I know this doesn't relate but I wanted to inform everyone about this. My mom works for a youth group in MN. Her group is currently on a mission trip in northern MN. I called her last night to tell her about the bridge because I was pretty sure no one would have heard about it where they were. they weren't near radios or TV's. They ended up finding a TV and watching the news and everyone got pretty emotional. Later that evening one of the youth received a phone call from her mother. Her mother told her that her aunt, who works in Minneapolis and takes that highway to work everyday is missing. Please keep this person in your thoughts. If I find anything out about this girls aunt I will let you know.

Heather4life- there was no earthquake and it wasn't caused by the construction. From what I have heard, the bridge was poorly designed and just collapsed. This whole situation just makes me so sad.

This is what I love about music, people can interpret the lyrics and songs any way they like.

JM,

my prayers are with that person....

...as far as the song, since when does anybody have to check with the band when interpretings there songs?

Jasper,
I guess the rules are different in Canada? I just want to know what they mean if they don't mean that 3 generations ago, people had to work for what they wanted and appreciated what they got. Now the young people have everything yet treasure nothing.

We've been harping on the emptiness much of this generation displays for months. It's this very emptiness that leads to 45 million abortions. It's the sense that NOTHING is sacred and EVERYTHING is dispensible...and I don't know why.

JM,

I'll be praying for them...PLEASE let us know when you hear anything...

A lot of you guys have this notion that the Catholic Church believes that everyone that doesn't belong, believe and adhere to her teachings are condemned to hell...

I thought you might enjoy this letter written by
Ryan T Anderson in a criticism of Amnesty Internationals bid to end laws that inhibit acess to worldwide abortion...

The developed teaching of the Catholic Church on religious liberty notes that man of his very nature is a religious creature with the duty—and right—to seek out the truth and (subject to certain limitations of a moral, not a theological, nature) to be guided by the truth as he best understands it. Even if the truth is grasped imperfectly or inchoately, the religious act is always aimed at a genuine good—namely, the worship of God—even if the believer’s knowledge of that good is severely defective (as is the polytheist’s).

That is, so long as they are sincere, even imperfect religious acts are indeed religious acts. Subject to the requirements of public order, including public morality—requirements that justify forbidding human sacrifice, temple prostitution, and other intrinsically evil acts—man has a right to perform them, and this right should be respected and protected by civil law.

Because religious acts are acts of conscience seeking and assenting to truth, they must also be free of coercion. According to the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration on Religious Freedom, Dignitatis Humanae, “the exercise of religion, of its very nature, consists before all else in those internal, voluntary and free acts whereby man sets the course of his life directly toward God. No merely human power can either command or prohibit acts of this kind.” (Of course, it goes without saying that it would be wrong for a former polytheist who has been persuaded of the truth of Judaism or Christianity to continue engaging in polytheistic worship. That violation of the First Commandment is not an exercise of the right to religious liberty but an abuse of it.)

The Church does not say, as Miller claims she does, “that certain conduct is wrong but that people have a right to do it.” Rather, the Church teaches that there is much that is good and to be protected in other religions. Speaking specifically of Hinduism and Buddhism (the Church spoke even more favorably toward Islam and, above all, Judaism), the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration on Non-Christian Religions, Nostra Aetate, declared: “The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.” Religious liberty is protected even for the polytheist so that he, too, may abide by the ray of Truth he has gleaned, and in the hope that his continued free pursuit of God will lead him to the fullness of Truth.

Of course, religious liberty properly understood does not protect human sacrifice—whether fetal or postnatal—offered to God or the gods. This scenario seems most parallel to the Amnesty International abortion situation. The right of religious freedom protects religious goods (even imperfect worship offered by polytheists) but is not a right to do what is morally wrong (for example, practice prenatal or postnatal homicide).

You can read more here:

http://www.counselingkevin.com/2007/08/the-right-to-be.html

I've been thinking more about this song.

How can the band deny it appears to lament shrinking family sizes in its song?

Furthermore, the band makes abortion a bad thing, basically used by sluts who sleep around.

