that you have no regrets in exercising your right to choose it twice. You are a calm pro choicer in your posts. You aren't like Cameron. You don't stir up trouble. You don't even seem to want to. I want to know what you get out of this site. It's not like likely you are going to convert a RTLer. You could tell me that abortion is okay until you're blue in the face, but I will never agree with you. So, what message would you like to give to me as well as other pro lifers? What would you like us to know? I went to a few pro choice sites and left after making 1 comment. They weren't my cup of tea.

Per Cameron:
"I guess you’re too feeble minded to put the bible in context of when it was written--a very different time, when society was struggling for survival. Or this is your indoctrination rhetoric from your men’s bible study group (aka weak and angst ridden whipped men support group). You should try something a little more interesting some day....like join a co-ed adult soccer team and get yourself side-tackled by woman."

Paging Samantha T., Paging Samantha T.,

Someone has gotten childish here. Where is the outcry?????

Heather, that's a great question, and one I've been thinking about a bit. I don't think I'll convert any pro-lifer, but maybe make some of you guys realize there are decent hardworking Americans who you would otherwise be friends with who have a different view of this issue. It is so easy to demonize those who disagree with you, especially on such emotional issues.

However, what I've learned is that for most (not all) of the pro-life crowd, we disagree about almost everything, not just abortion. Sex before marriage, gay rights, politics, probably even public school education issues. We have completely different world views.

Seeing abortion doctors attacked for Everything, when our abortion doctor was so kind and talented, made me want to defend him. Seeing the sterotypes of the women who get abortions made me want to tell part of my story. Seeing the attacks on gays (who did nothing to cause abortions) made me want to scream.

I find it a bit interesting to hear views that I never encounter from family, friends and co-workders. I humor myself that it might be interesting to you guys to hear my view from time to time.

But, that's probably not why I'm here either.

What would I like you to know? Maybe just that it's not a black and white world, it's a complicated world. I don't think that a majority of Americans will ever stand by and let abortion be banned, but maybe we can work together somehow to reduce the rate of unwanted pregnancies.

Here's what I want you to know: I am proud of my morals, the life I lead, the people I help, the way I raise my daughters, and the decisions I made. I believe that abortion should be legal. I am not seeking forgiveness nor looking for God. Don't assume that the people who don't agree with you (Hisman, this means you) are really like you if they could only admit it and seek salvation.

I have learned from you guys that a portion of the pro-life movement is what I always thought it was (not a compliment) but I've overcome some sterotypes of my own. I've learned your side has some depth and compassion too.

hal, would it be fair to say that maybe we are your cup of tea?

Heather, some of you......

"I won't sink to your level Cameron of insults and name calling."

whend you quit doing that HisMan? Why the sudden change in attitude?

"My Bible study consists mostly of retired pro-NFL and MLB athletes, a few bull riders, a few active Cardinals players, and a few Diamondbacks. Some are ex-drug pushing, womanizers and all round bad dudes that were brought to their knees by their sin to a loving Savior."

LOL... K. I'll take your word for it, though it sounds a bit much, but you have nothing to prove with me, and I apologize for the dig.

My point: Your outdated revisionist Jewish folklore is not widely regarded as any sort of authority for most people in contemporary society. You continue to invoke the bible because you are a)thoughtlesly witnessing because you've been brainwashed to do so to such an extent you can't do anything else or b) genuinely stupid enough to think we actually consider the bible some sort of authority. Your inability to connect with anyone in any way shape or form outside of your narrow lil' personal belief system renders your efforts fruitless and makes you look nutty. In other words, you fall on deaf ears or are preaching to the chior.

Nobody cares what you assume your assumed magic man in the sky might have to say about anything, and you seem kind of socially retarded for not getting that through your thick skull. Try actually making a case for something, someday, at least with how you feel in your heart, rather than regergitating what you've been programed to say.

HisMan,

One last thing. Is that how Jesus talked to people (invoking scripture to answer any and every question)? Nope! He actually talked to them. He blew em away with heartful relevance, which often flew in the face of edicts and dogma.

"I've learned your side has some depth and compassion too."

Yes... not always easy insulting people who just want to save babies. ;-D

Cameron, I know you keep returning because you like us. You enjoy our company. Come now. Posting on a pro choice site would be a bore for you. At least they wouldn't delete your posts.

Cameron, if the ONLY thing they wanted was just to save babies, they would be much easier to take.

It is interesting, however, to "get to know" in the internet sense, some people I would never even bump into in real life. I really imagined Jasper in scratchy black woolen robes in a dark room somewhere muttering to himself. Seeing his photo yesterday with his nice family and in a room with windows was a shock. I wonder that they think about us.

Per Cameron:
"genuinely stupid" "
"you seem kind of socially retarded"
"makes you look nutty"

Again, code blue...paging Samantha T. paging Samantha T.

Hal, I picture you as clean cut and handsome. Sometimes I picture you as a long haired hippie. Cameron, I picture you to be clean cut and nice looking with glasses. I also picture Cameron suffering from road rage.

Hal,
It is so easy to demonize those who disagree with you, especially on such emotional issues.

We don't demonize those who disagree with us, we demonize abortion. There is a difference.

I have a lot of pro-choice friends. I appreciate the good things about them, and pray for the bad.
Not once have I thought, "Oh Hal, that scumbag abortion getter"...I have thought, "Oh God, help that man. He seems so nice. What a shame he can't see the truth!"

I have learned from you guys that a portion of the pro-life movement is what I always thought it was (not a compliment) but I've overcome some sterotypes of my own. I've learned your side has some depth and compassion too.

Well then, learn this. I have never stereotyped the pro-choice side on this site, or anywhere else. But it appears that you have. You even say that we feel that if only you'd believe in God, you'd be just like us! What does that mean.

The only thing we have in common here, is our belief that abortion is murder. The only thing the Christians have in common is that their faith "drives" their lives.

I am nothing like HisMan, he is nothing like Valerie, she is nothing like Jill, who is nothing like Mary who doesn't even come close to resembling Heather. So what exactly do you mean by "If only you'd be like us?"...

Heck, we aren't even from the same Christian churches. Except for the three Catholics, there's not a repeat in churches among us. Methodist, non-denominational...Lauren doesn't even accept the Trinity (not a cut to you Lauren, just pointing out our beautiful "differences"...)

And what exactly did you always think the pro-life side was like?

I am also struck by the fact that you are proud of your morals, the people you help, the way you raise your daughters, and the decisions you've made...by decisions you've made, I assume you're referring to the abortions. Will you tell your two daughters? Your mother? Because I know that when I'm proud of something I've done, I share it with the people that I love most...Or perhaps you didn't mean "proud" of you choice to have 2 abortions, but really meant "comfortable"?

Cameron,

Why is it that you expect Hisman to listen to your dribble with an open mind, meeting you where you live. After all, I'm sure having to listen to your side spout off their hatred and disregard of Something he holds so dear, as well as all of you trying to justify what he considers murder, is just as hard as you meeting him where he lives and accepting that these are the glassed he sees through.

Why do you get the consideration that you won't give him. I don't hear him telling you to quit talking about how abortion is perfectly okay because you can only argue from agnostic, deist or atheist veiwpoints. You see the world the way you see it, and we go there with you. Why can't you do the same?

Perhaps it's because any mention of God rocks your world?

Sandy -LOL! Code blue. MK- Right on! Where is this pic. of Jasper?

Nobody cares what you assume your assumed magic man in the sky might have to say about anything, and you seem kind of socially retarded for not getting that through your thick skull.

Well now Cameron, that's where you're wrong! I myself enjoy reading Hismans comments very much. And I'm sure I'm not alone. Whereas I can't always say the same about yours!

MK, Nope. U R not alone. I like reading them as well.

MK, perhaps I should have been more clear. There are people on this site who are in the pro-life camp who have said things like "all abortionists molest their patients" and things like that I appear to be searching for god and trying to assuage my guilt. I was trying to explain that I appear here to counter things like that (just two of many examples) I never mentioned you as someone who stereotypes others. I know you are nothing like Hisman, and that everyone has their own views, experiences, and religion. That's part of what I was trying to say I get from this site (although obviously I knew it intellectually before).

And although you haven't called me a scumbag abortion getter, similar views have been expressed. Coward, immoral, murderer, weak, and probably scumbag too. I'm not complaining, but there is indeed evidence that some RTL posters do demonize pro-choicers.

Seeing his photo yesterday with his nice family and in a room with windows was a shock. I wonder that they think about us.

