Advocates of human embryo destruction experimentation almost always list Alzheimer's as a disease they hope it will cure.

This is a myth, a lie. As the Washington Post reported three years ago, "of all the diseases that may someday be cured by embryonic stem cell treatments, Alzheimer's is among the least likely to benefit."

This is because Alzheimer's does not arise from a specialized population of brain cells. "[I]n contrast to Parkinson's, diabetes and spinal injuries, Alzheimer's disease involves the loss of huge numbers and varieties of the brain's 100 billion nerve cells - and countless connections, or synapses, among them," explained the Post article.

That information was backdrop for this point.

The June issue of AARP Bulletin, a publication by the American Association of Retired Persons, the largest American nonprofit advocacy group for those aged 50+, contained this....

"Within three years, it's all but certain we'll have disease-modifying drugs that fundamentally change the nature of Alzheimer's," says Sam Gandy, M.D., chair of the National Medical and Scientific Advisory Council of the Alzheimer's Association and director of the Farber Institute for Neurosciences in Philadelphia.

Neil Buckholtz, chief of the Dementias of Aging Branch at the National Institute on Aging in Bethesda, MD, adds, "We've gone from drugs that help for a time with the symptoms of Alzheimer's to trying to develop drugs that will actually slow down or reverse the disease itself."...

Scientists are... confident that one of the more than four dozen other drugs now in human trials will succeed....

Experts say there is a solid basis for all this optimism: Today's drug trials are the fruit of 20 years of scientific work on Alzheimer's.

"We're now at a point where we understand enough about the molecules and mechanisms of the disease to target new therapies very, very precisely," says Douglas R. Galasko, M.D., interim director of the Alzheimer's Disease Research Center at the University of California, San Diego....

This next generation of drugs is designed to prevent, destroy and clean out deposits of beta-amyloid plaque that kill the brain's nerve cells, leading to the devastating loss of memory, reason and, ultimately, life that characterizes Alzheimer's.

Imagine that. No human embryo dissections needed. Try not to forget.

[Hat tip: Mome]

I'll be surprised if they don't still try.

I thought the idea of stem cell research is the ability to reconstruct tissues...can't we reconstruct brain tissue?

Moooooo~oooooo~mmmmmmm!

Diana got mad and left and valerie hardly came home at all and danny was mean to me *sniff* and heather stayed up all night reading and didn't do her homework and jaspser and rae are fighting again and bethany drew a scary picture and now i'm having nightmares and SoMG is a bad man and heather4life didn't hand in her questions and alyssa left and didn't tell anyone where she was going and she hasn't called or anything and laura is telling lies and somebody took all my mullets and drank all the rum. I did the dishes and made the beds and was perfect!

Welcome home ma!

PIP, hi, I haven't talked to you in awhile. Hope all is well. I still think of your "Al" video. Any more in the works?

Re: your question, to augment the information I cited above on the difference between Alzheimer's and cell specific or cell centralized diseases like diabetes or Parkinson's is this, from a column by Michael Reagan in 2004 (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=4286):

"Writing in the Weekly Standard, lawyer, ethicist and human life advocate Wesley J. Smith reported that 'Researchers have apparently known for some time that embryonic stem cells will not be an effective treatment for Alzheimer's, because as two researchers told a Senate subcommittee in May, it is a "whole brain disease," rather than a cellular disorder (such as Parkinson's).'"

MK, now, now. Let's talk this through. What made Diana mad? How was Danny mean to you? And btw, where are Cameron and Less?

Wellllll,

Diane said we shouldn't use emotions to win points for our side, and I said Diane didn't have any emotions and then she went away...and when all of us were playing a game (real nicely) Danny played a bad trick on me, but he said he was sooooorry, so I like him again. Cameron is here and he's been very, very nice, don't be scared, and I don't know where Less is, but Alyssa ranned away with a boy named Harry Potter and nobody has seen her since. And SoMG is still a baaaaad maaaaaan. I don't like him. He scares me. I'm just glad you came home mom.

Hi PiP,

Decades ago researchers in Germany developed a medical strategy called 'Cell Therapy'. It was used successfully on a number of brain dysfunctions like cerebral palsy. It worked to regenerate axons and dendrites that had cell-bodies intact and 'alive' [although 'functionally' dead]. It was partially successful, but could not repair cells with dead DNA.

This same effect should assist people with Alzheimer's. However, the improvement will be short-lived because modern research efforts insist on using stem cells as if they were more drugs. These are cells that need the support of nutrients and proper stimulation to function rightly. AD is now considered a disease where heavy-metal poisoning (aluminum) + amyloid plaque build-up from A.G.E.S. ( a misstep in excretion by carnosine), play huge roles. But most orthodox approaches do not even recognize a nutrient connection. So adding any stem cells will only act as new fuel in the degeneration process.

Less is on vacation.

Awww, MK, Jasper and I weren't really fighting too much, we were having a heated discussion. It was all cleared up without too much dust/bloodshed, right Jasper? :-p

That's right Rae-Rae.

@Jasper: It really wasn't a fight-fight...we've had worse arguments in the past, I felt last night's was very civil compared to what they used to be.

I have orange hands.

My brother is 18 now...eep!

Hello Rae and jasper. Laura and I were coming to cyberspace blows on the second post. *wipes bloody nose*

"we've had worse arguments in the past"

yes, I agree. ... your brother is 18? I thought you were 18? you must be close in age...

OOPs, hi John, PIP, Rosie, MK and Jill [got you 2 earlier]

Alzheimers is such a wicked disease.

@Jasper: My brother is 18, I'm 19 and a half (little over 5 months till I'm 20...eep!) We're 17 months apart. I have another brother, but he's 12, he was what my parents call an "Oops..." but a welcome "Oops...". :D

MMOOOOMMMM!!!!

Welcome home!

MK is not telling the whole truth....

I didn't come home because I was working! I swear I didn't have anything to do with the missing mullets or the missing Rum. And MK had the dish run away with the spoon again!!!

Glad your back.....

;-)

MK- Are you all right? What has got into you??? (Sorry, I've been away, Harry Potter kidnapped me as well).

Now to the topic at hand: Isn't curing Parkinson's, diabetes and spinal injuries not ENOUGH reasons to support stem cell research? Or are those diseases not as worth as Alzheimer's?? Just food for though. Now carry on!!

