Hardly "major" wins. Peripheral at best.

You know what really really annoys me? When people who are pro-life, people like Jill, think that just because I am pro-choice, I want to "get rid of" EVERY SINGLE unborn fetus. I support the womens right to choose. So if she chooses that she wants to keep the child I support it. If she chooses that she wants to abort the fetus, I support it. If she chooses that she wants to give the child up for adoption. Then I support it. I have been reading your website Jill for months now and I have always felt this way.

Like SoMG, I wouldn't think there's much cause for jubilation... but hey, hyperbole is your forte, and you do it so well... I mean who'd of thunk the the NEA is all about killing pre-babies till they read this.

I've been watching the supreme court decisions with more dismay than I'd anticipated. It's interesting that every decision by this supreme court not only overturns numerous forehead slappingly obvous previous rulings they've made, but are somehow always party line splits. Judicial activism much?

You know what really really annoys me? When people who are pro-life, people like Jill, think that just because I am pro-choice, I want to "get rid of" EVERY SINGLE unborn fetus. I support the womens right to choose. So if she chooses that she wants to keep the child I support it. If she chooses that she wants to abort the fetus, I support it. If she chooses that she wants to give the child up for adoption. Then I support it. I have been reading your website Jill for months now and I have always felt this way.

Posted by: JM at June 27, 2007 08:25 AM

You know what really really annoys me?
People who are pro-choice, but don't stand up for the women who want to keep their babies but are forced to abort because their parents, boyfriends, or husbands force them to, or for women who change their minds but are coerced by clinic staff to continue with the procedure.

You know what really realy annoys me?
People who are pro-choice that don't stand up for women who have been hurt by abortion through infertility, depression, and death.

You know what really really annoys me?
People who are pro-choice but don't take action against the clinics who operate with unsterile conditions, rusted bloody instruments, employ quacks for abortionists, falsify records, and coverup statutory rapes.

You know what really really annoys me?
People who are pro-choice and have bought into this whole ridiculous argument that a fetus is nothing more than an univited parasite in a women's body.

You know what really really annoys me?
People who are pro-choice who have no emtional feelings towards these defenseless little lives and support the grusome act of tearing an innocent baby limb from limb and disposing it like it was yesterday's garbage just for the sake of convenience.

You know what really really annoys me?
People who are pro-choice and say they support a woman's right to choose, but stand by and keep their head in the sand and play deaf, dumb and stupid on how this act of violence devalues human life.

You know what really annoys me?

Sandy!

*who, not what.

Gee,
Another childish attack from the pro-choice camp.
No surpise.
LMAO

Stephanie: vacuous posts. Best you got?

Sandy-
Don't forget about those that are forced to carry to term when they don't want to. They're boyfriends, husband and parents forcing them. I bet you don't feel sorry for them.

And as far as the unsterilized and poor conditions abortions are sometimes done in... expect that to get worse and worse if Roe Vs Wade is overturned.

And sandy, what about the emotional well being of the person carrying the fetus/baby? What if they are not ready for it emotionally or physically?

Smoggy, Cameroni: You're right. Busting up union dictatorships and putting a major chink in McCain-Feingold are yawners.

You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who believe that so many women are coerced into abortion …then never show unbiased statistics to back it up. Or any statistics at all, for that matter.

You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who don’t realize that not every single woman who chooses an abortion is hurt through infertility or depression. Also, in annoys me when people don’t understand the concepts of basic grammar: generally people aren’t hurt by death. They can be killed by death, but as death generally implies a lack of recovery, unlike the word hurt, they cannot be hurt by death. Learn to speak, please.

You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who raise a squawk about unsanitary conditions within abortion clinics, but not about Crisis Pregnancy Centers who lie, who don’t actually have doctors on call, and who blatantly attempt to guilt women out of abortion. There are bad guys on both sides of the divide, people: bad abortion clinics and bad CPCs. Mention one, be prepared to deal with the other.