We think that you are perfectly normal people who have gotten one idea wrong. We think you are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, poets, bricklayers, cops, college students and teachers.

We think you love and are loved, read books, listen to music, eat onion rings and look forward to the next great movie.

We think you sing in the shower, dunk your Oreos, like clean sheets, call your mother on her birthday and hold doors open for little old ladies.

We think you kiss your little ones goodnight, enjoy comfortable shoes, get headaches, have a preferred toothpaste and like rainbows.

We think you are people who are just like us.

We think abortion is wrong.
We wish you did too.

It's that simple. Now which one of us needs to rethink the other?

hal, I get a sense from your posts that you are NOT at peace with those abortions. All you have to do is get out of satan's trick bag. He hates you! Don't let him continue to use you. You don't have to continue to support abortion. Set you soul free. Repent!

Hal,

"It is interesting, however, to "get to know" in the internet sense, some people I would never even bump into in real life."

Yes, it's kind of weird seeing their pictures and their family, and trying to imagine them calling all women who've had abortions sluts.

Heather,

I am former long hair gone short. While women reaaly liked my hair long, people around here (the south) kind of give me pious attitude, so I cut it.

MK

"We don't demonize those who disagree with us, we demonize abortion. There is a difference."

YOMANK. You all take the cake. I've been on a lot of discussion forumns and I can say with no amount of exageration and a modicum of authority, character attacks and demonizing are pretty much the norm here. Or maybe guys aren't exploiting women because of abortion? Women aren't irresponsible? Abort Dr.s aren't pawns of Satan and demons and what not? I think it was you who said that I'm pro-choice cuz I just want to get some casual sex... etc...

Priceless. That's what I come here for.

Cameron, was I right about the glasses or the road rage. I knew you were from the south cuz you and midnite seem to know one another. My mom and cousins live down south.

Hal,

I think that you misread some of the things said here. Abortion on demand is a cowardly action. That is different from calling you a coward.

We think abortion is an immoral act. That is different that calling you immoral.

and on and on.

In the Catholic Faith we have something called Mortal Sin and something called Venial Sin. Mortal Sin is something so serious that it actually threatens your ability to have a relationship with God...now, or after death.

However, and this is my point, to commit a Mortal Sin, the person must realize and believe that it is a mortal sin. Otherwise he is not held accountable to the same standards as someone who, fully understanding the graveness of his actions, would be.

It is the same when we say abortion is murder. This does not translate into YOU ARE A MURDERER, because if you don't understand that what you are doing is wrong, you are not in the same boat as say a Jeffrey Dahmer. I tried to make this point with Midnite once but all she could here was that women who have abortions are just like J.D...this is not what I meant at all. I simply meant that not understanding that abortion is murder leads one to commit this act without guilt. Which is what a sociopath does. Of course, it doesn't mean you are the same, it simply means that the behavior is the same...

MK,

"Why is it that you expect Hisman to listen to your dribble with an open mind, meeting you where you live. After all, I'm sure having to listen to your side spout off their hatred and disregard of Something he holds so dear, as well as all of you trying to justify what he considers murder, is just as hard as you meeting him where he lives and accepting that these are the glassed he sees through."

Jesus MK... you almost sound reasonable, even though you're defending someone who's trying to impose his relion's authority on everyone.

Thanks Heather, that's exactly the kind of post I was trying to explain to MK. (If only I would believe in god I'd be one of the good guys.)

Thanks also MK. I think I was saying, in response to why I'm here, is that I have learned to "rethink the other." And, I'm not sure everyone here has the same chartiable view of us that you do.

Hal,

I think that you misread some of the things said here. Abortion on demand is a cowardly action. That is different from calling you a coward.

We think abortion is an immoral act. That is different that calling you immoral.

and on and on.

In the Catholic Faith we have something called Mortal Sin and something called Venial Sin. Mortal Sin is something so serious that it actually threatens your ability to have a relationship with God...now, or after death.

However, and this is my point, to commit a Mortal Sin, the person must realize and believe that it is a mortal sin. Otherwise he is not held accountable to the same standards as someone who, fully understanding the graveness of his actions, would be.

It is the same when we say abortion is murder. This does not translate into YOU ARE A MURDERER, because if you don't understand that what you are doing is wrong, you are not in the same boat as say a Jeffrey Dahmer. I tried to make this point with Midnite once but all she could hear was that women who have abortions are just like J.D...this is not what I meant at all. I simply meant that not understanding that abortion is murder leads one to commit this act without guilt. Which is what a sociopath does. Commit acts that other people would feel guilt for, but not feeling guilt themselves. Of course, it doesn't mean you are the same, it simply means that the behavior is the same...

Hal, sorry. I forgot you were agnostic. Where you always?

"Cameron, was I right about the glasses or the road rage. I knew you were from the south cuz you and midnite seem to know one another. My mom and cousins live down south."

Perfect eyesite. Not from the south... yankee transplant, trying to make it a home.

"It is the same when we say abortion is murder. This does not translate into YOU ARE A MURDERER,"

People here, not you perhaps, have indeed called me a murderer (and a coward, and immoral). I don't have time to look back and find them all. Just a few minutes ago I was told I was being used by Satan. Again, I'm not complaining. I wouldn't be here if I had thin skin.

Well good luck with the transition. I'm a yankee.

Hal,

I think they do, they just don't know how to express it...it comes off all wrong.

If I was standing in the road and a semi was coming at me, and you and group of your friends were on the side of the road telling me to get out of the way, but I wasn't listening, I'm sure you would all yell louder and do everything you could to make sure I didn't get hurt or killed. Some of you might even rush out and push me out of the way.

Well, to our mind, you guys are standing in front of that semi...And we are just trying to keep you from getting hurt. But the louder we yell, the more you dig in your heels and say that there is NO SEMI...

Now forget about whether or not there is a semi...just realize that everything that is said here, right or wrong, agreed with or not, everyone is actually doing what they believe would be most beneficial to you.

I know you don't understand that, or see it that way, but they aren't "calling you names" because they don't like you...they are calling out to you because they like you very much...even if it seems like they abhor you...

And for the record, what if they are right? What if there is a Semi comin' at you?

Wouldn't you be more upset, agreed or disagreed, if there was a semi and they all just stood by and watched you get decimated?

Thanks Heather,

When in Rome...

Today I had battered and fried zuchini spears. adding that to the list of southern fried fare; green tomatoes, oysters, okra (sucked), corn on the cob, and pickles (hyper salty).

I've been in satan's trick bag before myself. I was only trying to be helpful!

Heather, I'm not an agnostic (not that there's anything wrong with that ;) )

I'm an atheist. Was I always one?

As far back as 1772, d'Holbach said that "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God"

I had a small bit of religous upbringing at the insistance of my parents but they didn't seem to believe it (just doing what they thought was the "right thing" I suppose) and it didn't catch.

I don't think I ever believed in God as you guys would view it. Nor will I ever, I'm sorry to inform you.

Oh, a Seinfeld fan?

There you go Hal,

They're just trying to save you from being aborted.

There are women who would choose abortion on their own, you realize. Not all women are brainlessly led by their male counterparts. Some women, believe it or not, are quite capable of choosing whether or not to procure an abortion without considering how or if it will impact their relationships or lack thereof.

Cameron and Hal,

My Daddy created the Universe. He is not bound by space and time. He can make my body immortal. He can also throw me into Hell forever. I choose to respect Him. Zeus and Apollo and magic man are not terms I would use to describe Him. In fact, knowing who He is which is the "I AM", I don't think I would take the luxury of wagging my tongue in such a way knowing that He has the power of life and death over me.

Hal, you just can't imagine how stupid you seem to me when you equate Jesus Christ and Apollo and Zeus. It really makes you look incredibly ignorant, however, I will bear with you. You obviously think you're a good guy. Why do you need to keep proving it to us? God's words and standards will NOT change because you think you're a good guy. Sorry, you don't run things. Nor have you written a book containing 66 books by numerous authors over 4,000 years. Nor di you live a perfect life and then die on a cross fro me and the world. Like me, you're just a speck in the universe, who appears as a vapor in the scheme of time, who's got one chance to make it to eternal life.

In fact, the deriders of Christianity, be it the Romans of 2,000 years ago, or the Communists of 100 years ago or the ahteists of ten minutes ago are all the same. You are God's enemies and don't even know it. You stand on the precipice of eternal annhilation and aren't aware of it. What kind of man would I be if I didn't warn you? How would I face The Man knowing what I kow and opposing you at every instance?