Midnite, I don't know if you remember this or not, but I posted something to you about Adult Stem cells and their true potential to cure diseases like parkinsons (when you had posted about your grandmother who died of parkinsons).

I didn't mention the spinal injuries at that time, but I will now:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-smith042302.asp

"
....Patients with Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis received significant medical benefit using experimental adult-stem-cell regenerative medical protocols. These are benefits that supporters of embryonic-stem-cell treatments have yet to produce widely in animal experiments. Yet adult stem cells are now beginning to ameliorate suffering in human beings.

Celebrity Parkinson's disease victims such as Michael J. Fox and Michael Kinsley regularly tout ESCR as the best hope for a cure of their disease. Indeed, the Washington Post recently published a Kinsley rant on the subject in which the editor and former Crossfire co-host denounced opponents of human cloning as interfering with his hope for a cure. Yet as loudly as Fox and Kinsley promote ESCR in the media or before legislative committees, both have remained strangely silent about the most remarkable Parkinson's stem-cell experiment yet attempted: one in which researchers treated Parkinson's with the patient's own adult stem cells.

Here's the story, in case you missed it: A man in his mid-50s had been diagnosed with Parkinson's at age 49. The disease grew progressively, leading to tremors and rigidity in the patient's right arm. Traditional drug therapy did not help.

Stem cells were harvested from the patient's brain using a routine brain biopsy procedure. They were cultured and expanded to several million cells. About 20 percent of these matured into dopamine-secreting neurons. In March 1999, the cells were injected into the patient's brain.

Three months after the procedure, the man's motor skills had improved by 37 percent and there was an increase in dopamine production of 55.6 percent. One year after the procedure, the patient's overall Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale had improved by 83 percent � this at a time when he was not taking any other Parkinson's medication!

That is an astonishing, remarkable success, one that you would have thought would set off blazing headlines and lead stories on the nightly news. Had the treatment been achieved with embryonic stem cells, undoubtedly the newspapers would have screamed loudly enough to be heard. Unfortunately, reportage about the Parkinson's success story was strangely muted. True, the Washington Post ran an inside-the-paper story and there were some wire service reports. But the all-important New York Times � the one news outlet that drives television and cable news � did not report on it at all. Nor did a search of the Los Angeles Times website yield any stories about the experiment."

" Israeli doctors inserted a paraplegic patient's own white blood cells into her severed spinal cord, after which she regained bladder control and the ability to wiggle her toes and move her legs. (I only saw reporting on this case in the Globe and Mail, June 15, 2001.)
Immune systems destroyed by cancer were restored in children using stem cells from umbilical-cord blood. (There was a good story in the April 16, 2001 Time, but other than that I saw no reporting.)
At Harvard University, mice with Type I diabetes were completely cured of their disease. The experiment was so successful that human trials are now planned. (This was reported in the July 19, 2001, Harvard University Gazette, but I saw no coverage at all in the mainstream press.)
Diabetic mice treated with adult stem cells achieved full insulin production and all lived. This is in contrast to an experiment in which embryonic stem cells injected into diabetic mice achieved a 3 percent insulin production rate and all the mice died. (According to the May 2001 STATS, published by the Statistical Assessment Service, the embryo experiment made big news while the media ignored the adult cell experiment.)
How many humans have been treated by embryonic stem cells? Zero. Indeed, before human trials can even be safely undertaken researchers will have to overcome two serious difficulties that stand between patients and embryonic-cell regenerative medicine: 1) ES cells cause tumors, and 2) ES cells may be rejected by the immune system. Surmounting these difficulties � if they can be surmounted at all � will take a very long time and much expense. There is no risk of rejection with adult cells, by contrast, because they come from the patients' own bodies. Nor, at least so far, does adult-stem-cell therapy appear to cause tumors. This puts adult therapies years ahead of the game."

Beneficiary of Adult Stem Cell Treatment for Parkinson's Disease

On Spinal injuries:
Paraplegic breakthrough using adult stem cells
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46546

Adult stem cells and Spinal Cord Injuries
http://www.blogicus.com/archives/adult_stem_cells_and_spinal_cord_injuries.php

Real-World Successes of Adult Stem Cell Treatmenthttp://www.cogforlife.org/adultStemCellSuccess.htm

Adult Human Neural Stem Cell Therapy Successful In Treating Spinal Cord Injury
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/09/050920074831.htm

Now the question is...why are you, and everyone else so set on Embryonic Stem Cell research, so opposed to adult stem cell therapy, when it's actually helping people, not just potentially?

Bethany,

My grandmother had diabetes, and my grandfather had Parkinsons.

And I didnt say anything about embryonic stem cell, I just said stem cell. Thanks for the links though. But I honestly dont care how the research is done, just that it is done.

Take a moment and google "adult stem cell parkinsons" and see how many links come up.... also google "adult stem cell spinal cord injuries".... you'll be amazed.

Oops, I must have posted at the same time as you. ;)

Midnite, believe me...we pro-lifers wholeheartedly support stem cell research...as long as it's not killing human life, in order to help human life!

Bethany,

Just a thought: But abortions are going to keep happening for the time being (they're still legal), why not use the stem cells from them and adult??

Because, to me that's the same as suggesting we do the same for any born human being. It's a disgusting thought.

I think that all innocent humans deserve dignity and respect, whether they're "going to die" or not.

Someone brought up the point of the death roe inmates. Why don't we do experiments on them, since they're 'going to die anyway'? Would you be supportive of this?

Do you see where I am coming from? It's unethical to kill life to "save life"...or to exploit an atrocious situation for a "good cause". I don't agree with it... I think it's horrid. And I think it comes with it's own set of consequences (rats with huge tumors, anyone? )

Bethany,
Just a thought: But abortions are going to keep happening for the time being (they're still legal), why not use the stem cells from them and adult??

If infanticide was legal, would you support using their bodies for experimentation and medicinal purposes, as long as it was legal (and going to be happening anyway)?

Midnite -

Does the end justify the means?

Should we use the medical knowledge found from the concentration camps? Those people are dead, so shouldn't we use it?

Should we be able to take the organs of a terminally ill patient before he dies in order to save the young mother of three?

