It doesn't surprise me that Jeff Fecke wouldn't let the facts get in the way of his column.

This guy does postings for the vile anti-Catholic blogger Melissa McEwan from Shakesville.com. She had
resigned from the Edwards campaign when Bill Oreilly exposed her bigotry.

What the heck is the "very cool undercover jewelery designed with inactive birth control pills"?

Valerie,

Or how about Of the Goddess Bath and Spa products...isn't that mixing religion with politics? If the government is funding PP, shouldn't they NOT be affiliated with any particular religion?

How about John the Baptist Birth Control Pills? Or St Paul's Prophylactics?

And who in the heck is Mrs. Kelly?

Actually Val,

If you take the inactive birth control pills, they will be more likely to see you in a few months at their abortion clinic. Sounds like an "emotional tactic" to me...

They certainly seem to be a little more casual and comfortable than a crisis pregnancy center.

Well,

Until you use their amazing products you won't need a crisis pregnancy center...after that it's good-bye flavored oil, hello reality center.

MK- I think you're over reacting just a bit there, dear. 'Of the Goddess' doesn't have a religious connotation, really. I don't go around yelling that every product that is 'all natural' or that comes from 'nature' is paganistic. Several lines of body treatments make references to women treating themselves with their products as though they were goddesses. It's a marketing strategy- most women like the connotation of being treated like a goddess.

Just sayin'...not meanin'...just sayin'...

And technically it doesn't imply you'll feel like a goddess...it claims to come from the Goddess...

So they're implying that you should be able to use the same kind of care product that a divinity uses. Still marketing. And NOW who's being difficult for the sake of being difficult? ;-)

Caught! Dang!

I have driven by one of their "express" stores. They plunked it right smack in the middle of an upscale type outdoor shopping mall. It has a huge neon sign you can see from the freeway so you can't miss it.

You can now buy a new blouse, a new pair of jeans, shoes to match and stop by your friendly PP on your way to find a matching purse.

I'm sure the marketing guru who came up with this sham just got a huge promotion.

So much for their tired sad montra that they are there to promote birth control to decrease the number of abortions.

You know what they say makes a successful business: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

"When will pro-aborts admit PP is all about titilating kids to have sex?"

From their website that Jill posted above:

PLAN - Planned Parenthood Express Care

What a great feeling when you�re in control. Take charge with caring, confidential no-exam services for you and your partner: brand name birth control pills, the patch, the shot, the ring, condoms, emergency contraception, pregnancy testing, STI screening and HIV testing. We�re open seven days a week. Stop in and check out our funky jewelry, Mrs. Kelly�s teas and cool spa products. Doesn�t it feel good to be in control?

No exams? Where is the catch on that one? Most prescription meds you cannot get without a physical - how are they handing out prescription BC without a physical? I must be missing something here.

Let's continue:

No-Exam Health Services

Birth Control � the pill, the patch, the shot, the ring, condoms
Emergency Contraception � also called Plan B or the morning-after pill
Pregnancy Testing � test results in 30 minutes or less
STI screening and HIV testing
HPV Vaccine
No appointment necessary
Confidential, personalized care
Most health insurance plans accepted

Even Vets can't give a vaccine to a dog or cat without a physical? How are they giving the HPV vaccine?

they also have a "pills now, pay later program". They will give you a year's worth of BC pills, and charge it to your credit card on a monthly basis.

Now that's advertisment!

Sandy and Valerie, you 2 crack me up!

"When will pro-aborts admit PP is all about titilating kids to have sex?"

Not just any kids, Christian kids.

Hi Rosie!

Just an fyi for anyone interested in their marketing campaign. I hope this link works.
If not, just google woodbury planned parenthood.
You will see their crafty little scheme.

http://www.ppmnsaction.org/learn/news/join_the_shop_in_and_support_planned_parenthood_20060623

I guess I know where I won't be buying my bread,
wine and cookies.

Hi Heather!

Hi Sandy!

Hi Heather!

Mmmm I would like to make a comment. I am from Minnesota and have been going to Planned Parenthood for 2.5 years. Originally it was to have my annual exam. With my lack of good insurance and low income I was able to have the whole exam for FREE.