If you want to know the truth, get off of this site and start reading the Bible. Study it, ask questions, wrestle with it. I have done that for more than 30 years and am convinced that every bit of it is true. Jesus Christ is alive and well. He is the Son of God. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I don't diss what you study Cameron, what is it microbiology or something? How much time have you spent studying the Bible? If I did the same to you visa vi your field of study, you would look at me as if I were an idiot, no an imbecilec child, and laugh with pity. I don't say things like there's no such thing as a cell wall or mitochondria, etc., etc., etc.

Where's the proof of Christianity? I'll tell you where. It's in the evidence of changed hearts and lives of the great cloud of witnesses throughout the ages. "I once was blind but now I see, once was lost, but now am found, amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me".

I don't blog on this site for any other reason than to help those who want to find the truth. Cameron, you know how we Christians all feel and think. Why do you keep battling us? What is the point?

Cameron,

Seeing his photo yesterday with his nice family and in a room with windows was a shock. I wonder that they think about us.

Jesus Cameron... you almost sound reasonable, even though you're defending someone who's trying to impose his lack of religious authority on everyone.

By insisting that abortion remain legal, Cameron, you are actually imposing your atheistic views on us. And by constantly attacking our faith(s) you are actually shoving your lack of faith down our throats.

My point was that while we try to change your mind (as in debate), we never ask you to refrain from sharing your view of God with us. (Except when you say completely reasonable things like "all pro-lifers should get abortions") Yet you want us to stop sharing ours...

HisMan,

My God loves abortion. I'm certain of it. I believe in him, and therefore I also know in my bones that he loves abortion. You've been fooled by satan. That's not the real god you're worshiping... not the gnostic god that is within us. It is the trickster, not a god, that requires a fools text in order to be known.

Does that mean anything to you HisMan? Do you see what I'm doing?

"I don't diss what you study Cameron, what is it microbiology or something?"

I don't impose biology on you as a moral system you must abide by or otherwise consider you deeply flawed for not embracing it like I do. BTW... it's not my "belief system"... it's called an occupation.

"How much time have you spent studying the Bible?"

Not much recently. Every now and then I pull it out of drawer and throw a verse at someone though.... or I go to this great web site where you can compare like fifty different versions for the supposed same words of god. Fascinating stuff.

"If I did the same to you visa vi your field of study, you would look at me as if I were an idiot, no an imbecilec child, and laugh with pity."

If you haven't noticed, I sort of feel that way about you already. Actually, I've seen the glimer of intelegence, and know you're not an idiot. Which is why I find it annoying as hell when you seem to be running on autopilot much of the time... god this... god that.. jesus this... etc. Freak'n talk to us, and stop proselitizing at us. I wouldn't care if I didn't actually know you can.

Once again, my constantly ringing phone @ work made me miss all the fun. d@mn phone, and now I am bored (& bloody hot). Anyone know a "good" rain dance and I can do to bring some showers my way, lol?

"I don't say things like there's no such thing as a cell wall or mitochondria, etc., etc., etc."

Tee-hee HisMan, for some critters, there really is no such thing as a cell wall or mitochondria. :) Bacteria lack mitochondria and animals and many protists lack cell walls.

Sorry for being nit-picky, I just thought I would point out that what you said is actually true in some cases. :D

Midnite,

Try this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk_OyCyH12Y

Once again, my constantly ringing phone @ work made me miss all the fun. d@mn phone, and now I am bored (& bloody hot). Anyone know a "good" rain dance and I can do to bring some showers my way, lol?

The drought here has sure been miserable. It would be wonderful to get some showers. My little garden is failing miserably. lol

The one good thing about it is that we haven't had to mow the lawn in a few weeks! It hasn't even been growing!

Hey Midnite... Samantha T's got some rain she might be able to send your way.

"Hal, you just can't imagine how stupid you seem to me when you equate Jesus Christ and Apollo and Zeus. It really makes you look incredibly ignorant, however, I will bear with you"

I'm not equating. Just using that example to try to impress upon you that you look just as incredibly ignorant to me. I don't think you know that.

Anyway, it's been fun. I think I have no more to add. I'll stop by and see what's up from time to time.

Best wishes to all of you.

H

"Jesus Cameron... you almost sound reasonable, even though you're defending someone who's trying to impose his lack of religious authority on everyone...."

LMAO.

That's pretty weak and desperate MK. Can't you do better than a non-argument as argument. Feel like I'm discussing negative space in an art class or something (where it's actually meaningful). To your credit however, I've considered picketing churches during mass. Haven't done it yet though... as I'm not emotionally prepared to dodge molatov cocktails and bullets. It always amazes me how quick the pious are to abondon sanctity of life.

Bethany-

You're in Bama too right? (Or was that someone else from this board?) This drought is killing me! I seriously think I am going to die from the heat!!

Today it was like a bazillion degrees here in Minnesota...I felt like was going to die as I walked from class to the bus stop so I could get to the St. Paul campus to go to work. Then I find out it was barely 90 degrees today...but that's 15 degrees too warm for me anyway!

HisMan--

You will NEVER get ANYWHERE if you keep trying to convince Cameron (or any other person who doesn't believe in God, for that matter--but just as an example) of your side by religious reasons.

You could come up with the most brilliant argument that is absolutely irrefutable--but if it has a basis in the Bible or in religion at all IT WILL NOT WORK.

Imagine if someone came up to you with a mathematical equation that proved that God didn't exist. The math was perfect. You cannot deny what it shows--would you accept it?

I can tell that you're a man of infinite faith in God. I do not doubt that you would not believe this equation for a second.

Mind you, I'm not saying your arguments (or anyone's for that matter) are perfect--this is hypothetical.

We all need to learn to speak each others' languages. Cameron will never convince you of anything based solely on biology, and you will never convince him of anything bases solely on religion. It is useless to try.

Bethany-
You're in Bama too right? (Or was that someone else from this board?) This drought is killing me! I seriously think I am going to die from the heat!!

Yeah it's me, and the other day, after we went canoeing, we went to a park....it got so hot that I fell to the ground ... I thought I was going to pass out. James decided it was time for us to go at that point. lol

I love the HOT. I'm a freeze baby, and thrive at about 90F. I am slowly learning that it's also a lil' dangerous though. I almost passed out while working with a chain-saw out in the yard. That could've been ugly. Just got all wooozy suddenly and had to go inside and sit under the air conditioner for awhile.

@Cameron: Are you like e. coli with your love for 90 degree weather? Tee-hee. I hate the heat. I prefer to be cold. I

Cameron, that does sound pretty dangerous. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Me Need Food!! :-)

At 90 I would be looking for a place with some A/C.....

In Kentucky our weather is mostly bi-polar. We had a horrible ice storm one year on a Sunday and by Thursday it was 65 degrees (but my power was still out). In the summer it usually stays hot, however.

Bethany is your husband/boyfriend's name James? (B/C that's my boyfriend's name too)...

JK, that sounds like New England the other 3 seasons of the year other than summer XD

Midnite, we're having barbeque for supper....you're welcome to stop by. ;)

Yes, that's my husband's name! :)

Food's a good idea.

Cameron, how do you know your god loves abortion? Where has he revealed that to you and others? Has he appeared in bodily form? Did your god change the world? Did he heal the sick, raise the dead, make the lame walk and the blind to see? I understand that an anti-Christ will appear someday and will be able to do all these things as well, however, will you be able to recognie him and therefore save yourself from his trap?

Cameron, yes you do impose biology as a moral system. Your god, science, tells you that a baby in the womb is a blob of cells no better than the snot out of ones's nose and can therefore be treated as such. Hence, we have legalized abortion.

It's not that God's words change, the way people communicate changes over time and history and from culture to culture, even within the same country. If one truly wanted to glean God's meaning, they would learn Hebrew and Greek and read for themselves in the original languages. I mean thr words internet, e-mail, blogging, etc. didn't exist when I was a twenty-something.

Cameron, thanks for the concern, however, I can assure you I don't run on autopilot. I know it seems that way to non-believers, however, it's called the Holy Spirit. We are many but of one body. I can assure you that my faith is my own. I left the faith I was born into and then searched God out or I should say He put a fire in me to seek Him out. I merely did not quench it.

No Cameron, I am no follower on autopilot, a robot just spewing whatever religious gobbledegook I hear. To be honest there's not many people whose words I trust. I examine everything. I take stances where others are afraid to. I started two businesses on my own when I could have been a successful corporate engineer. I could have never done this without faith in God to pull me through the lean years of starting out and then the difficulty in maintaining.