Should we be able to let a child with a heart defect succumb to his disease so the child who needs a kidney can live?

These people are all going to die in the very near future, is it okay to use them to save others?

Does the end justify the means.

I'm sure you can see the slow slippery path that we are taking in the name of "science". What happens if we kill all these developing humans and nothing ever comes from it? Was it the effort that justify's the mass destruction?

A friend e-mailed me this post-appropriate prayer given in Kansas at the opening session of their Senate:

It seems Prayer still upsets some people. When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate,

Everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:

"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and
to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to
those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We
have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.
We have abused power and called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from Every
sin and set us free.

Amen!"

The response was immediate.

A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest. In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively. The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India , Africa and Korea . Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, "The Rest of the Story," and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired. With the Lord's help! , may this prayer sweep over our nation and whole heartedly become our desire so that we again can be called "One nation Under God."

If possible, please pass this prayer on to your friends. "If you don't
Stand for something, you will fall for everything."

Told you midgets were in trouble!

Brownback, with Sen. Edward Kennedy, D.-Mass., as a cosponsor, introduced July 18 the Prenatally and Postnatally Diagnosed Conditions Awareness Act. The same senators sponsored a similar bill in 2005.

The bill requires parents who receive a diagnosis of Down syndrome or another impairment for their child before birth or until a year after birth be provided with the latest information on the condition and be informed of support services available. It also would establish a registry of families willing to adopt special needs children.

It is estimated about 90 percent of children diagnosed in the womb with Down syndrome are aborted. A similar abortion percentage exists for unborn babies diagnosed with spina bifida, cystic fibrosis and dwarfism, according to a release from Brownback's office.

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=26115

MaryKay, Isn't it sad...the futile attempt to destroy anything that isn't perfection. It seems like they just keep adding new reasons to kill people!

Hmm, what about people who are not going to be midgets but they will be a little shorter than the rest of their class? What about the children who will have a lazy eye? Maybe we could find a way to abort the children who are going to be ADHD? Maybe we could abort the children who might be made fun by their classmates for their big nose, or tiny ears....etc etc Oh the possibilities are endless!

The bill requires parents who receive a diagnosis of Down syndrome or another impairment for their child before birth or until a year after birth be provided with the latest information on the condition and be informed of support services available. It also would establish a registry of families willing to adopt special needs children.

I like this idea... a lot!

Chesterton says: "Let all the babies be born, then let us drown those we don't like..." wise words!

my email to the abortion doc "beket" from the dailykos blog (he wrote that women get their angel wings when they have an abortion:

Jasper: You will have to answer one day for your atrocities.

The Abortionists response:
No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it, and you might be wrong - very wrong.

How about these REAL atrocities:

The World Health Organization has estimated that in those parts of the world in which abortion is illegal, about 70,000 thinking, feeling, often desperate women and teenage girls die every year from illegal attempts to abort unwanted pregnancies. That is more than one every 10 minutes dead because they are prohibited by law from accessing safe, legal, professional abortion care. Many times that number are seriously injured and maimed for life.

In addition, every minute, night and day, no holidays or weekends off, around the world
one woman dies of complications of pregnancy and childbirth (every minute),
ten teenage girls undergo unsafe illegal abortions (every minute),
thirteen infants under twelve months old die (every minute),
fifty seven people contract an STD (every minute),
eleven people are infected with HIV (every minute),
and the already-burgeoned-beyond-the-planet's-capacity-to-sustain human population increases by one hundred fifty more people (every minute),
all sanctioned, encouraged, and even enforced by our callous right-wing-dominated government through international interference with and withholding of funding from worldwide reproductive health and sex education programs, all with the vigorous support and reinforcement of the Roman Catholic Church.
Let's not forget the women brutalized and incarcerated by law enforcement in those countries in which the Roman Catholic Church has pushed for and won the criminalization of abortion and achieved that cruel piece of "God's will on Earth be done." In countries such as Chile and El Salvador women having not only induced abortions, but spontaneous abortions (miscarriages), are routinely subjected to police investigations and interrogation, arrested, and incarcerated. Many women having natural miscarriages are so afraid of such persecution and prosecution that they avoid seeking medical care in such situations, and some (many I would think) die.

abortionist email: FrSuMD@aol.com

I'd like to see his proof that that many women are dying from illegal abortions.

The pro-abortionists cannot seem to get their numbers right, ever.

From abortionfacts.com:

On June 18, 1989, CNN World Report, in an hour-long documentary, stated that in Brazil there are 6 million illegal abortions each year and 400,000 women die. But the U.N. Demographic Yearbook of 1988 lists only 40,000 women, age 15-44, dying each year of all causes. Pop. Research Inst. Review, Jan. 1991, p. 12

In Portugal the claimed figure was 2,000 deaths. The actual number of deaths of females between the ages of 15-46 was 2,106 in the same year from all natural causes, accidents and illness. There were only 97 listed in the "complications of pregnancy" of which 12 were due to abortion, including spontaneous and induced, legal and illegal. Portuguese Anuario Estatistico, Tables 11, 16, 111 221

In Italy, the claimed figure before their abortion referendum was 20,000. In the age group 15-45, there were actually only 11,500 female deaths from all causes. Primum Non Nocere, vol. IV, no. 1, 1983

In Germany the claim was that 15,000 women died annually. In fact, only 13,000 women of reproductive age died annually in West Germany, and less than 100 died of complications of abortion, legal and illegal. Kurchoff, Deutches Arzteblatt, vol. 69, no. 27, Oct. 26, 1972

At the United Nations Habitat meeting in Istanbul, Turkey, in June 1996, the following "fact" was given wide publicity: The UNICEF suddenly claimed that 585,000 women die each year from causes related to pregnancy and birth.

The pro-life NGO’s for the family immediately answered, "This is wild. According to the U.N. Demographic Year Book for 1990, the total known maternal deaths worldwide for 1986 and 1987 numbered 11,924 (around 6,000 per year). This figure encompasses countries covering 35% of the world’s population." U.N. Conference, Istanbul, June 1996

Also, I think this is really interesting (again from abortionfacts.com)

I’d still worry that if you forbid abortion, it will just go back to back-alley butchery and lots of mothers dying.