When my boyfriend and I became serious we discussed what we wanted to do. We decided that I would go on birth control and he use condoms to prevent pregnancy. After awhile we decided to quick using condoms and just stick to my birth control. I have been on some type of birth control for over two years. And guess what I'VE NEVER GOTTEN PREGNANT! Looks like Planned Parenthood made a mistake and given me effective birth control... huh.. that doesn't make sense does it? Oh and my birth control has been either been free or really cheap for 2.5 years. Another note... PP would never just let me keep refilling my birth control. A year after my previous exam, I would have to have another before they would issue me a prescription.

Now I will start a big kid job and be able to afford to go to a clinic instead of Planned Parenthood, but I am happy that Planned Parenthood was available to me.

I realize that not all PP are honest, (just like most hospitals or clinics... you always find dishonest ones). But some are.... like the one I went too.

I currently live in a bigger city... about 50,000 people or so. I have never seen these things mentioned above for sale. So they aren't sold all over the Planned Parenthood of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota area. I imagine that they are sold in the bigger cities though.

"Just an fyi for anyone interested in their marketing campaign. I hope this link works.
If not, just google woodbury planned parenthood.
You will see their crafty little scheme."

I went to that website.. I am a little confused.. whats the problem with it? what is the "crafy little scheme"

Isn't it true though that they give out the cheapest condoms?

Now we get a taste of what Hitler's Germany would have looked liked had he not been crushed.

It's all the same old satanic lies.

JM:

How can any one characterize any entity that kills innocent children honest?

Do you realize how revealing that is of the state of your heart?

"With my lack of good insurance and low income I was able to have the whole exam for FREE."

JM, that was not free for me? I paid for your exam at PP. why should my taxes go to PP? I rather have my taxes go to a hospital that doesn't do abortions.

*sigh*

I knew it would only be a matter of time before this stuff would appear on here. I remember reading the paper last week and seeing this article and I immediately thought, "Gee willakers, I'm curious as to how long this will take to show up on Jill's page?"

Meh. I swear, sometimes I think PP has their collective head up their collective arse on things. It's really annoying...especially as I'm not thrilled with PP in the first place.

::headdesk::

JM:

"PP would never just let me keep refilling my birth control. A year after my previous exam, I would have to have another before they would issue me a prescription. "

That's my point with the advertisment that they do 'no-exams health services'. That isn't possible. It is very misleading. In order to get hormonal BC you have to have a prescription which means an exam has to be done every year. To do otherwise is definatly not in the woman's best interest.

Hi Jasper, there are a lot of things I'd rather have my taxes go to then where some of the money goes, but that's our system. Some goes to Planned Parenthood, some goes to General Electric or Haliburton.

I'm very happy that PP lets young women like JM have free exams and good birth control info and supplies. That's money well spent. I always send them a little more to help out.

Hal,

well, you have a point. I really don't mind taxes that go to Hospitals that provide services for low-income women, I just rather it not go to place that is killing innocent unborn children.

@Jasper: If you really don't want your money to go to Planned Parenthood, you could just *not* pay your taxes. Of course then the IRS would come after you and you'd probably go to jail, but at least your money wouldn't be going to PP.

It's funny you bring that Rae, there is a New Hampshire couple ( not that far from me) that has refused to pay taxes for while and are hunkered down in their home and are vowing to fight to their deaths before paying taxes.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3290003

I'll pass on that

That's kind of awesome in a way, it reminds me of that couple from the movie "Tremors" that were all hunkered down in their house with all that armor and guns to kill the sandworms.

whaddya say Rae, you ready to give that 12 weeker the same rights as a 13 weeker?

Hey guys,

For reasons that are my own, I'm no longer going to be posting here. For those of you who I got along with, and the ones that I can call friends, it was a pleasure to have had these discussions with you. You're all great people, and I wish you all the best of luck in life.

If you ever want to get ahold of me, my email address is d-postlewaite@cornellcollege.edu. Thanks again for the great chats and debates.

To Jasper, HisMan, et al: Sorry for getting carried away in some of our more heated discussions. Jasper, I'll hopefully see you in Boston in August!