In high school I was in a gang that even thirty years ago would have been considered extremely violent. We did everything. Drugs, sex, rock and roll, high speed chases, gang fights. Had I been a true follower, on autopilot as you suggest, I'd be dead like most of my friends.

Perhaps it is my fault for not revealing who I am on this site, however, the subject is after all, abortion. The conversation usually takes on a combative tone and there's no privacy. It's like the old party line phone systems where all your neighbors could listen in on your phone conversations. Therefore, the communication quality is diminished.

I will try harder ot be more real and your point is well taken and understood. I will put more effort and thought into future responses.

By the way, I think you are very intelligent as well, a fighter, and courageous and I really believe that you will discover God and it will change your life.

mmmmm BBQ. A southerner's caviar.... Sounds tempting.

Cameron will never convince you of anything based solely on biology

Well actually...

Cameron will never convince you of anything. Period.

I love the HOT. I'm a freeze baby, and thrive at about 90F. I am slowly learning that it's also a lil' dangerous though. I almost passed out while working with a chain-saw out in the yard.

almost?

Dang!

Everybody,

Don't get you drawers in a knot...Cam is looking for some good bantering and I'm just givin' to him.

I'm not serious, Cam knows it, and we're just playing.

Awww, MK, that wasn't very nice... :-p

What wasn't Rae,

The explanation or the fact that I was disappointed that Cam didn't pass out with his chainsaw?

Leah:

Let me repsectfully disagree with you.

God's word is a two edge sword dividing down to the very bone morrow exposing the very secrets of one's heart.

Also, He does not send His word out for nothing but it accomplishes the purposes for which is was sent.

I will never stop using God's word to answer and refute the arguments put forth on this site for abortion. I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation.

You see, Leah, I have studied the Bible for thirty years. Because of that I have the mind of Christ. I am above and not below. I am the head and not the tail. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I am more than a conqueror. I am a child of God and have eternal life. I know what the Word says about believers and about God's enemies.

I also have been hearing all the arguments for abortion. Not one of them makes sense in light of God's word.

And if you think that the abortion industry isn't religionized think again. They have slogans: "pro-choice, bodily autonomy", which are spewed like gospel truth. They've got sacrifieces: teh babies they murder. They've got apologists: pro-choicers. They've got a liturgy and temples of worship: abortion clinics. They've even got denominations: Planned Parenthood. And even a priesthood: abortionists. Who is their god, it is satan himself. And it's followers: the Church of Abortion.

I am only repsonsible fro speaking the truth not for its results. That's up to God. he can change Cameron's heart in a nano-second and I beleive He will. I am not sure how or what circumstances he will use, but i know that God loves him, and wants to use his superior intellect. It would be a huge waste if Cameron didn't find his true purpose.

I will continue to use God's word as I prefer to term it and not religion. So, as far as that goes I agree with you. However, I will not stop speaking God's words to any who will listen, hear, and be healed of satan's grip on their souls. This is not about me, this is about Jesus Christ.

@MK: I was just teasin'. Your explanation wasn't up when I posted, we must have posted at the same time. :) It was kinda funny though.

I think I have an "emoticon addiction". Sad day...

I wish Jill had fun interactive emoticons....

Midnite, aww you were too late! Maybe next time! :)

http://www.preciousinfants.com/bbq.jpg

yummm

*tear slides down face*

How far are you from the Ham anyway?

Oooooo.....

Bethany you should send one of those my way!

:-9

About an hour or an hour and a half away, I think ;)
If you ever want, you're welcome to meet me at Sportsman's lake one day, if you ever want to (Since you said you come there every so often). We could chat a little, get to know each other a little better. It's really tough to really understand people from a computer screen. Real life is so much better.

JK, I'll get one out in the mail to you first thing tomorrow morning. :-P

Make sure to freeze pack it....lol

Ok--Will do!

Sportsman Lake? Where is that? Is it Logan Martin, Martin, Lay Lake or a lake I've never heard of. I am down for meeting in life. I'm sure I look nothing like you imagine though (no tail or horns to speak of)

:-)

Rae,

Thank goodness. I wouldn't want you to think I really wanted Cam to pass out with a chain saw...I mean I really would like it, I just wouldn't want you to know that I do.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=39172363&albumID=0&imageID=1691344

That might work, dunno.

Anybody live in Florida?

Midnite, I don't imagine you that way at all... as for some of the things that are supported by pro-choice...yeah, I see those things that way...but I do not think of you or anyone here that way. People are one thing, ideals are another. ;-)

I thought it was Sportsman's lake...maybe it was Smith lake? In Cullman... remember now?

Thank goodness. I wouldn't want you to think I really wanted Cam to pass out with a chain saw...I mean I really would like it, I just wouldn't want you to know that I do.

ROFL :D

nope. how are y'all posting pic's that dont require a password? I am confused (& yet was raised on computers)

*feels dumb*

midnite, right click the pic your trying to send and click "copy image location" and then paste it and it should work fine :)

Hi Bethany , Midnite...

Yes I know where Smith Lake is. Havent been there since I was a freshman in high school though. That's where my boss stores his boat in dry storage. He's got this awesome Malibu Wakeboarding Boat ($70 G's), but I am in *love* with it (or maybe just in love with wakeboarding itself?)

Midnite,
As long as your not in love with your boss!

Hi Jasper. :)

..there no good BBQ places up here...we'll maybe one..

MK~

Nope, my boss is my boyfriend's best friend, and I am really good friends with his wife and their child *loves* me. So no worries, I only love James (aka Jaime), my BF

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/midnite678/

maybe this will work...

photobucket ALWAYS works, lol

http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/midnite678/

aha. I think I finally got this crap figured out...

Ashley,

You sparkle. But you have very odd taste in Jewelry. So does you boyfriend. Your necklaces are kind of large?

Seriously,
Aren't you pretty! Sure you don't want Son No.2?

oh MK, it was Fat Tuesday, so we had to wear the Mardi Gras Beads!!

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq_Owner/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Wedding/TandS1%20(186).jpg

mk, thats not gunna work ;)

mk, not gunna work, have to host your picture somewhere

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq_Owner/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Wedding/100_02321.jpg

wow, dunno why it posted like that, woops

mk, go to http://imageshack.us/ and upload it, then copy and paste the link

Bummer! How do you do that? Never mind. They're not important. Just thought since we were sharing...

Forgot I had image shack, duh. MK this is my goddaughter I was telling you all about one day...

hmmm, didnt work...

Cameron, come on. After I stood up for you, you go calling people names again? Youre making me look bad, here. How are the pro-lifers supposed to be civil to you when you go provoking their wrath?

[IMG]http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8387/reganandmetq8.jpg[/IMG]

maybe??

gotta use html code

*about to get angry*

where is it???

hmm my pics didnt post, may as well try again.

I like these few pics of me:

http://photos-321.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v55/68/49/1237320321/n1237320321_30073987_9980.jpg

http://photos-321.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v74/68/49/1237320321/n1237320321_30140193_2263.jpg

http://photos-746.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v72/68/49/1237320321/n1237320321_30126746_7590.jpg

Midnite,

you looking fine girl......you and bethany, model material. Actually all the girls here look nice.

html code is the

gah, didnt put in a wrong character

close the tag and take out the exclamation point, lol

curses, wont let me do it >

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8387/reganandmetq8.jpg

^ Thats my goddaughter and me at the lake last summer

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7687/jamesandme28of.jpg

^ Thats me and the boyfriend (no large jewlry MK)

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2644/p9270033ez0.jpg
^ me and a friend being goofy DD's @ a bar

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2683/p1010012fj1.jpg
^at the lake playing with sparklers

Dan,

are you the same Dan as Erin's boyfriend?

omg, I think the site just deleted all the pics I had posted, NO FREAKING WAY and they were the cutest ones too

no jasper, i am not the same dan

Okay, I am trying this one last time:

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2683/p1010012fj1.jpg
^@ the lake playing with fire, lol

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2644/p9270033ez0.jpg
^Me and my friend being goofy DD's at the bar one night

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2130/p1010014tz4.jpg
^My favorite soldier :-)

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8387/reganandmetq8.jpg
^Me and my goddaughter playing in the lake last summer

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7687/jamesandme28of.jpg
^Me and the boyfriend (no big jewlry MK, I promise)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8612/p9270021vo6.jpg
^Still no goofy jewlry.

Oh goody, now they're going to appear like three more times b/c I have NO patience, sorry, but enjoy :-) (no horns or tail)

Dan,

Are you the original Dan? We've missed you. There was an imposter here for awhile and it took us a little bit to realize it wasn't you...