We’ve had an example of an entire nation in recent years. It was Poland. Under Communist rule in the ’80s, there were consistently over 100,000 abortions registered each year as compared to about 600,000 births. With the establishment of some self-government in 1990, with both the Church and doctors discouraging abortion, the numbers fell to 59,400.

Let’s list the 1990 figures and then look ahead to 1994, the second year after abortion was forbidden except for danger to the life or health of the mother, rape and fetal handicap.
1990 - 1994
Total abortions 59,417- 782
Women’s deaths 90 -57
connected with pregnancy
Miscarriages 59,454 - 49,970
Cases of infanticide 31 -17
Births 546,000 - 482,000

During this time the number of registered abortions declined to 176th of what it had been, and there was not a single death due to illegal abortion. All of these figures are exactly opposite of what International Planned Parenthood people in Poland predicted when the restrictive law was passed

And the logical conclusion would never be to stop having sex outside of marriage...no the solution as always is to kill the babies...

Let's see:
Problems solved by abortion:
one woman dies of complications of pregnancy and childbirth (every minute),
So if we abort all pregnancies to avoid complications, we'll never have another complication. Excellent logic!
ten teenage girls undergo unsafe illegal abortions (every minute),
So every minute 10 teenage girls will have a "safe, legal" abortion every 10 minutes. Great...now 10 babies will die every minute. Marvelous.
thirteen infants under twelve months old die (every minute),
And Jasper is responsible for this how? I guess, (again) that the solution he is proposing is to kill all children in the womb. Then no child will ever be born, making it impossible for them to ever reach the age of twelve months, thereby eliminating the possiblility of them dying at 12 months...unbelievable.
fifty seven people contract an STD (every minute)
Okay. So, encouraging them to continue having sex, and aborting their babies will stop STD's how?
eleven people are infected with HIV (every minute)
Well, then by all means let's encourage homosexuality, so we can up those numbers to 40 people contract HIV every minute. Perfect!
and the already-burgeoned-beyond-the-planet's-capacity-to-sustain human population increases by one hundred fifty more people (every minute)

And Mr. BEKET is volunteering to call Jack Kevorkian and offer up his life to help rid the population of one more person...After all, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...I think this is a great idea! Perhaps everyone who thinks the world is overpopulated should meet at the Empire State building this New Years Eve at midnight, and jump off of it!

Bethany,

Years ago when claims were made of 10,000 plus American women dying every year from illegal abortion, a famous pro-abortion statistician, the late Dr. Christoper Tietze, referred to these inflated figures as "unmitigated nonsense".
That's what you call getting it straight from the horse's mouth.

That's what you call getting it straight from the horse's mouth.

I'd call it getting straight from the horse's something else, but that's just me!

lol

My response to the abortionist with help from Bethany:

Yes, that is an atrocity, even though I know your facts are inflated. This all the more reason to educate these woman that abortion is a crime against humanity, not help and assist them in carrying out that crime. The same goes for STD’s and HIV, they need to be educated on the fact the sex belongs in marriage, as condoms, birth control, etc did nothing to reduce abortion in this country, it only got worse since abortions per year has doubled since the 1970’s. You’re only lying to yourself if you think abortion is the moral thing to do. Who gave you the right to right to end innocent human life?

We’ve had an example of an entire nation in recent years. It was Poland. Under Communist rule in the ’80s, there were consistently over 100,000 abortions registered each year as compared to about 600,000 births. With the establishment of some self-government in 1990, with both the Church and doctors discouraging abortion, the numbers fell to 59,400.

Let’s list the 1990 figures and then look ahead to 1994, the second year after abortion was forbidden except for danger to the life or health of the mother, rape and fetal handicap.
1990 - 1994
Total abortions 59,417- 782
Women’s deaths 90 -57
connected with pregnancy
Miscarriages 59,454 - 49,970
Cases of infanticide 31 -17
Births 546,000 - 482,000

During this time the number of registered abortions declined to 176th of what it had been, and there was not a single death due to illegal abortion. All of these figures are exactly opposite of what International Planned Parenthood people in Poland predicted when the restrictive law was passed

Jasper, I have to say....I'm surprised he is replying. I wouldn't think an abortionist would do that. Please continue to post his responses...I'm curious to see what he says.

And Mr. BEKET is volunteering to call Jack Kevorkian and offer up his life to help rid the population of one more person...After all, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...I think this is a great idea! Perhaps everyone who thinks the world is overpopulated should meet at the Empire State building this New Years Eve at midnight, and jump off of it!

Mk, bravo! I have thought the same thing many times.

Years ago when claims were made of 10,000 plus American women dying every year from illegal abortion, a famous pro-abortion statistician, the late Dr. Christoper Tietze, referred to these inflated figures as "unmitigated nonsense".
That's what you call getting it straight from the horse's mouth.

That's what it is ...just nonsense.

Wait who is replying to Jasper, and why??

Becket is a hack! He's just another abortionist in a Looooooong list of many!

Is Beket still performing abortions? If so, I think he should be ordered an immediate license revocation and a prompt psychiatric evaluation.

his email: FrSuMD@aol.com he's responding so feel free to ask him a question.

the abortionist response to my response:

It is only a strange and cruel BELIEF of yours that freely chosen legal, safe, professional abortion care is an "atrocity" and that a woman or teenage girl must be ruled by your BELIEF, no matter what it means to her and how hurtful it is to her.

You have your BELIEFS about what "should" be. I deal in the real world with what IS.

There are 525,600 minutes in a year. You do the arithmetic. The numbers are so huge as to be virtually impossible to contemplate, but those are the kinds of numbers we deal with when describing events in a world population of 6.5-plus billion individuals that is growing exponentially toward the point of severe degradation and destruction of the biosphere upon which all life depends.

In the United States we are vastly more fortunate. Almost 4,000 women every day obtain professional abortion care in the United States that is legal, professionally provided, and therefore extremely safe. Approximately 40% of all adult women in the country have had an abortion. 40%. Maybe your sister - the teenage girl next door or down the street (yes, no matter how perfect her Sunday School attendance) - your daughter your best friend's daughter - your wife - your mother - your teenage son's girlfriend! You just aren't likely to hear about it because they fearfully keep it secret. Its one of those taboo subjects most people don’t feel free to discuss. Nor do many people want to hear about it, preferring to bolster their comforting false beliefs that it just couldn't be so by screening out and denying factual knowledge of it.