To MK: Hit me up anytime, you know where I am.

Later guys!

Skinhead Dan

@Jasper: *sigh* Nope, sorry.

Goodbye, SH Dan.

@Jasper: If you really don't want your money to go to Planned Parenthood, you could just *not* pay your taxes. Of course then the IRS would come after you and you'd probably go to jail, but at least your money wouldn't be going to PP.

However this is where the pro-choice argument, "Don't like abortion, don't have one" and "don't force your moral beliefs on me" falls apart, pro-choicers are essntially forcing their moral beliefs and political views on others when they expect for all taypayers (even those who are personally opposed to abortion) to pay for abortions, want to force Catholic hospitals to provide abortions, and expect the tax payers to support laws which support abortion access. I believe that when it comes to special interests or special causes, tax payers should have the right to opt out of supporting a specific cause if they personally disagree with it.

Rachael, this is where I agree with you. I don't believe that people should be paying taxes to certain things that they don't believe in. There should be a box on the tax form where you can check what you think acceptable uses for your taxes are for social programs. Personally, I would check the Planned Parenthood box...and would make sure to stay away from abstinence-only sex education box, which I believe to be a waste of good taxpayer money. That way, the programs everyone wants will still get money, just from the people that support them the most.

"How can any one characterize any entity that kills innocent children honest?"

I have been curious for some time. I just called the PP I go to and asked them if they perform abortions. They said no, which is what I thought they'd say. Perhaps they are just trying to "mislead" me?

"JM, that was not free for me? I paid for your exam at PP. why should my taxes go to PP? I rather have my taxes go to a hospital that doesn't do abortions."

And I don't want my tax money going to Abstinence only education. Why should I have to pay for that when I don't agree?

"There should be a box on the tax form where you can check what you think acceptable uses for your taxes are for social programs."

I don't necessary agree with this statement because to avoid paying more taxes some people would check NO boxes. I also agree that people shouldn't have to pay taxes on things they don't support. But I just don't see anyway around it, except to not pay your taxes.

JM, that's not what I mean. People wouldn't pay any LESS taxes, the money they pay in its entirety would just be applied to social programs they designate as acceptable. They'd still pay all the taxes they owe, they just wouldn't go to certain organizations, while others get all of their contributions. The government has many other programs that most people agree on, and if someone chose none of the boxes (or conversely, if you had to pick organizations that you DIDN'T want your money to go to and they checked them all), it would go toward other social goods that aren't topics of controversy.

Lyssie,
Ah, I apologize that I misunderstood. That does sound like a good idea!

RE: paying taxes.

We have to pay for PP in our taxes and are told to keep our mouths shut, that we have no choice, blaa,blaa...

But when tax money goes to a CPC all the pro-choicers scream that taxes shouldn't go there and set up legislation (check out texas) to try to stop it. We think PP lies, they think CPC's lie what's the difference?

Rae -

TREMORS! One of the top ten worse movies of all time and I never miss it when it is on! I wonder if Kevin Bacon wishes he didn't do that movie? Right along with Friday the 13th....

SH Dan -

You will be missed. I hope you change your mind and come back some day.

SH Dan,

I'm sorry to see you go, but I know why you're leaving. I called you out on so quickly moving on post-Erin's abortion, as I predicted a month ago. Truth hurts.

Coming here is a reminder of all that unpleasantness. I understand. But fyi, leaving here won't stop those thoughts, Dan.

There's only one way out of the haunting you're going to endure your entire life otherwise, Dan: Jesus, who forgives sins and makes us white as snow. I know.

I'm cross-posting my response to your latest comment from the (Long) Weekend Question post, which is relevant:

Dan, I've told you before I think a lot about you and Erin. My heart breaks for you both while at the same time you anger me. I consider you both, particularly you, utterly selfish.

You said, on May 23, "Personally, I believe that the experience we had with her being pregnant and the following abortion made us stronger and closer as a couple, and has renewed my faith in love."

I knew then this was nonsense. So quickly you've moved on. Young ladies, this is SH Dan. Beware. He'll do the same to you.