Can't figure out how to work the imagethingy you sent me to. Logged in okay, but don't have a clue what to do now...

if anyone else is having issues, commenting (which ive been having for some reason within the past 5-10 min) sign into typekey, that seemed to help a lot

i am the original dan, been busy lately. My finals start tomorrow too :(

i had an imposter? you sure? I came back sometime last week i think....

Midnite, you are really pretty. It's nice to put a face to you and others here.

Don't worry, I don't think those extras will show up...your first one didn't publish at first because it had so many links. I had to publish it for you. The blog system automatically assumes that posts with lots of links are spam, so they have to be manually published when that happens.

oh, MK, your on image shack? just click browse, choose the pick you uploading, and hit upload or something of that sort, and it should give you a link that you can copy and paste

Oh ok Bethany, well I added some more to my second post I think. No spam, I promise :-)

ah bethany, makes sense.

Good spam defense i must say ;)

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10002321nw3.jpg

okay I published it ;)

Well,
By now you've all probably gone to bed, but there I am. Whew! Not sure it was worth it!

lmfao MK! funny pic!

Thanks Dan. For your help and your comment...

And to think, I was dressed up for this picture. You should see me when I don't look so good!

i feel like all my pics were too serious now, hmm, maybe ill go find some funnier ones...

Yea, we did Dan, he's been fighting with me for a while now....

Dan, from what I can see from your blog, you're a "pro-choicer" as well, whatever that means. Pro-choicer for what? to choose what % you pay in taxes?

jasper, i have fought with you before, I do know that much.

And for the record. It isnt just "my blog" I am one of many who post there, though none of us have posted for awhile.

ok, MK or Bethany, please help me figure out how to sign in to typekey. I am a registered user, but I am having a blonde moment and cant figure it out ;-(

MK: wow, another babe...... there are all babes here commenting....

what's more important is what's in their hearts though....

http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tands1186qs3.jpg

Here I am, a little more serious.

http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jdizzleeb0.jpg

and here's the baby of the family...as you can see, we're all nuts!

Let's call this (Thompson on abortion) what it is: Flip-flopping.

Midnite,

You are prob. already signed into typekey or you wouldn't be able to post...no?

http://photos-683.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v77/212/86/1237320004/n1237320004_30137683_3269.jpg

little bit less serious pic of me^

typekey restriction isnt on MK, you can tell when they are signed in, they have the little talking guy next to their name

um, I dont know. Do I have a little typekey thing next to my name??

Rank flip-floppery.

Jasper,

I have a wonderfull heart, ask any of my friends or family FYI.

Midnite, go to:

https://www.typekey.com/t/typekey/register?lang=en-us

Enter all the info... then click "sign up"..your login info should be sent by email and you can login that way...hope that helps!

"Jasper,

I have a wonderfull heart, ask any of my friends or family FYI."

I'm sure you do, now we just have to get you to be a pro-life advocate.

ok all, well i think im off to bed, i have finals starting tomorrow morning.

Hope you enjoyed all the pics of me. I think I look like santa in two of them XD

gnight all

Bethany,

tis not woring. *humph*.

Jasper,

I think you're barking up the wrong tree buddy. I am a wonderful person if you get to know me. You just cant seem to look past my opinion on something and see me for who I am. Tis too bad for you though.

Good-luck Dan, get some sleep

Dan,

You are adorable! You remind me of my Kevin. He is my saving grace after the first three...

Wish I had a daughter to sell. She's still to young. No one would buy my son!

Heres Kevin:
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tands145mi4.jpg

Don't ask about the hair...He and Michael were going for the Peter Brady award.

he is a cutie MK

he is a cutie MK

Dan,

You are like a computer Genius...

Jasper,
Thanks for putting me in the same category as Bethany and Ashley (wink, wink). You sure know how to make an old lady feel good.

ahahahaha, I figured it out, but it's in the preview mode. oh well.

Sorry about the double post guys...

yayayayay for me! I dont feel so stupid now ;-)

Jasper,

I think you're barking up the wrong tree buddy. I am a wonderful person if you get to know me. You just cant seem to look past my opinion on something and see me for who I am. Tis too bad for you though.

Midnite I honestly don't think he's saying you're not a great person. It sounds like he's just saying he'd love to have a nice person like you on our side. I know I would!

"Jasper,

I think you're barking up the wrong tree buddy. I am a wonderful person if you get to know me. You just cant seem to look past my opinion on something and see me for who I am. Tis too bad for you though."

I wasn't being smart Midnite, I believe you when you say you have a big heart.

Now, we just want you to follow your conscience and come over to the pro-life, you know abortion isn't right....

Hey that's great that you got it, Midnite! Maybe you can help Heather with it now...I know she was having difficulties with it too.

"You sure know how to make an old lady feel good."

your not close to an old lady... MK, when my sons are your sons age, I'll be close to an old man..

OK, I am off to bed. I shall see y'all in the morning!!

Jasper,

I'm close to one now. He's called my husband. Seriously, I'm comin' up on 50 and it's just hitting me that I'm not the same age as Midnite, Rae, Bethany, Valerie, et al. I could have sworn I just turned 23 last year...maybe the memory is going...

I was 42 when I had that last one. So in 10 years you'll be as old as I am now, and your son will be the same age as my "median" son...If you'll be old then, then I am old now...

At any rate, this old lady is ti-ti. We're leaving on vacation Friday, for two weeks and I've been going nuts trying to get ready...Because of my leg I didn't think we'd get to go, but it's healing so well, we decided to chance it. Disney, Sanibel, here I come...

Goodnight all,
Dream sweet!

MK, LOL.... me and my brother are 20 years apart, he's 59.

Jasper,

I won't ruin your image of all of the ladies commenting here being babes by adding my picture to the mix. Rather than babe, I would qualify as old broad. My son saw a picture of me over thirty years ago, ok, well over thirty years ago, and said I was a "babe", then. My daughter was mortified. You NEVER call your mother a babe she said! The pictures I have seen on this thread are all of very attractive women, and nice looking guys too!
Its really nice to see faces to the names. I feel a more personal bond with all of you when I see the pictures.

Goodnight MK, have a nice vacation, I think the youngsters went to bed...

Since we're sharing....

Darren, the boyfriend.

The next few are me and were taken long after I removed the metal from my face (I used to have my eyebrow pierced).

Mary, haha!! I'll take your son's word for it....

...anyways, it's whats on the inside that matters the most....

Let's call this (Thompson on abortion) what it is: Rank flip-floppery.

Jasper,

Thank you, but you are entirely too kind.

And if anyone could approve my comment, that would be awesome :D.

I'm not sleeping...I should be reading about NMR for lab tomorrow, but it's sooooo boring. I don't care about how a proton changes its spin in a magnetic field when hit by a pulse of radiation!

And that is why I'm an English/Literature major, Rae :P.

I'm done with my science classes. I only needed the basics.

Wootka!

Rae,

that important to know actually, I work on Ion-beam generators, we implant P/N type ions into silicon wafers, thus changing the molecular structure to form transistors. which in-turn make memory (IC's)chips for computers, cpu's etc....

@Heather: I like science...just not this type. I mean I love chemistry, like...writing down reaction mechanisms is really fun for me, but NMR and all the spectroscopy stuff used to ID various chemical compounds just bores me...the computer can just tell me what the darn stuff is, why should I have to know how it's done?

I'm not a fan of biology at all. It just doesn't interest me, and I was rather peeved when I found out I couldn't substitute it with chemistry when I was majoring in psychology (I knew of several people who were able to).

And chemistry...the only thing I really, really liked was balancing chemical equations.

I was good at that.

And for anyone wondering...this is Heather B. I just signed into my TypeKey account, something I usually forget about.

Heather, are you PC or PL ?

@Jasper: That is really neat...but I think that's more physics oriented is it not? Physics and I get along about as well as Cameron and HisMan do on a *bad* day. :-p Besides, I'm going into public health, not something that really *needs* to know how to interpret NMR spectra. :)

@Heather: I was pretty good at balancing equations as well, but I must say I really enjoy organic chemistry a lot more than general chemistry.

Jasper,

I'm pro-choice, and I'll leave it at that. I don't really feel like getting into my reasons behind my stance, especially as I'm not too eloquent when it comes to debate.

Rae,

I've never taken an organic chemistry course. Actually, the last chemistry class I took was in high school.

I'll take books over chemicals any day.

"@Jasper: That is really neat...but I think that's more physics oriented is it not? "

yes, that's correct Rae.

"Jasper,

I'm pro-choice, and I'll leave it at that."

Ok, it's too late to have a good fight anyways...haha.