You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who get pissy about the parasite analogy and then call it a baby. Baby’s not a medical term, parasite doesn’t completely define a fetus. If you’re going to criticize our terms, than you’d best be speaking perfectly yourselves.

You know what really annoys me?
Emotional appeals. Innocence of the fetus isn’t established, particularly if you believe in original sin. Not all women abort for convenience sake: pregnancy isn’t an “inconvenience” anyway. It can be nine months of hell if it’s something that was forced upon you.

Also, pro-lifers who support the idea of forcing a fetus upon an unwilling mother, making her go through nine months of vomiting and inability to work, finally culminating in her be fired, her scholarship revoked because of poor grades, and the breakdown of her support network. She’s left without a job and with a pregnancy that she didn’t want, she can’t get medical care because she can’t afford it: soon she ends up without a job and with a kid she didn’t want, and she still can’t get medical care. She’s now depressed, but no one is really concerned with that because she participated in the greatest honor there is: the spawn! The crises pregnancy centers she finally visits tell her to be happy, that she’s got a child and made the right choice, but all she is is depressed. She’s finally got food, a mediocre job, and a little bit of health care…but what about her education? Gone, she can’t go to college with a newborn. In a fit of resentment towards this life she didn’t want in the first place, she abandons it. Because she no longer has the child, she no longer has support from the CPCs: no heath care and no more free handouts. She’s on her own once again.

You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who pretend that every woman secretly will value a child: apparently, they miraculously know every woman. Some women don’t want kids because they know they won’t care about said kids, guys, wise up.

Per Less:
"Pro-lifers who believe that so many women are coerced into abortion …then never show unbiased statistics to back it up. Or any statistics at all, for that matter."

Just a few stories to ger you warmed up. Do you ever educate yourself beyond this site on the abortion issue???
Amanda Kellaway (Australia) #066
“I was forced to have an abortion by my parents. Even on the operating table, I sat up and said, ‘No, I don't want this.’ The doctor used force to jab the needle in.”

Jeannie (Canada) #062
“[My mother said]… Dr. C. came out of the operating room and told me that the baby wasn't really dead and asked Dad and I what we wanted him to do. We told him to abort it.”

Rebecca (USA) #058
“I locked myself in the bathroom… [he] took the door down, from the outside, unscrewing it bit by bit, until he took it off the hinges. He was taking me to the abortion clinic whether I wanted to go, or not.”
**************
Per Less:

Pro-lifers who don’t realize that not every single woman who chooses an abortion is hurt through infertility or depression.

We recognize that not all women suffer through depression or ingertility. The crime is that you want to ignore the fact that many do.
***************************
Per Less:
"Pro-lifers who raise a squawk about unsanitary conditions within abortion clinics, but not about Crisis Pregnancy Centers who lie, who don’t actually have doctors on call, and who blatantly attempt to guilt women out of abortion. There are bad guys on both sides of the divide, people: bad abortion clinics and bad CPCs. Mention one, be prepared to deal with the other."

Gee, hadn't heard of any woman being maimed rendered infertile or died by visiting a crisis pregnancy center.
**************************************
Per Less:
"You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who get pissy about the parasite analogy and then call it a baby. Baby’s not a medical term, parasite doesn’t completely define a fetus. If you’re going to criticize our terms, than you’d best be speaking perfectly yourselves."

The next time a friend gets pregnant I will throw her a fetus shower. The next time I talk to a friend who is pregnant I will ask them if their fetus is a boy or a girl.

Per Less:
"Emotional appeals. Innocence of the fetus isn’t established, particularly if you believe in original sin."

I am not even going to get into this with you. Lost cause.

Per Less:
"Not all women abort for convenience sake: pregnancy isn’t an “inconvenience” anyway."

No it is not an inconvenience. It is a gift.

********************************
Per Less:
"It can be nine months of hell if it’s something that was forced upon you."

How would you know?