And Erin? Why in the world would she stick with a guy who couldn't handle reality, who buckled under pressure and didn't do the right thing by her, who okayed her killing their baby?

This is the "right" abortion in all its glory, everyone. Here it is. This is what Dan's admitted animal instinct to have ejaculations under illicit circumstances results in.

Wonderful, celebratory things, aren't they?

Jill- you know what? You're right in a certain aspect of that. The thing is, it has nothing to do with the abortion. Certain aspects of our relationship had been disintegrating before that. At this point, we feel like we have more to gain by not being in contact for a while. Heartbreak is going to be a part of someone's life whether they have sex with their significant other or not- being pro-life and anti-sex before marriage doesn't take all the pain out of a relationship. It's just stupid to think otherwise.

Thanks Jill for reminding me what angered me enough to start posting at your site.

Dan and Erin seemed to handle their relationship issues pretty well for young people, and made some mature and rational decisions.

There is nothing wrong with "quickly" moving on. whatever "moving on" is. I see no reason for an artificial timetable before someone can date after a breakup. They knew it was coming, they talked about it and planned for it. They care about each other and wish each other well. They are living their lives. I wish *any* of my past break-ups would have been so honest.

I see no evidence that Dan "couldn't handle reality," "bucked under pressure," or "didn't do the right thing by her." It's all your biases that lead you to these false and judgmental conclusions. You're welcome to your views, but I'm struck by the attitude that you're right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. You "know" why he's leaving, you know that his unpleasant thoughts won't stop, but you know all will be okay if he accepts Jesus. You sound very silly to me. I guess I sound goofy to you too.

Erin, Hi. Did you and Dan break up? Was it a mutual decision? Just askin cuz I missed it.

Heather- I got accepted into a college in Georgia which will strongly ease my parent's financial burden, allow me access to medical care I need for my eyes, and better suit my field of study. Dan is continuing to study in Iowa. Neither of us believed that a long-distance relationship would be beneficial for us at this stage of our youth, and so after trying to stay in touch for a while, we decided to gracefully part ways. There are no hard feelings between us. We are simply doing what is now best for ourselves.

Erin, hi. I'm truly sorry. Somehow I feel (emotional verb used purposefully) you are a victim of this mess along with the baby, perhaps because I'm a woman.

I appreciate that any break-up hurts. But to say sex and abortion haven't deepened your pain - signficantly, I might add - is to be in denial, Erin.

This is all so age-old. Women equate sex with love, no matter how feminists have tried to make that not so. Men equate sex with sex, particularly young men. Young women are exploited by sex. Abortion adds to the exploitation. Men rely on it to have sex without consequences. It is women and aborted babies who bear the consequences.

Hal, how can you "see no evidence" Dan was and is a cad? Here he is less than two months after encouraging - whether covertly or overtly - his girlfriend to abort, shipping her off to GA with idiotic platitudes of wanting her to experience the zest of life he has already experienced, and now flirting and bragging about what a great lover he is. Yuck.

Jill- a previous relationship which involved no sex or abortion, actually made me several times more upset than this one. And no one shipped me off to Georgia- Dan cried when he heard I'd decided to go back home.

Ok, Erin.

"Young women are exploited by sex."

Sounds like the views of an older woman, not a younger one.

As for bragging about being a great lover, I guess I missed that. And, "yuck" is right... if that's what he did (depending perhaps on how he did it). I also can't get past the "skinhead" references either. Maybe I missed an explaination of why he woudl pick such an offensive screen name.

It makes me sad to think that Erin and Dan are going through a tough time because of having to part ways, yet you're on here, Jill, trying to make them feel even worse when obviously the thing you're trying to make either of them feel guilty for isn't even relevant to the situation. Erin had to move because of extenuating circumstances. They do what they can to move on. You sit here and try to cook up some story to make Dan feel like a jerk (when his "lover" thing was in a reference to a joke about Scottish men, ahem...check for yourself, even MK was joking around with him about Scots in kilts and less-than-PG things). People break up. It's a fact of life, with or without abortions or no (I know someone who had an abortion and is still with her boyfriend...OOPS!). You just read into things too much...whether you like it or not, not all disappointing things in life are a result of abortion!