@Jasper: Physics makes my soul cry. I'm so annoyed that I have to take it *again* in college but this time it has to be calc-based...argh, shtoopid bachelor's of science.

"Ok, it's too late to have a good fight anyways...haha."

Heh. I'm usually too tired to get into a good debate no matter what. I tend to stay up all night and sleep for most of the day, and I've gotten very little sleep the past week or so.

I wish I didn't have to work. Blah.

@Rae, just do your studying and you'll be Ok. Try to review the material before the course starts, that seem to work for me, then I was prepared with questions, etc....

Good-Night

joining the picture posting party:

This was taken in the middle of a plantation village in Zanzibar in Africa - Im sure you can all guess which one is me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/spiceplantation.jpg

More from Africa:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/masai.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/village.jpg

And some others just for fun -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/MeSpur.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/scomanda1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/weddingus.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/medrum.jpg

with my baby...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/meanguslivingroom.jpg

joining the picture posting party:

This was taken in the middle of a plantation village in Zanzibar in Africa - Im sure you can all guess which one is me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/spiceplantation.jpg

More from Africa:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/masai.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/village.jpg

And some others just for fun -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/MeSpur.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/scomanda1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/weddingus.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/medrum.jpg

with my baby...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/meanguslivingroom.jpg

I'm joining the picture party. The first two are me (after the metal was taken out of my face and the piercing healed up), and the last is my lovely boyfriend.

Or not.

Nevermind.

Here's the fam:

Here's the fam:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z85/hisman_ixoye/Picture.jpg

Why in the world are my photobucket links not working for me?

Goodness, this is irritating.

I'll try again. If it doesn't work...grrface.

The first two are me. The last one is my wonderful boyfriend :D.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/nonungoth/yellowshirt.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/nonungoth/170561846_564927128_0-1.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/nonungoth/052707_1953a_edited.jpg

Here's my youngest son with Pete Rose:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z85/hisman_ixoye/IMG_0069.jpg

Here's a tribute photo from Prsident Bush to my oldest son:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z85/hisman_ixoye/PrezBush.jpg

Here's my oldest son's graduation photo from the US Air Force Academy:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z85/hisman_ixoye/USAFAGraduation.jpg

Here's a photo of my son right before taking off in his E-8 J-Stars in a Mission over Iraq.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z85/hisman_ixoye/flying_plane.jpg

"Dan,

Are you the original Dan? We've missed you. There was an imposter here for awhile and it took us a little bit to realize it wasn't you..."

This is the Dan Erin was dating. Sorry for the confusion, and please don't call me an imposters. Dan's are the best kind of people around. We Dan's know how to live, I tells ya!

Skindan,

I meant no harm...

Glad you added the Skinhead moniker tho. I agree with you about Dan's. That is my number 2 sons name and just about my favorite boy's name in the world.

Skindan,

I meant no harm...

Glad you added the Skinhead moniker tho. I agree with you about Dan's. That is my number 2 sons name and just about my favorite boy's name in the world.

Hisman,

You're image doesn't show up...It's saying no such image is found. Heather's show up so I'm pretty sure I'm signed into photobucket!

MK,

It showed up when he posted it. I just checked and it's not showing up for me, either.

Hmmm...

My goodness Heather, you're up early! Or haven't you gone to bed yet?

You're awfully cute too...what's in the college water?

Amanda,

You're beautiful too! I want magicbeautymakingcollegewater...

MK,

Haha, thanks.

I haven't been to bed yet. My job has me working nights to make sure the documents get in on time each day.

So, I'm usually online in the late evening to late morning, and then I sleep the day away.

hehehe. Thank you MK

although my "college water" was a combination of good ol' NYC tap water and WAY too much Dunkin Donuts coffee.

Heres my parents:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/parentals.jpg

and my doggie - who is part of the reason Im so excited to move back to Mass! I miss her!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/mandakate/gus-1.jpg

Amanda,

Your dog is purdy :)

OOOOH!!! Picture time!!!

PS...anyone who posted a photobucket link...I dont think it works. lol.
Dude, I didn't think we had so many good-looking people here. HisMan and MK...your sons are lookers. Hehehehe. But sorry, MK...I can't take the one, as I have a wonderful boyfriend that I plan on getting hitched with. ;)
Here's a few pictures of me:

http://photos-400.ak.facebook.com/ip006/v39/65/85/9384516/n9384516_33058400_8954.jpg

http://photos-397.ak.facebook.com/ip006/v39/65/85/9384516/n9384516_33058397_7619.jpg

http://photos-297.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v80/174/105/35909797/n35909797_31085297_9988.jpg

Figured you needed a funny pic for the last one. :)

Did my comment get approved yet? I am excited. lol

That makes me sad....I'll try again...

http://photos-397.ak.facebook.com/ip006/v39/65/85/9384516/n9384516_33058397_7619.jpg

http://photos-400.ak.facebook.com/ip006/v39/65/85/9384516/n9384516_33058400_8954.jpg

http://photos-297.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v80/174/105/35909797/n35909797_31085297_9988.jpg

Lyssie, I just found them and posted them for you. ;)

Thank you so much, Bethany!!! How are the kids? :)

(You do know that I'm the Alyssa that posted here before, right? I'm on my home computer, where I generally go by "Lyssie". Sorry for the confusion)

Oh yeah I know, no problem! :) Do you prefer to be called Alyssa or Lyssie? You're gorgeous by the way, it seems like all of you are.

The kids are doing great! Thank you for asking. :)

Alyssa,

Love Samoyeds. Love Dunkin' Donuts coffee.

Alyssa,

AHA! A camper...or at least a hiker!

Water, water everywhere and none for me to drink...

MK: Haven't camped in a while, but I love hiking. I was at a place called "ringing rocks"....a geological phenomenon where the boulders actually hum or ring when you hit them with a hammer due to their iron makeup. Plus there are beautiful waterfalls there. Absolutely stunning. I also live at the foot of the Appalachian trail...My boyfriend and I hope to hike it all the way one day.

But rest assured, camping is still fun. The friend of mine who took that pic in the park of me is planning a campout soon. :)

Although I think it's Amanda with the Samoyed...I have a german shepard....I'll get a pic of her up. She's stunningly beautiful. Gorgeous dog.

Egats, Everyone put their pics up cept me. I've got a My Space profile. Can someone help me link it up? His Man, your son is gorgeous! All of the ladies are beautiful!

Heather4Life...
MK's sons are lookers too. I can't imagine why she isn't able to sell the one. But I do agree...HisMan, that son of yours should be wading through pools of lovely young ladies. You might have to beat them off of him with sticks. :)

Oops! Sorry Alyssa...

AMANDA,

Love Samoyeds. Love Dunkin' Donuts coffee!

Don't feel alone Heather, I missed photo sharing time too. But if anyone wants to see a picture, Holla

I found a newer pic....hmmm....

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/MystyPeak06/lysspics056.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/MystyPeak06/lysspics061.jpg

MK...I might have a friend interested in the son. *giggle*

Ok, 1st one is probably the most flattering picture of myself that I have

http://utk.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32712261&id=12927569

2nd one is me playing in photoshop ;-)

http://utk.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=33554559&id=12927569&prev

Let me know if they don't work, I don't know if you have to be a member of facebook or not

Hmmm...why do my comments suddenly need approval?

Bethany: I am called many forms of my name... Friends and boyfriend call me "Lyss", Mom calls me "Lyssa", many others just say the full "Alyssa"...It honestly doesn't matter. I like my name. :)

lyssie, Those are really nice pics. You look like a model.

http://utk.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=32712261&id=12927569

Does this work?

All these good looking people on this site! Are you trying to give a broken down old broad a complex!

I think...it's time to go to bed (finally!).

I'll talk to you all much later :)

Naw, Mary, you should share too

:-)

JK,

You need a password to get into the site.

AAKK, I can't find my password to see you JK. I've got 2 e-mails. That must be why. Gotta fiddle with it a bit more.....after work.

I had considered modeling on the side until I stopped growing (and developed curves!). I just reached 5'7" and stopped...I hear you're 6 feet!! Lucky...although I wouldn't want to be taller than my boyfriend, who's 5'11 and 1/2". He still yells at Mother Nature for the last half inch. haha.