********************************
Per Less:
"Also, pro-lifers who support the idea of forcing a fetus upon an unwilling mother, making her go through nine months of vomiting and inability to work, finally culminating in her be fired, her scholarship revoked because of poor grades, and the breakdown of her support network. She’s left without a job and with a pregnancy that she didn’t want, she can’t get medical care because she can’t afford it: soon she ends up without a job and with a kid she didn’t want, and she still can’t get medical care. She’s now depressed, but no one is really concerned with that because she participated in the greatest honor there is: the spawn! The crises pregnancy centers she finally visits tell her to be happy, that she’s got a child and made the right choice, but all she is is depressed. She’s finally got food, a mediocre job, and a little bit of health care…but what about her education? Gone, she can’t go to college with a newborn. In a fit of resentment towards this life she didn’t want in the first place, she abandons it. Because she no longer has the child, she no longer has support from the CPCs: no heath care and no more free handouts. She’s on her own once again."

Wow Less, sounds like an episode to submit into one of the daytime soaps. Why don't you also include some of the stories I included above just to make it fair and balanced.
********************************

Per Less:
"You know what really annoys me?
Pro-lifers who pretend that every woman secretly will value a child: apparently, they miraculously know every woman. Some women don’t want kids because they know they won’t care about said kids, guys, wise up."

Simple. These women shouldn't get pregnant in the first place.

Sandy, are those statistics? I requested statistics, not personal stories. Understand the difference, please.

Show me unbiased statistics that “many” suffer from negative after affects.

Ever considered asking your friends what they’d prefer?

Read the last part of my post, please. It’s not a gift for everyone, and if you would look beyond your own little bubble, perhaps you would understand that. I would honestly rather die than be forced into a pregnancy.

I would know because I’ve talked to women whose parents have forced them to have a baby.

Hm, maybe you should consider than when you post paragraphs with babies being torn limb from limb? That sounds to me like an episode of shark week on the discovery channel.

Sure, I’d agree these women shouldn’t get pregnant. And I’d imagine that they’d use contraception religiously, particularly as over 98% of women use some sort of contraception: even if it is just the pull and pray method.

But, should their contraception fail, should they be forced to remain pregnant? I’d consider it barbaric to force a woman to bear children: rather like slavery, wouldn’t you think? Why should they be slaves to their wombs, hm?

Less:
Why are there so many support groups for women who regret abortion???? Are they all a fallacy to you?
Here is a link for you to check out. You can read for yourself about the negative impact abortion has on women.
http://www.afterabortion.org/

Per Less:
"Sure, I’d agree these women shouldn’t get pregnant. And I’d imagine that they’d use contraception religiously, particularly as over 98% of women use some sort of contraception: even if it is just the pull and pray method."

Less, we have been over this before. Look at the statistics from the research institute for PP, very very few women who say they use birth control use it effectively. If you don't use a condom each time or are irresponsible in taking your birth control you are knowingly engaging in sex that can end in pregnancy.

I hardly think the pray and pull method qualifies for birth control. Please.

PEr Less:
"But, should their contraception fail, should they be forced to remain pregnant? I’d consider it barbaric to force a woman to bear children: rather like slavery, wouldn’t you think? Why should they be slaves to their wombs, hm?"

It is not barbaric to "force" a woman to carrying a child she received.

How many women after choosing life over abortion have regrets for bringing a child into the world, whether they kept it or gave it up for adoption?
Any stats on that Less????

Nine months to carry a pregnancy to term is a blip in time.

Per Less:
Hm, maybe you should consider than when you post paragraphs with babies being torn limb from limb? That sounds to me like an episode of shark week on the discovery channel.

Less,
Honestly, what do you think happens during an abortion?? Look up the procedures if your stomach can handle it.

Also, it really really annoys me when people don't understand the basic concepts of grammar as exampled in the first sentence of your above post. It makes no sense.

Typo?? Maybe. I thinks not. Ooops another grammar errror on my part. Sorry Ms. Less.