"I'm sorry to see you go, but I know why you're leaving. I called you out on so quickly moving on post-Erin's abortion, as I predicted a month ago. Truth hurts.

Coming here is a reminder of all that unpleasantness. I understand. But fyi, leaving here won't stop those thoughts, Dan.

There's only one way out of the haunting you're going to endure your entire life otherwise, Dan: Jesus, who forgives sins and makes us white as snow. I know.

Dan, I've told you before I think a lot about you and Erin. My heart breaks for you both while at the same time you anger me. I consider you both, particularly you, utterly selfish.

I knew then this was nonsense. So quickly you've moved on. Young ladies, this is SH Dan. Beware. He'll do the same to you"

I figured I'd come back to see if anyone had left anything for me to read, mainly MK. Unfortunately Jill, you self-righteous harlot, this is where I draw the line.

Guess what? I have no regrets on the abortion. I have a few regrets in my relationship with Erin, and hope that time will heal them and we will be able to become friends again. For right now, that's not an option. That's reality, sweetheart. You should come visit sometime.

I have my reasons for leaving, one of the main ones being that I really only come here to talk, and that I really don't belong here talking and debating on this board when I really don't care about the matter. I have my beliefs and my convictions, and I'll stand by them. But, the only guilty feeling I have is coming here and debating over things that really don't have anything to do with pro-life/pro-choice. Erin and I have had some issues recently, one of them concerning the board, and I said I'd stop posting here as a resolution.

As for the convert propoganda, bite me. I'm not going to convert to a religion that has so many loopholes and flaws in it just because I broke up with my girlfriend. It was a break-up. It happens. Life goes on.

The only unpleasantness to be had from this board is me somehow upsetting Erin by still posting. I'm sure she'll understand why I defended myself, but I'm not coming back here if it's going to cause friction. I'm already on the brink of losing my friend, and I don't want that to happen.

So, Jill, for all my eloquent words and what not, I'm going to dumb it down so you can understand what I'm saying loud and clear. Don't assume you know me. Don't assume you know what is going on in my life. Don't assume that because you run a pro-life blog means you are the Alpha and Omega of abortion.

Sod off, and don't call me out again, unless you are prepared to reap what you sow. That is not a threat of physical violence, nor is it a threatening promise. That means don't talk smack about someone who actually knows how to defend himself.

To everyone else, sorry you had to read this.

"I also can't get past the "skinhead" references either. Maybe I missed an explaination of why he woudl pick such an offensive screen name."

Email me for a history lesson, Hal. Skinhead was started by the black man, and not all of us are racist murderers.

I didn't assume you were a racist murderer. You and Erin seem like great people. I assumed I didn't understand the reference, and I guess you're saying I was correct.

I'll do some research. Best of luck to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead

I'm a SHARP/ Trad Skin, or I was. I'm retired now.

Dan, 1:24p, said: "Guess what? I have no regrets on the abortion."

And you wonder why Erin wants you to stop posting here? Knife in the heart, my friend.

Dan, 1:24p, said: "Sod off, and don't call me out again, unless you are prepared to reap what you sow. That is not a threat of physical violence, nor is it a threatening promise. That means don't talk smack about someone who actually knows how to defend himself."

Spare me the false bravado peacock strut, Dan. You had your chance to be brave.

"And you wonder why Erin wants you to stop posting here? Knife in the heart, my friend."

What heart is there to knife? Apparently if you're pro-choice, you don't have a heart.

"Spare me the false bravado peacock strut, Dan. You had your chance to be brave."

Yeah, I did, and I took my chance. Bravery isn't measured in Jill Stanek standards. You really should start taking some medicine for your schizophrenia. The fact that you've rejected this reality and subsituted it with your own [hehe Mythbusters] isn't healthy, and I really think you should get it checked out.

No offense, Jill, but now that I've said my piece, anything you say back is just going to appear as a flustered attempt to regain what little dignity you had left.

Face it. You lost this one. You can't hurt me because your words are as hollow as your thick skull. Stop trying and give up. I'm not going to let you provoke me into another argument, because I know how to be the bigger person and walk away. Besides, it's no fun to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Dan, the heart you knifed by saying you had "no regrets" about Erin's abortion was Erin's, you stupid, stupid man.