Considering the gene pool I'm working from, I shouldn't be very tall at all. Grammy was barely 5 feet tall (from southern Italy) and looked nothing like me. I'm truly a genetic anomaly. But since my brother looks a lot like me (Hey, single girls, he's 16 and very very handsome), I guess I can't be all out of the ordinary. I could post a pic of him and me together. Cute boy. :)

MK - She is a beautiful Sammy, and she KNOWS it. She walks like a princess... in fact, if you're still needing to auction your son off, you might just have him come by and walk the dog through town. She is a MAJOR chick magnet. I had my boyfriend hold her outside when I went in to get coffee downtown when I was home for Christmas, and 3 different girls stopped and chatted him up thanks to the dog!!

How old are your boys btw?

ooops....

I have to leave in a few minutes, but I'll be back this afternoon and put my pics where everyone can see them.

:-)

Amanda, you are also very beautiful!

Now, Mary...honestly. You were just saying that your son thought you were a looker. Don't start. I will not let a confident "broken down old broad" like you to belittle yourself. :D

Lyssie, yes 6' and going through high school = misery. I grew out of my knobby knees and braces and then people started telling me to try modeling. I only weighed 125 pounds. Too hard to break into the business. I always thought I was geeky looking. I still think I'm a geek. I always winde up with short guys.

Gotta run all. Shower time. Then work.

Can't be that much of a geek, Heather4life...I hear you ride horses. That is very very cool. I had to sell my horsie before I went to college, but I know he's being treated wonderfully and being trained more than I was capable of doing with being in highschool and then going to college full-time. Don't worry about the geeky thing...I was the biggest nerd in my highschool. Those pics of me don't really prove anything... the guys in my highschool steered clear of me because I was too smart for them, I was odd (what with my habit for always reading or doing geeky things), and I wasn't some "easy" piece of tail. I was a nerd through and through. It was really funny though...after graduating top of my class (valedictorian), a few of the "cool" guys in my class admitted that they might have asked me out if I wasn't such an "embarrassment" because I was a nerd. Jerks.

Jk I couldn't see your picture....maybe you could host one on your deviant art page?

Here's one of me from about 2 years ago:
http://www.creativeartworks.cc/img/a/bethanykerr2.jpg

And from just a couple of days ago:
http://app.onlinequickblog.com/images/37967-35154/canoetrip7.jpg

HisMan,

'Cameron, yes you do impose biology as a moral system. Your god, science, tells you that a baby in the womb is a blob of cells no better than the snot out of ones's nose and can therefore be treated as such. Hence, we have legalized abortion."

Are you serious, or just being antagonistic? Perhaps you have alzheimers or something.... maybe too many drugs. I've never called it a blob, and indicated unequivocally otherwise.

If you’re serious, it’s pretty clear you don’t know anything about biology or my moral system, despite my elaborating on it here ad nueseam. It’s like you haven’t heard a single thing I’ve ever said, or anyone for that matter. By saying this biology as morals BS, you’ve pretty clearly demonstrated you’re not debating with anyone here, and you are indeed running on auto-pilot. Someone debating would know and acknowledge the opposing position and frame their argument/counter accordingly. You, on the other hand, don’t seem to know anything, and would sooner pretend you do, so you can witness to the heathens and bring them to jesus, rather than actually find out anything or understand. Is this what you call "examining everything??" In otherwords, your broken record, and it's like talking to a wall. I think you are here to tell us about jesus, like a broken record, so you can feel good about yourself for spreading the word, and saving baby’s isn’t really all that important to you.

I don’t know how you missed my moral system, but I’m going assume that maybe, just maybe, this time it will actually sink in... not expecting you to convert... but it’s pretty hard to take you seriously when you don’t even know what you're arguing about: Abortion is legal because nobody, fetus, person, blob, or otherwise, has a right to someone’s unvolunteered body/organs. Put your f’d up analytical-examining-everything hat on, and let me know, elaborate, what the hell science has to do with this notion.

You’re so annoying, and I think you know why I think that now.

"I take stances where others are afraid to."

Quite the opposite. Absolutely Nothing ballsy about saying "it’s wrong to kill babies." Seriously! Pretty simple minded and safe notion. It takes hell of lot more to advance the reality that a woman has the right to remove it. However, you’re welcome to your delusions of strength and heroism... no matter how non-challenging your position is.

"We did everything. Drugs, sex, rock and roll, high speed chases, gang fights."

That explains a lot about you. Kind of like Paris Hilton finding Jesus in jail.

Lyssie,

You're very kind. My son was talking about a picture of me taken over 30 years ago.
You definitely could have modelled, in fact I'm surprised you didn't. I thought 5'7' was the minimum required height but things could have changed.
I'm enjoying yours and Heather's accounts of high school. They sound a lot like mine only I wasn't as smart as you. "Nerdy" and "geeky" yes.
Incredibly naive, even more so!
Lyssie, speaking of gene pools and how you should be short, I should look like Dolly Parton. The ladies on both sides of my family were, uh, generously endowed on both. Let's just say that somewhere the DNA either got lost or drastically mutated.
About our heights ladies (I'm also 5'7"), they're a blessing. I think tallness is beautiful.

Bethany,

About your picture, like I said before there are very attractive people on this blog. You just helped prove my point.

Mary, you are sweet to say that.

Mary, about the only high-fashion model that's "short" is Kate Moss...she's 5'7". Don't get me wrong, I love being taller than average. Helps in large crowds. :)

About the generous endowments thing...that's another area that you and I share. Both sides of my family contain women with huge....tracts of land...(can anyone name the reference???)... and I am the only one with bosoms smaller than "D". All the women on both sides are basically short and big-chested....I'd say I'm svelte...

Lyssa,

6,17,21,25 and 26. It's the twenty five year old that's being auctioned off.

Mary,
I'd love to see a picture of you...pllleeeeaaaaassse?

I would love to also. I think you are probably much better looking than you give yourself credit for.

MK: I think Amanda also asked the question about your kids' ages...but thanks for the info. LOL. I'm 19 and my brother is 16. My boyfriend is 24. (No sharp intake of breath!! He was in the Marines for 5 years...he's just "behind".)

Hi cam,

'I don’t know how you missed my moral system, but I’m going assume that maybe, just maybe, this time it will actually sink in... not expecting you to convert... but it’s pretty hard to take you seriously when you don’t even know what you're arguing about: Abortion is legal because nobody, fetus, person, blob, or otherwise, has a right to someone’s unvolunteered body/organs. Put your f’d up analytical-examining-everything hat on, and let me know, elaborate, what the hell science has to do with this notion.'

sorry, got your quote from a posting to HisMan. While I may agree with you about this reliance ... can we interpret this quite another way: this forced-dependency is absolutely necessary to the formation of what is later called the maternal bond. If such is interfered with as with a proposed artificial womb, will not the bonding be replaced by indifference?

This is pure conjecture, but I always wonder the 'why' of these bonds. Are there no obligations?

@Lyssie: Hahahah...Monty Python reference! I shall cook you brownies and shove them in my disk drive to email you for being Monty Python-ish.

And for the record large...tracts of land also run in my family (at least on my mom's side...) and unfortunately, mother nature came up trumps on that one...arrrrrrgh.

Some say that abortion is not murder.

If that's the case, then it's manslaughter.

And what can one say about manslaughter committed against a tiny baby?
+++
I can't understand why there is not a difference seen between the important and appropriate rights of a lawfully wedded husband to have a say in the reproductive process with his lawfully wedded wife, as contrasted with the properly non-existent rights of an illegitimate tomcat male running around loose without a legally enforceable commitment?

Does anyone understand me about this? Why are husbands who have stuck their neck out to make their love and commitment legally enforceable treated like dogs sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong?

What's the point for a man to get married if he gains no right to secure his investment in and fruits from the relationship?

Boyfriends should have no rights.

But husbands should have legal rights commensurate with the obligations and duties they have accepted.

For the same reason a man should refrain from marrying a crazy woman, a reasonable man should beware of marrying when the laws of marriage and divorce are crazy, no matter how perfect the woman appears to be.

In The Peeple's Republic of Kalifornia, (PRK), a husband doesn't even have the right to know if his wife is pregnant, much less have any right to say boo about her abortions.

What kind of a stupid man agrees to those terms?

Only a guy who is too stupid to know why he got married in the first place, which is every guy who gets married in the PRK, at least since 1963.

Marriage does not automatically mean that a man has rights over a woman's reproductive organs. He can have an opinion, he can have a discussion with the woman, he can divorce her or break up with her if she has an abortion or gets pregnant. He can not, however, force her to remain pregnant against her will. I cannot think of anything more repugnant than forcing a woman to carry a life that she does not want.

Less,

I can think of something "more repugnant than forcing a woman to carry a life that she does not want", which is, a mother willing to kill her own child.