That is what so-called "pro-life" voters and politicians stand for, and they won't stop until they succeed in creating conditions in this country mirroring those in the Third World and in Chile and El Salvador in my examples above.
Please keep YOUR religious BELIEFS to yourself. They don't interest me.
No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it.

I think this guy went off the deep end!

I just e mailed him.

"We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare."
You do know the purpose of welfare...right? With reform, welfare does not encourage laziness. Sigh. I don't want to get in another debate.

Also, where did my comment go?

jasper: I will pray for you doctor that you come to see the light. You could be doing something a lot better with the MD you have.

Abortionist (beket): Pity your "God" made you so dumb and narrow-minded

Nor do many people want to hear about it, preferring to bolster their comforting false beliefs that it just couldn't be so by screening out and denying factual knowledge of it.

You mean the way people don't want to hear about abortion? Preferring to bolster their comforting false beliefs (that no one gets hurt!)that it just couldn't be so by screening out and denying factual knowledge of it (like the fact that 45 MILLION babies have died at the hands of monsters like him! Or the fact that an abortion can be done for any reason whatsoever up until the 9th month of pregnancy, or the fact that every abortion takes a human life, or the fact that the number of illegal abortions pre 1973 was fabricated, or the fact that billions of tax dollars are funding PP, or the factfact STD's can be 100% prevented by abstinence, or the fact that...)oh what's the use, we're not interested in facts anyway, right?

I GOT YOUR FACTS RIGHT HERE:

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosbyage/index.htm
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/index.htm
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/dc/index.htm

I have only one thing to say to your facts!
PHOOEY!

LOL! Beket just sent me some hate mail too.

Well,
POST IT Heather!

This guy is a Psychiatrist too!

http://beket.dailykos.com/

Beket told me that I come off as childish and naive. He provided a link for me to read so that I could understand abortion better.LOL!

MK, Bethany told me how to do it, but I can't find my URL bar.

A psychiatrist? I wonder if he is has diagnosed himself yet. MK, if you write to him, he'll W/B. It only took him about 5 minutes to respond to me. {I told him that he was in need of a straight jacket] Maybe he's not killing babies today.

b e k e t
[ w h a t d o e s b e k e t m e a n ? ] "Little Mouth"
The English surname Beckett is of nickname origin, being one of those names based on a personal or physical characteristic of the original bearer. In this case the name, which was common in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries as Beket, is the diminutive of the Old French word "bec", a little beak or mouth, and simply means one with such a characteristic. Robert Beket appears in the Feet of Fines for Berkshire in 1176 and Robert Becket in the Yorkshire Poll Tax of 1379.

A misnomer as in Mr. Beket has BIG mouth...perhaps he meant "little brain"?

Heather,
MK, Bethany told me how to do it, but I can't find my URL bar.

Where did you have it last?

It's the spot where you type in where you want to go...your search engine?

This guy is a Psychiatrist too!

Don't you mean this guy needs a psychiatrist too!

That sure is fitting. I'm quite sure he didn't appreciate what I had to say. His anger was evident. Lots of bold lettering and exclamation points.

Mk,

on your browser menu, select view-> toolbars->address bar

The web site search? That is @ the top of my screen. So is the google bar and yahoo bar.

I think he meant that for you heather.

on your browser menu, select view-> toolbars->address bar
Posted by: jasper at July 24, 2007 12:31 PM

Yes Heather, that's it...

okay. I see toolbar.

I think you are in need of a psychiatric evaluation. You are an unstable nut job. I'm calling the AMA on you. Your license needs to be revoked!

LOL! Maybe when you become dictator of the universe.

No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it.

You come across as very uninformed, naive, and childish.

Try this. (But beware! You might learn something.)

Abortion Rights 101 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/14/143135/169#c288

I think you are in need of a psychiatric evaluation. You are an unstable nut job. I'm calling the AMA on you. Your license needs to be revoked!

LOL! Maybe when you become dictator of the universe.

No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it.

You come across as very uninformed, naive, and childish.

Try this. (But beware! You might learn something.)

Abortion Rights 101 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/14/143135/169#c288

okay. got it!

The top is from me. The reponse is below. I think I did it right. As you can see that I am not nice to abortionists. I don't like them.

he starts with lol.

Heather,

I read this gem from his link:

beket: "fought struggle against the zealous tyranny of entrenched religious doctrine. The struggle continues. Not only have effective comprehensive sex education, hormonal contraception, and the freedom to choose to safely terminate unwanted pregnancies been among the greatest medical advances in history in bettering the lives, health, and well-being of women"

jasper, Is this jerk on a power trip or what? In the opening topic he says that the RT life woman had an abortion. Well, Apparently she wasn't very RTL in the first place. He seems very angry. That's why I enjoyed rattling his chains.

LOL! He just sent me another e mail. He told me to get some help!

I just asked him if he felt any guilt after performing an abortion... I'm waiting for his response.

Jasper: Do you ever feel any guilt after performing an abortion?

Abortionist beket: "Not a bit. I would feel extreme guilt if I did not respond to the needs of the women and teenage girls to whom I provide care - or if I tried to force my beliefs upon others by law.

I definitely would if I regarded a zygote or an insentient embryo or fetus as not just human but as a human being with rights superceding those of the woman in whose body it obligatorily resides. However, I do not."

..as you will notice, he uses the same argument that Diana, Cam and Lyssie use. .

this is the sick, heartless argument that a unborn baby only has a right to life based on it's "wanted-ness". what a disgrace.

...and then theres this other gem where he attacks a Catholic priest:

http://www.diatribune.com/ecclesiastical-sopranos-abortion-rights-honesty-reason-open-letter-catholic-clergy

Jasper,

Ask about the change in the wording of the Hippocratic oath...

And when he says there is nothing in the bible against abortion, ask him why he brings it up. He doesn't believe in the bible so making it sound like he'd change his opinion if it was is ... oh I don't know...DISHONEST?

The thing is Jasper and Heather,

When dealing with the likes of SoMG and Beket, you really aren't even speaking with people. These guys have been completely taken over by demons. Not influenced, (like many people who are pro-choice) but actually taken over...so when you are arguing with them, you are arguing with a preternatural being. Picture Screwtape. You're just a game to this guy. Just a demon passing time...and you are his little toy...they won't respond to logic, or conscience...what they need is an exorcism!