Most people don't regret abortions. I don't recall Erin regretting her abortion. I don't see why Dan not regretting it would hurt Erin at all.

Dan -

Thanks for the skinhead reference. I was confused (a rare thing for me, I know) about it too.

I have been impressed with you and Erin's honesty on here. It takes some "balls" to come on a pro-life site and admit to an abortion. I really wish you wouldn't leave as you have brought up many great points and have forced me (and possibly many) of us to really think about our positions. Of course, you only made me feel stronger about my positions. ;-)

I would like to be so bold as to ask a favor. Would you cut and paste Jill's comments and save them. And in a year, read them again. I'm not saying a 'light' will come on and you will see 'the error of your ways'. I'm saying that you might be able to take some of your emotions out of what you read and remove some of the anger towards her so you can hear what she is saying. Or it just may piss you off further and get you to start posting again. Either way, we all win right? ;-)

Whatever you choose, good luck.

SH Dan, stay!

Does it make anyone else mad that while we are funding PP so women may receive free reproductive care but at the same time they are inticing women to spend money on useless jewelry and spa items (during their free visit?)

Doesn't make much sense to me. What are they doing with the profits from the sale of this crap?

Instead of women spending their dollars on uneccessary junk jewelry maybe they should be saving it for their next gyno exam so the rest of us don't have to pay for it.

What will they do next to expand their merchandise line?

I assume the "profits" they make from useless jewelry (is there any other kind) help subsidize the medical care they provide. I assume also that some planned parenthood patients have some abilty to pay and do pay something. The poorest are probably not buying candles and jewelry.

What a strange thing to get mad about.

"Dan, the heart you knifed by saying you had "no regrets" about Erin's abortion was Erin's, you stupid, stupid man."

Ah, and the Feminazi rears her ugly head to throw a sieg heil to all womankind.

When I supposedly knifed her heart, was this while I was drunk or intoxicated in any way, shape, or form? I seem to remember leaving the decision up to Erin after we weighed our options, and I also remember asking her how she felt about it after the procedure, and being told that she felt relieved. Now, if she lied and does feel regret or upset about it, then there's not much I can do at this point in time. All I can say is that I believed her to be honest in her opinion about the effects of the procedure. Let her answer this one, bonehead. You're grasping at straws, and it's getting pathetic.

@ Heather4Life & Valerie: I would love to stay, but I don't belong on this board, and I did give my word to stay away from this site. I'm posting here to defend myself when someone calls me out. Other than that, I'm done. Also, no matter what happens, if I even remember who Jill is in a year, I will not forget the words, or what emotions they stirred within me. Sorry kids. Best of luck to you!

Hal -

"Most people don't regret abortions. "

That is what many people say. However, According to the American Psychological Association 76% of people who have had abortions feel relief afterwards. However, they do say that a "few" women will regret their decision and "many" will feel sadness or grief. Isn't regret, sadness and grief the foundations of depression?

Anywho - Let us do the math okay? The APA also says that 17% report feelings of guilt afterwards. There are about 1.3 million abortions performed every year. That means that 221,000 people have had problems with their abortion. I can't find anything about the missing 7% to this study. But wherever they are that is another 91,000.

I think you're proving my point. "many" doesn't tell us anything about percentages. With 1.3 million abortions, even 1% would be "many" people, but not "most."

17% report feeling guilt (who knows, maybe because people keep telling them they've killed their baby)

That's not "most." Jill was assuming that Erin regrets, would regret, or should regret her abortion. Jill said that Dan "put a knife in her [Erin's] heart" by saying he had no regrets about their abortion. I was simply disagreeing, since neither Erin nor Dan seem to be in the 17% of people who regret their abortions. Don't see why Dan's lack of regret about the abortion would bother Erin at all.

Dan,
If you're still here. You and Erin have been open with everything regarding your situation.

Why doesn't she want you posting here anymore?

If you're still friends, why can't you both still post here?

Sorry to be short. Gotta run. I will check later for answers.