"Pro-lifers who believe that so many women are coerced into abortion …then never show unbiased statistics to back it up. Or any statistics at all, for that matter"

Lemme help ya. Out Less. That just ain't good grammar?

"Pro-lifers who believe that so many women are coerced into abortion …then never show unbiased statistics to back it up. Or any statistics at all, for that matter"

Lemme help ya. Out Less. That just ain't good grammar? Not cause I expect you to have perfect grammar but because you felt the need to pick apart Sandy's post.

Sandy-
Don't forget about those that are forced to carry to term when they don't want to. They're boyfriends, husband and parents forcing them. I bet you don't feel sorry for them.

And as far as the unsterilized and poor conditions abortions are sometimes done in... expect that to get worse and worse if Roe Vs Wade is overturned.

And sandy, what about the emotional well being of the person carrying the fetus/baby? What if they are not ready for it emotionally or physically?

Jill...I wasn't trying to be serious at all. Sandy was just really annoying me. That's all I had time to say this morning before I ran off to work in the lab. *shrug*

And now that I'm back and wanting to add more to this, I find that JM and Less has already said everything that needs to be said.

Oh, one last thing.

Sandy, that wasn't an attack. If I were attacking you, I would have addressed you directly. I was being facetious.

Oh, one last thing.

Sandy, that wasn't an attack. If I were attacking you, I would have addressed you directly. I was being facetious. It's hard to convey emotion over internet text.

Per Stephanie:
"Jill...I wasn't trying to be serious at all. Sandy was just really annoying me.

Sandy, that wasn't an attack. If I were attacking you, I would have addressed you directly. I was being facetious."

OK?????

Luv,
Thanks for the back up!

I just find it really really annoying when people call out mistakes of others when they make the same mistakes themselves.

Per JM:
"Don't forget about those that are forced to carry to term when they don't want to. They're boyfriends, husband and parents forcing them. I bet you don't feel sorry for them."

No, I don't feel sorry for them. They were engaging in a sexual relationship and along with that come the reality that they may become pregnant. I don't know of anyone who brought a baby into the world and regretted it. I do know many women who had abortions and regrettted it and are suffering the negative effects for the rest of their lives.

"And as far as the unsterilized and poor conditions abortions are sometimes done in... expect that to get worse and worse if Roe Vs Wade is overturned."

You have bought into the rhetoric of the pro-choice movement. So you think it's ok now that women are being treated in substandard conditions?

"And sandy, what about the emotional well being of the person carrying the fetus/baby? What if they are not ready for it emotionally or physically?"

Again, refer to my first comment. If they are not emotionally ready to be pregnant, then they are not emotionally ready to be having sexual relations.

Women who say they are pro-choice because they think they are being so noble and supportive of women. By being a pro-choice you need to understand you support all of what I stated above. Why do you support the items I addressed?
I really want to know!!!

Lemme help ya. Out Less. That just ain't good grammar? Not cause I expect you to have perfect grammar but because you felt the need to pick apart Sandy's post.

LOL

Sandy, are you confused or something?

Stephanie, maybe you could address the points she raised?

Sandy, do I have to repeat myself? I asked for statistics. You know, numbers? Personal stories aren’t of any use to me, or else I’d be posting I’m Not Sorry, a site for women who feel nothing but relief after abortions. So, either provide me with statistics on how many women are forced into abortions, or stop typing about it. Proof or it didn’t happen, sweetheart.

Also, per a site that Jill herself cited:

Globally, 58% of married women are practicing contraception. About 65-80% use a method in developed regions, Latin America and the Caribbean, and East Asia; 42% in the rest of Asia; and only 20% in Africa.

Provide statistics that say that only a few of these women use it correctly.

Nine months to carry a child to term certainly isn’t a “blip in time,” particularly when those nine months can force you out of school, out of a job, out of a relationship. I’ve seen abortion procedures: I’m still pro-choice. Frankly, they don’t particularly bother me to see: what usually bothers me is the occasional blatant lies they post, particularly regarding the fetal age.