"These guys have been completely taken over by demons. Not influenced, (like many people who are pro-choice) but actually taken over...so when you are arguing with them, you are arguing with a preternatural being"

Yes, you're quite correct MK. I'll ask him about the Hippocratic oath.

Just catching up on comments. Fyi, Beket's "angel wings" comment makes my column tomorrow...

"Fyi, Beket's "angel wings" comment makes my column tomorrow..."

excellent!

Yes MK. There is no getting through to his demonic fogged brain. I did feel a bit vindicated when he responded to me,"Get some help." Lame and cheesy to say the very least.

The opening paragraphs from Beket seem untruthful. The woman sat up on the operating table and asked him "You aren't going to tell anyone are you?" Say Whaaaaa?? Really? She sat up? I would think that she would be in too much pain to be worried @ that very moment. Why wouldn't she ask him about this prior to the abortion procedure? Nah,something smells.

jasper and MK, it was the same thing with Laura the other day. She sticks up for NOW and Naral. I kept asking her about their lack of outrage when it comes to abortion deaths happening legally. I asked her about abortionists sexually assaulting patients. All she could do was ridicule Dr. Reardon, crack dumb jokes, and deliver low blows to me. She never told me what either organization was good for though.

"All she could do was ridicule Dr. Reardon, crack dumb jokes, and deliver low blows to me."

yea, thats their usual tactic, divert from the real question of abortion.

jasper, that's true. I always love to toss up the "pro woman" stuff to them. Why? Because every time I see a pro choicer on TV, she is always droning on about "The woman's reproductive health and CHOICE to have an abortion." "We will never go back to this!" [waves coat hanger] The prez of PP was just here in my state. She was giving a seminar. Cecile Roberts kept repeating "Women's health." "Keep abortion safe and legal." She has not done her homework. Women are dying now.

Sorry. That's suppossed to be Richards. Cecilie Richards.

Heather4life -

In my latest Feminits For Life Newsletter that I received they talk about how NARAL is trying to stop their College Outreach Program. This program does absolutely nothing to stop abortions. It does nothing to the abortionists and doesn't stop any referals to them. What it does is give college students a real choice in what to do if pregnant or has kids. Pro-life and Pro-choice students are taking part in getting these programs into their schools. One school had a 1 1/2 year wait for daycare for the students! For an unintended pregnancy, this was not an option. Stay in school by abortion, or drop out if you didn't have any help with daycare. What kind of choice is that? This program is designed to help these students.

NARAL wrote a series of attack peices that were published in Wellesley College, Columbia University and George Mason University newspapers just when the FFL president Serrin Foster was schedule to speak at the schools regarding this program. Here is a portion of the piece -

"Serrin Foster .... is bringing her campaign to ban safe and legal abortion to the university....
FFL packages their dangerous campaign to strip women of reproductive rights in pro-women terms, with "Women deserve better" as their slogan. By doing so, the group attempts to appear moderate among pro-life extremists. But do not be fooled, FFL is extreme too."

What is NARAL so afraid of? This is a program that provides real choices to real women who may want a different choice than drop out of school or get an abortion. Some women actually want to continue school and keep their baby!

At Northwestern College a pro-choice student said this about Fosters speech:

"I was hesitant to even come to this event. I'm extremely pro-choice and I really didn't think I could learn anything from some crazy pro-lifer. I figured she would just shove her views down our throats. I was pleasantly surprised. I agreed with many of her points and I'm glad she focused on being constructive...I think we found some common ground. I'm all for making pregnancy a reality here on campus. Let's keep it going."

This has been the reaction of most pro-choicers that attend her 'college outreach seminars'.

Yet, NARAL felt compelled to try to stop this.

NARAL doesn't have feminist rights on their agenda....

Here is the FFL outreach info..

http://www.feministsforlife.org/cop/index.htm

Jasper,

I emailed him too. Here's a copy of our discourse...

ME:And the logical conclusion would never be to stop having sex outside of marriage...no the solution as always is to kill the babies...
Let's see:
Problems solved by abortion:

one woman dies of complications of pregnancy and childbirth (every minute),
So if we abort all pregnancies to avoid complications, we'll never have another complication. Excellent logic!

ten teenage girls undergo unsafe illegal abortions (every minute),
So every minute 10 teenage girls will have a "safe, legal" abortion every 10 minutes. Great...now 10 babies will die every minute. Marvelous.

thirteen infants under twelve months old die (every minute),
And Jasper is responsible for this how? I guess, (again) that the solution he is proposing is to kill all children in the womb. Then no child will ever be born, making it impossible for them to ever reach the age of twelve months, thereby eliminating the possiblility of them dying at 12 months...unbelievable.

fifty seven people contract an STD (every minute)
Okay. So, encouraging them to continue having sex, and aborting their babies will stop STD's how?

eleven people are infected with HIV (every minute)
Well, then by all means let's encourage homosexuality, so we can up those numbers to 40 people contract HIV every minute. Perfect!

and the already-burgeoned-beyond-the-planet's-capacity-to-sustain human population increases by one hundred fifty more people (every minute)

And Mr. BEKET is volunteering to call Jack Kevorkian and offer up his life to help rid the population of one more person...After all, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...I think this is a great idea! Perhaps everyone who thinks the world is overpopulated should meet at the Empire State building this New Years Eve at midnight, and jump off of it!

HIM:
Oh, yes, I've become accustomed to this sort of inability to comprehend and twisting meaning on such sites. I guess it's another example of the failure of education in our nation, largely in such cases due to the interference of delusional religious fundamentalism on developing minds.

Jill Stanek? Oh, yes. Isn't she the nurse who once worked with Dr. Martin Haskell and has devoted her life to perpetuating the outrageous lie that so-called "partial birth abortions" of late term fetuses for frivolous reasons are commonplace and representative of abortion care in general?

I hear some creep on that site believes I am "posessed" by "demons" and need an "exorcism." LOL! You'd almost think someone that crazy had fallen asleep in, say, the 16th century and just woken up.

And they call me "crazy." LOL! Go figure.