"Dan,
If you're still here. You and Erin have been open with everything regarding your situation.

Why doesn't she want you posting here anymore?

If you're still friends, why can't you both still post here?"

We've been discussing some issues that were never brought up during the course of our relationship, and we decided it would be good if we both steered clear of each other for a while.

As for posting, Erin considers this her safe haven, and I did somewhat intrude upon it. She asked if I would stop posting and I agreed because I think losing website posting rights is better than losing a friend.

Yes, we've been open. At the same time, there are things better left unsaid.

SH Dan, okay. Understood.

SH Dan,

Unless we actually live in a relationship we know nothing about what goes on, we can only make assumptions. Who on this blog has not had a relationship fail, or can be certain a relationship won't? My best to you SH Dan. I'll miss your posts and will always remember your very kind and supportive e-mail to Dan.

I'm glad Erin considers this a safe haven.

"Does it make anyone else mad that while we are funding PP so women may receive free reproductive care but at the same time they are inticing women to spend money on useless jewelry and spa items (during their free visit?)"

I have never seen these when I've gone to PP. Not saying that other PP don't have these products.

I will say, however I might regret this later, they do pressure me to give a donation (seen my BC has been free and my exams). There was one time I told them I really couldn't afford it at the time, but in a month when i came for my exam I would give a donation.

I want to state again that I called the PP I go to and asked them if they performed abortions. I have been curious ever since I've been coming to Jill's site... which has been for a few months now. And they stated they DO NOT perform them.

I also think:

There will alway be people that regret they had an abortion.

There will always be people that are happy with their decision to abort.

There will always be people that are happy with their decision to keep or give the child up for adoption.

There will always be people that have the child and wish they'd had an abortion.

I want to share a story. About a week ago heather 4life.. i think it was her.. made a comment to me. She said something along the lines of: "some parents would force their child to abort even though they don't want to (this happened to a friend of midnites) a parent or guardian should still be aware of the pregnancy" Although it is obvious that things like this happen, I had never really thought about it.

Anyway back to my story. Heather4life made me think of this.... I have a friend whose parents forced her to give her child up for adoption, when she wanted to keep it, (she was under 18) How does everyone feel about this? Should my friend have been forced to give her child up?

FYI: a few years later my friend become pregnant and said the following to her parents "I am not giving the child up for adoption. Theres no way I can go through that again." She had the child and kept it. Sydney is now seven.

JM, not all PP's abort, but all PP's funnel to PP's that abort. They locate their mills in minority urban areas and college towns.

Jill-

I live in a college town. Well until Friday when i move to a bigger college town

Jill,
I wasn' surprised that the PP i go to doesn't abort. It is a very small clinic. Probably 3 or for examination rooms.

OK.

Let me clear up a couple things.

The reason I told Dan I'd prefer him not posting here any longer is because for one, he doesn't honestly have a serious political stand on the issue. What he knows about it comes for the political ramblings I subjected him to all year. Second, we have decided it would be beneficial for us to no longer be in contact. Thirdly, the first time Dan came on here, it was to defend me. Then it grew into something he just wanted to do because he was trying to support me- which backfired, because debating and politics has always been one of my favourite distractions and it honestly felt like I had my own little world apart from everyone around me. Also, as soon as I was gone, he started adding 'skinhead' to his name- which even though I know the history, I find it blatantly provocative that he would feel the need to insert it. People jump to conclusions and for the pro-choice cause in general it's better not to use a term that has a nasty connotation. As soon as I wasn't censoring his posts and nagging at him, he started doing things I had requested that he not do- like making threats and bickering.

Finally, Jill, if anyone was the heartbreaker in this situation, it was me.

JM -

"How does everyone feel about this? Should my friend have been forced to give her child up? "

It may not seem like it at the time, but parents do what they feel is best for their children. They do make mistakes. But I do not think it is up to the government to tell parents what they should do in this situation. Some parents force, some parents advise, some parents let their child make the entire decision - whatever it is, the parents know more about their child than the government or some lobbiest trying to get their 2 seconds of fame.

I also want to add that the conversation you are referring to was on the "parental notification" poll post. We were discussing if parents should or should not be notified.