Cameron,

You get the award for being able to use the most words and not say anything and at the same time get off on it. It's kind of like masturbating with words.

I'll make it simple for you. Abortion is murder. People who support the choice to abort are partners in murder. And males with your attitudes are especially distasteful.

It seems to me very cowardly to insult somone over the internet when you don't have to risk their potetential other-than-verbal response.

I would bet my worldy possessions that you are the type pf person (and I'm being very polite here) who says one thing to people's faces and then turns around and talks about them behind their backs.

Seems to me you would not make a good friend especially to another male. I bet you don't have one close male friend. It's too bad. Maybe too much time on the internet?

What is in your psyche that, as a male, you can talk to other males the way you do on the internet feeling you can get away with it, especailly with all the girls watching and listening in? It's obvious and pathetic. It's some sort of whacked out power trip.

I'll bet you got your ass kicked playing sports or something and this is one way you can feel powerful. I don't expect you to admit that though as any such admission would just blow your cover.

I gotta say one thing Cameron, if I caught one of my son's talking to people like you did, I'd certainly challenge him on it. Seems like your dad didn't take the oppotunity when he had it. Of course, I don't have to worry because all of my sons were brought up to respect people.

Tell me, is that what you want, some fatherly figure to discipline you? I can sense the void. It's the only rason I think of as to why you hate my "magic man" so much. He represents male authority and somewhere in your past, some male really messed with you. I feel sorry for you Cameron.

Skindan,

I meant no harm...

Glad you added the Skinhead moniker tho. I agree with you about Dan's. That is my number 2 sons name and just about my favorite boy's name in the world.

MK, I assure you that I believe you had nothing but the utmost positive intentions in mind. If I'd sensed you being hostile towards me, then I would've reacted in kind.

I'm glad the skinhead moniker doesn't disturb you as it does most people.

PS Mad props for naming your second son Daniel. The Hebrew meaning of God Is My Judge held very true in my life for a long time until I realized that I didn't enjoy organized religions, or the thought of a higher power. Anyways, good on ya for bringing another Dan into the world!

You get the award for being able to use the most words and not say anything and at the same time get off on it. It's kind of like masturbating with words.

Good one!

Skindan,

I'm glad the skinhead moniker doesn't disturb you as it does most people.

Once you explained that they weren't neo-nazis I started thinking of them as hairless, bikeless bikers...

HisMan,

"Tell me, is that what you want."

I want you to stop using Jill's blog for glorified witnessing. I want you to stop being dishonest and thoughtless. And, it might behove you to actually try to ACT like Jesus, if that's so important to you, rather than judging everyone around you in order to facilitate your insecurities about your own belief system.

That's nice, HisMan. I'm not concerned with what you think, to be honest. I've developed a passionate apathy towards you due to your constant evangelizing; nothing you say holds any credence, importance, or usefulness in my life. I do tend to develop that attitude towards people who believe I'm going to hell, but I am afraid you've brought it on yourself. :)

Hisman: "Males who are not responsible enough to take care of the children they father are not worthy to be called men, they are predators, thieves, betrayers of life, the lowest form of human existence.

And men that have encouraged, promoted and not fought against having their children murdered are the worst kind of cowards."

* * *

MK, don't tell me that people on this site don't demonize those they disagree with. It's more than "hate the sin, love the sinner." According to this fine man, I'm "the lowest form of human existence." I'm the "worst kind of coward."

You guys gush over Hisman like he's the Second Coming, but he's a pretentious, self righteous, egomaniac. Probably resents the fact he spent the last 30 years of his life devoted to a fairy tale.

Hi Cameron, Less and gang,

It may help you to understand HisMan's faith IS unusual, is Not like the other religious-faiths, but is absolutely right on. Too many non-Christians (even some self-proclaimed Christians) understand faith somewhat like: 'I believe in ice cream!'

A Christian as HisMan understands lives IN a very active-alive God and like many attributes HisMan's's faith and what Jesus believes are one. HisMan has entered on a journey ... whose final goal is absolute alignment with a living person's faith ... that Person is Jesus Himself. You might think there is more of HisMan than Jesus present ... I'm not at all convinced this is true.

Cameron,

I have no insecurities about my belief system. I live what I beleive. The way I conduct my life and raised my family are evidence of that. Have I been perfect, asbsolutely not. I have been very thoughtful and honest, however, on this blog and consistent. You seem to have trouble with anyone who has a solid belief in Christ because for you it seems that the standard would be perfection. And you mistake judgement for proclaiming the Word. I have admitted errors in my past which you then use to trash me. I can handle it though.

Whether you know it or not Brendon, the key to changing your views on abortion is an encounter with the living God.

And I am not sure how acting like Jesus would make any difference to you since you seem bent on insulting Him (magic man) every time I mention His name. He's got big sholders too and is not surprised by any insults you launch at Him. No matter what you do or say He will always forgive as long as you want to be forgiven.

For your sake though, I will make sure, to a fault, that everything I say is run through the filter of acting like Jesus.

Here's my first crack at it.

"Jesus loves YOU this I know for the Bible tells me so". Can you handle the fact that the Creator of the Universe loves Cameron more than Cameron loves Cameron? It's that simple.

I don't feel that we "gush" over His Man at all. I enjoy his posts because they are true and honest. They cause me to rethink MY OWN life sometimes. I will admit that I do read the bible, but at times I have trouble understanding it. The posts help me out. I don't think any of us here have ever claimed perfection. Far from it for me. I just want to continue to try to live right. I want to continue to reject what is wrong. Abortion is wrong. It was wrong 50 years ago. It is wrong today, and it will be wrong 50 years from now.

"Once you explained that they weren't neo-nazis I started thinking of them as hairless, bikeless bikers..."

Haha! That's basically what we are. Besides, you can rest assured knowing that this skinhead is fighting the good fight. Besides, if I can educate one person on what we truly stand for, then that's one more person who won't try to run me down with a car, or stab me, or shoot me, like some of the others have.

"A lot of good it did me...no one will take him off my hands...(all of these are jokes...I love that kid. When he was little he used to "garbage pick" roses for me from the back of the florist shop and bring them to me after school.)"

Sounds like what I used to do for my mom. We Dans are such mama's boys! If you're looking for him to find work, send'em my way. I'll put him to work in the cornfields with me.

John,

For me it's simple.

I love Jesus Christ and as a result, because I am a people pleaser (you kow the birth order thing), I want to impress Him, make Him happy, etc., etc. This goal of course is delusional since I can't make Him love me any more than He already does. I really have nothing to offer Him other than my heart. It's a life long journey to reprogram one's thinking to that, however.

I get down on myself soemtimes when I fail, which is often, especially in areas of my marriage, patience with my kids and others, etc. Perhaps that's where Cameron senses an insecurity in my faith. Of course, it's wrong assessment because the prejudice is that all true Christians are perfect. Doesn't exist.

Like Paul, I deal with the sin that I know that lives inside of me and all of us and wages war. Like Paul, I must learn to realize that Jesus loves me apart from my sin and apply it to how I deal with myslef and others. That's why He died for me and all of us, to free us from our desire to control everything.

However, I am committed to running the race and recieving the prize. Nothing else makes any sense to me now and I would be a fool to abandon that goal no matter what befalls me. The die is cast, there is no turning back.

I like Cameron a lot because he's not afraid to say what's on his mind. If he could surrender to the mind of Christ I believe he would be a very, very powerful Christian, you know an Aquinas, Paul type. This is my hope for him and I believe he's going to have a Damascus Road experience soon.

Hal, on th eohter hand is a man who doesn't even know himself. He's like a lost littel boy. I must continue to be firm with him becaseu that's what he needs.

You see John, my gift is turning boys into champions. I've done it with four sons and numerous others and I believe God has led me to this site to help boys become men.

He is truly an amazing God.

"Hal, on th eohter hand is a man who doesn't even know himself. He's like a lost littel boy. I must continue to be firm with him becaseu that's what he needs."

what is it you think I don't know about myself?

hal, Yesterday you hinted around that you were leaving after I asked you why you blogged here. I'm GLAD you didn't! Please stay. I get the feeling that you are searching for something. Hal, all that mumbo jumbo about being okay with abortion is eating at your soul like a cancer. If you really meant what you said, you wouldn't have returned. You can lie to us all you want to hal. You can't lie to yourself.

Cameron, You don't bother me anymore. Maybe it's because I prayed for you. Perhaps God granted me the solace. Whatever the case may be, I have seen a change in you as well. You still push buttons from time to time. Nowhere near how it used to be.

my soul is at peace.

Hal,

You need to become a man.