ME:Why don't you join us on her site and finish our lovely discussion there...one crazy to another?

HIM:
Because of time constraints and long experience of the utter futility of attempting rational dialogue with religious fanatics.

ME:
Or because your afraid to have real dialogue?
You have time to kill children, and time to answer emails, but when it comes to honest debate, you're suddenly too busy...how convenient.

What's the matter, those mean ole Christians pickin' on you? We can be sooooo scary! You take children apart and put them together like jigsaw puzzles and you're afraid to talk Christians....talk about LOL.

I'm sure being the king of rational, we'd have no problem having a sane conversation with you? The epitome of rational. ization that is!

HIM:Yeah, that's it. There is just no way I could keep up with your rational brilliance.

ME:I'm sorry to hear that. I could speak very slowly. Would that help?

ME:Tell me something...are these colleagues of yours, liars?
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2007/07/what_was_that_a.html#comments
On Abortion ...

"In medical practice, there are few surgical procedures given so little attention and so underrated in its potential hazards as abortion. It is a commonly held view that complications are inevitable."
-- Warren Hern, Abortionist

"[The abortionists] get to go inflict pain on someone for five minutes ...
-- Charlotte Taft, Former Clinic Administrator

"No one ever says 'Thank you' to an abortionist."
-- Unidentified Abortionist

"Every woman ... has a trauma at destroying a pregnancy ... This is a part of her own life. When she destroys a pregnancy she is destroying herself."
-- Dr. Julius Fogel, Psychiatrist/OB who has performed over 20,000 abortions

"Even now I feel a little peculiar about it because as a physician I was trained to conserve life, and here I am destroying it."
-- Unidentified Abortionist

"If the abortion is well done, we don't have to watch the baby die. So we inject a salt solution. The result is like putting salt on a slug, but we don't have to watch it."
-- Dr. Russell Sacco, M.D.

"... [abortion] is still the dark side of medicine."
-- Morris Wortman, Abortionist
Democrat and Chronicle, July 5. 1992

"I guess I never realized I would find [performing abortions] as unpleasant as I do. I really don't enjoy it at all. It's not a rewarding thing to do ... [patients] look at you as an evil person who is deliberately putting them through a painful procedure ... it's their whole attitude that bothers me. I feel like a simple thank you is in order, instead of 'Why are you doing this to me?'"
-- New York Abortionist
The New York Times Magazine, January 18. 1998

"[Doing abortions] can make you feel bad ... No matter how pro-choice you are, it makes you feel low."
-- New York Abortionist
The New York Times Magazine, January 18. 1998

"The abortion clinics never accept any responsibility for complications. They just say it was not their fault. The concern is not the patient at this time. The concern is with taking care of the doctor and keeping his reputation and the clinic's [reputation] clean."
-- Carol Everett, Former Clinic Director and Owner

"You know that there is something alive in there that you're killing."
-- Unidentified Abortionist

In Necessity and Sorrow, Magna Denes, New York: Basic Books. lnc., 1976
"The sensations of dismemberment flow through the forceps like an electric current."
-- Dr. Warren Hern, Abortionist
Associations of Planned Parenthood Physicians meeting, San Diego, October 26, 1978

"It's a nasty, dirty, yucky thing and I always come home angry."
-- David Zbaraz, Abortionist
Washington Post, March 3, 1980

"In some ways it is very boring, these abortions -- the same thing day after day. In fact the nurses are excited about complications because it's something different."
-- A Director of Nursing at an abortion facility
In Necessity and Sorrow, Magna Denes, New York: Basic Books. Inc.. 1976

"An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun. It is dangerous to your life and health. It may make you sterile so that when you want a child you cannot have it."
"Plan Your Children", Planned Parenthood pamphlet, 1962
"[The abortion procedure is] inherently negative. I don't think that anyone can say that abortion is right. It's a form of life ... This has to be killing ..."
-- New York Abortionist
Democrat and Chronicle, July 5, 1992

"[The governing force behind the abortion industry is] money. It's a very lucrative business. It is the largest unregulated industry in our nation."
-- Carol Everett, Former Clinic Director and Owner

HIM:No, but some are quoted out of context and others simply expressing their personal opinions, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't.

So?

ME:At least they aren't hiding behind phony names...you sure are outspoken for a coward...it's hard to treat a phantom with any respect...

Kick his BUTT MK!

Great post Valerie.

MK, I really expected his responses to be a bit better. He's a quack and a hack. I told him in my second e mail that he was in need of a straight jacket. His response? "Get help." Weak. Very weak! He just rambles mumbo jumbo.

MK, Jasper, and the rest of the emailin' crew,

I think we could learn alot from beket if we approach him in a different way, and chances are that he would most likely open up and in the very, very end, might even be open to the possibility of remotely thinking of giving up his hideous practice. Slamming him with facts and adding an insult or two with it just makes him more defensive, hence more determined to continue killing the little ones.

Think for a moment about Norma McCorvey, Bernard Nathanson, and others who have crossed the River of Discontent. For many of them it was charity, friendship, something in common that got them to say "Hmmmmn."

In my area, there is an incredible pro life activist who has befriended an abortionist. I have been asked to keep names and locations anonymous, which I will honor. For the past 10 years, yes, ten years this steadfast activist has had dinners with this doc, attended masses and adoration with him, and has brought him to rosary gatherings. Said activist continues to drive into town from an hour away every week to get together and talk with this MD. One can only imagine the words they share. I'm sure it'll be in a book someday. If there wasn't a friendship in place, I doubt this doc would have given the activist the time of day.

It's interesting to note that on this very blog there's a comraderie of sorts between both sides of the debate. Some of us are nasty (names withheld) while some of us act like the ladies and gentlemen that we are.

Beket is angry, no, snarling at pro-lifers. Like MK has stated, there's a spiritual dimension to this sort of demeanor that is not for the faint of heart. The root? I'll quote Fr. Pavone when he described the whole foundation on which the pro-choice platform is grounded: despair. Just reading the post in which the abortionists were quoted, one can see how accurate Fr. Pavone is.

So let's give Beket some hope to counter his despair. Find out what he likes. Is it espresso with a shot of Irish creme? Or watching the sunsets over the pacific? What's a good author he gets into? I don't know...just something to break the ice.