Also? Point out where I screwed up on grammar. I’m an English major: I do what I do for a living. You bet if I screwed up, I did it on purpose to prove a point, or was rushing the post because I have, you know, a life. As I was with my boy yesterday, doing what we do, it was likely the latter. Life generally does interfere with arguing with batty old shrews who believe sex automatically equals pregnancy and that every child is a blessing. And guess what? I never want to be pregnant. If you expect me to stay celibate forever, someone seriously needs to pop that bubble you apparently live in and expose you to the real world, as that’s just not how it works, hun.

Luv, read what I wrote to Sandy.

Per Less:
"I asked for statistics. You know, numbers?"
Globally, 58% of married women are practicing contraception. About 65-80% use a method in developed regions, Latin America and the Caribbean, and East Asia; 42% in the rest of Asia; and only 20% in Africa."

I've given you these statistics before Less. Take a look at you know...the numbers???

These statistics below (you know the numbrs) are right from the Guttmacher website.

Fifty-four percent of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.[13]

The statistics (you know the nummbers)obviously show that a very small percentage of women use birth control effectively.

But since you're an English major I guess you don't understand you know....numbers.

Per Less:
"You bet if I screwed up, I did it on purpose to prove a point, or was rushing the post because I have, you know, a life."

Less,
I could point out gramatical mistakes everyone's posts here. We are ALL busy multitasking and do the best we can to get our points out there. I don't edit my posts as I am toooooo busy with my life. Yes, and I am sure if you screwed up it was on purpose. Give me a break. LMAO

Per Less:
"Life generally does interfere with arguing with batty old shrews who believe sex automatically equals pregnancy and that every child is a blessing."

Less,
Yes, my life also interferes with agruing with flipant, condescending know it all type pubecents. But I try.

PS
I hardly think the twenty-something year olds on the hockey team I play with would consider me a "batty old shrew"

Sandy. The numbers you gave me are taken from women who have abortions. Women who have abortions are not all women. They're taken from the segment of the population who have abortions. I'll say again, women who have abortions aren't all women. That's from a completely different sample, and you can't put that to the general population.

Take general statistics, it might improve your ability to debate.

Sweety, I'm far past puberty. Flippant (notice the two 'p's) and condescending depends on who I'm talking to, and women who honestly believe that forcing their own gender to carry unwanted children is perfectly okay, well, they deserve ever bit of my condescension.

Less hun,
I don't care about the women who don't abort.
The debate here is the women that do.

Try to stay focused.

Per Less:
"Sweety, I'm far past puberty. Flippant (notice the two 'p's) and condescending depends on who I'm talking to, and women who honestly believe that forcing their own gender to carry unwanted children is perfectly okay, well, they deserve ever bit of my condescension."

Less,
English major really? Those on-line degree schools need to up their standards.

You go back and correct all of the gramatic errors and spelling mistakes in the above statment and maybe I will raise your grade from an "F" to a "D-" Sorry that's the best I can do.

You may want to think about a tutor. They can be very helpful and if your lucky you just might pass remedial english 101.

Good luck with all that.

See, this would be one of those posts that contains no substance whatsoever. Just ad-hom attacks. Honestly, Sandy, not got anything better to say? As you, you know, didn't point out any specific errors...I'm going to consider that, perhaps, you didn't get time to finish your post.

And I don't know what college you went to, but when you reach junior level, most of the 101 classes are taken care off, sweetheart.

Your statistics reflect women who abort. They do not reflect women who do not. Thus, using your statistics when referring to all women would be a fallacy. My statistics reflect all women. Thus, they are more appropriate. Do you understand the difference now?

"Stephanie, maybe you could address the points she raised?"

Nah. There are people who will address them more eloquently than I ever could. I'll just kick back and enjoy the ride.