And the aborting mom in the song has dreams of a table with children around it, which the song makes sound like a good thing. And this is actually Biblical, a sign of being blessed, from Psalm 128:

1-2 All you who fear God, how blessed you are! how happily you walk on his smooth straight road! You worked hard and deserve all you've got coming. Enjoy the blessing! Revel in the goodness!

3-4 Your wife will bear children as a vine bears grapes, your household lush as a vineyard, The children around your table as fresh and promising as young olive shoots. Stand in awe of God's Yes. Oh, how he blesses the one who fears God!

I see it as a "the times, they are a-changing" type of statement, not necessarily lamenting the fact that the girl has had an abortion, but that her great grandmother had a stable enough life to be able to have and feed 14 children, and this girl can barely feed herself let alone any children.

I see how it can be a rallying point for pro lifers, though. And I think the artists should have been able to have seen this coming, too.

I don't think it was a pro-life song at all. Twenty seconds out of three minutes was spent about abortion. Hardley the focus of the song.

I think it was more of a lament that the life and times of people are changing, from more simple farmland lifestlye (where families needed lots of kids to help do chores around the home since they had so much space) up to a much more complicated modern lifestyle (where women have less space, fewer children, and are making careers for themselves).

I understand why the band wrote an angry letter. If someone had interpreted my work in the wrong way, I would have been pissed too.

I also think the segement about abortion not completely about abortion. It's more of the girl's longing to go back in time to her roots, to a simpler farm life surrounded with family.

I would agree with the significance of the song, if it had continued to talk about that girl who had an abortion. But it is definitely not what the song is *about*. However, I don't think that they were taking a side on the abortion argument at all. They were simply saying that she *had* those dreams, not that she probably did because bad-bad-bad she had an abortion.

Aside from that...

Oh. My. God. I wish more of you spoke French so that you could appreciate the quebecois accents as much as I did. Since I learned French in France, I have heard so many people imitate the accent... and hearing this song... priceless. "Ton arrière-arrière grand-père"... teeheehee. No offense to any Quebecois! Je vous aime tous!

criticism of Amnesty Internationals bid to end laws that inhibit acess to worldwide abortion

Forgive me if this has been covered on this site elsewhere, but AI is NOT bidding to 'end laws that inhibit access to abortion'. They are defining pregnancy, and lack of access to abortion, as TORTURE.

Big difference.

Hi leah,

when I saw the photo of the band, I just had to laugh a little. It has become a common tradition among quebequois to deride anything English in Canada. We are referred to as: 'tete corré' [translated as 'square-head']. The derivation came about because poor labourers of the 19th century work toques in the cold winter ... and these were all French speakers. The aristocratic and wealthy business owners were all English and wore fashionable (for that day) top-hats. The shadows of these hats gave a distinctly square appearance ... hence, 'square-head'.

It was hilarious to see every male member of the band sporting the infamous top-hat. [I doubt you had heard of this, but your ex may have.]

MK, I saw this, and truly felt the need to comment.

"It's the sense that NOTHING is sacred and EVERYTHING is dispensible...and I don't know why."

From my own personal experience, that isnt true in the slightest. In general, there are obvious political divides between generations and socio-economic groups. But to say a whole generation holds absolutely NOTHING to be sacred, or that we take advantage of everything/dont mind tossing everything away is a bit harsh dont you think? There are people like that in every generation.

Hi Dan,

Congratulations - you made some very profound observations. Must think about this a bit!

Initial effort - flesh out these phrases a bit - 'NOTHING is sacred' becomes 'NOTHING has value'. And 'EVERYTHING is dispensable' becomes IMO 'everything having value dies ... the end!'.

It seems that there is a need for significance, otherwise vanity .... as in 'all is vanity' fills the void, or tries to.

MK: We've been harping on the emptiness much of this generation displays for months. It's this very emptiness that leads to 45 million abortions. It's the sense that NOTHING is sacred and EVERYTHING is dispensible...and I don't know why.

MK, I think the "why" is because there are always people who feel that way, regardless of what century or millenium we are talking about.

There were those among the ancient egyptians who looked around in dismay at society, at the younger generation, etc.

Doug

Jill: How can the band deny it appears to lament shrinking family sizes in its song?

Many Quebecois lament the declining birth rates, feeling that the "French" influence in Canada is declining, that they're in danger of losing their culture, etc.