Then again, there are some choicers out there that will remain defiant to the end...their choice.

Good for you MK,

As you can see, he cannot debate you. You cornered him nicely, he immediately goes into attack mode to defend himself.

Carder,

Yes, I see your point. I will try a less confronting approach in the future. The fact that he is replying to pro-lifers may indicate this is weighing on his conscience (I hope, but I could be wrong)....Does the MD in your story above still do abortions?

Jasper,
The MD still does abortions. Why? He doesn't believe that the fetus possesses a soul.

Carder,

I had the same thoughts. I originally posted my stuff on Jill's and only sent it to him later. My understanding is that a priest has been talking to him for some time now.

Actually, I was hoping to goad him into coming on Jill's site.

I think I will try again and apologize for being so sarcastic. But I can't help feeling that I'm talking to SoMG, probably the only person in the world that I cannot find a thing to like about. That is my problem tho, not SoMG's...It's just that there is a difference between talking to misguided souls and demons themselves. You almost feel like it's hopeless.

You were right to chastise me, as I would have chastised myself (did actually). Bad Mary Kay.

I have emailed him again, and eaten crow sans condiments. My apology was sincere, and I hope Mr. Beket will join us here and continue the debate in a fair and open forum...

Mr. Beket,

I'm afraid we got off on the wrong foot yesterday, and I take full responsibility.
I was reacting to the articles you wrote for dailykos, and I realize that they were meant to be inflammatory. However, I don't even know you and had no right to just attack you personally. While I find abortion absolutely horrifying, I didn't even give you a chance to share your side. Just went in with guns blazing, shooting first, asking questions never.

Please forgive me.

May we start over?

I would truly love to debate on Jill's site...It's a pretty fair site (I have been to many pro-life sites) and there are a lot of pro-choice people on her site, all of whom we have built relationships with despite our differences of opinion.

Please join us. Your insights would be invaluable, and any "bashing" would be kept to a minimum as we police ourselves fairly well. I myself was called onto the carpet for my sarcastic words to you. And I deserved it!

Anyway, whatever you decide, please forgive my rudeness. You are a fellow human being, and deserve to be treated as such.

I do believe that satan is behind abortion and influences those who promote and condone it...but I should never have called you, personally, a demon.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my e-mails. Hope to hear from you again...

Mary Kay

Good point Carder. At first I wanted to feel him out. I wanted to slam him d/t what he does for a living. Get my own anger out. Perhaps I will also apologize. It would be nice if he would join us here.

okay, I've also apologized. I asked him to join us on the blog.

"Jasper,
The MD still does abortions. Why? He doesn't believe that the fetus possesses a soul."

Carder,
Thats too bad, I guess sometimes the soft approach doesn't work either, I thought about this and I believe "despair" is not always whats going on here. Sometimes evil has to be called out by it's true name, forcefully. If after 10 years this abortionist is still not willing to soften his heart, maybe a punch in his mouth will get him to respond. As Catholics it is important to be compassionate, but we can't lie down and succumb to evil either.

I have two blood aunts (one paternal, one maternal) we lost to this horrid disease and now my Mom has been diagnosed. My aunts were the active, involved, independent type, enjoying new friends and hobbies even after widowhood.

This and Mom's diagnosis terrify me for my sister and I (ages 47 and 51 respectively). Mom is home with a part time caregiver and now my sister who is on Family Medical Leave due to my Dad's terminal condition. That cannot continue for long before we will need to provide dementia 24/7 professional care.

On top of all this we are losing my Dad to prostate cancer that metastisized to his spine and dura mater after 13 years of hormonal treatment and being told as recently as 4/18/07 by the urologist at Rush that Dad's PSA's were normal and all was fine. As I pointed out to the doctor before the April visit, you could look at my Dad's weight loss and know that all was not okay.

Anyway, I am a Daddy's girl even at 51 and I could write an article if not a book about the medical system and hospice care for the elderly cancer patient. If one more young resident or doctor told me "Well, he IS 89 afterall...."

I finally lost it with one of Rush's excellent nurses in the ER and she was so sympathetic and empathetic having just lost her dad. I screamed out, "He is not an expired carton of milk. Get in there and help him."

But once they judge you are dying, the docs disappear and only the nurses and aides are around. Rush's nurses deserve all the accolades they have won. They were so good to my Dad and with one exception all seemed really smart and really caring.

Hospice is getting to be another story. We have already had to insist they replace one Certified Nursing Asst. Thank God that Dad's hard work and frugality allow us to provide private duty nurse's aides who are terrific with Dad.

Hospice also seems to think that any show of spirit by my Daddy is "agitation" that needs to medicated away into sleep. I have thrown a few temper bouts about the overuse of Ativan and what I perceive to be snowing him under rather than true concern for his condition.

Well enough of our woes. I am haunted by what we should of, could of, would of done and retrace all the signs I should have seen and steps I should have taken. Your article on Alzheimers was the one bit of bright news I have had in a long time. The idea of descending into that darkness or saddling my poor sister with my care is more than I can bear to think of. It would be wonderful to believe they were actually that close.

BC,

Thank you for posting your story. You show much determination in terms of getting the best for daddy. I hope it works out for everyone involved.

Jasper,

I had digested Fr. Pavone's words and reflected for some time why he would use the word "despair" to describe the root of pro-choice-ism. I'm not speaking for him, but I think I've arrived at some sort of understanding. The rest of you can give me better insights I suppose.

We've heard it said "Where there's life, there's hope." To despair, then, is to be without hope, and abortion is certainly not life-giving on many levels.

Then I thought of the spiritual dimension of despair. Who in the spiritual realm despairs? My thoughts went immediately to the children of Fatima when Our Lady showed them the vision of hell. Those reprobate souls were forever denied the vision of God, and in the accounts of other saints, they fill their existence by blaspheming God, always in a state of despair. When I hear accounts of how angry, nasty, and blasphemous the pro-choice camp can be, I can't help but wonder if hell hasn't already started for these guys.

A simplistic explanation, to be sure, but that's all I could fit in my busy brain these days.

Hi Carder,

After thinking and praying about this even more, I agree with you -thanks

jasper, I have received several civil e-mails from him today. Unfortunately, he is standing his ground on abortion, and he makes no apologies. See post under the 'Busted MI Abortionist.'