Hal -

"With 1.3 million abortions, even 1% would be "many" people, but not "most."

17% report feeling guilt (who knows, maybe because people keep telling them they've killed their baby)"

Do you really think that if the number was 1% they wouldn't have had it all over their report? Erin may never feel regret, guilt, shame, etc. What I am saying is that the studies are all vague and inconsistent which means there is a possibiltiy she may.

"since neither Erin nor Dan seem to be in the 17% of people who regret their abortions"

Most of the studies were done on the women who had an abortion 1 year or more ago. No one knows what percentage they will be in. Not even them. At the age of 37 I regret alot of what I did at the age of 27 etc. But I never thought I would feel that way.

Erin -

I think it is good that you stay here. If you never feel regret, you can rub it in our faces. If you do feel regret, you know who you can turn to. Sound like a deal? ;-)

Erin, we are here for you.

Erin, you're dealing with a lot, and I don't want to add to it by further dissecting your relationship with Dan, which I obviously know very little about.

Erin, I appreciate that you come here to debate and to exercise a part of your mind you can't exercise elsewhere. It's actually like that for me, too, to some extent.

I've also always appreciated your honesty, which you again displayed in your most recent post. I disagree with you, but I don't want to disagree with you to the point I hurt you. I apologize if I have in the past, which I likely have.

Your relationship with Dan has played out like a soap opera here, actually. It has been intriguing. It has made quite the armchair psychologist case study. I can't say any of its devolvement has come as a surprise, even though you and I disagree on the elements of all that.

Thanks for the explanation.

PS: Dan is immature. You made him a better person.

Erin,

I'm glad you're staying as well. Like I told Dan, unless you live in someone else's relationship, you have absolutely no idea what goes on. We can speculate, observe, and assume, but we never truly "know". I've seen many a "perfect" marriage end in divorce. I've also been annoyed at co-workers, family members, and friends who "knew" why a relationship was failing.
I'll look forward to seeing more of your posts and wish you and Dan the best.

Erin, you always post with a lot of respect. I think you are brave to come here, even though the Life side disagrees with you. I'm sure that you may be hurt by some of the things you hear. Please note; We do not hate or dislike you. We hate abortion! You are not a bad person. Abortion is a bad act. Erin, I am the queen of poor choices and mistakes. We all screw up! I'm glad you will stay. I always enjoy your posts. I'm sorry if I have ever personally offended you.

Hi everyone!
I've missed y'all this summer, had a couple minutes to check in...
To Erin and Dan, although I wasn't here to know all the goings on about your relationship, I sincerely hope for both of you the best.
I read something Sandy posted about the stuff being sold at PP. Doesn't anyone else find it strange? I guess I'm not really thinking about buying earrings when I'm getting a pap at my gynes...

and I second what Heather just said.

Hi Janet!!!!!! Where have you been????

Hi back at ya, Heather!!!!
We just got back from New England to visit fam out there/get some r&r by the lake. My prayers have been with all of you, though. It's funny-when I first started coming out here as a first time blogger, I had no idea how one can really start caring for people they've never met. I'm thankful for all of you, not just the lifers.

Tacklehugs to Janet!! Good to see you back.

Eh. I am annoyed by this however...PP appears to be wasting money on pointless things like bath oils of all things when they should be taking that money to allow them to hand out higher quality condoms (because according to Consumer Reports, PP condoms are the worst) and prescribe better birth control. As far as I know, PP only prescribes "Lite" BC, which have lower hormones and there have been studies that show "Lite" BC is actually LESS effective than normal BC, and it's more suited for hormone/period regulation as opposed to pregnancy prevention.

Rae,

I think several people on this blog would argue that the purpose is not to suit the individual for hormone/period regulation... but for the purpose of impregnating young women and forcing them into abortion. So that PP in turn makes more of a profit.

As I stated before, I have never seen these oils and candles for sale at the PP I go to. I must say I am glad because I think it would have turned me off. It does seem rather annoying.

Rae, JM, thanks for the honest feedback. I feel like we're making headway.

Rae, really? Interesting point that I was unaware of.