Doug

Dan,

We are living in a time where the things that were once considered sacred are now considered passe`...
Marriage-the definition of what marriage is, is being changed.
Family-50% of marriages end in divorce. What does that do to a society?
Religion-is considered something neanderthals used to adhere to, but "everyone" knows it's just a myth.
Life-has become expendable and a commodity. Between abortion, embryonic stem cell research, IVF and embryo disposal, and euthanasia we no longer hold life sacred at either end...

Money, personal autonomy, sexual license, and materialism are the things your generation seems to consider sacred. Life is disposable, faith is disposable, partners are disposable, families are disposable...

Harsh? I don't think I was harsh enough. Listening to you guys sometimes gives me the chills. And whether or not they meant to, I think this band spelled it out perfectly...

Perhaps a definition of sacred is called for. And perhaps it's antonyms are even more important...

sacred
adj

Definition: holy, blessed

Antonyms: cursed, irreligious, lay, profane, secular, ungodly, unholy, unsacred

adj

Definition: protected

Antonyms: cursed, open, unconsecrated, unprotected, vulnerable

@MK: I don't think its fair to blame all of society's ills on my generation. Society has been declining for decades, in fact, the ones who ought to be the blame are the self-absorbed baby-boomer generation.

So don't go blaming the new generations for things that started in yours. I'm not saying you in particular, but in general, it's your generation that has screwed everything up.

Rae,

You'll get no arguments from me...months ago I posted an apology to your generation. We have basically left you guys with no directions...no norms, to follow.

My husband and I were discussing when the worst time (morally speaking) was in history. I said now and he said during Hitler. I said I thought that now was just an extension of the 30's and 40's. I consider it all one time period. So many of our "moral" problems began back then. While I believe that there have always been pockets of immorality throughout history, never before have the things that hold society together been so attacked in such a general way.

Has there always been divorce? Of course, but never has it been accepted as a viable option, with no social stigma attached, throughout the entire world. Abortion? Well, you know how I feel about that, and while it has always been with us, it has never been sanctioned by virtually all governments in the known world. Human experimentation? Euthanasia? How can we be surprised at the outlook your generation has, when we have taken away all the things that our grandparents held sacred.

I think it's a miracle that you haven't ALL jumped off bridges in despair. This is why Bethany and Jill and Val and yes, even Jaspser, and I are fighting so hard. We're not just trying to save a few babies...we're trying to give your generation hope. The question is, why do you fight us so hard?

I agree....we are trying to undo the damage that has been done over these many decades of time.

I would just like to say--I enjoyed this song so much it is now on my iPod. It is my first Qubecoise song (yeah... "Quebecoise"... French grammatical agreements--sue me), and I am very happy.

Leah, my daughter spent a semester in France and was and is also enthralled by their linguistic differences. She was also on Cloud 9 after finally getting their r's right.

@MK: I honestly think it's terribly condescending that you all feel that our generation is without hope. My generation is still young, and things could still change. Yes, your generation was pretty much useless and pretty much screwed over the future generations for decades, but I really wouldn't completely count us out, we're not really that pathetic. :)

Rae,
I don't think ALL of you are without hope. But I do think that your generation doesn't have much to hope for...I have four children in "your generation" and I see what they are up against. I you want to have a pissing contest between which of our genenrations is more screwed up, I think it would be close.

I never said that you were pathetic, just that you have been handed a world fairly bereft of morals and that it will be an uphill climb if you want to change this. I don't see it changing yet, but I certainly haven't "given up"...

My exact words were: young people have everything yet treasure nothing.
We've been harping on the emptiness much of this generation displays for months. It's this very emptiness that leads to 45 million abortions. It's the sense that NOTHING is sacred and EVERYTHING is dispensible...and I don't know why.

The word pathetic isn't even in there. I believe I used the word empty.
Neither is the word ALL. I believe I used the word "much"...

You tell me Rae. What is sacred to you, what do you "treasure"? What is so important that you couldn't replace it if it stopped being useful?

@Rae, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Did you ever stop to think that she may be jealous of you? Pretty, smart, artistic? That's a lethal combo. I know it hurts. I have seen many of my "friends" come and go. Sometimes people just outgrow each other. You'll move on for the better. It's her loss!